1 00:00:04,519 --> 00:00:07,200 Speaker 1: It's the big take from Bloomberg News and I Heart Radio. 2 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 1: I'm West Consolva today. Twitter. What the heck is Elon 3 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:27,639 Speaker 1: Musk doing over there? H Yeah, the Elon Musk thought 4 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:31,840 Speaker 1: he'd march into twitter San Francisco headquarters last October and 5 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:36,080 Speaker 1: just turn that company right around with charisma and sheer 6 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 1: force of will. Well, he's found out otherwise in dramatic fashion. 7 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:45,479 Speaker 1: The nonstopped torrent of tweets and abrupt decisions from the 8 00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:51,720 Speaker 1: new owner have enraged users and send advertisers fleeing. Muska 9 00:00:51,720 --> 00:00:53,959 Speaker 1: has always run Tesla and his other companies in an 10 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 1: unconventional way, so at first it seemed like maybe he 11 00:00:57,400 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 1: was just doing his thing. But now, after weeks of chaos, 12 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 1: it's reasonable to wonder if there actually is any method 13 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:11,840 Speaker 1: here or just madness. My colleagues Bradstone, Sarah Fryar, and 14 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:16,000 Speaker 1: Kurt Wagner have been reporting on this saga's every twist 15 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 1: and turn. They're here to help us understand what Musk 16 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:23,200 Speaker 1: is thinking and if his preoccupation with Twitter threatens the 17 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:29,760 Speaker 1: future of his other companies. Sarah, Kurt, Brad thanks so 18 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 1: much for being here. Thank you for having us, Thanks 19 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:36,200 Speaker 1: for having us. Okay, So in December, the three of 20 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:38,640 Speaker 1: you together wrote the story with the greatest headline ever, 21 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:43,120 Speaker 1: Elon Musk's Twitter is a Shakespearean psycho drama set in 22 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 1: Silicon Valley. And in the few weeks since that story, 23 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:51,680 Speaker 1: things in Musk World have only gotten like weirder. Brad, 24 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 1: let me start with you, what exactly is going on? 25 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:58,760 Speaker 1: And why did it have to be so strange? It 26 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 1: really didn't have to be this strange? And I think 27 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:04,520 Speaker 1: this is the takeaway from our story. You know, Ellen 28 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 1: is a right now, at least as a bad owner 29 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 1: of Twitter. He's almost a bad user of Twitter. His 30 00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:14,400 Speaker 1: impulses kind of clash with some of the bad sort 31 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:18,520 Speaker 1: of feedback loops of Twitter. He can't resist playing to 32 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:22,799 Speaker 1: the crowd, and unfortunately that's kind of antithetical to running 33 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:25,079 Speaker 1: a healthy company. And so we see again and again 34 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:29,919 Speaker 1: him tweeting things that you know, end up alienating advertisers, 35 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:34,119 Speaker 1: alienate users. I think there's a reason why CEOs are 36 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 1: a kind of studiously a political crew, and Ellen has 37 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:41,560 Speaker 1: just been unable to suppress his own impulses on Twitter, 38 00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:45,080 Speaker 1: and it's it's hurt the company. Advertisers are fleeing you 39 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 1: just get the visceral sense that it's a more chaotic, 40 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 1: more unpleasant place to spend time. That's really saying something 41 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:56,640 Speaker 1: because it was always unpleasant and chaotic. That's a really 42 00:02:56,680 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 1: interesting point because before he made his bid to buy 43 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 1: the company, he was sort of a Twitter power user 44 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:04,520 Speaker 1: and thought, well, hey, if I'm so good on Twitter, 45 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:06,880 Speaker 1: maybe I could run it better. But a lot of 46 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:09,960 Speaker 1: the things he said about being a free speech absolutist 47 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:12,680 Speaker 1: turned out to be sort of yeah, I get to 48 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:15,080 Speaker 1: say whatever I want, but if anyone else is something 49 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 1: I don't like, then he has now the power to 50 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:19,920 Speaker 1: cut them off. Yeah, that's right. We all saying the 51 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 1: power corrupts. I mean, we've sort of seen that with 52 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 1: Ellen on Twitter. The way he ousted the owner of 53 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:29,120 Speaker 1: the account that tracked his jet, the way in which 54 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:33,760 Speaker 1: some Twitter accounts and an unauthorized way track SpaceX launches 55 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 1: seem to have had their accounts frozen, the way in 56 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:39,920 Speaker 1: which he's fired the trust and safety staff at Twitter. 57 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 1: All of it's fomented the kind of chaos that's heard 58 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 1: the company. If I could jump in, I mean, I 59 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 1: think one of the things that stood out in all 60 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 1: of our reporting was that this is a guy who, 61 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 1: while a huge power user of Twitter and someone who 62 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 1: clearly understands the product as from a user standpoint, he 63 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:59,839 Speaker 1: really showed up without much of a plan to run Twitter, right. 