Speaker 1: Hi, Catherine, greetings from Portugal.
Speaker 2: Hi, how are you?
Speaker 1: Hi? Am good, how are you doing.
Speaker 2: I'm doing fantastic.
Speaker 3: I am just taking the day off of work today,
Speaker 3: actually after this, so it's for this.
Speaker 4: I just drove two and a half hours with my cousin,
Speaker 4: her lover and their daughter who had diarrhea.
Speaker 5: On the side of the road by a free We
Speaker 5: took us about forty seven minutes to get all of
Speaker 5: our luggage in the trunk.
Speaker 4: My tour European tour officially ended last night. I did
Speaker 4: my last show in Libs. In Libs in Lisbon, I
Speaker 4: developed the lisp. I had my last show in lis
Speaker 4: Boa is liz Boa. That's how they say it there,
Speaker 4: liz Boa in Lisbon.
Speaker 5: And I was very tipsy on stage last night because
Speaker 5: we were celebrating all day.
Speaker 1: We were walking.
Speaker 5: We'd stop and we got Moscow mules, and then we
Speaker 5: had sang Gria, and then by the time we got
Speaker 5: to the show, things are the reals. The wheels really
Speaker 5: came off. So it was a perfect way to end
Speaker 5: my tour. We had the best time and the audiences
Speaker 5: in Europe. I'm so appreciative of everybody who came out.
Speaker 5: It was such a fucking blast. And I've never walked
Speaker 5: so much in my life.
Speaker 2: And did you think that you'd be going on tour
Speaker 2: with a toddler?
Speaker 1: I mean, was that I did not? She wanted she
Speaker 1: had to come on stage last night too.
Speaker 5: She always wants to come on stage, and so we
Speaker 5: told her if she came on stage and said you're
Speaker 5: a fucking bitch, that she could come on stage. But
Speaker 5: so she was practicing backstage, but then she wouldn't do
Speaker 5: it when she got on stage, which is probably for
Speaker 5: the best.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a lot, it's a lot.
Speaker 1: But she loves it.
Speaker 5: She loves She's like every night when she goes to sleep,
Speaker 5: she's like, is there a show tonight? Can I go
Speaker 5: on stage? She They joined us like halfway through the tour.
Speaker 5: So yeah, it was pretty it was pretty funny. I'm
Speaker 5: just so glad I don't have children.
Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Yes, you get like little bites, you know, little taste.
Speaker 5: Amount of times I mean, the patience that's required, the
Speaker 5: amount of times you hear the word mommy. In one hour,
Speaker 5: it's like nine hundred times mommy, mommy, mommy, mommy. I'm like,
Speaker 5: oh my god, oh my god, I can't believe I
Speaker 5: understand why people lose their fucking shit.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and also like daddy's there too, so it could
Speaker 3: be daddy daddy too, but nope, it's always Mommy.
Speaker 1: It's always Yeah, she's even. She's like her my niece
Speaker 1: is like in a relationship with her father. They're like
Speaker 1: they're like a couple.
Speaker 5: And then Molly comes in and like sports every Molly
Speaker 5: comes in and just shames everybody about everything.
Speaker 1: Everyone got sick at some point except for me. Luckily,
Speaker 1: knock on my gun. That was good. The two of
Speaker 1: them were very.
Speaker 5: Hungover this morning, and I was at the gym like
Speaker 5: I always am. She's like, wow, you really are an alcoholic.
Speaker 5: She's like, you can survive anything. I'm like, you just
Speaker 5: need to shoot up what I'm shooting up? Okay, I
Speaker 5: take all these peptides I'm taking because I can handle
Speaker 5: almost anything.
Speaker 2: Yes, So do you get to have a little vacation now?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 2: Now I'm in Portugal.
Speaker 5: I'm at my friend's fiftieth birthday weekend. So I'm here
Speaker 5: for about four or five days. And I've never been
Speaker 5: here before. The all Golf Coast. I've been a Portugal
Speaker 5: a bunch, but never here, so we'll see what happens.
Speaker 5: I mean, any possible anything.
Speaker 1: It's great.
Speaker 2: Get you have earned it. It's time for some time
Speaker 2: off and you.
Speaker 1: Get to just hill a little bit. Thank you, thank you,
Speaker 1: thank you. Okay, So who do we have coming up today?
Speaker 3: Well, today we have the lovely Maren Morris, who has
Speaker 3: a new album called Dreamsickle.
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 5: I love Mary Morris and I bumped into her on
Speaker 5: a television show. So this is perfect timing that we
Speaker 5: had her on I like and when she said fuck
Speaker 5: you to country music for to not being accepting or
Speaker 5: for well, there was a bevy of reasons, but it
Speaker 5: was basically directed at their sexism, misogyny and you know, homophobia.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: No, she is cute, she's smart, she is fun, she
Speaker 2: knows her mind.
Speaker 1: She was a great guest, So okay, bring her on.
Speaker 1: Welcome to Morris. Everybody is hi, Marin. I'm happy to
Speaker 1: see you. I'm good. How are you doing?
Speaker 6: Long time?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 5: See, well we just ran into each other at one
Speaker 5: of those shows. I don't want to say the wrong
Speaker 5: one though, So I'm scared. Is it access Hollywood or
Speaker 5: is it to I think I access Hollywood? I mean
Speaker 5: I should know because I know the girls there as
Speaker 5: whenever I roam through there, so I don't want to
Speaker 5: insult them by saying the wrong show. So if I
Speaker 5: do whatever, it's on me, Maarn, It's all on me,
Speaker 5: you know what.
Speaker 6: It was fun.
Speaker 5: I was so happy to see you because I met
Speaker 5: you years and years ago, as we discussed, when Maren
Speaker 5: was opening for Keith Urban and I was doing my
Speaker 5: Netflix show, so that was probably like almost ten years ago.
Speaker 1: I interviewed you on a tour bus.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and you were a little baby and you didn't
Speaker 5: have a baby yet, and now you have a baby
Speaker 5: and you're not a baby anymore. But what I really
Speaker 5: have respected about you is how outspoken you are. It
Speaker 5: really is amazing to see when you said basically fuck
Speaker 5: you to country music. And I know you weren't saying
Speaker 5: fuck you to country music, but you were saying fuck
Speaker 5: you to really the industry of country music.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 7: I think mostly just like the pillars of establishment, where
Speaker 7: it's these pockets of like MAGA infiltration since twenty sixteen,
Speaker 7: which is truly like when I guess we met, it's
Speaker 7: just taken the a nose dives and it's not everyone
Speaker 7: in that world like there's tons of people. I live
Speaker 7: in Nashville, so I mean, I haven't like become an
Speaker 7: expat of every facet of this.
Speaker 6: I love living here, but yeah, I.
Speaker 7: Mean it's certainly just tough to sort of want to
Speaker 7: make music you love and then deliver it to a
Speaker 7: space that feels safe and inclusive and you know, celebratory.
Speaker 7: So I think I just had to sort of go
Speaker 7: back to the drying board and figure out like what
Speaker 7: I truly wanted to do.
Speaker 1: And how did you come to that decision?
Speaker 5: Was that just your own Like did you have to
Speaker 5: discuss this with anybody in your life before you were
Speaker 5: public about it? Or is this something that you just
Speaker 5: felt so passionately about that you had to say something.
Speaker 7: I mean, I think it was becoming more galvanized, as
Speaker 7: you know, the pandemic was stretching on, and we were
Speaker 7: just trying to figure out how to tour again and
Speaker 7: a safe way. And I think it just really like
Speaker 7: opened up a lot of blind spots of like people
Speaker 7: I worked with and just the community here and most
Speaker 7: of it is so like supportive and loving, but I
Speaker 7: did I did have to kind of figure out, like
Speaker 7: what do I want to do going forward? Musically, which
Speaker 7: you know, I think I've always been a blurred genre
Speaker 7: line kind of artist because I'm just more about like
Speaker 7: the songwriting element and like it comes out how it
Speaker 7: comes out. But yeah, I think just making some like
Speaker 7: intentional decisions on where I like send this music to.
Speaker 7: And you know, the thing is is like I'm always
Speaker 7: going to.
Speaker 6: Love country music.
Speaker 7: It's so tied into my DNA of how I listen
Speaker 7: to music, how I write music. It's all through this
Speaker 7: like portal of like the Nashville way of right songs,
Speaker 7: co writing, lyrical structure, the like abab of it all.
Speaker 7: That's I can't like, I don't want to get rid
Speaker 7: of that part of myself. I love country music's honesty
Speaker 7: and like telling real people's stories. But I always go
Speaker 7: back to this interview in like the late eighties of
Speaker 7: the Highwaymen. So it's like Johnny Cash, Willie Nelson, Christofferson
Speaker 7: Waylan and they're all talking about like funding public education
Speaker 7: over you know, excessive military spending, and you know, just
Speaker 7: giving back to the poor and the elderly, like these
Speaker 7: icons these outlaws, which a lot of these people will
Speaker 7: wear on a T shirt like they don't remember what
Speaker 7: these dudes were fucking talking about.
Speaker 6: From day one.
