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Speaker 1: On the Bell Cast, the questions asked if movies have

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Speaker 1: women and um, are all their discussions just boyfriends and

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Speaker 1: husbands or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef in

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Speaker 1: best start changing it with the beck Del Cast. Hey, Jamie,

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Speaker 1: what Caitlyn? It's me Caitlin um your number one fan?

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Speaker 1: Oh shit, I've listened to every episode of the Bechtel Cast.

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Speaker 1: I've read your writing, I've seen your stand up. Do

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Speaker 1: you do the Matreon too? I have access to the Matreon. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I've listened to all those episodes. It's only five

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Speaker 1: dollars a month with over hundred episodes of backlog. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So either I'm your number one fan and and I'm scary,

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Speaker 1: or I'm just a really supportive friend I don't know,

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Speaker 1: or my co host and you're scary. I contain multitudes.

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Speaker 1: It's be so many combinations of things break my ankles,

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Speaker 1: like dare you I want a week off? How? Welcome

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Speaker 1: to the Bechtel Cast. That was a fun one, that

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Speaker 1: was having. Okay, Welcome to the Bechtel Cast. My name

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Speaker 1: is Jamie Loftus, my name is Caitlin Darante, and this

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Speaker 1: is our show where we examine movies through an intersectional

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Speaker 1: feminist lens, using the Bechtel test simply as a jumping

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Speaker 1: off point, just a way to initiate a larger conversation

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Speaker 1: about representation in media. But Jamie, yea, what is the

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Speaker 1: Bechtel Test? Oh? Well, I'm glad you asked after all

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Speaker 1: these years. The Bechtel Test is a media metric created

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Speaker 1: by queer cartoonist Alison Bechdel's sometimes called the Bechtel Wallace Test.

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Speaker 1: It was originally created as just sort of a one

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Speaker 1: off joke examination in a comic she made in the eighties,

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Speaker 1: but now it is sort of used as a broad

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Speaker 1: media metric to see how people of marginalized genders are

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Speaker 1: treated in movies. So the version of the test that

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Speaker 1: we use requires that two characters of a marginalized gender

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Speaker 1: with names speak to each other about something other than

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Speaker 1: a man for more than two lines of dialogue, and

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Speaker 1: it should be you know, a narratively impactful exchange. Do

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Speaker 1: you think when Kathy Bates talks to her female pig?

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Speaker 1: I wrote that down as like when Kathy Bates talks

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Speaker 1: to misery and they're only blinking at each other. It's

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Speaker 1: not my favorite pass, but there's an argument for it.

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Speaker 1: I also think that when Kathy Bates breaks someone's ankles,

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Speaker 1: it spiritually passes. That passes in spirit um. But we

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Speaker 1: have an incredible guest to help tease apart the intricacies

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Speaker 1: of what we would consider passing the factual test today.

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Speaker 1: So yes, we do. So let's get there in the room.

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Speaker 1: She's an actress and host of Trials to Triumphs podcast.

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Speaker 1: It's Ashley Blaine, Feather and Jenkins. Hi, Hello and welcome.

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Speaker 1: Thank you. So you brought us the movie Misery, did Yeah,

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Speaker 1: welcome to our cabin. By the way, Thank you. I

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Speaker 1: hope you feel safe. I hope you feel secure. I do.

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Speaker 1: Thank you very much, Actually I really do. Excellent. Um,

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Speaker 1: what is your relationship with this movie? Maybe the book,

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Speaker 1: could any anything related to this property. It's you know,

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Speaker 1: it's definitely the movie. I you know, I was born

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Speaker 1: in eighty seven, so you know Mry came out. I

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Speaker 1: believe in UM, so you know. I it was a

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Speaker 1: movie that my my family, my parents talked about and

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Speaker 1: then once I got old enough to watch it, well,

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Speaker 1: I probably watched it before I should have been watching it.

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Speaker 1: That's all. You should put that on the record. But

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Speaker 1: you know, I mean, I fell in love with it.

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Speaker 1: It's it's such a it's a well done film, it's

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Speaker 1: a well acted film. It is an emotion an old

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Speaker 1: film that somehow Kathy Bates still gives us moments of

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Speaker 1: odd levity. I don't even know levity is the word,

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Speaker 1: but she's still kind of makes you laugh. You know,

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Speaker 1: we're solving a mystery. Well we know the answer to

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Speaker 1: the mystery, but like, you know, this town is solving

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Speaker 1: a mystery. You know, it's it's got everything you could

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Speaker 1: want in a film. But yeah, I love it. I've

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Speaker 1: always like and it's one of my husband's favorite movies.

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Speaker 1: He watches it any times on TV. Okay, he's that guy.

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Speaker 1: Love it. Yeah, babe, getting the Room Miseries on and

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Speaker 1: you're like, wow, I feel so safe exactly. I'm like

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Speaker 1: this again, do we need to see the part where

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Speaker 1: she's taking off his feet? I don't want to see

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Speaker 1: I don't want to see the sledgehammer. I don't want

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Speaker 1: to see it. I saw that clip before I watched

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Speaker 1: the movie, so I guess so my relationship and you

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Speaker 1: know history with this movie. I've never read the book,

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Speaker 1: but I knew about the movie and the storage. Through

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Speaker 1: kind of cultural osmosis. I had seen the clip of

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Speaker 1: the ankle, just like with the sound. It's just like

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Speaker 1: the sound haunts me the most. So I had seen

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Speaker 1: that clip, and then I watched the full movie in college.

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Speaker 1: This would have been like probably fifteen years ago now,

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Speaker 1: and I hadn't watched it since, so I didn't fully remember, like,

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Speaker 1: what a good movie this is. You're right, it's like

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Speaker 1: very well, like, very well acted structurally, like from a

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Speaker 1: screenwriting point of view, good job Mr William Goldman, famous screenwriter.

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Speaker 1: So I was like, that guy knows what he's doing.

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Speaker 1: It's almost like he's an expert in his craft. But um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I enjoyed this movie. I'm excited to talk about it.

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Speaker 1: I think it'll be an interesting discussion through our Bechtel

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Speaker 1: cast lens. I'm still kind of processing, Yeah, I have

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Speaker 1: a lot of questions for the room. Yes, um, Jamie,

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Speaker 1: what's your relationship with it? I also did take in

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Speaker 1: a lot of this movie kind of through cultural osmosis.

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Speaker 1: I watched this movie with a friend last night, and

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Speaker 1: we both very strongly remembered seeing this movie parodied in

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Speaker 1: an episode of The Animaniacs um in the nineties, and

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Speaker 1: I think that that was my operating knowledge and like

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Speaker 1: those clip shows of like I love the nineties, Like

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Speaker 1: I totally knew about this movie via that, and I

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Speaker 1: knew I loved Cathy Bates because she's Entitanic. Oh my gosh,

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Speaker 1: the unsingable Molly Brown herself. Yeah, Annie Wilkes, you know,

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Speaker 1: more sinkable, let's say, uh, perhaps sinkable. Um. But I

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Speaker 1: haven't seen this movie before. I watched it in the

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Speaker 1: early pandemic lockdown where I was just it was, you know,

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Speaker 1: chaos mode. Um. I was like, who's got it? Who's

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Speaker 1: got it worse? Right now? And I think it was

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Speaker 1: actually coming up a lot because they're like, oh, it's

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Speaker 1: we all feel like James con and misery and you're like,

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Speaker 1: oh no. Anyways, I watched it for the first time then,

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Speaker 1: and I really enjoyed it. But I wasn't watching it

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Speaker 1: through a beackdel cast lens. I was just watching it

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Speaker 1: for a thriller and to cathartically also see someone inside

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Speaker 1: trapped inside. Yes, So revisiting it a couple of years

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Speaker 1: later was really really interesting. And I also think this

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Speaker 1: movie rocks. I didn't realize it was directed by Rob

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Speaker 1: Reiner question Mark, it doesn't feel like but it's so

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Speaker 1: good that you're like, all right, Rob Reiner, I guess

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Speaker 1: that you can direct something terrifying. That's not how I

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Speaker 1: associate it. He's eclectic. Look, he's got range. Everyone in

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Speaker 1: this movie has range. And I'm very excited to talk

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Speaker 1: about it. And I was also really excited to read

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Speaker 1: what Stephen King had to say about it because we've

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Speaker 1: covered a couple. I want to say, how have we

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Speaker 1: just covered Carrie for Stephen King? No, we covered the

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Speaker 1: Shining covered you and Stephen King. Um, you know. I

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Speaker 1: I want to, you know, defend my fellow New Englanders.

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Speaker 1: But he's kind of all over the map when it

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Speaker 1: comes to writing female characters, and like it's so it's

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Speaker 1: I'm interested to unpack it because I feel like Annie

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Speaker 1: Wilkes spoiler alert. I think she's a really good character. Anyways,

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Speaker 1: Yes she rocks. Yeah, dare I say I'm rooting for her?

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Speaker 1: But that's not how you're supposed to feel. I mean,

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Speaker 1: on one hand, I resent any movie that makes me

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Speaker 1: that wants me to root against Kathy Bates. On the

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Speaker 1: other hand, I support any character who is trying to

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Speaker 1: stop male artists from making art so well, there's so

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Speaker 1: many fun ways to come at this movie that I

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Speaker 1: didn't like. I just at first was watching it for

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Speaker 1: like whatever is happening. I'm I'm in full support. This

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Speaker 1: is great, but like, yeah, there's a way to watch

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Speaker 1: it that is like a pair of social relationship cautionary tale.

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Speaker 1: And then my my favorite read of this movie, which

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Speaker 1: is from Stephen king that I wasn't aware of before

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Speaker 1: I was just doing background for this episode, was that

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Speaker 1: when he was writing the novel, which I also have

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Speaker 1: not read the novel, but I looked up the differences.

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Speaker 1: It's not too many, except oh, here's a fun one.

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Speaker 1: So in the movie, she kills the sheriff with just

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Speaker 1: like a gun. In the book, she like runs him

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Speaker 1: over with a tractor. She like, yeah, she like she

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Speaker 1: really I know. But Stephen king Um had substance abuse issues.

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Speaker 1: He had he had a cocaine problem for a really

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Speaker 1: long time, and when he was writing Misery, he was

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Speaker 1: thinking of Annie Wilkes as his cocaine addiction and himself

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Speaker 1: as the writer, and so like there was a whole

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Speaker 1: other read of this movie where Annie is like just

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Speaker 1: this representation of addiction, like keeping this like writer who

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Speaker 1: writes all these famous books. Um trapped? Yeah, fascinating. Yeah right.

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Speaker 1: I was like, I was like, all right, all right,

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Speaker 1: Stephen King, he got me. Hmm, yeah, I can't wait

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Speaker 1: to dive into it more. Uh shall I do the recap?

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Speaker 1: Let's do it first and foremost. Okay, So we meet

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Speaker 1: Paul Sheldon played by James con He is an author

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Speaker 1: who finishes the novel he's been working on in a

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Speaker 1: remote cabin in Silver Creek, which is probably in Maine,

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Speaker 1: because Stephen King sets all of his stories in Maine

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Speaker 1: in Colorado? Is this in Colorado? Okay, just kidding. I

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Speaker 1: don't know what, but it is. I guess. The Shining

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Speaker 1: is also set in Colorado. So you've got Colorado and Maine,

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Speaker 1: and those are the only two states Stephen King cares about.

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Speaker 1: He loves the cold. He's a wink, he really does. Actually,

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Speaker 1: I'm into it. Yes, snow related danger seems harder to

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Speaker 1: get out of, right, Yeah, yeah, it's treacherous. So Paul

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Speaker 1: celebrates finishing his novel by smoking a cigarette and drinking

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Speaker 1: a glass of champagne. Then he gets in his car

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Speaker 1: with the manuscript drives off. But it's snowing heavily because

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Speaker 1: he's did in the Rocky Mountains. The roads are slippery,

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Speaker 1: and he slides off the road and rolls down an embankment.

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Speaker 1: We then flashback to Paul talking to his literary agent

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Speaker 1: played by Lauren Bicall. Love that I what a treat, right,

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Speaker 1: what a legend? Sorry, really quick, I just wanted to

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Speaker 1: make note of any any movie of this era when

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Speaker 1: there's a car crash, you get to see the whole

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Speaker 1: car crash. They just like they just wreck a whole car.

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Speaker 1: I feel like that doesn't happen anymore. So this is

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Speaker 1: early nineties, so practical effects are pretty mu the only

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Speaker 1: option that like car crashes these days, and movies are

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Speaker 1: like all c g I. But yeah, they're like, well

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Speaker 1: we have to do a car, a Dominic Toretto car crash.

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Speaker 1: This is just like a car rolling down the hill

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Speaker 1: in Colorado. It was right, I don't know, it's cathartic,

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Speaker 1: just to see an old school practical car crash. Yep. Okay.

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Speaker 1: So in this flashback, Paul is talking to Lauren Bicall,

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Speaker 1: and he's explaining to her why he killed off a

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Speaker 1: beloved character in his famous book series entitled the Misery series,

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Speaker 1: named for the main character whose name is Misery. Basically,

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Speaker 1: he wants to get away from this series and work

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Speaker 1: on other projects. We cut back to him in his car.

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Speaker 1: He's bloody and unconscious. Someone prizes his car door open,

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Speaker 1: pulls him out, and carries him off. Paul then wakes

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Speaker 1: up in a bed in the home of Annie Wilkes

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Speaker 1: played by Cathy Bates. Quick question, would the men have

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Speaker 1: worked for Annie Wilkes if they existed at the time? Thoughts, Well,

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Speaker 1: since the Minions famously work for the most evil person

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Speaker 1: they can find, right, I guess she didn't cut the

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Speaker 1: mustard in terms of evil. There must have been someone

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Speaker 1: more evil active at that time. Who was the most

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Speaker 1: evil person in? Oh? I mean we we have we

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Speaker 1: have options. Well, okay, that's uh, that's Jamie's Minions corner

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Speaker 1: for the week. Just some food for thought. Okay, So

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Speaker 1: Annie Wilkes Paul is in her home. She tells Paul

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Speaker 1: that she is his number one fan. She loves all

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Speaker 1: of his books, She's read them all. She's also a

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Speaker 1: nurse and she's going to take care of him while

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Speaker 1: he recovers from this car accident in which he has

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Speaker 1: been badly injured. Both of Paul's legs are broken, as

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Speaker 1: well as one of his arms. She gives him pain pill,

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Speaker 1: she has like put splints on his legs. He's like, well,

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Speaker 1: why don't you take me to a hospital, and she

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Speaker 1: says the blizzard was too strong, but once the roads

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Speaker 1: are clear, I'll take you to the hospital. He also

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Speaker 1: wants to call his agent and his daughter, and Annie says, oh,

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Speaker 1: but the phone lines are down because of the blizzard,

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Speaker 1: so you can't. I do love that he does do

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Speaker 1: like in terms of I don't know how you would

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Speaker 1: you call it. Is this a horror movie? Is this

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Speaker 1: a thriller movie? I don't really know what the exact

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Speaker 1: genre is. I think it's a it's thriller suspense. I

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Speaker 1: would say it's in that with some horrific imagery. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's sure there's some overlap because I just appreciate that

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Speaker 1: James Connon's character, so Paul Paul, I like that he

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Speaker 1: does do everything that a person would do in this situation,

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Speaker 1: and he doesn't like do the horror movie thing where

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Speaker 1: he's like all right, and you know, just like he

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Speaker 1: does challenger at every turn in a way that made sense.

