WEBVTT - Never worry about money again, with Jesse Mechem 0:00:02.960 --> 0:00:09.320 Welcome to Before Breakfast, a production of iHeartRadio. Good Morning. 0:00:10.119 --> 0:00:15.360 This is Laura, Welcome to the Before Breakfast podcast. Today's 0:00:15.400 --> 0:00:18.439 episode is going to be a slightly longer one part 0:00:18.480 --> 0:00:21.640 of the series where I interview fascinating people about how 0:00:21.680 --> 0:00:24.720 they take their days from great to awesome and any 0:00:24.720 --> 0:00:27.680 advice they have for the rest of us. So today 0:00:27.800 --> 0:00:30.800 I am delighted to welcome Jesse Meekham to Before Breakfast. 0:00:31.240 --> 0:00:34.080 Jesse is the founder of the personal finance tool Wine app. 0:00:34.320 --> 0:00:36.720 He is also the author of the brand new book 0:00:37.040 --> 0:00:39.080 Never Worry About Money Again. 0:00:39.479 --> 0:00:40.760 Jesse, Welcome to the show. 0:00:40.960 --> 0:00:42.559 Thanks for having me, Laura. I'm excited. 0:00:43.280 --> 0:00:44.960 Yeah, I'm excited to chat with you. Why don't you 0:00:45.000 --> 0:00:46.800 tell our listeners a little bit about yourself? 0:00:47.200 --> 0:00:51.680 Oh boy, let's see. I'll start where I got married young, 0:00:51.880 --> 0:00:56.200 at twenty one in school and my wife and I 0:00:56.200 --> 0:00:58.920 were both wrapping up school. Actually she while she was 0:00:58.920 --> 0:01:00.840 wrapping up, I was just getting started. She was wrapping 0:01:00.920 --> 0:01:03.760 up a degree in social work and her prospects were 0:01:03.760 --> 0:01:06.520 something like eleven dollars an hour with a state license 0:01:06.600 --> 0:01:08.880 kind of kind of thing going on. And then I 0:01:08.959 --> 0:01:12.360 was majoring in accounting and had three years left and 0:01:13.200 --> 0:01:15.039 but we you know, we got married on love, but 0:01:15.080 --> 0:01:18.679 you don't pay bills with love. So it immediately became 0:01:18.720 --> 0:01:21.040 a parent that we had to start being really careful 0:01:21.040 --> 0:01:23.920 with our money. And that was where my obsession, I 0:01:23.920 --> 0:01:25.800 would say, began with like, how do we do this? 0:01:25.959 --> 0:01:27.840 How do we do this money thing? How do we 0:01:27.880 --> 0:01:29.400 do it together? How do we do it at all? 0:01:30.000 --> 0:01:33.240 And I ended up getting an accounting degree, got my 0:01:33.319 --> 0:01:36.160 CPA license, let it lapse immediately. I mean I might 0:01:36.200 --> 0:01:39.520 be the shortest run CPA of all time, you know. 0:01:40.440 --> 0:01:44.360 I got it and then immediately lapsed. But started this 0:01:44.440 --> 0:01:49.080 little side thing called Whineam and it was just for 0:01:49.200 --> 0:01:53.000 me and Julie originally, like no concept of commercialization or anything. 0:01:53.560 --> 0:01:56.760 Just was helping us. But when our first was on 0:01:56.840 --> 0:01:58.800 the way and she wanted to step out of the 0:01:58.840 --> 0:02:01.880 workforce and just focus being a mom, I thought we 0:02:01.960 --> 0:02:04.000 got to figure out another way to make some money. 0:02:04.440 --> 0:02:06.720 So I came up with this crazy idea to sell 0:02:06.720 --> 0:02:09.639 this little spreadsheet that we had made, and that became 0:02:09.720 --> 0:02:11.800 software and then a web app, and then the phones 0:02:11.840 --> 0:02:14.760 came along, it became a phone app, and all along 0:02:14.760 --> 0:02:19.200 the way, I've just been obsessing over how to eliminate 0:02:19.320 --> 0:02:23.080 money worry essentially, and it's been fun. Like it's my 0:02:23.080 --> 0:02:24.960 favorite job I've ever had. I don't think I'll ever 0:02:24.960 --> 0:02:25.360 give it up. 0:02:26.160 --> 0:02:28.320 Yeah, well that's interesting. I mean it's quite the prospect. 0:02:28.320 --> 0:02:31.560 The title of your book to never worry about money again. 