Speaker 1: Welcome to All the Smoke, a production of The Black
Speaker 1: Effect and our Heart Radio and partnership with Showtime. Welcome
Speaker 1: back All the Smoke season three. That what's up, bro, Man,
Speaker 1: I'm crump Man my ball on the show today. Man, Man,
Speaker 1: hey man. We've been trying to get this dude for
Speaker 1: a minute. It's just no fingerprints, no evidence. It's hard
Speaker 1: to track this man, damn. But he finally let us
Speaker 1: throw a net around him. Man. Both of our teammates
Speaker 1: are brothers. Great player, but just a better person. Welcome
Speaker 1: to the show. Jamal Crawford, Hey, y'all was trying to
Speaker 1: get me. I was trying to get y'all. I've been
Speaker 1: looking for y'all. Time to looking for you. You've been
Speaker 1: looking for me. Man, he is here. He's here with
Speaker 1: a little bit of facial hair too, he said, he
Speaker 1: let it grow out. Now you know, he don't have
Speaker 1: to fool him no more. Yeah, I ain't got a trick.
Speaker 1: They know what it is now. Yeah, it's O triple
Speaker 1: O G status now. I mean my fucking twenty years
Speaker 1: in the league. Definitely. We had I t back um
Speaker 1: at the end of season two and we actually called
Speaker 1: you during he called you during the show. Like I said,
Speaker 1: this has been highly anticipated to finally get you to
Speaker 1: sit down with us. I wish we were in person.
Speaker 1: At some point we'll get you in person. Were probably
Speaker 1: gonna come funk with you in the proem in the summertime.
Speaker 1: But it's just good. It's just good to have you, man,
Speaker 1: it's good for you to be here. We wouldn't get
Speaker 1: to a show if he was in person because you
Speaker 1: know how you like the tip of niggas laughing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we would have got through that positive energy. Man, I
Speaker 1: got energy now. I mean, I've been a fan of
Speaker 1: y'all show man from day one, like for real fan.
Speaker 1: I've watched all your episodes from Kimgriffe Junior to Steph
Speaker 1: to lou Will to I t Too, Everybody to everybody
Speaker 1: Fat Joe. I've watched everybody like I've I've been one
Speaker 1: of the biggest supporters and y'all making it look so
Speaker 1: good man, It's it's so big for our culture. It's
Speaker 1: almost like you know how drip Champs is when they
Speaker 1: when they pay how I mentioned show love to the ones.
Speaker 1: It's been the game for a while. It's the it's
Speaker 1: the basketball version, right and y'all do the dopest ship.
Speaker 1: So I'm exciting, you know, I appreciate that. Brow first
Speaker 1: time meeting Stack, do you remember that? What were your
Speaker 1: thoughts the first time meeting him? I remember the first
Speaker 1: time I saw him that I can remember. He was
Speaker 1: with he was with this what's your home? You would
Speaker 1: spurs that? Oh three, yeah, it was all three. I
Speaker 1: think that was the first time I really remember he
Speaker 1: was as cool as fuck hood as soon as our
Speaker 1: song like reminded me of of of how we grew up,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Like so it was just
Speaker 1: that that natural like love for each other. That's the
Speaker 1: first time I've ever really seeing them, seeing him and
Speaker 1: then getting the story and obviously playing with him, but
Speaker 1: that was later on down the line. But I remember
Speaker 1: he was in Jersey. We threw that crazy lots of stuff,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Just so I've always been
Speaker 1: a fan of his, just how he moved and had
Speaker 1: his game like he had that he had that O
Speaker 1: g old Man game that you couldn't do nothing with
Speaker 1: almost how Paul Pierce plays, and you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: guys like that. Every time we played each other, we
Speaker 1: should always talk about how we wanted to play on
Speaker 1: the same team and play together, you know, talk about that,
Speaker 1: talking about that every time we saw were talking about that.
Speaker 1: We gotta play together, we gotta played And it finally
Speaker 1: happened to Golden State and he was one the first
Speaker 1: year by saying when I got there and it was
Speaker 1: an in between transition, we couldn't be that. We believe,
Speaker 1: you know, Matt how y'all had it rocking. But Stack
Speaker 1: with Stack in Monte and Goose with the Lynch fans there.
Speaker 1: So just to come there. That's the first time I
Speaker 1: came in and it was sunny outside when I woke
Speaker 1: up from practice. My damn seven o'clock and sunny. I've
Speaker 1: been the dog like this is cool, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. So it was just it was a rough
Speaker 1: period with that, but I love the bet even though
Speaker 1: showtime you smell that popcorns popping, you know that popcorn
Speaker 1: pop jack, you know what that popicam parts out that
Speaker 1: the blood star good. We could hauld him shake out
Speaker 1: there after that it's trying to rock. Hey, that popcorning
Speaker 1: for everybody. We know that, we know that it's not
Speaker 1: it's not Let's talk about your upbringing and written Washington,
Speaker 1: right outside of Seattle. How did you first fall in
Speaker 1: love with the game and how was y'all bringing? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I first love with the game because my dad. A
Speaker 1: lot of people don't know if my dad played at
Speaker 1: University of Oregon. Kevin loves dad. So I've been around
Speaker 1: the game since I was too Like I had a
Speaker 1: basketball wherever I went, wherever. Everybody in the in the
Speaker 1: area would tell you, like, I'll be the kid dripping
Speaker 1: the ball coming down the street. I see somebody and
Speaker 1: I shake them. They look back like he's crazy? Is
Speaker 1: he doing for real? For real? Then even going to
Speaker 1: work one of the office building, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: I would take the ball over to the mall. I
Speaker 1: take it to the movie theater if I was going
Speaker 1: to sleep, you know what I mean. Like the balls
Speaker 1: have been with me is a carry on I had
Speaker 1: in the plane and everything. So I've just been around
Speaker 1: the game forever and just always dream and dream about
Speaker 1: being in the NBA. So it was it's a crazy,
Speaker 1: crazy thing. And people would tell you used to be
Speaker 1: the kid whin the Chicago Pools breakaways because of Michael
Speaker 1: Jordan's nineteen years old, Like people around a community and
Speaker 1: tell you a Jamaal. You always had the ball and
Speaker 1: that's Kennedy and he hath the ball with who did
Speaker 1: you adalyize? Oh m, it wasn't even close like he
Speaker 1: he was. He was the one that allows you to dream.
Speaker 1: And that's why I said about great players, like there's
Speaker 1: great players and some of the greatest players and they cold.
Speaker 1: We all pay homage, But you look m J and
Speaker 1: he allowed you to dream. It was like you almost
Speaker 1: saw you could hear some smooth jazz or some some
Speaker 1: song players here when you watched them play, because he
Speaker 1: was just something different, you know what I mean. So
Speaker 1: I loved him. I loved Magic, loved loved Isaiah. I
Speaker 1: was seen as I got older, I was seen Kobe Penny,
Speaker 1: uh Team, Matt Grant Hill, Kevin Guard that it was
Speaker 1: like my favorite g P obviously, so yeah mhm, Michael
Speaker 1: one Mike move for sure. Everybody like yeah, yeah cold.
Speaker 1: If you played at random, Beach High produced a number
Speaker 1: of players such as Doug Kristy, Nate Robinson, Kevin Porter
Speaker 1: of Deyante Mary. Who are your teammates? You got any
Speaker 1: fun stories around the time when he was playing there?
Speaker 1: Nate Nate was my the one I played with, so
Speaker 1: Doug was ten years ahead of us, and then Nate
Speaker 1: was in the same errors to me. So I was
Speaker 1: a senior, he was a freshman, and Nate was the
Speaker 1: same way he is right now, Like six in the morning,
Speaker 1: six in the morning, condition everybody like, man, what we're
Speaker 1: doing here? Names up there, laughing, getting everybody in trouble,
Speaker 1: running around after the food. So I remember one game.
Speaker 1: I remember one game Nate threw me a live and
Speaker 1: it was it was a badass live and ain't the
Speaker 1: way I should have caught it. But you know, sometimes
Speaker 1: you thought the bad lives that created the best jumps,
Speaker 1: and so he threw the live. I had stretched all
Speaker 1: the way back and I got it, and it's like
Speaker 1: I thought I was gonna fall forward. I just felt
Speaker 1: all off thounds and I dumped it and they was laughed.
Speaker 1: Set you a ball. I was like, damn, I feel
Speaker 1: like I did the summer. So I never do that again.
Speaker 1: So I just stay. I kept my game on the ground.
Speaker 1: After that, I was like, they don't cool, You're crazy
Speaker 1: native a problem food man, a food time, the little
Speaker 1: walking muscle. Yes, yeah, yeah, you don't get hurt. If
Speaker 1: anybody I'll tell people all the time. If anybody could
Speaker 1: have played football, is Nate motherfucking yeah? So Stack he was.
Speaker 1: He was basketball players, State Player of your his senior
Speaker 1: football State player of the Year, and owned the record
Speaker 1: for the hurdles and track all the same year. Like
Speaker 1: he really could have did anything he wants to do. Yeah. No,
Speaker 1: I say he's one of the greatest athletes ever ever
Speaker 1: ever by farm. You led the Vicers to capture the
Speaker 1: nine Washington and Scholastic state championship. What was that moment
Speaker 1: like for you? I know, I want to stay championship
Speaker 1: in high school and nothing. There's not a better feeling
Speaker 1: than winning the state championship with your whole family, that
Speaker 1: your whole neighborhood. You know what I mean? Sad he
Speaker 1: was the best in high school? How was that like
Speaker 1: for you? Yeah? And I wanted to state championship? Was
Speaker 1: the best basketball feeling even to this day. And it's
Speaker 1: crazy because a lot of people don't know this. I
Speaker 1: ran away from home when I was in l A.
Speaker 1: So I was with my dad from thirteen and sixteen,
Speaker 1: and I ran away from l A to come back
Speaker 1: to Seattle, and so my mom and dad was never together.
Speaker 1: I was either with one or with the other one.
Speaker 1: And so when I came back at sixteen, I went
Speaker 1: to the gym immediately and everybody was like, damn, all
Speaker 1: was back. But I left five nine. I came back
Speaker 1: at six four six five, right, and so I had
Speaker 1: the same handle and everything, so they're like damn. So
Speaker 1: when I was going from gym and gym, I was like,
Speaker 1: where's nobody playing that? Wis? You know? What's the what's
Speaker 1: the house flus? That was my mixtape? If I was
Speaker 1: the wrapping those my mixtapes, I'm build the bus everywhere
Speaker 1: I call the same social media, so building the bus,
Speaker 1: building the bus, building the bus, then finally the bus
Speaker 1: built so much, I'll start playing the program will Christi's
Speaker 1: program at the time, Boom and still my mixtape circle.
Speaker 1: Now you know I'm going on small tours. I'm doing
Speaker 1: the House of Blues, I'm doing all that. So that's crazy.
Speaker 1: Average thirty Average thirty with Doug a sixteen year old
Speaker 1: me and only Dug Grand was the two high school
Speaker 1: players playing. I'm playing against David stotterb I don't want
Speaker 1: to cut you off, Doug Grand to talk about it,
Speaker 1: finish your story and then we go back and talk
Speaker 1: about Dougrand but go ahead, all right for sure. So
Speaker 1: that's my that's my House of Blues, you know, that's
Speaker 1: my that's my family Fund Center, and it was my
Speaker 1: ESPN Zone concerts. So I'm doing that. I'm killing now.
Speaker 1: The buzzes grew so much as high school. So high school,
Speaker 1: I'm like, and I don't even see all of it.
Speaker 1: I wasn't playing against Damon Stout and Shaun Kimper, you
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. So for me, I wasn't trying
Speaker 1: to average number. I was trying to win the state championship.
Speaker 1: And they became such an event. That's when Gary Page,
Speaker 1: Sean kim They're coming to my high school games, like
Speaker 1: coming to watch me. I think King Riffey Jr. Came
Speaker 1: to one because the state the state term. It was
Speaker 1: at the Kingdom when they played at and sixty thousand
Speaker 1: people came up before they spanned. And I was trying
Speaker 1: to put on the show every single night. Like I
Speaker 1: became kind of like a celebrity and not like a
Speaker 1: shouting shake Cotton. But you know how shake Cotton was
Speaker 1: in l A, Like yeah, but that's that's how it
Speaker 1: was in Seattle, Like even with the Sonics and college kids.
Speaker 1: I was probably top three or four most popular basketball
Speaker 1: player in the whole state, and so the budge just
Speaker 1: took off, and then winning the state championship capped everything.
Speaker 1: That's the talk about Doug Wrnd. I got a chance
Speaker 1: to play with. He was a motherfucking monster. Talk to me.
Speaker 1: It's a little bit of people that don't know Doug
Speaker 1: Wren shout out Doug. Doug. Doug was so cold, like
Speaker 1: people think I was the first person to put the
Speaker 1: state on like naturally he was Dug. He was the
Speaker 1: first person to go to a U and blow up
Speaker 1: ABCD ABC D can't blow up And people was like, damn,
Speaker 1: you all got players out there. So he kind of
Speaker 1: helped open the door to a basketball for this area.
Speaker 1: And then I came the next year and kind of
Speaker 1: kicked the door open as will, but he put it
Speaker 1: on the map. And Doug such a problem, so competitive,
Speaker 1: he was so good, but he was being like he
Speaker 1: was being asshole too. He was mean and ship in
Speaker 1: a competitive way, you know what I'm saying. So maybe
Speaker 1: he may be better. He may be sharp and not
Speaker 1: know him since I was a kid, but he was
Speaker 1: dominating and We had two different games, but I think
Speaker 1: I would like to say we made each other better.
Speaker 1: And Doug shout to do. He's the best player I'll
Speaker 1: play against when I came back in high school. Boy
Speaker 1: far slap him close. He should have been the NBA played.
Speaker 1: How medios he wants to Definitely he was tough man.
