WEBVTT - How Coyotes Work

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<v Speaker 1>Hello Vancouver, Hello Portland's we're going to be in your

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<v Speaker 1>city's Sunday, March twenty nine, Monday, March Chuck, that's right,

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<v Speaker 1>and this is Portland, Oregon. Since we've been to Portland, Maine.

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<v Speaker 1>We need to specify now, Oh yeah, that's right. But

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<v Speaker 1>they'd be weird to go from Vancouver to Portland, Maine.

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<v Speaker 1>But yeah, we can't wait. We've been to both these towns.

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<v Speaker 1>They've always been kind to us, but we are performing

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<v Speaker 1>in larger venues this time, so we need you to

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<v Speaker 1>dumb dumbs. And you can find out all the information,

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<v Speaker 1>including where to buy tickets at s y s K

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<v Speaker 1>live dot com. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a

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<v Speaker 1>production of I Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, and

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<v Speaker 1>welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark and there's your

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<v Speaker 1>other host, Charles W. Chuck Bryant. There, there's Jerry Roland

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<v Speaker 1>and our producer. This is Stuff you Should Know Coyote edition.

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<v Speaker 1>So how are we going to pronounce it? I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>it's coyote, but coyote's kind of fun, but you could

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<v Speaker 1>also pronounce it coyote coyote. There's a lot of ways. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>so I say coyote, but I don't think that that's

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<v Speaker 1>technically correct eating it's coyote. Maybe yet I think it's

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<v Speaker 1>just swallowed my tongue. Uh. There's a lot of good

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<v Speaker 1>band names in here, by the way, I noticed. Oh yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>i'll call them all out. Well, I'll call out the

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<v Speaker 1>first one right away. Genus Canus. It's pretty good, okay. Uh,

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<v Speaker 1>that is the where coyotes are members of the genus Canus. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>and Canus includes all dogs, Yeah, jackals, dogs, wolves, uh,

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<v Speaker 1>and dogs. That's why I said dogs. I know, but

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<v Speaker 1>there's so many great dogs that you just gotta say

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<v Speaker 1>it twice. Well, I don't want to short change the

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<v Speaker 1>jackals of the world. Who likes jackals? Nobody likes jackals.

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<v Speaker 1>That's right, you know, screw them right, say them once.

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<v Speaker 1>As a matter of fact, let's go back and beep

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<v Speaker 1>out the second time we said that name. But hey,

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<v Speaker 1>one thing about this about family candidate, which all dogs

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<v Speaker 1>belong to. It's a really old um family and it's

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<v Speaker 1>native to North America. So like all those jackals, if

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<v Speaker 1>you want to talk about them some more, that made

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<v Speaker 1>it outside of North America. They started here they didn't

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<v Speaker 1>come from anywhere else, started in North America. Coyotes as

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<v Speaker 1>North American as apple Pie and Granny and Baseball and

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<v Speaker 1>dogs and Dogs. We've done a lot of episodes that

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<v Speaker 1>are dog related over the years, and I still haven't

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<v Speaker 1>knocked out the one that I really want to do,

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<v Speaker 1>which is the the first Dog, like the first domesticated dog.

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<v Speaker 1>That'd be a good one. They made that movie, but

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not sure if it had any truth to it whatsoever.

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<v Speaker 1>Train Spotty. When that stuff happens, do you just say

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<v Speaker 1>the first thing that came into your head? No, the

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<v Speaker 1>first thing that came into my head was never cry Wolf.

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<v Speaker 1>But I was like, that makes too much. I remember

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<v Speaker 1>that movie that, Yeah, that was a good one. That

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<v Speaker 1>was when we were kids, right Disney. It was a

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<v Speaker 1>Disney jam, but I think it was like a little

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<v Speaker 1>but it's scarier. Is there's something about it that made

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<v Speaker 1>it like groundbreaking for Disney. I don't remember what it was, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I remember too. Uh. And then that that terrible looking

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<v Speaker 1>Call of the Wild Thing is out? Now, why can't

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<v Speaker 1>anybody stuff? Man? It's driving me crazy. Have you seen

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<v Speaker 1>these spectrum ads with Ellen degenerous on them? Apparently they're

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<v Speaker 1>just using c G I, Ellen, Because Ellen, if if

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<v Speaker 1>it's not, I was making a joke. It's the weirdest

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<v Speaker 1>makeup I've ever seen that actually makes her look c

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<v Speaker 1>G I. But it looks so much like that, it's

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<v Speaker 1>it seems likelier to me that it's a c G I. Ellen,

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<v Speaker 1>And I don't understand why. Surely not proved me wrong? World. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm thinking now, if I'm Ellen and they say, hey,

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<v Speaker 1>we want to choot a bunch of spots with you,

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<v Speaker 1>we'll pay five million dollars, or we'll pay you three

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<v Speaker 1>and a half million for your image likeness, you could

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<v Speaker 1>stay at home. I would stay at home. I would travel,

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<v Speaker 1>you would, sure, that's true? A million a half bucks? Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>it's a lot of dough how would travel? Plus? Also,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, like curse spots in these spectrum commercials are

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<v Speaker 1>so small and limited that it couldn't possibly take more

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<v Speaker 1>than half of a day per spot. Yeah, and they

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<v Speaker 1>and when you're a big star like that, you can

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<v Speaker 1>dictate it. You can be like, sure, I'll do it.

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<v Speaker 1>You've got me for two hours, right, you have to

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<v Speaker 1>pay for the teleportation, that's right, you know, But it's

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<v Speaker 1>so Yes, they called the wild thing to stop. Stop,

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<v Speaker 1>everybody stop. Yeah. Of course maybe Harrison Ford was so

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<v Speaker 1>stoned he didn't even realize it wasn't a real dog.

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<v Speaker 1>God bless him. All right, So back to coyotes. There

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<v Speaker 1>are they are. The scientific name is Canis Latran's barking dog. Sure, boy,

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<v Speaker 1>they make a lot of noise. We'll get to at

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<v Speaker 1>their nineteen. Subspecies generally has to do with their range,

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<v Speaker 1>but sometimes it can be bigger or smaller, different kind

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<v Speaker 1>of coats um and they. One thing we will learn

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<v Speaker 1>throughout this whole thing is and we need a T

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<v Speaker 1>shirt that says this is dang it to the coyote

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<v Speaker 1>cannot be stopped. Boy do they persevere. There's probably no

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<v Speaker 1>greater survivor maybe currently alive on Earth that's a mammal

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<v Speaker 1>at least than a coyote. Yeah, I mean we will see.

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<v Speaker 1>There have been efforts over the years to extinct them

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<v Speaker 1>on purpose, like a coyote holocaust. Yeah. And the and

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<v Speaker 1>the coyote just trots away with that signature bounce and

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<v Speaker 1>gives the finger and and it's actually good luck. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>and has actually expanded the range and swollen in population

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<v Speaker 1>despite an effort to to drive them purposefully to extinction

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<v Speaker 1>a well funded really yeah at different times. Yeah, it's

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<v Speaker 1>pretty amazing, Yeah, it really is. I mean I feel

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<v Speaker 1>very bad for coyotes. I do to Um. One reason

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<v Speaker 1>I wanted to do this one is because there's coyotes

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<v Speaker 1>in in Atlanta, is in every major city in America

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<v Speaker 1>almost yea. And there's coyotes around humans in my neighborhood

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<v Speaker 1>and that means it's Momo's neighborhood too, And so you

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<v Speaker 1>me went off on this, like she found out about

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<v Speaker 1>that and just started learning everything she could about coyotes, Like,

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<v Speaker 1>we need a new fence. We got to get a

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<v Speaker 1>coyote vest for Momo, which she now has. Yeah, she

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<v Speaker 1>looks adorable in it. They work for hawks and things too, right, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>it's I think they're one and the same predate predator vest.

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<v Speaker 1>But I think it's called like the brand name as

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<v Speaker 1>a coyote vest. I think I think, Um, like, we

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<v Speaker 1>know a lot about coyotes because they're in our neighborhood,

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<v Speaker 1>and like the more we learn about it, the more

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<v Speaker 1>it's like I hate them in that they would take

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<v Speaker 1>Momo if they had a chance. Um, but I also

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<v Speaker 1>do feel bad for them too, because they are uh,

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<v Speaker 1>just trying to make their own way and live there.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, they're just being a coyote, right exactly. I

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<v Speaker 1>mean Emily and I saw coyotes in our neighborhood in

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<v Speaker 1>l a and Igorrock on walks and we saw, uh,

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<v Speaker 1>we've seen them in Atlanta. We saw one a few

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<v Speaker 1>months ago at night that looks very sick and was alone. Um.

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<v Speaker 1>But we will dispel some myths. Not every coyote you

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<v Speaker 1>see alone as rabid. Not every coyote see during the

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<v Speaker 1>day as rabid um. And we'll get more into this,

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<v Speaker 1>but they if it weren't for people, coyotes would be

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<v Speaker 1>out all the time during the day. Yeah. They're not

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<v Speaker 1>nocturnal by nature. No, they're not. They're diurnal and the

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<v Speaker 1>naught by nature. And well, they may be the ones that, um,

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<v Speaker 1>that that live closest to humans and urban areas or

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<v Speaker 1>suburban areas have actually adapted their behavior and become I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know what you call it. I guess they are nocturnal,

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<v Speaker 1>but they're most active at dawn and dusk. But they're

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<v Speaker 1>definitely not diurnal where they're active during the day and

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<v Speaker 1>sleep at night like they normally are. They've actually altered

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<v Speaker 1>their behavior, and it's just one of the many coyotes

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<v Speaker 1>are like, fine, that's that's fine, will change, will change

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<v Speaker 1>to stay alive. That's right. Uh. I think another Urban

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<v Speaker 1>County was another band name I thought was good and

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<v Speaker 1>I actually looked that up and of course there's an

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<v Speaker 1>urban County band. Uh. Speaking of urban counties, they actually

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<v Speaker 1>caught one in at Metro Atlanta recently, very very rare,

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<v Speaker 1>all black coyote named Carmine. They trapped the big reggoo. Interesting,

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<v Speaker 1>but I mentioned that trot. That's how you like if

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<v Speaker 1>you're out walking at night or walking your dogs and

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<v Speaker 1>you see what you think is a dog and it's

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<v Speaker 1>got this there's this little signature bouncy trot. You're like,

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<v Speaker 1>oh no, no, no no, that's no dog. All right. So

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<v Speaker 1>back to counties in general, Uh, they are wolf like,

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<v Speaker 1>but they have narrow, more narrow snouts. Uh, they're not

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<v Speaker 1>quite as muscular. Um Ed Grabanowski helped us put this together.

