1
00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,960
Speaker 1: Natively in pod is the production of iHeartRadio in partnership

2
00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:04,120
Speaker 1: with Reason Choice Medium.

3
00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:11,880
Speaker 2: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome Home. Everybody. This

4
00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:16,600
Speaker 2: is Tiffany Cross, Angela Raie and is me Andrew Gillom. Tiffany'

5
00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:22,560
Speaker 2: you are tuned into this week's mini pod, And to

6
00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:24,720
Speaker 2: be fully transparent with you, we were actually going to

7
00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:27,320
Speaker 2: go in a different direction, but I think our nerves

8
00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:30,760
Speaker 2: have really been pricked by you know, the news of

9
00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:34,080
Speaker 2: the day, and yes, the Trump conviction. But really I

10
00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:36,040
Speaker 2: think what we want to delve into a little bit

11
00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:41,279
Speaker 2: is how our language, and more than our language, how

12
00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:45,760
Speaker 2: Trump is experiencing the system, the exceptions that have been made,

13
00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:50,839
Speaker 2: the curves that have been cut, if it's plausible to

14
00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:53,519
Speaker 2: apply it to him, is it possible that some of

15
00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:56,480
Speaker 2: those same things one may be never needed to exist

16
00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:58,760
Speaker 2: in the first place and should be wholesale applied to

17
00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:02,120
Speaker 2: the rest of us. We're talking about everything from the

18
00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:07,320
Speaker 2: beginning of the process of an investigation, charges, a grand

19
00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:10,319
Speaker 2: jury and arraignment when you have to go and submit

20
00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:14,560
Speaker 2: yourself a trial and selection of a jury, to how

21
00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:17,759
Speaker 2: a verdict is received by the public. Is it legit

22
00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:21,320
Speaker 2: is it illegitimate, illegitimate? What makes it illegitimate? And who

23
00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:24,199
Speaker 2: gets to decide that? And so today I'm hoping we'll

24
00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:28,399
Speaker 2: spend just a few minutes on this subject and invite

25
00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:31,959
Speaker 2: you all into the conversation as well. Tiffany Angel, I'd

26
00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:34,320
Speaker 2: love to just sort of sort of kick it off

27
00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:38,400
Speaker 2: with each of you reflecting on beyond just the guilty

28
00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:41,360
Speaker 2: verdict itself and the Trump trial, and the way in

29
00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:44,199
Speaker 2: which this has been talked about, largely in cable news,

30
00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:47,560
Speaker 2: but also in print and otherwise on social media, how

31
00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:51,400
Speaker 2: folks have weaponized I think certain terms, and therefore, how

32
00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:56,680
Speaker 2: have y'all either been conflicted or pricked or reminded of

33
00:01:56,680 --> 00:02:00,440
Speaker 2: something that you're like, you know this, it doesn't feel right.

34
00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:03,360
Speaker 2: Something about this isn't isn't working for me.

35
00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:05,200
Speaker 3: I think there are a lot of things that don't

36
00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:08,440
Speaker 3: feel quite right, and I think we actually may have

37
00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:11,440
Speaker 3: been last week we went into like what we thought

38
00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:14,560
Speaker 3: was wrong with the trial in itself. But I think

39
00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:20,720
Speaker 3: for me, there is this celebration of his mugshot or

40
00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:23,760
Speaker 3: remember when they used to be at Trump rally saying

41
00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:26,560
Speaker 3: lock her up. I don't have a desire to say

42
00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:30,280
Speaker 3: lock him up. Back, like you know, him going to jail,

43
00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:32,880
Speaker 3: like maybe just so that we were no longer like

44
00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:35,800
Speaker 3: threatened by his presence. Fine, but, like I gotta be

45
00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:40,880
Speaker 3: honest with you, my natural disposition is not to thrive

46
00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:43,680
Speaker 3: in people being locked up. I'm not quite abolitionist all

47
00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:46,040
Speaker 3: the way, but I'm pretty dag gone close. And so

48
00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:51,400
Speaker 3: I think that this case is making me look very

49
00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:54,400
Speaker 3: hard at where my hypocrisy lives and where my blind

50
00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:58,960
Speaker 3: spots are. I think what is frustrating and maddening to

51
00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:01,200
Speaker 3: me about Donald Trump is the way that he's using

52
00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:03,640
Speaker 3: our language to make it seem like he's having that

53
00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:09,240
Speaker 3: same experience, when in fact, he's having like the concierge version. Yes, yeah,

54
00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:14,720
Speaker 3: it's it's ridiculous, but if we are now saying or not,

55
00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:17,799
Speaker 3: we are. But there are folks among us whose politics

56
00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:20,160
Speaker 3: were more aligned with are saying, call him a felon,

57
00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:22,160
Speaker 3: call him for what it is, all of these things.