Speaker 7: And that's country music to me, which is like writing
Speaker 7: for the oppressed and writing about those stories.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I feel like that's analogous to like how I
Speaker 5: feel about America, you know what I mean, Like the
Speaker 5: integrity with which it was founded or with the ideals
Speaker 5: of what it was always meant to become is probably
Speaker 5: you can say the same about country music, Like nobody's
Speaker 5: nothing is founded on hate and bigotry and exclusivity. Things
Speaker 5: are founded on love and spreading joy and messaging and inclusivity.
Speaker 1: And yet somehow we get miired, you know.
Speaker 5: Like industries can get miired in this way of thinking
Speaker 5: and then they can become dominated by that. And like
Speaker 5: that's how it feels like in our country. Even though
Speaker 5: I don't feel like we're being dominated by hate, there's
Speaker 5: enough out there that it feels that way. I always
Speaker 5: want to err on the side of love and believe
Speaker 5: that there are more good than there are bad people.
Speaker 5: So I'm just going to choose to continue to think
Speaker 5: that way for the time being.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean, I think I will always have this
Speaker 7: like intrinsic hope and ambition that I mean, humankind is
Speaker 7: truly just wanting to feel listened to and connected to
Speaker 7: one another. I think, yeah, when other like ulterior motives
Speaker 7: get cropped in, it's just I mean, music and the
Speaker 7: arts are a mirror of society. And so when I
Speaker 7: saw what was going on within the establishment of like
Speaker 7: mainstream country music, not so much like Outlaw or Americana,
Speaker 7: it was like a lot of these rich guys caused
Speaker 7: playing as cowboys with like six thousand dollars ya sell
Speaker 7: boots that have never touched dirt.
Speaker 6: It's like, what's the saying where it's like those boys are.
Speaker 7: All hat and no cattle. That's like, that's kind of
Speaker 7: what was happening. And I mean, like it's just interesting
Speaker 7: because I feel like at the end of the day,
Speaker 7: we're all just trying to like live and let live.
Speaker 7: And I think there's a nationalistic element to America and
Speaker 7: parts of country music where it's like this is ours,
Speaker 7: not theirs, and that's just not a vibe I want
Speaker 7: to be a part of. I want to be like inclusive,
Speaker 7: and that only makes for better music also when you
Speaker 7: invite inclusivity and diversity into it.
Speaker 6: Because some of my.
Speaker 7: Favorite collaborations over like the decades have been those out
Speaker 7: of left fields duets, like when Willie and rach Charles
Speaker 7: did their collap together, it was just like so refreshing
Speaker 7: and it just opened up for better music to come
Speaker 7: in and Russian and so I think the same with
Speaker 7: like love. It's like you have to scare yourself and
Speaker 7: be uncomfortable and hear someone else's point of view or
Speaker 7: walk of life in order to expand as a human.
Speaker 7: And you know, writing is just like my extension of that.
Speaker 7: But yeah, anyways, this is getting very very existential.
Speaker 1: Well, but it's about who cares a shit.
Speaker 5: I mean, that is beautiful, Like we all want to
Speaker 5: grow in love and expand, but some people it's like
Speaker 5: the people that are limited and the people that are
Speaker 5: closed off are not thinking that way. They're thinking about
Speaker 5: it's a narrow way of thinking. And when you go
Speaker 5: through different enough difficult stuff and you're a smart person,
Speaker 5: you eventually understand and maybe not eventually, maybe right away
Speaker 5: the benefits of expansion and the benefits of growing and
Speaker 5: open mindedness and actually going towards something that you think
Speaker 5: you might fear and learning from it. You have a
Speaker 5: huge new album called Dreamsicle. She's going on tour everybody.
Speaker 5: She's going on to the US, Europe, UK, everywhere. Tickets
Speaker 5: are available at Marenmorris dot com. The tour begins July twelfth.
Speaker 5: So I've listened to part of this in the in
Speaker 5: the gym this morning.
Speaker 1: It's really beautiful. It's very soulful.
Speaker 5: I mean, it's I don't even know how I would
Speaker 5: describe it in one word because it's there's a lot
Speaker 5: of different stuff in there. But I'm really just blown
Speaker 5: away at a And I think this is demonstrative of
Speaker 5: what so many women experience.
Speaker 1: You came out of a marriage, you came out.
Speaker 5: Of you know, quote unquote country music, and you had
Speaker 5: a huge growth spurt from what I can tell. Can
Speaker 5: you talk a little bit about that. You also had
Speaker 5: a baby, so I mean that'll do it. Yeah.
Speaker 7: I think just literally everything that could change in your
Speaker 7: life happen and in like five years for me, and
Speaker 7: you know, it was a slow burn of events like unfolding,
Speaker 7: and I I think I was just hoping and waiting
Speaker 7: that someone would reach into my life and tell me
Speaker 7: how to fix everything. And when you realize on some
Speaker 7: of those like more isolated nights of just like not
Speaker 7: being able to sleep and because you just your body
Speaker 7: is in fight or flight almost. I think I just
Speaker 7: had to buck up and be like, no, bitch, it's you,
Speaker 7: Like you're the one that has to make that decision
Speaker 7: and figure out like where you go from here.
Speaker 6: It's not going to be anyone else. Like I mean,
Speaker 6: I think you go into.
Speaker 7: This like inner child mode of like how do I
Speaker 7: get out of this? Like who can help me? Like
Speaker 7: my mom or my dad? But I think, yeah, I
Speaker 7: just I realized I was expanding and growing at a
Speaker 7: really fast pace. I think from twenty twenty on, and
Speaker 7: yes you could you could throw motherhood and the postpartum
Speaker 7: thing learning about myself not being able to work in
Speaker 7: that moment. There were a lot of like identity crises
Speaker 7: going on. But I realized, like I can't look back
Speaker 7: and slow down for people anymore. I want to set
Speaker 7: my own pace and I will sacrifice my comfort and
Speaker 7: like loneliness or feeling not lonely to move at the
Speaker 7: pace that I have worked really hard to move at.
Speaker 7: And I think it's not like a fun decision. It's
Speaker 7: not a fun aftermath or fall out of a decision
Speaker 7: like that. But I think now that I'm a little
Speaker 7: bit more on the other side of it, I do
Speaker 7: feel like no part of me ever wakes up at
Speaker 7: three in the morning and it's like I've made a
Speaker 7: huge mistake. Like I feel like I sleep better because
Speaker 7: my body can finally relax and knows that it made
Speaker 7: the tough but right decision. It's hard to know what
Speaker 7: day occurred that it all started to shift, but maybe circumstantially,
Speaker 7: it doesn't to me feel like, oh, let's throw the
Speaker 7: baby out with the bathwater, like and change everything about
Speaker 7: my life. It just happened organically to have, you know,
Speaker 7: all occur at once. But yeah, personal life, professional, all
Speaker 7: the shit was just like a tornado. And I was like,
Speaker 7: I swear to God, if I can like white knuckle
Speaker 7: myself through this and survive, this is probably the hardest thing,
Speaker 7: Like I'll endure and I'll be okay if I get
Speaker 7: through this part.
Speaker 5: I think it's so interesting that you say that, because
Speaker 5: it's so true, Like I know, through some of my
Speaker 5: difficult moments in life, you are kind of waiting for someone,
Speaker 5: Like whether it's your agent or your manager, or your
Speaker 5: sister or your father, you're waiting for somebody to bail
Speaker 5: you out, to come and say I'll take care of you.
Speaker 5: And like I've had so many When I was younger,
Speaker 5: I had so many of those like kind of tantr
Speaker 5: me moments like somebody needs to fix this, somebody needs
Speaker 5: to fix this, and it's like there's only so much
Speaker 5: anybody else can do about you and your state of mind,
Speaker 5: which is the first ingredient you need is to have
Speaker 5: clarity and to have focus in order to lift yourself
Speaker 5: out of anything.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I think I was just maintaining a level of
Speaker 7: stress and thinking that because I'm used to this level
Speaker 7: of stress, it's comfortable, and the alternative to that is
Speaker 7: so in the dark that it's frightening. And now that
Speaker 7: I've removed that sort of perpetual level of holding the
Speaker 7: fucking plates up and spinning them no matter the cost
Speaker 7: to myself and my mental health.
Speaker 6: Now that I've removed that, I just see.
Speaker 7: How much I was carrying and that was so unnecessary
Speaker 7: and so unfair to me. So yeah, I think, like
Speaker 7: the whole rip the band aid off thing is easier
Speaker 7: said than done. But I do think even if you're
Speaker 7: operating at a level of like just okay or good ish,
Speaker 7: you don't know what great is because you've never allowed
Speaker 7: yourself the space to experience great and I feel like
Speaker 7: now I can. And I'm like, you have to be
Speaker 7: like really okay with your own company, and I am.
Speaker 7: I think that was always like the case was, you know,
Speaker 7: since I was a kid. I can internalize and go
Speaker 7: and hear, and that's probably why I'm a songwriter. But yeah,
Speaker 7: it's just, yeah, extremely daunting to make those choices. But
Speaker 7: you know, I just turned thirty five, and I do
Speaker 7: feel like I'm glad I didn't wait any longer.
Speaker 6: It just would have been such a like waste to myself.
Speaker 5: Absolutely, And I think there are so many, so many
Speaker 5: of the people that listen to this podcast are always
Speaker 5: calling in about that very question, like how do you
Speaker 5: take a leap?
