WEBVTT - 2025 Update: Dina 0:00:15.210 --> 0:00:22.050 Pushkin Khalila Holt, Welcome to the studio. 0:00:22.410 --> 0:00:22.810 Thanks. 0:00:22.930 --> 0:00:28.090 Today's Encore presentation is an episode called Dina. Spoiler alert. 0:00:28.290 --> 0:00:29.130 You know who Dina is? 0:00:29.450 --> 0:00:29.970 Your mom? 0:00:30.170 --> 0:00:30.850 She's my mother. 0:00:31.250 --> 0:00:32.050 Yeah, that's right. 0:00:32.170 --> 0:00:35.090 Even I have a mother, Khila Holt. You know when 0:00:35.090 --> 0:00:36.769 you like call me like, what is it? You call 0:00:36.810 --> 0:00:41.210 me a motherless cuss sometimes when you get upset. No, 0:00:41.370 --> 0:00:44.090 this episode is about my mother. What do you remember 0:00:44.090 --> 0:00:44.850 about the production? 0:00:45.170 --> 0:00:47.489 I remember it, and I hope I'm not speaking out 0:00:47.530 --> 0:00:50.129 of turn, no please, but I remember it being like 0:00:50.129 --> 0:00:52.010 an emotional one for you to work on, like there 0:00:52.090 --> 0:00:53.489 was a lot you had to delve into. 0:00:54.209 --> 0:00:57.850 Yeah, that's true. My wife Emily was like, you know, 0:00:57.930 --> 0:01:01.009 you're doing all these episodes about other people and intimate 0:01:01.050 --> 0:01:03.530 moments from their lives. You have to have a little 0:01:03.569 --> 0:01:07.810 skin in the game. And yeah, it was kind of scary, 0:01:07.890 --> 0:01:11.410 but I came out the other end stronger and jollier 0:01:12.050 --> 0:01:13.170 and balder than ever. 0:01:14.730 --> 0:01:17.450 And if our listeners come out the other end of 0:01:17.490 --> 0:01:20.450 this episode, they'll get to hear an update from Dina 0:01:20.530 --> 0:01:22.210 herself on her birthday. 0:01:22.650 --> 0:01:25.289 That's right. Yeah, I talked to my mother to catch 0:01:25.370 --> 0:01:29.930 up with her on her various projects. So let's get 0:01:30.010 --> 0:01:33.890 ready to listen voraciously. I'm ready, but before we do, 0:01:34.170 --> 0:01:35.810 let's hear a word from our sponsors. 0:01:36.010 --> 0:01:45.890 Thanks sponsors, Yello. 0:01:46.410 --> 0:01:50.890 Why hello? Now, what kind of greeting is that you've 0:01:50.890 --> 0:01:53.610 got your radio voice on? Could you elaborate on what 0:01:53.650 --> 0:01:54.130 you mean by that? 0:01:54.250 --> 0:01:56.810 I know in the first second if I'm being recorded, 0:01:56.890 --> 0:01:59.410 or I could on your inflections? 0:01:59.490 --> 0:02:03.290 Well, I always talk like this, Jackie. Back to you. 0:02:03.450 --> 0:02:05.050 The way you're speaking with me now is never the 0:02:05.050 --> 0:02:07.650 way you would normally speak. Okay, wait, hang on a second, 0:02:07.650 --> 0:02:11.970 I'm just talking normal. You're not talking normal your radio voice. 0:02:12.049 --> 0:02:13.930 Hey, what's going on? It's still not. 0:02:14.010 --> 0:02:15.570 It's still not. It's still not. 0:02:16.210 --> 0:02:16.450 Hey. 0:02:16.930 --> 0:02:20.170 No, hey Jackie again Jackie, No, you wouldn't say him 0:02:20.210 --> 0:02:20.370 like that. 0:02:20.570 --> 0:02:21.130 How's it going? 0:02:21.210 --> 0:02:21.930 Too much energy? 0:02:22.290 --> 0:02:22.450 Hi? 0:02:22.930 --> 0:02:24.290 I can tell anyway. 0:02:24.370 --> 0:02:26.930 It can't be a radio voice because I do a podcast. 0:02:27.170 --> 0:02:31.210 It's a podcast voice, all right, And welcome to the 0:02:31.250 --> 0:02:41.130 show from Gimblet Media. I'm Jonathan Goldstein and this is 0:02:41.210 --> 0:03:00.970 Heavyweight Today's episode. Dina. Hello, Hello, Okay, uh so we 0:03:01.050 --> 0:03:01.970 just got to Montreal. 