0:02:31.680 --> 0:02:35.160 And somebody might say, well, well, Jesse, that's easy for 0:02:35.240 --> 0:02:38.800 you now you have a successful business. But would you 0:02:38.840 --> 0:02:41.639 have told twenty two year old Jesse, you know, with 0:02:42.240 --> 0:02:45.440 a young family, that it is possible to never worry 0:02:45.480 --> 0:02:46.240 about money again. 0:02:46.360 --> 0:02:48.880 Yeah, he's the one that figured it out, actually, Yeah. 0:02:48.919 --> 0:02:52.560 So the book is basically a story of young me, 0:02:53.080 --> 0:02:55.600 and it was really fun to go back and be 0:02:55.720 --> 0:02:58.160 like where did this land? Like how did I What 0:02:58.360 --> 0:03:01.320 was the turning point for me where I realized like 0:03:01.360 --> 0:03:03.640 I was doing money wrong and still stressed about it. 0:03:03.680 --> 0:03:05.840 Like I was an accounting major. I was supposed to 0:03:06.320 --> 0:03:08.399 get I was supposed to be good at money right. 0:03:08.480 --> 0:03:11.520 And it was stressful to us. And we were not 0:03:11.639 --> 0:03:14.280 making a lot by any stretch. So some might say 0:03:14.280 --> 0:03:17.240 what was stressful because you weren't making enough? But I 0:03:17.280 --> 0:03:20.480 know far too many people that make plenty and still 0:03:20.520 --> 0:03:23.840 are totally stressed about it. So the income issue at 0:03:23.840 --> 0:03:27.120 the very lowest level, it is an income problem. But 0:03:27.240 --> 0:03:29.480 when you get above that level, it is no longer 0:03:29.520 --> 0:03:34.000 an income problem. It's it's a an understanding problem, a 0:03:34.040 --> 0:03:36.680 way of thinking problem. And that's what twenty two year 0:03:36.720 --> 0:03:39.360 old twenty three year old Jesse started to figure out, 0:03:39.360 --> 0:03:41.680 first by doing it wrong and then started to get 0:03:41.680 --> 0:03:44.880 it right. So, yeah, we made I make far more 0:03:44.920 --> 0:03:46.600 than I did back then. I'm sure it would blow 0:03:46.640 --> 0:03:48.840 his mind to know how successful he and I have become. 0:03:49.360 --> 0:03:54.280 But the worry is a function of how we think 0:03:54.320 --> 0:03:56.280 about the money, not the income. 0:03:57.920 --> 0:03:59.960 So one of the things that Winab is kind of 0:04:00.120 --> 0:04:04.160 famous for is teaching people to move beyond paycheck to 0:04:04.200 --> 0:04:09.040 paycheck living by kind of moving you know, your expenses back. 0:04:09.440 --> 0:04:09.920 I guess for it. 0:04:10.240 --> 0:04:11.800 I'm not sure how you describe it, but maybe you 0:04:11.840 --> 0:04:14.840 could tell people so that you're not spending this month's money. 0:04:15.280 --> 0:04:15.480 Now. 0:04:15.600 --> 0:04:16.840 Can you talk about that? 0:04:17.160 --> 0:04:19.640 Yeah? In the book, well, we tell people, you know, 0:04:20.000 --> 0:04:22.120 the only question you ever have to ask, and it 0:04:22.200 --> 0:04:24.760 is a hard question to answer, but you have to 0:04:24.800 --> 0:04:28.599 ask yourself, what is this money for? The asking and 0:04:28.680 --> 0:04:31.960 answering of that question is the beginning of the end 0:04:32.160 --> 0:04:35.400 of your money worry, and people don't know what their 0:04:35.400 --> 0:04:37.800 money's for. And it's not that they couldn't figure it out, 0:04:37.800 --> 0:04:40.080 they just haven't taken the time to figure it out. 0:04:40.440 --> 0:04:42.640 One of there are only five possible answers to what 0:04:42.680 --> 0:04:45.160 your money is for, and inside those five there are 0:04:45.200 --> 0:04:48.320 infinite possibilities to make each of us unique and special 0:04:48.720 --> 0:04:51.920 kind of our own special spending DNA. But there's the 0:04:51.960 --> 0:04:55.040 third one of what your money is for. We call 0:04:55.080 --> 0:04:58.880 it that it's for ease, and we literally mean we 0:04:58.920 --> 0:05:01.800 want to make the system