Speaker 1: How do you move in the right direction? Like what
Speaker 1: is the first step?
Speaker 5: And I always think it's just take a step in
Speaker 5: that direction, you know, and then the second one will follow.
Speaker 5: But you have to intentionally be like, this is the
Speaker 5: first thing I'm going to do to change my life
Speaker 5: and to head into direction that I'm more comfortable with
Speaker 5: and passionate about.
Speaker 7: Yeah, and you more people should talk about like even
Speaker 7: the little baby step in the correct direction or whatever
Speaker 7: is nauseating it is you are fighting every safety inside
Speaker 7: your body to make those choices, whether it's to leave
Speaker 7: a job or a relationship or severtise with a friend
Speaker 7: or a family, those decisions, at least for me, because
Speaker 7: I just feel so much like empathy and I want
Speaker 7: I never want to let people down.
Speaker 1: People.
Speaker 7: Please are it feels like you're going to vomit, Like
Speaker 7: every time you even take the tiniest step to someone else,
Speaker 7: Like it's huge to your brain and you're functioning.
Speaker 5: How did you deal with any of the backlash you
Speaker 5: got from the country country music industry after you came
Speaker 5: out publicly?
Speaker 1: Came out, No, like against that I came out, got it? Well,
Speaker 1: I mean too well that you're right right.
Speaker 5: Of course that too, but not who cares about that.
Speaker 6: About we're all a little gay?
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly so.
Speaker 5: And if we're not gay yet, you will be okay
Speaker 5: by the end of this By the end of this administration,
Speaker 5: you'll all be gay.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 7: Just date one more man, and I promise you you'll be
Speaker 7: gay totally.
Speaker 5: Somebody tried to I was coming to New York. I'm
Speaker 5: in New York right now, and somebody's like, I have
Speaker 5: this guy I want you to set you up with.
Speaker 5: I'm like, I can't even think about men right now. Okay,
Speaker 5: just get away from me. I have no interest in
Speaker 5: a man right now. I have other things to think about.
Speaker 5: And like, when I get to Europe, I'll be in
Speaker 5: a different zone.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, maybe it's better, you'll fear better over there.
Speaker 1: But I mean, I.
Speaker 6: Mean, there's there's backlash with like anything that you do
Speaker 6: that's not normal.
Speaker 7: So I think I also, like remember very clearly the
Speaker 7: chicks backlash of like the two thousand and three Bush era,
Speaker 7: you know, Iraq war stuff, So like that's like my
Speaker 7: touchstone of how an industry can black volume or snuff
Speaker 7: you out or attempt to. And I think, you know,
Speaker 7: it's slightly better now because of social media and more
Speaker 7: people can be like exposed to what you're saying and
Speaker 7: have the context of what.
Speaker 6: You're saying and and.
Speaker 7: Just yeah, but I was kind of surprised at like
Speaker 7: how many people reached out to me pately or publicly
Speaker 7: in support and just being like the courage that it
Speaker 7: would take to do this or just change up your
Speaker 7: plans this way. And I wasn't really doing it in
Speaker 7: the hopes that these people would think that I'm like
Speaker 7: Joan of Arc or some bullshit. It's like, I'm just
Speaker 7: attempting to like be happy and I'm going to have
Speaker 7: to make some major changes for that to be.
Speaker 5: A reality, honest, being an honest I mean, you didn't
Speaker 5: have to say that publicly.
Speaker 1: You could have said that privately. There's a real power.
Speaker 5: I mean, anytime someone says something like that and it's
Speaker 5: loud about that in a righteous way, you are paving
Speaker 5: the way for so many other people that you will
Speaker 5: never even know about, you know, and not to mention
Speaker 5: all of the gay country artists that we've learned about
Speaker 5: since making that announcement.
Speaker 1: So like, kudos to you for doing that.
Speaker 5: That takes a lot of balls and a lot of guts,
Speaker 5: because I'm sure there was a part of you that
Speaker 5: was scared or it was fractured of you that was like,
Speaker 5: oh my god, what's the backlash going to be like?
Speaker 5: And I'm all for that because you're helping so many
Speaker 5: people that you'll never even meet.
Speaker 6: Oh well, thank you.
Speaker 7: I mean, I think I've always been a loudmouth, and
Speaker 7: I think it's just from kind of growing up in
Speaker 7: Texas in this very red state, you know, lots of
Speaker 7: conservative family and you know, being so mentally online for
Speaker 7: like post nine to eleven, the chick stuff, things that
Speaker 7: were happening within the South and in country music on
Speaker 7: a public level with the war, I mean, the age
Speaker 7: of millennial that I am is like that's when people
Speaker 7: really started paying attention because we had to.
Speaker 6: It was on our TVs.
Speaker 7: And I think it just instilled in me this like
Speaker 7: kind of rebellious spirit of like where how do I
Speaker 7: build community in a place which is so red, And
Speaker 7: like even back then it felt very quaint.
Speaker 6: Like people post Trump, it's a little.
Speaker 7: Bit different, but I think even back then it didn't
Speaker 7: feel quite so adversarial. But it's just grown as I've
Speaker 7: grown my audience. And I think also like I have
Speaker 7: so many women that work for me and with me,
Speaker 7: and people of color, people.
Speaker 6: In the queer community.
Speaker 7: So like that's my backstage and on stage, and then
Speaker 7: I'm looking at my crowd and it's like each album,
Speaker 7: each like year even it's diversifying. And I remember the
Speaker 7: first time I ever played like New York City, it
Speaker 7: was like the Bowery, I think, and I just I'd
Speaker 7: never had like gay fans, and so seeing on my
Speaker 7: first like EP and you're in like the biggest city,
Speaker 7: so you're like, Okay, this is what you know the
Speaker 7: city crowd's going to look like. And I was just
Speaker 7: obsessed and I just wanted more of that. I wanted
Speaker 7: people to come to my show and feel like they
Speaker 7: were safe to do so, and they would make friends
Speaker 7: at my shows and the crowd. And I've seen this
Speaker 7: happen like over the last like nine years.
Speaker 6: Yeah, So I.
Speaker 7: Think part and part soul of building that is letting
Speaker 7: people know where you stand on almost everything.
Speaker 6: Like I think there are some.
Speaker 7: Things that I don't blame or shame my peers for
Speaker 7: not speaking up on because you know, it's fucking hard
Speaker 7: doing this. But I think in the long run, and
Speaker 7: I've lost fans along the way, and that's going to happen,
Speaker 7: is you have like a longer career, you're going to
Speaker 7: lose people. Like the more that you exist and aren't
Speaker 7: just like cookie cut and you're a fully formed human being,
Speaker 7: I think you're going to lose.
Speaker 6: People and that's okay. I think that's healthy.
Speaker 7: But you're going to like remain with the people that
Speaker 7: have been there from the jump, that always understood you
Speaker 7: and you understand them and then like attract the people
Speaker 7: that you want over time.
Speaker 5: Do you feel at thirty five years old? This is
Speaker 5: a weird question. It's not a weird question, but it's direct.
Speaker 5: Do you feel like a woman?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 6: I do?
Speaker 7: Now.
Speaker 6: I thought you were going to say, like, do you
Speaker 6: feel old? Because I do? Most is but I yeah,
Speaker 6: I do because.
Speaker 7: I think I started doing this so young. I think
Speaker 7: we talked about this the last time we spoke, you know,
Speaker 7: in an interview for Matt It was like, I've been
Speaker 7: touring since I was twelve, So and you lovey.
Speaker 1: She loves it.
Speaker 7: She loves it, she loves being on the road. I
Speaker 7: just love the I love the show. Like the energy
Speaker 7: I get from that. It just feels like a healthy
Speaker 7: version of like the churches I grew up in. And
Speaker 7: I think that connection to an energy like that is
Speaker 7: just it's addictive, yes, but it's also like extremely therapeutic.
Speaker 7: And so yes, I love the road. But yeah, I'm
Speaker 7: thirty five now, I have a five year old I've
Speaker 7: been divorced. Now, Yeah, I feel like a woman. What
Speaker 7: are the boxes I'm ticking?
Speaker 6: I love living alone?
Speaker 7: Yeah, like I love having my space. Is that's very sacred.
Speaker 7: I think, just like not sharing a closet with someone
Speaker 7: or a bathroom counter, I can have all my shit everywhere. Yeah,
Speaker 7: I mean that feels very womanly to me. It's just
Speaker 7: like the liberation of home, like space in your house.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so nice to be alone, isn't it.
Speaker 5: It's so nice to have your own space and be
Speaker 5: alone anytime I have a boyfriend or share or we
Speaker 5: go on vacation together. Because I won't live with anyone again.
Speaker 5: I hope I never do until I'm in a facility,
Speaker 5: and then I'll live with my and then i'll live
Speaker 5: with my boyfriend who will be twenty years younger, taking
Speaker 5: care of me for a fee my mail nurse that
Speaker 5: I'm totally happy to pay as a transaction. But I
Speaker 5: didn't start feeling and I think I guess motherhood also
Speaker 5: plays a very strong component, because I think once you
Speaker 5: have a baby, there is a sense of womanhood that
Speaker 5: comes on. But I didn't start to feel like a
Speaker 5: real woman until I was in my forties. I always
Speaker 5: felt like this little girl energy, like you know, Punky
Speaker 5: Brewster esque, Like, oh you know.
