1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:08,559 Speaker 1: Family Secrets as a production of I Heart Radio. I 2 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:11,080 Speaker 1: grew up for the first fourteen years of my life 3 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:16,720 Speaker 1: on a roughly eight hundred acre British style estate about 4 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 1: a half hour from Philadelphia. It was an extraordinarily beautiful 5 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:23,639 Speaker 1: piece of land that had been pieced together by my 6 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:26,560 Speaker 1: great grandfather in the years leading up to and immediately 7 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:30,040 Speaker 1: after World War One. It had been farms before, so 8 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:34,199 Speaker 1: there were old stone farmhouses dating back to the seventeen hundreds, 9 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 1: some of them in ruins, stone barns, rolling hills, pasture, cornfield, soybean. 10 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:45,400 Speaker 1: There was a herd of three hundred Airshire cows, so 11 00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:48,440 Speaker 1: there was a functioning dairy farm. But basically it was 12 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:52,920 Speaker 1: a sort of British style gentleman's estate, kind of plucked 13 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:56,000 Speaker 1: from the pages of Jane Austen and Henry James and 14 00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:59,520 Speaker 1: floated across the Atlantic and plunked down in the suburbs 15 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:04,480 Speaker 1: of Philadelphia. That's Jenny Scott, a longtime journalist for The 16 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:07,959 Speaker 1: New York Times. Her recent book is the memoir The 17 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:14,120 Speaker 1: Beneficiary Fortune, Misfortune and the Story of My Father. Often 18 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 1: we long to unlock the puzzle of our parents, but 19 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 1: most of us never do. We wonder we posit, we 20 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:24,720 Speaker 1: have series, and when our parents are gone, there's a 21 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:27,400 Speaker 1: tinge of regret that we didn't get to know them better, 22 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 1: that we didn't ask questions or dig deeper while we 23 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 1: still could. But Jenny's is a story ultimately of literally 24 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:42,760 Speaker 1: unlocking a puzzle, the puzzle of her father, Robert Montgomery Scott. 25 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 1: I'm Danny Shapiro, and this is family secrets, the secrets 26 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:57,640 Speaker 1: that are kept from us, the secrets we keep from others, 27 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:04,600 Speaker 1: and the secrets we keep from ourselves. I remember there 28 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 1: was a hill that my father took us to toboggan 29 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:09,399 Speaker 1: on where he had clearly tobogganed as a child. There 30 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 1: was a a hollow tree that he had used as 31 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:15,640 Speaker 1: a kind of fort, which was still, of course hollow 32 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:17,920 Speaker 1: when we came along, and we were able to use 33 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:21,600 Speaker 1: it in its slightly decaying state. But mostly it was 34 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 1: a deeply visceral experience of a wild piece of land 35 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:33,080 Speaker 1: of extraordinary beauty. It was a degree of rootedness that 36 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:37,120 Speaker 1: I now see it was kind of unusual in certainly 37 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 1: in suburban American life, maybe rural American life more so, 38 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 1: But I wasn't really conscious of that at the time. 39 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:49,000 Speaker 1: I just experienced it the way a child would. As children, 40 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:52,240 Speaker 1: we accept our lives as being normal. Whatever they are, 41 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:56,720 Speaker 1: they're ours, especially back them in pre internet days, there 42 00:02:56,760 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 1: was simply no basis for comparison. But later, as a 43 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:04,840 Speaker 1: young working journalist, Janni was acutely conscious of her family's 44 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 1: extreme privilege, and she would avoid telling her colleagues about 45 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:10,800 Speaker 1: her childhood home. She would tell them she and her 46 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 1: siblings grew up on a farm in Pennsylvania. The estate 47 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 1: had a name, ar Drassm. This was just outside Philadelphia, 48 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:21,920 Speaker 1: an area that had been developed in the late nineteenth 49 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:24,880 Speaker 1: and early twentieth centuries with the wealth that was pouring 50 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 1: out of the city in its industrial heyday. But among 51 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:30,960 Speaker 1: the big houses, Ardrassen stood out as an estate that 52 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:33,720 Speaker 1: had remained in a family spanning one Gilded age to 53 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 1: the next. It had been built by Janni's father's grandparents, 54 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 1: his maternal grandparents, and generation after generation raised their families there. 55 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 1: The summer Jannie turned fourteen, her family moved away to London, 56 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 1: where her father had been offered a four year political appointment. 57 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 1: By the time they returned home, she was in college. 58 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 1: She never lived at Ardrassen again, though she would return 59 00:03:57,440 --> 00:04:02,200 Speaker 1: to it time and again in her mind. Describe your 60 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:07,480 Speaker 1: mother for me. My mother, it was a very i 61 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:12,840 Speaker 1: would say, beautiful, redheaded woman from Boston, from a different 62 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:17,480 Speaker 1: part of the country, but sort of socially in sync 63 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 1: with the world of my father. In fact, they met 64 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:26,040 Speaker 1: at a wedding at age eighteen. She was very musical. 