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Speaker 1: Well and maybe there's a discussion about this as far

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Speaker 1: as gender goes. But the way men are written in

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Speaker 1: horror movies is very different from the way women are

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Speaker 1: written in horror movies when it's like a female protagonist.

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Speaker 1: When they're written by men, they are written in such

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Speaker 1: a way where they don't use logic. Yeah, so yeah,

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Speaker 1: perhaps we'll talk about that, perhaps perhaps a little foreshadowing.

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Speaker 1: Um okay, So meanwhile, um Lauren Bicall calls the local

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Speaker 1: sheriff of Silver Creek. She Laured call Lauren. She Lauren

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Speaker 1: makes a bo call and she calls Buster, the sheriff,

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Speaker 1: and she's like, Hey, no one has heard from Paul,

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Speaker 1: and I know that he was there in your town,

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Speaker 1: So any thoughts And he's like, don't worry, I'll investigate.

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Speaker 1: We cut back to Annie and Paul an He reiterates

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Speaker 1: that she's his biggest fan and that she's been following him,

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Speaker 1: and we're like, oh. She asks about his new manuscript

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Speaker 1: and he lets her read it, but then she complains

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Speaker 1: to him about all the swearing in the book and

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Speaker 1: she kind of snaps. She starts yelling, she spills soup

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Speaker 1: all over him. But then she's like, oh, I'm so sorry,

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Speaker 1: and also I love you, Paul. And then we're like

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Speaker 1: double oh, done, done, done, and and we also know

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Speaker 1: that Paul has killed off the like her favorite character

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Speaker 1: and the I think that that is like my favorite

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Speaker 1: bit of tension in this movie is like waiting for

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Speaker 1: Cathy Bates to get to the end of the book

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Speaker 1: and then she goes nuclear. But prior to that, she

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Speaker 1: has this little episode and Paul is starting to realize, oh,

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Speaker 1: she might not be entirely stable. Meanwhile, Buster, the sheriff,

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Speaker 1: is looking into Paul's possible disappearance. He is near Paul's car,

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Speaker 1: which is now completely covered in snow. Um so the

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Speaker 1: sheriff misses it. He doesn't see it. Also, the Sheriff's

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Speaker 1: his wife, Virginia. I just want to get her because

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Speaker 1: she's an iconic character. She's the best. I okay, I

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Speaker 1: don't like that this movie is also making me root

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Speaker 1: for a cop and his deputy, but I really I

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Speaker 1: found their on screen relationship very fun to watch, so sweet.

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Speaker 1: I love how she was like, was she about to

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Speaker 1: jerk him off in the car or something? And then

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Speaker 1: he's like, we're at work. I was like, all right,

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Speaker 1: this is this is good horny representation. Good for them

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Speaker 1: because at first you don't know they're married, and she's

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Speaker 1: like putting her hand on his leg and we're like,

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Speaker 1: oh no, what is about? What is inappropriate? Yeah? And

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Speaker 1: then she's like and then he and then Busters like, babe,

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Speaker 1: when you're in the car, you're not my wife, you're

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Speaker 1: my deputy. And it's like, Okay, they're married, still inappropriate

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Speaker 1: when they're on the job. I actually don't know whether

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Speaker 1: that comes from like even King or William Goldman or both,

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Speaker 1: but I just like those moments of levity are so fun. Like,

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Speaker 1: I just I love Virginia. I wish we got more

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Speaker 1: of Virginia. You know, after Buster is We're longer with us?

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Speaker 1: Where's the Virginia spinoff series? This movie has gotten a

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Speaker 1: lot of spinoffs, but all of them have to do

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Speaker 1: with Annie Wilkes, which I guess makes sense. Lizzie Kaplan

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Speaker 1: played her on a TV show that I did not watch.

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Speaker 1: I did not even know that. Yeah, she plays like

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Speaker 1: the young Annie Wilkes getting in Yeah. Yeah, so, um,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I didn't watch it. But and then

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Speaker 1: it was also a Broadway show starring Laurie Metcalfe. And

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Speaker 1: she wanted Tony for it, which also sounds pretty good.

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Speaker 1: I had no idea there was so much Misery content

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Speaker 1: out there, the Misery expanded universe, Like, don't rule out

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Speaker 1: the Virginia story. You mean the m C you the Misery,

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Speaker 1: Misery Cinematic Kid exactly? Awesome, awesome, Okay. So Annie continues

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Speaker 1: to be very creepy. She fawns over Paul's new book. So,

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Speaker 1: here's something that was confusing to me. The newest Misery

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Speaker 1: book in his Misery series has just been released and

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Speaker 1: is being sold a bookstource. So Annie gets a copy

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Speaker 1: of that. So she's reading that and his manuscript. So

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Speaker 1: when she's talking about like what she's reading, I was

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Speaker 1: never quite clear if it was his published book or

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Speaker 1: his unpublished manuscript. She's reading both concurrently, it seems, So

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Speaker 1: that's happening. And then Annie finishes the new book, the

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Speaker 1: published one, and learns that Paul has killed off the

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Speaker 1: Misery character, which absolutely devastates Annie. She lashes out. She

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Speaker 1: says she can't be around him, she needs to leave,

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Speaker 1: and she also reveals to him no one knows that

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Speaker 1: he's there. She never called his agent or daughter like

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Speaker 1: she said she did. And he's like even more isolated now,

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Speaker 1: so and he drives off, and Paul is trapped in

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Speaker 1: her house with two broken legs and he can't walk,

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Speaker 1: so he crawls out of bed, but oh no, he

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Speaker 1: is locked in his room. So the next day and

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Speaker 1: he comes back and she's like, I know how will

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Speaker 1: solve this. God showed me the way. You're going to

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Speaker 1: burn this manuscript. And she knows this is the only copy,

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Speaker 1: and she also starts dumping lighter fluid on him, so

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Speaker 1: he has no choice but to burn his manuscript. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: her like just being the super fan and knowing all

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Speaker 1: this information that like she's like no, because like, oh,

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Speaker 1: it's just so scary. It's so scary. It's just like

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Speaker 1: a number of times in the movie, she uses her

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Speaker 1: like super fandom knowledge of him against him because he's

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Speaker 1: like he tries to be like, well, there's a bunch

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Speaker 1: of copies floating around publishers, and she's like, you said

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Speaker 1: on an interview eleven years ago that you only you

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Speaker 1: don't make a copy bees because you're superstitious. So I

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Speaker 1: know that this is the only copy, and I'm making

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Speaker 1: you burn it. And he's like busted. It's like meeting

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Speaker 1: the person who edits your Wikipedia or you're You're like, no,

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Speaker 1: not you're Wiki, You're you're Wiki feet page uh and

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Speaker 1: and they want to kill you. It's it's so good

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Speaker 1: in the book, I guess that, um, And I was like,

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Speaker 1: this is like an interesting I guess. I don't know

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Speaker 1: what I prefer. I think I prefer the movie. In

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Speaker 1: the book, there is more than It's like a copy

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Speaker 1: of the book does survive, and he when he escapes

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Speaker 1: at the end, he publishes the original copy he wrote

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Speaker 1: and it becomes a big hit. He doesn't rewrite it.

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Speaker 1: I think I like it better when he rewrites it.

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Speaker 1: And it's about ptsd s. Yeah, I don't know. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So Paul has burnt his manuscript and then Annie sets

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Speaker 1: him up in a wheelchair with a desk, a typewriter,

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Speaker 1: and expensive paper so that he can write a new manuscript,

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Speaker 1: one where Misery isn't actually dead, and one where he's

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Speaker 1: paying tribute to Annie for saving his life and nursing

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Speaker 1: him back to health. And he's like, okay, but I

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Speaker 1: can't write on this paper. It smudges, which is just

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Speaker 1: an excuse to get her to leave, and which upsets

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Speaker 1: Annie and it makes her feel like he doesn't appreciate her,

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Speaker 1: so she storms off to go get this other type

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Speaker 1: of paper. While she's gone, Paul picks up a bobby

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Speaker 1: pin that has been left on the floor and uses

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Speaker 1: it to unlock the door to his bedroom. But, like

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Speaker 1: he does in his books, I love I love that sequence.

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Speaker 1: He's like, well, it does work. That's one of my

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Speaker 1: favorite sequences. It's great. Yeah, but I guess the front

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Speaker 1: door to the house is locked from the outside, so

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Speaker 1: he can't get out. So he's going around the house

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Speaker 1: trying to find a way to escape the telephone, like,

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Speaker 1: she has disabled the telephone, so he can't even make

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Speaker 1: a call. He hears her coming back, so he scrambles

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Speaker 1: back to his room relocks the door with a bobby pin,

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Speaker 1: just in the nick of time. Meanwhile, Paul's car is

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Speaker 1: finally found the Like area. Law enforcement thinks Paul is

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Speaker 1: dead in the woods somewhere, but Buster, the sheriff, doesn't

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Speaker 1: think so, so he keeps searching. And then you get

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Speaker 1: that amazing scene with him in Virginia or Virgins on

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Speaker 1: the phone being like, I don't know where he is.

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Speaker 1: He's probably out cheating on me, and she's like the

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Speaker 1: least professional person in the world. I love Virginia. Yeah, okay.

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Speaker 1: So then, at Annie's insistence, Paul starts writing a new manuscript,

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Speaker 1: and he doesn't approve at first, so she makes him

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Speaker 1: start over. He begins a new version, which Annie loves,

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Speaker 1: and then Paul is like, oh, well, you have dinner

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Speaker 1: with me tonight. Annie. He's clearly, you know, like cooking

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Speaker 1: up another scheme, which is that he puts the pain

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Speaker 1: meds that he has been stockpiling in her glass of

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Speaker 1: wine to drug her. But oh crumbs, she spills her

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Speaker 1: glass of wine and his plan doesn't work. It's so good,

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00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:13,280
Speaker 1: it's I love this movie. So then Paul keeps writing

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Speaker 1: this book. Annie is reading each new chapter as he

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Speaker 1: finishes it. She's loving it. Some time passes, I don't

393
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Speaker 1: really know how much. I'm thinking, like a couple of

394
00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:26,160
Speaker 1: weeks or so, enough to like get him a little

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Speaker 1: bit more healed up, and she's getting sad because, oh,

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Speaker 1: she loves him, and she knows that he doesn't love

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Speaker 1: her back. And his book is almost done and his

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00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 1: legs are getting better, so soon he will have no

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00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:41,920
Speaker 1: reason to be there anymore. And then Annie pulls out

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Speaker 1: a gun and says something about how she thinks about

401
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:51,160
Speaker 1: using it sometimes, and we're like, the steaks are getting high.

402
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 1: I don't do that. That monologue is like, so we'll

403
00:24:56,760 --> 00:25:00,280
Speaker 1: talk about it, but it's like it's it's just great. Yeah.

404
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:04,359
Speaker 1: Then Paul finds a bunch of newspaper clippings that suggests

405
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Speaker 1: Annie has killed a lot of people, including her husband,

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Speaker 1: other nurses, a bunch of babies at the maternity ward

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Speaker 1: of the hospital. She doesn't really discriminate who she'll kill,

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Speaker 1: really anyone, it seems, so Paul is really like, I

409
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 1: need to get the funk out of here. But then

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Speaker 1: she drugs Paul and when he wakes up, she has

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Speaker 1: strapped him to the bed and she basically intends to

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Speaker 1: keep him trapped there forever. Then we get the moment

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Speaker 1: that I believe the movie is best known for, which

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Speaker 1: is when she takes a sledgehammer to both of his

415
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:48,239
Speaker 1: ankles so that he can never get away. You can

416
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:51,960
Speaker 1: monologue to Oh, it's so good she I mean she

417
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:55,159
Speaker 1: wants this is the only fun fun fact from the

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Speaker 1: IMDV page. Um, this is the only so Cathy Bates

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Speaker 1: wont and ask for playing Annie Welks and it's the

420
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:07,919
Speaker 1: only Stephen King movie nominated that's ever actually one an

421
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:11,320
Speaker 1: oscar No kidding, Yeah, I mean we'll deserve He also wrote,

422
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:13,680
Speaker 1: I mean, he wrote, you would think Shawshank Redemption would

423
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:16,280
Speaker 1: have won something. That's what I say. They. I guess

424
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:19,119
Speaker 1: that they got snubbed across the board. I forget that

425
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:23,040
Speaker 1: Shawshank Redemption is a Stephen King thing. Yeah yeah, yeah, Wait, Jamie,

426
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:25,760
Speaker 1: did you say a scene that you can feel similar

427
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:31,480
Speaker 1: to Kman saying sound that you can feel the best

428
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:34,880
Speaker 1: thing ever made the AMC commercial? You don't, I would

429
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 1: say when it comes to Annie welkes cabin, heartbreak does

430
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:42,920
Speaker 1: not feel good in a place like that. Somehow heart

431
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 1: break feels bad in a place like Annie welks cabin. Yeah,

432
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:49,600
Speaker 1: because not only is your heartbreaking, so are your ankles.

433
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:58,199
Speaker 1: That's true, ys, your ankles and your will to live? Wow? Yes, okay,

434
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 1: so he his ankles are badly broken. Um. Then Annie

435
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:06,439
Speaker 1: goes back into town and Sheriff Buster sees her and

436
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:10,919
Speaker 1: he's like, hmmm, hang on a minute, there's something peculiar

437
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:14,560
Speaker 1: about this any person. Meanwhile, Paul is back at the

438
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:16,680
Speaker 1: cabin and he's like, well, I guess this is my

439
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 1: life now Annie comes back home and puts Paul in

440
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 1: her basement, and then Sheriff Buster comes over to Annie's

441
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:27,000
Speaker 1: house and wants to look around. He discovers Paul in

442
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:31,199
Speaker 1: the basement, but just then Annie murders him with a

443
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:35,720
Speaker 1: murders buster the sheriff with a shotgun, and she's about

444
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:39,360
Speaker 1: to kill both Paul and herself, but to save himself,

445
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:41,479
Speaker 1: Paul is like, no, no, no, Annie, I I do

446
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:44,080
Speaker 1: love you and and I want you to help me

447
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 1: finish this book. So there's a sequence where he's finishing

448
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:54,280
Speaker 1: the book. She's all happy and they're gonna celebrate, and

449
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:58,520
Speaker 1: he needs his champagne and his cigarette and a match

450
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 1: to light the cigarette. But he has when he was

451
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:05,560
Speaker 1: in the basement, he had procured a canister of lighter fluid,

452
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:08,159
Speaker 1: and so when she goes to get the champagne, he

453
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:12,360
Speaker 1: dumps the lighter fluid all over his manuscript and burns it.

