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Speaker 1: Hey, everyone, Welcome to The Houndation's podcast. I'm your host,

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Speaker 1: Tony Peterson, and today I'm chatting with my good buddy

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Speaker 1: Bob Saint Pierre of Pheasants Forever. You guys know how

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Speaker 1: much I love pheasants, but my guest today might actually

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Speaker 1: love them a little more than I do. Bob Saint

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Speaker 1: Pierre is the marketing director for Pheasants Forever, a total

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Speaker 1: upland hunting addict, a German shorthair owner, and all around

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Speaker 1: great guy. I always love talking to Bob, who also

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Speaker 1: happens to host the Pheasants Forever on the Wing podcast.

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Speaker 1: Today we cover all kinds of good stuff related to

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Speaker 1: pheasant hunting, young dog development, how wrong Stephen Ronelle is sometimes,

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Speaker 1: and a whole host of other good stuff. So buckle

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Speaker 1: up because it's time to start. Bob Saint Pierre, it

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Speaker 1: is always good to see you, even when you shave

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Speaker 1: and you look like you de aged by like twenty

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Speaker 1: five years. How old are you not?

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Speaker 2: Seven? I'm looking forward to turn thirty later this winter.

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Speaker 2: I you know you hit that age. I saw I'm

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Speaker 2: fifty one and I don't know like every two years.

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Speaker 2: I was at the gym the other day got down

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Speaker 2: working out, and I grabbed one of those just cheap

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Speaker 2: ass razors at the gym, right, and I went through

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Speaker 2: no lote twenty six races. Oh boy, my face looked

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Speaker 2: like you know, I was going through huberty and had

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Speaker 2: just for the first time, Oh my gosh. And you know,

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Speaker 2: I just so I went to town and yeah, I shaved

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Speaker 2: it all off, which is the opposite of what you're

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Speaker 2: supposed to do heading into you know, the hard hunting season.

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Speaker 1: Well, if it makes you feel better. So a little

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Speaker 1: while ago, I filmed a youth rifle hunt with one

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Speaker 1: of my daughters, one of my thirteen year old daughters,

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Speaker 1: and we were sitting in the blind on the last

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Speaker 1: evening and we were just going through my camera role,

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Speaker 1: looking at fishing pictures and whatever else, just just killing time, right,

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Speaker 1: and she saw a picture of me from two years

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Speaker 1: ago when I was down. I was scouting some public

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Speaker 1: land in Oklahoma for a white tail hunt I did

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Speaker 1: with Steve, and I had found a turtle and so

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Speaker 1: I just like took like when I catch critters, like

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Speaker 1: I catched snakes and whatever out there, I always take

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Speaker 1: a picture for the girls. So like those are those

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Speaker 1: are the selfies I take typically and there was a

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Speaker 1: picture of me. I had found a turtle while I

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Speaker 1: was scouting, and I was pretty clean. I wasn't totally

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Speaker 1: clean shaven, but I had like a nice trimmed up

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Speaker 1: beerd because I was filming a show. And she's like,

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Speaker 1: you know, Dad, you should probably do that with your

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Speaker 1: beard more. And I was like, okay, point taken. Not

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Speaker 1: a subtle nudge. She's like, you're a little too scruffy.

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Speaker 1: So I hear you, buddy before. So why don't you

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Speaker 1: give people you know, I was just on the Pheasants

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Speaker 1: Forever podcast not too long ago. People should go check

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Speaker 1: it out. We had a great conversation. Do you do

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Speaker 1: a really good job with that show? But why don't

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Speaker 1: you give people just so like a little little thirty

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Speaker 1: thousand foot view of who Bob Saint Pierre is and

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Speaker 1: what you do for your job because it's germane to

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Speaker 1: the everything we're going to talk about today.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, right on right, And thanks very much for the

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Speaker 2: kind words. Joining on the Wing podcast where you admitted

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Speaker 2: to liking Pheasants more than anything else, including white tailed deer.

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Speaker 2: So I will point people back towards that. Yeah, I

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Speaker 2: grew up in the Upper Peninsula, Michigan where that's relevant

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Speaker 2: because I fell in love with upland birds, particularly rough

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Speaker 2: grouse and the timberdoodle as a youngster. In you know,

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Speaker 2: I guess three things I loved right from the jump,

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Speaker 2: rough grouse, timberdoodle, and baseball. And I worked in a

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Speaker 2: minor league baseball for seven years out of college. And

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Speaker 2: I had two job opportunities, one to be the director

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Speaker 2: of marketing for the Detroit Tigers or one to be

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Speaker 2: the director of marketing for Pheasants Forever. And in two

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Speaker 2: thousand and three I took the Pheasants Forever gig and

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Speaker 2: haven't looked back. It's been a dream job.

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Speaker 1: How tough was that decision to make oh Man?

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Speaker 2: Honestly so, because you know I named my bird dogs

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Speaker 2: after Detroit, you know, Tigers. My first bird dog was

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Speaker 2: named Trammel, My second was named Iserman, called her Izzy

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Speaker 2: after the Red Wings star. My third bird dog was

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Speaker 2: named escanaba Eski after my hometown. Fourth is Getchie after

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Speaker 2: Getchie Goomy. So Michigan is you know, buried in my

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Speaker 2: heart for sure, And you know, to think about trying

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Speaker 2: to choose between a job with my childhood team or

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Speaker 2: my child passion. And it was pretty that decision was

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Speaker 2: informed by seven years in the minor leagues where from

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Speaker 2: Easter to Labor Day I worked at the ballpark every

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Speaker 2: day and I wasn't breaking rocks, but I really didn't

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Speaker 2: get to fish and very rarely got to hunt. Because

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Speaker 2: when you're in baseball, you get done with the season

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Speaker 2: and you make your money based on how many outfield

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Speaker 2: billboards you can sell, can you sell inflatable bat night,

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Speaker 2: loco baseball night? You're making commission. And if you're not

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Speaker 2: in the office selling those promotions and those advertising in October, November, December,

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Speaker 2: you're leaving a lot of your salary on the table,

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Speaker 2: which meant no fishing, very little hunting. And so I

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Speaker 2: chose Pheasants Forever in three You know, it is perfect

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Speaker 2: choice for me because I could do something that you know,

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Speaker 2: I give back to, something that's so important to me,

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Speaker 2: so important to you know, the future of the planet, honestly,

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Speaker 2: creating habitat for wild species. And yeah, and I could

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Speaker 2: live vicariously through the Tigers. They've been to the World

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Speaker 2: Series twice since I said yes, the Physics Forever, but

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Speaker 2: they haven't won a World Series so at some point

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Speaker 2: I hope they win. But yeah, it's been a good decision.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I can't imagine that choice for you, knowing you

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Speaker 1: the way you are. I want to talk about so

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Speaker 1: you're out in my neck of the woods. Now, you

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Speaker 1: live in Minnesota, you know, work out of the Pheasants

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Speaker 1: Forever office here. Obviously, before we get into it, I

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Speaker 1: want to just talk a little shit about Steve Vanella,

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Speaker 1: if you're good with that, become a Michigander, right, who

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Speaker 1: took a vastly different path than you did. When I

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Speaker 1: was out in Oklahoma on that hunt, I brought up

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Speaker 1: earlier Steve and I just got onto the topic of whatever,

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Speaker 1: and I can I love to argue, Steve loves to argue.

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Speaker 1: So the whole time we found lots of things to

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Speaker 1: disagree on. But one of the things he said to

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Speaker 1: me was that pheasants aren't a real game bird. And

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Speaker 1: I said, because they were brought in, right, And he's like,

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Speaker 1: well that and they need to be babysat otherwise you

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Speaker 1: don't have a population and they can't really survive out

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Speaker 1: there in the wild. And I was like, you have

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Speaker 1: no idea what you're talking about. How do you feel

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Speaker 1: about that.

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Speaker 2: Stirring the pot right from the get go. I like,

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Speaker 2: you know, I think that I'm within a month's age

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Speaker 2: of I might be a month younger than Steven, if

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Speaker 2: I recall correctly. And so we came up in Michigan

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Speaker 2: at the same time. And there was a fundamental problem

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Speaker 2: in Michigan with pheasants in our formative years, and that

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Speaker 2: was in Michigan they spent a pile of money on

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Speaker 2: what was called the Seschewan pheasants, and it was build

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Speaker 2: the Michiganders as this bird that could live anywhere, and

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Speaker 2: it was going to populate, you know, from the suburban

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Speaker 2: area of Detroit to the north woods of the Upper Peninsula,

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Speaker 2: and it was super adaptable and was going to live

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Speaker 2: in the grasslands, and it was going to live in

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Speaker 2: the woodlands, and it was going to be all things

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Speaker 2: to all people bird hunter wise, and nothing could have

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Speaker 2: been further from the truth. It was the biggest waste

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Speaker 2: of money. The birds never took off, They never took

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Speaker 2: a foothold. And actually the the money, if I recall correctly,

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Speaker 2: this is before my time at pheasants forever. But it

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Speaker 2: was such a disase aster that the Michigan d n

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Speaker 2: R kind of bailed on that concept and donated the

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Speaker 2: money to pheasants forever back in the day and said,

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Speaker 2: go do some good work on habitat because that, as

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Speaker 2: always is the right thing for wild populations. And so

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Speaker 2: I think back to that, and I think about, you know,

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Speaker 2: the combination of Stevens you know, thoughts on pheasants, and

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Speaker 2: he is disdained too strong of a word for his

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Speaker 2: perspective on dogs, and I think I know he wasn't.

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Speaker 2: He wasn't set up to like burden hunting, and he's

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Speaker 2: got a negative perspective.

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Speaker 1: In fact, I invited him out for a late season hunt.