64 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:02,520 Speaker 1: He sort of had this vague idea of what he 65 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:04,640 Speaker 1: wanted to do with bots or what he wanted to 66 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:08,119 Speaker 1: do with you know, quote free speech. But other than that, 67 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 1: he didn't I think, think through a lot of the 68 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 1: logistics and specifics that come with running a company like this, 69 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:17,520 Speaker 1: And you know, for someone who is or was the 70 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 1: richest man in the world, for someone who had seemingly 71 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 1: had these other great successes between Tesla and SpaceX and 72 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 1: and all these other projects he's doing, I think that's surprised. 73 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:30,480 Speaker 1: I'll speak for myself. I mean that sort of surprised me. 74 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:33,520 Speaker 1: Right at the very least, I thought, Okay, maybe he's 75 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:36,200 Speaker 1: got an unconventional plan, but at least he's got a plan. 76 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:39,000 Speaker 1: And I think when we were talking with sources for 77 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 1: the story, we just sort of realized that he was 78 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:44,479 Speaker 1: winging it a lot more than I think any of 79 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 1: us would have expected him to do. How did the 80 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 1: whole process of Musk purchasing Twitter work out, Because it 81 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:57,600 Speaker 1: seemed incredibly hectic from the outside. Well, if you look 82 00:04:57,640 --> 00:05:01,840 Speaker 1: at the messages that were exchanged between Musk and Twitter's 83 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 1: board and Twitter CEO at the time, parag Agera Wald, 84 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:07,599 Speaker 1: it seems like he really decided to buy it on 85 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:11,120 Speaker 1: a win because he was upset with the process for 86 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 1: joining Twitter's board and some of the precursors to that decision, 87 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:18,040 Speaker 1: and he had already decided to be a big shareholder, 88 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 1: but it was really around the question of whether he 89 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:25,479 Speaker 1: would join the board that he got upset and said 90 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:27,680 Speaker 1: this isn't worth my time. I'm just going to buy 91 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:31,160 Speaker 1: your company, expect and offer a SAP and then he 92 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:33,320 Speaker 1: had to stick with it. I mean, he made that 93 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:37,839 Speaker 1: offer in such a whirlwind time frame that it was 94 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 1: so seller friendly, as he described it. So he really 95 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 1: just set himself up for this situation that was done 96 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:52,159 Speaker 1: in a matter of a fight and turned into a 97 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 1: bigger fight and then continues to be a fight. But 98 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 1: I think it's also worth noting. I mean, while it 99 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 1: does feel and it did feel like he sort of 100 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 1: turned on a dime in terms of joining the board 101 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:04,680 Speaker 1: and then suddenly saying no, no no, no, I don't want 102 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 1: to do that. I want to buy this company. He 103 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 1: clearly came in with having thought about Twitter for a 104 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:13,359 Speaker 1: long time, because he had been buying Twitter stock daily 105 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 1: for like two months, right, So it's not like he 106 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:18,360 Speaker 1: suddenly showed up one morning and said, oh, this would 107 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 1: be a cool idea. He'd clearly been thinking about something 108 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 1: with Twitter. But I don't know if he expected the 109 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 1: board to actually accept his offer for Twitter. I kind 110 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 1: of get the sense that maybe he was throwing it 111 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:32,600 Speaker 1: out there, almost trying to apply pressure, just kind of 112 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:36,120 Speaker 1: like be a little mischievous, and suddenly they said yes. 113 00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:38,039 Speaker 1: And at the time, when he's the richest man in 114 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:40,520 Speaker 1: the world, it's like, well, you know, okay, maybe I 115 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:42,480 Speaker 1: didn't expect it, but like, sure I could do that. 116 00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:45,599 Speaker 1: I think what complicated things, of course, was everything that 117 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:48,800 Speaker 1: happened shortly after with the economy, and suddenly this like 118 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 1: kind of fun side project thing that he was thinking 119 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 1: about became much more expensive for him than he anticipated. 120 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:57,360 Speaker 1: And as we known in our story, Twitter was profitable 121 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:05,800 Speaker 1: the first quarter of two and after Musk's purchase, he's 122 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:09,479 Speaker 1: been talking about bankruptcy. He's been saying that Twitter is 123 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 1: losing on an order of four million a day, is 124 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 1: unsustainable and part of the reason for that is Twitter 125 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:19,160 Speaker 1: has now assumed the debt from that forty four billion 126 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 1: transaction to purchase the company, and the first bill for 127 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 1: that debt is coming due at the end of this month. 