58
00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:25,080
Speaker 3: I just don't really delight in that. Like I I

59
00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:29,000
Speaker 3: would much rather figure out how to use his concierge

60
00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:32,720
Speaker 3: version to democratize access for that version of the justice

61
00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:36,280
Speaker 3: system than to have him reversal and going back to

62
00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:38,120
Speaker 3: what we know has not served us and has been

63
00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:40,800
Speaker 3: overly burdensome and harsh to us. Even thinking about the

64
00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:43,760
Speaker 3: man we just talked about who didn't couldn't pay child supports,

65
00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:47,040
Speaker 3: so his license was suspended. So I'm just thinking about

66
00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:50,400
Speaker 3: these terms felon. Should we be calling someone a felon?

67
00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:52,840
Speaker 3: We already say returning citizens? So why am I gonna

68
00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:56,040
Speaker 3: say felling about Donald Trump? If we are saying, you know,

69
00:03:56,920 --> 00:03:58,920
Speaker 3: we want him. You do the crime, you do the time, Well,

70
00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:00,880
Speaker 3: what does that time really look like? We talked about

71
00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:03,440
Speaker 3: some of that again on the last pod, But I

72
00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:06,400
Speaker 3: want to make sure that one of these key pieces

73
00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:09,120
Speaker 3: that's been driving me nuts around was should he be

74
00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:11,520
Speaker 3: able to run? Sure, he should be able to run.

75
00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:14,760
Speaker 3: And every one of the people in our communities who

76
00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:18,359
Speaker 3: has committed an act that they regret and they have

77
00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:21,719
Speaker 3: paid their time, and they have there's been restitution, and

78
00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:25,400
Speaker 3: they served a sentence, they should be able to vote.

79
00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:29,240
Speaker 3: And So I would much rather democratize access to this

80
00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:32,640
Speaker 3: alleged democracy than to be trying to find other ways

81
00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:36,000
Speaker 3: to shut it down, because what we know ultimately is

82
00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:37,680
Speaker 3: if we shut it down for Trump, there will be

83
00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:41,160
Speaker 3: an ironclad wall for us. That's the way the PEMM

84
00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:42,520
Speaker 3: swing swings violently.

85
00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:45,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I you know this, This is making me

86
00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:48,279
Speaker 1: think of other things of our ass as a community,

87
00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:56,359
Speaker 1: our ass ass and our to cover our asses in

88
00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:59,839
Speaker 1: the community with our ask And so with Donald Trump,

89
00:04:59,839 --> 00:05:02,560
Speaker 1: for example, let's say he does get locked up, Okay,

90
00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:06,480
Speaker 1: I don't really care. I don't know if that's gonna

91
00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:09,679
Speaker 1: impact how that impacts me personally. I think it impacts

92
00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:12,559
Speaker 1: the idea of America on a global stage for sure.

93
00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:16,360
Speaker 1: But I'm not getting a Donald Trump was locked up,

94
00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:19,280
Speaker 1: here's your prize. If Donald Trump is able to vote

95
00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:24,520
Speaker 1: in Florida, that is not impacting my community in a

96
00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:28,240
Speaker 1: big way. It's one vote, one person. It's making me

97
00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:31,360
Speaker 1: think of when Tucker Carlson was fired from Fox News

98
00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:33,960
Speaker 1: and everyone was saying, let's call this Tiffany cross Day

99
00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:36,320
Speaker 1: or let's everybody like celebrate Tiffany today, And I'm like,

100
00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:39,159
Speaker 1: I don't give a shit to Tucker Carlson. What is

101
00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:41,159
Speaker 1: that doing for? Did to put money in my pocket?

102
00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:44,440
Speaker 1: Did it offer me any restitution for things I've gone through?