Speaker 1: He was tough obviously speaking on Doug, we spoke on
Speaker 1: Nate Doug, I mean, Doug Christie. You guys just have
Speaker 1: a breeding ground for talent out there. Um, what is it?
Speaker 1: Is it in the water. It's just that's all you
Speaker 1: guys do, stay out of troublous hoop. Like you guys
Speaker 1: have a list of credible, credible I mean credible NBA names. Um,
Speaker 1: what was it like coming up with those guys and
Speaker 1: then everyone kind of outside of you know, Doug Renny
Speaker 1: just mentioned it pretty much making it to the league
Speaker 1: and played against each other, but you did played against
Speaker 1: each other for a long time already. Yeah, to me,
Speaker 1: it's starting with Doug Christie. Like Doug's the one that
Speaker 1: set the whole player because when he saw me at
Speaker 1: sixteen and he's like, all right, you can work out.
Speaker 1: So remember I just came from l a, but I
Speaker 1: ran away to being ineligible me varsity is a freshman
Speaker 1: couldn't play because I didn't have the grades. And then
Speaker 1: I come back and I had this proceed and you
Speaker 1: could make it. Maybe at the gym you could workout.
Speaker 1: I didn't have Doug's number. I didn't want a dollar
Speaker 1: from like teaching me how to get it myself. So
Speaker 1: if he told me to be at the gym at
Speaker 1: seven o'clock and the gym was forty five minutes away,
Speaker 1: I drive a car that with no license place, I
Speaker 1: catched the bus, whatever it was, I would beat him
Speaker 1: to the gym. I'd be out there waiting for HI
Speaker 1: when he pulled up. So he's like, damn your kids serious,
Speaker 1: I'm helping. That was the first person I've seen have
Speaker 1: a hand held phone, row to take care of his body,
Speaker 1: incle weights on and drills and ship he's doing. I'm like, man,
Speaker 1: if he if he can show me the way, like
Speaker 1: this guy, this professionalism, if he can show me the
Speaker 1: way and it changed my life. If I make it,
Speaker 1: I'm into the next thing for the same thing, for
Speaker 1: the next generation, you know what I mean. And that's
Speaker 1: how kind of like really snowball whether it's be Roy
Speaker 1: or I T or Will or Tone or Dejonta or
Speaker 1: Kevin Porter, whoever it is, we all know there's an
Speaker 1: eighth grade that can call us. He could reach out
Speaker 1: and Texas actly being like, yo, I'm having I'm struggling
Speaker 1: with this part of my game is actually responsible him.
Speaker 1: So I know what is doing a backpack way, Fifteen
Speaker 1: of us are gonna be the support him. If I'm
Speaker 1: doing a program, all two of them gonna be your plans.
Speaker 1: So that's all. That's what makes our community special. It's
Speaker 1: not it's not it's not that it's not the crab
Speaker 1: in the bucket itality. It's like, no, you made your
Speaker 1: job is to reach out and get the next one
Speaker 1: for him, But and he just keeps going, that's not
Speaker 1: supposed to be, bro. Yeah, that's supposed to be. Yeah,
Speaker 1: But that's one of the rare places that it actually happens,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Like there's talent everywhere, but
Speaker 1: for everyone or whatever reasons, it's just not like it's
Speaker 1: supposed to be. But it's beautiful to see. I mean,
Speaker 1: the way you guys really go out and support each
Speaker 1: other is is still to this day is it's a
Speaker 1: beautiful day. Appreciate it. Yeah, that's what And we we
Speaker 1: know we have something special too, and we just know
Speaker 1: you always be right here for young one's coming up.
Speaker 1: And that's the only thing is we don't want nothing
Speaker 1: from you. Just keep doing it for the same the
Speaker 1: next generation. You you had one of the best crossovers
Speaker 1: this league's ever seen, spoke very highly Ai Tim Hardaway,
Speaker 1: Isaiah Thomas. Uh your ball handling magic, Where did that
Speaker 1: come from? Imagination? Like being in the backyard a lot
Speaker 1: by myself. Me and my dad used to get into
Speaker 1: it because he'd be like, because he didn't make it right,
Speaker 1: and so he thought he should have made it. He
Speaker 1: was all the city in l A. And at that
Speaker 1: time he went to Dorsety High School. So if you
Speaker 1: all sit in l A at that time, it was
Speaker 1: like he was an All American because the best players
Speaker 1: right there in l A or you know, so he
Speaker 1: thought so he thought he should have made it. When
Speaker 1: he didn't, it broke his heart. So when I'm coming
Speaker 1: up now and I'm chasing my dream and doing my thing,
Speaker 1: He's like, man, you gotta have more life than basketball.
Speaker 1: And I mean him was kind of a posit a
Speaker 1: little bit. So I'm like, why are you not supporting
Speaker 1: my dream? But he's telling me from a grown perspective, like,
Speaker 1: now the chance you're making a pretty slim so you
Speaker 1: gotta have something else you're rolling with. As I got older,
Speaker 1: I understood that, but at the time, I'm like, man,
Speaker 1: so I'll be in the backyard by myself. I'll be
Speaker 1: down the street by myself. And I watched AI. I
Speaker 1: watched Isaiah Thomas, I watched him part Away Michael movie,
Speaker 1: I watched all them dudes, Baron Davis, right, all them dude,
Speaker 1: Steve Francis, and I never stopped taking notes at that time.
Speaker 1: Everybody was on the left right cross over a I
Speaker 1: was doing it. And so I'm like, all right, people
Speaker 1: are catching on that. Everybody to do the AI crossing.
Speaker 1: How I gotta do something different. So I'm started going
Speaker 1: behind my back, like okay, it's gonna be harder for
Speaker 1: you to give it's behind my back. Then I'm sarty, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna behind my back twice. Okay, I'll do behind
Speaker 1: my back twice to a cross. Okay, behind my back
Speaker 1: twice to a cross. And so now now I'm just
Speaker 1: counter or whatever you do and I feel like I
Speaker 1: got full control of the ball. Like when I drive
Speaker 1: the ball, I'm not thinking anything. I'm like, Okay, if
Speaker 1: I don't know what I'm gonna do, there's no way
Speaker 1: you can do it, you know what I'm saying. So,
Speaker 1: but but I'm one with the ball. Like when you walk,
Speaker 1: you're not thinking left foot right, You're just walking. That's
Speaker 1: how I feel like I'm dribbling. I could lose the
Speaker 1: ball cross and put it into another cross like people
Speaker 1: see the Western Mathews move I did on him. I
Speaker 1: actually lost the ball then if you go back and
Speaker 1: watch it, I lost it for a s foot second
Speaker 1: and that's when he thought he could run up, and
Speaker 1: that's when I hitting with another move. You know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying. Yeah, So it's I just became one with
Speaker 1: the ball. That's all it was, and just imagination. It
Speaker 1: was crazy, y'all. My best moves this is no I
Speaker 1: promised to God. I'm not even bragg My best tien
Speaker 1: moves I have in my my back. I've never showed
Speaker 1: nobody because I was hoping I made an All Start
Speaker 1: names control about to tell the line, could you I was?
Speaker 1: I was hoping I made an All Star game. You
Speaker 1: was gonna bring them out. I was gonna bring him out.
Speaker 1: You know how back then if you made All Star name,
Speaker 1: Kobe had to wrap around the body the whole time.
Speaker 1: Team Mack threw it off the backboard like people have
Speaker 1: a signature play. I said, I got something. I got
Speaker 1: ten plays I never did before. Every time I get
Speaker 1: the ball, they better not guarding because every time I
Speaker 1: get the ball, every time down court, I'll bring out
Speaker 1: nothing to play. And that's what I was gonna do.
Speaker 1: I promised to God I hadn't all played out, that
Speaker 1: would have been crazy. But but it never happened. But
Speaker 1: it never happened, so it's just the boss now. They
Speaker 1: just I just playing myself so I could just hear him,
Speaker 1: you know, because they just ain't gonna see it be
Speaker 1: saved by nobody. The first person you hit with probably
Speaker 1: with your crossing the league. The first person I hit
Speaker 1: with the crossing the league. I'm trying to think, because
Speaker 1: I had to be comfortable enough to do it, because
Speaker 1: my year I didn't feel comfortable at all. Uh. I
Speaker 1: think you know who? I think I hit it. I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, that was a good move. I think
Speaker 1: I hit Tony Dillon it's my rookie year and I
Speaker 1: hit Tony deal and he was with Phoenix Phoenix at
Speaker 1: the time. It's right before All Star Break, and I
Speaker 1: hit him with a couple of crosses. It was just
Speaker 1: simple right to left stuff. But it was like it
Speaker 1: gave me confidence, like, Okay, you can do this, you
Speaker 1: can pull it off. So I think he was the
Speaker 1: first person I hate with across there. Shout out from
Speaker 1: Tony Depp, you got your you got two thousand one,
Speaker 1: you got your jersey retired in high school. Uh two
Speaker 1: eighteen introduced to the Hall of Fame. When you look
Speaker 1: back on it, obviously you said winning the state championship
Speaker 1: was one of your most prized possessions in your basketball career.
Speaker 1: When you look back on the body of work and
Speaker 1: then being rewarded and honored the way you have been,
Speaker 1: what's the first thing to come to mind? Thankful because
Speaker 1: that wasn't the that wasn't the the goal, right, Like
Speaker 1: it was just I was on a mission. Like I said,
Speaker 1: I had mix sape, I had chipless circuit. I got
Speaker 1: to the big stage and I just had to just
Speaker 1: keep going, Like the mission was I when I was
Speaker 1: a kid, I've never said this. When I was a
Speaker 1: I used to be like, man, I'll pay the NBA
Speaker 1: to play in the NBA. Like for me, it was
Speaker 1: never about none of that for real. I was like,
Speaker 1: I ain't got that for five hollars, but they can
Speaker 1: have it. I was gonna be on the big stage
Speaker 1: and play the best players in the world. So it
Speaker 1: was just like all the dream looking back, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, Like it was all a dream. It
Speaker 1: really was. It still tripping me out on people like, Man,
Speaker 1: you know I love watching you player. This is that
Speaker 1: I'm like, because that wasn't the goal, like the goals
Speaker 1: just to make it, and I would have paid them
Speaker 1: to play in the NBA. Yeah, talk about you said,
Speaker 1: everyone's really close knit. Um, whether you make it or
Speaker 1: don't make it, ever, you guys all support each other.
Speaker 1: You just hosted your twelfth annual Backpack UH Drive this
Speaker 1: past summer. What does it mean to you to be
Speaker 1: able to give back to your hometown the way you're
Speaker 1: doing so many different facets. That's another part that's crazy
Speaker 1: because I was already given back before I actually had
Speaker 1: anything really to give, Like it was just in my
Speaker 1: heart to do it. I remember one time I was
Speaker 1: walking down the street and I had, I think twenty
Speaker 1: dollars and there's some other street that was homeless, and
Speaker 1: I gave it to him. I didn't know where my
Speaker 1: next twenty dollars coming from, I mean high who, And
Speaker 1: I gave it to him and just kept moving. And
Speaker 1: I remember my sister told me, and she was like,
Speaker 1: you become a bigger version of it. You already were.
Speaker 1: Once you come into a lot of fame or a
Speaker 1: lot of money. You know, if you was an asshole,
Speaker 1: you canna be even bigger asshole now because you got
Speaker 1: one way to kind of stunt on people. If you
Speaker 1: were somebody who gave it was a giver, you'll give
Speaker 1: you the more you had, more an abundance. So for me,
Speaker 1: it took me a little while to give my foundation
Speaker 1: in place, but I was already doing that stuff. It was.
Speaker 1: It was dope about it for me. Out of every
Speaker 1: hundred things I do, they only report one of And
Speaker 1: to me, that's like the sign of really giving from
Speaker 1: your heart. It's not for the other stuff. Sometimes you
Speaker 1: got to do the other stuff can inspire people and
Speaker 1: get them, you know, get them to give as well.
Speaker 1: But I like to give an oonymously like that. So
Speaker 1: it's it's really really dope. That's that's it makes me happy. Honestly.
Speaker 1: I earned a Scotlish them to the University of Michigan, Yeah,
Speaker 1: and committed to play Brian ellerb. How was the recruiting
Speaker 1: process for you? Not any other schools that was interested
Speaker 1: in recruiting you besides Michigan. Yeah, so it was. It
Speaker 1: came down to Michigan. When I was kid, obviously, like
Speaker 1: I said, I was in the backyard shoes. If I
Speaker 1: make this shot, I remember, I'm not even illige with
Speaker 1: at the time, ninth grade. If I make this shot,
Speaker 1: I'm going to Michigan. If I make this shot, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna be in the NBA three to one, right, I'm
Speaker 1: making those shots at the time. But I'm it actually
Speaker 1: worked out like that, which is the craziest shit ever
Speaker 1: because there's a million kids doing that and it doesn't
Speaker 1: work out that way. So I'm just so blessed, and
Speaker 1: I always dream about going to Michigan from the Fab five, like,
Speaker 1: the five is everything to me. They changed everything from
Speaker 1: the from the ball heads, the bagging shorts, the Barbey's all,
Speaker 1: just the swagger they played with. I'm still not sure
Speaker 1: you'll see five true freshmen come from high school friends
Speaker 1: to the n C Double Championship and do it again sophomore.
