1 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:09,040 Speaker 1: From Bloomberg News and iHeartRadio. It's the Big Take. I'm 2 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:13,120 Speaker 1: Westcasova today, the rapper who got mixed up in a 3 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 1: wild global plot Proz Michelle, the famed rapper and founding 4 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 1: member of the pioneering hip hop group The Fujis, goes 5 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:34,560 Speaker 1: on federal trial later this month. He's charged with multiple 6 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 1: counts and what can be described, without a hint of exaggeration, 7 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:43,280 Speaker 1: as a real life international tale of intrigue. It involves 8 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:48,000 Speaker 1: a long cast of characters, including a list Hollywood celebrities, 9 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:52,559 Speaker 1: a fugitive Malaysian businessman, the Chinese government, and both the 10 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:57,639 Speaker 1: Obama and Trump White Houses. My Bloomberg colleagues Anthony Cormier, 11 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:01,520 Speaker 1: Jason Leopold and Matthew can Well have captured this whole 12 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 1: saga in a brilliant story for Business Week, and they're 13 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:07,080 Speaker 1: here with me now to tell us what they found. 14 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:12,679 Speaker 1: Matt at the center of this story is a Malaysian businessman. 15 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 1: His name is Joe Lowe. Can you tell us about him? So, Joel. 16 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:21,200 Speaker 1: His full name is low Take Joe, but everyone knows 17 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:24,840 Speaker 1: him as Joe loo. He is a Malaysian financier. He 18 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 1: is from Penang on the West coast of Malaysia. He 19 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:31,959 Speaker 1: was the central figure in what is known as the 20 00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 1: one MDB scandal, which is one of the biggest alleged 21 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:40,200 Speaker 1: frauds of certainly the last twenty or thirty years. The 22 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 1: central event here was the creation of a sovereign wealth 23 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 1: fund in Malaysia called one MDB. US prosecutors and others 24 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 1: alleged that Joe essentially looted billions of dollars out of 25 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 1: this fund, which he diverted to a yacht, art real 26 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 1: estate in New York, in Los Ange Angelists, a Bombardier 27 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:06,280 Speaker 1: corporate jet. He was very well known in certainly in 28 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:10,960 Speaker 1: Hollywood entertainment circles, particularly notably he financed The Wolf of 29 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:14,920 Speaker 1: Wall Street, very good Martin Scorsese film. He was throwing 30 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:19,720 Speaker 1: parties in places like Centrope. He owned a boutique hotel 31 00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:23,959 Speaker 1: in Los Angeles. He had a penthouse in the Mandarin 32 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:28,239 Speaker 1: Oriental in New York, very closely associated over the years 33 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:31,080 Speaker 1: of Leonardo DiCaprio, who of course was the star of 34 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 1: The Wolf of Wall Street. So yeah, if you were 35 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:37,480 Speaker 1: among a sort of a list social set between about 36 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:40,880 Speaker 1: two thousand and nine and twenty fifteen, you would very 37 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:45,079 Speaker 1: likely run into Joe Low and you might get gifts 38 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:47,360 Speaker 1: worth a few hundred thousand or a few million dollars 39 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:49,960 Speaker 1: if he took a shine to you. For a period 40 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 1: of about five years, he was one of the most 41 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:57,760 Speaker 1: prominent people on basically the global party circuit, and US prosecutors, 42 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:02,840 Speaker 1: among others, believe that this was all financed with stolen funds. 43 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 1: Joe's thing was he was known to throw off cash. 44 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:09,560 Speaker 1: There's a story that we found in some of these 45 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:14,519 Speaker 1: FBI files in which Kim Kardashian was at a gambling 46 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:16,960 Speaker 1: sort of event with him in Las Vegas, and they 47 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 1: were playing baccarat in one of the private rooms. And 48 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:24,400 Speaker 1: as the men are gathered around the table, including Joe 49 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:27,800 Speaker 1: and some of his associates, Miss Kardashian is there and 50 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:31,240 Speaker 1: she's going to leave very early, but a friend sells 51 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:33,919 Speaker 1: her no, no, hang out for a little bit. Joe 52 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:36,720 Speaker 1: is known for throwing off chips at the end of 53 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 1: the night, and so she continued to play baccarat with 54 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 1: the men, and at the end of the night she 55 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:45,320 Speaker 1: had some chips. She went to return them to Joe 56 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 1: and he said, no, no, they're for you, and she 57 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 1: goes to the cashier at the casino and learns that 58 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:54,000 Speaker 1: she has three hundred and fifty thousand dollars in winnings. 