of money itself easy. And 0:05:01.839 --> 0:05:04.599 that's exactly what you're describing. Where you earn this month, 0:05:04.880 --> 0:05:08.000 you spend next month. And when people are living pitchrick 0:05:08.000 --> 0:05:09.440 to pitcheck and you tell them that, they're like, well, 0:05:09.480 --> 0:05:12.040 I can't do that, but we get people there. It takes, 0:05:12.120 --> 0:05:14.360 on average, it takes four to six months for someone 0:05:14.640 --> 0:05:17.599 to begin the process and then get to where the 0:05:17.680 --> 0:05:21.120 money they earn in August they're spending in September, and 0:05:21.200 --> 0:05:25.039 that makes the whole song and dances, paycheck and bill 0:05:25.080 --> 0:05:27.440 and when do I pay that all just goes away. 0:05:27.480 --> 0:05:31.480 And it's this killer optimization. So it really introduces a 0:05:31.480 --> 0:05:33.760 lot of ease into their life, not the kind where 0:05:33.760 --> 0:05:35.240 you're like Martini on the beaches. 0:05:35.680 --> 0:05:38.480 But this system is yeah, yeah, the system where you're 0:05:38.480 --> 0:05:41.000 not like, where is this check clearing in the course 0:05:41.040 --> 0:05:45.400 of this business day ten am two pm. Not living 0:05:45.440 --> 0:05:48.359 with that is helpful, but I found it interesting. So 0:05:49.160 --> 0:05:51.320 I understood from some of the literature I received about 0:05:51.360 --> 0:05:53.400 you and your new book that you are moving away 0:05:53.400 --> 0:05:57.320 from using the word budget. And of course wine ab 0:05:57.480 --> 0:06:00.000 is originally you need a budget. So that's kind of 0:06:00.320 --> 0:06:02.400 a big break. If you're not really us seeing the 0:06:02.400 --> 0:06:04.000 word budget anymore, can you talk about that? 0:06:04.360 --> 0:06:08.400 Yeah, we tried about for about five years to redefine 0:06:08.400 --> 0:06:12.040 the word budget in the world, at least in the 0:06:12.080 --> 0:06:16.239 English speaking world, and we failed miserably. Like we tried 0:06:16.279 --> 0:06:18.320 so hard to be like, no, no, when we say budget, 0:06:18.680 --> 0:06:21.960 we mean you being in control, we mean you spending 0:06:22.000 --> 0:06:26.320 with purpose, we mean you self actualizing, we mean you 0:06:26.400 --> 0:06:29.760 reaching your goals and thinking big. But when people they 0:06:29.839 --> 0:06:32.159 just don't believe us. When they hear the word budget 0:06:32.320 --> 0:06:34.799 someone off the street, they're going to think, Okay, fun 0:06:34.880 --> 0:06:39.000 is over. Restriction begins. It's essentially a prison, and my 0:06:39.120 --> 0:06:42.120 money will always just be spoken for and taken. And 0:06:42.240 --> 0:06:45.160 try as we might, we could not get rid of that, 0:06:46.000 --> 0:06:50.279 we couldn't redefine the word. It's incredibly hard apparently, So 0:06:50.600 --> 0:06:53.680 for the last probably i'd say two three years, we've 0:06:53.680 --> 0:06:56.120 really just gotten away from saying the word budget. And 0:06:56.160 --> 0:06:59.159 it's not because we think inside wineap the budgets are bad. 0:06:59.200 --> 0:07:01.240 We know the secret. But it's that when you have 0:07:01.320 --> 0:07:04.000 someone coming in, like a new prospect, a lot of 0:07:04.080 --> 0:07:07.520 people won't even give us a fair shake because they 0:07:07.560 --> 0:07:10.040 just see the word budget. They're like, ah, I've done dieting, No, 0:07:10.200 --> 0:07:12.520 thank you, you know, that kind of a thing, And 0:07:12.840 --> 0:07:15.080 we just want to have them give us, i don't know, 0:07:15.280 --> 0:07:17.920 a minute more of attention. See if we can tell 0:07:17.960 --> 0:07:19.480 them like, no, no, what we really want is for 0:07:19.600 --> 0:07:22.720 you just to know what your money is for and 0:07:22.760 --> 0:07:25.240 to really get good at spending it. And that's really 0:07:25.280 --> 0:07:28.080 