Speaker 1: I'm still not really responsible.
Speaker 5: I have all of these things, and I have all
Speaker 5: these people that help me do all these things, but
Speaker 5: even though I'm running the whole thing, I don't feel
Speaker 5: like a woman. And so I think it's interesting to
Speaker 5: find out what ages women do start to feel that way.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean, I totally get what you're saying, because
Speaker 7: I do still have this like zest and like energizer
Speaker 7: bunny esqueness to me, but or maybe on the sort
Speaker 7: of negative space of that is like again the people
Speaker 7: pleasing thing or just like the former in me and
Speaker 7: every element of my life, like it's exhausting, but it's
Speaker 7: just so hard to break that pattern of myself and
Speaker 7: like even in relationships, like romantic relationships, feeling like they
Speaker 7: need the best version of me, like especially off the bat,
Speaker 7: like no flaws, no downsides, like everything's peachy, and then
Speaker 7: you're like, oh my god, like they're gonna fucking ruin
Speaker 7: it anyways, So just show them all your cards, explore
Speaker 7: healthy detachment. But I yeah, I mean I feel like
Speaker 7: a woman. But also like I bet when I turned
Speaker 7: forty in a couple of years, I'll be like that
Speaker 7: one was an idiot, like the thirty five version.
Speaker 6: So no, I'll be proud at any milestone.
Speaker 7: But I do think like there is something yeah with motherhood,
Speaker 7: but also just like anything like divorce, where it's a
Speaker 7: failure of the promise and the plan that was made initially,
Speaker 7: but it's it's also like a success. And I don't
Speaker 7: want to like sugarcoat it, like it's not fun to
Speaker 7: go through this. And like also in a public way,
Speaker 7: have like friends and family that you haven't spoken to
Speaker 7: in years, like reaching out to you about something in
Speaker 7: TMZ that feels so private, but like shit happens. It's
Speaker 7: part of the job. I just think I've earned my
Speaker 7: stripes through that.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and you can also divorce in a very successful way.
Speaker 5: So it is a success by many stand and by
Speaker 5: many measures without referring, you know, to the end of
Speaker 5: a marriage that in and of itself could be a
Speaker 5: success when it's not a healthy marriage. So yeah, our
Speaker 5: whole language around all of it should just be flipped
Speaker 5: and flip it and reverse it.
Speaker 6: That's so true.
Speaker 7: I think also because we're over a year out now,
Speaker 7: like my ex and I and we obviously have our
Speaker 7: son to co parent, like we get along now and have.
Speaker 6: Moved past a lot of it.
Speaker 7: But we're neighbors and I'm just so fortunate that we
Speaker 7: like have put our son above each other's shit and
Speaker 7: like can truly and it's better for the two of
Speaker 7: us if we're getting along obviously as well as like
Speaker 7: co parenting our son. But yeah, I mean, I'm lucky that,
Speaker 7: you know, we love each other so much still and
Speaker 7: we have like the highest respect. But also there is
Speaker 7: that like devastation that like two people that love each
Speaker 7: other that much they can't make it work in the
Speaker 7: real world. It's always going to be multifaceted. But I
Speaker 7: think ultimately, like we both knew it was probably going
Speaker 7: to be better this way, which is a success, totally.
Speaker 1: Absolutely. I'm not No, we're going to take a break
Speaker 1: and we'll be right back with Maren Morris.
Speaker 5: And we're back with Maren Morris, who has a new
Speaker 5: album called Dreams to Call and then she's touring all over.
Speaker 1: So go to Maremorris dot com to get tickets.
Speaker 5: Okay, we have some callers, Maren, are you ready, Catherine,
Speaker 5: are you ready?
Speaker 8: Yes?
Speaker 3: Well, this first one is just an email, but Jess says,
Speaker 3: dear Chelsea, I've been friends with this girl, let's call
Speaker 3: her Molly, for fourish years now. We met through mutual
Speaker 3: friends while I was in grad school, and our partners
Speaker 3: get along very well too. We've stayed in touch a lot,
Speaker 3: with bi annual trips to see each other.
Speaker 1: After I moved out of the town where we met.
Speaker 1: Fast forward to two years ago.
Speaker 3: She's getting married and wants to do a big bachelorette
Speaker 3: trip out of state. I took it upon myself to
Speaker 3: essentially plan the entire thing. She was relieved to have
Speaker 3: the help. The trip went very well, followed by travel
Speaker 3: to their wedding later that year. All that to say,
Speaker 3: I spent a lot of time, money, and energy on
Speaker 3: her wedding. It was a big weekend for me too.
Speaker 3: The day after her wedding, my fiance popped the question.
Speaker 3: He planned a little trip and it was just the
Speaker 3: two of us.
Speaker 1: He did get.
Speaker 2: Permission from the groom in advance.
Speaker 3: When I got engaged, Molly was happy for me, but
Speaker 3: did not express any explicit interest in the details of
Speaker 3: my wedding planning. The next time I saw her was
Speaker 3: on a friend's trip six months later. She did not
Speaker 3: ask to see my ring, nor did she ask any
Speaker 3: details about my engagement, which is crazy to me. If
Speaker 3: I care about some one, I'm curious about a big
Speaker 3: moment like that. She in fact expressed some annoyance at
Speaker 3: the timing of the engagement, possibly taking away from the
Speaker 3: quote unquote specialness of her weekend. About a week after
Speaker 3: that trip, she said she could not arrive at my
Speaker 3: wedding a day early for a bachelorette celebration as she
Speaker 3: couldn't get the time off work. Then today I receive
Speaker 3: a text with her essentially saying they might not make
Speaker 3: it to the wedding due to finances. I'm frustrated and confused.
Speaker 3: She has a great job as a lawyer, so it's
Speaker 3: not really adding up without a firm RSVP. How do
Speaker 3: I know whether I should plan the tables and a
Speaker 3: meal for her and her husband? And it's a lot
Speaker 3: of money to waste if they don't end up coming.
Speaker 3: Should I address it with her or not? Even bother? Sincerely, Jess.
Speaker 1: Wait, so the proposal took place right the day after the.
Speaker 3: Day was the wedding, but like in a totally different place,
Speaker 3: Like it wasn't like at the post wedding brunch sort
Speaker 3: of thing.
Speaker 1: It was far away. Oh okay, And he cleared it
Speaker 1: with the groom, which I don't think he should have
Speaker 1: had to do by. Why did he do so?
Speaker 5: Yeah, that was the first mistake, clearing it with the groom.
Speaker 5: I thought it was on the grounds like the brunchiest.
Speaker 3: I clarified that with her and she was like, no, no,
Speaker 3: it was like hours away and just.
Speaker 5: I mean, you could ignore it, but I would go
Speaker 5: at it directly head on and just send her an
Speaker 5: email going it's clear that you're clear that you're annoyed.
Speaker 5: You've showed that you've been annoyed with me for getting
Speaker 5: engaged after your wedding.
Speaker 1: I did not plan this proposal. My husband did. Okay,
Speaker 1: so hey, these are the facts.
Speaker 5: B I went above and beyond for your wedding, as
Speaker 5: I would do again. Like you know, you say, say
Speaker 5: all of this with as much gentleness and love as
Speaker 5: you can because you're talking to somebody who's basically having
Speaker 5: a little bit of a tantrum. And I would do
Speaker 5: it again. I was happy to be there. I was
Speaker 5: happy to throw your engate, your bachelorette weekend or whatever
Speaker 5: she threw for herr shower. Yeah however she wants to
Speaker 5: call it or whatever it was.
Speaker 1: Yeah, bachelorette, Yeah you got it, and I was there.
Speaker 1: I was happy for you.
Speaker 5: It's really disheartening to see you being wawfully about my
Speaker 5: wedding when you know that the costs that go into
Speaker 5: a wedding. You understand when somebody isn't going to be there.
Speaker 5: The fact that you're not coming in for my bachelor
Speaker 5: weekend after I threw you one hurts. The fact that
Speaker 5: you're not sure if you can come to my wedding
Speaker 5: hurts again.
Speaker 1: I did not.
Speaker 5: Propose to my husband. He proposed to me. It wasn't
Speaker 5: at your wedding, it was after your wedding. Like, these
Speaker 5: are things that are not going to matter in six months.
Speaker 5: I would just be very direct so that you can
Speaker 5: get you know, really, just call her on her shit
Speaker 5: and get a direct response so that you don't have
Speaker 5: to worry about it. Just let me know either way,
Speaker 5: if you can't come to the wedding, Okay, that's disappointing too,
Speaker 5: but please let me know so I can save the money,
Speaker 5: you know. And I really hope one day you can
Speaker 5: get past this, because I find this to be very silly.
Speaker 5: We were all there for your wedding, we were all present,
Speaker 5: and now I feel like I'm being punished for being
Speaker 5: proposed to.
Speaker 1: That's a good line.
Speaker 6: That's how it feels. What do you think, Maren, It's
Speaker 6: just so weird that all this happened planned her whole
Speaker 6: bachelorette showed up and like celebrated her, and then they
Speaker 6: didn't see each other for six months. That feels weird.