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<v Speaker 1>He wanted to point out that they're bigger than foxes,

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<v Speaker 1>which I thought was funny. It seemed obvious to me

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<v Speaker 1>that they're bigger than foxes, but maybe not everyone knows that. Well.

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<v Speaker 1>The first Uh, coyote that was spotted by Anglo Americans,

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<v Speaker 1>which was the Lewis and Clark expedition. Um, they thought

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<v Speaker 1>it was a fox from Afar, and then when they

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<v Speaker 1>shot one and got up close, they're like, oh, it's

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<v Speaker 1>kind of wolfe. They don't look like foxes at all

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<v Speaker 1>to me. No, but I guess it was like staying

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<v Speaker 1>far enough away that I couldn't tell. Who knows. People

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<v Speaker 1>were much dumber back then. They were all smoking opium

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<v Speaker 1>on that trip. I also like, I would like to

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<v Speaker 1>acknowledge a stuff you should know. First, we had a

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<v Speaker 1>mid show producer change. Jerry started out the show about

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<v Speaker 1>eight nine minutes ago. She said, to heck with this,

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<v Speaker 1>She's had it. Jerry had to go. Jerry had to

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<v Speaker 1>go do a call and said Josh, Josh, Josh. He

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<v Speaker 1>stepped in. Welcome Josh. Never happened before. Thanks for doing that.

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<v Speaker 1>I wonder who's going to finish up the show. I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know, our little pecking bird perhaps. Yeah, okay, you

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<v Speaker 1>acted like you didn't get the reference the dipping bird. Theah,

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<v Speaker 1>the dipping bird. Uh. So coyotes bigger than a fox,

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<v Speaker 1>smaller than an elephant. Uh, their tip nose to tail,

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<v Speaker 1>body length usually about two to five ft. Yeah. They

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<v Speaker 1>basically looked like somebody took a shrink ray on a

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<v Speaker 1>wolf and just dropped it by like, yeah, fifty pounds.

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<v Speaker 1>Their fur brown tan, kind of gray, kind of modeled. Uh,

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<v Speaker 1>and you know that's a coyote. Yeah. They eat mammals mostly,

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<v Speaker 1>but well also there are omnivores el eat berries. If

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<v Speaker 1>there's a lot of berries, Oh yeah, they'll eat They

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<v Speaker 1>love fruit. They love figs apparently, but they're diet as

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<v Speaker 1>mammals supposedly. Here's the thing. If you're just kind of

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<v Speaker 1>like coyotes, cool, whatever, they're related to dogs in there,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, all over the place. I want you to just,

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<v Speaker 1>first of all, listen to this episode. But things just

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<v Speaker 1>start like researching kyotes. You will be astounded and amazed

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<v Speaker 1>at every turn. Coyotes like fruit. So do you know

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<v Speaker 1>what coyotes do. They climb trees and balance on branches

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<v Speaker 1>so that they can get all the fruit that they want.

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<v Speaker 1>Look it up. Look up pictures of coyotes climbing trees.

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<v Speaker 1>They take small animals like dogs out of the backyard,

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<v Speaker 1>so coyotes can jump over fences six ft are under

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<v Speaker 1>and squeeze through slats of pickets three inches or wider.

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<v Speaker 1>They also dig under if they need to do all

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<v Speaker 1>sorts of crazy stuff. Coyote will say, hey, lizard, come

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<v Speaker 1>here your lunch. Yeah, they'll eat lizards, will so they'll

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<v Speaker 1>eat just about lead, insects, Yeah, they'll lead insects, they'll um.

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<v Speaker 1>They specialize in rodents, small mammals, rabbits, that kind of thing,

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<v Speaker 1>but they will eat just about anything. And one of

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<v Speaker 1>the things that its sounded me the most is um.

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<v Speaker 1>And I know we're hopping all over the place here,

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<v Speaker 1>that's right, And I want this to just evolve into like,

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<v Speaker 1>here's a cool coyote effect, but it may That's all right.

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<v Speaker 1>They engage in the social behavior called fission fusion, where

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<v Speaker 1>they can be they're totally fine hunting alone, living alone,

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<v Speaker 1>but they're also totally fine hunting and packs living in

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<v Speaker 1>packs depending on the kinds of resources available. So if

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<v Speaker 1>there's like deer in an area, coyote can't take a

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<v Speaker 1>deer down on their own, but at coyote, if there's

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<v Speaker 1>deer available in the area, they'll get with other coyotes

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<v Speaker 1>in the area and hunt in a pack. But normally

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<v Speaker 1>they just hunt by themselves when there's like say, lots

0:12:37.920 --> 0:12:40.600
<v Speaker 1>of rabbits, because all it takes is one. But depending

0:12:40.640 --> 0:12:43.360
<v Speaker 1>on the food available and the resources available, and how

0:12:43.440 --> 0:12:46.440
<v Speaker 1>many other coyotes are in the area, they'll come into

0:12:46.600 --> 0:12:52.920
<v Speaker 1>and out of these fluid packs, depending on basically the situation.

0:12:52.960 --> 0:12:56.440
<v Speaker 1>Like what you uh. Here's another thing, Like we said,

0:12:56.480 --> 0:13:01.439
<v Speaker 1>they small rodents and mammals usually, But if you're an elk,

0:13:01.720 --> 0:13:05.240
<v Speaker 1>like with a head cold, watch your back because that

0:13:05.320 --> 0:13:08.400
<v Speaker 1>coyote knows it, and he knows that you're not feeling well,

0:13:09.160 --> 0:13:11.320
<v Speaker 1>and he might come at you with a buddy or

0:13:11.320 --> 0:13:15.199
<v Speaker 1>two and feast on you for a few days because

0:13:15.200 --> 0:13:17.320
<v Speaker 1>of that fusion. They've entered that fusion mode and now

0:13:17.320 --> 0:13:20.559
<v Speaker 1>they're hunting impacts. Here's one thing you don't really need

0:13:20.600 --> 0:13:26.319
<v Speaker 1>to worry about, is coyote attack on yourself. It has happened,

0:13:26.880 --> 0:13:30.240
<v Speaker 1>but it's very rare. One of the most astounding things

0:13:30.280 --> 0:13:35.120
<v Speaker 1>I've ever seen is a coyote that was sneaking up

0:13:35.120 --> 0:13:38.720
<v Speaker 1>on a little kid playing in their driveway, must have

0:13:38.720 --> 0:13:43.280
<v Speaker 1>been in California or something like that, and the family

0:13:43.360 --> 0:13:48.240
<v Speaker 1>cat comes tearing around the side of the house as

0:13:48.360 --> 0:13:50.480
<v Speaker 1>at the moment the coyote is about a pounce on

0:13:50.520 --> 0:13:55.000
<v Speaker 1>the kid and jumps onto the coyote. That one pushes

0:13:55.040 --> 0:13:57.720
<v Speaker 1>off of the coyote, the coyote takes off. The cat

0:13:57.840 --> 0:14:01.480
<v Speaker 1>saved the little kid's life. Yeah, the most amazing thing

0:14:01.480 --> 0:14:04.880
<v Speaker 1>I've ever seen. I saw him just from last night. Uh,

0:14:05.200 --> 0:14:08.600
<v Speaker 1>a group of a pack of coyotes was fended off

0:14:08.640 --> 0:14:10.760
<v Speaker 1>by a cat and they caught up. Someone caught it

0:14:10.840 --> 0:14:14.160
<v Speaker 1>all on their house camera. You don't mess with cats, man, No,

0:14:14.280 --> 0:14:17.640
<v Speaker 1>I know they're they're vicious. Yeah so so yeah in

0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:20.520
<v Speaker 1>that one, if you watch closely, you can show me

0:14:20.560 --> 0:14:23.640
<v Speaker 1>that one that one of the coyotes all over the caches.

0:14:24.960 --> 0:14:28.080
<v Speaker 1>She's basically watching animal snuff movies for a while. Researcher,

0:14:28.200 --> 0:14:30.760
<v Speaker 1>I'm like, you have to stop. This can't be healthy

0:14:30.840 --> 0:14:34.800
<v Speaker 1>for you. But um, but like should just be sitting

0:14:34.800 --> 0:14:37.000
<v Speaker 1>in bed with her knees pull chest Like they're not

0:14:37.000 --> 0:14:38.880
<v Speaker 1>going to give home off, they're not gonna get up.

0:14:39.240 --> 0:14:41.600
<v Speaker 1>But one of those coyotes to get out of the way,

0:14:41.680 --> 0:14:43.520
<v Speaker 1>the cat just jumped right up on like this five

0:14:43.520 --> 0:14:45.520
<v Speaker 1>foot wall right next to it, like a vertical leap

0:14:45.640 --> 0:14:47.960
<v Speaker 1>up onto the wall. It's not even like it's nothing,

0:14:48.520 --> 0:14:51.040
<v Speaker 1>but but yes, cats still mess around. With coyotes, it's

0:14:51.080 --> 0:14:55.600
<v Speaker 1>pretty amazing. So uh, they live usually only about six

0:14:55.640 --> 0:14:59.360
<v Speaker 1>to eight years in the wild. Um, they have seen

0:14:59.400 --> 0:15:02.000
<v Speaker 1>them a oldest ten or fifteen. But I kind of

0:15:02.040 --> 0:15:05.400
<v Speaker 1>wondered about dogs and like just a dog in the

0:15:05.440 --> 0:15:08.040
<v Speaker 1>woods that never a feral dog that never was claimed,

0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:11.160
<v Speaker 1>Like if that really was a short lifespan as well,

0:15:11.440 --> 0:15:18.120
<v Speaker 1>probably kind of curious compared to a domestic dog for sure. Yeah, absolutely, yeah. Uh.

