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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News.

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Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to another episode of the Odd Lots podcast.

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Speaker 3: I'm Joe Wisenthal and I'm Tracy Alloway.

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Speaker 2: So, Tracy, big news in a New York State today.

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Speaker 2: We know there's been a lot of AI politics, a

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Speaker 2: lot of data center backlash. I was really expecting it,

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Speaker 2: but New York State becoming the first state to institute

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Speaker 2: a formal data center moratorium, at least for one year.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so this is really interesting. Governor Kathy Hochel just

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Speaker 3: announced this and it comes hot on the heels of

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Speaker 3: there was another attempt in Maine to do something similar,

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Speaker 3: but that ultimately got vetoed by the governor there. So

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Speaker 3: it's really interesting that New York is, I guess, like

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Speaker 3: stepping up and maybe trying to create a temp for

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Speaker 3: other states to do this.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's interesting because, like the one question is

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Speaker 2: does this become a band, right, because we know there

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Speaker 2: are a lot of people that would just like to

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Speaker 2: see like anti data center politics is very popular. On

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Speaker 2: the other hand, you know, it's interesting. I saw a

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Speaker 2: story I saw a headline recently. You know, in some

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Speaker 2: states there are still tax breaks like they're trying to

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Speaker 2: invite data center companies it still has tax breaks to

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Speaker 2: and so yeah, and it's so it's interesting because we

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Speaker 2: see all these stories about like, oh, there's a compute scarcity,

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Speaker 2: et cetera, and yet evidently there's still this competition. But

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Speaker 2: basically data center politics are like really.

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Speaker 3: Influx absolutely also one of the rare areas of bipartisan agreement.

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Speaker 2: And how if you're in the AI industry, you have

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Speaker 2: to be kind of concerned that like there doesn't seem

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Speaker 2: like they have any friends everyone. Yeah, I mean the

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Speaker 2: ratings are negative. But anyway, of course, data center politics

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Speaker 2: gets into so many other things, you know, the anxiety

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Speaker 2: about job laws, energy apology policy, water policy, et cetera.

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Speaker 2: And it's sort of this litmus test, I guess, because

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Speaker 2: like no one really knows, like no one knows whether

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Speaker 2: AHI is going to be good or not right, like

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Speaker 2: will this be a great thing for the world or

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Speaker 2: will this disrupt the world in ways that we can't

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Speaker 2: possibly fathom. And you know, but also.

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Speaker 3: If you agree that AI is going to be important

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Speaker 3: in some way in the future, then it seems reasonable

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Speaker 3: to want to design like some sort of framework for

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Speaker 3: how data centers should actually get built out. I imagine

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Speaker 3: different states, different cities, different municipalities will have different ideas

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Speaker 3: for exactly how to do that. But it's interesting to

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Speaker 3: see people start to grapple with those requirements. So, you know,

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Speaker 3: do you have to have a closed sloop system for water?

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Speaker 2: Does the company have your own power right?

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Speaker 3: Exactly? Like? What are these requirements? What's the optimal data

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Speaker 3: center going to look like in the future?

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Speaker 2: Totally? Well, there a lot of big questions that this

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Speaker 2: touches on big, like just sort of in the macro sense,

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Speaker 2: like what are we building? What is the government's attitude

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Speaker 2: towards building things? Period? And I'm very excited to say

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Speaker 2: we literally have the perfect guest, Governor Hokel thank you

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Speaker 2: so much for coming on out.

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Speaker 4: Lots delighted to doing both of you.

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Speaker 2: All Right, So the big news came out this morning,

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Speaker 2: a one year moratorium on a big new data centers

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Speaker 2: in New York State. Why now is what was the

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Speaker 2: catalyst for this particular decision today?

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Speaker 4: Well, there's been really what I call flood the zone.

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Speaker 4: There's been a lot of companies that may have been

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Speaker 4: contemplating putting in plans for data centers, massive data centers

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Speaker 4: around the country, but all of a sudden, it seems

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Speaker 4: like there's been a surge, and I have to respond

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Speaker 4: to that. My main challenge is in the state of

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Speaker 4: New York, com many shure we keep the lights on

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Speaker 4: and making sure that people can afford to keep the

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Speaker 4: lights on. And so the challenges that I have to

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Speaker 4: deal with in this environment where everything we want to

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Speaker 4: do for clean energy, renewable energy, or all the above

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Speaker 4: approach or under attack from Washington. So I have to

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Speaker 4: make sure I'm managing our resources. So when you have

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Speaker 4: a huge company that wants to come in, even on

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Speaker 4: the somewhat smaller side, fifty megawatts of power required, that's

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Speaker 4: fifty thousand homes that all of a sudden are competing

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Speaker 4: with that consumption of energy. So on that front, it

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Speaker 4: was important to me. But also I've been studying this

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Speaker 4: around the country. A lot of communities are getting deriving

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Speaker 4: substantial benefits from these companies and they're willing to pay

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Speaker 4: for it. But I realized I used to represent a

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Speaker 4: very rural area of upstate New York and Congress. These

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Speaker 4: communities do not have the sophistication, They don't have the

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Speaker 4: planning staff, the staff that would know to say, you know,

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Speaker 4: we wanted you to give you one million dollars per megawat.

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Speaker 4: We want you to make sure that you're investing in

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Speaker 4: the grid. All these other things that could be doing,

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Speaker 4: but they're not being asked, and I think the companies

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Speaker 4: are willing to do that. So I want to make

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Speaker 4: sure that we take the time to have a community

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Speaker 4: investment framework to give to localities. But also you have

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Speaker 4: to be able to power yourselves you want to come in.

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Speaker 4: I said this in my state of the state back

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Speaker 4: in January. I launched the Public Service Commission to start

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Speaker 4: this process. They'll be done within this year of the moratorium,

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Speaker 4: so we can have certainty for businesses. But to bring

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Speaker 4: your own power source or you have to pay a

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Speaker 4: premium to use our grid. And those are the basic

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Speaker 4: foundations of what we're doing with this moratorium. It is

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Speaker 4: not a ban. It is simply saying step back, take

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Speaker 4: a breath, and get it right. Businesses want that knowledge

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Speaker 4: of what the rules of the road are. We've actually

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Speaker 4: had some interesting tweets from the builders of these facilities

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Speaker 4: who are now saying, hey, just tell us the rules,

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Speaker 4: tell us the regulations. We're okay with that and that's

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Speaker 4: exactly what we're doing, but also responds to a lot

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Speaker 4: of frustration from these communities, from people who don't think

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Speaker 4: that they're paying their fair share, that they're just coming

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Speaker 4: in and start forcing themselves in, and that's really annoying

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Speaker 4: to people. They've had enough. Americans have had enough.

