Speaker 1: Hey, they're folks.
Speaker 2: It is Friday, June twenty seventh, and the defense closing
Speaker 2: argument is underway in the Ditty trial, and lead attorney
Speaker 2: Mark Agnaphillo is on fire. Welcome everybody to this Ditty
Speaker 2: update edition of Amy and t J. I get his
Speaker 2: name right today, Yes, yes.
Speaker 3: Well we at least knew what it was instead of
Speaker 3: some Italian last name that begins with an A.
Speaker 2: Okay, everybody's going to know how to say his name
Speaker 2: after today. This dude is on fire. He is right
Speaker 2: now Robes performing in stark contrasts to what it seemed
Speaker 2: the prosecution did in their five hour closing yesterday.
Speaker 3: He is actually making fun in a lot of ways
Speaker 3: of the prosecution's seven week long presentation. And you and
Speaker 3: I both said this, if I were charged with a crime,
Speaker 3: this is the man who I would want defending me,
Speaker 3: because he's found a way to use common sense and
Speaker 3: humor to appeal to the jurors. He comes off as
Speaker 3: making a lot of logical sense and connecting the dots
Speaker 3: that completely point away from the prosecution's argument.
Speaker 2: No charts, no graphics, no nothing. He made that point
Speaker 2: when he started. He said, I'm not gonna do that
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna put some more screens something for you
Speaker 2: to read, because you know what they say, screens are
Speaker 2: bad for yas. Anyway, Like he's speaking in that kind
Speaker 2: of colloquial way that everybody can understand, and I say speak,
Speaker 2: we're sitting here acting as if we can hear his audio.
Speaker 2: You and I have been reading a live book.
Speaker 3: I said, I've never actually been sitting in a room
Speaker 3: and been so entertained. And that's exactly how I described it.
Speaker 3: It says, if I'm turning a page and reading a
Speaker 3: fascinating book that's happening in real time. That's the best
Speaker 3: way I can describe what it's been like all morning
Speaker 3: long for us as we have been following along. Note
Speaker 3: by note, we've got multiple news outlets, court reporters, live
Speaker 3: updates popping up, and we'll say, did you just see
Speaker 3: this one? Did you just hear that one? Because Mark
Speaker 3: Agniphilo is just coming off with one quip after the next,
Speaker 3: and they're memorable and they are making a serious impression.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he warned it. I say he warned, but
Speaker 2: he gave everybody a heads up. He said, I'm not
Speaker 2: gonna use screens like we mentioned, but he said, I'm
Speaker 2: going to be pacing a lot, And sure enough, they said,
Speaker 2: he is essentially racing, moving back and forth right in
Speaker 2: front of the jury box. His voice is going high,
Speaker 2: so high pitch is cracking at times, like he is
Speaker 2: just putting on. They are not bored today, No, in
Speaker 2: the court.
Speaker 3: Room, and they said, he's gesticulating. He's he's theatrical, I mean,
Speaker 3: and so you can't take your eyes off of him.
Speaker 3: And the one thing that's missing from the reporting that
Speaker 3: you and I have noted, and we talked about this
Speaker 3: a little bit yesterday and we looked up if there
Speaker 3: was some law or some rule against court reporters describing
Speaker 3: jurors reactions. And our reaction has been fairly animated here
Speaker 3: hearing what Mark is saying, or at least reading what
Speaker 3: Mark is saying. And I was desperate to know what
Speaker 3: the juror's faces look like as he is cracking jokes,
Speaker 3: because honestly, I know this is not a laughing matter.
Speaker 3: We're talking about serious, heinous, disgusting allegations. And I have
Speaker 3: found myself and I've watched you too, we are laughing.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, because he's cracking jokes.
Speaker 2: We got we're going to give you more of his
Speaker 2: quotes in a second, but rose before he even got
Speaker 2: to get started. This morning, here we go once again
Speaker 2: there was another juror issue. Nothing too terrible, but it
Speaker 2: seems once again the juror throwing off the schedule.
Speaker 3: There was a transit issue.
Speaker 1: That's how all they said.
