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Speaker 1: Hello Vancouver, Hello Portland's we're going to be in your

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Speaker 1: city's Sunday, March twenty nine, Monday, March Chuck, that's right,

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Speaker 1: and this is Portland, Oregon. Since we've been to Portland, Maine.

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Speaker 1: We need to specify now, Oh yeah, that's right. But

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Speaker 1: they'd be weird to go from Vancouver to Portland, Maine.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, we can't wait. We've been to both these towns.

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Speaker 1: They've always been kind to us, but we are performing

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Speaker 1: in larger venues this time, so we need you to

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Speaker 1: come out and support us so we don't feel like

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Speaker 1: dumb dumbs. And you can find out all the information,

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Speaker 1: including where to buy tickets at s y s K

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Speaker 1: live dot com. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a

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Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, and

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Speaker 1: welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark and there's your

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Speaker 1: other host, Charles W. Chuck Bryant. There, there's Jerry Roland

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Speaker 1: and our producer. This is Stuff you Should Know Coyote edition.

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Speaker 1: So how are we going to pronounce it? I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's coyote, but coyote's kind of fun, but you could

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Speaker 1: also pronounce it coyote coyote. There's a lot of ways. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so I say coyote, but I don't think that that's

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Speaker 1: technically correct eating it's coyote. Maybe yet I think it's

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Speaker 1: just swallowed my tongue. Uh. There's a lot of good

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Speaker 1: band names in here, by the way, I noticed. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: i'll call them all out. Well, I'll call out the

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Speaker 1: first one right away. Genus Canus. It's pretty good, okay. Uh,

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Speaker 1: that is the where coyotes are members of the genus Canus. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and Canus includes all dogs, Yeah, jackals, dogs, wolves, uh,

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Speaker 1: and dogs. That's why I said dogs. I know, but

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Speaker 1: there's so many great dogs that you just gotta say

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Speaker 1: it twice. Well, I don't want to short change the

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Speaker 1: jackals of the world. Who likes jackals? Nobody likes jackals.

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Speaker 1: That's right, you know, screw them right, say them once.

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Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, let's go back and beep

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Speaker 1: out the second time we said that name. But hey,

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Speaker 1: one thing about this about family candidate, which all dogs

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Speaker 1: belong to. It's a really old um family and it's

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Speaker 1: native to North America. So like all those jackals, if

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Speaker 1: you want to talk about them some more, that made

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Speaker 1: it outside of North America. They started here they didn't

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Speaker 1: come from anywhere else, started in North America. Coyotes as

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Speaker 1: North American as apple Pie and Granny and Baseball and

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Speaker 1: dogs and Dogs. We've done a lot of episodes that

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Speaker 1: are dog related over the years, and I still haven't

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Speaker 1: knocked out the one that I really want to do,

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Speaker 1: which is the the first Dog, like the first domesticated dog.

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Speaker 1: That'd be a good one. They made that movie, but

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure if it had any truth to it whatsoever.

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Speaker 1: Train Spotty. When that stuff happens, do you just say

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Speaker 1: the first thing that came into your head? No, the

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Speaker 1: first thing that came into my head was never cry Wolf.

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Speaker 1: But I was like, that makes too much. I remember

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Speaker 1: that movie that, Yeah, that was a good one. That

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Speaker 1: was when we were kids, right Disney. It was a

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Speaker 1: Disney jam, but I think it was like a little

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Speaker 1: but it's scarier. Is there's something about it that made

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Speaker 1: it like groundbreaking for Disney. I don't remember what it was, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I remember too. Uh. And then that that terrible looking

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Speaker 1: Call of the Wild Thing is out? Now, why can't

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Speaker 1: anybody stuff? Man? It's driving me crazy. Have you seen

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Speaker 1: these spectrum ads with Ellen degenerous on them? Apparently they're

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Speaker 1: just using c G I, Ellen, Because Ellen, if if

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Speaker 1: it's not, I was making a joke. It's the weirdest

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Speaker 1: makeup I've ever seen that actually makes her look c

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Speaker 1: G I. But it looks so much like that, it's

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Speaker 1: it seems likelier to me that it's a c G I. Ellen,

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Speaker 1: And I don't understand why. Surely not proved me wrong? World. Well,

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking now, if I'm Ellen and they say, hey,

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Speaker 1: we want to choot a bunch of spots with you,

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Speaker 1: we'll pay five million dollars, or we'll pay you three

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Speaker 1: and a half million for your image likeness, you could

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Speaker 1: stay at home. I would stay at home. I would travel,

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Speaker 1: you would, sure, that's true? A million a half bucks? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's a lot of dough how would travel? Plus? Also,

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Speaker 1: I mean, like curse spots in these spectrum commercials are

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Speaker 1: so small and limited that it couldn't possibly take more

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Speaker 1: than half of a day per spot. Yeah, and they

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Speaker 1: and when you're a big star like that, you can

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Speaker 1: dictate it. You can be like, sure, I'll do it.

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Speaker 1: You've got me for two hours, right, you have to

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Speaker 1: pay for the teleportation, that's right, you know, But it's

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Speaker 1: so Yes, they called the wild thing to stop. Stop,

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Speaker 1: everybody stop. Yeah. Of course maybe Harrison Ford was so

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Speaker 1: stoned he didn't even realize it wasn't a real dog.

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Speaker 1: God bless him. All right, So back to coyotes. There

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Speaker 1: are they are. The scientific name is Canis Latran's barking dog. Sure, boy,

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Speaker 1: they make a lot of noise. We'll get to at

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Speaker 1: their nineteen. Subspecies generally has to do with their range,

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Speaker 1: but sometimes it can be bigger or smaller, different kind

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Speaker 1: of coats um and they. One thing we will learn

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Speaker 1: throughout this whole thing is and we need a T

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Speaker 1: shirt that says this is dang it to the coyote

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Speaker 1: cannot be stopped. Boy do they persevere. There's probably no

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Speaker 1: greater survivor maybe currently alive on Earth that's a mammal

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Speaker 1: at least than a coyote. Yeah, I mean we will see.

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Speaker 1: There have been efforts over the years to extinct them

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Speaker 1: on purpose, like a coyote holocaust. Yeah. And the and

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Speaker 1: the coyote just trots away with that signature bounce and

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Speaker 1: gives the finger and and it's actually good luck. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and has actually expanded the range and swollen in population

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Speaker 1: despite an effort to to drive them purposefully to extinction

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Speaker 1: a well funded really yeah at different times. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: pretty amazing, Yeah, it really is. I mean I feel

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Speaker 1: very bad for coyotes. I do to Um. One reason

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Speaker 1: I wanted to do this one is because there's coyotes

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Speaker 1: in in Atlanta, is in every major city in America

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Speaker 1: almost yea. And there's coyotes around humans in my neighborhood

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Speaker 1: and that means it's Momo's neighborhood too, And so you

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Speaker 1: me went off on this, like she found out about

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Speaker 1: that and just started learning everything she could about coyotes, Like,

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Speaker 1: we need a new fence. We got to get a

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Speaker 1: coyote vest for Momo, which she now has. Yeah, she

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Speaker 1: looks adorable in it. They work for hawks and things too, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's I think they're one and the same predate predator vest.