Speaker 2: Too, because they don't live in the same town.
Speaker 1: Oh got it, got it? Yeah, they live a little
Speaker 1: bit farther apart.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean's right.
Speaker 7: I think just approaching it directly, even though it's gonna
Speaker 7: suck to hit send because it's like, oh god, like
Speaker 7: I'm really coming out her a little bit assortibly. But
Speaker 7: it does cost money when people know show on a
Speaker 7: wedding and the table setting and like the food and drink,
Speaker 7: and it's like just out of courtesy even that alone,
Speaker 7: even if she hadn't planned the bachelorette, it's like you
Speaker 7: are SVP no right and whatever. But yeah, I think,
Speaker 7: just like be direct and she might think that you're
Speaker 7: like attacking her, but I don't think.
Speaker 6: I don't think any of us do. So just clear
Speaker 6: your mind.
Speaker 1: No and say it with love. Start it with like, hey,
Speaker 1: this is coming from love.
Speaker 5: I definitely feel some tension between us, and this is
Speaker 5: what I'm deducing. You know, you can say as softly
Speaker 5: as you want to. I'm saying it directly, but you
Speaker 5: can actually make it much softer. But why not if
Speaker 5: she's not going to be your friend, find out now?
Speaker 5: And if if she's ever gonna get caught. People need
Speaker 5: to be called out on their silly behavior. She's acting
Speaker 5: like a child. If she's really upset about that, you know,
Speaker 5: which she probably won't. She may not admit, she may
Speaker 5: pretend it's about something else, you know what I mean,
Speaker 5: because it is embarrassing to admit you're upset about something.
Speaker 1: So so what's the word I'm thinking of? Trifle?
Speaker 6: No?
Speaker 1: Is that a truffle?
Speaker 2: Trifling?
Speaker 1: Silly fling, silly, stupid truffles? Truffles? I don't know whatever
Speaker 1: I feel like.
Speaker 3: Also, if she still is waffling after you directly ask
Speaker 3: her like, hey, I need an RSVP and she's like, well,
Speaker 3: we'd like I think I would say like a no,
Speaker 3: is okay if we'd love to have you there, but
Speaker 3: if you really can't, please just let me know, and
Speaker 3: like we'll assume that you're not gonna come.
Speaker 1: Let's just plan on you.
Speaker 5: You could do it that and just like yeah, you
Speaker 5: could also frame it only like that, like listen, it's
Speaker 5: obvious that you have some issue with me, and not
Speaker 5: even get into the details and say it's obviously there's
Speaker 5: some issue here. I'm assuming you're upset about the proposal date,
Speaker 5: but whether that's really not in my control, that I
Speaker 5: didn't have any control over that, and you're waffling back
Speaker 5: and forth about even coming to my wedding. While that's
Speaker 5: really hurtful. I think what you're trying to say to me,
Speaker 5: you're not coming. You know, you could do it that
Speaker 5: way and like make it more of a closed dooring, and.
Speaker 3: You can even blame it on like the wedding planner,
Speaker 3: Like the wedding planner needs a firm RSVP one way
Speaker 3: or the other, So like let me know by X date,
Speaker 3: especially if it's after the actual RSVP date. Well, our
Speaker 3: next color is Mike, he says. Dear Chelsea. I followed
Speaker 3: Chelsea from back in the Gray Goose Days to Belvedere.
Speaker 3: I really respect your point of view on things, and
Speaker 3: you being a girl's girl is pretty cool. I'm a
Speaker 3: trans man, which I'm not usually comfortable saying or even
Speaker 3: typing out loud. I've always identified as a straight guy.
Speaker 3: I'm forty four, and back in my day, it was
Speaker 3: all about being stealth. The world is different these days.
Speaker 3: I've been with my wife for eighteen years, married together
Speaker 3: for twenty five. We have an eight year old, and
Speaker 3: now the two of us are in the process of
Speaker 3: a divorce. She's been running on emotions, making it legally
Speaker 3: hard for me financially too, and adding extra stress with
Speaker 3: our son. I never would have thought we'd be here.
Speaker 3: I took my veowl seriously, thinking I was protecting my
Speaker 3: son and me. I have an attorney, but I'm scared
Speaker 3: shitless to see what's to come. Do you have anything
Speaker 3: to to help me maintain focus to get through this
Speaker 3: with my son? Yet positive enough to not let all
Speaker 3: this negativity affect my well being. I see it taking over,
Speaker 3: but I'm getting through. Best wishes, Mike.
Speaker 8: Hi, Mike, Hey, how are you doing? Chelsea?
Speaker 1: Hi?
Speaker 5: This is our special guest Maaron Morris, who joins us today.
Speaker 1: How how are you doing.
Speaker 8: I'm doing. I'm happy to be here and I'm you know,
Speaker 8: looking forward to hear what you know? Where you have
Speaker 8: to welfare? I'm sorry it out.
Speaker 5: Okay, no, no, no, So you're you're it's an acrimonious divorce.
Speaker 1: I take it.
Speaker 8: Yeah, I kind of like neither one of us really
Speaker 8: did anything, you know, so to speak, that that really
Speaker 8: it was like, oh my god, you know you cheated
Speaker 8: or anything like that that really broke us. I think
Speaker 8: we've been together since we were young, and we didn't
Speaker 8: really have proper guidance, and we went through a lot,
Speaker 8: you know, like there was a lot of death, guilt,
Speaker 8: a lot of things that I don't think I appropriately
Speaker 8: dealt with or neither Itchy and I think we were
Speaker 8: both a little emotionally irresponsible as well as financially, and
Speaker 8: I think it kind of caught up to us and
Speaker 8: it was a lot of stuff we never dealt with
Speaker 8: coming to a head, and you know, unfortunately, you know,
Speaker 8: this is where we are, and it's just like I
Speaker 8: don't even know what to do or how to handle it.
Speaker 8: I realized I'm very upset and how things are proceeding,
Speaker 8: but I'm trying not to get angry. I've related to
Speaker 8: you for many years, like you've like helped me through
Speaker 8: a lot of this stuff, and I went through it
Speaker 8: like it was just like your show Finding You was
Speaker 8: kind of just awesome, like you know, I would just
Speaker 8: kind of veg out and watch it, and you know,
Speaker 8: it was a instruction from life, and at that time,
Speaker 8: it was just like a long time ago at this
Speaker 8: point really like work stuff, you know, just regular life.
Speaker 8: And then like I started realizing, like I started like
Speaker 8: not appreciating the little things, and I think a lot
Speaker 8: of it just came to my head. And when I
Speaker 8: was ready to deal with that, she wasn't. And now
Speaker 8: I don't know who she's become. You know, it's scary.
Speaker 5: Have you been able to have a conversation with her.
Speaker 5: Are you able to have a conversation with her about
Speaker 5: how you're feeling and about moving forward in like a
Speaker 5: loving way for the benefit of your son and accepting
Speaker 5: that the relationship is over, but also understanding that there
Speaker 5: can be a new relationship moving forward so that you
Speaker 5: can honor the family unit that you had.
Speaker 8: I try, you know, and it's like I've tried like
Speaker 8: several different approaches because I used to, you know, I know,
Speaker 8: like where I did my wrong short of speakers, not
Speaker 8: taking care of myself and I went through a lot
Speaker 8: of loss. And I had mentioned that I'm a trans guy.
Speaker 8: I don't think like you know, like I always know
Speaker 8: she accepted that, but there was a lot of things
Speaker 8: that I don't think I really accepted, you know. And
Speaker 8: when I was younger, I came out as like a
Speaker 8: trans guy. I was part of this community and the city,
Speaker 8: and I would go on talks and really encourage people.
Speaker 8: And then like it was like I found this beautiful
Speaker 8: girl in Long Island who was really straight, you know,
Speaker 8: and it was like all about being stealth, and she
Speaker 8: fell in love with me and accepted me. And I
Speaker 8: just can't believe twenty five years later, like going through
Speaker 8: all this stuff, like we're here, you know, and our
Speaker 8: son is the most precious thing in the world. He's
Speaker 8: non verbal, he's autistic, and he really needs us more
Speaker 8: than most little guys and girls, you know, and it
Speaker 8: is a shame, and I don't know, you know, I
Speaker 8: needed to become humble and how I relate to you
Speaker 8: as well as there are things that I felt like
Speaker 8: were so important to say and I needed to be heard,
Speaker 8: and I needed to take a lot of steps back,
Speaker 8: and I think I kind of took him too late.
Speaker 8: You know.
Speaker 5: That's okay, though, That's okay. Everything's it's okay. All of
Speaker 5: these things that you're saying, are okay. It's part of
Speaker 5: your life and it's part of how you deal with it.
Speaker 5: Do you have a therapist?