Speaker 3: It was a transit issue. I mean, look, we live
Speaker 3: in New York City. We understand it's tough. It's a
Speaker 3: commuting every day, so you always have to give yourself, literally,
Speaker 3: no matter where you're going, at least an extra thirty minutes,
Speaker 3: and sometimes you'll be early, and sometimes you'll even still
Speaker 3: be a little late. I mean, you cannot know what
Speaker 3: you're commute. It's going to be day in and day out.
Speaker 2: Okay, well, a transit issue, this is kind of a
Speaker 2: big one. Thirty minutes. Court was delayed a full thirty
Speaker 2: minutes today. Of all days I ropes, I have to
Speaker 2: say it was there are more highly antictate. We've had
Speaker 2: highly anticipated witnesses that delivered on testimony we were expecting,
Speaker 2: but this maybe is the most highly anticipated day of
Speaker 2: this trial, and sure enough we were left waiting even longer.
Speaker 2: It was just weird that it happened on this day,
Speaker 2: of all days.
Speaker 3: I would say, in the entire time, we have been
Speaker 3: watching this and many of the I say watching, I
Speaker 3: always say this because it feels like we've been watching it,
Speaker 3: monitoring what's going on in the courtroom. This has been
Speaker 3: and I hate to use the word entertaining, but it
Speaker 3: has been the most entertaining day that I can recall
Speaker 3: of this entire trial.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and well you'll understand why here in just a second.
Speaker 2: But rope, we talked about Agnefillo. Yes, there were a
Speaker 2: lot of theatrics, but he was much more than style.
Speaker 2: He brought the substance, and he made clear at the
Speaker 2: top it seemed the direction he was going to go. Said,
Speaker 2: this is a trial of a lifestyle.
Speaker 3: Correct, This is not a criminal enterprise. This is not
Speaker 3: some mob boss enterprise. He said, this is someone's lifestyle.
Speaker 3: And he said, okay, so he liked threesomes. Okay, so
Speaker 3: he likes some kinky stuff. Basically is what he was saying.
Speaker 3: But that's not a crime. That's certainly not racketeering, and
Speaker 3: it's not all of the other He was making light
Speaker 3: and making fun of the charges that the government brought
Speaker 3: against his client, saying get real. People come on basically
Speaker 3: kind of saying, none of you actually are buying this right.
Speaker 3: Because he liked some kinky sex, because he likes threesomes.
Speaker 3: This is he's on trial for his lifestyle, not for
Speaker 3: crimes that he committed.
Speaker 2: It was as close as to a legal really, dude
Speaker 2: as you can get.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he said, you want to call it swingers, you
Speaker 3: want to call it threesomes. That's what it is. That's
Speaker 3: what the evidence shows. That was his quote.
Speaker 2: But we go through and again we're talking about, Yes,
Speaker 2: I mean, what did he did behind closed doors? Fine,
Speaker 2: but he's being charged for doing that stuff behind closed
Speaker 2: doors the same way they prosecuted mobsters. And he made
Speaker 2: that point about the racketeering. He called this, he said,
Speaker 2: one of the most serious, complicated, comprehensive statutes on the books.
Speaker 2: They applied it to personal use drugs and threesomes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's just he kind of broke it one sentence.
Speaker 1: He said, this is what we're doing here.
Speaker 3: We talked about this yesterday in both of our episodes.
Speaker 3: With the prosecution's presentation they're closing arguments, it, in one word,
Speaker 3: was complicated. We felt overwhelmed, and yes, that's why they
Speaker 3: had graphs and charts and displays because it is so
Speaker 3: confusing how they're trying to take specific instances and then
Speaker 3: apply them to this very confusing but very serious charge
Speaker 3: that in one case, and the racketeering charges could put
Speaker 3: Diddy away for life. And so it was and dark
Speaker 3: and serious and complicated. Might like my brain hurt trying
Speaker 3: to see how they were doing. Right.
Speaker 2: It's a legal and technical and I guess you're supposed
Speaker 2: to take this all by the book, right, but we're
Speaker 2: human beings and a lot of this stuff goes beyond
Speaker 2: just what's.
Speaker 1: In a statute.
Speaker 2: And he could this dude makes common sense if you're
Speaker 2: just talking to him and listening to both of them.
Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, of course, yeah, of course this
Speaker 2: doesn't make any sense while we're here for this. He
Speaker 2: likes him sex and now you're trying racketeering. What that's
Speaker 2: just kind of common sense.
Speaker 3: So as a juror, you're sitting there and you kind
Speaker 3: of said, he reminded you a little bit just in
Speaker 3: terms of what we're reading and how he's been able
Speaker 3: to simplify the issues and make it feel relatable in
Speaker 3: a weird way. Kind of you said, he felt very
Speaker 3: Johnny cochranesque to you.
Speaker 1: Johnny was brilliant.
Speaker 2: We all know that, but he was a performer in
Speaker 2: the We saw him perform for months on television and
Speaker 2: to this day, anybody right now, I Sayannie Conchran, Hey,
Speaker 2: give me a quote of Johnny Conchrane. You can tell
Speaker 2: me one.
Speaker 1: If it doesn't fit, you must quit.
Speaker 2: This is what this guy is doing. It feels like
Speaker 2: in court today. He is speaking to you in colloquial,
Speaker 2: common sensical terms you can relate to and go, ah,
Speaker 2: that makes sense.
Speaker 3: And he also brought in the DEI thing. I thought
Speaker 3: he had a couple current event moments where he related
Speaker 3: what was going on, and he talked about di I.
Speaker 3: He said, Sean Diddy Combs has been deiing since the
Speaker 3: nineteen nineties. You know, he has employed all of these folks.
Speaker 3: He and he said this, Shawn Combs has become something
Speaker 3: that is very, very hard to be. He's a self made,
Speaker 3: successful black entrepreneur. And that had to hit home for
Speaker 3: some of the jurors.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he wait, he's this rare thing and that why
Speaker 2: does he end up here for that?
Speaker 3: Because he likes threesomes and because he likes to swing,
Speaker 3: so why.
Speaker 2: Is this rarity in the black community being brought to
Speaker 2: this type of scrutiny that seems kind of rare too.
Speaker 2: Of these things, he found a way in just making
Speaker 2: a factual statement to put something in your mind to
Speaker 2: think about.
Speaker 3: Yeah. He also made a reference to the Jaws fiftieth
Speaker 3: anniversary and like, you know the famous line from Jaws,
Speaker 3: We're going to need another boat another sorry, we're gonna
Speaker 3: need a bigger boat. He said something, We're gonna need
Speaker 3: more crimes tape scene. It's a crime scene tape because
Speaker 3: of what they're trying to piece together and pull together
Speaker 3: to create this seemingly elaborate criminal enterprise. You know, He's like,
Speaker 3: they're just trying to make more out of something that
Speaker 3: actually isn't a crime.
Speaker 2: We should make the point. We were talking about this
Speaker 2: yesterday after hearing the prosecution's case. We were like, wow, wow,
Speaker 2: we were you know what that sounds right?
Speaker 1: Yep? To count two cases, Yep, that sounds right.
Speaker 3: I mean, how are they going to get out of that?
Speaker 3: Because like what they're saying. He actually probably did so like, wait,
Speaker 3: how are they going to get out of this?
Speaker 2: We predicted that sure enough, we're going to hear defense
Speaker 2: and sure enough, listening to him today, like wow that.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, oh wow on.
Speaker 2: Everything he said. Now we're talking about how entertaining he
Speaker 2: was Robes, he flat out made fund yes of the
Speaker 2: investigators in some of these searches, and how they are
Speaker 2: getting bad people and things off the streets.
Speaker 3: Oh my goodness. Yes, he went off about making America
Speaker 3: safe from astroglide is what he basically said. He's like,
Speaker 3: thank goodness we had those raids. Thank goodness that we
Speaker 3: were able to have these federal prosecutors swoop in to
Speaker 3: Ditty's house to find boxes of astroglide taken off the streets.
Speaker 3: He said, who I feel better already artificial lubricant, Not
Speaker 3: for me. The streets of America are safe from the astroglide.
Speaker 3: It's hard not to chuckle when he puts.
Speaker 2: It like that. You can, you can, you can hear
Speaker 2: sarcasm in words. That's remarkable. He actually gave them an
Speaker 2: Ada boy said, way to go, Fellas. That's a quote.