counter to what people think when they think budget. We'll 0:07:28.080 --> 0:07:30.400 see how it goes trying to rename ourselves with the 0:07:30.400 --> 0:07:32.080 budget word still in there, you know. 0:07:32.240 --> 0:07:34.160 Yeah, yeah, I was going to say, well, it's you know, 0:07:34.840 --> 0:07:37.120 kind of hard to move beyond something that's originally in 0:07:37.160 --> 0:07:40.520 your acronym. But but you talk about this that you 0:07:40.520 --> 0:07:43.200 know what is your money for, Like every decision is 0:07:43.640 --> 0:07:46.960 a spending decision, and that includes saving money. 0:07:47.040 --> 0:07:49.440 Is itself a spending decision? Can you talk about that? 0:07:49.880 --> 0:07:51.880 Yeah. A lot of times people will say, well, I'm 0:07:51.880 --> 0:07:53.600 going to save my money or I should save my money. 0:07:53.640 --> 0:07:54.920 They a lot of times have a little shame or 0:07:54.920 --> 0:07:56.840 a little guilt with it, like I wirren't I saving more? 0:07:57.080 --> 0:07:58.800 Or they'll save their money and then they'll spend that 0:07:58.840 --> 0:08:00.840 money and they'll be like, oh, I spend my savings. 0:08:01.400 --> 0:08:04.360 And you think about that, like that's a strange thing, 0:08:04.440 --> 0:08:07.840 like money can only ever be spent. Someone would say, well, no, Jesse, 0:08:07.880 --> 0:08:09.800 I'd give away some of my money. I don't spend it. 0:08:10.200 --> 0:08:13.280 But you actually give it away to the CEO of 0:08:13.320 --> 0:08:15.520 a charity and she spends it hopefully if she's doing 0:08:15.560 --> 0:08:18.080 her job right, she spends it really well. Right. So 0:08:18.640 --> 0:08:21.160 even when someone says well i'm investing, I'm not spending. 0:08:21.360 --> 0:08:24.160 You're just buying a stock. You're spending it on a 0:08:24.160 --> 0:08:26.520 stock or whatever, hoping it goes up in value so 0:08:26.560 --> 0:08:29.800 you can spend that. All of it is meant. Money 0:08:29.840 --> 0:08:32.959 is meant to be spent. And when we can recognize 0:08:32.960 --> 0:08:35.760 that the only the sole purpose of money is to 0:08:35.800 --> 0:08:38.480 be spent, then you you kind of break down the 0:08:38.520 --> 0:08:42.320 walls of like savings is better and I'm doing it well, 0:08:42.360 --> 0:08:44.840 if I'm saving a little, all you're doing is just 0:08:44.960 --> 0:08:47.960 deferring spending, and that's a great thing. You defer spending 0:08:47.960 --> 0:08:51.360 for Christmas, for a Disney vacation, for the Bahamas, for 0:08:51.400 --> 0:08:54.400 the Martine, like you defer spending for really good things, 0:08:54.440 --> 0:08:59.240 even you know, car tires, wearing out, buying a new car, braces, 0:08:59.240 --> 0:09:00.840 if you want to kind of make things sad for 0:09:00.880 --> 0:09:02.679 a moment. We do a lot of braces over here 0:09:02.720 --> 0:09:05.360 in our house, and so we're always spending money. 0:09:05.240 --> 0:09:06.840 Later spending money on braces. 0:09:06.920 --> 0:09:10.120 Yeah, absolutely, yeah, absolutely, well here too as well. 0:09:10.679 --> 0:09:12.760 So Jesse has seven kids. 0:09:12.520 --> 0:09:15.520 Right, yes, seven brace faces. I don't think you're allowed 0:09:15.520 --> 0:09:17.160 to call people of brace face anymore, but back in 0:09:17.200 --> 0:09:19.120 my day that was like something you were supposed to say. 0:09:19.440 --> 0:09:21.240 And yeah, we have seven of those, or we will 0:09:21.240 --> 0:09:22.199 at least at some point. 0:09:22.320 --> 0:09:24.440 So, yeah, it's a revolving door over here. We've got 0:09:24.440 --> 0:09:26.120 one kid getting them off and I think another getting 0:09:26.160 --> 0:09:27.320 them on within the next few weeks. 0:09:27.600 --> 0:09:30.320 When your orthodontist is sending you Christmas cards, you're like, 0:09:30.480 --> 0:09:31.480 I don't know about this. 0:09:32.320 --> 0:09:34.080 That's where my money is going all right. 