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Speaker 1: Quest Love Suprema contain languages some of our listeners may

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Speaker 1: find offensive. Listener discretion is advised. Supremo sub Frema roll

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Speaker 1: call sub prima Suprema roll call sub prima sub prima

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Speaker 1: roll call Suprema Deep Were you Romeo Blue Fans? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Dick the scene. Yeah matter. Girl in Toronto named Juliette

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Speaker 1: Green Subrema roll call Subrema sub prima roll call. My

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Speaker 1: name is Fonte and I'm a winner. Check out my

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Speaker 1: new hairstyle from my man's centner God Suma road call Sugar. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm your fantasy. Yeah sure guy, Yeah, I taste so sweet.

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Speaker 1: Bring my road unpaid Bill, Yeah, so much to do? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: shout out to Lenny Kravitz. Yeah, my second favorite jew.

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Speaker 1: There's only one thing on which to focus. Yeah, boss

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Speaker 1: Bill wants to know. Yeah, why did everybody hate circuits?

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Speaker 1: Roll car? Road Car? It's like, yes, so fresh, so clean.

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Speaker 1: Lenny Kravitz is here. Oh yeah, and I'm black velveteen R.

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Speaker 1: My name is Lenny. Yeah, I just woke up. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's gonna be really hard to get me to spoke

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Speaker 1: up Roma roll Wait, I gotta say something real quick. Uh,

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Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen, let it just let it be known that, yeah,

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Speaker 1: was not dressed like this door Mike Burbiglia. She didn't

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Speaker 1: have that gold velvet on. No, not for she has

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Speaker 1: gold velvet and she gold velvet. Team. I'm going out laterally. Okay,

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Speaker 1: this is for all my ladies. That was day was

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Speaker 1: where I was sitting. Okay, there you go. Yeah, girl

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Speaker 1: was sitting out tonight. Yeah. I was gonna say, they

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Speaker 1: got to come out every once and again every it is.

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Speaker 1: It's atrees l and gentleman, welcome to another episode of course,

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Speaker 1: Love Supreme. Uh. Actually, you know what I oh our

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Speaker 1: guest today and apology because I never truly give him

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Speaker 1: enough credit for his his influence and his artistry, and

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Speaker 1: I believe that he has truly kept the the concept

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Speaker 1: of what they once called in the eighties retroneuvo. I

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Speaker 1: think Nelson George's coin that term retroneuvo slash instant vintage

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Speaker 1: vibes alive long before the Daptone Empire or the cats

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Speaker 1: that La cast from break Astro or you know anyone

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Speaker 1: that's built empires off of keeping vintage vibes a lot

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Speaker 1: Mark Rosson yea, yeah, yeah, every everyone you know this

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Speaker 1: man was first so influential, without no doubt, even at

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Speaker 1: this day and age, he's probably still the coolest dude

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Speaker 1: to walk on the planet. Some thirty years after his debut,

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Speaker 1: UH Let Love Rule UH came into our lives and

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Speaker 1: we want to welcome thank you, brother Leonard. Wait, what's

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Speaker 1: your middle names? Albert Leonard Albert Kravit. That's what he

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Speaker 1: look I got his uncle name that tea Leonard Albert Kravice.

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Speaker 1: So to to Bill and Steve. Yes, Now do you

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Speaker 1: feel that the playing fields even, it's like a little

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Speaker 1: more even? This is a very balanced that's right. You

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Speaker 1: know the host is neutual. So I'm just saying your hands,

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Speaker 1: but I mean I'm neutral. I'm just saying that, you know,

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Speaker 1: we these two rarely. This is the most words they've

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Speaker 1: spoken in like twelve combined episode totally. Anyway, n How

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Speaker 1: how are you doing, Pale? I'm good man. I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: try and be as professional as possible on that. Like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know you, So I want to explain my

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Speaker 1: road call real quick, because that was a mess. First

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Speaker 1: of all, your your timing was like that that was me.

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Speaker 1: I feel like you did that on purpose though, no No,

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Speaker 1: I was trying to sink sugar your song and I

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Speaker 1: sucked it all up. Okay, so that's that coming in

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Speaker 1: later and fix that. No, we can't. We can't fix

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Speaker 1: any road calls. But sorry, Yeah that's bad. So how's

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Speaker 1: it going, man? It's going really well. Man. I feel

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Speaker 1: I feel rate creatively. UM, I just had an amazing

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Speaker 1: time making this record, raised vibration, and I feel like

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Speaker 1: I'm where I'm supposed to be, which, like you said,

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Speaker 1: after thirty years, it feels really good too. I feel

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Speaker 1: like you're still being completely authentic to yourself, and that

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Speaker 1: you're still excited to make music. UM, having amazing experiences

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Speaker 1: like like the first ones were, you know. Um, so

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Speaker 1: you're saying there was a time period in which you

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Speaker 1: didn't know if you were coming or going or or

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Speaker 1: well right before making this album, Um, because I've done

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Speaker 1: so much and I've gone too many places musically, I

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Speaker 1: really wasn't sure who I was at that moment, what

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Speaker 1: I had to say, where I was going stylistically with

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Speaker 1: the music. Um. A lot of people were giving opinions, UM,

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Speaker 1: which is good about what they thought I should be doing,

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Speaker 1: and UM, try this, try that work with this one.

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Speaker 1: Do this. You never worked with the producer, you know,

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Speaker 1: you always do everything yourself, you know, ah, and and

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Speaker 1: so and and this whole thing about remaining relevant, which

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Speaker 1: I learned a lot about because it really doesn't mean anything.

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Speaker 1: Uh well to me, Um, being relevant is being true

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Speaker 1: to who you are at any given time. Um, And

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Speaker 1: what was I gonna go do? I was gonna go

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Speaker 1: make a trap record, you know, like not that I

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Speaker 1: don't dig it, but you know what I'm saying, like

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Speaker 1: try to be that guy, like okay, let me go,

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Speaker 1: let me go be hip, and so you know you could, right, So, Um,

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Speaker 1: it's weird. So you're saying that that you were met

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Speaker 1: with quasi indifference about Strut because you played No, I

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Speaker 1: had not to do it. Strut like that was gone.

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Speaker 1: It was after that, was after the tour, after the

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Speaker 1: whole thing, And I knew I was going to make

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Speaker 1: a record, and I had no idea what I was

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Speaker 1: going to do. And so after trying this, trying that,

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Speaker 1: doing this, doing that, listening to everybody writing all these

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Speaker 1: tunes and that I was trying to write, um they

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Speaker 1: were okay, um, but I wasn't feeling it like that.

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Speaker 1: And so I just got really quiet, closed the studio door,

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Speaker 1: went back to just live an island life, being quiet

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Speaker 1: and just being out in nature. And I woke up

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Speaker 1: one morning, like four in the morning with a song

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Speaker 1: in my head Randy the studio started putting it down,

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Speaker 1: and the floodgates just opened. You know. I had to

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Speaker 1: I had I had to wait. I had to wait

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Speaker 1: to receive what it is that I was being given.

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Speaker 1: So when you're in your your island and the Bahamas, uh,

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Speaker 1: is there a pressure like every morning that you wake

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Speaker 1: up when you're like, Okay, where's my inspiration coming from?

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Speaker 1: Because usually when people live and beautiful isolated places like that,

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Speaker 1: usually the purposes is to connect with the land and

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Speaker 1: receive ideas absolutely and just live. So I'm not on

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Speaker 1: the schedule. I'm not you know, like I have to

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Speaker 1: go in every day or I just wait until I

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Speaker 1: feel it. And once I feel it, and once these

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Speaker 1: dreams start and the music starts coming out, then it

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Speaker 1: just keeps coming and then I'm just in there like

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Speaker 1: for months, just working. You know. Yeah, So where were

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Speaker 1: you born? I was born in bed stuy Brooklyn Troop

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Speaker 1: and Coski Hoscot Troop Avenue three. I used to live.

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Speaker 1: It was me j Mike Tyson. You know that crew

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Speaker 1: you were in the Marcy Project, the same neighborhood. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I see, Um in general, Well, I mean i've I've

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Speaker 1: I've seen interviews before where just like you know, you

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Speaker 1: were in two Worlds, Black and well you know, yeah,

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Speaker 1: album was also called a Black and White World. So, um,

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Speaker 1: but what was I mean to be a child in

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Speaker 1: the sixties in Brooklyn? Uh? Was this a well received idea?

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Speaker 1: Especially you've been before, born before. I don't know what

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Speaker 1: you're I'm not trying to fish for your age. You

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Speaker 1: look like twenty years ago because you still you had

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Speaker 1: the hair style from when you first started. Really, but

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Speaker 1: I know there was a six and the third digit

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Speaker 1: of your birth year. So I'm just trying to figure

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Speaker 1: out in terms. I mean, I really caught the seventies.

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Speaker 1: I really caught the early seventies by the time I

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Speaker 1: was really we're late sixties two. But um, I mean

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Speaker 1: the first things I was hearing was Jackson five. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so seventies. So how how what was your childhood like

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Speaker 1: the Yeah, my mom at the time was doing theater.

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Speaker 1: She was in a theater company called the Negro Ensemble.

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Speaker 1: Company and where so many of our great African American

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Speaker 1: actors and actresses come from. Um, so she was doing that.

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Speaker 1: She was a secretary by day at NBC over Rockefeller Plaza.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I grew up in that building and uh

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Speaker 1: yeah she she was a secretary for this guy named

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Speaker 1: Ed Stanley. I forget what his position was. My dad

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Speaker 1: was a producer. He started out as a page became

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Speaker 1: a producer. They met there. They met at thirty Rock.

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Speaker 1: They met at thirty Rock. Damn, so you're a thirty

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Speaker 1: rock baby, Yes, they met. They met at thirty Rock.

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Speaker 1: Uh did he ever say how how I wanted they

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Speaker 1: caught her? But that feels disrespectful? Yes, how did he

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Speaker 1: catch your eyes? He was very much into the arts,

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Speaker 1: very much into music, very much into jazz. Um Like,

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Speaker 1: he produced the Paganini show that was on there, and

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Speaker 1: he was working with all these jazz musicians, hanging around

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Speaker 1: with Louis Armstrong and all these folks, okay, and going

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Speaker 1: to the theater. And he was that. He was that cat.

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Speaker 1: And you know, he was kind of smooth, he was

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Speaker 1: kind of he has he has some swagger. He was Ukrainian,

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Speaker 1: you know, Russian jew. Uh Now, Ukraine gets specific. Before

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Speaker 1: it was all Russia. Um, and he went after my

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Speaker 1: mom and they were dating and and uh and uh yeah,

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Speaker 1: then they got married. Russian Jews don't for their swagger.

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Speaker 1: Shout out to Russian you know what I'm saying. All

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Speaker 1: of us are yeah annotations now. And my mom was older,

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Speaker 1: she was like in her no, but I mean she

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Speaker 1: was like later thirties and um or late thirties almost.

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Speaker 1: I remember when they met. Yeah, my mom hadn't been married.

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Speaker 1: My mom was like she was holding out, so waiting

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Speaker 1: for a real you know, waiting for a Russian Jew,

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Speaker 1: right man, get on your mind. And they were. They

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Speaker 1: were very friendly. You know who Bobby Short is. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Bobby Bobby shut you usuld sing at the Cafe car.

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Speaker 1: I haven't like New York. There you go. That's my ship.

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Speaker 1: He's he's he's a brother who sang like Rogers and

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Speaker 1: Heart and in Ellington and Cole Porter and Cafe Society singing.

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Speaker 1: He wasn't that well, he's probably too young. I'm like,

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Speaker 1: he sang that, but my father is a child. Oh

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Speaker 1: that's him. He sang that. Charlie. Yeah. I think it

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Speaker 1: was Lauren Hutton running around. He was a child, and

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Speaker 1: she was anyway, they were, they were. They were all

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Speaker 1: like a crew, and you grew up around Bobby Short. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Used to drive Bobby home after the gigs. When I

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Speaker 1: got older, used to wait because I used to always

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Speaker 1: go back like when I like when I was a kid.

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Speaker 1: I was going there since I was five years old.

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Speaker 1: And then when I got older, you know, I still

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Speaker 1: went love anytime I was in New York, I went

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Speaker 1: to see Bobby and I would go to the second

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Speaker 1: show and I'd drive him home. But anyway, the point

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Speaker 1: was where you have I'm sure you have. You have

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Speaker 1: for the longest I've known you, all of your your life.

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Speaker 1: Foot notes. Oh, by the way that it's a mind

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Speaker 1: blowing ship. I'm gonna skip a little bit ahead, but

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Speaker 1: you're you're Sherman Hemsley. Story of the first time you

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Speaker 1: smoke weed? Whatever? Yeah, was with Sherman people people, I've

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Speaker 1: heard stories. You know. He was so different from his character.

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Speaker 1: Used it had like an acid, I tried to explain.

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Speaker 1: He used to drive in He had this silver Cadillac

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Speaker 1: uh Seville, the box one first, and he had this

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Speaker 1: this this Mexican brother named Ralph had a big old

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Speaker 1: Curly Afro used to drive him and that car would

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Speaker 1: pull on the lot. All you can see it was

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Speaker 1: like teaching chong. All you can see was smoke and

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Speaker 1: he was either jamming yes or the Grateful Dead Santana

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Speaker 1: I tried. Okay, So the members of Gentle Giant manage.

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Speaker 1: All right, which member of Heart is not married to

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Speaker 1: what's his name from walling Stone Heart? Nancy? You mean, yeah, alright,

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Speaker 1: so which one Anne is married to? Cameron Crowe? Right,

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Speaker 1: I believe ye? So yes, So Nancy, her managers are

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Speaker 1: members of Gentle Giant. And at the time when she

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Speaker 1: came on the Tonight Show, and uh, she really didn't

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Speaker 1: know who Gentle Giant was. And so she's just happened

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Speaker 1: to mention like, yeah, my management, you know, they used

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Speaker 1: to be a band together. Now they're you know, they're

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Speaker 1: management and something like that. D're and something some giants

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Speaker 1: something something gentle or gentle Giants. She said, yeah, what

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Speaker 1: you heard? Those guys and we lost our collective minds

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Speaker 1: because we're a lot of us are from the school

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Speaker 1: with Jay Dilla, and he samples a lot of like

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Speaker 1: prog rock and art rock stuff and got us into

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Speaker 1: all that stuff. So early. Yes, that was Sherman stuff man, right,

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Speaker 1: And so Sherman used to always play like you know,

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Speaker 1: like when you listen to the radio on a black sitcom,

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Speaker 1: you're supposed to like rerun. Used to always dance with Teddy,

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Speaker 1: what's happening, what's happening? Get up? Get never noticed that.

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Speaker 1: I never noticed that. Anytime we run dance, it's like

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Speaker 1: the fake version, the fake version, and just like yeah,

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Speaker 1: and then the and then a good times. It was

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Speaker 1: Jimmy Horne's uh let's do it, listen, let's dance as

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Speaker 1: the floor anyway. But Sherman Hemsley, whenever he's jamming, it's

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Speaker 1: like g it's like something seven nineteen. That was his thing, man.

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Speaker 1: And you know you always saw him in that VP

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Speaker 1: suit with the gray hair. You know they put that

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Speaker 1: gray hair, and he he didn't have gray hair then.

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Speaker 1: And he'd be wearing some tattered blue jeans flares with

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Speaker 1: with the with the yes tidy t shirt and and

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Speaker 1: he'd be smoking some good but in that dress from

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Speaker 1: straight up hippie. And I'm like, you know eleven, and

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Speaker 1: uh my mom was watching me, like what you're doing

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Speaker 1: going up in Sherman's room. So yeah, So are you

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Speaker 1: saying that he was your your hippie shaman or your

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Speaker 1: he was he was that cat on the set. You know,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna be just like it's crazy. Yeah, it's azing, alright,

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Speaker 1: So back to your chos talking about by short. So

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Speaker 1: my mom said to Bobby side, that's my dad's name,

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Speaker 1: side right or Irving? Yeah, middle names, Saul. I mean

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Speaker 1: it's as Jewish as it gets. Some more Saul saw Kravitz.

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Speaker 1: It was my rabbi's name. And uh, my mom said, sigh,

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Speaker 1: asked me to marry him. So Bobby looked at her

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Speaker 1: and said, she said, what do you think I should do?

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Speaker 1: He said, I don't see nobody else asking nice. But

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Speaker 1: well he got a point, and I guess the same thing.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of crazy because my mom was all that,

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Speaker 1: you know. But anyway, they got together and I'm sitting here.