65 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 1: She became ultimately a pianist, teaching and doing some performing, 66 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:37,240 Speaker 1: not on a large scale, kind, relatively soft spoken, good 67 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:44,039 Speaker 1: sense of humor, not highly certainly adept socially, but was 68 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:47,719 Speaker 1: not a hugely gregarious person who loved to be in 69 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 1: at parties and that sort of thing, you know. A thoughtful, 70 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 1: well read, musical kind mother and your father. My father, 71 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:01,400 Speaker 1: um was in some ways a much more seemingly more 72 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:06,599 Speaker 1: outgoing person. He appeared to be very gregarious, He knew 73 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:08,359 Speaker 1: a lot of people. I mean, he was out in 74 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:11,120 Speaker 1: the world more than my mother because she was a 75 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:13,599 Speaker 1: stay at home mother. For quite a while, my father 76 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 1: worked as a lawyer, and then when we went to London, 77 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 1: he worked for the Ambassador to the Court of St. 78 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 1: James from the United States for four years as in 79 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 1: special assistant. And then he came back and he became 80 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:29,720 Speaker 1: increasingly involved in civic and cultural institutions in Philadelphia. He 81 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 1: ran the Academy of Music for seven years, and then 82 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:36,240 Speaker 1: he was president and CEO of the Philadelphia Museum of 83 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 1: Art for fourteen years. So he had a very public 84 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 1: life as a sort of patrician figure in Philadelphia, a 85 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:47,040 Speaker 1: kind of throwback to an old world which he sort 86 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:51,520 Speaker 1: of played humorously. He dressed rather well in kind of 87 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 1: Saville Row suits after we'd been in London. And he 88 00:05:55,640 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 1: had a slightly British accent, which was partly just from 89 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:03,839 Speaker 1: growing up in mainline Philadelphia and partly from and and 90 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:06,799 Speaker 1: the specifics of his family which was very connected somewhat 91 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 1: to Britain, but also by living in England. So he 92 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 1: was a very colorful, well known figure compared to my mother, 93 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:21,120 Speaker 1: who was more private and um less visible. He was funny, 94 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 1: extremely charming, you know, a person who seemed gave every 95 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:29,799 Speaker 1: impression of kind of being born into a rather charmed 96 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:34,039 Speaker 1: life and living it out just like that. In contrast 97 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:38,840 Speaker 1: to his gregarious, extroverted personality. Robert Montgomery Scott was an 98 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 1: inveterate keeper of diaries journals. Jenny had always been aware 99 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 1: of these journals. They were simply a fact of life. 100 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:49,799 Speaker 1: Her father always carried around a small loose leaf binder. 101 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 1: As a child, she never went looking for the diaries, 102 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:58,120 Speaker 1: something that now surprises her given her repertorial instincts. After all, 103 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:00,680 Speaker 1: her father was a bit of a mr she longed 104 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 1: to unlock. But then, in her twenties, at the end 105 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:06,839 Speaker 1: of a long distance bike trip abroad with her father, 106 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 1: he turned to her, seemingly out of nowhere, and told 107 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 1: her that someday she would be the recipient of his journals, 108 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 1: that he would leave them for her when he died. 109 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 1: I was fascinated by my father from I think a 110 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 1: pretty young age. I admired him and um to some 111 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:29,240 Speaker 1: extent emulated funny things about him, and I wanted his approval. 112 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:34,680 Speaker 1: And he was somewhat enigmatic, a bit elusive. I don't 113 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:36,880 Speaker 1: think I could have articulated that as a child, but 114 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:41,160 Speaker 1: it was as though he were slightly out of reach. UM. 115 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:45,360 Speaker 1: So the thought that he, out of the blue would 116 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 1: tell me that I could have his diaries when he died, 117 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 1: not at some point in the future, but when he died. 118 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 1: UM was stunning to me, and of course a source 119 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 1: of great interest. But I also didn't know how to 120 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:01,760 Speaker 1: take it. And it's in the nature of my relationship 121 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:04,960 Speaker 1: with my father that for some reason I couldn't interrogate 122 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:08,080 Speaker 1: him at that moment as to why. So I said, well, 123 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:12,040 Speaker 1: why me, and he said, you're the writer and just 124 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:16,679 Speaker 1: tossed it off like that. The conversation ended, um, as 125 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:19,680 Speaker 1: far as I remember, and I really never dared bring 126 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:24,679 Speaker 1: it up again, because I was so enticed by the idea. 127 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:26,880 Speaker 1: I didn't want to run any risks that there was 128 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 1: that he might withdraw the offer, change his mind. Um, 129 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:34,520 Speaker 1: you know, that I might somehow seem to be eagerly 130 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 1: awaiting his demise. And another thing about Robert Montgomery Scott, 131 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:44,240 Speaker 1: he liked to drink a lot. If someone had told 132 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:45,920 Speaker 1: me that there were people who didn't drink, it would 133 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:47,840 Speaker 1: be like saying that there were people who didn't use 134 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 1: soap um. It just was so common and every event, 135 00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:57,720 Speaker 1: and you know, every funeral involved repairing afterward to drink. 