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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha, and welcome to Stepma.

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Speaker 1: Never told you protection of I her radio's house at works. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So alright, alright. Recently t I made some news when

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Speaker 1: it came out um that he regularly takes his daughter

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Speaker 1: to the doctor to have her hymend examined, her hymen examined,

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Speaker 1: to make sure she's still a virgin intact. Yeah. And

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Speaker 1: first of all gross, second of all gross um, third

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Speaker 1: of all that's not even how it works exactly, fourth

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Speaker 1: of all gross um. And we've talked about in a

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Speaker 1: couple of episodes we've done together at our cultural hang

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Speaker 1: ups around virginity and this whole idea that it somehow

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Speaker 1: makes you more pure or innocent, um, that it has

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Speaker 1: some value, right, Yeah, And I think what I see

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Speaker 1: it is such a backdated reference into which they did

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Speaker 1: sell off young girls and their virginity and their worth

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Speaker 1: to bring prosperity to a family, which again gross um.

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Speaker 1: And also we've gotten letters from listeners who feel judged

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Speaker 1: that they're still virgins, and so that's a part of

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Speaker 1: the problem too, Like if you want to be uh virgin,

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Speaker 1: there's nothing wrong either way. I guess as long as consent. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's just frustrating. It is to see that we still

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Speaker 1: have all of these ideas attached to this thing right,

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Speaker 1: once again negating what sexuality is for women in the

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Speaker 1: small part, as well as shaming women in their sexuality,

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Speaker 1: as well as some ownership often by the father, as

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Speaker 1: we see with the I of someone's and autonomy, which

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Speaker 1: is gross, like I don't I don't know how else

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Speaker 1: to put that um and such a misconception and such

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Speaker 1: a fearmongering on young women and young ladies or those

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Speaker 1: who have vaginas in general, is such an absurd pressure

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Speaker 1: to put on one as well as I just recently

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Speaker 1: rewatched Parenthood and one of the main characters lost her

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Speaker 1: or had sex for the first time. I'm gonna say

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Speaker 1: that way, it's had sex for the first time, and

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Speaker 1: her dad couldn't even look at her, couldn't even talk

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Speaker 1: to her, and all of these things. And it's such

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Speaker 1: a weird conception of the fact that there has to

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Speaker 1: be that it breaks relationships or it breaks communication skills

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Speaker 1: because she did something that you didn't like and it

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Speaker 1: was such a big deal. And don't get me wrong,

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Speaker 1: having sex it does emotionally tie you sometimes two people,

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Speaker 1: and different people handle it differently, and different people connect

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Speaker 1: with people differently when it comes to intimacy. We know this,

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Speaker 1: um that it's such a weird level of pressure and

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Speaker 1: guilt that the character, the female teenage character was was

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Speaker 1: portraying that it does. It kind of relays to all

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Speaker 1: of everyone else. Was like, Oh, wow, that's all I

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Speaker 1: should feel, that I should just feel guilty. My dad's

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Speaker 1: gonna be mad at me. Yeah, it's just the way

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Speaker 1: we talk about it. And if you think of something like, um,

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Speaker 1: the scarlettter easy a, uh, that it all that you

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Speaker 1: go from pure too slutty, like there's no the Madonna

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Speaker 1: of the Horror um, no in between um. And I

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Speaker 1: remember in college, I don't know what it was, some

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Speaker 1: kind of orientation and I was there with a friend

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Speaker 1: who I had known since I was four years old.