103
00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:47,039
Speaker 1: Not really? So what do I care if this man

104
00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:51,359
Speaker 1: gets fired or not? Also, when Colin Kaepernick was unfairly

105
00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:54,960
Speaker 1: and unjustly dismissed from his job, and we were demanding,

106
00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:59,640
Speaker 1: but write black bag, we demand you let Colin Kaepernick play. Okay,

107
00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:01,600
Speaker 1: so we get this one man to play football. Our

108
00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:04,880
Speaker 1: ass that little you know, like we need to do

109
00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:08,240
Speaker 1: intel this point. Disrupt a system and you have to

110
00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:11,240
Speaker 1: participate in it, even if your participation is solely to

111
00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:14,800
Speaker 1: disrupt it and rebuild what actually services us. So I

112
00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:17,960
Speaker 1: definitely take your point about the individual action with Donald

113
00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:21,200
Speaker 1: Trump around the language, I would say, they are just

114
00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:25,520
Speaker 1: not a creative people. Like the everything we do they take,

115
00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:29,560
Speaker 1: and we are a bottomless bucket of creativity, of dopeness,

116
00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:32,920
Speaker 1: of slagger, innovation, all of that, and so they can't

117
00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:36,080
Speaker 1: even their insults are typically things that have derived from us.

118
00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:39,840
Speaker 1: They turn woke into a pejorative. You know, they didn't

119
00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:42,400
Speaker 1: they couldn't come up with something to support law enforcement.

120
00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:44,800
Speaker 1: So they took black Lives matter and said blue lives

121
00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:46,760
Speaker 1: I ain't never met somebody with blue skin. I don't

122
00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:48,919
Speaker 1: know what that means, but they like blue lives matter.

123
00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:51,640
Speaker 1: You can't even come up with your own slogans, you know,

124
00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:54,760
Speaker 1: like they it's thievery, non stop thievery, because that's what

125
00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:57,080
Speaker 1: they do. That's what they know how to do. So

126
00:06:57,160 --> 00:07:01,760
Speaker 1: when their jargon becomes dangerous, to your point about felons

127
00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:05,520
Speaker 1: and how we speak about that, I do wonder how

128
00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:09,400
Speaker 1: that language will start to impact policy. And even if

129
00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:12,520
Speaker 1: you know, on a wing and a prayer, if if

130
00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:15,520
Speaker 1: Biden is able to hold the White House, if Democrats

131
00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:18,160
Speaker 1: are able to hold the Senate, if they flip the House,

132
00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:23,120
Speaker 1: what does this mean for people who have adopted some

133
00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:26,880
Speaker 1: of that conservative language, you know, you know, like, we'll

134
00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:29,040
Speaker 1: show you that we're the true party of law and order.

135
00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:31,840
Speaker 1: Who typically gets impacted by that is us. So it

136
00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:34,160
Speaker 1: is I hadn't thought about it, honestly, Antil before you

137
00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:37,320
Speaker 1: raised that point. I'm like, oh, that is something to consider.

138
00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:39,720
Speaker 1: I don't know what the solution is. How do we

139
00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:40,360
Speaker 1: get ahead of this?

140
00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:42,800
Speaker 2: I think, how do we how do we co opt

141
00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:46,200
Speaker 2: them versus them co opting us? In this criminal justice

142
00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:48,640
Speaker 2: you know, pie, well one, why not we why not

143
00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:51,280
Speaker 2: call them to the carpet on their legislation? Y'all have

144
00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:55,880
Speaker 2: backbenched this large wholesale criminal justice reform piece of legislation.

145
00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:59,480
Speaker 2: Kim Scott was a part of, Corey Booker was a

146
00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:02,160
Speaker 2: part of We Got Bits and pieces of it, but

147
00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:05,880
Speaker 2: buying large wholesale the system the first step back, yeah,

148
00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:09,520
Speaker 2: I mean, but but the first step of a of

149
00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:14,880
Speaker 2: a tiny step, right, that's why. Yeah, and then real

150
00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:16,040
Speaker 2: gigantic lead.

151
00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:17,880
Speaker 1: And it's at a federal level. It's a lot of

152
00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:20,720
Speaker 1: those police policies were federal police that did very little for.