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Speaker 1: I was like, come on out and I'll show you

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Speaker 1: a real pheasant hunt. He won't do it, but it

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Speaker 1: would be great because it would just be fun. It's

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Speaker 1: that mentality has even infected his own a son who

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Speaker 1: had a conversation with recently out there, who also told

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Speaker 1: me the pheasants weren't real. He actually told me that

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Speaker 1: we couldn't be friends because I like white tails and

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Speaker 1: I like pheasants. I was like, we weren't going to

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Speaker 1: be friends anyway, buddy, but I want to so those

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Speaker 1: Seschuan pheasants I'm want to get back to that story

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Speaker 1: for a second, because was there I'm not that familiar

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Speaker 1: with that story in Michigan. Was there like a case

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Speaker 1: study somewhere else where those birds had really taken hold

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Speaker 1: in a similar environment or a similar like, No.

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Speaker 2: That's a I don't know. I mean, this is gosh,

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Speaker 2: this is circa nineteen eighty seven, you know. So I'm

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Speaker 2: fourteen years old and I'm watching through Michigan out out

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Speaker 2: of Doors television and Discovery, the old school outdoor programming

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Speaker 2: in Michigan, and you know, they had really hyped it up.

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Speaker 2: These Sescheuan birds are going to be coming to everywhere

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Speaker 2: in Michigan, and they're going to be fabulous. By two years,

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Speaker 2: they had thrown in the towel and nobody'd ever seen it.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I think they essentially fed every hawk and

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Speaker 2: coyote in the state of Michigan, these sesuon birds, and

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Speaker 2: no nobody got to experience and with their bird dog.

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Speaker 2: So I don't know if there was any research or

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Speaker 2: what kind of research was done to make the dn

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Speaker 2: R believers in it. I can just say it tainted

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Speaker 2: my view, and I'm assuming that it tainted other people's view.

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Speaker 2: Including Steven view of pheasants as a you know, a

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Speaker 2: legit game bird, because these seschuans just weren't the real thing.

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Speaker 1: It sounds like somebody in the mafia got a line

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Speaker 1: on some game birds and they're like, hey, I got

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Speaker 1: a guy, and I got this connect over the DNR.

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Speaker 1: I think we can siphon off a bunch of this

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Speaker 1: state money and whatever.

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Speaker 2: Uh that.

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Speaker 1: You know, that's an interesting so when you when you

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Speaker 1: talk about something like that, you know, the messaging now

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Speaker 1: from a lot of conservation orgs, you know, like the

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Speaker 1: one you're involved in, and many of them. We kind

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Speaker 1: of used to be way more comfortable moving animals around

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Speaker 1: and moving fish around and just trying things like that.

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Speaker 1: You know, when you think about it, you know, you're

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Speaker 1: talking almost forty years ago now for that failed experiment.

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Speaker 1: And when you bring up nineteen eighty seven is a year.

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Speaker 1: The first thing I thought of is I remember, so

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Speaker 1: I was seven at that time. That was the first

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Speaker 1: year that my dad drew a turkey tag in Minnesota.

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Speaker 1: That was when we just started to get this sort

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Speaker 1: of viable hunting population. I can't remember when the first

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Speaker 1: season went, was eighty one or eighty three or something,

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Speaker 1: but it was you know, back then you had to draw. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: you could only hunt till noon, had a five days

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Speaker 1: season or whatever. It was like it was a very

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Speaker 1: very limited opportunity thing. And those birds had come up

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Speaker 1: from there was a trap and transplant thing from Missouri

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Speaker 1: and I actually think we traded them grouse for it

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Speaker 1: something like that, and that used to be sort of

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Speaker 1: them of a lot state game agencies. Was it was

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Speaker 1: just like very we weren't we weren't paying attention to

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Speaker 1: the invasive species thing. There wasn't maybe quite the emphasis

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Speaker 1: on habitat and that connection to viable game populations, and

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Speaker 1: so that was sort of a thing that happened, was like,

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Speaker 1: let's just try this. Put this put this critter on

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Speaker 1: the landscape, put this fish in the water, just see

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Speaker 1: where it goes. And we have learned a lot right

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Speaker 1: since then, and now, you know, who knows, maybe in

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Speaker 1: forty years they'll look back on this and go Habitat

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Speaker 1: wasn't the answer, but it sure seems like with a

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Speaker 1: lot of these critters you can you can watch you know,

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Speaker 1: locally like a micro example, or you can go macro

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Speaker 1: and go you know, pheasants are such a great example

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Speaker 1: of this in quailr too, where it's like it sure

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Speaker 1: seems like the connection between having a whole bunch of

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Speaker 1: these birds around year after year, surviving bad winners and

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Speaker 1: predators and good years and wet years and everything is

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Speaker 1: just the right habitat.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you're so right ahead. And about that. Back

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Speaker 2: in the eighties there was so much of that horse

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Speaker 2: trading going on with state agency. I think Michigan traded

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Speaker 2: turkeys to get a moose population in the Upper Peninsula

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Speaker 2: of Michigan. But you're like all sorts of states were trading,

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Speaker 2: trading one thing that they wanted with something they had

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Speaker 2: in abundance of. And you know, it was an era

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Speaker 2: of look for the easy way out, like let's just

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Speaker 2: take populations, you know, transplant them and hope the habitat

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Speaker 2: is right, And often was the case habitat wasn't right,

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Speaker 2: you know, to your point, like you gotta do the

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Speaker 2: hard work to have the right amount of grassland to

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Speaker 2: write or whatever the habitat type is for the species.

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Speaker 2: You just can't simply overpopulate something and hope that it

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Speaker 2: takes a foothold. If the habitat recipe isn't there, it

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Speaker 2: was a completely different era, and thankfully, by and large

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Speaker 2: we're letting science dictate what we're doing nowadays.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I mean you think about it, you know

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Speaker 1: so wild I mean, there's there's a lot of studies

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Speaker 1: out there on wild turkey populations right now because in

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Speaker 1: a lot of like sort of the premiere you know,

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Speaker 1: states where there's been a long the longest tradition of

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Speaker 1: hunting them in modern times anyway, the populations aren't doing

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Speaker 1: that great, and you know, so they've dialed back, you know, Nebraska, Kansas, Missouri.

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Speaker 1: You kind of look at those regions and there are

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Speaker 1: studies now like what's happening to them? Right because they

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Speaker 1: bring in a bird like the wild turkey, you know,

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Speaker 1: to Michigan or to Minnesota wherever where you already have

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Speaker 1: you might have more extreme weather than a lot of

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Speaker 1: the places they came from to some extent, right, worst winters, whatever,

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Speaker 1: but you're already putting them in a place where the

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Speaker 1: habitat is like generally conducive to that bird, right, tough

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Speaker 1: bird can make it through the winters, can eat a

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Speaker 1: lot of different stuff. And so you look at that

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Speaker 1: and go Okay, then you look at like a pheasant

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Speaker 1: or just a prime example, grouse. You know, where I

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Speaker 1: grew up, southeastern Minnesota. I grew up hunting pheasants and

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Speaker 1: grouse all over down there. And because we had a

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Speaker 1: lot of CRP in the nineties, so we had our pheasants,

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Speaker 1: you know, and then we had it seemed like just

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Speaker 1: like a more prevalent uh timber industry. And so the

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Speaker 1: grouse situation was like we would go out, my dad

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Speaker 1: and I, we would go out without dogs and shoot

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Speaker 1: grouse and pheasants and not really you know, you're just

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Speaker 1: kind of taking it for granted, like you can. I

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Speaker 1: can look back now and go, man, I had no

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Speaker 1: idea that those days were going to end right or

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Speaker 1: change to a point where it's like, yeah, like to

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Speaker 1: Steve's point, there are only going to be babysat pheasants

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Speaker 1: for a while kind of in some of these places

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Speaker 1: because somebody has to like specifically cater to them, and

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Speaker 1: you're going to have this little population that's sort of

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Speaker 1: an island, and you just look at that and go, man,

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Speaker 1: that wasn't that wasn't that long ago. It was twenty

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Speaker 1: five thirty years ago. But you can go down there

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Speaker 1: and find a grouse now, but you're gonna work your

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Speaker 1: ass off for it. And it's not like there aren't

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Speaker 1: populations there. But when you see land use change or

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Speaker 1: you see the habitat, you know, the CRP is such

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Speaker 1: an easy one for us to connect because we follow

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Speaker 1: this issue every year and you see the contracts expire

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Speaker 1: and the farm bill comes up, and it's like such

295
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Speaker 1: a there's like a linear connection there, but we don't

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Speaker 1: sometimes think about like how much this stuff has changed

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Speaker 1: in not really like that long of a span of time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I often equate, you know, pheasant hunter hunters and

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Speaker 2: rough grouse hunters. You know, I think rough grouse hunters

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Speaker 2: because the habitat is so incredibly visual, they're a little

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Speaker 2: bit more in tune with changes on the landscape because

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Speaker 2: you think about you go to your favorite habitat for

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Speaker 2: rough grouse and it's like that silver dollar diameter asspin

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Speaker 2: with some mix Christmas tree size evergreens where they always

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Speaker 2: seem to flush on the other side of right, and

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Speaker 2: some you know, food sources, but visually you can tell

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Speaker 2: when that stuff starts to age out or doesn't have

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Speaker 2: quite the right grousiness to it. And with pheasant hunters,

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Speaker 2: so often as well as habitat managers. You know, we

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Speaker 2: talk to people landowners and they're like, oh, yeah, we

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Speaker 2: haven't we haven't done anything, and we don't have any

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Speaker 2: birds anymore. It's like, well stop there, you know, we

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Speaker 2: haven't done anything. And if you were to take a

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Speaker 2: before and after photo of your grassland habitat where you know,

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Speaker 2: fifteen years ago you had all kinds of rooster, all

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Speaker 2: kinds of pheasants, and then you take a photo of

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Speaker 2: it now and things have changed. If you haven't done anything,

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Speaker 2: if you haven't done a prescribed fire, if you haven't

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Speaker 2: done woody tree removal. You know, the progression of grasslands

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Speaker 2: is to become a woodland if you don't do something

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Speaker 2: to manage it. And as you mentioned about CRP, you know,

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Speaker 2: in our lifetimes, you know, the high point of CRP,

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Speaker 2: the acre numbers is just shya forty million, thirty nine

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Speaker 2: point two million acres a CRP and that six o

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Speaker 2: seven eight timeframe. And if you look at a line

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Speaker 2: graph when CRP was at its peak, pheasant numbers were

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Speaker 2: at its peak, you know, and it crossed the range.