59 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 1: This was one of the many times that Joe gave 60 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 1: celebrities very extraordinary and extravagant gifts. One of the things 61 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 1: that Joe quite often bought. In addition to artwork and 62 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:10,600 Speaker 1: real estate, he bought quite a lot of jewelry. But 63 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:14,920 Speaker 1: he was extraordinarily giving to a model called Miranda Kerr. 64 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:21,560 Speaker 1: She's given back about eight million dollars in gems, earrings, pendants, 65 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:26,280 Speaker 1: things of that nature. He was, for all intents and purposes, 66 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:29,279 Speaker 1: a guy who celebrities were drawn to because of his 67 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 1: fabulous wealth. Anthony, what do these celebrities say about Joe 68 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:37,839 Speaker 1: Lowe and his gift giving? We reached out to Miranda Kerr, 69 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 1: Kim Kardashian, and Leonardo DiCaprio for comment. Representatives for Kerr 70 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 1: and DiCaprio declined to comment, and a representative for Kim 71 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:49,760 Speaker 1: Kardashian didn't respond to a detailed list of questions we 72 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:53,719 Speaker 1: sent Jason. One of the celebrities that Joe wanted to 73 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 1: get close to was Raz Michelle. How did the two 74 00:04:57,040 --> 00:05:01,159 Speaker 1: of them meet? Praz Michelle is one of founding members 75 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:06,240 Speaker 1: of the legendary hip hop group the Fujis group that 76 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:10,839 Speaker 1: sold millions of copies of their second album, The Score 77 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 1: back in the nineties. And Pros was a person who 78 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:21,839 Speaker 1: we learned from reporting this story, somebody that really wanted 79 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:26,400 Speaker 1: to be involved in politics. He was someone that spent 80 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:30,880 Speaker 1: a considerable amount of time raising money for President Obama's 81 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 1: reelection campaign back in two and twelve. He had aspirations 82 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:40,680 Speaker 1: to work as an ambassador. And it's those connections that 83 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:45,279 Speaker 1: he had in some of the political circles that surrounded 84 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:50,360 Speaker 1: a former President Obama that Joe wanted to tap into. 85 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:53,760 Speaker 1: Like most celebrities, they met at a nightclub. Pros is 86 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 1: invited to a place in the meatpacking district in New 87 00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 1: York City, and all he knows is that the person 88 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:03,040 Speaker 1: he's with is from Malaysia and has loads of money. 89 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:06,839 Speaker 1: Gets to the nightclub and there's some sort of brassy 90 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 1: folks in the crowd who grab the microphone and they're 91 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 1: trying to show off their wealth, and they tell the 92 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:15,039 Speaker 1: crowd that they're going to buy everybody a drink. Then 93 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 1: this really unassuming, portly, baby faced Malaysian man pays twenty 94 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 1: thousand dollars to grab the microphone, and he decides to 95 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:25,159 Speaker 1: sell the crowd that he's not just buying everyone a drink, 96 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 1: but then he's going to buy every single bottle in 97 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:30,919 Speaker 1: the club, and that the staff members go across the 98 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:35,159 Speaker 1: street to another nightclub and buy their liquor. Two. That 99 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:38,479 Speaker 1: gives you a sense of not only Joe those extravagant wealth, 100 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:40,960 Speaker 1: but how willing he was to share it not only 101 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 1: with celebrities, but on these really lavish, extravagant parties. So 102 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:49,400 Speaker 1: this party took place in two thousand and six and 103 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 1: they didn't reconnect for another five years. When Joe wanted 104 00:06:55,240 --> 00:07:01,240 Speaker 1: to tap into process connections with President Obama and his administration. 105 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:06,280 Speaker 1: How did politics kind of form the basis of that 106 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:11,240 Speaker 1: relationship almost from the start. So in twenty twelve, Barack 107 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 1: Obama is running for reelection. Like a lot of celebrities prose, 108 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 1: Michelle is a very passionate Obama supporter. He donated a 109 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 1: fair bit of money. He wanted to raise money, and 110 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:28,280 Speaker 1: US prosecutors alleged that one of the ways he raised 111 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:32,760 Speaker 1: money was by getting it from Joelo. This was kind 112 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 1: of a situation where the stars aligned. Joe wanted to 113 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 1: build his influence in the US. He wanted to be 114 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 1: a bigger player. And of course, you know, being a 115 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:45,800 Speaker 1: donor to someone like Barack Obama helps make you a player, 116 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 1: and so did Proz. So what is alleged by US 117 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:53,520 Speaker 1: prosecutors is Joel, who, of course, as a non US citizen, 118 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:56,880 Speaker 1: is not permitted to be donating to American political campaigns, 119 00:07:56,880 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 1: sent about twenty one million dollars to Prize, who then 120 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 1: turned around and took a portion of that money, about 121 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:08,440 Speaker 1: two million, and filtered it out to support Obama's reelection effort. 