Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here,
Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of
Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.
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Speaker 2: But enough with that, let's get to the show. Good morning, everybody,
Speaker 2: Happy Thursday. We have an amazing show for everybody today.
Speaker 2: We've got the Big Debate special. The lights looked.
Speaker 3: At that monitor. We got so much going on here?
Speaker 3: What do we have today?
Speaker 4: Indeed, we do lots to get into you this morning.
Speaker 1: We are focusing one on the Big Debate from last
Speaker 1: night and also on the Trump Tucker interviews. So we're
Speaker 1: going to have all the highlights soccer and I's winners
Speaker 1: and losers. We're going to give you the highlights also
Speaker 1: from that Tucker Trump interview. Do we think that he
Speaker 1: made the right call by skipping the debate. We're going
Speaker 1: to bring Emily and Kyle in. I'm sure they're going
Speaker 1: to mix it up on some various things as well.
Speaker 1: And give their takes on how all of this broke down,
Speaker 1: so it should be a lot of fun. Before we
Speaker 1: jump right into it, though, we want to say thank
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Speaker 1: All right, With all of that being said, let's get
Speaker 1: to the big debate. Last night, we had eight Republic
Speaker 1: contenders on the stage and one very notable absence, which was,
Speaker 1: of course, former President Trump decided to do an interview
Speaker 1: with Tucker Carlson that was released on x We'll get
Speaker 1: to that in a bit, but for now, let's just
Speaker 1: focus on what happened at the Republican debate. First of all,
Speaker 1: let's put this up on the screen.
Speaker 4: This is just a.
Speaker 1: Graphic showing you total talk time, so you can see
Speaker 1: who kind of dominated the night. Coming in first. I
Speaker 1: was actually a little bit surprised by this. Mike Pence,
Speaker 1: the former Vice president, of course, came in first in
Speaker 1: terms of talk time at twelve minutes and twenty six seconds.
Speaker 1: It's also amazing how little that actually is.
Speaker 4: Funny thing about it.
Speaker 1: But anyway, Vivek Ramaswami, who had I think, by anyone's measure,
Speaker 1: a huge night last night, we'll talk more about that.
Speaker 1: He came in second at eleven minutes and thirty eight seconds,
Speaker 1: just edging out former New Jersey Governor Chris Christy at
Speaker 1: eleven minutes and thirty seven seconds. Ron DeSantis was next
Speaker 1: ten minutes and one second, Nikki Haley at just over
Speaker 1: eight minutes, Tim Scott at roughly eight minutes, Doug burgham
Speaker 1: seven minutes, and fifty seconds, Doug showing up in spite
Speaker 1: of Achilles terror.
Speaker 4: I think it was he suffered an injury actually.
Speaker 1: Playing pickup basketball the same day as the debate, and
Speaker 1: then former Arkansas Governor Asa Hutchinson coming in last in
Speaker 1: terms of debate talk time at seven minutes.
Speaker 4: And twenty four seconds.
Speaker 1: But in a lot of ways, you know, the big
Speaker 1: story of the night, which we, I guess have to
Speaker 1: pat ourselves on the back for predicting ahead of time,
Speaker 1: was vivig Ramaswami.
Speaker 4: He took lots of incoming.
Speaker 1: I was surprised how much he was the center of
Speaker 1: attacks from Mike Pence.
Speaker 4: Seemed to just viscerally despise him.
Speaker 1: It sort of reminded me of the way that Amy
Speaker 1: Klobashar in twenty twenty just viscerally despised Pete Bootages. There
Speaker 1: was a similar energy there. But it wasn't just him.
Speaker 1: Chris Christie came after him. There were some really spicy
Speaker 1: exchanges between himself and Nikki Haley. And I think just
Speaker 1: by being the center of attention and also being quite
Speaker 1: aggressive and you know, really showing himself as a fighter, etcetera, etcetera,
Speaker 1: I think he did himself a lot of good. We'll
Speaker 1: get into more specifically about that, but to give you
Speaker 1: a taste of some of the attacks that were coming
Speaker 1: his way and how he parried them. Let's take a
Speaker 1: listen to This was one of their I think the
Speaker 1: earliest attack on him. This was coming from former Vice
Speaker 1: President Mike Pence.
Speaker 4: Take a listen.
Speaker 5: Balanced budgets and cut taxes when I was governor. I mean, look,
Speaker 5: Joe Biden has weakened this country at home and abroad.
Speaker 5: Now is not the time for on the job training.
Speaker 5: We don't need to bring in a rookie, we don't
Speaker 5: need to bring in people without experience.
Speaker 4: So yeah, what do you think of that?
Speaker 6: Zara?
Speaker 1: I mean, it was surprising how much he was the
Speaker 1: center of everyone's attacks and Ron de Santis really didn't
Speaker 1: take incoming from anyone.
Speaker 2: Actually, preview for everybody who's watching tonight, I mean, we
Speaker 2: are today we are going to just be talking about
Speaker 2: the vike Ramaswami because they were the ones who couldn't
Speaker 2: stop talking about him. It's just amazing. It was a
Speaker 2: hit from Mike Pence, it was a hit from Nicki Haley,
Speaker 2: it was a hit from Ron De Santis. A little bit,
Speaker 2: I guess whenever it came on some questions, but all
Speaker 2: across the stage with Chris Christy, it was obvious that
Speaker 2: they viscerally hated him. I think that they really got
Speaker 2: on to their skin with one particular moment very on
Speaker 2: early on, when he said quote, I'm the only person
Speaker 2: on the stage that's not bought and paid for.
Speaker 3: They got very upset.
Speaker 2: That's when Christy called him a chat gpt and landed one.
Speaker 3: Of his first blows.
Speaker 2: But really where Vivik stood out to me is I
Speaker 2: wasn't just looking in terms of the speaking time, which
Speaker 2: is a huge win.
Speaker 3: I wasn't even just.
Speaker 2: Looking at the fact that he's outpulling all these established
Speaker 2: politicians and then they're all attacking and making him the
Speaker 2: complete center of attention. It was also how he was
Speaker 2: out foxing them on Trump, because let's be honest, this
Speaker 2: was a race really for number two. And on the
Speaker 2: Trump question, it's obvious that he was the one most
Speaker 2: vociferously defending Trump. That is going to get him brownie
Speaker 2: points with Trump. It's going to get brownie points with
Speaker 2: the Magabase, and it's especially going to be allow him
Speaker 2: to help consolidate at least I think of solid number
Speaker 2: two position, which is coming to hear. We have some
Speaker 2: examples of that on the Trump question, both Ramaswami in
Speaker 2: terms of his defense, but also just give you a
Speaker 2: taste of how he did kind of stand out from
Speaker 2: the rest of the crowd on this Trump question when
Speaker 2: Chris Christy and others were departing from that concer.
Speaker 3: Let's take a listen.
Speaker 7: If former President Trump is convicted in a court of law,
Speaker 7: would you still support him as your party's choice. Please
Speaker 7: raise your hand if.
Speaker 8: You would, whether or not you believe that the criminal
Speaker 8: charges are right or wrong. The conduct is beneath the
Speaker 8: office of president of the United States, and and you
Speaker 8: know this is the great thing about this country. Booing
Speaker 8: is allowed, but it doesn't change the truth. It doesn't
Speaker 8: change the truth.
Speaker 2: That was an important moment. Ramasan was the first person
Speaker 2: to put his hand up. There was also an exchange
Speaker 2: that happened there where Viviik was attacking Christy on his
Speaker 2: support for Trump, kept calling him an MSNBC contributor, which
Speaker 2: I think was a pretty potent blow for a lot
Speaker 2: of people in the GA audience. I noticed it not
Speaker 2: only in terms of the defense there, but he has
Speaker 2: the line, which he said here on the show, president
Speaker 2: Trump was the.
Speaker 3: Best president of the twenty first century.
Speaker 9: I mean, I haven't been that many presidents in the
Speaker 9: twenty first century, but it's a good line.
Speaker 10: I think.
Speaker 2: Nonetheless, really what I took away from it is like
Speaker 2: he was one of those where he's not really running
Speaker 2: against Trump. He was effectively was trying to run against
Speaker 2: everybody else on the stage by kind of moving past
Speaker 2: them and putting him in a pretty solid position.
Speaker 3: And I think that's.
Speaker 2: Really where he was both able to drive everybody crazy,
Speaker 2: become the center of attention, and then also capture I'm
Speaker 2: not going to say that he's going to bring MAGA
Speaker 2: people over to him, but what we have critically seen
Speaker 2: is that even those who don't support Trump as their
Speaker 2: first choice, most Republicans, they like Trump. The vast majority
Speaker 2: do have a deep amount of affection for him. Those
Speaker 2: who don't they're Christie people, but that's already been consolidated.
Speaker 3: That's what four or five percent of the overall base.
Speaker 4: So depending on the state, but yeah, yeah, you're.
Speaker 2: Right, depending on the straight but I mean, overall, I
Speaker 2: think it was that that was a good glimpse into
Speaker 2: both how he was being attacked, and also how he
Speaker 2: was able to make sure that he was always really
Speaker 2: on the side of Trump, of maga, of that agenda,
Speaker 2: and he's you know, he's been cultivating as well a
Speaker 2: lot of the online maga people out there. It's interesting,
Speaker 2: you know, the people who are the most defensive of
Speaker 2: Trump all had nothing but good things to say about Ramaswami.
Speaker 3: I think it's because of exactly like moments like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, throughout the night, Chris Christie really served
Speaker 1: as the heel. Yes, from the moment he walked down
Speaker 1: on the stage he got booted. Asa Hutchinson, who also
Speaker 1: second to Christy, has been the most directly critical of Trump.
Speaker 1: I would say he also had a smattering of booths
Speaker 1: to the extent that, you know, people were really aware
Speaker 1: of who he is and what he's been saying. But
Speaker 1: Chris Christie really leaned into that role. You know, I
Speaker 1: didn't think normally, I think Chris Christie's very talented debater.
Speaker 1: I thought it was pretty off last night. He had
Speaker 1: a couple of moments, but by and large, he seemed
Speaker 1: off his game, a little unsteady on his feet, a
Speaker 1: little bit hesitant or nervous, so not a great night
Speaker 1: for him, not that I expected. Even if he did
Speaker 1: really mount and effective of like you know, going after
Speaker 1: vi Vake or going after Ronda Santas or going after Trump,
Speaker 1: I just didn't have a lot of confidence that it
Speaker 1: would matter with a Republican primary base where he already
Speaker 1: has the lowest favorability. So to the extent that he
Speaker 1: was going after Vivike, it probably only really serve Avic
Speaker 1: because he's so I hated by so much of the
Speaker 1: audience that was in the room. So he really served
Speaker 1: in the role of the heel. Ronda Santis will talk
Speaker 1: a bit more about him, but you know, when you
Speaker 1: can trust his strategy with the vag strategy vi Vic
Speaker 1: either out of savviness or because he wasn't really from
Speaker 1: the beginning playing to be the presidential nominee, but more
Speaker 1: to elevate his profile, potentially end up in a cabinet role,
Speaker 1: potentially get a media gig or whatever. Vivek has never
Speaker 1: been trying to supplant Trump. He's always been trying to
Speaker 1: position himself as like the top alternative DeSantis at this point,
Speaker 1: I think you can say deluded himself into thinking that
Speaker 1: he really could come for Donald Trump and supplant him
Speaker 1: as the number one, and I don't think that's going
Speaker 1: to work out. I mean, I think that for all
Speaker 1: of these you know, gentlemen and Nikki Haley that were
Speaker 1: on the stage last night, the best they can hope
Speaker 1: for is be the top alternative in case something happens
Speaker 1: with Trump that pushes him out of the race or
Speaker 1: you know, really land some sort of a political blow
Speaker 1: on him where he falls precipitously in a way that
Speaker 1: we have literally never seen before since he's been on
Speaker 1: the national stage in twenty fifteen. So I think I
Speaker 1: think DeSantis's strategy didn't work out that well for him
Speaker 1: last night, even though he had a solid debaper, like,
Speaker 1: he didn't.
Speaker 4: Do anything fine wrong, you did fine.
Speaker 1: But the fact that you had Vivek taking up so
Speaker 1: much of the oxygen, absorbing so many of the fights
Speaker 1: and pairying, you know, really mixing it up and you know,
Speaker 1: pairing well with everybody else, I think it, you know it.
Speaker 1: I think it actually ends up being a bad night
Speaker 1: for Ron DeSantis, even though he handled himself on the
Speaker 1: you know, on the sort of like superficial level perfectly.
Speaker 4: Fine.
Speaker 2: We're going to talk more about this in the winners
Speaker 2: and losers. Yeah, I would say I think he did fine.