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Speaker 2: Minnesota had a sixty year high harvest and I think

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Speaker 2: it was seven South Dakota forty year high, North Dakota

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Speaker 2: forty year high. The only state that wasn't like popping,

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Speaker 2: you know seven o eight was Iowa, and Iowa had

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Speaker 2: bottomed out on CRP. They had peaked earlier than that.

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Speaker 2: Back in the day. You know, Iowa was the pheasant

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Speaker 2: capital of the country. They were harvesting the most birds

335
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Speaker 2: out of any state. It wasn't South Dakota. But then

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Speaker 2: as CRP took off in South Dakota and it declined

337
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Speaker 2: in Iowa, that's when the crossing of the streams happened.

338
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Speaker 2: In South Dakota became the clear and present pheasant capital

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Speaker 2: of the country, and Iowa struggled to recover. You know,

340
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Speaker 2: even a four hundred thousand bird harvests since those days

341
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Speaker 2: when they were easily harvest in a million birds. So

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Speaker 2: there's there's no better line graph to illustrate the importance

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Speaker 2: of CRP is that pheasant harvest total, you know, when

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Speaker 2: those numbers were high and when they bottom out or

345
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Speaker 2: pheasant numbers bottom out too. It's just it's it's symmetrical.

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Speaker 1: Right, I mean, if you want to maybe this isn't

347
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Speaker 1: a great analogy, if you want to understand how good.

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Speaker 1: The pheasant population was like in the late nineties in Iowa.

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Speaker 1: I almost didn't graduate high school because of how many

350
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Speaker 1: birds were out there. And we skipped school a lot

351
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Speaker 1: because we could get down there in fifty minutes and

352
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Speaker 1: we hunted. We hunted Iowa like crazy and it was

353
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Speaker 1: just incredible. And I would say this, I feel like

354
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Speaker 1: Iowa has come back to some level at least. And

355
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Speaker 1: it's totally anecdotal, right Like where I hunt, there's definitely

356
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Speaker 1: wild roosters to be found, you know, It's it's not

357
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Speaker 1: what it was, you know, and we were hunting an

358
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Speaker 1: eastern Iowa, which is a totally different thing back then.

359
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Speaker 1: I want to back up a second. I want to

360
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Speaker 1: ask you a question. So you made that joke about

361
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Speaker 1: grouse getting up on the other side of a pine

362
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Speaker 1: tree when you're walking through a spruce tree whatever. Yeah,

363
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Speaker 1: And it's and you know, so when you think about

364
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Speaker 1: like pheasant hunting, if you're walking the cattails whatever, and

365
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Speaker 1: there's like a willow thicket or a you know, a

366
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Speaker 1: dogwood thicket or something, you know, they'll get up on

367
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Speaker 1: the other side and you're always like, well, yeah, they

368
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Speaker 1: ran through, they hit some kind of soft edge, sat there,

369
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Speaker 1: we kept coming, dogs kept going and that's where they

370
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Speaker 1: took off. And it seems like very You're like, I

371
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Speaker 1: can make that connection with grouse when that happens. I've

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Speaker 1: started to think about this a lot. So when I said,

373
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Speaker 1: on tree stands, which I do, all fall for white tails,

374
00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:05,600
Speaker 1: a lot of times owls and other birds of prey

375
00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:08,320
Speaker 1: will take an interest in you. And it's because you're

376
00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:10,399
Speaker 1: sitting up there and there's like little movements right and

377
00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:12,560
Speaker 1: so they're like, you know, they see your hand move

378
00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:14,520
Speaker 1: or your your hat move or something. And I've had

379
00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:17,000
Speaker 1: a lot of birds of prey over the years take

380
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Speaker 1: a little like come in and take like a close

381
00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:23,119
Speaker 1: swipe and I've seen you for a while. In one

382
00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:25,639
Speaker 1: of the places I hunted had a pretty high owl population,

383
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Speaker 1: and I would watch those suckers. They'll come in and

384
00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:31,080
Speaker 1: they'll they'll see you and come in to check you out,

385
00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:33,320
Speaker 1: but they'll fly with a tree between you, so you'll

386
00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:36,119
Speaker 1: see like wingtips and then they'll scoot around it. And

387
00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:40,080
Speaker 1: I'm like, that is a intentional act where they're hiding

388
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Speaker 1: their approach, and so I wonder about it, like and

389
00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:45,360
Speaker 1: and so we look at predators like that and we go, yeah,

390
00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:47,800
Speaker 1: like they're kind of calculating. We give them like a

391
00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:51,280
Speaker 1: little more mental horsepower credit than we do prey animals

392
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Speaker 1: a lot of time. Like you think about I always

393
00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:55,960
Speaker 1: joke about grouse. I'm like grouse and cottontail rabbits are

394
00:22:56,000 --> 00:23:00,720
Speaker 1: like the candy bars of the outdoors, Like every gets dude,

395
00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:02,960
Speaker 1: everything eats them. They're easy to kill, like you can.

396
00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:05,400
Speaker 1: You can just about scare a rough grouse to death

397
00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:09,439
Speaker 1: right and a cottontail. But I wonder if there is

398
00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:11,960
Speaker 1: like a certain percentage of them that in their little

399
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:14,960
Speaker 1: brain have figured out that if I get something between

400
00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:18,000
Speaker 1: me and the danger, I just have a better chance

401
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:19,480
Speaker 1: of getting away. Do you think that's real or you

402
00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:20,560
Speaker 1: think that's total bullshit.

403
00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:24,240
Speaker 2: I think it's real, and I think it's true of

404
00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:29,160
Speaker 2: all upland game birds because I think about you'll quite

405
00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:33,840
Speaker 2: a scaled quail hunting in the desert. If you can't

406
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:36,640
Speaker 2: get them pinned down. You know, you've probably heard stories

407
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:40,400
Speaker 2: about them being track stars. If you can't get them

408
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:43,159
Speaker 2: pinned down into a clump of grass or get a

409
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:46,399
Speaker 2: dog on the you know, to get in front of

410
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:50,280
Speaker 2: them to point them, those sons of guns will get

411
00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:52,680
Speaker 2: to a mesquite. You'll just run till they get to

412
00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:56,399
Speaker 2: mesquite and then they'll flush out the backside. So I

413
00:23:56,480 --> 00:24:00,159
Speaker 2: mean whether pheasants too, I mean you witnessed it with

414
00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:03,119
Speaker 2: like there'll be one eastern red seed and a sea

415
00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:06,639
Speaker 2: of grass and the rooster that you're you know, I

416
00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:11,280
Speaker 2: run pointers, My dog will be point relocate point, and

417
00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:13,960
Speaker 2: I think I'll get to it and that son of

418
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:16,439
Speaker 2: a gun rooster will flush on the back side of

419
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:19,600
Speaker 2: an eastern seed or you know, trying to look around

420
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:23,359
Speaker 2: like you were. So I absolutely believe that's true. They

421
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:27,240
Speaker 2: they know exactly where their escape routes are and they

422
00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:30,640
Speaker 2: put you know, their their one mission in life is

423
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:35,320
Speaker 2: well two missions in life to reproduce and survive. So

424
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:38,920
Speaker 2: they know how to survive. They know that if they

425
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 2: can flush on the other side of evergreen or flush

426
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:45,080
Speaker 2: on the other side of a patch of mesquite, by golly,

427
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:46,119
Speaker 2: they're going to do that.

428
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:48,439
Speaker 1: They're going to do it. I mean that's you know,

429
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:50,800
Speaker 1: you made a joke earlier. But when I was on

430
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:53,119
Speaker 1: the On the Wing podcast and you guys asked me,

431
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:57,520
Speaker 1: you know about deer hunting versus pheasant hunting, and what

432
00:24:57,640 --> 00:24:59,920
Speaker 1: I would give up if I had to give up one,

433
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:04,440
Speaker 1: and I like begrudgingly said that I think I'd give

434
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:08,720
Speaker 1: up the white tails because the pheasant hunting, to me

435
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:12,320
Speaker 1: is my favorite thing that I do every year. Like

436
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:14,840
Speaker 1: I there's I love to hunt lots of different stuff,

437
00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:18,520
Speaker 1: but for myself, when I'm just like, if you were

438
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:21,920
Speaker 1: like you can spend tomorrow doing something that you love,

439
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:24,240
Speaker 1: what's it going to be? I would pick I'm gonna

440
00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:26,520
Speaker 1: unload my dogs and I'm gonna go follow them around

441
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 1: for roosters every freaking time. And one of the reasons

442
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:33,720
Speaker 1: is what you're talking about there where you know, grousel run,

443
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:36,440
Speaker 1: you know, like you mentioned scale coil there, Like there's

444
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:41,160
Speaker 1: these birds have like different methods, right, even a woodcut.

445
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:43,440
Speaker 1: We filmed a woodcock running one time and people are like,

446
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:45,840
Speaker 1: woodcock don't run. I'm like, well that one did. I

447
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 1: don't know. I found one that did, and I'm guessing

448
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 1: he's not the only one. But you know they're not

449
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:53,200
Speaker 1: They're not doing what a rooster's going to do, right.