0:15:18.160 --> 0:15:21.280
<v Speaker 1>If you are a coyote, you will choose your mate

0:15:21.360 --> 0:15:25.920
<v Speaker 1>for life, which is very very sweet. Yeah, unless that

0:15:26.000 --> 0:15:28.360
<v Speaker 1>mate dies and then they are allowed to go out

0:15:28.360 --> 0:15:32.400
<v Speaker 1>and find a new mate. Socially it's okay, yeah, but yeah,

0:15:32.440 --> 0:15:37.280
<v Speaker 1>they they mate for life. They raised their young together. Um,

0:15:37.400 --> 0:15:40.120
<v Speaker 1>and the the young grow up really quick. They usually

0:15:40.120 --> 0:15:43.280
<v Speaker 1>have about litters of I think I saw six on average,

0:15:43.520 --> 0:15:45.920
<v Speaker 1>but it can be as low as three. I'm sure

0:15:45.920 --> 0:15:48.000
<v Speaker 1>you can go even lower than that, but it can

0:15:48.040 --> 0:15:50.800
<v Speaker 1>get up into the teens. They need them. And this

0:15:50.880 --> 0:15:56.080
<v Speaker 1>is why coyotes have proven utterly impossible to exterminate. Thankfully,

0:15:56.120 --> 0:15:58.400
<v Speaker 1>we stopped trying to do that, but for a very

0:15:58.440 --> 0:16:00.680
<v Speaker 1>long time we tried to and we'll talk about more later.

0:16:00.920 --> 0:16:04.440
<v Speaker 1>But the reason why it proved impossible is because coyote

0:16:04.920 --> 0:16:10.840
<v Speaker 1>mothers basically change the number of coyotes they have in

0:16:10.920 --> 0:16:16.280
<v Speaker 1>their litter depending on how the population is expanding or contracts. Amazing,

0:16:16.720 --> 0:16:18.280
<v Speaker 1>and they do this. One of the ways that they

0:16:18.360 --> 0:16:21.280
<v Speaker 1>figured out they do this is that coyote howell where

0:16:21.320 --> 0:16:23.880
<v Speaker 1>you hear coyote howling nearby, and then some other one

0:16:24.640 --> 0:16:26.800
<v Speaker 1>is often the distance and another one even further off.

0:16:27.360 --> 0:16:30.320
<v Speaker 1>They figured out that they are basically taking a census

0:16:30.800 --> 0:16:33.680
<v Speaker 1>how many of you got, and the last response will

0:16:33.680 --> 0:16:38.000
<v Speaker 1>actually trigger a hormonal change in female coyotes who are

0:16:38.040 --> 0:16:40.920
<v Speaker 1>a reproductive age, and they will have more pups than

0:16:41.000 --> 0:16:43.600
<v Speaker 1>they would have if they got in a response to

0:16:43.600 --> 0:16:47.640
<v Speaker 1>their call. Unbelievable. Uh. They have their well talk about

0:16:47.640 --> 0:16:49.640
<v Speaker 1>their families in a sect, but they raise their young

0:16:49.640 --> 0:16:52.520
<v Speaker 1>in dens. Uh. Sometimes they will make their own den,

0:16:52.560 --> 0:16:54.000
<v Speaker 1>but a lot of times they will take over the

0:16:54.040 --> 0:16:58.160
<v Speaker 1>den of another animal and uh renovate it, make it

0:16:58.200 --> 0:17:00.880
<v Speaker 1>their own, usually expand it a little bigger, but a

0:17:00.920 --> 0:17:04.800
<v Speaker 1>little macromay. Yeah, maybe at a steam shower perhaps, Oh nice,

0:17:04.920 --> 0:17:08.320
<v Speaker 1>You never know. Uh. They returned to their dens if

0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:12.840
<v Speaker 1>they can, uh, year after year, if it's available, and

0:17:13.520 --> 0:17:15.879
<v Speaker 1>sometimes you will find them in weird places though, like

0:17:15.880 --> 0:17:18.320
<v Speaker 1>a drainage tunnel or in the cross space of a

0:17:18.320 --> 0:17:23.000
<v Speaker 1>house or something. But those are obviously urban coyotes. Yeah,

0:17:23.080 --> 0:17:26.600
<v Speaker 1>and so they're their territory actually is. It can be

0:17:26.680 --> 0:17:28.840
<v Speaker 1>really big, it can be really small. It depends on

0:17:28.880 --> 0:17:33.080
<v Speaker 1>how dense their food sources are. Yeah, they're really uh

0:17:33.240 --> 0:17:36.479
<v Speaker 1>flexible yep, with with how they live their lives, like

0:17:36.520 --> 0:17:39.040
<v Speaker 1>in every single way, shape or form, so so much so.

0:17:39.080 --> 0:17:40.960
<v Speaker 1>I mean we talked about the fission and the fusion

0:17:41.640 --> 0:17:46.639
<v Speaker 1>um social structure. It's just this fluid social structure um

0:17:46.680 --> 0:17:50.160
<v Speaker 1>in the pack. The basic unit of of coyote society

0:17:50.240 --> 0:17:52.840
<v Speaker 1>is the family, the mother and the father, the two

0:17:52.880 --> 0:17:57.320
<v Speaker 1>alpha's and then their offspring or betas this gets really interesting,

0:17:57.359 --> 0:17:59.919
<v Speaker 1>and their offspring again, depending on the resources, they may

0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:04.240
<v Speaker 1>stick around and help raise another litter. Those are called helpers.

0:18:04.520 --> 0:18:07.560
<v Speaker 1>They may stick around and basically just mooch. They call

0:18:07.680 --> 0:18:11.080
<v Speaker 1>those slouches. Yes, slouches are the ones who come home

0:18:11.119 --> 0:18:14.720
<v Speaker 1>from Appalachian State spend a lot of time on the couch.

0:18:15.359 --> 0:18:17.520
<v Speaker 1>But they're they're they're in the pack. But it just

0:18:17.560 --> 0:18:21.200
<v Speaker 1>says here they're not contributing in any way basically. Yeah, um,

0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:24.119
<v Speaker 1>and then so some some beata's depending like if food

0:18:24.119 --> 0:18:26.720
<v Speaker 1>starts to get scarce or whatever, some alphaals will be

0:18:26.760 --> 0:18:28.520
<v Speaker 1>like you, you need to go. It's time for you

0:18:28.560 --> 0:18:30.639
<v Speaker 1>to go find your own territory, of your own range.

0:18:31.000 --> 0:18:33.360
<v Speaker 1>Go be a loner, Go find a mate, just get

0:18:33.400 --> 0:18:37.320
<v Speaker 1>out of the basement basically. Um. But other times they

0:18:37.400 --> 0:18:39.640
<v Speaker 1>might be allowed to stay, depending on the food sources.

0:18:39.680 --> 0:18:42.280
<v Speaker 1>And and that's where that fusion and fission kicks in.

0:18:43.040 --> 0:18:46.520
<v Speaker 1>That's right. Uh, all right, maybe we should take a

0:18:46.520 --> 0:18:50.720
<v Speaker 1>break here and we'll talk about loner coyotes right after this.

0:18:51.359 --> 0:19:13.080
<v Speaker 1>M alright, we're back, and we were talking about the

0:19:13.119 --> 0:19:17.160
<v Speaker 1>pack size, how it can shift depending on the resources. Uh,

0:19:17.160 --> 0:19:20.840
<v Speaker 1>there are also lone or coyotes. Maybe their beta they

0:19:20.840 --> 0:19:23.720
<v Speaker 1>get kicked off the couch finally, or maybe they are

0:19:23.760 --> 0:19:26.959
<v Speaker 1>an aged out alpha. Um. And like I said, if

0:19:27.000 --> 0:19:29.960
<v Speaker 1>you see a coyote by him or herself, that doesn't

0:19:30.000 --> 0:19:33.520
<v Speaker 1>mean maybe I should say itself doesn't necessarily mean they're rabid.

0:19:33.560 --> 0:19:36.640
<v Speaker 1>Because you get on these Facebook neighborhood pages and there's

0:19:36.680 --> 0:19:40.320
<v Speaker 1>coyote sites sightings, and people lose their minds and give

0:19:40.320 --> 0:19:42.760
<v Speaker 1>out a lot of bad information. It goes both ways.

0:19:43.040 --> 0:19:46.080
<v Speaker 1>People are either like say kill them, kill it, kill

0:19:46.080 --> 0:19:48.760
<v Speaker 1>it with fire as fast as you can, or else.