454
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:14,439
Speaker 1: And she's like, oh my god, what the hell. And

455
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:18,359
Speaker 1: then there's a big scuffle there, you know, violently fighting

456
00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 1: with each other, and it's it's brutal. I mean that

457
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:26,360
Speaker 1: I always um surprised again by how and she comes

458
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 1: back to life at one point, oh, it's just little yeah,

459
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:34,400
Speaker 1: And it finally culminates in Paul killing Annie, and then

460
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:40,200
Speaker 1: we cut too sometime later, he has obviously been found

461
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 1: and rescued. He's made a Lauren Bicall. He made a

462
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 1: Lauren Bicall and got to safety and his ankles have healed.

463
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 1: He's able to walk again, and he meets with Lauren

464
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 1: Bicall and he has a new book, and also he

465
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 1: talks about he basically, you know, he describes his PTSD

466
00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 1: where he while he knows that Annie is dead, he's

467
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 1: still like sees her on and he's kind of tormented

468
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:10,360
Speaker 1: by the thought of of her in general, the concept

469
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:13,680
Speaker 1: of a brunette. And then at the end and the end,

470
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:18,520
Speaker 1: like a server comes up to him and she's like, Hi, Paul,

471
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:24,240
Speaker 1: I'm your biggest fan. And we're like, oh, and that's

472
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:25,960
Speaker 1: the end of the movie. So let's take a quick

473
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 1: break and we will come right back to discuss. And

474
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 1: we're back. Wow, where where shall we start the discussion? Actually?

475
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:46,920
Speaker 1: What what jumps out to you? I first want to

476
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 1: start with just I did some research too, and I

477
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:51,720
Speaker 1: thought it was just this is kind of an aside,

478
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 1: but I thought it was crazy how many people that

479
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 1: this film was offered to. That wasn't James Cohn or

480
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 1: Cathy Bay Yeah? Wa who? So the part of Paul Sheldon,

481
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 1: who ended up being played by James Cohn, was offered

482
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 1: to literally the names are endless him William Hurt twice.

483
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:17,440
Speaker 1: They offered it to him twice, okay, and he declined both,

484
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:19,480
Speaker 1: but they came back, We're like, are you sure, William.

485
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 1: I guess he was like, no. Kevin Klein, Michael Douglas,

486
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:29,280
Speaker 1: Harrison Ford, Dustin Hoffman, Robert de Niro, Al Pacino, Richard Dreyfuss,

487
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 1: Jene Hackman, and Robert Redford. All of these people said no.

488
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:36,960
Speaker 1: And I guess, oh, and Warren beat he was interested

489
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 1: in it but wanted to like change some stuff with

490
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:42,600
Speaker 1: the character. And I guess they were like, Warren, we

491
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:43,960
Speaker 1: don't have time for all this. Do you want to

492
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:46,600
Speaker 1: do the movie or not? And he was like, no,

493
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 1: actually I don't. And so I was like, I'll just

494
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 1: keep doing Dick Tracy. Yeah, yeah, and and then and

495
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 1: then he eventually had to literally drop out. Officially. I

496
00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 1: guess he used the Dick Tracy as kind of you

497
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:00,960
Speaker 1: know the reasoning for that, but JA, I don't know

498
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 1: how it got to James con But I don't know

499
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 1: if they were like, listen, James, we've reached out to

500
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 1: four hundred people. Are you down to do it all

501
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:12,920
Speaker 1: more famous than you? Yeah? And James was like yeah.

502
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 1: At the time, like I imagine it was like super simple.

503
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 1: He was like yeah, like how are you shooting for

504
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 1: a month? I can do that, like, and then it

505
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 1: became this amazing movie. And then Andy Wilkes was offered

506
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:28,200
Speaker 1: to Angelica Houston, which is like amazing. And Bette Midler

507
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 1: both turned it down. And Bette Midler is she said

508
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:38,920
Speaker 1: publicly that she's deeply regretted the decision to turn down

509
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:45,920
Speaker 1: the character. Well she was busy prepping for hocus Pocus. Yeah,

510
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 1: But I just like that as like a just an

511
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:52,960
Speaker 1: entry point, like I said, on the side, I guess

512
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:57,080
Speaker 1: just because it's such an iconic film and so many

513
00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:00,760
Speaker 1: people turned it down. I love hearing those stories where

514
00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:03,480
Speaker 1: it's like it was obviously exactly who it was supposed

515
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 1: to be. It was supposed to be James Connon in

516
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 1: in Cathy Bates, but it could have been so many

517
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:13,000
Speaker 1: other people. Wild to think about, and I just think

518
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:17,040
Speaker 1: it's like wild that um, I just can't get over

519
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:19,200
Speaker 1: the fact that this is a Rob Reiner movie on

520
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:21,320
Speaker 1: on top of everything else, and then this is like

521
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 1: Rob Reiner and William Goldman collaborate. I think back to

522
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:31,120
Speaker 1: back doing this and they had just done the Princess

523
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 1: Bride adaptation together three years before, and then they're like, okay,

524
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,920
Speaker 1: change of pace, what if we did Misery? And both

525
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:43,600
Speaker 1: of those movies are so iconic, it's like it's wild incredible.

526
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:47,239
Speaker 1: So my as I said, I'm still kind of like

527
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 1: processing this movie because I do think there are a

528
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:58,160
Speaker 1: number of ways to look at it's um. Yes, I

529
00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:04,120
Speaker 1: was kind of initially struck by the thrillers of this era,

530
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:11,680
Speaker 1: of which there are several where women are the scary person,

531
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 1: the captor, the abuser, you know, like the the villain

532
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 1: of the movie, who are often targeting men. Not always

533
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 1: you've got like single white female, um where it's two women.

534
00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 1: But if you're thinking about like Fatal Attraction as another

535
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:31,280
Speaker 1: one we've covered on the show and the and the

536
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:34,120
Speaker 1: woman has always killed at the end, yes, yea, so

537
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 1: she she's punished, and so I'm trying to think of

538
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 1: it where I'm like, is this sort of just like

539
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:46,160
Speaker 1: a like a screenwriting like creative choice, where writers are

540
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:52,880
Speaker 1: thinking of ways to subvert situations and expectations, because statistically,

541
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:57,280
Speaker 1: in real life it's men who are more often abducting

542
00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 1: people and abusing them in and being scary and creepy.

543
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 1: So is this just like or a writer's way of saying, oh,

544
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:09,920
Speaker 1: what if we you know, what if it's a twist,

545
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:13,719
Speaker 1: what if it's a woman this time? Or is it

546
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:20,799
Speaker 1: like male writers villainizing women because of sexist reasons? Is

547
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:23,960
Speaker 1: it something else? Is it all of the above. I

548
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 1: I'm very curious about creative choices, like this is what

549
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:30,440
Speaker 1: I'm saying, and like, what is the what are the

550
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 1: implications of that? What are the motivations behind making choices

551
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:40,399
Speaker 1: like that? You know, I think that media has an

552
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:47,520
Speaker 1: entertainment has kind of brainwash society into being really into

553
00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 1: and intrigued by, you know, the unhinged quote unquote woman.

554
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:57,680
Speaker 1: You know, there's something I think it's because, you know,

555
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:03,520
Speaker 1: societal norms tell us that women are hinged. We're not unhinged.

556
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:05,600
Speaker 1: We are as supposed to have it together and take

557
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:08,239
Speaker 1: care of the family and be the wives and the

558
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:12,840
Speaker 1: mothers and whatever, the homemakers. You know, obviously, this is

559
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:16,799
Speaker 1: a very antiquated view, but I'm just you know, as

560
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 1: like a blanket statement as far as like the way

561
00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:22,279
Speaker 1: society sees women. I mean, yeah, those are the expectations

562
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 1: society has for women. And Andy Wilkes understands that too

563
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:28,640
Speaker 1: and like leverages it against people, which I kind of

564
00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:34,000
Speaker 1: for sure, But I think that this movie definitely played

565
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:38,800
Speaker 1: to that. It played to the interest that society and

566
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:42,840
Speaker 1: consumers of entertainment are really that are really into the

567
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 1: like you said, the shock of like, oh this is

568
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 1: something different. This lady's unhinged, she's she's you know, she

569
00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:53,960
Speaker 1: doesn't have it together, and she's scary and creepy. And

570
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 1: also there's a thing about women being obsessive. There's a

571
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:03,040
Speaker 1: thing about that. I think that's that's a major theme

572
00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 1: in this film and in the book is it's it's obsession.

573
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:09,479
Speaker 1: And I think when we when we tend to see

574
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:14,400
Speaker 1: obsession in media and entertainment, it's typically the woman is

575
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:19,160
Speaker 1: obsessed with the man, like specifically obsession. I don't think

576
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:21,080
Speaker 1: you see us often the other way. You see it

577
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 1: very often with a woman being obsessed with a man

578
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 1: or a man's situation, or if there's a man who's

579
00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:31,319
Speaker 1: obsessed with a woman. We've talked like the stalker, like

580
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:34,160
Speaker 1: how men, especially in movies of this era, are like

581
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:38,480
Speaker 1: are often stalking the person that they want to be with.

582
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:40,640
Speaker 1: But it's not framed as a bad thing. It's a

583
00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:43,600
Speaker 1: framed as like he's going for it, he's gonna win

584
00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 1: her over. Yes, yes, that's what I mean. It's it's

585
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:50,920
Speaker 1: cloaked in a different way. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I

586
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:54,280
Speaker 1: was thinking about this as well. I think a good

587
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:57,680
Speaker 1: kind of like if I mean, I'm sure that there's

588
00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:01,440
Speaker 1: some crossover between our listener and her listeners as well.

589
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:04,800
Speaker 1: But friend of the cast Karina Longworth did a wonderful

590
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:09,160
Speaker 1: series on the erotic eighties. This is technically a nineties movie,

591
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:11,040
Speaker 1: but it feels like an eighties movie came up nine.

592
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 1: It's a cusp, but that sort of examines a lot

593
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:18,440
Speaker 1: of these issues and a lot of the cultural stuff

594
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:21,279
Speaker 1: because because yeah, this is like the Fatal Attraction era

595
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:24,960
Speaker 1: where it feels like there was this uptick in designing

596
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:29,319
Speaker 1: these female villains who are I feel like, in a

597
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:32,799
Speaker 1: lot of cases highly like reclaimable and have a lot

598
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:35,920
Speaker 1: of layers that you can go back and find amazing

599
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:38,759
Speaker 1: stuff in. But at the time, feel more like a

600
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:42,719
Speaker 1: cultural anxiety about women come to life, where you know,

601
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:45,120
Speaker 1: we talked about in our Fatal Attraction episode a couple

602
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:48,719
Speaker 1: of years ago how Glenn Close's character is like you

603
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:52,640
Speaker 1: can't have it all and like they're like and anxieties

604
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:55,880
Speaker 1: around women aging, which I think is also present in

605
00:37:56,320 --> 00:38:02,160
Speaker 1: Annie's character, and just any woman who is other by society, Um,

606
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:04,839
Speaker 1: whether it's by how she looks or how old she is,

607
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:07,440
Speaker 1: or like the fact that she doesn't have kids, whatever

608
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:11,040
Speaker 1: it is. Um, it feels like people are always, especially

609
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:14,720
Speaker 1: in this era, which I think is interesting, always looking

610
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:17,520
Speaker 1: to make that the most evil thing that's ever happened,

611
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:20,920
Speaker 1: and have it happened to such a nice guy? Uh,

612
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:24,560
Speaker 1: which is and I love. I kept writing down in

613
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:28,560
Speaker 1: my notes Paul as definitely not Stephen King's on a

614
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:33,160
Speaker 1: little trip, but I But culturally it makes me think

615
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:36,200
Speaker 1: about just when I was working on the Kathy podcast,

616
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:41,200
Speaker 1: just reading about women's media in the eighties in general

617
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:47,120
Speaker 1: skewed so far in this direction. It seems like, partially

618
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:50,360
Speaker 1: in response to um, you know, the seventies were a

619
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:54,200
Speaker 1: pretty progressive time with exceptions, but like a more progressive

620
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:58,319
Speaker 1: time for women and women's rights than really any other

621
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:00,960
Speaker 1: time up till that point. And then the eighties and

622
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:05,200
Speaker 1: early nineties were just a period of regression and fucking

623
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:10,719
Speaker 1: Reaganomics and just like completely trying to repackage the collective

624
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:14,800
Speaker 1: progress people had made and turn it into a consumer product.