450
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:57,800
Speaker 1: But my thing with them is there is no question

451
00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:00,480
Speaker 1: in my mind when I go out there that those

452
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:04,159
Speaker 1: birds not only know where I am, but they know

453
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:07,159
Speaker 1: different ways to try to get away from me, and

454
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:11,080
Speaker 1: their last resort is to fly, and so they're like

455
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 1: I just love that. There's like there's like true intention

456
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:16,640
Speaker 1: on their parts, Like I'm gonna hide first, and I'm

457
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:19,560
Speaker 1: gonna try to hide really well and until I run

458
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:22,280
Speaker 1: out of space or you sneak up on me or

459
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:24,480
Speaker 1: I hit that little drainage or something that I don't

460
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:27,919
Speaker 1: want to cross, then they're gonna fly. But they you know,

461
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:30,439
Speaker 1: and when you get them on public land, like I know,

462
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:32,440
Speaker 1: you hunt public land like crazy, we hunt some of

463
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:37,520
Speaker 1: the same stuff. It's like those birds figure out multiple

464
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:41,640
Speaker 1: different ways to make it work and they they get

465
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:44,360
Speaker 1: you a lot, and I just I love, I love

466
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 1: that they're just good at that.

467
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:51,639
Speaker 2: Yeah. You know. The other thing you said is you

468
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 2: brought the dog into the component when you're deciding between

469
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:58,600
Speaker 2: white tails and pheasants, and I totally agree. I think

470
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 2: you said something to that effect of you just nothing

471
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:06,960
Speaker 2: is so rewarding as being able to hunt birds hunt

472
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 2: pheasants with your dog, and you learn so much about

473
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 2: the game, habitat and your dog that relationship. I totally

474
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:21,120
Speaker 2: agree that when you boil it down here, you as

475
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:26,639
Speaker 2: a human being, you're in partnership with a canine, and

476
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:31,000
Speaker 2: you live all year long to create this bond and

477
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:35,159
Speaker 2: to train, and you know, on Saturdays and Sundays you

478
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:37,440
Speaker 2: go out there with the rest of the weekend warriors

479
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:40,919
Speaker 2: to test your metal against these wild birds with your

480
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 2: canine best friend. And you know, unfortunately, our dogs don't

481
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:49,920
Speaker 2: live forever. You know, you have to repeat this process

482
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:55,240
Speaker 2: every ten to fifteen years. And when you strike magic

483
00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 2: at that six to eight year timeframe and it's all working,

484
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:05,440
Speaker 2: there is nothing as sweet when you have a dog

485
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:08,879
Speaker 2: and its prime and you're healthy and it's a beautiful

486
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:15,359
Speaker 2: golden forty degree autumn day and you're just it's like

487
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:18,439
Speaker 2: a symphony. You know, you and your bird dog hunting

488
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:21,119
Speaker 2: the cover in search of these birds. And you know,

489
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:24,480
Speaker 2: in many places, unlike deer hunting, you know, it's not

490
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:27,720
Speaker 2: one and done right, you can achieve that success, Like,

491
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 2: let's go get it again, buddy.

492
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:33,040
Speaker 1: That was awesome, right, I mean, And so you brought

493
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:37,679
Speaker 1: up something there that I think is like, so we

494
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:39,959
Speaker 1: all talk about like the teamwork aspect, right, Like you're

495
00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 1: you're working with your dogs, like I mean, you're running pointers,

496
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 1: I'm running flushers. Your dogs are going out and doing

497
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 1: their job. You're doing your job coming up there, and

498
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:50,440
Speaker 1: it's like a back and forth thing, but you're still

499
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:54,720
Speaker 1: working together, you know, on my side of things with flushers,

500
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 1: like the eye contact, the like the back and forth

501
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 1: like that, everything is like there is you're you're almost

502
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 1: continually reminded whether your dog's working with you or against

503
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 1: you or like I shouldn't say that working with you

504
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 1: or for themselves for themselves, right, And so you know

505
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 1: we I cover a lot of training stuff on here,

506
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:18,160
Speaker 1: just inter interview Josh Miller a great trainer. People are

507
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:21,520
Speaker 1: always like, you know, I want a really well trained

508
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 1: dog that's a bad aass hunter. It's like, yeah, everybody does,

509
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 1: but that that development of that team work aspect, which

510
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 1: is why you know, like guys like Doc and like

511
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 1: Doc and and some of these other guys talk a

512
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:35,280
Speaker 1: lot about established at eye contact right away, get that

513
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:39,239
Speaker 1: puppy like to look to you, and then they like

514
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 1: they'll return that favor eventually. And you start that young

515
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 1: enough and there's no like replace there's like no training

516
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 1: replacement for that last part, right Like it's more time

517
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 1: in the field. And you know, you see this a

518
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 1: lot with people who just don't either don't have the

519
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 1: time to hunt with them as much, you know, don't

520
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:00,520
Speaker 1: really you know, like I know, you hunt everything you

521
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 1: can with your dogs, which I think is crazy important. Right,

522
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 1: Like I'm gonna I'm taking my dogs this weekend. We're

523
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 1: gonna hunt some grouse, we're gonna hunt wood cock, and

524
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 1: we're gonna hut some ducks in between some deer. And

525
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:14,239
Speaker 1: you know it's not it's gonna be short stuff, right,

526
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:17,400
Speaker 1: like an hour or two here there. But all of

527
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 1: that time with those dogs, especially if you're running a

528
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:23,800
Speaker 1: young dog, you start to build up that rapport with

529
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:25,760
Speaker 1: them and so not we kind of look at it

530
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 1: like they're that tool, right I'm gonna take them to

531
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 1: South Dakota and they're gonna flush a limit for me

532
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna kill it for three days in a

533
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 1: row with my buddies. I'm like, that's great. But the

534
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:35,720
Speaker 1: more that you do with them, no matter what, just

535
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 1: like the shed dog thing and everything, is you start

536
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 1: to read that dog with that's Doug starts to read

537
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 1: you too, and so you start to get to that

538
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:45,080
Speaker 1: point where it's like you can see this if you

539
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 1: hunt with people long enough, like if you have really

540
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:50,280
Speaker 1: good hunting buddies, you don't have to talk anymore. Like

541
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 1: I've got a couple buddies. We'll wade into a slew together,

542
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 1: and we kind of hunt independently a lot of times,

543
00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 1: like they'll take one side, I'll take the other. But

544
00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:59,280
Speaker 1: you don't have to We don't have to whistle back

545
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:01,840
Speaker 1: and forth. If I see my buddy hustling up here

546
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:03,840
Speaker 1: or going down this point or whatever, I'm like, I

547
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 1: know what he's doing. And it's like a it's just

548
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 1: like this fluid thing. And like you said, when you

549
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:11,800
Speaker 1: get a dog with enough reps under its belt and

550
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 1: then you go out there and there of the right

551
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:16,320
Speaker 1: age where this is like fifth, sixth, seventh season whatever,

552
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 1: and it's like just like automatic man, there's nothing better.

553
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:24,479
Speaker 1: And I always tell people that, like, you know, I know,

554
00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:26,160
Speaker 1: you hunt a lot of the cattail slew stuff that

555
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 1: I do. You do a lot of late season stuff.

556
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 1: To me, when I get a prime age dog, which

557
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 1: my old dog has aged out and my young dog's

558
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 1: four now, so's she's bumping right up on it, I

559
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:41,760
Speaker 1: can walk into a cattail slew in December and I

560
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:45,240
Speaker 1: don't have a plan in mind. I'm just like, I'm

561
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 1: just gonna follow you, and if I'm hunting by myself,

562
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:50,120
Speaker 1: I can let that dog just dictate the pace. You

563
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:51,960
Speaker 1: go where you need to, you smell where you need

564
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 1: to be, cause they're gonna work into the wind, they're

565
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:56,240
Speaker 1: going to do certain things, and you're like, I'm literally

566
00:31:56,320 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 1: just like now you drive right, and it's like there's

567
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:03,400
Speaker 1: nothing freaking better because then you're not, you know, because

568
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 1: then you're not like, oh, you gotta get over here,

569
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:07,360
Speaker 1: you gotta do this or whatever, like you're not. You're

570
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 1: just like this is like a flow state thing. And man,

571
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:10,360
Speaker 1: it's freaking sweet.

572
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:15,880
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, nothing drives me crazy more than somebody oversteering

573
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:18,760
Speaker 2: their dog in the field. You know. It's like yelling

574
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 2: every hundred yards come over here, like ah, you just

575
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 2: want to go hunt alone and follow the dog. It's

576
00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:29,720
Speaker 2: funny because you know, recently, I was hunting with Billy

577
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:32,520
Speaker 2: Captain Billy, the guy do k Fan radio with in

578
00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 2: the Twin Cities, and he's pretty much just you'r died

579
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:40,000
Speaker 2: in the wool, hardcore pesant hunter and I was running

580
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:44,240
Speaker 2: my one year old short hair and she ran through

581
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 2: some pheasants, just blew them up, and he and he's giggling,

582
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 2: and he looked at me. He's like, you think it's

583
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:53,240
Speaker 2: hard on that pupp that you keep changing the bird

584
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 2: she's chasing, Like, yeah, it is. She's one years old.

585
00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 2: Last weekend we were hunting woodcock, and in the week

586
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:03,720
Speaker 2: before that it was sharp tales, and now we're hunting

587
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:07,000
Speaker 2: pheasants and you know, she's one year old and she's

588
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:07,959
Speaker 2: blowing things up.

589
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 3: And I was like, yeah, I'm sorry about that, but yeah,

590
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 3: it's gonna be It's gonna be like that for a

591
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:18,680
Speaker 3: little while, but eventually that versatility is gonna pay off.

592
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 2: She's gonna be able to read the cover, she's gonna

593
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:27,000
Speaker 2: be able to ascertain the different species that I'm putting

594
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 2: her on, and you know, yeah, there's gonna be some

595
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 2: some pickup, you know, some some hurdles, some potholes, but

596
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:37,840
Speaker 2: in the long run, she's gonna be a more well

597
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 2: rounded dog. And uh, you know what, she has four

598
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 2: five six in the prime of her years. No matter

599
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 2: what kind of cover I put her on, I think, uh,

600
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 2: you know, based on my experience, I'm gonna have a

601
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:54,480
Speaker 2: you know, a well trained dog on any versus variety

602
00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:56,080
Speaker 2: of upland birds.

