Speaker 1: Hello Vancouver, Hello Portland's we're going to be in your
Speaker 1: city's Sunday, March twenty nine, Monday, March Chuck, that's right,
Speaker 1: and this is Portland, Oregon. Since we've been to Portland, Maine.
Speaker 1: We need to specify now, Oh yeah, that's right. But
Speaker 1: they'd be weird to go from Vancouver to Portland, Maine.
Speaker 1: But yeah, we can't wait. We've been to both these towns.
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Speaker 1: live dot com. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a
Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, and
Speaker 1: welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark and there's your
Speaker 1: other host, Charles W. Chuck Bryant. There, there's Jerry Roland
Speaker 1: and our producer. This is Stuff you Should Know Coyote edition.
Speaker 1: So how are we going to pronounce it? I mean,
Speaker 1: it's coyote, but coyote's kind of fun, but you could
Speaker 1: also pronounce it coyote coyote. There's a lot of ways. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I say coyote, but I don't think that that's
Speaker 1: technically correct eating it's coyote. Maybe yet I think it's
Speaker 1: just swallowed my tongue. Uh. There's a lot of good
Speaker 1: band names in here, by the way, I noticed. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: i'll call them all out. Well, I'll call out the
Speaker 1: first one right away. Genus Canus. It's pretty good, okay. Uh,
Speaker 1: that is the where coyotes are members of the genus Canus. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and Canus includes all dogs, Yeah, jackals, dogs, wolves, uh,
Speaker 1: and dogs. That's why I said dogs. I know, but
Speaker 1: there's so many great dogs that you just gotta say
Speaker 1: it twice. Well, I don't want to short change the
Speaker 1: jackals of the world. Who likes jackals? Nobody likes jackals.
Speaker 1: That's right, you know, screw them right, say them once.
Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, let's go back and beep
Speaker 1: out the second time we said that name. But hey,
Speaker 1: one thing about this about family candidate, which all dogs
Speaker 1: belong to. It's a really old um family and it's
Speaker 1: native to North America. So like all those jackals, if
Speaker 1: you want to talk about them some more, that made
Speaker 1: it outside of North America. They started here they didn't
Speaker 1: come from anywhere else, started in North America. Coyotes as
Speaker 1: North American as apple Pie and Granny and Baseball and
Speaker 1: dogs and Dogs. We've done a lot of episodes that
Speaker 1: are dog related over the years, and I still haven't
Speaker 1: knocked out the one that I really want to do,
Speaker 1: which is the the first Dog, like the first domesticated dog.
Speaker 1: That'd be a good one. They made that movie, but
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if it had any truth to it whatsoever.
Speaker 1: Train Spotty. When that stuff happens, do you just say
Speaker 1: the first thing that came into your head? No, the
Speaker 1: first thing that came into my head was never cry Wolf.
Speaker 1: But I was like, that makes too much. I remember
Speaker 1: that movie that, Yeah, that was a good one. That
Speaker 1: was when we were kids, right Disney. It was a
Speaker 1: Disney jam, but I think it was like a little
Speaker 1: but it's scarier. Is there's something about it that made
Speaker 1: it like groundbreaking for Disney. I don't remember what it was, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I remember too. Uh. And then that that terrible looking
Speaker 1: Call of the Wild Thing is out? Now, why can't
Speaker 1: anybody stuff? Man? It's driving me crazy. Have you seen
Speaker 1: these spectrum ads with Ellen degenerous on them? Apparently they're
Speaker 1: just using c G I, Ellen, Because Ellen, if if
Speaker 1: it's not, I was making a joke. It's the weirdest
Speaker 1: makeup I've ever seen that actually makes her look c
Speaker 1: G I. But it looks so much like that, it's
Speaker 1: it seems likelier to me that it's a c G I. Ellen,
Speaker 1: And I don't understand why. Surely not proved me wrong? World. Well,
Speaker 1: I'm thinking now, if I'm Ellen and they say, hey,
Speaker 1: we want to choot a bunch of spots with you,
Speaker 1: we'll pay five million dollars, or we'll pay you three
Speaker 1: and a half million for your image likeness, you could
Speaker 1: stay at home. I would stay at home. I would travel,
Speaker 1: you would, sure, that's true? A million a half bucks? Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a lot of dough how would travel? Plus? Also,
Speaker 1: I mean, like curse spots in these spectrum commercials are
Speaker 1: so small and limited that it couldn't possibly take more
Speaker 1: than half of a day per spot. Yeah, and they
Speaker 1: and when you're a big star like that, you can
Speaker 1: dictate it. You can be like, sure, I'll do it.
Speaker 1: You've got me for two hours, right, you have to
Speaker 1: pay for the teleportation, that's right, you know, But it's
Speaker 1: so Yes, they called the wild thing to stop. Stop,
Speaker 1: everybody stop. Yeah. Of course maybe Harrison Ford was so
Speaker 1: stoned he didn't even realize it wasn't a real dog.
Speaker 1: God bless him. All right, So back to coyotes. There
Speaker 1: are they are. The scientific name is Canis Latran's barking dog. Sure, boy,
Speaker 1: they make a lot of noise. We'll get to at
Speaker 1: their nineteen. Subspecies generally has to do with their range,
Speaker 1: but sometimes it can be bigger or smaller, different kind
Speaker 1: of coats um and they. One thing we will learn
Speaker 1: throughout this whole thing is and we need a T
Speaker 1: shirt that says this is dang it to the coyote
Speaker 1: cannot be stopped. Boy do they persevere. There's probably no
Speaker 1: greater survivor maybe currently alive on Earth that's a mammal
Speaker 1: at least than a coyote. Yeah, I mean we will see.