122 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:12,679 Speaker 1: And this forms the basis of some of the criminal 123 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:15,680 Speaker 1: case against Pros. Michelle, what do you mean when you 124 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 1: say filtered it out? Of course, if you are Joel 125 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:22,680 Speaker 1: Malaysian citizen, you can't just write a check to the 126 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 1: Obama campaign. They won't take it. They have to be 127 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 1: convinced that you're not someone who's prohibited from donating, ie, 128 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:32,680 Speaker 1: only an American or a permanent resident can donate to 129 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 1: a US political campaign. So what Pros is accused of 130 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 1: is taking this money from Joelo, using that money to 131 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:44,480 Speaker 1: make some donations in his own name and in the 132 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:47,720 Speaker 1: name of one of his companies. Thus making it look 133 00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:50,200 Speaker 1: like this money was coming from him, a US citizen, 134 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 1: and also filtering out a bunch of this cash to 135 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 1: what are called straw donors, who are essentially middlemen who 136 00:08:57,640 --> 00:08:59,320 Speaker 1: you know, if I write a check to someone and 137 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:01,559 Speaker 1: they then turn around and write a check to a 138 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:05,080 Speaker 1: political campaign, that person is functioning as a straw donor. 139 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:08,920 Speaker 1: For me, I am the real donor, although on anyone's 140 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:12,640 Speaker 1: disclosure as far as a campaign is concerned, that middleman 141 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:15,880 Speaker 1: will be the donor, so it conceals the origins of 142 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 1: the donation, so you can't see that it came from 143 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:23,880 Speaker 1: a foreign donor exactly, Jason, What does praz Michelle say 144 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:28,280 Speaker 1: about all this? So, proz Michelle's lawyer, David Kenner has 145 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 1: said that proz Michelle he relied on advisors to manage 146 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:35,320 Speaker 1: his financial activities, essentially saying that he didn't do anything 147 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 1: wrong and that he related on experts to advise him 148 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:43,400 Speaker 1: on how he should proceed. And Joe's desire to get 149 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:47,800 Speaker 1: close to the top of the US government kind of 150 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:52,720 Speaker 1: paid off that he actually was able to meet President Obama. 151 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 1: Joe had this desire to be seen and photographed with, 152 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:02,240 Speaker 1: certainly with celebrities and and Obama was, you know, the 153 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:05,839 Speaker 1: political figure that he really wanted to be seen with. 154 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:10,280 Speaker 1: In two thousand and twelve, there are campaign events being 155 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:17,320 Speaker 1: planned and Praz is urging to allow Joe to attend 156 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:20,760 Speaker 1: some of these fundraising events, which he's not allowed to 157 00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:24,240 Speaker 1: first of all because he's being told he's a he's 158 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:28,280 Speaker 1: a foreigner, and just that's something they can't do. And 159 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 1: finally gets to the end in two thousand and twelve, 160 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 1: in around November twenty and twelve, where there's a holiday 161 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:41,040 Speaker 1: party at the White House and Prose again asks can 162 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:44,640 Speaker 1: Joe go? Can he attend this? And while he's there, 163 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:47,640 Speaker 1: he's photographed with President Obama. And so that's sort of 164 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:51,600 Speaker 1: like this big trophy for Joe to have this photograph, 165 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:54,600 Speaker 1: and that you know, made him feel good just having that, 166 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:58,960 Speaker 1: and it also put Prase into a position where he 167 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 1: could actually helped sell the fact that he had these connections. 168 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:08,320 Speaker 1: And that was certainly one of those instances where optics 169 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:11,960 Speaker 1: were very important, Joe being seen with Obama, Prose being 170 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:16,120 Speaker 1: in his own right planning a campaign event as well 171 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:21,319 Speaker 1: where he too is seated with President Obama. The relationship 172 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:24,800 Speaker 1: between PRIs and Joe seems to be going pretty well 173 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:32,840 Speaker 1: until the one MDB scandal just explodes. What happens then Anthony, 174 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:37,000 Speaker 1: The FBI begins an investigation of how the money was 175 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 1: looted from one MDB and where it went. And what 176 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:46,320 Speaker 1: Joe does is he as this investigation heats up around him, 177 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:51,679 Speaker 1: he turns first to Prose, figuring the Prose has a 178 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 1: rolodex of friends and politics, particularly in the Obama administration, 179 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 1: and then he turns to the Chinese which is one 180 00:11:59,880 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 1: of the few places on the globe that might be 181 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 1: able to protect him from the long arm of American 182 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:09,920 Speaker 1: law enforcement. What he asks of Prose is to assemble 183 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:15,400 Speaker 1: a team of influential political figures to begin to knock 184 00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 1: back the forfeiture complaints and the investigations of his business dealings. 