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Speaker 1: But I think it's called like the brand name as

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Speaker 1: a coyote vest. I think I think, Um, like, we

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Speaker 1: know a lot about coyotes because they're in our neighborhood,

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Speaker 1: and like the more we learn about it, the more

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Speaker 1: it's like I hate them in that they would take

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Speaker 1: Momo if they had a chance. Um, but I also

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Speaker 1: do feel bad for them too, because they are uh,

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Speaker 1: just trying to make their own way and live there.

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Speaker 1: You know, they're just being a coyote, right exactly. I

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Speaker 1: mean Emily and I saw coyotes in our neighborhood in

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Speaker 1: l a and Igorrock on walks and we saw, uh,

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Speaker 1: we've seen them in Atlanta. We saw one a few

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Speaker 1: months ago at night that looks very sick and was alone. Um.

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Speaker 1: But we will dispel some myths. Not every coyote you

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Speaker 1: see alone as rabid. Not every coyote see during the

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Speaker 1: day as rabid um. And we'll get more into this,

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Speaker 1: but they if it weren't for people, coyotes would be

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Speaker 1: out all the time during the day. Yeah. They're not

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Speaker 1: nocturnal by nature. No, they're not. They're diurnal and the

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Speaker 1: naught by nature. And well, they may be the ones that, um,

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Speaker 1: that that live closest to humans and urban areas or

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Speaker 1: suburban areas have actually adapted their behavior and become I

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Speaker 1: don't know what you call it. I guess they are nocturnal,

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Speaker 1: but they're most active at dawn and dusk. But they're

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Speaker 1: definitely not diurnal where they're active during the day and

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Speaker 1: sleep at night like they normally are. They've actually altered

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Speaker 1: their behavior, and it's just one of the many coyotes

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Speaker 1: are like, fine, that's that's fine, will change, will change

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Speaker 1: to stay alive. That's right. Uh. I think another Urban

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Speaker 1: County was another band name I thought was good and

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Speaker 1: I actually looked that up and of course there's an

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Speaker 1: urban County band. Uh. Speaking of urban counties, they actually

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Speaker 1: caught one in at Metro Atlanta recently, very very rare,

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Speaker 1: all black coyote named Carmine. They trapped the big reggoo. Interesting,

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Speaker 1: but I mentioned that trot. That's how you like if

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Speaker 1: you're out walking at night or walking your dogs and

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Speaker 1: you see what you think is a dog and it's

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Speaker 1: got this there's this little signature bouncy trot. You're like,

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Speaker 1: oh no, no, no no, that's no dog. All right. So

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Speaker 1: back to counties in general, Uh, they are wolf like,

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Speaker 1: but they have narrow, more narrow snouts. Uh, they're not

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Speaker 1: quite as muscular. Um Ed Grabanowski helped us put this together.

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Speaker 1: He wanted to point out that they're bigger than foxes,

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Speaker 1: which I thought was funny. It seemed obvious to me

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Speaker 1: that they're bigger than foxes, but maybe not everyone knows that. Well.

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Speaker 1: The first Uh, coyote that was spotted by Anglo Americans,

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Speaker 1: which was the Lewis and Clark expedition. Um, they thought

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Speaker 1: it was a fox from Afar, and then when they

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Speaker 1: shot one and got up close, they're like, oh, it's

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Speaker 1: kind of wolfe. They don't look like foxes at all

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Speaker 1: to me. No, but I guess it was like staying

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Speaker 1: far enough away that I couldn't tell. Who knows. People

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Speaker 1: were much dumber back then. They were all smoking opium

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Speaker 1: on that trip. I also like, I would like to

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Speaker 1: acknowledge a stuff you should know. First, we had a

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Speaker 1: mid show producer change. Jerry started out the show about

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Speaker 1: eight nine minutes ago. She said, to heck with this,

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Speaker 1: She's had it. Jerry had to go. Jerry had to

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Speaker 1: go do a call and said Josh, Josh, Josh. He

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Speaker 1: stepped in. Welcome Josh. Never happened before. Thanks for doing that.

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Speaker 1: I wonder who's going to finish up the show. I

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Speaker 1: don't know, our little pecking bird perhaps. Yeah, okay, you

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Speaker 1: acted like you didn't get the reference the dipping bird. Theah,

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Speaker 1: the dipping bird. Uh. So coyotes bigger than a fox,

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Speaker 1: smaller than an elephant. Uh, their tip nose to tail,

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Speaker 1: body length usually about two to five ft. Yeah. They

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Speaker 1: basically looked like somebody took a shrink ray on a

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Speaker 1: wolf and just dropped it by like, yeah, fifty pounds.

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Speaker 1: Their fur brown tan, kind of gray, kind of modeled. Uh,

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Speaker 1: and you know that's a coyote. Yeah. They eat mammals mostly,

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Speaker 1: but well also there are omnivores el eat berries. If

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of berries, Oh yeah, they'll eat They

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Speaker 1: love fruit. They love figs apparently, but they're diet as

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Speaker 1: mammals supposedly. Here's the thing. If you're just kind of

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Speaker 1: like coyotes, cool, whatever, they're related to dogs in there,

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Speaker 1: you know, all over the place. I want you to just,

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Speaker 1: first of all, listen to this episode. But things just

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Speaker 1: start like researching kyotes. You will be astounded and amazed

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Speaker 1: at every turn. Coyotes like fruit. So do you know

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Speaker 1: what coyotes do. They climb trees and balance on branches

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Speaker 1: so that they can get all the fruit that they want.

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Speaker 1: Look it up. Look up pictures of coyotes climbing trees.

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Speaker 1: They take small animals like dogs out of the backyard,

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Speaker 1: so coyotes can jump over fences six ft are under

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Speaker 1: and squeeze through slats of pickets three inches or wider.

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Speaker 1: They also dig under if they need to do all

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Speaker 1: sorts of crazy stuff. Coyote will say, hey, lizard, come

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Speaker 1: here your lunch. Yeah, they'll eat lizards, will so they'll

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Speaker 1: eat just about lead, insects, Yeah, they'll lead insects, they'll um.

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Speaker 1: They specialize in rodents, small mammals, rabbits, that kind of thing,

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Speaker 1: but they will eat just about anything. And one of

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Speaker 1: the things that its sounded me the most is um.

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Speaker 1: And I know we're hopping all over the place here,

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Speaker 1: that's right, And I want this to just evolve into like,

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Speaker 1: here's a cool coyote effect, but it may That's all right.