Speaker 1: There have been efforts over the years to extinct them
Speaker 1: on purpose, like a coyote holocaust. Yeah. And the and
Speaker 1: the coyote just trots away with that signature bounce and
Speaker 1: gives the finger and and it's actually good luck. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and has actually expanded the range and swollen in population
Speaker 1: despite an effort to to drive them purposefully to extinction
Speaker 1: a well funded really yeah at different times. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: pretty amazing, Yeah, it really is. I mean I feel
Speaker 1: very bad for coyotes. I do to Um. One reason
Speaker 1: I wanted to do this one is because there's coyotes
Speaker 1: in in Atlanta, is in every major city in America
Speaker 1: almost yea. And there's coyotes around humans in my neighborhood
Speaker 1: and that means it's Momo's neighborhood too, And so you
Speaker 1: me went off on this, like she found out about
Speaker 1: that and just started learning everything she could about coyotes, Like,
Speaker 1: we need a new fence. We got to get a
Speaker 1: coyote vest for Momo, which she now has. Yeah, she
Speaker 1: looks adorable in it. They work for hawks and things too, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's I think they're one and the same predate predator vest.
Speaker 1: But I think it's called like the brand name as
Speaker 1: a coyote vest. I think I think, Um, like, we
Speaker 1: know a lot about coyotes because they're in our neighborhood,
Speaker 1: and like the more we learn about it, the more
Speaker 1: it's like I hate them in that they would take
Speaker 1: Momo if they had a chance. Um, but I also
Speaker 1: do feel bad for them too, because they are uh,
Speaker 1: just trying to make their own way and live there.
Speaker 1: You know, they're just being a coyote, right exactly. I
Speaker 1: mean Emily and I saw coyotes in our neighborhood in
Speaker 1: l a and Igorrock on walks and we saw, uh,
Speaker 1: we've seen them in Atlanta. We saw one a few
Speaker 1: months ago at night that looks very sick and was alone. Um.
Speaker 1: But we will dispel some myths. Not every coyote you
Speaker 1: see alone as rabid. Not every coyote see during the
Speaker 1: day as rabid um. And we'll get more into this,
Speaker 1: but they if it weren't for people, coyotes would be
Speaker 1: out all the time during the day. Yeah. They're not
Speaker 1: nocturnal by nature. No, they're not. They're diurnal and the
Speaker 1: naught by nature. And well, they may be the ones that, um,
Speaker 1: that that live closest to humans and urban areas or
Speaker 1: suburban areas have actually adapted their behavior and become I
Speaker 1: don't know what you call it. I guess they are nocturnal,
Speaker 1: but they're most active at dawn and dusk. But they're
Speaker 1: definitely not diurnal where they're active during the day and
Speaker 1: sleep at night like they normally are. They've actually altered
Speaker 1: their behavior, and it's just one of the many coyotes
Speaker 1: are like, fine, that's that's fine, will change, will change
Speaker 1: to stay alive. That's right. Uh. I think another Urban
Speaker 1: County was another band name I thought was good and
Speaker 1: I actually looked that up and of course there's an
Speaker 1: urban County band. Uh. Speaking of urban counties, they actually
Speaker 1: caught one in at Metro Atlanta recently, very very rare,
Speaker 1: all black coyote named Carmine. They trapped the big reggoo. Interesting,
Speaker 1: but I mentioned that trot. That's how you like if
Speaker 1: you're out walking at night or walking your dogs and
Speaker 1: you see what you think is a dog and it's
Speaker 1: got this there's this little signature bouncy trot. You're like,
Speaker 1: oh no, no, no no, that's no dog. All right. So
Speaker 1: back to counties in general, Uh, they are wolf like,
Speaker 1: but they have narrow, more narrow snouts. Uh, they're not
Speaker 1: quite as muscular. Um Ed Grabanowski helped us put this together.
Speaker 1: He wanted to point out that they're bigger than foxes,
Speaker 1: which I thought was funny. It seemed obvious to me
Speaker 1: that they're bigger than foxes, but maybe not everyone knows that. Well.
Speaker 1: The first Uh, coyote that was spotted by Anglo Americans,
Speaker 1: which was the Lewis and Clark expedition. Um, they thought
Speaker 1: it was a fox from Afar, and then when they
Speaker 1: shot one and got up close, they're like, oh, it's
Speaker 1: kind of wolfe. They don't look like foxes at all
Speaker 1: to me. No, but I guess it was like staying
Speaker 1: far enough away that I couldn't tell. Who knows. People
Speaker 1: were much dumber back then. They were all smoking opium
Speaker 1: on that trip. I also like, I would like to
Speaker 1: acknowledge a stuff you should know. First, we had a
Speaker 1: mid show producer change. Jerry started out the show about
Speaker 1: eight nine minutes ago. She said, to heck with this,
Speaker 1: She's had it. Jerry had to go. Jerry had to
Speaker 1: go do a call and said Josh, Josh, Josh. He
Speaker 1: stepped in. Welcome Josh. Never happened before. Thanks for doing that.
Speaker 1: I wonder who's going to finish up the show. I
Speaker 1: don't know, our little pecking bird perhaps. Yeah, okay, you
Speaker 1: acted like you didn't get the reference the dipping bird. Theah,
Speaker 1: the dipping bird. Uh. So coyotes bigger than a fox,
Speaker 1: smaller than an elephant. Uh, their tip nose to tail,
Speaker 1: body length usually about two to five ft. Yeah. They
Speaker 1: basically looked like somebody took a shrink ray on a
Speaker 1: wolf and just dropped it by like, yeah, fifty pounds.
Speaker 1: Their fur brown tan, kind of gray, kind of modeled. Uh,
Speaker 1: and you know that's a coyote. Yeah. They eat mammals mostly,
Speaker 1: but well also there are omnivores el eat berries. If
Speaker 1: there's a lot of berries, Oh yeah, they'll eat They
Speaker 1: love fruit. They love figs apparently, but they're diet as
Speaker 1: mammals supposedly. Here's the thing. If you're just kind of
Speaker 1: like coyotes, cool, whatever, they're related to dogs in there,
Speaker 1: you know, all over the place. I want you to just,
Speaker 1: first of all, listen to this episode. But things just
Speaker 1: start like researching kyotes. You will be astounded and amazed
Speaker 1: at every turn. Coyotes like fruit. So do you know
Speaker 1: what coyotes do. They climb trees and balance on branches
Speaker 1: so that they can get all the fruit that they want.
Speaker 1: Look it up. Look up pictures of coyotes climbing trees.