185 00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:23,200 Speaker 1: So Jolo turns to Praz, who has these connections to 186 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:27,200 Speaker 1: the Obama administration. But it's now twenty seventeen, the obamaministration 187 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:30,160 Speaker 1: is out, this is the Trump administration, and he doesn't 188 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:33,520 Speaker 1: have the same kind of rolodex or connections that he 189 00:12:33,559 --> 00:12:36,599 Speaker 1: would have in the past. So what Praz does is 190 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:39,360 Speaker 1: he begins to reach out to individuals who are close 191 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:51,560 Speaker 1: to the Republican administration. Our story continues after the break, Anthony, 192 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:55,440 Speaker 1: as you report, the FEDS are circling around Jolo looking 193 00:12:55,559 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 1: for the billion stolen in the one MDB scandal, and 194 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:03,240 Speaker 1: Joe s his friend, the rapper Pras Michelle for help 195 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:06,560 Speaker 1: finding a sympathetic year in a new Trump White House. 196 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:11,240 Speaker 1: What does Pras do? First? He turns to businesswoman and 197 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 1: TV producer based in Hawaii called Nicki lum Davis. She 198 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:21,079 Speaker 1: had long supported Republican causes, She had connections in Republican circles, 199 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:25,600 Speaker 1: and Niki lum Davis suggests that Pras reach out to 200 00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:30,280 Speaker 1: a Republican fundraiser based in California called Elliott Broidy. So 201 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:34,760 Speaker 1: what they wanted Broidy to do was essentially use his connections, 202 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 1: his connections to the Trump administration. He had been a 203 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:43,880 Speaker 1: well known fundraiser, He had connections to new individuals who 204 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:48,600 Speaker 1: were being appointed within the Trump administration, notably Jeff Sessions 205 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:53,960 Speaker 1: who was tapped to be Trump's Attorney General, and use 206 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:59,199 Speaker 1: those connections to help get this one MDB case dropped 207 00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:03,160 Speaker 1: and essentially get the heat off the show. You know. 208 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:06,800 Speaker 1: In order to secure Brody's help, Lowe had to first 209 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:10,920 Speaker 1: pay a retainer to him of eight million dollars if 210 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:17,240 Speaker 1: he was successful in getting the Justice Department to drop 211 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 1: you any forfeiture actions related to one MDB in a 212 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:26,960 Speaker 1: certain timeframe six months was initially discussed. It would cost 213 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 1: Joe seventy five million dollars, and it took longer than that, 214 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:33,080 Speaker 1: it would be fifty million. So right out of the gate, 215 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:36,840 Speaker 1: Broidy sees dollar signs and they're off to the races. 216 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 1: Broidy did go to the administration and plead Joe's case. 217 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:45,320 Speaker 1: How did that go? Broidy and lum Davis did try 218 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:49,640 Speaker 1: to get the Trump administration to back off its pursuit 219 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 1: of Jolo and of assets believed to be improperly accumulated 220 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:58,480 Speaker 1: through the looting of one MDB. They didn't really get anywhere. 221 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:01,920 Speaker 1: They did certainly try at the top levels of the 222 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 1: US government. But this was a really big DOJ prosecution. 223 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:11,280 Speaker 1: It had already attained a sort of momentum that would 224 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:14,400 Speaker 1: have made it very difficult to stop at this point. So, 225 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:17,560 Speaker 1: despite the best efforts of Broidy and lum Davis, the 226 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:22,480 Speaker 1: Trump administration did continue going after Joe Lowe and all 227 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:25,760 Speaker 1: the assets that he and his allies had accumulated around 228 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:31,320 Speaker 1: the world. Anthony, what do Elliot Broidy and Nicky lum 229 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:35,480 Speaker 1: Davis say about their alleged role in this We reached 230 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 1: out to Elliot Broidy and Nicky lum Davis for comment. 231 00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 1: A representative for mister Broidy declined to comment, and representatives 232 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 1: for missus Davis didn't respond to a detailed list of 233 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 1: questions we sent mad. In the story, you write that 234 00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 1: Joe is getting concerned that he's not going to be 235 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 1: able to make these charges go away, and he's looking 236 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 1: for a different way out. So in the spring of 237 00:15:56,880 --> 00:16:02,200 Speaker 1: twenty seventeen, this very flamboyant I think is the word 238 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:08,040 Speaker 1: Chinese billionaire named Guongue starts getting into the news. He 239 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:12,240 Speaker 1: is a real estate developer from Beijing who moves to 240 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:15,520 Speaker 1: New York, takes up a massive apartment in the Cherry 241 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 1: Netherland on Fifth Avenue with this amazing view of Central Park, 242 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:22,640 Speaker 1: and he sort of wears kind of funny outfits and 243 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:25,080 Speaker 1: gives a lot of media interviews, and he's kind of 244 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:31,040 Speaker 1: a curiosity to