153
00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:23,280
Speaker 2: A little decisely. So if we took at the state level,

154
00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:26,840
Speaker 2: for example, Rondo Santis, you want to you know, shortcut

155
00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:31,560
Speaker 2: the system for restitute for returning of rights to uh A,

156
00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:36,160
Speaker 2: former felons or folks who identify as felons, then make

157
00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:39,280
Speaker 2: your work for everybody. Do it for everybody. If you

158
00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:41,280
Speaker 2: if you were in Congress and you're saying the system

159
00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:45,439
Speaker 2: doesn't work, that it is stacked against certain people, then

160
00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:49,000
Speaker 2: let's unstack it for everybody. If you're sincere and you're

161
00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:50,960
Speaker 2: genuine about that, you want to interrogate whether or not

162
00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:54,520
Speaker 2: the grand jury process was right and deciding to go

163
00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:56,720
Speaker 2: after him in the first place, and you think that

164
00:08:56,720 --> 00:08:59,319
Speaker 2: they will indict a ham sand which you feel that's real,

165
00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:01,880
Speaker 2: then take the teeth out of it. God damn grand jury.

166
00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:05,840
Speaker 2: Why should it be used as a cudgel of prosecutors

167
00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:08,760
Speaker 2: to go after who it is that they choose and

168
00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:11,520
Speaker 2: want to go after. If you believe that sincerely, then

169
00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:13,920
Speaker 2: it can't be true just in his case. It's got

170
00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:16,400
Speaker 2: to be true. It's got to be true in other cases.

171
00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:19,280
Speaker 2: And I would argue probably the over warman majority, and

172
00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:22,600
Speaker 2: I would reject their definition of that being his experience

173
00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:25,640
Speaker 2: and his experience alone. Right, So, as I looked at

174
00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:28,120
Speaker 2: these folks on the Sunday shows, and I listened to

175
00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:31,880
Speaker 2: well regarded senators and folks with real position and with

176
00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:37,640
Speaker 2: real power taking I mean a machete to the criminal

177
00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:40,800
Speaker 2: justice system as it sits in this country, except they

178
00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:43,920
Speaker 2: only limited to their comments about Donald Trump. If you

179
00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:46,160
Speaker 2: think it's wrong, if you think it's inherently bad, if

180
00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:47,800
Speaker 2: you think it needs to be leveled, if you think

181
00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:50,600
Speaker 2: prosecutors decide political enemies and then they go after them,

182
00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:52,439
Speaker 2: then figure out a way to defang it.

183
00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:54,880
Speaker 1: Well, Look, we could talk about the Hunter Biden case. Yeah,

184
00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:58,600
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, y'all so concerned about gun control here,

185
00:09:58,720 --> 00:09:59,679
Speaker 1: But that's what's the art.

186
00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:02,800
Speaker 2: One of them, not one of them, cited Hunter Biden's trial,

187
00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:06,800
Speaker 2: which began this week, as an example of a little

188
00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:11,600
Speaker 2: known statue being a never before applied statue being applied

189
00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:14,320
Speaker 2: to the son of the president. Right, they chose the

190
00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:19,640
Speaker 2: line of that. Republicans are now at the centerfold. They're

191
00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:22,760
Speaker 2: the example, they're the target of prosecutors. Well, no, Maryland

192
00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:23,800
Speaker 2: mostly is not a Republican.

193
00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:28,080
Speaker 3: I'm not a Republican, Joos, the prosecutor now attached to

194
00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:29,760
Speaker 3: the Hunter Biden case. That was the one who went

195
00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:31,040
Speaker 3: after Maryland people.

196
00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:34,120
Speaker 2: Again, a conservative who's really in the shop and the

197
00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:36,440
Speaker 2: you know, he's in the tank for you know, their size.

198
00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:40,800
Speaker 2: So the truth is is it wouldn't feel so goddamn

199
00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:45,520
Speaker 2: disingenuine and so dishonest and so wrong if they weren't

200
00:10:45,559 --> 00:10:48,080
Speaker 2: so selective about their usage. And it's already clear they

201
00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:51,319
Speaker 2: don't really have fidelity to fact or the truth. They

202
00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:55,160
Speaker 2: just need whatever the narrative is to fit their scenario.

