1 00:00:15,210 --> 00:00:22,050 Speaker 1: Pushkin Khalila Holt, Welcome to the studio. 2 00:00:22,410 --> 00:00:22,810 Speaker 2: Thanks. 3 00:00:22,930 --> 00:00:28,090 Speaker 1: Today's Encore presentation is an episode called Dina. Spoiler alert. 4 00:00:28,290 --> 00:00:29,130 Speaker 1: You know who Dina is? 5 00:00:29,450 --> 00:00:29,970 Speaker 2: Your mom? 6 00:00:30,170 --> 00:00:30,850 Speaker 3: She's my mother. 7 00:00:31,250 --> 00:00:32,050 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right. 8 00:00:32,170 --> 00:00:35,090 Speaker 1: Even I have a mother, Khila Holt. You know when 9 00:00:35,090 --> 00:00:36,769 Speaker 1: you like call me like, what is it? You call 10 00:00:36,810 --> 00:00:41,210 Speaker 1: me a motherless cuss sometimes when you get upset. No, 11 00:00:41,370 --> 00:00:44,090 Speaker 1: this episode is about my mother. What do you remember 12 00:00:44,090 --> 00:00:44,850 Speaker 1: about the production? 13 00:00:45,170 --> 00:00:47,489 Speaker 2: I remember it, and I hope I'm not speaking out 14 00:00:47,530 --> 00:00:50,129 Speaker 2: of turn, no please, but I remember it being like 15 00:00:50,129 --> 00:00:52,010 Speaker 2: an emotional one for you to work on, like there 16 00:00:52,090 --> 00:00:53,489 Speaker 2: was a lot you had to delve into. 17 00:00:54,209 --> 00:00:57,850 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true. My wife Emily was like, you know, 18 00:00:57,930 --> 00:01:01,009 Speaker 1: you're doing all these episodes about other people and intimate 19 00:01:01,050 --> 00:01:03,530 Speaker 1: moments from their lives. You have to have a little 20 00:01:03,569 --> 00:01:07,810 Speaker 1: skin in the game. And yeah, it was kind of scary, 21 00:01:07,890 --> 00:01:11,410 Speaker 1: but I came out the other end stronger and jollier 22 00:01:12,050 --> 00:01:13,170 Speaker 1: and balder than ever. 23 00:01:14,730 --> 00:01:17,450 Speaker 2: And if our listeners come out the other end of 24 00:01:17,490 --> 00:01:20,450 Speaker 2: this episode, they'll get to hear an update from Dina 25 00:01:20,530 --> 00:01:22,210 Speaker 2: herself on her birthday. 26 00:01:22,650 --> 00:01:25,289 Speaker 1: That's right. Yeah, I talked to my mother to catch 27 00:01:25,370 --> 00:01:29,930 Speaker 1: up with her on her various projects. So let's get 28 00:01:30,010 --> 00:01:33,890 Speaker 1: ready to listen voraciously. I'm ready, but before we do, 29 00:01:34,170 --> 00:01:35,810 Speaker 1: let's hear a word from our sponsors. 30 00:01:36,010 --> 00:01:45,890 Speaker 2: Thanks sponsors, Yello. 31 00:01:46,410 --> 00:01:50,890 Speaker 4: Why hello? Now, what kind of greeting is that you've 32 00:01:50,890 --> 00:01:53,610 Speaker 4: got your radio voice on? Could you elaborate on what 33 00:01:53,650 --> 00:01:54,130 Speaker 4: you mean by that? 34 00:01:54,250 --> 00:01:56,810 Speaker 5: I know in the first second if I'm being recorded, 35 00:01:56,890 --> 00:01:59,410 Speaker 5: or I could on your inflections? 36 00:01:59,490 --> 00:02:03,290 Speaker 1: Well, I always talk like this, Jackie. Back to you. 37 00:02:03,450 --> 00:02:05,050 Speaker 1: The way you're speaking with me now is never the 38 00:02:05,050 --> 00:02:07,650 Speaker 1: way you would normally speak. Okay, wait, hang on a second, 39 00:02:07,650 --> 00:02:11,970 Speaker 1: I'm just talking normal. You're not talking normal your radio voice. 40 00:02:12,049 --> 00:02:13,930 Speaker 4: Hey, what's going on? It's still not. 41 00:02:14,010 --> 00:02:15,570 Speaker 3: It's still not. It's still not. 42 00:02:16,210 --> 00:02:16,450 Speaker 4: Hey. 43 00:02:16,930 --> 00:02:20,170 Speaker 1: No, hey Jackie again Jackie, No, you wouldn't say him 44 00:02:20,210 --> 00:02:20,370 Speaker 1: like that. 45 00:02:20,570 --> 00:02:21,130 Speaker 4: How's it going? 46 00:02:21,210 --> 00:02:21,930 Speaker 1: Too much energy? 47 00:02:22,290 --> 00:02:22,450 Speaker 5: Hi? 48 00:02:22,930 --> 00:02:24,290 Speaker 3: I can tell anyway. 49 00:02:24,370 --> 00:02:26,930 Speaker 1: It can't be a radio voice because I do a podcast. 50 00:02:27,170 --> 00:02:31,210 Speaker 1: It's a podcast voice, all right, And welcome to the 51 00:02:31,250 --> 00:02:41,130 Speaker 1: show from Gimblet Media. I'm Jonathan Goldstein and this is 52 00:02:41,210 --> 00:03:00,970 Speaker 1: Heavyweight Today's episode. Dina. Hello, Hello, Okay, uh so we 53 00:03:01,050 --> 00:03:01,970 Speaker 1: just got to Montreal. 54 00:03:02,890 --> 00:03:04,250 Speaker 4: We wee? What's that? 55 00:03:05,010 --> 00:03:05,250 Speaker 6: Is that? 56 00:03:05,290 --> 00:03:06,609 Speaker 2: How you say yes in French? 57 00:03:06,970 --> 00:03:08,769 Speaker 4: Yeah? But you just say it once you to say, 58 00:03:08,810 --> 00:03:10,090 Speaker 4: we wit. 59 00:03:11,930 --> 00:03:14,370 Speaker 1: Folks are about to meet us, pick us up at 60 00:03:14,410 --> 00:03:17,370 Speaker 1: the airport to take us back to their place, where 61 00:03:17,490 --> 00:03:23,050 Speaker 1: we will be staying for the next five days, five days, 62 00:03:23,690 --> 00:03:26,770 Speaker 1: five days in my childhood home, in the childhood bed 63 00:03:26,850 --> 00:03:30,010 Speaker 1: i've not slept in in decades. My wife Emily and 64 00:03:30,050 --> 00:03:33,370 Speaker 1: I are here for passover, to sup upon the bread 65 00:03:33,370 --> 00:03:37,370 Speaker 1: of affliction. Growing up, though, it was everything of affliction, 66 00:03:37,970 --> 00:03:42,850 Speaker 1: candy corn of affliction, road trips of affliction, bedtime stories 67 00:03:42,850 --> 00:03:51,570 Speaker 1: of affliction. I moved out when I was nineteen, but 68 00:03:51,650 --> 00:03:54,930 Speaker 1: from age one to eighteen, what I remember most is 69 00:03:54,930 --> 00:03:58,890 Speaker 1: the vague feeling of worry permeating the household. Worry that 70 00:03:59,050 --> 00:04:03,730 Speaker 1: manifested is yelling, yelling through closed doors, yelling across the 71 00:04:03,810 --> 00:04:07,850 Speaker 1: kitchen table, my father yelling into a junk drawer, desperately 72 00:04:07,890 --> 00:04:11,210 Speaker 1: trying to find a working pen. My mother yelling into 73 00:04:11,290 --> 00:04:14,530 Speaker 1: a clogged toilet, desperately trying to make it go down. 74 00:04:15,610 --> 00:04:18,849 Speaker 1: But more often than not, the yelling wasn't over anything 75 00:04:18,890 --> 00:04:22,409 Speaker 1: at all. We were just a naturally loud, anxious family, 76 00:04:23,010 --> 00:04:26,689 Speaker 1: a race of nervous giants shrunk into the bodies of 77 00:04:26,770 --> 00:04:33,409 Speaker 1: little Jews. 78 00:04:37,250 --> 00:04:37,570 Speaker 7: Man. 79 00:04:37,770 --> 00:04:40,409 Speaker 1: When I move out of here, I'd say in my teens, 80 00:04:40,810 --> 00:04:45,409 Speaker 1: I'm going to live like sting peace and quiet, meditation, 81 00:04:45,890 --> 00:04:50,969 Speaker 1: tea and tantric sex. And now, after years of oolong 82 00:04:51,130 --> 00:04:55,249 Speaker 1: roubis and lemon roubis, I'm home again for my first 83 00:04:55,250 --> 00:04:59,610 Speaker 1: trip back with Emily and our five month old son Agi. 84 00:05:02,890 --> 00:05:03,450 Speaker 4: Day one. 85 00:05:04,409 --> 00:05:08,010 Speaker 1: Here they are my parents. Tyota pulls up to the 86 00:05:08,049 --> 00:05:11,930 Speaker 1: airport pickup. They pass us and passes us. 87 00:05:12,010 --> 00:05:15,370 Speaker 4: Try to catch the eye. They don't see us here. 88 00:05:16,450 --> 00:05:17,729 Speaker 4: We're right here. 89 00:05:18,690 --> 00:05:24,049 Speaker 1: My mother jumps out. She runs back towards us, pointing 90 00:05:24,049 --> 00:05:25,010 Speaker 1: at Oggie's ears. 91 00:05:25,169 --> 00:05:26,490 Speaker 3: His ears are exposed. 