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Speaker 1: She and I went to the same college, and the

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Speaker 1: announcer asked, who here is abstinate? And I panicked and

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Speaker 1: stood up because I didn't want people to judge me

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Speaker 1: if they thought I'd had sex, And just that level

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Speaker 1: of it was almost instinctive because I knew some part

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Speaker 1: of me knew the judgment I would get and that's

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Speaker 1: what it was for, to single out people and to

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Speaker 1: make you feel shame. Yeah. Yeah, So this is something

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Speaker 1: Smath and I definitely want to return to in in

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Speaker 1: a future episode. But in the meantime, we do have

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Speaker 1: this classic episode about virginity for you, so we hope

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Speaker 1: you enjoyed. Welcome to Stuff Mom Never Told You from

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Speaker 1: how Stuff Works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm Caroline and I'm Kristen. Kristen, I have noticed in

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Speaker 1: the news that there's some young people doing something that

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Speaker 1: I had never heard of before that have to do

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Speaker 1: with the texting. No. Surprisingly, well, maybe it could be involved,

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Speaker 1: but no. I read about young people selling their virginity

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Speaker 1: online and I think this is crazy town. But when

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Speaker 1: I looked it up, when I looked back farther, there

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Speaker 1: were so many other instances of people doing this for

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Speaker 1: various reasons. The most recent pair were Katerina Miglioni and

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Speaker 1: Alex stepping Off. These were kids in their twenties selling

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Speaker 1: their virginity. There was a woman a couple of years

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Speaker 1: ago named Natalie Dillon, although that was a pseudonym, who

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Speaker 1: was doing it for school. Uh. Those other two did

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Speaker 1: it for to be in a movie like and get

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Speaker 1: money and all this stuff. So it's crazy to me,

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Speaker 1: like why why these young people would choose to do this?

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Speaker 1: And it's certainly, at least in Natalie Dillon's case, lit

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Speaker 1: up the blogosphere as to like, you know, people were

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Speaker 1: just going crazy over why she would do this, that

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Speaker 1: they didn't like that she was trying to tie it

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Speaker 1: into feminism. They didn't you know, approve of her reasoning

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Speaker 1: and all this stuff. So I thought we should take

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Speaker 1: a look at virginity auctions and why the heck anyone

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Speaker 1: would try to auction their virginity off in the first place. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And by auctioning off of virginity, it is essentially someone

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Speaker 1: buying the chance to have sex with that person for

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Speaker 1: the very first time. And which you know, for anyone

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Speaker 1: out there who has had sex before a lot of times,

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Speaker 1: like the first time, that's like you wouldn't. I would

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Speaker 1: not pay the money these people have paid to have

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Speaker 1: that uh sex again, not to b t am I

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Speaker 1: about it, because it's I mean, it's your first time,

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Speaker 1: you just don't it's not you're not experienced. Um. And

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Speaker 1: also reading all this stuff about these virginity auctions and

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Speaker 1: the reaction to that, to it, it's incredible that, as

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Speaker 1: in the era of fifty Shades of Gray, that virginity

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Speaker 1: in a way is still a taboo. Um So, but

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Speaker 1: let's let's go. Let's let's start from the present and

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Speaker 1: work back a little bit. Let's talk about the film

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Speaker 1: in which Katerina and what was the fellow's name, Alex

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Speaker 1: Katerina and Ali x uh, we're part of this documentary.

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Speaker 1: The whole thing is kind of shady to me. Yeah. Well,

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Speaker 1: so there's this Australian director, Justin Sisly, who came up

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Speaker 1: with the idea for a documentary in which a man

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Speaker 1: and a woman would each offer their virginity to the

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Speaker 1: highest online bidder. So he puts ads out seeking people,

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Speaker 1: puts a website up, and he's adamant, like in all

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Speaker 1: of the like Business Week had of Q and A

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Speaker 1: with this guy, he's adamant that he's not just interested

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Speaker 1: in sex, young people having sex, young people being taken

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Speaker 1: advantage of anything like that. He says that his main

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Speaker 1: interest is in change, and in documenting this whole hubbub,

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Speaker 1: he wanted to portray the changes that these people are

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Speaker 1: going through the entire time. And you know, I'm I

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Speaker 1: have the willies from just thinking about it because you

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean, obviously, like justin cisely is smart

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Speaker 1: in knowing what will get media attention. And if you

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Speaker 1: make a documentary called Virgins Wanted, then hey, that's a

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Speaker 1: good job. You're gonna get some some easy pr on that.