128 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 1: So it's a really precarious situation now that the company 129 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 1: is in, which explains why Musk hads do layouts in 130 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 1: the order of magnitude that he did, and why he's 131 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 1: been making other unusual decisions like not paying the rent. 132 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 1: I think that, you know, someone described it to me 133 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:48,120 Speaker 1: this way. They were like, Elon Musk is treating Twitter 134 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 1: like it's an engineering problem. But Twitter is a human problem, right. 135 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 1: Twitter is culture, Twitter is speech, it is politics. It 136 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 1: is all of these things that require nuance and human 137 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:05,120 Speaker 1: understanding about relationships and things that are just different challenges, 138 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 1: I should say, than you know, building a rocket or 139 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 1: building a car. And I think there's some speculation or 140 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 1: criticism from people who have worked at Twitter for a 141 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 1: long time that they feel that he's just approaching this 142 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:20,400 Speaker 1: problem in the wrong way. He's approaching it as an engineer. 143 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:23,080 Speaker 1: He's not approaching it in sort of like the soft 144 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 1: skills needed for Twitter. And I think it's sort of 145 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 1: an interesting critique because I don't disagree with it. I 146 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:32,959 Speaker 1: do think like a lot of Twitter's problems as much 147 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:35,040 Speaker 1: as they struggle with product, and sure they do have 148 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:38,280 Speaker 1: engineering needs, of course, but I do think a lot 149 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:41,200 Speaker 1: of the biggest stuff they deal with is not related 150 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:44,719 Speaker 1: to the technology itself. It's related to kind of human behavior, 151 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 1: and that is what shatters all the hope. Sarah, Kurt 152 00:08:49,880 --> 00:09:02,480 Speaker 1: and Bread please stick around. We'll keep talking after the break. Right. 153 00:09:02,559 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 1: You said that Alamos is kind of a bad CEO 154 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 1: of Twitter right now. He indulges his whims, He makes 155 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:12,960 Speaker 1: theoretic decisions. Twitter was never the best run company. Um 156 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:16,560 Speaker 1: was it fixable by anyone? Like, let's say more, you know, 157 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:19,760 Speaker 1: sort of straight lace CEO came in to right the 158 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:22,480 Speaker 1: ship there, Um, what are the big challenges that the 159 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 1: company would have faced? What needs to be fixed to 160 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 1: make it viable in the future? Print of all West, 161 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:30,120 Speaker 1: let me turn it around and say, you know, in 162 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:32,680 Speaker 1: two thousand twelve, we wrote a cover story in Business 163 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:36,000 Speaker 1: Week calling Twitter the company that Couldn't kill itself, And 164 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:39,840 Speaker 1: the fundamental point was that as poorly run as this 165 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 1: thing is, there is something that's so fundamentally addictive about 166 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:46,920 Speaker 1: it and useful about it to a certain small, you know, 167 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:52,440 Speaker 1: demographically narrow subsection of professionals that it really can't go away. Okay, 168 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:56,200 Speaker 1: so that's the kind of basis point. It's still, you know, 169 00:09:56,360 --> 00:10:00,280 Speaker 1: ridiculously alluring for people who just can't seem to turn way, 170 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:03,400 Speaker 1: even though they know it's destructive to their personal lives. 171 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 1: But on the other hand, there's something about it that 172 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:08,720 Speaker 1: just doesn't appeal that broadly. And every attempt the company 173 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:11,960 Speaker 1: has made over the years under Dick Costolo, under Jack 174 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:16,079 Speaker 1: Dorsey to bring video onto the network, to expand the 175 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:18,680 Speaker 1: lengths of tweets, you know, it seems to have failed. 176 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:21,920 Speaker 1: Maybe fundamentally. It's just not that large of a business. 177 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:24,920 Speaker 1: And what happened over the years, and this was well 178 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:29,679 Speaker 1: before Elon musk Is I think expenses grew much faster 179 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 1: and larger than the company could really support with its 180 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:35,280 Speaker 1: current revenue base. This was an airplane that was losing 181 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 1: altitude even before Ellen took over. Can you put that 182 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:41,160 Speaker 1: in perspective when you compare Twitter's user base to the 183 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:44,199 Speaker 1: size of other really big social media platforms, where does 184 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:48,679 Speaker 1: it rain? I don't know, because they stopped reporting all 185 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:51,440 Speaker 1: these metrics once Ellen took over, but I want to 186 00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:54,079 Speaker 1: say it's a little over two hundred and thirty million 187 00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:58,880 Speaker 1: daily users. Compare that to Facebook has close to three 188 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:02,000 Speaker 1: billion users across all of its services, but you know, 