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Speaker 3: So this is the US's first statewide moratorium on data centers,

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Speaker 3: which means inevitably this is going to be seen as

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Speaker 3: a test case or an experiment. When you think about this,

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Speaker 3: what exactly is it you're trying to I guess, prove

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Speaker 3: or disprove, or achieve, Like, what are you looking for here?

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Speaker 3: What should the outcome of the moratorium?

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Speaker 4: Actually very specific goals. My Public Service Commission will take

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Speaker 4: this year to devise a plan where we figure out

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Speaker 4: how to make sure that they bring their own power

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Speaker 4: or that they're substantially contributing to the grid. Secondly, I

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Speaker 4: want them to contribute. This takes time for a government

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Speaker 4: to get this right. Put a I'm establishing a larger

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Speaker 4: grid resiliency fund. I want them to make major contributions

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Speaker 4: so I can invest in the energy grid, the transmission lines,

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Speaker 4: and everything else that has been ignored for so long.

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Speaker 4: That's one of the reasons why our energy infrastructure is crippled.

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Speaker 4: The investments were not made. So you're going to contribute

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Speaker 4: to the locality. You're going to contribute to bring your

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Speaker 4: own power. And also this law larger dynamics, so that's

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Speaker 4: that we're looking for. Those are very specific. I have

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Speaker 4: agencies all working on them now, about seven or eight

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Speaker 4: agencies dedicated to this. I'll put the person power behind

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Speaker 4: this and we will be a template for doing it right.

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Speaker 2: Right. We know in some instances, I think I've seen

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Speaker 2: headlines like in Louisiana, for example, the big metas not

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Speaker 2: campus data center. It's like there's gonna be you know,

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Speaker 2: payments to teachers in the area. The idea I suppose

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Speaker 2: is okay, any place that's open for data center business,

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Speaker 2: let's make sure that we get these, you know, the

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Speaker 2: same agreements that are being put in place elsewhere to

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Speaker 2: benefit the community. How should we like more torria can

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Speaker 2: become bands? Right, something is like we're gonna put this

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Speaker 2: in place for one years and then it's two years,

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Speaker 2: we're still working out the rules of the road, that

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Speaker 2: it's five years and then you never have them. What

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Speaker 2: sort of like do you are you actively trying to

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Speaker 2: avoid this becoming a band.

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Speaker 4: I'm not expecting the need for a ban. I want

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Speaker 4: them to work with us. No, this I understand how

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Speaker 4: important AI is. We are in a revolution. This is

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Speaker 4: the winds of change. You're coming in at a hurricane

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Speaker 4: force and it's disruptive, but it also be very positive.

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Speaker 4: And I'll tell you my commitment to AI goes back

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Speaker 4: years when I launched the first in the nation development

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Speaker 4: of a supercomputer, the largest outside any private company is

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Speaker 4: being built in New York for public good. What does

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Speaker 4: that mean? All of our universities can tap into power,

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Speaker 4: computing power that is unavailable to them otherwise. We are

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Speaker 4: innovating new therapies and cancer working on it right now

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Speaker 4: up in Buffalo. We are also trying to solve some

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Speaker 4: of other societies other problems and even weather forecasting. You

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Speaker 4: and not believe the disasters I have to deal with this, Governor,

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Speaker 4: you heat waves, blizzards, floods, storms, and so's all kinds

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Speaker 4: of positive ways we can use AI. And I'll tell

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Speaker 4: it I just launched and I'm very excited about this.

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Speaker 4: I'm using AI to analyze every single rule, regulation, policy,

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Speaker 4: uh see, whether it's antiquated, outdated towny fees. We just

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Speaker 4: finished this. It would have tried taken five years at

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Speaker 4: the staff level. Did in a couple of months. And

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Speaker 4: I have over four thousand recommendations from the public who

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Speaker 4: want us to look into things. Plus I have all

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Speaker 4: my agencies now using this list that they were given. Okay,

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Speaker 4: get rid of these regulations. So I understand like.

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Speaker 3: Wacky old school stuff about like horses all out on

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Speaker 3: the streets and things.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, all kinds, like everything has to be sent you know,

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Speaker 4: in many rules under by telegram or it's on the

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Speaker 4: book la.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and you know even I think those you know,

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Speaker 4: pregnant women have to have a special permit to be

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Speaker 4: able to work after midnight. No, there's you know, the

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Speaker 4: fees that you have to pay twenty five dollars to

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Speaker 4: bring your dog hunting in the states, like inane things.

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Speaker 2: We literally and these were things that do you like

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Speaker 2: basically put the New York City the New York State

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Speaker 2: Legal Code Base said, the AI said find the crazy stuff.

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Speaker 4: Dump it in. And my team was like you sure,

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Speaker 4: and I said, no, We're going to do this. I

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Speaker 4: want to rethink government. I want a government that's not

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Speaker 4: on your back, but on your side, and using AI

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Speaker 4: has been powerful to do that, and I think every

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Speaker 4: level of government should use this. So this is going

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Speaker 4: to go on for a little while, but I'm going

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Speaker 4: to make dramatic changes using the Povey. So my point

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Speaker 4: is we are open to this innovation. It's what defines

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Speaker 4: New York, which why we're so spectacular. Why are so

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Speaker 4: many tech companies are leasing space at record levels coming

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Speaker 4: to New York. Why recent college grads this is their

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Speaker 4: number one destination. So I want to capitalize on that.

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Speaker 4: When I talk about those college grads, I also have

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Speaker 4: to mention something else. AI. And the uncertainty around this

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Speaker 4: is causing enormous anxiety because young people don't know where

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Speaker 4: they fit in the future with AI. Will they lose

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Speaker 4: their job, will they be displaced? Will the skills that

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Speaker 4: they thought were so important are now relevant? So last

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Speaker 4: week I had launched this a few months ago, we

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Speaker 4: had our first meeting with really substantial business leaders, leaders

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Speaker 4: in tech, people from academia, labor. Gathered them together along

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Speaker 4: with my team, and I said, we are now called

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Speaker 4: the Future of Works Commission. We are studying the positive

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Speaker 4: benefits of AI. What we need to do to make

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Speaker 4: sure that our students are AI competent so they can

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Speaker 4: take the jobs, but also how we deal with the

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Speaker 4: disruptive forces, the forces that drove I'm from Buffalo, drove

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Speaker 4: everybody I knew out of a job when Bethel Steele

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Speaker 4: left and automation replaced jobs in our factories. So I

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Speaker 4: saw that happen as a young girl, as a child.