136 00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:00,960 Speaker 1: It was just ubiquitous. And of course it was a 137 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:05,839 Speaker 1: time in American culture, particularly in that society, that men 138 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:08,880 Speaker 1: would come home from work and have a bunch of 139 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:12,440 Speaker 1: drinks and wine with dinner, and so it was just 140 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 1: a fact of life. Eventually, as a college student, Jenny 141 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:20,240 Speaker 1: makes a decision not to drink, an unusual decision for 142 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:23,440 Speaker 1: a college student who isn't in trouble with alcohol. She 143 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 1: had had a bad experience around freshman year when she 144 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:29,720 Speaker 1: got very drunk. Can you imagine if every college freshman 145 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:33,280 Speaker 1: who drank too much one time quit drinking, half the 146 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 1: bars in the world would probably have to shut down 147 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:39,160 Speaker 1: for lack of business. I don't know why I stopped. 148 00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:42,920 Speaker 1: It wasn't precipitated by any kind of crisis. So I 149 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 1: like to think that somewhere in me, I would like 150 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:48,160 Speaker 1: to believe that, somewhere in me, I sensed that in 151 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:51,960 Speaker 1: my family, where drinking was very common. In my father's case, 152 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 1: I now know he was well long as an alcoholic 153 00:09:56,040 --> 00:09:59,200 Speaker 1: at that point, but it went back generations too. I'd 154 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 1: like to think that I somehow sensed that this was 155 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 1: a bad idea and had the good sense to just 156 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:08,720 Speaker 1: make it all very clear for myself by ruling it out. 157 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:12,200 Speaker 1: But I don't know that for sure that seems right, 158 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:17,120 Speaker 1: because why else would a college girl that's without out 159 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:20,520 Speaker 1: in a huge inciting incident beyond oh, I drank too 160 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:22,280 Speaker 1: much one night, and I didn't like the way I felt. 161 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:26,440 Speaker 1: I think the other factor was that I had become 162 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 1: aware that it was difficult to have conversations with my 163 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:35,160 Speaker 1: father after you know, six o'clock, and it was maddening 164 00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:39,840 Speaker 1: to me. While he wasn't a nasty drunk, he would 165 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 1: sometimes say things that were, um inappropriate under the circumstances, 166 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:48,240 Speaker 1: things that you might have confided to him, he might, 167 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:51,680 Speaker 1: you know, say in the presence of somebody else. So 168 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:55,200 Speaker 1: we became, i would say, much more conscious of this 169 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 1: and attempted to talk to him about it, um completely unsuccessfully. 170 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:01,480 Speaker 1: A number of time is around the kitchen table after 171 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:04,640 Speaker 1: dinner when we were all there, and invariably he would 172 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:08,760 Speaker 1: talk circles around us. He seemed to make the case 173 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:11,200 Speaker 1: that while he understood that he drank a lot and 174 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 1: he liked to drink, it was not out of control. 175 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:15,760 Speaker 1: And thank you very much, and now I'm going off 176 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:19,680 Speaker 1: to bed. Was your mother in those meetings, Yes, she was, 177 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 1: And I think she was in a difficult position because, uh, 178 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:28,560 Speaker 1: my mother's posture with my father for a long time, 179 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:31,959 Speaker 1: I think had been somewhat to sort of intermediate between 180 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:35,040 Speaker 1: us and him. She wasn't an apologist for his drinking. 181 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:37,440 Speaker 1: She clearly understood there was a problem. She was dealing 182 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 1: with it in her own way, which probably varied over time. 183 00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:44,360 Speaker 1: When I would come home from college and after that, 184 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:49,440 Speaker 1: UM my father, for whatever reasons, that dynamics between us. 185 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:52,559 Speaker 1: We would end up having bad arguments about often about 186 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:55,760 Speaker 1: politics or something like that. And my mother told me 187 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:57,960 Speaker 1: later that she had come to dread my coming home 188 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 1: during that period. So I think it began to play 189 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 1: out in our adult relationships with him in a way 190 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 1: that it had been submerged when we were children. As 191 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:11,400 Speaker 1: a child, I thought my parents had a a good 192 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:14,160 Speaker 1: marriage and that we were a happy family. As an 193 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 1: adolescent and as a young adult, it became more clear 194 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 1: to me that there was um tension in the household, 195 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:26,359 Speaker 1: passive aggressive stuff. Never that I was conscious of knockdown, 196 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:33,719 Speaker 1: drag out fights, but um just uh an uncomfortable quality 197 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:37,080 Speaker 1: to some of the time that we spent together. I 198 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:40,000 Speaker 1: now know that what they had in common was background 199 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 1: and that he came to feel I now know, although 200 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 1: I didn't know this then, that that that was an 201 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:52,319 Speaker 1: insufficient basis for a happy marriage. It was no secret 202 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:55,840 Speaker 1: from an early on my father. I guess you would 203 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:59,720 Speaker 1: have said in that world liked women. We knew the 204 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:03,480 Speaker 1: way children know that he was flirtatious, and whatever that 205 00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 1: implied was not entirely clear. But the notion that he 206 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 1: was somehow um faithful to his marriage vows, that was 207 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 1: not a kind of given um. It was just something 208 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 1: we sensed in the way he interacted with people, and 209 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:24,079 Speaker 1: and particularly with someone who we knew very well, who 210 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:26,720 Speaker 1: was a friend of the family. The two families were close. 