603
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:59,240
Speaker 1: Right, and a one year old dog making a mistake

604
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 1: out there like that. I was, I'm taking my kids.

605
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 1: Has taught me a lot. Training dogs has taught me

606
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:09,560
Speaker 1: a lot. Me Being sort of a dumb ass has

607
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:12,920
Speaker 1: taught me a lot. Like I think about that stuff.

608
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:16,440
Speaker 1: So you think about that, and you haunt a lot.

609
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:18,279
Speaker 1: So you look at that and you go, that's a

610
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:20,840
Speaker 1: mistake whatever, like. It would have been better if she

611
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:23,240
Speaker 1: had picked up those birds and locked on point. She didn't.

612
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:30,040
Speaker 1: It's a mistake. Right. Where that stuff gets a little

613
00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:32,160
Speaker 1: bit gnarly is when we like put too high of

614
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:34,880
Speaker 1: expectations on it and we put too much weight on that.

615
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:36,960
Speaker 1: And that's so this goes back to you know, you

616
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:40,880
Speaker 1: talking about you'll woodcock hunt, grouse hunt whatever like, whatever

617
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 1: whatever there is, you'll hunt it with that dog. That

618
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:45,400
Speaker 1: dog's going to get those contacts. That dog's going to

619
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:47,400
Speaker 1: learn to work with you in different environments. It's going

620
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:49,480
Speaker 1: to have that been there, done that mentality. It's going

621
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:52,919
Speaker 1: to get there. You take somebody else who maybe only

622
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 1: gets three days or five days to hunt South Dakota

623
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:57,279
Speaker 1: and they go out and that that dog blows through

624
00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:00,759
Speaker 1: that group of pheasants looking for something else and you know,

625
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:03,160
Speaker 1: it's seventy five yards beyond where you could shoot with

626
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:07,320
Speaker 1: your shotgun and then you light that dog up or whatever.

627
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:10,800
Speaker 1: I always think about that stuff, and I'm like, Okay,

628
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:13,600
Speaker 1: the mistake was made. Why why? Like why did that dog?

629
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:16,120
Speaker 1: You say in your case, that dog's young, right, it's excited,

630
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:18,920
Speaker 1: it's been whatever. Like it's just it hasn't had a

631
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:23,359
Speaker 1: million pheasant contacts yet to know that thing hasn't slowed down,

632
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:26,120
Speaker 1: hasn't hit the governor yet, whatever, And so I always

633
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 1: look at that and I go, it's just what happens, right,

634
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 1: So what happened to have that mistake made? Because like

635
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:36,440
Speaker 1: I think about that, you know, every single season I

636
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 1: go out there my dog, I'll get birdie and a

637
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:39,640
Speaker 1: rooster will get up right in front of me and

638
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:42,160
Speaker 1: fly away, and I'll I'll empty both barrels and that

639
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:47,279
Speaker 1: bird will be fine. And I'm like, what was that mistake? Right?

640
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:47,759
Speaker 3: Like?

641
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:49,920
Speaker 1: What was that? Like I will never forget when I

642
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:52,399
Speaker 1: took when I took Sadie my pop on her first

643
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:55,440
Speaker 1: pheasant hunt. So Luna was still hunting then, and I

644
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:57,000
Speaker 1: was like, man, I would just like to get one

645
00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:00,520
Speaker 1: good flush with her kill a bird and I'll consider

646
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 1: it a huge success. Right, we walked into this slough

647
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:08,720
Speaker 1: that I love in western Minnesota. She flushed a rooster

648
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:11,359
Speaker 1: like twenty minutes into it, and that sucker, I knew

649
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:13,760
Speaker 1: it was common that sucker got up flew straight away

650
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:17,319
Speaker 1: and I missed with both barrels, and I was like,

651
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:21,840
Speaker 1: not super happy with myself. Went a little bit farther,

652
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:23,920
Speaker 1: flushed another rooster, and I did one of those things

653
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:25,320
Speaker 1: where I hit it and it went out into the

654
00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 1: middle of the slow and went straight up and then

655
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 1: fluttered down. And so we got in there and it

656
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:33,160
Speaker 1: was wet and chaos and there was birds getting up everywhere.

657
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:36,080
Speaker 1: And I think about that, and I go I walked

658
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:39,279
Speaker 1: into that slough thinking like, this dog's gonna screw up.

659
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:41,880
Speaker 1: This dog's gonna make the mistakes, and me, who's been

660
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:44,680
Speaker 1: fezant hunting since I was eleven, made two big, bad

661
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 1: mistakes right off the bat. And so I always look

662
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:48,759
Speaker 1: at that when you when you have a young dog

663
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 1: like that, or even an older dog, right, it's like

664
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:54,040
Speaker 1: why what happened? So if you have a dog that's

665
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:58,080
Speaker 1: burning through those birds at one whatever, it's gonna learn

666
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:00,359
Speaker 1: like you're gonna get there's there's nothing you don't want

667
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:02,520
Speaker 1: to punish that dog for that. If you have a

668
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:05,720
Speaker 1: dog that's still doing that at five, you made a mistake.

669
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 1: So now so now why like why is that dog?

670
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:10,000
Speaker 1: Is it not getting the contacts? Well, maybe you should,

671
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:12,120
Speaker 1: maybe you should try to dial into that woodcock migration

672
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:14,759
Speaker 1: at home, even though you love pheasants or you know,

673
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:18,319
Speaker 1: doves or whatever, like just there's there's a reason for

674
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:21,920
Speaker 1: that stuff, and it's usually our fault. But it's like, yeah,

675
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:24,200
Speaker 1: it's easy to offshore that blame pretty quick on a

676
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:26,440
Speaker 1: dog because that dog can't really talk back, you know.

677
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:31,760
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you think about you know, the whatever ten hours,

678
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:35,320
Speaker 2: fifteen hours, you know, drive that you made to South Dakota,

679
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:38,200
Speaker 2: a couple grand you spend, you know, the buddy that's

680
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:41,200
Speaker 2: watching over your shoulder, and you know, your dog goes

681
00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:45,040
Speaker 2: in and blows everything up, Like you know, it's it's

682
00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 2: easy to see how you put the pressure on your

683
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:51,440
Speaker 2: dog because you get the pressure on yourself, you know,

684
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:55,880
Speaker 2: and to your point, like you gotta take a step

685
00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:59,200
Speaker 2: back and okay, you're gonna know you're gonna have pressure

686
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:03,360
Speaker 2: on that South Dakota trip, Like spend a couple hundred

687
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:06,000
Speaker 2: bucks go to the game farm then like get your

688
00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:08,680
Speaker 2: dog dialed in. You know, it's not the same thing,

689
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:11,680
Speaker 2: but you know it's practice, you know, like al and

690
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:14,880
Speaker 2: I Evers said, talk about practice. It helps. You know,

691
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 2: it's not the game, but it but it helps. It

692
00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:23,480
Speaker 2: creates a little bit of extra rapport between you and

693
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:27,719
Speaker 2: your dog before it is showtime. And that can be

694
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:33,040
Speaker 2: a very beneficial component, even if it's just to build

695
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:35,560
Speaker 2: your own confidence in your dog and yourself.

696
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:38,759
Speaker 1: Well, and I know you do this too, and I'm

697
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:42,680
Speaker 1: a I have become like a huge proponent of hunting

698
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:46,000
Speaker 1: by myself with my dogs a lot, especially when they're younger.

699
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:48,839
Speaker 1: And I always think about this. One of the first

700
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:52,359
Speaker 1: hunting white tail hunting shows I ever filmed was a

701
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:56,120
Speaker 1: guided deal down in Illinois, and you know, I was

702
00:38:56,160 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 1: contracted through bow Hunter went down there and there were

703
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:02,719
Speaker 1: fifteen guys in camp. So there are four of us

704
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:05,240
Speaker 1: for this kind of media hunt thing, and then eleven

705
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:08,759
Speaker 1: dudes from New York who were on this you know

706
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:14,040
Speaker 1: big deer paid hunt in I think it was in

707
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:17,400
Speaker 1: Pike County, but one of the premier whitetail counties. Whatever,

708
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:23,120
Speaker 1: the weather was tough, the hunting was tough, but people

709
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:27,959
Speaker 1: were getting some opportunities. And I remember one guy came

710
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:32,560
Speaker 1: back and his arrow was muddy, like twelve yards down

711
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:35,480
Speaker 1: the shaft right, and he said he was walking in

712
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:37,520
Speaker 1: and he had an arrow knocked and he slipped and

713
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:40,160
Speaker 1: pushed the arrow into the ground. And I was like,

714
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:44,160
Speaker 1: that's bullshit. You missed one, and you don't want to

715
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:48,440
Speaker 1: talk about it, right, And I remember thinking like, like, Okay,

716
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:53,319
Speaker 1: there's there's like a vast array of experience here just

717
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:55,719
Speaker 1: in this group of fifteen people. Some people have been

718
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:57,799
Speaker 1: bow hunting all over the world. Some people are like

719
00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 1: this is like their kind of first time. But the

720
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:05,800
Speaker 1: ego aspect of being around a bunch of people, where

721
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:07,719
Speaker 1: like the expectation is you paid a whole bunch of

722
00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:12,080
Speaker 1: money and you want that success bad. That's immediately going

723
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:14,920
Speaker 1: to have you making more mistakes because of that pressure thing.