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Speaker 1: But also the fact that there is this assumption that

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Speaker 1: heterosexual intercourse because that it's all in like very heteronormal

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Speaker 1: terms as well, they're looking for a dude for her

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Speaker 1: and a lady for him, and the but the but

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Speaker 1: the idea that having having intercourse once changes you. I

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Speaker 1: think it's also one of the reasons why virginity in

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Speaker 1: a way is still this cultural taboo, myth, huge thing

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Speaker 1: that we just can't let go of. But I feel

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Speaker 1: like I'm getting ahead of myself. Well, no, you're exactly right,

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Speaker 1: and we will get into that. But I think it's

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Speaker 1: important to point out how much cash these people raked in.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, So the bidding ran from September to October,

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Speaker 1: and the pair were scheduled to lose their virginity in

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Speaker 1: the air in an airplane to avoid prostitution laws of

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Speaker 1: any country. Uh And about mid November and I have

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Speaker 1: no idea. I tried to google updates. I couldn't find

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Speaker 1: any more recent updates, you know, as of December. But

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Speaker 1: Katerina's top bidder was a Japanese man going by the

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Speaker 1: name Natsu, who offered seven hundred and eighty thousand dollars.

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Speaker 1: Alex's top bitter this is a a Russian man. Alex's

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Speaker 1: top bitter was a Brazilian woman going by the name

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Speaker 1: Neni b who offered three grand Yeah, and that huge

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Speaker 1: pay difference that worth in quotes um for male virginity

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Speaker 1: versus female virginity is also something that we will circle

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Speaker 1: back to because that also gets at the heart of,

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Speaker 1: you know, the implicate, the major implications of the fact

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Speaker 1: that we still talk about virginity so much and get

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Speaker 1: so worked up about virginity which even you know you

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Speaker 1: could like really isn't even a thing. But again, I

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Speaker 1: keep getting ahead of myself because there's so much to

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Speaker 1: talk about um. And not surprisingly, Katerina has received more

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Speaker 1: scrutiny than Alex. There was a pro their profiles of

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Speaker 1: each of them, and the one for Alex painted him

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Speaker 1: as this kind of sad and depressed kid who wanted

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Speaker 1: to have sex so that he could get more, you know,

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Speaker 1: gain more self confidence and wants to find love, whereas

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Speaker 1: Katerina is just being slut shamed left and right. Yeah. Yeah, Well,

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Speaker 1: she said that she wanted to start an NGO and

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Speaker 1: invest in a public housing project in her hometown in Brazil.

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Speaker 1: But even the director himself just incisely said he was

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Speaker 1: skeptical of this, to which I say, like, you know what,

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Speaker 1: if you're going to auction your virginity off, who really cares? Like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know who cares what you do with the money, honestly.

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Speaker 1: But uh, Cleon dasca Lakis, who's an ex hockey player

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Speaker 1: who runs net raffle dot org, which is a site

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Speaker 1: that raises money for online charities, pointed out that some

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Speaker 1: charities might actually refuse the money because, as he says,

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Speaker 1: this type of transaction is setting a dangerous precedent. Not

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Speaker 1: to mention a call for global prostitution on a one

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Speaker 1: time basis, Okay, I think that that is a little

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Speaker 1: bit overblown. I think that's also it's missing the point

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Speaker 1: in a lot of ways, um, And I think that

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Speaker 1: we can get to that point a little bit more

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Speaker 1: when we talk about the two thousand nine case of

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Speaker 1: Natalie Dylan, which again is a pseudonym, who that year

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Speaker 1: announced on Howard Stern's Show, along with Dennis Hoff, who

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Speaker 1: was the owner of the Moonlight Bunny Ranch in Nevada,

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Speaker 1: that she was going to auction off her virginity to

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Speaker 1: pay for her master's degree in family and marriage therapy

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Speaker 1: and as part of a quote unquote sociological experiment. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: She she posted a column in The Daily Beast where

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Speaker 1: she says that I wanted to study the public's response.

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Speaker 1: She said that she was doing her upcoming thesis project

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Speaker 1: on the value of virginity and said that as a

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Speaker 1: Women's studies undergrad, she learned that the concept of virginity

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Speaker 1: quote is just a tool to keep the status quo intact.