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Speaker 4: I also want to make sure that we're ready for

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Speaker 4: it this time. So I'm trying to deal with that

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Speaker 4: anxiety that people are feeling, trying to deal with our

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Speaker 4: energy demand, making sure the decisions are responsible and we'll

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Speaker 4: get through this. But we embrace AI in the state.

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Speaker 3: So given that you recognize the importance of AI, and

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Speaker 3: you do want data centers in the state in the

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Speaker 3: right way, but that's inevitably going to require, you know,

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Speaker 3: additional rules. Maybe it'll make the data centers more expensive,

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Speaker 3: and ultimately New York is competing against other states when

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Speaker 3: it comes to attracting these projects. How do you actually,

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Speaker 3: you know, how do you encourage data centers to come

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Speaker 3: in with additional restrictions once this moratorium is over, that'll be.

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Speaker 4: Up to them. It's also up to localities. I mean

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Speaker 4: they should not go anywhere they're not welcome. I spent

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Speaker 4: fourteen years in local government, and I believe that the

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Speaker 4: localities to be the deciders whether they want this. But

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Speaker 4: let me tell you the larger picture, whether they come

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Speaker 4: here or not is up to them. What I'm spending

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Speaker 4: my energy on is focusing on the large, massive producers

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Speaker 4: of the elements for this to support AI. What am

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Speaker 4: I talking about semiconductors. Just last week, less than a

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Speaker 4: week ago, I was with the CEO of Micron, who

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Speaker 4: I was one of my proudest accomplishments was landing Micron

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Speaker 4: to come to New York, not another state where they're

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Speaker 4: looking seriously one hundred billion dollars of investment, largest private

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Speaker 4: sector investment in American history. They will be creating ten

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Speaker 4: thousand direct and forty thousand indirect jobs. Now, I will say,

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Speaker 4: I will work with you to get the power you need.

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Speaker 4: And I've structured arrangements with the New York Power Authority

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Speaker 4: and they're also helping me with my effort to bring

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Speaker 4: more nuclear to New York. We're waiting for the Trump

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Speaker 4: administration to hopefully green lightis on my massive expansion of

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Speaker 4: nuclear that I want to do I want to build

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Speaker 4: more nuclear in New York than the entire country has

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Speaker 4: in thirty years. That's how ambitious I am about powering

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Speaker 4: our future of innovation. But if I have to choose

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Speaker 4: between powering a largely vacant data center with the same

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Speaker 4: amount of power, I can have a micround with thousand jobs.

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Speaker 4: I can tell you right now where I'm going so

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Speaker 4: they can come under the conditions we lay out. But

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Speaker 4: I'm also going to be vesting a lot of my

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Speaker 4: energy on the good paying jobs that'll be there for

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Speaker 4: the long term.

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Speaker 2: When we talk about AI labor market disruption, like everyone's

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Speaker 2: anxious about this right now, all across the economy, and

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Speaker 2: we're like waiting right like we don't really know what's

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Speaker 2: going to happen to work. However, there's one area with

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Speaker 2: AI specifically where we know that there's where we can

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Speaker 2: already see the rubber hitting the road quite literally, and

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Speaker 2: that is in driverless cars, which is AI. And we

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Speaker 2: know that like Waimo had a trial here in New

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Speaker 2: York State and then New York put a pause on it,

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Speaker 2: and of course there's going to be put human drivers interrupted.

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Speaker 2: Can you tell us about why weaimo couldn't move forward,

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Speaker 2: and what that says about your your offices framework for

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Speaker 2: managing this disruption?

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Speaker 4: I will say I'm various in WEEIMO. I've been in

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Speaker 4: the vehicles.

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Speaker 2: They're amazing, They're fun.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, they're fun. But this is where I want to

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Speaker 4: get ahead of this before we have these disruptive effects.

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Speaker 4: What is the alternative for the people who now are

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Speaker 4: the ones recounting on to drive us in person? You

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Speaker 4: have to have a plan B. This is what we

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Speaker 4: did not have with the industrial revolution and all these

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Speaker 4: other the automation revolution. That's why so many people were

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Speaker 4: so discouraged when they lost their jobs, whether it's overseas

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Speaker 4: or as I said, automation, because government didn't step in

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Speaker 4: and work with the industry and prepare people for this.

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Speaker 4: That's what I'm trying to do. As the people that

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Speaker 4: are currently driving vehicles, are they able to get some

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Speaker 4: basic AI competency program that we put forward and they

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Speaker 4: might get a job that pays even more. Let let's

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Speaker 4: make there be a positive impact of this. So that's

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Speaker 4: the strategy I'm musing is what is the alternative for people?

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Speaker 4: How do we manage this? How can we get this

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Speaker 4: to all work? Out, and so I just want to

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Speaker 4: be thoughtful about it again, coming from the world I

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Speaker 4: come from where my hometown was basically a ghost town

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Speaker 4: when all the businesses left, you know, going out of business.

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Speaker 4: Last one here turned out the lights. That's the world

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Speaker 4: I grew up in, and I'm so hardwired to protect

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Speaker 4: the people of this state and these young people, and

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Speaker 4: I gathered ten of them in my office the other day.

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Speaker 4: I invited people who had lost their jobs. Literally the

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Speaker 4: boss had said, you're losing your job because of AI. Now.

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Speaker 4: Some of them had been studying computer science, coding. They

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Speaker 4: did everything we told them to do their entire lives,

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Speaker 4: like go into I can't tell you what young live said,

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Speaker 4: go into STEM, You'll have a job forever. And those people,

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Speaker 4: and especially women, are in the jobs that are most vulnerable.

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Speaker 4: I cannot have this disruption without saying we did everything

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Speaker 4: we could to mitigate it.

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Speaker 2: But just going back to the way Moo thing, for example,

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Speaker 2: because I do think it's instructive about what's going to

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Speaker 2: come for a lot of different industries, like the number

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Speaker 2: of people who would theoretically be a passenger in any

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Speaker 2: car is far larger than the number of people who

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Speaker 2: drive cars professionally, and you mentioned the industrial revolution center

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Speaker 2: and extraordinarily wrenching, but most people say we came out

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Speaker 2: on the other side as a richer, more advanced society,

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Speaker 2: and so like, I'm curious, like, you know, how do

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Speaker 2: you balance the interests of all the people who aren't drivers,

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Speaker 2: that would like a clean ride, that would like a

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Speaker 2: safe ride, that would like a modern ride, a ride

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Speaker 2: that potentially could reduce congestion, which I know is a

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Speaker 2: thing you care about, and historically it's like dark costs,

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Speaker 2: But then you come out on the other side better.