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Speaker 1: Was she the fashion queen that she was on TV? Amazing? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: She was? She was that lady from the yeah oh yeah. Side. Note,

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Speaker 1: this is weird to tell you like three million people. No, no, no,

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Speaker 1: I try to tell you last time as a surprise,

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Speaker 1: but you gotta have you ever met Apollonia Coterio y no,

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Speaker 1: we spoke because she has told you for me. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: she had the pictures for me. She toldever, No, she's

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Speaker 1: got the pictures. Do you remember the episode when the

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Speaker 1: Jefferson shot uh in Hawaii? Yeah, the whole week? Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So apparently she took like a bunch of polaroids and

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Speaker 1: had photo books but left it behind, and uh, Apollonia

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Speaker 1: just happened to be scrounging through like, you know, vintage

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Speaker 1: stores or whatever, and saw found my mom's pictures but

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Speaker 1: in att yeah, at some sort of like five and

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Speaker 1: dime thrift store things. So she yo, what any of

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Speaker 1: her clothes still around? Not for enohing. I just wonder, Zoe,

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Speaker 1: you get that joint tailor you cut it off a half.

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Speaker 1: I assume that your mom was like five eleven at least,

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Speaker 1: like yeah, yeah, that means it's not okay. There's a

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Speaker 1: couple of pieces of it always got like and they

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Speaker 1: should be in a museum somewhere, not for nothing too.

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Speaker 1: If they can't, f Zoe, they should be a museum.

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Speaker 1: They should have be in the Msonian in d City.

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Speaker 1: I think we're all everyone's looking everyone's looking at me.

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Speaker 1: What I'm sorry? I am a lack anyway, I didn't

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Speaker 1: you really think I didn't know Zoe that small? Small too,

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Speaker 1: but I let some things out. No, but I mean, dude,

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Speaker 1: like trust me. So he used to sleep on his couch.

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Speaker 1: I remember that he had a long time in Philly,

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Speaker 1: was in band and whatnot. For real, Lenny and Zoe,

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Speaker 1: you are single hand? Did we responsible for all of

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Speaker 1: the French toast jokes? Y'all got with the oils that

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Speaker 1: I know, like coconut oil. For my two years, Zoe

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Speaker 1: wouldn't tell me the vanilla oil that she uses. There's

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Speaker 1: a vanilla, now, there's a vanilla. But then at your house,

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Speaker 1: you know, okay, another tea in my moment, you know,

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Speaker 1: like when when you're wait, what do you say? Said

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Speaker 1: she smell like you? Because you know she was first okay,

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Speaker 1: got it? She wouldn't tell me. I hoped was first vanilla.

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Speaker 1: I got serious, and then no, and then uh, she

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Speaker 1: would never tell me. And then uh I went to

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Speaker 1: that cookout at your spot in Miami and in the

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00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:38,359
Speaker 1: bathroom I saw the bottle there, that's right, and you

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Speaker 1: started using it well, But then but then I went

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Speaker 1: this dude smelled like a vanilla cake. I remember, But

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Speaker 1: you still you're not spraying yourself with poopo re right,

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Speaker 1: because it was alright, but like these little were the

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Speaker 1: silver bottles, bottles, they were these little bottles, right, they

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Speaker 1: came from France, right exactly. Yeah, but she left it

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Speaker 1: there so I took a photo of it and then

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00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:11,360
Speaker 1: I ordered like forty two gallons of it it at Costco.

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Speaker 1: Sack legit mad at me for like Jack and her

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Speaker 1: swag like that was her thing, right, Yeah, she got

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Speaker 1: mad at me, so she stopped using it. But could

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Speaker 1: be girls and all that stuff, like like you know,

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Speaker 1: I had a girlfriend in Paris that used to wear

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Speaker 1: it and she was a little girl. She she loved

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Speaker 1: that oil. That that's where that oil Worksbusters, I'm sorry,

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Speaker 1: this is just rock that oil smell good today. Second

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Speaker 1: of all, do you have like a favorite smell thing

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Speaker 1: or do you just rocking straight? Lenny? I'm just because

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Speaker 1: we were talking about smells. I just wanted to yeah

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Speaker 1: you personally, yeah, straight, n it's straight, Len a lot

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Speaker 1: of a lot of the time saying we're talking about No,

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Speaker 1: we were talking about the oils. So anyway, can we

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Speaker 1: we went from French toast anyway, man, let me get

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Speaker 1: to music. At least. So wait, do you have any

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Speaker 1: siblings or you the only child? I have two half

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Speaker 1: sisters from my dad's first marriage. Okay, where are they?

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Speaker 1: They sing? It's like speed dating tonight. Are they older sisters? Right? Yes?

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Speaker 1: Just you need that in your life, older than me,

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Speaker 1: older beautiful Jewish women. Okay, I need them in my life.

331
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Speaker 1: So how did you get interested in music? It was

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Speaker 1: all around me? I uh okay. First concerts. First concert

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Speaker 1: was Jackson five Master Square Garden with the Commodore's opening

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Speaker 1: before they were called the Commodore's they had. I remember

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Speaker 1: talking to Lionel about it. He's like, we didn't even

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Speaker 1: have a name. Then they had some other name. They

337
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:07,320
Speaker 1: were going under Saw James at the Apollo when I

338
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Speaker 1: was like six, Saw then started going. You know. I

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Speaker 1: saw Duke Ellington at the Rainbow Room. Um. I used

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Speaker 1: to hang with him because my parents were close with him.

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Speaker 1: I remember being at a sound check sitting on his

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Speaker 1: lap while he played. It was actually that was my

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Speaker 1: fifth birthday, um, because they played Happy Birthday to me. Whoay,

344
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:42,920
Speaker 1: so Miles, all that stuff, Lionel Hampton, Sara Van, you know,

345
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Speaker 1: going to the opera, going to the ballet, going to

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Speaker 1: Shakespeare in the Park, going to off Broadway and you know,

347
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Speaker 1: Black Theater and Broadway. So all this stuff was around me.

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Speaker 1: My parents used to take me out with them, which

349
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Speaker 1: was really cool, whenever I could go, whenever they saw fit.

350
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Speaker 1: Took me to parties, they took me to clubs, they

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Speaker 1: took me to go see stuff. So I saw these

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Speaker 1: people before I was ten years old. I'd seen like everybody,

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Speaker 1: one of the few kids allowed in the studio before

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Speaker 1: that that I didn't make. I I don't have any

355
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Speaker 1: pictures like with Liza Minnelli. And but were you usually

356
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Speaker 1: the loan child in those situations where there's like maybe

357
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Speaker 1: a couple of other kids and you might see no

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00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 1: excuse me, So when did you discover that you had

359
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:43,600
Speaker 1: a voice? Not until well, okay, so when I was eleven,

360
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Speaker 1: when my mom got the Jeffersons, we moved to l

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Speaker 1: a And yeah, I'm sorry, the building actually Drummer Trivia,

362
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:56,920
Speaker 1: the building that's on I forget eighty something in third

363
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:01,359
Speaker 1: Grady Tate lived in that building. What and he was

364
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:03,919
Speaker 1: a friend of ours. So before the Jefferson's we used

365
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 1: to go over. In fact, Grady Tait gave me my

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Speaker 1: first drumsticks and drum pad. Yeah, gave me my first

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00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:13,240
Speaker 1: little Remo drum pad with a little gray rim. Yeah,

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00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 1: he gave me my first sticks and pad. But he

369
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Speaker 1: used to live in that building that was the Jefferson's building.

370
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Speaker 1: Everyone's like Grady Tate about to say just help help,

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Speaker 1: they help the baby. He's noted jazz, you know, God, studio,

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Speaker 1: drummer everything. If you remember, see, I'm bringing up stuff,

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Speaker 1: remember schoolhouse, frock that stuff. There was a song called

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Speaker 1: Naughty Number nine. Naughty Number nine was gratty tap. Yeah,

375
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:48,119
Speaker 1: he's also yeah got he also sing. I asked questions

376
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 1: for me, but I also asked for the people because

377
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:55,840
Speaker 1: I asked the question. I wonder why too, because Mike

378
00:27:55,880 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 1: were big Leia didn't you were like twelve hoodies. I

379
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:06,800
Speaker 1: don't know what you're talking about anyway, so to my voice.

380
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:09,520
Speaker 1: So we moved to l A, which was a culture

381
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Speaker 1: shock because I was getting ready to go into the

382
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:14,400
Speaker 1: sixth grade and now I'm in Santa Monica and it's

383
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:16,160
Speaker 1: like no one on the street, and I'm like, where

384
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:19,359
Speaker 1: the hell am I Little white kids with blonde hair

385
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 1: on skateboards going by at it and it was very

386
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:25,719
Speaker 1: new to me anyway, she wanted to keep me off

387
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 1: the street because she was going to be very busy

388
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:31,760
Speaker 1: doing this, doing this show. So there was a boys

389
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:35,600
Speaker 1: choir that a friend of her son was in called

390
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 1: the California Boys Choir, and that boys choir at the

391
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 1: time was the second rated boys choir in the world,

392
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Speaker 1: next to the Vienna Boys Choir. So my mom had

393
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Speaker 1: me audition. She shot, I'll be great, would keep me

394
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:49,960
Speaker 1: off the street. I learned about music and anyway, I

395
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 1: ended up auditioning, not really understanding what was going on,

396
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:58,080
Speaker 1: got in, got trained, and then graduated into the concert

397
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Speaker 1: choir and then ended up but my first concert was

398
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Speaker 1: Hollywood Bowl opening night of the season, Maller third Symphony

399
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 1: l a Philharmonic Um. I ended up singing on albums

400
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 1: with zuber Mada and the first record expected my first

401
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 1: studio session was doing the Maller third, the same one

402
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 1: but with m zuber Mada. So I sag. I had

403
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:27,360
Speaker 1: this classical career. So I had this classical voice, and

404
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:30,840
Speaker 1: then my voice changed. When I was like fifteen, left

405
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:34,240
Speaker 1: the choir and then went to high school and I

406
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:39,600
Speaker 1: was just really playing guitar, bass and drums always yeah,

407
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 1: but I didn't want to be the singer, and I

408
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 1: just didn't I wanted to be I just want to

409
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:49,120
Speaker 1: be the guitar player or the bass player, the drummer.

410
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 1: I wanted to be just chilling on the side, you

411
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 1: know who, guy in the glasses. And then I ended

412
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:58,720
Speaker 1: up in a band, and then something happened with the

413
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:00,360
Speaker 1: singer and they all looking at me, and then I

414
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 1: ended up being the singer. And I was very insecure

415
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 1: about it, for it wasn't then of the band wave. Yeah,

416
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:12,000
Speaker 1: what what period was this? Oh? This is like uh,

417
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 1: this is like eighty really so it's like Rick James

418
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:25,840
Speaker 1: Jackson's Prince, you know, Cameo, you know black Beard? Yes, yeah,

419
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 1: Scorns sent two keyboard players, drums, get two guitars, bass,

420
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:33,600
Speaker 1: you know the whole thing. Anyone notable in the group.

421
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 1: Did you ever get in the studio with him? We

422
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:41,360
Speaker 1: did some demos, but this was all like really early stuff.

423
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 1: Do you know where those demos are? Do you know

424
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 1: what those guys are? Albert Cravit, do you know where

425
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:52,160
Speaker 1: those demos are? Look at me like that? Are you

426
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:56,959
Speaker 1: fiving on right now? You know what? I know? If

427
00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 1: anybody finds something gonna be you so that was your

428
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:05,320
Speaker 1: first band. Yeah, it was like because I was just

429
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 1: I was really I moved out when I was fifteen,

430
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:10,920
Speaker 1: and I was just like, wait, how does one do that?

431
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:16,480
Speaker 1: Um another drumming story. Okay, I was fifteen years old,

432
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:19,240
Speaker 1: living in l A, living in my parents house. My

433
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:21,760
Speaker 1: dad and I were like having a hard time button heads.

434
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:27,240
Speaker 1: There was a Buddy rich concert at Disneyland. Disneyland was

435
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 1: having a jazz series, so that night was going to

436
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:33,880
Speaker 1: be Buddy Rich and then separately Freddie Hubbard and a

437
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:37,520
Speaker 1: few other folks, and so I wanted to go see Disneyland.

438
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:43,000
Speaker 1: Say what, Freddy Hubbard? It did? Man? Yeah, that's what

439
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 1: it's like inside Sugar Steve's head all the time. You

440
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:51,760
Speaker 1: just summed it up. So I told my dad, are

441
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:55,800
Speaker 1: you thinking of cursing out? Like? I mean, that could

442
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:58,840
Speaker 1: go so many different ways in front of cheering, so

443
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:03,080
Speaker 1: a sorry, sorry, no no. So I told my dad

444
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:05,000
Speaker 1: I want to go see Buddy rich because you know,

445
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 1: I want to see him. My dad was like, you

446
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:09,880
Speaker 1: went out last night. I was like, yeah, but tonight

447
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:12,600
Speaker 1: I let see Buddy Richard. We got in this big

448
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:14,480
Speaker 1: argument and that was the first time I did that,

449
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:17,520
Speaker 1: Like Richard pryor thing where Richard Pryer talks about getting

450
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:19,160
Speaker 1: into a fight with his dad and standing up and

451
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:21,880
Speaker 1: I'll kick your ass. I'm not afraid of you anymore.

452
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:26,440
Speaker 1: All that, and I was shaking and my dad was

453
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:30,880
Speaker 1: like ex Green Beret, like, oh crazy jumping out of

454
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 1: airplanes with knives and machine guns. I'm stand up. He's

455
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:41,200
Speaker 1: looking at me like I'm crazy. And that was it.

456
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 1: So it was like, you know, you live, you live

457
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 1: under my roof, under my rules, or you go. And

458
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:57,360
Speaker 1: I went was Buddy rich Worth. There was some mean

459
00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:01,560
Speaker 1: press rolls, baby, I mean wait. So at the end

460
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:05,520
Speaker 1: of the night where I got Buddy and Fronday, I'm like,

461
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 1: oh shout, I ain't gonna where to go. And my

462
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:14,720
Speaker 1: mom was freaking out. Remember there's no cell phones, you

463
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 1: know what I mean. So but I stayed out. That

464
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 1: was it. I was in the street, I was in

465
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 1: people's couches. I slept on studio floors. I stopped. I

466
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:26,640
Speaker 1: stopped in a car for the four Pinto for a while.

467
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 1: Did it ever cross your mind to go stay with

468
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:33,480
Speaker 1: the Jefferson's and that in that building in New York?

469
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:41,080
Speaker 1: I just got de Luxe apart exactly place. We wait,

470
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:44,640
Speaker 1: I mean, so were you were your pre or your

471
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:51,000
Speaker 1: fourier years? Were they independent? Yeah? I mean after I left,

472
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:55,280
Speaker 1: I know, even before like what because even the idea

473
00:33:55,320 --> 00:34:00,880
Speaker 1: of going out like probably like I'm going that usually

474
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:02,960
Speaker 1: like you know, father's all of that. You you ain't

475
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:06,960
Speaker 1: telling me you going out? You're gonna ask? I was respectful,

476
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 1: but that's at that point. We just but what was

477
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:12,680
Speaker 1: what was out there for you? I haven't talked to

478
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:18,480
Speaker 1: any black celebrity that was like coming of age in

479
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:22,919
Speaker 1: the late seventies in early eighties? So what is out

480
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:26,040
Speaker 1: there for you? In Los Angeles during this time? Man?

481
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:28,040
Speaker 1: It was wild. There's no House of Blues, There's no

482
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 1: like what Sunset Boulevard looking like? Uh? Well, there was

483
00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:35,160
Speaker 1: the Roxy. What was your hangout? What was your like?