0:19:48.840 --> 0:19:50.840
<v Speaker 1>Other people are like, well, I've been feeding it for

0:19:50.880 --> 0:19:52.760
<v Speaker 1>the last couple of weeks. It's nice. It likes to

0:19:52.800 --> 0:19:55.120
<v Speaker 1>come play with my dogs, right, Or it's out during

0:19:55.119 --> 0:19:57.919
<v Speaker 1>the day it's so it's rabid for sure, or it

0:19:58.000 --> 0:20:01.080
<v Speaker 1>was by itself, so it was rabid. There aren't There

0:20:01.080 --> 0:20:04.600
<v Speaker 1>haven't been big outbreaks of rabid cavities and many many,

0:20:04.600 --> 0:20:08.159
<v Speaker 1>many years. Yeah, apparently they made a concerted effort to

0:20:08.200 --> 0:20:11.440
<v Speaker 1>eradicate rabies among coyotes and so not just coyotes, but

0:20:11.520 --> 0:20:14.159
<v Speaker 1>I think mammals in the wild in general. And so

0:20:14.200 --> 0:20:22.120
<v Speaker 1>they started basically dropping vaccines bait basically but vaccinated. Would

0:20:22.160 --> 0:20:24.800
<v Speaker 1>you say wolf bait? I don't think that's a widely

0:20:24.880 --> 0:20:28.560
<v Speaker 1>known term that My buddy Eddie, he's just say that

0:20:28.600 --> 0:20:31.720
<v Speaker 1>for farting, he's dropping wolf baite. He might have made

0:20:31.720 --> 0:20:34.840
<v Speaker 1>that up. So imagine if that was vaccinated, that's what

0:20:34.880 --> 0:20:38.400
<v Speaker 1>they were doing, and um, dropping wolf baite, that's that's

0:20:38.400 --> 0:20:40.520
<v Speaker 1>good stuff. I gotta say, it's nice, haven't Josh t

0:20:40.720 --> 0:20:45.000
<v Speaker 1>laughing over there? Not? Jerry's just permanent lack of care,

0:20:46.880 --> 0:20:50.800
<v Speaker 1>no idea, no idea. Um. So they actually managed to

0:20:51.320 --> 0:20:55.560
<v Speaker 1>largely get rid of rabies among coyotes from what we understand. Yeah,

0:20:55.600 --> 0:20:58.520
<v Speaker 1>so maybe we should talk about the beginnings. Go ahead,

0:20:58.680 --> 0:21:01.080
<v Speaker 1>I was gonna say, but they do finally carry distemper,

0:21:01.480 --> 0:21:03.760
<v Speaker 1>and they can carry rabies. Is not to say like

0:21:03.760 --> 0:21:06.600
<v Speaker 1>there are rabbid coyotes. It's just not a big problem.

0:21:06.720 --> 0:21:10.760
<v Speaker 1>And one of those Facebook commenters I quoted saying that

0:21:10.880 --> 0:21:13.119
<v Speaker 1>it likes to come play with my dogs. That actually happens.

0:21:13.200 --> 0:21:15.720
<v Speaker 1>Coyotes are known to play with dogs. That's how Carmine,

0:21:15.760 --> 0:21:20.040
<v Speaker 1>the rare black um coyote was trapped. He made friends

0:21:20.040 --> 0:21:23.520
<v Speaker 1>with a Great Pyrenees in Smyrna and was playing around

0:21:23.560 --> 0:21:25.600
<v Speaker 1>and like they finally set up some traps in the

0:21:25.640 --> 0:21:28.320
<v Speaker 1>yard and he fell for one of them. Um. Those

0:21:28.359 --> 0:21:32.480
<v Speaker 1>Pyrenees are beautiful dogs, they really are. But um, that

0:21:32.560 --> 0:21:36.560
<v Speaker 1>pyrenees hopefully had distemper vaccine because just playing with the coyote,

0:21:36.600 --> 0:21:39.000
<v Speaker 1>it can be it can it can get distemper and

0:21:39.040 --> 0:21:40.919
<v Speaker 1>that's something you want your dog to have. No, not

0:21:41.040 --> 0:21:44.520
<v Speaker 1>at all. So uh, let's talk a little bit about

0:21:44.600 --> 0:21:49.520
<v Speaker 1>the beginnings of the coyotes. They were, or at least

0:21:49.520 --> 0:21:54.480
<v Speaker 1>what we think is that coyotes and wolves and then

0:21:55.040 --> 0:22:00.840
<v Speaker 1>now extinct. Uh, other kind of dog basically were around,

0:22:00.920 --> 0:22:02.760
<v Speaker 1>and they were sort of the starting point for what

0:22:02.800 --> 0:22:05.760
<v Speaker 1>are counties and wolves, but they were apparently much more

0:22:05.800 --> 0:22:09.280
<v Speaker 1>like coyotes and wolves. So they generally think that counties

0:22:09.320 --> 0:22:13.120
<v Speaker 1>were sort of the the o G evolutionarily speaking, right right.

0:22:13.520 --> 0:22:16.719
<v Speaker 1>I saw also that, um, there's a line of thinking

0:22:16.760 --> 0:22:21.239
<v Speaker 1>that they descended from red wolves whose range still is

0:22:21.400 --> 0:22:24.679
<v Speaker 1>over the southeast in Texas. I think there's still a

0:22:24.720 --> 0:22:29.760
<v Speaker 1>few around today. Um. But the the however they started

0:22:30.640 --> 0:22:32.920
<v Speaker 1>it happened anywhere from I think two million years ago

0:22:32.960 --> 0:22:36.080
<v Speaker 1>to three hundred thousand years ago. Coyotes evolved, and again

0:22:36.520 --> 0:22:41.040
<v Speaker 1>here in North America. This is there there um home continent.

0:22:41.720 --> 0:22:45.639
<v Speaker 1>But as they started to evolve, the ones that first

0:22:45.680 --> 0:22:50.679
<v Speaker 1>came along were bigger and um, heavier than the coyotes

0:22:50.720 --> 0:22:54.920
<v Speaker 1>we know today. But the problem is is they were

0:22:55.000 --> 0:22:59.160
<v Speaker 1>in direct competition be based on their size with wolves,

0:22:59.720 --> 0:23:04.320
<v Speaker 1>and wolves are and have always been much more aggressive hunters.

0:23:04.760 --> 0:23:08.919
<v Speaker 1>They don't tolerate other aggressive predators in their range, so

0:23:08.960 --> 0:23:13.760
<v Speaker 1>they'll go after a coyote. And so this is really interesting.

0:23:13.840 --> 0:23:17.160
<v Speaker 1>Over over the years, um, just from living with wolves,

0:23:17.760 --> 0:23:21.280
<v Speaker 1>coyotes apparently started to shrink down in size so that

0:23:21.320 --> 0:23:24.160
<v Speaker 1>they could fill an ecological niche that had been left

0:23:24.200 --> 0:23:28.240
<v Speaker 1>open rodents and rabbits, which wolves don't care that much about.

0:23:28.280 --> 0:23:30.200
<v Speaker 1>Wolves want to take down like caribo and elk, and

0:23:30.200 --> 0:23:33.239
<v Speaker 1>they hunt in packs exclusively. They don't care about rabbits, right,

0:23:33.560 --> 0:23:36.119
<v Speaker 1>So that that left the rabbits to the coyotes and

0:23:36.200 --> 0:23:38.760
<v Speaker 1>kyotes kind of shrunk in size and started going after that.

0:23:39.040 --> 0:23:41.560
<v Speaker 1>And then one other thing that happened to Chuck was

0:23:41.680 --> 0:23:46.159
<v Speaker 1>that meant that because they were confronting wolves, the coyotes

0:23:46.200 --> 0:23:49.000
<v Speaker 1>that were more aggressive and went after wolves or went

0:23:49.080 --> 0:23:52.760
<v Speaker 1>to go fight wolves when wolves are around, they died out,

0:23:53.320 --> 0:23:57.000
<v Speaker 1>which left just the timid ones, right. Yeah, so coyotes.

0:23:57.119 --> 0:24:00.240
<v Speaker 1>That's why you won't fighting coyotes that are super rest

0:24:00.280 --> 0:24:05.800
<v Speaker 1>of these days, because in order to survive the wolf Challenge. Uh,

0:24:05.920 --> 0:24:09.200
<v Speaker 1>there's another good band name. The Challenge is an amazing

0:24:09.240 --> 0:24:11.040
<v Speaker 1>band that's not bad. There's a lot of wolf band

0:24:11.160 --> 0:24:16.679
<v Speaker 1>zoh Will Parade and wolf Mother other Wolves. That's not

0:24:16.720 --> 0:24:18.600
<v Speaker 1>the name of the band of other wolves. There might

0:24:18.640 --> 0:24:21.159
<v Speaker 1>be it could be. Um. Yeah, so those those are

0:24:21.160 --> 0:24:23.360
<v Speaker 1>the ones that stuck around. Uh. And like we said,

0:24:23.440 --> 0:24:26.920
<v Speaker 1>cooties are that's just another example of how bad they

0:24:26.920 --> 0:24:32.960
<v Speaker 1>want to survive. UM. These days, they are listed as

0:24:33.040 --> 0:24:37.320
<v Speaker 1>a species of Least concern, which means don't we don't

0:24:37.320 --> 0:24:40.760
<v Speaker 1>have to do anything nothing, no conservation efforts whatsoever. The

0:24:40.840 --> 0:24:46.880
<v Speaker 1>only conservation effort that has been uh hung on coyotes

0:24:47.640 --> 0:24:49.960
<v Speaker 1>is that there's a law that says we we are

0:24:50.000 --> 0:24:52.720
<v Speaker 1>not allowed to drive them to extinction, which is a

0:24:52.760 --> 0:24:56.520
<v Speaker 1>reversal of original policies. We'll see, should we go ahead

0:24:56.520 --> 0:24:59.680
<v Speaker 1>and talk about that. So, yeah, there was a policy,

0:25:00.720 --> 0:25:03.560
<v Speaker 1>uh when was it in the nineteen thirties, starting in

0:25:03.560 --> 0:25:06.520
<v Speaker 1>the nineteenth century, I think, okay, where they basically said,

0:25:07.400 --> 0:25:10.040
<v Speaker 1>I mean a lot of it was sensationalist journalism, but

0:25:10.400 --> 0:25:13.320
<v Speaker 1>that basically that coyotes were the scourge of the earth

0:25:13.840 --> 0:25:16.280
<v Speaker 1>and they will kill every chicken and every sheep on

0:25:16.359 --> 0:25:19.080
<v Speaker 1>your and every cow and your property and your horses,

0:25:19.119 --> 0:25:21.320
<v Speaker 1>and we gotta get rid of them all. Yeah. So

0:25:21.480 --> 0:25:26.320
<v Speaker 1>basically it was a response to um Anglo American ranchers,

0:25:26.840 --> 0:25:31.679
<v Speaker 1>well actually any American ranchers moving westward, UM farming cattle

0:25:31.760 --> 0:25:34.439
<v Speaker 1>and sheep and all that um. And they were just