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Speaker 1: They engage in the social behavior called fission fusion, where

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Speaker 1: they can be they're totally fine hunting alone, living alone,

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Speaker 1: but they're also totally fine hunting and packs living in

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Speaker 1: packs depending on the kinds of resources available. So if

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Speaker 1: there's like deer in an area, coyote can't take a

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Speaker 1: deer down on their own, but at coyote, if there's

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Speaker 1: deer available in the area, they'll get with other coyotes

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Speaker 1: in the area and hunt in a pack. But normally

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Speaker 1: they just hunt by themselves when there's like say, lots

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Speaker 1: of rabbits, because all it takes is one. But depending

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Speaker 1: on the food available and the resources available, and how

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Speaker 1: many other coyotes are in the area, they'll come into

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Speaker 1: and out of these fluid packs, depending on basically the situation.

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Speaker 1: Like what you uh. Here's another thing, Like we said,

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Speaker 1: they small rodents and mammals usually, But if you're an elk,

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Speaker 1: like with a head cold, watch your back because that

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Speaker 1: coyote knows it, and he knows that you're not feeling well,

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Speaker 1: and he might come at you with a buddy or

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Speaker 1: two and feast on you for a few days because

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Speaker 1: of that fusion. They've entered that fusion mode and now

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Speaker 1: they're hunting impacts. Here's one thing you don't really need

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Speaker 1: to worry about, is coyote attack on yourself. It has happened,

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Speaker 1: but it's very rare. One of the most astounding things

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Speaker 1: I've ever seen is a coyote that was sneaking up

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Speaker 1: on a little kid playing in their driveway, must have

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Speaker 1: been in California or something like that, and the family

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Speaker 1: cat comes tearing around the side of the house as

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Speaker 1: at the moment the coyote is about a pounce on

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Speaker 1: the kid and jumps onto the coyote. That one pushes

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Speaker 1: off of the coyote, the coyote takes off. The cat

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Speaker 1: saved the little kid's life. Yeah, the most amazing thing

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Speaker 1: I've ever seen. I saw him just from last night. Uh,

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Speaker 1: a group of a pack of coyotes was fended off

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Speaker 1: by a cat and they caught up. Someone caught it

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Speaker 1: all on their house camera. You don't mess with cats, man, No,

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Speaker 1: I know they're they're vicious. Yeah so so yeah in

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Speaker 1: that one, if you watch closely, you can show me

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Speaker 1: that one that one of the coyotes all over the caches.

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Speaker 1: She's basically watching animal snuff movies for a while. Researcher,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, you have to stop. This can't be healthy

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Speaker 1: for you. But um, but like should just be sitting

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Speaker 1: in bed with her knees pull chest Like they're not

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Speaker 1: going to give home off, they're not gonna get up.

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Speaker 1: But one of those coyotes to get out of the way,

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Speaker 1: the cat just jumped right up on like this five

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Speaker 1: foot wall right next to it, like a vertical leap

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Speaker 1: up onto the wall. It's not even like it's nothing,

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Speaker 1: but but yes, cats still mess around. With coyotes, it's

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Speaker 1: pretty amazing. So uh, they live usually only about six

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Speaker 1: to eight years in the wild. Um, they have seen

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Speaker 1: them a oldest ten or fifteen. But I kind of

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Speaker 1: wondered about dogs and like just a dog in the

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Speaker 1: woods that never a feral dog that never was claimed,

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Speaker 1: Like if that really was a short lifespan as well,

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Speaker 1: probably kind of curious compared to a domestic dog for sure. Yeah, absolutely, yeah. Uh.

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Speaker 1: If you are a coyote, you will choose your mate

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Speaker 1: for life, which is very very sweet. Yeah, unless that

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Speaker 1: mate dies and then they are allowed to go out

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Speaker 1: and find a new mate. Socially it's okay, yeah, but yeah,

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Speaker 1: they they mate for life. They raised their young together. Um,

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Speaker 1: and the the young grow up really quick. They usually

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Speaker 1: have about litters of I think I saw six on average,

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Speaker 1: but it can be as low as three. I'm sure

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Speaker 1: you can go even lower than that, but it can

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Speaker 1: get up into the teens. They need them. And this

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Speaker 1: is why coyotes have proven utterly impossible to exterminate. Thankfully,

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Speaker 1: we stopped trying to do that, but for a very

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Speaker 1: long time we tried to and we'll talk about more later.

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Speaker 1: But the reason why it proved impossible is because coyote

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Speaker 1: mothers basically change the number of coyotes they have in

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Speaker 1: their litter depending on how the population is expanding or contracts. Amazing,

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Speaker 1: and they do this. One of the ways that they

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Speaker 1: figured out they do this is that coyote howell where

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Speaker 1: you hear coyote howling nearby, and then some other one

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Speaker 1: is often the distance and another one even further off.

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Speaker 1: They figured out that they are basically taking a census

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Speaker 1: how many of you got, and the last response will

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Speaker 1: actually trigger a hormonal change in female coyotes who are

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Speaker 1: a reproductive age, and they will have more pups than

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Speaker 1: they would have if they got in a response to

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Speaker 1: their call. Unbelievable. Uh. They have their well talk about

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Speaker 1: their families in a sect, but they raise their young

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Speaker 1: in dens. Uh. Sometimes they will make their own den,

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Speaker 1: but a lot of times they will take over the

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Speaker 1: den of another animal and uh renovate it, make it

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Speaker 1: their own, usually expand it a little bigger, but a

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Speaker 1: little macromay. Yeah, maybe at a steam shower perhaps, Oh nice,

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Speaker 1: You never know. Uh. They returned to their dens if

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Speaker 1: they can, uh, year after year, if it's available, and

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Speaker 1: sometimes you will find them in weird places though, like

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Speaker 1: a drainage tunnel or in the cross space of a

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Speaker 1: house or something. But those are obviously urban coyotes. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and so they're their territory actually is. It can be

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Speaker 1: really big, it can be really small. It depends on

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Speaker 1: how dense their food sources are. Yeah, they're really uh

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Speaker 1: flexible yep, with with how they live their lives, like

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Speaker 1: in every single way, shape or form, so so much so.

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Speaker 1: I mean we talked about the fission and the fusion

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Speaker 1: um social structure. It's just this fluid social structure um

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Speaker 1: in the pack. The basic unit of of coyote society

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Speaker 1: is the family, the mother and the father, the two

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Speaker 1: alpha's and then their offspring or betas this gets really interesting,

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Speaker 1: and their offspring again, depending on the resources, they may

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Speaker 1: stick around and help raise another litter. Those are called helpers.

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Speaker 1: They may stick around and basically just mooch. They call

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Speaker 1: those slouches. Yes, slouches are the ones who come home

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Speaker 1: from Appalachian State spend a lot of time on the couch.

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Speaker 1: But they're they're they're in the pack. But it just

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Speaker 1: says here they're not contributing in any way basically. Yeah, um,

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Speaker 1: and then so some some beata's depending like if food

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Speaker 1: starts to get scarce or whatever, some alphaals will be

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Speaker 1: like you, you need to go. It's time for you

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Speaker 1: to go find your own territory, of your own range.

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Speaker 1: Go be a loner, Go find a mate, just get

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Speaker 1: out of the basement basically. Um. But other times they

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Speaker 1: might be allowed to stay, depending on the food sources.

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Speaker 1: And and that's where that fusion and fission kicks in.