625
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:17,680
Speaker 1: And it feels like these characters and these women are

626
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:19,879
Speaker 1: are a big part of that, of are a big

627
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:23,200
Speaker 1: part of like, oh, you think you wanted to like

628
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:25,640
Speaker 1: live on your own, you think you wanted to like

629
00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:28,360
Speaker 1: not live in this you know what is considered like

630
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:33,000
Speaker 1: this normal nuclear thing. Well guess what Annie Wilkes is

631
00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:35,719
Speaker 1: like that and she's a murderer or like, right, this

632
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:39,080
Speaker 1: is what happens to a liberated woman who you know,

633
00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:42,480
Speaker 1: lives on her own and doesn't have children, she'll become

634
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:45,920
Speaker 1: a murderer. Which I don't know if that like wholesale

635
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:48,439
Speaker 1: applies to this story, but it's like they're there. There's

636
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:52,480
Speaker 1: definitely Annie Wilks is like a part of Trent. But

637
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:54,120
Speaker 1: that's part of why I like this movie. It's like

638
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:57,480
Speaker 1: that reading is right there. And then or also if

639
00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:00,160
Speaker 1: you you know, happen to come across this interview that

640
00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:02,520
Speaker 1: Stephen King did in two thousand and six you can

641
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:06,520
Speaker 1: view the character in a completely different way because she's, uh,

642
00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:10,000
Speaker 1: you know, the addiction monster come to life. But also

643
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:12,360
Speaker 1: why do you make the creative choice to make the

644
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:16,919
Speaker 1: addiction monster of you know, a woman who is over forty? Like,

645
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 1: there's so many questions, right, there are certainly implications there. Yeah,

646
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:26,799
Speaker 1: I don't know. This is just like something that I

647
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:33,320
Speaker 1: find endlessly fascinating in terms of, like, we have certain

648
00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:38,359
Speaker 1: societal and cultural expectations of women too, yeah, to be

649
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:41,799
Speaker 1: the ones to like hold things together and you know,

650
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:46,000
Speaker 1: be domesticated and and and stuff like that. So to

651
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:49,919
Speaker 1: subvert that and in this version of the subvert this

652
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:56,760
Speaker 1: version of the subversion, what Kate swish Um, you have

653
00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:04,680
Speaker 1: completely quote unquote on ranged women who are obsessive and

654
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:10,080
Speaker 1: stalkers and you know, abductors and murderers. And not to

655
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:14,480
Speaker 1: say this never happens in real life, but it's also

656
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:17,920
Speaker 1: far less likely that it would be a woman than

657
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:21,160
Speaker 1: a man doing these things. So yeah, I just like,

658
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:26,440
Speaker 1: I still don't know quite how to process it. I

659
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:29,360
Speaker 1: don't know. I guess what I will because I also

660
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:33,640
Speaker 1: am actively having like which I feel like does speak

661
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 1: to how good the movie and ostensibly the book is that, like,

662
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:43,520
Speaker 1: it's not a very easily answered question where I guess

663
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:48,440
Speaker 1: that like Stephen King did pull from a real person

664
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:53,240
Speaker 1: to build out this character, a nurse who it sounds

665
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:56,720
Speaker 1: sort of adjacent to um munch hous since by proxy,

666
00:41:56,800 --> 00:42:00,600
Speaker 1: like she would make children sick and then vote unquote

667
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:03,800
Speaker 1: cure them but couldn't always cure them, and um, I

668
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:08,040
Speaker 1: was responsible for a number of children dying on her watch,

669
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:11,799
Speaker 1: and so like he's pulling from something it's like not

670
00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:14,960
Speaker 1: happening in a vacuum, which I feel like is helpful,

671
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:18,239
Speaker 1: but I don't know, like, yeah, there are just like

672
00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:23,280
Speaker 1: so many, so many reads of it, and well, okay,

673
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:25,080
Speaker 1: so if we're talking about Annie, I feel like it

674
00:42:25,239 --> 00:42:28,040
Speaker 1: is there are a lot of tropes that we're talking

675
00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:31,960
Speaker 1: about at play where I feel like her her body

676
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:36,200
Speaker 1: is not like directly commented on, but it feels like

677
00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:40,080
Speaker 1: the camera comments on her body a lot. It feels

678
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:44,759
Speaker 1: like the use of the pig is a bizarre roundabout

679
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:49,279
Speaker 1: like joke at her expense. And I was struggling with

680
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:51,600
Speaker 1: because it's like, this isn't something that the movie is

681
00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:53,839
Speaker 1: like outright telling you in a way that you might

682
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:56,560
Speaker 1: expect a movie of this era to do of just

683
00:42:56,680 --> 00:43:01,840
Speaker 1: like absolutely making a joke of a woman's body that

684
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:06,120
Speaker 1: isn't like rigidly thin, which did happen in the original

685
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:10,560
Speaker 1: reviews of this movie, Like Kathy Bates's body was commented

686
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:13,920
Speaker 1: on extensively and extremely rudely and I don't even want

687
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:18,360
Speaker 1: to quote it here. Not surprising, right, oh, like people

688
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:22,279
Speaker 1: had an issue with her body type. No, they just

689
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:25,520
Speaker 1: were like, you know, the way that the character was described,

690
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:29,360
Speaker 1: it was like leading with like a middle aged, overweight

691
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:32,880
Speaker 1: woman like that. I think a good comparison here is

692
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:36,919
Speaker 1: have you both seen ten Cloverfield Lane. Yeah. Yeah, it's

693
00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 1: like such a similar premise, but the it's a gender

694
00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:44,520
Speaker 1: swapped premise and from like thirty years later or whatever. Um.

695
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:48,200
Speaker 1: But John Goodman is trapping Mary Elizabeth Winstead in the

696
00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:51,600
Speaker 1: basement and she can't escape, and the twist is different,

697
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:54,000
Speaker 1: but it's like kind of a similar premise in that

698
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:57,200
Speaker 1: it's like a middle aged person who's not rigidly thin

699
00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:00,920
Speaker 1: is trapping someone in their house. But the reviews for

700
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:03,880
Speaker 1: ten Cloverfield Lane and the way that John Goodman's character

701
00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:08,240
Speaker 1: is talked about is very different than Annie Wilkes. I mean, granted,

702
00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:11,799
Speaker 1: that the plot goes in a different direction. But I it,

703
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:14,480
Speaker 1: I don't know. I was thinking a lot about ten

704
00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:17,520
Speaker 1: Cloverfield Lane when I was doing this watch right, But

705
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:20,960
Speaker 1: that's all. That's just very indicative of the way society

706
00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:25,840
Speaker 1: views women's bodies versus men's bodies, where like, if a

707
00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:29,640
Speaker 1: woman is a villain in a story, consumers of that

708
00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:34,920
Speaker 1: story will be like, yes, she's a villain because she's

709
00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:39,439
Speaker 1: like not traditionally beautiful, or like, you know, just any

710
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:42,799
Speaker 1: any number of awful comments like that. But I think

711
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:46,600
Speaker 1: it's it's not a coincidence that an actor like Kathy

712
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:50,680
Speaker 1: Bates was cast to play Annie, and considering the other

713
00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:56,160
Speaker 1: actors who were considered Angelica Houston and Bette Midler amazing actors,

714
00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:59,560
Speaker 1: extremely talented, but these are three women who are not

715
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:06,160
Speaker 1: it are like classically beautiful by Western beauty standards. So

716
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:10,200
Speaker 1: I think it's very deliberate that again, like someone like

717
00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:13,680
Speaker 1: Kathy Bates's cast to play Annie because yes, she she's

718
00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:16,880
Speaker 1: an older woman. Her body type is not a Victoria's

719
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:19,880
Speaker 1: secret model type. You know. It's the way that like

720
00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:24,320
Speaker 1: most famous, like a list actress, is your female actors

721
00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:27,799
Speaker 1: look a very certain way. Yeah, it feels like that's

722
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:31,680
Speaker 1: what they were trying to say, like this is what

723
00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:35,719
Speaker 1: unhinged looks like, Like this is this is what it

724
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:38,319
Speaker 1: looks like to us? Does it look like that to

725
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:42,920
Speaker 1: you audience? Like it almost is like subconsciously they're trying

726
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:45,279
Speaker 1: to convince us that like this is the way it

727
00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:49,239
Speaker 1: would look in reality, this is what this type of

728
00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:54,240
Speaker 1: captor would look like. This is what and um, again

729
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:57,759
Speaker 1: it's it's not really in your face, you know, it's

730
00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:01,400
Speaker 1: kind of like it's subtle in a way, but but

731
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:04,120
Speaker 1: I agree, I think it's it was it was still

732
00:46:04,239 --> 00:46:08,080
Speaker 1: very intentional and be able to decide what is it saying?

733
00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:10,799
Speaker 1: And is that okay? That that's what I'm saying. You know.

734
00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:13,839
Speaker 1: It feels like the subtext is like, how could this

735
00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:18,480
Speaker 1: woman possibly be happy, normal and well adjusted? Just like

736
00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:21,319
Speaker 1: of course she has you know, of course she has this.

737
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:25,719
Speaker 1: And at first, you know, her backstory, I thought just

738
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:28,880
Speaker 1: about the children at the hospital and her being a nurse,

739
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:32,279
Speaker 1: you know, kind of her past life. At first I

740
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:34,200
Speaker 1: looked at it as like, oh, that's really good, like

741
00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:40,120
Speaker 1: character development, backstory, Like that's really helpful and useful. But

742
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:43,239
Speaker 1: then when you think about it, it's also like what

743
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:46,239
Speaker 1: is that saying to Like, It's like her backstory is

744
00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:50,560
Speaker 1: kind of like did children have she someone who children

745
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:52,160
Speaker 1: had to die on her watch and she had to

746
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:54,520
Speaker 1: have this horrific backstory in order to be this person

747
00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:58,799
Speaker 1: who's now doing this. You know. Yeah, it's it just

748
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:03,200
Speaker 1: like introduces so many questions I do I appreciate. I

749
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:06,160
Speaker 1: just happened to watch Fatal Attraction the other night at

750
00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:11,520
Speaker 1: a hotel Uma having a normal one. Yeah, I was

751
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:17,880
Speaker 1: at a Laquinta. Uh yeah, yeah. It was a Continental

752
00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:23,160
Speaker 1: breakfast with the wet sausage that they serve at continental breakfasts. Um.

753
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:27,160
Speaker 1: But I was taking in Fatal Attraction, so it's fresh

754
00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:29,360
Speaker 1: in my mind as well. And I do feel like

755
00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:34,359
Speaker 1: you'd get more background about Annie Wilks than I expected.

756
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:36,880
Speaker 1: And I feel like you do get more background on

757
00:47:36,920 --> 00:47:40,800
Speaker 1: Annie Wilkes than you do for your average quote unquote

758
00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:44,480
Speaker 1: unhinged woman, which is good. And I would argue you

759
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:47,040
Speaker 1: get more background on Annie than you do on Paul

760
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:50,600
Speaker 1: really in terms of like what her history is and

761
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:54,400
Speaker 1: her history as uh, you know, horrific, but we know

762
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 1: about it and um, and that does help in a way.

763
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:01,359
Speaker 1: And I also a big thing unless I missed it,

764
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:05,319
Speaker 1: so correct me if I'm wrong. They do not attribute

765
00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:10,560
Speaker 1: a specific mental illness to Annie within the movie, Is

766
00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:14,480
Speaker 1: that right? Not that I've noticed now that also, I

767
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:16,800
Speaker 1: know we've talked about this abiliit tize, But that also

768
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:21,080
Speaker 1: I was relieved because I feel like often, I mean,

769
00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:24,120
Speaker 1: you could argue the opposite and say like, oh, you know,

770
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:29,640
Speaker 1: we're implying that women are you know, like fundamentally fucked up.

771
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:32,360
Speaker 1: But we have you know, we have Virginia, we have

772
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:34,680
Speaker 1: Lauren Bocall. We know that that's not the ethos of

773
00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:38,880
Speaker 1: this world. It's Annie specifically. Um. But I just always

774
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:42,040
Speaker 1: I feel like thrillers are so as a genre, are

775
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:46,880
Speaker 1: so guilty of perpetuating stereotypes about specific mental illnesses, and

776
00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:51,040
Speaker 1: it's always like, uh, you know, the beginning of Midsummer,

777
00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:57,160
Speaker 1: they're like, bipolar disease killed the family and ship like that.

778
00:48:57,280 --> 00:49:01,760
Speaker 1: I just always appreciate when there is a diabolical character

779
00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:06,319
Speaker 1: when a text does not attribute that to to a

780
00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:10,239
Speaker 1: mental illness, because it just like I always does so much.

781
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:14,479
Speaker 1: But I mean, people have certainly speculated around Annie Welkes's character,

782
00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:16,160
Speaker 1: but I don't think it's ever mentioned in the book

783
00:49:16,239 --> 00:49:19,239
Speaker 1: or the movie, it's just like, well, this is just

784
00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:22,839
Speaker 1: what she's like, this is just who she is. Yeah,

785
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:27,560
Speaker 1: because that always herself. That always ends up villainizing specific

786
00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:31,600
Speaker 1: mental illnesses, and I would argue just mental illness in general,

787
00:49:32,239 --> 00:49:34,560
Speaker 1: and um and then yeah, Like again, the way that

788
00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:40,680
Speaker 1: she is presented visually is the way that, like queer coding,

789
00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:45,520
Speaker 1: a villain demonizes queerness. I think that the way that

790
00:49:45,640 --> 00:49:48,200
Speaker 1: she's not even coded, just like the way that she

791
00:49:48,320 --> 00:49:54,759
Speaker 1: is presented visually, ends up villainizing a number of attributes

792
00:49:54,760 --> 00:49:56,520
Speaker 1: a person can have, as far as like age and

793
00:49:56,960 --> 00:50:01,359
Speaker 1: body type and things like the at And then there's

794
00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:05,200
Speaker 1: there are parts where she's like, oh, Paul, I love

795
00:50:05,239 --> 00:50:07,799
Speaker 1: you and you're perfect and you're so brilliant, but you

796
00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:11,759
Speaker 1: would never love someone like me. She says something like well,

797
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:14,080
Speaker 1: I'm you know, I'm a I'm a nobody, you know,

798
00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:16,120
Speaker 1: I'm not this like famous writer like you. But I

799
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:19,200
Speaker 1: think that there's also subtext there where it's like, well,

800
00:50:19,560 --> 00:50:22,520
Speaker 1: you know, I'm not this young, beautiful, you know, traditionally

801
00:50:22,520 --> 00:50:28,120
Speaker 1: beautiful woman. Yeah, she's very insecure. She's very insecure as

802
00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:29,799
Speaker 1: it pertains to a lot of areas in her life.

803
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:33,719
Speaker 1: I think especially to her her looks and how she

804
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:36,960
Speaker 1: comes off, and you know, she's very in her head

805
00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:40,040
Speaker 1: about all of it and that and that is ultimately

806
00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:44,560
Speaker 1: what Paul Sheldon is able to kind of use in

807
00:50:44,719 --> 00:50:49,280
Speaker 1: order to get his way and trying to escape the situation.