Speaker 1: So I was messing rized and then I wanted to
Speaker 1: visit there. And when I went out committed early, I
Speaker 1: was like, dam don't want to Michigan, Like it was
Speaker 1: everything I thought, and they gave me Jadon Roses Locker,
Speaker 1: who's my favorite player at the five. I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: it's over with. So they came down to them Fresnel
Speaker 1: State with tart Uh yeah, it's hard Washington of course,
Speaker 1: and then U c l A. And I remember talking
Speaker 1: to Bed. I've never told this story. I remember talking
Speaker 1: to b D and I was like, bro, you're gonna leave,
Speaker 1: because you know he's at the time, he's a sophomore
Speaker 1: in college and he ended up leaving. I'm like, Dan,
Speaker 1: if he would have told me he was gonna leave,
Speaker 1: I wouldn't one to U c l A. You know,
Speaker 1: I've been playing with y'all and I've never spoke that's
Speaker 1: playing with y'all crazy to lose, to lose get you
Speaker 1: because y'all was wearing the blue IBN since at the time,
Speaker 1: I remember all that the shiny Ones yeah, and Steve,
Speaker 1: Steve lad was reproving me. Yeah, slone went to I
Speaker 1: would if I knew that, do what other schools does
Speaker 1: recruiting you. So it was it was Fresno State, Washington,
Speaker 1: u C, l A in Michigan. And like I said,
Speaker 1: at that A, you see, I kind of blew up.
Speaker 1: So I had I could have went a lot of places.
Speaker 1: And after that they was like, Okay, you're getting letters
Speaker 1: from Kentucky, now from Kansas, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: different places Louisville. But I really wasn't really considered him.
Speaker 1: I was either stay on the West coast or go
Speaker 1: to Michigan. At the start of Nice and Ninete season,
Speaker 1: he got six games to Spenser from the n C
Speaker 1: Double Layer. The retro actly rule that this high school
Speaker 1: living arrangement has breached the by laws a whole bunch
Speaker 1: of bullshit and big bullshit. Yeah yeah, what that was about, bro.
Speaker 1: So out here in Seattle, y'all know the tech world,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of people of money. There is a
Speaker 1: lot of people of money. And remember I just told
Speaker 1: you guys that my grades is messed up coming from
Speaker 1: from l A to Seattle. So when I got here,
Speaker 1: I started meeting people, and I met somebody who helped
Speaker 1: me with tutor in gave me clothes, like money for
Speaker 1: clothes and everything. He wasn't giving me money like hey,
Speaker 1: I want you to go to college. I want you
Speaker 1: I'm a program, none of that. So it wasn't like
Speaker 1: he was a booster or alumni or a program. It
Speaker 1: doesn't do a basketball period. And so the n c
Speaker 1: double A found that out when I was in college
Speaker 1: and they were like, yo, you're doing this in high
Speaker 1: school and like y'all, like I was very up front,
Speaker 1: like yeah, I got a tutor, I have much. You
Speaker 1: gave me some clothes, and so with that, they said
Speaker 1: I broke the rule of amateurism. It wasn't even rule
Speaker 1: at the time. So once they did, once they did
Speaker 1: their due diligence and they saw I was I was cool.
Speaker 1: They were like, okay, well we're gonna reinstate you right,
Speaker 1: but you gotta miss a certain amount of games because
Speaker 1: they had banned me from college basketball. I was banned
Speaker 1: from college basketball because I broke the room of amateurism
Speaker 1: in their eyes, and so they did all their due
Speaker 1: dealigen and state reinstated me, and at that time I
Speaker 1: put my name in the draft for crazy story. So
Speaker 1: we're about to play Michigan State. Our team is doing well,
Speaker 1: we're thirteen and four. I believe we're about to play
Speaker 1: Michigan State is being gaming. Digby tells doing it now,
Speaker 1: you know us coming into to college. Like Digby tells, like,
Speaker 1: we wanted to say you were diaper dandy, any of that, right,
Speaker 1: And so he's pumping me up before the game. I
Speaker 1: think Spike leaves at the game. It's a national TV game.
Speaker 1: I'm ready to go. I'm leading score, lead assists, lead
Speaker 1: my team in block. Leaving stills like you know, as
Speaker 1: a freshman. So they're like, okay, we're gonna play Michigan State.
Speaker 1: And Michigan State was nice as the footstone. So they
Speaker 1: won the championship that year. Mo Cles, Mo Pete, you know,
Speaker 1: Charlie Bell all there, and they it's in Michigan, it's packed.
Speaker 1: We get a chance to, you know, see how we
Speaker 1: match up. And they tell me two seconds for the
Speaker 1: game start, and they're like, also's gonna be one game.
Speaker 1: That one game turned into the season. I put my
Speaker 1: name in the draft, and I'm gonna tell y'all something crazy.
Speaker 1: I was not gonna leave after my freshman year. I
Speaker 1: only put my name in the draft, and they said
Speaker 1: you gotta come back early from some school. I said,
Speaker 1: Sething school. I just left two weeks ago. Oh so
Speaker 1: I said, all right, I got something for y'all. I
Speaker 1: wanna put my name in the draft. Now. You can't
Speaker 1: make me come back to some school because I'm going
Speaker 1: through this process. And so that's what happened. People thought
Speaker 1: I was crazy. I go to Chicago camp, tear it
Speaker 1: up for two days, go to Chicle camp late because
Speaker 1: I wasn't going. I'm like, I'm not going to my college.
Speaker 1: Coach was zero. My assistant coach, Curtis Town that candid
Speaker 1: shout him. He's like, come here, you're killing I come
Speaker 1: there day late. Still, the showing three days, don't play
Speaker 1: again afterwards ended up being a lot of in Michigan.
Speaker 1: Was history at that point. Damn, Yeah, that's crazy. I
Speaker 1: was gonna g I was gonna get in to how
Speaker 1: you came back and you had the Crawford crazies and
Speaker 1: what you came back. But yeah, if the if the
Speaker 1: you know I am was in I would have been
Speaker 1: making that was my question. That was gonna be my question.
Speaker 1: I mean with the movement you had, and like I said,
Speaker 1: this is from the internet. Really yeah, I mean the
Speaker 1: movement you had. What could you have done with this
Speaker 1: new n il rule all that killed it? Because I
Speaker 1: was because you gotta think Michigan's like it's it's world
Speaker 1: famous right the block, and people forget I was at
Speaker 1: school with David to Real, Larry Foote, Tom Braden, Like,
Speaker 1: I'm at school with those guys, and I'm one of
Speaker 1: the most popular players on campus. I have my own
Speaker 1: like you just alluded to, I have my own student section.
Speaker 1: So I was. I think I was the only player
Speaker 1: in the country besides like their team student section that
Speaker 1: had his own players section within that. And at the time,
Speaker 1: nobody's when we were head bands. I'm worried to college
Speaker 1: and it took off, so everybody had the Crawford crazy.
Speaker 1: That's crazy to you about that? The Crawford crazy. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know I probably would ate up with that one. Mmm.
Speaker 1: They wasn't ready for you, fan, No family came that
Speaker 1: Spruce Rachel, you know it's gonna hey my my, big my,
Speaker 1: big Holdie big Free. I got shot at him out.
Speaker 1: He's from Detroit, so he gave me a plan and like,
Speaker 1: you guys both know me. I'm very calculated. So hey,
Speaker 1: you had a plan, he said, Look, the first game
Speaker 1: you get on campus, this is where you show the
Speaker 1: people of Michigan that you can ball. They cut people
Speaker 1: on n armor. So I killed that game. I think
Speaker 1: I hit the game one shot. Then we played Detroit.
Speaker 1: Shout him Sean Phillips, he was on there and they
Speaker 1: just they just beat you on the player in the
Speaker 1: tournament the year before, ye before. Yeah, so he come back.
Speaker 1: He was like the college iverson, I get the game
Speaker 1: with him, block game with shouting them. So now I
Speaker 1: showed the college campus. I'll showed the people of Detroit
Speaker 1: and my dog big friends. Like, now you get to
Speaker 1: show the cable world. Remember at that time, it's the
Speaker 1: Big ten A CC Challenge. So we played Georgia Tech
Speaker 1: on TV. Jason Terry came in the games in Atlanta.
Speaker 1: I played well. I was player of the game, I think,
Speaker 1: and then he's like, all right down the stage, he's
Speaker 1: set for you. So now I played Duke on CBS,
Speaker 1: and that's when the whole country's watching because this is
Speaker 1: before the internet. So people on one off and sho
Speaker 1: I stood out. I had twenty seven and six against them,
Speaker 1: and coach Coach k Cans to me after the game
Speaker 1: was like, man, you had so many moves. You started
Speaker 1: doing his head like he did his head like the
Speaker 1: guy and he got games. You got so many moves. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so it was it was dope, man. But Big Fred
Speaker 1: gave me the blueprint on how to kind of take
Speaker 1: over college. Shout how big Fred? That was a blue
Speaker 1: little Yeah. It was me drafted by the Calves with
Speaker 1: the eight pick, but was traded to the Bulls with
Speaker 1: Chris mil I remember Chris rem Remember draftings Kenyan, Martin,
Speaker 1: Mike Miller, Die Miles Creer. That was my rookie year
Speaker 1: as well. Remember that's my year as well. I got drafted,
Speaker 1: I got graduated ninety six, got drafted ninety seven. But
Speaker 1: when over went overseas and bounce arounds manjuries and stuff,
Speaker 1: but came back and ended up having the same rook year.
Speaker 1: But talk about that being drafted and by the Calves
Speaker 1: are going to the Bulls. Hold on, Jack, It just
Speaker 1: came back to me. Then we played each other. You
Speaker 1: talk some releague. You was playing with the Grizzlies. Yes, Bro,
Speaker 1: that was the first time that I don't know why
Speaker 1: this came back to a matter of fact, back Jim
Speaker 1: and Jack was killing. That's when I first met Jack.
Speaker 1: That was the first official time I met him. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but yeah, I was crazy because you know how the
Speaker 1: speculation and being the draft thing, I didn't. I never
Speaker 1: thought i'd be in the draft room. I was in
Speaker 1: there recording Alexander shout out of courting and I was
Speaker 1: just on a visit to Fresne State the year before
Speaker 1: and he was the man. So to think of year later,
Speaker 1: we're the same. To think a year later and we're
Speaker 1: the same, Like draft from like, damn, let me here.
Speaker 1: I felt kind of out of place. I'm the youngest
Speaker 1: one in here. You know, all these dudes established a
Speaker 1: j guiden lea l I mean, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: Like my team Cleavesey dudes have done work in college.
Speaker 1: I played a half a year, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: So I was there listening really and it was like,
Speaker 1: you're gonna go here, you gonna go here, and like,
Speaker 1: we'll see how it plays out. Nobody hadn't be going
Speaker 1: top ten though, because you know, I'm later on the scene.
Speaker 1: So when I go top ten the day of the draft,
Speaker 1: is in Minnesota. I'm wearing Chicago. I got a Chicago
Speaker 1: Bulls shirt on Chicago Bulls shorts, um a bandana because
Speaker 1: I thought baby Ai. I had my Chris Ears chain
Speaker 1: on the Chris Ears bracelet and it just it just
Speaker 1: came out. Wh When I got drafted by Cleveland, I
Speaker 1: didn't think it was gonna happen because I hadn't ever
Speaker 1: worked out for Cleveland, you know what I mean. So
Speaker 1: I'm like, why they drafted me? I didn't. I didn't
Speaker 1: know how the trades working all that. I just saw
Speaker 1: the cameras come around and boom, the Clean count terslect
Speaker 1: Jamal Crawford. I say with every you know, how did
Speaker 1: my family all that? And get to David Stern and
Speaker 1: then started going to do interviews and after that, within
Speaker 1: fifteen minutes and said you've been traded to the Bulls.
Speaker 1: And I was like, ohh Like so they were gonna
Speaker 1: take me number seven regardless. But the cabs didn't know
Speaker 1: what the Bulls were gonna do, so they were like, hey,
Speaker 1: take take Jamal for us and we'll give you money,
Speaker 1: and you take men or take me in for us.
Speaker 1: We'll take wherever you want to give you money to
Speaker 1: the bulls. Like I said, we went win for us.
Speaker 1: So that's how I went down. Shout shout out Jerry
Speaker 1: Cross for that. Yeah, Hey, Courney Alexander, y'all, I don't
Speaker 1: know about cord exam. If you want to know Cornell Exadeas,
Speaker 1: go to your l A Fitness And the guy that's
Speaker 1: on the wall, that's Duncan on the wall, that's Courtney Alexander.
Speaker 1: That's that's really him. Hey, I didn't know that. And
Speaker 1: and and l f as they got a guy on
Speaker 1: the wall that's dunk and that is Cortney Alexander. No,
Speaker 1: I seen it ball and everything, I mean all time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's Hill. Hey he gets up. He used to get
Speaker 1: a four feet on the jump shot. It was crazy.
Speaker 1: He was he was cold blood. I think I think
Speaker 1: you touched on something that's pretty dope. Now, that's so odd,
Speaker 1: like you're the norm now, like kids leaving early as
Speaker 1: the norm, not even going to college. But you were
Speaker 1: in a draft and you mentioned all four years all
Speaker 1: American players, Like that's how the league was. Like these
Speaker 1: young players really wasn't coming in like you. Kind of
Speaker 1: you you had a similar situation that Kyrie did you
Speaker 1: guys both played maybe a handful of games and then bounced,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And that was that was
Speaker 1: back then when you did it, it wasn't happening me
Speaker 1: and Kyrie. Actually, so up until Kyrie I was I
Speaker 1: was the player that played the fewest amount of games
Speaker 1: to be drafted as high as I was. Kyrie played
Speaker 1: even less than I did, it was drafting higher. So
Speaker 1: you're right. When we were coming the league, we were
Speaker 1: like one of two, are one of three young guys,
Speaker 1: and we had all vets Like we we learned how
Speaker 1: to be pros by with pros around us, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. So that's what the league is missing
Speaker 1: now though, like they don't they don't value the vests
Speaker 1: like that ship. What's so at all? What's your vets?
Speaker 1: Who was your veste of Chicago? So my rookie year,
Speaker 1: we were the youngest team in the league, and in
Speaker 1: the second year with the youngest team again in the league.
Speaker 1: So the next year it was like uh Fred Bointberg,
Speaker 1: Rick Brunson, Greg Anthony, Charles Oakley, Um, you know those
Speaker 1: were like Ron Mercer and shout out Ron Mercer. Those
Speaker 1: were like the vets. Those were the vets. And then
Speaker 1: Scotty Scotty Pippen, and I'll played with him his last
Speaker 1: year in the league, in my last year in Chicago.