189 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:05,760 Speaker 1: more than two billion on Instagram and WhatsApp and Facebook alone, 190 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 1: And so by that measure, it's what ten issue of 191 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:12,600 Speaker 1: a lot of these other services. And I think that's 192 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 1: always actually surprised people because one of the things that 193 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:21,040 Speaker 1: Twitter's best at is getting tweets out in front of people, 194 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:24,040 Speaker 1: right Like, you see tweets on the news, you see tweets, 195 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:28,080 Speaker 1: people talk about tweets on the radio. Donald Trump was 196 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:31,560 Speaker 1: basically a president by tweet, right like he was dictating 197 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:34,959 Speaker 1: by tweet. You see the Twitter stuff, but maybe you 198 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:37,000 Speaker 1: don't have an account, And so I think that has 199 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 1: created this feeling that Twitter is significantly larger than it 200 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 1: really is from a user standpoint, because it's cultural impact 201 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:47,320 Speaker 1: is so much larger than its user basis. There's this 202 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 1: feeling that Twitter is a very public and scary place 203 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:52,439 Speaker 1: to a lot of people. Not a lot of people 204 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 1: like the idea of saying something publicly to a bunch 205 00:11:56,640 --> 00:12:00,360 Speaker 1: of strangers that they don't know, especially when the reputation is, Oh, 206 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:02,000 Speaker 1: if you say something that people don't like, you're gonna 207 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:04,600 Speaker 1: get harassed, You're gonna get dragged, you're gonna get dunked on. 208 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:08,600 Speaker 1: There's this fear I think of Twitter that doesn't come 209 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:11,199 Speaker 1: with some of these other networks because they're not quite 210 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:13,880 Speaker 1: as public as Twitter is. And I think Twitter has 211 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:16,280 Speaker 1: suffered as a result of that, and there's no you know, 212 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:18,840 Speaker 1: they try to do little things like their version of 213 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 1: stories that didn't work out, to try and make it 214 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:24,920 Speaker 1: lower pressure to share and all that, but ultimately Twitter 215 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:27,440 Speaker 1: is a public square and there's a lot of people 216 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:29,640 Speaker 1: that are afraid to be public. I would just say 217 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:32,560 Speaker 1: there's something in the architecture of Twitter that makes it 218 00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:35,840 Speaker 1: very appealing to a small group of people and totally 219 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:42,440 Speaker 1: untenable to the larger population. And since Must took over 220 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 1: that small group of people have been talking about, well, 221 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:47,520 Speaker 1: if Twitter is gonna die, or if Musk is gonna 222 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:49,960 Speaker 1: turn it into an even more toxic place, We're gonna 223 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:53,040 Speaker 1: go someplace else. But it seems like the reason a 224 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:55,480 Speaker 1: lot of people are on Twitter is because everyone's on Twitter, 225 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:58,800 Speaker 1: and there is no other place that people can go 226 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:02,800 Speaker 1: on mass, especially after spending years and years many people 227 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:05,560 Speaker 1: building these huge followings, they worry that they won't come 228 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:09,440 Speaker 1: with them. Well, there's not really a viable alternative waiting 229 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 1: in the wings. We've seen people promote their Massodon accounts. 230 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:16,240 Speaker 1: Masodon is impossible for a normal person to use. You 231 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:19,840 Speaker 1: have to use like several different plugins. Understand that there 232 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:23,840 Speaker 1: are different Massodon servers that you can join, and there 233 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:27,920 Speaker 1: are some other initiatives like post. But look, network effects 234 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:31,880 Speaker 1: are what keep platforms healthy. If the network is there, 235 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 1: there's no real reason for you to join another platform now. 236 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:39,000 Speaker 1: Something that our sources and social media have been talking 237 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:42,240 Speaker 1: about for the last few years, as these networks get saturated, 238 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:44,880 Speaker 1: as they grow bigger, and as people start to leave them, 239 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:47,079 Speaker 1: is the idea that network effects can also work in 240 00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:50,760 Speaker 1: the opposite direction, that if there is an exodus that 241 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:55,160 Speaker 1: begins from a place, that it can accelerate and that 242 00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 1: a network can lose what makes it good very quickly 243 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:04,000 Speaker 1: as it becomes, you know, a fad. Maybe the behavior 244 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:06,719 Speaker 1: of using a place like Twitter to get caught up 245 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:11,120 Speaker 1: on the daily events in the world turns into something 246 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:14,240 Speaker 1: completely different over the next few years. You Know, what 247 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:17,720 Speaker 1: I've found really interesting is um because I agree with Sarah. 