211 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:30,280 Speaker 1: It became a kind of private joke between the children 212 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 1: of the two families that maybe the two families would merge. 213 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:41,680 Speaker 1: But later, you know, when we were out of the house. Um, 214 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 1: I now know, and I guess I sensed it at 215 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:46,160 Speaker 1: the time that there were other women too that he 216 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:49,760 Speaker 1: was involved with. In fact, a moment when I was 217 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:52,520 Speaker 1: just about to graduate from college and I went to 218 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:56,400 Speaker 1: with a friend, my then boyfriend, to the island of 219 00:13:56,520 --> 00:14:00,200 Speaker 1: Nantucket where my parents had a house. Um, this is 220 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:04,480 Speaker 1: during must have been in the late spring, and I 221 00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 1: called my parents to say I'd like to go, and 222 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:10,040 Speaker 1: my mother said, oh, you'll encounter your father there. He's 223 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:12,880 Speaker 1: there with a friend, you know, go ahead. When we 224 00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:16,240 Speaker 1: got there, I called the house and he answered the 225 00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:20,920 Speaker 1: phone and he said, well, where are you? And I said, oh, 226 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 1: we just got off the ferry, and he said, I'm 227 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:28,040 Speaker 1: not alone, and of course, you know, endlessly obedient said, oh, 228 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:30,520 Speaker 1: don't worry, we'll we'll stay in a motel and and 229 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 1: he said no, no, um, come on, come on back. 230 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 1: And so we were going to go get some breakfast. 231 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:37,360 Speaker 1: We go to get some breakfast, and all of a 232 00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 1: sudden he emerges in the restaurant, red faced and very 233 00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 1: bluntly says, her name is Linda. And we proceeded to 234 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:49,920 Speaker 1: spend the weekend with my father and Linda. Did that 235 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 1: put you in a position of them keeping a secret 236 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:57,360 Speaker 1: from your mother? I believe it did. Um. My father 237 00:14:57,480 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 1: never asked me to keep the secret from my mother, 238 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:05,640 Speaker 1: but I don't know how I would have told her. Yes, 239 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 1: I became a colluder, an unwitting or unintentional colluder, uh 240 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:19,240 Speaker 1: in my father's um complex extramarital life. But it isn't 241 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:22,720 Speaker 1: only her father's affairs that require collusion. It's also his drinking. 242 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 1: I think one of the precipitating things that led us 243 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:29,960 Speaker 1: to take the problem more seriously and get organized to 244 00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:32,160 Speaker 1: try and get him into treatment was that my brother 245 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 1: and I went on a trip with him, a biking 246 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:38,280 Speaker 1: trip with him. I was in my very early thirties. 247 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:41,040 Speaker 1: We went to New Zealand with him with a group 248 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:44,880 Speaker 1: biking trip, and for two and a half weeks or 249 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 1: so we biked very hard, um long distances. It was 250 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:51,160 Speaker 1: a fantastic trip. My father was great fun and he 251 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:54,960 Speaker 1: took us and um we we loved the daytime part 252 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:58,680 Speaker 1: enormously and New Zealand was of course spectacular. And then 253 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 1: at night he would drink heavily and get so drunk 254 00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 1: that on like night number two or three, a complete 255 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:08,400 Speaker 1: stranger on the trip came to us and said, why 256 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:13,280 Speaker 1: haven't you helped him? It was a sort of shocking moment. 257 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:17,920 Speaker 1: Um what could we say, Well, we've tried ineptly, um, 258 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 1: but I think we were kind of shamed into or 259 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:26,880 Speaker 1: jolted into acting. So then we returned back to Pennsylvania 260 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:30,040 Speaker 1: and we we both wrote him letters about what we'd 261 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 1: witnessed and how we felt about it, and how we 262 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:36,480 Speaker 1: loved him and wanted him to take it seriously. And 263 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:39,840 Speaker 1: in the letters responding to us, he particularly to my 264 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 1: brother who did drink uh, and he assumed my brother 265 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:47,080 Speaker 1: would understand better than I would. I think he never 266 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:49,720 Speaker 1: thought I could understand what he was talking about. He 267 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:53,000 Speaker 1: explained how much he enjoyed drinking, how much of a 268 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:55,480 Speaker 1: part of his life it was, And I also know 269 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:57,480 Speaker 1: from other things that he said to other people that 270 00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:00,440 Speaker 1: he felt he was a total bore when he did drink, 271 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:05,520 Speaker 1: and that it was somehow this sort of magic elixir 272 00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:09,720 Speaker 1: that made life tolerable. And now I never thought my 273 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 1: father's life would have been intolerable. But I also know 274 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:15,399 Speaker 1: that at a very young age he had had a 275 00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:20,920 Speaker 1: dream um in which he dreamt of some red potion. 