203
00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:56,920
Speaker 2: And right now it happens to be Trump.

204
00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:00,120
Speaker 3: All right, y'all, we're gonna take a quick break and

205
00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:12,560
Speaker 3: we'll be right down. So just to take this a

206
00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:15,240
Speaker 3: step further, we're talking about the ways in which Donald

207
00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:18,560
Speaker 3: Trump's justice system should be everybody's justice system. We are

208
00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:20,680
Speaker 3: not trying to take him into the oppression of ours.

209
00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:22,880
Speaker 3: I know he thinks he's oppressed, but you don't know

210
00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:23,600
Speaker 3: oppression yet.

211
00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:24,440
Speaker 1: Let's press the work.

212
00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:25,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's roll this clip.

213
00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:30,439
Speaker 4: If Donald Trump can be a felon and be president,

214
00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:37,439
Speaker 4: then we absolutely, without a doubt in this country need

215
00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:42,240
Speaker 4: to make sure felon is removed off of all job applications,

216
00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:47,400
Speaker 4: felon is removed off of rental applications, felon is removed

217
00:11:47,559 --> 00:11:55,959
Speaker 4: off of professional certifications things like dentists, massage therapists, realtors,

218
00:11:56,280 --> 00:12:00,040
Speaker 4: mortgage loan officers. Those are professional certifications, anything like that

219
00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:02,520
Speaker 4: that felon needs to be removed off of it. Because

220
00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:05,600
Speaker 4: the highest position in the land should be the most

221
00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:08,520
Speaker 4: sacred and should be the example for everybody in this country.

222
00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:10,720
Speaker 4: This is not a political post. This is an equal

223
00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:14,360
Speaker 4: opportunity post, and this is a post that is about

224
00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:18,559
Speaker 4: not holding down the everyday average American citizen.

225
00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:19,679
Speaker 2: That's right.

226
00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:23,760
Speaker 3: I love this because I think that it demonstrates for

227
00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:26,880
Speaker 3: people who have been privileged not to have had any

228
00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:31,120
Speaker 3: entanglement with the criminal justice system. You don't know how

229
00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:34,560
Speaker 3: many areas it gimpax. Absolutely, do you know that if

230
00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:37,880
Speaker 3: you have a felony on your record, you can't even

231
00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:40,439
Speaker 3: get pre checked TSA pre checked for a certain amount

232
00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:43,520
Speaker 3: of time, you cannot get global entry for a certain

233
00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:44,280
Speaker 3: amount of time.

234
00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:46,760
Speaker 2: You cannot live in the housing authority with your family.

235
00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:49,360
Speaker 1: If a housing authority really may not.

236
00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:53,160
Speaker 2: Live in federal housing as a felon. Wow, with that label.

237
00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:57,839
Speaker 3: The scarlet letter. That makes life harder for you, more

238
00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:00,920
Speaker 3: expensive for you, more inconvenient for you. And I know

239
00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:03,800
Speaker 3: that people would argue that that is the price you

240
00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:07,320
Speaker 3: pay for being convicted. But what if you were wrongfully convicted?

241
00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:09,440
Speaker 3: What if you were convicted as a child but you

242
00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:12,120
Speaker 3: were tried as an adult. What if you made a mistake?

243
00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:15,320
Speaker 3: And what is the point if we keep saying you

244
00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:18,199
Speaker 3: were rehabilitated. We say that the system is supposed to

245
00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:20,920
Speaker 3: be about rehabilitation, but is it? Yeah?

246
00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:21,280
Speaker 2: Is it?

247
00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:24,120
Speaker 3: Ever? It only feels like punishment to our folks.

248
00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:27,000
Speaker 1: And if you're convicted, like if you had a like

249
00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:29,600
Speaker 1: a public defender who was encouraging you get a plea deal,

250
00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:31,240
Speaker 1: because it just goes to trial.

251
00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:31,920
Speaker 3: It'd be worse.

252
00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:32,440
Speaker 2: So just tak it.

253
00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:35,000
Speaker 1: But you're innocent and you're the only person with no

254
00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:37,320
Speaker 1: law degree here and everybody's telling you just plead your

255
00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:39,160
Speaker 1: case out. I do want to point out, though, I

256
00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:42,800
Speaker 1: love that clip that you played ban the box legislation.