248 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:20,000 Speaker 1: There isn't an obvious something waiting in the wings, and 249 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:22,280 Speaker 1: yet there sort of is, which is Facebook, And not 250 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 1: a single person is talking about migrating to Facebook, right, 251 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:29,280 Speaker 1: But like, why not? You know, everyone has an account. 252 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:31,760 Speaker 1: I'd probably guarantee that we're already there. We know how 253 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 1: to use it. There's a feed, there's news, there's like 254 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:37,440 Speaker 1: all the things that Twitter does on Facebook, and yet 255 00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:39,880 Speaker 1: I haven't met a single person who's like, right, Twitter 256 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 1: is getting too tough, I'm headed back over to Facebook. 257 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:44,320 Speaker 1: It's just funny to me. But isn't that just because 258 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 1: like the moment is passing now, Facebook was where your 259 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:49,120 Speaker 1: grandma goes. Yeah, that's kind of my point though, right, 260 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:52,080 Speaker 1: is like, this feels like an opportunity for Facebook, or 261 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:55,440 Speaker 1: should have been. But the fact that nobody actually wants 262 00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:57,360 Speaker 1: to go back over there, I think is quite telling 263 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 1: because that just sort of signals that, like, even though 264 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:03,080 Speaker 1: Facebook offers almost all of these things that Twitter does 265 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 1: and we're all familiar with it, no one seems to 266 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:08,440 Speaker 1: actually see that as a viable replacement. I just find 267 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 1: that interesting. As someone who covers the social media space, 268 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:12,440 Speaker 1: I would have thought this would have been a bigger 269 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:16,360 Speaker 1: opportunity for them. So is Twitter fixable under Musk? I'll 270 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:18,560 Speaker 1: go first, I'm gonna say yes. I mean it's been 271 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:21,720 Speaker 1: two months, right, Like it's been a pretty disastrous two months, 272 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 1: but it's only been two months, and so I'm not 273 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 1: fully ready to say this thing is, you know, going 274 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:30,000 Speaker 1: to zero or anything like that. Now. One of the 275 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:33,160 Speaker 1: things that I'm personally concerned about is that, you know, 276 00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:35,200 Speaker 1: the biggest reason I use Twitter is for news. Right, 277 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:38,960 Speaker 1: It's where I get all of my information. It's lightning fast. Um, 278 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:42,520 Speaker 1: if there's something happening around me and I'm curious what's 279 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:44,440 Speaker 1: going on, I'm usually going to Twitter before I go 280 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:48,040 Speaker 1: to anywhere else. But Ellen doesn't seem nearly as concerned 281 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 1: about like the legitimacy of that news and the accuracy 282 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:53,520 Speaker 1: of that news. Right. He's trying to actively get rid 283 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:56,080 Speaker 1: of Twitter's policies around fact checking and things like that. 284 00:15:56,520 --> 00:15:58,960 Speaker 1: And so if I can't go there and feel like, Okay, 285 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:01,520 Speaker 1: I'm accurately in in the view of what's happening around me, 286 00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:05,080 Speaker 1: then you know, maybe I have less incentive to tune in. 287 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:07,320 Speaker 1: I imagine I'm not alone in that being like the 288 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:09,760 Speaker 1: main draw I'm sure, there's a lot of people who 289 00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 1: feel the same, and so I do wonder how much 290 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:15,720 Speaker 1: the misinformation stuff is going to play into Twitter's viability 291 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:17,960 Speaker 1: long term. But that's, you know, use case of one. 292 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:21,560 Speaker 1: That's my experience. I'm curious what Sarah brad think. Well. 293 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 1: I have to say that you only need a big 294 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 1: news event to remind yourself how valuable Twitter can be. 295 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:30,600 Speaker 1: And recently when Buffalo Bill safety to mar Hamlin had 296 00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:34,400 Speaker 1: that grievous injury, or Kevin McCarthy and the repeated votes 297 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 1: to be how speaker, you know, I find myself turning 298 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:39,800 Speaker 1: to Twitter to find out what's going on. As much 299 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 1: as I have been kind of repelled and repulsed by 300 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:46,360 Speaker 1: the quality of the dialogue recently on Twitter, it's still 301 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:49,240 Speaker 1: is kind of unreplaceable in terms of real time news. 302 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:52,360 Speaker 1: And I think that probably is the asset he has bought. 