Speaker 8: I do, and it's it's been great to have that
Speaker 8: and to see that that help and the self reflection
Speaker 8: is amazing. And I mean, like I have a lot
Speaker 8: of work to do, don't get me wrong, but even
Speaker 8: like stepping out, what encourage me to email you is
Speaker 8: I would and saw you by myself. That's something I
Speaker 8: never would have done. I would a ticket to see
Speaker 8: you in King's Theater. My english was messed in that emails,
Speaker 8: like compleaning it up Catherine, because I was just so
Speaker 8: excited that I was doing it, and I was like,
Speaker 8: you know, it's good. I'm going to reach out and
Speaker 8: just let her know it, you know. Like so just
Speaker 8: like that alone was a huge step for me to
Speaker 8: just humble, be humble, like to be able to walk
Speaker 8: in there humble but confident. You know, I lost both
Speaker 8: and I think that was part of what she fell
Speaker 8: in love with me. And I want us to kind
Speaker 8: of kind of regroup, like I even heard of like
Speaker 8: co parenting counseling, Like all right, we accept, you know,
Speaker 8: marriage is over. We're gonna, you know, live apart, but
Speaker 8: like there are so many resources. I even brought her
Speaker 8: a rage room, you know, and maybe we have like
Speaker 8: anger or resentment, like banging out, you know, hit some
Speaker 8: stuff like you know, you just like I don't even
Speaker 8: know how to navigate this at all, you.
Speaker 5: Know, And Okay, well it's one step at a time.
Speaker 5: First of all, you have to take it one step
Speaker 5: at a time. How old were you when you transitioned?
Speaker 8: So is interesting, That's an interesting question. I think I
Speaker 8: always knew. By the first time I introduced myself, I
Speaker 8: was very lucky. I was going I was probably like
Speaker 8: ten to eleven going into sixth grade. I was so lucky.
Speaker 8: I was in the movie seeing Terminator two, whatever year
Speaker 8: that was about, and I saw a girl that I liked,
Speaker 8: and she assumed, you know, like I got my haircut short.
Speaker 8: And I was very, very fortunate transition wise. But now
Speaker 8: later in life, I almost feel too fortunate.
Speaker 5: If that's weird or not, well, it sounds to me
Speaker 5: like what you're missing is like there's a lot of
Speaker 5: delayed grief that's coming up that sounds like it's probably
Speaker 5: related to your transition and not getting the appropriate therapy
Speaker 5: going through that transition, like you saying you were lucky
Speaker 5: to go through that. What the experience you're talking about
Speaker 5: would also kind of masks like, Okay, okay, I can
Speaker 5: do this, I can do this, it was not no
Speaker 5: big deal. And when it is a big deal, when
Speaker 5: there are feelings that you need to digest and you
Speaker 5: need to understand about yourself, there's going to be a
Speaker 5: lot of emotion around that that you haven't experienced yet
Speaker 5: that is necessary to go through otherwise it will tear
Speaker 5: you apart.
Speaker 8: I think you're right, like even crying like this is
Speaker 8: new for me.
Speaker 1: That's good.
Speaker 5: Though, it's good that you're crying. It's absolutely wonderful, Like
Speaker 5: that's what you need to do more of is cry.
Speaker 1: It gets it out of your body.
Speaker 5: There's a grieving process that comes with transitioning, and if
Speaker 5: it's not handled properly, this is the kind of thing
Speaker 5: that can happen. And while it may seem like it's
Speaker 5: your relationship and maybe it is, there's a lot of
Speaker 5: stuff that creeps up on us from our younger years
Speaker 5: when we don't address them. So I would really encourage
Speaker 5: you to really speak with your therapist in a candid
Speaker 5: way about all of this.
Speaker 1: I would also.
Speaker 5: Encourage you to write down as much as you can
Speaker 5: whenever you can, you know, really start journaling about how
Speaker 5: you're feeling, and you're going to I feel like you're
Speaker 5: going to realize that a lot these emotions are very
Speaker 5: much tied to your emotions from being a younger person
Speaker 5: and that haven't been fully examined. And while that may
Speaker 5: not sound like a fun thing to do, it's a
Speaker 5: necessary thing to do for your future and for moving
Speaker 5: through this divorce in.
Speaker 1: A more amicable way.
Speaker 5: And if you can approach your wife in a way
Speaker 5: that is really loving. Do you think you can or
Speaker 5: have you about moving forward in a more amicable way
Speaker 5: in the name of your son.
Speaker 8: I've tried, but I think my communication is just like off, yeah, off, exactly.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 8: I don't think I'm approaching it at all the right
Speaker 8: way and I just don't know how.
Speaker 5: Okay, Well, can't you have your therapist? Can you have
Speaker 5: a session with your therapist and your wife and have
Speaker 5: her address the communication for both of you.
Speaker 1: Wow?
Speaker 8: Like I keep thinking wow, like this is you know
Speaker 8: what I mean? Like this is incredible? Like I always
Speaker 8: keep thinking it has to be like co parenting or
Speaker 8: these couples like cat like something together. But I never
Speaker 8: even thought of that. That is an amazing thing. And
Speaker 8: I think you're right. My third is she's super supportive.
Speaker 8: And I bet you yes, of one session just to
Speaker 8: kind of get that communication.
Speaker 5: Maybe more than one though, maybe more than one, and
Speaker 5: also frame it to your wife, like, hey, listen, I'm
Speaker 5: having I think I have a lot, a lot of
Speaker 5: work to do on my communication, so I'm seeing a therapist.
Speaker 5: It would really mean the world to me if you
Speaker 5: could come in for a session and we can discuss
Speaker 5: moving forward in the name of our child for the
Speaker 5: purpose of co parenting in the future. I have accepted
Speaker 5: that this relationship doesn't work for you.
Speaker 1: I we'm not going to fight you.
Speaker 5: About that, and then you have to make that promise
Speaker 5: that you're not going to try and like get her back.
Speaker 5: And that's not what this is about. This is all
Speaker 5: for the sanity and safety of your son.
Speaker 8: Yeah, completely right. I try to open my home to her,
Speaker 8: like even Easter Sunday, you know, Like it's like, even
Speaker 8: if we could just spend an evening together, we could
Speaker 8: let him see the Easter. It is what two holidays
Speaker 8: a month that we celebrate Christmas and Easter. A kid,
Speaker 8: you can't get that together, you know, Like I try
Speaker 8: and encourage that, but then if we're not communicating right
Speaker 8: and really being withridiculous, like he feels that. You know,
Speaker 8: he's nonverbal too, so it's a little bit.
Speaker 5: More of you probably know, nonverbal kids know more than
Speaker 5: verbal kids anyway because their senses are so heightened. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Have you listened to that podcast Telepathy Tapes?
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, absolutely about nonverbal Yeah, it's.
Speaker 8: Incredible, And it's like, I just know how many questions
Speaker 8: and even you are some of your like the questions
Speaker 8: I add, you know, like imagine what's going through his head.
Speaker 8: And it's like there are just so many things that
Speaker 8: we just need to get on board on, like even
Speaker 8: his therapies and schedules and whatever. It is, like we
Speaker 8: just gotta gotta be hands on decade.
Speaker 5: Yeah, And the way to get there is to get
Speaker 5: yourself in a healthy place. So you have to double
Speaker 5: down on your therapy, double down on your journaling, start
Speaker 5: meditating for about ten minutes a day just to get
Speaker 5: yourself centered. Just get a download to Deepak Choprah's app,
Speaker 5: download Headspace, download whatever.
Speaker 1: Ten percent happier there's a million.
Speaker 5: They'll guide your meditation, they will tell you what to
Speaker 5: think about, what to focus on, and and just get
Speaker 5: yourself into It's okay to have these emotions. It's important
Speaker 5: that you go through this grief. But it's really important
Speaker 5: that you don't take this out on anyone else.
Speaker 1: Like that.
Speaker 5: You take your wife to your couple's therapist, and if
Speaker 5: she wants to go to one of hers, that's fine too.
Speaker 1: If she'd rather go to someone she knows, great, whatever.
Speaker 5: This is all in the name of better communication, and
Speaker 5: your communication is going to get better if that's what
Speaker 5: you choose to focus on in therapy and with your wife.
Speaker 5: So that's your first step. And then I want you
Speaker 5: to call us in about six weeks and give us
Speaker 5: an update.
Speaker 8: Oh gosh, all right, Homeorks, Yeah, you got it.
Speaker 1: You have homework. This is serious.
Speaker 8: Yeah, this is really serious. And it's six weeks definitely.
Speaker 8: That's that hits us right on the head too. I'm
Speaker 8: gonna be going back to court and uh trying not
Speaker 8: to cry.
Speaker 1: It's okay, it's okay to right.
Speaker 8: And it's and I know she's good in there and
Speaker 8: so am I. And it just sucks, like, how do
Speaker 8: you like just separate that emotion, put the proper boundaries
Speaker 8: up to move for you know, and I think I
Speaker 8: had never thought of that to that's huge. To even
Speaker 8: suggest that to my therapist, that's a huge step. Like, hey,
Speaker 8: just come you know, she knows that I've been with
Speaker 8: my therapist for a long time now, Like just come
Speaker 8: on in and just have it communicate and child in
Speaker 8: the proper way. That's a huge step.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's huge.
Speaker 8: I appreciate that advice because you're just looking in and
Speaker 8: getting me set straight right now. That's what I needed
Speaker 8: from me. I need you to get me focused.
Speaker 5: Maren shares custody with her acts for her child. So Maren,
Speaker 5: do you have any words of encouragement for him?