0:25:34.480 --> 0:25:37.640
<v Speaker 1>being predated on by wolves. So really they went after

0:25:37.720 --> 0:25:41.960
<v Speaker 1>wolves first, and they were really successful at almost driving

0:25:42.000 --> 0:25:45.679
<v Speaker 1>all wolves to extinction because wolves hunting packs, and so

0:25:45.720 --> 0:25:48.720
<v Speaker 1>if you kill enough wolves, they don't have enough wolves

0:25:48.760 --> 0:25:50.880
<v Speaker 1>to hunt in that pack any longer, and the remaining

0:25:50.920 --> 0:25:54.280
<v Speaker 1>survivors starved to death. Right, So they really worked at

0:25:54.640 --> 0:25:57.440
<v Speaker 1>getting rid of wolves, and it was really effective. Coyotes

0:25:57.440 --> 0:26:01.440
<v Speaker 1>were less effective, but they started the coyotes started preying

0:26:01.480 --> 0:26:04.560
<v Speaker 1>on the um the prey that the wolves were no

0:26:04.640 --> 0:26:07.639
<v Speaker 1>longer around to prey on. So they went after coyotes

0:26:07.680 --> 0:26:10.680
<v Speaker 1>and they went after him big time. They killed hundreds

0:26:10.720 --> 0:26:13.840
<v Speaker 1>of thousands, millions and millions and millions of coyotes over

0:26:13.880 --> 0:26:18.200
<v Speaker 1>the years with like sponsored I think they uh, they said, Congress,

0:26:18.200 --> 0:26:20.480
<v Speaker 1>give us ten million dollars for the next ten years

0:26:20.920 --> 0:26:23.600
<v Speaker 1>and we'll take care of them all right. And about

0:26:23.680 --> 0:26:29.080
<v Speaker 1>the same time, so that was the Biological Survey the

0:26:29.119 --> 0:26:34.119
<v Speaker 1>Eradication Methods Laboratory of the Bureau of Biological Survey. Um.

0:26:34.359 --> 0:26:36.639
<v Speaker 1>They basically said, we're going to start coming up with

0:26:36.640 --> 0:26:40.439
<v Speaker 1>strict nine pills and like um little misters that shoot

0:26:40.680 --> 0:26:44.560
<v Speaker 1>um cyanide in the coyotes face. And they were lacing

0:26:44.840 --> 0:26:47.600
<v Speaker 1>carcasses with all this poison and they were killing off

0:26:47.760 --> 0:26:50.280
<v Speaker 1>all sorts of other animals too, but no one cared

0:26:50.480 --> 0:26:54.320
<v Speaker 1>because everyone hated the coyotes so much that that they

0:26:54.359 --> 0:26:57.000
<v Speaker 1>just didn't care how many other animals died, just as

0:26:57.000 --> 0:26:59.359
<v Speaker 1>long as we were getting rid of the coyotes. But

0:26:59.440 --> 0:27:02.480
<v Speaker 1>around that time biologists started to be like, wait a minute,

0:27:02.520 --> 0:27:05.840
<v Speaker 1>I'm not entirely certain it's a good idea to get

0:27:06.000 --> 0:27:08.960
<v Speaker 1>rid of predators or any kind of animal that we

0:27:09.000 --> 0:27:11.159
<v Speaker 1>find a nuisance, Like, that's probably not the way we

0:27:11.200 --> 0:27:14.000
<v Speaker 1>should be doing things. Yeah. And it also coincided with

0:27:14.280 --> 0:27:18.959
<v Speaker 1>um sort of an anti poison movement where people were like,

0:27:18.960 --> 0:27:22.080
<v Speaker 1>wait a minute, maybe we shouldn't be putting poison all

0:27:22.119 --> 0:27:25.400
<v Speaker 1>over our forests for just any old animal to die

0:27:25.440 --> 0:27:27.320
<v Speaker 1>if it comes near it. Yeah, And that was the

0:27:27.400 --> 0:27:29.439
<v Speaker 1>around the thirties, at the beginning of the thirties. But

0:27:29.600 --> 0:27:32.720
<v Speaker 1>the the the government said no, we're getting rid of

0:27:33.000 --> 0:27:36.320
<v Speaker 1>We're getting rid of coyotes. The ranchers interests are above

0:27:36.560 --> 0:27:41.280
<v Speaker 1>the coyotes interests. Yeah, big money, you know, talking right.

0:27:41.400 --> 0:27:43.560
<v Speaker 1>So not only did they poison them, they would shoot

0:27:43.600 --> 0:27:47.080
<v Speaker 1>them from airplanes and helicopters and still today apparently killed

0:27:47.080 --> 0:27:49.359
<v Speaker 1>tens of thousands of coyotes by shooting at them from

0:27:49.720 --> 0:27:53.439
<v Speaker 1>helicopters like taxpayer funded programs do that. Yeah, they they

0:27:53.520 --> 0:27:56.359
<v Speaker 1>definitely are still culling coyotes and cooties are still giving

0:27:56.400 --> 0:28:00.080
<v Speaker 1>them a little skinny paw middle finger. Right. So I

0:28:00.119 --> 0:28:04.560
<v Speaker 1>have the seventies Richard Nixon apparently banned the use of poisons,

0:28:04.600 --> 0:28:08.160
<v Speaker 1>had no idea about that, signed the Endangered Species Act

0:28:08.200 --> 0:28:11.120
<v Speaker 1>of nineteen seventy three, and that gave the coyotes enough

0:28:11.160 --> 0:28:13.720
<v Speaker 1>breathing room to basically say, Okay, we're not going to

0:28:13.800 --> 0:28:18.280
<v Speaker 1>go extinct. But here's the thing. Because we were so

0:28:18.320 --> 0:28:21.679
<v Speaker 1>successful at wiping out wolves, the coyotes, which have been

0:28:21.720 --> 0:28:27.480
<v Speaker 1>limited almost exclusively to the southwestern United States sir to

0:28:27.520 --> 0:28:31.680
<v Speaker 1>spread and where the wolves had once been, Coyotes started

0:28:31.680 --> 0:28:34.520
<v Speaker 1>popping up in places they had never been seen before,

0:28:35.119 --> 0:28:38.240
<v Speaker 1>southeastern United States. There, They've been spotted in Central America

0:28:38.240 --> 0:28:40.560
<v Speaker 1>at this point. They were found in nineteen forty on

0:28:40.640 --> 0:28:44.280
<v Speaker 1>the Apostle Islands in Wisconsin, which is, at least from

0:28:44.280 --> 0:28:47.480
<v Speaker 1>what I could tell, half a mile swim from the mainland.

0:28:48.200 --> 0:28:50.880
<v Speaker 1>And apparently they're pretty good swimmers too. Um. And then

0:28:50.920 --> 0:28:53.120
<v Speaker 1>they started to move into the suburbs, and then they

0:28:53.120 --> 0:28:55.760
<v Speaker 1>started to move into the cities, and now today, there's

0:28:55.760 --> 0:28:59.959
<v Speaker 1>a guy at Ohio State named Stanley Girt who specializes

0:29:00.080 --> 0:29:05.720
<v Speaker 1>in studying coyotes in Chicago. Downtown Chicago has hundreds of

0:29:05.760 --> 0:29:09.280
<v Speaker 1>coyotes living in alleyways and crevasses and all sorts of

0:29:09.280 --> 0:29:11.960
<v Speaker 1>places right out of sight of human beings. And they

0:29:12.000 --> 0:29:13.560
<v Speaker 1>just come out at night and they've learned how to

0:29:13.600 --> 0:29:16.960
<v Speaker 1>navigate traffic and just basically stay out of side. Oh,

0:29:17.000 --> 0:29:19.560
<v Speaker 1>if you look, if you just type in urban cooties

0:29:19.600 --> 0:29:22.560
<v Speaker 1>to your favorite search engine and looked under images, there

0:29:22.560 --> 0:29:25.600
<v Speaker 1>are pictures of coyotes like in the middle of like

0:29:25.640 --> 0:29:29.840
<v Speaker 1>strip malls and with you know, casinos behind them, and

0:29:30.320 --> 0:29:32.840
<v Speaker 1>like they're just everywhere. Like I'm surprised I haven't seen

0:29:32.840 --> 0:29:34.640
<v Speaker 1>one in Times Square at this point. Wasn't it in

0:29:34.720 --> 0:29:37.760
<v Speaker 1>Heat where they show that coyote like crossing the street

0:29:37.840 --> 0:29:40.000
<v Speaker 1>or crossing the highway? I haven't seen that so long.

0:29:40.040 --> 0:29:43.160
<v Speaker 1>I'm pretty sure it's in Heat. Good movie. Should we

0:29:43.160 --> 0:29:45.760
<v Speaker 1>take another break, Let's do it all right? More coy

0:29:45.840 --> 0:30:09.040
<v Speaker 1>out speak right after this. So just just to point

0:30:09.040 --> 0:30:11.000
<v Speaker 1>this out one more time, if you remember from our

0:30:11.080 --> 0:30:15.320
<v Speaker 1>Lyme Disease episode, we've concluded that if we had no

0:30:15.360 --> 0:30:18.560
<v Speaker 1>wiped out wolves, ticks, wouldn't have been able to take

0:30:18.600 --> 0:30:21.800
<v Speaker 1>over and expand because the dear population wouldn't have exploded.

0:30:22.440 --> 0:30:25.000
<v Speaker 1>There would not be coyotes in Chicago right now if

0:30:25.040 --> 0:30:28.320
<v Speaker 1>the wolf population was stable in the United States or

0:30:28.400 --> 0:30:31.800
<v Speaker 1>North America. Yeah, and coyotes also, we're able to live

0:30:32.280 --> 0:30:34.880
<v Speaker 1>in and are able to live in urban environments, whereas

0:30:34.920 --> 0:30:38.320
<v Speaker 1>wolves could not. Oh no way. So they really were

0:30:38.360 --> 0:30:42.520
<v Speaker 1>basically like, hey, we'll we'll go where the wolves won't go.