0:03:02.890 --> 0:03:04.250 We wee? What's that? 0:03:05.010 --> 0:03:05.250 Is that? 0:03:05.290 --> 0:03:06.609 How you say yes in French? 0:03:06.970 --> 0:03:08.769 Yeah? But you just say it once you to say, 0:03:08.810 --> 0:03:10.090 we wit. 0:03:11.930 --> 0:03:14.370 Folks are about to meet us, pick us up at 0:03:14.410 --> 0:03:17.370 the airport to take us back to their place, where 0:03:17.490 --> 0:03:23.050 we will be staying for the next five days, five days, 0:03:23.690 --> 0:03:26.770 five days in my childhood home, in the childhood bed 0:03:26.850 --> 0:03:30.010 i've not slept in in decades. My wife Emily and 0:03:30.050 --> 0:03:33.370 I are here for passover, to sup upon the bread 0:03:33.370 --> 0:03:37.370 of affliction. Growing up, though, it was everything of affliction, 0:03:37.970 --> 0:03:42.850 candy corn of affliction, road trips of affliction, bedtime stories 0:03:42.850 --> 0:03:51.570 of affliction. I moved out when I was nineteen, but 0:03:51.650 --> 0:03:54.930 from age one to eighteen, what I remember most is 0:03:54.930 --> 0:03:58.890 the vague feeling of worry permeating the household. Worry that 0:03:59.050 --> 0:04:03.730 manifested is yelling, yelling through closed doors, yelling across the 0:04:03.810 --> 0:04:07.850 kitchen table, my father yelling into a junk drawer, desperately 0:04:07.890 --> 0:04:11.210 trying to find a working pen. My mother yelling into 0:04:11.290 --> 0:04:14.530 a clogged toilet, desperately trying to make it go down. 0:04:15.610 --> 0:04:18.849 But more often than not, the yelling wasn't over anything 0:04:18.890 --> 0:04:22.409 at all. We were just a naturally loud, anxious family, 0:04:23.010 --> 0:04:26.689 a race of nervous giants shrunk into the bodies of 0:04:26.770 --> 0:04:33.409 little Jews. 0:04:37.250 --> 0:04:37.570 Man. 0:04:37.770 --> 0:04:40.409 When I move out of here, I'd say in my teens, 0:04:40.810 --> 0:04:45.409 I'm going to live like sting peace and quiet, meditation, 0:04:45.890 --> 0:04:50.969 tea and tantric sex. And now, after years of oolong 0:04:51.130 --> 0:04:55.249 roubis and lemon roubis, I'm home again for my first 0:04:55.250 --> 0:04:59.610 trip back with Emily and our five month old son Agi. 0:05:02.890 --> 0:05:03.450 Day one. 0:05:04.409 --> 0:05:08.010 Here they are my parents. Tyota pulls up to the 0:05:08.049 --> 0:05:11.930 airport pickup. They pass us and passes us. 0:05:12.010 --> 0:05:15.370 Try to catch the eye. They don't see us here. 0:05:16.450 --> 0:05:17.729 We're right here. 0:05:18.690 --> 0:05:24.049 My mother jumps out. She runs back towards us, pointing 0:05:24.049 --> 0:05:25.010 at Oggie's ears. 0:05:25.169 --> 0:05:26.490 His ears are exposed. 0:05:26.729 --> 0:05:30.890 Hi, Hi, emily ears are exposed. 0:05:32.409 --> 0:05:35.249 Both my mother and father where their woolen caps pull 0:05:35.369 --> 0:05:39.409 down well past their ears. In younger, stronger days, they 0:05:39.489 --> 0:05:42.169 might have stretched those caps right down over their feet, 0:05:42.690 --> 0:05:46.369 but they're old now. My mother Dina seventy two, and 0:05:46.450 --> 0:05:48.409 my father Buzz eighty three. 0:05:49.250 --> 0:05:51.089 I want to drive slowly, not too fast. 0:05:51.169 --> 0:05:52.770 I want to go carefully. 0:05:52.450 --> 0:05:59.529 Okay while Buzz is high strung. Dina's intensity is capable 0:05:59.529 --> 0:06:03.249 of raising the emotional temperature of any space she occupies 0:06:03.929 --> 0:06:08.210 in elevators, walk in pantries, and tiotas. Her powers are 0:06:08.289 --> 0:06:10.729 especially cute, like. 0:06:10.729 --> 0:06:15.770 A funny feeling in my throat, like it's like really emotional. 