Speaker 2: He said, way to go Fellas. You guys just do you.
Speaker 2: They took astroglide and baby oil and that is the
Speaker 2: evidence in this case.
Speaker 3: Man.
Speaker 1: It's effective.
Speaker 3: It is so effective.
Speaker 1: Because we're talking about some of the most serious charges.
Speaker 2: But we go through what they collected from this serious criminal.
Speaker 1: Not guns right there, some of the house, but he's not.
Speaker 3: Accused of There is no gun related violence other than
Speaker 3: I believe with the Capricorn Clarkin since she said he
Speaker 3: brought a gun with her, But there's no evidence of
Speaker 3: him brandishing a gun or threatening someone with the gun.
Speaker 3: So the guns don't really.
Speaker 1: Terms of hit.
Speaker 2: You got the FBI raiding a home in terms of
Speaker 2: the threat that they just got off the street from
Speaker 2: the search were boxes and boxes of astroglide, not drugs
Speaker 2: to be distributed astroglide. And so he's the way I'm
Speaker 2: saying it here is the way you can imagine them
Speaker 2: hearing it, like oh.
Speaker 3: Really, yeah, it was like a I think the worst
Speaker 3: thing in terms of the drugs, was it a Gucci
Speaker 3: fanny pack or a Gucci bag that had some drugs
Speaker 3: in it? Yeah, even that was just comical because of
Speaker 3: how what it was housed in, not even the fact
Speaker 3: that there were so if there were just unbelievable amounts
Speaker 3: of drugs, they would have pointed out there was this
Speaker 3: amount of this, there was that amount of this, they
Speaker 3: couldn't even do that, you know.
Speaker 2: The other he saved a lot of his mocking for Capricorn. Clark,
Speaker 2: who was an assistant, said she was okay. Two different
Speaker 2: occasions she said she was kidnapped. One of them robes
Speaker 2: was when he said she said did he came to
Speaker 2: her house, said he had a gun, said you're coming
Speaker 2: with me right now. And this is when they were
Speaker 2: going to see kid Cutty. The other time, and this
Speaker 2: is the one that attorney was mocking a lot when
Speaker 2: she said she had to be subjected to a light
Speaker 2: detector test for almost a week on a floor of
Speaker 2: an abandoned building by a bodyguard or something, a goon
Speaker 2: from Diddy and the attorney went.
Speaker 1: To town on that one.
Speaker 3: He certainly did. He said she was kidnapped and then
Speaker 3: returned back to her home each night, and then returned
Speaker 3: back with the kidnapper each day. And he kind of
Speaker 3: made it, well, he didn't kind it. He made a
Speaker 3: reference to the jurors. He said, kind of like you
Speaker 3: all being forced to come back to court each day
Speaker 3: and sit here and listen to this. Do any of
Speaker 3: you feel kidnapped?
Speaker 1: That's effective?
Speaker 3: Once again, what do you do with that? He also
Speaker 3: made a joke about the time that Capricorn Clark you
Speaker 3: just mentioned it and said she felt like she had
Speaker 3: to go with Diddy to go confront kid Cuddy, that
Speaker 3: she believed he had a gun. He said, she was
Speaker 3: probably so excited that he came to her house she
Speaker 3: would have gone to the moon with him.
Speaker 2: He didn't need to show a gun, it's his point,
Speaker 2: like he didn't have he didn't need to threaten her.
Speaker 3: With anything, and there's no proof that he did have one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So it's those ways that we listened to all
Speaker 2: that testimony and it sounded like a harrowing.
Speaker 1: Scary night.
Speaker 2: And I'm sure a lot of what they talked about
Speaker 2: she testified to was true, but he simplified it in
Speaker 2: such a way that makes you simply have to question
Speaker 2: what you heard.
Speaker 1: And they this was a.
Speaker 2: Good point on the Capricorn testimony. He told them during
Speaker 2: his closing today, like the judge is going to instruct
Speaker 2: you that if you know that a witness lied to
Speaker 2: you once, that means you have the right to disregard
Speaker 2: everything that came out of their mouth and testimony.