Speaker 1: They take small animals like dogs out of the backyard,
Speaker 1: so coyotes can jump over fences six ft are under
Speaker 1: and squeeze through slats of pickets three inches or wider.
Speaker 1: They also dig under if they need to do all
Speaker 1: sorts of crazy stuff. Coyote will say, hey, lizard, come
Speaker 1: here your lunch. Yeah, they'll eat lizards, will so they'll
Speaker 1: eat just about lead, insects, Yeah, they'll lead insects, they'll um.
Speaker 1: They specialize in rodents, small mammals, rabbits, that kind of thing,
Speaker 1: but they will eat just about anything. And one of
Speaker 1: the things that its sounded me the most is um.
Speaker 1: And I know we're hopping all over the place here,
Speaker 1: that's right, And I want this to just evolve into like,
Speaker 1: here's a cool coyote effect, but it may That's all right.
Speaker 1: They engage in the social behavior called fission fusion, where
Speaker 1: they can be they're totally fine hunting alone, living alone,
Speaker 1: but they're also totally fine hunting and packs living in
Speaker 1: packs depending on the kinds of resources available. So if
Speaker 1: there's like deer in an area, coyote can't take a
Speaker 1: deer down on their own, but at coyote, if there's
Speaker 1: deer available in the area, they'll get with other coyotes
Speaker 1: in the area and hunt in a pack. But normally
Speaker 1: they just hunt by themselves when there's like say, lots
Speaker 1: of rabbits, because all it takes is one. But depending
Speaker 1: on the food available and the resources available, and how
Speaker 1: many other coyotes are in the area, they'll come into
Speaker 1: and out of these fluid packs, depending on basically the situation.
Speaker 1: Like what you uh. Here's another thing, Like we said,
Speaker 1: they small rodents and mammals usually, But if you're an elk,
Speaker 1: like with a head cold, watch your back because that
Speaker 1: coyote knows it, and he knows that you're not feeling well,
Speaker 1: and he might come at you with a buddy or
Speaker 1: two and feast on you for a few days because
Speaker 1: of that fusion. They've entered that fusion mode and now
Speaker 1: they're hunting impacts. Here's one thing you don't really need
Speaker 1: to worry about, is coyote attack on yourself. It has happened,
Speaker 1: but it's very rare. One of the most astounding things
Speaker 1: I've ever seen is a coyote that was sneaking up
Speaker 1: on a little kid playing in their driveway, must have
Speaker 1: been in California or something like that, and the family
Speaker 1: cat comes tearing around the side of the house as
Speaker 1: at the moment the coyote is about a pounce on
Speaker 1: the kid and jumps onto the coyote. That one pushes
Speaker 1: off of the coyote, the coyote takes off. The cat
Speaker 1: saved the little kid's life. Yeah, the most amazing thing
Speaker 1: I've ever seen. I saw him just from last night. Uh,
Speaker 1: a group of a pack of coyotes was fended off
Speaker 1: by a cat and they caught up. Someone caught it
Speaker 1: all on their house camera. You don't mess with cats, man, No,
Speaker 1: I know they're they're vicious. Yeah so so yeah in
Speaker 1: that one, if you watch closely, you can show me
Speaker 1: that one that one of the coyotes all over the caches.
Speaker 1: She's basically watching animal snuff movies for a while. Researcher,
Speaker 1: I'm like, you have to stop. This can't be healthy
Speaker 1: for you. But um, but like should just be sitting
Speaker 1: in bed with her knees pull chest Like they're not
Speaker 1: going to give home off, they're not gonna get up.
Speaker 1: But one of those coyotes to get out of the way,
Speaker 1: the cat just jumped right up on like this five
Speaker 1: foot wall right next to it, like a vertical leap
Speaker 1: up onto the wall. It's not even like it's nothing,
Speaker 1: but but yes, cats still mess around. With coyotes, it's
Speaker 1: pretty amazing. So uh, they live usually only about six
Speaker 1: to eight years in the wild. Um, they have seen
Speaker 1: them a oldest ten or fifteen. But I kind of
Speaker 1: wondered about dogs and like just a dog in the
Speaker 1: woods that never a feral dog that never was claimed,
Speaker 1: Like if that really was a short lifespan as well,
Speaker 1: probably kind of curious compared to a domestic dog for sure. Yeah, absolutely, yeah. Uh.
Speaker 1: If you are a coyote, you will choose your mate
Speaker 1: for life, which is very very sweet. Yeah, unless that
Speaker 1: mate dies and then they are allowed to go out
Speaker 1: and find a new mate. Socially it's okay, yeah, but yeah,
Speaker 1: they they mate for life. They raised their young together. Um,
Speaker 1: and the the young grow up really quick. They usually
Speaker 1: have about litters of I think I saw six on average,
Speaker 1: but it can be as low as three. I'm sure
Speaker 1: you can go even lower than that, but it can
Speaker 1: get up into the teens. They need them. And this
Speaker 1: is why coyotes have proven utterly impossible to exterminate. Thankfully,
Speaker 1: we stopped trying to do that, but for a very
Speaker 1: long time we tried to and we'll talk about more later.
Speaker 1: But the reason why it proved impossible is because coyote
Speaker 1: mothers basically change the number of coyotes they have in
Speaker 1: their litter depending on how the population is expanding or contracts. Amazing,
Speaker 1: and they do this. One of the ways that they
Speaker 1: figured out they do this is that coyote howell where
Speaker 1: you hear coyote howling nearby, and then some other one
Speaker 1: is often the distance and another one even further off.
Speaker 1: They figured out that they are basically taking a census
Speaker 1: how many of you got, and the last response will
Speaker 1: actually trigger a hormonal change in female coyotes who are
Speaker 1: a reproductive age, and they will have more pups than
Speaker 1: they would have if they got in a response to
Speaker 1: their call. Unbelievable. Uh. They have their well talk about
Speaker 1: their families in a sect, but they raise their young
Speaker 1: in dens. Uh. Sometimes they will make their own den,
Speaker 1: but a lot of times they will take over the
Speaker 1: den of another animal and uh renovate it, make it
Speaker 1: their own, usually expand it a little bigger, but a
Speaker 1: little macromay. Yeah, maybe at a steam shower perhaps, Oh nice,
Speaker 1: You never know. Uh. They returned to their dens if
Speaker 1: they can, uh, year after year, if it's available, and
Speaker 1: sometimes you will find them in weird places though, like
Speaker 1: a drainage tunnel or in the cross space of a
Speaker 1: house or something. But those are obviously urban coyotes. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and so they're their territory actually is. It can be
Speaker 1: really big, it can be really small. It depends on
Speaker 1: how dense their food sources are. Yeah, they're really uh
Speaker 1: flexible yep, with with how they live their lives, like
Speaker 1: in every single way, shape or form, so so much so.