0:06:16.849 --> 0:06:20.010 It's like a dreamed you know, it's like a dream. 0:06:20.529 --> 0:06:23.170 Yeah, it's like such a weird feeling. 0:06:23.849 --> 0:06:26.929 I think the weird, elusive feeling my mother is trying 0:06:26.969 --> 0:06:29.010 to describe is happiness. 0:06:29.969 --> 0:06:31.969 It's just wonderful to see him. 0:06:32.210 --> 0:06:33.810 But I hope he's going to be warm enough. Did 0:06:33.849 --> 0:06:36.049 you bring him up something? 0:06:43.130 --> 0:06:43.290 Home? 0:06:43.369 --> 0:06:46.210 Sweet home? 0:06:47.049 --> 0:06:49.569 Walking through the door, I'm a twelve year old again, 0:06:49.969 --> 0:06:52.890 home from school and looking forward to zoning out with 0:06:52.969 --> 0:06:56.890 petticoat junction. I'm a sixteen year old rushing to the 0:06:56.929 --> 0:07:00.489 bathroom to gargle out the smell of cigarettes. I'm a 0:07:00.529 --> 0:07:03.409 forty eight year old, a grown ass man with a 0:07:03.409 --> 0:07:07.130 grown ass ass. Parenting a newborn leaves a person with 0:07:07.210 --> 0:07:10.810 no time for squats. So don't judge Alex. 0:07:11.929 --> 0:07:12.850 So nice in here. 0:07:14.410 --> 0:07:16.250 I don't believe it. 0:07:17.010 --> 0:07:20.850 Normally, the house, a modest, semi detached bungalow, has a 0:07:20.890 --> 0:07:25.850 certain storage unit, bombshelter, vibe, walls of toilet paper, a 0:07:25.929 --> 0:07:29.530 cold room full of canned fruit, cocktail needle points of 0:07:29.570 --> 0:07:33.410 biblical scenes, and torreadors all leaned up against the walls 0:07:33.570 --> 0:07:36.810 for fear of pounding in a nail and regretting it forever. 0:07:37.810 --> 0:07:40.770 But today the place looks positively sparse. 0:07:41.929 --> 0:07:45.009 Johnny, Just don't open a closet or in shore everything. 0:07:45.010 --> 0:07:46.370 I'll tumble on your head. 0:07:46.330 --> 0:07:48.610 Because when you've heard you guys are coming. 0:07:48.690 --> 0:07:51.809 I threw everything into the into the closets and hid them. 0:07:52.290 --> 0:07:55.530 My mother grabs Aggie and heads upstairs for a diaper change. 0:07:55.810 --> 0:07:57.170 Emily and I trail behind. 0:07:58.210 --> 0:08:00.569 I want him to be fresh and clean. Oh you're 0:08:00.650 --> 0:08:05.970 so sweet, You're so sweet, my angel. Where the fridge 0:08:05.970 --> 0:08:06.570 is the bag? 0:08:07.170 --> 0:08:10.770 The friggin bag contains the friggin's that my mother bought 0:08:10.770 --> 0:08:14.170 for our visit. It turns out it's on her lap. 0:08:15.290 --> 0:08:17.129 I kept the bill because I wasn't sure if you 0:08:17.170 --> 0:08:18.410 want me to return them or not. 0:08:20.050 --> 0:08:22.170 Would you be able to return used diapers? 0:08:22.610 --> 0:08:25.890 Yeah, you know me. I could return anything. I could 0:08:25.929 --> 0:08:26.850 return anything. 0:08:28.010 --> 0:08:32.610 You know that, Johnny, I do know that returning stuff 0:08:32.650 --> 0:08:35.250 is what my mother lives for. She sees it as 0:08:35.290 --> 0:08:38.970 a staring contest, a game of chess, but with yelling. 0:08:39.929 --> 0:08:42.570 I remember once going along with her as she returned 0:08:42.610 --> 0:08:46.170 a shirt she'd bought for my father two years earlier. 0:08:49.330 --> 0:08:53.490 It's missing a sleeve, she told the cashier, holding up 0:08:53.530 --> 0:08:57.090 the article of clothing. The cashier turned it around and around. 