257
00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:45,040
Speaker 1: I forgive me for being overpaired because I don't know

258
00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:47,800
Speaker 1: where it stands federally, but locally, this was a huge

259
00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:49,559
Speaker 1: piece of legislation.

260
00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:50,120
Speaker 3: Across the country.

261
00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:52,440
Speaker 1: Did you so, can you talk about it a bit?

262
00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:54,319
Speaker 1: I want people to know ban the box legislation is

263
00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:56,160
Speaker 1: when that is removed.

264
00:13:55,640 --> 00:14:01,120
Speaker 2: That's right. We don't ask about any previous criminal offenses

265
00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:06,240
Speaker 2: period in the application process, and only after the job

266
00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:10,240
Speaker 2: has been offered do we check your criminal background history

267
00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:13,720
Speaker 2: to see if the if the event has anything to do,

268
00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:16,240
Speaker 2: is that a financial crime? And we just hired you

269
00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:19,400
Speaker 2: as the bookkeeper? And then there is a conversation, not

270
00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:23,080
Speaker 2: even a withdrawal of the offer, a conversation so that

271
00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:24,840
Speaker 2: we can get into the nuance of what happened and

272
00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:27,120
Speaker 2: decide that that's still a movie you want to make. Right,

273
00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:30,680
Speaker 2: And so it measures people from their merit, not off

274
00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:32,960
Speaker 2: of the mistake you made, but it measures you on

275
00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:35,400
Speaker 2: your Are you qualified for the position? Do you have

276
00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:39,760
Speaker 2: the upper pos previous experience that will add to the

277
00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:42,000
Speaker 2: to the role. And if you meet that off of

278
00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:46,040
Speaker 2: the content of your person and the qualifications you present,

279
00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:50,400
Speaker 2: you get offered the job. And unfortunately, and I know

280
00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:52,520
Speaker 2: that there are various versions of this that exists around

281
00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:56,720
Speaker 2: the country. But where's the wholesale, you know, movement of that.

282
00:14:56,920 --> 00:14:59,800
Speaker 2: Where is the movement? The brother went through any number

283
00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:03,480
Speaker 2: of different feels at which this question is asking becomes

284
00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:07,560
Speaker 2: an immediate disqualifier for the position, an immediately disqualifier in

285
00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:11,920
Speaker 2: his jury. Well, the same thing about jury. If you

286
00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:13,440
Speaker 2: have a felony, that should.

287
00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:14,800
Speaker 1: Be the main person because you know what it is

288
00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:17,240
Speaker 1: like on the inside. And if you're deciding somebody's liberty,

289
00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:17,920
Speaker 1: you all.

290
00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:20,120
Speaker 2: Know what it's like on the inside. But you also

291
00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:23,600
Speaker 2: know what it's like to have a system gained against you.

292
00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:26,160
Speaker 2: Everywhere nowhere in the country.

293
00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:27,240
Speaker 1: You can serve on a jeury.

294
00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:27,840
Speaker 2: You may not.

295
00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:28,960
Speaker 3: I had no idea.

296
00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:31,480
Speaker 2: And if you and and in most places you certainly

297
00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:35,840
Speaker 2: can't vote, You certainly don't get to vote automatically. But

298
00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:37,720
Speaker 2: but that's what I'm saying. This is a moment, the

299
00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:40,360
Speaker 2: brother said. This is this brother said, this is not

300
00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:43,080
Speaker 2: a political statement. Is an equal opportunity, And this is

301
00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:45,080
Speaker 2: right because I think that's what we want to achieve,

302
00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:48,200
Speaker 2: even in this mini pod, which is if it is

303
00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:50,720
Speaker 2: good for the goosen, it's good for the gander. If

304
00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:52,880
Speaker 2: there are, if there are pieces of this that we

305
00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:56,320
Speaker 2: truly are critical love that you think do not serve us,

306
00:15:56,360 --> 00:16:00,400
Speaker 2: the people or the system, then this man to let

307
00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:04,000
Speaker 2: then then then then let's take this thing to the carpet.