Speaker 1: I mean we talked about the fission and the fusion
Speaker 1: um social structure. It's just this fluid social structure um
Speaker 1: in the pack. The basic unit of of coyote society
Speaker 1: is the family, the mother and the father, the two
Speaker 1: alpha's and then their offspring or betas this gets really interesting,
Speaker 1: and their offspring again, depending on the resources, they may
Speaker 1: stick around and help raise another litter. Those are called helpers.
Speaker 1: They may stick around and basically just mooch. They call
Speaker 1: those slouches. Yes, slouches are the ones who come home
Speaker 1: from Appalachian State spend a lot of time on the couch.
Speaker 1: But they're they're they're in the pack. But it just
Speaker 1: says here they're not contributing in any way basically. Yeah, um,
Speaker 1: and then so some some beata's depending like if food
Speaker 1: starts to get scarce or whatever, some alphaals will be
Speaker 1: like you, you need to go. It's time for you
Speaker 1: to go find your own territory, of your own range.
Speaker 1: Go be a loner, Go find a mate, just get
Speaker 1: out of the basement basically. Um. But other times they
Speaker 1: might be allowed to stay, depending on the food sources.
Speaker 1: And and that's where that fusion and fission kicks in.
Speaker 1: That's right. Uh, all right, maybe we should take a
Speaker 1: break here and we'll talk about loner coyotes right after this.
Speaker 1: M alright, we're back, and we were talking about the
Speaker 1: pack size, how it can shift depending on the resources. Uh,
Speaker 1: there are also lone or coyotes. Maybe their beta they
Speaker 1: get kicked off the couch finally, or maybe they are
Speaker 1: an aged out alpha. Um. And like I said, if
Speaker 1: you see a coyote by him or herself, that doesn't
Speaker 1: mean maybe I should say itself doesn't necessarily mean they're rabid.
Speaker 1: Because you get on these Facebook neighborhood pages and there's
Speaker 1: coyote sites sightings, and people lose their minds and give
Speaker 1: out a lot of bad information. It goes both ways.
Speaker 1: People are either like say kill them, kill it, kill
Speaker 1: it with fire as fast as you can, or else.
Speaker 1: Other people are like, well, I've been feeding it for
Speaker 1: the last couple of weeks. It's nice. It likes to
Speaker 1: come play with my dogs, right, Or it's out during
Speaker 1: the day it's so it's rabid for sure, or it
Speaker 1: was by itself, so it was rabid. There aren't There
Speaker 1: haven't been big outbreaks of rabid cavities and many many,
Speaker 1: many years. Yeah, apparently they made a concerted effort to
Speaker 1: eradicate rabies among coyotes and so not just coyotes, but
Speaker 1: I think mammals in the wild in general. And so
Speaker 1: they started basically dropping vaccines bait basically but vaccinated. Would
Speaker 1: you say wolf bait? I don't think that's a widely
Speaker 1: known term that My buddy Eddie, he's just say that
Speaker 1: for farting, he's dropping wolf baite. He might have made
Speaker 1: that up. So imagine if that was vaccinated, that's what
Speaker 1: they were doing, and um, dropping wolf baite, that's that's
Speaker 1: good stuff. I gotta say, it's nice, haven't Josh t
Speaker 1: laughing over there? Not? Jerry's just permanent lack of care,
Speaker 1: no idea, no idea. Um. So they actually managed to
Speaker 1: largely get rid of rabies among coyotes from what we understand. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so maybe we should talk about the beginnings. Go ahead,
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, but they do finally carry distemper,
Speaker 1: and they can carry rabies. Is not to say like
Speaker 1: there are rabbid coyotes. It's just not a big problem.
Speaker 1: And one of those Facebook commenters I quoted saying that
Speaker 1: it likes to come play with my dogs. That actually happens.
Speaker 1: Coyotes are known to play with dogs. That's how Carmine,
Speaker 1: the rare black um coyote was trapped. He made friends
Speaker 1: with a Great Pyrenees in Smyrna and was playing around
Speaker 1: and like they finally set up some traps in the
Speaker 1: yard and he fell for one of them. Um. Those
Speaker 1: Pyrenees are beautiful dogs, they really are. But um, that
Speaker 1: pyrenees hopefully had distemper vaccine because just playing with the coyote,
Speaker 1: it can be it can it can get distemper and
Speaker 1: that's something you want your dog to have. No, not
Speaker 1: at all. So uh, let's talk a little bit about
Speaker 1: the beginnings of the coyotes. They were, or at least
Speaker 1: what we think is that coyotes and wolves and then
Speaker 1: now extinct. Uh, other kind of dog basically were around,
Speaker 1: and they were sort of the starting point for what
Speaker 1: are counties and wolves, but they were apparently much more
Speaker 1: like coyotes and wolves. So they generally think that counties
Speaker 1: were sort of the the o G evolutionarily speaking, right right.
Speaker 1: I saw also that, um, there's a line of thinking
Speaker 1: that they descended from red wolves whose range still is
Speaker 1: over the southeast in Texas. I think there's still a
Speaker 1: few around today. Um. But the the however they started
Speaker 1: it happened anywhere from I think two million years ago
Speaker 1: to three hundred thousand years ago. Coyotes evolved, and again
Speaker 1: here in North America. This is there there um home continent.
Speaker 1: But as they started to evolve, the ones that first
Speaker 1: came along were bigger and um, heavier than the coyotes
Speaker 1: we know today. But the problem is is they were
Speaker 1: in direct competition be based on their size with wolves,
Speaker 1: and wolves are and have always been much more aggressive hunters.