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Speaker 1: Deflowering is historically oppressive. Early European marriages begin with a dowry,

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Speaker 1: in which a father would sell his virginal daughter to

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Speaker 1: the man whose family could offer the most agricultural wealth dad's,

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Speaker 1: she says, we're basically their daughters pimps. Well, and one

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Speaker 1: thing though, that is that is troubling about that dowry analogy,

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Speaker 1: speaking of it as a relic of a bygone era,

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Speaker 1: is that hey guess what, that stuff still exists. We

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Speaker 1: aren't living in some kind of like post feminist society

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Speaker 1: where that does not still go on. And even like

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Speaker 1: India is um one place where a lot of times,

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Speaker 1: even now, money is typically exchanged between families when couples

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Speaker 1: are getting married, and a lot of times dowries have

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Speaker 1: and still do equate too many times the household's annual income.

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Speaker 1: Uh So I'm just saying, you know, Dylan, do little

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Speaker 1: bit of history work first, but continue. Yeah. Well, so

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Speaker 1: she's basically saying, like, all right, if if historically women

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Speaker 1: have been you know, quote unquote pimped out by their fathers,

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Speaker 1: what's to stop me from benefiting from the value that

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Speaker 1: society places on my virginity. So she's basically saying that

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Speaker 1: she wanted to turn her virginity quote into something that

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Speaker 1: allows me to gain power an opportunity from men. So

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Speaker 1: using something that you know, whether or not she herself

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Speaker 1: places any value on it, she knows that society does

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Speaker 1: that men do, and she wants to see how much

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Speaker 1: money she can get from the sale of this quote

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Speaker 1: unquote virtue. Well, in her argument about um, you know,

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Speaker 1: using this in a way that allows her to gain

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Speaker 1: power and opportunity with men. Does echo a lot of

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Speaker 1: feminist arguments in favor of sex work, saying, hey, you

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Speaker 1: know what, I can I can strip, I can have

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Speaker 1: sex for money. I'm just you know, using being, using

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Speaker 1: the turning the tool of patriarchy for my own benefit.

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Speaker 1: But the whole thing of using virginity as a commodity

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Speaker 1: is troubling because it still doesn't that's different from just

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Speaker 1: having sex for money, if that makes sense. It's it's

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Speaker 1: the whole thing of perpetuating the mythology of virginity that

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Speaker 1: is that is problematic to me. And I'm not the

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Speaker 1: only one who has found, you know, Dylan's Dylan's thesis

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Speaker 1: to be a little bit wonky. Yeah, the whole internet

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Speaker 1: basically was like what. There was a slew of blog

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Speaker 1: post articles and everything written about this woman. After her

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Speaker 1: Daily Beest column in early two thousand nine, Carrie Polos

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Speaker 1: over at The Huffington's Post said that, you know what,

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Speaker 1: Dylan is just proving what we already know, that virginity

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Speaker 1: is still considered something of value, and Polis points out

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Speaker 1: that the real problem to her is that we have

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Speaker 1: someone who's willing to spend in Dylan's case, almost four

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Speaker 1: million dollars to sleep with her just because no one

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Speaker 1: else has. So why isn't there equal media attention about

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Speaker 1: those men, about the whole cultural perception of well, she's clean,

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Speaker 1: she hasn't had any other man or any other man's baby.

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Speaker 1: You know, I can you know, verify that she's clean,

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Speaker 1: so to speak. Yeah, the the whole thing, the backlash too,

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Speaker 1: is not a thing of oh, well, she's selling the

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Speaker 1: opportunity for someone to have sex with her. No, if

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Speaker 1: she wants to go to the Moonlight Bunny Ranch and

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Speaker 1: have sex with someone for money, that's fine, that's not

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Speaker 1: that's not the issue here. Um. Megan Carpenter, who used

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Speaker 1: to work over at Jezebel, wrote at the time that

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Speaker 1: she was acknowledging the patriarchal system, but rather than working

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Speaker 1: to end it, she's accepting its terms and using it

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Speaker 1: to make money, which serves one person it serves her,

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Speaker 1: in which case, do not try to And this is

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Speaker 1: me now expounding on this. Don't uh, you know, use

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Speaker 1: feminism as kind of a strong and for for your

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Speaker 1: own little experiment that you're that you're pulling off here, right.