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Speaker 1: That's right. Uh, all right, maybe we should take a

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Speaker 1: break here and we'll talk about loner coyotes right after this.

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Speaker 1: M alright, we're back, and we were talking about the

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Speaker 1: pack size, how it can shift depending on the resources. Uh,

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Speaker 1: there are also lone or coyotes. Maybe their beta they

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Speaker 1: get kicked off the couch finally, or maybe they are

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Speaker 1: an aged out alpha. Um. And like I said, if

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Speaker 1: you see a coyote by him or herself, that doesn't

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Speaker 1: mean maybe I should say itself doesn't necessarily mean they're rabid.

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Speaker 1: Because you get on these Facebook neighborhood pages and there's

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Speaker 1: coyote sites sightings, and people lose their minds and give

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Speaker 1: out a lot of bad information. It goes both ways.

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Speaker 1: People are either like say kill them, kill it, kill

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Speaker 1: it with fire as fast as you can, or else.

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Speaker 1: Other people are like, well, I've been feeding it for

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Speaker 1: the last couple of weeks. It's nice. It likes to

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Speaker 1: come play with my dogs, right, Or it's out during

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Speaker 1: the day it's so it's rabid for sure, or it

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Speaker 1: was by itself, so it was rabid. There aren't There

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Speaker 1: haven't been big outbreaks of rabid cavities and many many,

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Speaker 1: many years. Yeah, apparently they made a concerted effort to

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Speaker 1: eradicate rabies among coyotes and so not just coyotes, but

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Speaker 1: I think mammals in the wild in general. And so

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Speaker 1: they started basically dropping vaccines bait basically but vaccinated. Would

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Speaker 1: you say wolf bait? I don't think that's a widely

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Speaker 1: known term that My buddy Eddie, he's just say that

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Speaker 1: for farting, he's dropping wolf baite. He might have made

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Speaker 1: that up. So imagine if that was vaccinated, that's what

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Speaker 1: they were doing, and um, dropping wolf baite, that's that's

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Speaker 1: good stuff. I gotta say, it's nice, haven't Josh t

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Speaker 1: laughing over there? Not? Jerry's just permanent lack of care,

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Speaker 1: no idea, no idea. Um. So they actually managed to

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Speaker 1: largely get rid of rabies among coyotes from what we understand. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so maybe we should talk about the beginnings. Go ahead,

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Speaker 1: I was gonna say, but they do finally carry distemper,

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Speaker 1: and they can carry rabies. Is not to say like

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Speaker 1: there are rabbid coyotes. It's just not a big problem.

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Speaker 1: And one of those Facebook commenters I quoted saying that

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Speaker 1: it likes to come play with my dogs. That actually happens.

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Speaker 1: Coyotes are known to play with dogs. That's how Carmine,

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Speaker 1: the rare black um coyote was trapped. He made friends

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Speaker 1: with a Great Pyrenees in Smyrna and was playing around

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Speaker 1: and like they finally set up some traps in the

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Speaker 1: yard and he fell for one of them. Um. Those

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Speaker 1: Pyrenees are beautiful dogs, they really are. But um, that

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Speaker 1: pyrenees hopefully had distemper vaccine because just playing with the coyote,

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Speaker 1: it can be it can it can get distemper and

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Speaker 1: that's something you want your dog to have. No, not

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Speaker 1: at all. So uh, let's talk a little bit about

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Speaker 1: the beginnings of the coyotes. They were, or at least

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Speaker 1: what we think is that coyotes and wolves and then

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Speaker 1: now extinct. Uh, other kind of dog basically were around,

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Speaker 1: and they were sort of the starting point for what

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Speaker 1: are counties and wolves, but they were apparently much more

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Speaker 1: like coyotes and wolves. So they generally think that counties

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Speaker 1: were sort of the the o G evolutionarily speaking, right right.

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Speaker 1: I saw also that, um, there's a line of thinking

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Speaker 1: that they descended from red wolves whose range still is

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Speaker 1: over the southeast in Texas. I think there's still a

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Speaker 1: few around today. Um. But the the however they started

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Speaker 1: it happened anywhere from I think two million years ago

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Speaker 1: to three hundred thousand years ago. Coyotes evolved, and again

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Speaker 1: here in North America. This is there there um home continent.

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Speaker 1: But as they started to evolve, the ones that first

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Speaker 1: came along were bigger and um, heavier than the coyotes

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Speaker 1: we know today. But the problem is is they were

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Speaker 1: in direct competition be based on their size with wolves,

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Speaker 1: and wolves are and have always been much more aggressive hunters.

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Speaker 1: They don't tolerate other aggressive predators in their range, so

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Speaker 1: they'll go after a coyote. And so this is really interesting.

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Speaker 1: Over over the years, um, just from living with wolves,

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Speaker 1: coyotes apparently started to shrink down in size so that

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Speaker 1: they could fill an ecological niche that had been left

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Speaker 1: open rodents and rabbits, which wolves don't care that much about.

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Speaker 1: Wolves want to take down like caribo and elk, and

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Speaker 1: they hunt in packs exclusively. They don't care about rabbits, right,

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Speaker 1: So that that left the rabbits to the coyotes and

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Speaker 1: kyotes kind of shrunk in size and started going after that.

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Speaker 1: And then one other thing that happened to Chuck was

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Speaker 1: that meant that because they were confronting wolves, the coyotes

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Speaker 1: that were more aggressive and went after wolves or went

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Speaker 1: to go fight wolves when wolves are around, they died out,

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Speaker 1: which left just the timid ones, right. Yeah, so coyotes.

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Speaker 1: That's why you won't fighting coyotes that are super rest

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Speaker 1: of these days, because in order to survive the wolf Challenge. Uh,

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Speaker 1: there's another good band name. The Challenge is an amazing

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Speaker 1: band that's not bad. There's a lot of wolf band

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Speaker 1: zoh Will Parade and wolf Mother other Wolves. That's not

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Speaker 1: the name of the band of other wolves. There might

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Speaker 1: be it could be. Um. Yeah, so those those are

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Speaker 1: the ones that stuck around. Uh. And like we said,

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Speaker 1: cooties are that's just another example of how bad they

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Speaker 1: want to survive. UM. These days, they are listed as

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00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:37,320
Speaker 1: a species of Least concern, which means don't we don't

420
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:40,760
Speaker 1: have to do anything nothing, no conservation efforts whatsoever. The

421
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:46,880
Speaker 1: only conservation effort that has been uh hung on coyotes

422
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:49,960
Speaker 1: is that there's a law that says we we are

423
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:52,720
Speaker 1: not allowed to drive them to extinction, which is a

424
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:56,520
Speaker 1: reversal of original policies. We'll see, should we go ahead

425
00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:59,680
Speaker 1: and talk about that. So, yeah, there was a policy,

426
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:03,560
Speaker 1: uh when was it in the nineteen thirties, starting in

427
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:06,520
Speaker 1: the nineteenth century, I think, okay, where they basically said,

428
00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:10,040
Speaker 1: I mean a lot of it was sensationalist journalism, but