0:08:57.890 --> 0:09:01.250 It's not supposed to have sleeves. The cashier finally said, 0:09:01.890 --> 0:09:06.690 it's a poncho. A poncho, my mother repeated, as though 0:09:06.690 --> 0:09:10.170 it were a foreign word, which in her I suppose 0:09:10.210 --> 0:09:13.090 it sort of is. I don't care what it is. 0:09:13.570 --> 0:09:22.490 It's factory defective and my husband can't wear it. Whenever 0:09:22.530 --> 0:09:25.370 she'd get this way, I'd adopt the stance meant to 0:09:25.410 --> 0:09:29.250 convey filial loyalty, peppered with a touch of what Vietnam 0:09:29.370 --> 0:09:33.650 vets call the thousand yards stare. I've stood next to 0:09:33.690 --> 0:09:38.770 my mother through countless exchanges, arguments, spectacles and stinks. But 0:09:38.850 --> 0:09:41.010 this is the first time I've stood by her side 0:09:41.530 --> 0:09:42.730 as she diapers my son. 0:09:43.690 --> 0:09:45.330 Oh look how much peep he has. 0:09:46.130 --> 0:09:48.570 Oh, you made a lot of ppa baby. 0:09:50.570 --> 0:09:52.410 See that's how I knew you were sick. When you 0:09:52.410 --> 0:09:54.210 were a baby, Johnny, you weren't peeping. 0:09:55.610 --> 0:09:56.410 What was wrong with me? 0:09:57.050 --> 0:09:59.490 As a kid, it was easy to be embarrassed by 0:09:59.490 --> 0:10:03.330 my mother. One time, a popular boy named Jordie showed 0:10:03.370 --> 0:10:06.330 up at our house. I wasn't home, but my mother 0:10:06.410 --> 0:10:11.290 answered the door with her hair on fire. My hair's 0:10:11.370 --> 0:10:15.890 on fire, she screamed. The next day in school, Geordie 0:10:15.890 --> 0:10:18.970 showed the whole class how she screamed it. He wiggled 0:10:18.970 --> 0:10:21.370 his fingers in the air, looking as though he was 0:10:21.410 --> 0:10:25.130 about to fall to his knees. That night, I asked 0:10:25.130 --> 0:10:29.210 my mother what had happened. It was the barbecue, she said, 0:10:29.650 --> 0:10:31.810 your father wasn't home, and I was so in the 0:10:31.850 --> 0:10:36.090 mood for barbecued lamb chops. It seems that while examining 0:10:36.130 --> 0:10:39.330 the chops for signs of spoilage, she leaned her hair 0:10:39.370 --> 0:10:43.490 sprayed boufont too close to the grill. While this explained 0:10:43.530 --> 0:10:46.410 the fire atop her head, it did not explain why 0:10:46.450 --> 0:10:49.530 she answered the door while nursing a fire atop her head. 0:10:51.330 --> 0:10:53.970 Growing up, this kind of stuff happened all the time, 0:10:54.490 --> 0:10:57.890 so I was always on high alert for humiliating emergencies. 0:10:58.530 --> 0:11:01.290 Being back home again, I feel the old muscle memory 0:11:01.370 --> 0:11:03.290 kicked back in. What's that smells? 0:11:03.730 --> 0:11:04.530 Something's burning? 0:11:05.530 --> 0:11:06.450 Did you turn on the heater? 0:11:06.650 --> 0:11:07.690 Did you touch the heat? 0:11:07.770 --> 0:11:08.050 Though? 0:11:08.930 --> 0:11:11.410 It turns out that one of the rag dolls my 0:11:11.490 --> 0:11:14.170 mother had been hoarding somehow landed onto one of the 0:11:14.210 --> 0:11:17.170 old lamps she'd been hoarding, and had begun to burn, 0:11:19.130 --> 0:11:19.610 I could. 0:11:19.450 --> 0:11:22.290 Have had a fire because I was so careless for 0:11:22.490 --> 0:11:23.810 a hush shim rush. 0:11:24.050 --> 0:11:27.370 The day plays out as a series of minor disasters averted. 