484
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:37,120
Speaker 1: I mean I hung out of people's houses. I hung

485
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:40,400
Speaker 1: out it at uh I was? I was friends with

486
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 1: with Kennedy Gordy also known as Rockwell, we went to

487
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:47,880
Speaker 1: high school together. I was gonna say, do you have

488
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:56,480
Speaker 1: any Apollo connections? Not Apollo when I met? All right,

489
00:34:56,640 --> 00:35:01,759
Speaker 1: so okay to us? Now I went to a show, right,

490
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:05,040
Speaker 1: I went to a Jo show? If Benny came in

491
00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:11,600
Speaker 1: and nobody knows about Polo right when y'all a deep connoisseurs. Yeah,

492
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:15,920
Speaker 1: so when I mentioned it, Benny's eyes got like, how

493
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:19,279
Speaker 1: do you know? And shut then up and then the

494
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:28,440
Speaker 1: dance moves. I knew. I knew Benny when he was

495
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:30,800
Speaker 1: sixteen because I was going to Beverly. I was in

496
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 1: the same class as Kennedy, as Rockwell and then it's

497
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:41,000
Speaker 1: older older brother Carry and Benny was berries gopher assistant

498
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 1: when he had the afro on the whole thing. Benny,

499
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:47,680
Speaker 1: Benny was his the diddy to Andre Rolle. Yeah, yeah,

500
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:52,440
Speaker 1: that was that was big. Yeah. And uh, because you

501
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:56,640
Speaker 1: said the second you said wave, I said, damn, that's

502
00:35:56,640 --> 00:36:00,160
Speaker 1: almost like one step removed away from Apollo. Yeah, and

503
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:06,160
Speaker 1: so it was. But you gotta tell So I used

504
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:07,799
Speaker 1: to find I used to be up at Barry's house

505
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:10,120
Speaker 1: a lot. You know, you'd wake up in the morning

506
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:13,800
Speaker 1: and Jermaine be sitting there and Diana and you know,

507
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:17,080
Speaker 1: Marvin and everybody. I mean, it was, however, are you

508
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:23,000
Speaker 1: getting at this point? Like and did you know like

509
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:25,719
Speaker 1: the magnitude I had never seen, man. I grew up

510
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:29,600
Speaker 1: in New York, you know, in apartments, I had never

511
00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 1: seen anything like these people were living in Like I

512
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:35,720
Speaker 1: didn't even know what existed. Get his own arcade, pinball

513
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:40,120
Speaker 1: machines and video games and you know, VHS players all

514
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:45,080
Speaker 1: over the place, rooms and cars and instruments and you know,

515
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:47,759
Speaker 1: I'd never seen anything like that in my life. It

516
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 1: was a bugout. But yeah, that was one of the

517
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 1: places I used to hang. And then I stayed with people,

518
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:55,800
Speaker 1: you know, living on couches and you know all that

519
00:36:55,920 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 1: kind of thing. So, but the scene, it was a

520
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:07,759
Speaker 1: lot of clubs, clubs, studios, people's houses, studios. Clubs were good. Then. Yeah,

521
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:12,480
Speaker 1: well I know that, you know, the the hard rock

522
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:14,880
Speaker 1: heavy metal scene that was formed on Sunset Boulevard at

523
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:17,759
Speaker 1: least like for the Motley Cruise and all that those.

524
00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:22,439
Speaker 1: But where would the progressive black people hang? Like? Where

525
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:24,920
Speaker 1: were they allowed? What spaces were they allowed to be in? There?

526
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:28,319
Speaker 1: Weren't clubs like where those bands really? Well, actually there

527
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:30,480
Speaker 1: were some clubs on Cranshaw. There was one called the

528
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 1: Total Experience. All you know who I am, right, they

529
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:44,360
Speaker 1: know more than I do. Okay, I'm just I'm Ronald McDonald.

530
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:52,719
Speaker 1: These guys are grim rock, you know. Croy As a

531
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:54,480
Speaker 1: middle question, so when he's when he said that, what

532
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:57,840
Speaker 1: did that trigger with y'all too? O Son Simmons was

533
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:04,279
Speaker 1: the owner of Total Experience. Simmons that all that the

534
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:09,000
Speaker 1: club was also where they shot the Dold Mic I

535
00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:11,919
Speaker 1: actually did a gig in the toll Experienced once. Yeah.

536
00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:16,239
Speaker 1: Really what was that club like? Because everybody, man, it

537
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:20,399
Speaker 1: was just that's for all the our House of Blues, Yes, yes,

538
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:23,359
Speaker 1: And then there was a jazz place on the brand

539
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:28,920
Speaker 1: Washington called the Parisian Room where Arthur Price sock used

540
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:31,960
Speaker 1: to you know, Arthur Price, don't do that because you

541
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:33,440
Speaker 1: know what, when you look at me, you don't look

542
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:40,359
Speaker 1: at Bill. It's kind of special. That's gonna like, that's

543
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:47,759
Speaker 1: gonna help her out the lower brown commercials that New

544
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:50,040
Speaker 1: York's not the only one that doesn't know that because

545
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:54,279
Speaker 1: Bill Sherman, you didn't not don't know tonight. You don't

546
00:38:54,280 --> 00:39:01,080
Speaker 1: know tonight. Let it be low. She wasn't commercial. But

547
00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 1: in the in the seventies there was a commercial side

548
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:08,160
Speaker 1: side Lenny's bringing out all the assists on the on

549
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:13,280
Speaker 1: the side of mirror stories. So another reason why television

550
00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:17,959
Speaker 1: was taken away from me is whenever uh, we would

551
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:23,960
Speaker 1: have Gingerbrell for dinner and Canada d comal. Yeah. I

552
00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:27,360
Speaker 1: would get a mug and then pour my candidate drives

553
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:31,839
Speaker 1: just so that the yeah it can flow over. There's

554
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:35,400
Speaker 1: must be a reason why we know each other. I

555
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:41,680
Speaker 1: did the original reason why television, But then you don't

556
00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:45,520
Speaker 1: step up to like Martin Nelly's Oh that was like

557
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:51,600
Speaker 1: the Champagne of parents. Stopped that real quick. No, I'm

558
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:54,520
Speaker 1: fortunately mom, I'm sorry about this, Mom, I gotta tell

559
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:57,279
Speaker 1: this story. The main reason why TV was taking out

560
00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:01,680
Speaker 1: my life was over Hawaiian punch commercials because if you're

561
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:07,719
Speaker 1: a three year old, an impressionable right, right, So basically

562
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:11,160
Speaker 1: maybe it's a racist commercial because like the wine native

563
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:13,640
Speaker 1: guy would go to the tourists and say, how about

564
00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:20,000
Speaker 1: nice and wine punch? He's like sure, and he right.

565
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:22,239
Speaker 1: And so one day I told my mom's mind, come here,

566
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:28,080
Speaker 1: I want you to say sure, to ask you. She's like, huh,

567
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:32,279
Speaker 1: just say sure, okay, okay? How about Mom said sure?

568
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:36,440
Speaker 1: And and then no more. TV got the fact that

569
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:39,560
Speaker 1: you're still alive ever doing that to a black moment.

570
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:44,520
Speaker 1: I almost want to beat you myself. Dog mom, she wait,

571
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 1: stop all those stuff too late? You didn't get the

572
00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:58,560
Speaker 1: phone corner of the hot wheel track straight in the

573
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:05,919
Speaker 1: straight track. The girl, Wait a minute, are you saying

574
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:08,359
Speaker 1: if roxy roper, use a strap because that would make

575
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:17,239
Speaker 1: me happy. But her favorite thing, we're not even get

576
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:24,120
Speaker 1: to Mama's in like can ben his weight telling us

577
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:27,239
Speaker 1: what her weapon of choice was on her kind of

578
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 1: I'm sorry rose her kind of mind. Fun one was

579
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:35,280
Speaker 1: like she had this big um brush like a board

580
00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:41,719
Speaker 1: that wood, yeah, and with that handle, and she'd had

581
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:44,440
Speaker 1: me come she said come here, and she said put

582
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:48,759
Speaker 1: out your hand and I had to put knuckles up,

583
00:41:51,560 --> 00:42:00,279
Speaker 1: put out your put it out, put your hand. Yeah, yeah, sorry, yeah, yeah,

584
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:11,080
Speaker 1: but wait, you actually said something before you got to wait,

585
00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:18,520
Speaker 1: which was you said on Crunchhall. Now the thing is Crunshaw.

586
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:24,680
Speaker 1: That okay, that's where black focus. This is cshaw. I

587
00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:28,480
Speaker 1: mean it's still real. But that was really real. Yeah?

588
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:33,200
Speaker 1: But was it cool? I mean did you feel I mean,

589
00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:37,440
Speaker 1: I'm when gang had activity was heavy in l A.

590
00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:41,080
Speaker 1: Were you cool then? I used to go to the

591
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:43,400
Speaker 1: drag races. I used to do all that stuff. Man,

592
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:47,800
Speaker 1: you went, Yes, I was out there, man, I was

593
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:49,960
Speaker 1: in the street. My mom would have had a heart attack.

594
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:56,960
Speaker 1: That was everywhere. But why, Like because I was free

595
00:42:57,000 --> 00:42:58,439
Speaker 1: and I was hanging out with all kinds of people,

596
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:01,200
Speaker 1: and I'd meet people and you up in their house

597
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:02,520
Speaker 1: that night. You don't even know who they are, you

598
00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:04,279
Speaker 1: know what I mean? Like I was like that you

599
00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:08,040
Speaker 1: were that trusting I was, Yeah, I mean I had

600
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:10,319
Speaker 1: I thought I had a good sense of who folks were.

601
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:14,120
Speaker 1: And I and I, you know, I would meet people,

602
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:16,960
Speaker 1: then you'd like sleeping in their house, like knowing them

603
00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:19,880
Speaker 1: for like a night, you know. Like but like I

604
00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:23,440
Speaker 1: never had a problem. You never had a problem. You know.

605
00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:27,080
Speaker 1: My parents were just like not into me hanging with

606
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:29,960
Speaker 1: strangers or they got to know my mom, wou wouldn't

607
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:33,920
Speaker 1: have been dude, she she didn't know, you know, so

608
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:36,200
Speaker 1: you got your But then I would I would yourself

609
00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:38,320
Speaker 1: fift I would go see her, like I would go

610
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:41,280
Speaker 1: to the set. I go to the Jefferson's, to the tapings.

611
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:43,919
Speaker 1: I go see her, you know, go watch the show.

612
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:46,040
Speaker 1: I didn't. I mean, I still was. She worried about

613
00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:49,319
Speaker 1: you completely, but like I don't know if he's gonna

614
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:52,279
Speaker 1: make it. And but now when Zoe turned fifteen, and

615
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:53,799
Speaker 1: I looked at it and I was like, oh yeah,

616
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:56,239
Speaker 1: I see now I see. I mean no, I mean

617
00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:58,360
Speaker 1: Zoe didn't leave anything, but like I was gonna says,

618
00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:01,600
Speaker 1: he's rather conservative. If she didn't leave till she was

619
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:04,640
Speaker 1: eighteen when she went to school, you know. Yeah, but

620
00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:07,880
Speaker 1: she just never struck me as like, I mean, she

621
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:10,560
Speaker 1: could have easily went down the low hand route she was,

622
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:15,680
Speaker 1: but she believe me they were coming for her, really

623
00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:20,280
Speaker 1: they were coming for but no, she she held it together.

624
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:22,640
Speaker 1: She just I was impressed the fact that she just

625
00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:25,960
Speaker 1: saw that as corny, you know what I mean, she

626
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:28,759
Speaker 1: just like that's corny. I was like, oh, ship, you

627
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:32,680
Speaker 1: taught me something m like because she's like like I'll

628
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:35,640
Speaker 1: be DJ somewhere and she's like, I'm tired, like grandma.

629
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:39,680
Speaker 1: That's how I see her as my grandmother. So how

630
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:43,480
Speaker 1: did you How did Zaro enter your life? And how

631
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:50,799
Speaker 1: interest Okay, well before the moment when everyone so, First

632
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:52,919
Speaker 1: of all, I met Zoro on the lawn of Beverly

633
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:56,160
Speaker 1: Hills High. He went there too, No, he did not

634
00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:59,000
Speaker 1: go there, but he was trying to meet people. He'd

635
00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:05,520
Speaker 1: come down from from Oregon and he wanted to meet people.

636
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:09,239
Speaker 1: So he was we had this big lawn looked like

637
00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:13,120
Speaker 1: a country club at Beverly High, and uh, he had

638
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:17,520
Speaker 1: this boom box, and he had a sister who was

639
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:21,319
Speaker 1: dating a very wealthy Middle Eastern man. So this guy

640
00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:25,719
Speaker 1: would would buy him suits, silk suits and watches and things.

641
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:28,960
Speaker 1: So he was like all he was all g Q

642
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:33,200
Speaker 1: down on the lawn Beverly Hills High with a drum pad,

643
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:35,839
Speaker 1: a pair of sticks, a boom box, playing earth Wind

644
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:38,080
Speaker 1: and Fire and jamming to the earth Wind and Fire.

645
00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:41,480
Speaker 1: So of course I come out of class and I

646
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:45,520
Speaker 1: see this dude on the lawn like sitting there playing Jupiter,

647
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:50,280
Speaker 1: you know, And I was like, who's this cat funky?

648
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:53,080
Speaker 1: So I went up to talk to him, and that's

649
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:56,400
Speaker 1: how everything started. Now, Buddy Rich, that was me and

650
00:45:56,520 --> 00:46:01,279
Speaker 1: Zoro formerly known as Dan Donnelly. Okay, that's his real name,

651
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:04,560
Speaker 1: Dan Donaldy. So he was Dan. So Dan was the

652
00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:07,640
Speaker 1: one that drove me to Disneyland. That we went. We

653
00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:16,879
Speaker 1: went to the concert together and Buick Regel cream colored

654
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:19,759
Speaker 1: Buick regal Um. Was he what the apparency of him

655
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:22,200
Speaker 1: as the bad influence and you know he was he

656
00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:26,600
Speaker 1: was a good kid. No, no, he he was Danny.

657
00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:30,880
Speaker 1: Now Zoro happened because I got him the audition for

658
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:34,759
Speaker 1: New Addition? Wait, how that happened? Okay, this all leads

659
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:38,200
Speaker 1: all this connects. Now you Zoro is a connection here

660
00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:41,919
Speaker 1: because I was trying to get record deals and doing

661
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:45,120
Speaker 1: my thing, and at the time Gerald Busby was trying

662
00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:47,160
Speaker 1: to sign me and he was over M c A

663
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:51,360
Speaker 1: after he had left A and M Records and so

664
00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:55,080
Speaker 1: him and Luill Silas and all them cats, and they're like,

665
00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:56,800
Speaker 1: we're trying to put a band together for New Addition.

666
00:46:56,880 --> 00:46:59,000
Speaker 1: Do you know a drummer? I said, I know a

667
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:03,160
Speaker 1: great drummer. I called Dan. Yo, they're having a new Edition, Uh,

668
00:47:03,719 --> 00:47:07,319
Speaker 1: drum audition. Here's the address. But he went he got

669
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:12,160
Speaker 1: the gig now, so now he's playing New Edition. I'm

670
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:15,040
Speaker 1: going to see them play shows. I think the first

671
00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:19,759
Speaker 1: one I saw was at is there is there around Amphitheater, Westbury.

672
00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:23,920
Speaker 1: I went to see a new Edition and U t

673
00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:29,000
Speaker 1: FO opened Yo. The U t FO killed it. They

674
00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:32,560
Speaker 1: all killed it. So I'm going to see shows when

675
00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:35,719
Speaker 1: I can. Now they're playing Universally app the Theater in

676
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:40,480
Speaker 1: Los Angeles. I go to see. I go with I

677
00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:46,560
Speaker 1: go with Rockwell we went together to the concert and

678
00:47:46,719 --> 00:47:54,960
Speaker 1: that's where I met Lisa bone yep, because she let

679
00:47:55,000 --> 00:48:04,680
Speaker 1: me started. Yes, yes, waitnute, do you know who can

680
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:09,759
Speaker 1: you ask Bill this squeeze questions? Because my comment denominated

681
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:11,800
Speaker 1: it's more fun with you. Do you know he's always

682
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:15,280
Speaker 1: the drummer. He would be the quest lover of the eighties.

683
00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:19,000
Speaker 1: So basically he was a cat. He must add his

684
00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:21,719
Speaker 1: own publicist because he you know, he did it. He

685
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:25,480
Speaker 1: was his own publicist. That's him. He was damn donnally. Okay,

686
00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:28,560
Speaker 1: he gets the gig with new addition, He's like, I

687
00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:31,839
Speaker 1: need a hook. I gotta figure this out, so he's

688
00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:37,280
Speaker 1: Spanish Zoro. He gets a hat and the pencil mustard.

689
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:40,520
Speaker 1: So watch if you watch, because then he played with

690
00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:48,960
Speaker 1: Bobby Brown. Watch the big ass. Yeah. He then ends

691
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:53,080
Speaker 1: up on the covers and inside of Black Beat and Soul,

692
00:48:54,400 --> 00:48:58,120
Speaker 1: right on Cynthia Hornor and all the folks. And he

693
00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:03,000
Speaker 1: turned himself into it. He made himself way before that

694
00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:07,839
Speaker 1: was really happening. Mostolls will be popping. Yeah low key,

695
00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:19,279
Speaker 1: maybe maybe should be zero supreme. Yeah, good work. No,

696
00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:25,279
Speaker 1: I'm just saying that had that might have had an

697
00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:29,880
Speaker 1: effect on me because I was beside there were no

698
00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:33,719
Speaker 1: celebrity drummers. Celebrity drummers and he was just in right on.