276 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:22,720 Speaker 1: This was that, like I think he said, he was 277 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:25,840 Speaker 1: like five years old, and it was a recurrent dream 278 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:29,119 Speaker 1: of this sort of magic potion that made him feel 279 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:34,000 Speaker 1: differently and behave differently. So whatever it was that made 280 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 1: him love it so much, it was very deep seated, 281 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:39,080 Speaker 1: but we didn't understand at the time what that was. 282 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:43,359 Speaker 1: So Jenny's father manages to white knuckle it for a while. 283 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:47,600 Speaker 1: He goes for stretches of time without alcohol, including weddings 284 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:50,639 Speaker 1: and large gatherings where he certainly would have been drinking, 285 00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:56,560 Speaker 1: but it doesn't last. Finally, at the two year mark um, 286 00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:58,480 Speaker 1: when it was clear that he was fully back to 287 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:02,359 Speaker 1: drinking and we were not around. My mother had a 288 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 1: confrontation and with him and said, you know, I want 289 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:07,640 Speaker 1: you to go back into treatment, and he walked out 290 00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:11,880 Speaker 1: of the house and never returned. After a brief stay 291 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 1: in a hotel, he decides to move back to our 292 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 1: dressing into a different house, what was called the Big House, 293 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:22,200 Speaker 1: the one his grandparents had first built. The fifty room 294 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:27,040 Speaker 1: house is at this point largely uninhabited. Jenny's cousin lives 295 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:30,160 Speaker 1: on the second floor and is raising prize winning bull 296 00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:34,280 Speaker 1: terriers in a kennel on the lawn. Jenny's father decides 297 00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:36,639 Speaker 1: to move into what had been the nursery where his 298 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:39,320 Speaker 1: mother had been raised, and turned the nursery into an 299 00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:43,080 Speaker 1: apartment for himself. He moved into the top floor of 300 00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:48,719 Speaker 1: that house and embarked upon rather remarkable restoration of the 301 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:52,200 Speaker 1: top floor that then spread to the ground floor, and 302 00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:57,080 Speaker 1: over the next decade he restored every one of the 303 00:18:57,119 --> 00:19:01,520 Speaker 1: public rooms on the ground floor to men condition for 304 00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:05,679 Speaker 1: and including replacing the roof of the house for millions 305 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:07,880 Speaker 1: of dollars. This was a house that he didn't own, 306 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:11,639 Speaker 1: but the house also had for him all sorts of 307 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:15,840 Speaker 1: emotional resonance, Having you know, known his grandparents and grown 308 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 1: up there and knowing what it meant to his mother, 309 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:22,840 Speaker 1: and so the whole exercise was very, i would say, 310 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:28,880 Speaker 1: emotionally complex. My father would have these fantastic Thanksgiving dinners 311 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:31,800 Speaker 1: the day after Thanksgiving, not to interfere with anybody else's, 312 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 1: in which he would invite every family member and all 313 00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:37,840 Speaker 1: sorts of other people, and the cast would rise to 314 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:41,879 Speaker 1: close to a hundred by the time that he finally died. 315 00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:46,280 Speaker 1: What do you think that was about those last years 316 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:51,280 Speaker 1: in regard to both the restoration and your father wanting 317 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:56,719 Speaker 1: to have these huge gatherings have everybody come to this 318 00:19:56,880 --> 00:20:03,160 Speaker 1: restored home. His parents had just died after very long lives, 319 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:07,760 Speaker 1: his marriage just ended, and he had resigned or retired 320 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:12,880 Speaker 1: from his his job, possibly under some pressure. Um so 321 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:17,320 Speaker 1: everything had changed. He had grown up in this world 322 00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:20,280 Speaker 1: of big houses, some of which had fallen by the wayside. 323 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:22,440 Speaker 1: One was a ruin where his father had grown up 324 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:27,000 Speaker 1: in Landsdown, Pennsylvania. One had been a so called cottage 325 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:29,520 Speaker 1: in bar Harbor in the period when bar Harbor was 326 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:32,960 Speaker 1: sort of like Newport that ultimately had been torn down, 327 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:36,639 Speaker 1: a place he'd gone every year as a child and ultimately, 328 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:39,960 Speaker 1: the family couldn't unload it after the war, after the 329 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:43,119 Speaker 1: depression and the war, and had to basically dismantle it. 330 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:48,200 Speaker 1: So he'd seen this sort of grand life and he'd 331 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:51,320 Speaker 1: seen its decay. I think he thought that if he 332 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:54,639 Speaker 1: could make the house what had once been, because it 333 00:20:55,760 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 1: was really pretty much the only one of those huge 334 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:03,400 Speaker 1: Bourbon Philadelphia Manson's that was still occupied by the original 335 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:06,160 Speaker 1: family and had all the original stuff in it, if 336 00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:08,840 Speaker 1: he could make that into something a house, museum, or 337 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:11,879 