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Speaker 1: Kate Harding at Salon or at the time, had an interesting,

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Speaker 1: interesting take on it. She said that virginity isn't priceless,

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Speaker 1: but it should be valueless. She says that objecting to

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Speaker 1: the whole concept of putting a price on a young

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Speaker 1: woman's virginity implies that I do believe it's priceless. And

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Speaker 1: so she said that objecting to Natalie Dillon's auction puts

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Speaker 1: her up there with people who you know, support purity balls,

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Speaker 1: the dances where a daughter pledges her chastity basically to

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Speaker 1: her father. Um. And so she says, what I want

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Speaker 1: is a world in which there are no virginity auctions

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Speaker 1: because there are no bidders, because nobody fetishize as a

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Speaker 1: woman's purity or actually thinks of a sexually active woman

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Speaker 1: as dirty and spoiled. Right, And this is something that, uh,

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Speaker 1: the implications are so huge for women versus men, because

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Speaker 1: for men it's a stigma. If you more of a

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Speaker 1: stigma if you have not had uh sex with someone

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Speaker 1: you know, just go back to the Virgins Wanted documentary.

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Speaker 1: You know, Alex, the guy is portrayed as you know,

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Speaker 1: kind of oh, he's so set someone bid so that

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Speaker 1: he can finally have sex. You know, whereas for women

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Speaker 1: it comes with having sex, then comes with the additional

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Speaker 1: burden of being stigmatized. Um. And one of the reasons

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Speaker 1: why we wanted to title this episode, what is Virginity

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Speaker 1: worth is because it is a little bit of a

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Speaker 1: twist from that title that it should not like Kate

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Speaker 1: Harding said, I agree with that it shouldn't be not

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Speaker 1: like worthless sounds like a throw away. We should value

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Speaker 1: our bodies and have bodily integrity. But I do agree

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Speaker 1: that it should be valueless. You know, it shouldn't be

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Speaker 1: an issue of being so titillating right to a portion

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Speaker 1: of the population. But I mean that gets us into

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Speaker 1: the whole conversation of why are we obsessed with virginity? What?

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Speaker 1: What is the big deal about it? So Lauren Carpenter

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Speaker 1: wrote a book called Virginity Loss and Intimate Portrait of

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Speaker 1: First Sexual Experiences, and she talks about the etymology of virginity,

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Speaker 1: which entered the English language in the twelve hundreds and

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Speaker 1: by nine we were speaking of virginity in terms of

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Speaker 1: keeping it versus losing it. It is this thing that

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Speaker 1: we have and from about the twelve twelveth century onward,

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Speaker 1: women's physiology. This is important. Women's physiology was believed to

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Speaker 1: allow for a more complete virginity than men's because quote,

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Speaker 1: as Carpenter rights, the female body was hollow and therefore

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Speaker 1: capable of both continue the divine and being sealed to

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Speaker 1: exclude all other influences. So for centuries, a woman's virginity

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Speaker 1: has been imbued with so many uh different things as

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Speaker 1: opposed to male virginity. Uh. And she offers the example

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Speaker 1: of a popular thirteenth century poem, Hail Maidenhead, which describes

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Speaker 1: virginity as quote, the one gift granted you from Heaven.