0:11:28.170 --> 0:11:31.210 In the morning, my mother loses her cell phone. We 0:11:31.330 --> 0:11:34.450 find it in the night table. In the afternoon, a 0:11:34.490 --> 0:11:37.690 screw to my father's glasses falls out. We replace it 0:11:37.730 --> 0:11:41.090 with a twist tie. At dinner, a waiter charges my 0:11:41.130 --> 0:11:44.210 mother for a potato. She claims she didn't order, but 0:11:44.290 --> 0:11:48.690 after ten minutes of Camp David's style negotiations, it's dropped 0:11:48.690 --> 0:11:53.290 from the bill. Before bed, my father can't find his passport. 0:11:53.850 --> 0:11:56.890 Why do you need a passport? I ask, You always 0:11:56.930 --> 0:12:00.090 need a passport, he says. We find it in the 0:12:00.170 --> 0:12:04.370 night table. In the past, having someone witness all of 0:12:04.410 --> 0:12:08.330 this would have made me feel anxious, But now having 0:12:08.330 --> 0:12:10.770 Emily here makes me feel like I have an ally. 0:12:11.650 --> 0:12:14.090 Turning to her in the midst of some crisis is 0:12:14.130 --> 0:12:17.890 like looking directly into the TV camera and winking. 0:12:17.490 --> 0:12:25.210 At the audience. N Doggy. 0:12:26.490 --> 0:12:32.730 Day two good. After we put Aggie to sleep, Emily 0:12:32.770 --> 0:12:35.610 and I lie in bed. I ask for her thoughts 0:12:35.690 --> 0:12:37.450 and reflections on the trip so far. 0:12:41.130 --> 0:12:41.890 No comment. 0:12:42.090 --> 0:12:47.410 Oh, come on, come on, no comment. How could she resist? 0:12:48.210 --> 0:12:50.410 Look at how my mother acts with Aggie, I say, 0:12:50.570 --> 0:12:53.170 trying to get Emily going. I saw her put a 0:12:53.210 --> 0:12:55.810 pocket mirror under his nose while he was sleeping, to 0:12:55.810 --> 0:12:59.170 see if he was still breathing. After every spoonful she 0:12:59.210 --> 0:13:01.450 feeds him, she asks if he's choking. 0:13:02.330 --> 0:13:05.490 You realize, though, that you say all that about Aggie 0:13:05.530 --> 0:13:08.570 now too, like just a tiny little cough, and you 0:13:08.650 --> 0:13:09.930 are doing it. 0:13:09.970 --> 0:13:10.650 Is he breathing? 0:13:11.050 --> 0:13:13.410 Can he sit like that? Can he touch that thing? 0:13:13.810 --> 0:13:15.730 Can he eat that? Can he do that? Is he 0:13:15.770 --> 0:13:16.850 supposed to be doing that? 0:13:17.130 --> 0:13:19.570 What's wrong? What's wrong? What's wrong? What's he doing? What's 0:13:19.570 --> 0:13:20.610 he doing? Is he choking? 0:13:20.650 --> 0:13:21.130 What's wrong? 0:13:22.250 --> 0:13:23.570 You do a lot of that kind of thing. 0:13:25.050 --> 0:13:27.930 I concede to Emily that maybe I do just a 0:13:28.010 --> 0:13:30.650 little of that kind of thing. But I wasn't even 0:13:30.650 --> 0:13:33.530 in the parking lot of the ballpark of Adina Goldstein. 0:13:38.210 --> 0:13:43.450 One day you dropped, You dropped Aggie off, and you 0:13:43.530 --> 0:13:47.330 called me right afterward because you were so worried. 0:13:47.410 --> 0:13:51.930 You remember this, I do remember this. It was Aggie's 0:13:51.970 --> 0:13:55.170 first week of daycare. He shares a babysitter with two 0:13:55.210 --> 0:13:58.850 little sisters. But on that particular morning, when the babysitter 0:13:58.930 --> 0:14:02.450 opened the door, she was alone. She told me the 0:14:02.490 --> 0:14:04.650 girls were napping in another room. 0:14:05.330 --> 0:14:08.450 You called me and said she was there alone. 0:14:08.570 --> 0:14:09.810 She said, were in bed. 0:14:10.250 --> 0:14:12.690 I don't know. Maybe she killed the whole family and 0:14:12.890 --> 0:14:16.370 now she's going to kill OGGI and you weren't joking, 0:14:17.050 --> 0:14:20.450 like you knew it was a crazy thought, but you 0:14:20.650 --> 0:14:24.330 needed me to tell you she didn't kill her family. 