Speaker 1: But I learned how to you know, stop Eve McDonald's
Speaker 1: being on time, as young being on top, as young
Speaker 1: players getting there an hour earlier, you know, staying late.
Speaker 1: You gotta be last one the league, dressing in a
Speaker 1: certain way like That's when I learned to be a pro. Yeah. There.
Speaker 1: I used to be on the bus on the way
Speaker 1: to a game, arguing with some people back how on
Speaker 1: on the phone with the bust wrong. You know, that's
Speaker 1: not the way you do things, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: But I didn't know. I didn't know no better. I
Speaker 1: didn't even no better year. I didn't know no better. Yeah,
Speaker 1: tell me about the dynamic of having run and Elton
Speaker 1: Brown on the same tangwich. Oh man, I got some story.
Speaker 1: Let me tell your story. Oh my god, let me
Speaker 1: tell your story. Ron, and you know, both of y'all know,
Speaker 1: so we're playing and Ron sometimes, could you know? Ron
Speaker 1: could get on one and he came, he came. But
Speaker 1: he always liked me. He always took to me, no
Speaker 1: matter what are you doing and talk to me? So
Speaker 1: he came to practice that day and he said, Mom,
Speaker 1: I'm all one the day. He said, they brought in somebody,
Speaker 1: new player, I'm all one to day. I watch this.
Speaker 1: It was a ten day guy that had nothing to
Speaker 1: do with Ron. He wanted the threats Ron, not none
Speaker 1: of that, None of that. He said, I'm all one
Speaker 1: the day, Brong. He said, I'm all one to day.
Speaker 1: I said, all right, I said, what you gonna do,
Speaker 1: You'll see your on one. So he would start ah.
Speaker 1: He would scream, you run around and scream four times
Speaker 1: blocking people found people. Heart said, Tim, it got Tim
Speaker 1: Floyd got in his face. I've never told the story.
Speaker 1: Tim Floyd got in his face and sip, what's all
Speaker 1: this was? Ron was out of control, bro like, but
Speaker 1: I loved him. Shout out one. He put me on.
Speaker 1: He put me off a nearrow bread too, Yeah, he
Speaker 1: put bread and talk about talk about brand because before
Speaker 1: he tore his achilles. Elton Brand was one of the
Speaker 1: best power forwards in the game, hands out, without a doubt.
Speaker 1: He was. He was a walking twenty and ten like
Speaker 1: they showed me like his Rookie of Year campaign and
Speaker 1: they had a brand of soap. It was like a
Speaker 1: soap box and they had brand on it, twenty and
Speaker 1: ten on it. The one you can depend on, like
Speaker 1: he was walking twenty and ten. He's the one who
Speaker 1: can depend on. Yeah, he was twenty and ten no
Speaker 1: matter what, he just knew how to get it. Like
Speaker 1: he was a beast workerholic, always works always uh was
Speaker 1: in proving and he was smart. He was very seree
Speaker 1: bull as well with his talent. So he was problem.
Speaker 1: But people would never know about the Eldon brand. Like
Speaker 1: they shoot in this era. You know, shout out elm Man,
Speaker 1: shout out over there over there working on in the
Speaker 1: front office with the Sixers right now. But that motherfucker
Speaker 1: was a killer. Bro, here's the killer. It's still hard
Speaker 1: to believe that him, Ron and Llo was playing together
Speaker 1: in high school with that church at the church, John Propical,
Speaker 1: that's crazy at the church and Barkley I think was
Speaker 1: on there and those guys, Bro, they had had a squad. Okay,
Speaker 1: what was your welcome to the NBA moment your rookie
Speaker 1: in Chicago, we just talked about your bets when you
Speaker 1: get in the league. What was your what made you
Speaker 1: feel like you had got to them? But like the
Speaker 1: welcome to that first moment that you had. Oh, there's
Speaker 1: a couple of moments. The first one was the first
Speaker 1: preseason game. We're playing in New York and the Trull
Speaker 1: spree will. You know, at the time of the garden
Speaker 1: you can see the other team at the other of
Speaker 1: the tunnel, so at the time, you know, the Bulls
Speaker 1: come out and Spreewell that just came went to the
Speaker 1: finals there over there on the at the end, and
Speaker 1: I hear spree Ull saying, Okay, I'm relove it. What damn?
Speaker 1: I can feel it like I'm nervous already. I'm a rookie.
Speaker 1: Here goes free. And that was like the first first moment.
Speaker 1: And another moment was, uh, my rookie first game playing Sacramento,
Speaker 1: I'm a looting You pick with terrible, So what's the formula, right?
Speaker 1: If you're terrible a lot of pick, probably can play
Speaker 1: a lot they once you developed. I didn't play to
Speaker 1: the last minute of the game. My whole family is
Speaker 1: they are floball. And I played at the very last
Speaker 1: minute the game. Got two shots up though, made the
Speaker 1: first one, and got two shots up through made the
Speaker 1: first one, and that was like my my welcome to
Speaker 1: my damn, this is really his business. Like they just
Speaker 1: took me. That was my first moment, Like when they
Speaker 1: took me as a as a as a high draft pick.
Speaker 1: I think I'm gonna play a blowout and he puts
Speaker 1: me in like to mess with me because we got
Speaker 1: into it. He puts me in the last minute of
Speaker 1: the game, made my first shot. Though my dad was
Speaker 1: kissed too, by the way, but yeah, that was it.
Speaker 1: He had the O G stands. We kept pulling up
Speaker 1: his pants like ship, let me go tell that because
Speaker 1: this is crazy, you know, he had one of those going,
Speaker 1: but it was he was upset. I remember that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's funny and helf. So you're coming into a Bulls
Speaker 1: organization that just had one of the most dynamic and
Speaker 1: six eight year runs we'd ever seen. What was the
Speaker 1: organization like kind of you know, you said you played
Speaker 1: with Pitt your first year. You know you played with
Speaker 1: Pip before he left. What was the light kind of
Speaker 1: ending that era and coming into this new, younger era
Speaker 1: of the Bulls. It was amazing because the the front office,
Speaker 1: Jerry Cross had a lot of confidence. He was like,
Speaker 1: I drafted you, I drafted five as you drafted guy
Speaker 1: who draft l m me, Okay, that's a young part
Speaker 1: of the game. Now. He truly believed that we were
Speaker 1: gonna sign Great Hill, Tim Duncan, and Tracy McGrady, Like
Speaker 1: he said, we all his cat money. He believed we're
Speaker 1: gonna sign all three. And so at the time, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm just new the league, so I'm not understanding like, Okay,
Speaker 1: we're gonna get those guys on the team too, all right,
Speaker 1: But he really believed that. So the front office had
Speaker 1: a lot of confidence from that eight year run. They
Speaker 1: feel like they can make some stuff happen. Um, the
Speaker 1: fans was always sold out. It was always sold out
Speaker 1: because I think them tickets were in advance. They thought,
Speaker 1: you know, we're gonna break up, so they was already
Speaker 1: sold out. So we were terrible, but we played in
Speaker 1: front of a great crowd every single game. So it
Speaker 1: was it was it was tough in the city walking
Speaker 1: around knowing that they just had all this success in
Speaker 1: this dynasty and we come in as this young group
Speaker 1: was trash right now, trying to figure it out, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. But so I really integrated myself
Speaker 1: in the city, going to the hood to play, going
Speaker 1: to all the hood spots, you just say, like the
Speaker 1: CV because I was one of the new like faces.
Speaker 1: I wanted to make sure the city, you know, it
Speaker 1: was connected somehow to our team. So that was good
Speaker 1: and bad by the way, but yeah it was all
Speaker 1: the way. But yeah, in the Chicago hood, I don't
Speaker 1: know how much good can really come from it outside
Speaker 1: the game, man bro. I went to this place called Ikey's.
Speaker 1: It's the projects for real, Like to the point when
Speaker 1: the found out I was there, they was like, you
Speaker 1: could have died over there. Don't you ever go back
Speaker 1: over there for real? Where the guy with the front
Speaker 1: office they was home. So I never went back, but
Speaker 1: I was there. I saw that's where I saw a
Speaker 1: young Will buying. I saw Tony Allen ms there too,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. I was like, it's some
Speaker 1: hoop stuff. But the hood loved it, like abody from
Speaker 1: the bus over here. But the projects they got you
Speaker 1: going to the hood and they got wrong. Working at
Speaker 1: best boy, y'all all over the place, always all over
Speaker 1: the place. We just running the same. We was all
Speaker 1: over the place for real. But we it's crazy because
Speaker 1: me and Rob was the one who jammed together like
Speaker 1: my boy, but like Now I was in the like
Speaker 1: it's it's one thing to be in the hood. I
Speaker 1: was in the projects for real, like because people in
Speaker 1: Chicago and don't go to the to the ikey. So
Speaker 1: unless you're from here, you know what I mean. Yes,
Speaker 1: I was all over the city young him making moves.
Speaker 1: You guys draft Jason Williams, the duke point guard. He
Speaker 1: ends up getting in a pretty much a career ending
Speaker 1: motorcycle accident. Did you get to see any of his
Speaker 1: brilliance before he got hurt? Yeah, it's crazy about that
Speaker 1: is so j will Um. When I blew up in
Speaker 1: high school, certain rankings had me kind of hot. So
Speaker 1: I ended up making a second team Parade All America.
Speaker 1: But Ja rules our first team, and we actually played
Speaker 1: one All Star game together eight sports games in the band.
Speaker 1: I think it was the first one. Jamar Johnson, j
Speaker 1: Will Boozer, Donally, me myself, we all Casey Sanders, we
Speaker 1: all played in the game. And so I was hit
Speaker 1: to Ja. We knew who each other was, and so
Speaker 1: he came in for a workout for his Brules workout
Speaker 1: and we actually played against each other afterwards, like we
Speaker 1: was going at it, and they kind of saw that,
Speaker 1: and so I'm like, they're going to draft team, like
Speaker 1: I just showed them, Like, you know, you got a
Speaker 1: point guard here, because at the time, it wasn't like
Speaker 1: you played two point guards. It was like you played
Speaker 1: one and you played the other. It wasn't like it
Speaker 1: is now position his basketball, right, So I'm like, I
Speaker 1: just showed him. I remember being the draft I never
Speaker 1: told this story. Well, I remember being in the draft
Speaker 1: room at the at the I know we were in
Speaker 1: the room at the at the Practica Cility and we
Speaker 1: drafted j Will, and I stormed down and crowds everybody
Speaker 1: who he left he left like, and I was pissed
Speaker 1: because I knew what that meant. Like Jay Will was
Speaker 1: the Reggie Bush of college basketball, like he was only
Speaker 1: the first crack at it, right, And here I am
Speaker 1: coming off of a c O injury and working out
Speaker 1: with Jordan and coming out and filling my game, going
Speaker 1: to a new level. But I'm hurt. So now I'm
Speaker 1: back healthy, but it's my third year. Now I'm not.
Speaker 1: I'm not the new Tour no more, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, even though I hadn't played a lot, and
Speaker 1: so I knew what that meant. And when they drafted him,
Speaker 1: it was like we went at it because he was
Speaker 1: either one or the other. And finally at the end
Speaker 1: of the season they played us together. We both flourished, right,
Speaker 1: So to see him, uh had that success at the
Speaker 1: end the season and myself and we both was like,
Speaker 1: all right, actually it's gonna play together. We're good. And
Speaker 1: that day I don't know if Jay Roe was ever
Speaker 1: told the story, but that day we're all in the
Speaker 1: Chicago facility working out, myself, Jay Will and j then
Speaker 1: Rhodes and we saw him. Remember Jan was like, hey,
Speaker 1: be careful that like man. Like you know. Later on
Speaker 1: that day we heard about the accident and it was crazy.
Speaker 1: It was crazy. It was It was crazy to hear
Speaker 1: that because he was just about to take off. He
Speaker 1: was he was, Yeah, he was nice. Did not know
Speaker 1: the rules though, No, he knew it. Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: I think he knew it, but you know, he knew.
Speaker 1: He may not known to the extent, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, But I think he had an idea. You know,
Speaker 1: I ain't gonna lie, bro, but I know when I
Speaker 1: first came in the league, and you know, when you're
Speaker 1: being around the best, you people, what nobody working around,
Speaker 1: no motorcycles, what nobody doing no ex game type ship
Speaker 1: but nobody but none of the old schools, the best
Speaker 1: doing none of that. So we automagne knew this is
Speaker 1: out of bounds. Motorcycles all that ship. Ain't nobody doing that, Bro,
Speaker 1: that's out of bounds. Yeah he And when we heard Bro,
Speaker 1: like oh, it was crazy because it wasn't social media,
Speaker 1: like he had to get a conversation from doctors to
Speaker 1: the team to you know what I mean. Like it
Speaker 1: was different and it was just sad Bro because his
Speaker 1: his career was really about to take off. People don't know,
Speaker 1: like people know him as an NBA analyst, Like people
Speaker 1: don't know how cold j Will was Boys in the
Speaker 1: air like this. He would be shoot jump everything. You
Speaker 1: don't get criticized now for being a score point guard
Speaker 1: like that's value, you know what I mean. Like it
Speaker 1: it was different. Then it was like, oh, you gotta
Speaker 1: be this And we were running triangle at the time,
Speaker 1: like damn, we can't get to you with this ship.
Speaker 1: How a were gonna in the triangle and you know
Speaker 1: we ballhandlers like we want to go. So we started
Speaker 1: getting We started figuring out though, So when did you
Speaker 1: feel like you really you said, you know, you're coming
Speaker 1: off this injury. You guys have a little success at
Speaker 1: the end of your season. You're coming into your fourth season.
Speaker 1: That's when you dropped your first fifty ball versus the Raptors.