start, except then he starts making really 245 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 1: amazing claims about corruption and the top leadership of the 246 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:40,680 Speaker 1: Communist Party, and very specific claims about, for example, the 247 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:46,080 Speaker 1: families of certain leaders owning major assets. A lot of 248 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 1: this was never proven. In fact, I think all of 249 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 1: it was never proven. Most of it was denied over 250 00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:54,840 Speaker 1: the years. But he certainly had people's attention, and Guo 251 00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 1: definitely had the attention of the Chinese government because one 252 00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:01,080 Speaker 1: of the red lines in China is talking about the 253 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:03,360 Speaker 1: wealth of the leadership. That is a subject that is 254 00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:08,320 Speaker 1: the most sensitive imaginable. So at this time, China is, 255 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:13,880 Speaker 1: as we reported, looking for ways to silence Guo, And 256 00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:16,440 Speaker 1: the position of the Chinese government in this period is 257 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:18,960 Speaker 1: Guo as a criminal. He's implicated in all kinds of 258 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:22,280 Speaker 1: white collar crime. We need to get him back, and 259 00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:25,200 Speaker 1: we need to get him back by extraditing him on 260 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:30,360 Speaker 1: these non political offenses bribery, embezzlement, that kind of thing. 261 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:33,800 Speaker 1: They clearly want him quiet and silenced and back in 262 00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:36,800 Speaker 1: China where he can disappear. So at this point, with 263 00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:41,480 Speaker 1: the government in Beijing very upset about Quo, very eager 264 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:46,119 Speaker 1: to silence him, Joe Lowe turns to prose Michel, his 265 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:50,359 Speaker 1: friend the Fuji's Rapper, to put together an effort to 266 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:54,600 Speaker 1: convince the US government to essentially kick Guoengue out of 267 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:57,320 Speaker 1: New York. This is the chaotic early days of the 268 00:17:57,359 --> 00:18:01,000 Speaker 1: Trump administration when kind of anything's possible, so it wasn't 269 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 1: totally crazy for Joel and the Americans he ended up 270 00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:08,119 Speaker 1: working with to think that they could press the Trump 271 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:13,639 Speaker 1: administration to allow or indeed to actually send Guo Ho 272 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:19,280 Speaker 1: Jolo was working on two priorities simultaneously, One to get 273 00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:23,399 Speaker 1: the US to drop its pursuit of one MDB it 274 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:28,880 Speaker 1: drop its investigation of this huge alleged financial fraud, and 275 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:32,399 Speaker 1: two to curry favor with China, basically as a plan B, 276 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:35,320 Speaker 1: so that Joelo would have a place to go if 277 00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:38,000 Speaker 1: the worst happened and he ended up getting indicted, as 278 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:41,359 Speaker 1: indeed he was in late twenty eighteen. It's important to 279 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:46,919 Speaker 1: note that Guo has always denied wrongdoing in relation to 280 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:50,400 Speaker 1: these offenses of which he's been accused by China, and 281 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:54,160 Speaker 1: has said the Chinese government is pursuing a political vendetta 282 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:58,919 Speaker 1: against him. Anthony report that despite all this plotting to 283 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:02,040 Speaker 1: influence the White House, none of this was actually working, 284 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:06,160 Speaker 1: and the advert to a curry favor with China wasn't 285 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:11,200 Speaker 1: working either. What happened the matter isn't being taken very 286 00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:14,720 Speaker 1: seriously by the top levels of the Trump administration, at 287 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:18,760 Speaker 1: least in the beginning, and clearly as our documents and 288 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 1: our reporting show that the FBI's International Corruption Unit is 289 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 1: marching right along investigating witnesses, scoping out bank accounts. They 290 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:31,119 Speaker 1: are really forging ahead with a criminal inquiry of Low 291 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:34,720 Speaker 1: and others. And so the Chinese learned that the Glow 292 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:39,159 Speaker 1: matter hasn't really proceeded. One way that they come up 293 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:43,520 Speaker 1: with to get this idea a hearing at the highest 294 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:46,320 Speaker 1: level is to call Steve Win. A lot of people 295 00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:49,159 Speaker 1: know the Win casinos in Las Vegas. Steve Win is 296 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:52,760 Speaker 1: the founder of Win Resorts. Like a lot of casino companies, 297 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 1: the big money at Win comes from not Vegas, but Macau, 298 00:19:56,960 --> 00:19:59,480 Speaker 1: which is the largest gambling hub in the world. So 299 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 1: Wins someone who had done a lot of business in China, 300 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:06,120 Speaker 1: dealt with Chinese officials over the years, and crucially had 301 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:11,680 Speaker 1: access to President Trump. So Broidie asks when to put 302 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:15,480 Speaker 1: in a word with President Trump about Guoangue, this exiled 303 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:19,440 Speaker 1: billionaire living in New York who China wanted back. When 304 