308
00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:06,560
Speaker 2: Let's take it all the way through. Let's let's let's

309
00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:09,560
Speaker 2: think about it through its logical conclusion. What are the

310
00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:12,760
Speaker 2: many ways listed out in which the system does not

311
00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:14,920
Speaker 2: serve us, and rather it acts against us, and it's

312
00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:17,840
Speaker 2: not to the betterment of society, but rather simply to

313
00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:20,360
Speaker 2: be punitive or to get back at somebody. Okay, you

314
00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:22,920
Speaker 2: believe that, then let's go through and let's figure out

315
00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:24,680
Speaker 2: those pieces that we have to remove. And I think

316
00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:27,840
Speaker 2: if we can find common calls there, because their version

317
00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:30,000
Speaker 2: of common cause is simply saying, ah, he's a felony

318
00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:31,640
Speaker 2: and now he can relate to black and brown people.

319
00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:34,200
Speaker 2: That's in bold right, that then begin to get on.

320
00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:37,520
Speaker 2: It's disrespectful, it's disingenuous, it's not true, it's it's it's

321
00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:38,320
Speaker 2: it's malarchy.

322
00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:40,520
Speaker 1: Tell me you don't know black people. What I was saying,

323
00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:43,600
Speaker 1: you don't know black people, and it's real, and that ridiculously.

324
00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:43,720
Speaker 4: Ra.

325
00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:45,400
Speaker 2: I just think we got to use the moment if

326
00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:47,920
Speaker 2: we could as a co opt and I also think

327
00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:51,880
Speaker 2: it requires us to really interrogate the language that we use.

328
00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:52,440
Speaker 4: Well.

329
00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:56,360
Speaker 2: We refer to people what, regardless of their qualifications and

330
00:16:56,360 --> 00:16:58,400
Speaker 2: what they bring society, is simply a felon.

331
00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:01,080
Speaker 3: And one thing I want to just point out, Lolo

332
00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:04,320
Speaker 3: put in our research that as of now, thirty seven

333
00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:07,160
Speaker 3: states in over one hundred and fifty cities and counties

334
00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:09,880
Speaker 3: have implemented some form of being in the box legislation.

335
00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:16,879
Speaker 3: You know, I really appreciate you all leaning into this topic.

336
00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:19,119
Speaker 3: I think the person that's coming to mind and it

337
00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:21,600
Speaker 3: has just has been very heavy on my spirit. In

338
00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:24,280
Speaker 3: addition to Marilyn Moseby and what we're seeing her go

339
00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:27,600
Speaker 3: through on the other side of a conviction is Crystal Mason,

340
00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:31,520
Speaker 3: who of course is the black woman in Texas who

341
00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:35,199
Speaker 3: was convicted of a felony, was trying to get re

342
00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:39,280
Speaker 3: engaged in society, goes to vote and then faced five years.

343
00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:41,880
Speaker 3: Her conviction was overturned and then they went right back

344
00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:43,680
Speaker 3: at her. So we'll see what happens with Our prayers

345
00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:46,000
Speaker 3: and thoughts are certainly with Crystal and we hope for

346
00:17:46,119 --> 00:17:51,240
Speaker 3: the balancing scales of justice. This has been remarkable to

347
00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:54,160
Speaker 3: watch all the contortions that people will make for one man.

348
00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:55,800
Speaker 3: Hopefully they can figure out how to do it for

349
00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:56,239
Speaker 3: all of us.

350
00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:59,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, level it up. If it's good for him or

351
00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:03,400
Speaker 2: bad for him, then then then consider whether it's good

352
00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:04,639
Speaker 2: or bad for the rest of us.

353
00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:05,400
Speaker 1: I'm glad we did this.

354
00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:09,159
Speaker 3: This was a good podcast and thank you for listening. Everyone.

355
00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:12,400
Speaker 3: Please make sure that you are sending in your comments

356
00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:15,119
Speaker 3: and your thoughts not just on this this issue, but

357
00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:18,800
Speaker 3: so many more. Remember to rate, review, subscribe, and tune

358
00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:23,520
Speaker 3: it into our regular episode on Thursday. Welcome Home, y'all.

359
00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:41,480
Speaker 3: Native Lampard is a production of iHeart Radio in partnership

360
00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:46,119
Speaker 3: with Reasoned Choice Media. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit

361
00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:49,639
Speaker 3: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to

362
00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:50,600
Speaker 3: your favorite shows.