0:09:34.240 --> 0:09:35.960 Well, we're gonna take a quick ad break and I'll 0:09:35.960 --> 0:09:45.480 be back with more from Jesse Meekham. Well, I am 0:09:45.559 --> 0:09:48.040 back talking with Jesse Meekham, who is the founder of 0:09:48.240 --> 0:09:51.360 Why Nab the author of the new book Never Worry 0:09:51.440 --> 0:09:56.280 About Money Again. So we we're talking about orthodontios being 0:09:57.320 --> 0:10:00.400 one of our favorite favorite things to spend money on. Jesse, 0:10:00.520 --> 0:10:02.640 what are your favorite things to spend money on? 0:10:02.960 --> 0:10:06.520 Woodworking? Can't you can't do enough of it. I don't 0:10:06.520 --> 0:10:08.440 even mind if I buy a tool and it gets 0:10:08.520 --> 0:10:11.600 dusty and I don't use it. I love knowing it's 0:10:11.600 --> 0:10:14.920 there just in case I see a YouTuber be like 0:10:15.160 --> 0:10:17.360 you're gonna need a Bodiga to do, you know, and 0:10:17.400 --> 0:10:19.520 I'll be like, oh, I have that. That to me 0:10:19.640 --> 0:10:23.679 brings so much unreasonable, irrational joy, And yeah I have. 0:10:23.960 --> 0:10:28.120 I know for a fact that I have something coming 0:10:28.280 --> 0:10:31.840 for a Father's Day event, and I was very specific. 0:10:31.880 --> 0:10:34.120 I'm telling Julie like, this is this is the tool 0:10:34.160 --> 0:10:37.000 I'm looking for, And I saw the receipt come through 0:10:37.040 --> 0:10:39.080 the software. So I'm pretty jazzed about that, you know, 0:10:39.120 --> 0:10:41.640 But I can't get enough of it. As a family 0:10:41.679 --> 0:10:43.840 travels a big one for us. We would much rather 0:10:44.559 --> 0:10:47.520 have these experiential things. So we keep things pretty simple 0:10:47.559 --> 0:10:50.679 as far as I mean, minus the woodshop, as far 0:10:50.679 --> 0:10:53.920 as you know, buying like physical things as a family. 0:10:54.400 --> 0:10:58.040 But travel, we can't get enough of that. Like it's 0:10:58.080 --> 0:11:00.280 just I don't know, I just have never ended trip 0:11:00.280 --> 0:11:02.360 and been like, boy, I'm sad I spent money on that. 0:11:02.679 --> 0:11:03.440 It just hasn't happened. 0:11:03.480 --> 0:11:05.439 Where have you gone recently as a family that's been 0:11:05.440 --> 0:11:06.040 fun for you guys? 0:11:06.040 --> 0:11:09.760 Wellow a year ago we did a big Europe trip 0:11:10.000 --> 0:11:11.959 and we didn't bring everyone. We didn't bring the college 0:11:12.040 --> 0:11:14.360 kid because he's in college and you know, he's got 0:11:14.360 --> 0:11:17.960 his own thing going. But we hit Normandy, which I'd 0:11:18.000 --> 0:11:20.600 never been to before, and the tours are amazing. We 0:11:20.640 --> 0:11:22.960 did Berlin, so we were kind of Western Front Eastern 0:11:23.000 --> 0:11:25.880 Front World War two history. I speak German and so 0:11:25.960 --> 0:11:28.839 going to Berlin was fun. We had a killer tour 0:11:29.280 --> 0:11:31.680 from a man who grew up was born in western 0:11:31.679 --> 0:11:34.400 Berlin and was twenty when the wall came down, And 0:11:34.480 --> 0:11:36.280 so my kids are sitting there hearing from this man 0:11:36.320 --> 0:11:39.360 that lived it. It was just it was one of 0:11:39.400 --> 0:11:41.480 a kind. My brother was stationed in Stuttgart, so we 0:11:41.480 --> 0:11:43.120 went and visited him, and then we topped it off 0:11:43.160 --> 0:11:47.320 down in Switzerland where it's just otherworldly as far as 0:11:47.360 --> 0:11:49.520 beauty goes. So I mean, you can even hear to 0:11:49.559 --> 0:11:51.920 my voice now, like I am so glad we went like, 0:11:52.280 --> 0:11:54.240 I don't want the money back. I wouldn't take the 0:11:54.280 --> 0:11:57.800 money back at no chance. We want those those memories. 