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Speaker 1: Give it away once, and you will never recover another

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Speaker 1: in any way like it. So that was the thirteenth

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Speaker 1: century version of what the whole giveaway? The giveaway ice

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Speaker 1: cream samples here the whole whole cow milk or cows

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Speaker 1: the milk cows. Yeah? And why yeah, why do we

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Speaker 1: also equate like intercourse with cows like somehow well, that's

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Speaker 1: just weird. Yeah. And this leads into the Reformation, during

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Speaker 1: which time virginity was viewed basically as a stage girls

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Speaker 1: passed through on the way to marriage. In the eighteenth century, however,

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Speaker 1: there was the rise and out of wedlock burst, which

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Speaker 1: became a problem for the church. So virginity became even

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Speaker 1: more cherished and cult like during this time. And then,

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Speaker 1: you know, do we even need to go into the

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Speaker 1: Victorian era of sexual repression and what that did to

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Speaker 1: people's attitudes towards sex and cross gender relationships. So in

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Speaker 1: a way, the what Hannah Blank and we've interviewed before

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Speaker 1: for the podcast, she wrote a book, Virginity and Untouched History,

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Speaker 1: in which she talks about how it really is more

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Speaker 1: mythology than fact, and it is something that has been

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Speaker 1: used as a tool to, you know, make sure that

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Speaker 1: women aren't causing too much trouble in society, making those

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Speaker 1: out of wedlock babies and I don't know, enjoying themselves

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Speaker 1: or or something like that. And considering all of that history,

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Speaker 1: it really isn't incredibly surprising that only, you know, a

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Speaker 1: couple of centuries post Victorian era, we are still kind

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Speaker 1: of like, we don't, you know, virginity is still this thing,

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Speaker 1: the capital V. Right. Well, Jessica Valenti, who's the founder

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Speaker 1: of Feminist NG and the author of the Purity Myth,

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Speaker 1: how America's obsession with virginity. Virginity is hurting young women.

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Speaker 1: Had a conversation with Tracy Clark Florey, who's a writer

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Speaker 1: over at Salon all of that to say, they had

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Speaker 1: a conversation about virginity, and uh, Hannah Blank's book came up.

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Speaker 1: You know, you mentioned virgin The inn Touch History, in

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Speaker 1: which she talks about there's no actual standard medical definition

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Speaker 1: of virginity, that it's completely culturally constructed. And along those lines,

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Speaker 1: Tracy Clark Floory says that it's often a really limiting

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Speaker 1: version of sexuality that doesn't include certain types of intimacy

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Speaker 1: that are pretty important, right because, uh, you know, some

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Speaker 1: people listening might think, like, I mean, obviously, like you

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Speaker 1: are a virgin when you you're no longer a virgin

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Speaker 1: when you've had sex. But that is one kind that's

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Speaker 1: a completely heteronormative construct of one kind of penis and

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Speaker 1: vagina action, like disavowing like any other kind of sexual

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Speaker 1: contact that people can have. Right, So basically they're arguing, like,

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Speaker 1: does that mean that gay people are always virgins forever

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Speaker 1: and ever? Well, I mean, according to this very black

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Speaker 1: and white idea of virginity that we have here that

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Speaker 1: we're talking about, apparently just a large portion of the

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Speaker 1: population is very chaste. Well, and I think it's problematic

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Speaker 1: too that there is so much emphasis placed on penis

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Speaker 1: and vagina intercourse, where you know, we have young girls

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Speaker 1: wanting to quote unquote protect this virginity and are doing

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Speaker 1: other things that are very adult that still can have

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Speaker 1: you know, physical implications and are arguably as sexually intimate,

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Speaker 1: if not more so, you know, And same thing goes

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Speaker 1: for guys too. I'm not saying that guys are left

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Speaker 1: out of this equation either. It uh, it has been

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Speaker 1: more of an onus for for the women's right. And

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Speaker 1: I mean this, we haven't even gotten into how you

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Speaker 1: can't even prove necessarily that someone is a virgin. And

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Speaker 1: that's what was going along with all of these virginity

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Speaker 1: auctions was that the women had to go through medical

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Speaker 1: exams to quote unquote prove that they had not had sex.

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Speaker 1: But you can still break your hymen if you have

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Speaker 1: engaged in vigorous exercise, you know, inserting a tampon, Like

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Speaker 1: just because your hymen is not intact doesn't mean that

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Speaker 1: you're not a virgin. Like, there's all these other issues

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Speaker 1: in this right. Because we've we talked about this on

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Speaker 1: a long ago podcast specifically dealing with hyman's but it's not.