303 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:54,120 Speaker 1: And if he has to burn it down and take 304 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:56,800 Speaker 1: it through bankruptcy to build it up again, I agree 305 00:16:56,800 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 1: with you, Kurt. I think that there's still a lot 306 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:11,320 Speaker 1: of potential there will be right back. Bradwell Musk has 307 00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:15,720 Speaker 1: been spending seemingly every waking moment of his days at 308 00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:19,640 Speaker 1: Twitter or tweeting about Twitter or causing news about himself 309 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:24,480 Speaker 1: on Twitter. His other big company, Tesla, has really kind 310 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:27,520 Speaker 1: of been going through the ringer. Is this a real 311 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:30,040 Speaker 1: distraction or is that just the kind of media narrative 312 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 1: that Musk is spending all this time on Twitter and 313 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:36,920 Speaker 1: therefore Tesla suffering. Okay, I think it's a media narrative 314 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:39,720 Speaker 1: and curtain Sarah might disagree with me on this, but 315 00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 1: you know, Tesla last year was a meme stock. It 316 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:49,040 Speaker 1: was a momentum play. It was insanely overvalued. People were 317 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:51,360 Speaker 1: piling in and there was a belief that the company 318 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:54,320 Speaker 1: had a little bit of a monopoly on electric vehicles. 319 00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:58,520 Speaker 1: And not only did the market crater, but of Tesla's 320 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:02,800 Speaker 1: businesses in China and everyone who is you know, heavily 321 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:05,719 Speaker 1: in China is suffering right now. It's been closing at 322 00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:08,800 Speaker 1: Shanghai plant. You know, the COVID zero policies killed it, 323 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:11,360 Speaker 1: and the stock has created in Elon has lost two 324 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 1: billion dollars. I just don't know how different that would 325 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:20,320 Speaker 1: be if the Twitter distraction didn't exist. I think Tesla 326 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:23,640 Speaker 1: was due for a fall either way. Now I think 327 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:28,160 Speaker 1: you're wrong, because I listened to Elon Musk speaking recently 328 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 1: on a Twitter spaces with Tesla investors, and they were 329 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 1: bringing up Twitter over and over because they thought that 330 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:40,840 Speaker 1: that was the problem. One of the investors said, listen, 331 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:45,120 Speaker 1: my grandchildren don't think it's cool anymore that I own 332 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:48,880 Speaker 1: a Tesla. That's a problem. My son doesn't like it 333 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:52,919 Speaker 1: that you're making fun of people who use different pronouns, 334 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:57,400 Speaker 1: like this is taking the shine off of our Tesla vehicles. 335 00:18:57,520 --> 00:18:59,520 Speaker 1: So I do think that that's a big issue. It's 336 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:03,480 Speaker 1: a media a narrative, yes, but it's also Tesla is 337 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:08,919 Speaker 1: about coolness, and it's about Ellen. It's about saving the 338 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:14,120 Speaker 1: world doing something that is innovative and new. There are 339 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:17,640 Speaker 1: other evs that are really exciting and very cool coming 340 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:22,239 Speaker 1: out right now. And the factor of you know, if 341 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:25,400 Speaker 1: I drive a Tesla, that means I'm an interesting, innovative 342 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:30,160 Speaker 1: person with good taste. That's shake here. Maybe he'll win 343 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:34,560 Speaker 1: some customers among conservatives. I'm going to agree with Sarah. 344 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:37,040 Speaker 1: I think this is all about optics, right, Like, would 345 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:41,879 Speaker 1: the literal output from Tesla factory be different if Ellen 346 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:44,080 Speaker 1: was there? Maybe you're right, Brad, I don't know if 347 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:46,840 Speaker 1: that's actually the case, but I do think that optically, 348 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:50,000 Speaker 1: this idea that he is distracted, that he's not paying 349 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:52,840 Speaker 1: attention to Tesla as much as investors want him to. 350 00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 1: I think Sarah brings up a great point, like there's 351 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:59,280 Speaker 1: a whole group of probably left leaning people in the 352 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:02,959 Speaker 1: US who probably thought maybe they were indifferent about Tesla, 353 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:05,080 Speaker 1: maybe even thought Tesla was kind of cool because it 354 00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:08,920 Speaker 1: was environmentally friendly. That suddenly they've seen, you know, Elon's 355 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:12,280 Speaker 1: personality sort of exposed if you will, on Twitter, and 356 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:14,960 Speaker 1: they're saying, why would I ever buy a Tesla? Why 357 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:17,040 Speaker 1: would I support this person? Right? Like, we see that. 358 00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:18,840 Speaker 1: I see that in my Twitter feed all the time. 359 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:22,280 Speaker 1: And so I think that we're very early in this, 360 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 1: but I don't think it's sustainable for him to try 361 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:27,400 Speaker 1: and continue to do Twitter in the way that he's 362 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:30,600 Speaker 1: doing it as well as these other companies, because investors, 363 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 1: anytime something goes wrong, investors have a very built in, 364 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:36,840 Speaker 1: easy to point to excuse for why it's going wrong. 365 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:38,960 Speaker 1: Whether it's fair or not, I don't know, but I 366 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:41,520 Speaker 1: do think that that is like a real problem for him. 367 00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:47,000 Speaker 1: Because of the optics. There is a perception that Musk 368 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:49,520 Speaker 1: has had to kind of plunder Tesla in order to 369 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:52,320 Speaker 1: meet some of the debt obligations for taking on Twitter. 