Speaker 1: They don't tolerate other aggressive predators in their range, so
Speaker 1: they'll go after a coyote. And so this is really interesting.
Speaker 1: Over over the years, um, just from living with wolves,
Speaker 1: coyotes apparently started to shrink down in size so that
Speaker 1: they could fill an ecological niche that had been left
Speaker 1: open rodents and rabbits, which wolves don't care that much about.
Speaker 1: Wolves want to take down like caribo and elk, and
Speaker 1: they hunt in packs exclusively. They don't care about rabbits, right,
Speaker 1: So that that left the rabbits to the coyotes and
Speaker 1: kyotes kind of shrunk in size and started going after that.
Speaker 1: And then one other thing that happened to Chuck was
Speaker 1: that meant that because they were confronting wolves, the coyotes
Speaker 1: that were more aggressive and went after wolves or went
Speaker 1: to go fight wolves when wolves are around, they died out,
Speaker 1: which left just the timid ones, right. Yeah, so coyotes.
Speaker 1: That's why you won't fighting coyotes that are super rest
Speaker 1: of these days, because in order to survive the wolf Challenge. Uh,
Speaker 1: there's another good band name. The Challenge is an amazing
Speaker 1: band that's not bad. There's a lot of wolf band
Speaker 1: zoh Will Parade and wolf Mother other Wolves. That's not
Speaker 1: the name of the band of other wolves. There might
Speaker 1: be it could be. Um. Yeah, so those those are
Speaker 1: the ones that stuck around. Uh. And like we said,
Speaker 1: cooties are that's just another example of how bad they
Speaker 1: want to survive. UM. These days, they are listed as
Speaker 1: a species of Least concern, which means don't we don't
Speaker 1: have to do anything nothing, no conservation efforts whatsoever. The
Speaker 1: only conservation effort that has been uh hung on coyotes
Speaker 1: is that there's a law that says we we are
Speaker 1: not allowed to drive them to extinction, which is a
Speaker 1: reversal of original policies. We'll see, should we go ahead
Speaker 1: and talk about that. So, yeah, there was a policy,
Speaker 1: uh when was it in the nineteen thirties, starting in
Speaker 1: the nineteenth century, I think, okay, where they basically said,
Speaker 1: I mean a lot of it was sensationalist journalism, but
Speaker 1: that basically that coyotes were the scourge of the earth
Speaker 1: and they will kill every chicken and every sheep on
Speaker 1: your and every cow and your property and your horses,
Speaker 1: and we gotta get rid of them all. Yeah. So
Speaker 1: basically it was a response to um Anglo American ranchers,
Speaker 1: well actually any American ranchers moving westward, UM farming cattle
Speaker 1: and sheep and all that um. And they were just
Speaker 1: being predated on by wolves. So really they went after
Speaker 1: wolves first, and they were really successful at almost driving
Speaker 1: all wolves to extinction because wolves hunting packs, and so
Speaker 1: if you kill enough wolves, they don't have enough wolves
Speaker 1: to hunt in that pack any longer, and the remaining
Speaker 1: survivors starved to death. Right, So they really worked at
Speaker 1: getting rid of wolves, and it was really effective. Coyotes
Speaker 1: were less effective, but they started the coyotes started preying
Speaker 1: on the um the prey that the wolves were no
Speaker 1: longer around to prey on. So they went after coyotes
Speaker 1: and they went after him big time. They killed hundreds
Speaker 1: of thousands, millions and millions and millions of coyotes over
Speaker 1: the years with like sponsored I think they uh, they said, Congress,
Speaker 1: give us ten million dollars for the next ten years
Speaker 1: and we'll take care of them all right. And about
Speaker 1: the same time, so that was the Biological Survey the
Speaker 1: Eradication Methods Laboratory of the Bureau of Biological Survey. Um.
Speaker 1: They basically said, we're going to start coming up with
Speaker 1: strict nine pills and like um little misters that shoot
Speaker 1: um cyanide in the coyotes face. And they were lacing
Speaker 1: carcasses with all this poison and they were killing off
Speaker 1: all sorts of other animals too, but no one cared
Speaker 1: because everyone hated the coyotes so much that that they
Speaker 1: just didn't care how many other animals died, just as
Speaker 1: long as we were getting rid of the coyotes. But
Speaker 1: around that time biologists started to be like, wait a minute,
Speaker 1: I'm not entirely certain it's a good idea to get
Speaker 1: rid of predators or any kind of animal that we
Speaker 1: find a nuisance, Like, that's probably not the way we
Speaker 1: should be doing things. Yeah. And it also coincided with
Speaker 1: um sort of an anti poison movement where people were like,
Speaker 1: wait a minute, maybe we shouldn't be putting poison all
Speaker 1: over our forests for just any old animal to die
Speaker 1: if it comes near it. Yeah, And that was the
Speaker 1: around the thirties, at the beginning of the thirties. But
Speaker 1: the the the government said no, we're getting rid of
Speaker 1: We're getting rid of coyotes. The ranchers interests are above
Speaker 1: the coyotes interests. Yeah, big money, you know, talking right.
Speaker 1: So not only did they poison them, they would shoot
Speaker 1: them from airplanes and helicopters and still today apparently killed
Speaker 1: tens of thousands of coyotes by shooting at them from
Speaker 1: helicopters like taxpayer funded programs do that. Yeah, they they
Speaker 1: definitely are still culling coyotes and cooties are still giving
Speaker 1: them a little skinny paw middle finger. Right. So I
Speaker 1: have the seventies Richard Nixon apparently banned the use of poisons,
Speaker 1: had no idea about that, signed the Endangered Species Act
Speaker 1: of nineteen seventy three, and that gave the coyotes enough
Speaker 1: breathing room to basically say, Okay, we're not going to
Speaker 1: go extinct. But here's the thing. Because we were so
Speaker 1: successful at wiping out wolves, the coyotes, which have been
Speaker 1: limited almost exclusively to the southwestern United States sir to
Speaker 1: spread and where the wolves had once been, Coyotes started
Speaker 1: popping up in places they had never been seen before,
Speaker 1: southeastern United States. There, They've been spotted in Central America
Speaker 1: at this point. They were found in nineteen forty on
Speaker 1: the Apostle Islands in Wisconsin, which is, at least from
Speaker 1: what I could tell, half a mile swim from the mainland.