Speaker 1: something that could become somewhat self supporting, maybe some of 338 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:14,199 Speaker 1: the land would be preserved too. So I think it 339 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:18,240 Speaker 1: was an act of duty and loyalty and love and 340 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:23,159 Speaker 1: also hope for preservation. And finally it fed something in 341 00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:26,080 Speaker 1: the way he had come to see himself, perhaps what 342 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:28,919 Speaker 1: he had been bred even to do. And he was 343 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:32,320 Speaker 1: constantly being written about in the restoration of the house 344 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:34,639 Speaker 1: as sort of the lord of the manor, which he 345 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:38,160 Speaker 1: was ironic about that, but he was willing to play 346 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:43,600 Speaker 1: that role. It's ironic too, or or poetic maybe that 347 00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:49,760 Speaker 1: as he's creating this or attempting to preserve this, this 348 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:56,879 Speaker 1: monument to history, he's also decaying himself. He is self destructing, 349 00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:59,960 Speaker 1: and doctors are saying to him, if you keep this up, 350 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:04,320 Speaker 1: you're going to die. Yeah, and and he can't stop. 351 00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:08,760 Speaker 1: That's right, yeah about you know, just a few years 352 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:13,359 Speaker 1: into this process, he clearly did not look well, and 353 00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:17,480 Speaker 1: we persuaded him to see a new doctor because his 354 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:20,159 Speaker 1: longtime doctor had been telling him he was the picture 355 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:24,280 Speaker 1: of health. One summer, the thing that sort of precipitated 356 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:26,679 Speaker 1: this was seeing him on the beach and Nantucket with 357 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 1: his his belly distended. He was not a fat man, 358 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:34,119 Speaker 1: but something had gone awry and it was like a 359 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:38,560 Speaker 1: basketball And so he finally agreed to go to a 360 00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:43,880 Speaker 1: different doctor who had understood alcoholism and also understood the 361 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:46,240 Speaker 1: world that my father was from, because he was somewhat 362 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:50,639 Speaker 1: from it himself. And he diagnosed him very quickly as 363 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:54,200 Speaker 1: having cirrhosis of the liver, and while he wasn't willing 364 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:56,520 Speaker 1: to say how long he would last, he referred him 365 00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:58,800 Speaker 1: to a specialist who said, you've got two to four years, 366 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:02,360 Speaker 1: so you can either stop where you can be dead 367 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:06,480 Speaker 1: in two to four years. And he didn't stop. No, 368 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:13,520 Speaker 1: he didn't, despite argumentation from me and others. He um 369 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:15,800 Speaker 1: felt that at that point he no longer had a 370 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:17,639 Speaker 1: job that he had to hold down, and he was 371 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:22,600 Speaker 1: not married. He was living with a woman who apparently 372 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:26,040 Speaker 1: tolerated it, and he said sort of felt like, you know, 373 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:31,560 Speaker 1: I'm I'm in my um early seventies and I'll I'm 374 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:35,879 Speaker 1: gonna do what i want. Now, people who know a 375 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:38,359 Speaker 1: lot about alcoholism would say, well, that's not a choice. 376 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:41,560 Speaker 1: It's you know, it's an illness, and that's he may 377 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:43,679 Speaker 1: have phrased it that way, but it wasn't a choice. 378 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:59,120 Speaker 1: We'll be right back. Janny's father dies at the age 379 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:02,240 Speaker 1: of seventies six, and in the aftermath of his death, 380 00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:06,680 Speaker 1: Jenny looks around for his diaries. They aren't in his apartment, 381 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:09,400 Speaker 1: and at this point, as a working journalist and mother 382 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:12,120 Speaker 1: of young children, she's not in a position to really 383 00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:15,640 Speaker 1: go digging for them. It's been decades since his promise 384 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:18,240 Speaker 1: on the bike trip that he would preserve safe and 385 00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:21,480 Speaker 1: leave them to her and only her, and of course 386 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:25,000 Speaker 1: she's never forgotten, but now they're nowhere to be found. 387 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:28,560 Speaker 1: She asks his girlfriend, who says she'll take a look. 388 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:31,439 Speaker 1: A couple of weeks later, his girlfriend calls Janny and 389 00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:34,640 Speaker 1: says she found a few, but when Janny sees them. 390 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:39,280 Speaker 1: They're not what she'd been looking for, just four slim volumes, 391 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:41,480 Speaker 1: more like the kind of journal he kept on trips, 392 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:45,360 Speaker 1: not revealing, not clues as to the mystery of her 393 00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:50,320 Speaker 1: father and his demons, not the real deal. Jenny wonders 394 00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:54,080 Speaker 1: if perhaps the lifetime of journals had been destroyed. But 395 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:56,960 Speaker 1: then she happens to be in her mother's basement, the 396 00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:00,919 Speaker 1: house her father had left two decades earlier. At this point, 397 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:04,199 Speaker 1: she isn't looking for anything. After all, her father wouldn't 398 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 1: have left his personal papers in the home of the 399 00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:08,960 Speaker 1: woman he had left twenty years earlier, would he have. 400 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 1: My mother said, you might want to just see if 401 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,600 Speaker 1: there's anything. So my daughter, who was there, and I 402 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:17,160 Speaker 1: started digging through the letters, and at the very bottom 403 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:21,760 Speaker 1: we came upon this one single black volume, dating from 404 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:24,720 Speaker 1: the nineteen fifties, when my father was in his mid twenties. 