699
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:38,160
Speaker 1: I know who Zara is because you know, he was

700
00:49:38,239 --> 00:49:40,440
Speaker 1: a famous drummer in the early eighties and then when

701
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:42,200
Speaker 1: I came out of my first album eight nine, he

702
00:49:42,320 --> 00:49:45,799
Speaker 1: was came back and he was my touring drummer. Okay, see,

703
00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:47,400
Speaker 1: most of us that start with Sindy didn't know that

704
00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:50,800
Speaker 1: he came on the third album. Zara was on the

705
00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:55,480
Speaker 1: first two tours that Mama said, yeah, and he is where.

706
00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:59,000
Speaker 1: He's back in l A. He's still drumming and uh,

707
00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:02,520
Speaker 1: you know he he was explained with Frankie Valley a

708
00:50:02,600 --> 00:50:08,040
Speaker 1: couple of years ago. Wait, a hatless zero came up

709
00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:12,960
Speaker 1: to me and gave me, what time are we talking?

710
00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:15,640
Speaker 1: I was still at felonce. So let's say two thousand

711
00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:22,240
Speaker 1: and tens, A hatless Zoro came up to me outside

712
00:50:22,280 --> 00:50:27,319
Speaker 1: of thirty Rock and gave me, he's a these are

713
00:50:27,400 --> 00:50:29,279
Speaker 1: for you, and he put it in my hand and

714
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:35,880
Speaker 1: walked away. And it was twenty of his books, his autobiography.

715
00:50:37,160 --> 00:50:38,640
Speaker 1: I didn't know, and I was just looked like, who

716
00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:42,560
Speaker 1: would do. He's a motivational speaker as well, but at

717
00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:44,800
Speaker 1: the time I was a little paranoid because now in

718
00:50:45,239 --> 00:50:50,839
Speaker 1: the in the post nine eleven, the stranger walks out

719
00:50:51,719 --> 00:50:53,759
Speaker 1: and I'm not saying you ever talked to Gnard to

720
00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:57,600
Speaker 1: Michael Walden, Zoro sort of did that to me. He

721
00:50:57,760 --> 00:51:01,480
Speaker 1: was like, brother blessings, Yeah, this is for you. You

722
00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:04,200
Speaker 1: don't know who I am. But then and he put

723
00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:06,759
Speaker 1: in my hand and he ran off. And instantly I

724
00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:08,919
Speaker 1: was like, you said some white powder and then page

725
00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:15,440
Speaker 1: or what? And I looked and I was like, oh, books.

726
00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:17,640
Speaker 1: And then when I got in the car and pulled

727
00:51:17,680 --> 00:51:20,360
Speaker 1: the book out, I was like, holy ship, that was Zoro,

728
00:51:20,560 --> 00:51:22,600
Speaker 1: Like who does that? Like that was the thing? Like

729
00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:31,400
Speaker 1: he just the night he just are you googling right now?

730
00:51:33,360 --> 00:51:35,120
Speaker 1: Am I supposed? This is what everybody should be doing.

731
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:38,120
Speaker 1: Right was listening to quest lets And I had a

732
00:51:38,280 --> 00:51:44,799
Speaker 1: DJ company in high school. He owned the equipment because

733
00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:49,120
Speaker 1: he had the bread right and I DJA called g

734
00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:53,200
Speaker 1: Q Productions. I mean it was you know, and we

735
00:51:53,320 --> 00:51:56,120
Speaker 1: did the local house parties in Baldwin Hills and Dara Heights,

736
00:51:58,239 --> 00:52:02,520
Speaker 1: Yes Heights, yes, baby, Wow? What kind of stuff did

737
00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:06,520
Speaker 1: you play? Hills in the jungle down? You know what

738
00:52:06,719 --> 00:52:09,560
Speaker 1: was happening at the time, you know, like you said,

739
00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:16,880
Speaker 1: Yarborn people's cameo. You know, this also solidifies that a

740
00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:20,839
Speaker 1: lot of our great artists were they were? But where

741
00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:22,640
Speaker 1: were you? Because in my mind then you must have

742
00:52:22,680 --> 00:52:24,799
Speaker 1: went through some type of style evolution, like where were

743
00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:28,160
Speaker 1: you style wise at that time in the eighties rocking

744
00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:32,239
Speaker 1: parties in the jungle? Um, I was just kind of

745
00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:37,040
Speaker 1: clean cut, you know, bin Hills looking. You know, that's

746
00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:39,800
Speaker 1: what does that even look like that? You know? But

747
00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:43,600
Speaker 1: wait because that leads to my next question. Was that

748
00:52:43,719 --> 00:52:46,600
Speaker 1: Herb Albert gig real? Or was that just just for soul?

749
00:52:46,840 --> 00:52:50,640
Speaker 1: The thing sultry? That was just for soul? Trying? Because

750
00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:56,480
Speaker 1: I was making my demos in studios C, A and M.

751
00:52:57,120 --> 00:52:59,040
Speaker 1: The room in the front right and on the left right,

752
00:52:59,440 --> 00:53:06,640
Speaker 1: um Mitchell, is that the blue room? Sound road call?

753
00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:17,439
Speaker 1: All right? It was like michell, you sound you sound

754
00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:20,000
Speaker 1: like you sound like you sound like? Said McCoy right now.

755
00:53:21,200 --> 00:53:24,440
Speaker 1: Um So I was making my demos there and I

756
00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:28,040
Speaker 1: got to know everybody on the lot and then you

757
00:53:28,120 --> 00:53:33,480
Speaker 1: know they out he did ask okay, now I'm not

758
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:38,200
Speaker 1: is the blue room? I was like, what is it? Then?

759
00:53:38,239 --> 00:53:40,120
Speaker 1: You know on the left on the left it's a

760
00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:43,200
Speaker 1: small room and had a little with Api or something.

761
00:53:43,239 --> 00:53:45,160
Speaker 1: At the time, I can't remember. That's important to note

762
00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:48,600
Speaker 1: that you actually recorded at the So I was doing

763
00:53:48,640 --> 00:53:53,600
Speaker 1: my demos there. That's the Romeo blue face, and I

764
00:53:53,719 --> 00:53:56,680
Speaker 1: know everybody on the lot, and then her that's why

765
00:53:56,680 --> 00:53:59,160
Speaker 1: I met Gerald everybody, and then Herb was like, oh, yeah,

766
00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:00,960
Speaker 1: we're doing soul training. Don't think you're not going to

767
00:54:01,040 --> 00:54:05,440
Speaker 1: get past explaining Romeo. Can you play keytar for me?

768
00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:09,520
Speaker 1: And so I did that show. Yeah, that was it,

769
00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:12,160
Speaker 1: no tour, that was that was the greatest moment in

770
00:54:12,239 --> 00:54:23,439
Speaker 1: my life. Yeah, it's like something wait but okay, so right, yeah,

771
00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:26,800
Speaker 1: I knew you would. So on my birthday when I

772
00:54:26,920 --> 00:54:30,200
Speaker 1: hopped on a plane just to have lunch at Gero's restaurant.

773
00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:33,080
Speaker 1: Remember talking to you about that, all right, So the

774
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:35,239
Speaker 1: thing was they were like, okay, we can take you,

775
00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:37,800
Speaker 1: but you're gonna have to be here at eleven in

776
00:54:37,840 --> 00:54:41,640
Speaker 1: the morning, which is like required some action going on

777
00:54:42,160 --> 00:54:45,759
Speaker 1: for this nineteen hour trip. So I land there and

778
00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:47,600
Speaker 1: of course, like I'm still crazy out of my mind

779
00:54:47,640 --> 00:54:50,239
Speaker 1: after having been up for like twenty hours straight. But

780
00:54:51,080 --> 00:54:52,799
Speaker 1: this is a once in a lifetime mill so I'm

781
00:54:52,840 --> 00:54:55,440
Speaker 1: like trying to keep myself up and whatnot. Because I

782
00:54:55,520 --> 00:54:56,719
Speaker 1: was like, all right, I know what to do. I

783
00:54:56,960 --> 00:54:59,440
Speaker 1: watch Sultry. I've watched three episodes and then we'll go

784
00:54:59,520 --> 00:55:03,280
Speaker 1: get my food. In the first episode, I watched outside

785
00:55:03,320 --> 00:55:05,040
Speaker 1: to watch some episodes I've never watched before, and I

786
00:55:05,120 --> 00:55:12,120
Speaker 1: was like, I heard bald stuff right, And this is

787
00:55:12,160 --> 00:55:18,319
Speaker 1: a ridiculous story. Imagine, imagine, I think only is going

788
00:55:18,360 --> 00:55:21,520
Speaker 1: to get this reference. But you remember in the five

789
00:55:21,680 --> 00:55:24,560
Speaker 1: Art Beats when they went through their electric phase and

790
00:55:24,760 --> 00:55:33,560
Speaker 1: Robert I'm sorry forgive me, yes, but Lenny was rocking

791
00:55:33,640 --> 00:55:38,759
Speaker 1: his guitar on that level the eighties long Coats, and

792
00:55:39,880 --> 00:55:42,680
Speaker 1: he was killing it. And then I don't think I

793
00:55:42,760 --> 00:55:44,880
Speaker 1: think I'm the only one who supposed it online. So

794
00:55:45,800 --> 00:55:50,319
Speaker 1: then and then Don comes out to the Romeo Blue.

795
00:55:50,800 --> 00:55:56,040
Speaker 1: I was like, I found I found it, so okay,

796
00:55:56,080 --> 00:55:59,160
Speaker 1: you just did it as a favorite. Just yeah, I

797
00:55:59,280 --> 00:56:02,160
Speaker 1: got the pit I see. So wait a minute, why

798
00:56:02,560 --> 00:56:07,600
Speaker 1: didn't you sign Okay, so I assume that I was

799
00:56:07,640 --> 00:56:10,440
Speaker 1: making demos, but if you signed with Gerald Busby, they

800
00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:15,120
Speaker 1: didn't get anything of what I was doing. So even

801
00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:17,080
Speaker 1: back then, you were trying to sell us on the

802
00:56:17,200 --> 00:56:21,560
Speaker 1: vibe you are that, And I passed up about five

803
00:56:21,600 --> 00:56:24,359
Speaker 1: record deals. Gerald tried to give me a deal. Um,

804
00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:27,640
Speaker 1: then I R S Records was on the same lot.

805
00:56:28,160 --> 00:56:31,279
Speaker 1: So that's Miles Copeland, Stuart Copeland's brother who was running that.

806
00:56:32,600 --> 00:56:35,400
Speaker 1: They wanted to hook me up with this producer, Martin Russian,

807
00:56:35,480 --> 00:56:38,200
Speaker 1: who had produced The Go Goes. I didn't want to

808
00:56:38,239 --> 00:56:41,160
Speaker 1: do that and I wanted to keep my publishing, and

809
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:45,880
Speaker 1: so that didn't happen. Then John McClean came to A

810
00:56:45,920 --> 00:56:50,200
Speaker 1: and M and completely revamped A and M with Janet

811
00:56:50,280 --> 00:56:54,680
Speaker 1: and put her with Jimmy and Terry and all that history. Um,

812
00:56:54,920 --> 00:56:58,080
Speaker 1: did you know John McClean personally or we're still friends.

813
00:56:58,160 --> 00:56:59,360
Speaker 1: We'll come back to that. We'll come back to that.

814
00:57:00,280 --> 00:57:03,719
Speaker 1: I'm making a note. Okay, good, Okay, No, we got

815
00:57:04,080 --> 00:57:07,080
Speaker 1: Si McClean questions. Okay, he's hard to nail down. So yeah,

816
00:57:07,120 --> 00:57:11,239
Speaker 1: he's he's he's uh, he's that cat. He's mysterious but

817
00:57:12,120 --> 00:57:14,640
Speaker 1: very very interesting cat and a good friend for a

818
00:57:14,719 --> 00:57:18,320
Speaker 1: long time. But he offered me a deal, not only solo,

819
00:57:18,360 --> 00:57:20,160
Speaker 1: but he offered me a deal with a bunch of

820
00:57:20,240 --> 00:57:25,880
Speaker 1: other guys, one of them being Tony Lamon's He wasn't

821
00:57:25,920 --> 00:57:30,800
Speaker 1: he Tony? You know about Tony? Right? So Tony before

822
00:57:30,880 --> 00:57:33,840
Speaker 1: Prince Okay, Tony and I went to junior high school together.

823
00:57:33,920 --> 00:57:37,800
Speaker 1: His name was Tony Fortier and he played french horn

824
00:57:38,080 --> 00:57:41,960
Speaker 1: in the orchestra that I played percussion. And later he

825
00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:45,040
Speaker 1: had come to a Wave concert and I hadn't seen

826
00:57:45,120 --> 00:57:46,760
Speaker 1: him in a few years. And then he started hanging

827
00:57:46,800 --> 00:57:50,960
Speaker 1: out and we started making music together. And he was

828
00:57:51,040 --> 00:57:54,920
Speaker 1: kind of on this like Slide meets the Beatles kind

829
00:57:54,920 --> 00:57:58,080
Speaker 1: of thing. It was funky, and I was playing most

830
00:57:58,120 --> 00:57:59,880
Speaker 1: of his instruments. Were a lot of his instruments on

831
00:58:00,360 --> 00:58:05,280
Speaker 1: certain tracks, making demos um and then and it was

832
00:58:05,560 --> 00:58:08,280
Speaker 1: it was it was like where I went with Let

833
00:58:08,360 --> 00:58:11,040
Speaker 1: Love Rule, but it was it was more on the

834
00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:16,520
Speaker 1: funk side, but it was that raw. And then I

835
00:58:16,680 --> 00:58:19,000
Speaker 1: was Then then we did a gig. We did a

836
00:58:19,080 --> 00:58:24,880
Speaker 1: gig that Sheila. I guess Prince sent Sheila to come

837
00:58:24,960 --> 00:58:27,760
Speaker 1: to the gig. She saw this gig. We used to

838
00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:33,280
Speaker 1: call those gigs in like a rehearsal showcase. Yeah, we

839
00:58:33,400 --> 00:58:37,800
Speaker 1: did the showcase. She was there. This was somewhere in

840
00:58:37,840 --> 00:58:39,920
Speaker 1: the valley. I was, yeah, I guess you was scouting

841
00:58:39,960 --> 00:58:43,520
Speaker 1: for that. I was playing bass. And then they ended

842
00:58:43,600 --> 00:58:48,240
Speaker 1: up signing Tony Um. I went my own way to

843
00:58:48,320 --> 00:58:51,640
Speaker 1: go do my stuff. But what Prince did was which

844
00:58:51,680 --> 00:58:56,040
Speaker 1: I thought was a mistake. Um is he and nothing

845
00:58:56,080 --> 00:58:59,240
Speaker 1: against this producer because I love scritty polity record, but

846
00:58:59,280 --> 00:59:03,439
Speaker 1: he put him with David Gamson. But but Tony was raw.

847
00:59:03,600 --> 00:59:06,320
Speaker 1: If I played you these demos, they were they were

848
00:59:06,560 --> 00:59:09,400
Speaker 1: as nasty as slide. I mean they were nasty, nasty

849
00:59:09,480 --> 00:59:13,720
Speaker 1: funk with all these harmonies and beetle kind of influence

850
00:59:13,800 --> 00:59:17,240
Speaker 1: and and um, I thought that the record was way

851
00:59:17,320 --> 00:59:21,200
Speaker 1: too slick. And remember Tony telling me that Prince said

852
00:59:21,240 --> 00:59:23,479
Speaker 1: that they didn't sound like records to him. He wanted

853
00:59:23,520 --> 00:59:25,520
Speaker 1: them to be more polished. But I thought it was

854
00:59:25,520 --> 00:59:28,080
Speaker 1: a mistake because Tony's whole thing was the rawness was

855
00:59:28,720 --> 00:59:31,440
Speaker 1: a big part part of his thing. That's like if

856
00:59:31,440 --> 00:59:33,560
Speaker 1: you took me let love Rural time and said, Okay,

857
00:59:33,600 --> 00:59:38,439
Speaker 1: that's great, but we're gonna have honey, who I love,

858
00:59:38,720 --> 00:59:41,400
Speaker 1: who I love? You know, Um, but you know what

859
00:59:41,440 --> 00:59:43,880
Speaker 1: I'm saying, Like great on the on the Seal records,

860
00:59:43,880 --> 00:59:48,840
Speaker 1: it's great on yes, and Trevor Horne, not for you,

861
00:59:50,360 --> 00:59:51,920
Speaker 1: you know, you know what I'm saying. So I mean

862
00:59:51,960 --> 00:59:56,080
Speaker 1: it's a different thing. So what we're talking about Tony anyway,

863
00:59:56,400 --> 01:00:02,600
Speaker 1: U where were we? No, Tony, the record was too polished. Yeah,

864
01:00:02,640 --> 01:00:05,880
Speaker 1: but before that, why do we why we were YouTube connected?