808
00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:51,719
Speaker 1: He plays on that. It's like, okay, she surest I'm

809
00:50:51,719 --> 00:50:53,920
Speaker 1: going to play into No, you are beautiful, No, I

810
00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:57,200
Speaker 1: do love you know this, this paper is great. Of course,

811
00:50:57,239 --> 00:50:59,319
Speaker 1: I'm grateful for everything you've done for me. Like he

812
00:50:59,360 --> 00:51:03,440
Speaker 1: plays in to boosting her self esteem and her self

813
00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:07,160
Speaker 1: confidence in order to get what he wants, which also

814
00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:11,800
Speaker 1: feels like kind of a gendered thing to me. Yeah,

815
00:51:11,880 --> 00:51:14,120
Speaker 1: the way that, like, I don't know, like a lot

816
00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:18,600
Speaker 1: of women are characterized in movies where they just like

817
00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:23,280
Speaker 1: need a lot of like emotional reassurance and because women

818
00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:27,719
Speaker 1: are so emotional and you know, I don't know, I

819
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:30,440
Speaker 1: don't know if I'm articulating that well, but no, I

820
00:51:30,440 --> 00:51:32,600
Speaker 1: see what you mean. I mean, it's like again, it's

821
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:35,200
Speaker 1: I think this movie's strength and what makes it like

822
00:51:35,239 --> 00:51:37,680
Speaker 1: a little challenging to have a discussion about is like

823
00:51:37,719 --> 00:51:41,359
Speaker 1: there's so many different ways to read it where I think, like,

824
00:51:41,520 --> 00:51:45,239
Speaker 1: for sure he's playing on her insecurities and and like

825
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:49,440
Speaker 1: you're just kind of getting at of like how how

826
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:54,359
Speaker 1: it like Annie is a very smart character. She like

827
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:59,600
Speaker 1: catches him at every turn, and my penguin always faces

828
00:51:59,680 --> 00:52:05,360
Speaker 1: do souths first of all, a woman knowing her cardinal directions,

829
00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:11,480
Speaker 1: that's feminism, that's final way of feminism. Which way is

830
00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:15,319
Speaker 1: the penguin facing? So like, but she she catches him

831
00:52:15,440 --> 00:52:19,319
Speaker 1: and all this ship, she's very observant, like there he

832
00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:23,520
Speaker 1: should not survive this ordeal, right, but except for when

833
00:52:23,560 --> 00:52:28,839
Speaker 1: he is manipulating her insecurities about herself and manipulating her

834
00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:32,360
Speaker 1: crush on him and her obsessive nature around him. And

835
00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:34,919
Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, it's like logic goes out

836
00:52:34,960 --> 00:52:38,000
Speaker 1: the window and she is not this hyper observant character

837
00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:40,200
Speaker 1: that we know she is. And that does feel a

838
00:52:40,239 --> 00:52:42,920
Speaker 1: little pointed um. But and you can come at that

839
00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:46,080
Speaker 1: from the super fan perspective where I kept trying to

840
00:52:46,160 --> 00:52:47,880
Speaker 1: like flip it in my mind for him, like I

841
00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:52,279
Speaker 1: guess like there is a fun I don't know, Like

842
00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:53,600
Speaker 1: when I was watching it, I was like, oh, what

843
00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:56,560
Speaker 1: if this happened to like someone writing an m c

844
00:52:56,800 --> 00:52:59,759
Speaker 1: U movie and they were just kidnapped by one of

845
00:52:59,760 --> 00:53:03,960
Speaker 1: those guys on Twitter. You mean a misery cinematic universe. Yeah, yeah,

846
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:06,359
Speaker 1: and the misery cinematic universe. So but like what if

847
00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:11,160
Speaker 1: Jeff Loveness was it was kidnapped by and by someone

848
00:53:11,200 --> 00:53:13,799
Speaker 1: on Twitter, and like how would that play out? And

849
00:53:13,960 --> 00:53:17,360
Speaker 1: but but which uh? And that mental exercise confirmed to

850
00:53:17,360 --> 00:53:20,440
Speaker 1: me that it is kind of a gendered dynamic between

851
00:53:20,440 --> 00:53:22,799
Speaker 1: the two of them that, like, you know, when she

852
00:53:23,040 --> 00:53:27,440
Speaker 1: because we are conditioned to believe that this character is

853
00:53:27,480 --> 00:53:31,120
Speaker 1: not going to be loved in the way she wants.

854
00:53:31,600 --> 00:53:34,480
Speaker 1: When she receives that kind of attention, everything we know

855
00:53:34,520 --> 00:53:39,279
Speaker 1: about her goes out the window because she is receiving affection.

856
00:53:40,360 --> 00:53:44,320
Speaker 1: There's also like there are certain aspects of her character

857
00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:48,560
Speaker 1: that and let me know if I'm way off here,

858
00:53:48,600 --> 00:53:50,640
Speaker 1: but there there are things that like, you know, she

859
00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:54,279
Speaker 1: lives on a farm, She's surrounded by farm animals. She

860
00:53:54,440 --> 00:53:56,920
Speaker 1: drives like I want to say, like a jeep Cherokee,

861
00:53:57,520 --> 00:53:59,640
Speaker 1: like the and like the way the way she dresses

862
00:53:59,719 --> 00:54:02,560
Speaker 1: is like all this sort of masculine. There's certain things

863
00:54:02,600 --> 00:54:04,799
Speaker 1: about her character that are more kind of markers of

864
00:54:04,840 --> 00:54:09,600
Speaker 1: traditional masculinity. There are implications there where it's like, oh,

865
00:54:09,760 --> 00:54:12,759
Speaker 1: any any woman who kind of presents in a more

866
00:54:12,880 --> 00:54:16,759
Speaker 1: masculine way something's wrong with her that also ends up

867
00:54:16,760 --> 00:54:21,120
Speaker 1: getting demonized by by this movie. But then also she

868
00:54:21,280 --> 00:54:23,759
Speaker 1: is kind of like beloved in her community because so

869
00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:26,000
Speaker 1: that's like the other side of it is like she

870
00:54:26,160 --> 00:54:29,319
Speaker 1: plays on this is something I really like, is like

871
00:54:29,400 --> 00:54:34,520
Speaker 1: she plays on people's expectations about her constantly in order

872
00:54:34,560 --> 00:54:37,279
Speaker 1: to be like, I don't know, I just have been

873
00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:39,320
Speaker 1: in the middle of reading a book about female serial

874
00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:44,000
Speaker 1: killers and uh just having a normal week everyone um

875
00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:51,400
Speaker 1: staying in a laquintation. Look, I have no plans to

876
00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:56,759
Speaker 1: do anything. I'm not plotting. But but a common like

877
00:54:57,120 --> 00:55:01,640
Speaker 1: thing that specifically women who killed do is like play

878
00:55:01,680 --> 00:55:05,560
Speaker 1: on people's expectations of them of like, oh, I'm you

879
00:55:05,560 --> 00:55:08,239
Speaker 1: know me, I'm I'm just uh you know, I'm a

880
00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:11,319
Speaker 1: middle aged lady. I raised pigs on a farm. What

881
00:55:11,360 --> 00:55:17,040
Speaker 1: do you mean, right, which her community buys completely even

882
00:55:17,080 --> 00:55:20,759
Speaker 1: though she's a well documented murderer. Every everyone has a

883
00:55:20,760 --> 00:55:24,160
Speaker 1: scrap book full of her murders. Um, So it isn't

884
00:55:24,200 --> 00:55:27,920
Speaker 1: until busters like wait a second, isn't that the murder

885
00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:32,719
Speaker 1: lady like that? That that it comes up Like so

886
00:55:32,760 --> 00:55:35,160
Speaker 1: she does she like plays this whole community based on

887
00:55:35,920 --> 00:55:39,800
Speaker 1: society's like go to of underestimating what she could possibly

888
00:55:39,800 --> 00:55:43,600
Speaker 1: be capable of, positive or negative. And she even like

889
00:55:43,719 --> 00:55:47,799
Speaker 1: she even gets Paul at the beginning where she like

890
00:55:48,160 --> 00:55:50,279
Speaker 1: is she's got him in a bed. She says, you know,

891
00:55:50,320 --> 00:55:53,160
Speaker 1: I'm a nurse, and he believed I mean, and she

892
00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:55,640
Speaker 1: I guess she is technically a nurse. She's a bad one,

893
00:55:56,040 --> 00:55:59,759
Speaker 1: but but like he is her job, but he buys it.

894
00:55:59,800 --> 00:56:02,720
Speaker 1: He buys that, like, oh, she's just like this nice lady.

895
00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:05,440
Speaker 1: She's going to take care of me, because that is

896
00:56:05,480 --> 00:56:07,640
Speaker 1: like what you would be conditioned to believe she's going

897
00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:10,120
Speaker 1: to take care of me. Um, there's no reason to

898
00:56:10,200 --> 00:56:14,000
Speaker 1: mistrust her, right right, I have to look up this. Okay,

899
00:56:14,040 --> 00:56:17,480
Speaker 1: So the female not to give up female serial killer

900
00:56:17,560 --> 00:56:20,680
Speaker 1: a shout out, but it reminded me a lot of

901
00:56:20,840 --> 00:56:24,120
Speaker 1: the same kind of the book calls her the giggling

902
00:56:24,200 --> 00:56:28,759
Speaker 1: grandma Nanny Doss. But the deal with Nanny Doss, she

903
00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:31,720
Speaker 1: was in them. She was kind of like the first

904
00:56:32,239 --> 00:56:34,359
Speaker 1: like the first woman serial killer to be like on

905
00:56:34,480 --> 00:56:38,120
Speaker 1: TV in the nineteen fifties. Um, but she was a

906
00:56:38,400 --> 00:56:41,279
Speaker 1: middle aged too slightly over middle aged woman who had

907
00:56:41,360 --> 00:56:43,960
Speaker 1: killed four or five of her husband's in a row,

908
00:56:44,760 --> 00:56:47,320
Speaker 1: but she presented as like, I'm just a sweet lady,

909
00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:50,480
Speaker 1: what do you mean, And like she was received in

910
00:56:50,520 --> 00:56:52,680
Speaker 1: the press like she's not really very well remembered. I

911
00:56:52,680 --> 00:56:56,160
Speaker 1: didn't know she existed, but like she's just presented as

912
00:56:56,239 --> 00:56:58,840
Speaker 1: kind of like a joke. Even on TV. She's committed

913
00:56:58,880 --> 00:57:02,120
Speaker 1: five murders and everyone's like, look at this grandma who

914
00:57:02,200 --> 00:57:06,640
Speaker 1: can't stop poisoning her husband, and you're like, this is horrible, right,

915
00:57:06,719 --> 00:57:10,400
Speaker 1: But it's like, but she built this whole media image

916
00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:13,960
Speaker 1: of herself based on people's you know, assumptions to underestimate her.

917
00:57:13,960 --> 00:57:16,640
Speaker 1: And even when she was like outed as a outed

918
00:57:16,720 --> 00:57:18,800
Speaker 1: as a murderer. I don't know if that's the right passing,

919
00:57:19,120 --> 00:57:21,120
Speaker 1: But even when she was like, you know, found to

920
00:57:21,160 --> 00:57:23,560
Speaker 1: be a murderer of a ton of people, people were

921
00:57:23,600 --> 00:57:26,520
Speaker 1: still kind of like, ha, ha, isn't this like weird

922
00:57:26,600 --> 00:57:28,800
Speaker 1: and gross that this older woman is doing this? And

923
00:57:28,800 --> 00:57:31,960
Speaker 1: you're like, it's kind of gross that anyone's doing the

924
00:57:32,120 --> 00:57:38,480
Speaker 1: fire Maybe not good day. So there the way that

925
00:57:38,560 --> 00:57:44,120
Speaker 1: like society tends to de sexualize mother's, like oh, you

926
00:57:44,120 --> 00:57:47,640
Speaker 1: know a woman who is like who is like raising

927
00:57:47,680 --> 00:57:51,120
Speaker 1: a family and like raising children and and again like

928
00:57:51,160 --> 00:57:55,640
Speaker 1: aging women. It feels to me like those sort of

929
00:57:55,680 --> 00:57:59,160
Speaker 1: like stereotypes of what we expect like a mother to

930
00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:04,920
Speaker 1: look like are given to Annie, and that makes her

931
00:58:05,360 --> 00:58:08,080
Speaker 1: less threatening at first, That makes her seem like a

932
00:58:08,200 --> 00:58:12,160
Speaker 1: not formidable opponent. You know. That's why James Conn you know,

933
00:58:12,360 --> 00:58:15,000
Speaker 1: Paul at the beginning is like, Oh, I am in

934
00:58:15,160 --> 00:58:19,240
Speaker 1: good hands, Like she's a nurse. She's this like middle

935
00:58:19,240 --> 00:58:22,680
Speaker 1: aged woman who seems like she's taking care of me.

936
00:58:22,720 --> 00:58:26,680
Speaker 1: She puts splints on my Also, the like prosthetics that

937
00:58:26,760 --> 00:58:30,840
Speaker 1: they put on his legs to make his legs look

938
00:58:30,840 --> 00:58:34,880
Speaker 1: like broken and bruise and everything like that are so icky. Um,

939
00:58:36,120 --> 00:58:40,880
Speaker 1: but yeah, like he has no reason not to trust

940
00:58:40,960 --> 00:58:44,160
Speaker 1: her at first, based solely on just kind of like

941
00:58:44,680 --> 00:58:50,320
Speaker 1: societal expectations of women in kind of caregiver roles that

942
00:58:50,360 --> 00:58:54,560
Speaker 1: we perceive to be as like very unthreatening because of

943
00:58:54,600 --> 00:58:58,439
Speaker 1: like gender norms and these societal expectations. So I still

944
00:58:58,440 --> 00:59:01,080
Speaker 1: don't know what to make of the from a like

945
00:59:01,280 --> 00:59:04,160
Speaker 1: narrative point of view and from like a feminist point

946
00:59:04,200 --> 00:59:07,160
Speaker 1: of view, but it's interesting. I feel like there's a

947
00:59:07,200 --> 00:59:08,880
Speaker 1: lot of ways to come at it because it's like

948
00:59:09,080 --> 00:59:10,840
Speaker 1: they're also I was like, I you know, I was

949
00:59:10,880 --> 00:59:14,680
Speaker 1: like I had to admit to myself obviously you know,

950
00:59:15,160 --> 00:59:20,160
Speaker 1: anti murder, but brave, brave of you, thank you so much.

951
00:59:21,480 --> 00:59:24,200
Speaker 1: But in the world of this movie, like it is

952
00:59:24,280 --> 00:59:28,200
Speaker 1: a little bit cathartic to just like as an idea

953
00:59:28,520 --> 00:59:31,440
Speaker 1: to have this woman who is like That's why I

954
00:59:31,480 --> 00:59:33,120
Speaker 1: really liked the speech where she's like, I know you

955
00:59:33,120 --> 00:59:35,760
Speaker 1: don't love me, Like, don't bullshit me. I know that

956
00:59:35,840 --> 00:59:38,560
Speaker 1: you're like lying to me. I know that you go

957
00:59:38,720 --> 00:59:42,080
Speaker 1: for these you know, like Hollywood type girls or whatever

958
00:59:42,120 --> 00:59:46,160
Speaker 1: it is she says. And then to see someone clearly

959
00:59:46,280 --> 00:59:49,240
Speaker 1: articulate that of like you're full of ship and then

960
00:59:49,640 --> 00:59:54,160
Speaker 1: break their ankles, that's, uh, you know, feminist, Like is

961
00:59:54,160 --> 00:59:58,160
Speaker 1: that a hashtag feminist win? I don't know, but like

962
00:59:58,240 --> 01:00:01,440
Speaker 1: seeing that as because you can look at that interaction

963
01:00:01,480 --> 01:00:04,440
Speaker 1: as like, oh, she is the unhinged woman, and like

964
01:00:04,640 --> 01:00:07,600
Speaker 1: it's implied that a woman who looks like her and

965
01:00:07,640 --> 01:00:10,240
Speaker 1: as her age could not possibly be loved, or you

966
01:00:10,280 --> 01:00:12,920
Speaker 1: can look at it as like here's a woman who

967
01:00:12,920 --> 01:00:15,760
Speaker 1: has been told her whole life because of how she

968
01:00:15,800 --> 01:00:18,800
Speaker 1: looks that she is not going to have the life

969
01:00:18,840 --> 01:00:21,520
Speaker 1: that she wants because of her gender and because of

970
01:00:21,520 --> 01:00:24,120
Speaker 1: how she looks and as she ages because of her age,

971
01:00:24,600 --> 01:00:28,760
Speaker 1: and like just taking out that frustration on someone who's

972
01:00:28,840 --> 01:00:32,040
Speaker 1: full of shit, and like that's also really fun. I