92 00:05:26,729 --> 00:05:30,890 Speaker 5: Hi, Hi, emily ears are exposed. 93 00:05:32,409 --> 00:05:35,249 Speaker 1: Both my mother and father where their woolen caps pull 94 00:05:35,369 --> 00:05:39,409 Speaker 1: down well past their ears. In younger, stronger days, they 95 00:05:39,489 --> 00:05:42,169 Speaker 1: might have stretched those caps right down over their feet, 96 00:05:42,690 --> 00:05:46,369 Speaker 1: but they're old now. My mother Dina seventy two, and 97 00:05:46,450 --> 00:05:48,409 Speaker 1: my father Buzz eighty three. 98 00:05:49,250 --> 00:05:51,089 Speaker 3: I want to drive slowly, not too fast. 99 00:05:51,169 --> 00:05:52,770 Speaker 8: I want to go carefully. 100 00:05:52,450 --> 00:05:59,529 Speaker 1: Okay while Buzz is high strung. Dina's intensity is capable 101 00:05:59,529 --> 00:06:03,249 Speaker 1: of raising the emotional temperature of any space she occupies 102 00:06:03,929 --> 00:06:08,210 Speaker 1: in elevators, walk in pantries, and tiotas. Her powers are 103 00:06:08,289 --> 00:06:10,729 Speaker 1: especially cute, like. 104 00:06:10,729 --> 00:06:15,770 Speaker 5: A funny feeling in my throat, like it's like really emotional. 105 00:06:16,849 --> 00:06:20,010 Speaker 7: It's like a dreamed you know, it's like a dream. 106 00:06:20,529 --> 00:06:23,170 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like such a weird feeling. 107 00:06:23,849 --> 00:06:26,929 Speaker 1: I think the weird, elusive feeling my mother is trying 108 00:06:26,969 --> 00:06:29,010 Speaker 1: to describe is happiness. 109 00:06:29,969 --> 00:06:31,969 Speaker 3: It's just wonderful to see him. 110 00:06:32,210 --> 00:06:33,810 Speaker 7: But I hope he's going to be warm enough. Did 111 00:06:33,849 --> 00:06:36,049 Speaker 7: you bring him up something? 112 00:06:43,130 --> 00:06:43,290 Speaker 3: Home? 113 00:06:43,369 --> 00:06:46,210 Speaker 8: Sweet home? 114 00:06:47,049 --> 00:06:49,569 Speaker 1: Walking through the door, I'm a twelve year old again, 115 00:06:49,969 --> 00:06:52,890 Speaker 1: home from school and looking forward to zoning out with 116 00:06:52,969 --> 00:06:56,890 Speaker 1: petticoat junction. I'm a sixteen year old rushing to the 117 00:06:56,929 --> 00:07:00,489 Speaker 1: bathroom to gargle out the smell of cigarettes. I'm a 118 00:07:00,529 --> 00:07:03,409 Speaker 1: forty eight year old, a grown ass man with a 119 00:07:03,409 --> 00:07:07,130 Speaker 1: grown ass ass. Parenting a newborn leaves a person with 120 00:07:07,210 --> 00:07:10,810 Speaker 1: no time for squats. So don't judge Alex. 121 00:07:11,929 --> 00:07:12,850 Speaker 4: So nice in here. 122 00:07:14,410 --> 00:07:16,250 Speaker 6: I don't believe it. 123 00:07:17,010 --> 00:07:20,850 Speaker 1: Normally, the house, a modest, semi detached bungalow, has a 124 00:07:20,890 --> 00:07:25,850 Speaker 1: certain storage unit, bombshelter, vibe, walls of toilet paper, a 125 00:07:25,929 --> 00:07:29,530 Speaker 1: cold room full of canned fruit, cocktail needle points of 126 00:07:29,570 --> 00:07:33,410 Speaker 1: biblical scenes, and torreadors all leaned up against the walls 127 00:07:33,570 --> 00:07:36,810 Speaker 1: for fear of pounding in a nail and regretting it forever. 128 00:07:37,810 --> 00:07:40,770 Speaker 1: But today the place looks positively sparse. 129 00:07:41,929 --> 00:07:45,009 Speaker 5: Johnny, Just don't open a closet or in shore everything. 130 00:07:45,010 --> 00:07:46,370 Speaker 5: I'll tumble on your head. 131 00:07:46,330 --> 00:07:48,610 Speaker 3: Because when you've heard you guys are coming. 132 00:07:48,690 --> 00:07:51,809 Speaker 5: I threw everything into the into the closets and hid them. 133 00:07:52,290 --> 00:07:55,530 Speaker 1: My mother grabs Aggie and heads upstairs for a diaper change. 134 00:07:55,810 --> 00:07:57,170 Speaker 1: Emily and I trail behind. 135 00:07:58,210 --> 00:08:00,569 Speaker 3: I want him to be fresh and clean. Oh you're 136 00:08:00,650 --> 00:08:05,970 Speaker 3: so sweet, You're so sweet, my angel. Where the fridge 137 00:08:05,970 --> 00:08:06,570 Speaker 3: is the bag? 138 00:08:07,170 --> 00:08:10,770 Speaker 1: The friggin bag contains the friggin's that my mother bought 139 00:08:10,770 --> 00:08:14,170 Speaker 1: for our visit. It turns out it's on her lap. 140 00:08:15,290 --> 00:08:17,129 Speaker 5: I kept the bill because I wasn't sure if you 141 00:08:17,170 --> 00:08:18,410 Speaker 5: want me to return them or not. 142 00:08:20,050 --> 00:08:22,170 Speaker 1: Would you be able to return used diapers? 143 00:08:22,610 --> 00:08:25,890 Speaker 5: Yeah, you know me. I could return anything. I could 144 00:08:25,929 --> 00:08:26,850 Speaker 5: return anything. 145 00:08:28,010 --> 00:08:32,610 Speaker 1: You know that, Johnny, I do know that returning stuff 146 00:08:32,650 --> 00:08:35,250 Speaker 1: is what my mother lives for. She sees it as 147 00:08:35,290 --> 00:08:38,970 Speaker 1: a staring contest, a game of chess, but with yelling. 148 00:08:39,929 --> 00:08:42,570 Speaker 1: I remember once going along with her as she returned 149 00:08:42,610 --> 00:08:46,170 Speaker 1: a shirt she'd bought for my father two years earlier. 150 00:08:49,330 --> 00:08:53,490 Speaker 1: It's missing a sleeve, she told the cashier, holding up 151 00:08:53,530 --> 00:08:57,090 Speaker 1: the article of clothing. The cashier turned it around and around. 152 00:08:57,890 --> 00:09:01,250 Speaker 1: It's not supposed to have sleeves. The cashier finally said, 153 00:09:01,890 --> 00:09:06,690 Speaker 1: it's a poncho. A poncho, my mother repeated, as though 154 00:09:06,690 --> 00:09:10,170 Speaker 1: it were a foreign word, which in her I suppose 155 00:09:10,210 --> 00:09:13,090 Speaker 1: it sort of is. I don't care what it is. 156 00:09:13,570 --> 00:09:22,490 Speaker 1: It's factory defective and my husband can't wear it. Whenever 157 00:09:22,530 --> 00:09:25,370 Speaker 1: she'd get this way, I'd adopt the stance meant to 158 00:09:25,410 --> 00:09:29,250 Speaker 1: convey filial loyalty, peppered with a touch of what Vietnam 159 00:09:29,370 --> 00:09:33,650 Speaker 1: vets call the thousand yards stare. I've stood next to 160 00:09:33,690 --> 00:09:38,770 Speaker 1: my mother through countless exchanges, arguments, spectacles and stinks. But 161 00:09:38,850 --> 00:09:41,010 Speaker 1: this is the first time I've stood by her side 162 00:09:41,530 --> 00:09:42,730 Speaker 1: as she diapers my son. 163 00:09:43,690 --> 00:09:45,330 Speaker 5: Oh look how much peep he has. 164 00:09:46,130 --> 00:09:48,570 Speaker 3: Oh, you made a lot of ppa baby. 165 00:09:50,570 --> 00:09:52,410 Speaker 5: See that's how I knew you were sick. When you 166 00:09:52,410 --> 00:09:54,210 Speaker 5: were a baby, Johnny, you weren't peeping. 