0:14:24.410 --> 0:14:25.730 She's not gonna kill Aggie. 0:14:26.370 --> 0:14:28.730 I did not need you to tell me that. 0:14:29.250 --> 0:14:32.170 And you're misremembering you were freaked out. 0:14:33.210 --> 0:14:34.290 You were freaked out. 0:14:34.530 --> 0:14:35.650 I thought it was very stoic. 0:14:36.890 --> 0:14:39.050 You called me and said, I think the nanny is 0:14:39.090 --> 0:14:42.370 gonna murder our child, and that she murdered the whole family. 0:14:42.050 --> 0:14:43.450 That we do daycare with. 0:14:44.050 --> 0:14:47.330 I don't consider that stoic, all right. 0:14:47.410 --> 0:14:48.730 I mean, I'm just imaginative. 0:14:50.610 --> 0:14:51.850 That's one way to look at it. 0:14:53.090 --> 0:14:55.370 Yet another way to look at it is that I'm 0:14:55.410 --> 0:15:00.210 also crazy, just like my mom. Well, set my hair 0:15:00.250 --> 0:15:08.930 on fire and open the front door. In the days 0:15:09.130 --> 0:15:13.290 after Aggie was born, I couldn't stop thinking terrible thoughts things. 0:15:13.330 --> 0:15:16.970 I couldn't speak, not even to Emily. With this new 0:15:17.010 --> 0:15:21.250 overwhelming love for my son came new overwhelming fears for 0:15:21.330 --> 0:15:25.210 his safety, his heartbreaks to come, for his old age, 0:15:25.770 --> 0:15:30.690 his loneliness. So I started seeing a therapist. I explained 0:15:30.730 --> 0:15:34.850 how worry was the lingua franca of my childhood. I 0:15:34.970 --> 0:15:37.370 wasn't allowed a paper route because it was a good 0:15:37.410 --> 0:15:41.330 way to get abducted, no barefoot in because of rusty nails. 0:15:41.810 --> 0:15:44.410 And I didn't even learn to swim until junior high 0:15:44.850 --> 0:15:49.250 because water that's where people go to drown. Worry and 0:15:49.370 --> 0:15:52.530 fear were how my mother communicated love. I said to 0:15:52.570 --> 0:15:55.890 my therapist with a shrug. But love is love. The 0:15:55.970 --> 0:15:59.610 important thing is that we feel it. But my therapist's 0:15:59.650 --> 0:16:03.690 response troubled me. She said that love was the transcendence 0:16:03.690 --> 0:16:06.770 of fear, that you might even say fear was the 0:16:06.810 --> 0:16:11.410 opposite of love. Sitting at my childhood desk with Aggie's 0:16:11.450 --> 0:16:15.490 toys scattered at my feet, my therapist's words returned to me. 0:16:16.810 --> 0:16:20.050 If I was becoming my mother, would AGGI someday become me? 0:16:20.610 --> 0:16:24.410 Someone weighed down by fear and worry? Was our genetic line, 0:16:24.490 --> 0:16:28.290 nothing more than an inglorious chain of Russian dolls. Should 0:16:28.330 --> 0:16:30.970 my therapist save the notes from our sessions so I 0:16:31.010 --> 0:16:34.610 can send Aggie to her at a discounted rate. I 0:16:34.650 --> 0:16:37.370 didn't want my son becoming me, and there were only 0:16:37.450 --> 0:16:40.530 two people who could help me understand how I became me, 0:16:41.290 --> 0:16:44.330 One who charged New York therapy rates that might leave 0:16:44.370 --> 0:16:49.010 me bankrupted before I'm cured, and the other my mother 0:16:52.370 --> 0:16:57.090 day three. As a child, I fell trapped and embarrassed 0:16:57.090 --> 0:16:59.850 by my mother. As an adult, I came to be 0:16:59.890 --> 0:17:03.530 amused by her. It's only as a freshly minted father 0:17:03.690 --> 0:17:06.609 visiting home for the first time that I'm beginning to 0:17:06.649 --> 0:17:10.090 see that I am her. How much you pay for 0:17:10.410 --> 0:17:12.489 apples seventy? 0:17:13.330 --> 0:17:16.330 But if I'm desperate, this is what we normally talk about. 