973
01:00:32,040 --> 01:00:36,600
Speaker 1: don't know. I have a quote from Stephen King um

974
01:00:36,640 --> 01:00:39,960
Speaker 1: and he's using I mean, we are it's hard, especially

975
01:00:40,000 --> 01:00:42,880
Speaker 1: when you're reading stuff about this movie too. We want

976
01:00:42,880 --> 01:00:46,600
Speaker 1: to be mindful about um language around mental health. So

977
01:00:46,720 --> 01:00:50,640
Speaker 1: I'm quoting Stephen king here, but he's he says that

978
01:00:50,720 --> 01:00:55,000
Speaker 1: Annie quote may seem psychopathic to us, but it's important

979
01:00:55,080 --> 01:00:58,280
Speaker 1: to remember that she seems perfectly sane and reasonable to herself,

980
01:00:58,520 --> 01:01:01,120
Speaker 1: heroic in fact, a beleaguer women trying to suffer in

981
01:01:01,160 --> 01:01:03,640
Speaker 1: a hostile or is trying to survive in a hostile

982
01:01:03,680 --> 01:01:08,040
Speaker 1: world full of cocka duty brats unquote cock Wait what

983
01:01:08,080 --> 01:01:10,840
Speaker 1: did he say? Cocka duty? Cocka duty. I think he's

984
01:01:10,880 --> 01:01:15,080
Speaker 1: just like quoting how Annie talks, of course, how she

985
01:01:15,200 --> 01:01:19,320
Speaker 1: like uses all these weird I don't think Stephen King

986
01:01:19,360 --> 01:01:22,560
Speaker 1: minds swearing. I did really laugh at the part where

987
01:01:22,960 --> 01:01:25,880
Speaker 1: Annie gives him the typewriter for the first time and

988
01:01:25,920 --> 01:01:28,960
Speaker 1: she's like, fix your book and he just types fuck

989
01:01:29,040 --> 01:01:33,640
Speaker 1: over and over and over. I was like, yeah, been there,

990
01:01:37,160 --> 01:01:39,760
Speaker 1: which feels like I was like, god, yeah, Stephen King

991
01:01:39,800 --> 01:01:43,200
Speaker 1: loves uh. Every time I worry, I'm like, oh am,

992
01:01:43,200 --> 01:01:45,800
Speaker 1: I writing myself too much into this. And then you're like, well,

993
01:01:46,600 --> 01:01:49,160
Speaker 1: so many Steven, like every Stephen King, not every, but

994
01:01:49,240 --> 01:01:51,919
Speaker 1: a lot of them have like I'm a writer and

995
01:01:52,160 --> 01:01:56,680
Speaker 1: writing is hard, Like that's the Shining and Misery. Well,

996
01:01:56,720 --> 01:01:59,040
Speaker 1: speaking of the Shining, I think we'd be having a

997
01:01:59,040 --> 01:02:04,520
Speaker 1: different conversation if every single one of Stephen King's books

998
01:02:04,520 --> 01:02:08,120
Speaker 1: and like movie adaptations followed this formula of like unhinged

999
01:02:08,200 --> 01:02:12,240
Speaker 1: woman ab ducts man and is scary, and all women

1000
01:02:12,240 --> 01:02:16,440
Speaker 1: are scary and murderers. But something like The Shining, which

1001
01:02:16,480 --> 01:02:20,120
Speaker 1: we covered again a few years ago, is about a

1002
01:02:20,160 --> 01:02:24,040
Speaker 1: writer who is a man. He's the one who becomes

1003
01:02:24,040 --> 01:02:31,200
Speaker 1: increasingly more unstable and scary and abusive and murdery and

1004
01:02:31,680 --> 01:02:36,360
Speaker 1: his wife, his wife is the victim here and like

1005
01:02:36,440 --> 01:02:39,760
Speaker 1: so where you're rooting for her and she's she's the

1006
01:02:39,840 --> 01:02:42,880
Speaker 1: character in that story who you know, we're like rooting

1007
01:02:42,880 --> 01:02:45,959
Speaker 1: for her survival and to escape this very abusive man.

1008
01:02:46,160 --> 01:02:52,600
Speaker 1: So there's enough, you know, like variety in Stephen King's

1009
01:02:52,600 --> 01:02:56,240
Speaker 1: work that this just seems like an example of, oh, well,

1010
01:02:56,680 --> 01:03:01,280
Speaker 1: sometimes there are scary women. This is just a story

1011
01:03:01,360 --> 01:03:06,800
Speaker 1: about one of them, and I'll shoehorn another podcast recommendation

1012
01:03:07,080 --> 01:03:10,920
Speaker 1: in here You're wrong about just in an episode where

1013
01:03:11,280 --> 01:03:14,000
Speaker 1: Sarah Marshall, friend of the cast, is talking about UM

1014
01:03:14,520 --> 01:03:18,280
Speaker 1: serial killers and how serial killers are sort of characterized

1015
01:03:18,680 --> 01:03:22,520
Speaker 1: by gender or or race or by does any attribute

1016
01:03:22,520 --> 01:03:25,920
Speaker 1: they have, and how the white male serial killer UM,

1017
01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:29,800
Speaker 1: while historically the most incompetent of them all, UM, like

1018
01:03:29,840 --> 01:03:33,600
Speaker 1: even in serial killing UM, it's still very much like

1019
01:03:33,680 --> 01:03:36,520
Speaker 1: there's a fucking Jeffrey Dahmers series that just came out,

1020
01:03:36,600 --> 01:03:40,760
Speaker 1: Like there's it's still the white male serial killer. And

1021
01:03:40,800 --> 01:03:43,160
Speaker 1: that is too. I feel like I'm sounding very scary.

1022
01:03:43,200 --> 01:03:45,480
Speaker 1: I was with Sarah and she gave me the book

1023
01:03:45,520 --> 01:03:47,920
Speaker 1: about serial killers and we watched Fatal Attracted together. It

1024
01:03:48,000 --> 01:03:51,560
Speaker 1: was all for her, Jamie shure sounds like a cover up.

1025
01:03:51,680 --> 01:03:54,400
Speaker 1: I'm not going to kill anybody. I swear we were

1026
01:03:54,440 --> 01:03:58,440
Speaker 1: at the Lakiza together. Definitely not dismembering a body. Also,

1027
01:03:58,560 --> 01:04:01,960
Speaker 1: I left this out of the recap, but there's what

1028
01:04:02,000 --> 01:04:04,560
Speaker 1: I felt was like a very clever thing for Annie

1029
01:04:04,600 --> 01:04:08,919
Speaker 1: to do when when Sheriff Buster comes over to look

1030
01:04:08,960 --> 01:04:13,680
Speaker 1: around her house. She fabricates the story of like, oh, yes,

1031
01:04:13,760 --> 01:04:18,080
Speaker 1: I am such a huge fan of Paul Sheldon, and I,

1032
01:04:18,520 --> 01:04:21,800
Speaker 1: you know, I received this message from God that I

1033
01:04:22,040 --> 01:04:25,280
Speaker 1: should carry on his work now that he is presumed dead.

1034
01:04:25,720 --> 01:04:29,760
Speaker 1: And that's why I have this typewriter and this Paul

1035
01:04:29,800 --> 01:04:32,959
Speaker 1: Sheldon manuscript because I wrote it, you know, Like she's

1036
01:04:33,000 --> 01:04:38,280
Speaker 1: like diabolical, but like the way she covers her tracks

1037
01:04:38,440 --> 01:04:39,880
Speaker 1: is like, I don't know, I just thought that was

1038
01:04:39,960 --> 01:04:42,160
Speaker 1: very clever. And so she is a very like we said,

1039
01:04:42,200 --> 01:04:46,080
Speaker 1: she's a very smart character. She's not incompetent. She just

1040
01:04:46,440 --> 01:04:49,600
Speaker 1: does get and she had a good strategy. Like the

1041
01:04:49,680 --> 01:04:54,640
Speaker 1: strategy was actually pretty solid. Yeah, she and she kept

1042
01:04:54,720 --> 01:04:56,959
Speaker 1: him there. How long was he there? I would guess

1043
01:04:57,000 --> 01:04:59,880
Speaker 1: at least a month, Like it's what do you mean

1044
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:03,760
Speaker 1: know the exact time, Like how long he's I don't think,

1045
01:05:03,800 --> 01:05:05,560
Speaker 1: so it seems like a while because they had to

1046
01:05:05,600 --> 01:05:08,880
Speaker 1: do some like montages of like he writes a book.

1047
01:05:08,960 --> 01:05:11,080
Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, I think it's more than a month.

1048
01:05:11,120 --> 01:05:13,040
Speaker 1: I don't know how. I don't think it's like six months,

1049
01:05:13,080 --> 01:05:16,080
Speaker 1: but I think it's a little bit. It's a couple

1050
01:05:16,080 --> 01:05:20,680
Speaker 1: of months, three months, Yeah, because his legs also like hell,

1051
01:05:20,680 --> 01:05:25,680
Speaker 1: and yeah, he has time to write manuscript. She's so

1052
01:05:25,760 --> 01:05:28,800
Speaker 1: I mean, it's like she's so good that it's just

1053
01:05:28,880 --> 01:05:32,680
Speaker 1: like wild that in the world. It doesn't feel unrealistic

1054
01:05:32,960 --> 01:05:38,480
Speaker 1: somehow that like Buster enters the house knowing she's a murderer,

1055
01:05:38,720 --> 01:05:41,560
Speaker 1: and she's still is able to charm him hard enough

1056
01:05:41,680 --> 01:05:44,520
Speaker 1: that he's about to leave the house. Like if if

1057
01:05:44,680 --> 01:05:47,240
Speaker 1: if James conn hadn't made noise from the basement, he

1058
01:05:47,280 --> 01:05:50,760
Speaker 1: would have left. It's just like she's she's good at

1059
01:05:50,800 --> 01:05:53,720
Speaker 1: what she does. She's smart. I also wanted to I

1060
01:05:54,240 --> 01:05:56,600
Speaker 1: agree with that you say what you're saying, Caitlin about

1061
01:05:56,720 --> 01:05:59,320
Speaker 1: Stephen King's um, you know, just like right and kind

1062
01:05:59,360 --> 01:06:04,120
Speaker 1: of just like a y variety of killers and crime doers.

1063
01:06:04,280 --> 01:06:07,280
Speaker 1: He certainly has stuff that it is not relevant to

1064
01:06:07,280 --> 01:06:10,720
Speaker 1: this discussion about another time. But also, I mean, this

1065
01:06:10,800 --> 01:06:14,200
Speaker 1: is the production of this movie. It's white guys up

1066
01:06:14,200 --> 01:06:19,920
Speaker 1: and down. However, however, it is like at least you know,

1067
01:06:20,040 --> 01:06:23,600
Speaker 1: you like you're saying, Stephen king Um does write a

1068
01:06:23,640 --> 01:06:27,120
Speaker 1: wide variety of women in a wide variety of villains.

1069
01:06:27,640 --> 01:06:29,840
Speaker 1: And I feel like Rob Reiner and William Goldman also

1070
01:06:29,880 --> 01:06:33,120
Speaker 1: have a pretty good track record with um you know,

1071
01:06:33,320 --> 01:06:37,280
Speaker 1: not being shy about like centering women in their work

1072
01:06:37,360 --> 01:06:41,480
Speaker 1: and not being like known as like hyper masculine UM

1073
01:06:41,520 --> 01:06:45,440
Speaker 1: writer directors. It feels like, you know, if if it's

1074
01:06:45,640 --> 01:06:50,120
Speaker 1: gotta be the three straight white guys, and according to Hollywood,

1075
01:06:50,240 --> 01:06:53,880
Speaker 1: it did, always does, especially when it's Yeah, and I

1076
01:06:53,920 --> 01:06:56,040
Speaker 1: think it's good to note too that, like, you know,

1077
01:06:56,280 --> 01:07:01,440
Speaker 1: I see Misery as being a film with a female lead,

1078
01:07:01,920 --> 01:07:07,640
Speaker 1: a strong female lead, and even Misery is is a

1079
01:07:07,720 --> 01:07:11,959
Speaker 1: woman and she's the hero of that series. Yeah, So

1080
01:07:12,040 --> 01:07:15,440
Speaker 1: to me, it's like it's it's strong female leads in

1081
01:07:15,480 --> 01:07:20,880
Speaker 1: the book and in the film. That's right. Exploring the

1082
01:07:20,880 --> 01:07:23,240
Speaker 1: book that Paul Sheldon wrote Boss this is based on

1083
01:07:23,240 --> 01:07:26,919
Speaker 1: a book that Stephen King. It's all very confusing, but

1084
01:07:27,040 --> 01:07:30,760
Speaker 1: it's female leads for sure. I would read those books. Yeah.