724
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:17,239
Speaker 1: And when you think about that with bird hunting, if

725
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:20,440
Speaker 1: if you take that pup that's a year old whatever,

726
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:22,680
Speaker 1: two years old, that doesn't have a lot of experience,

727
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:24,400
Speaker 1: and you're like, we're going to go to South Dakota

728
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:27,000
Speaker 1: do this gang hunt. You know, bring eight of my

729
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:29,719
Speaker 1: buddies and everybody has dogs, and you're going to throw

730
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:33,000
Speaker 1: that dog into the mix. You know, maybe maybe it

731
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:36,839
Speaker 1: can shrug off those distractions. Probably not, but that dog

732
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:39,160
Speaker 1: would be so much better prepared for that, and you'd

733
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:43,320
Speaker 1: be more prepared for handling your dog with some solo

734
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:45,560
Speaker 1: time with them to let them figure it out, because

735
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:47,480
Speaker 1: then you don't have the ego involve you're not trying

736
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:50,520
Speaker 1: to get ahead of your buddy. The other dogs aren't

737
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:53,680
Speaker 1: getting into the mix. And it's like, to me, it's

738
00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:56,920
Speaker 1: the best way to get those dogs to relax and

739
00:40:57,040 --> 00:41:01,520
Speaker 1: understand their job and not constantly be distracted by something else.

740
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:04,279
Speaker 1: And I know you know this, but like when I

741
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:06,839
Speaker 1: go do those hunts and it's like a low it's

742
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:12,160
Speaker 1: like a calm, low pressure thing. I shoot way better, typically,

743
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:17,400
Speaker 1: way better, and you know, and we have better recoveries

744
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 1: if you knock one down because you don't have you know,

745
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:22,319
Speaker 1: through your body's like, let's get moving, we're not going

746
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:24,080
Speaker 1: to find it. It must have run away. Like you can

747
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:26,640
Speaker 1: work through that process, that hunt dead process with them

748
00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:30,240
Speaker 1: or whatever whatever your command is. I just don't think

749
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:34,240
Speaker 1: they I think the value of that is like incredible

750
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:36,880
Speaker 1: when you're developing a dog, Yeah.

751
00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:39,560
Speaker 2: I totally agree that, you know you talked about earlier

752
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:43,200
Speaker 2: that eye contact. You know, if if you're hunting alone,

753
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:45,920
Speaker 2: you can build the eye contact with the dog and

754
00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:48,480
Speaker 2: your dog can key in on you. If you're hunting

755
00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:51,960
Speaker 2: with twelve other people, you know, and and then god forbid,

756
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 2: it's a mismash of experience levels and dogs and people

757
00:41:57,280 --> 00:42:00,200
Speaker 2: yet flushers and pointers running together. If you try kind

758
00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:02,640
Speaker 2: of steady up a dog and there's a flusher you know,

759
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:07,000
Speaker 2: coming in and crowding that point and flushing the bird,

760
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:09,440
Speaker 2: it's like, oh my gosh, it's just And I've had

761
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:13,120
Speaker 2: to participate in those from media perspectives for my job,

762
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:17,839
Speaker 2: and it's like I have known to just go on

763
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:22,000
Speaker 2: to walk about, you know, just wander off because you know,

764
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:25,879
Speaker 2: you spend so much time, uh, you know, dialing in

765
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:28,759
Speaker 2: a pup, particularly if it's a pup you're trying to

766
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:33,160
Speaker 2: get steady to wing and shot as a pointer. You know,

767
00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:37,479
Speaker 2: somebody who doesn't have real good control their their dog

768
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:43,320
Speaker 2: and yo comes in and flushes your your your bird

769
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:47,120
Speaker 2: that the pointer is pointing, and then all of a sudden,

770
00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:49,879
Speaker 2: it just deteriorates a lot of training that you've been

771
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:52,400
Speaker 2: putting in on that dog, and it's a to be

772
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:56,759
Speaker 2: a really frustrating situation. So when possible, like you say,

773
00:42:56,840 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 2: from a relaxation perspective, I I definitely did it here

774
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:08,799
Speaker 2: to go hunt by myself, hunt quiet, enjoy the experience

775
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:12,760
Speaker 2: and just you know, I'll have way better success.

776
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:15,520
Speaker 1: Right well, and the hunt quiet thing is important too,

777
00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:19,279
Speaker 1: Like I mean, I have a really good buddy, h

778
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:23,520
Speaker 1: He's into goldens. He's always had golden travers. And we

779
00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:26,200
Speaker 1: used to do a lot of late season grouse hunting,

780
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:28,840
Speaker 1: you know, especially back when Wisconsin. Wisconsin used to have

781
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:31,000
Speaker 1: a season that was stayed open through January. They closed

782
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:33,840
Speaker 1: it down several years ago, but that was like, it

783
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:35,600
Speaker 1: was like such a great opportunity. We used to go

784
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:38,440
Speaker 1: up for two weekends, long weekends and hunt a milk

785
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:41,080
Speaker 1: rum a public land. Never saw another hunter like it was.

786
00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:42,200
Speaker 1: It was freaking great.

787
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:43,200
Speaker 2: It was great.

788
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:45,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I miss it all.

789
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 2: I miss it bad I because it's in the last

790
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:52,040
Speaker 2: maybe two years before they shut that down, there was

791
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:56,400
Speaker 2: just very little snow and I had them dialed in. Man,

792
00:43:56,560 --> 00:43:59,880
Speaker 2: it was so awesome. And then they canceled that over. So,

793
00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:04,880
Speaker 2: you know, fear mongering around the West Nile virus is like, oh.

794
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:09,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, well yeah, that was a really good lesson. Kind

795
00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 1: of goes back to what we were talking about at

796
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:15,200
Speaker 1: the beginning when they were kicking that around. What they

797
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:17,960
Speaker 1: did that as like a it was like optics, right,

798
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:19,760
Speaker 1: it was like a pr move to like we're doing

799
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:22,800
Speaker 1: something we're going to take away this month that almost

800
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:25,920
Speaker 1: nobody participates in. Like if you go on it, you

801
00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:28,960
Speaker 1: see that there's just like in January, there aren't a

802
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:31,879
Speaker 1: lot of people out there, but they could show they

803
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:36,920
Speaker 1: were doing something. And when when you're facing an opportunity

804
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:41,520
Speaker 1: being taken away on the on the like the reasoning

805
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:43,719
Speaker 1: of the you know, the population is not doing that well,

806
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:48,000
Speaker 1: so we're doing this for the resource. There usually isn't

807
00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:50,319
Speaker 1: a clear cut case to bring it back, so it's

808
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:53,480
Speaker 1: usually like we're going to take this away. Like Minnesota

809
00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:56,080
Speaker 1: moose was another example of this. Right, Like when I

810
00:44:56,120 --> 00:44:57,759
Speaker 1: was growing up, you could draw a once in a

811
00:44:57,760 --> 00:45:02,000
Speaker 1: lifetime moose tag and that like a big deal. When

812
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:04,440
Speaker 1: they were when that population started going down and they

813
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:05,880
Speaker 1: were talking about how they were going to maybe like

814
00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:07,839
Speaker 1: suspend the season, I was like, if this goes away,

815
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:10,280
Speaker 1: we will never hunt moose again. And it's been true

816
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:13,360
Speaker 1: since then, and I don't see that coming back, that

817
00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:16,960
Speaker 1: Wisconsin grouse season. I was like, what if the population

818
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:18,799
Speaker 1: comes back, are we going to get this back? And

819
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:21,680
Speaker 1: we never will probably, and you know we have, it's

820
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:24,160
Speaker 1: been gone for several years now, and so I always

821
00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:26,359
Speaker 1: look at that when we you know, like we were

822
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:28,920
Speaker 1: big into the resident non resident fights and all that

823
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:31,279
Speaker 1: shit that's going on and the state going to a

824
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:34,440
Speaker 1: draw and and you know, over the countertag is going away,

825
00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:37,160
Speaker 1: and I'm like, you guys, gotta be careful what you

826
00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:40,600
Speaker 1: wish for, because if you if you're comfortable taking away

827
00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:45,120
Speaker 1: my opportunity because I live across state lines, your next

828
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:48,040
Speaker 1: like something that you love could go away and it

829
00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:51,120
Speaker 1: will not come back. And so you see this a lot.

830
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:53,640
Speaker 1: There's like a lot of myopic views. You know, we

831
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:55,640
Speaker 1: look at like in the dear world, people look at

832
00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:59,319
Speaker 1: it like my farm is this They do this on

833
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:02,080
Speaker 1: my farm, and you don't. It's hard to like think

834
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:05,000
Speaker 1: about it in a grand like a whole state or

835
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:08,439
Speaker 1: even like a whole region type of thing. But that's

836
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:11,759
Speaker 1: what they have to manage to. And so when you're like, well,

837
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:14,040
Speaker 1: I don't care if they take away trail cameras on

838
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:17,239
Speaker 1: public land because I don't hunt public land. And it's like, okay, well,

839
00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:20,200
Speaker 1: if they're not fair chase here, they might not be

840
00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:22,759
Speaker 1: on in private land in five years, you know, like

841
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:24,799
Speaker 1: if you're like, this thing could go away and I

842
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:27,399
Speaker 1: don't care. I think we just have to be super

843
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:29,560
Speaker 1: careful about that. And you see that with stuff like that.

844
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:34,000
Speaker 1: That Wisconsin late season grouse hut was freaking awesome, Like

845
00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:37,160
Speaker 1: that was such a cool experience and it hasn't been

846
00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:39,799
Speaker 1: replaced by anything, and it's not coming back, and it's like,

847
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:42,560
Speaker 1: I don't know, there's a shitload of grouse over there again?

848
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:43,480
Speaker 1: Can we have it?

849
00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:48,440
Speaker 2: There is? And it relates back to let science lead

850
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:51,440
Speaker 2: the way, you know, if it is truly you know,

851
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:56,439
Speaker 2: a disease, and let's figure that out. Let's not make

852
00:46:56,480 --> 00:47:01,240
Speaker 2: a one year blip be the cause for ending opportunity.