405 00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:29,120 Speaker 1: And I took it back to New York and read it, 406 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:33,280 Speaker 1: and it was extraordinary and the most revelatory thing I'd 407 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:35,960 Speaker 1: pretty much ever seen about my father, and certainly coming 408 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:38,520 Speaker 1: from his own hand. And I realized I had to 409 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:42,080 Speaker 1: go back and search my mother's entire house. So I 410 00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:44,440 Speaker 1: went back and did that, and in the pretty much 411 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:47,399 Speaker 1: the last place I looked in this quite large house, 412 00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:51,040 Speaker 1: and in a walk in closet, a large walk in 413 00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:53,240 Speaker 1: closet in the back area of the third floor, I 414 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:56,800 Speaker 1: noticed a wooden chest with a padlock on it that 415 00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:59,919 Speaker 1: I didn't recall ever having seen before, And it was 416 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,520 Speaker 1: kind of boxed in with some cardboard boxes. And when 417 00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:05,600 Speaker 1: I approached it, I could see that the padlock had 418 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:08,200 Speaker 1: been left at one digit off from the last four 419 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:11,399 Speaker 1: digits of my parents phone number, the number they always 420 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:14,639 Speaker 1: used for combination locks. So it's kind of apparent what 421 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:18,040 Speaker 1: to do. I turned it the one notch and the 422 00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:21,920 Speaker 1: locks sprung open, and I hauled the chest out, and um. 423 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:25,760 Speaker 1: There were forty years of diaries in identical black three 424 00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:31,240 Speaker 1: ring binders, all organized chronologically, seemingly waiting to be discovered. 425 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:34,960 Speaker 1: The journals that Jenny's father meant to leave in her 426 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:39,320 Speaker 1: care and then, perhaps ravaged by his alcoholism, forgot about, 427 00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:44,840 Speaker 1: are extraordinarily beautifully written, not just the command of language 428 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:50,000 Speaker 1: and structure, but the deep, deep insight into himself, the thinking, 429 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:54,639 Speaker 1: the feeling, just how well he knew himself and his circumstances. 430 00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:59,760 Speaker 1: He wrote, I am now twenty six years old. I 431 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:02,639 Speaker 1: live in a beautiful formal house with grounds which I 432 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:06,720 Speaker 1: cannot afford to keep on a decaying quasi baronial domain 433 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:10,720 Speaker 1: of great beauty in an encroaching suburb. I am married 434 00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:13,040 Speaker 1: to a charming wife with whom I have little in 435 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:18,199 Speaker 1: common but background. We live our background. This is no 436 00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:23,719 Speaker 1: way to live. Have truer words ever been spoken? We 437 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:27,639 Speaker 1: live our background. We do this, that is, unless we 438 00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:31,560 Speaker 1: break free, or in the words of Carl Jung, until 439 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:35,240 Speaker 1: you make the unconscious conscious. It will direct your life, 440 00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:40,199 Speaker 1: and you will call it fate. He describes there and 441 00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:46,040 Speaker 1: in many subsequent entries Um fluctuations in his moods that 442 00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:49,480 Speaker 1: date back to I think he said third grade, some 443 00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:55,560 Speaker 1: periods of depression a word used, although he also sometimes 444 00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:59,520 Speaker 1: used other words like you know, euphemisms for depression, and 445 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:04,600 Speaker 1: also periods of elation and heightened creativity. Uh. And so 446 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:08,560 Speaker 1: he tracks these moods, particularly in that period and in 447 00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:14,720 Speaker 1: his thirties, UM with a real attention to what what's happening. 448 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:19,520 Speaker 1: At the same time, he made it clear from very 449 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:21,800 Speaker 1: early on in his twenties that he was conscious that 450 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:25,199 Speaker 1: he had a drinking problem and that he perceived it 451 00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:28,400 Speaker 1: to be a problem, and that he used the drinking 452 00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:33,399 Speaker 1: two I would say, mitigate the effects of what he 453 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:37,720 Speaker 1: would refer to as the mood fluctuations. Um that somehow 454 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:41,040 Speaker 1: the drinking enabled him to get through all sorts of things, 455 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:45,680 Speaker 1: including social events, the very kinds of parties, and things 456 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:47,960 Speaker 1: where he seemed to be so much in his element. 457 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:55,719 Speaker 1: He found those intolerable without drinking. So there was the acute, 458 00:28:55,760 --> 00:29:00,200 Speaker 1: acute examination of his own sort of soul and mental state. Eight. 459 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:05,560 Speaker 1: Jenny's father's recurring dream about the red potion he'd had 460 00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:09,480 Speaker 1: since he was a child a searing, painful example of 461 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:12,520 Speaker 1: the ways that deep down we know our own demons. 