1085
01:07:30,800 --> 01:07:33,040
Speaker 1: I was like, I wish someone I wonder if that

1086
01:07:33,080 --> 01:07:35,920
Speaker 1: ever happened. You know, sometimes they're like, oh, this fake book,

1087
01:07:36,240 --> 01:07:39,520
Speaker 1: and then someone actually writes it. Oh yeah, read the

1088
01:07:39,560 --> 01:07:41,680
Speaker 1: Misery books. She sounds like a badass at the end

1089
01:07:41,840 --> 01:07:45,200
Speaker 1: she does. I think that's great. That's the Misery Like

1090
01:07:45,320 --> 01:07:50,400
Speaker 1: cinematic universe that we need. Yeah, And controversially, I liked

1091
01:07:50,560 --> 01:07:54,360
Speaker 1: Annie's punch up of the Misery, not saying it was

1092
01:07:54,400 --> 01:07:57,000
Speaker 1: all worth it, but I'm saying I liked her. I

1093
01:07:57,040 --> 01:07:59,960
Speaker 1: liked her version. She had some good, good notes she did,

1094
01:08:00,400 --> 01:08:02,760
Speaker 1: she had some ideas she was I loved off the

1095
01:08:03,480 --> 01:08:06,720
Speaker 1: Cathy Bates delivery of Like I knew Missery was a

1096
01:08:06,720 --> 01:08:11,160
Speaker 1: member of nobility, and you're just like yeah. Also the

1097
01:08:11,200 --> 01:08:14,720
Speaker 1: way that you know, audiences remember horror movies for their

1098
01:08:14,800 --> 01:08:19,719
Speaker 1: villains way more than their protagonists, who are like the

1099
01:08:19,800 --> 01:08:24,439
Speaker 1: victims of the villains. And while you know, like Paul

1100
01:08:24,840 --> 01:08:28,559
Speaker 1: is like just as resourceful as Annie, and you know

1101
01:08:28,600 --> 01:08:31,320
Speaker 1: he's got the Bobby pin, he like stockpiles the drug,

1102
01:08:31,520 --> 01:08:34,559
Speaker 1: the medicine. He you know, is able to procure a

1103
01:08:34,600 --> 01:08:38,280
Speaker 1: knife at some point. He's also smart and resourceful. But

1104
01:08:38,400 --> 01:08:41,799
Speaker 1: we remember Misery for the Kathy Bates character. We remember

1105
01:08:41,800 --> 01:08:46,080
Speaker 1: it for Annie and her taking a sledgehammer to his ankles. Uh,

1106
01:08:46,280 --> 01:08:49,920
Speaker 1: far more, I think, at least than anyone remembers like

1107
01:08:50,280 --> 01:08:54,840
Speaker 1: James Cohn's character. Definitely, So yeah, it's her movie, And

1108
01:08:55,040 --> 01:08:59,200
Speaker 1: just another shout out to Cathy Bates. Cathy Bates, She's amazing,

1109
01:08:59,320 --> 01:09:02,559
Speaker 1: an icon is amazing. And you know, they talk about

1110
01:09:02,560 --> 01:09:06,840
Speaker 1: her being basically, you know, quote unquote undiscovered at that time,

1111
01:09:06,920 --> 01:09:11,599
Speaker 1: like she was, you know, she wasn't a name per se,

1112
01:09:11,760 --> 01:09:14,240
Speaker 1: which is so wild. All you need is the chance,

1113
01:09:14,400 --> 01:09:16,360
Speaker 1: you know, That's all you need. And I think this

1114
01:09:16,439 --> 01:09:19,400
Speaker 1: is a great example of that. And she delivered. Oh yeah,

1115
01:09:19,680 --> 01:09:22,200
Speaker 1: holy sh it did she? Uh? And and then she

1116
01:09:22,479 --> 01:09:25,160
Speaker 1: won an odd like Oscar for her first like big

1117
01:09:25,200 --> 01:09:30,960
Speaker 1: Hollywood role. It's yeah, it's She's awesome, wonderful. Yeah. Is

1118
01:09:30,960 --> 01:09:35,000
Speaker 1: there anything else anyone wants to talk about? Um? I

1119
01:09:35,040 --> 01:09:36,679
Speaker 1: don't think so. I mean, as far as the other

1120
01:09:37,160 --> 01:09:40,320
Speaker 1: women in the movie, you know, I like that there

1121
01:09:40,320 --> 01:09:43,040
Speaker 1: are women in roles. This is like a super super

1122
01:09:43,040 --> 01:09:48,280
Speaker 1: white movie, which it doesn't have to be. Uh. For

1123
01:09:48,400 --> 01:09:51,840
Speaker 1: further female characters we have. We have Lauren Bicall, who

1124
01:09:52,520 --> 01:09:55,800
Speaker 1: is great. I feel like her character, you know, like

1125
01:09:56,000 --> 01:10:00,320
Speaker 1: was properly motivated to like save her clients. And also

1126
01:10:00,360 --> 01:10:02,640
Speaker 1: I just love agent characters because it's always like the

1127
01:10:02,680 --> 01:10:05,519
Speaker 1: subtext is like I need to save my my my

1128
01:10:05,560 --> 01:10:09,599
Speaker 1: money pile, not my person I care about. UM. Always

1129
01:10:09,600 --> 01:10:13,280
Speaker 1: a fun character. UM. And then you have Virginia, who's

1130
01:10:13,280 --> 01:10:17,479
Speaker 1: an icon, a legend and I am bombed that they

1131
01:10:17,520 --> 01:10:20,160
Speaker 1: did not like she? How does she? How does she

1132
01:10:20,200 --> 01:10:23,400
Speaker 1: react when she finds out Buster has been her shot?

1133
01:10:23,520 --> 01:10:25,840
Speaker 1: And or run over with a tractor in the book,

1134
01:10:26,680 --> 01:10:32,479
Speaker 1: and or oh god, yeah, poor Virginia. Also horny icon

1135
01:10:32,960 --> 01:10:35,040
Speaker 1: she's trying to she's trying to jerk her husband off

1136
01:10:35,080 --> 01:10:41,559
Speaker 1: at work. Good fun, pretty cool. Yeah, yeah, I love

1137
01:10:41,720 --> 01:10:46,640
Speaker 1: I think the women in the movie all. What I

1138
01:10:46,680 --> 01:10:51,680
Speaker 1: do like about that, I guess it's three right, it's yeah, yeah,

1139
01:10:51,800 --> 01:10:56,240
Speaker 1: is that they're all, in my opinion, very strong character. Still,

1140
01:10:56,520 --> 01:11:01,439
Speaker 1: they're women with the mission. Obviously, you know, any played

1141
01:11:01,439 --> 01:11:03,920
Speaker 1: by a Kathy Basis mission is not a good one,

1142
01:11:04,160 --> 01:11:07,799
Speaker 1: not a commission, not a mission we are rooting for,

1143
01:11:08,240 --> 01:11:10,479
Speaker 1: but a mission. Nonetheless, you know what I mean, They're

1144
01:11:10,640 --> 01:11:16,040
Speaker 1: very active character, and they're all smart, they all have

1145
01:11:16,240 --> 01:11:20,720
Speaker 1: things figured out. They all, you know, are kind of

1146
01:11:20,760 --> 01:11:24,080
Speaker 1: a step ahead of whatever you know for so I

1147
01:11:24,240 --> 01:11:27,479
Speaker 1: like that I can say that all of them are

1148
01:11:27,520 --> 01:11:30,920
Speaker 1: strong and motivated in their own rights. I really like

1149
01:11:31,000 --> 01:11:36,120
Speaker 1: that nobody felt like a vapid, unnecessary character or a

1150
01:11:36,200 --> 01:11:40,920
Speaker 1: character used for to be like a sex symbol or

1151
01:11:41,040 --> 01:11:44,360
Speaker 1: to you know, to learn the guys to the theater.

1152
01:11:44,720 --> 01:11:49,680
Speaker 1: Like I like I like that they all the characters

1153
01:11:50,400 --> 01:11:53,479
Speaker 1: felt very strong but also very and I like the

1154
01:11:53,520 --> 01:11:56,920
Speaker 1: casting of them too. I think that they give that

1155
01:11:57,040 --> 01:11:59,840
Speaker 1: as well. They're they're giving. We care about the character

1156
01:12:00,200 --> 01:12:02,960
Speaker 1: so much what they look like, and as an actor,

1157
01:12:03,120 --> 01:12:06,840
Speaker 1: I I always those are roles that I am drawn to.

1158
01:12:07,000 --> 01:12:09,360
Speaker 1: But also it's it's roles that I appreciate seeing on

1159
01:12:09,520 --> 01:12:14,600
Speaker 1: screen where I can say, yes, this woman is beautiful

1160
01:12:14,680 --> 01:12:17,680
Speaker 1: or strong, whatever, but what matters is not just what

1161
01:12:17,800 --> 01:12:21,160
Speaker 1: she looks like. She's saying something, she's doing something. She

1162
01:12:21,280 --> 01:12:24,160
Speaker 1: has real motivations. And I like that I can say

1163
01:12:24,160 --> 01:12:26,559
Speaker 1: that about all three, all three of the women. Yeah,

1164
01:12:26,640 --> 01:12:29,960
Speaker 1: for sure. Yeah, And just like the fact that it's like,

1165
01:12:29,960 --> 01:12:33,120
Speaker 1: like you're saying, actually, like they're three women who are

1166
01:12:33,160 --> 01:12:35,240
Speaker 1: over forty, and we know what their jobs are, and

1167
01:12:35,240 --> 01:12:37,639
Speaker 1: their jobs are important to what they're doing at all times,

1168
01:12:37,800 --> 01:12:41,240
Speaker 1: very important and important to the story. Like it's important

1169
01:12:41,360 --> 01:12:44,160
Speaker 1: it's important that his agent is like, no, like he's

1170
01:12:44,160 --> 01:12:48,200
Speaker 1: missing what's going on. It's important that Virginia is like, muster,

1171
01:12:48,400 --> 01:12:50,439
Speaker 1: something's going on here. I don't know, I'm gonna you know,

1172
01:12:50,479 --> 01:12:54,240
Speaker 1: it's important that Kathy baits, you know, Annie has this

1173
01:12:54,320 --> 01:12:57,920
Speaker 1: mission of getting Paul Sheldon to do what she wants

1174
01:12:58,000 --> 01:13:00,960
Speaker 1: him to do. Whether again, it's there's you know, we

1175
01:13:01,000 --> 01:13:04,679
Speaker 1: don't agree with her, but she's you know, sledge hammering

1176
01:13:04,720 --> 01:13:08,559
Speaker 1: off ankles. You know, there's a lot of bad stuff happening,

1177
01:13:09,040 --> 01:13:14,719
Speaker 1: but everyone's motivation is very clear. I bang with that. Yeah, yeah,

1178
01:13:14,760 --> 01:13:17,080
Speaker 1: for sure. And it's like there are three female characters,

1179
01:13:17,080 --> 01:13:18,760
Speaker 1: but there's also not a lot of men. It's just

1180
01:13:18,880 --> 01:13:22,080
Speaker 1: a pretty small cast in general. Like yeah, yeah, because

1181
01:13:22,080 --> 01:13:24,639
Speaker 1: it's like there's like, what six people in this movie?

1182
01:13:24,800 --> 01:13:27,200
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. I mean, look, I don't know what our

1183
01:13:27,240 --> 01:13:31,160
Speaker 1: listeners were expecting, but this movie does rock. It rocks

1184
01:13:31,160 --> 01:13:39,479
Speaker 1: and the rules rules that. I will give credit to

1185
01:13:39,560 --> 01:13:41,639
Speaker 1: Jamie for that because I heard you say that one

1186
01:13:41,680 --> 01:13:44,000
Speaker 1: time and I was like, that's a good Oh. My

1187
01:13:44,000 --> 01:13:47,000
Speaker 1: mom used to say that when I did my homework.

1188
01:13:48,800 --> 01:13:54,719
Speaker 1: Ross and Rules rocks, Rolls and Rules. I also Mystery

1189
01:13:54,800 --> 01:13:56,920
Speaker 1: is also just a movie. I don't know anyone who's

1190
01:13:56,920 --> 01:13:59,240
Speaker 1: seen it doesn't like it. Like I've never heard one

1191
01:13:59,280 --> 01:14:03,040
Speaker 1: person be like I hate misery, never want to see

1192
01:14:03,080 --> 01:14:06,360
Speaker 1: that again. Like I've never heard someone say that. All right,

1193
01:14:06,520 --> 01:14:09,760
Speaker 1: is there any any other anything we haven't touched on?

1194
01:14:10,400 --> 01:14:12,800
Speaker 1: I think it's all I have, same, oh I wrote, Oh,

1195
01:14:12,880 --> 01:14:16,080
Speaker 1: I wrote, Um, Okay, here's some of my worst thoughts

1196
01:14:16,120 --> 01:14:20,880
Speaker 1: I had. Please okay, the original para social relationship cautionary tale. Okay,

1197
01:14:20,920 --> 01:14:24,160
Speaker 1: we talked about that. Okay. Here's my other thing, feminist icon,

1198
01:14:24,600 --> 01:14:29,599
Speaker 1: the piss jug question mark hundred percent feminist icon, the piss.

1199
01:14:30,000 --> 01:14:32,040
Speaker 1: I can't believe we've been talking for an hour and

1200
01:14:32,080 --> 01:14:34,280
Speaker 1: a half and we haven't brought up the piss jug

1201
01:14:34,760 --> 01:14:38,479
Speaker 1: in a in a really funny scene where she's just

1202
01:14:38,600 --> 01:14:41,760
Speaker 1: like kind of flinging it around. I think it has

1203
01:14:41,800 --> 01:14:44,400
Speaker 1: a lid on it, so there's no danger of the

1204
01:14:44,439 --> 01:14:49,520
Speaker 1: piss you're flying out, but there's the like, the cinematography

1205
01:14:49,520 --> 01:14:51,759
Speaker 1: in that scene is so focused on the piss jug

1206
01:14:52,120 --> 01:14:55,960
Speaker 1: and Paul James con watching the piss jug thinking that

1207
01:14:56,000 --> 01:14:57,880
Speaker 1: it's going to spill all over him. Please don't spell

1208
01:14:57,880 --> 01:15:02,040
Speaker 1: my piss on me U cint A. Photographer Barry Snenfeld

1209
01:15:02,800 --> 01:15:06,880
Speaker 1: wild that you know a lot of talent in this movie. Yeah, yeah,

1210
01:15:06,920 --> 01:15:09,800
Speaker 1: I liked. I mean, as someone who um has has

1211
01:15:09,840 --> 01:15:13,680
Speaker 1: done some piss jug caretaking in my day, I appreciated

1212
01:15:13,720 --> 01:15:17,880
Speaker 1: piss jug representation because it's a it's a part of

1213
01:15:17,880 --> 01:15:24,639
Speaker 1: the Gig incredible. Um. Well, this movie I do not

1214
01:15:24,800 --> 01:15:28,920
Speaker 1: believe actually passes the Bechdel test unless you do count

1215
01:15:29,560 --> 01:15:34,360
Speaker 1: the conversation that Anny and her pig named Misery, so

1216
01:15:34,760 --> 01:15:38,479
Speaker 1: we know the pig's name. They do kind of snort

1217
01:15:38,600 --> 01:15:41,600
Speaker 1: and oink around each other. I would say it it

1218
01:15:42,520 --> 01:15:46,960
Speaker 1: like doesn't pass, but also that this is we've talked

1219
01:15:46,960 --> 01:15:49,880
Speaker 1: about this for years, even though some people never want

1220
01:15:49,880 --> 01:15:52,160
Speaker 1: to hear it. But like that, just like the fact

1221
01:15:52,200 --> 01:15:55,400
Speaker 1: that like this, this metric was created as like a

1222
01:15:55,439 --> 01:15:58,439
Speaker 1: bit and it doesn't you know, it's not the end

1223
01:15:58,439 --> 01:16:01,120
Speaker 1: all be all, yeah it and decide if something is

1224
01:16:01,680 --> 01:16:05,760
Speaker 1: you know, overtly feminist or not. Um, but what does

1225
01:16:06,640 --> 01:16:12,160
Speaker 1: is decide That is our nipple scale, on which we

1226
01:16:12,280 --> 01:16:17,280
Speaker 1: rate the movie zero to five nipples. Examining the movie

1227
01:16:17,560 --> 01:16:22,839
Speaker 1: through an intersectional feminist lens. Now, this one is another

1228
01:16:23,000 --> 01:16:26,720
Speaker 1: very tricky one because of the different ways that you

1229
01:16:26,760 --> 01:16:31,360
Speaker 1: can examine this movie. Could you argue that Annie Wilkes

1230
01:16:31,560 --> 01:16:36,360
Speaker 1: is a like reclaimable you know, female villain because she's

1231
01:16:36,400 --> 01:16:39,400
Speaker 1: so smart and because she's always one step ahead, and

1232
01:16:39,840 --> 01:16:42,280
Speaker 1: you know, for any number of other reasons. I think