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:23,600 Speaker 1: does so? He brings up this matter with President Trump 305 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:25,560 Speaker 1: at a dinner in the White House in late June 306 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:30,399 Speaker 1: twenty seventeen. He drops off a copy of Guo's passport 307 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:33,520 Speaker 1: with Trump's secretary in the course of attending this dinner, 308 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 1: so that everyone knows who they're talking about. He then, 309 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:40,480 Speaker 1: through that summer July and August of seventeen, has a 310 00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:45,000 Speaker 1: number of conversations with White House officials where he emphasizes 311 00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:49,159 Speaker 1: that China really wants Guo sent home and would be 312 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:52,240 Speaker 1: willing to do various things for the US in exchange 313 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:56,439 Speaker 1: for that happening. Now, Win has maintained, and his lawyers 314 00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 1: have maintained repeatedly that his role here was just a messenger, 315 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:02,800 Speaker 1: was just taking information from China to the White House, 316 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:06,600 Speaker 1: nothing more, not a lobbyist, you know, certainly not acting 317 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 1: on behalf of the Chinese. The doj disagreed and actually 318 00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:14,600 Speaker 1: sued to force Win to register as what's called a 319 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:17,520 Speaker 1: foreign agent for the Chinese government. Win ended up winning 320 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:19,840 Speaker 1: that case and convincing a judge that he did not 321 00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:25,920 Speaker 1: need to register. The US has a very unusual piece 322 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:30,880 Speaker 1: of legislations called the Foreign Agents Registration Act. Yeah Farah, 323 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:34,720 Speaker 1: And essentially what Farah means is, if you are working 324 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:38,040 Speaker 1: on behalf of a so called foreign principle meeting a 325 00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:41,639 Speaker 1: foreign government or even a foreign company doing lobbying work 326 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:44,840 Speaker 1: in the United States, you have to register with the 327 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:48,600 Speaker 1: Justice Department, and you have to file these very detailed 328 00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:52,000 Speaker 1: disclosures that say what you were paid, what you were doing, 329 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:55,120 Speaker 1: who worked on it, that sort of thing. These registrations are, 330 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:57,440 Speaker 1: as you can imagine, a gold mine for journalists. They're 331 00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:01,120 Speaker 1: absolutely incredible. If you do not regis and you lobby 332 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:04,160 Speaker 1: on behalf of a foreign principle, you can get into 333 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:07,920 Speaker 1: very deep trouble. And indeed that's part of what our 334 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:10,959 Speaker 1: characters here were accused of. In the end, Jason, all 335 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:14,240 Speaker 1: three of you are telling this story with a lot 336 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:18,560 Speaker 1: of insider detail. How did you find all of this out? 337 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:20,600 Speaker 1: How do you know all the details in your story? 338 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:27,160 Speaker 1: We used quite a bit of public records, court documents. 339 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:30,320 Speaker 1: We also spoke to people close to the case. In 340 00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 1: addition to that, we were able to review FBI and 341 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:40,600 Speaker 1: Department of Justice records, and these records provided extraordinary insight. 342 00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:42,760 Speaker 1: So let me set the scene for you a bit. 343 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:46,919 Speaker 1: You know, the FBI is reaching out to representatives or 344 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:52,560 Speaker 1: attorneys for these celebrities or other individuals that are sort 345 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:55,480 Speaker 1: of caught up in this investigation, and they're trying to 346 00:22:55,600 --> 00:23:00,719 Speaker 1: arrange interviews with Leonardo DiCaprio, with Kim Kardashian, and in 347 00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:03,600 Speaker 1: some instances they're just sending a list of questions and 348 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:06,720 Speaker 1: their lawyers respond But in the case of Leonardo DiCaprio 349 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:10,320 Speaker 1: and Kim Kardashian, who also did sit for interviews with 350 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:14,040 Speaker 1: the FBI, you know, the FBI asked them very pointed questions, 351 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:16,640 Speaker 1: and those questions were, how do you know Jolo, when 352 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:20,520 Speaker 1: did you meet, what did he give you? And they're 353 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:24,959 Speaker 1: explaining that in great detail, But it goes even further 354 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:31,119 Speaker 1: because the FBI has asked for evidence. So in many instances, 355 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:36,720 Speaker 1: the government has obtained emails, photographs, of various types of 356 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:42,440 Speaker 1: records from these folks that really does lay bare exactly 357 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:46,879 Speaker 1: what they received from Jolo, and they were able to 358 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:49,879 Speaker 1: kind of follow the money and trace it to one MDP. 359 00:23:51,200 --> 00:24:00,080 Speaker 1: We'll be right back in the end. Despite all of 360 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:04,480 Speaker 1: this effort, the US didn't drop its investigation of one MDB. 361 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:11,560 Speaker 1: Guo was never extradited back to China, and all of 362 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:15,520 Speaker 1: these efforts were sort of