0:17:16.770 --> 0:17:19.290 Where to get the best price on paper plates, Where 0:17:19.330 --> 0:17:21.209 to get the best price on honeydew melon? 0:17:21.770 --> 0:17:22.050 Dina? 0:17:22.090 --> 0:17:24.450 What do you pay for a bottle of water. 0:17:25.290 --> 0:17:30.850 Twenty four for a dollar eighty eight? Bottle water cox 0:17:30.929 --> 0:17:32.690 twenty four for six nine? 0:17:33.209 --> 0:17:35.929 Will you pay for a loaf of bread? But after dinner, 0:17:36.169 --> 0:17:39.010 after Aggie's gone to sleep, my mom and I sit 0:17:39.090 --> 0:17:41.809 down at the kitchen table to have a different conversation. 0:17:42.850 --> 0:17:45.689 Emily is reading in bed, and my father's watching TV 0:17:45.810 --> 0:17:46.490 in the basement. 0:17:47.330 --> 0:17:48.889 It's just us. 0:17:50.169 --> 0:17:54.490 Hello, Hello, go ahead and talk here I am Why 0:17:54.490 --> 0:17:55.090 do you say here? 0:17:55.129 --> 0:17:56.369 I am? Well? 0:17:56.530 --> 0:17:57.570 Where should I say? 0:17:57.609 --> 0:17:57.810 There? 0:17:57.850 --> 0:18:01.770 I am tonight. I want to talk about the fear, 0:18:02.330 --> 0:18:05.529 that thing my family lives inside, like a snowsuit with 0:18:05.570 --> 0:18:08.530 a broken zipper that can no more be removed than 0:18:08.570 --> 0:18:11.810 our own flos. I want to talk about the nameless 0:18:11.850 --> 0:18:15.930 thing that binds all Goldstein's, that ignites us, propels us, 0:18:16.530 --> 0:18:20.409 and ultimately paralyzes us. Well, I think about this stuff 0:18:20.449 --> 0:18:22.850 now because you know I have I have a I 0:18:22.889 --> 0:18:28.170 have a son, and I I think, but I think. 0:18:28.570 --> 0:18:31.050 He's so beautiful, and I saw those blue eyes like 0:18:32.010 --> 0:18:34.530 no hors bays eggs. 0:18:34.570 --> 0:18:37.889 My mother's not talking crazy talk, she's talking Yiddish. 0:18:38.050 --> 0:18:38.850 So Bay's eggs. 0:18:40.010 --> 0:18:40.930 Yeah, what does that mean? 0:18:41.449 --> 0:18:43.850 The bad oy shouldn't hurt them? 0:18:44.929 --> 0:18:48.729 The bad eye, the evil eye, the belief that merely 0:18:48.810 --> 0:18:52.729 saying something positive is enough to invite evil forces to 0:18:52.770 --> 0:18:55.889 snuff the good thing out. So even bringing up a 0:18:55.929 --> 0:18:59.369 normal son to mom question about good parenting is enough 0:18:59.369 --> 0:19:02.889 to attract the eye. On the day of my bar Mitzvah, 0:19:02.929 --> 0:19:06.330 my mother carefully sewed a red ribbon into my underwear. 0:19:06.970 --> 0:19:09.490 In this way, she reasoned, should the e the lie 0:19:09.490 --> 0:19:14.129 turn its gaze upon me. I'd be protected by my underwear. 0:19:14.770 --> 0:19:15.689 Why do you. 0:19:15.649 --> 0:19:23.409 Think you do that evil eyed stuff? It's what you say, 0:19:23.409 --> 0:19:24.129 it's cuckoo. 0:19:24.490 --> 0:19:26.290 I know it's cuckoo, but I can't help it. 0:19:26.689 --> 0:19:28.369 But then that's a superstition. 0:19:29.010 --> 0:19:30.249 I don't know everybody does it. 0:19:31.530 --> 0:19:33.890 I've never met anybody who puts red ribbons in their 0:19:33.889 --> 0:19:36.650 own I'm saying I personally have never met anyone who 0:19:36.689 --> 0:19:39.729 does that. So I can't say everybody puts red ribbons 0:19:39.770 --> 0:19:42.689 in their underwear. But what what is it supposed to be? 0:19:42.730 --> 0:19:47.489 Warding off? But what is the evil eye? 0:19:48.090 --> 0:19:48.609 I don't know. 0:19:50.889 --> 0:19:54.410 This is how conversations with Dina often go. The derail 0:19:55.010 --> 0:19:58.289 hit dead ends. So when I ask her why was 0:19:58.290 --> 0:20:01.609 our home the way it was? I expect more of 0:20:01.649 --> 0:20:08.530 the same, But instead my mother grows quiet. 