Speaker 3: Wow. Wow, And so we knew obviously he was going
Speaker 3: to Mark was going to have to address this domestic
Speaker 3: violence issue, and he handled it so well, and it's
Speaker 3: hard to that's hard to even have that come out
Speaker 3: of my mouth. He handled the domestic violence issues so
Speaker 3: well in the way that he said it. He said,
Speaker 3: we own it. Did he did it? And if he
Speaker 3: had been charged with it, you wouldn't be here because
Speaker 3: he would have pled guilty. That also totally ring truth
Speaker 3: for me and made you actually, you're going along with
Speaker 3: him on his narrative because he says things where they
Speaker 3: have to admit harsh truth. And yet then when they say,
Speaker 3: but this didn't happen, Okay, that happened, and we'll admit
Speaker 3: it freely. But just because he yes admits that he
Speaker 3: beat Cassie, doesn't mean that any of these other charges
Speaker 3: are true because he's not charged with that. And he
Speaker 3: wanted that to be there, and he pointed out, we
Speaker 3: are here because of money, and when he started laying
Speaker 3: out why the jury's here, why his client is facing charges,
Speaker 3: when he put it very plainly, did he is here
Speaker 3: because of money? That was powerful.
Speaker 2: All right, well, folks, stay with us here when we
Speaker 2: come back, we're gonna get more into that money argument
Speaker 2: he was making and why the attorney called Cassie Ventura Fine.
Speaker 1: Gangsta in court today.
Speaker 2: All right, folks, we're going to continue now discussion of
Speaker 2: what has been the first half I guess of closing
Speaker 2: arguments delivered by the lead attorney for the defense team,
Speaker 2: Mark ag Agniphillo Agniphilo in one of these days. I'm
Speaker 2: gonna get it right, mister Agnifilo. My apologies, but wrote
Speaker 2: before we took a short break there we were talking
Speaker 2: about and he was talking about Cassie Ventura Fine plenty
Speaker 2: today and you know, part of she was an eight
Speaker 2: and a half months pregnant woman. You're hearing terrible stories
Speaker 2: about what she went through. We remember all the video.
Speaker 2: But in describing her today, he made her sound like
Speaker 2: a much different person.
Speaker 3: He certainly did he And again he did not deny
Speaker 3: that she was beaten. He did not deny that his
Speaker 3: client beat her. But he made this very direct point
Speaker 3: that he said, Cassie right now is sitting somewhere in
Speaker 3: the world with thirty million dollars. She filed that lawsuit,
Speaker 3: which of course call the attention of the feds. Did
Speaker 3: he paid her twenty million dollars the following day, And
Speaker 3: I did not know this the Hotel Intercontinental where that
Speaker 3: beating that we all saw on that surveillance video took place.
Speaker 3: They paid her ten million dollars and so she was
Speaker 3: She did not go to the police. She did not
Speaker 3: ask that the police charge him with a crime. She
Speaker 3: asked for money, and that is why did he is
Speaker 3: sitting in a defendant chair today.
Speaker 2: No one is arguing that she earned was old, maybe
Speaker 2: even old more than the twenty million that he gave her.
Speaker 2: The point there in front of a jury in a
Speaker 2: criminal case, though, is that she didn't even want to
Speaker 2: bring charges.
Speaker 1: It's that this is maybe.
Speaker 2: Something else to this that is not about criminal enterprise, right,
Speaker 2: And that is the effective way he made the case.
Speaker 2: He didn't just call her a bad person, but he
Speaker 2: did make some suggestions during his closing that she was
Speaker 2: being manipulative and play two guys.
Speaker 3: He said she was playing both Kid Cuttie and Sean
Speaker 3: Ditty Combs, that she was not being truthful to either
Speaker 3: one of them. And when he started going down that narrative,
Speaker 3: he said she even had a burner phone to basically
Speaker 3: keep two guys on the side without the other one
Speaker 3: knowing about the other. And that's when he said Cassie's
Speaker 3: keeping a gangster with the ooh, with the burner phone.