Speaker 1: Is that fourth season when you really kind of felt like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm trying to get this. That when they end of
Speaker 1: the third season, when they started playing myself in Ja
Speaker 1: Wells like I got it them. I got the speed
Speaker 1: of the game. I got and we were playing teams
Speaker 1: like the Nets when they were fighting for something. We're
Speaker 1: playing teams fighting for something. Vets we played Milwaukee when
Speaker 1: they had GPN. Sampon said, we beat them, so we
Speaker 1: started figuring. I'm like, okay, my confidence is growing. I
Speaker 1: think I averaged nineteen and seven the last twenty games.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm going the next year running. It's solidified.
Speaker 1: I gotta learned playing back in my second year working
Speaker 1: out with Jordan because I got hurt. But that's when
Speaker 1: I took off the end of the third years like
Speaker 1: I got it there, and that's when the fourth ye'all
Speaker 1: took off running for sure. Oh four traded to the
Speaker 1: Knicks for Jerome along with Jerome Winds and exchange from
Speaker 1: a Tumbo and others. Uh, when did you find out
Speaker 1: the news? And is that when you kind of first
Speaker 1: realized like okay, here goes the business park. Yeah. Well
Speaker 1: it was crazy because Dannie All got me telling a
Speaker 1: lot of stories I never told, but this was this
Speaker 1: is for So it was crazy because Isaiah Thomas was
Speaker 1: the first person to call me at twelve oh one,
Speaker 1: you know, when I was a free agent, and he said,
Speaker 1: we want you. You know, we feel like you're fitting
Speaker 1: perfect with us. Um, we want you here, your our
Speaker 1: top priority. They called me a nine pm West coast time,
Speaker 1: twelve pm and the East coast and I was like,
Speaker 1: damn the Knicks. I locked you on the Knicks. And
Speaker 1: that was in July. I didn't sign to August seven,
Speaker 1: so it's a month. It's a change where I'm hitting
Speaker 1: my agent every single day like what's going on, what's
Speaker 1: going on. He's like, it's gonna happen, It's gonna happen.
Speaker 1: Then I remember talking to Chicago Bulls. They said, we'll
Speaker 1: approve this trade for fifty six million dollars, right, And
Speaker 1: so that was the other moment of truth and business
Speaker 1: because I'm like, Okay, I can take this guarantee fifty
Speaker 1: six million from from the Knicks right now on the
Speaker 1: Bulls will let me go to help me get here.
Speaker 1: Or I can play off the fact that the Bulls
Speaker 1: say they don't want this other player. I can say
Speaker 1: they don't really want me back anyway, They're gonna take
Speaker 1: this player and I get seven, right, And so I
Speaker 1: could have played it that way, But I'm like, you
Speaker 1: know what, I never signed a big contract at that point.
Speaker 1: It's just ego anywhere when we signed to secure my
Speaker 1: future and just keep moving, and that's what I did.
Speaker 1: But I could have easily got more if I would
Speaker 1: stayed true. Like now, I know y'all gonna take them.
Speaker 1: I know y'all want to be back. You just drafted
Speaker 1: being board, you don't want me back anywhere, you're gonna
Speaker 1: take the steal. But it helped give them more cap space,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? So that was another business player.
Speaker 1: M m. So you're joining the young Knicks team who
Speaker 1: was rebuilding. What's that like? I mean, you wouldn't go
Speaker 1: vote go from one historical franchise to arguably the biggest
Speaker 1: franchise at the time in the game. What was it
Speaker 1: like being a Knick? It was incredible. It was incredible
Speaker 1: because I historically don't play preseason's hard, Like I kind
Speaker 1: of eased into it that that, yeah, don't do that.
Speaker 1: But once I went to New York in the first game,
Speaker 1: I'll never forget fat joke sitting there, Damn dash for
Speaker 1: sitting there. You had a kind of people sitting there
Speaker 1: in preseason. I'm like, oh, I got to throw on
Speaker 1: the show. So it was showtime right from the start,
Speaker 1: and I sat the toll and then ego, everything is
Speaker 1: bigger in New York, right, everybody gets ex signed off anything.
Speaker 1: So I said, I set the tone from day one.
Speaker 1: So when the season comes, I'm already broke. They already
Speaker 1: know what's expect and alex us to start off that
Speaker 1: that season injury. So I started and I just started
Speaker 1: in Stephano. People don't know this. Stefan I was the
Speaker 1: second leading scoring backcourt in the whole league, only behind
Speaker 1: Gilbert Larry. He was that first year I was there,
Speaker 1: So I loved it was it was like I was
Speaker 1: I was on stage performing. I remember Samuel and Jackson,
Speaker 1: like I said, came to a game and he's sitting
Speaker 1: across and I wasn't playing a particularly game. I had
Speaker 1: something in my hand. I was like, he like, you know,
Speaker 1: playing like Nash like the only came to watch you
Speaker 1: play like damn like mrs like and that then having
Speaker 1: a good game and going to Tower Restaurant and seeing
Speaker 1: Adam Sandler and I know he was just at the game.
Speaker 1: So he's showing me loved like. So I was on
Speaker 1: stage performing, you know what I mean. And that's why
Speaker 1: the guard I can't bring it every single night no
Speaker 1: matter what I mean. We'll we'll talk more basketball. But
Speaker 1: you also started doing something off the court stuff too.
Speaker 1: That's what did you do? You did something with jay Z? Right?
Speaker 1: What do you do with jay Z? Yes? The s
Speaker 1: So that went back going into my last year of Chicago. Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's crazy because I had played for Jed to Rutger.
Speaker 1: He called me. It was like, yo, ill need you
Speaker 1: jet to Rutgers. So I'm like, who can bring Eddy?
Speaker 1: Curry's like yeah, So I went to the Rutger and
Speaker 1: we tore it up. And so that relationship really took off.
Speaker 1: And then he was like uh no, so and then
Speaker 1: fast forward or we wanting to Chicago myself and Jana
Speaker 1: Roses Lockers is side by side and we're both a
Speaker 1: Rebok at the time, and they were always sending us
Speaker 1: a same gear. You get pair, you get a peer.
Speaker 1: At one time, the s dark Carn's ride and I
Speaker 1: looked over jealous lock. I didn't see none of something
Speaker 1: like what's going on here? So then I hit my
Speaker 1: I hit my I hit my lead bock and REP like, yo,
Speaker 1: what's up? They said, Jay wants you to wear a shoe.
Speaker 1: They want you to I'm like, for real, and like yeah,
Speaker 1: but it's not technically a basketball. She was just the
Speaker 1: high top version of his low tip. There's like, if
Speaker 1: you like it, you could wear it. I'm like, there's
Speaker 1: like you'd be the only one to lead wearing it.
Speaker 1: I'm like I'm wearing it and like no, I mean,
Speaker 1: you can't get hurt. You gotta make sure. I'm like
Speaker 1: it's cool. I'm good. So it's like wearing some Air
Speaker 1: Force ones basically. And I played we played Philly and
Speaker 1: a I was like they could wear those in the game,
Speaker 1: like everybody had the low tops and sold out. It
Speaker 1: was going crazy, like Yappa were him and I played
Speaker 1: well and I kept wearing them and that relationship really
Speaker 1: grew and then I went to New York. We got
Speaker 1: even type. Oh I got a story for y'all, jay Z.
Speaker 1: I mean we went to eat after a game and
Speaker 1: he was playing Rick Ross. I only think Rick Ross
Speaker 1: knows this because I never sold it. But Rick Ross,
Speaker 1: he's playing Wosbeck Ross every damn husting. J was mesmerized
Speaker 1: when I saw him, like like whippen whippen real hard.
Speaker 1: He kept saying that part. He loved it. And that's
Speaker 1: my introduction to Rick Crosses to jay Z. And Ross
Speaker 1: has never heard that story. So if I ever he
Speaker 1: sees this, he don't know. Yeah, that was the first
Speaker 1: person put me on the lay Brown Uh put you
Speaker 1: your second year there and the six man role. Initially,
Speaker 1: how did you take that? You became arguably the greatest
Speaker 1: six men in the history of basketball. But at the
Speaker 1: at the time, where was your mental with that? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I didn't see it at first because I was starting,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like I'm starting the year.
Speaker 1: I always started my whole life, so I never come
Speaker 1: off the bench. And when he tried it that year,
Speaker 1: I had some success, and he said I improved more
Speaker 1: than any players that ever coach was was huge coming
Speaker 1: from a legend like that, but I just it was
Speaker 1: weird to me. I just felt inferior at the time, Like, man,
Speaker 1: so I'm not good enough, you know. I we're programming
Speaker 1: to think like they have the starters, the best players,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. So it was different from me.
Speaker 1: But I had some really big games and I saw
Speaker 1: his vision. I just understand the time because I'm only nine,
Speaker 1: maybe I'm maybe twenty six at the time, and I
Speaker 1: had a lot of success, and he trusted me, like
Speaker 1: I had the ball late and everything. He's like, he's
Speaker 1: not a dog who starts to finish. He always said that.
Speaker 1: He always dripped that. My head always drilled it. And
Speaker 1: so I learned a life from Coach Brown. He's actually
Speaker 1: probably the best teacher I've ever played for. And so yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: like he was. He was incredible and he had that
Speaker 1: that foresight in that vision because I didn't see it
Speaker 1: for myself. Long time to go and finish the game sign,
Speaker 1: that's what he's always teen. No one finished the game sign,
Speaker 1: so it can We had to get rid of the characters.
Speaker 1: We have to get rid of the chancus. Here, you
Speaker 1: could have a big bucket of ice cream and a
Speaker 1: bird flies by, and just a little piece of bird
Speaker 1: ship flies and ice cream the whole ice creams room.
Speaker 1: He would say stuff like that like he was he
Speaker 1: was a teacher, bro like for real, No, no, that
Speaker 1: I remember. I came and playing, so I was kind
Speaker 1: of bounced around my first few years. And I came
Speaker 1: to your guy this training camp late. Maybe I came
Speaker 1: to training camp late as the motherfucker. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: is when Zeke Zeke had just taken over. If I'm
Speaker 1: not mistaken. Oh no, he was there already, but yeah,
Speaker 1: but it was. It was some ship where they invited
Speaker 1: me to training camp, laid I come in, I play. Well,
Speaker 1: they won't let me fly back to New York because
Speaker 1: I don't have a suit. I'm just like, yeah, y'all
Speaker 1: didn't tell me I needed a suit. I hadn't had
Speaker 1: a suit to get on the plane. So everyone's giving
Speaker 1: me one of these someone's giving me pass, someone's giving
Speaker 1: me sucks. So let's give me a belt, shirt, jacket, tie,
Speaker 1: the whole nine. So I go on this team and
Speaker 1: there's a lot of injury. So I go from like
Speaker 1: the last dude in training camp to starting like the
Speaker 1: first eight to ten games, and then I remember Isaiah
Speaker 1: comes to me. It's like, you know, we got a
Speaker 1: lot of we got a lot of money on the bench.
Speaker 1: That's starting to you know, the guys are starting to
Speaker 1: get healthy. I'm thinking, okay, well shoot, I'm just about
Speaker 1: to go to the bench and I'm not gonna start more.
Speaker 1: His niggas cut me, bro I played like eight teen games,
Speaker 1: started played well, and just got cut and got cut.
Speaker 1: It was crazy, man, because you really could not get
Speaker 1: on the plane leaving. We were like we we didn't
Speaker 1: know we needed to suit for real. That's a real story. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he could not get on the plane. He just went
Speaker 1: to training. Kim would do hill. He could not get
Speaker 1: on the plane to get back with us if he
Speaker 1: doesn't have a suit off. So everybody makes sure the
Speaker 1: suit to make it happen. Man. I remember he was
Speaker 1: out with night as me and you, and it's a
Speaker 1: moment it was us two out and we're allownge whatever,
Speaker 1: and his dudes come and say what's up to us?
Speaker 1: He did from about thirty feet he did a side
Speaker 1: step all the way until he got you got towards
Speaker 1: and me and Maddie said the words with each other,
Speaker 1: and we both started cracking up, like we knew when
Speaker 1: each other was thinking. He did a side step and
Speaker 1: finally said, what's up, man, what's up? He did a
Speaker 1: whole hey corin, he did a whole dion saying it's
Speaker 1: celebration to get to us, to say what's something? I
Speaker 1: swear to God me? And that was cracking up absolutely,
Speaker 1: And Hey. The reason why I think I got cut
Speaker 1: though us because, as Jamal mentioned earlier, he know natives
Speaker 1: whole life. Nate was a fucking terror and he was
Speaker 1: always pranking people. So me and him got into like
Speaker 1: a pranking war and this they put uh uh uh
Speaker 1: the itching powder in my tights and everybody knew with me.
Speaker 1: Remember I went to practice and my motherfucking crotch was
Speaker 1: on fire. Yeah, they did a lot of They stopped
Speaker 1: with the whole shower or relief one to kill him.
Speaker 1: They get so much ship, yeah, crazy, and the thing
Speaker 1: about natives, you can go back and forth with him,
Speaker 1: but he just got too much hambular for that ship.
Speaker 1: So he's gonna keep going never never, you ain't gonna win.
Speaker 1: You're like, man, at this point, like this is too much.
Speaker 1: This nigga pranked me in. He pranked me in target
Speaker 1: one time he ran into me and targeted, like threw
Speaker 1: something at me and I couldn't see who it was.
Speaker 1: I was ready to fights like this. Nigga just never
Speaker 1: stopped you. Oh for the oh eight good running New York.
Speaker 1: What was the one thing you remember about that fan base?
Speaker 1: It was incredible And this is a lot. I never
Speaker 1: got booth there in four and a half years, and
Speaker 1: that's saying a lot because we weren't very good at
Speaker 1: the time and they just knew I played it all
Speaker 1: out like I wasn't scared to take the big shots.