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Speaker 4: Here's one.

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Speaker 2: How do you get how do we get over that?

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Speaker 4: You're absolutely right, but you're looking at the societal costs

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Speaker 4: as being greater at the end. I'm looking at the

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Speaker 4: clatteral damage of the people before it gets there. I'm

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Speaker 4: the first governor to say I grew up in a

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Speaker 4: world where no one cared about the people and the

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Speaker 4: displacement and why a lot of people had to leave

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Speaker 4: the state because their jobs were gone, lost to foreign

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Speaker 4: comp and lost it lost automation. I'm just trying to

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Speaker 4: fight to not let that happen. I have to help

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Speaker 4: them reimagine in life without the current job they have,

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Speaker 4: whether it's the people that are driving vehicles, or whether

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Speaker 4: it's the young students who did everything we asked them

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Speaker 4: to do. They got a good degree, they went to college,

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Speaker 4: they're trying to build a life, and now they're told, well,

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Speaker 4: we don't need any more pair of legals anymore. We

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Speaker 4: don't need people to do back office, we don't need

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Speaker 4: administrative jobs. You're gone. I can't let that happen without saying,

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Speaker 4: but here's how we can get you a better future.

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Speaker 4: Here's how I can put you on a pass. So

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Speaker 4: then we can try to dial back some of this's

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Speaker 4: anxiety and fear of AI because I can't have companies

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Speaker 4: be successful but leave. They can be successful but leave

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Speaker 4: everybody else behind. That's not how we do things in

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Speaker 4: New York. We lift everybody up.

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Speaker 3: Should tech companies have to contribute directly to I guess

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Speaker 3: managing the labor market disruption, so for instance, paying higher

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Speaker 3: taxes to fund reskilling programs or things like that, they

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Speaker 3: should be involved.

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Speaker 4: You know, I have a hostility toward raising taxes in

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Speaker 4: New York. I've shown that I'm going to stand firm

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Speaker 4: because I happen to embrace people that are successful in

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Speaker 4: businesses here in New York, because they're the ones who

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Speaker 4: are creating the jobs, the other ones who are already

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Speaker 4: driving the tax revenues that allow us to have universal

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Speaker 4: childcare and invest more in housing and to deal with

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Speaker 4: this energy challenge we're facing. So I want to make

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Speaker 4: sure that we're smart on that front. So, you know,

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Speaker 4: there's a lot of ways to look at it, and

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Speaker 4: I have to make sure that again, New York has

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Speaker 4: always looked at as a leader. I'm very cognizan to

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Speaker 4: the fact that what I do will have a ripple effect.

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Speaker 4: But that's why every thing we do is so thoughtful.

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Speaker 4: I did not wake up one day and say we

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Speaker 4: should do this. I talked to industry experts. Can you

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Speaker 4: manage this? Are you going to be able to get

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Speaker 4: through this? And what they're telling me is just tell

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Speaker 4: us the rules. So technology companies have a role to play,

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Speaker 4: and if they want to be supportive of the entire workforce,

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Speaker 4: help us retrain people. Let me test that. How I mentioned

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Speaker 4: Micron before. Micron, when I was trying to recruit them,

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Speaker 4: said they needed nine thousand engineers and tens of thousands

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Speaker 4: of people in the construction trades. And I said I'll

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Speaker 4: get that done for you, I promise. So what I'm

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Speaker 4: working with Micron and our teachers, our teachers' unions. We've

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Speaker 4: now changed the curriculum in the nine counties surrounding Micron

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Speaker 4: to teach them basic skills that they would use if

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Speaker 4: they were hired by Micron. Now, this is like a

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Speaker 4: thirty year proposition. You know, kids in kindergarten may not

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Speaker 4: take a job there to lark twenty five or thirty.

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Speaker 4: This is what industry can do to make us more

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Speaker 4: competitive internationally. But I don't have to tax them to

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Speaker 4: do it. You should be part of a consortion with me.

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Speaker 4: And I also said this this morning. The companies that

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Speaker 4: innovated this revolution, which is changing how we communicate, how

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Speaker 4: we work, how we think, how we live AI revolution

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Speaker 4: have to have the capacity to be able to help

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Speaker 4: us figure out the reasons why we have to have

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Speaker 4: this moratorium. Use your expertise, your talent AI, use AI

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Speaker 4: to help us figure out how to deal with less

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Speaker 4: energy consumption, less water consumption, the less noise disruption. Why

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Speaker 4: can't you solve for that and the whole dynamical change

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Speaker 4: around this. So I'm challenging them to do that.

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Speaker 2: We recently had a pretty awful heat wave in New York.

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Speaker 2: And one of the sort of I think depressing things

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Speaker 2: about you know, New York and the modern era is

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Speaker 2: that when the temperature spiked, we actually had to like

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Speaker 2: turn on some of this sort of like spare like

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Speaker 2: fossil fuel, like oil generated plants, et cetera. I know

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Speaker 2: you talked about like this could be one area in

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Speaker 2: which you actually do have alignment with the administration in DC.

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Speaker 2: Why isn't restarting Indian Point, which the owner of that

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Speaker 2: facility says it's still technically doable part of the nuclear roadmap.

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Speaker 4: It has been decommissioned.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they already say it's They say it's technically still.

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Speaker 4: Okay because they've already been removing all the radioactive materials

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Speaker 4: and I'm like, I know they bringing them back. I

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Speaker 4: would say this, this happened before my time. One of

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Speaker 4: the biggest mistakes in the state's history was shutting down

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Speaker 4: Indian Point, which powered twenty to twenty five percent of

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Speaker 4: New York City's power, without a plan. B. If you're

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Speaker 4: truly concerned that there's been degradate degradation of the facilities

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Speaker 4: and there's safety issues or whatever, the reasons we're back

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Speaker 4: before my time. If that's real, just wait until you

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Speaker 4: have an alternative.

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Speaker 2: And it was so yes, and that's obvious now that

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Speaker 2: we say it now.

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Speaker 4: Via Well, this is so frustrating for me because what

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Speaker 4: I've done though in the meantime. As soon as I

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Speaker 4: became governor, within weeks, I authorized the building of a

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Speaker 4: transmission line hydro electric power from Quebec, the Chippy Project,

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Speaker 4: the longest underwater transmission in the country. And I knew

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Speaker 4: that if I could bring in an alternative source, we

434
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:06,240
Speaker 4: could replace Indian points somewhat. But guess what. While I'm

435
00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:11,800
Speaker 4: doing this, we have pandemic supply chain disruption, tariffs, war

436
00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:14,760
Speaker 4: with Canada, which supplies a lot of our minerals and materials.