429
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:13,320
Speaker 1: that basically that coyotes were the scourge of the earth

430
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:16,280
Speaker 1: and they will kill every chicken and every sheep on

431
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:19,080
Speaker 1: your and every cow and your property and your horses,

432
00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:21,320
Speaker 1: and we gotta get rid of them all. Yeah. So

433
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:26,320
Speaker 1: basically it was a response to um Anglo American ranchers,

434
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:31,679
Speaker 1: well actually any American ranchers moving westward, UM farming cattle

435
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:34,439
Speaker 1: and sheep and all that um. And they were just

436
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,640
Speaker 1: being predated on by wolves. So really they went after

437
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:41,960
Speaker 1: wolves first, and they were really successful at almost driving

438
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:45,679
Speaker 1: all wolves to extinction because wolves hunting packs, and so

439
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:48,720
Speaker 1: if you kill enough wolves, they don't have enough wolves

440
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:50,880
Speaker 1: to hunt in that pack any longer, and the remaining

441
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:54,280
Speaker 1: survivors starved to death. Right, So they really worked at

442
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,440
Speaker 1: getting rid of wolves, and it was really effective. Coyotes

443
00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:01,440
Speaker 1: were less effective, but they started the coyotes started preying

444
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 1: on the um the prey that the wolves were no

445
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:07,639
Speaker 1: longer around to prey on. So they went after coyotes

446
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:10,680
Speaker 1: and they went after him big time. They killed hundreds

447
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 1: of thousands, millions and millions and millions of coyotes over

448
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:18,200
Speaker 1: the years with like sponsored I think they uh, they said, Congress,

449
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:20,480
Speaker 1: give us ten million dollars for the next ten years

450
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:23,600
Speaker 1: and we'll take care of them all right. And about

451
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:29,080
Speaker 1: the same time, so that was the Biological Survey the

452
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:34,119
Speaker 1: Eradication Methods Laboratory of the Bureau of Biological Survey. Um.

453
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:36,639
Speaker 1: They basically said, we're going to start coming up with

454
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:40,439
Speaker 1: strict nine pills and like um little misters that shoot

455
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 1: um cyanide in the coyotes face. And they were lacing

456
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 1: carcasses with all this poison and they were killing off

457
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 1: all sorts of other animals too, but no one cared

458
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:54,320
Speaker 1: because everyone hated the coyotes so much that that they

459
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 1: just didn't care how many other animals died, just as

460
00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,359
Speaker 1: long as we were getting rid of the coyotes. But

461
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:02,480
Speaker 1: around that time biologists started to be like, wait a minute,

462
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 1: I'm not entirely certain it's a good idea to get

463
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:08,960
Speaker 1: rid of predators or any kind of animal that we

464
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,159
Speaker 1: find a nuisance, Like, that's probably not the way we

465
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:14,000
Speaker 1: should be doing things. Yeah. And it also coincided with

466
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:18,959
Speaker 1: um sort of an anti poison movement where people were like,

467
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 1: wait a minute, maybe we shouldn't be putting poison all

468
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:25,400
Speaker 1: over our forests for just any old animal to die

469
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 1: if it comes near it. Yeah, And that was the

470
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:29,439
Speaker 1: around the thirties, at the beginning of the thirties. But

471
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:32,720
Speaker 1: the the the government said no, we're getting rid of

472
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:36,320
Speaker 1: We're getting rid of coyotes. The ranchers interests are above

473
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 1: the coyotes interests. Yeah, big money, you know, talking right.

474
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 1: So not only did they poison them, they would shoot

475
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 1: them from airplanes and helicopters and still today apparently killed

476
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:49,359
Speaker 1: tens of thousands of coyotes by shooting at them from

477
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:53,439
Speaker 1: helicopters like taxpayer funded programs do that. Yeah, they they

478
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:56,359
Speaker 1: definitely are still culling coyotes and cooties are still giving

479
00:27:56,400 --> 00:28:00,080
Speaker 1: them a little skinny paw middle finger. Right. So I

480
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 1: have the seventies Richard Nixon apparently banned the use of poisons,

481
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:08,160
Speaker 1: had no idea about that, signed the Endangered Species Act

482
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:11,120
Speaker 1: of nineteen seventy three, and that gave the coyotes enough

483
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:13,720
Speaker 1: breathing room to basically say, Okay, we're not going to

484
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:18,280
Speaker 1: go extinct. But here's the thing. Because we were so

485
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:21,679
Speaker 1: successful at wiping out wolves, the coyotes, which have been

486
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:27,480
Speaker 1: limited almost exclusively to the southwestern United States sir to

487
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:31,680
Speaker 1: spread and where the wolves had once been, Coyotes started

488
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 1: popping up in places they had never been seen before,

489
00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:38,240
Speaker 1: southeastern United States. There, They've been spotted in Central America

490
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:40,560
Speaker 1: at this point. They were found in nineteen forty on

491
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 1: the Apostle Islands in Wisconsin, which is, at least from

492
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:47,480
Speaker 1: what I could tell, half a mile swim from the mainland.

493
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 1: And apparently they're pretty good swimmers too. Um. And then

494
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 1: they started to move into the suburbs, and then they

495
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:55,760
Speaker 1: started to move into the cities, and now today, there's

496
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:59,959
Speaker 1: a guy at Ohio State named Stanley Girt who specializes

497
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:05,720
Speaker 1: in studying coyotes in Chicago. Downtown Chicago has hundreds of

498
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:09,280
Speaker 1: coyotes living in alleyways and crevasses and all sorts of

499
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:11,960
Speaker 1: places right out of sight of human beings. And they

500
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 1: just come out at night and they've learned how to

501
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:16,960
Speaker 1: navigate traffic and just basically stay out of side. Oh,

502
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,560
Speaker 1: if you look, if you just type in urban cooties

503
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:22,560
Speaker 1: to your favorite search engine and looked under images, there

504
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:25,600
Speaker 1: are pictures of coyotes like in the middle of like

505
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:29,840
Speaker 1: strip malls and with you know, casinos behind them, and

506
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:32,840
Speaker 1: like they're just everywhere. Like I'm surprised I haven't seen

507
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 1: one in Times Square at this point. Wasn't it in

508
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 1: Heat where they show that coyote like crossing the street

509
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 1: or crossing the highway? I haven't seen that so long.

510
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure it's in Heat. Good movie. Should we

511
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 1: take another break, Let's do it all right? More coy

512
00:29:45,840 --> 00:30:09,040
Speaker 1: out speak right after this. So just just to point

513
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 1: this out one more time, if you remember from our

514
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:15,320
Speaker 1: Lyme Disease episode, we've concluded that if we had no

515
00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:18,560
Speaker 1: wiped out wolves, ticks, wouldn't have been able to take

516
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 1: over and expand because the dear population wouldn't have exploded.