Speaker 3: I mean he really went to town with her on
Speaker 3: that one. I thought that was very interesting. And again
Speaker 3: it is so relatable because you start looking at Cassie
Speaker 3: differently when he puts it that way. She wasn't. Look
Speaker 3: no one's arguing that she was a victim of domestic
Speaker 3: violence and domestic abuse, and certainly, listening or at least
Speaker 3: reading her testimony, it is gutting. It is horrific to
Speaker 3: hear for any human what she underwent. But then he
Speaker 3: made the point she eventually left Ditty because she wanted to.
Speaker 3: That's not coercion, that's not being under someone's control under
Speaker 3: a threat of us. She left freely when she wanted to.
Speaker 2: The suggestion being she could have done that at any point.
Speaker 1: That's the legal arguments.
Speaker 2: Look, they have to consider laws that they're going to
Speaker 2: get all that stuff to go through. But just sitting
Speaker 2: there as a human being on the jury that he's
Speaker 2: appealing to common sense and emotion. He's appealing to them
Speaker 2: in a different way outside of a legal book. And
Speaker 2: it seems right now, at least on paper, we're not
Speaker 2: in the room. But it sounds like he is putting
Speaker 2: on a show.
Speaker 3: Oh my goodness. Yeah. And speaking of money, he didn't
Speaker 3: just point out Cassie. He pointed out Jane, who of
Speaker 3: course was Ditty's other girlfriend who testified under that pseudonym,
Speaker 3: who was such a big part of the prosecution's case.
Speaker 3: He said, on Jane, I hope she's having a nice day,
Speaker 3: but you know where she's doing it in a house
Speaker 3: he's paying for.
Speaker 2: That was a part of a whole section where he
Speaker 2: was talking about he has taken care of he is
Speaker 2: what he does, He takes care of people, and that
Speaker 2: was one of the things he pointed out, but he
Speaker 2: pointed it out in a sarcastic way.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but again one that reads true for all the jurors.
Speaker 3: In fact, when you talked about him caring for people.
Speaker 3: He started his closing arguments pointing out all of Ditty's
Speaker 3: family who have been in the courtroom for most of
Speaker 3: the trial, including his children. He said, these folks are
Speaker 3: here because they love them and because he takes care
Speaker 3: of his own. And he even talked about all the
Speaker 3: folks who were his employees. He said, Okay, they didn't
Speaker 3: maybe always like him, but they loved him. And they've
Speaker 3: even testified to that fact. Even if they saw the
Speaker 3: worst of him at times, they all still wanted to
Speaker 3: be there. They all still wanted to be employed by him.
Speaker 2: Well was it? He confessed though, that working for Ditty is.
Speaker 3: Like drinking out of a fire huse. Yeah so yeah, so,
Speaker 3: Like there's honest acknowledgments and admissions. He has a strong
Speaker 3: personality that isn't for everyone, and certainly violent at times,
Speaker 3: but he's not this mob boss evildoer that the prosecution
Speaker 3: is trying to paint, according to the defense.
Speaker 2: The last thing here I want to point out that
Speaker 2: he said which was very powerful and quietly effective, and
Speaker 2: he used Cassie even to refine as his witness with
Speaker 2: her own words. And Rosey went back to when the
Speaker 2: video first came out on CNN, we all saw him
Speaker 2: beat her in the hallway. She had an outpouring of
Speaker 2: people reaching out to her with sympathy and support and
Speaker 2: things like that, and she went online and she made
Speaker 2: an Instagram boast I believe it was in which she
Speaker 2: said domestic violence is the issue.
Speaker 3: And that is when Mark said, believe her, believe Cassie,
Speaker 3: domestic violence is the issue, and that has been I
Speaker 3: would say the foundation of the defense's argument that Diddy
Speaker 3: isn't responsible and certainly isn't and can't be proved, that
Speaker 3: all of these other he claims made up charges are
Speaker 3: trumped up charges against him, have nothing to do with
Speaker 3: the actual issue, which is domestic violence and that they've
Speaker 3: admitted it and they want that to be what the
Speaker 3: jurors see. Yes, and everything that they presented in terms
Speaker 3: of the videos that has all pointed to that it's undeniable.