370 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:55,240 Speaker 1: Is that a problem for Tesla? Could they get themselves 371 00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 1: into trouble just because of the money required to keep 372 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:00,919 Speaker 1: Twitter going and where must is having to get it? 373 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:04,400 Speaker 1: Looking back on the year, if I'm Elon Musk, I'm 374 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:07,320 Speaker 1: really glad that I sold Tesla near the peak. Well, 375 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:09,960 Speaker 1: he's been selling all year. He sold close to forty 376 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:12,439 Speaker 1: billion dollars worth of Tesla stock in the last like 377 00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:15,200 Speaker 1: fifteen months or something like that. You know, the more 378 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:18,920 Speaker 1: he sort of divests his steak in Tesla, the more 379 00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:22,480 Speaker 1: you feel like he has less interest or less at 380 00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:25,600 Speaker 1: stake personally for its success in the future. Now, I 381 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:28,240 Speaker 1: don't necessarily think that, you know, just because he's cashing 382 00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:30,080 Speaker 1: out to pay for Twitter means that he doesn't care 383 00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:33,480 Speaker 1: about Tesla anymore. But again, if you're a Testlas shareholder, 384 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:36,360 Speaker 1: that has to be something that you're thinking about when 385 00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:39,640 Speaker 1: you see him constantly selling, you know, billions of dollars 386 00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:42,600 Speaker 1: of Tesla stock. He's also constantly promising We'm not going 387 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:45,360 Speaker 1: to sell anymore, and then he doesn't. That's a good point, 388 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:47,960 Speaker 1: because he does that a lot. He says something and 389 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:51,200 Speaker 1: does another so trying to predict what Elon Musk is 390 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:52,800 Speaker 1: going to do as a fool's game. So I'm going 391 00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:55,240 Speaker 1: to ask each of you to do that. Um, when 392 00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 1: you look ahead, what do you actually see as the 393 00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:01,800 Speaker 1: future of Twitter? What Twitter looked like a year from 394 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:07,120 Speaker 1: now or three years from now. Again, we're totally speculating here, right, 395 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:11,280 Speaker 1: but I don't think the bankruptcy thing is really that 396 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:15,080 Speaker 1: far out of the question. I mean, he's basically warned 397 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:18,800 Speaker 1: like Twitter could be bankrupt, and he said this multiple times, 398 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:22,560 Speaker 1: not only two employees, but publicly as well. And I 399 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:24,840 Speaker 1: think that there's two reasons that I don't think this 400 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:27,720 Speaker 1: is that crazy. The first is that the vast, vast 401 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:30,640 Speaker 1: majority of the revenue Twitter makes is from advertising right 402 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:34,399 Speaker 1: close to and everything we've seen and heard over the 403 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:36,159 Speaker 1: last couple of months since he took over, is it 404 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:39,879 Speaker 1: Advertisers are uncomfortable spending money on Twitter. They don't know 405 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:42,680 Speaker 1: what they're gonna get. It's not considered a safe environment. 406 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:45,359 Speaker 1: And I don't think Ellen has really done anything with 407 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:48,080 Speaker 1: his own behavior or with Twitter's rules or policies to 408 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:50,320 Speaker 1: make them feel better, right, So there's no reason for 409 00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:53,280 Speaker 1: me to think that advertisers are suddenly going to come back. Okay, 410 00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:57,280 Speaker 1: so there's revenue that's you know, we'll say, um cut 411 00:22:57,280 --> 00:22:59,560 Speaker 1: in half. I don't think it's even that dramatic of 412 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:02,879 Speaker 1: an elsis. Then you add in what Sarah mentioned earlier 413 00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:05,080 Speaker 1: about the debt. They're going to have these big, big 414 00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:08,480 Speaker 1: debt payments do every quarter At some cases, they're gonna 415 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:11,040 Speaker 1: have multiple debt payments, do you know, in the same quarter, 416 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:14,480 Speaker 1: because they have different interest payments that are coming at 417 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:17,320 Speaker 1: three months and six month intervals. And so you know, 418 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:19,439 Speaker 1: if you say, okay, revenue is cut in half, and 419 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:22,080 Speaker 1: suddenly you're now spending hundreds of millions of dollars a 420 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:24,760 Speaker 1: quarter just to service this debt that you took out, 421 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:28,960 Speaker 1: it could be strategic. I'm not a bankruptcy expert. I'm 422 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:31,400 Speaker 1: certainly you know, I'm a little over my skis here, 423 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:34,919 Speaker 1: but I could see it being a strategic play for 424 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:37,880 Speaker 1: Elon Musk to take Twitter bankrupt, to try and get 425 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:39,720 Speaker 1: them out from a lot of this debt, and to 426 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:42,320 Speaker 1: basically say we're going to start this thing over a 427 00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:47,199 Speaker 1: little bit. Well, I'll add that the idea that he 428 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:51,000 Speaker 1: would bring in another CEO is kind of fanciful, Like 429 