517
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 1: There would not be coyotes in Chicago right now if

518
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:28,320
Speaker 1: the wolf population was stable in the United States or

519
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 1: North America. Yeah, and coyotes also, we're able to live

520
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:34,880
Speaker 1: in and are able to live in urban environments, whereas

521
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 1: wolves could not. Oh no way. So they really were

522
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:42,520
Speaker 1: basically like, hey, we'll we'll go where the wolves won't go.

523
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 1: We'll eat what the wolves won't eat. We'll hunt by

524
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 1: ourselves because the wolves can't and uh, look at us,

525
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,360
Speaker 1: we're gonna we're gonna thrive. Yeah. And without wolves, there's

526
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 1: nothing to to keep them in check, to keep their

527
00:30:55,560 --> 00:31:01,280
Speaker 1: population in check. Angry facebookers. That's it basically, So that

528
00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:03,960
Speaker 1: whole eradication campaign has been put to the side. There's

529
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 1: definitely still lots of coyotes that are killed every year. Yeah.

530
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:09,320
Speaker 1: I think between two thousand and six and two thousand

531
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:12,400
Speaker 1: eleven they killed more than half a million coyotes legally.

532
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 1: I saw that there's a half a million that are

533
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:18,720
Speaker 1: killed a year still, Yeah, like one a minute every year.

534
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:22,239
Speaker 1: I've also seen thirty five thousand. I don't know if

535
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:25,200
Speaker 1: it's just certain divisions are responsible for like half a

536
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 1: million or maybe certain years they ramp up the efforts

537
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 1: more than others. I don't know, but they're there are

538
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 1: definitely still a tremendous amount of coyote deaths. But as

539
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 1: we've seen, coyotes have been um extremely successful in the

540
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:45,040
Speaker 1: face of this extermination campaign. Um, just by by reproducing

541
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 1: depending on the local population. Yeah. Yeah, And if you're

542
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 1: a rancher, you you don't have to be a part

543
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 1: of some program like you're you're taking care of things

544
00:31:55,120 --> 00:32:00,760
Speaker 1: in the rancher way, which is traps, guns, yeah, poison. Yeah.

545
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 1: There's no laws protecting coyotes whatsover. Again, the only law

546
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 1: as far as I know, I think it's part of

547
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:10,200
Speaker 1: the Endangered Species Act that says we're not allowed to

548
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:13,480
Speaker 1: drive coyotes to extinction. But that's it. You can kill

549
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 1: a coyote. The only things keeping you from shooting a

550
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 1: coyote like in city limits or gun ordinances. Basically, you

551
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:23,720
Speaker 1: can kill a coyote anyway you want. Um. But here's

552
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 1: the thing, go visit in the hospital. Um. But the

553
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 1: thing is is what they're starting to figure out now

554
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:37,240
Speaker 1: is because they're so successful that you don't actually want

555
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 1: to kill them. Killing them has this ripple effect through

556
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:45,080
Speaker 1: their society where they start reproducing more. And here's the

557
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:48,440
Speaker 1: other thing. If the coyote is still not if it's

558
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 1: not acting aggressively towards humans, if it hasn't started to

559
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 1: take pets, if you just know it's in the area

560
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:57,240
Speaker 1: but it's trying to keep its distance, you may actually

561
00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:00,440
Speaker 1: be better off with that coyote because if you get

562
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:03,560
Speaker 1: rid of that coyote, another coyote is going to move in,

563
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 1: and that coyote might be much more aggressive than the

564
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:09,160
Speaker 1: last one you just got rid of. Like, if you've

565
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:12,160
Speaker 1: got a decent neighbor, maybe that's good enough. So that's

566
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:14,880
Speaker 1: kind of like the idea that's dawning over people with

567
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:19,240
Speaker 1: coyote management is coyotes aren't going anywhere. They're staying put,

568
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 1: and the best you can hope for is one that

569
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 1: keeps this distance and is afraid of humans. Yeah, which

570
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 1: is generally what's going on in urban areas. Uh, when

571
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 1: we're talking about ranchers. The reason they're doing this is

572
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 1: not just because they hate coyotes, is that they lose

573
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:39,840
Speaker 1: a lot of um animals due to uh, these predators

574
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:43,960
Speaker 1: they that just sounded so mean. These predators. Uh, there's

575
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:45,840
Speaker 1: it's hard to get good stats. But the US d

576
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:49,440
Speaker 1: d A said in two thousand fifteen there was self reporting,

577
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:51,800
Speaker 1: which you always got to kind of wonder of thirty

578
00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 1: three thousand a little more in change of adult sheep,

579
00:33:55,760 --> 00:34:01,480
Speaker 1: four thousand lambs lost to coyotes, and again that self reported,

580
00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 1: So take it with a grain of salt. But there

581
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 1: they do lose a lot of animals and chickens and

582
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:09,479
Speaker 1: things like that. I've gone on my soapbox before about

583
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:12,600
Speaker 1: keeping your cats inside. I'm not gonna do that again

584
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 1: except to say keep your cats inside. Yeah, if you have,

585
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:17,640
Speaker 1: like you know, you're on the fence about keeping your

586
00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:20,640
Speaker 1: cats inside, you just watch some of the videos that

587
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:23,600
Speaker 1: you be seen, yeah, or just cats being taken. Do

588
00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 1: I want my cat to live several years longer? Because

589
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:29,520
Speaker 1: the statistics show that outdoor cats don't live as long.

590
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:32,960
Speaker 1: And not just that, um, not just with cats too,

591
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:36,239
Speaker 1: but also with dogs if you if they're coyotes in

592
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:38,000
Speaker 1: the area, and there's a really good chance there are

593
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 1: no matter where you live in the US, you um

594
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:43,839
Speaker 1: do not You should not leave your small dog, in

595
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:48,279
Speaker 1: particular outside unattended. You basically let them out, hang out

596
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:50,280
Speaker 1: with them, and then let them back in. You definitely

597
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:52,799
Speaker 1: don't leave them out at dusk or at dawn by

598
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:56,239
Speaker 1: themselves or overnight. That's right. Uh, we said that you

599
00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:58,160
Speaker 1: don't need to worry too much about being attacked as

600
00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:01,360
Speaker 1: a human. There were a couple of kind of grizzly cases.

601
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:04,960
Speaker 1: One that's just very difficult to even talk about, frankly.

602
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:08,000
Speaker 1: In nine, little three year old girl was dragged from

603
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:12,279
Speaker 1: her driveway in California and the dad did rescue her,

604
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 1: but she died as a result of her injuries from

605
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:18,560
Speaker 1: that fracas. In two thousand nine, there was a really

606
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:21,680
Speaker 1: strange thing in Canada where a nineteen year old woman

607
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 1: was stalked and killed by at least two coyotes while

608
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 1: hiking in the middle of the day. And this is

609
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:32,799
Speaker 1: apparently the only, like only adult human killed by coyotes

610
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 1: on record. So yeah, and the only explanation for that

611
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:38,000
Speaker 1: that I could possibly come up with is that she

612
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:41,120
Speaker 1: was around their den. It was around their pup raising time,

613
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:44,160
Speaker 1: right say, spring and summer is a pretty bad time

614
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:47,520
Speaker 1: to be around, getting real defensive of their turf. And

615
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 1: then thirdly that those were um mated with wolves. Uh.