Speaker 1: And apparently they're pretty good swimmers too. Um. And then
Speaker 1: they started to move into the suburbs, and then they
Speaker 1: started to move into the cities, and now today, there's
Speaker 1: a guy at Ohio State named Stanley Girt who specializes
Speaker 1: in studying coyotes in Chicago. Downtown Chicago has hundreds of
Speaker 1: coyotes living in alleyways and crevasses and all sorts of
Speaker 1: places right out of sight of human beings. And they
Speaker 1: just come out at night and they've learned how to
Speaker 1: navigate traffic and just basically stay out of side. Oh,
Speaker 1: if you look, if you just type in urban cooties
Speaker 1: to your favorite search engine and looked under images, there
Speaker 1: are pictures of coyotes like in the middle of like
Speaker 1: strip malls and with you know, casinos behind them, and
Speaker 1: like they're just everywhere. Like I'm surprised I haven't seen
Speaker 1: one in Times Square at this point. Wasn't it in
Speaker 1: Heat where they show that coyote like crossing the street
Speaker 1: or crossing the highway? I haven't seen that so long.
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure it's in Heat. Good movie. Should we
Speaker 1: take another break, Let's do it all right? More coy
Speaker 1: out speak right after this. So just just to point
Speaker 1: this out one more time, if you remember from our
Speaker 1: Lyme Disease episode, we've concluded that if we had no
Speaker 1: wiped out wolves, ticks, wouldn't have been able to take
Speaker 1: over and expand because the dear population wouldn't have exploded.
Speaker 1: There would not be coyotes in Chicago right now if
Speaker 1: the wolf population was stable in the United States or
Speaker 1: North America. Yeah, and coyotes also, we're able to live
Speaker 1: in and are able to live in urban environments, whereas
Speaker 1: wolves could not. Oh no way. So they really were
Speaker 1: basically like, hey, we'll we'll go where the wolves won't go.
Speaker 1: We'll eat what the wolves won't eat. We'll hunt by
Speaker 1: ourselves because the wolves can't and uh, look at us,
Speaker 1: we're gonna we're gonna thrive. Yeah. And without wolves, there's
Speaker 1: nothing to to keep them in check, to keep their
Speaker 1: population in check. Angry facebookers. That's it basically, So that
Speaker 1: whole eradication campaign has been put to the side. There's
Speaker 1: definitely still lots of coyotes that are killed every year. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think between two thousand and six and two thousand
Speaker 1: eleven they killed more than half a million coyotes legally.
Speaker 1: I saw that there's a half a million that are
Speaker 1: killed a year still, Yeah, like one a minute every year.
Speaker 1: I've also seen thirty five thousand. I don't know if
Speaker 1: it's just certain divisions are responsible for like half a
Speaker 1: million or maybe certain years they ramp up the efforts
Speaker 1: more than others. I don't know, but they're there are
Speaker 1: definitely still a tremendous amount of coyote deaths. But as
Speaker 1: we've seen, coyotes have been um extremely successful in the
Speaker 1: face of this extermination campaign. Um, just by by reproducing
Speaker 1: depending on the local population. Yeah. Yeah, And if you're
Speaker 1: a rancher, you you don't have to be a part
Speaker 1: of some program like you're you're taking care of things
Speaker 1: in the rancher way, which is traps, guns, yeah, poison. Yeah.
Speaker 1: There's no laws protecting coyotes whatsover. Again, the only law
Speaker 1: as far as I know, I think it's part of
Speaker 1: the Endangered Species Act that says we're not allowed to
Speaker 1: drive coyotes to extinction. But that's it. You can kill
Speaker 1: a coyote. The only things keeping you from shooting a
Speaker 1: coyote like in city limits or gun ordinances. Basically, you
Speaker 1: can kill a coyote anyway you want. Um. But here's
Speaker 1: the thing, go visit in the hospital. Um. But the
Speaker 1: thing is is what they're starting to figure out now
Speaker 1: is because they're so successful that you don't actually want
Speaker 1: to kill them. Killing them has this ripple effect through
Speaker 1: their society where they start reproducing more. And here's the
Speaker 1: other thing. If the coyote is still not if it's
Speaker 1: not acting aggressively towards humans, if it hasn't started to
Speaker 1: take pets, if you just know it's in the area
Speaker 1: but it's trying to keep its distance, you may actually
Speaker 1: be better off with that coyote because if you get
Speaker 1: rid of that coyote, another coyote is going to move in,
Speaker 1: and that coyote might be much more aggressive than the
Speaker 1: last one you just got rid of. Like, if you've
Speaker 1: got a decent neighbor, maybe that's good enough. So that's
Speaker 1: kind of like the idea that's dawning over people with
Speaker 1: coyote management is coyotes aren't going anywhere. They're staying put,
Speaker 1: and the best you can hope for is one that
Speaker 1: keeps this distance and is afraid of humans. Yeah, which
Speaker 1: is generally what's going on in urban areas. Uh, when
Speaker 1: we're talking about ranchers. The reason they're doing this is
Speaker 1: not just because they hate coyotes, is that they lose
Speaker 1: a lot of um animals due to uh, these predators
Speaker 1: they that just sounded so mean. These predators. Uh, there's
Speaker 1: it's hard to get good stats. But the US d
Speaker 1: d A said in two thousand fifteen there was self reporting,
Speaker 1: which you always got to kind of wonder of thirty
Speaker 1: three thousand a little more in change of adult sheep,
Speaker 1: four thousand lambs lost to coyotes, and again that self reported,
Speaker 1: So take it with a grain of salt. But there
Speaker 1: they do lose a lot of animals and chickens and
Speaker 1: things like that. I've gone on my soapbox before about
Speaker 1: keeping your cats inside. I'm not gonna do that again
Speaker 1: except to say keep your cats inside. Yeah, if you have,
Speaker 1: like you know, you're on the fence about keeping your
Speaker 1: cats inside, you just watch some of the videos that
Speaker 1: you be seen, yeah, or just cats being taken. Do
Speaker 1: I want my cat to live several years longer? Because
Speaker 1: the statistics show that outdoor cats don't live as long.