0:30:42.640 --> 0:30:44.920
<v Speaker 1>We'll eat what the wolves won't eat. We'll hunt by

0:30:44.960 --> 0:30:49.320
<v Speaker 1>ourselves because the wolves can't and uh, look at us,

0:30:49.600 --> 0:30:52.360
<v Speaker 1>we're gonna we're gonna thrive. Yeah. And without wolves, there's

0:30:52.400 --> 0:30:55.520
<v Speaker 1>nothing to to keep them in check, to keep their

0:30:55.560 --> 0:31:01.280
<v Speaker 1>population in check. Angry facebookers. That's it basically, So that

0:31:01.320 --> 0:31:03.960
<v Speaker 1>whole eradication campaign has been put to the side. There's

0:31:03.960 --> 0:31:07.560
<v Speaker 1>definitely still lots of coyotes that are killed every year. Yeah.

0:31:07.600 --> 0:31:09.320
<v Speaker 1>I think between two thousand and six and two thousand

0:31:09.360 --> 0:31:12.400
<v Speaker 1>eleven they killed more than half a million coyotes legally.

0:31:12.760 --> 0:31:14.600
<v Speaker 1>I saw that there's a half a million that are

0:31:14.640 --> 0:31:18.720
<v Speaker 1>killed a year still, Yeah, like one a minute every year.

0:31:19.800 --> 0:31:22.239
<v Speaker 1>I've also seen thirty five thousand. I don't know if

0:31:22.280 --> 0:31:25.200
<v Speaker 1>it's just certain divisions are responsible for like half a

0:31:25.200 --> 0:31:27.640
<v Speaker 1>million or maybe certain years they ramp up the efforts

0:31:27.640 --> 0:31:29.800
<v Speaker 1>more than others. I don't know, but they're there are

0:31:29.800 --> 0:31:33.120
<v Speaker 1>definitely still a tremendous amount of coyote deaths. But as

0:31:33.160 --> 0:31:38.200
<v Speaker 1>we've seen, coyotes have been um extremely successful in the

0:31:38.200 --> 0:31:45.040
<v Speaker 1>face of this extermination campaign. Um, just by by reproducing

0:31:45.840 --> 0:31:49.800
<v Speaker 1>depending on the local population. Yeah. Yeah, And if you're

0:31:49.800 --> 0:31:52.440
<v Speaker 1>a rancher, you you don't have to be a part

0:31:52.440 --> 0:31:55.080
<v Speaker 1>of some program like you're you're taking care of things

0:31:55.120 --> 0:32:00.760
<v Speaker 1>in the rancher way, which is traps, guns, yeah, poison. Yeah.

0:32:00.800 --> 0:32:04.920
<v Speaker 1>There's no laws protecting coyotes whatsover. Again, the only law

0:32:04.960 --> 0:32:06.920
<v Speaker 1>as far as I know, I think it's part of

0:32:06.920 --> 0:32:10.200
<v Speaker 1>the Endangered Species Act that says we're not allowed to

0:32:10.280 --> 0:32:13.480
<v Speaker 1>drive coyotes to extinction. But that's it. You can kill

0:32:13.520 --> 0:32:16.160
<v Speaker 1>a coyote. The only things keeping you from shooting a

0:32:16.200 --> 0:32:19.920
<v Speaker 1>coyote like in city limits or gun ordinances. Basically, you

0:32:19.960 --> 0:32:23.720
<v Speaker 1>can kill a coyote anyway you want. Um. But here's

0:32:23.720 --> 0:32:30.280
<v Speaker 1>the thing, go visit in the hospital. Um. But the

0:32:30.960 --> 0:32:33.280
<v Speaker 1>thing is is what they're starting to figure out now

0:32:33.400 --> 0:32:37.240
<v Speaker 1>is because they're so successful that you don't actually want

0:32:37.280 --> 0:32:41.080
<v Speaker 1>to kill them. Killing them has this ripple effect through

0:32:41.120 --> 0:32:45.080
<v Speaker 1>their society where they start reproducing more. And here's the

0:32:45.120 --> 0:32:48.440
<v Speaker 1>other thing. If the coyote is still not if it's

0:32:48.440 --> 0:32:51.280
<v Speaker 1>not acting aggressively towards humans, if it hasn't started to

0:32:51.320 --> 0:32:54.240
<v Speaker 1>take pets, if you just know it's in the area

0:32:54.280 --> 0:32:57.240
<v Speaker 1>but it's trying to keep its distance, you may actually

0:32:57.280 --> 0:33:00.440
<v Speaker 1>be better off with that coyote because if you get

0:33:00.520 --> 0:33:03.560
<v Speaker 1>rid of that coyote, another coyote is going to move in,

0:33:03.960 --> 0:33:06.400
<v Speaker 1>and that coyote might be much more aggressive than the

0:33:06.440 --> 0:33:09.160
<v Speaker 1>last one you just got rid of. Like, if you've

0:33:09.160 --> 0:33:12.160
<v Speaker 1>got a decent neighbor, maybe that's good enough. So that's

0:33:12.240 --> 0:33:14.880
<v Speaker 1>kind of like the idea that's dawning over people with

0:33:15.000 --> 0:33:19.240
<v Speaker 1>coyote management is coyotes aren't going anywhere. They're staying put,

0:33:19.880 --> 0:33:21.760
<v Speaker 1>and the best you can hope for is one that

0:33:21.880 --> 0:33:24.840
<v Speaker 1>keeps this distance and is afraid of humans. Yeah, which

0:33:24.880 --> 0:33:29.120
<v Speaker 1>is generally what's going on in urban areas. Uh, when

0:33:29.200 --> 0:33:31.440
<v Speaker 1>we're talking about ranchers. The reason they're doing this is

0:33:31.480 --> 0:33:35.560
<v Speaker 1>not just because they hate coyotes, is that they lose

0:33:35.600 --> 0:33:39.840
<v Speaker 1>a lot of um animals due to uh, these predators

0:33:39.920 --> 0:33:43.960
<v Speaker 1>they that just sounded so mean. These predators. Uh, there's

0:33:44.000 --> 0:33:45.840
<v Speaker 1>it's hard to get good stats. But the US d

0:33:46.120 --> 0:33:49.440
<v Speaker 1>d A said in two thousand fifteen there was self reporting,

0:33:49.440 --> 0:33:51.800
<v Speaker 1>which you always got to kind of wonder of thirty

0:33:51.840 --> 0:33:54.920
<v Speaker 1>three thousand a little more in change of adult sheep,

0:33:55.760 --> 0:34:01.480
<v Speaker 1>four thousand lambs lost to coyotes, and again that self reported,

0:34:01.560 --> 0:34:03.640
<v Speaker 1>So take it with a grain of salt. But there

0:34:03.680 --> 0:34:06.040
<v Speaker 1>they do lose a lot of animals and chickens and

0:34:06.080 --> 0:34:09.479
<v Speaker 1>things like that. I've gone on my soapbox before about

0:34:09.560 --> 0:34:12.600
<v Speaker 1>keeping your cats inside. I'm not gonna do that again

0:34:12.640 --> 0:34:15.520
<v Speaker 1>except to say keep your cats inside. Yeah, if you have,

0:34:15.719 --> 0:34:17.640
<v Speaker 1>like you know, you're on the fence about keeping your

0:34:17.680 --> 0:34:20.640
<v Speaker 1>cats inside, you just watch some of the videos that

0:34:20.680 --> 0:34:23.600
<v Speaker 1>you be seen, yeah, or just cats being taken. Do

0:34:23.680 --> 0:34:26.520
<v Speaker 1>I want my cat to live several years longer? Because

0:34:26.560 --> 0:34:29.520
<v Speaker 1>the statistics show that outdoor cats don't live as long.

0:34:29.760 --> 0:34:32.960
<v Speaker 1>And not just that, um, not just with cats too,

0:34:33.000 --> 0:34:36.239
<v Speaker 1>but also with dogs if you if they're coyotes in

0:34:36.239 --> 0:34:38.000
<v Speaker 1>the area, and there's a really good chance there are

0:34:38.080 --> 0:34:41.080
<v Speaker 1>no matter where you live in the US, you um

0:34:41.280 --> 0:34:43.839
<v Speaker 1>do not You should not leave your small dog, in

0:34:43.880 --> 0:34:48.279
<v Speaker 1>particular outside unattended. You basically let them out, hang out

0:34:48.280 --> 0:34:50.280
<v Speaker 1>with them, and then let them back in. You definitely

0:34:50.280 --> 0:34:52.799
<v Speaker 1>don't leave them out at dusk or at dawn by

0:34:52.800 --> 0:34:56.239
<v Speaker 1>themselves or overnight. That's right. Uh, we said that you

0:34:56.280 --> 0:34:58.160
<v Speaker 1>don't need to worry too much about being attacked as

0:34:58.160 --> 0:35:01.360
<v Speaker 1>a human. There were a couple of kind of grizzly cases.

0:35:02.280 --> 0:35:04.960
<v Speaker 1>One that's just very difficult to even talk about, frankly.

0:35:05.000 --> 0:35:08.000
<v Speaker 1>In nine, little three year old girl was dragged from

0:35:08.000 --> 0:35:12.279
<v Speaker 1>her driveway in California and the dad did rescue her,

0:35:12.400 --> 0:35:15.200
<v Speaker 1>but she died as a result of her injuries from

0:35:15.239 --> 0:35:18.560
<v Speaker 1>that fracas. In two thousand nine, there was a really

0:35:18.600 --> 0:35:21.680
<v Speaker 1>strange thing in Canada where a nineteen year old woman

0:35:22.120 --> 0:35:25.680
<v Speaker 1>was stalked and killed by at least two coyotes while

0:35:25.760 --> 0:35:28.160
<v Speaker 1>hiking in the middle of the day. And this is

0:35:28.360 --> 0:35:32.799
<v Speaker 1>apparently the only, like only adult human killed by coyotes

0:35:32.880 --> 0:35:36.080
<v Speaker 1>on record. So yeah, and the only explanation for that

0:35:36.080 --> 0:35:38.000
<v Speaker 1>that I could possibly come up with is that she

0:35:38.080 --> 0:35:41.120
<v Speaker 1>was around their den. It was around their pup raising time,

0:35:41.680 --> 0:35:44.160
<v Speaker 1>right say, spring and summer is a pretty bad time

0:35:44.160 --> 0:35:47.520
<v Speaker 1>to be around, getting real defensive of their turf. And

0:35:47.560 --> 0:35:51.640
<v Speaker 1>then thirdly that those were um mated with wolves. Uh.