1233
01:16:42,640 --> 01:16:44,960
Speaker 1: sure I can see that argument. Could you make the

1234
01:16:45,040 --> 01:16:50,680
Speaker 1: argument that it's another example of you know, villainizing an

1235
01:16:50,680 --> 01:16:55,240
Speaker 1: older woman, an unmarried woman with no children, a woman

1236
01:16:55,360 --> 01:16:59,559
Speaker 1: whose appearance and body size doesn't conform to rigid Western

1237
01:16:59,560 --> 01:17:05,280
Speaker 1: beauties standards, and that those attributes being kind of used

1238
01:17:05,280 --> 01:17:09,479
Speaker 1: to demonize her. Sure, there there's lots of things. And

1239
01:17:09,520 --> 01:17:13,000
Speaker 1: then when you think back to Stephen King's original intention,

1240
01:17:13,040 --> 01:17:15,880
Speaker 1: which he revealed some years later, was that this is

1241
01:17:16,360 --> 01:17:18,640
Speaker 1: you know, the anti character is a metaphor for his

1242
01:17:18,840 --> 01:17:22,800
Speaker 1: addiction that there's a whole other lens by which you

1243
01:17:22,840 --> 01:17:26,280
Speaker 1: can um watch this story. But then those implications still

1244
01:17:26,320 --> 01:17:28,600
Speaker 1: exist as far as like her character goes in the

1245
01:17:28,600 --> 01:17:31,720
Speaker 1: way that she is characterized. So right, right, I don't

1246
01:17:31,760 --> 01:17:35,600
Speaker 1: know that there's I can't really come to a conclusive

1247
01:17:36,160 --> 01:17:40,840
Speaker 1: thought because I really like this movie. I don't think

1248
01:17:40,840 --> 01:17:44,600
Speaker 1: it's saying something like all women are scary and unhinged,

1249
01:17:44,640 --> 01:17:47,160
Speaker 1: because we see other characters in the movie who are

1250
01:17:47,240 --> 01:17:51,559
Speaker 1: very much not that. So it's just I think some

1251
01:17:51,640 --> 01:17:56,080
Speaker 1: people are very scary and murderers, and sometimes those people

1252
01:17:56,120 --> 01:17:59,479
Speaker 1: are women, and here is a story about one such woman,

1253
01:18:00,000 --> 01:18:03,960
Speaker 1: and in a way, that's feminism, and that's actually feminism. Um,

1254
01:18:04,000 --> 01:18:05,800
Speaker 1: you know, there are some as We've discussed some like

1255
01:18:05,840 --> 01:18:08,960
Speaker 1: kind of gendered things and you know, like kind of

1256
01:18:09,040 --> 01:18:12,960
Speaker 1: stereotypical tropes at play, but this is not the worst

1257
01:18:12,960 --> 01:18:17,080
Speaker 1: example we've seen, especially in this era, horror movies, thriller

1258
01:18:17,120 --> 01:18:20,800
Speaker 1: movies in this era, across the kind of you know,

1259
01:18:20,960 --> 01:18:25,000
Speaker 1: genre spectrum. Even so, Yeah, and so I'm going to

1260
01:18:25,080 --> 01:18:27,400
Speaker 1: do what I normally do when I don't know how

1261
01:18:27,479 --> 01:18:29,679
Speaker 1: to rate a movie, and that's just do a split

1262
01:18:29,720 --> 01:18:33,360
Speaker 1: down the middle of two point five nipples. I will

1263
01:18:33,479 --> 01:18:38,679
Speaker 1: give one to Kathy Bates and her incredible performance. Um,

1264
01:18:39,040 --> 01:18:41,400
Speaker 1: I will give another one to Kathy Bates and her

1265
01:18:41,400 --> 01:18:45,000
Speaker 1: incredible performance in Titanic as the unsinkable Molly Brown. And

1266
01:18:45,040 --> 01:18:51,559
Speaker 1: I'll give my half nipple to Misery the pig. I've

1267
01:18:52,040 --> 01:18:54,320
Speaker 1: I'm tempted to go in my I was like, if

1268
01:18:54,360 --> 01:18:57,639
Speaker 1: I was really going buck Wild, I would go three

1269
01:18:57,640 --> 01:18:59,920
Speaker 1: and a half. I think I'm gonna go three because

1270
01:18:59,920 --> 01:19:02,759
Speaker 1: I do think that there are, like what we we've discussed,

1271
01:19:02,880 --> 01:19:06,360
Speaker 1: there are a lot of tropes about women who are

1272
01:19:06,439 --> 01:19:10,760
Speaker 1: not traditionally you know, Hollywood hot and young, um, that

1273
01:19:10,960 --> 01:19:15,519
Speaker 1: are being leveraged as like a shorthand. To explain why

1274
01:19:15,560 --> 01:19:18,800
Speaker 1: Andy Wilkes is the way she is. However, I think

1275
01:19:18,800 --> 01:19:21,240
Speaker 1: we also get a lot of explanation as to why

1276
01:19:21,280 --> 01:19:23,719
Speaker 1: Annie Wilkes is the way she is. That would also

1277
01:19:23,800 --> 01:19:27,200
Speaker 1: work if you cast a traditional hot Hollywood actress, like

1278
01:19:27,560 --> 01:19:32,280
Speaker 1: she's just like implicitly evil. And so there's so many

1279
01:19:32,280 --> 01:19:34,360
Speaker 1: ways to look at this movie. I feel like the

1280
01:19:34,400 --> 01:19:37,719
Speaker 1: fact that you know, over thirty years later, we're able

1281
01:19:37,800 --> 01:19:41,640
Speaker 1: to still have such a rich discussion about like what

1282
01:19:41,840 --> 01:19:43,880
Speaker 1: she could mean and all the different ways to look

1283
01:19:43,880 --> 01:19:46,599
Speaker 1: at this character speaks very well of it, and especially

1284
01:19:46,640 --> 01:19:50,160
Speaker 1: if like Kathy Bates's performance. But obviously there are tropes

1285
01:19:50,240 --> 01:19:53,160
Speaker 1: at play that you know, you could watch the movie

1286
01:19:53,200 --> 01:19:55,479
Speaker 1: and think the movies commenting on or you could watch

1287
01:19:55,479 --> 01:19:57,719
Speaker 1: the movie and think that the movie is completely playing

1288
01:19:57,720 --> 01:20:02,080
Speaker 1: into and it's just a it's a tricky one. Um.

1289
01:20:02,120 --> 01:20:05,320
Speaker 1: But of the Stephen King adaptations, I think that's this

1290
01:20:05,400 --> 01:20:07,680
Speaker 1: is like, I mean, definitely up there is one of

1291
01:20:07,720 --> 01:20:10,160
Speaker 1: my favorites. I don't know if what my favorite Stephen

1292
01:20:10,240 --> 01:20:12,479
Speaker 1: King adaptation is. I know that I get very horny

1293
01:20:12,560 --> 01:20:17,720
Speaker 1: for Bill scars Guard, So that's it as mr it

1294
01:20:18,640 --> 01:20:21,640
Speaker 1: not in its specifically, but just in general. But then

1295
01:20:21,680 --> 01:20:23,240
Speaker 1: it kind of has nothing to do with the quality

1296
01:20:23,280 --> 01:20:25,679
Speaker 1: of the movie, so it's complicated. Wait have you seen

1297
01:20:25,680 --> 01:20:30,679
Speaker 1: Barbarian yet? Just as quick little side. Oh yeah, it's good.

1298
01:20:31,080 --> 01:20:35,280
Speaker 1: It's really good. I rather liked it. Yeah, and it's

1299
01:20:35,320 --> 01:20:38,080
Speaker 1: a fun It's like it's I think it's my Halloween

1300
01:20:38,120 --> 01:20:41,400
Speaker 1: movie of the year so far. But yeah, I mean

1301
01:20:41,439 --> 01:20:44,000
Speaker 1: I think that this movie is still so ripe for

1302
01:20:44,080 --> 01:20:46,320
Speaker 1: discussion in a way that a lot of movies from

1303
01:20:46,320 --> 01:20:50,599
Speaker 1: this era aren't. So I'm gonna give it three and

1304
01:20:51,360 --> 01:20:53,719
Speaker 1: I still am like, do I think three and a half?

1305
01:20:53,760 --> 01:20:55,720
Speaker 1: I don't know. But ultimately it is like it's a

1306
01:20:55,760 --> 01:20:58,040
Speaker 1: movie that you know, it's you know, straight white guys

1307
01:20:58,080 --> 01:21:00,439
Speaker 1: all all the way, all the way down. There's no

1308
01:21:00,600 --> 01:21:04,839
Speaker 1: real diversity of talent behind the camera, which always sucks

1309
01:21:04,960 --> 01:21:07,240
Speaker 1: to see we're in front of the camera or in

1310
01:21:07,320 --> 01:21:12,040
Speaker 1: front of the camera, Um I meant gender wise as Yeah,

1311
01:21:12,040 --> 01:21:15,200
Speaker 1: but it's shout out to them. I think one person

1312
01:21:15,240 --> 01:21:19,040
Speaker 1: of color in the movie, who is a reporter, who

1313
01:21:19,160 --> 01:21:23,519
Speaker 1: is a black woman, saying that Paul Sheldon is presumed dead,

1314
01:21:24,439 --> 01:21:27,160
Speaker 1: I believe is the only where's her spin off? Where

1315
01:21:27,280 --> 01:21:30,880
Speaker 1: is her spin off? But yeah, I think I'll go

1316
01:21:30,960 --> 01:21:34,599
Speaker 1: three nipples, uh and I'll give I'll give one to Annie,

1317
01:21:34,920 --> 01:21:37,759
Speaker 1: one to misery the peg and one to misery the character.

1318
01:21:38,640 --> 01:21:41,080
Speaker 1: Or alternatively, I give all of them to Virginia and

1319
01:21:41,120 --> 01:21:45,920
Speaker 1: she can use the spare like a tire. Yes, good, good, good, Actually,

1320
01:21:45,920 --> 01:21:50,240
Speaker 1: how about you. I love both of the arguments, and

1321
01:21:50,280 --> 01:21:53,559
Speaker 1: I actually agree very much so with you both. I

1322
01:21:53,560 --> 01:21:58,200
Speaker 1: think I'm giving it three nipples. I'm giving it to

1323
01:21:58,680 --> 01:22:02,760
Speaker 1: the three female leads in the movie. I think that's

1324
01:22:02,800 --> 01:22:07,479
Speaker 1: why he gets three. The agent, you know, Virginia Buster's wife,

1325
01:22:08,080 --> 01:22:11,440
Speaker 1: and you know Lauren Ball obviously his agent, and um

1326
01:22:11,600 --> 01:22:15,400
Speaker 1: to Cathy Bates. I think that, you know, they're all

1327
01:22:15,600 --> 01:22:20,840
Speaker 1: very important, useful, like I said, strong characters in the movie,

1328
01:22:21,000 --> 01:22:23,720
Speaker 1: and I think that because of that, I'm giving it

1329
01:22:23,840 --> 01:22:28,120
Speaker 1: three to represent all all three of them. Nice for sure, wonderful. Actually,

1330
01:22:28,120 --> 01:22:30,840
Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us, Thanks for having me,

1331
01:22:30,920 --> 01:22:33,840
Speaker 1: Thank you for bringing us this movie. Yeah, talking about

1332
01:22:33,880 --> 01:22:38,960
Speaker 1: Misery on a Monday, ely, what better time. And we'll

1333
01:22:39,000 --> 01:22:42,479
Speaker 1: come back any time to talk about any other film. Yes,

1334
01:22:42,800 --> 01:22:45,559
Speaker 1: thank you so much. You guys are just incredibly brilliant

1335
01:22:45,600 --> 01:22:50,759
Speaker 1: and cool. Oh stop it are you are a number

1336
01:22:50,760 --> 01:22:57,400
Speaker 1: one fan? Yes, to be talking about anything films and women,

1337
01:22:57,520 --> 01:22:59,679
Speaker 1: I mean, it's right up my at least this is great.

1338
01:23:00,080 --> 01:23:02,040
Speaker 1: Come back any time. We'd love to have you back.

1339
01:23:02,360 --> 01:23:06,880
Speaker 1: Thank you. Where can people follow you online and have

1340
01:23:07,040 --> 01:23:12,000
Speaker 1: a healthy paras social relationship. You can follow me on

1341
01:23:12,160 --> 01:23:17,280
Speaker 1: Instagram and Twitter at Ashley Blaine and then my podcast

1342
01:23:17,600 --> 01:23:22,080
Speaker 1: at Trials to Triumph Spodum on both Yeah awesome, Yes,

1343
01:23:22,120 --> 01:23:26,280
Speaker 1: please check Ashley out. You can follow us on social

1344
01:23:26,320 --> 01:23:31,720
Speaker 1: media at Bechtel Cast on Twitter and Instagram. You can

1345
01:23:31,720 --> 01:23:37,480
Speaker 1: subscribe to our Patreon a k a Matreon at patreon

1346
01:23:37,520 --> 01:23:39,960
Speaker 1: dot com slash backtel Cast, where you get to bonus

1347
01:23:39,960 --> 01:23:44,759
Speaker 1: episodes every single month. This month we are doing spooky movies,

1348
01:23:45,479 --> 01:23:49,519
Speaker 1: so of course we are doing Final Destination three we

1349
01:23:49,600 --> 01:23:54,240
Speaker 1: have not covered one or two um and as well

1350
01:23:54,280 --> 01:23:59,559
Speaker 1: as Malignant the James One masterpiece, yes, feminist masterpiece by

1351
01:23:59,680 --> 01:24:01,880
Speaker 1: Mr games one. Uh And that's five dollars a month.

1352
01:24:01,920 --> 01:24:04,840
Speaker 1: And you also get access to the back catalog. And

1353
01:24:04,880 --> 01:24:09,000
Speaker 1: sorry there's a siren because that's Buster and Virginia coming

1354
01:24:09,040 --> 01:24:13,000
Speaker 1: to save me. I've been trapped this whole time. Copaganda.

1355
01:24:13,320 --> 01:24:17,160
Speaker 1: Copaganda got us again, didn't it? Okay? You can also

1356
01:24:17,200 --> 01:24:19,879
Speaker 1: get our march over at t public dot com Slash

1357
01:24:20,160 --> 01:24:23,400
Speaker 1: the Back del Cast if you're so inclined to get

1358
01:24:23,479 --> 01:24:27,040
Speaker 1: merch and uh and with that, let's go publish a

1359
01:24:27,120 --> 01:24:30,200
Speaker 1: bestseller but be haunted by the ghost of Annie Wilkes

1360
01:24:30,240 --> 01:24:32,200
Speaker 1: for the rest of our lives. Let's do it. I

1361
01:24:32,280 --> 01:24:34,880
Speaker 1: do not sign up for that. I don't want that.

1362
01:24:37,320 --> 01:24:40,880
Speaker 1: Fair fair, fair, fair Okay, bye bye bye