00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:53,760 Speaker 1: even if he doesn't. In name, he's still the owner, 430 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 1: he's still the chief twit. I doubt he would empower 431 00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:00,320 Speaker 1: somebody else to make decisions he doesn't agree with. I 432 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:02,480 Speaker 1: think he's going to contain it, to exert an iron 433 00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:05,240 Speaker 1: grip on this thing, as Kurt says, as he takes 434 00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:07,600 Speaker 1: it through bankruptcy, and then maybe as he picks up 435 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:10,320 Speaker 1: the pieces, who knows, maybe stages and I p O 436 00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:13,359 Speaker 1: takes the financial loss down the line. But it's hard 437 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:15,199 Speaker 1: to see at this point how he comes out of 438 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:18,120 Speaker 1: this with anything resembling a win. And I don't think 439 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:23,200 Speaker 1: that Twitter will continue, and this is obviously speculation, but 440 00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:26,639 Speaker 1: I don't see it continue to have its same place 441 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:31,840 Speaker 1: in the cultural conversation that it had leading up to this. 442 00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:37,120 Speaker 1: I think that as Musk takes over the conversation and 443 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:40,639 Speaker 1: a lot of the people who are prominent on Twitter 444 00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:45,199 Speaker 1: decide to give up on posting there. Um. I think 445 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:50,439 Speaker 1: people will certainly follow it for the presidential elections and 446 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:53,560 Speaker 1: other big events that happen, and they'll go there when 447 00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:58,760 Speaker 1: there's a natural disaster and when something major occurs. One 448 00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:01,320 Speaker 1: thing that we could see how upen as we could 449 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:06,240 Speaker 1: see Twitter pivot to be more of a entertainment platform 450 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:10,159 Speaker 1: than a real time information platform. We could see it 451 00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:15,680 Speaker 1: become more like a TikTok or an Instagram, where it's 452 00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:19,439 Speaker 1: algorithmically showing you content that it thinks are going to 453 00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:22,960 Speaker 1: be interested in, and there's less pressure to be part 454 00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:27,040 Speaker 1: of a live conversation. I would add, maybe the most 455 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:30,280 Speaker 1: the greatest example of what Sarah just said, which is 456 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:33,760 Speaker 1: Twitter sort of losing that cultural hole that it had, 457 00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:37,600 Speaker 1: is the fact that President Donald Trump has been you know, 458 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:41,199 Speaker 1: able to come tweet again for almost six weeks, and 459 00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:44,520 Speaker 1: he has not, right, Like, this is someone who I mean, 460 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:47,639 Speaker 1: he couldn't go multiple hours without tweeting when he was president. 461 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,800 Speaker 1: He's now waited six weeks to say anything, and he 462 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,960 Speaker 1: has eighty eight million Twitter followers, right, and so he 463 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:56,879 Speaker 1: for whatever reason, he's running for president again, right Like, 464 00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:59,160 Speaker 1: It's not as if he's just like I've retired, I'm 465 00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:01,080 Speaker 1: kicking it a back and I'm golf and I have note. 466 00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:02,960 Speaker 1: It's like, no, he has need. He has need to 467 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,919 Speaker 1: get his message out to me. That is sort of 468 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:09,960 Speaker 1: a symbol of you know where Twitter's places right now 469 00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:13,919 Speaker 1: in our broader culture and economy, because you know, it's 470 00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:16,440 Speaker 1: hard to imagine he would have sat on the sidelines 471 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:19,560 Speaker 1: a few years ago had he been brought back. Kurt Wagner, 472 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:22,600 Speaker 1: Sarah Fryer, Brad Stone, thanks for coming on the show. 473 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:26,320 Speaker 1: Thank you, Wes, Thank you for having us. Yeah, thank you. 474 00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:29,359 Speaker 1: You can read more of Brad, Sarah's, and Kurt's reporting 475 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:34,040 Speaker 1: on elon Musk at Bloomberg dot com. Thanks for listening 476 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:36,240 Speaker 1: to us here at The Big Take, the daily podcast 477 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:39,000 Speaker 1: from Bloomberg and I Heart Radio. For more shows from 478 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:42,520 Speaker 1: my Heart Radio, visit the i Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 479 00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:46,399 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen. Read today's story and subscribe to 480 00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:49,760 Speaker 1: our daily newsletter at Bloomberg dot com, slash Big Take, 481 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:52,480 Speaker 1: and we'd love to hear from you. Email us with 482 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:55,800 Speaker 1: questions or comments to Dig Take at Bloomberg dot net. 483 00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:59,920 Speaker 1: The supervising producer of The Big Take is Vicky Bergelina. 484 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:06,959 Speaker 1: Our senior producer is Katherine Fink. Our producer is Rebecca An. 485 00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:14,119 Speaker 1: Associate producer is Sam Debauer is our engineer. Original music 486 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:18,120 Speaker 1: by Leo Sidrin. I'm west Kosova. We'll be back tomorrow 487 00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:19,240 Speaker 1: with another Big Take.