462 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:16,320 Speaker 1: We know them even though we can't speak them, and 463 00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:19,400 Speaker 1: so we keep some secret out of shame or simply 464 00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,280 Speaker 1: because we think we can't live without them. But eventually, 465 00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:25,800 Speaker 1: even if it couldn't be resolved or fixed within his lifetime, 466 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 1: Jenny now knows so much more of her father's inner world, 467 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,760 Speaker 1: mainly what I came away with it from. It took 468 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:39,080 Speaker 1: me months to read them. Um was this painful sense 469 00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:44,400 Speaker 1: of his awareness of his mental state, his struggle with it, 470 00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:47,480 Speaker 1: his consciousness about his drinking, and the way it led 471 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:51,800 Speaker 1: him to basically lie to us about something that he 472 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 1: was wrestling with privately himself. So in in reading these journals, 473 00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:01,560 Speaker 1: and I mean to know your father in this different 474 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:06,440 Speaker 1: way after his life, that self knowledge, you know, that 475 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:13,480 Speaker 1: self deprecation, that awareness of his own struggle. Is that 476 00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:17,800 Speaker 1: something that you're glad that you know. I'm very glad 477 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:23,000 Speaker 1: that I know this. I'm you know, trained as a journalist. Um, 478 00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:28,080 Speaker 1: So I pathologically curious. And he was a puzzle for 479 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:31,400 Speaker 1: me from a very young age. And I don't begin 480 00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:34,920 Speaker 1: to think that I fully fathomed him or that I 481 00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:40,000 Speaker 1: understand him completely, but I definitely understand things from reading 482 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:43,520 Speaker 1: that that I would never have have gotten before. And 483 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:47,040 Speaker 1: the puzzle to me is why did he do it 484 00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:49,280 Speaker 1: in that way? Why did he tell me in my 485 00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:51,240 Speaker 1: twenties he wanted me to have the journals when he 486 00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:53,800 Speaker 1: was dead. Why did it have to be when he 487 00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:57,000 Speaker 1: was dead? Was he unwilling to have any kind of 488 00:30:57,040 --> 00:31:01,040 Speaker 1: conversation which would have been unavoidable while he was alive 489 00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:05,440 Speaker 1: on these topics? Um? Did he change his mind? When 490 00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:08,400 Speaker 1: did he put them up there under with the padlock? 491 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:11,080 Speaker 1: Was it? Did he leave it obvious so that one 492 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:13,120 Speaker 1: of us would open it? Or was it just that 493 00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:14,880 Speaker 1: that's the way he used to take the pages up 494 00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:17,800 Speaker 1: and he kind of left it in midstream. It's all 495 00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:22,080 Speaker 1: a kind of interesting, you know, posthumous puzzle for me 496 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:28,200 Speaker 1: to try to understand what it means. Let's end with 497 00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:32,200 Speaker 1: Jenny reading just a bit from the Beneficiary, a moment 498 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:35,320 Speaker 1: when the whole family is together visiting her father during 499 00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:38,280 Speaker 1: a stint at McClean Hospital on the outskirts of Boston. 500 00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:45,600 Speaker 1: The air that afternoon at McClean was loud with the 501 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:49,360 Speaker 1: din of cicadas. The five of us embarked awkwardly on 502 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:52,440 Speaker 1: a stroll along a path that wound through a wood 503 00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:55,800 Speaker 1: on the hospital grounds. We fell into the old order 504 00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:58,840 Speaker 1: of march, my father in the lead, my mother's scurrying 505 00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:01,680 Speaker 1: to keep pace, three of us dawdling at the rear. 506 00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:05,200 Speaker 1: At one point I caught up with my father to 507 00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:08,440 Speaker 1: break the silence. I asked what he'd been reading. I'd 508 00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:11,080 Speaker 1: sent him a package of magazines and books the morning 509 00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:14,960 Speaker 1: after we'd dropped him off a guilt offering. He had 510 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:17,400 Speaker 1: been reading material put out by a A He said, 511 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:20,920 Speaker 1: had he learned things about alcoholism that he hadn't known? 512 00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:26,120 Speaker 1: I asked, Oh, yes, he said, like what. He was quiet. 513 00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:29,400 Speaker 1: I glanced at him sideways, thinking he might be weighing 514 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:34,240 Speaker 1: the choice between degrees of self revelation the duplicitousness and 515 00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:38,600 Speaker 1: deception involved. He answered, looking straight ahead. He left it 516 00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:51,200 Speaker 1: at that. I'd like to thank my guest Janny Scott, 517 00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:54,800 Speaker 1: for telling us her story here today. You can learn 518 00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:59,680 Speaker 1: more about Jenny's memoir That Beneficiary, Fortune, Misfortune, and the 519 00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:05,040 Speaker 1: Story of My Father by visiting Janny Scott dot com. 520 00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:08,600 Speaker 1: Family Secrets is an I Heart Media production. Dylan Fagan 521 00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:12,720 Speaker 1: is the supervising producer, and Julie Douglas and Bethan Macaluso 522 00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:16,640 Speaker 1: are executive producers. If you have a family secret you'd 523 00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:18,760 Speaker 1: like to share, you can get in touch with us 524 00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:22,880 Speaker 1: at listener mail at Family Secrets podcast dot com. You 525 00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:27,200 Speaker 1: can also find us on Instagram at Danny Ryder, Facebook 526 00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:31,160 Speaker 1: at Family Secrets Pod, and Twitter at fami Secrets Pod. 527 00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:51,160 Speaker 1: For more about my book Inheritance, visit Danny Shapiro dot com. 528 00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:53,520 Speaker 1: For more podcasts. For my Heart Radio, visit the I 529 00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:56,680 Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to 530 00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:57,560 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.