Speaker 1: I hit game winners, I missed big shots like but
Speaker 1: I wasn't scared. It was like I was one of them,
Speaker 1: like people from there, like you know you're from New York,
Speaker 1: like you from Seattle. But they just took me as
Speaker 1: one of their old So I sho The fan base
Speaker 1: was incredible, incredible. When the time ran out of New
Speaker 1: Yorker came to go to stay with your ball man,
Speaker 1: you're in the trade for al Yeah, it was really
Speaker 1: ideal feeling because we need we needed somebody to come
Speaker 1: in and bring some more scoring. Um, tell me your
Speaker 1: first thoughts on coming to go to stay coming to
Speaker 1: us and don Nelson, the Great Donny, the Great Dinny.
Speaker 1: So I was, I was. I was shocked, to be
Speaker 1: honest with you, because at the time when I got traded,
Speaker 1: myself and Zebo got traded the same day, and so
Speaker 1: I went to the Warriors, he went to the Clippers.
Speaker 1: I was. We both are as. We were I think
Speaker 1: six and four in the first teen games, and so
Speaker 1: we were like, damn, we're about to make the All
Speaker 1: Star Game. We're in New York. They gonna juice us up,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. So I was shocked. So
Speaker 1: after I got traded, it took me a couple of days.
Speaker 1: I I met you guys on the East Coast, and Jack, honestly,
Speaker 1: once you embrace me, the rest of the team did,
Speaker 1: So you made that transition easy. It's like when you're
Speaker 1: a new kid going to school, like to a new school,
Speaker 1: and you know you know the best you know the
Speaker 1: best player there. So if he embraced you, everybody embrace you,
Speaker 1: and you made a way. And I mean Jack like that.
Speaker 1: Then we talked about that we were trying to play together,
Speaker 1: so yeah, yeah, yeah, and he was like, thank you,
Speaker 1: I finally got some help. I finally got some help.
Speaker 1: Jack was Jack was. He was unbelievable, just like his work.
Speaker 1: I remember was in New Orleans, Jack and you was
Speaker 1: the last one of the quarter after shoo him like
Speaker 1: Jackie had come back here in a few hours. Dog
Speaker 1: like tripping, but just like your work, ethic, your leadership.
Speaker 1: I remember want to eat with Bobby round and you
Speaker 1: talk and he was like, man, stop playing safe. You
Speaker 1: gotta shoot the ball. I'm like, no, I gotta make
Speaker 1: sure everybody got the ball. Like now, you gotta shoot
Speaker 1: the ball, man. So just that embracement from you, it
Speaker 1: trickled down to everybody else, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Monte is coming back. At the time, don Nelson was
Speaker 1: out there outside practice playing with his dogs, like he
Speaker 1: had key run practice. Let practice playing with his dog.
Speaker 1: But it was just it was just a dope environment.
Speaker 1: I wish you could have been good. Like if I
Speaker 1: was at the time, y'alls we believe and I came,
Speaker 1: it'd be even crazy, even crazier. But yeah, it was.
Speaker 1: It was dope. It was dope to find play together
Speaker 1: even though it short lives. We we we get together
Speaker 1: were in Boston and uh and then when we was
Speaker 1: in our Showtime and prime Time mode, then Showtime, Showtime
Speaker 1: and Prime You know what I'm saying. We we always
Speaker 1: get out of talks for the game, but cruicial playing
Speaker 1: the game. You crossed ray out and over making fall
Speaker 1: throw it to me in the in the corner for
Speaker 1: the three You remember that play? Come on man, hey
Speaker 1: hey it was crazy but it was he failed. But
Speaker 1: then he laid put his hands like he was Jesus
Speaker 1: for real, like he just laid down for us. He
Speaker 1: laid down and say it like, hold on, man, that's Jesus.
Speaker 1: These ain't doing that. But Ronald Crazy rond Rondo rod
Speaker 1: O came over and if it passed it, like I
Speaker 1: was always taught, no matter how the player goes, you
Speaker 1: gotta finish it, you know what I'm saying, Like whether
Speaker 1: it be a pass or a shot or whatever it
Speaker 1: might be. So when I did it, he kind of
Speaker 1: half came and I threw it to you on Jack
Speaker 1: made that's just lash like Jack, And then Jack started
Speaker 1: talking like yeah, I'm like okay, Jack, I was whatever
Speaker 1: you want to do. I want to tell the man.
Speaker 1: Last night, after I hit I ran down enough bumbarade.
Speaker 1: I was ready for a smoke. Man, I wanted all
Speaker 1: smoke after that. What's crazy about you all? Too? Though?
Speaker 1: For real, for real, all the teammates I've ever had,
Speaker 1: like if I was going to a war, like I
Speaker 1: gotta have him to here, There's no doubt about it.
Speaker 1: I know you're gonna ask me the five later on,
Speaker 1: but I'm just throwing that out there right now, going
Speaker 1: to I already got the form, man, I watch the
Speaker 1: show too much. Dog doing a victory over the Bobcasting
Speaker 1: December two thousand and eight. You had a fifty point game.
Speaker 1: That's becoming the fourth player in NBA history only after
Speaker 1: Will but No King and Moses Malone for fifty points
Speaker 1: with three teams. Bro. That's why that's why I call
Speaker 1: your showtime because you show up. How did that feel?
Speaker 1: And being in the conversation the names of those guys,
Speaker 1: how did that feel to you? It felt unbelievable because Jack,
Speaker 1: you was hurt, so you didn't play that game. But
Speaker 1: I remember we was in Atlanta the night before, so
Speaker 1: back to back. I'll never forget it, and I played
Speaker 1: terrible and my son was in the crowd. He was
Speaker 1: living at the time, and I think I was like
Speaker 1: three or fifteen and I played awful, and I remember
Speaker 1: the next day, uh don Neils was like, yo, we're
Speaker 1: not having them shoot around sleeping everybody me at the bus.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, we meet early, so we did that.
Speaker 1: I remember sleeping all day. I got it for breakfast,
Speaker 1: went back. I slept all day and I was just
Speaker 1: ready and I started off the game. I had seven
Speaker 1: in the first quarter. I think I had like twenty
Speaker 1: three going to the half. I've got in the rhythm
Speaker 1: and with me, y'all know how I play. I played
Speaker 1: craziest ship. So if I made a couple, I feel
Speaker 1: like I'm hot, you know what I mean. And then
Speaker 1: a couple of win and I just kept going, kept going,
Speaker 1: kept going. I had thirty five with five minutes to go,
Speaker 1: and then Ronie started giving me the ball and coach
Speaker 1: start drawing the plays and I kind of, you know,
Speaker 1: start getting foul and things that makes. But whenever you
Speaker 1: score fifty like that, it's never just you, Like it's
Speaker 1: gotta be the perfect storm. Somebody said, the screen, give
Speaker 1: me the ball, drawing the plays like so when you
Speaker 1: have success like that, it's everybody, and you could feel
Speaker 1: everybody kind of take in that, and it's dope because
Speaker 1: you know, it's everybody can kind of share it. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I was just happy and they told me the company.
Speaker 1: I was like, damn. And then I go to Atlanto.
Speaker 1: We go to Lando next game, and I got straight.
Speaker 1: I get hurt in the warm sweezing the back before
Speaker 1: we go. I'm like, because I was trying to get
Speaker 1: fifty again, I got I got hurt during the Anthony
Speaker 1: Moral stretch when you kick your leg up and then
Speaker 1: in my growing were ready for that. It was weak.
Speaker 1: It was weird. So I had eighteen Orlando game, but
Speaker 1: it was I was hurting. I had text some time
Speaker 1: off after that one. I was hurting. That was hurting.
Speaker 1: Ship that that young Anthony Morrol I had to put
Speaker 1: you out. Yeah, I was, I was. I was good.
Speaker 1: We did the sideways swing. I was waiting he started.
Speaker 1: He started going front. I started front foot him and
Speaker 1: it was all bad. Yeah, pop goes. A reason it
Speaker 1: was all over with was until the Hawks in two
Speaker 1: thousand nine and two thousand and eleven, backing up all
Speaker 1: start guard Joe Johnson and Mike Bibby. You have eighteen
Speaker 1: points too and ninlf rebounds to assists off the bench.
Speaker 1: What was it like coming to a t L and
Speaker 1: your first action as teammates with those guys. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: was crazy because that was the first time I knew
Speaker 1: i'd be a sixth man. And y'all know, the league
Speaker 1: put you in a box. And so I got to
Speaker 1: a point where I was like, Man, I'm being on
Speaker 1: as a good player on bad teams, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. I didn't want that. Y'all had already went
Speaker 1: to the playoffs. I never went, so I was just
Speaker 1: labeled such. So I'm like, all right, I'll do whatever
Speaker 1: I gotta do. And they just went to the playoffs
Speaker 1: with with with Joe and Marvin and and Al and
Speaker 1: Mike and Josh right, so they had their crew. I'm like,
Speaker 1: I come off the bench. I think I can bring
Speaker 1: something different. So going into that summer when we played
Speaker 1: pick up, I would always make sure I will start
Speaker 1: a game or two later, just so I can start
Speaker 1: seeing the game a little differently, you know what I mean, Like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm start getting used to seeing. Okay, I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: be out there when the thing starts, So what you're
Speaker 1: gonna pay attention to? What are you watching? And so
Speaker 1: that first game of the real game I had three points.
Speaker 1: I took only two shots, and Joe Johnson, you know,
Speaker 1: he don't talk a lot. He was like, man, you
Speaker 1: gotta shoot one man, We need to shoot right. And
Speaker 1: then he told Mike what's it. Mike Wooson put me
Speaker 1: in his office. He's like, yo, you gotta go lead
Speaker 1: the league and scoring off the bench. You got the
Speaker 1: same green light you've had your career. I'm like, oh, okay,
Speaker 1: for real, okay, I'm going. So once that hit, we
Speaker 1: never looked back. And it was crazy because Atlanta. I
Speaker 1: love living there because that was the first time you
Speaker 1: saw people like us doing jobs like drug testing or
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, like anything anything you wouldn't
Speaker 1: want to see us in it. Like so I was
Speaker 1: really really happy and the people really took to me.
Speaker 1: Like I like I said, I brought some of that
Speaker 1: that that that old Georgia peach, that lemonade. It brought
Speaker 1: the flavor to it what they already had. It's just
Speaker 1: a great mix, you know. And then Orlando. Orlando kicked
Speaker 1: our ass in the playoffs. But you know, yes, but
Speaker 1: we don't worry. We got Jack right before a. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we swept. Jack destroyed them, came through stumped all the
Speaker 1: peaches in Atlanta. Yeah, hey, y'all beat the fat that's
Speaker 1: by average of thirty five points. And it was killing
Speaker 1: us that were killing us. Bro we should have won
Speaker 1: a championship that year. Man's get Stan got scared in
Speaker 1: the Eastern Conference finals in Boston beat us. But with
Speaker 1: all we had, we had a good aass team that year.
Speaker 1: Y'all had a squad. But then we came back and
Speaker 1: beat them the next year though. Yeah, but all that
Speaker 1: before we get to that though. This is so you
Speaker 1: win your first six man of the ward six Man
Speaker 1: of the Year award in two thousand ten. What's that
Speaker 1: feeling like being recognized as you know, the best player? Uh,
Speaker 1: coming off the bench. It gave me an idea, And
Speaker 1: it's crazy because like I didn't like I remember baby
Speaker 1: said you have win six man a year at the end,
Speaker 1: like what And Dominique Wilkins was saying, I didn't even
Speaker 1: think like going to the season that would be the
Speaker 1: award of the goal. And once you start getting closer,
Speaker 1: like jam I wanted, you know me, I want to
Speaker 1: do it. So then after that I'm like, oh wow,
Speaker 1: so now it's dope. Fast forward a little bit when
Speaker 1: I see kids in the gym and they're like, maybe
Speaker 1: you maybe you want to be a sixth man. Like
Speaker 1: in our community, it wasn't it wasn't cool. It wasn't
Speaker 1: cool to be a sixth man. Like now they're like, no,
Speaker 1: I want to come off the bench and I could
Speaker 1: still kill me one of the more important players even
Speaker 1: though he grew off the bench, like woh, that's crazy.
Speaker 1: So I didn't know that it would take on a
Speaker 1: life of its own, had that kind of legacy behind,
Speaker 1: you know. So it was big for me because I
Speaker 1: was going on a winning team and I showed like,
Speaker 1: you know what, I ain't got to be the star
Speaker 1: of the movie. I could be a co star and
Speaker 1: still start in my role. And it gave me a
Speaker 1: whole different ideaity mm hmm. So two thousand twelve, uh,
Speaker 1: Los Angeles Clippers. Yeah, thinking back on that Lob City
Speaker 1: run that we had what what what stands out to
Speaker 1: you the most? The best team I ever played on
Speaker 1: that didn't want it like we to me, we had
Speaker 1: everything you needed. It was man, it was incredible, Like
Speaker 1: if you it was almost like we were playing two
Speaker 1: with how good are was like? It was just incredible.
Speaker 1: We just could not get over the hump. And as
Speaker 1: time went on, it got even harder to get over
Speaker 1: the hump, because now jokes, ain't it funny anymore? You
Speaker 1: know what I mean? Like you start getting tired of
Speaker 1: each other, and just like man, the doubt starts creeping in,
Speaker 1: other people start creeping in, whether we family, whatever it
Speaker 1: might be, and it's just got it got crazy. But
Speaker 1: to me, that was the best team I was ever on.
Speaker 1: We should have went to I'm not saying we should
Speaker 1: have one championship because you needed some luck. We should
Speaker 1: at least been to one finals FORCIA. What do you think?
Speaker 1: You mentioned the hump, and you know J J and
Speaker 1: I have talked about it on on on his podcast
Speaker 1: and ours. What do you think that hump was for us?