616
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:54,560
Speaker 1: Interesting because when the coyotes will mate with dogs, they

617
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:57,799
Speaker 1: will mate with wolves. It's not like super widespread, but

618
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 1: it does happen in producing coy dogs and coy wolves.

619
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:04,279
Speaker 1: But the coy wolves in particular can be much more

620
00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:08,799
Speaker 1: aggressive than your standard coyote. Yeah, so I wonder if

621
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:11,840
Speaker 1: those three factors played a role in it. Probably it

622
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:14,000
Speaker 1: was definitely an outlier. It's it's very I mean, it's

623
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:16,160
Speaker 1: sad no matter what did that girl also, she was

624
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:18,160
Speaker 1: like an up and coming country singer, like on the

625
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:23,040
Speaker 1: verge of breaking out and Taylor Mitchell. Yeah yeah. So

626
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:28,120
Speaker 1: um they say, like we said that these kill couty

627
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:31,480
Speaker 1: programs don't even work that well and that there is

628
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:34,719
Speaker 1: uh their statistics to back up the fact that, um,

629
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:39,399
Speaker 1: non lethal methods of county control or more effective, which

630
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:43,680
Speaker 1: we're talking about scaring them, like wind chimes and air horns.

631
00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 1: They're really skitty and jumpy, So if you make a

632
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:48,560
Speaker 1: lot of noise in front of a county they're probably

633
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:51,759
Speaker 1: gonna bolt. Yeah, it's called hazing. Yeah, and you don't

634
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:57,080
Speaker 1: like anytime you see a coyote around your area really anywhere,

635
00:36:57,160 --> 00:36:59,759
Speaker 1: just be a good neighbor. You want to haze them,

636
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:02,839
Speaker 1: do you not just let it happen? Don't just let

637
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:05,360
Speaker 1: it pass by? Like, you need to take that opportunity

638
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:09,520
Speaker 1: to haze them, to keep them feeling insecure, more secure. Right,

639
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:13,759
Speaker 1: The more secure uh a coyote feels, the more the

640
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:17,560
Speaker 1: more um audacious, embrazen, they're going to become coming into

641
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:19,759
Speaker 1: your yard trying to take your your dog or your cat.

642
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:22,279
Speaker 1: So you want to haze them every chance you get

643
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:24,680
Speaker 1: so that they know to stay over there. This is

644
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:27,400
Speaker 1: their turf, this is your turf. Right, So if you

645
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:30,000
Speaker 1: have an umbrella, you want to open the umbrella. This

646
00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:34,640
Speaker 1: says to pick up your small dog. Um, I've also

647
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:37,279
Speaker 1: read right, I've also read you don't want to do

648
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:39,239
Speaker 1: that because you make yourself small when you do that,

649
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:41,400
Speaker 1: and you when when when you're hazing a kyote, you

650
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:43,279
Speaker 1: want to make yourself as big as possible. What do

651
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:45,799
Speaker 1: you mean yourself? When you squat down to pick up

652
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:48,759
Speaker 1: your dog, you seem smaller than you do standing up

653
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 1: with your arms spread, but do it very quickly. Well,

654
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:53,520
Speaker 1: But the better thing to do is keep your dog

655
00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:58,399
Speaker 1: on a non flexi lead, like a straight leash. It's

656
00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:00,840
Speaker 1: no more than like six ft and things. Just keep it,

657
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:02,640
Speaker 1: just pull it back close to you while you're like

658
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:06,160
Speaker 1: waving your arm and shouting at the kyote to go away. Yeah.

659
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:08,280
Speaker 1: And I also thought it was funny that Ed pointed

660
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:10,200
Speaker 1: out that like even if you have a big dog

661
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:14,680
Speaker 1: that could like kill a coyote, Like, is someone gonna say, like, oh,

662
00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:16,800
Speaker 1: I think you can take them, go get him zeus?

663
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:20,960
Speaker 1: Yeah maybe not, some people would know. You never know.

664
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:25,560
Speaker 1: Have you seen those Irish wolfhounds. M sure they're like

665
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:29,400
Speaker 1: the largest, the largest dogs. Yeah, wolfhounds. They're like bread

666
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:32,759
Speaker 1: to take on wolves, So they could take on a coyote.

667
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:35,319
Speaker 1: I could see that having that temptation be like, yeah,

668
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:38,440
Speaker 1: my dog really could take on this coyote. Maybe what

669
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 1: did I? Oh? No, that was dingoes that petted in Australia.

670
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:45,120
Speaker 1: Of course, that they were coyotes is not North America.

671
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:49,239
Speaker 1: But dingoes were a little they weren't dogs either, And

672
00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:51,839
Speaker 1: and it was like foxes No, I mean they look

673
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:53,880
Speaker 1: like dogs, but when you're around them, and this was

674
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:56,000
Speaker 1: at a place where you can hold koalas and stuff

675
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 1: like that, it was obvious that it's not a dog. No,

676
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:02,399
Speaker 1: they're wild dogs right, Well not I don't even think

677
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 1: they're wild dogs. Um or maybe I mean they're they're

678
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:09,920
Speaker 1: totally related. But I just remember getting the sense um

679
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:11,920
Speaker 1: Scotty and I both did my friend that was with me,

680
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 1: um whom you know, they just there was a certain

681
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:20,960
Speaker 1: the way they carried themselves. And I'm just like, you're

682
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 1: not a dog. It literally is a dog Canus lupus dingo.

683
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:28,759
Speaker 1: So it's a subspecies of like dogs. Yeah, but what

684
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:31,160
Speaker 1: I was saying, not a dog, like not a domesticated dog,

685
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:34,319
Speaker 1: wild dog. Yeah, you could just tell the difference. And

686
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:37,720
Speaker 1: I'm sure the same is true with coyotes because coit dogs,

687
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:42,200
Speaker 1: like you said, are things. Look at that cute little dingo. Um.

688
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:47,000
Speaker 1: Coit dogs are in kit puppies are super adorable and

689
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:50,160
Speaker 1: technically you can raise one and even a full county

690
00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 1: if you get it as a puppy, you could have

691
00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:54,919
Speaker 1: it as a pet. It's not a good idea because

692
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:59,120
Speaker 1: they are coyotes and the cody's gonna coyote. H it

693
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:01,920
Speaker 1: has happened there or you know, you see those eccentric

694
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:05,000
Speaker 1: people out there that have like a pet coyote. It's

695
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:08,919
Speaker 1: the thing, but it's just not a good idea. They're unpredictable. Yeah,

696
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 1: you don't want to like get a cat companion for him.