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Speaker 1: People imagine it as some kind of cellophane wrapper over

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Speaker 1: our vagina, when in fact it's more like a doughnut

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Speaker 1: of tissue that simply with time wears a way. So

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Speaker 1: if you are, you know, if you're an old, an

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Speaker 1: old galon you've never had sex like your hyman would

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Speaker 1: would not look as quote unquote intact as it would.

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Speaker 1: So when thinking about this whole concept of virginity, auction

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Speaker 1: and the the worth of virginity again, I I just

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Speaker 1: think that UM, even even flirting with the idea of

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Speaker 1: putting a price on it, only reinforces all of these

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Speaker 1: things that still exists not only in Western society but

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Speaker 1: around the world. If we're talking about money exchange, if

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Speaker 1: we're talking about um, sexual stigma, if we're talking about

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Speaker 1: these myths about like what the himan does and how

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Speaker 1: you can medically prove whether or not someone is a virgin,

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Speaker 1: which is completely impossible, as any like sexual practitioner will

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Speaker 1: tell you sexual practitioner. That makes it sound like like

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Speaker 1: we just see um, Well yeah, I mean it is.

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Speaker 1: Virginity is a social construct, a cultural construct, and women

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Speaker 1: like Natalie Dylan are saying, well, I'm just gonna stick

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Speaker 1: it back in your face, like I'm just going to

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Speaker 1: take advantage of your social perceptions and earned two million

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Speaker 1: or three million, four million dollars yea four million dollars

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Speaker 1: in the process. Well and she did not end up

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Speaker 1: doing it the winning bitter. I guess he turned out

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Speaker 1: to be married and his wife found out and was

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Speaker 1: not happy. But then last we heard she had found

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Speaker 1: someone else. To these stories kind of trickle off vaguely. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, I I think it's an interesting conversation to

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Speaker 1: have on gender and sexuality. Well, and maybe they trickle

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Speaker 1: off to Caroline because uh, you know, there's so much

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Speaker 1: lead up to the grand finale, which is yeah, well

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Speaker 1: we we had sex and that was it. Yeah. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: well I know that in the most recent with the

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Speaker 1: Justin Slicely documentary, like no sex toys allowed, no additional

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Speaker 1: partners and condoms had to be used, Like it was

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Speaker 1: very much like you are just buying the experience of

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Speaker 1: having sexual intercourse with a virgin on a plane, an airplane,

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Speaker 1: so they get a mile high club. I was gonna

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Speaker 1: make a Snake's on my plane joke, but not have

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Speaker 1: mind Oh I like that one better. Well, UM, I

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Speaker 1: am going to be very curious to hear from listeners

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Speaker 1: on this um And we're not again like, this is

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Speaker 1: not saying that people should not be careful with their

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Speaker 1: bodies and respect their bodies and uh, you know, pay

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Speaker 1: attention to things like consent if you aren't ready to

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Speaker 1: have sex. We're not saying like everybody go have sex

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00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:43,840
Speaker 1: right now. If you haven't had sex, you just need

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00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 1: to to do it um or just saying that it's

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00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:52,200
Speaker 1: time to high time to really um examine. What are

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00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:55,720
Speaker 1: we talking about when we're talking about virginity and why

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00:26:55,760 --> 00:27:14,800
Speaker 1: do we get so worked up about it? Well, I've

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00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:19,120
Speaker 1: got an email here from Kirsten and she's from South Africa. Oh,

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00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:23,679
Speaker 1: inter National listener, and this is in response to an

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00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 1: episode we did a while ago. We're talked about Scent

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00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 1: Prince and her subject line is unattractive scent print and

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00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:33,639
Speaker 1: she says, I just listened to your podcast on unique

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00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:35,879
Speaker 1: Scent Prince and I have to say I dated a

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00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:39,119
Speaker 1: guy several years ago who just didn't smell good to me.

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00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 1: In fact, he smelled very unpleasant. I could tell it

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00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:45,080
Speaker 1: wasn't his deodorant or bad cologne, but his natural scent.