Speaker 7: I mean, it's so clear that you both care about
Speaker 7: your son so deeply, and that's like going to be
Speaker 7: the thing that saves you through all of this grief,
Speaker 7: and like the car crash that is divorced, it's like
Speaker 7: the worst thing you can go through, and it's it's
Speaker 7: a death. Now that I'm kind of on the other
Speaker 7: side of it, and we are great co parents and
Speaker 7: we've sort of let each other go in that romantic sense,
Speaker 7: even though we still have so much love and history
Speaker 7: and now a child to like, you know, be there
Speaker 7: for I think I think I was saying earlier it's
Speaker 7: like the person you marry is not the person that
Speaker 7: you divorce on both ends, Like she might be thinking
Speaker 7: that as well, and it's just that's like the hardest
Speaker 7: part is knowing that it's not the same. But for
Speaker 7: your son, I think the therapy idea, and obviously it's your therapist,
Speaker 7: so she might come in feeling a little bit like
Speaker 7: ganged up on. So I think the suggestion of if
Speaker 7: it's someone she's more comfortable with, I think just as
Speaker 7: long as there's a third party who's a professional in
Speaker 7: the room being like holding you too accountable and giving
Speaker 7: you tools on how to talk to each other, you
Speaker 7: just fuel all of that self care and love and
Speaker 7: like respect for yourself that is going to be so
Speaker 7: apparent to her and your son this time, Like give
Speaker 7: yourself the time to like be you know, a little
Speaker 7: bit of a mess. It's grief, be sad, cry, journal,
Speaker 7: meditate all the things. But I think, yeah, logistically, of course,
Speaker 7: like get a session on the books where it's the
Speaker 7: three of you, and I think that's just an amazing
Speaker 7: way to go forward it, especially like if it's before
Speaker 7: the court date and the judge, at least in Tennessee
Speaker 7: ends up like telling you how to split the co
Speaker 7: parenting schedule, and I will say, like, that's very bizarre,
Speaker 7: but also gives me comfort to know that, Like, and
Speaker 7: I think my ex husband as well, Like the state
Speaker 7: has given us this split and we have to abide
Speaker 7: by it. So there's no like, well do you get
Speaker 7: easter or do I Like it's in writing and that
Speaker 7: kind of just it takes us and our emotions out
Speaker 7: of it, which is really helpful for both of us.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 7: It's like I won't say easy, and we do co
Speaker 7: parents super well now, but like you just have to
Speaker 7: allow yourself that time to feel all the feelings and
Speaker 7: know that this is like a lot of probably residual
Speaker 7: stuff coming up from like your transition and as time
Speaker 7: it was so brave to do so, like before we
Speaker 7: had all the resources and talks about trans people like
Speaker 7: you were so ahead of that, Like and being a
Speaker 7: champion for your community and yourself. I think like rekindling
Speaker 7: that as well, like go out there with your community again,
Speaker 7: like go do those talks again.
Speaker 6: I think that'll bring you so much like empowerment.
Speaker 8: You hit that on the head. So I recently started
Speaker 8: joining some trans groups again and I was actually just
Speaker 8: you know, so that starts actually.
Speaker 6: Next week and amazing, Yeah, so.
Speaker 8: You actually hit you guys are hitting air out of
Speaker 8: the head. It's like a lot of that did come up,
Speaker 8: I think because I felt like a lot and maybe
Speaker 8: even put that pressure on her if she and I
Speaker 8: can even get to that on her like that. She
Speaker 8: accepted that and I put a lot of that on
Speaker 8: her and I put her on a pedestal that way.
Speaker 8: And now having a child, like like kind of what
Speaker 8: you said, I realized one conditional love is not just
Speaker 8: with the child with another person and kind of like
Speaker 8: which is almost like a choice, but it is. It
Speaker 8: is a choice and it isn't at the same time
Speaker 8: like when you realized I'm conditional love. It's incredible and
Speaker 8: I know deep Balncey has that for me. It's just
Speaker 8: like what you guys are saying. You guys hitting it
Speaker 8: on the head, and I appreciate it, like getting through
Speaker 8: some of that residual resentment or whatever that we just
Speaker 8: never dealt with. We never dealt with it. We just
Speaker 8: we just I think got together very young and just
Speaker 8: kind of kept shelling stuff and you know, getting through
Speaker 8: having fun through it or distractions. It's not dealing with it,
Speaker 8: you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, Mike, will you check in with us in
Speaker 2: about six weeks?
Speaker 8: I sure will. I appreciate that. Thank you for that accountability.
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, take care of Mike.
Speaker 8: All right, So fanculady so much. I really appreciate everything
Speaker 8: it really, I'm really going to take it serious.
Speaker 1: Good thanks, Mike, appreciate you. That was a very heavy
Speaker 1: phone call. Well done everyone, well done.
Speaker 7: But amazing too, Like you could just tell he knew
Speaker 7: a lot of this already and is so self aware.
Speaker 7: But also sometimes, like we were saying earlier, just someone
Speaker 7: tell me what to.
Speaker 1: Do next, Yes, exactly.
Speaker 5: Well.
Speaker 2: Our next question comes from Ali.
Speaker 3: She is twenty two. Dear Chelsea, my name is Ali.
Speaker 3: I'm just starting out in music. I have the urge
Speaker 3: to rush everything. I'm writing music whenever it comes to me,
Speaker 3: and all I want to do is post it on
Speaker 3: my Instagram to quote unquote prove something.
Speaker 8: I know.
Speaker 3: I have nothing to prove. Really, I know I can
Speaker 3: do it. I'm currently looking to get back into school
Speaker 3: since I had to take some time off from college
Speaker 3: for mental health treatment. Music has been so amazing at
Speaker 3: helping me process things and start to feel like myself again.
Speaker 3: I wrote a lot of poetry and treatment that I
Speaker 3: want to set to music, so that's a big motivator.
Speaker 3: I'm starting piano lessons in June, and I'm studying music
Speaker 3: theory till then. Any advice, what else should I study
Speaker 3: to help better myself. I've flown the rainbow of different
Speaker 3: self love practices, but how can I practice the art
Speaker 3: of patients? Sincerely, Ali, Hi, Alio, it's good to see you.
Speaker 5: This is Maren Morris, our special guest today. Perfect timing
Speaker 5: for your question.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean a great question because I think patience
Speaker 7: is the hardest thing for me to deal with, because
Speaker 7: I'm just so type A when it becomes about like
Speaker 7: my decision making and like how do I get here?
Speaker 7: Let's bring into action just like the thought of waiting
Speaker 7: on something is so frustrating. But I think it's amazing that,
Speaker 7: like at this age, you've discovered these new lanes of
Speaker 7: like creativity and therapy. Also, I mean I cannot play
Speaker 7: the piano, I can barely play the guitar, but like
Speaker 7: if I didn't have that tool to write songs too.
Speaker 7: I know there are people that can write songs without
Speaker 7: playing an instrument, but I just find it so helpful
Speaker 7: and like really liberating to not have to rely on
Speaker 7: someone else to play the music for you. So I
Speaker 7: think it's amazing that you like you have lessons planned. Yeah,
Speaker 7: and the music theory thing is also like so helpful,
Speaker 7: especially if you're getting into piano. Music theory will really
Speaker 7: help you with that I'm like more ear trained with.
Speaker 7: But yeah, I mean, I think it's wonderful. But I
Speaker 7: think when I give advice, like to songwriters, the word
Speaker 7: patience is always the first thing I say. It is
Speaker 7: because there's so many people. I don't know if you're
Speaker 7: wanting to do this like professionally or like just have
Speaker 7: it for your own tool of healing. But yeah, I
Speaker 7: just think like giving yourself the time to experience life
Speaker 7: and be able to write through it, and also like
Speaker 7: give yourself those days where like allow yourself to write
Speaker 7: something terrible like that is so important is to like
Speaker 7: tell yourself, this is not a reflection of my talent.
Speaker 7: Some days I will write something that is so unlistenable
Speaker 7: to anyone but me, and that's okay. Like I got
Speaker 7: it out of the of the pipe, but like something
Speaker 7: greater is behind it, hopefully. So yeah, like dare to
Speaker 7: suck write a bad song, write like a shit piece
Speaker 7: of poetry and just be like, Okay, that's off, onto
Speaker 7: the next one.
Speaker 5: I also think on the subject of patients, I have
Speaker 5: no patience either. I have to work very, very hard
Speaker 5: at my patients. But I understand that impulse to want
Speaker 5: to share something that you think is great. But as
Speaker 5: a twenty two year old artist, you have so much
Speaker 5: room to grow. And I know that's not what you
Speaker 5: want to hear because you think you're great now, right,
Speaker 5: But you're only going to get greater. You're only going
Speaker 5: to get better at your craft as you age, and
Speaker 5: as you experience more and more songwriting and you sing more,
Speaker 5: and you learn the piano and you learn and you
Speaker 5: get to know yourself in a better way as an artist.
Speaker 5: So when you're holding, when you have that impulse to share,
Speaker 5: I have to put this on social. I have to
Speaker 5: put this on social. Sometimes you should, and sometimes if
Speaker 5: you just wait a day, wait like twenty four hours,
Speaker 5: like start to train your brain. This is going to
Speaker 5: be a big favorite to you as you get older
Speaker 5: as an artist, wait a minute and digest it and
Speaker 5: then listen to it again then the next day and think,
Speaker 5: is this really something I want to put out there?