167 00:09:55,610 --> 00:09:56,410 Speaker 4: What was wrong with me? 168 00:09:57,050 --> 00:09:59,490 Speaker 1: As a kid, it was easy to be embarrassed by 169 00:09:59,490 --> 00:10:03,330 Speaker 1: my mother. One time, a popular boy named Jordie showed 170 00:10:03,370 --> 00:10:06,330 Speaker 1: up at our house. I wasn't home, but my mother 171 00:10:06,410 --> 00:10:11,290 Speaker 1: answered the door with her hair on fire. My hair's 172 00:10:11,370 --> 00:10:15,890 Speaker 1: on fire, she screamed. The next day in school, Geordie 173 00:10:15,890 --> 00:10:18,970 Speaker 1: showed the whole class how she screamed it. He wiggled 174 00:10:18,970 --> 00:10:21,370 Speaker 1: his fingers in the air, looking as though he was 175 00:10:21,410 --> 00:10:25,130 Speaker 1: about to fall to his knees. That night, I asked 176 00:10:25,130 --> 00:10:29,210 Speaker 1: my mother what had happened. It was the barbecue, she said, 177 00:10:29,650 --> 00:10:31,810 Speaker 1: your father wasn't home, and I was so in the 178 00:10:31,850 --> 00:10:36,090 Speaker 1: mood for barbecued lamb chops. It seems that while examining 179 00:10:36,130 --> 00:10:39,330 Speaker 1: the chops for signs of spoilage, she leaned her hair 180 00:10:39,370 --> 00:10:43,490 Speaker 1: sprayed boufont too close to the grill. While this explained 181 00:10:43,530 --> 00:10:46,410 Speaker 1: the fire atop her head, it did not explain why 182 00:10:46,450 --> 00:10:49,530 Speaker 1: she answered the door while nursing a fire atop her head. 183 00:10:51,330 --> 00:10:53,970 Speaker 1: Growing up, this kind of stuff happened all the time, 184 00:10:54,490 --> 00:10:57,890 Speaker 1: so I was always on high alert for humiliating emergencies. 185 00:10:58,530 --> 00:11:01,290 Speaker 1: Being back home again, I feel the old muscle memory 186 00:11:01,370 --> 00:11:03,290 Speaker 1: kicked back in. What's that smells? 187 00:11:03,730 --> 00:11:04,530 Speaker 5: Something's burning? 188 00:11:05,530 --> 00:11:06,450 Speaker 4: Did you turn on the heater? 189 00:11:06,650 --> 00:11:07,690 Speaker 1: Did you touch the heat? 190 00:11:07,770 --> 00:11:08,050 Speaker 7: Though? 191 00:11:08,930 --> 00:11:11,410 Speaker 1: It turns out that one of the rag dolls my 192 00:11:11,490 --> 00:11:14,170 Speaker 1: mother had been hoarding somehow landed onto one of the 193 00:11:14,210 --> 00:11:17,170 Speaker 1: old lamps she'd been hoarding, and had begun to burn, 194 00:11:19,130 --> 00:11:19,610 Speaker 1: I could. 195 00:11:19,450 --> 00:11:22,290 Speaker 5: Have had a fire because I was so careless for 196 00:11:22,490 --> 00:11:23,810 Speaker 5: a hush shim rush. 197 00:11:24,050 --> 00:11:27,370 Speaker 1: The day plays out as a series of minor disasters averted. 198 00:11:28,170 --> 00:11:31,210 Speaker 1: In the morning, my mother loses her cell phone. We 199 00:11:31,330 --> 00:11:34,450 Speaker 1: find it in the night table. In the afternoon, a 200 00:11:34,490 --> 00:11:37,690 Speaker 1: screw to my father's glasses falls out. We replace it 201 00:11:37,730 --> 00:11:41,090 Speaker 1: with a twist tie. At dinner, a waiter charges my 202 00:11:41,130 --> 00:11:44,210 Speaker 1: mother for a potato. She claims she didn't order, but 203 00:11:44,290 --> 00:11:48,690 Speaker 1: after ten minutes of Camp David's style negotiations, it's dropped 204 00:11:48,690 --> 00:11:53,290 Speaker 1: from the bill. Before bed, my father can't find his passport. 205 00:11:53,850 --> 00:11:56,890 Speaker 1: Why do you need a passport? I ask, You always 206 00:11:56,930 --> 00:12:00,090 Speaker 1: need a passport, he says. We find it in the 207 00:12:00,170 --> 00:12:04,370 Speaker 1: night table. In the past, having someone witness all of 208 00:12:04,410 --> 00:12:08,330 Speaker 1: this would have made me feel anxious, But now having 209 00:12:08,330 --> 00:12:10,770 Speaker 1: Emily here makes me feel like I have an ally. 210 00:12:11,650 --> 00:12:14,090 Speaker 1: Turning to her in the midst of some crisis is 211 00:12:14,130 --> 00:12:17,890 Speaker 1: like looking directly into the TV camera and winking. 212 00:12:17,490 --> 00:12:25,210 Speaker 4: At the audience. N Doggy. 213 00:12:26,490 --> 00:12:32,730 Speaker 1: Day two good. After we put Aggie to sleep, Emily 214 00:12:32,770 --> 00:12:35,610 Speaker 1: and I lie in bed. I ask for her thoughts 215 00:12:35,690 --> 00:12:37,450 Speaker 1: and reflections on the trip so far. 216 00:12:41,130 --> 00:12:41,890 Speaker 9: No comment. 217 00:12:42,090 --> 00:12:47,410 Speaker 1: Oh, come on, come on, no comment. How could she resist? 218 00:12:48,210 --> 00:12:50,410 Speaker 1: Look at how my mother acts with Aggie, I say, 219 00:12:50,570 --> 00:12:53,170 Speaker 1: trying to get Emily going. I saw her put a 220 00:12:53,210 --> 00:12:55,810 Speaker 1: pocket mirror under his nose while he was sleeping, to 221 00:12:55,810 --> 00:12:59,170 Speaker 1: see if he was still breathing. After every spoonful she 222 00:12:59,210 --> 00:13:01,450 Speaker 1: feeds him, she asks if he's choking. 223 00:13:02,330 --> 00:13:05,490 Speaker 9: You realize, though, that you say all that about Aggie 224 00:13:05,530 --> 00:13:08,570 Speaker 9: now too, like just a tiny little cough, and you 225 00:13:08,650 --> 00:13:09,930 Speaker 9: are doing it. 226 00:13:09,970 --> 00:13:10,650 Speaker 3: Is he breathing? 227 00:13:11,050 --> 00:13:13,410 Speaker 9: Can he sit like that? Can he touch that thing? 228 00:13:13,810 --> 00:13:15,730 Speaker 9: Can he eat that? Can he do that? Is he 229 00:13:15,770 --> 00:13:16,850 Speaker 9: supposed to be doing that? 230 00:13:17,130 --> 00:13:19,570 Speaker 3: What's wrong? What's wrong? What's wrong? What's he doing? What's 231 00:13:19,570 --> 00:13:20,610 Speaker 3: he doing? Is he choking? 232 00:13:20,650 --> 00:13:21,130 Speaker 4: What's wrong? 233 00:13:22,250 --> 00:13:23,570 Speaker 9: You do a lot of that kind of thing. 234 00:13:25,050 --> 00:13:27,930 Speaker 1: I concede to Emily that maybe I do just a 235 00:13:28,010 --> 00:13:30,650 Speaker 1: little of that kind of thing. But I wasn't even 236 00:13:30,650 --> 00:13:33,530 Speaker 1: in the parking lot of the ballpark of Adina Goldstein. 237 00:13:38,210 --> 00:13:43,450 Speaker 9: One day you dropped, You dropped Aggie off, and you 238 00:13:43,530 --> 00:13:47,330 Speaker 9: called me right afterward because you were so worried. 239 00:13:47,410 --> 00:13:51,930 Speaker 1: You remember this, I do remember this. It was Aggie's 240 00:13:51,970 --> 00:13:55,170 Speaker 1: first week of daycare. He shares a babysitter with two 241 00:13:55,210 --> 00:13:58,850 Speaker 1: little sisters. But on that particular morning, when the babysitter 242 00:13:58,930 --> 00:14:02,450 Speaker 1: opened the door, she was alone. She told me the 243 00:14:02,490 --> 00:14:04,650 Speaker 1: girls were napping in another room. 244 00:14:05,330 --> 00:14:08,450 Speaker 9: You called me and said she was there alone. 245 00:14:08,570 --> 00:14:09,810 Speaker 4: She said, were in bed. 246 00:14:10,250 --> 00:14:12,690 Speaker 9: I don't know. Maybe she killed the whole family and 247 00:14:12,890 --> 00:14:16,370 Speaker 9: now she's going to kill OGGI and you weren't joking, 248 00:14:17,050 --> 00:14:20,450 Speaker 9: like you knew it was a crazy thought, but you 249 00:14:20,650 --> 00:14:24,330 Speaker 9: needed me to tell you she didn't kill her family. 