Speaker 2: I think it kind of floated above of the morass.
Speaker 2: He took some he had some decent enough moments, and
Speaker 2: it's clear the moderators were giving him really good softballs.
Speaker 2: He got the most stupid fastball softball I've ever seen
Speaker 2: in my life at the top where they were like,
Speaker 2: why is Richmond north of Richmond popular governor?
Speaker 10: I'm like, are you kidding?
Speaker 4: The opening question was so atrocious. Yeah, it was horrible, horriblerible.
Speaker 1: It s took eighteen minutes to even get to the
Speaker 1: first bringing questions.
Speaker 2: There's got so many things I could say about the
Speaker 2: foxt question, which I think was so bad throughout the
Speaker 2: entire night, but let's put that aside. Yeah, one moment
Speaker 2: I did appreciate, and what I loved was the abortion
Speaker 2: section because there was an actual debate, there was actual
Speaker 2: disagreement Mike Pence versus Nikki Haley on the prospect of
Speaker 2: abortion and the national abortion ban, multiple of the candidates
Speaker 2: also weighing in. We cut a little bit of that
Speaker 2: section because it's just so politically important to how these
Speaker 2: candidates are gonna do, are are going to like use
Speaker 2: this issue in the twenty twenty four election, whether they're
Speaker 2: stomping for Trump or whether they are the nominees themselves.
Speaker 3: Let's take a listen.
Speaker 5: Honest with you, Nikki, you're my friend. But consensus is
Speaker 5: the opposite of leadership. When the Supreme Court returned this
Speaker 5: question to the American people, they didn't just send it
Speaker 5: to the states only. It's not a state's only issue.
Speaker 5: It's a moral issue.
Speaker 11: So first of all, I will say it is in
Speaker 11: the hands of the people, and that's where it should be.
Speaker 11: But well, when you're talking about a federal ban, be
Speaker 11: honest with the American people. We haven't had forty five
Speaker 11: pro life senators in over one hundred years. So no
Speaker 11: Republican president can ban abortions anymore than a Democrat president
Speaker 11: can ban all those states. Wells, don't make women feel
Speaker 11: like they have to decide on this issue when you
Speaker 11: know we don't have sixty Senate votes in the House.
Speaker 5: Seventy percent of the American people support legislation, but abortion.
Speaker 3: Experiencing pack, Well, there you go.
Speaker 2: That's what it all came down to. And I was
Speaker 2: very rhetorically interesting. I was watching this very close. Yeah,
Speaker 2: every single one of them had nothing to say about
Speaker 2: the bands, and all of them had a lot to
Speaker 2: say about late term abortion. Late term abortion pivot. That
Speaker 2: something that Trump has been doing a lot himself. But
Speaker 2: I did think it was an interesting question around political realism.
Speaker 2: So he had Tim Scott says, I fight on the
Speaker 2: side of life. I would sign a fifteen week ban.
Speaker 2: Ron DeSantis totally miffed the question on six weeks. He
Speaker 2: refused to commit himself.
Speaker 1: He looked very pronswer the same band that he signed
Speaker 1: in the state of Florida.
Speaker 2: He did not say that he would sign that. On
Speaker 2: a national level. That drew a little bit of the
Speaker 2: ire of Mike Pence. But Haley was the first one
Speaker 2: critically who actually laid out the position around late term abortion.
Speaker 2: And she also was talking about, you know, some of
Speaker 2: the kookier stuff out there about criminal imprisoning women or
Speaker 2: whatever for abortions. I thought it was actually one of
Speaker 2: the stronger moments for her. And we'll get into that
Speaker 2: into the winners and loser section, but the fight itself
Speaker 2: is so critically important for how these candidates are thinking
Speaker 2: about this issue. Yeah, and also about Pence as long
Speaker 2: as he's on the debate stays abortion is going to
Speaker 2: be the cudgel that he uses to hit every single
Speaker 2: other person on there, both because he really believes it
Speaker 2: and because that's where a lot of his evangelical support comes.
Speaker 4: You know, I thought Nikki Haley.
Speaker 1: I was surprised, actually, because she tends to be one
Speaker 1: who really parts and gives the politician answers, not just
Speaker 1: on abortion, also on Ukraine. There are a few places where,
Speaker 1: even though it's possible that she's actually getting crosswise of
Speaker 1: certainly some portions of the GOP base with her answers,
Speaker 1: she was very direct, she wasn't afraid to mix it up,
Speaker 1: and frankly, I was surprised. She really exceeded my expectations.
Speaker 1: And you know, she stands out as the only woman
Speaker 1: on the stage as well. Mike Pence, even though they're
Speaker 1: going at each other in this exchange, I actually think
Speaker 1: they both did themselves some favors here because Mike Pence
Speaker 1: very clearly and very directly wanted to wear that mantle
Speaker 1: of I will be the most committed pro life candidate,
Speaker 1: most committed pro life president, and for the part of
Speaker 1: the Republican base for whom that is the number one
Speaker 1: issue I think they'd have to come away feeling like
Speaker 1: Mike Pence was their guy.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 1: Overall, Pence obviously has issues with the Republican base, given
Speaker 1: they still majority of them still by the stop the
Speaker 1: steal stuff. Many of them think he should have, you know,
Speaker 1: done whatever Trump wanted him to do on January.
Speaker 4: Sixth, et cetera.
Speaker 1: But I will say he stood up there with a
Speaker 1: lot of confident. He ended up dominating in terms of
Speaker 1: coming in first in terms of the talk time. So
Speaker 1: you know, I thought he did fine up there last
Speaker 1: night and was clear about where he stands. And I
Speaker 1: don't think that Mike Pence is for every GOP voters,
Speaker 1: but he probably solidified the group that was already inclined
Speaker 1: towards him and lignes up with his ideological view. He
Speaker 1: very much held down that like traditional Reagan, pro life
Speaker 1: conservative lane, almost like a throwback kind of a candidate.
Speaker 1: He really, I think, sort of like quartered that market
Speaker 1: in terms of stage. And that's to the detriment of
Speaker 1: like a Tim Scott, who we haven't even talked about yet,
Speaker 1: who very much fits that same model ideologically. And it's
Speaker 1: not like Tim Scott was like a disaster.
Speaker 3: He was just kind of he was fine.
Speaker 1: He was fine, but because you had another candidate up
Speaker 1: there who occupied the space more fully and was more
Speaker 1: forceful and was willing to get into these fights and tussles,
Speaker 1: et cetera. We predicted ahead of time. Debates are not
Speaker 1: really the best forum for Tim Scott his whole political personalities,
Speaker 1: just being like, you know, this affable guy and people
Speaker 1: who work with them like him, and donors like him
Speaker 1: and whatever. But when you're talking about trying to mix
Speaker 1: it up and give those vibes that the Republican base
Speaker 1: are in love with, that, I think Vaveik really cornered
Speaker 1: the market on the vibes last night.
Speaker 4: It just wasn't the form for Tim Scott.
Speaker 3: I agree with you. I think that in terms of
Speaker 3: that Lane Pence had the best.
Speaker 2: Clearly the donors were loving him from color from inside
Speaker 2: the room. Was that a lot of the donors that
Speaker 2: you can hear any of the shouts you can hear
Speaker 2: on TV absent like a really cookoff in this one
Speaker 2: is the GOP gives its big Republican donors like the
Speaker 2: top seats. That's part of the reason why I remember
Speaker 2: Trump was getting booed at the twenty fifteen debates, even
Speaker 2: though the base was absolutely loving it. So some of
Speaker 2: Pence's big moments came from a lot of the donor
Speaker 2: support in the room. And I actually expect him to
Speaker 2: get a second look from some of the billionaire class
Speaker 2: people like Larry Ellison, who are backing Tim Scott after
Speaker 2: Tim Scott's performance. It really wasn't that good. Scott's got
Speaker 2: a very good record with a lot of the billionaire
Speaker 2: donors who have basically been frontloading a lot of his
Speaker 2: campaign and of his super pack. I expect Pence to
Speaker 2: and I wouldn't say corner the market, but Tim Scott
Speaker 2: he just didn't have a good night. He didn't have
Speaker 2: the pop that I think he needed to. Yeah, all
Speaker 2: of this is probably a good segue into our Winners
Speaker 2: and losers.
Speaker 3: You well, I have two.
Speaker 1: More thoughts that I want to let before we jump
Speaker 1: into open ours losers. Just thinking sort of more macro
Speaker 1: about the debate. A couple things that I noted. First
Speaker 1: of all, some of the ideological divides in the current
Speaker 1: GOP were on display. We're going to show you a
Speaker 1: little bit of Ukraine in a minute. We just showed
Speaker 1: you abortion. Obviously you're trying to figure out how to
Speaker 1: negotiate this issue which has become politically devastating for the party.
Speaker 4: An area where you didn't hear.
Speaker 1: Any of the potential new tension within the party was
Speaker 1: on economics. I mean, the opening question was really the
Speaker 1: only one that actually focused on economics. They framed it
Speaker 1: more around like Biden and inflation, and every single candidate
Speaker 1: who took the question sounded like Paul Ryan. They're all
Speaker 1: like railing about the debt and arguing about who built
Speaker 1: up the debt more, and arguing about who's more committed.
Speaker 4: To fiscal austerity.
Speaker 1: There were no questions about, all right, who's going to
Speaker 1: preserve entitlements, who's going to cut entitlements, et cetera. So
Speaker 1: there was none of that put Henschel disagreement on economics
Speaker 1: that was really on display. And in fact, economics were
Speaker 1: not that much of a focus of the night whatsoever.
Speaker 1: It's not that it wasn't mentioned at all, but it
Speaker 1: wasn't that much of a focus. Yes, the other thing
Speaker 1: that I really noted Sager is Rond de Santis and
Speaker 1: viag Ramaswami both when they launched their campaign, they were
Speaker 1: all in on anti wokeness they really thought that was
Speaker 1: the space to occupy. Rond de Santis, Florida's Where Wokeness
Speaker 1: Goes to Die vag basically launches this presidential campaign and
Speaker 1: his media career by writing the Anti Woke Inc.
Speaker 4: Woke Inc.
Speaker 1: What was it?
Speaker 4: Woking?
Speaker 3: Book?
Speaker 1: And when he first was talking, remember of Saga. We
Speaker 1: watched his initial appearance and it was all about like
Speaker 1: ESG and CRT and wokeness, et cetera.
Speaker 4: Did anyone say the word woke?
Speaker 2: So I'm I believe that the word wokeness was not
Speaker 2: said once and that amazing. Fudes on a question about
Speaker 2: trans girls and sports, right, So that's and.
Speaker 1: It includes on questions about education, which was you know,
Speaker 1: Ronda Santis's bread and butter, and he got pitched that question.
Speaker 1: He didn't even say the word wokeness, So I mean,
Speaker 1: did he mentioned excuse me, CRT, but wokeness not at all.
Speaker 2: The fact that the word woke was not uttered, both
Speaker 2: by the questioners and by those who are answering, is
Speaker 2: absolutely in first of all, incredible development, I think, But
Speaker 2: second it shows you that they are imbibing a lot
Speaker 2: of the same polling data where Viveke and both Ron
Speaker 2: DeSantis the core pitch from DeSantis was and I actually
Speaker 2: thought that was his most effective pitch. He's like, I'm
Speaker 2: the governor. I run Florida, one of the most popular
Speaker 2: states of.
Speaker 3: The United States. You're talking about crime.
Speaker 2: I actually have a fifty year low crime rate. You're
Speaker 2: talking about actually governing in terms of locking the state down.
Speaker 2: I didn't do that whenever I was the governor. I
Speaker 2: mean that, I've always believed that was his best pitch,
Speaker 2: so moving towards that, it's still you know, his overall performance.
Speaker 3: And then for Vivic too, Vivike was doing two things.
Speaker 2: He was both selling the America First agenda as like
Speaker 2: Trump would understand it specifically on key issues, and he's
Speaker 2: really selling a national identity. I loved this moment where
Speaker 2: it was Mike Pence versus Ramaswami, where Pence was like,
Speaker 2: why are you talking about how America is losing its
Speaker 2: national character? You're betting against the American people, And in
Speaker 2: my head, I'm like, you were the vice president to
Speaker 2: the guy who gave American carnage in my opinion, one
Speaker 2: of the most important speeches in modern American history. I'm
Speaker 2: not saying it was a great speech as delivered the
Speaker 2: text of which no American president I'm trying to think,
Speaker 2: has ever taken and had an inaugural address saying things
Speaker 2: are not going well right now. Yeah, that's never happened before.