697
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:18,760
Speaker 1: Um in the United States. So uh, the coyotes image

698
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 1: has really gone through some weird transitions. Early on had

699
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:27,640
Speaker 1: a really bad reputation UM and apparently was made way

700
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:29,880
Speaker 1: worse by Mark Twain when he wrote rough in It

701
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:33,239
Speaker 1: in seventy two. There were a few pages dedicated to

702
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:36,399
Speaker 1: how lowly a coyote is, and everybody was like, yeah,

703
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:39,560
Speaker 1: we hate coyotes from that point on. But that actually

704
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:44,200
Speaker 1: followed in partially this view that had been around for

705
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:49,200
Speaker 1: ages that Native Americans had of coyotes, not necessarily that

706
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:51,880
Speaker 1: it was a lowly animal, but that it was a trickster,

707
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:56,319
Speaker 1: kind of like a brare rabbit type. UM. But then

708
00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:59,799
Speaker 1: he was also in some with some some groups like

709
00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:03,040
Speaker 1: the Creator God, the Creator Deity. There's all sorts of

710
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:06,840
Speaker 1: different roles that the coyote played in Native American mythologies,

711
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:09,960
Speaker 1: because there were so many different Native American mythologies. But

712
00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:15,399
Speaker 1: it was very prominent in Southwestern tribes UM mythologies, and

713
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:20,719
Speaker 1: very frequently as a trickster, very frequently. Yeah, good stuff. Yeah,

714
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:23,719
Speaker 1: I don't have anything else. I don't believe I do either.

715
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:28,160
Speaker 1: If you see a coyote, Hayes, it really shouldn't kill it, like,

716
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:31,120
Speaker 1: make sure that it's kept on its feet and insecure

717
00:41:32,239 --> 00:41:34,759
Speaker 1: your Petzil. Thank you. If you want to know more

718
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:38,040
Speaker 1: about coyotes, go look up a coyote standing in a

719
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:41,080
Speaker 1: tree and that will really set you off. Since I

720
00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:45,560
Speaker 1: said that it's time for listener mail, I'm gonna call

721
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:50,920
Speaker 1: this grizzly trigger warning email. Has to do with our

722
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:54,120
Speaker 1: body under the Bed episode, So you know, if you're

723
00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:57,600
Speaker 1: not into listening to this kind of stuff, tune it out. Hey,

724
00:41:57,600 --> 00:41:59,640
Speaker 1: guys listening to the body into the Bed episode, and

725
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:03,440
Speaker 1: was reminded of a similar awful case in Jacksonville, Florida,

726
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:07,480
Speaker 1: where I live. In my neighborhood, an eight year old girl, Maddie,

727
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:11,040
Speaker 1: disappeared while playing outside one afternoon and year yard her yard.

728
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:13,840
Speaker 1: Long story short. Her neighbor Josh Phillips, who was fourteen

729
00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:16,440
Speaker 1: at the time, was playing with her and accidentally hit

730
00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:19,520
Speaker 1: her in the head, she said, with a baseball bat

731
00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:22,640
Speaker 1: injuring her. I looked into this. Apparently the story was

732
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:25,920
Speaker 1: she threw the ball, he hit the ball, and the

733
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:28,840
Speaker 1: ball hit her in the face. She started bleeding and crying.

734
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:32,280
Speaker 1: He and this is me talking now, not the email.

735
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:34,960
Speaker 1: He freaked out because his dad was an abusive alcoholic

736
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:37,200
Speaker 1: and he was afraid his dad was gonna come home

737
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:40,600
Speaker 1: and see what he'd done, so he panicked back to

738
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:43,920
Speaker 1: the email. He ended up killing her to keep her

739
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:47,200
Speaker 1: quiet and stashing her body in the cavern beneath his

740
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:50,719
Speaker 1: water bed on the second floor of his house, and

741
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:53,280
Speaker 1: the eight days that follow, a massive community effort ensued

742
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:57,480
Speaker 1: to locate her, and Josh, her murderer, even participated in this,

743
00:42:57,640 --> 00:43:00,239
Speaker 1: handing out flyers. He slept in that bed for seven

744
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:02,719
Speaker 1: nights over her body. Police had even searched the home

745
00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:05,600
Speaker 1: several times, and the odor in his room was attributed

746
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:08,560
Speaker 1: to many pet birds and cages he had and a

747
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:12,839
Speaker 1: typical fourteen year old boy funk. Uh not a bad

748
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:16,759
Speaker 1: band name either. She was discovered when they searched a

749
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:21,279
Speaker 1: terrible four general boyfunk. Typical fourteen year old boyfunk. Well, no,

750
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:24,839
Speaker 1: I just think boyfunk. Maybe none of that's good. I'd

751
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:27,880
Speaker 1: take it all back. She was discovered when they searched

752
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:31,360
Speaker 1: the home again and noticed a stain on the ceiling

753
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:34,719
Speaker 1: on the floor below his room. Um, I thought it

754
00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 1: was a blood stain. But I looked it up. I

755
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:38,080
Speaker 1: think it was a leak from the waterbed and stained

756
00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:42,440
Speaker 1: and that fortuitously led to finding her. He remains in prison,

757
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:44,880
Speaker 1: which has always been a big debate here when it

758
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:49,680
Speaker 1: comes up for parole um. Just reason happened, m I

759
00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:51,880
Speaker 1: looked it up. I think this was in ninety eight

760
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:54,480
Speaker 1: and he was fourteen. Wow. Wow, he's been in prison

761
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:56,960
Speaker 1: the whole time. Huh. Yeah, and it was. It's a

762
00:43:57,080 --> 00:43:59,200
Speaker 1: very tough thing because you know, his father was an

763
00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:01,680
Speaker 1: abuse of alcohol. Like he reacted because he was afraid

764
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:03,359
Speaker 1: that he was going to come home and find him out,

765
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:06,439
Speaker 1: and freaked out and hit this girl with a baseball bat,

766
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:08,920
Speaker 1: put her under the bed, and when he found that

767
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 1: she was still making noise, this gets really bad. He

768
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:14,360
Speaker 1: stabbed her like eleven times and killed her. So it

769
00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:18,200
Speaker 1: is just a sad, sad, tragic case all the way around.

770
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:22,000
Speaker 1: That is from Mary. She said, I love the show

771
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:24,360
Speaker 1: and have my husband hooked now too. She said, the

772
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:26,920
Speaker 1: trauma then emotions of those eight days is something I

773
00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:31,359
Speaker 1: will never ever forget. Yeah, very tough case. I don't

774
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:33,879
Speaker 1: know if thanks as appropriate, Mary, but I can't think

775
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 1: of anything else to say. Yeah, I don't even know

776
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:38,160
Speaker 1: why I decided to read that. That was really sort

777
00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:41,319
Speaker 1: of caught me, caught my attention. Yeah, I can see

778
00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:43,719
Speaker 1: how Chuck. Well, if you want to get in touch

779
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:49,360
Speaker 1: with us like Mary did, don't. If you want to anyway,

780
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:52,719
Speaker 1: you can send us an email to Stuff podcast did

781
00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:58,360
Speaker 1: i heeart radio dot com. Stuff You Should Know is

782
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:00,719
Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radio's How Stuff Works. For

783
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:03,479
Speaker 1: more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app,

784
00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:06,160
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

785
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:13,080
Speaker 1: M m hm hm