437
00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:18,840
Speaker 4: And then I have a war on offshore wind, which

438
00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:21,600
Speaker 4: I'm finding to keep a facility that will power half

439
00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:23,440
Speaker 4: a million homes in Brooklyn. We should be ready to

440
00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:25,320
Speaker 4: launch with that in the fall. Offshore wind is a

441
00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:27,840
Speaker 4: great alternative for so I'm trying to find all these.

442
00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:32,600
Speaker 4: I also authorize a pipeline, a natural gas pipeline to

443
00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:36,880
Speaker 4: go through from Pennsylvania to Long Island. So I really

444
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:40,679
Speaker 4: am all the above, all the above, and so I

445
00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:44,040
Speaker 4: don't think there's an appetite for the communities involved to

446
00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:46,640
Speaker 4: do any pointing. Again, but I have eight communities upstate.

447
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:50,879
Speaker 4: They're begging for it. I have locations, I have existing facilities.

448
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:54,240
Speaker 4: I have four nuclear reactors that have been working successfully

449
00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:58,639
Speaker 4: since nineteen sixties. The communities love them. They're good paying jobs.

450
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:00,439
Speaker 4: That's where I want to be able to do this.

451
00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:03,000
Speaker 4: And so I have a plan. I just need the

452
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:07,000
Speaker 4: Department of Energy to authorize approval of a plan that

453
00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:09,600
Speaker 4: they would help us get a long term, low interest

454
00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:11,760
Speaker 4: loan to fund this. And I'm all on board. I've

455
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:13,520
Speaker 4: talked to the President about this. I've talked to the

456
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:17,560
Speaker 4: Secretary of Energy about this, the Energy Dominance whatever they

457
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,240
Speaker 4: call it, commission I just set in my office the

458
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:24,080
Speaker 4: other day. But I want this done because it's also

459
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:26,200
Speaker 4: I said this is the President one of my first meetings.

460
00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:31,120
Speaker 4: Nuclear often supposedly takes ten years for approvals. Said, seven

461
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:33,200
Speaker 4: of those years are at the federal level. Said, you

462
00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:36,680
Speaker 4: work on cutting yours, don't compromise safety, and I'll work

463
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:38,960
Speaker 4: on streamlining. Mind we get this done in a couple

464
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:43,200
Speaker 4: of years. Plus, where's the marketplace, where's the commercialization? Of

465
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:44,440
Speaker 4: the small modular reactor.

466
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:47,000
Speaker 3: Mine is about to ask you're looking at those as well?

467
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:50,399
Speaker 4: Right we are. We're going big. I'm building enormous facilities

468
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:53,680
Speaker 4: high capacity. I also believe when I'm talking about data

469
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:57,200
Speaker 4: centers or the next micron, show up with your own

470
00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:00,720
Speaker 4: small module reactor capability and I'll find the space for you.

471
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:02,679
Speaker 4: We have a lot of water upstate, a lot of

472
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:04,639
Speaker 4: fresh water. We have a lot of land. But it

473
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:07,119
Speaker 4: has to be the highest and best use of those properties,

474
00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:11,080
Speaker 4: not just using hundreds of acres for a couple of jobs.

475
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:12,840
Speaker 4: I think we can do better than that. I know

476
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:15,359
Speaker 4: we can, and I'm interested in driving that to happen.

477
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:19,680
Speaker 3: Since you brought up Trump and the administration, I understand

478
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:22,520
Speaker 3: you're you're probably more aligned on something like nuclear, maybe

479
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:26,919
Speaker 3: less aligned on something like wind. What are your conversations

480
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:30,119
Speaker 3: actually like with Trump at the moment, and have you

481
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:33,520
Speaker 3: had to, I guess figure out the trade off between

482
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:36,520
Speaker 3: like the fights that you're willing to fight with the

483
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:39,879
Speaker 3: administration and the things that maybe you know you'll leave alone.

484
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:43,959
Speaker 4: I'm very good at managing relationships, whether it's with you know,

485
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:49,080
Speaker 4: new mayor's presidents. That's my job. My job is the

486
00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:51,160
Speaker 4: governor of New York is to make it all work out.

487
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:54,600
Speaker 4: And I think being even the first mom governor, first

488
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:57,960
Speaker 4: woman governor, I have unique experiences that allow me to

489
00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:00,320
Speaker 4: deal with sort of warring factions all the time, and

490
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 4: so my job is to dial down the temperature and

491
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:06,399
Speaker 4: not create drama, just get results. And that's been my

492
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:09,399
Speaker 4: focus for five years. So when I have conversations, I

493
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:13,399
Speaker 4: often strive for common ground. Let's get Penn Station done together,

494
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:16,320
Speaker 4: mister President, we can do this. I know you need

495
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:20,240
Speaker 4: New York State. New York State does have video power, okay,

496
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 4: but I want this done too, so I think we

497
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:24,960
Speaker 4: can get there. But I also want nuclear, and you

498
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 4: have the power to say yes or no to nuclear.

499
00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:30,200
Speaker 4: So let's talk about all these opportunities so it's more

500
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:32,719
Speaker 4: aligned with it. I will say I have called up

501
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:35,880
Speaker 4: and said one time, I called up and said, I'm

502
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:40,719
Speaker 4: heading to the Gateway Tunnel area. You just suspended this

503
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:45,200
Speaker 4: work for months, I'll be seeing a thousand unemployed individuals

504
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:48,359
Speaker 4: who thought they had long term jobs, creating six to

505
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:51,200
Speaker 4: ten thousand jobs. What would you like me to tell

506
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 4: them when I arrived tomorrow, Because they're really unhappy they

507
00:26:55,080 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 4: supported you and they're unemployed. Two days later the approvals

508
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:02,600
Speaker 4: were back in place and they're back to work. And

509
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 4: so just having conversation helping point out the impacts of decisions,

510
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:10,560
Speaker 4: you know, sometimes can be helpful. But as I know,

511
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:12,680
Speaker 4: I'll always stand up and defend our values. I mean,

512
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:14,600
Speaker 4: you know, what I think is happening with Ice is

513
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:17,240
Speaker 4: a porn. I have called that out. What I think

514
00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:20,120
Speaker 4: is happening with all the healthcare costs that are, you know,

515
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:24,120
Speaker 4: destabilizing healthcare even in the rural Republican areas of New York,

516
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:27,200
Speaker 4: like at least the Phonics District. It's not a good

517
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:28,960
Speaker 4: political state. I've once said, I said, this is not

518
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:31,480
Speaker 4: good politics for you. You're going to lose in Republican

519
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:36,240
Speaker 4: areas because of these tariffs and inflation and all these

520
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:40,160
Speaker 4: costs of living going UPO said. So they're interesting conversations.