fruitless. So where do things 363 00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:19,080 Speaker 1: stand now with all the people who were involved in 364 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:23,520 Speaker 1: this story. Nicky lum Davis pleaded guilty to one count 365 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:26,560 Speaker 1: of aiding and abetting violation of Farah, which is that 366 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:30,919 Speaker 1: legislation which requires anyone lobbying for a foreign client to 367 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:34,920 Speaker 1: register with the Justice Department. Broidy pleaded guilty to one 368 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:38,560 Speaker 1: count of conspiracy to violate Farah. That was in October 369 00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:41,920 Speaker 1: of twenty twenty, but he was then pardoned by President 370 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:45,399 Speaker 1: Trump in his final hours in office, so he didn't 371 00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:48,760 Speaker 1: end up doing any time. Nicki lum Davis was recently 372 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:51,639 Speaker 1: sentenced to two years in prison for her own guilty 373 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:57,240 Speaker 1: plea and Anthony What happened to pras Michelle So Proz 374 00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:00,240 Speaker 1: faces the trial of his life. He's been charged with 375 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:05,680 Speaker 1: ten very serious crimes, ranging from witness tampering to conspiracy. 376 00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:11,400 Speaker 1: He goes on trial in late March, and he has 377 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:15,960 Speaker 1: got really this very unusual witness list that promises to 378 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:19,960 Speaker 1: make the trial very interesting publicly. Among the potential witnesses 379 00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:24,440 Speaker 1: are Presidents Obama and Trump, as well as the world's 380 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:29,600 Speaker 1: most famous movie star, Leonardo DiCaprio. Why didn't he take 381 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:33,760 Speaker 1: a plea like the others? Proz maintains that he is innocent. 382 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 1: His attorney will tell you that Praz was just acting 383 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,960 Speaker 1: as a connector. He didn't in fact mean to lobby 384 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:45,959 Speaker 1: on behalf of a foreign official government, and that he 385 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:50,639 Speaker 1: believes the US government the FBI has long been trying 386 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:53,400 Speaker 1: to flip him to get him to cooperate, and when 387 00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:56,360 Speaker 1: he did not, they decided to charge him with these 388 00:25:56,440 --> 00:26:00,560 Speaker 1: very serious offenses. If he's convicted, p stand to serve 389 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:04,199 Speaker 1: the most time as anyone convicted in the US on 390 00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:09,840 Speaker 1: these very serious charges. What's really fascinating about the records 391 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:12,120 Speaker 1: that we've been able to review that have not been 392 00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:18,560 Speaker 1: disclosed before is how important the FBI and prosecutors saw 393 00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:24,160 Speaker 1: prose as being a potential witness in their investigation into 394 00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:30,679 Speaker 1: one MDB, and they note that they want to essentially 395 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:34,840 Speaker 1: try to leverage him to become a cooperating witness and 396 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:37,960 Speaker 1: try to get him to cop to a plea as 397 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 1: it related to these other crimes when he refused. One 398 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:44,480 Speaker 1: of the reasons that he refused, and his lawyer would 399 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:46,760 Speaker 1: say this is that they wanted him to plead guilty 400 00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:50,240 Speaker 1: to a fair violation. It would require him to serve 401 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,120 Speaker 1: more than a year in prison and essentially give up 402 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:57,760 Speaker 1: the bulk of his wealth, and they felt that that 403 00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:01,720 Speaker 1: was unfair in addition to the fact that he thought 404 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:03,919 Speaker 1: he had not committed any crimes. But you get to 405 00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:07,600 Speaker 1: see really behind the scenes when the FBI is communicating 406 00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:10,480 Speaker 1: with the Justice Department. What they're saying is is if 407 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:14,440 Speaker 1: Proz does not cooperate, he knows what's coming right, And 408 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:20,159 Speaker 1: what ultimately came was this superseding indictment which listed or 409 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:24,200 Speaker 1: identified even more serious crimes that he's going on trial 410 00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:27,240 Speaker 1: for now. At the end of March, Matt China didn't 411 00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:30,640 Speaker 1: manage to have going way extradited. Where is he now? 412 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:35,720 Speaker 1: So Guo, despite the very energetic efforts of the Chinese 413 00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:38,439 Speaker 1: government to get him sent home, did not end up 414 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:43,320 Speaker 1: being deported or extradited. It's not totally clear why that happened. 