Speaker 1: And not just that, um, not just with cats too,
Speaker 1: but also with dogs if you if they're coyotes in
Speaker 1: the area, and there's a really good chance there are
Speaker 1: no matter where you live in the US, you um
Speaker 1: do not You should not leave your small dog, in
Speaker 1: particular outside unattended. You basically let them out, hang out
Speaker 1: with them, and then let them back in. You definitely
Speaker 1: don't leave them out at dusk or at dawn by
Speaker 1: themselves or overnight. That's right. Uh, we said that you
Speaker 1: don't need to worry too much about being attacked as
Speaker 1: a human. There were a couple of kind of grizzly cases.
Speaker 1: One that's just very difficult to even talk about, frankly.
Speaker 1: In nine, little three year old girl was dragged from
Speaker 1: her driveway in California and the dad did rescue her,
Speaker 1: but she died as a result of her injuries from
Speaker 1: that fracas. In two thousand nine, there was a really
Speaker 1: strange thing in Canada where a nineteen year old woman
Speaker 1: was stalked and killed by at least two coyotes while
Speaker 1: hiking in the middle of the day. And this is
Speaker 1: apparently the only, like only adult human killed by coyotes
Speaker 1: on record. So yeah, and the only explanation for that
Speaker 1: that I could possibly come up with is that she
Speaker 1: was around their den. It was around their pup raising time,
Speaker 1: right say, spring and summer is a pretty bad time
Speaker 1: to be around, getting real defensive of their turf. And
Speaker 1: then thirdly that those were um mated with wolves. Uh.
Speaker 1: Interesting because when the coyotes will mate with dogs, they
Speaker 1: will mate with wolves. It's not like super widespread, but
Speaker 1: it does happen in producing coy dogs and coy wolves.
Speaker 1: But the coy wolves in particular can be much more
Speaker 1: aggressive than your standard coyote. Yeah, so I wonder if
Speaker 1: those three factors played a role in it. Probably it
Speaker 1: was definitely an outlier. It's it's very I mean, it's
Speaker 1: sad no matter what did that girl also, she was
Speaker 1: like an up and coming country singer, like on the
Speaker 1: verge of breaking out and Taylor Mitchell. Yeah yeah. So
Speaker 1: um they say, like we said that these kill couty
Speaker 1: programs don't even work that well and that there is
Speaker 1: uh their statistics to back up the fact that, um,
Speaker 1: non lethal methods of county control or more effective, which
Speaker 1: we're talking about scaring them, like wind chimes and air horns.
Speaker 1: They're really skitty and jumpy, So if you make a
Speaker 1: lot of noise in front of a county they're probably
Speaker 1: gonna bolt. Yeah, it's called hazing. Yeah, and you don't
Speaker 1: like anytime you see a coyote around your area really anywhere,
Speaker 1: just be a good neighbor. You want to haze them,
Speaker 1: do you not just let it happen? Don't just let
Speaker 1: it pass by? Like, you need to take that opportunity
Speaker 1: to haze them, to keep them feeling insecure, more secure. Right,
Speaker 1: The more secure uh a coyote feels, the more the
Speaker 1: more um audacious, embrazen, they're going to become coming into
Speaker 1: your yard trying to take your your dog or your cat.
Speaker 1: So you want to haze them every chance you get
Speaker 1: so that they know to stay over there. This is
Speaker 1: their turf, this is your turf. Right, So if you
Speaker 1: have an umbrella, you want to open the umbrella. This
Speaker 1: says to pick up your small dog. Um, I've also
Speaker 1: read right, I've also read you don't want to do
Speaker 1: that because you make yourself small when you do that,
Speaker 1: and you when when when you're hazing a kyote, you
Speaker 1: want to make yourself as big as possible. What do
Speaker 1: you mean yourself? When you squat down to pick up
Speaker 1: your dog, you seem smaller than you do standing up
Speaker 1: with your arms spread, but do it very quickly. Well,
Speaker 1: But the better thing to do is keep your dog
Speaker 1: on a non flexi lead, like a straight leash. It's
Speaker 1: no more than like six ft and things. Just keep it,
Speaker 1: just pull it back close to you while you're like
Speaker 1: waving your arm and shouting at the kyote to go away. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And I also thought it was funny that Ed pointed
Speaker 1: out that like even if you have a big dog
Speaker 1: that could like kill a coyote, Like, is someone gonna say, like, oh,
Speaker 1: I think you can take them, go get him zeus?
Speaker 1: Yeah maybe not, some people would know. You never know.
Speaker 1: Have you seen those Irish wolfhounds. M sure they're like
Speaker 1: the largest, the largest dogs. Yeah, wolfhounds. They're like bread
Speaker 1: to take on wolves, So they could take on a coyote.
Speaker 1: I could see that having that temptation be like, yeah,
Speaker 1: my dog really could take on this coyote. Maybe what
Speaker 1: did I? Oh? No, that was dingoes that petted in Australia.
Speaker 1: Of course, that they were coyotes is not North America.
Speaker 1: But dingoes were a little they weren't dogs either, And
Speaker 1: and it was like foxes No, I mean they look
Speaker 1: like dogs, but when you're around them, and this was
Speaker 1: at a place where you can hold koalas and stuff
Speaker 1: like that, it was obvious that it's not a dog. No,
Speaker 1: they're wild dogs right, Well not I don't even think
Speaker 1: they're wild dogs. Um or maybe I mean they're they're
Speaker 1: totally related. But I just remember getting the sense um
Speaker 1: Scotty and I both did my friend that was with me,
Speaker 1: um whom you know, they just there was a certain
Speaker 1: the way they carried themselves. And I'm just like, you're
Speaker 1: not a dog. It literally is a dog Canus lupus dingo.