521
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:42,200
Speaker 4: I think it's always good to have the door open,

522
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:44,240
Speaker 4: line of communication, but always will stand up for New

523
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:44,879
Speaker 4: York values.

524
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:50,480
Speaker 2: JP Morgan expanding in Texas lately Citadel expanding in Florida.

525
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:53,200
Speaker 2: Do you have like a main theory of why we

526
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 2: see this finance expansion out of New York And would

527
00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:58,960
Speaker 2: you say one of your goals would be to grow

528
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:01,240
Speaker 2: New York's from Mark could share in terms of the

529
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:03,560
Speaker 2: finance industry or the share of jobs that we have

530
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 2: in this space. Of course it is and what why

531
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 2: is it? Why do we see this expansion.

532
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:11,680
Speaker 4: Elsewhere off The CEOs often call me and they'll say,

533
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:14,000
Speaker 4: you know, I find you knowl Governor, this is not

534
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 4: a new headquarters. We're still here. We're actually Then they say,

535
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:19,640
Speaker 4: we're expanding here. I just took on. I'm leasing more.

536
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:24,399
Speaker 4: I cannot get over the number of leases for commercial

537
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 4: space that have been let in the last three four months.

538
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:29,880
Speaker 4: It is extraordinary. No one could have foreseen this. People

539
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:32,680
Speaker 4: remembers a few years ago after them during the pandemic.

540
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:35,119
Speaker 4: I first I become governor. During the middle of the pandemic.

541
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:37,680
Speaker 4: People said, real estate in New York City is dead.

542
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 4: Like you turn off the lights, it is dead. It

543
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:44,760
Speaker 4: is on fire. So it's whether it's tech businesses financial

544
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 4: services just did a groundbreaking for American Expresses brand new

545
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 4: headquarters finishing off the World Trade Center site. That is

546
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 4: a statement of confidence. I spoke with the CEO yesterday

547
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 4: and thanked him for that. I said, I appreciate you.

548
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 4: He says, We're not going anywhere. There's only one New York.

549
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 4: That is what I'm hearing from businesses where you want

550
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 4: to expand into another location where your customers are, That's

551
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:08,760
Speaker 4: what I'm hearing. We want to go closer to customers.

552
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:13,920
Speaker 4: I get it, but this is home. This is our identity,

553
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:17,040
Speaker 4: and I will protect that identity because to me, after

554
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:20,600
Speaker 4: we lost so much industry and the manufacturing and the

555
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 4: ports and out the other drivers of commerce in New York,

556
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 4: we had to reinvent ourselves. I spoke about this this

557
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:31,480
Speaker 4: morning at the Domino Sugar facility where I announced the moratorium.

558
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:34,960
Speaker 4: But we always reinvent ourselves for the better, and that's

559
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 4: what we did with financial services. We'll always be the

560
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 4: epicenter of financial services, and they'll know that they have

561
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 4: someone to me who's going to make sure that you

562
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 4: understand the regulations, you know the rules of the road,

563
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:46,720
Speaker 4: and that's all these businesses ask for.

564
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 3: I'm going to do a complete one eighty from financial

565
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:54,240
Speaker 3: services to Democratic Socialists. But you know, we had Zorin

566
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:59,080
Speaker 3: Mumdani on this podcast before and since then, it seems

567
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:02,680
Speaker 3: like the Democratic Socialists have racked up a number of wins.

568
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:05,520
Speaker 3: What do you think is going on here, like, what

569
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:08,960
Speaker 3: is the appeal of that particular message, and how much

570
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 3: of it do you yourself share?

571
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:15,160
Speaker 4: It is extreme frustration with the cost of everything going up,

572
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 4: the knowledge that no matter how hard you work, you

573
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 4: play by the rules, you'll never be able to have

574
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 4: what your parents and grandparents had, which is the possibility

575
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:26,360
Speaker 4: of owning your own home. To hear the statistic a

576
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:29,160
Speaker 4: few months ago that the average age of a first

577
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:30,720
Speaker 4: time home buyer, if you're lucky enough to have a

578
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 4: home at all, went from thirty to forty in just

579
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:39,440
Speaker 4: a few years. Look how long that milestone that everybody

580
00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 4: else count on before this generation? How long it's going

581
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 4: to take to me? That hurts people. And I'm a

582
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 4: mother of young people, and I see the struggles they have,

583
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:52,920
Speaker 4: whether it's with childcare, something I used to work for

584
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:55,400
Speaker 4: as an attorney for Senator Moynian. I had to give

585
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 4: up that job because there was no childcare a generation ago.

586
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:02,040
Speaker 4: Those babies are now struggling to find childcare themselves. So

587
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 4: is it just a frustration anger toward Washington because they

588
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:10,520
Speaker 4: were promised our inflation was going down day one, no more,

589
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 4: forever worse? You know, all these promises that were broken,

590
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:17,400
Speaker 4: and ICE is only ice enforcement only for the baddest

591
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:19,840
Speaker 4: of the bad, the worst of the words. I think

592
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 4: they're just feeling so disaffected is that they're angry at

593
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 4: everything right now and who can blame them? And again

594
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:27,680
Speaker 4: we talked about AI. I'm doing all this and I'm

595
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 4: gonna lose my job to AI. So we just have

596
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 4: to let them know we hear them. Number one, your

597
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:36,000
Speaker 4: message has been delivered. We get it. We also share

598
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:38,840
Speaker 4: the concerns. And note there's people like myself out there

599
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 4: saying I'm going to do a billion dollar energy rebate

600
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:46,480
Speaker 4: to help pay utility bills. I'm changing all these all

601
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 4: the red tape that is holding back the building of

602
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:52,640
Speaker 4: housing because the reason you cannot afford your rent or

603
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 4: of our own home is because we didn't have the

604
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:58,600
Speaker 4: ambition to build more housing. We got hung up with

605
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:02,720
Speaker 4: laws like seeker laws. It's a nineteen seventy five environmental

606
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:05,520
Speaker 4: law which had its place at the time. At a

607
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:08,440
Speaker 4: time when I lived near Lake Erie, the pollution was

608
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:12,080
Speaker 4: rampant and people weren't protecting the environment, and industries were irresponsible.

609
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:15,240
Speaker 4: Smoke stacks everywhere. Sky was orange. I thought the sky

610
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:16,680
Speaker 4: was supposed to be orange when I was a kid.