Speaker 2: It was a landmark moment in American history. Pence served
Speaker 2: as that man's vice president. Ramaswami is just reiterating the
Speaker 2: same feeling that. Frankly, I think the vast majority of
Speaker 2: the country, including many Republicans, feel the right track wrong
Speaker 2: track number has never been worse than it is right now.
Speaker 2: So seventy five twenty five, it's very clear Ramaswami is
Speaker 2: betting on the idea, and not just him, Trump as
Speaker 2: well is betting on the idea of dissatisfaction, of anger,
Speaker 2: of a feeling of going backwards. Yeah, that I think
Speaker 2: fits much more deeply, not only with the overall electorate,
Speaker 2: with the GOP electorate too huge moment.
Speaker 4: Yeah absolutely.
Speaker 1: I mean Pence again is the throwback, right, It's Ronald
Speaker 1: Reagan morning in America, and it's like, that's not the
Speaker 1: moment we're living in. And it was fun. I picked
Speaker 1: up on that same thing. I was like, you were
Speaker 1: the guy who were you know, you were there for
Speaker 1: the American carnage speech. You backed up this guy, and
Speaker 1: I do think that what Pence said last night is
Speaker 1: actually more true.
Speaker 4: To his political persona.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're right.
Speaker 1: I think he you know, I don't think he's like
Speaker 1: making this up. I think he genuinely feels what he said.
Speaker 1: I think he just you know, was always a little
Speaker 1: bit of an odd fit for Donald Trump and his,
Speaker 1: in my opinion, more accurate view of how people feel
Speaker 1: about the country at this point, as backed up by
Speaker 1: the numbers. All right, let's go ahead and move on
Speaker 1: to who we picked our power ranking, who we picked
Speaker 1: as winners and losers from this debate. I'll tell you
Speaker 1: how I was thinking about this very specifically, is not
Speaker 1: necessarily who had the best performances last night, but who
Speaker 1: is going to do themselves the most favors in the polls?
Speaker 1: Mark like, who's actually going to get a bump from this.
Speaker 1: Let's go and put this up on the screen. The
Speaker 1: first one is going to be no surprise. The vag Ramaswami,
Speaker 1: I think was the big winner of the night. He
Speaker 1: you know, got a lot of speaking time, second only
Speaker 1: to Mike Pence.
Speaker 4: He had.
Speaker 1: I mean, the biggest thing is like putting aside whether
Speaker 1: you're with them on Ukraine, against them on Ukraine or whatever.
Speaker 1: He had the vibes and he was the fighter. He
Speaker 1: drew so much incoming just by being the center of attention.
Speaker 1: He I think, really was elevated by the moment. And
Speaker 1: keep in mind, this is somebody who had one of
Speaker 1: the lower name ideas of this group, and I think
Speaker 1: he is certainly going to climb significantly in the polls.
Speaker 1: The other person that I put is kind of like
Speaker 1: a runner up winner was NICKI Haley because I do
Speaker 1: think she she has been almost invisible in terms of
Speaker 1: this presidential race since she announced. She announced, and then
Speaker 1: she like dropped off the scene and we really haven't
Speaker 1: heard much from her. I thought she handled herself very
Speaker 1: well in a number of these exchanges, including in you know,
Speaker 1: feisty exchanges with the Veke on both Ukraine and also
Speaker 1: the exchange she had on abortion. I thought she handled
Speaker 1: herself well. I think she distinguished herself. I think that,
Speaker 1: you know, there's a chance it's not that she's going
Speaker 1: to like skyrocket, but I think she'll get She's a
Speaker 1: three percent in the polls right now.
Speaker 2: I think she'll get a little bit of a bump because.
Speaker 1: She outperformed what people expected and distinguished herself and was
Speaker 1: you know, clear and had in my opinion overall, good night.
Speaker 3: I think you are definitely correct. I differ a little bit.
Speaker 2: I do think people should take a listen though to
Speaker 2: that Ukraine bit that we teased a little bit earlier,
Speaker 2: because it's important to this context.
Speaker 3: Let's take a listen.
Speaker 7: Is there anyone on stage who would not support the
Speaker 7: increase of more funding to Ukraine?
Speaker 10: Would we not support it? Europe needs to step up.
Speaker 10: I mean I would have Europe step up and do
Speaker 10: their job.
Speaker 11: Ukraine is the first line of defense for US, and
Speaker 11: the problem that Vvek doesn't understand is he wants to
Speaker 11: hand Ukraine to Russia. He wants to let China eat Taiwan.
Speaker 11: He wants to go and stop funding Israel. You don't
Speaker 11: do that to friends. What you do instead, as you
Speaker 11: have the backs of your friends Ukraine at the front
Speaker 11: line of defense. Putin has said if Russia once Russia
Speaker 11: takes Ukraine, Poland and the Baltics for next, that's a
Speaker 11: world war. We're trying to prevent war. Look at what
Speaker 11: Putin did today. He killed Progosen. When I was at
Speaker 11: the un the Russian ambassador suddenly died. This guy is
Speaker 11: a murderer, and you are choosing a murder or over
Speaker 11: a American country.
Speaker 12: You know, I wish you well in your future career
Speaker 12: on the boards of Lockheed and raytheon.
Speaker 9: But the facts of the matter, and you've been pushing
Speaker 9: this live stay, You've been pushing this lie all week.
Speaker 4: You want to go and defund Israel.
Speaker 10: You want to get let me address that. I'm glad
Speaker 10: you brought that up.
Speaker 4: Go and give you address those right now.
Speaker 13: The false is of a professional politician.
Speaker 11: There you have it, the reality of America lesson, you
Speaker 11: have no foreign policy experience, and then show you know
Speaker 11: what the.
Speaker 3: Policy experience that you are loving that Ukraine bid.
Speaker 1: I mean, listen, she got rocous applause for that. I
Speaker 1: thought that was the one exchange we're putting the substance
Speaker 1: of it aside where she's obviously like spouting just like
Speaker 1: neo Kan worldview, but she's spouting neo Kan worldview very effectively,
Speaker 1: and the audience raucously applauded her. That was the only
Speaker 1: time where I really felt it was clear that someone
Speaker 1: got the better of Avec in an exchange, even though
Speaker 1: in terms of where he has positioned himself. I think
Speaker 1: he has more of the GOP base on his side.
Speaker 1: But on the showmanship, she you know, really.
Speaker 4: Took it to him.
Speaker 1: She didn't back down, and I think it was a
Speaker 1: that's that moment, right there is the reason why I
Speaker 1: really think she did.
Speaker 4: Herself some favors.
Speaker 3: So I was checking the Google search trends this morning.
Speaker 2: We were both going over it, and the data basically
Speaker 2: bears out what you said. Vivike Ramaswami had the biggest
Speaker 2: search term bump of the night. He is obviously the
Speaker 2: most unknown, you know, funny name, etc. But Haley had
Speaker 2: the second biggest. We all have to look at it. It
Speaker 2: actually was equivalent to Vivike. She was the second biggest
Speaker 2: of the entire night. So I do think she's going
Speaker 2: to get a big donor pop off of this. And yeah,
Speaker 2: I look, we shouldn't pretend that that view isn't very predominant,
Speaker 2: at least a part some parts of the Republican Party,
Speaker 2: specifically the donors. I think a lot of whom were cheering.
Speaker 2: So listen, I think that she did well. My thing
Speaker 2: is that I because this entire debate, in a sense
Speaker 2: is a farce without Trump. I only thought there really
Speaker 2: could be one winner, and that's why I went and
Speaker 2: I'll put this up there on the screen.
Speaker 3: Guys, my winner.
Speaker 2: I just said it was Vivake because at the end
Speaker 2: of the day here, it's like choosing and parsing multiple
Speaker 2: everyone here is already fighting for number two, Like you
Speaker 2: can't be the clear winner when the literal winner is
Speaker 2: off doing an x interview and is polling at two
Speaker 2: thirds higher than every single other person on the stage.
Speaker 2: So I think it's fine to have a moment like
Speaker 2: Nikki Haley, But you know, I think she'll get a
Speaker 2: moderate polling bump. I think the Ukraine and the Bill
Speaker 2: Crystal people will freaking love her. But for the number
Speaker 2: two slot, the fact is Vivike was already nearly tied
Speaker 2: with Ramaswami and the RCP polling average Vivican DeSantis. I'm
Speaker 2: sorry and for Viveke to then have a forty percent
Speaker 2: non name ID in the state of Iowa, He's going
Speaker 2: to get massive media attention out of this. His name
Speaker 2: ID is going to go through the roof. I bet
Speaker 2: he's going to raise a ton of money. Then those
Speaker 2: stories about him rising the number two is going to
Speaker 2: generate even more earned media. It's a cycle of which
Speaker 2: can only really benefit him, I think up to the top.
Speaker 1: And you know, he he did a lot for himself,
Speaker 1: but he also was really given an assist, yes, by
Speaker 1: the fact that every candidate on stage was basically gunning
Speaker 1: for him. And you know, it's funny because we expected that,
Speaker 1: we that he was going to be able to handle
Speaker 1: himself well, and he did. And we also expected that
Speaker 1: since he has been willing to go on a bunch
Speaker 1: of different shows and mix it up with all kinds
Speaker 1: of different people who don't agree with him, that he
Speaker 1: would be well positioned to handle those sorts of attacks,
Speaker 1: and he was. What I didn't expect is that no
Speaker 1: one would basically even try to lay a glove on
Speaker 1: Ronda Santis. They basically moved on from him, which is
Speaker 1: a real sign of weakness on his part as well.
Speaker 1: But it ended up being a really failed strategy. It
Speaker 1: would have been much better for the rest of the
Speaker 1: field if they had pretended like the veig didn't really exist,
Speaker 1: because they gave him a lot of oxygen. They made
Speaker 1: him really central and it was very elevating.
Speaker 2: Go ahead over, I was going to say that was
Speaker 2: just so on display with Chris Christie, you know, in
Speaker 2: that moment where he tried to ridicule him for copying
Speaker 2: the by the way, I did think it was a
Speaker 2: bit odd the moment he said the line, I was like,
Speaker 2: isn't that what Obama said? I had hope speech same
Speaker 2: react was that audacity? I forget the two thousand and
Speaker 2: four speech, the red America black whatever, that's the.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's no red states and blue stags for DNC.
Speaker 3: Let's call it that.
Speaker 14: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So they kind of borrowed one of the lines from
Speaker 2: there and got called out by Chris Christy. Just take
Speaker 2: a listen here, because it's very clear he very much
Speaker 2: got under his skin.
Speaker 14: I've had enough already tonight of a guy who sounds
Speaker 14: like chatchy bt stand it up here. And the last
Speaker 14: person in one of these debates bread who stood in
Speaker 14: the middle of the stage and said, what's a skinny
Speaker 14: with an odd last name doing up here?
Speaker 8: Was Barack Obama.
Speaker 10: And I'm afraid we're dealing with the.
Speaker 14: Same type of amateur standing stage tonight.
Speaker 9: Give give me a hut just like you did all
Speaker 9: the same, and you'll help elect me, just like Obama
Speaker 9: to give me that type of Richard got hold on,
Speaker 9: hold On.
Speaker 2: I thought that was a good perry from a vague
Speaker 2: but also, as you could say, very clear, he drives
Speaker 2: him crazy. They were attacking him all night, and you
Speaker 2: put all of that together and it's just it's a
Speaker 2: it's a victory in terms of attention. Notice Mike Pence
Speaker 2: may have spoken more the entire night, he didn't have
Speaker 2: the same level of moments. He was actually more trying
Speaker 2: to dominate the conversation and also attack the others that
Speaker 2: were on the stage. I think it just irked him
Speaker 2: that He's like, I'm the freaking former vice president. I'm
Speaker 2: sitting here behind these two jokers, and I can't He's like,
Speaker 2: I just can't believe it. It was very much like
Speaker 2: you said, Amy Klobuchar energy towards Pete Boy true clearly
Speaker 2: drives him nuts.
Speaker 4: Absolutely.
Speaker 1: The person who was really clear just absolutely lows vague
Speaker 1: with my path.
Speaker 4: I mean, it was just visceral.
Speaker 1: From the first mention of him, it was really clear,
Speaker 1: and they had a bunch of exchanges back and forth.
Speaker 4: Chris Christy getting booed there.
Speaker 1: I think Chris Christy made a real sort of tactical
Speaker 1: error by saying like it's America, you're allowed to boo,
Speaker 1: because it sort of greenlit everybody to boo everything that
Speaker 1: he said from there on out, and he played the
Speaker 1: heel he's not going to be the Republican nominee. I
Speaker 1: thought it was a decent line there, you know, in
Speaker 1: terms of his hit on Vivek, I also thought vive
Speaker 1: handled it fine. But it just gives you a sense
Speaker 1: of how much he was taking the incoming and ended
Speaker 1: up being the center of attention, which is kind of incredible.