Speaker 1: So it's a subspecies of like dogs. Yeah, but what
Speaker 1: I was saying, not a dog, like not a domesticated dog,
Speaker 1: wild dog. Yeah, you could just tell the difference. And
Speaker 1: I'm sure the same is true with coyotes because coit dogs,
Speaker 1: like you said, are things. Look at that cute little dingo. Um.
Speaker 1: Coit dogs are in kit puppies are super adorable and
Speaker 1: technically you can raise one and even a full county
Speaker 1: if you get it as a puppy, you could have
Speaker 1: it as a pet. It's not a good idea because
Speaker 1: they are coyotes and the cody's gonna coyote. H it
Speaker 1: has happened there or you know, you see those eccentric
Speaker 1: people out there that have like a pet coyote. It's
Speaker 1: the thing, but it's just not a good idea. They're unpredictable. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you don't want to like get a cat companion for him.
Speaker 1: Um in the United States. So uh, the coyotes image
Speaker 1: has really gone through some weird transitions. Early on had
Speaker 1: a really bad reputation UM and apparently was made way
Speaker 1: worse by Mark Twain when he wrote rough in It
Speaker 1: in seventy two. There were a few pages dedicated to
Speaker 1: how lowly a coyote is, and everybody was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: we hate coyotes from that point on. But that actually
Speaker 1: followed in partially this view that had been around for
Speaker 1: ages that Native Americans had of coyotes, not necessarily that
Speaker 1: it was a lowly animal, but that it was a trickster,
Speaker 1: kind of like a brare rabbit type. UM. But then
Speaker 1: he was also in some with some some groups like
Speaker 1: the Creator God, the Creator Deity. There's all sorts of
Speaker 1: different roles that the coyote played in Native American mythologies,
Speaker 1: because there were so many different Native American mythologies. But
Speaker 1: it was very prominent in Southwestern tribes UM mythologies, and
Speaker 1: very frequently as a trickster, very frequently. Yeah, good stuff. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't have anything else. I don't believe I do either.
Speaker 1: If you see a coyote, Hayes, it really shouldn't kill it, like,
Speaker 1: make sure that it's kept on its feet and insecure
Speaker 1: your Petzil. Thank you. If you want to know more
Speaker 1: about coyotes, go look up a coyote standing in a
Speaker 1: tree and that will really set you off. Since I
Speaker 1: said that it's time for listener mail, I'm gonna call
Speaker 1: this grizzly trigger warning email. Has to do with our
Speaker 1: body under the Bed episode, So you know, if you're
Speaker 1: not into listening to this kind of stuff, tune it out. Hey,
Speaker 1: guys listening to the body into the Bed episode, and
Speaker 1: was reminded of a similar awful case in Jacksonville, Florida,
Speaker 1: where I live. In my neighborhood, an eight year old girl, Maddie,
Speaker 1: disappeared while playing outside one afternoon and year yard her yard.
Speaker 1: Long story short. Her neighbor Josh Phillips, who was fourteen
Speaker 1: at the time, was playing with her and accidentally hit
Speaker 1: her in the head, she said, with a baseball bat
Speaker 1: injuring her. I looked into this. Apparently the story was
Speaker 1: she threw the ball, he hit the ball, and the
Speaker 1: ball hit her in the face. She started bleeding and crying.
Speaker 1: He and this is me talking now, not the email.
Speaker 1: He freaked out because his dad was an abusive alcoholic
Speaker 1: and he was afraid his dad was gonna come home
Speaker 1: and see what he'd done, so he panicked back to
Speaker 1: the email. He ended up killing her to keep her
Speaker 1: quiet and stashing her body in the cavern beneath his
Speaker 1: water bed on the second floor of his house, and
Speaker 1: the eight days that follow, a massive community effort ensued
Speaker 1: to locate her, and Josh, her murderer, even participated in this,
Speaker 1: handing out flyers. He slept in that bed for seven
Speaker 1: nights over her body. Police had even searched the home
Speaker 1: several times, and the odor in his room was attributed
Speaker 1: to many pet birds and cages he had and a
Speaker 1: typical fourteen year old boy funk. Uh not a bad
Speaker 1: band name either. She was discovered when they searched a
Speaker 1: terrible four general boyfunk. Typical fourteen year old boyfunk. Well, no,
Speaker 1: I just think boyfunk. Maybe none of that's good. I'd
Speaker 1: take it all back. She was discovered when they searched
Speaker 1: the home again and noticed a stain on the ceiling
Speaker 1: on the floor below his room. Um, I thought it
Speaker 1: was a blood stain. But I looked it up. I
Speaker 1: think it was a leak from the waterbed and stained
Speaker 1: and that fortuitously led to finding her. He remains in prison,
Speaker 1: which has always been a big debate here when it
Speaker 1: comes up for parole um. Just reason happened, m I
Speaker 1: looked it up. I think this was in ninety eight
Speaker 1: and he was fourteen. Wow. Wow, he's been in prison
Speaker 1: the whole time. Huh. Yeah, and it was. It's a
Speaker 1: very tough thing because you know, his father was an
Speaker 1: abuse of alcohol. Like he reacted because he was afraid
Speaker 1: that he was going to come home and find him out,
Speaker 1: and freaked out and hit this girl with a baseball bat,
Speaker 1: put her under the bed, and when he found that
Speaker 1: she was still making noise, this gets really bad. He
Speaker 1: stabbed her like eleven times and killed her. So it
Speaker 1: is just a sad, sad, tragic case all the way around.
Speaker 1: That is from Mary. She said, I love the show
Speaker 1: and have my husband hooked now too. She said, the
Speaker 1: trauma then emotions of those eight days is something I
Speaker 1: will never ever forget. Yeah, very tough case. I don't
Speaker 1: know if thanks as appropriate, Mary, but I can't think
Speaker 1: of anything else to say. Yeah, I don't even know
Speaker 1: why I decided to read that. That was really sort
Speaker 1: of caught me, caught my attention. Yeah, I can see
Speaker 1: how Chuck. Well, if you want to get in touch
Speaker 1: with us like Mary did, don't. If you want to anyway,
Speaker 1: you can send us an email to Stuff podcast did
Speaker 1: i heeart radio dot com. Stuff You Should Know is
Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radio's How Stuff Works. For
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