Speaker 1: For us? I think we didn't handle university. I don't
Speaker 1: think we're mentally tough enough in the moments that it
Speaker 1: mattered the most. And it could have been me at times,
Speaker 1: it could have been somebody else at the time or
Speaker 1: whatever it was. I just think collectively as a group,
Speaker 1: and you know what, you guys knowing him winning championships
Speaker 1: and the group has to all be tight. And I think,
Speaker 1: you know, we're older now looking but I think looking back,
Speaker 1: if we had some of them O g is like yo,
Speaker 1: this is y'all's moment, they could be another moment like this,
Speaker 1: like you gotta get this right now to make it happen,
Speaker 1: like this is it. I think we had that things
Speaker 1: will be in the different the likes of you know,
Speaker 1: Doc Rivers. We started with Vinny. Doc came in. He
Speaker 1: was supposed to be that missing coaching piece along with Doc.
Speaker 1: You know JJ who just recurred, just retired. DeAndre who's
Speaker 1: with the Lakers, CPS and Phoenix Blake's with the Nets.
Speaker 1: I mean, we had Lamar Ultim at one point, Eric Bledsoe,
Speaker 1: Darren Collison. We had a really, really, really talented team.
Speaker 1: Talked to that we had everything. And it's crazy because
Speaker 1: we literally won so many games. I think in that
Speaker 1: four year stretch we were like top four or five
Speaker 1: in the league and wins like we want so many games.
Speaker 1: It was just when it mattered most days and fall
Speaker 1: apart right or be sterling, sterling ships and injuries, don't
Speaker 1: Blake and CP and a five minute stands important. I mean,
Speaker 1: so like it's it's just man, I don't know if
Speaker 1: it was harmer or what. But when some when it
Speaker 1: mattered most we just fell apart somehow a sterling curse.
Speaker 1: So you're able to win uh six Man of the
Speaker 1: Year two thousand, fourteen and sixteen. I want to say,
Speaker 1: I remember fourteen. Uh they wanted you to dress up,
Speaker 1: so you had like pulled your shirt out of like
Speaker 1: it was freshly folding. You know how they're all come
Speaker 1: packed and this nick didn't want to iron it. He
Speaker 1: just wanted to take it out and put it on. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he didn't like to dress up. Hey, so two times
Speaker 1: you end up winning it two times to put you three.
Speaker 1: I want to say that your boy louis tied with
Speaker 1: you now if I'm not mistaken right for what he's
Speaker 1: one of three times as well? Yeah he has ye yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean what does that mean to you though, to
Speaker 1: be kind of the standard for uh six man basketball?
Speaker 1: And you said kids aspired to to to be like
Speaker 1: that now, but what does that mean to you now
Speaker 1: that you kind of sit back and and now that
Speaker 1: you're done and you take a look at it. It
Speaker 1: means everything, Because like I said, that wasn't to go either.
Speaker 1: So it was like to see kids say it's okay,
Speaker 1: to come off the bench. I'm not less than because
Speaker 1: I'm from off the bench. I can still be just
Speaker 1: as important as one starting. And that's and that's surrounding country.
Speaker 1: Like I've been all over the country and they say
Speaker 1: the same thing, like man, I want to be a
Speaker 1: sixth man, now I want I'm like, wow, it's crazy
Speaker 1: because I would never even thinking that. I was just
Speaker 1: trying to show I could be a good player on
Speaker 1: bad team. So that's crazy. And then to win it
Speaker 1: at thirty four, you know, you guys know, once you
Speaker 1: start getting up there in age, they start saying, oh,
Speaker 1: he's too old to do this, so they put you
Speaker 1: in another box. So I became the oldest to winning
Speaker 1: at thirty four, and then I broke my old record
Speaker 1: and one at thirty six to which is crazy because
Speaker 1: that wouldn't even go that year. Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1: So it's just a blessing man like I. It's just
Speaker 1: and you can't see him that they're up there right now,
Speaker 1: and that's something they can never change and take away.
Speaker 1: We have some memorable battles in the playoffs with the
Speaker 1: Spurs the year they won the champion following you didn't
Speaker 1: won the championship. We knocked him out in the first round. Uh.
Speaker 1: We were the last team to beat the Warriors in
Speaker 1: the seven games sterling season before they started winning championships. Uh.
Speaker 1: But battle with the Grizzlies. What playoff series? Uh? Stand
Speaker 1: up till you had the most. I would saying the
Speaker 1: Spurs one, because that one was they just won a championship.
Speaker 1: And I don't know if you remember this, Matt, we
Speaker 1: were eating the night before the regular season or the
Speaker 1: same acting regular season ended, and there was like a
Speaker 1: million different ways of if this happens, and that happens,
Speaker 1: you guys playing this team, If that happens, you're playing
Speaker 1: this team and the Spurs I remember clearly z Ball
Speaker 1: towards the end of the season. I was like, who
Speaker 1: y'all got in the cloffs? He's like, man, I don't
Speaker 1: know if you're trying to stay away from Spurs man.
Speaker 1: And they ended the season like and and four or something.
Speaker 1: They were rolling after won the championship, and we got
Speaker 1: in the first round, Like damn, I didn't even want
Speaker 1: in the first round, Like, ma, if we see him
Speaker 1: in the Western Finals, will be ready for him. But
Speaker 1: and we saw him in the first round to me,
Speaker 1: that was the toughest Sea that I ever played against
Speaker 1: in the playoffs because they were so they were so
Speaker 1: like detail and you could have a shot for Bella
Speaker 1: Nelli after him not taking a shot the whole game
Speaker 1: popers to play for him at a time out when
Speaker 1: you just start to relax, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: He made me pay for it, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: So they were always playing chess and Tim Dunkin was
Speaker 1: just unbelievable because while I was coming to his own
Speaker 1: at that time, it was actually maybe monitors last year possibly,
Speaker 1: if I'm not mistaken, I think the following the following
Speaker 1: year he might have. I think he fought to retire.
Speaker 1: But they were saying like when we beat them, that
Speaker 1: was like the end of their dynasty, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, that team and that was kind of the
Speaker 1: end of their run. And that really showed us at
Speaker 1: the time. You know, it's like, should we just beat
Speaker 1: the defending champions, like we you know, we had the
Speaker 1: what it takes to win this, but we just again
Speaker 1: we never just we we can never get over there.
Speaker 1: And Matt and Matt. After we beat them, we go
Speaker 1: up three one on Houston Sobot to the Western Finals
Speaker 1: against the team we just put out a year or
Speaker 1: two before, you know what I mean. So we're about
Speaker 1: to win this thing? Yeah, no, it was, it was.
Speaker 1: It was all too good to be true. Next lot um,
Speaker 1: you know, So you when when it's all, when it's
Speaker 1: all said and done. Um, you got twenty years in
Speaker 1: this game. Um, are you at peace with that? I mean,
Speaker 1: your motherfucker's gonna be playing until your sixty already know that.
Speaker 1: But you at peace with three six Man of the
Speaker 1: Years awards, twenty years under your belt, and just the
Speaker 1: legacy you left. I'm at peace with it, but I
Speaker 1: still feel kind of robbed, to be honest with you, Like,
Speaker 1: I know for a fact these last couple of years,
Speaker 1: I could have played in helped the scene in whatever role.
Speaker 1: If they were playing ten minutes of games, they're playing
Speaker 1: five minutes a game. If they're playing you're not gonna play,
Speaker 1: but we may save you for the playoff whenever it
Speaker 1: might be. I know I could have helped, And that
Speaker 1: part kills me. And then you look at somebody like
Speaker 1: the marketsol and shouts to him, he just reached twenty
Speaker 1: thousand points. And I remember when we went out to
Speaker 1: eat a couple of years back or few years back,
Speaker 1: and we were talking about that, both of us getting
Speaker 1: twenty thousand points, and I'm like, I'm less than six
Speaker 1: hundreds away. I'm like fives and change. I'm like, damn
Speaker 1: if I will play any one these seasons they said
Speaker 1: I didn't play, I could have easily had that, and
Speaker 1: that easily right, and already like to I have the
Speaker 1: most points to ever be an All Star. But I
Speaker 1: think that's like legacy to be a guy that predominantly
Speaker 1: came off the bench his career and get twenty thousand points.
Speaker 1: It would be this close to it and not get
Speaker 1: it because of you know, for myself, it's crazy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: call it what it is. Politics. Yeah, it's crazy. So
Speaker 1: I'm at peace overall, but I still feel a little Rod. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: I mean I think you touched on it earlier. Remember
Speaker 1: when we first came in the league, whether the Vets
Speaker 1: were playing or the Vets were just there to make
Speaker 1: the place better, there was Vets, you know, And now
Speaker 1: your Vets are thirty one, thirty two years old, Like
Speaker 1: they don't have the older players that I think are
Speaker 1: missing from this game. Not from a standpoint of just
Speaker 1: so much production, although they can still produce, but just
Speaker 1: helping these young kids alonge, they don't have that. Nor
Speaker 1: the average age of the league is so much younger
Speaker 1: now than it was when we came in the league,
Speaker 1: and that if, like you said, if if it was
Speaker 1: still what it was, you would have definitely reached twenty
Speaker 1: thousand points and got to play more seasons. But for
Speaker 1: some reason, they just don't have room for vets no more.
Speaker 1: And it's crazy because how could you not want to
Speaker 1: learn from vets. Right If I'm if I'm a photographer,
Speaker 1: a young photographer in the game trying to shoot the NBA,
Speaker 1: and I can learn from Andy Burnsty, Like, why would
Speaker 1: I not do that? If I'm if I'm an athlete
Speaker 1: crossing over to this side, why would I I come
Speaker 1: talk to you guys first and tell me how these work,
Speaker 1: how it goes, Like that's what vets are for. Like
Speaker 1: and especially when you have vests that want to get
Speaker 1: back to the next generation, they want to help somebody
Speaker 1: go from point A to point B, right, like you
Speaker 1: have these guys willing to do that. There's no reason
Speaker 1: that Isaiah Thomas and Bookie Cousins and lakes In Galloway
Speaker 1: and Kyle Corver. These guys are not in the league.
Speaker 1: It's there's no reason for it. And it's it's sad
Speaker 1: because you know, like I said, you don't know what
Speaker 1: you don't know as a young player, right, So if
Speaker 1: you can learn from these guys and take me out
Speaker 1: of If you can learn from these guys, and they're
Speaker 1: all years, they've seen these guys growing up, how could
Speaker 1: you not take advantage of that? And it's just it's
Speaker 1: unbelievable to me, and I think it's wrong. It's just wrong.
Speaker 1: So you also on your way out, you know, set
Speaker 1: some milestones, drop fifty one as a thirty nine year
Speaker 1: old bitch off the bench, which they've never been done,
Speaker 1: and then one of only twenty nine players in the
Speaker 1: history of the game to play into their forties. You know,
Speaker 1: when you hear little little pieces like that, what does
Speaker 1: it mean to you? Well that that backstory about that
Speaker 1: last game. I needed twenty five and the reason why
Speaker 1: is they showed me a graphic in Kareem, Kobe and
Speaker 1: myself for the only three to play in the nineteenth
Speaker 1: year and try to get twenty five and three straight games.
Speaker 1: So I had twenty five and Dallas going into the
Speaker 1: fourth quarter. I remember before the game, Nico Harrison was there,
Speaker 1: GP was there, all the greats were there because it
Speaker 1: was Dirk's last home game and I told g P
Speaker 1: and and you could ask if you guys see him.
Speaker 1: I told him in the layup Li, I'm like, I'm
Speaker 1: put on the show tonight. And I didn't even know
Speaker 1: it's gonna be fifty. I didn't think it was possible
Speaker 1: to score fifty off the bench. I didn't think there
Speaker 1: was enough time in the game. But i got twenty
Speaker 1: five on the fourth quarter, and I'm like, I'm really
Speaker 1: just stopped to go now. And then I had thirty
Speaker 1: eight with eight minutes to go, and that's when it
Speaker 1: was like, this is a fifty point nine and that
Speaker 1: that's when it just like took off and went in
Speaker 1: for Dirt to mention me in his speech for my
Speaker 1: teammates and look for me for coach to draw plays.
Speaker 1: You used to get lost in the game, like you
Speaker 1: really feel like you're out there by yourself, like you
Speaker 1: just shooting, and that's got lost in the game. My
Speaker 1: feet could be off balanced and my shoulders to get
Speaker 1: a different way. You just need space at that point,
Speaker 1: and you feel like it's going in and that's what happened,
Speaker 1: and I thank God for it because like Cold rest
Speaker 1: in peace, Cold playing his last game, So that's sixty.
Speaker 1: He was gonna get his numbers. He was going for it.
Speaker 1: I didn't know that was gonna be my last I
Speaker 1: didn't know it was gonna be my last game, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. Like I was just going just
Speaker 1: to to hoop and in the season on the right way.
Speaker 1: So yeah, that was that was crazy that that's the
Speaker 1: last official game I played, And what better way to
Speaker 1: go out. Yeah. Absolutely had a pit stop in in
Speaker 1: with the nets. Uh due to injury. Wasn't able to perform.
Speaker 1: So hey, due to the weight room, Matt, you know
Speaker 1: all the lift weights and jack. They tried, they tried
Speaker 1: to put you in there. Fam, listen, so I come out.
Speaker 1: I've been home for sixteen months, right. I don't want
Speaker 1: to be the guy who's like, oh, I'm not doing
Speaker 1: that at this but everybody's lifting weights. It's the routine.
Speaker 1: So I'm like, all, I'm gonna live. That's not your
Speaker 1: game though, But Fam, as soon as I got that way,
Speaker 1: when I felt it, I said, oh, family, this is
Speaker 1: why I don't It's the best defense I've ever seen
Speaker 1: was their way room. Yeah, and I came up short.