415 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:46,000 Speaker 1: How he was able to keep his perch in the 416 00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:48,719 Speaker 1: US may have something to do with his friendship with 417 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:52,320 Speaker 1: Steve Bannon, who kind of glommed on to Guo around 418 00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:54,840 Speaker 1: mid to late twenty seventeen and became one of his 419 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:58,960 Speaker 1: close allies. He remains in the US. He's been trying 420 00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:01,760 Speaker 1: to sell his apartment in the Sherry, Netherland. I believe 421 00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:03,720 Speaker 1: the price has been cut a couple of times, and 422 00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:06,639 Speaker 1: it's still in the market. At last check, he was 423 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:10,760 Speaker 1: living in Connecticut, involved in various business ventures. He's had 424 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:14,840 Speaker 1: a very eventful, a very eventful life. But from his perspective, 425 00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:18,159 Speaker 1: what's important is he remains safely in America and not 426 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:22,800 Speaker 1: back in China. And Anthony, where is Joelo? I think 427 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:26,440 Speaker 1: that's the four billion dollar question, right, I mean, the 428 00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:29,200 Speaker 1: US government has been trying to find him. I can't 429 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:31,880 Speaker 1: count how many journalists have been trying to find him. 430 00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:35,000 Speaker 1: By all appearances, the last public appearance that has been 431 00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:39,720 Speaker 1: reported was at the Shanghai Disneyland where he was spotted 432 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:42,560 Speaker 1: with his family. He has not been brought back to 433 00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 1: the US and remains a fugitive, even though the US 434 00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:49,800 Speaker 1: government would like to charge him with you very very 435 00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:56,200 Speaker 1: serious offenses, Matt, At the end of this incredible saga, 436 00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:59,520 Speaker 1: what do you take away from this? Where I see 437 00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:02,560 Speaker 1: the takeaway here have to do with the US China 438 00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:07,840 Speaker 1: relationship and Chinese foreign policy. We see in this story 439 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:11,840 Speaker 1: a really vivid example of how determined the Chinese government 440 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:16,840 Speaker 1: was to neutralize what it saw as a threat. Guoangue 441 00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:19,960 Speaker 1: and his claims about corruption at the highest levels of 442 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:24,000 Speaker 1: the Communist Party. They were incredibly determined, and while Guo 443 00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:28,280 Speaker 1: managed to stay in the US, it certainly wasn't for 444 00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:31,840 Speaker 1: lack of trying by the Chinese government and with various 445 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:36,760 Speaker 1: people contracted to help. And I think that's interesting in 446 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:38,560 Speaker 1: light of some of what we've seen in the news 447 00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:42,920 Speaker 1: lately about Chinese efforts to sort of extend the reach 448 00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:45,520 Speaker 1: of law enforcement around the world. There's been a number 449 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:50,680 Speaker 1: of stories recently about Chinese police stations popping up, notably 450 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:53,880 Speaker 1: in Europe and in Canada, which a lot of governments 451 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:59,400 Speaker 1: are concerned are kind of beachheads for China to harass dissidents, 452 00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:03,320 Speaker 1: to push for the repatriation of people who, for whatever 453 00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:07,000 Speaker 1: reason it wants back, and essentially operate kind of outside 454 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:11,640 Speaker 1: any of the formal legal and diplomatic strictures that typically 455 00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:15,320 Speaker 1: regulate kind of law enforcement relations between countries. So I 456 00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:19,360 Speaker 1: think we saw in this story a really remarkable tale 457 00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:24,000 Speaker 1: of just how far this broader phenomenon went in one 458 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:26,960 Speaker 1: instance and might go again in the future. For me, 459 00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:32,600 Speaker 1: it's another example of how money acts as a lubricant 460 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:38,840 Speaker 1: to both parties, celebrities and films, but also the very 461 00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:43,800 Speaker 1: tippy top of the American political structure, and Joe had 462 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:47,920 Speaker 1: money which gave him access to not only a list stars, 463 00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:53,320 Speaker 1: literally the White House itself. We see how the allure 464 00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:58,320 Speaker 1: of that money attracted people who felt like they could 465 00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:02,280 Speaker 1: further his own twists as well as sort of their 466 00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:06,560 Speaker 1: personal ones. Anthony Jason Matt thanks so much for coming 467 00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:09,560 Speaker 1: on the show. Thank you us, thank you, thanks for 468 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:12,760 Speaker 1: having us, Thanks for listening to us here at The 469 00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:16,240 Speaker 1: Big Take. It's a daily podcast from Bloomberg and iHeartRadio. 470 00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:19,960 Speaker 1: For more shows from my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 471 00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:23,440 Speaker 1: Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen, and we'd love to 472 00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:26,320 Speaker 1: hear from you. Email us questions or comments to Big 473 00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:29,960 Speaker 1: Take at Bloomberg dot net. The supervising producer of The 474 00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:34,480 Speaker 1: Big Take is Vicky Bergolina. Our senior producer is Katherine Fink. 475 00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:39,560 Speaker 1: Federico Romanello is our producer. Our associate producer is Zenob Sidiki. 476 00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:43,840 Speaker 1: Raphael m Seely is our engineer. Our original music was 477 00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:47,720 Speaker 1: composed by Leo Sidrin. I'm west Kasova. We'll be back 478 00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:49,520 Speaker 1: tomorrow with another Big Take.