250 00:14:24,410 --> 00:14:25,730 Speaker 9: She's not gonna kill Aggie. 251 00:14:26,370 --> 00:14:28,730 Speaker 1: I did not need you to tell me that. 252 00:14:29,250 --> 00:14:32,170 Speaker 9: And you're misremembering you were freaked out. 253 00:14:33,210 --> 00:14:34,290 Speaker 3: You were freaked out. 254 00:14:34,530 --> 00:14:35,650 Speaker 1: I thought it was very stoic. 255 00:14:36,890 --> 00:14:39,050 Speaker 9: You called me and said, I think the nanny is 256 00:14:39,090 --> 00:14:42,370 Speaker 9: gonna murder our child, and that she murdered the whole family. 257 00:14:42,050 --> 00:14:43,450 Speaker 1: That we do daycare with. 258 00:14:44,050 --> 00:14:47,330 Speaker 4: I don't consider that stoic, all right. 259 00:14:47,410 --> 00:14:48,730 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm just imaginative. 260 00:14:50,610 --> 00:14:51,850 Speaker 2: That's one way to look at it. 261 00:14:53,090 --> 00:14:55,370 Speaker 1: Yet another way to look at it is that I'm 262 00:14:55,410 --> 00:15:00,210 Speaker 1: also crazy, just like my mom. Well, set my hair 263 00:15:00,250 --> 00:15:08,930 Speaker 1: on fire and open the front door. In the days 264 00:15:09,130 --> 00:15:13,290 Speaker 1: after Aggie was born, I couldn't stop thinking terrible thoughts things. 265 00:15:13,330 --> 00:15:16,970 Speaker 1: I couldn't speak, not even to Emily. With this new 266 00:15:17,010 --> 00:15:21,250 Speaker 1: overwhelming love for my son came new overwhelming fears for 267 00:15:21,330 --> 00:15:25,210 Speaker 1: his safety, his heartbreaks to come, for his old age, 268 00:15:25,770 --> 00:15:30,690 Speaker 1: his loneliness. So I started seeing a therapist. I explained 269 00:15:30,730 --> 00:15:34,850 Speaker 1: how worry was the lingua franca of my childhood. I 270 00:15:34,970 --> 00:15:37,370 Speaker 1: wasn't allowed a paper route because it was a good 271 00:15:37,410 --> 00:15:41,330 Speaker 1: way to get abducted, no barefoot in because of rusty nails. 272 00:15:41,810 --> 00:15:44,410 Speaker 1: And I didn't even learn to swim until junior high 273 00:15:44,850 --> 00:15:49,250 Speaker 1: because water that's where people go to drown. Worry and 274 00:15:49,370 --> 00:15:52,530 Speaker 1: fear were how my mother communicated love. I said to 275 00:15:52,570 --> 00:15:55,890 Speaker 1: my therapist with a shrug. But love is love. The 276 00:15:55,970 --> 00:15:59,610 Speaker 1: important thing is that we feel it. But my therapist's 277 00:15:59,650 --> 00:16:03,690 Speaker 1: response troubled me. She said that love was the transcendence 278 00:16:03,690 --> 00:16:06,770 Speaker 1: of fear, that you might even say fear was the 279 00:16:06,810 --> 00:16:11,410 Speaker 1: opposite of love. Sitting at my childhood desk with Aggie's 280 00:16:11,450 --> 00:16:15,490 Speaker 1: toys scattered at my feet, my therapist's words returned to me. 281 00:16:16,810 --> 00:16:20,050 Speaker 1: If I was becoming my mother, would AGGI someday become me? 282 00:16:20,610 --> 00:16:24,410 Speaker 1: Someone weighed down by fear and worry? Was our genetic line, 283 00:16:24,490 --> 00:16:28,290 Speaker 1: nothing more than an inglorious chain of Russian dolls. Should 284 00:16:28,330 --> 00:16:30,970 Speaker 1: my therapist save the notes from our sessions so I 285 00:16:31,010 --> 00:16:34,610 Speaker 1: can send Aggie to her at a discounted rate. I 286 00:16:34,650 --> 00:16:37,370 Speaker 1: didn't want my son becoming me, and there were only 287 00:16:37,450 --> 00:16:40,530 Speaker 1: two people who could help me understand how I became me, 288 00:16:41,290 --> 00:16:44,330 Speaker 1: One who charged New York therapy rates that might leave 289 00:16:44,370 --> 00:16:49,010 Speaker 1: me bankrupted before I'm cured, and the other my mother 290 00:16:52,370 --> 00:16:57,090 Speaker 1: day three. As a child, I fell trapped and embarrassed 291 00:16:57,090 --> 00:16:59,850 Speaker 1: by my mother. As an adult, I came to be 292 00:16:59,890 --> 00:17:03,530 Speaker 1: amused by her. It's only as a freshly minted father 293 00:17:03,690 --> 00:17:06,609 Speaker 1: visiting home for the first time that I'm beginning to 294 00:17:06,649 --> 00:17:10,090 Speaker 1: see that I am her. How much you pay for 295 00:17:10,410 --> 00:17:12,489 Speaker 1: apples seventy? 296 00:17:13,330 --> 00:17:16,330 Speaker 4: But if I'm desperate, this is what we normally talk about. 297 00:17:16,770 --> 00:17:19,290 Speaker 1: Where to get the best price on paper plates, Where 298 00:17:19,330 --> 00:17:21,209 Speaker 1: to get the best price on honeydew melon? 299 00:17:21,770 --> 00:17:22,050 Speaker 7: Dina? 300 00:17:22,090 --> 00:17:24,450 Speaker 8: What do you pay for a bottle of water. 301 00:17:25,290 --> 00:17:30,850 Speaker 3: Twenty four for a dollar eighty eight? Bottle water cox 302 00:17:30,929 --> 00:17:32,690 Speaker 3: twenty four for six nine? 303 00:17:33,209 --> 00:17:35,929 Speaker 1: Will you pay for a loaf of bread? But after dinner, 304 00:17:36,169 --> 00:17:39,010 Speaker 1: after Aggie's gone to sleep, my mom and I sit 305 00:17:39,090 --> 00:17:41,809 Speaker 1: down at the kitchen table to have a different conversation. 306 00:17:42,850 --> 00:17:45,689 Speaker 1: Emily is reading in bed, and my father's watching TV 307 00:17:45,810 --> 00:17:46,490 Speaker 1: in the basement. 308 00:17:47,330 --> 00:17:48,889 Speaker 4: It's just us. 309 00:17:50,169 --> 00:17:54,490 Speaker 1: Hello, Hello, go ahead and talk here I am Why 310 00:17:54,490 --> 00:17:55,090 Speaker 1: do you say here? 311 00:17:55,129 --> 00:17:56,369 Speaker 7: I am? Well? 312 00:17:56,530 --> 00:17:57,570 Speaker 3: Where should I say? 313 00:17:57,609 --> 00:17:57,810 Speaker 4: There? 314 00:17:57,850 --> 00:18:01,770 Speaker 1: I am tonight. I want to talk about the fear, 315 00:18:02,330 --> 00:18:05,529 Speaker 1: that thing my family lives inside, like a snowsuit with 316 00:18:05,570 --> 00:18:08,530 Speaker 1: a broken zipper that can no more be removed than 317 00:18:08,570 --> 00:18:11,810 Speaker 1: our own flos. I want to talk about the nameless 318 00:18:11,850 --> 00:18:15,930 Speaker 1: thing that binds all Goldstein's, that ignites us, propels us, 319 00:18:16,530 --> 00:18:20,409 Speaker 1: and ultimately paralyzes us. Well, I think about this stuff 320 00:18:20,449 --> 00:18:22,850 Speaker 1: now because you know I have I have a I 321 00:18:22,889 --> 00:18:28,170 Speaker 1: have a son, and I I think, but I think. 322 00:18:28,570 --> 00:18:31,050 Speaker 5: He's so beautiful, and I saw those blue eyes like 323 00:18:32,010 --> 00:18:34,530 Speaker 5: no hors bays eggs. 324 00:18:34,570 --> 00:18:37,889 Speaker 1: My mother's not talking crazy talk, she's talking Yiddish. 