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00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 1: It sounds strange, but it was almost soapy, a baby

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00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:52,240
Speaker 1: powder smell but not quite. Who wouldn't like a soap smell?

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00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:54,879
Speaker 1: But nevertheless, it grossed me out. This upset me. I

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00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 1: tried to ignore it and tell myself it was all

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00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:58,120
Speaker 1: in my head, but every time I would get close

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00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:01,520
Speaker 1: to him, I smelled it. Anyway, the relationship ended pretty

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00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:04,800
Speaker 1: quickly and mutual. Maybe he didn't like my smell either.

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00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:07,120
Speaker 1: I've only met one other person in my life who

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00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:10,359
Speaker 1: had a very unpleasant smell to me. And let's just say,

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00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:13,080
Speaker 1: I think there's something to the unpleasant smell connecting with

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00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:16,800
Speaker 1: unsuitability that you guys talked about. Although both dudes were great,

450
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:20,120
Speaker 1: I don't think either are suited for me at all.

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00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:21,920
Speaker 1: I just want to let you guys know about that

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00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:24,040
Speaker 1: little story because I've always thought it was strange and

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00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:27,199
Speaker 1: I've never heard anyone really talk about it before. So

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00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:31,679
Speaker 1: perhaps in love Caroline the Nose knows. Okay, here's an

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00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 1: email from Charles that combines two amazing things, Pinterest and

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00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:41,360
Speaker 1: crazy cat people. Yeah, so he's talking about how he

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00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 1: uses Pinterest and is trying to use it more, and

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00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:46,840
Speaker 1: he does use Twitter as well, but he says I

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00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 1: find that Pinterest is useful for keeping things i'd like

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00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 1: to remember separate from my Twitter and Facebook feeds. I

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00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 1: don't use the social feature on Pinterest. Really, I'm not

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00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:59,040
Speaker 1: particularly interested in what other people are pinning. For that reason,

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00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 1: I'm not concerned with the feminine slant on the public boards.

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00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 1: My Pinterest is for me. Other people can look at

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00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 1: it if they want, but it's a repository of digital

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00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 1: reminders and brainstorming material. If I want to kill hours

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00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:13,880
Speaker 1: and hours, I go to Twitter and Facebook. Still, I

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00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 1: find that the information tends to be more targeted and

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00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:19,640
Speaker 1: less of a time suck. Also, and this is where

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00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:23,880
Speaker 1: the gears change. As an owner of not one or two,

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00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:27,440
Speaker 1: but three cats in a small New York apartment, I

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00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:29,520
Speaker 1: have to say that I can officially come out as

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00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 1: a crazy cat guy. There aren't many of us, but

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00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 1: we're out there. I have at least one friend that

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00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:38,000
Speaker 1: I'm not positive but fairly certain would self identify as

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00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 1: such as well. I probably wouldn't have been such a

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00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 1: crazy cat guy if it weren't for my wife. But

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00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 1: I'm hooked now. Cats really are the perfect city pet

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00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:48,160
Speaker 1: and far more loyal and attentive that people give them

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00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 1: credit for any who. He says, hope this shed some

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00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:55,000
Speaker 1: light on the elusive New York male cat lover slash

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00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 1: Pinterest user. So thank you, Charles, you've enlightened us. That

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00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 1: was delightful. Charles, I kind of want to hang out

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00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:05,960
Speaker 1: and meet your cats sometime. Uh so let us know

485
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 1: about your cats as well. Mom Stuff at discovery dot

486
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 1: com is where you can send us letters. You can

487
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:13,600
Speaker 1: also head over and start a conversation on Facebook and

488
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 1: like us while you're at it, and follow us on

489
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 1: Twitter at mom Stuff Podcasts. And you can also check

490
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 1: out our tumbler blog and tumble with us at stuff

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00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 1: mom Never Told You dot tumbler dot com. And if

492
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 1: you'd like to get a little smarter this week, why

493
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:28,400
Speaker 1: don't you head over to our website It's how stuff

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00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 1: works dot com for more on this and thousands of

495
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 1: other topics. Is it how stuff works dot com