853
00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:04,160
Speaker 2: And as it turns out, you know, like you said,

854
00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:08,560
Speaker 2: Wisconsin's grouse numbers have surged back up, you know, and

855
00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:12,600
Speaker 2: it might be more complicated then, you know. I remember

856
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:14,960
Speaker 2: the news story is one of the commissioners and was

857
00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:18,320
Speaker 2: Konds saying, oh, yeah, just only people out there, people

858
00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:21,000
Speaker 2: driving around shooting them out of trees as they're eating

859
00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:24,760
Speaker 2: buds and in the evenings like, that's not what I'm doing.

860
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:28,480
Speaker 2: I you know, coming over every weekend because it's the

861
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:32,120
Speaker 2: only thing around here that's open. And if you put

862
00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:34,480
Speaker 2: in the time and you bust your butt because when

863
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:38,359
Speaker 2: there is snow, that's a hard ass hunt, but it

864
00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:41,720
Speaker 2: is so rewarding when you get that you know, great

865
00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:46,680
Speaker 2: big heavy plumage rough grouse, you know, on January tenth,

866
00:47:46,719 --> 00:47:51,440
Speaker 2: it's like, heck, yeah, I did this. That was amazing. Then,

867
00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:54,600
Speaker 2: like you said, at opportunities gone and it's probably not

868
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:55,759
Speaker 2: coming back, right.

869
00:47:56,719 --> 00:47:59,200
Speaker 1: I totally got off track there. My buddy who has

870
00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:02,920
Speaker 1: the goldens, when we used to see that hunt, uh,

871
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:06,440
Speaker 1: he would have to yell at them a lot. And

872
00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:12,320
Speaker 1: you'd be in the north woods. That's like pin drop quiet,

873
00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:14,080
Speaker 1: you know, because a lot of times it's not very

874
00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:17,239
Speaker 1: windy that time of year. You have that snow, and

875
00:48:17,280 --> 00:48:19,680
Speaker 1: so it's like a different You walk into that environment

876
00:48:19,719 --> 00:48:23,799
Speaker 1: and is like just a it's like a recording booth

877
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:26,960
Speaker 1: or something almost. It's it's amazing. And he would be

878
00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:30,400
Speaker 1: pretty loud with his dogs, and so you'd find spots

879
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:32,160
Speaker 1: where those grouse picked up the pace and then they

880
00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:36,000
Speaker 1: flew off ahead of you. And you see that mentality

881
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:38,520
Speaker 1: with pheasant hunting a lot because people are used to

882
00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:41,120
Speaker 1: hunting with buddies, and I think they kind of look

883
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:43,080
Speaker 1: at it and go, we can't really be quiet when

884
00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:44,600
Speaker 1: there's five of us getting out of the trucks and

885
00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:46,720
Speaker 1: letting the dogs out. Everybody's got a whistle and everybody's

886
00:48:46,719 --> 00:48:50,279
Speaker 1: doing that. But I'm like, the more lead time you

887
00:48:50,360 --> 00:48:54,279
Speaker 1: give those roosters, like that's I mean, I'm convinced that's

888
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:56,800
Speaker 1: why people think that public land like late season public

889
00:48:56,840 --> 00:49:00,319
Speaker 1: land birds are so hard to hunt. And it's like, well, yeah,

890
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:03,279
Speaker 1: if you make your presence known and you know, in

891
00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:05,240
Speaker 1: some situations you just make a lot of noise anyway,

892
00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:07,160
Speaker 1: So you got to figure out where you like, where

893
00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:08,799
Speaker 1: you're going to hit that little edge or something we

894
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:10,480
Speaker 1: were talking about where they're going to hold up or

895
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:13,120
Speaker 1: like how are you going to work that? But the

896
00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:16,799
Speaker 1: more noise you're making out there, just like you're not

897
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:19,600
Speaker 1: helping yourself at all. Like you just got to try

898
00:49:19,640 --> 00:49:23,239
Speaker 1: to be quieter. And I think that I think the

899
00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:24,839
Speaker 1: dogs feed off of that. You know, we know our

900
00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:27,399
Speaker 1: dogs feed off of our energy, like they can read

901
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:30,160
Speaker 1: us pretty well and if a bunch of people are

902
00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:33,040
Speaker 1: out there being loud, making noise, it's just another distraction thing.

903
00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:34,879
Speaker 1: So not only are the birds like just a little

904
00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:37,040
Speaker 1: more keyed in, but your dog's a little less keyed

905
00:49:37,080 --> 00:49:40,239
Speaker 1: in a lot of times. And it's like a negative due.

906
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:43,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, you know, it's well known. Like the

907
00:49:43,719 --> 00:49:48,040
Speaker 2: first snow of the season is a day you call in.

908
00:49:48,239 --> 00:49:50,359
Speaker 2: If you live in pheasant country, you call in sick

909
00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:54,120
Speaker 2: that day and you go hunt because it just makes

910
00:49:54,320 --> 00:49:57,759
Speaker 2: pheasants just dumb. But another great day to call in

911
00:49:57,880 --> 00:50:01,719
Speaker 2: sick is those late seasons days when you get like

912
00:50:01,760 --> 00:50:05,440
Speaker 2: that three inches of just fresh, fluffy powder. To your

913
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:10,160
Speaker 2: exact point about being quiet, it just muffles every sound

914
00:50:10,200 --> 00:50:12,560
Speaker 2: that you and your dog make. And you know, here

915
00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:15,320
Speaker 2: are these birds that have been surviving for three months

916
00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:20,720
Speaker 2: because they can hear you approaching on crusty cattails and ice,

917
00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:24,040
Speaker 2: and all of a sudden there's three inches of powder

918
00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:26,319
Speaker 2: and you can sneak up on them and get right

919
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:29,640
Speaker 2: in there, and oh gosh, if it's a little bit

920
00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:32,000
Speaker 2: of you know, not a whole lot of wind in

921
00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:36,680
Speaker 2: a nice bright sun, it's one of the best hunting

922
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:38,839
Speaker 2: days of the year to be out so good.

923
00:50:39,080 --> 00:50:43,520
Speaker 1: We had we had that ah Man. Maybe four years ago.

924
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:46,319
Speaker 1: I was down I was I was hunting western Minnesota

925
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:50,440
Speaker 1: and we got that dreamy like three four inches of powder.

926
00:50:51,239 --> 00:50:53,440
Speaker 1: I was hunting Soloh. My buddies had been there till

927
00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:56,200
Speaker 1: the night before they left. And I went out in

928
00:50:56,280 --> 00:51:00,440
Speaker 1: this spot in Minnesota. I like ran across the tracks

929
00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:03,640
Speaker 1: going into the saloo, right off the bat dogs flushed

930
00:51:03,640 --> 00:51:06,560
Speaker 1: it up, killed it one shot, went a little bit farther,

931
00:51:06,760 --> 00:51:09,200
Speaker 1: dogs put up two roosters. I killed them both. So

932
00:51:09,239 --> 00:51:11,200
Speaker 1: I was like twenty minutes into it. I got my limit,

933
00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:12,960
Speaker 1: took them back to the hotel, cleaned them. And I

934
00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:16,400
Speaker 1: had my Iowa license that year, drove down to Iowa

935
00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:19,360
Speaker 1: and just picked out a couple spots on on X

936
00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:22,640
Speaker 1: went out there and they flushed two roosters in the

937
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:25,800
Speaker 1: in the remainder of the day. And so I shot

938
00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:28,760
Speaker 1: five times that day and killed five public land roosters

939
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:31,960
Speaker 1: with a flusher, And I was like, it was the

940
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:35,440
Speaker 1: best freaking hunting, like the best conditions, And it was

941
00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:39,560
Speaker 1: exactly what you're talking about there that shit, and you know,

942
00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:41,480
Speaker 1: and on top of that, and not only is that

943
00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:44,640
Speaker 1: just like fun, because that's that's the easiest time to

944
00:51:44,719 --> 00:51:46,640
Speaker 1: kill them. Like they're going to just sit tight and

945
00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:49,319
Speaker 1: it's just like a special like you don't you don't

946
00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:52,960
Speaker 1: get it very often. But also that I think that

947
00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:56,160
Speaker 1: was Sadie's first season or second season. So when you

948
00:51:56,160 --> 00:51:59,799
Speaker 1: can put dogs in that situation where those roosters are like,

949
00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:03,239
Speaker 1: I'm not running today and I'm going to hide in

950
00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:06,000
Speaker 1: this you know, twenty yard wide strip of cattails around

951
00:52:06,040 --> 00:52:09,920
Speaker 1: the lake or whatever, those young dogs, the contacts they get,

952
00:52:10,080 --> 00:52:12,160
Speaker 1: you know, not only just the roosters, but the hens too.

953
00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:15,400
Speaker 1: It's like, man, you can't hardly beat it because they

954
00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:17,839
Speaker 1: don't have to. They're not like figuring something out right,

955
00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:20,480
Speaker 1: Like they're like, I smell him, he's right here now

956
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:22,640
Speaker 1: he gets up in front of the gun. Those days

957
00:52:22,680 --> 00:52:23,759
Speaker 1: are so valuable.

958
00:52:24,640 --> 00:52:27,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know when there is that fresh snow and

959
00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:31,680
Speaker 2: your dogs are in the mix on those birds because

960
00:52:31,719 --> 00:52:33,640
Speaker 2: they you know, maybe have left a little bit of

961
00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:38,880
Speaker 2: scent with tracks in that powder and they get those contacts.

962
00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:41,799
Speaker 2: It's just priceless and it's a lot of fun too.

963
00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:46,120
Speaker 1: Oh it's the best. Man. Let's let's we're about done

964
00:52:46,160 --> 00:52:49,040
Speaker 1: with this. Let's tie this up and talk a little

965
00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:52,000
Speaker 1: bit about the work on the ground that Pheasants Forever does.

966
00:52:53,640 --> 00:52:55,719
Speaker 1: How can people help? How can people pay attention to

967
00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:58,440
Speaker 1: this stuff? I know, I know you guys are always

968
00:52:58,480 --> 00:53:00,799
Speaker 1: asking people to reach out about farms and things like that.