325 00:18:38,050 --> 00:18:38,850 Speaker 3: So Bay's eggs. 326 00:18:40,010 --> 00:18:40,930 Speaker 1: Yeah, what does that mean? 327 00:18:41,449 --> 00:18:43,850 Speaker 3: The bad oy shouldn't hurt them? 328 00:18:44,929 --> 00:18:48,729 Speaker 1: The bad eye, the evil eye, the belief that merely 329 00:18:48,810 --> 00:18:52,729 Speaker 1: saying something positive is enough to invite evil forces to 330 00:18:52,770 --> 00:18:55,889 Speaker 1: snuff the good thing out. So even bringing up a 331 00:18:55,929 --> 00:18:59,369 Speaker 1: normal son to mom question about good parenting is enough 332 00:18:59,369 --> 00:19:02,889 Speaker 1: to attract the eye. On the day of my bar Mitzvah, 333 00:19:02,929 --> 00:19:06,330 Speaker 1: my mother carefully sewed a red ribbon into my underwear. 334 00:19:06,970 --> 00:19:09,490 Speaker 1: In this way, she reasoned, should the e the lie 335 00:19:09,490 --> 00:19:14,129 Speaker 1: turn its gaze upon me. I'd be protected by my underwear. 336 00:19:14,770 --> 00:19:15,689 Speaker 4: Why do you. 337 00:19:15,649 --> 00:19:23,409 Speaker 1: Think you do that evil eyed stuff? It's what you say, 338 00:19:23,409 --> 00:19:24,129 Speaker 1: it's cuckoo. 339 00:19:24,490 --> 00:19:26,290 Speaker 3: I know it's cuckoo, but I can't help it. 340 00:19:26,689 --> 00:19:28,369 Speaker 1: But then that's a superstition. 341 00:19:29,010 --> 00:19:30,249 Speaker 3: I don't know everybody does it. 342 00:19:31,530 --> 00:19:33,890 Speaker 1: I've never met anybody who puts red ribbons in their 343 00:19:33,889 --> 00:19:36,650 Speaker 1: own I'm saying I personally have never met anyone who 344 00:19:36,689 --> 00:19:39,729 Speaker 1: does that. So I can't say everybody puts red ribbons 345 00:19:39,770 --> 00:19:42,689 Speaker 1: in their underwear. But what what is it supposed to be? 346 00:19:42,730 --> 00:19:47,489 Speaker 1: Warding off? But what is the evil eye? 347 00:19:48,090 --> 00:19:48,609 Speaker 3: I don't know. 348 00:19:50,889 --> 00:19:54,410 Speaker 1: This is how conversations with Dina often go. The derail 349 00:19:55,010 --> 00:19:58,289 Speaker 1: hit dead ends. So when I ask her why was 350 00:19:58,290 --> 00:20:01,609 Speaker 1: our home the way it was? I expect more of 351 00:20:01,649 --> 00:20:08,530 Speaker 1: the same, But instead my mother grows quiet. 352 00:20:13,050 --> 00:20:16,649 Speaker 4: I worry, Yeah, I do too. 353 00:20:16,889 --> 00:20:18,250 Speaker 1: I'm afraid of. 354 00:20:18,209 --> 00:20:19,330 Speaker 3: This, afraid of that. 355 00:20:20,250 --> 00:20:20,369 Speaker 7: Well. 356 00:20:20,409 --> 00:20:23,369 Speaker 5: I was irrational. I wasn't thinking right, and I have 357 00:20:23,409 --> 00:20:25,649 Speaker 5: a chance to redo my a little bit. 358 00:20:25,730 --> 00:20:27,170 Speaker 3: Not with you, but with Augie. 359 00:20:29,369 --> 00:20:33,330 Speaker 1: She stops talking and stares into her lap for a while. 360 00:20:34,090 --> 00:20:34,929 Speaker 1: We just sit there. 361 00:20:38,050 --> 00:20:42,210 Speaker 5: I look upon this as a second chance. I want 362 00:20:42,250 --> 00:20:46,090 Speaker 5: to correct my mistakes. Johnny, I want to redeem myself. 363 00:20:47,050 --> 00:20:47,530 Speaker 3: That's it. 364 00:20:49,730 --> 00:20:53,129 Speaker 1: My mother doesn't usually talk this way. If something's causing 365 00:20:53,129 --> 00:20:56,289 Speaker 1: her grief, she returns it to the store, sends it 366 00:20:56,330 --> 00:21:00,330 Speaker 1: back to the kitchen, and so talk of second chances 367 00:21:00,369 --> 00:21:03,969 Speaker 1: and redemption. The words sound weird coming out of her mouth, 368 00:21:04,169 --> 00:21:07,169 Speaker 1: and I don't know how to respond. Where's all this 369 00:21:07,290 --> 00:21:07,889 Speaker 1: coming from? 370 00:21:07,929 --> 00:21:08,369 Speaker 4: I ask? 371 00:21:09,169 --> 00:21:10,889 Speaker 1: Are you thinking of something specific? 372 00:21:11,649 --> 00:21:14,290 Speaker 3: It's too painful. I don't want. 373 00:21:16,010 --> 00:21:21,009 Speaker 1: Maybe if you talk about it, you won't talk. I 374 00:21:21,010 --> 00:21:21,970 Speaker 1: don't think it could be anything. 375 00:21:22,010 --> 00:21:22,769 Speaker 4: Then I can't. 376 00:21:22,810 --> 00:21:25,289 Speaker 3: I can't talk about it. Don't don't press me. 377 00:21:25,530 --> 00:21:28,170 Speaker 1: Please, well, I don't want to force you. I don't 378 00:21:28,169 --> 00:21:29,010 Speaker 1: want to make you feel bad. 379 00:21:29,010 --> 00:21:30,409 Speaker 4: I am ashamed of myself. 380 00:21:31,889 --> 00:21:34,090 Speaker 3: Let's change the subject. 381 00:21:35,010 --> 00:21:39,369 Speaker 1: And with that the conversation ends. I'd gotten to my 382 00:21:39,409 --> 00:21:43,010 Speaker 1: mother for answers about my childhood, but instead she's left 383 00:21:43,050 --> 00:21:46,249 Speaker 1: me with questions I didn't even know I had. What 384 00:21:46,369 --> 00:21:48,930 Speaker 1: had happened that was so bad? She couldn't even talk 385 00:21:48,970 --> 00:21:51,769 Speaker 1: about it? What was she so afraid to tell me? 386 00:21:53,330 --> 00:22:06,530 Speaker 1: After the break, I find out, Hello, Hello, So mom's 387 00:22:06,570 --> 00:22:07,529 Speaker 1: upstairs with Emily. 388 00:22:08,530 --> 00:22:10,250 Speaker 4: Do you have In day. 389 00:22:10,010 --> 00:22:13,449 Speaker 1: Four, I sit down with my father to see if 390 00:22:13,449 --> 00:22:16,090 Speaker 1: he has any idea what the second chance is that 391 00:22:16,169 --> 00:22:19,929 Speaker 1: my mother's talking about. He's hesitant to talk because that 392 00:22:20,050 --> 00:22:22,810 Speaker 1: goes against the strategy of staying out of the drama. 393 00:22:23,449 --> 00:22:26,529 Speaker 1: In fact, most of my childhood memories of him are 394 00:22:26,570 --> 00:22:29,730 Speaker 1: of a man in bed, napping with a large volume 395 00:22:29,770 --> 00:22:32,609 Speaker 1: of World War II history splayed open on his chest. 396 00:22:33,209 --> 00:22:36,529 Speaker 1: This retiring nature might be the secret to having stayed 397 00:22:36,530 --> 00:22:40,609 Speaker 1: married to my mother for more than fifty years. What 398 00:22:40,730 --> 00:22:42,690 Speaker 1: is the thing that she is carrying around with her? 399 00:22:42,730 --> 00:22:47,409 Speaker 8: She's a very private person and she feels she doesn't 400 00:22:47,409 --> 00:22:50,210 Speaker 8: want to be intruded upon. Don't take it the wrong way. 401 00:22:50,409 --> 00:22:53,170 Speaker 4: So you have no inkling. You don't know what's going on. 402 00:22:53,449 --> 00:22:55,529 Speaker 8: It isn't even discussing with me. I don't know what guilt. 403 00:22:55,609 --> 00:22:56,409 Speaker 3: I don't know what she's talking. 