0:11:57.800 --> 0:12:01.240 So that's been a good one. But also we've camped 0:12:01.280 --> 0:12:05.160 where it's just the opposite of expensive, and those are great, 0:12:05.360 --> 0:12:08.760 Like just the intention of time spent with each other, 0:12:08.960 --> 0:12:11.600 away from chores, away from the house, away from the 0:12:11.960 --> 0:12:14.280 normal routine. That's that's the magic. You don't have to 0:12:14.320 --> 0:12:16.400 do Europe. You can pull that off in a lot 0:12:16.440 --> 0:12:18.880 of other ways. We did a South Dakota road trip 0:12:18.920 --> 0:12:22.120 a little while ago. We're in Utah, and it was excellent, 0:12:22.800 --> 0:12:27.080 excellent and just so much fun. So any kind of travel, 0:12:27.120 --> 0:12:28.760 any kind of getting out of the routine with the 0:12:28.840 --> 0:12:29.640 kids is a win. 0:12:30.640 --> 0:12:32.120 I was gonna say, camping is one of those things 0:12:32.120 --> 0:12:34.520 that can also wind up being expensive because you buy 0:12:34.559 --> 0:12:35.960 things that's sort of the same way that you buy 0:12:35.960 --> 0:12:39.400 woodworking tools, like no, no, I need a titanium pot. 0:12:39.679 --> 0:12:42.840 Yes, yeah, it must weigh so little. I don't know 0:12:42.880 --> 0:12:46.160 I'm holding it. That's kind of the idea, you know, packing, 0:12:46.320 --> 0:12:47.439 Like when I go back to guy, I am in 0:12:47.480 --> 0:12:50.600 a little bit of a gearhead camping. It's more of 0:12:50.679 --> 0:12:52.840 like a car camping vibe, and you can get away 0:12:52.840 --> 0:12:53.920 with a little stuff being a. 0:12:53.880 --> 0:12:56.000 Little heavier, you know, being a little heavier. So what 0:12:56.240 --> 0:12:57.920 do you like to make in terms of woodworking? What's 0:12:57.960 --> 0:12:59.000 something you've made recently? 0:12:59.280 --> 0:13:02.920 The most recent my my daughter's leaving on a church mission. 0:13:03.000 --> 0:13:05.360 She'll be gone for eighteen months, and I made her 0:13:05.440 --> 0:13:08.120 a hope chest, which is not really a thing anymore, 0:13:09.400 --> 0:13:12.120 but I was like, I want to give it to her, 0:13:12.160 --> 0:13:14.559 and I gave it to her empty, you know, it 0:13:14.679 --> 0:13:18.160 was just the chest. And the thing that's cool about 0:13:18.200 --> 0:13:21.600 making something for someone is while you're making it over 0:13:21.720 --> 0:13:23.800 weeks and I'm slow and not good at it, so 0:13:23.840 --> 0:13:26.839 it takes me a long time. But as you're making 0:13:26.880 --> 0:13:28.880 this thing for a person, you do think about the 0:13:28.920 --> 0:13:31.520 person more. And that was exactly what I wanted. I 0:13:31.520 --> 0:13:33.840 wanted to think about her while I was making this 0:13:33.880 --> 0:13:36.480 hope chest, and it's one of those things where I 0:13:36.520 --> 0:13:38.360 think she was kind of like, wow, this is neat, 0:13:39.080 --> 0:13:43.199 and then my six year old goes Lydia. Dad has 0:13:43.240 --> 0:13:45.640 been working on that for so long because he had 0:13:45.679 --> 0:13:47.120 been in the shop a lot with me, you know, 0:13:47.160 --> 0:13:49.760 he knew it was a secret, and that was pretty 0:13:49.760 --> 0:13:51.880 gratifying for him to just kind of vouch for me, Like, 0:13:51.960 --> 0:13:56.280 Dad's put some effort into that. So that's not just neat. 0:13:56.720 --> 0:13:59.199 I pick projects based on what tool I want to 0:13:59.280 --> 0:14:00.840 learn how to use most of the time. 0:14:01.200 --> 0:14:03.560 So yeah, yeah, so I have a question. 