865
01:00:05,920 --> 01:00:08,720
Speaker 1: I was asking about John McLean so one of the

866
01:00:08,760 --> 01:00:11,000
Speaker 1: groups groups that they were trying to do like a

867
01:00:11,080 --> 01:00:17,520
Speaker 1: black like like Duran Duran, right, And that was John's

868
01:00:17,600 --> 01:00:21,640
Speaker 1: thing at the time. It was me, Tony uh and

869
01:00:21,800 --> 01:00:26,200
Speaker 1: like three other guys and and they were throwing the

870
01:00:26,280 --> 01:00:28,000
Speaker 1: thing in, Man, you guys are gonna be big. We're

871
01:00:28,000 --> 01:00:30,600
Speaker 1: gonna send you to SOT the France and record and

872
01:00:30,680 --> 01:00:32,919
Speaker 1: do this and do that, and the money and the deal,

873
01:00:32,960 --> 01:00:38,120
Speaker 1: and I I turned it down. Wise, I have a

874
01:00:38,240 --> 01:00:40,520
Speaker 1: quick question about this period. There's a rumor that I've

875
01:00:40,560 --> 01:00:44,120
Speaker 1: been hearing for years that, um, there was supposed to

876
01:00:44,120 --> 01:00:49,760
Speaker 1: be a movie starring you, Tony, you, Tony, Mickey Free

877
01:00:50,720 --> 01:00:54,520
Speaker 1: and somebody else as a band against the Maserati people

878
01:00:55,040 --> 01:00:58,280
Speaker 1: that Prince was ready. I didn't know about that. Maybe

879
01:00:58,320 --> 01:01:00,440
Speaker 1: maybe they always it was supposed. I think it was

880
01:01:00,440 --> 01:01:03,240
Speaker 1: supposed to be the Dawn movie. Yeah, I didn't know.

881
01:01:03,480 --> 01:01:04,720
Speaker 1: And I think you guys were supposed to play the

882
01:01:04,760 --> 01:01:07,560
Speaker 1: Coco Boys character. Wow. I didn't know the Poco Boys band.

883
01:01:07,600 --> 01:01:09,920
Speaker 1: And it was going to be that you guys against Maseratio,

884
01:01:10,360 --> 01:01:12,760
Speaker 1: So I don't know that that might have been something

885
01:01:12,800 --> 01:01:15,280
Speaker 1: that they were talking about. And then, of course, tragically

886
01:01:15,360 --> 01:01:20,560
Speaker 1: Tony died. He died in a car accident. Is Tony,

887
01:01:20,840 --> 01:01:25,520
Speaker 1: Is that how you met Ingrid Chops? Because they were dating.

888
01:01:25,680 --> 01:01:27,720
Speaker 1: They were dating at one point where they because I

889
01:01:27,800 --> 01:01:29,600
Speaker 1: heard that Tony and Prince had a falling out because

890
01:01:29,840 --> 01:01:33,240
Speaker 1: over her. Yeah, yeah, I don't want to speak for her,

891
01:01:33,320 --> 01:01:36,800
Speaker 1: but yeah, um, we met and she she came to

892
01:01:36,880 --> 01:01:40,000
Speaker 1: some of my early gigs, but I don't remember the

893
01:01:40,120 --> 01:01:41,680
Speaker 1: day I met her with Was that a gig or

894
01:01:41,800 --> 01:01:43,440
Speaker 1: was that I don't I'm not sure if it was

895
01:01:43,520 --> 01:01:47,800
Speaker 1: through Tony or just her coming to a gig. Um. Yeah,

896
01:01:57,560 --> 01:02:00,959
Speaker 1: why did you choose Romeo Blue? Um? That's the title?

897
01:02:01,000 --> 01:02:04,520
Speaker 1: Because I didn't know that. I thought Lenny Lenny Kravitz.

898
01:02:05,440 --> 01:02:08,320
Speaker 1: It sounds like a rock star, like this motherfucker. It

899
01:02:08,400 --> 01:02:11,680
Speaker 1: sounds like a doctor on Fifth Avenue or a lawyer

900
01:02:11,800 --> 01:02:14,720
Speaker 1: like I was wrong with that nothing. But at that time,

901
01:02:14,800 --> 01:02:17,760
Speaker 1: you know, you got prints and this one and Madonna,

902
01:02:17,920 --> 01:02:25,400
Speaker 1: and I was like Lenny Kravitz whenever. First, because there

903
01:02:25,480 --> 01:02:27,960
Speaker 1: was a few times where I heard the name Romeo blue,

904
01:02:28,040 --> 01:02:29,680
Speaker 1: and but I didn't give it. I didn't get Romeo

905
01:02:29,760 --> 01:02:32,720
Speaker 1: to myself. It was these dudes that I was hanging

906
01:02:32,720 --> 01:02:36,040
Speaker 1: out with. Um they did in the hood somewhere I

907
01:02:36,160 --> 01:02:39,600
Speaker 1: forget it, and they used to call me Romeo. And

908
01:02:41,360 --> 01:02:44,400
Speaker 1: I guess at that time I was talking to some girls. Yeah,

909
01:02:45,280 --> 01:02:48,520
Speaker 1: just the name they rove me a blue just sounds

910
01:02:48,600 --> 01:02:52,080
Speaker 1: like I might could steal your girl. And then like

911
01:02:52,160 --> 01:02:54,120
Speaker 1: I was like, you're not trying to have any male fans,

912
01:02:54,280 --> 01:02:56,920
Speaker 1: like with the name Romeo. And then I, um, who

913
01:02:57,000 --> 01:02:58,920
Speaker 1: talked you? Who talked to you? Out of it? Just

914
01:02:59,000 --> 01:03:02,080
Speaker 1: to be in the Lenny Kravitz, I knew it was corny.

915
01:03:02,320 --> 01:03:05,360
Speaker 1: I was just like, this is not me, okay, I

916
01:03:05,480 --> 01:03:08,600
Speaker 1: want to I want to be me like it. It

917
01:03:08,960 --> 01:03:12,880
Speaker 1: brought me back around to myself like playing this character. Yeah,

918
01:03:13,600 --> 01:03:16,920
Speaker 1: how long were you? Because I had like the spiked

919
01:03:16,960 --> 01:03:20,280
Speaker 1: hair and the clothes and blue contact lenses, like I

920
01:03:20,400 --> 01:03:24,840
Speaker 1: was doing this bow and this was this was before

921
01:03:25,560 --> 01:03:29,640
Speaker 1: there were those Now we have those soft contact lenses these.

922
01:03:30,600 --> 01:03:35,200
Speaker 1: I wanted these blue eyes, right, So my lawyer turned

923
01:03:35,280 --> 01:03:39,200
Speaker 1: me on to this special effects guy who made the

924
01:03:39,440 --> 01:03:44,520
Speaker 1: contact lenses for The Incredible Hulk for luf ridden contact.

925
01:03:45,160 --> 01:03:52,360
Speaker 1: These these contacts, these contact lenses were like bottle caps.

926
01:03:52,480 --> 01:03:55,800
Speaker 1: They were hard, and I'd go out, I'd just be

927
01:03:55,920 --> 01:04:01,720
Speaker 1: like blinking, and you know, it was ridiculous, man, but

928
01:04:01,840 --> 01:04:12,760
Speaker 1: I was but I was committed context. It was bad, man,

929
01:04:12,960 --> 01:04:15,560
Speaker 1: it was bad. It was bad. And then I just like,

930
01:04:15,720 --> 01:04:19,200
Speaker 1: you know what, I'm just gonna be n graphics man,

931
01:04:19,800 --> 01:04:23,400
Speaker 1: That's it. And then, uh so I was doing this

932
01:04:23,400 --> 01:04:27,720
Speaker 1: stuff with Tony Um and there was another band that

933
01:04:27,840 --> 01:04:30,920
Speaker 1: I was singing. I sang their demos. It was a

934
01:04:30,960 --> 01:04:34,440
Speaker 1: band called Maggie's Dream that was here in New York City,

935
01:04:35,160 --> 01:04:38,440
Speaker 1: and I was singing their demos. I was doing Tony stuff.

936
01:04:39,280 --> 01:04:40,720
Speaker 1: But all in a while I was trying to figure

937
01:04:40,720 --> 01:04:45,760
Speaker 1: out who I was. And then I met Lisa at

938
01:04:45,760 --> 01:04:49,880
Speaker 1: the New Edition concert. We then became friends for like

939
01:04:50,000 --> 01:04:52,640
Speaker 1: a year or so and then ended up being like

940
01:04:52,760 --> 01:04:56,920
Speaker 1: brother and sister. Actually the relationships turned out like that. Constantly.

941
01:04:57,080 --> 01:05:00,520
Speaker 1: We were She had boyfriends, I had girlfriends that there

942
01:05:00,600 --> 01:05:06,240
Speaker 1: wasn't like a slot, there was nothing happening. My bench

943
01:05:06,320 --> 01:05:10,400
Speaker 1: is fool right now, like in the contract, We'll see

944
01:05:10,440 --> 01:05:14,560
Speaker 1: what's up, you know what I mean? So you see

945
01:05:14,640 --> 01:05:16,880
Speaker 1: me on the off season. I got my start in

946
01:05:16,920 --> 01:05:22,320
Speaker 1: five already. So she's doing Cosby out in l A

947
01:05:22,440 --> 01:05:26,640
Speaker 1: now at Universal Studios. Same actually same actual studio as

948
01:05:26,640 --> 01:05:30,080
Speaker 1: the Jeffersons, which was interesting. So so you grew up

949
01:05:30,160 --> 01:05:34,720
Speaker 1: on the Yeah, on the set, I mean of the Jeffersons. Well,

950
01:05:34,800 --> 01:05:38,240
Speaker 1: I mean you wait, well know when I when after

951
01:05:38,400 --> 01:05:40,720
Speaker 1: Lisa and I met and became friends, and then I

952
01:05:41,520 --> 01:05:42,840
Speaker 1: I was I was going back and forth between New

953
01:05:42,920 --> 01:05:44,200
Speaker 1: York and l A. Then I came back out to

954
01:05:44,320 --> 01:05:46,920
Speaker 1: l A. At some period she said, asked me to

955
01:05:47,000 --> 01:05:50,520
Speaker 1: come to the studio, went to Universal, the same studio,

956
01:05:50,720 --> 01:05:54,640
Speaker 1: same building is my where my mom films, and we're

957
01:05:54,720 --> 01:05:59,959
Speaker 1: hanging out. She had this mustang like we're in the series.

958
01:06:00,040 --> 01:06:04,440
Speaker 1: It's must stay in convertible sixties. It was beautiful car. Anyway,

959
01:06:05,080 --> 01:06:06,919
Speaker 1: She would let me use her car in the day

960
01:06:07,600 --> 01:06:09,640
Speaker 1: while she was rehearsing and filming, so I could go

961
01:06:09,760 --> 01:06:12,160
Speaker 1: right and do my music and do whatever hustle and

962
01:06:12,240 --> 01:06:15,320
Speaker 1: I was doing, and then I would pick her up

963
01:06:16,040 --> 01:06:18,160
Speaker 1: at work. She lived in Venice at the time. Then

964
01:06:18,160 --> 01:06:20,280
Speaker 1: you gotta drive all the way from studios of the city,

965
01:06:20,960 --> 01:06:23,720
Speaker 1: all the lay at Venice, and then I would find

966
01:06:23,760 --> 01:06:26,200
Speaker 1: my way wherever I was going Eventually she's like, why

967
01:06:26,200 --> 01:06:29,640
Speaker 1: don't you just start staying over? Like just stay over,

968
01:06:29,760 --> 01:06:36,640
Speaker 1: Like here's a room, there's a rolling Stone interview. No,

969
01:06:36,840 --> 01:06:41,800
Speaker 1: it's it's in the interview interview where she's talking about

970
01:06:41,960 --> 01:06:47,880
Speaker 1: her brother Romeo A. Seriously, it exists somewhere. I've seen it. Well,

971
01:06:47,920 --> 01:06:51,400
Speaker 1: at some point you stuck in the room. Well what

972
01:06:51,560 --> 01:07:00,200
Speaker 1: had happened when? Anyway, so you know you understand my way.

973
01:07:00,200 --> 01:07:02,280
Speaker 1: We ended up. So then I would get up in

974
01:07:02,320 --> 01:07:04,800
Speaker 1: the morning, drive her to Burbanks and I would go

975
01:07:04,880 --> 01:07:07,400
Speaker 1: do my thing, pick her up. This went on for months,

976
01:07:08,040 --> 01:07:11,560
Speaker 1: and then we grew close and what do we do? Then?

977
01:07:11,840 --> 01:07:15,320
Speaker 1: You know, we fell in love and in the whole

978
01:07:15,320 --> 01:07:17,040
Speaker 1: world fell in love with you, and everybody wanted to

979
01:07:19,640 --> 01:07:24,400
Speaker 1: So is the Love Rule album about her? That whole

980
01:07:24,440 --> 01:07:28,040
Speaker 1: thing was both of us. That was really like where

981
01:07:28,120 --> 01:07:31,560
Speaker 1: we were, you know. And so in doing all that

982
01:07:31,600 --> 01:07:34,800
Speaker 1: stuff with Tony Lman's and the other group, and and

983
01:07:34,880 --> 01:07:36,800
Speaker 1: I'm turning down all these deals and I didn't go

984
01:07:36,880 --> 01:07:38,800
Speaker 1: with Tony, I didn't go with John McClain, I didn't

985
01:07:38,800 --> 01:07:41,600
Speaker 1: go with Joe Busby. I didn't go with Benny Medina.

986
01:07:41,720 --> 01:07:47,960
Speaker 1: He actually Benny offered Tony and Tony and I had

987
01:07:48,000 --> 01:07:51,960
Speaker 1: a development deal and Warner Brothers. They moved us into

988
01:07:52,000 --> 01:07:58,240
Speaker 1: the oak Wood UH apartments in Burbank, and at the

989
01:07:58,320 --> 01:08:00,960
Speaker 1: time Slide was living there too, George Clinton was there.

990
01:08:04,120 --> 01:08:08,160
Speaker 1: It was it was nasty, literally nasty. It was nasty.

991
01:08:08,680 --> 01:08:13,280
Speaker 1: And so then Lisa and I are, you know, getting close,

992
01:08:13,360 --> 01:08:15,400
Speaker 1: and we're living our life and we have we have

993
01:08:15,520 --> 01:08:19,439
Speaker 1: this whole like hippie lifestyle and all this love and

994
01:08:20,000 --> 01:08:24,080
Speaker 1: these ideals and everything, and upart moving into her house.

995
01:08:25,240 --> 01:08:27,920
Speaker 1: She's like, yeah, bring your gear. I brought my stuff.

996
01:08:28,080 --> 01:08:31,200
Speaker 1: Keep friend of Rhodes. I brought my guitars myself. I

997
01:08:31,280 --> 01:08:34,679
Speaker 1: started writing the album. That's how it started, right there,

998
01:08:35,520 --> 01:08:37,760
Speaker 1: Venice in her house. And this is before you even

999
01:08:37,800 --> 01:08:39,840
Speaker 1: had a deal, before you signed with I had no deal.

1000
01:08:39,920 --> 01:08:41,599
Speaker 1: I made the record. I had no deal. The record

1001
01:08:41,680 --> 01:08:45,080
Speaker 1: was done, I had no deal. Yeah, when was it finished?