Speaker 4: In terms of my losers, let's go ahead and put
Speaker 4: this up on the screen.
Speaker 1: You know, two of them are people that we haven't
Speaker 1: even really talked about, Dog Burgram Asa Hutchinson.
Speaker 4: They just were kind of invisible.
Speaker 1: Their answers were kind of stumbling, They were awkward to watch,
Speaker 1: et cetera. I mean, I don't even know if I
Speaker 1: should calm losers because they're already at like below one percent, right,
Speaker 1: so are they really going to go down?
Speaker 4: They probably just stay where they already, be honest with you.
Speaker 1: The other person that I put up here, though, you
Speaker 1: might be surprised, which is Ronda Santis, And the reason
Speaker 1: why is not because I thought he had a terrible night.
Speaker 4: I thought he did fine.
Speaker 1: I thought some of his answers were kind of politician y,
Speaker 1: especially on climate change and abortion in Ukraine. He would
Speaker 1: sort of try to find that, like, you know, how
Speaker 1: can I wordsmith this to not really say anything or
Speaker 1: not really take a hard position. I thought that was
Speaker 1: noticeable at certain points, But overall I thought he did fine.
Speaker 1: The problem for him is he can't have all the
Speaker 1: oxygen sucked up by somebody else. And you know, if
Speaker 1: I'm looking at this in terms of who's going to
Speaker 1: go up in the polls and who's going to go
Speaker 1: down in the polls, I think it's very likely that
Speaker 1: Rondo Santis goes down in the polls, even in spite
Speaker 1: of the fact that he had a decent ounting, simply
Speaker 1: because for people who are looking for a Trump alternative,
Speaker 1: many of them are going to go to vi Vaig
Speaker 1: or you know, Nikki Haley. To the extent that you
Speaker 1: have other people on the stage who are proving themselves
Speaker 1: to be worthy second place contenders, that's a disaster for
Speaker 1: Rondo Santis, who has to consolidate all of the potential
Speaker 1: non Trump vote to have a prayer at this thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so this is where I'm just not sure.
Speaker 2: I'll put my losers guys up there, please on the screen,
Speaker 2: just so we can show a little bit of a difference,
Speaker 2: so mine as well. I feel like Bergham and Asa
Speaker 2: Hutchinson the obvious. My biggest loser was Christie relative to
Speaker 2: what I expected I thought he was. I put him
Speaker 2: as one of my expected winners of the night. He
Speaker 2: was completely unable to land the shots that he needed
Speaker 2: to both against Ramaswami.
Speaker 3: Here was the craziest thing, and this is kind of
Speaker 3: to your point.
Speaker 2: He did not say one word against Ron DeSantis, a
Speaker 2: man who he is attacked on Disney, a man who
Speaker 2: he is attacked many times before. If you want to
Speaker 2: consolidate the anti Trump vote, you need to be going
Speaker 2: after Ron DeSantis. He didn't land a single He didn't
Speaker 2: even try a shot against him against Ramaswami. Ramaswami interrupted
Speaker 2: him a couple of times. He parried, you know, pretty
Speaker 2: well on the Obama line as well. He never allowed
Speaker 2: him to self get Marco rubioed.
Speaker 3: He did.
Speaker 2: Christy takes a while to get keyed up before he
Speaker 2: delivers his deadly line. So clearly the lesson has just
Speaker 2: interrupted him, you know, throughout the entire thing, Christy man
Speaker 2: I and also there were the thing is Christy if
Speaker 2: he will notice? And remember he got the set question
Speaker 2: of the night where they directly gave him the opportunity
Speaker 2: to contrast with Ronde Santis. They're like, why are you
Speaker 2: better than DeSantis? I believe that was the framing of
Speaker 2: the question from Brett Baer. He miffed it totally.
Speaker 3: Started talking about his old record in New Jersey. Dude,
Speaker 3: you've been gone for almost a decade. There was way
Speaker 3: too we were talking about.
Speaker 1: Record, right and not even as governor is like you know,
Speaker 1: when he was on the legal side of things like
Speaker 1: it was. It was not a great night for Chris Chrissy.
Speaker 1: The reason I don't put him as a loser is
Speaker 1: because I don't think it's going to really change his
Speaker 1: poll enough. And so that's why I was thinking, but
Speaker 1: what do you think about Rhonda say you think he's
Speaker 1: going to go up.
Speaker 4: Down, stay the same?
Speaker 3: I I mean, you say flat, and that's a loss.
Speaker 2: Whenever you're going to see Ramaswamy have such a bump,
Speaker 2: that's so in a certain way, like I don't know,
Speaker 2: I didn't put him as a loser just because I
Speaker 2: thought it was. I thought it was such a wash.
Speaker 2: I want to see how it shakes out.
Speaker 3: It's listen.
Speaker 2: I mean some of the polling that we've seen people
Speaker 2: ranked him like number three. Again, it's like, eh, he
Speaker 2: was there.
Speaker 6: I don't know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's one of those round If you're not going
Speaker 3: to lose, then it's not necessarily the worst things for.
Speaker 4: This guy though.
Speaker 1: Who after the midterms, just remember how hot he was,
Speaker 1: how you know, the future was the headline and he was.
Speaker 1: He was up there right neck and neck with Trump.
Speaker 1: And now to go to the first debate where Trump's
Speaker 1: not even there number one and number two, you're not
Speaker 1: the center, like, you're not the guy that people are
Speaker 1: trying to take shots at, which, you know, on the
Speaker 1: one hand, it's safer for you. It allowed him to
Speaker 1: just go out and do the things that he had
Speaker 1: planned and roll out the you know whatever talking points
Speaker 1: he had prepared, which is not a knock on HND.
Speaker 1: They all had talking points prepared, but he's able to
Speaker 1: sort of do that seamlessly. On the other hand, you
Speaker 1: can see with the Veig what an opportunity it is
Speaker 1: when all of the fire is trained at you because
Speaker 1: you know you can eat.
Speaker 4: That's like risk reward.
Speaker 1: And so the fact that DeSantis didn't have that opportunity
Speaker 1: to be the center of attention, to take those attacks
Speaker 1: to prove he's a fighter, et cetera, I mean, it
Speaker 1: just makes him look small. And like I said, to
Speaker 1: begin with the fact that you have other contenders who
Speaker 1: are getting the attention, who are getting noticed or getting
Speaker 1: the Google search traffic interest, et cetera. You can't have
Speaker 1: that if you are DeSantis and you actually want to
Speaker 1: be the top Trump alternative. So that's why I put
Speaker 1: it as a loss for him, and I would expect
Speaker 1: him to go down a bit in the polls. Again,
Speaker 1: not because he had like a terrible night, just because
Speaker 1: of the nature of the dynamics of where he is
Speaker 1: and who really out performed him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you're right, Crystal, and all of that
Speaker 2: is very important. Let's move on then to the counterprogramming.
Speaker 2: The important thing that also happened last night. Trump drops
Speaker 2: his interview with Tucker Carlson top line. I'm just going
Speaker 2: to say this on Trump. I thought that he miffed
Speaker 2: it a bit. I think he could have had a
Speaker 2: much better opportunity to earn more orange media if he
Speaker 2: was willing to say something a little bit more provocative.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and listen, he had some funny moments. We're about
Speaker 3: to play them for you.
Speaker 2: I thought the most interesting moment that our producers also
Speaker 2: nabbed was the bite on civil war.
Speaker 3: Whether he thought we were close to a civil war?
Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty important whenever you're running for president and have
Speaker 2: some of the record that he has.
Speaker 3: So let's take a listen to what he said.
Speaker 8: Do you think we're moving towards civil war?
Speaker 13: This tremendous passion and this tremendous love. You know, January
Speaker 13: sixth was a very interesting day because they don't report
Speaker 13: it properly. People in that crowd, so it was the
Speaker 13: most beautiful day they've ever experienced. There was love in
Speaker 13: that grid. There was love and unity. I have never
Speaker 13: seen such spirit and such passion and such love. And
Speaker 13: I've also never seen, simultaneously, and from the same people,
Speaker 13: such hatred of what they've done to our country.
Speaker 10: So do you think it's possible that there's open conflict
Speaker 10: we seem to move.
Speaker 13: I don't know, because I don't know what it. You know,
Speaker 13: I can say this, there's a level of passion that
Speaker 13: I've never seen. There's a level of hatred that I've
Speaker 13: never seen them.
Speaker 2: I don't know, Crystal. I thought it was a fine answer.
Speaker 2: I've interviewed Trump before, I've asked him something similar. It
Speaker 2: basically was the same stock that he's always given about
Speaker 2: chan six. I mean, you pulled this bite about Kamala Harris.
Speaker 2: I thought this was his only good one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean agreed from what I saw there was
Speaker 1: and by the way, I mean, just overall, I think
Speaker 1: it was a mistake. I think I actually think I
Speaker 1: have come to think it was a mistake for him
Speaker 1: to not go to this debate, interesting because it allows
Speaker 1: people to imagine a Republican field without him, and I
Speaker 1: think a lot of Republican voters probably saw some things
Speaker 1: that they liked on that stage, whatever like flavor of
Speaker 1: conservative they happened to be.
Speaker 4: So I think it was a mistake.
Speaker 1: I think the specific choice he made to do the
Speaker 1: Tucker Carlson interview on Twitter, which Twitter still under Elon
Speaker 1: Musk as it was before, perhaps even more so under
Speaker 1: Elon Musk, is a niche platform. You know, most people
Speaker 1: are not going to watch any of that interview. The
Speaker 1: fact that you chose to, you know, rub Fox News's
Speaker 1: like knows in the fact that they turned against you
Speaker 1: and turned against Tucker or whatever. Also doesn't serve you
Speaker 1: because it means they're not going to talk about your
Speaker 1: interview whatsoever.
Speaker 4: They're not going to share any eclips.
Speaker 1: There was nothing provocative in it to grab the headlines
Speaker 1: and wrest them away from Vivek, who is certainly having
Speaker 1: his moment in the sun right now, and so he's
Speaker 1: done something very uncharacteristic, which was to allow someone else
Speaker 1: to grab the spotlight and to allow Republicans to imagine
Speaker 1: a party in a field without him. So I think
Speaker 1: it was a mistake. And then in terms of the
Speaker 1: content and interview it was boring.
Speaker 3: I'll give the counter it got some hundred and something
Speaker 3: million views so far.
Speaker 4: You know that's fake.
Speaker 10: Yeah, that's totally that.
Speaker 2: Whether is not real that I scrolled past it or not,
Speaker 2: who knows what the real number is. I most I
Speaker 2: think I'll split the difference. I think that at the
Speaker 2: end of the day, it won't matter whether he came
Speaker 2: or not. In terms of the mistake, I think it
Speaker 2: was a mistake democratically small d in order to give
Speaker 2: voters a chance. I also think looking at the stage,
Speaker 2: I think he would have dominated everybody there.
Speaker 3: He would have crushed.
Speaker 2: So, if anything, he had a missed opportunity to just
Speaker 2: make everybody look like infants, which I think he would
Speaker 2: have done just given his own the sheer amount of
Speaker 2: political skill he has visa v what we saw last night,
Speaker 2: where we really only saw one or two people with
Speaker 2: some real shine out moments, I think Trump would have
Speaker 2: absolutely dominated. But in terms of the content, like you
Speaker 2: were saying, I was shocked at how little he was
Speaker 2: willing to engage and play it up because he's such
Speaker 2: a showman.
Speaker 3: To that long.
Speaker 4: It was very low energy.
Speaker 3: He was lower energy.
Speaker 2: He did have one funny moment, as I said on
Speaker 2: Kamala Harris, let's take a listen to that.
Speaker 13: She has some bad moments. Her moments are almost as
Speaker 13: bad as his. I think his are worse.
Speaker 3: Actually, yeah, she seems pretty senl too.
Speaker 13: She speaks in rhyme. It's weird. It's weird, but she
Speaker 13: has bad moments and in rhyme. Well, the way she talks,
Speaker 13: the bus will go here, and then the bus will
Speaker 13: go there, because that's what busses do.
Speaker 6: It's weird.
Speaker 13: The whole thing is weird. This is not a president
Speaker 13: of the United States future.
Speaker 3: He's right, I mean, what is the technical term? I
Speaker 3: am big pantameter of he is onto something though.
Speaker 1: I mean Marshall had the best insight on Kamala Harris,
Speaker 1: which is she's always trying so hard to like Aaron's
Speaker 1: ork in it and say something meaningful, and it's like, just.