0:35:51.760 --> 0:35:54.560
<v Speaker 1>Interesting because when the coyotes will mate with dogs, they

0:35:54.560 --> 0:35:57.799
<v Speaker 1>will mate with wolves. It's not like super widespread, but

0:35:57.920 --> 0:36:00.960
<v Speaker 1>it does happen in producing coy dogs and coy wolves.

0:36:00.960 --> 0:36:04.279
<v Speaker 1>But the coy wolves in particular can be much more

0:36:04.320 --> 0:36:08.799
<v Speaker 1>aggressive than your standard coyote. Yeah, so I wonder if

0:36:08.840 --> 0:36:11.840
<v Speaker 1>those three factors played a role in it. Probably it

0:36:11.880 --> 0:36:14.000
<v Speaker 1>was definitely an outlier. It's it's very I mean, it's

0:36:14.000 --> 0:36:16.160
<v Speaker 1>sad no matter what did that girl also, she was

0:36:16.200 --> 0:36:18.160
<v Speaker 1>like an up and coming country singer, like on the

0:36:18.239 --> 0:36:23.040
<v Speaker 1>verge of breaking out and Taylor Mitchell. Yeah yeah. So

0:36:23.360 --> 0:36:28.120
<v Speaker 1>um they say, like we said that these kill couty

0:36:28.200 --> 0:36:31.480
<v Speaker 1>programs don't even work that well and that there is

0:36:31.880 --> 0:36:34.719
<v Speaker 1>uh their statistics to back up the fact that, um,

0:36:34.800 --> 0:36:39.399
<v Speaker 1>non lethal methods of county control or more effective, which

0:36:39.400 --> 0:36:43.680
<v Speaker 1>we're talking about scaring them, like wind chimes and air horns.

0:36:44.160 --> 0:36:46.600
<v Speaker 1>They're really skitty and jumpy, So if you make a

0:36:46.640 --> 0:36:48.560
<v Speaker 1>lot of noise in front of a county they're probably

0:36:48.560 --> 0:36:51.759
<v Speaker 1>gonna bolt. Yeah, it's called hazing. Yeah, and you don't

0:36:51.800 --> 0:36:57.080
<v Speaker 1>like anytime you see a coyote around your area really anywhere,

0:36:57.160 --> 0:36:59.759
<v Speaker 1>just be a good neighbor. You want to haze them,

0:37:00.520 --> 0:37:02.839
<v Speaker 1>do you not just let it happen? Don't just let

0:37:02.880 --> 0:37:05.360
<v Speaker 1>it pass by? Like, you need to take that opportunity

0:37:05.360 --> 0:37:09.520
<v Speaker 1>to haze them, to keep them feeling insecure, more secure. Right,

0:37:10.000 --> 0:37:13.759
<v Speaker 1>The more secure uh a coyote feels, the more the

0:37:13.840 --> 0:37:17.560
<v Speaker 1>more um audacious, embrazen, they're going to become coming into

0:37:17.600 --> 0:37:19.759
<v Speaker 1>your yard trying to take your your dog or your cat.

0:37:20.200 --> 0:37:22.279
<v Speaker 1>So you want to haze them every chance you get

0:37:22.520 --> 0:37:24.680
<v Speaker 1>so that they know to stay over there. This is

0:37:24.760 --> 0:37:27.400
<v Speaker 1>their turf, this is your turf. Right, So if you

0:37:27.440 --> 0:37:30.000
<v Speaker 1>have an umbrella, you want to open the umbrella. This

0:37:30.080 --> 0:37:34.640
<v Speaker 1>says to pick up your small dog. Um, I've also

0:37:34.680 --> 0:37:37.279
<v Speaker 1>read right, I've also read you don't want to do

0:37:37.280 --> 0:37:39.239
<v Speaker 1>that because you make yourself small when you do that,

0:37:39.400 --> 0:37:41.400
<v Speaker 1>and you when when when you're hazing a kyote, you

0:37:41.440 --> 0:37:43.279
<v Speaker 1>want to make yourself as big as possible. What do

0:37:43.280 --> 0:37:45.799
<v Speaker 1>you mean yourself? When you squat down to pick up

0:37:45.800 --> 0:37:48.759
<v Speaker 1>your dog, you seem smaller than you do standing up

0:37:48.800 --> 0:37:51.600
<v Speaker 1>with your arms spread, but do it very quickly. Well,

0:37:52.000 --> 0:37:53.520
<v Speaker 1>But the better thing to do is keep your dog

0:37:53.560 --> 0:37:58.399
<v Speaker 1>on a non flexi lead, like a straight leash. It's

0:37:58.400 --> 0:38:00.840
<v Speaker 1>no more than like six ft and things. Just keep it,

0:38:00.960 --> 0:38:02.640
<v Speaker 1>just pull it back close to you while you're like

0:38:02.719 --> 0:38:06.160
<v Speaker 1>waving your arm and shouting at the kyote to go away. Yeah.

0:38:06.239 --> 0:38:08.280
<v Speaker 1>And I also thought it was funny that Ed pointed

0:38:08.280 --> 0:38:10.200
<v Speaker 1>out that like even if you have a big dog

0:38:10.280 --> 0:38:14.680
<v Speaker 1>that could like kill a coyote, Like, is someone gonna say, like, oh,

0:38:14.719 --> 0:38:16.800
<v Speaker 1>I think you can take them, go get him zeus?

0:38:18.400 --> 0:38:20.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah maybe not, some people would know. You never know.

0:38:21.120 --> 0:38:25.560
<v Speaker 1>Have you seen those Irish wolfhounds. M sure they're like

0:38:25.600 --> 0:38:29.400
<v Speaker 1>the largest, the largest dogs. Yeah, wolfhounds. They're like bread

0:38:29.440 --> 0:38:32.759
<v Speaker 1>to take on wolves, So they could take on a coyote.

0:38:33.080 --> 0:38:35.319
<v Speaker 1>I could see that having that temptation be like, yeah,

0:38:35.360 --> 0:38:38.440
<v Speaker 1>my dog really could take on this coyote. Maybe what

0:38:38.560 --> 0:38:42.200
<v Speaker 1>did I? Oh? No, that was dingoes that petted in Australia.

0:38:43.120 --> 0:38:45.120
<v Speaker 1>Of course, that they were coyotes is not North America.

0:38:46.120 --> 0:38:49.239
<v Speaker 1>But dingoes were a little they weren't dogs either, And

0:38:49.239 --> 0:38:51.839
<v Speaker 1>and it was like foxes No, I mean they look

0:38:51.920 --> 0:38:53.880
<v Speaker 1>like dogs, but when you're around them, and this was

0:38:53.960 --> 0:38:56.000
<v Speaker 1>at a place where you can hold koalas and stuff

0:38:56.040 --> 0:38:59.120
<v Speaker 1>like that, it was obvious that it's not a dog. No,

0:38:59.200 --> 0:39:02.399
<v Speaker 1>they're wild dogs right, Well not I don't even think

0:39:02.400 --> 0:39:06.480
<v Speaker 1>they're wild dogs. Um or maybe I mean they're they're

0:39:06.480 --> 0:39:09.920
<v Speaker 1>totally related. But I just remember getting the sense um

0:39:09.960 --> 0:39:11.920
<v Speaker 1>Scotty and I both did my friend that was with me,

0:39:12.600 --> 0:39:17.520
<v Speaker 1>um whom you know, they just there was a certain

0:39:19.040 --> 0:39:20.960
<v Speaker 1>the way they carried themselves. And I'm just like, you're

0:39:21.000 --> 0:39:24.560
<v Speaker 1>not a dog. It literally is a dog Canus lupus dingo.

0:39:24.719 --> 0:39:28.759
<v Speaker 1>So it's a subspecies of like dogs. Yeah, but what

0:39:28.880 --> 0:39:31.160
<v Speaker 1>I was saying, not a dog, like not a domesticated dog,

0:39:32.120 --> 0:39:34.319
<v Speaker 1>wild dog. Yeah, you could just tell the difference. And

0:39:34.400 --> 0:39:37.720
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure the same is true with coyotes because coit dogs,

0:39:37.760 --> 0:39:42.200
<v Speaker 1>like you said, are things. Look at that cute little dingo. Um.

0:39:42.360 --> 0:39:47.000
<v Speaker 1>Coit dogs are in kit puppies are super adorable and

0:39:47.120 --> 0:39:50.160
<v Speaker 1>technically you can raise one and even a full county

0:39:50.239 --> 0:39:51.680
<v Speaker 1>if you get it as a puppy, you could have

0:39:51.719 --> 0:39:54.919
<v Speaker 1>it as a pet. It's not a good idea because

0:39:54.920 --> 0:39:59.120
<v Speaker 1>they are coyotes and the cody's gonna coyote. H it

0:39:59.200 --> 0:40:01.920
<v Speaker 1>has happened there or you know, you see those eccentric

0:40:01.920 --> 0:40:05.000
<v Speaker 1>people out there that have like a pet coyote. It's

0:40:05.040 --> 0:40:08.919
<v Speaker 1>the thing, but it's just not a good idea. They're unpredictable. Yeah,

0:40:09.320 --> 0:40:14.040
<v Speaker 1>you don't want to like get a cat companion for him.