Speaker 5: Because you're only going to get better at what you do,
Speaker 5: so why not wait and make sure that it's as
Speaker 5: good as it can get before you share everything that's happening.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think that's really important because we do live
Speaker 3: in this culture of like, if I made something, I
Speaker 3: have to put it out there for everyone to see,
Speaker 3: and especially as you're this baby artist, like that can
Speaker 3: be intimidating to say the very least of you know,
Speaker 3: putting something in front of people. And I think there's
Speaker 3: power in allowing it to be for yourself for a
Speaker 3: little while and nurture yourself and let yourself grow.
Speaker 8: Yeah.
Speaker 9: I love all those sentiments I have with the urges.
Speaker 9: It's like this urge to like show the process and.
Speaker 10: Like how much I've improved, but really, like I like
Speaker 10: what you were saying about like sitting on it and
Speaker 10: then also writing the bad music, like it's all like
Speaker 10: a part of the process.
Speaker 5: It is, and you should write that down, just write
Speaker 5: wait on a nice like index card or piece of paper.
Speaker 5: I put it on your mirror and then really think
Speaker 5: it through. Don't do things like listen. I am a
Speaker 5: very impulsive person, but I've learned over the years, and
Speaker 5: it took me a long time to learn this.
Speaker 1: So you're twenty two.
Speaker 5: So if you can take this advice and really stick
Speaker 5: with it, you're gonna be even more successful than you
Speaker 5: would have been had you not taken advice.
Speaker 1: But wait, whenever you have an.
Speaker 5: Impulse, just seriously sleep on it, look at it again
Speaker 5: in the morning, and if you feel the same way,
Speaker 5: then sure, put it out. But just don't do things
Speaker 5: by like the seat of your pants. It's just not
Speaker 5: as productive as people think it is.
Speaker 7: Yeah, and Ali, Ali, Like, I will tell you a
Speaker 7: quick story about how I have auditioned for every single
Speaker 7: talent show that's on television. Like when I was a teenager,
Speaker 7: my mom dragged me to American Idol Star Search, America's
Speaker 7: Got Talent, The Voice. They all said no, And I
Speaker 7: moved to Nashville when I was twenty three just to
Speaker 7: write songs for other artists. And I didn't get a
Speaker 7: record deal until I was twenty six, So like, thank god,
Speaker 7: I didn't make it onto any of those shows because
Speaker 7: I was so corny and not ready, like not ready
Speaker 7: to be seen on a public level by any means,
Speaker 7: and I just wouldn't have handled it well. But by
Speaker 7: the time I was like twenty five is twenty six,
Speaker 7: I was like, Okay, I know what my sound is.
Speaker 7: And that's after also like fifteen years of touring that
Speaker 7: I was like, it took me a second to learn
Speaker 7: from other writers in Nashville, like how to write songs
Speaker 7: and how to collaborate. So yeah, just like that was
Speaker 7: my patient's lesson was thank god all these shows said
Speaker 7: absolutely not to me, because now I think I'd be
Speaker 7: I'd be cringing and like trying to scrub it from
Speaker 7: the internet.
Speaker 6: So it happens when it happens.
Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, I'm really reallyeved to hear that because like
Speaker 9: I kind of am sitting on that too, because like
Speaker 9: I have urages to like sign up for like try
Speaker 9: you know those shows they were talking about.
Speaker 1: It's I just.
Speaker 10: Want to wait like till I am like feeling fully confident.
Speaker 1: Yes, wait for that. It's coming. It's coming your way,
Speaker 1: I promise.
Speaker 3: And Mary, you bring up a really good point about
Speaker 3: collaboration too. I would love to see you ali as
Speaker 3: you're getting started in this, like find yourself a community
Speaker 3: of musicians, find one or two other people who you
Speaker 3: can like a jam with, like run things by because
Speaker 3: it is such a collaborative process.
Speaker 1: And as far as.
Speaker 3: Posting stuff, like it's not to say you can't be recording,
Speaker 3: because I think that's a great idea to be recording
Speaker 3: your progress as you go, but like, don't feel pressure
Speaker 3: to post right now.
Speaker 8: Thank you.
Speaker 9: That's really good to hear.
Speaker 1: Oh well, good luck with everything. Thanks for calling in.
Speaker 9: Thank you for giving all the experience.
Speaker 1: Yeah, of course.
Speaker 2: We'll check in with you in six months.
Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, thank you so much.
Speaker 6: Awesome Sally.
Speaker 5: You guys, I would review that as an A plus
Speaker 5: call call and deliver great, great advice from an actual musician,
Speaker 5: a successful musician, and me. Okay, we're going to take
Speaker 5: a break. We're going to take a break and come
Speaker 5: back and say goodbye to Maren Morris. Please tag me
Speaker 5: for the special because I get so many tags about
Speaker 5: my books, but I'm not getting as many about my special,
Speaker 5: and my Special is the newest thing out, so I
Speaker 5: want to make sure all my ardent fans are watching
Speaker 5: it and tagging me, and I'll repost you and yes
Speaker 5: it's called the Feeling, and we're back with Maren Morris.
Speaker 5: I want to just read a quote before we say
Speaker 5: goodbye to Maren. This is with her new album Dreamsicle
Speaker 5: Is comes out May ninth on all platforms, and this
Speaker 5: is an album quote from Maren that I want to read.
Speaker 5: Dreamsicle takes place in the aftermath of loosening my grip
Speaker 5: on my personal and professional life, sweeping through the pits
Speaker 5: of grief but never staying too long, and finding the
Speaker 5: joy in knowing that at my core, I'm still who
Speaker 5: I am and that's pretty fucking great. No monster in
Speaker 5: the mirror, no shame laid in decade or unraveling what happened,
Speaker 5: just acceptance, release, and the reclaiming of how strong I've
Speaker 5: always been, with no need to dim or water down
Speaker 5: its essence any longer. Dreams the Call became less about
Speaker 5: the hard lessons and more about enjoying the bumpy ride
Speaker 5: and finding people who genuinely want to be on.
Speaker 1: It with you because they love you.
Speaker 5: It's about appreciating and respecting the beauty and nuances of
Speaker 5: life while it's happening, not after it's too late. That's
Speaker 5: really beautiful and I wanted to share that with all
Speaker 5: of our listeners.
Speaker 1: Oh, thank you the spirit the spirit of your album.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I would say so.
Speaker 7: And I wrote that like three months ago, so I'm like,
Speaker 7: I'm glad I still feel this way.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 7: I think it's just it's so tough to like put
Speaker 7: work out and be like, is this like your magnum opus,
Speaker 7: Like you just can't think about that. You just have
Speaker 7: to write what you're going through and have the stones
Speaker 7: to put it out and be received and loved and
Speaker 7: critiqued and hated and all the shit. But it's like
Speaker 7: you have to get it out of your body and
Speaker 7: your mind, and I think, yeah, there is such a
Speaker 7: release in that and not feeling like tethered to the
Speaker 7: past or the like practice of nostalgia and just truly
Speaker 7: being able to enjoy something while you're still in it.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 7: I mean, let's circle back when I'm forty and I'll
Speaker 7: revisit that quote. But I feel proud of it.
Speaker 1: You should feel proud of it. I'm proud of you.
Speaker 5: And I don't even I don't say that in a
Speaker 5: patronizing mother maternal way.
Speaker 1: I just mean, from woman to woman, I'm proud.
Speaker 6: Well, same.
Speaker 1: I'm going to try and catch you on tour.
Speaker 5: The tour starts July twelfth and shows she's doing US,
Speaker 5: Europe and UK. So get your tickets at Marenmarris dot com.
Speaker 5: And I'm going to come find you, Maren and come
Speaker 5: to one of your shows.
Speaker 7: Yes, yes, I know you saw me at the Pink Show,
Speaker 7: but yes, this will be our stage.
Speaker 1: Yeah for sure. Yeah, we'll be back. So nice speaking
Speaker 1: with you today.
Speaker 6: Thank you, yeah, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1: Have a great day y'all too. Bye, every buy.
Speaker 5: Okay, my remaining dates for Vegas. There are remaining dates
Speaker 5: for this year. Summertime is coming and I will be
Speaker 5: in Vegas at the Cosmo doing my residency on July fifth.
Speaker 5: We will be the next date that I'm there July fifth,
Speaker 5: August thirtieth.
Speaker 1: And then November one and twenty ninth.
Speaker 5: November one and November twenty ninth, I will be in
Speaker 5: Las Vegas at the Cosmo performing Inside Myself at the Chelsea.
Speaker 1: It's called Chelsea at the Chelsea for a reason. Okay,
Speaker 1: thank you.
Speaker 3: Do you want advice from Chelsea? Right into Dear Chelsea
Speaker 3: podcast at gmail dot com. Find full video episodes of
Speaker 3: Dear Chelsea on YouTube by searching at Dear Chelsea pod.
Speaker 1: Dear Chelsea is edited and
Speaker 3: Engineered by Brad Dickert executive producer Catherine Law and be
Speaker 3: sure to check out our merch at Chelseahandler dot com