Speaker 4: Just like say the thing.
Speaker 3: You would be better off with basic syntax.
Speaker 2: The final moment was on Epstein, where he both seems
Speaker 2: to say that he thinks Epstein killed himself, but he
Speaker 2: leaves himself a little bit off to he dodged the bit.
Speaker 2: I was surprised by this. Let's take a listen, guys, do.
Speaker 10: You think Epstein killed himself? Sincerely, I don't know.
Speaker 13: I will say that, you know he was a fixture
Speaker 13: in Palm Beach. Yeah, I don't know what Barr said
Speaker 13: about it either. I have no idea what he said.
Speaker 13: What did he say he killed himself?
Speaker 2: Probably he said he killed himself and that they were
Speaker 2: gonna do this investigation.
Speaker 10: They never did the investigation. It's public and they hit
Speaker 10: it and like, why are they doing that?
Speaker 2: He literally Barr knew, but why would Bill Barr be
Speaker 2: covering up the death of Jeffrey Epstein.
Speaker 13: Bill Barr didn't do an investigation on the election fraud either. Okay,
Speaker 13: he said he did, and he pretended he did, but
Speaker 13: he didn't. MC Swayne, the US attorney in Pennsylvania Philadelphia,
Speaker 13: said Bar just wouldn't let him do It was crazy.
Speaker 1: I was reminded of the time he got asked about
Speaker 1: Gleene Maxwell, remember that at the Poet and it was like,
Speaker 1: I wish well, and everyone's like.
Speaker 6: What he knew her?
Speaker 3: This is the thing you knew them? As he said
Speaker 3: he knew Jeffrey and Palm Beach.
Speaker 1: Yeah, a fiction of Palm Beach. Was like, that doesn't
Speaker 1: really pertain to the question that was asked.
Speaker 3: Here's that famous line.
Speaker 2: What did he say where he's like Jeffrey he likes
Speaker 2: him young or so something like that whenever they knew
Speaker 2: each other back in the.
Speaker 3: Mar A Lago days.
Speaker 2: But he claimed that he was pissed off at Epstein
Speaker 2: and so he banned him from the club. Anyway, those
Speaker 2: were like the Big three. I guess, yeah, people are
Speaker 2: forty six minutes. That's mostly what people took notice of.
Speaker 2: I don't think he did it effective of enough of
Speaker 2: a job of earned media, because it's not just about
Speaker 2: the interview or whatever itself and the people who watched it.
Speaker 3: It's about actually getting others to cover it.
Speaker 2: And it's clear, you know, I'm looking at the front
Speaker 2: pages of the New York Times and all of the
Speaker 2: other major papers, as well as some of the banners
Speaker 2: from Fox News, but also you know, in terms of
Speaker 2: YouTube creators and others, and you know, the main headline
Speaker 2: mostly comes out of the debate and not from the
Speaker 2: X interview.
Speaker 4: And that's way more interesting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he needed if this were to be a success,
Speaker 2: it would have to have been a big event that
Speaker 2: forced the media to cover it.
Speaker 1: And I haven't seen that very uncharacteristic who if anything else.
Speaker 1: I mean, this is a man who knows compelling TV
Speaker 1: and he really didn't create any in that inner and
Speaker 1: got completely unshine by the Republican debate.
Speaker 4: So, you know, rare, rare situation in terms of the
Speaker 4: Trump Show.
Speaker 1: All Right, We've got Emily and Kyle standing by to
Speaker 1: also weigh in and see their thoughts on whether Trump
Speaker 1: made a mistake here by not showing up to the debate,
Speaker 1: and we want to hear their overall debate thoughts as well.
Speaker 4: So let's go ahead and get to it.
Speaker 1: All right, We've got our power panel here in the house.
Speaker 4: We got Emily and Kyle to add their thoughts on
Speaker 4: the debate last night. Wanted to start guys with the conversation.
Speaker 1: Saga and I were just having what do you guys
Speaker 1: think about whether or not Trump made a mistake by
Speaker 1: not doing the debate and deciding to do this Twitter
Speaker 1: interview with Tucker Cross and Emily.
Speaker 4: Go ahead, what are your thoughts?
Speaker 6: Yeah, I don't think it was a mistake. I mean,
Speaker 6: I think he wins either way because he's got forty
Speaker 6: points in the polls. I think his interview with Tucker
Speaker 6: was compelling.
Speaker 3: It's on a new platform.
Speaker 6: It did get a lot of views. We don't know
Speaker 6: how many because those numbers are so juiced and fake. Yes,
Speaker 6: but at the same time, it was fairly viral. There's
Speaker 6: a lot in it. He got to talk about whatever
Speaker 6: he wanted to talk about, and he didn't have to
Speaker 6: look like he was debasing himself. Again, I think he
Speaker 6: should debate, but he like from a strategic point of view,
Speaker 6: he just can't lose at this point when he's forty
Speaker 6: points up unless there's a real someone mounts a very
Speaker 6: serious threat to him. But he's even up twenty six
Speaker 6: points according to rcp's average.
Speaker 10: In Iowa right now.
Speaker 6: So unless there's a really serious threat to him, I
Speaker 6: just don't see how he loses. He could have crushed
Speaker 6: that debate. I think he probably would have had a
Speaker 6: lot of viral moments, a lot of fun with it,
Speaker 6: like circa twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen. But again, I just
Speaker 6: don't think there was any way for him to lose,
Speaker 6: despite like whatever decision he made.
Speaker 3: Yes, what do you think, Kyle?
Speaker 12: I mean, if he just showed up and farded on stage,
Speaker 12: you would have won the debate. I mean I remember
Speaker 12: back in the previous elections, he would show up. There
Speaker 12: would even be nights where he had an off night,
Speaker 12: and still the reaction would be all the poll show
Speaker 12: he won, all the focus groups say he won. There's
Speaker 12: something about his vibes that resonates with the GOP base.
Speaker 12: So the only way he could lose is by not going.
Speaker 12: And I actually think that you're going to see a real,
Speaker 12: real minor of chipping away on his numbers.
Speaker 10: Again, I agree with Emily.
Speaker 12: I don't think it's going to actually make a difference ultimately,
Speaker 12: But I do think you'll see a three, four or
Speaker 12: five point reduction in his numbers, and that'll sort of
Speaker 12: spread out among the candidates who did well.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Could he could have humiliated everybody on the stage and
Speaker 1: basically closed the door for anyone. You know, Chris Christy
Speaker 1: was not on his a game last night, so I
Speaker 1: don't think he would have been a real threat to
Speaker 1: Trump in terms of, you know, any sort of exchange there.
Speaker 4: And what I said earlier is he.
Speaker 1: Actually opened the door for Republican voters to envision a
Speaker 1: post Trump Republican party, which is not something that he
Speaker 1: should allow. And very uncharacteristically, he also allowed someone else
Speaker 1: but vike Ramswami, to basically grab the spotlight from him.
Speaker 4: So do I think that means that like Vivik's going
Speaker 4: to beat him?
Speaker 6: No?
Speaker 4: But do I think it erose his support some?
Speaker 1: Do I think that it enables someone else to get
Speaker 1: some oxygen for Republican voters to imagine different Yeah.
Speaker 4: I do think from that perspective it was probably a mistake.
Speaker 6: Although he still loomed really large. There was this whole
Speaker 6: extended segment about Trump himself he was. I mean, he
Speaker 6: was there very much. And I think from the perspective
Speaker 6: of a Republican voter, they're still thinking about Trump when
Speaker 6: he's not in the room, even when all these guys
Speaker 6: are answering questions. And to your point, Crystal, I agree.
Speaker 6: I think that's so interesting to see this group of
Speaker 6: people who are not Donald Trump, who are jocking for
Speaker 6: the nomination and for the average Republican voter, I think
Speaker 6: a lot of people looked at that and were like, damn,
Speaker 6: this is what we got. These are my choices, And
Speaker 6: I mean, in some sense it explains why you still
Speaker 6: have so few undecided voters in the Republican primary.
Speaker 2: One of the things that kind of came across to
Speaker 2: me Kyle was one of the reasons why Viveke was
Speaker 2: doing well was because he wasn't running against Trump like
Speaker 2: he was actually the bigger defender of Trump. And so
Speaker 2: in that way, when you have a power dynamic like that,
Speaker 2: I kind of do agree with you where even if
Speaker 2: Trump had showed up, if it really would have robbed
Speaker 2: Viveke of the spotlight, because in Viveke couldn't just defend
Speaker 2: Trump and be the person kind of standing up some
Speaker 2: of the more America First, MAGA policy areas like he was.
Speaker 2: It gave him more of a contrast, and I think
Speaker 2: he would have had if Trump was there. That said,
Speaker 2: I mean, because he's looming so larger of this whole thing.
Speaker 2: It's just difficult to look at this as you're a
Speaker 2: loss or a win. Like you said, three four points.
Speaker 2: I mean, Trump doesn't care. That's that's more than he's
Speaker 2: already made up. Since Ron De Santis and vivek announcement.
Speaker 12: I think the vec's numbers will go up, but I
Speaker 12: think that those people are still going to vote for Trump,
Speaker 12: you know what I mean. So it's almost like it's
Speaker 12: like a sort of a fake win. I think he's
Speaker 12: gunning for VP slot or something in the administration. And
Speaker 12: I do have justlight disagreeing with you guys on the VEC.
Speaker 12: I feel like he did straight in the first half,
Speaker 12: but then in the second half, I feel like he
Speaker 12: really got hammered into the ground.
Speaker 3: So you watched it twice, Yes, I'm curious. Sorry, go ahead, Grissel.
Speaker 1: Well, I was just gonna just to keep it on
Speaker 1: Trump for another moment here because the other question would be, like,
Speaker 1: you know, I think it's disgraceful that Trump didn't show
Speaker 1: up at the debate. I think it's disgraceful that Joe
Speaker 1: Biden isn't going to debate. I think it's disgusting. I
Speaker 1: think you want to talk about, like, you know, deterioration
Speaker 1: of democracy or whatever. I think this is number one
Speaker 1: case in point. However, we have a poll that we
Speaker 1: can cite here that shows that Donald Trump. They asked,
Speaker 1: was Donald Trump right to have attended the debate? To
Speaker 1: have not attended the debate, seventy one percent of Republican said, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's the thing.
Speaker 3: It would do.
Speaker 12: It would be the opposite if he went. If he went,
Speaker 12: it'd be like ninety eight percent say he should have gone.
Speaker 12: So like, I don't take much.
Speaker 1: From this, which just shows you, but it just shows
Speaker 1: you how central whatever he does.
Speaker 12: They're like, I agree, I agree, but you know, have
Speaker 12: fun moving those deck chairs around on the top of
Speaker 12: the Titanic. Because he's got ninety one criminal charges against him,
Speaker 12: and eventually I think he's going to be going.
Speaker 10: In to prison.
Speaker 6: Well, and again, his numbers have gone up, and you
Speaker 6: guys have talked about this many times. His numbers are
Speaker 6: going up. The more the indictments stack up, the more
Speaker 6: Trump supports stacks in the Republican primary, in the Republican
Speaker 6: non the general, and maybe there's a ceiling in the
Speaker 6: Republican primary on that. We haven't seen it be the
Speaker 6: case so far. In fact, what we've seen is the
Speaker 6: gulf widening between him and everybody else, which is another
Speaker 6: interesting thing when you look at this group of people.
Speaker 6: The analogy that I'm thinking in my head, it's like
Speaker 6: you have some of the people from varsity playing on
Speaker 6: the JV squad that would be like DeSantis, which is
Speaker 6: why you know he wasn't dunking right like yes, where
Speaker 6: Vivek is the freshman, so he's like dunking left and right,
Speaker 6: like he's trying even if he misses, he's trying to
Speaker 6: show that he can jump. He's trying to get it
Speaker 6: all in. And when you have Pence and Christy like
Speaker 6: begging for airtime basically like they just looked like they
Speaker 6: were debasing themselves just to get a like this is
Speaker 6: a former vice president of the United State, it's a
Speaker 6: former governor of a state, and they are just squabbling,
Speaker 6: scrambling for airtime with people like Doug Burghum, I mean,
Speaker 6: come on looks. It's a bad look.
Speaker 4: It's really especially I think more people should have skipped
Speaker 4: the debate.
Speaker 6: No, no, I think they should have just I think
Speaker 6: they should have just like not been scrambling so desperate
Speaker 6: dignified like Mike Pence kept if Mike Pence kept saying like,
Speaker 6: oh I want to get in here, like he's saying.
Speaker 3: That out loud, and I was like, oh, buddy, come
Speaker 3: on the vice.