0:40:14.120 --> 0:40:18.760
<v Speaker 1>Um in the United States. So uh, the coyotes image

0:40:18.800 --> 0:40:23.160
<v Speaker 1>has really gone through some weird transitions. Early on had

0:40:23.200 --> 0:40:27.640
<v Speaker 1>a really bad reputation UM and apparently was made way

0:40:27.640 --> 0:40:29.880
<v Speaker 1>worse by Mark Twain when he wrote rough in It

0:40:30.000 --> 0:40:33.239
<v Speaker 1>in seventy two. There were a few pages dedicated to

0:40:33.280 --> 0:40:36.399
<v Speaker 1>how lowly a coyote is, and everybody was like, yeah,

0:40:36.600 --> 0:40:39.560
<v Speaker 1>we hate coyotes from that point on. But that actually

0:40:39.600 --> 0:40:44.200
<v Speaker 1>followed in partially this view that had been around for

0:40:44.440 --> 0:40:49.200
<v Speaker 1>ages that Native Americans had of coyotes, not necessarily that

0:40:49.280 --> 0:40:51.880
<v Speaker 1>it was a lowly animal, but that it was a trickster,

0:40:52.760 --> 0:40:56.319
<v Speaker 1>kind of like a brare rabbit type. UM. But then

0:40:56.360 --> 0:40:59.799
<v Speaker 1>he was also in some with some some groups like

0:40:59.840 --> 0:41:03.040
<v Speaker 1>the Creator God, the Creator Deity. There's all sorts of

0:41:03.080 --> 0:41:06.840
<v Speaker 1>different roles that the coyote played in Native American mythologies,

0:41:06.840 --> 0:41:09.960
<v Speaker 1>because there were so many different Native American mythologies. But

0:41:10.040 --> 0:41:15.399
<v Speaker 1>it was very prominent in Southwestern tribes UM mythologies, and

0:41:15.560 --> 0:41:20.719
<v Speaker 1>very frequently as a trickster, very frequently. Yeah, good stuff. Yeah,

0:41:20.840 --> 0:41:23.719
<v Speaker 1>I don't have anything else. I don't believe I do either.

0:41:23.760 --> 0:41:28.160
<v Speaker 1>If you see a coyote, Hayes, it really shouldn't kill it, like,

0:41:28.400 --> 0:41:31.120
<v Speaker 1>make sure that it's kept on its feet and insecure

0:41:32.239 --> 0:41:34.759
<v Speaker 1>your Petzil. Thank you. If you want to know more

0:41:34.760 --> 0:41:38.040
<v Speaker 1>about coyotes, go look up a coyote standing in a

0:41:38.120 --> 0:41:41.080
<v Speaker 1>tree and that will really set you off. Since I

0:41:41.120 --> 0:41:45.560
<v Speaker 1>said that it's time for listener mail, I'm gonna call

0:41:45.640 --> 0:41:50.920
<v Speaker 1>this grizzly trigger warning email. Has to do with our

0:41:50.960 --> 0:41:54.120
<v Speaker 1>body under the Bed episode, So you know, if you're

0:41:54.120 --> 0:41:57.600
<v Speaker 1>not into listening to this kind of stuff, tune it out. Hey,

0:41:57.600 --> 0:41:59.640
<v Speaker 1>guys listening to the body into the Bed episode, and

0:42:00.080 --> 0:42:03.440
<v Speaker 1>was reminded of a similar awful case in Jacksonville, Florida,

0:42:03.520 --> 0:42:07.480
<v Speaker 1>where I live. In my neighborhood, an eight year old girl, Maddie,

0:42:07.480 --> 0:42:11.040
<v Speaker 1>disappeared while playing outside one afternoon and year yard her yard.

0:42:11.360 --> 0:42:13.840
<v Speaker 1>Long story short. Her neighbor Josh Phillips, who was fourteen

0:42:13.880 --> 0:42:16.440
<v Speaker 1>at the time, was playing with her and accidentally hit

0:42:16.440 --> 0:42:19.520
<v Speaker 1>her in the head, she said, with a baseball bat

0:42:19.560 --> 0:42:22.640
<v Speaker 1>injuring her. I looked into this. Apparently the story was

0:42:23.360 --> 0:42:25.920
<v Speaker 1>she threw the ball, he hit the ball, and the

0:42:25.920 --> 0:42:28.840
<v Speaker 1>ball hit her in the face. She started bleeding and crying.

0:42:30.040 --> 0:42:32.280
<v Speaker 1>He and this is me talking now, not the email.

0:42:32.360 --> 0:42:34.960
<v Speaker 1>He freaked out because his dad was an abusive alcoholic

0:42:35.440 --> 0:42:37.200
<v Speaker 1>and he was afraid his dad was gonna come home

0:42:37.200 --> 0:42:40.600
<v Speaker 1>and see what he'd done, so he panicked back to

0:42:40.600 --> 0:42:43.920
<v Speaker 1>the email. He ended up killing her to keep her

0:42:44.000 --> 0:42:47.200
<v Speaker 1>quiet and stashing her body in the cavern beneath his

0:42:47.280 --> 0:42:50.719
<v Speaker 1>water bed on the second floor of his house, and

0:42:50.800 --> 0:42:53.280
<v Speaker 1>the eight days that follow, a massive community effort ensued

0:42:53.320 --> 0:42:57.480
<v Speaker 1>to locate her, and Josh, her murderer, even participated in this,

0:42:57.640 --> 0:43:00.239
<v Speaker 1>handing out flyers. He slept in that bed for seven

0:43:00.360 --> 0:43:02.719
<v Speaker 1>nights over her body. Police had even searched the home

0:43:02.760 --> 0:43:05.600
<v Speaker 1>several times, and the odor in his room was attributed

0:43:05.680 --> 0:43:08.560
<v Speaker 1>to many pet birds and cages he had and a

0:43:08.600 --> 0:43:12.839
<v Speaker 1>typical fourteen year old boy funk. Uh not a bad

0:43:12.880 --> 0:43:16.759
<v Speaker 1>band name either. She was discovered when they searched a

0:43:17.000 --> 0:43:21.279
<v Speaker 1>terrible four general boyfunk. Typical fourteen year old boyfunk. Well, no,

0:43:21.480 --> 0:43:24.839
<v Speaker 1>I just think boyfunk. Maybe none of that's good. I'd

0:43:24.840 --> 0:43:27.880
<v Speaker 1>take it all back. She was discovered when they searched

0:43:28.040 --> 0:43:31.360
<v Speaker 1>the home again and noticed a stain on the ceiling

0:43:31.400 --> 0:43:34.719
<v Speaker 1>on the floor below his room. Um, I thought it

0:43:34.760 --> 0:43:36.160
<v Speaker 1>was a blood stain. But I looked it up. I

0:43:36.160 --> 0:43:38.080
<v Speaker 1>think it was a leak from the waterbed and stained

0:43:38.640 --> 0:43:42.440
<v Speaker 1>and that fortuitously led to finding her. He remains in prison,

0:43:42.800 --> 0:43:44.880
<v Speaker 1>which has always been a big debate here when it

0:43:44.880 --> 0:43:49.680
<v Speaker 1>comes up for parole um. Just reason happened, m I

0:43:49.719 --> 0:43:51.880
<v Speaker 1>looked it up. I think this was in ninety eight

0:43:52.000 --> 0:43:54.480
<v Speaker 1>and he was fourteen. Wow. Wow, he's been in prison

0:43:54.520 --> 0:43:56.960
<v Speaker 1>the whole time. Huh. Yeah, and it was. It's a

0:43:57.080 --> 0:43:59.200
<v Speaker 1>very tough thing because you know, his father was an

0:43:59.239 --> 0:44:01.680
<v Speaker 1>abuse of alcohol. Like he reacted because he was afraid

0:44:01.680 --> 0:44:03.359
<v Speaker 1>that he was going to come home and find him out,

0:44:04.000 --> 0:44:06.439
<v Speaker 1>and freaked out and hit this girl with a baseball bat,

0:44:06.880 --> 0:44:08.920
<v Speaker 1>put her under the bed, and when he found that

0:44:08.960 --> 0:44:11.000
<v Speaker 1>she was still making noise, this gets really bad. He

0:44:11.040 --> 0:44:14.360
<v Speaker 1>stabbed her like eleven times and killed her. So it

0:44:14.520 --> 0:44:18.200
<v Speaker 1>is just a sad, sad, tragic case all the way around.

0:44:19.400 --> 0:44:22.000
<v Speaker 1>That is from Mary. She said, I love the show

0:44:22.000 --> 0:44:24.360
<v Speaker 1>and have my husband hooked now too. She said, the

0:44:24.360 --> 0:44:26.920
<v Speaker 1>trauma then emotions of those eight days is something I

0:44:26.920 --> 0:44:31.359
<v Speaker 1>will never ever forget. Yeah, very tough case. I don't

0:44:31.360 --> 0:44:33.879
<v Speaker 1>know if thanks as appropriate, Mary, but I can't think

0:44:33.880 --> 0:44:36.080
<v Speaker 1>of anything else to say. Yeah, I don't even know

0:44:36.080 --> 0:44:38.160
<v Speaker 1>why I decided to read that. That was really sort

0:44:38.200 --> 0:44:41.319
<v Speaker 1>of caught me, caught my attention. Yeah, I can see

0:44:41.320 --> 0:44:43.719
<v Speaker 1>how Chuck. Well, if you want to get in touch

0:44:43.760 --> 0:44:49.360
<v Speaker 1>with us like Mary did, don't. If you want to anyway,

0:44:49.400 --> 0:44:52.719
<v Speaker 1>you can send us an email to Stuff podcast did

0:44:52.719 --> 0:44:58.360
<v Speaker 1>i heeart radio dot com. Stuff You Should Know is

0:44:58.360 --> 0:45:00.719
<v Speaker 1>a production of I Heart Radio's How Stuff Works. For

0:45:00.800 --> 0:45:03.479
<v Speaker 1>more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app,

0:45:03.560 --> 0:45:06.160
<v Speaker 1>Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

0:45:06.680 --> 0:45:13.080
<v Speaker 1>M m hm hm