Speaker 3: But it's nothing more than that is what the defense
Speaker 3: is saying. And that was yeah, he said believe Cassie,
Speaker 3: believe her at her own words.
Speaker 1: He was like, yeah, don't take our word for it.
Speaker 1: Listen to her.
Speaker 3: Man.
Speaker 2: That is fascinating. So he has been look and there
Speaker 2: is a difference. It's hard for us to read the
Speaker 2: prosecution for five hours talking about legal statutes and if
Speaker 2: it's matches this time over here with this person over
Speaker 2: here is a part of the enterprise but doesn't know.
Speaker 2: But then they have so that that's tougher to read.
Speaker 2: We have to admit this has been entertaining as hell
Speaker 2: just to read, just to read. So have two totally
Speaker 2: different approaches and styles. You can see.
Speaker 3: You gotta wonder as a juror, you know, if you're
Speaker 3: presented with all of these overwhelming facts and flow charts
Speaker 3: and then you get this larger than life theatrical attorney
Speaker 3: speaking to you in common sense terms. Which one are
Speaker 3: you gonna feel? Which one are you gonna remember? Which
Speaker 3: one are you gonna take with you into the deliberation room.
Speaker 2: You know, you make a good point, and you reminded
Speaker 2: me of something I want to make sure I read
Speaker 2: to our audience. Here here it is, and I don't know,
Speaker 2: damn it. I want to give her credit. I think
Speaker 2: it's from the Washington Post, the reporter. But to your
Speaker 2: point about the attorney agna Fillo, and I'm just gonna
Speaker 2: quote everything she says about what she saw in the
Speaker 2: room in contrast and start contrast to the prosecutions, very
Speaker 2: structured and neutral. Closing argument, Defense Attorney Mark Agniphillo has
Speaker 2: been animated and theatrical, pacing in front of the jury box,
Speaker 2: his voice raised and almost cracking at certain points as
Speaker 2: he bellowed and mocked the government. In his final remarks,
Speaker 2: a free, willing Agniphillo, who has referred periodically to his notepad,
Speaker 2: has gone on long rifts. There are no visual aids
Speaker 2: so far, something the lawyer highlighted to jurors, perhaps in
Speaker 2: an attempt to appear more authentic. It's risky jurors could
Speaker 2: just as easily read this performance as a erratic Wow.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, and we're not in the room, so
Speaker 3: we don't know how he's coming off. It's reading very,
Speaker 3: very relatable, but maybe he's coming off as inauthentic. Maybe
Speaker 3: he's coming off as too much It's hard to know, Yeah, performative,
Speaker 3: it's hard to know what these jurors are thinking. Are
Speaker 3: they looking at him skeptically? Are they looking at him
Speaker 3: as if maybe it's even like some last like almost
Speaker 3: where he's being overly dramatic because he's afraid of what
Speaker 3: the truth is. You know, he's trying to mask or
Speaker 3: at least cover up or confuse them from the facts.
Speaker 3: And they might be skeptical because you know, most people
Speaker 3: aren't huge fans of attorneys in general. They're not necessarily
Speaker 3: considered the most trustworthy of folks. So who knows where
Speaker 3: these jurors, what lends they're looking through as they're watching
Speaker 3: Mark and maybe the more just measured specific charts and
Speaker 3: float charts and that maybe that appeals to them more.
Speaker 3: It's hard to say.
Speaker 2: But the other side of that about him, is it
Speaker 2: possible they're eating it up.
Speaker 3: It is possible, and that's why watching courtrooms is fascinating
Speaker 3: because in each juror could respond to each attorney very differently.
Speaker 3: It's hard to know collectively what they're thinking, and we
Speaker 3: won't know until they get into that deliberation room. But
Speaker 3: certainly we will continue to monitor the wild events in
Speaker 3: that Lower Manhattan courtroom throughout the day. Today we will
Speaker 3: have a part two, a bonus episode dropping when the
Speaker 3: defense arrests its case. We're expecting a rebuttal from the prosecution,
Speaker 3: and then the judge is expected to charge the jury,
Speaker 3: give them their instructions for deliberation. So a lot more
Speaker 3: to come in the Diddy trial, So stay with us.
Speaker 3: We will be back this afternoon.