Speaker 6: President, like let viveg do that.
Speaker 12: There's no winning for them though, if they if they
Speaker 12: didn't say anything, everybody'd be like, why are you being
Speaker 12: so meek? Why are you being so nebbish? Are you
Speaker 12: being so weak? Which now they say a lot and
Speaker 12: it's like the bro relax.
Speaker 10: They just can't win.
Speaker 1: It's kind of it's kind of a humiliating thing for
Speaker 1: anyone who I mean, it's very humbling, especially for if
Speaker 1: you've been former vice president and you got to be
Speaker 1: there on the City. You can tell how much it
Speaker 1: irked him not to be there with Asa Hutchinson and
Speaker 1: Doug Burgram, who he views because they have political cretentials
Speaker 1: as legitimate and he didn't find it disrespectful to be
Speaker 1: on stage with them. Mike Pence despises the vag Ramaswami
Speaker 1: and we made this comparison earlier, but it really does
Speaker 1: remind me of Amy Klobashar and the way she felt
Speaker 1: about Pete Boodaget.
Speaker 4: She thought, this guy has done nothing.
Speaker 1: He was a mayor of this tiny town here, I've
Speaker 1: been a senator, I've done all these things. Like you
Speaker 1: could viscerally see how much she despised being up there
Speaker 1: next to him. And then he comes out and actually
Speaker 1: is you know, gets higher in the polls and places
Speaker 1: better and I better in New Hampshire, et cetera very
Speaker 1: humiliating experience, oftentimes running for president of the United States.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you're right.
Speaker 2: Let's underscore this also though, in terms of why it
Speaker 2: didn't necessarily work out for Pence. We have a focus
Speaker 2: group that CNN actually did immediately after the debate in Iowa.
Speaker 2: So let's all take a listen to that about who
Speaker 2: they said actually won the debate.
Speaker 15: Here's what I want to ask you about who you
Speaker 15: thought did the best during this debate. Basically, who do
Speaker 15: you think won the debate? I'm gonna do it in
Speaker 15: alphabetical order to be fair. Anyone think Doug Bergham did
Speaker 15: the best.
Speaker 6: That zero?
Speaker 15: Anyone think Chris Christy did the best. He certainly got
Speaker 15: most of the airtime, a lot of the airtime, not
Speaker 15: most of the airtime. How about Ron DeSantis? How many
Speaker 15: of you think Ron DeSantis did the best? That's two people?
Speaker 15: How about Nikki Haley one, two, three, four people, Asa Hutchinson,
Speaker 15: Mike Pence zero theyk Ramaswami one, two, three, four, five
Speaker 15: six seven Tim Scott Okay, So this panel here thinks
Speaker 15: Ramaswami won the debate.
Speaker 1: So I personally really like that focus group because it
Speaker 1: matches up with my when HER's and losers number.
Speaker 4: One top one was Viveke and number two.
Speaker 1: I actually thought Nicki Haley of the like also rans
Speaker 1: did herself some favors, in particular in her exchange with
Speaker 1: the VIC on Ukraine where she actually got the crowd
Speaker 1: behind her. I thought it was the one moment where
Speaker 1: Viveke was really kind of on his heels and where
Speaker 1: she got the better of him in that exchange.
Speaker 4: But Kyle, what are your overall thoughts?
Speaker 12: So, like I said, I think Ramaswami came out of
Speaker 12: the gates hard and he was doing well early on.
Speaker 12: I think he fell off massively. He had a number
Speaker 12: of lines where he got like very clearly booed his
Speaker 12: thing on climate change, calling it a hoax. I think
Speaker 12: on the issue of Ukraine, regardless of what you think
Speaker 12: of the substance, I think Nikki Haley got the better
Speaker 12: of him on that. I even think Mike Pence got
Speaker 12: the better of him on that. There were moments where
Speaker 12: he just sort of like, you know, faded into the background.
Speaker 12: He was shining bright and then he sort of faded
Speaker 12: into the background. So I don't agree with you on
Speaker 12: that at all. My biggest winners like you. On Nikki Haley, I.
Speaker 10: Think she did way better than anybody expected.
Speaker 4: Yeah, she beat the bar.
Speaker 12: But I also think and this you'll definitely have an
Speaker 12: issue with this one. I actually think DeSantis had a
Speaker 12: way better debate than I was expecting. And I watched
Speaker 12: it twice, and when I went back and I listened,
Speaker 12: there was a number of lines where he got like
Speaker 12: really loud applause, so nobody laid a glove on him,
Speaker 12: and he was able to get his talking points out.
Speaker 12: He got really loud applause. And I think that he
Speaker 12: comes out of his looking the best to be honest,
Speaker 12: what do you think.
Speaker 6: I actually agree completely with that point, because again, I
Speaker 6: think all he needed to do he knows that this
Speaker 6: debate is not going to make a huge dent in
Speaker 6: the polls, Like that's actually probably one of the most
Speaker 6: important things, like predicates that you could come into that
Speaker 6: debate as a candidate thinking unless you're a vague, unless
Speaker 6: you're like the freshman and the analogy that I'm not torturing.
Speaker 3: But I think DeSantis just.
Speaker 6: Needed to be there. He needed to not have any
Speaker 6: moments where he gets dunked on, and he didn't need
Speaker 6: to have moments where he dunks on other people. He
Speaker 6: just needed to be solid because this debate is not
Speaker 6: going to change a forty point lead. That's going to
Speaker 6: have to be done in the ground, on the ground
Speaker 6: in Iowa.
Speaker 4: Well, it's sad that you're both wrong.
Speaker 6: I thought Jonah Hill won the debate.
Speaker 4: I don't think we can all agree on it.
Speaker 1: No, So here's my analysis with Desanta's I thought, I
Speaker 1: agree that I thought he's in fine. Like I didn't
Speaker 1: think they had any big mess ups. I thought I
Speaker 1: had some answers that were kind of like weasily a politician,
Speaker 1: But whatever they all have those moments, right. I thought
Speaker 1: he was totally solid and I expected him. I put
Speaker 1: him as one of my predictions as a winner going
Speaker 1: in because the bar has been set so low for
Speaker 1: him with all of the like, let's mind every awkward
Speaker 1: moment we possibly can a Rond de Santis and you know,
Speaker 1: convince people that he is like the weirdest human being
Speaker 1: un planet Earth. And he's a little weird, but he's
Speaker 1: not the weirdest human being un planet Earth. So I
Speaker 1: do think that he exceeded the bar. I thought he
Speaker 1: was perfectly solid. But if you're Ron DeSantis and you
Speaker 1: were the guy that was tied with Trump in the
Speaker 1: polls for a while, that coming out of the midterms,
Speaker 1: you were the winner. You know, you were putting points
Speaker 1: on the board, like check the score or whatever. For
Speaker 1: you to lose the spotlight to viviak Ramaswami, for you
Speaker 1: to get out shown by like Nikki Hayley, that's a
Speaker 1: big loss. And I think that his polling will probably
Speaker 1: go down just because this is with this divided field.
Speaker 1: If you have other people who are sucking up oxygen
Speaker 1: and getting attention, you know, so it's got to come
Speaker 1: from somewhere. It's probably not coming mostly from Trump, and
Speaker 1: so that's why I think overall, in some ways he
Speaker 1: was the biggest loser because he's so diminished from where
Speaker 1: he used to be.
Speaker 12: Go ahead, can't hold his past against him. The question
Speaker 12: is whether or not he won that particular debate.
Speaker 4: Well, the way I'm looking at this is where what
Speaker 4: are the Poles going to do?
Speaker 14: Right?
Speaker 10: I think I think they're going to go up for
Speaker 10: him for sure.
Speaker 2: Well I'm very serious to that though, because the thing
Speaker 2: is is that DeSantis has slid, as Crystal is saying
Speaker 2: now from thirty five to forty all the way down
Speaker 2: to the RCPA or somewhere between sixteen seventeen. Ramaswami already
Speaker 2: around twelve. I was talking about this earlier in the
Speaker 2: show Iowa he's got forty percent, no name id, People
Speaker 2: don't even know who the guy is. So if DeSantis
Speaker 2: slips from that and then Ramaswami starts to get up,
Speaker 2: not only is Ramaswami then potentially taking over Ron DeSantis,
Speaker 2: but then there's an entire media cycle about this guy
Speaker 2: came from nowhere and is now overtaking number two with
Speaker 2: an earned media that spirals there. People like to pick
Speaker 2: a winner. I mean, look all of this again, as
Speaker 2: you said, Emily, Trump is above all of this.
Speaker 10: Yeah, they're all Trump voters. Ramaswami has no actual support.
Speaker 10: These are all Trump voters.
Speaker 2: But I mean, listen, there are some people, at least
Speaker 2: in Iowa currently, from what we can see, let's say,
Speaker 2: let's call it one third, maybe let's call it any
Speaker 2: between one third and approximately up to like forty percent,
Speaker 2: there's people that are not They like Trump, they have
Speaker 2: a lot of affection for Trump, They're willing to vote
Speaker 2: for somebody else, especially in this ridiculous caucus system.
Speaker 3: The whole how does it work?
Speaker 2: It's like one two and then you know, if this
Speaker 2: person goes away, then you can go and you can
Speaker 2: caucus with somebody else. They kind of look the whole
Speaker 2: what is it? They vote with their heart in Iowa.
Speaker 2: So I think that in that scenario, I could see,
Speaker 2: I can see a big.
Speaker 12: Knight told them Trump is the best president of this century. Yeah,
Speaker 12: so why are you running?
Speaker 3: Listen?
Speaker 10: Why are you running? It makes no sense?
Speaker 2: I really wish Emily the moderators asked that damn question.
Speaker 3: If you believe that, why are any of you running
Speaker 3: against Trump? I would I would actually love to see
Speaker 3: that question.
Speaker 10: Here's the thing.
Speaker 12: Everybody on stage was either a total Trump siicophant or
Speaker 12: a Trump hater except one person, Ron Desanti's interesting. It's true.
Speaker 12: So there were a bunch of lines. He hit lockdowns
Speaker 12: and the deep state and Fauci. He got a huge applause.
Speaker 12: He hit Soros funded DA's huge applause. He did his line,
Speaker 12: which I actually when I went back and watch it
Speaker 12: the second time, I thought he handled this brilliantly. When
Speaker 12: they were trying to get him an answer like did
Speaker 12: Mike Pence do the right thing? He basically said, look,
Speaker 12: I've got no beef with you, Pench, you did the
Speaker 12: right thing. But then he went, why are we even
Speaker 12: talking about this? Though we're helping the Democrats, we should
Speaker 12: be focusing on the issues. He got a big applause
Speaker 12: on that. He said, kill people at the border, leaving
Speaker 12: Stone cold dead. Got a big applause on that. By
Speaker 12: the way, I hate all of these things, but I'm
Speaker 12: just saying it landed special forces invading Mexico to attack
Speaker 12: the drunk ker, huge applause on that he's only one
Speaker 12: who didn't get hit and wasn't a Trump siicophant and
Speaker 12: wasn't a Trump hater like Asa and Christie were. So
Speaker 12: I definitely think he comes out of this looking the best.
Speaker 1: Here's the thing, because the other piece is like, what
Speaker 1: did you think this debate was about? And to me,
Speaker 1: this debate is not about beating Trump. This debate was
Speaker 1: about being the top alternative to Trump, and given the
Speaker 1: Republican base's affection for Donald Trump, the best way to
Speaker 1: position yourself as the top alternative to Trump is by
Speaker 1: being as Trump sycophantic as you possibly can.
Speaker 10: So Beta, I think I love him, but for me,
Speaker 10: I think the best it is one percent.
Speaker 4: It's totally Beta.
Speaker 1: But at the same time that you say you know that,
Speaker 1: you say it's beta. Vivic was the person who had
Speaker 1: the most like you know, assertive like vibes on the stage,
Speaker 1: and so much of this is about the vibes. He
Speaker 1: was the fighter, he drew the fire, he was able
Speaker 1: to pairy the attacks. He was the center of attention,
Speaker 1: sort of coming out of nowhere. And so the fact
Speaker 1: that you know, he was the center of the show
Speaker 1: and DeSantis, who was really supposed to be the guy,
Speaker 1: was on the sidelines. You know, I think in terms
Speaker 1: of that jocking to be the potential number two. There's
Speaker 1: just no doubt in my mind for a vake won
Speaker 1: that away from DeSantis.