0:14:03.760 --> 0:14:06.040 So let's say somebody has this thing they love to 0:14:06.040 --> 0:14:09.440 spend money on. Yeah, and an honest accounting is that 0:14:09.480 --> 0:14:14.439 their current resources maybe are not sufficient to spend in 0:14:14.520 --> 0:14:16.520 this level that they would like to, whether it be travel, 0:14:16.640 --> 0:14:19.440 would working, camping, whatever it happens to be. 0:14:20.280 --> 0:14:23.040 What are some steps you can do to deal with that. 0:14:23.560 --> 0:14:25.400 So most of the time people will come at this 0:14:25.440 --> 0:14:29.840 and they'll say, I want to spend here, but I can't. 0:14:30.720 --> 0:14:35.400 And it's amazing that people don't often think where could 0:14:35.400 --> 0:14:38.280 I not spend in order to do this? So they 0:14:38.600 --> 0:14:41.280 almost they look at they take their full accounting and 0:14:41.320 --> 0:14:43.640 honest accounting, as you said, they look at They're like, wow, 0:14:43.640 --> 0:14:46.920 everything's spoken for, and so they immediately say, I cannot 0:14:46.920 --> 0:14:49.320 do this thing that I wish I could do, And 0:14:49.360 --> 0:14:51.360 all they need to do is just flip it a 0:14:51.400 --> 0:14:54.000 little bit and say what should I give up so 0:14:54.040 --> 0:14:56.960 I can do that thing. It may be true that 0:14:57.080 --> 0:15:00.200 in the moment, in this very moment, you can't give 0:15:00.280 --> 0:15:02.920 up anything like everything's pretty fixed and firm, So you 0:15:02.960 --> 0:15:04.200 have to kind of treat it as a little bit 0:15:04.240 --> 0:15:07.280 of a process. In accounting, you have fixed expenses and 0:15:07.360 --> 0:15:11.440 variable expenses, but we learn that over time all expenses 0:15:11.600 --> 0:15:15.560 are variable expenses. So you can start to look at 0:15:15.600 --> 0:15:18.480 the structure and these things that appear fixed and not 0:15:18.560 --> 0:15:20.680 really moveable, and you can say, now I could make 0:15:20.760 --> 0:15:23.960 some changes and actually be able to spend on this thing. 0:15:24.040 --> 0:15:25.960 So I would encourage people just to turn around and 0:15:25.960 --> 0:15:28.600 say what could I not spend on so I can 0:15:28.640 --> 0:15:32.880 spend over here? Because they will find things, most of 0:15:32.920 --> 0:15:36.200 the not most every time I've talked to someone, they 0:15:36.280 --> 0:15:39.400 find things when they do that honest accounting where they're like, hmmm, 0:15:39.600 --> 0:15:41.880 I don't really actually care about where that money's going, 0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:44.280 and they realize that some of their money shouldn't be 0:15:44.360 --> 0:15:46.880 for that, and we haven't said don't spend on that, 0:15:46.960 --> 0:15:49.280 don't spend on this. What they're doing is they're just 0:15:49.360 --> 0:15:52.560 asking themselves the question of what is this precious resource 0:15:52.600 --> 0:15:55.640 that I earn? What is it for? And when they're 0:15:55.680 --> 0:15:58.360 asking that, they're answering it. And answering it gives them 0:15:58.360 --> 0:16:00.480 this resolve that they haven't felt yet, gives them this 0:16:00.600 --> 0:16:03.160 agency of like, oh no, I can start to take control. 0:16:03.760 --> 0:16:05.920 It's the beginning of the end of worry. There. 0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:07.280 Excellent. 0:16:07.520 --> 0:16:09.160 Well, we're going to take one more quick ad break 0:16:09.160 --> 0:16:18.560 and then I'll be back with more from Jesse Meekham. Well, 0:16:18.600 --> 0:16:22.080 I am back talking with Jesse Meekham, who is the 0:16:22.120 --> 0:16:27.760 author of the brand new book Never Worry About Money Again. So, Jesse, 0:16:27.920 --> 0:16:30.040 do you have a morning routine? This is a show 0:16:30.040 --> 0:16:32.360 called Before Breakfast. So I'm always they're curious if people 0:16:32.400 --> 0:16:33.720 do special things in the morning. 