404 00:22:56,449 --> 00:22:58,970 Speaker 1: Don't find it odd or intriguing in a way. 405 00:22:59,050 --> 00:23:04,169 Speaker 8: It's a touchy subject for her, and she's very reluctant 406 00:23:04,169 --> 00:23:05,250 Speaker 8: to talk about it. 407 00:23:05,570 --> 00:23:06,689 Speaker 4: Talk about it. What's the it? 408 00:23:07,250 --> 00:23:08,650 Speaker 8: I don't know. You have to ask her, and she's 409 00:23:08,649 --> 00:23:11,970 Speaker 8: going to shut down. She's gonna shut down. 410 00:23:13,609 --> 00:23:16,850 Speaker 1: This means she'll try to change the subject or start 411 00:23:16,889 --> 00:23:20,330 Speaker 1: to yell. But today I don't care. I just want 412 00:23:20,330 --> 00:23:23,850 Speaker 1: to know what the big secret is. I wonder what 413 00:23:23,929 --> 00:23:27,090 Speaker 1: it is, I say to Emily, who knows? She says 414 00:23:27,209 --> 00:23:30,169 Speaker 1: while brushing her hair. So many things about your mom 415 00:23:30,250 --> 00:23:32,729 Speaker 1: are a mystery to me, like why is the kitchen 416 00:23:32,770 --> 00:23:35,810 Speaker 1: faucet always running full blast? And why does she keep 417 00:23:35,850 --> 00:23:40,010 Speaker 1: offering me paper towels? I think she says, you should 418 00:23:40,090 --> 00:23:47,169 Speaker 1: just let it go, but of course I can't. What 419 00:23:47,330 --> 00:23:50,010 Speaker 1: had my mother done that she wanted a second chance at? 420 00:23:50,530 --> 00:23:52,409 Speaker 1: Was it for the time she bought me a shirt 421 00:23:52,449 --> 00:23:56,369 Speaker 1: for my birthday that she later admitted was actually a dress? 422 00:23:56,850 --> 00:23:58,969 Speaker 1: Did you want to redo the time she dropped me 423 00:23:59,010 --> 00:24:02,130 Speaker 1: off at a birthday party and hollered out the car window. 424 00:24:02,689 --> 00:24:03,330 Speaker 4: Have fun? 425 00:24:03,649 --> 00:24:06,609 Speaker 1: But if you get diarrhea and someone's on the toilet 426 00:24:07,129 --> 00:24:10,490 Speaker 1: just making the bathtub die, arhea is not a time 427 00:24:10,609 --> 00:24:14,409 Speaker 1: for pride. Of course, I now see the wisdom, but 428 00:24:14,530 --> 00:24:17,369 Speaker 1: as a child, her words were a source of shame. 429 00:24:18,730 --> 00:24:19,409 Speaker 4: I need to know. 430 00:24:19,889 --> 00:24:22,209 Speaker 1: So I invite my mother out for a Sunday stroll 431 00:24:22,250 --> 00:24:25,369 Speaker 1: with Aggie and me. Maybe if she can just relax, 432 00:24:25,850 --> 00:24:31,730 Speaker 1: it'll come out like diarrhea talk. 433 00:24:32,409 --> 00:24:33,210 Speaker 3: What should I say? 434 00:24:33,889 --> 00:24:36,409 Speaker 1: Let I just take your level, So tell me. 435 00:24:38,409 --> 00:24:39,850 Speaker 4: So, do you find walking with Hogy. 436 00:24:39,929 --> 00:24:42,649 Speaker 3: Relaxing, very relaxing, so nice. 437 00:24:43,330 --> 00:24:46,729 Speaker 5: It's a pleasure to walk with my little friend. 438 00:24:47,530 --> 00:24:51,449 Speaker 1: To start things off, I lobber an easy question, cocktail 439 00:24:51,490 --> 00:24:55,769 Speaker 1: party stuff. What's your first memory? 440 00:24:58,689 --> 00:25:03,490 Speaker 5: Kindergarten? And we lived on Colonial four h three nine Colonial, 441 00:25:04,169 --> 00:25:08,090 Speaker 5: And I remember my father used to play peanockle and 442 00:25:08,209 --> 00:25:11,529 Speaker 5: he had a thumb that was the nail like the 443 00:25:11,609 --> 00:25:15,570 Speaker 5: thumbnail was very cut off, and all of a sudden 444 00:25:15,609 --> 00:25:18,210 Speaker 5: I thought of it and I started screaming and crying 445 00:25:18,250 --> 00:25:24,010 Speaker 5: and carrying on. I'm worrying. Oh, I remember how old 446 00:25:24,050 --> 00:25:26,330 Speaker 5: are you must have been four or five. 447 00:25:26,409 --> 00:25:29,009 Speaker 1: So so an early memory as being at kindergarten and 448 00:25:29,050 --> 00:25:32,369 Speaker 1: remembering your father's thumbnail and starting to cry. 449 00:25:33,050 --> 00:25:36,090 Speaker 4: What was it that upset you about it? 450 00:25:36,090 --> 00:25:38,969 Speaker 5: Shorried about it because it wasn't like a regular thumb. 451 00:25:40,850 --> 00:25:43,090 Speaker 3: I was worried crazy. 452 00:25:43,770 --> 00:25:46,969 Speaker 1: I tried to guide her towards happy reminiscences, but all 453 00:25:46,970 --> 00:25:51,770 Speaker 1: her memories are awful. Rheumatic fever, scarlet fever, her mother 454 00:25:51,889 --> 00:25:55,250 Speaker 1: slapping her in Woolworth's for whining about a balloon she wanted, 455 00:25:55,649 --> 00:25:57,689 Speaker 1: waking up in the middle of the night to find 456 00:25:57,689 --> 00:25:59,850 Speaker 1: a wall in the kitchen covered in moths. 457 00:26:00,490 --> 00:26:03,330 Speaker 5: Then I remember my mother's pressure cooker in that house 458 00:26:03,649 --> 00:26:07,729 Speaker 5: hits the ceiling and pea soup was flattered everywhere. 459 00:26:11,889 --> 00:26:17,649 Speaker 1: All your memories, Let's hear another memory. With the small 460 00:26:17,689 --> 00:26:21,729 Speaker 1: talk exhausted, I trepidaciously bring the subject back around to 461 00:26:21,810 --> 00:26:22,409 Speaker 1: the do over. 462 00:26:23,409 --> 00:26:24,930 Speaker 3: I don't know, Johnny. 463 00:26:25,290 --> 00:26:26,690 Speaker 5: I don't want to talk about it. I don't want 464 00:26:26,689 --> 00:26:31,850 Speaker 5: to remind myself the way I f felt. Doesn't conjure 465 00:26:31,929 --> 00:26:35,090 Speaker 5: up good memories. Please, and that's the end of it. 466 00:26:35,169 --> 00:26:35,770 Speaker 3: I don't want to. 467 00:26:35,689 --> 00:26:36,809 Speaker 5: Go into details. 468 00:26:39,730 --> 00:26:42,969 Speaker 1: Nonetheless, for the rest of the day, I can't stop 469 00:26:42,970 --> 00:26:46,530 Speaker 1: myself from asking for details. Here we go, I ask, 470 00:26:46,649 --> 00:26:48,369 Speaker 1: as she puts away the breakfast dishes. 471 00:26:48,730 --> 00:26:52,370 Speaker 5: I I have nothing more to say, Johnny. 472 00:26:52,409 --> 00:26:54,969 Speaker 1: Leave me be, wait, I ask, as she cuts coupons 473 00:26:55,010 --> 00:26:58,810 Speaker 1: while watching Judge Judy with Emily in broad strokes. 474 00:26:58,730 --> 00:27:01,930 Speaker 5: Alone, Please Emily take them off me. 475 00:27:02,530 --> 00:27:05,850 Speaker 1: And while she peels boiled eggs for lunch, Leave me alone. 476 00:27:07,250 --> 00:27:10,289 Speaker 1: Later we all sit down for dinner and with it 477 00:27:10,369 --> 00:27:10,929 Speaker 1: some wine. 478 00:27:11,409 --> 00:27:14,290 Speaker 3: What's wrong with me? I think I'm off my rock. 479 00:27:15,209 --> 00:27:16,970 Speaker 1: My mother rarely drinks wine. 480 00:27:17,689 --> 00:27:19,930 Speaker 3: Oh my god, how did I get like this? 481 00:27:21,449 --> 00:27:21,770 Speaker 7: A mom? 482 00:27:21,889 --> 00:27:26,890 Speaker 1: You just had a glass of wine as she drifts 483 00:27:26,929 --> 00:27:30,810 Speaker 1: off into an inebriated slumber. I give it one last try, 484 00:27:32,689 --> 00:27:35,929 Speaker 1: can I Is there anything you need to tell me? No, 485 00:27:36,169 --> 00:27:47,570 Speaker 1: any secrets to reveal? No, I was getting nowhere. Day five? 486 00:27:48,730 --> 00:27:56,050 Speaker 1: All right, you want to change him? What any It's 487 00:27:56,090 --> 00:27:58,570 Speaker 1: our last day and I've decided to give it a rest. 488 00:27:59,250 --> 00:28:02,770 Speaker 1: I stop asking weird questions and we all just hang out. 489 00:28:02,929 --> 00:28:05,130 Speaker 1: We talk about the price of things, We yell from 490 00:28:05,169 --> 00:28:08,050 Speaker 1: room to room, We search for lost cell phones, and 491 00:28:08,090 --> 00:28:12,570 Speaker 1: grow pleasantly bored word with each other's company. Overall, it's 492 00:28:12,609 --> 00:28:16,009 Speaker 1: pretty nice. Well, while putting Aggie down for a nap, 493 00:28:16,530 --> 00:28:18,130 Speaker 1: my mother has a question for me. 494 00:28:19,290 --> 00:28:21,649 Speaker 5: Sonny, what was it that you were hoping to get 495 00:28:21,770 --> 00:28:22,050 Speaker 5: from me? 496 00:28:23,530 --> 00:28:23,690 Speaker 8: Oh? 497 00:28:23,770 --> 00:28:26,490 Speaker 1: I really just want to be able to have a conversation, 498 00:28:26,730 --> 00:28:28,770 Speaker 1: that's all I'm not. I don't want to I don't 499 00:28:28,810 --> 00:28:30,010 Speaker 1: want to cause your distress. 