1002
01:08:45,920 --> 01:08:48,240
Speaker 1: And well, it came out in eighty nine, so it

1003
01:08:48,320 --> 01:08:51,599
Speaker 1: was done in eight. Yeah, And then I was taking

1004
01:08:51,640 --> 01:08:54,120
Speaker 1: it around everywhere and people were just like, we don't

1005
01:08:54,120 --> 01:08:56,280
Speaker 1: know what to do with this. Okay, you gotta tell Okay,

1006
01:08:56,400 --> 01:09:01,840
Speaker 1: there's one story that I'm envious about as far as

1007
01:09:02,080 --> 01:09:06,160
Speaker 1: your daughter is concerned. Uh Hank and Chuck told me

1008
01:09:06,240 --> 01:09:12,160
Speaker 1: the story that she your Zoe was the fifth person

1009
01:09:13,479 --> 01:09:19,280
Speaker 1: to hear Mason of Millions, because I guess at some

1010
01:09:19,560 --> 01:09:22,680
Speaker 1: time point, I don't know if they were mastering the

1011
01:09:22,800 --> 01:09:25,320
Speaker 1: record there and you guys were next door, or you

1012
01:09:25,439 --> 01:09:27,880
Speaker 1: were mastering your record there and they were next door,

1013
01:09:28,200 --> 01:09:32,559
Speaker 1: whatever the case, but they explained to me that, um,

1014
01:09:34,200 --> 01:09:37,719
Speaker 1: after being guarded about letting the outside world hearing anything

1015
01:09:37,840 --> 01:09:41,720
Speaker 1: from it takes a nation of millions, that you and

1016
01:09:41,920 --> 01:09:46,479
Speaker 1: pregnant Lisa were the first audience to hear the record

1017
01:09:46,720 --> 01:09:50,840
Speaker 1: right when it was completed, And I was like, wow, man,

1018
01:09:51,040 --> 01:09:56,160
Speaker 1: like fucking Zoe gets to hear this record before. In

1019
01:09:56,280 --> 01:10:02,439
Speaker 1: the reaction in that room, though, I'm I think I

1020
01:10:02,560 --> 01:10:07,439
Speaker 1: think Chuck said that it was when our chaosky one

1021
01:10:07,520 --> 01:10:12,160
Speaker 1: that's like uh, Zoe started kicking uh, at least in

1022
01:10:12,240 --> 01:10:16,960
Speaker 1: the stomach. So the song about Joe break so okay.

1023
01:10:17,640 --> 01:10:24,400
Speaker 1: There there was no UM. I mean, there wasn't an

1024
01:10:24,479 --> 01:10:31,599
Speaker 1: idea of retro. I wasn't thinking any retro had nothing

1025
01:10:31,640 --> 01:10:33,680
Speaker 1: to do with it. I wanted I wanted to make

1026
01:10:33,760 --> 01:10:37,000
Speaker 1: records that sounded like the records that I loved, and

1027
01:10:37,320 --> 01:10:39,880
Speaker 1: I get that you weren't intentionally. And I remember the

1028
01:10:39,960 --> 01:10:41,800
Speaker 1: first thing I said when I called my engineer in

1029
01:10:42,080 --> 01:10:44,200
Speaker 1: New York who I was working with, I was like,

1030
01:10:44,520 --> 01:10:48,400
Speaker 1: I wanted to sound I said, carpet E. I wanted

1031
01:10:48,479 --> 01:10:51,160
Speaker 1: to sound like like how it sounds like us sitting

1032
01:10:51,240 --> 01:10:53,600
Speaker 1: right here with these carpets in this room with I

1033
01:10:53,680 --> 01:10:56,720
Speaker 1: wanted to feel organic. I wanted to hear the room.

1034
01:10:56,800 --> 01:11:01,200
Speaker 1: I wanted to feel the plushness of the sound. And um,

1035
01:11:02,400 --> 01:11:07,639
Speaker 1: well very much wanted that sort of innervision sonics different

1036
01:11:07,720 --> 01:11:11,160
Speaker 1: music that I played obviously and so but that was

1037
01:11:11,280 --> 01:11:13,160
Speaker 1: like where I was coming from. I wanted it to

1038
01:11:13,240 --> 01:11:15,800
Speaker 1: be intimate in your face, and I wanted you to

1039
01:11:15,960 --> 01:11:19,880
Speaker 1: hear my hands playing the instruments, you know, but not

1040
01:11:20,120 --> 01:11:24,160
Speaker 1: that Okay, at least in eighty nine, Like there wasn't

1041
01:11:24,400 --> 01:11:27,479
Speaker 1: uh to technology or anything like that. But the thing

1042
01:11:27,640 --> 01:11:32,080
Speaker 1: is that even today, if I wanted to make something

1043
01:11:32,200 --> 01:11:38,439
Speaker 1: that sonically uh close to quote the stuff that we

1044
01:11:38,560 --> 01:11:41,800
Speaker 1: grew up on, um, it would cost me more. Like

1045
01:11:41,880 --> 01:11:44,760
Speaker 1: it wasn't something that could be easily done. It takes time,

1046
01:11:44,880 --> 01:11:48,200
Speaker 1: It takes technique, It takes having the right gear, having

1047
01:11:48,240 --> 01:11:50,080
Speaker 1: all that tube equipment and all that, you know what

1048
01:11:50,120 --> 01:11:51,760
Speaker 1: I mean, Like so where did you where did you

1049
01:11:51,920 --> 01:12:01,120
Speaker 1: find the Because you more than God? Okay, I don't

1050
01:12:01,160 --> 01:12:03,479
Speaker 1: want to Anglan no, no, no, I'm just saying you

1051
01:12:03,680 --> 01:12:08,040
Speaker 1: more than Okay. So when daptone does it, they kind

1052
01:12:08,040 --> 01:12:10,320
Speaker 1: of overdo it. I mean with the processing, in the

1053
01:12:10,400 --> 01:12:13,080
Speaker 1: in the in the in, the compression and stuff like.

1054
01:12:13,240 --> 01:12:16,120
Speaker 1: I get what they're going for, but it almost sounds

1055
01:12:16,160 --> 01:12:21,880
Speaker 1: like too overdone, whereas your stuff sounds supernatural al right, like, uh,

1056
01:12:23,520 --> 01:12:25,439
Speaker 1: the first song sitting on top of the world, right,

1057
01:12:26,280 --> 01:12:33,400
Speaker 1: So but how are you able to mixing wise? Achieve

1058
01:12:33,800 --> 01:12:37,639
Speaker 1: achieve that? Because when people go on natural, especially starting

1059
01:12:37,680 --> 01:12:42,800
Speaker 1: in this ship, sounds like Kenny g or No, there

1060
01:12:42,920 --> 01:12:44,800
Speaker 1: was nothing. It sounds like that. You know, use these

1061
01:12:45,360 --> 01:12:48,519
Speaker 1: these tama you know these Tama drunks. I mean, was

1062
01:12:49,479 --> 01:12:52,720
Speaker 1: you You did all the instruments on your and your

1063
01:12:52,720 --> 01:12:56,200
Speaker 1: first records. Well, also, my engineer Henry Hurst played the

1064
01:12:56,280 --> 01:12:59,240
Speaker 1: Hammond on some of the song's brilliant performances and played

1065
01:12:59,280 --> 01:13:03,439
Speaker 1: like a base on a tracker or two. So what

1066
01:13:03,479 --> 01:13:08,000
Speaker 1: the instruments were you using? I had I I had

1067
01:13:08,040 --> 01:13:15,400
Speaker 1: a a Fender Deluxe tweet Amp. I had a epifone Sorrento,

1068
01:13:16,040 --> 01:13:20,400
Speaker 1: I had a telecaster I had a set of Gretch drums.

1069
01:13:21,120 --> 01:13:25,880
Speaker 1: I had a Fender base, an app that was it

1070
01:13:27,040 --> 01:13:31,160
Speaker 1: and his and and this studio. How do you know

1071
01:13:31,200 --> 01:13:32,760
Speaker 1: how to make the stuff with that I had? I

1072
01:13:32,840 --> 01:13:35,360
Speaker 1: had a brilliant engineer, first of all, a guy by

1073
01:13:35,400 --> 01:13:37,680
Speaker 1: the name of Henry Hirsch who had a studio in

1074
01:13:37,760 --> 01:13:41,920
Speaker 1: Jersey and Hoboken called Waterfront. And he was brilliant. And

1075
01:13:42,040 --> 01:13:44,639
Speaker 1: he and I when I was making demos with another band,

1076
01:13:44,720 --> 01:13:47,560
Speaker 1: that band, I was talking about Maggie's dream Um. We

1077
01:13:47,720 --> 01:13:49,960
Speaker 1: had gone there. It was like thirty dollars an hour.

1078
01:13:50,040 --> 01:13:54,600
Speaker 1: It was something we could afford. And that whole thing

1079
01:13:54,640 --> 01:13:57,320
Speaker 1: didn't work out. But he and I connected, We saw

1080
01:13:57,439 --> 01:14:01,599
Speaker 1: eye to eye talking about music, and then I knew

1081
01:14:01,640 --> 01:14:03,639
Speaker 1: that when I was gonna make my record, I'm gonna

1082
01:14:03,640 --> 01:14:06,280
Speaker 1: call this guy because he gets it. And he had

1083
01:14:06,400 --> 01:14:09,120
Speaker 1: He had a Triumph board. We had We didn't even

1084
01:14:09,200 --> 01:14:11,639
Speaker 1: we had no tari and TRR ninety. It wasn't even

1085
01:14:11,720 --> 01:14:15,680
Speaker 1: like some like crazy student a MTR ninety, which is

1086
01:14:15,680 --> 01:14:18,599
Speaker 1: a great workhorse machine. But we had that he had.

1087
01:14:18,840 --> 01:14:21,000
Speaker 1: We had the proper like we had forty seven tubes

1088
01:14:21,120 --> 01:14:23,439
Speaker 1: and and then we ended up getting a fair Child

1089
01:14:23,479 --> 01:14:26,040
Speaker 1: compressor and we had a couple of politics, but really

1090
01:14:26,080 --> 01:14:29,519
Speaker 1: it wasn't that much. It wasn't that much gear. But

1091
01:14:29,680 --> 01:14:32,880
Speaker 1: this guy was a genius and he taught me so

1092
01:14:33,200 --> 01:14:35,960
Speaker 1: so much. He knew exactly how he did. And we

1093
01:14:36,120 --> 01:14:38,680
Speaker 1: used to just I mean we used to go at it.

1094
01:14:39,240 --> 01:14:43,559
Speaker 1: You know, was it trial and era we'd spent We'd

1095
01:14:43,560 --> 01:14:46,479
Speaker 1: spend days on a drum sound bro. You know, I

1096
01:14:47,880 --> 01:14:50,920
Speaker 1: I too would try to we start fighting. You know,

1097
01:14:51,040 --> 01:14:54,599
Speaker 1: it was crazy. I would try to achieve that and couldn't.

1098
01:14:55,439 --> 01:14:58,880
Speaker 1: I mean, even now, I'll say, like twenty years into

1099
01:14:58,920 --> 01:15:04,720
Speaker 1: my career, I think I'm just finding satisfaction because I

1100
01:15:06,320 --> 01:15:08,599
Speaker 1: but in the age of no pro tools or anything,

1101
01:15:08,640 --> 01:15:12,519
Speaker 1: were you're rewinding tape over and over again, I would

1102
01:15:12,560 --> 01:15:15,439
Speaker 1: have just imagined that we're taking you forever too. And

1103
01:15:15,560 --> 01:15:17,519
Speaker 1: I was overdubbing one instrument on top of the other.

1104
01:15:18,360 --> 01:15:21,400
Speaker 1: It was no band. It was a trip. But um,

1105
01:15:21,800 --> 01:15:26,160
Speaker 1: it's all that stuff, all fears you yeah, freedom train, yea,

1106
01:15:27,000 --> 01:15:36,759
Speaker 1: all that. Yeah? What was that? Yeah, I'm just saying.

1107
01:15:37,360 --> 01:15:40,920
Speaker 1: So he wrote everything and I guess demo stuff at

1108
01:15:41,160 --> 01:15:42,880
Speaker 1: at Leasta's house and then went to and then I

1109
01:15:42,920 --> 01:15:46,919
Speaker 1: went to Waterfront and cut the album. So just completed

1110
01:15:46,960 --> 01:15:50,960
Speaker 1: the album, I've had no deal taking it around. You know,

1111
01:15:51,280 --> 01:15:54,120
Speaker 1: it's still the go to the Black Department, you know,

1112
01:15:55,439 --> 01:15:58,880
Speaker 1: So what was the feedback. The feedback was, we think

1113
01:15:58,920 --> 01:16:01,640
Speaker 1: you're talented, but you you can't do this. You need

1114
01:16:01,720 --> 01:16:05,200
Speaker 1: to do what. I guess whatever was going on in

1115
01:16:05,320 --> 01:16:14,400
Speaker 1: Black ready at that time in eighty eight, say like

1116
01:16:15,520 --> 01:16:19,160
Speaker 1: Riley Virgin was cool, but going around all the other labels,

1117
01:16:19,600 --> 01:16:22,760
Speaker 1: they were just like, we you can't do this. We

1118
01:16:22,840 --> 01:16:24,600
Speaker 1: don't get you can't do this. You gotta do this.

1119
01:16:25,840 --> 01:16:30,240
Speaker 1: And so even with like so who's Terence? Terrence was

1120
01:16:30,320 --> 01:16:36,439
Speaker 1: hitting in there, So even with that, he was arrival.

1121
01:16:37,040 --> 01:16:42,880
Speaker 1: But it was as different as he was. I still

1122
01:16:42,920 --> 01:16:46,639
Speaker 1: had all those guitars and all that Terence and stuff

1123
01:16:46,680 --> 01:16:50,040
Speaker 1: was way more R and B and sane. Prince was

1124
01:16:50,160 --> 01:16:54,720
Speaker 1: still envy was always his own thing, and I was

1125
01:16:54,800 --> 01:16:58,080
Speaker 1: coming upright. I built this garden for us and freedom.

1126
01:16:58,120 --> 01:16:59,640
Speaker 1: You know. It's like it's no one you see that

1127
01:17:00,080 --> 01:17:03,400
Speaker 1: couldn't get half. They couldn't see it. So then I

1128
01:17:03,479 --> 01:17:06,840
Speaker 1: went to I had I was granted a five minute

1129
01:17:06,880 --> 01:17:10,719
Speaker 1: meeting at Virgin in l A with this lady God

1130
01:17:10,760 --> 01:17:17,600
Speaker 1: bless her, Nancy jeffries Um. You know yeah, she was,

1131
01:17:19,120 --> 01:17:22,720
Speaker 1: I knew this guy who was managing me, and she said,

1132
01:17:22,800 --> 01:17:24,640
Speaker 1: you got five minutes. Because she used to get on

1133
01:17:24,720 --> 01:17:27,400
Speaker 1: the plane every Friday to fly back to New York

1134
01:17:27,880 --> 01:17:30,800
Speaker 1: because her husband lived in New York and she spent

1135
01:17:30,880 --> 01:17:32,439
Speaker 1: the weekends in New York in the week in l A.