Speaker 6: I haven't been for like the last couple of months,
Speaker 6: been thinking every question that the Vey handles in regard
Speaker 6: to Donald Trump is exactly how Rondo Santis should have
Speaker 6: been handling it from a strategic perspective, because it's that
Speaker 6: huge Trump contingent that is going to vote for him
Speaker 6: right now, and if you are trying to take that,
Speaker 6: maybe there's some persuadable people in there that you can
Speaker 6: get into your basket. If you're trying to do that,
Speaker 6: you have to have to show that you're on the
Speaker 6: same page as them when it comes to Donald Trump.
Speaker 6: Otherwise you are going to be put in the basket
Speaker 6: of an establishment hack who doesn't understand what Trump did
Speaker 6: to the Republican Party. If you're somebody who votes for
Speaker 6: Donald Trump, you're somebody who's saying I'm tired of establishment politicians.
Speaker 6: Rond de Santa is acting like an establishment politician and
Speaker 6: having these canned answers when it comes to Trump. I
Speaker 6: genuinely don't think it's been helpful.
Speaker 2: Let me back up what she's saying and I want
Speaker 2: to hear your response, which is that at the end
Speaker 2: of the day, all these people are running as number two,
Speaker 2: and the hope and prayer is that something happens to Trump,
Speaker 2: as you said, he goes to jail, and then the
Speaker 2: MAGA people actually have to choose somebody alternatively, very low chance,
Speaker 2: but it's possible. I've told this anecdote before. Lynnon Johnson.
Speaker 2: They asked and they're like, why are you meeting the
Speaker 2: vice president? You're one of the most powerful people in Washington.
Speaker 2: And he named the number of presidents that have been killed.
Speaker 2: I think he's like one in five. He's like one
Speaker 2: in five. I like those odds, Darlin.
Speaker 3: That's what he said to a reporter.
Speaker 10: So it's like, that's.
Speaker 6: Effectively the game, and that's when all these guys, we're younger,
Speaker 6: are playing. Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 2: Young So in this scenario, VIVEIQ by defending Trump, the
Speaker 2: most can consolidate. In this hypothetical like black Swan scenario,
Speaker 2: which is which is the only path.
Speaker 12: For Yeah, So in that I don't get first of
Speaker 12: all these people they're siloed off, they're in their own bubble.
Speaker 12: There was when they asked a question about like if
Speaker 12: Trump gets convicted, would you still vote for him? And like,
Speaker 12: everybody's hand went up except Asa and Christy. When I
Speaker 12: look at that, I'm like, general election over. I understand that,
Speaker 12: but I'm saying, but, okay, what's the ultimate goal. They're
Speaker 12: running for president? The ultimate goal is to get to
Speaker 12: the White House. Okay, so congrats. You might if Trump
Speaker 12: ends up in prison, you might have weaseled your way
Speaker 12: by sucking them off into getting into the position where you're.
Speaker 10: Gonna get but you're gonna lose. You're gonna lose. So
Speaker 10: I just look at this.
Speaker 12: I think, to me, it's like, oh, Vivek's being called
Speaker 12: anti Simes. There's nothing anti establishment about this guy. First
Speaker 12: of all, I know, yeah, and when you're when you're
Speaker 12: snuggling up to the guy with ninety one criminal charges
Speaker 12: against him, and you think, what that makes you an outsider?
Speaker 1: And he was.
Speaker 12: Of course, he was trying to be anti war on
Speaker 12: the one hand, but then on the other hand, he
Speaker 12: kept bringing up China in a hawkish mat He's called
Speaker 12: for war with Mexico over the drug cartels. I just okay,
Speaker 12: But substance aside, I don't I think that that beta
Speaker 12: strategy makes you a beta, like I don't think anybody
Speaker 12: who's supporting the VEC is actually going to support the VEC.
Speaker 12: I think, I agree with you A numbers are going
Speaker 12: to go up after this, but I think it's fake support.
Speaker 10: I think they're ultimately all going to vote for Trump
Speaker 10: because the VEC is telling them Trump's the guy.
Speaker 6: Publican voters will see it as beta that Rhanda Santis
Speaker 6: is taking DC talking points on Trump. That's the Republican
Speaker 6: voter perspective.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1: Let me display Devil's advocate in terms of like a
Speaker 1: possibility to another like a Trump actually getting outright defeated,
Speaker 1: which I don't think is going to happen. I think
Speaker 1: that he would have to be sort of removed by
Speaker 1: going to jail or something crazy like that. But you know,
Speaker 1: in Iowa and in New Hampshire, I'm looking right now
Speaker 1: at the Real Clear Politics average, and he's quote unquote
Speaker 1: only forty three percent in Iowa and forty four percent
Speaker 1: in New Hampshire. That means a majority of Republicans are
Speaker 1: actually not with him in those states, yes, and are
Speaker 1: at the very least evaluating their alternatives right now. In
Speaker 1: both of those states. As it stands, Ron de Santis
Speaker 1: is the top alternative. I would submit it is very
Speaker 1: possible that after this debate, Vivik moves into that position
Speaker 1: of being the top Trump alternative with all of the
Speaker 1: media attention. Americans love also like a fresh new face,
Speaker 1: someone we didn't hear about before Nuance.
Speaker 4: They like we.
Speaker 1: Americans love that story, regardless of the political party.
Speaker 12: That they're in.
Speaker 1: And so I think the fact that he out shown
Speaker 1: DeSantis and was the center of so much attacks from
Speaker 1: some figures on that stage that Republican base, by the way,
Speaker 1: really hates, I think that's very beneficial for him.
Speaker 4: And I think it's really deletious for DeSantis.
Speaker 6: The math in Iowa is actually interesting. It does not
Speaker 6: match up to the general election math, but it does
Speaker 6: have desantus down by twenty six points. And the fact
Speaker 6: that we're even calling that interesting is funny because we
Speaker 6: are still pretty far away from people actually going to
Speaker 6: caucus in Iowa. But if Ron de Santis and vi
Speaker 6: Vike Ramaswami start to become competitive in Iowa, what's important
Speaker 6: to think about is that is the reverse basically of
Speaker 6: what's happening Nash, and that most people in Iowa say
Speaker 6: they want to vote for somebody other than Trump. He's
Speaker 6: still under fifty percent I think in Iowa. Yeah, and
Speaker 6: that is fascinating because that means you get into a
Speaker 6: scenario where you maybe have people dropping out like what
Speaker 6: happened with Democrats in twenty twenty. And if somebody does
Speaker 6: manage to win Iowa. Ted Cruz went to Iowa in
Speaker 6: twenty sixteen. This is why I think Rond de Santis
Speaker 6: campaign strategy, which is very directly to put all of
Speaker 6: their eggs in the Iowa basket. I think it's stupid
Speaker 6: to begin with, because you can win Iowa and still
Speaker 6: not do much, but you could consolidate a portion of
Speaker 6: the Republican vote and then see if you can flip
Speaker 6: that national math to look more like Iowa. It's a
Speaker 6: long shot, Yeah, but THEVEC and I. If Ronde santa'sn't
Speaker 6: Viveke come close like that, you're going to see some
Speaker 6: really interesting stuff happen.
Speaker 1: Let me ask a different question that I'm curious about.
Speaker 1: Do you think that Trump is going to start attacking
Speaker 1: Viveke if he does go up in the polls and
Speaker 1: does take some of the spotlight.
Speaker 3: Yes, that's it.
Speaker 10: N I don't think not yet.
Speaker 12: I think the only I think Trump will only start
Speaker 12: attacking the veck when Vivek says something negative about him.
Speaker 10: That's how Trump operates. He's super transaction.
Speaker 12: You could say eighty things negative about him, but if
Speaker 12: the very last thing you said about him was positive,
Speaker 12: then it'll be a great guy, wonderful guy, really smart.
Speaker 4: Maybe, but you might be.
Speaker 1: I'm ambivalent about this question myself. I don't know the answer.
Speaker 1: But he's not a counter argument would be that the
Speaker 1: other thing you can do to Trump outside of, like,
Speaker 1: you know, being disloyal, is dealing a spotlight.
Speaker 12: He's not a threat. See that's where we fundamentally disagree.
Speaker 12: I think he's so not a threat and he's so
Speaker 12: beta that Trump is loving. Is he's getting free advertisements
Speaker 12: from the guy who is at the debate?
Speaker 14: Yes and no.
Speaker 3: So look Trump is a media whore.
Speaker 2: A front page of the New York Times this morning, Ramaswamy,
Speaker 2: you know, debate dominates debate front page of the Washington
Speaker 2: That's a good point, Romis Wammy, I mean the Trump
Speaker 2: New York Post, Ramaswami, our headlines, Ramaswamma.
Speaker 10: Trump was given him credit, though Trump was given press too.
Speaker 2: At that Look this is why I hated desantas in
Speaker 2: the first one, DeSantis didn't say one word about him.
Speaker 2: It was when DeSantis was getting winning Florida by twenty points.
Speaker 2: It's when DeSantis was actually getting better headlines than Trump
Speaker 2: was that it started to driving crazy. The one reason
Speaker 2: why I think it's a little bit different is Trump
Speaker 2: feels stronger today than he did about DeSantis several months
Speaker 2: ago when DeSantis was much nearer to him in the polls.
Speaker 2: And I think that Vivike does a much better job
Speaker 2: of actually playing ball. He's one of those where DeSantis
Speaker 2: clearly is irked by the Trump attacks. DeSantis also has
Speaker 2: hit back in like veiled ways. ROMs Pymy will never
Speaker 2: do that, and I think it's actually a correct move
Speaker 2: whenever it comes to running again for this hypothetical number
Speaker 2: two to number one scenario. So if there is a
Speaker 2: situation where Trump attacks him, it will be because of
Speaker 2: this earned media. But I don't see that happening just yet,
Speaker 2: because Vivek is still flashing the pan in terms of
Speaker 2: this number, this amount of media attention. Think about the
Speaker 2: amount that DeSantis has had for almost what two years,
Speaker 2: all throughout the COVID pandemic up until the GOP primary.
Speaker 3: Viveke hasn't had anywhere close to that.
Speaker 2: It would have to reach that level for him to
Speaker 2: begin to regard him as a serious threat.
Speaker 12: Look, I just look at vivec as the Republican version
Speaker 12: of Pete buota Je. And I also look at him
Speaker 12: and even though I agree with you, his numbers will
Speaker 12: go up after this. You know, there was a moment
Speaker 12: when Ben Carson was leading in the Republican primary.
Speaker 10: There was a moment when.
Speaker 12: Herman Kane was There was a moment when Carly Fiorina
Speaker 12: had a good debate and led for two and a
Speaker 12: half seconds. So I look at it.
Speaker 10: I look at it kind of like that.
Speaker 12: And also I think, just final point, I know, I'm
Speaker 12: beaten up on the guy, but like he is so politicianing.
Speaker 12: And the whole thing about Republicans, which actually gave them
Speaker 12: a lot of credit for, is that they are much
Speaker 12: more likely than Democrats to go I don't want any
Speaker 12: of your politician nonsense.
Speaker 10: And I just I get that stench from the VEC
Speaker 10: and it just it. I don't see it. I don't
Speaker 10: see it.
Speaker 4: Emily.
Speaker 1: One thing I wanted to get from me specifically is
Speaker 1: the VAC and Ronda Santis both when they launched their
Speaker 1: campaigns all in on anti wokeness.
Speaker 4: That was the center of their pitch. That was the
Speaker 4: center of.
Speaker 1: DeSantis' like legislative agenda in Florida. Florida's Where Goes to Die?
Speaker 1: Vivek wrote the book like this was their thing. No
Speaker 1: one said a word about wokeness last night.
Speaker 3: We don't think it was said once. Do you remember.
Speaker 6: I think Nikko Haley said it once. I think she said,
Speaker 6: like there's some woke stuff happening in schools. I think
Speaker 6: it was like atty passed.
Speaker 1: But it was certainly wasn't a question, It wasn't a focus.
Speaker 1: Ronda Santis got pitched, pitched a question down the center
Speaker 1: about like tell us about education.
Speaker 12: Word did not come out of his mouth, you know
Speaker 12: CRT though he didn't mention that doesn't sure that's adjacent.
Speaker 10: It's adjacent.
Speaker 1: It's just think of Okay, just for comparison, remember when
Speaker 1: Silicon Valley Bank collapsed and they were like the wokeness,
Speaker 1: and discourse we were in was like, literally, you know
Speaker 1: what's wrong with the military, the wokeness? Every single problem
Speaker 1: it came back to wokeness. And then for that to
Speaker 1: be completely disappeared from the debate last night, they got
Speaker 1: the memo.
Speaker 4: This was not the thing that res cared about.