500 00:28:30,369 --> 00:28:33,850 Speaker 3: They're not causing distress. It's it's what it was. 501 00:28:35,050 --> 00:28:37,209 Speaker 4: And I don't ever want to talk about old, painful 502 00:28:37,250 --> 00:28:37,689 Speaker 4: for stuff. 503 00:28:37,730 --> 00:28:48,690 Speaker 5: But what. 504 00:28:50,490 --> 00:28:54,330 Speaker 1: She lays Aggie down, she stands over the crib. She 505 00:28:54,450 --> 00:29:00,130 Speaker 1: starts to say something, but then trails away. What we're saying. 506 00:29:03,530 --> 00:29:08,530 Speaker 1: All right, I'm gonna turn it off. Then I was 507 00:29:08,610 --> 00:29:11,690 Speaker 1: not a doctor did I had no secret twin, and 508 00:29:11,810 --> 00:29:15,330 Speaker 1: my mother had no secret family. There were no murders, 509 00:29:15,530 --> 00:29:19,130 Speaker 1: no affairs. It turns out that my mother's big secret, 510 00:29:19,530 --> 00:29:21,210 Speaker 1: the thing that was so hard for her to say, 511 00:29:21,970 --> 00:29:24,650 Speaker 1: was that she was sorry for a lot of things, 512 00:29:25,330 --> 00:29:29,570 Speaker 1: some small, some not so small. Some I remember, some 513 00:29:30,050 --> 00:29:34,290 Speaker 1: I don't, calling me names, screaming at me a lot. 514 00:29:34,450 --> 00:29:37,090 Speaker 1: How she could have been nicer to my girlfriends, How 515 00:29:37,090 --> 00:29:41,050 Speaker 1: she used to pull my hair, hit me. Hitting kids 516 00:29:41,170 --> 00:29:43,969 Speaker 1: was like the hula hoop. Back then, I say, a fad. 517 00:29:44,570 --> 00:29:48,850 Speaker 1: Everyone did it. It wasn't right, she says. Back then 518 00:29:48,930 --> 00:29:52,410 Speaker 1: people didn't know better. I say, I should have known better. 519 00:29:52,450 --> 00:29:57,370 Speaker 1: She says, I forgive you. I say, I don't forgive myself. 520 00:29:58,450 --> 00:30:02,090 Speaker 1: So I forgive her again, and I mean it, And 521 00:30:02,130 --> 00:30:04,370 Speaker 1: then I turned the recorder back on. 522 00:30:09,770 --> 00:30:13,050 Speaker 3: I love you, honey. You made it a little easier 523 00:30:13,090 --> 00:30:14,009 Speaker 3: for me. Thank you. 524 00:30:15,810 --> 00:30:25,850 Speaker 1: I love you too, Mum. When you become a parent, 525 00:30:26,130 --> 00:30:29,770 Speaker 1: your whole life changes, but you forget that some things 526 00:30:29,770 --> 00:30:33,289 Speaker 1: stay the same. I had been so focused on becoming 527 00:30:33,290 --> 00:30:36,450 Speaker 1: a better father that I forgot I was still a son. 528 00:30:37,690 --> 00:30:40,410 Speaker 1: And maybe learning to be a better son is how 529 00:30:40,410 --> 00:30:45,249 Speaker 1: you become a better dad anyway, I want him to 530 00:30:45,290 --> 00:30:48,890 Speaker 1: be safe. On the last morning of our visit, my 531 00:30:48,970 --> 00:30:51,809 Speaker 1: mother and I head to the park. As a kid, 532 00:30:51,970 --> 00:30:54,530 Speaker 1: the park was someplace I usually went with my grandfather 533 00:30:54,890 --> 00:30:57,570 Speaker 1: or father. One of the only times I remember going 534 00:30:57,610 --> 00:31:00,570 Speaker 1: with my mother, two colleagues appeared out of nowhere and 535 00:31:00,610 --> 00:31:04,610 Speaker 1: began chasing us. I remember we separated and the dogs 536 00:31:04,690 --> 00:31:08,610 Speaker 1: chased her while I hid behind a tree. I look 537 00:31:08,610 --> 00:31:12,009 Speaker 1: around the playground from my own childhood with her. I 538 00:31:12,050 --> 00:31:15,370 Speaker 1: knew most things were out sandbox because someone could have 539 00:31:15,370 --> 00:31:19,210 Speaker 1: peed in there. Same for the swings, monkey bars, teeter totters, 540 00:31:19,250 --> 00:31:24,249 Speaker 1: and merry go rounds. But then something surprising happens. Picking 541 00:31:24,290 --> 00:31:26,850 Speaker 1: Aggie up out of the stroller, my mother. 542 00:31:26,690 --> 00:31:28,810 Speaker 5: Says, I'll take him down the slide. 543 00:31:28,970 --> 00:31:30,729 Speaker 1: He's never he's never gone down the side. 544 00:31:30,810 --> 00:31:33,370 Speaker 3: Come with Bobby, Honey, we'll go down the slide together. 545 00:31:33,450 --> 00:31:35,610 Speaker 4: Okay, you're gonna go with him down the slide. Well, 546 00:31:35,610 --> 00:31:38,770 Speaker 4: what do you think i'll put himself? I didn't. You're 547 00:31:38,810 --> 00:31:40,810 Speaker 4: not afraid to go down the slide. Why would I 548 00:31:40,850 --> 00:31:45,289 Speaker 4: be afraid? I don't know. Okay, be careful, Yeah, now 549 00:31:45,330 --> 00:31:50,570 Speaker 4: you've got my nervous I wasn't afraid be careful. I 550 00:31:50,570 --> 00:31:50,930 Speaker 4: don't know. 551 00:31:52,370 --> 00:31:56,170 Speaker 1: My mother hands me back Aggie and holding onto the railing, 552 00:31:56,650 --> 00:31:59,930 Speaker 1: she carefully climbs the steps to the top of the slide. 553 00:32:00,250 --> 00:32:03,090 Speaker 1: When she gets there, I climb up too and hand 554 00:32:03,130 --> 00:32:07,250 Speaker 1: Aggie back to her with hesitation. She positions him onto 555 00:32:07,250 --> 00:32:09,850 Speaker 1: her lap and I run around to the bottom of 556 00:32:09,850 --> 00:32:11,810 Speaker 1: the slide to await their arrival. 557 00:32:12,330 --> 00:32:15,130 Speaker 3: And you stand there and catch us in chase. 558 00:32:15,170 --> 00:32:19,769 Speaker 1: Part from me, and then Dina lets go, You're. 559 00:32:19,690 --> 00:32:20,410 Speaker 3: Gonna go down. 560 00:32:20,490 --> 00:32:28,410 Speaker 4: Whoo whoo. He's having fun. 561 00:32:28,530 --> 00:32:32,490 Speaker 1: Huh, so much fun in fact, that my mother decides 562 00:32:32,530 --> 00:32:36,410 Speaker 1: to do it again, And so again she climbs up 563 00:32:36,410 --> 00:32:39,810 Speaker 1: the steps, all three of them, to the top of 564 00:32:39,850 --> 00:32:42,769 Speaker 1: the ladder, and from the grand height of three and 565 00:32:42,770 --> 00:32:46,050 Speaker 1: a half feet, my mother and son descend the toddler 566 00:32:46,130 --> 00:32:47,250 Speaker 1: slide once more. 567 00:32:48,050 --> 00:32:52,090 Speaker 5: Slidey snidey down the slide. 568 00:32:57,130 --> 00:33:01,209 Speaker 1: Oggie loves it, so they do it again a third chance, 569 00:33:01,450 --> 00:33:05,249 Speaker 1: a fourth, and even a fifth. Then we move on 570 00:33:05,290 --> 00:33:11,010 Speaker 1: to the bouncy caterpillar, the rope bridge, and the swings. 571 00:33:09,770 --> 00:33:16,890 Speaker 3: Swam, sleepy doggies going sweeny. 572 00:33:16,610 --> 00:33:21,170 Speaker 5: The itsy bitsy spider quin up the water. 