969
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:02,600
Speaker 1: What do we have going on right now that people

970
00:53:02,600 --> 00:53:04,480
Speaker 1: listening could maybe help out with some pheasants?

971
00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:09,799
Speaker 2: Yeah? Right, so pheasants and quail, right, Pheasants forever and

972
00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:13,160
Speaker 2: quail forever. So when you think about the uplands, we

973
00:53:13,239 --> 00:53:16,680
Speaker 2: get an organization that represents the entire country, from the

974
00:53:16,760 --> 00:53:20,440
Speaker 2: quail range of the southeast bobboy quail, to the desert

975
00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:24,120
Speaker 2: species of the southwest, the mountain quail out in the

976
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:28,400
Speaker 2: Pacific Northwest, and then obviously pheasants across the bread basket

977
00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:31,520
Speaker 2: of the country. Right now, we need a farm bill,

978
00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:34,719
Speaker 2: you know, we're we're been limping along like one year

979
00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:38,520
Speaker 2: extensions of the farm bill. And as we touched on

980
00:53:38,680 --> 00:53:44,600
Speaker 2: earlier in this conversation, CRP and pheasants in particular, but

981
00:53:44,719 --> 00:53:48,200
Speaker 2: our other you know, sharp tails, bob boyds, you name.

982
00:53:48,239 --> 00:53:51,160
Speaker 2: It really depend on the habitat that's in the farm bill,

983
00:53:51,680 --> 00:53:55,200
Speaker 2: and CRP is super vulnerable right now. We need we

984
00:53:55,239 --> 00:53:59,319
Speaker 2: need reauthorization and we need it before the end of

985
00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:02,719
Speaker 2: the year. Uh So, number one thing is to contact

986
00:54:02,719 --> 00:54:07,279
Speaker 2: your elected officials, whether that's your US Senator or one

987
00:54:07,280 --> 00:54:10,120
Speaker 2: of your two US senators, or your US representative and

988
00:54:10,200 --> 00:54:12,920
Speaker 2: let them know you want a new farm bill and

989
00:54:12,960 --> 00:54:17,000
Speaker 2: you want CRP strengthened in that farm bill. That's, you know,

990
00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:20,920
Speaker 2: number one thing. Now, the number two thing is most people,

991
00:54:21,640 --> 00:54:25,560
Speaker 2: you know kind of ride along when it comes to conservation.

992
00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:31,880
Speaker 2: You know, roughly eight percent of Americans belong to pheasants forever,

993
00:54:32,120 --> 00:54:35,680
Speaker 2: quail forever. Eight percent of the sorry of the upland

994
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:39,719
Speaker 2: hunters in the US are our members of our organization.

995
00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:42,400
Speaker 2: So that's a lot of folks that are carrying the

996
00:54:42,400 --> 00:54:46,880
Speaker 2: weight of a lot of others from public land to habitat.

997
00:54:46,960 --> 00:54:49,920
Speaker 2: And you know, we could just get twelve percent to

998
00:54:50,040 --> 00:54:53,759
Speaker 2: people that are bird hunters to contribute to be a

999
00:54:53,760 --> 00:54:56,800
Speaker 2: part of this organization. You know, we're super proud of

1000
00:54:56,840 --> 00:54:59,520
Speaker 2: the fact that if we raise a dollar in our

1001
00:54:59,560 --> 00:55:03,479
Speaker 2: forty four year history, ninety cents on the dollar gets

1002
00:55:03,480 --> 00:55:06,600
Speaker 2: into the ground to create better habitat, more public access.

1003
00:55:06,640 --> 00:55:10,560
Speaker 2: We're super efficient. We're super effective, and we just need

1004
00:55:10,560 --> 00:55:14,560
Speaker 2: more people to give a rip and get involved and

1005
00:55:14,840 --> 00:55:17,160
Speaker 2: it's it's a small price to pay for something we

1006
00:55:17,239 --> 00:55:17,960
Speaker 2: love so dearly.

1007
00:55:18,560 --> 00:55:20,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we've seen you know, I mean, I know

1008
00:55:21,000 --> 00:55:23,680
Speaker 1: that you kind of mentioned this, like hunters are just

1009
00:55:23,800 --> 00:55:26,520
Speaker 1: generally kind of apathetic, right, like we just let things happen.

1010
00:55:27,080 --> 00:55:29,439
Speaker 1: But you know, most recently, we saw the public land

1011
00:55:29,440 --> 00:55:31,919
Speaker 1: fight come out, you know, out of Mike Lee down

1012
00:55:31,920 --> 00:55:34,359
Speaker 1: in Utah. He's gonna bring it back around, We're going

1013
00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:37,319
Speaker 1: to keep having this fight. But we effectively shut that

1014
00:55:37,360 --> 00:55:40,520
Speaker 1: shit down. And that was just people aware of it,

1015
00:55:40,600 --> 00:55:43,600
Speaker 1: going I value my public lands, don't sell them, and

1016
00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:48,440
Speaker 1: letting their elected reps know. And it worked like it

1017
00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:50,400
Speaker 1: was you know, in that phone call. I mean I

1018
00:55:51,120 --> 00:55:54,319
Speaker 1: did a phone call actually for the for My Foundations

1019
00:55:54,360 --> 00:55:58,400
Speaker 1: podcast to show people, you know, like this is this

1020
00:55:58,480 --> 00:56:01,160
Speaker 1: is super easy. So I did the call, did the podcast,

1021
00:56:01,600 --> 00:56:05,080
Speaker 1: and it was like thirty seconds of my time, you know.

1022
00:56:05,200 --> 00:56:08,640
Speaker 1: But when lots and lots and lots of people do

1023
00:56:08,719 --> 00:56:11,279
Speaker 1: that from all over, then you get the attention of

1024
00:56:11,320 --> 00:56:13,239
Speaker 1: the people who are making these decisions and trying to

1025
00:56:13,239 --> 00:56:16,920
Speaker 1: pass these bills or pass these laws. And so there

1026
00:56:16,960 --> 00:56:20,600
Speaker 1: are different ways to skin this cat, but the fundamental

1027
00:56:20,640 --> 00:56:25,040
Speaker 1: thing is we know the recipe for having more Pheasants

1028
00:56:25,080 --> 00:56:27,960
Speaker 1: and more Quail. Like we can. We can read the

1029
00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:29,879
Speaker 1: TV's we go. We know how to do this shit.

1030
00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:33,280
Speaker 1: It just takes some action, It takes some money. Pheasants

1031
00:56:33,280 --> 00:56:37,360
Speaker 1: Forever is a great org. People listening should consider joining.

1032
00:56:37,480 --> 00:56:40,040
Speaker 1: Check it out. I'm sure that you guys have something

1033
00:56:40,080 --> 00:56:43,080
Speaker 1: on there on the site or somewhere about how to

1034
00:56:43,080 --> 00:56:45,359
Speaker 1: reach your reps all that stuff. Go check it out.

1035
00:56:46,440 --> 00:56:49,120
Speaker 1: Where can people find you personally if they want to

1036
00:56:49,120 --> 00:56:50,440
Speaker 1: follow along on your adventures.

1037
00:56:53,080 --> 00:56:56,959
Speaker 2: Pheasant Bob on Instagram Pretty hard one to forget there. Yeah,

1038
00:56:57,120 --> 00:57:00,399
Speaker 2: you can follow me on Instagram there, I'm on book

1039
00:57:00,600 --> 00:57:05,799
Speaker 2: just under my name as well as an X. But yeah,

1040
00:57:06,239 --> 00:57:09,080
Speaker 2: check me out on Instagram and I post a lot

1041
00:57:09,080 --> 00:57:13,440
Speaker 2: of Pheasants Forever, Quail Forever, and Detroit sports team stuff.

1042
00:57:13,480 --> 00:57:16,400
Speaker 2: So right, you can forgive me if you're a non

1043
00:57:16,440 --> 00:57:20,240
Speaker 2: Detroit fan, but I'd love to have you follow and

1044
00:57:20,440 --> 00:57:23,000
Speaker 2: check out what's going on with my dogs and with

1045
00:57:23,040 --> 00:57:24,520
Speaker 2: the conservation Bob.

1046
00:57:24,560 --> 00:57:26,400
Speaker 1: I appreciate it so much. Thanks for coming on.

1047
00:57:26,400 --> 00:57:29,920
Speaker 2: Man, Yeah, I really appreciate it, Tony. Thank you.

1048
00:57:32,920 --> 00:57:35,040
Speaker 1: That's it for this week. I'm Tony Peterson. This has

1049
00:57:35,040 --> 00:57:37,640
Speaker 1: been the Houndations podcast. As always, thank you so much

1050
00:57:37,680 --> 00:57:40,439
Speaker 1: for listening and for all your support. If you want

1051
00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:43,440
Speaker 1: to listen to some more podcasts. Maybe you need a

1052
00:57:43,440 --> 00:57:45,600
Speaker 1: little bit of entertainment when you're driving down the road

1053
00:57:45,600 --> 00:57:47,720
Speaker 1: to go to South Dakota to shoot some roosters, or

1054
00:57:47,720 --> 00:57:50,960
Speaker 1: maybe down south somewhere to shoot some quail. Maybe you

1055
00:57:51,000 --> 00:57:53,680
Speaker 1: need a new recipe, Maybe you want some how to articles,

1056
00:57:53,680 --> 00:57:56,600
Speaker 1: Maybe just want to watch some films of the med

1057
00:57:56,600 --> 00:57:59,600
Speaker 1: Eater crew out hunting and fishing for stuff. The media

1058
00:57:59,760 --> 00:58:03,120
Speaker 1: Dot has you covered. We dropped new content like every

1059
00:58:03,160 --> 00:58:06,200
Speaker 1: single day there. Go check it out and once again,

1060
00:58:06,240 --> 00:58:07,120
Speaker 1: thank you for everything.

1061
00:58:07,880 --> 00:58:07,920
Speaker 3: M