611
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 4: So I come out of that world. But fast forward

612
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:23,720
Speaker 4: to the world where they just feel like no one's

613
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:28,239
Speaker 4: paying attention to them. And when we start ignoring these

614
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 4: cries for help, you get a change. You could people

615
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 4: assist demanding change. So here's what I want to do.

616
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 4: Change the policies, build more housing. The secret law outlived

617
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 4: its usefulness. I just got that through the legislature, and

618
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:45,280
Speaker 4: people said they it was called debt out arrival even

619
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:47,240
Speaker 4: the last couple of days of session and until the

620
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 4: budget was done, and I said, I'm not leaving town

621
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:51,640
Speaker 4: until I get this. I'm very aggressive when I have

622
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 4: my priorities to drive down costs in New York. When

623
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 4: it's auto insurance, I drew. I took on the trial

624
00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:01,239
Speaker 4: lawyers one on that front. The larger answer to your

625
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 4: question is, I'm focused on all these areas to drive

626
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:06,720
Speaker 4: down the cost living, housing being probably the top of

627
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:10,440
Speaker 4: the list. But also let's harness that energy. In my

628
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:12,280
Speaker 4: whole life, we've been asking young people to show up

629
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 4: and vote in higher numbers. And I was a little

630
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 4: kid during the Vietnam War when people said, why did

631
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 4: it be twenty one to be able to vote. These

632
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 4: young people are dying, shedding blood on battlefields far far away,

633
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:24,760
Speaker 4: and they can't even vote for the leaders who sent

634
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 4: them there. So when it changed eighteen, we thought there'd

635
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 4: be a revolution at the time of young people just

636
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:33,240
Speaker 4: so engaged, and it took um till now. And I

637
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:36,760
Speaker 4: think it's just the enormous stressure with Washington, their lives

638
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:40,240
Speaker 4: feeling frustrated and being denied the American dream, and leaders

639
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 4: like myself are doing everything we can to change that dynamic.

640
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:43,719
Speaker 4: We have to.

641
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:47,080
Speaker 2: I'd love to have you back sometime just to talk

642
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 2: three hours about housing, because it does feel like the

643
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 2: error issue that a new could explain. Expansion into other

644
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:57,000
Speaker 2: cities by these big companies, etc. There's a million angles

645
00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:01,560
Speaker 2: on housing. One specific thing think about young people is

646
00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:05,440
Speaker 2: one specific thing in the housing is from everything I understand,

647
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:10,279
Speaker 2: property taxes on a lot of multifamily buildings end up

648
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:16,440
Speaker 2: being higher implicitly than single family owner occupied homes, and

649
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:18,800
Speaker 2: so it's like, if you really want to build housing

650
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 2: at scale and you need to fund government, you need

651
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:24,400
Speaker 2: to have property taxes. We are sort of like penalizing

652
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:29,480
Speaker 2: the lever that could expand sort of units the most

653
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 2: should we revisit the core property tax system in New

654
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:37,480
Speaker 2: York so that we don't put such a you know,

655
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:43,040
Speaker 2: favorable rate on the sort of traditional single family occupy the.

656
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:45,759
Speaker 4: S I think it's more indicative of what's going on

657
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:49,359
Speaker 4: here in New York City. Statewide property taxes have been

658
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:52,080
Speaker 4: too high, but there's not a disparity in that treatment

659
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:55,040
Speaker 4: that you're describing. So that is something that the city

660
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:58,800
Speaker 4: Council would have to deal with specifically. But the larger

661
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:02,279
Speaker 4: question is I just go back to supply. I think

662
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 4: that we just you look across the New Jersey you

663
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:07,400
Speaker 4: can see the houses they built on their waterfront and

664
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 4: we did not. And the niviism not just from communities

665
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:14,760
Speaker 4: out on Long Island or in Westchester some of them,

666
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 4: it is right right here in the city. And the

667
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:20,520
Speaker 4: opposition I heard from so many city council members who

668
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:24,239
Speaker 4: you'd consider very left, very progressive, who were like, no,

669
00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:27,400
Speaker 4: we don't want that, we don't want to have office conversions.

670
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:28,800
Speaker 4: I mean, this was a big deal. I wanted to

671
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:32,720
Speaker 4: be able to convert empty office space into housing, especially

672
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:34,480
Speaker 4: during the pandemic when we had a lot of empty

673
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:39,919
Speaker 4: office space. Even raising the height requirements for buildings and

674
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:43,839
Speaker 4: doing more expansive thinking. I ran into so many roadblocks.

675
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 4: I had a project that was going to be homeownership

676
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:50,399
Speaker 4: for nine hundred people, low income individuals own their own

677
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 4: home in one part of this great city, and the

678
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:55,560
Speaker 4: legislator said, no, we don't want people like that coming

679
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:59,400
Speaker 4: in in this progressive city. So that's what I'm up against,

680
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:01,719
Speaker 4: and I'm still trying to break it all down. I'm

681
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 4: just trying to fight back because the collateral damages the

682
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:07,840
Speaker 4: people who are just want to be here so desperately.

683
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:10,640
Speaker 4: The young people came here with that dream of you

684
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:12,239
Speaker 4: can make it in New York, the best city in

685
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:15,360
Speaker 4: the world. It still is, always will be, always, full stop,

686
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:19,279
Speaker 4: but they get tired of living with five other people

687
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 4: in a small apartment. At some point they want to

688
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:23,239
Speaker 4: expand out. They want to have their own family, and

689
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:25,280
Speaker 4: that is exactly what we have to do. I'm listening

690
00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 4: to those people. I'm breaking down Bears Secret Live. I

691
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 4: would love to come back because I have a huge

692
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 4: platform on housing. What I've done already, what I have

693
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:37,799
Speaker 4: to do next, and it's it's a huge task. That

694
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:40,120
Speaker 4: and energy keep me up at night. But I'm going

695
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:41,439
Speaker 4: to deal with both dealing with both.

696
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:43,719
Speaker 2: Now, all right, Governor Hochel, thank you so much for

697
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:46,759
Speaker 2: coming on. Odd Latch will immediately start coordinating with your

698
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:48,680
Speaker 2: people about.

699
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:51,319
Speaker 4: A deep dive, and I would actually enjoy that.

700
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:55,080
Speaker 2: I hope you enjoyed this too. We would definitely enjoy that.

701
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:56,000
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for coming.

702
00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:57,080
Speaker 4: Thanks for having me.

703
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:14,279
Speaker 2: Well, there was a lot of fun talking to the governor. Yeah,

704
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 2: I'm looking forward to a three hour.