Speaker 1: Oh that was it? Hey but fair, But I had
Speaker 1: five fours and three sis in five minutes A gains
Speaker 1: the team I was rolling. I was cool. But that
Speaker 1: way where you developed, you touched on it earlier, but
Speaker 1: kind of getting breaking down the relationship you built with
Speaker 1: MJ playing pickup games and and um, you know just
Speaker 1: the kind of relationship you had with him when he
Speaker 1: was coming back to the Woodchard as well. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: my dad, I was going through the draft process. My
Speaker 1: dad was telling me like, MJ, like your game, Like, man,
Speaker 1: you know that, Like this ain't social media, this ain't
Speaker 1: this era. How you don't know Michael Jordan's right. So
Speaker 1: fast forward. I get drafted by Chicago and Tim Brower
Speaker 1: hit me one day. It was like yo, MJ says
Speaker 1: you can meet him. And I'm like what He's like, Yeah,
Speaker 1: he says you can meet him. So I I shoot
Speaker 1: down there six in the morning. I shoot down and
Speaker 1: get a game that day actually, and I get to
Speaker 1: hoops and it's myself, m J and Tim Brover in
Speaker 1: the gym and I'm trying not to talk because he's
Speaker 1: doing his workout. So when he talks to me, obviously
Speaker 1: I speak back, but I'll never forget he was four
Speaker 1: years old. He's about to come back, and he's doing
Speaker 1: defensive slide drills, and so he's talking. He's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: when the season is over, you could, you know, and
Speaker 1: the some weep work out with me. I'm like, all right,
Speaker 1: coul I get I leave there. I could seven in
Speaker 1: the morning. I call everybody back home. Right in the
Speaker 1: West Coast is only five any more? So nobody picks up.
Speaker 1: But I'm telling a j guy, I'm like, yo' she
Speaker 1: met Michael Jordan's and so fast forward. And my dad
Speaker 1: tells me later on he said, the reason I knew
Speaker 1: it was because obviously he went to Oregon. Remember I
Speaker 1: told you guys that a milera shot Myra Shaw went
Speaker 1: to Oregon with him and a Mira shot in Jordan
Speaker 1: like this. So Mara Shot was the one of telling
Speaker 1: him that. Yeah, he was telling him that Mja like
Speaker 1: my game when he's an executive for the Wizards. But
Speaker 1: we got tighter, like my confidence. That's what set the
Speaker 1: foundation from my whole career, because my confidence went crazy
Speaker 1: once I was around him and playing with him and
Speaker 1: him giving me off, It's like, yo, you got it.
Speaker 1: And this wasn't just a young player or event telling me,
Speaker 1: even just an all star telling me I'm nice. This
Speaker 1: was the greatest player ever saying oh, I got it.
Speaker 1: So it was a whole different conference. So best memory
Speaker 1: or battle against Kobe and any off court stories you
Speaker 1: have with him, oh man, so many. The first one
Speaker 1: that I really remember that Kobe acknowledged me was when
Speaker 1: we played in the Garden on a Sunday afternoon and
Speaker 1: he at the time became the youngest player and gets
Speaker 1: twenty thousand points. I was playing like ship in the
Speaker 1: first half. I think I had two points and I
Speaker 1: scored thirty one a second half and he came out
Speaker 1: and he gave me a five and said something to
Speaker 1: me after the game. He's like, well, how does the pistody?
Speaker 1: That was his first time he acknowledgement on the court, like, Kobe,
Speaker 1: you never talked to me something like damn he knows,
Speaker 1: So I am like for real. And then another memory
Speaker 1: when I went to Atlanta who played the Lakers, and
Speaker 1: we beat him at home and he across the hall.
Speaker 1: Under Monica was back there, Shandon Brown was back there.
Speaker 1: I think they were gonna time and he was like, man,
Speaker 1: can't nobody go on that ship? And you know, I
Speaker 1: didn't really talked to him since that interaction to year Joyce.
Speaker 1: I'm looking around, like who's he talking to? And he's
Speaker 1: like he's like, man, he's talking to me, like man,
Speaker 1: can't nobody girl out of him? Like he's like, man,
Speaker 1: you got the ball on the stream And he showed
Speaker 1: me loved like whoa y'all here, coach is talking to
Speaker 1: me like, you guys know Kobe got this or about him,
Speaker 1: Like it's totally different. Right. So that was the next time,
Speaker 1: and then um we were at Richard Services softball game
Speaker 1: and you know, we talked more that day than than
Speaker 1: ever before. And I remember he told me stories about
Speaker 1: like Michael Jackson calling his house when he was a
Speaker 1: great mentor for him and Vanessa picking up like somebody
Speaker 1: saying Michael Jackson on the phone, like Kobe told me
Speaker 1: out his own mouth, you know what I mean. So
Speaker 1: different stories like that, And I asked him when he
Speaker 1: comes to my pro and I finally got the courage
Speaker 1: and asked him, like yeah, and somebody from Nike, I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna say his name is like no, we gotta
Speaker 1: go back to l A. He's like, God, Jamal's playing
Speaker 1: on the come and so he brought his girls, he
Speaker 1: brought his whole family and came and watch me play.
Speaker 1: And that's my highest scoring game and winner of it
Speaker 1: was all because of him. And we just started communicating
Speaker 1: all the time after that in our relationship really took off. Yeah,
Speaker 1: rest in peace called the great one. You're looking back now.
Speaker 1: We talked earlier, um about coaching your son. Where is
Speaker 1: your mind at right now with with with an NBA
Speaker 1: coaching job? Interest you coaching your son? Obviously something you do?
Speaker 1: Now what around basketball? Obviously we know you're gonna continue
Speaker 1: to have your summer league and give back to the community.
Speaker 1: But what in basketball interest you right now? What you've
Speaker 1: been doing coaching? Like I've got an offers for NBA
Speaker 1: coaching jobs, I got an offers for NBA executive jobs
Speaker 1: from multiple teams, but I keep telling them my rather
Speaker 1: coach my son, Like this is a whole different thing.
Speaker 1: I love it, bro, It's it's unbelievable to me. Like
Speaker 1: I write out of practice plans at nighttime, Like I'll
Speaker 1: send them to you guys every single day. And what
Speaker 1: we're gonna work on. Like, I'm so invested in this
Speaker 1: and I'm so into it. I was cool being the parents,
Speaker 1: just keeping the score and right, but then when you
Speaker 1: get into it and it's it's different. Now. When I
Speaker 1: watched games, I'm not watching them who's nice and who
Speaker 1: got game? I'm watching on the play how they got
Speaker 1: to that spot. I'm like, damn, I'm like, I'm really
Speaker 1: at coach now, like you know what I mean. I
Speaker 1: didn't see this for myself. So that's what makes it
Speaker 1: so cool. And just being around to you. I used
Speaker 1: to see you when you were staying playing. I'm like, bro,
Speaker 1: you're gonna want to coach watch it, you know, because
Speaker 1: people don't understand when as busy as I am, bro,
Speaker 1: and I'm so busy, I always make time to coach
Speaker 1: my kids, and it's just a different kind of joy.
Speaker 1: I feel like. But I remember seeing you would come
Speaker 1: to watch yourself play, but you were still playing. I'm like, watch,
Speaker 1: you're gonna be coaches now. That ain't for me, fan,
Speaker 1: that ain't for me. You said you said it, you
Speaker 1: absolutely said it, And it's different because it's it's your
Speaker 1: own like watching it right, so like having him and
Speaker 1: little William Colrood Jr. Like as a as a my nephew,
Speaker 1: like coaching those guys and all these other kids I've
Speaker 1: watched for three or four years on the same team,
Speaker 1: Like bro. My whole schedule is based around my practices
Speaker 1: and the team. That's where the god like everything is
Speaker 1: based around that. I'm always same position. Yeah, same position.
Speaker 1: Um I t had a big, uh scoring game. I
Speaker 1: want to say, one of your last summer league games.
Speaker 1: Looks like it looks like he's healthy. Obviously you're a
Speaker 1: big brother mentor to him. You know where he's at
Speaker 1: in the process mentally, and and and and and his
Speaker 1: ability to possibly still play at this level. Yeah, he
Speaker 1: can definitely play at this level and help. I'm looking
Speaker 1: at the games. I'm seeing some of the guys on
Speaker 1: the bench. I won't say no names, but I'm seeing
Speaker 1: different people and it's like they're just out there just
Speaker 1: feeling the time. It's not that I can really making
Speaker 1: an impact. And I know he can make an impact,
Speaker 1: you know, And I know he's in a good place mentally.
Speaker 1: I'm sure he's a little frustrated seeing the same things
Speaker 1: I'm seeing naturally, you know what I mean. Like we
Speaker 1: we both see that he could be out there helping.
Speaker 1: And I still think it's gonna happen for him, I
Speaker 1: really do, but it's just it's messed up. He's in
Speaker 1: this position. But this is absolutely the healthiest he's been
Speaker 1: since it's been hurt. It's not just hype, it's not
Speaker 1: just talk. He's proved that everyone's playing. People that see
Speaker 1: him see that as well. Absolutely, man, we definitely wish
Speaker 1: the best for him. Quick hitters. First thing to come
Speaker 1: to mind, let us know your thoughts. If you can
Speaker 1: watch any sporting event in the history, which one would
Speaker 1: it be and why Michael Jordan hit is last shot
Speaker 1: with the Bulls because that was just so iconic and
Speaker 1: it was the perfect ending, and he had people forget
Speaker 1: he scored with forty three seconds left, and he came
Speaker 1: down and got to steal and had to score again
Speaker 1: with the game winter ye like, and I think they
Speaker 1: scored like eighty five. He had forty five of the points,
Speaker 1: So he scored eighty three forty five points with Pitt hurt.
Speaker 1: So I think that's the It was the perfect ending.
Speaker 1: It was if he had walked off, then had been
Speaker 1: the most perfect ending ever. So I think that's the
Speaker 1: one that vent v with you off the bench. Pick
Speaker 1: a starting five with your past teammates in their prime,
Speaker 1: their primes. Oh my gosh, you played with some motherfucker's too, man.
Speaker 1: So you sawing like Gray Hill, Pitty Hardaway prime. You
Speaker 1: got you got five teammates that you played in their prime. Chris,
Speaker 1: no interest, you gotta. I'm you know what, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: do it this way. It's gonna be easier for me.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do ones that were all ahead of me,
Speaker 1: so like older than me. I'm not gonna do the
Speaker 1: Roads and the CPS and those guys. So I'm going
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go with Scottie Pippen, a small forward. I'm
Speaker 1: going with Penny at the point, grand Hill m hm.
Speaker 1: Those three, Um, that's offense and defense. With those three,
Speaker 1: that's everything. Yeah, that's everything. And then places now trying
Speaker 1: to go everybody older than me, so I don't have
Speaker 1: to really put the pressure on four um Charles Open
Speaker 1: at the floor mhm, and at the center. Or if
Speaker 1: I could get another forward you could go with. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna switch it that. I'm going Steph Penny Grant pipping
Speaker 1: it open. I'm just everybody. Yeah, I'm everybody over. Yeah. Nice,
Speaker 1: And that's that. And that's Stephan Marbury, Yeah, Steph. I
Speaker 1: didn't play with Steff step almost And of course you
Speaker 1: could say CP blay all those guys. But I'm just
Speaker 1: going to rows too on your list. That's why I
Speaker 1: didn't go Nobody. Yeah. Yeah. Top three sports movies in
Speaker 1: your opinion above the realm mm hmm. I gotta go
Speaker 1: a pock Um. He got Game, remember the Titans. He
Speaker 1: got Game. I just felt like it was my life,
Speaker 1: like in high school, how you start blowing up and stuff,
Speaker 1: so I could really relate to him. To Ray in Jesus, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't think the three best is three. They come
Speaker 1: to mind. Yeah, it's that's solid top five. If you
Speaker 1: have to pick five dinner guests. Wait, I'm going Andre
Speaker 1: three thousands, I'm going my mom, I'm going pot mm hmmm,
Speaker 1: I'm going mom. Try all right, jay Z and Obama,
Speaker 1: that's a nice table. One album, one album you can
Speaker 1: listen to and repeat, no skips. Life after Death. That
Speaker 1: was easy. Yeah, I got the classic. All right, it's
Speaker 1: the last question. You should know what it is. Since
Speaker 1: you asked the show. You can have one guest on
Speaker 1: All the Smoke, who would it be? Yeah, you better
Speaker 1: know my mood. Oh, hey, you know what, I don't
Speaker 1: want to get him in. Craig Hodges, I and I
Speaker 1: talked to him both. I talked to Craig Hodges when
Speaker 1: I was doing the speaking engagement in Chicago. We had
Speaker 1: I got his line night I talked to about mood
Speaker 1: in the Big Three about coming on the show Man.
Speaker 1: So we definitely need to get both of them. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: we definitely need but you also if I have to
Speaker 1: slash d Hey, we need to help with the So
Speaker 1: my my ass is gonna be for you is we
Speaker 1: need to help with d Rose and be Roy. We
Speaker 1: know we might have to come out to Seattle to
Speaker 1: get b Roy, but you got to come out. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you gotta come see how to give be. But I
Speaker 1: would say just to come in, I would say, Mom,
Speaker 1: moved to d Ros good call. Yeah all right, Jamal Man,
Speaker 1: we appreciate you, but man, this was everything, And again
Speaker 1: we're definitely gonna try to make it out to the
Speaker 1: program impossibly sitting down with you in person and really
Speaker 1: highlight everything you're doing out there. Man, We appreciate you.
Speaker 1: We love career, Bro. Appreciate your dog, Bro. Appreciate I mean,
Speaker 1: great player, but even better person man. And that really
Speaker 1: to me, that goes a long way. Man. So give
Speaker 1: our best to the family. We appreciate you. And now
Speaker 1: you can watch your own episode on All the Smoke.
Speaker 1: Bro Hey, over and over repeat. Hey man, that's a wrap.
Speaker 1: Thank our guest Jamal Crawford Jack. Good show. We can
Speaker 1: catch this on Showtime Basketball, you YouTube, and the I
Speaker 1: Heart platform Black Effects. We'll see you all next week.
Speaker 1: This is All a Smoke, a production of The Black
Speaker 1: Effect and Our Heart Radio in partnership with Showtime