Speaker 6: So I think it is literally a memo. That would
Speaker 6: be my way is that they actually did focus groups
Speaker 6: and they've been pull testing this. And especially when you
Speaker 6: have really high inflation, when you have horrific wildfires of Maui,
Speaker 6: it is not going to look good to get on
Speaker 6: that stage and just start banging the wokeness drum over
Speaker 6: and over again, which to people and I'm actually really
Speaker 6: curious about this. I'd love to see numbers, especially the
Speaker 6: numbers that they clearly have behind the scenes, about wokeness
Speaker 6: if it has just start to start to feel like
Speaker 6: a cartoonish, empty type of rhetoric and as opposed to
Speaker 6: something that felt real in twenty twenty and twenty twenty one,
Speaker 6: when people were actually like reeling from what was happening
Speaker 6: in COVID schools, what was happening in big cities. It's
Speaker 6: just maybe feels stale to people now, and it maybe
Speaker 6: feels fake to people now, and so you have to
Speaker 6: find a different way to talk about it. And so
Speaker 6: I think that is a huge takeaway. You guys are
Speaker 6: completely right about that. I don't think anybody made a
Speaker 6: mistake by not laying in. I agree to wokeness. With
Speaker 6: that language, he can talk about critical race theory, but
Speaker 6: woke has just started to feel.
Speaker 2: What I'll Backkyle up on is I thought Desanta's was
Speaker 2: the best version of himself last night, as in he
Speaker 2: was constantly talking about He's like, I'm the governor. I'm
Speaker 2: the governor one of these popular states. I actually did this.
Speaker 2: You know, Florida, we have record, little crimer. Everything was
Speaker 2: about governance and experience and going to his political record.
Speaker 2: I really appreciated that version of him because I've always
Speaker 2: thought that was his strongest thing. He's like, listen, people
Speaker 2: moved to Florida because of my leadership. End of story.
Speaker 2: I want to turn America.
Speaker 15: You know.
Speaker 2: I want to give that same dream to everybody else.
Speaker 2: I think there's a lot going on. I don't necessarily
Speaker 2: if I want America to be Florida. But that's like,
Speaker 2: let's put that aside. The point being that that's a
Speaker 2: very strong message that I think both is a GOP
Speaker 2: and a general electorate message that DeSanto was disabled to convey.
Speaker 12: Yeah, I mean I think it was solid. I think
Speaker 12: he was only one who didn't get a glove laid
Speaker 12: on him.
Speaker 10: He was in and out quick. He got a bunch
Speaker 10: of big applause lines.
Speaker 12: And actually I was surprised after the debate when they
Speaker 12: released you know who talked the most? I think he
Speaker 12: came in third, which I was like, I didn't even
Speaker 12: realize he talked that much.
Speaker 2: He got to aunt Hence Vivac and the Pence Vive
Speaker 2: Christie and then then Santas.
Speaker 12: Yeah, yeah, but to your point, like, yeah, what happened.
Speaker 12: I thought wokeness was the number one problem in the country.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but they happen.
Speaker 10: You didn't bring up the number on problem country.
Speaker 1: Basically, what happened is Ron DeSantis leaned all the way
Speaker 1: into that and his polls.
Speaker 10: Went, Oh, that's exactly right. Maybe, but we have such
Speaker 10: good message discipline. These guys flip on a dime. Man's
Speaker 10: this is going to sound so really weird.
Speaker 6: But Jennifer Hannison came out this week saw that and
Speaker 6: criticized culture. Yeah, it's like twenty twenty three, and everyone shrugs.
Speaker 6: If she had done that, like one of the world's
Speaker 6: biggest movie stars, one of the world's biggest TV stars
Speaker 6: coming out and being like, listen, I think cancel culture,
Speaker 6: Like what is it? Maybe it goes a little too far.
Speaker 6: That would have been headlines for days. She would have
Speaker 6: had to put out an apology, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 3: Can I say what was so annoying about that quote?
Speaker 2: She said quote, I'm so sick of cancel culture, and
Speaker 2: then she goes, I'll probably get canceled for safe.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I was like, I was like, shut up, Jennifer, Okay,
Speaker 3: even know she said you.
Speaker 10: Made a joke in nineteen ninety seven. I'm against for.
Speaker 2: The Morning Show season three. I was there for season one.
Speaker 2: Season two is like, I think it's a little ife.
Speaker 6: Season three.
Speaker 3: I'm not sure anybody asked.
Speaker 6: I see a lot of you guys in the morning.
Speaker 10: The only thing that you're.
Speaker 2: Correctly getting is that people get bitchy and annoyed when
Speaker 2: they have to wake up early morning for this job.
Speaker 3: That's a whole lot of me too.
Speaker 1: So let me tell you guys some numbers. This is
Speaker 1: from Jail Partners and the Daily Mail. They did you
Speaker 1: know quick poll last night after the debate of who
Speaker 1: won and who lost, and partly I want to get
Speaker 1: from you guys We've talked about the vague a lot.
Speaker 4: We talked about Ronda Santis a lot.
Speaker 1: I want to get from you all of the sort
Speaker 1: of also rans if you thought anyone stood down? So
Speaker 1: who in your review performed best in the debate of
Speaker 1: Republican voters? Twenty eight percent said Viveke That was number one,
Speaker 1: but very closely behind him Number two Rondo Sandus twenty seven,
Speaker 1: number three, Mike Pence, number four, Tim Scott, number five,
Speaker 1: Nikki Haley, Next is Chris Christy, then Doug Asa, and
Speaker 1: then at nine percent, don't know, did you?
Speaker 4: What do you guys think of those numbers?
Speaker 1: And I'm curious, like I said about some of the
Speaker 1: also rans, because I personally thought Nikki Haley did herself
Speaker 1: some favors and she exceeded my expectations since the beginning
Speaker 1: of campaigns.
Speaker 4: And she launched, she's kind of disappeared.
Speaker 1: I thought she reasserted herself and you had a good
Speaker 1: exchange with Viveke and also was very strong on her
Speaker 1: views on abortion.
Speaker 4: What did, Kyle, What did you think in terms of
Speaker 4: also rans? Anyone stand out to.
Speaker 12: Yeah, So here's my breakdown of it. Bergham and Asa
Speaker 12: barely exist. They should have been asleep. They would have
Speaker 12: been more productive. Ace's eye popped halfway through to the
Speaker 12: May it was bloodshot. Red Burgham was high as balls
Speaker 12: on percocet, which that's what's up.
Speaker 10: Live your best life.
Speaker 4: But he had it because he had didn't have a
Speaker 4: pocket constitution.
Speaker 12: He had a pocket constitution. He also had a torn
Speaker 12: achilles too, so there was a lot going on there.
Speaker 12: But those guys they barely exist. Pence was way more
Speaker 12: aggressive than I expected and way more high energy. But
Speaker 12: you know, he also his super religiosity came out. I
Speaker 12: think Pence is also incredibly politician. He had moments where
Speaker 12: it was like, oh, that's such a politician line.
Speaker 4: The sanctimonious.
Speaker 10: Yeah, totally.
Speaker 6: It's like the Marshall Sorkins thing that you were talking about.
Speaker 10: He practiced it. It's like he practiced some of those
Speaker 10: lines in the mirror. I said in front of God.
Speaker 2: I think that's actually that means oh really genuinely, that's
Speaker 2: kind of Oh that's interesting that which is why it's
Speaker 2: so weirdly more authentic.
Speaker 6: But it's very similar on and off. Yeah.
Speaker 12: I also thought there were moments where he was having
Speaker 12: a legit identity crisis. On stage when he's trying to
Speaker 12: explain January sixth, It's like, who are you trying to
Speaker 12: convince her?
Speaker 10: I did the right thing. I did the right thing.
Speaker 10: Like it was very it was very needy.
Speaker 12: It seemed like he wanted the audience as approve for
Speaker 12: his like whole January sixth stick. I think Nicky Haley
Speaker 12: agree with you. I think she's one of the winners
Speaker 12: of the debate. I think her numbers are going to
Speaker 12: go up. She did way better than I. First of all,
Speaker 12: I expected nothing of Nicki Haley at all. I find
Speaker 12: her incredibly boring. She's a donor creation. But then when
Speaker 12: she got up there, she started throwing some haymakers. I
Speaker 12: was like, okay, Nikki, so she I think she did
Speaker 12: a decent job. Tim Scott did better than I thought,
Speaker 12: but he has no juice, so it doesn't really matter.
Speaker 12: Christy did a mediocre performance, but everybody was against him,
Speaker 12: everybody on stage, everybody in the crowd. He had tough odds,
Speaker 12: and that's that's pretty much everyone.
Speaker 4: You miss Perry Johnson being on this loss.
Speaker 3: I miss Larry Elder.
Speaker 10: I get a segment. I think Larry got screwed.
Speaker 3: I don't know about it. I haven't looked at it.
Speaker 12: I looked into it, and it looks like because he
Speaker 12: used a Rasmussen poll and they told him after the fact,
Speaker 12: you're not allowed to use a Rasmus in pole.
Speaker 2: It's like you guys use Rasmusten poles all the time.
Speaker 2: It's a good point, actually, Emily, final thoughts, what do
Speaker 2: you think?
Speaker 6: Yeah, so, first of all, I thought it was hilarious
Speaker 6: that AESA was bragging about being the former head of
Speaker 6: the DEA while looking blazed. Anyway, I just actually I
Speaker 6: think a big takeaway from those numbers is this is
Speaker 6: a huge loss for Tim Scott, who has been banking
Speaker 6: on doing very well in the debates. There's actually a
Speaker 6: lot of money behind him, which is not surprising because
Speaker 6: he's on the Banking Committee, but there's a decent amount
Speaker 6: of money. He's really been working on an infrastructure in
Speaker 6: Iowa in those early states, and to I think flop,
Speaker 6: he didn't just do well, he actually was a little
Speaker 6: less than that he was. It was a little less
Speaker 6: than solid or baseline, because there were times when he
Speaker 6: was just like pushing so hard to speak, and there
Speaker 6: were times when it was like he paused after being
Speaker 6: asked a question.
Speaker 4: It was just it comfortable moments for him. I thought, yeah,
Speaker 4: nothing like horrendous. But he needed to have the Nick
Speaker 4: Haley night exactly, especially.
Speaker 2: When everyone's running for such a small lane. He's like,
Speaker 2: you've got to dominate that man.
Speaker 6: He needed that. He needed to have Nicky Haley or
Speaker 6: Pence where he was injecting himself confidently into the conversation
Speaker 6: and taking some of those big exchanges in a way
Speaker 6: that was actually appealing to those kind of Pence type
Speaker 6: that that lane, that never Trump lane. He really needed
Speaker 6: to hammer it, and he just didn't, despite the fact
Speaker 6: that he does have a lot of money behind him
Speaker 6: and there is there are resources invested in him, so
Speaker 6: to not even do baseline well at a debate is
Speaker 6: a pretty big one.
Speaker 1: Well, and that's actually a great point because the donors
Speaker 1: are shopping around her. Yeah right, they were going to
Speaker 1: be behind DeSantis. They're kind of like, eh, this didn't
Speaker 1: really work out. We didn't love your answers on Ukraine
Speaker 1: and on abortion and other things.
Speaker 4: They've been shopping.
Speaker 1: They've been thinking about Glenn Younkin, and you know, if
Speaker 1: they go to sleep at night or whatever. I think
Speaker 1: out of last night's debate, the donors are gonna be
Speaker 1: taking a big look at Nikki Hiley and they've always
Speaker 1: been had in a finished for her. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: she has the right ideological positioning for them. She's trying
Speaker 1: to moderate on abortion. She you know, has the Neokon
Speaker 1: view on Ukraine. Like she's in the right places ideologically.
Speaker 1: And I think they'll look last night at her performance
Speaker 1: and say, oh there's something here, and she might be
Speaker 1: the next like donor flavor of the moment, which is,
Speaker 1: you know, that's the thing that gives you money, that
Speaker 1: keeps you in the fight, that gives you positive Fox
Speaker 1: News headlines and Wall Street Journal headlines and whatever. So
Speaker 1: it's definitely a thing that matters, doesn't get you to
Speaker 1: the presidency.
Speaker 2: Now, Yeah, big winner was Paul Singer there in that debate.
Speaker 2: All Right, I agree with you the best.
Speaker 12: I don't feel like it matters though, Yeah twenty sixteen
Speaker 12: all over again.
Speaker 3: You're probably right.
Speaker 2: Okay, guys, we have to go, Thank you so much.
Speaker 2: Incredible conversation here. We hope everybody enjoyed it. We've got
Speaker 2: the debate special going on. Take advantage of that. If
Speaker 2: you're able to Breakingpoints dot Com Otherwise, we will see
Speaker 2: you all next week.