1136
01:17:33,360 --> 01:17:36,920
Speaker 1: Her husband worked with Philip Glass. He did so produced

1137
01:17:36,960 --> 01:17:39,960
Speaker 1: engineers anyway, they worked together. So she goes, you got

1138
01:17:40,040 --> 01:17:45,160
Speaker 1: five minutes. I put on let Love Rule, and she said,

1139
01:17:45,320 --> 01:17:47,200
Speaker 1: wait a minute, and then she went and got Jeff

1140
01:17:47,200 --> 01:17:50,719
Speaker 1: eare Off played le Rois, played another one. I played

1141
01:17:50,760 --> 01:17:55,000
Speaker 1: b and he said hold on. He got his partner,

1142
01:17:55,120 --> 01:17:57,600
Speaker 1: Jordan Harris. The three of them are sitting there and

1143
01:17:57,840 --> 01:18:00,839
Speaker 1: there I'm playing three four different songs. They're writing on pads,

1144
01:18:00,960 --> 01:18:04,680
Speaker 1: passing it around. I'm what's going through. I've been trying

1145
01:18:04,720 --> 01:18:09,679
Speaker 1: to get signed fifteen I'm the original groups. And later

1146
01:18:09,760 --> 01:18:11,920
Speaker 1: I come to find out they had written John Lennon

1147
01:18:11,960 --> 01:18:19,120
Speaker 1: meets Prince And after fifteen minutes, Jeff said, come to

1148
01:18:19,280 --> 01:18:22,200
Speaker 1: my office. And that was it, Like, after all those years,

1149
01:18:22,240 --> 01:18:25,479
Speaker 1: then okay, we're gonna sign you. He's like, I have

1150
01:18:25,600 --> 01:18:28,599
Speaker 1: no idea if we can sell a record. I don't

1151
01:18:28,600 --> 01:18:30,680
Speaker 1: know how to market you. I don't know what to

1152
01:18:30,760 --> 01:18:33,640
Speaker 1: do with you, but we believe in it, and so

1153
01:18:34,640 --> 01:18:38,960
Speaker 1: we'll we'll deal with you. And that was it um

1154
01:18:39,280 --> 01:18:42,560
Speaker 1: for all of for all of the Lennon flak that

1155
01:18:42,720 --> 01:18:47,439
Speaker 1: you've gotten. Can I ask, where does where does Elvis

1156
01:18:47,479 --> 01:18:51,080
Speaker 1: Scots Stello stand in nowhere? When I love us? I

1157
01:18:51,120 --> 01:18:53,639
Speaker 1: love els. When I read that first Rolling Stone review

1158
01:18:54,200 --> 01:18:56,280
Speaker 1: and they said that I sounded like Elvis Carstello, I

1159
01:18:56,320 --> 01:18:58,360
Speaker 1: had no idea. I didn't even know that said that

1160
01:18:58,760 --> 01:19:04,360
Speaker 1: the first because everybody was saying very first uh review

1161
01:19:04,960 --> 01:19:08,920
Speaker 1: in Rolling Stone for that love Rulello was the was

1162
01:19:09,439 --> 01:19:12,320
Speaker 1: was mentioned, But I didn't know. The only Elvis Costello

1163
01:19:12,400 --> 01:19:14,760
Speaker 1: song I knew was uh, every day I write the

1164
01:19:14,760 --> 01:19:18,200
Speaker 1: book or whatever. I don't know if this yeah, which

1165
01:19:18,240 --> 01:19:21,800
Speaker 1: I loved, right, But I didn't understand. I didn't hear

1166
01:19:21,840 --> 01:19:24,960
Speaker 1: the similarity of the tone of voice or anything. So

1167
01:19:25,080 --> 01:19:29,160
Speaker 1: that was just coincidental. I have no idea. Okay, when

1168
01:19:29,400 --> 01:19:31,559
Speaker 1: do you hear it? So no, I didn't know about

1169
01:19:31,560 --> 01:19:34,320
Speaker 1: that Rolling Stone review. But yeah, I always felt that

1170
01:19:34,439 --> 01:19:41,000
Speaker 1: your voice was closer to Elvis's tone, and I thought that, oh, well,

1171
01:19:41,080 --> 01:19:43,920
Speaker 1: maybe you know he was a hero because I thought

1172
01:19:43,960 --> 01:19:47,160
Speaker 1: it was just too and it's easy, little hanging fruit

1173
01:19:47,240 --> 01:19:49,960
Speaker 1: just to say John Lennon. I didn't know where the

1174
01:19:50,040 --> 01:19:55,160
Speaker 1: Lennon thing was coming from, truthfully. When there was a

1175
01:19:55,200 --> 01:19:57,120
Speaker 1: manager who was trying to manage at the time, and

1176
01:19:57,240 --> 01:20:01,000
Speaker 1: he was he had heard the record let LaRue was done,

1177
01:20:01,640 --> 01:20:05,560
Speaker 1: and he said, man, have you you must be a

1178
01:20:05,600 --> 01:20:08,599
Speaker 1: fan of the Plastic on a record And I said,

1179
01:20:09,080 --> 01:20:11,600
Speaker 1: I don't know what you're talking about. He turned me

1180
01:20:11,800 --> 01:20:15,080
Speaker 1: onto the Plastic on the record. I was like, oh wow,

1181
01:20:15,560 --> 01:20:19,120
Speaker 1: like there's some similarities here, like you would never heard it.

1182
01:20:19,240 --> 01:20:21,719
Speaker 1: I had never heard the Plastical. I just knew the Beatles.

1183
01:20:22,520 --> 01:20:25,840
Speaker 1: And then funny enough, when I met Yoko Um. She

1184
01:20:25,920 --> 01:20:29,040
Speaker 1: came to one of my first gigs in Switzerland, UM

1185
01:20:29,160 --> 01:20:33,000
Speaker 1: in Geneva and she's I'm in my dress room. One

1186
01:20:33,040 --> 01:20:34,360
Speaker 1: was banging on the door and like, who is it.

1187
01:20:34,680 --> 01:20:39,880
Speaker 1: It's Yoko Ono. Was like, who's like trying to mess

1188
01:20:39,920 --> 01:20:42,439
Speaker 1: with me? Three? Three or four more knocks. Finally I

1189
01:20:42,520 --> 01:20:45,960
Speaker 1: opened the door. Is Yoko Ono and she's like, I'm

1190
01:20:46,000 --> 01:20:49,080
Speaker 1: a big fan and did da da da? And she

1191
01:20:49,280 --> 01:20:51,400
Speaker 1: said this so I'm not saying anything about it, like

1192
01:20:51,600 --> 01:20:53,920
Speaker 1: it was just super flattering. But she was like the

1193
01:20:54,040 --> 01:20:56,280
Speaker 1: way you sing is the way John wanted to sing.

1194
01:20:57,000 --> 01:21:00,680
Speaker 1: And I was like, wow, that's how I called him. Yeah,

1195
01:21:01,439 --> 01:21:07,080
Speaker 1: well wait, since you mentioned it, uh, what five albums

1196
01:21:07,880 --> 01:21:10,800
Speaker 1: can you before? I just wanted to no, no, no,

1197
01:21:10,880 --> 01:21:14,360
Speaker 1: it hasn't. Um, it's just UM. I think a lot

1198
01:21:14,439 --> 01:21:18,880
Speaker 1: of those comparisons that maybe UM from back then, the

1199
01:21:19,200 --> 01:21:22,080
Speaker 1: Lennon Costello things. UM. I think a lot of that

1200
01:21:22,200 --> 01:21:25,680
Speaker 1: has to do with the making the close miking and

1201
01:21:25,840 --> 01:21:30,280
Speaker 1: that that sounds just that in your face ship with

1202
01:21:30,400 --> 01:21:32,560
Speaker 1: the vocal m and I was screaming and I was

1203
01:21:32,720 --> 01:21:35,679
Speaker 1: raw and totally when I listened when I finally heard

1204
01:21:35,760 --> 01:21:39,600
Speaker 1: Mother and all those songs, I was like, I was

1205
01:21:40,479 --> 01:21:44,840
Speaker 1: those records maybe I found out God all those songs

1206
01:21:44,880 --> 01:21:49,320
Speaker 1: I mean huge. Yeah, so that level was like that

1207
01:21:49,560 --> 01:21:53,040
Speaker 1: in a sense to me when it came out was um.

1208
01:21:53,800 --> 01:21:56,320
Speaker 1: And I read that review and everything, and I'm a

1209
01:21:56,439 --> 01:21:58,840
Speaker 1: huge Costello fan and a huge Lendin fan. But really,

1210
01:21:58,920 --> 01:22:02,000
Speaker 1: I think a lot of the comparisons from from the

1211
01:22:02,800 --> 01:22:06,479
Speaker 1: rawness and the dryness rather than Yeah, at that time,

1212
01:22:06,600 --> 01:22:08,439
Speaker 1: there were no dry records. That's what I'm saying, how

1213
01:22:08,439 --> 01:22:10,800
Speaker 1: did you? Everybody was like whoa, I mean that record

1214
01:22:10,880 --> 01:22:15,639
Speaker 1: was dry? How did you resist, you know, production, well,

1215
01:22:16,240 --> 01:22:18,880
Speaker 1: because I really believed in the way this stuff sounded.

1216
01:22:18,960 --> 01:22:22,920
Speaker 1: It sounded so intimate to me. And when I turned

1217
01:22:22,960 --> 01:22:27,439
Speaker 1: the record in, they were like okay because they heard

1218
01:22:27,520 --> 01:22:29,760
Speaker 1: the record and they signed me. But then I guess

1219
01:22:29,800 --> 01:22:33,479
Speaker 1: they thought they were listening to like Ross. I was like, no,

1220
01:22:33,640 --> 01:22:36,040
Speaker 1: that's it, and they were like, no, no, you gotta

1221
01:22:36,080 --> 01:22:39,400
Speaker 1: get somebody to mix this record. So they called this guy,

1222
01:22:39,920 --> 01:22:46,479
Speaker 1: what's his name? He mixed you too? No, Lily White, No,

1223
01:22:47,000 --> 01:22:52,439
Speaker 1: And we went to Green Street Studios. James m oh god, anyway,

1224
01:22:52,439 --> 01:22:55,880
Speaker 1: I'll get his name. Really nice guy. And then he

1225
01:22:55,920 --> 01:22:58,120
Speaker 1: started taking it and you know, trying to make its

1226
01:22:58,200 --> 01:23:01,840
Speaker 1: liquor and more and hord and then I ended up

1227
01:23:01,880 --> 01:23:03,960
Speaker 1: and then it didn't. I was like, no, do they

1228
01:23:04,040 --> 01:23:07,719
Speaker 1: have those mixes anywhere? I'd like to hear what because

1229
01:23:07,760 --> 01:23:09,639
Speaker 1: at the time, at the time it was like bon

1230
01:23:09,800 --> 01:23:15,200
Speaker 1: Jovi and it was like triggers and drums, you know

1231
01:23:15,960 --> 01:23:22,160
Speaker 1: all that. So here was this stale no dope. But

1232
01:23:22,360 --> 01:23:25,040
Speaker 1: I wouldn't put it on that right, you know, for

1233
01:23:25,120 --> 01:23:28,400
Speaker 1: all those all that non linear you know, and all

1234
01:23:28,479 --> 01:23:32,400
Speaker 1: that stuff. Um, I would have liked the mix of

1235
01:23:32,840 --> 01:23:36,200
Speaker 1: built this Garden for us that would have been funny.

1236
01:23:36,520 --> 01:23:39,559
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. So top five No, no, no, Now, I'm like, man,

1237
01:23:40,120 --> 01:23:42,479
Speaker 1: were those mixes like once you don't know, I don't

1238
01:23:42,479 --> 01:23:46,560
Speaker 1: know someone in virgin I got a call. Yeah, you're

1239
01:23:46,600 --> 01:23:50,840
Speaker 1: in some buildings somewhere in I can't wait. So what's

1240
01:23:50,880 --> 01:23:53,599
Speaker 1: on the let level deluxe thing that came out everything?

1241
01:23:54,240 --> 01:23:56,360
Speaker 1: And I know, but what what came out on on

1242
01:23:56,960 --> 01:24:01,120
Speaker 1: on that edition? Which edition? The anniversary? Yeah, the anniversary edition?

1243
01:24:01,200 --> 01:24:04,679
Speaker 1: All of his like I guess demos and stuff. Every

1244
01:24:05,240 --> 01:24:09,000
Speaker 1: the same exact record, but all the demos like little

1245
01:24:09,040 --> 01:24:11,360
Speaker 1: cassette things singing in with a guitar or something, just

1246
01:24:11,520 --> 01:24:14,400
Speaker 1: like you're I would assume the stuff that you did,

1247
01:24:14,560 --> 01:24:18,680
Speaker 1: uh Cold Turkeys on there, but also like there's a

1248
01:24:18,760 --> 01:24:23,680
Speaker 1: live concert. It's it's like three discs of stuff, but

1249
01:24:24,479 --> 01:24:27,479
Speaker 1: a lot of your two discs. I'm sorry forgive me.

1250
01:24:28,080 --> 01:24:34,320
Speaker 1: Um yeah, mixture of the living room demos and I

1251
01:24:34,360 --> 01:24:36,840
Speaker 1: guess you're well, you do your lyrics inside of a

1252
01:24:37,040 --> 01:24:40,720
Speaker 1: cassette player that sort of thing, I mean a lot

1253
01:24:40,800 --> 01:24:43,439
Speaker 1: of times. Yeah. Yeah, so just we're all we're all

1254
01:24:43,600 --> 01:24:46,679
Speaker 1: demo stuff like that. So okay, I'm sure at this point,

1255
01:24:46,840 --> 01:24:48,960
Speaker 1: at the stage of your life, like their albums that

1256
01:24:49,080 --> 01:24:51,760
Speaker 1: influence you and you've gotten hip to them after the fact,

1257
01:24:52,360 --> 01:24:54,120
Speaker 1: you know, Like I got in the Beatles late when

1258
01:24:54,160 --> 01:24:58,400
Speaker 1: I was in my twenties. But on your first album,

1259
01:24:59,400 --> 01:25:02,519
Speaker 1: what were you? You're like, what was your top five?

1260
01:25:02,640 --> 01:25:05,719
Speaker 1: Can't live without records? I remember when I was making

1261
01:25:05,760 --> 01:25:13,639
Speaker 1: that record. Talking Book was constant, constant. I remember jamming

1262
01:25:13,720 --> 01:25:17,800
Speaker 1: that day and night on my Uh. I think I

1263
01:25:17,880 --> 01:25:22,000
Speaker 1: had made here? M deep, what's that made here? Oh? Yeah,

1264
01:25:22,160 --> 01:25:24,240
Speaker 1: we atually? Yeah, we're talking Book was made here. I'm

1265
01:25:24,280 --> 01:25:26,320
Speaker 1: sorry forgetting. And there's the roots. See that rose right

1266
01:25:26,360 --> 01:25:29,479
Speaker 1: behind you. That's the Stevie Wares. I'm talking about roots.

1267
01:25:29,720 --> 01:25:32,240
Speaker 1: We haven't said. Come on, man, I will lead up

1268
01:25:32,240 --> 01:25:43,800
Speaker 1: to it. Dag nabbit, We've been up to you. You

1269
01:25:43,880 --> 01:25:58,120
Speaker 1: ain't gonna playnna play it? Angry angry. I'm getting angry too, anyway. Yes,

1270
01:25:58,880 --> 01:26:02,519
Speaker 1: ninety minutes to the center. We're an Electric Lady Studios

1271
01:26:03,000 --> 01:26:06,000
Speaker 1: in New York City, home of Talking Book and the

1272
01:26:06,320 --> 01:26:09,240
Speaker 1: music of My Mind and Divisions, a lot of Roy

1273
01:26:09,479 --> 01:26:17,679
Speaker 1: Airs stuff and Jimi Hendrick stuff and nothing my life. Yes, wow,

1274
01:26:18,040 --> 01:26:21,800
Speaker 1: yeah he recorded that here. You never recorded here. We chose,

1275
01:26:21,960 --> 01:26:26,880
Speaker 1: We chose. The reason why we chose vood because well,

1276
01:26:27,120 --> 01:26:31,400
Speaker 1: besides the House of Jimmy, they kept the same instruments

1277
01:26:31,920 --> 01:26:35,439
Speaker 1: forever in the same microphone, So Defender Roads, they've taken

1278
01:26:35,479 --> 01:26:39,200
Speaker 1: care of all the equipments. Beautiful. Yeah, like here is

1279
01:26:39,280 --> 01:26:45,040
Speaker 1: where who got their coffee cup on the top of Okay,

1280
01:26:45,160 --> 01:26:49,200
Speaker 1: there's a lot of damage that we here. Came here

1281
01:26:50,200 --> 01:26:52,599
Speaker 1: I did. Didn't you come by during the Voodoo session? Yes, yes,

1282
01:26:52,680 --> 01:26:55,720
Speaker 1: he did, and he said, quote, there's a discrepancy in

1283
01:26:55,760 --> 01:27:14,719
Speaker 1: the drumming. Did everyone was I not? Oh, she's always

1284
01:27:15,200 --> 01:27:19,280
Speaker 1: know you sent me a thing once. But I remember

1285
01:27:19,320 --> 01:27:22,400
Speaker 1: also taking it to my studio on this is during

1286
01:27:22,439 --> 01:27:24,599
Speaker 1: the five album. When I was making the five album,

1287
01:27:25,960 --> 01:27:28,360
Speaker 1: it was me. I was not hip to that stutter

1288
01:27:28,479 --> 01:27:34,560
Speaker 1: and drum stuff was like it always for like, go on,

1289
01:27:36,080 --> 01:27:42,120
Speaker 1: you know they that's that's you, bro, Yeah, that's you.