0:16:34.640 --> 0:16:37.280 I slowly get out of bed, like I lay there 0:16:37.280 --> 0:16:38.960 for a little bit. I don't pop right out. I 0:16:39.000 --> 0:16:41.640 used to pop out. There's not as much popping, but 0:16:42.080 --> 0:16:46.320 I'm an early riser, and so alarm goes off. I 0:16:46.480 --> 0:16:49.280 lay there for a little bit. I get up and 0:16:49.720 --> 0:16:52.360 get ready to work out, but I don't go work out. 0:16:52.400 --> 0:16:54.120 I actually come into my office and read for a 0:16:54.160 --> 0:16:59.120 little while. Usually thirty minutes or so, and then I 0:16:59.200 --> 0:17:03.840 work out and after that then it starts to become 0:17:03.880 --> 0:17:06.119 not my routine and kind of the family routine. But 0:17:06.480 --> 0:17:09.920 that little bit's pretty fixed. I have a killer post 0:17:09.960 --> 0:17:13.360 workout drink, and that's about the end of my you know, 0:17:13.720 --> 0:17:15.880 dead set routine, and then the day. 0:17:15.840 --> 0:17:19.560 Starts a killer I'm curious, though, what is this killer drink? 0:17:19.640 --> 0:17:22.400 Yeah, it's the most boring, but it's worked very well 0:17:22.440 --> 0:17:25.679 for me. Dextros and some protein powder. There's a formula 0:17:25.760 --> 0:17:27.880 for how much dextross you should use. Don't do too much. 0:17:28.080 --> 0:17:31.679 It's just a sweetener, but it like kind of refills you. 0:17:31.720 --> 0:17:34.080 It's like your body's kind of waiting for like all 0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:36.639 this nourishment right after you you've lifted hard, and so 0:17:36.680 --> 0:17:38.199 the body is kind of prime for it. So you 0:17:38.240 --> 0:17:41.000 just give it what it wants and your recovery, the 0:17:41.040 --> 0:17:43.159 recovery has just been tremendous. So a little bit of 0:17:43.200 --> 0:17:47.040 dextros some protein. I got it from a book called 0:17:47.080 --> 0:17:50.879 Better Than Steroids about food, and I don't know if 0:17:50.880 --> 0:17:52.879 it's better than steroids, but it has done pretty well 0:17:52.920 --> 0:17:53.080 for me. 0:17:53.240 --> 0:17:55.800 But it's probably better for you than steroids for sure. 0:17:56.640 --> 0:17:58.879 So with with seven kids, I wonder if you have 0:17:58.880 --> 0:18:02.399 any sort of large family organization hacks like things that 0:18:02.480 --> 0:18:05.600 make a household life run more smoothly for you guys. 0:18:07.080 --> 0:18:09.920 I don't want to be like a naysayer on things, 0:18:09.960 --> 0:18:12.600 but if you have a lot of kids, and I 0:18:12.640 --> 0:18:15.679 mean like more than one feels like a lot, you know, 0:18:15.720 --> 0:18:17.679 with seven, people are like, wow, that's a lot. I 0:18:17.680 --> 0:18:19.520 think two is a lot. I think one is a lot. 0:18:19.520 --> 0:18:22.040 If you're in charge of a human that's a lot, 0:18:22.200 --> 0:18:25.719 you know. But I would have people consider being what 0:18:25.800 --> 0:18:30.119 I call a rec league family. Like you don't have 0:18:30.200 --> 0:18:33.920 to have your kids specialize in a sport. You don't 0:18:33.960 --> 0:18:36.080 have to have them get a trainer and a tutor, 0:18:36.560 --> 0:18:38.800 you don't have to travel, you don't have to do 0:18:38.840 --> 0:18:40.840 any of those things. It can feel like you do, 0:18:41.119 --> 0:18:43.080 at least in our area where we live, in this 0:18:43.160 --> 0:18:46.200 kind of suburbia ho home place, it can feel that way. 0:18:46.920 --> 0:18:48.960 And we've just chosen to be a rec league family 0:18:49.000 --> 0:18:53.080 where your kid goes maybe doesn't even practice, and they 0:18:53.160 --> 0:18:56.119 just play the basketball games and win or lose, and 0:18:56.400 --> 0:19:00.639 everyone else cares equally little about it, and the kids 0:19:00.680 --> 0:19:03.679 have fun and the refs are fourteen years old. And 0:19:03.840 --> 0:19:07.639 you're it just feels it feels the right size for 0:19:07.920 --> 0:19:11.200 our family, I guess. But it keeps commitments down. And 0:19:11.640 --> 0:19:14.240 I mean we realized early on, if every kid does 0:19:14.320 --> 0:19:17.760 one sport every season, Julie and I will never see 0:19:17.760 --> 0:19:20.359 each other like we unless we hired an army of 0:19:20.440 --> 0:19:24.800