705
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:17,879
Speaker 1: Yeah.

706
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:19,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think we should do it.

707
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:19,480
Speaker 4: Absolutely.

708
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 3: No, that was fascinating. Look like, whatever you think about

709
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:26,359
Speaker 3: the specific move, it seems like it could be the

710
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:27,360
Speaker 3: first of many.

711
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:30,680
Speaker 2: Right totally, Well, yeah, definitely seems like it could be

712
00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:33,320
Speaker 2: the first of many. I think there are two ways

713
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:35,480
Speaker 2: to look at it. I mean, I think you could

714
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:39,360
Speaker 2: say that's New York State saying no to something again,

715
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:44,279
Speaker 2: right New York. You know the perception, including many people

716
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:45,759
Speaker 2: in New York. But I think it's like, oh, it's

717
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:47,920
Speaker 2: a bad place to it's a bad place to build,

718
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:50,239
Speaker 2: it's a bad place to start a business. You want

719
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:52,640
Speaker 2: to go to the Sun Belt, et cetera. So there's

720
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:54,560
Speaker 2: the one view. It's like this is just another and

721
00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:57,160
Speaker 2: a long line of things where like the New York

722
00:37:57,239 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 2: is not you know, embracing the future, embracing economic activity,

723
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:05,440
Speaker 2: or embracing business. The other possibility is that data centers

724
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:09,680
Speaker 2: could actually be very good. They could incentivize, you know,

725
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 2: companies to add to the grid. We've had episodes in theory.

726
00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:18,200
Speaker 2: They can reduce ratepayer costs because this is yet another

727
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:21,839
Speaker 2: company to bring down the cost of that capital expenditure

728
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:26,400
Speaker 2: gets distributed, et cetera. So the question is like, could

729
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:29,080
Speaker 2: in one year something that on the surface like, oh,

730
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:31,920
Speaker 2: this could become a band if it just is how

731
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:35,840
Speaker 2: government works, or in this year, could they find a

732
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:41,480
Speaker 2: model where data centers are clearly something that if you

733
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:43,680
Speaker 2: get the economics right, a community wants to embrace.

734
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:44,040
Speaker 4: Yeah.

735
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:46,879
Speaker 3: Absolutely, and I think that's what the one year moratorium

736
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:48,000
Speaker 3: is trying to figure out.

737
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:48,279
Speaker 4: Right.

738
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 3: The other thing I thought was really interesting This is

739
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:54,560
Speaker 3: slightly off topic, but just the using AI to dig

740
00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:58,600
Speaker 3: through for old, yeah, old defunct laws. I guess that

741
00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:00,920
Speaker 3: no one actually pays attention to anymore. It is kind

742
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:01,400
Speaker 3: of crazy.

743
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:04,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, just drop the entire code base in and say

744
00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:06,600
Speaker 2: find the dumb stuff like that is actually and then

745
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:09,360
Speaker 2: you're like, of course, have the human confirment, But that

746
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 2: actually strikes me as one of those things that AI

747
00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:14,960
Speaker 2: really is good at, because prior to that, it's like you,

748
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:17,480
Speaker 2: I mean, I didn't go, I don't. I doubt the

749
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:19,920
Speaker 2: product was literally find the dumb stuff, but like that

750
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:23,440
Speaker 2: is actually what AI is good at, find the dumb stuff.

751
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:26,000
Speaker 2: And then it's like, okay, here's five thousand things and

752
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:29,160
Speaker 2: then you review those rather than reviewing you know, millions

753
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:33,480
Speaker 2: and millions of pages. I do think the Wei Mo

754
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:39,680
Speaker 2: thing is very instructive as a thing to watch because

755
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 2: here is an ext weimo is AI right yeah, and

756
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 2: right now. The impulses. I get why politicians have the impulse.

757
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:51,120
Speaker 2: A lot of people have the impulse. It's like we

758
00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:54,120
Speaker 2: have to, you know, make sure that the displaced have

759
00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:58,040
Speaker 2: an opportunity to go. But on the other hand, most

760
00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:01,680
Speaker 2: people aren't drivers. Think a lot of people like the

761
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:05,919
Speaker 2: I think there's the evidence seems pretty strong that drive

762
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:07,920
Speaker 2: list cars are in fact very safe. We know that

763
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:11,080
Speaker 2: road safety and congestion are also very big deals. We

764
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:15,680
Speaker 2: didn't even get into the congestion tax, but these are

765
00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:19,080
Speaker 2: like big things. So it's like, you know, at what point,

766
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 2: how does the government make on popular decisions that it's like, Okay,

767
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:26,080
Speaker 2: there are clear benefits here, but they are going to

768
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:30,560
Speaker 2: fall disproportionately on one small group. This is the comes

769
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:34,239
Speaker 2: up over and now again. This is the Jones act phenomenon,

770
00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:36,600
Speaker 2: which is like how many people of Jones act jobs

771
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:40,799
Speaker 2: and how many people like and it's immovable. So I

772
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:44,399
Speaker 2: do think like how this resolves? If ever, is kind

773
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:48,960
Speaker 2: of like an instructive early warning about like how AI

774
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 2: politics will actually go down.

775
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:51,120
Speaker 3: All right, shall we leave it there?

776
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:51,919
Speaker 2: Let's leave it there.

777
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:54,520
Speaker 3: This has been another episode of the All Thoughts podcast.

778
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:57,960
Speaker 3: I'm Tracy Alloway. You can follow me at Tracy Alloway.

779
00:40:57,600 --> 00:40:59,959
Speaker 2: And I'm Joe Wisenthal. You can follow me at the store.

780
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 2: Follow our guest Kathy Hokeel. She's at Kathy hokel Follow

781
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:06,920
Speaker 2: our producers Carmen Rodriguez at Kerman armat Dash, Ol Bennett

782
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:10,680
Speaker 2: at Dashbod, Calebrooks at Kalebrooks, and Kevin Lozano at Kevin

783
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:13,200
Speaker 2: Lloyd Lozano. And from our Odd Lots content go to

784
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:15,560
Speaker 2: Bloomberg dot com slash odd Lots were have a daily

785
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:18,160
Speaker 2: newsletter and all of our episodes and you could chaut

786
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:20,120
Speaker 2: about all of these topics. Twenty four to seven in

787
00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 2: our discord discord dot gg, slash od lots and if.

788
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:26,040
Speaker 3: You enjoy oud Lots, if you want us to do

789
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:29,160
Speaker 3: a three hour deep dive on housing policy with Kathy Hookel,

790
00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:31,720
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791
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792
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795
00:41:44,640 --> 00:42:01,880
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