1290
01:27:42,320 --> 01:27:45,200
Speaker 1: You know. It took me along, like did you invent that? No,

1291
01:27:45,600 --> 01:27:50,320
Speaker 1: it's what happened. Was what happened was I was meticulous

1292
01:27:50,439 --> 01:27:54,680
Speaker 1: and straight, straighter than six o'clock. And then I never

1293
01:27:54,760 --> 01:27:57,800
Speaker 1: heard that before. That's a grand poop I line right there,

1294
01:27:58,120 --> 01:28:06,080
Speaker 1: come on, yeah anyway, So basically, uh, I wanted people

1295
01:28:06,080 --> 01:28:08,479
Speaker 1: to think I was a computer. But then when I

1296
01:28:08,520 --> 01:28:10,439
Speaker 1: heard Dreaming Eyes of Mine, and then when I heard

1297
01:28:10,520 --> 01:28:12,880
Speaker 1: Jay Dilla, I was like, yo, they sound drunk, Like

1298
01:28:15,000 --> 01:28:17,120
Speaker 1: that's cool. But I was still trying to be straight

1299
01:28:17,400 --> 01:28:20,320
Speaker 1: with with my drummers and and meticulous because I wanted

1300
01:28:20,320 --> 01:28:22,479
Speaker 1: to be like, oh man, that was LEVI is such

1301
01:28:22,479 --> 01:28:28,439
Speaker 1: a metronome. But playing with D. D just naturally sounds

1302
01:28:28,560 --> 01:28:31,360
Speaker 1: like a cool sign hanging from his mouth, and and

1303
01:28:31,479 --> 01:28:35,799
Speaker 1: that he had some moonshine. He just always plays super

1304
01:28:35,960 --> 01:28:39,280
Speaker 1: laid back and right, and it forces you. So it

1305
01:28:39,400 --> 01:28:41,680
Speaker 1: took me and Pino about a good three months to

1306
01:28:42,760 --> 01:28:46,400
Speaker 1: feel safe to do that, because I mean, you're also

1307
01:28:46,520 --> 01:28:49,760
Speaker 1: thinking what I wanted to avoid. I was always with

1308
01:28:49,920 --> 01:28:53,000
Speaker 1: D's program, but I always feared the day that another

1309
01:28:53,120 --> 01:28:56,080
Speaker 1: musician would be like, damn, drums is fucked up. No, no,

1310
01:28:56,160 --> 01:28:58,360
Speaker 1: But I was all old school and my laid back

1311
01:28:58,439 --> 01:29:01,040
Speaker 1: too and four and I was I just wasn't in

1312
01:29:01,120 --> 01:29:03,920
Speaker 1: that head. So we took it. We took it to

1313
01:29:04,000 --> 01:29:06,080
Speaker 1: the whole another level. And when you said that was

1314
01:29:06,120 --> 01:29:08,360
Speaker 1: like and Henry and I were like, there's something wrong

1315
01:29:08,400 --> 01:29:10,439
Speaker 1: with this. And I looked at like, you know, I

1316
01:29:10,640 --> 01:29:15,160
Speaker 1: told you, I know you were just like letting a hip.

1317
01:29:15,600 --> 01:29:17,960
Speaker 1: So can I ask the question he told me was like,

1318
01:29:18,280 --> 01:29:24,639
Speaker 1: I mean with a new excuse me, professor, Professor Kravis.

1319
01:29:25,439 --> 01:29:29,040
Speaker 1: So here's my question. Within the Voodoo like the album,

1320
01:29:29,160 --> 01:29:30,800
Speaker 1: can you give us an example of where we might

1321
01:29:30,840 --> 01:29:36,759
Speaker 1: have heard that stutter just for something? Every song everything

1322
01:29:38,120 --> 01:29:40,720
Speaker 1: behind and doing it, I mean every people are doing

1323
01:29:40,720 --> 01:29:43,240
Speaker 1: it un titled right, Like really is that? Because I

1324
01:29:43,320 --> 01:29:49,639
Speaker 1: hear it? I mean, it's just a beef that should

1325
01:29:49,640 --> 01:29:51,320
Speaker 1: be where you think it should be, and it does

1326
01:29:51,360 --> 01:29:56,800
Speaker 1: it it's behind or you know, and it's it's it's

1327
01:29:56,840 --> 01:29:59,479
Speaker 1: But at the time we wanted him to play on

1328
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:02,640
Speaker 1: he's always in my hair. I really took it to

1329
01:30:02,720 --> 01:30:05,000
Speaker 1: the next hip. I mean I was o Dan on

1330
01:30:05,080 --> 01:30:11,400
Speaker 1: Slum Village, so by that point, you know everything, I

1331
01:30:11,479 --> 01:30:13,880
Speaker 1: wasn't in the right family line at the time. They

1332
01:30:13,960 --> 01:30:16,640
Speaker 1: did it right, Oh man, you don't know. Did you

1333
01:30:16,720 --> 01:30:20,760
Speaker 1: ever introduced the stutup at some later point? Um? Well, Elliott, no,

1334
01:30:21,080 --> 01:30:25,040
Speaker 1: because you got I mean, I consider of the next

1335
01:30:25,120 --> 01:30:27,600
Speaker 1: generation of drummers. I mean, for a while, what's his

1336
01:30:27,680 --> 01:30:35,639
Speaker 1: name was drumming with you? Um uh, drums with wasn't

1337
01:30:35,800 --> 01:30:38,439
Speaker 1: wasn't Daryl drumming for you? For a second, Darry Jones.

1338
01:30:38,880 --> 01:30:48,599
Speaker 1: Was he not drumming Daryl Jones? But you actually know? Damn.

1339
01:30:48,760 --> 01:30:50,599
Speaker 1: I don't want to find this out on my own

1340
01:30:50,760 --> 01:30:53,200
Speaker 1: radio show because I'm about to be loud and wrong

1341
01:30:53,680 --> 01:30:57,360
Speaker 1: in the studio or live live. Who is your drumming

1342
01:30:57,439 --> 01:31:01,080
Speaker 1: that Druones with your tall black Franklin Vanderbilt Jr. Damn,

1343
01:31:01,360 --> 01:31:04,880
Speaker 1: all this time the first time, it's okay, that's name.

1344
01:31:04,920 --> 01:31:07,280
Speaker 1: Now I've been loud and wrong like people where they're

1345
01:31:07,320 --> 01:31:10,280
Speaker 1: born and not, but all this time because frank and

1346
01:31:10,520 --> 01:31:14,920
Speaker 1: and Daru kind of position their drums in a very

1347
01:31:14,960 --> 01:31:17,880
Speaker 1: particular way that I just thought they were the same

1348
01:31:17,960 --> 01:31:21,200
Speaker 1: person based on how they They're the only people I

1349
01:31:21,280 --> 01:31:25,519
Speaker 1: knew who sneered drum leans and tilts towards twelve a

1350
01:31:25,640 --> 01:31:30,840
Speaker 1: clock taking for the clock again Jack White, Jack Jack White, right,

1351
01:31:31,280 --> 01:31:35,600
Speaker 1: the smooth criminal Lean. Yes, So I always thought that

1352
01:31:35,720 --> 01:31:38,880
Speaker 1: Daru was also your drummer and Jack White drummer. Now

1353
01:31:38,920 --> 01:31:42,360
Speaker 1: I'm realizing that there's two. So it's Franklin. Yeah, he's

1354
01:31:42,560 --> 01:31:45,400
Speaker 1: on he's on the New torn now. Yeah, yeah, he's bad.

1355
01:31:46,479 --> 01:31:49,840
Speaker 1: One day I would get names and places on the maps. Right,

1356
01:31:50,240 --> 01:31:52,800
Speaker 1: there's also a singer and I don't know if she

1357
01:31:52,880 --> 01:31:54,519
Speaker 1: still with your shoes. A friend of mine. We went

1358
01:31:54,560 --> 01:31:59,400
Speaker 1: to college together, y'alls? Right, Yes, how did y'all they

1359
01:31:59,760 --> 01:32:05,479
Speaker 1: they did a few years with me. Unstruck the princess thing.

1360
01:32:07,080 --> 01:32:09,240
Speaker 1: That's right. She sang in the because I called her.

1361
01:32:09,320 --> 01:32:12,080
Speaker 1: She was in town. Had her coming joined the choir

1362
01:32:12,160 --> 01:32:14,720
Speaker 1: when we did Doves Cry and the Cross. Yeah, how

1363
01:32:14,760 --> 01:32:16,559
Speaker 1: did you guys think up? How did you come across her?

1364
01:32:17,000 --> 01:32:21,000
Speaker 1: Through Erica Jerry who was one of the background singers.

1365
01:32:22,400 --> 01:32:28,800
Speaker 1: She she was singing with um Raphael Sadik and they

1366
01:32:28,840 --> 01:32:31,559
Speaker 1: were opening for me in Europe, and so we got

1367
01:32:31,600 --> 01:32:33,280
Speaker 1: to know her and then I just called her. I

1368
01:32:33,360 --> 01:32:35,640
Speaker 1: was like, I need three girls for the tour. She

1369
01:32:35,760 --> 01:32:39,479
Speaker 1: brought them all and she she knew yaz. Yeah, we

1370
01:32:39,560 --> 01:32:45,519
Speaker 1: go way back. She's amazing. Okay. So now in your

1371
01:32:45,720 --> 01:32:50,400
Speaker 1: your wise age and in hindsight, I now get the stutter.

1372
01:32:54,479 --> 01:32:57,600
Speaker 1: Let me just getting He went and did five that

1373
01:32:57,680 --> 01:33:00,560
Speaker 1: ship so like gang bustles. So I think he you

1374
01:33:00,640 --> 01:33:05,599
Speaker 1: are no, but I'm saying that, Uh, after let love rules,

1375
01:33:06,920 --> 01:33:15,560
Speaker 1: let love rule comes to be colored. And that was

1376
01:33:18,320 --> 01:33:25,760
Speaker 1: so when it comes out, Uh, you become a household name.

1377
01:33:26,560 --> 01:33:31,240
Speaker 1: And even though I know you've had the bigger album. No, no,

1378
01:33:31,760 --> 01:33:36,600
Speaker 1: it was like the introduction. But yeah, I feel like

1379
01:33:36,720 --> 01:33:41,080
Speaker 1: doors open for you. And also I would like to

1380
01:33:41,240 --> 01:33:46,040
Speaker 1: think that the effects of what happened during that first

1381
01:33:46,080 --> 01:33:50,040
Speaker 1: album is what caused the second album to happen, because

1382
01:33:50,080 --> 01:33:53,560
Speaker 1: there's act I mean, there's some confessional yeah here my

1383
01:33:53,680 --> 01:33:57,120
Speaker 1: dear going on with the second album. So what I

1384
01:33:57,200 --> 01:34:02,000
Speaker 1: want to know is not that a person should ever

1385
01:34:02,120 --> 01:34:07,240
Speaker 1: regret moves or any of course their life takes, but

1386
01:34:09,040 --> 01:34:14,080
Speaker 1: what was it to have success and what occurred that

1387
01:34:15,000 --> 01:34:19,799
Speaker 1: and do you have any regrets of your initial breakout?

1388
01:34:21,080 --> 01:34:30,920
Speaker 1: I hope I asked a whole lot of money. Okay,

1389
01:34:31,200 --> 01:34:34,280
Speaker 1: talk to me about the effects of the effects of

1390
01:34:34,760 --> 01:34:38,920
Speaker 1: the album coming out. And I mean it was fantasy.

1391
01:34:38,960 --> 01:34:40,479
Speaker 1: I didn't know what was going on. Man, this was

1392
01:34:40,600 --> 01:34:45,200
Speaker 1: all I had just grown up, being a fan all

1393
01:34:45,240 --> 01:34:50,000
Speaker 1: my life. And now I'm now I'm doing that thing

1394
01:34:50,360 --> 01:34:52,360
Speaker 1: that I love and I'm going around the world and

1395
01:34:52,960 --> 01:34:55,240
Speaker 1: I'm playing and people know the music and it's like

1396
01:34:55,360 --> 01:34:58,200
Speaker 1: you're the new guy, you know. I mean, Prince called

1397
01:34:58,240 --> 01:34:59,599
Speaker 1: me on the phone. I mean it was like when

1398
01:34:59,640 --> 01:35:02,519
Speaker 1: you're the you know, it's it's to call me on

1399
01:35:02,640 --> 01:35:04,720
Speaker 1: the phone. I mean every you know what it was

1400
01:35:04,760 --> 01:35:06,439
Speaker 1: like all of a sudden, you're meeting these people and

1401
01:35:06,439 --> 01:35:08,920
Speaker 1: everybody's come yok, and was coming around and this you know,

1402
01:35:09,800 --> 01:35:13,800
Speaker 1: and um, actually wait real quick, because you played when

1403
01:35:13,880 --> 01:35:17,760
Speaker 1: you were mine at the Apollo with prints. Yes, what

1404
01:35:17,960 --> 01:35:21,320
Speaker 1: was that like? Um, I don't even remember. It was

1405
01:35:21,400 --> 01:35:24,439
Speaker 1: just like he wudn't hear me all the time, but

1406
01:35:24,560 --> 01:35:26,200
Speaker 1: the mic wasn't that he had me and he had

1407
01:35:26,280 --> 01:35:29,840
Speaker 1: me off on the side because he you know, he

1408
01:35:29,880 --> 01:35:35,120
Speaker 1: didn't want me right there next time. No, but he

1409
01:35:35,320 --> 01:35:37,439
Speaker 1: kicked my ass. It's just you know, but he he

1410
01:35:37,479 --> 01:35:41,120
Speaker 1: always wanted to make sure, you know. But um, yeah,

1411
01:35:41,160 --> 01:35:42,599
Speaker 1: that was a trip. That was one of the first times.

1412
01:35:42,640 --> 01:35:45,840
Speaker 1: We think it's the first time we played live. And

1413
01:35:45,920 --> 01:35:48,400
Speaker 1: then we talked about TV. And then he would call

1414
01:35:48,520 --> 01:35:51,400
Speaker 1: me like we'd be in Amsterdam. He called me the

1415
01:35:51,439 --> 01:35:53,360
Speaker 1: middle of night, I have a show so another city,

1416
01:35:54,080 --> 01:35:57,400
Speaker 1: meet me at this club and we'd go play for

1417
01:35:57,439 --> 01:35:58,880
Speaker 1: a few hours, and then he'd give me like a

1418
01:35:59,000 --> 01:36:01,960
Speaker 1: bag of money, like he was so generous about it.

1419
01:36:02,000 --> 01:36:06,280
Speaker 1: He'd be like, all right, I made this, and here's yours.

1420
01:36:06,400 --> 01:36:10,320
Speaker 1: Here's your cut, he's your cut, and uh he walk

1421
01:36:10,360 --> 01:36:12,599
Speaker 1: out with a bag of money but damn he did

1422
01:36:12,600 --> 01:36:14,600
Speaker 1: the opposite with me. He wants made me take a

1423
01:36:14,720 --> 01:36:26,840
Speaker 1: taxi cab like Philly. The butter was like that sounds

1424
01:36:26,880 --> 01:36:28,680
Speaker 1: like more of the revolution stories too. I was like

1425
01:36:28,720 --> 01:36:31,360
Speaker 1: that sound his version is different because when the revolution

1426
01:36:31,439 --> 01:36:35,280
Speaker 1: was talking, he liked you mother wouldn't even come to

1427
01:36:35,360 --> 01:36:42,800
Speaker 1: my cab. Remember my song lady cab driver there? That

1428
01:36:42,920 --> 01:36:47,519
Speaker 1: was pretty good. That's pretty good. But anyway, it was

1429
01:36:47,600 --> 01:36:50,800
Speaker 1: a fantasy. It was a fantasy. I didn't know. I

1430
01:36:50,960 --> 01:36:53,880
Speaker 1: wasn't thinking I was I was just doing. I had

1431
01:36:53,960 --> 01:36:57,960
Speaker 1: no idea what was going on, no idea, and financially

1432
01:36:58,000 --> 01:36:59,920
Speaker 1: at that time, like were you good? Like were you making?

1433
01:37:00,080 --> 01:37:02,160
Speaker 1: Where was your money? And I was renting an apartment.

1434
01:37:02,200 --> 01:37:05,120
Speaker 1: I wasn't you know, I wasn't making like that. Um,

1435
01:37:05,880 --> 01:37:07,560
Speaker 1: I guess. Starting on the third record, We're are you

1436
01:37:07,600 --> 01:37:09,880
Speaker 1: Gonna Go? My Way? Hit, then it turned into more

1437
01:37:09,920 --> 01:37:13,080
Speaker 1: of a like oh wow, oh we're going around the

1438
01:37:13,080 --> 01:37:15,559
Speaker 1: world playing arenas and you know, speaking of that song,

1439
01:37:15,720 --> 01:37:18,840
Speaker 1: thank you for putting that in guitar Hero, because that

1440
01:37:18,960 --> 01:37:22,439
Speaker 1: turned my son's onto your music, and like we we

1441
01:37:22,640 --> 01:37:25,719
Speaker 1: played that and they loved that song and that thanks

1442
01:37:25,800 --> 01:37:28,000
Speaker 1: that put them onto your music. I started showing them

1443
01:37:28,040 --> 01:38:11,479
Speaker 1: more your stuff. Thank you, yeah, m M cors Love

1444
01:38:11,560 --> 01:38:14,799
Speaker 1: Supreme is a production of I Heart Radio. This classic

1445
01:38:14,840 --> 01:38:17,600
Speaker 1: episode was produced by the team at Pandora