0:20:13.050 --> 0:20:16.649 I worry, Yeah, I do too. 0:20:16.889 --> 0:20:18.250 I'm afraid of. 0:20:18.209 --> 0:20:19.330 This, afraid of that. 0:20:20.250 --> 0:20:20.369 Well. 0:20:20.409 --> 0:20:23.369 I was irrational. I wasn't thinking right, and I have 0:20:23.409 --> 0:20:25.649 a chance to redo my a little bit. 0:20:25.730 --> 0:20:27.170 Not with you, but with Augie. 0:20:29.369 --> 0:20:33.330 She stops talking and stares into her lap for a while. 0:20:34.090 --> 0:20:34.929 We just sit there. 0:20:38.050 --> 0:20:42.210 I look upon this as a second chance. I want 0:20:42.250 --> 0:20:46.090 to correct my mistakes. Johnny, I want to redeem myself. 0:20:47.050 --> 0:20:47.530 That's it. 0:20:49.730 --> 0:20:53.129 My mother doesn't usually talk this way. If something's causing 0:20:53.129 --> 0:20:56.289 her grief, she returns it to the store, sends it 0:20:56.330 --> 0:21:00.330 back to the kitchen, and so talk of second chances 0:21:00.369 --> 0:21:03.969 and redemption. The words sound weird coming out of her mouth, 0:21:04.169 --> 0:21:07.169 and I don't know how to respond. Where's all this 0:21:07.290 --> 0:21:07.889 coming from? 0:21:07.929 --> 0:21:08.369 I ask? 0:21:09.169 --> 0:21:10.889 Are you thinking of something specific? 0:21:11.649 --> 0:21:14.290 It's too painful. I don't want. 0:21:16.010 --> 0:21:21.009 Maybe if you talk about it, you won't talk. I 0:21:21.010 --> 0:21:21.970 don't think it could be anything. 0:21:22.010 --> 0:21:22.769 Then I can't. 0:21:22.810 --> 0:21:25.289 I can't talk about it. Don't don't press me. 0:21:25.530 --> 0:21:28.170 Please, well, I don't want to force you. I don't 0:21:28.169 --> 0:21:29.010 want to make you feel bad. 0:21:29.010 --> 0:21:30.409 I am ashamed of myself. 0:21:31.889 --> 0:21:34.090 Let's change the subject. 0:21:35.010 --> 0:21:39.369 And with that the conversation ends. I'd gotten to my 0:21:39.409 --> 0:21:43.010 mother for answers about my childhood, but instead she's left 0:21:43.050 --> 0:21:46.249 me with questions I didn't even know I had. What 0:21:46.369 --> 0:21:48.930 had happened that was so bad? She couldn't even talk 0:21:48.970 --> 0:21:51.769 about it? What was she so afraid to tell me? 0:21:53.330 --> 0:22:06.530 After the break, I find out, Hello, Hello, So mom's 0:22:06.570 --> 0:22:07.529 upstairs with Emily. 0:22:08.530 --> 0:22:10.250 Do you have In day. 0:22:10.010 --> 0:22:13.449 Four, I sit down with my father to see if 0:22:13.449 --> 0:22:16.090 he has any idea what the second chance is that 0:22:16.169 --> 0:22:19.929 my mother's talking about. He's hesitant to talk because that 0:22:20.050 --> 0:22:22.810 goes against the strategy of staying out of the drama. 0:22:23.449 --> 0:22:26.529 In fact, most of my childhood memories of him are 0:22:26.570 --> 0:22:29.730 of a man in bed, napping with a large volume 0:22:29.770 --> 0:22:32.609 of World War II history splayed open on his chest. 0:22:33.209 --> 0:22:36.529 This retiring nature might be the secret to having stayed 0:22:36.530 --> 0:22:40.609 married to my mother for more than fifty years. What 0:22:40.730 --> 0:22:42.690 is the thing that she is carrying around with her? 0:22:42.730 --> 0:22:47.409 She's a very private person and she feels she doesn't 0:22:47.409 --> 0:22:50.210 want to be intruded upon. Don't take it the wrong way. 0:22:50.409 --> 0:22:53.170