573 00:33:22,209 --> 00:33:25,930 Speaker 1: Parenthood is like a redo of your own childhood and 574 00:33:26,050 --> 00:33:29,850 Speaker 1: grandparenthood is like a redo of that. That's all life 575 00:33:29,890 --> 00:33:34,050 Speaker 1: is learning and relearning the same lessons over and over, 576 00:33:35,050 --> 00:33:38,209 Speaker 1: all of us, like those itsy bitsy spiders crawling up 577 00:33:38,330 --> 00:33:41,490 Speaker 1: endless water spouts, trying to make just a little more 578 00:33:41,530 --> 00:33:45,650 Speaker 1: progress each time we set out. There's comfort in knowing 579 00:33:45,690 --> 00:33:48,130 Speaker 1: that no one ever gets it right, no matter how 580 00:33:48,209 --> 00:33:52,370 Speaker 1: many chances we get. But hopefully at least a few 581 00:33:52,370 --> 00:33:56,370 Speaker 1: things go right, a few purely kind gestures somehow get through. 582 00:33:57,330 --> 00:34:01,489 Speaker 1: And for everything else we ask for forgiveness, and if 583 00:34:01,530 --> 00:34:06,330 Speaker 1: we're lucky, we'll receive it, and if we're luckier, we'll 584 00:34:06,330 --> 00:34:07,610 Speaker 1: forgive ourselves too. 585 00:34:09,090 --> 00:35:36,530 Speaker 7: I love the horrors and faces. 586 00:35:02,650 --> 00:35:07,370 Speaker 3: Now that the fern entures returned to its. 587 00:35:07,250 --> 00:35:08,650 Speaker 5: Good will hol. 588 00:35:11,890 --> 00:35:16,290 Speaker 3: Now that the last month's rant is scheming with the 589 00:35:16,490 --> 00:35:18,610 Speaker 3: damage to take. 590 00:35:18,490 --> 00:35:28,690 Speaker 4: This moment to des if we mention Chi felt around from. 591 00:35:40,850 --> 00:35:43,650 Speaker 1: It's been nearly a decade since I recorded that episode 592 00:35:43,650 --> 00:35:46,850 Speaker 1: with my mother. Recently I flew home to Montreal to 593 00:35:46,850 --> 00:35:52,210 Speaker 1: see her again, same airport, same toyota, same parents, nearly 594 00:35:52,290 --> 00:35:53,210 Speaker 1: leaving me on the current. 595 00:35:53,410 --> 00:35:55,650 Speaker 4: Oh I didn't, I've already gone in. 596 00:35:57,050 --> 00:35:59,330 Speaker 1: I've come to visit this weekend because it's my mother's 597 00:35:59,370 --> 00:36:02,450 Speaker 1: eightieth birthday. She's planned a big dinner as well as 598 00:36:02,450 --> 00:36:04,890 Speaker 1: a visit to the Senior Center, where I'm told there 599 00:36:04,930 --> 00:36:06,330 Speaker 1: will be music and dancing. 600 00:36:06,610 --> 00:36:07,210 Speaker 4: You don't want to. 601 00:36:07,210 --> 00:36:08,410 Speaker 3: Come with me to the club? 602 00:36:09,170 --> 00:36:09,850 Speaker 4: Do you want me to? 603 00:36:10,610 --> 00:36:13,610 Speaker 1: Only if you feel like I can come for a 604 00:36:13,650 --> 00:36:14,770 Speaker 1: little bit, if. 605 00:36:14,650 --> 00:36:17,090 Speaker 3: You're gonna have to say, for like an hour and 606 00:36:17,170 --> 00:36:18,370 Speaker 3: a half, two hours? 607 00:36:18,970 --> 00:36:21,530 Speaker 1: So why can't I just drop in and say, Hi, Hey, 608 00:36:22,010 --> 00:36:23,009 Speaker 1: how much do you have to pay? 609 00:36:23,410 --> 00:36:23,570 Speaker 5: Well? 610 00:36:24,930 --> 00:36:27,610 Speaker 3: I can pay that, I know, but for five seconds 611 00:36:27,610 --> 00:36:28,730 Speaker 3: it doesn't pay. 612 00:36:29,530 --> 00:36:32,890 Speaker 6: One day they had the salsa. 613 00:36:35,090 --> 00:36:37,290 Speaker 4: I got up to dance. Then, Oh you like that? 614 00:36:37,410 --> 00:36:39,930 Speaker 4: I loved it, and they all loved. 615 00:36:40,010 --> 00:36:42,570 Speaker 3: Nobody was Dan, just your mom and me because they 616 00:36:42,970 --> 00:36:45,570 Speaker 3: know I'm always begging him to come dance, and I 617 00:36:45,650 --> 00:36:46,730 Speaker 3: couldn't stop dancing. 618 00:36:52,010 --> 00:37:02,810 Speaker 6: Hi, guys from Minnesota, Hello, because he's no. 619 00:37:03,690 --> 00:37:06,970 Speaker 3: Because some people watch on zoom, they don't come, okay 620 00:37:07,050 --> 00:37:09,450 Speaker 3: because they don't want to pay the five Do. 621 00:37:09,450 --> 00:37:11,930 Speaker 4: You think that's why you're hitting? Maybe they don't have trouble, No. 622 00:37:12,250 --> 00:37:12,690 Speaker 6: Don't want to. 623 00:37:13,170 --> 00:37:15,170 Speaker 1: Maybe they can't afford it. They can't afford it. 624 00:37:15,210 --> 00:37:21,970 Speaker 4: There rich say they too long to stay. Just shut 625 00:37:22,010 --> 00:37:24,410 Speaker 4: up and kiss me. Let's clap our hands. 626 00:37:25,010 --> 00:37:30,530 Speaker 6: Whoa yeah, there we go. And how about some feet 627 00:37:30,610 --> 00:37:32,969 Speaker 6: in the tap of feet all the time. 628 00:37:33,730 --> 00:37:35,850 Speaker 8: Oh my gosh, you're almost dancing. 629 00:37:35,970 --> 00:37:36,570 Speaker 4: Watch out. 630 00:37:37,770 --> 00:37:44,130 Speaker 9: Whoa nice by. 631 00:37:43,850 --> 00:37:53,650 Speaker 3: Wishes to our March celebrants, Dean and Goldstein, March sixth today. 632 00:37:54,850 --> 00:37:56,050 Speaker 7: Thank you, thank you. 633 00:38:00,370 --> 00:38:11,570 Speaker 4: Do you have happy birthday? 634 00:38:11,770 --> 00:38:14,010 Speaker 3: Thank you, Johnny, Thank you, sweetheart. You made a. 635 00:38:14,090 --> 00:38:17,450 Speaker 1: Special So I wanted to talk with you about the 636 00:38:17,530 --> 00:38:21,850 Speaker 1: Dina episode. You were seventy two in that. 637 00:38:22,010 --> 00:38:26,130 Speaker 3: In that woman. I was a young girl at seventy two. 638 00:38:27,290 --> 00:38:30,890 Speaker 1: What is different now that you're eighty? That's different than 639 00:38:30,890 --> 00:38:31,970 Speaker 1: when you were in your seventies. 640 00:38:32,610 --> 00:38:39,090 Speaker 3: I changed, I don't know. I'm trying to change even. 641 00:38:38,890 --> 00:38:41,250 Speaker 1: More in what way? 642 00:38:42,930 --> 00:38:47,090 Speaker 3: Well, I'm trying not to get so crazy over things. 643 00:38:48,770 --> 00:38:50,690 Speaker 1: So when you listen to yourself as a young girl 644 00:38:50,730 --> 00:38:55,170 Speaker 1: of seventy two, worried about Aggie, that he's going to 645 00:38:55,210 --> 00:38:57,690 Speaker 1: get cool, that he's not wearing a hat, how does 646 00:38:57,730 --> 00:38:58,490 Speaker 1: that make you feel? 647 00:38:58,930 --> 00:38:59,090 Speaker 7: Well? 648 00:38:59,130 --> 00:39:02,090 Speaker 3: I still worry, like when the children go naked, like 649 00:39:02,450 --> 00:39:05,410 Speaker 3: I call it naked, they don't button up their coats. 650 00:39:05,730 --> 00:39:08,370 Speaker 1: What are the things that you can think of that 651 00:39:08,370 --> 00:39:09,050 Speaker 1: that have changed? 652 00:39:10,090 --> 00:39:12,130 Speaker 3: Well? I got sick. That changed a lot. 653 00:39:13,650 --> 00:39:15,010 Speaker 1: This is when you had your heart attack. 654 00:39:17,050 --> 00:39:20,170 Speaker 3: I mean, I still get anxious sometimes. 655 00:39:20,650 --> 00:39:22,490 Speaker 1: What do you do to try to cope with the 656 00:39:22,570 --> 00:39:24,010 Speaker 1: anxious anxiousness? 657 00:39:24,650 --> 00:39:25,770 Speaker 3: I don't think so much. 658 00:39:27,130 --> 00:39:30,770 Speaker 1: What else changed though when you because I remember, you know, 659 00:39:30,850 --> 00:39:35,410 Speaker 1: before you went into the surgery, the heart surgery, you 660 00:39:35,490 --> 00:39:38,690 Speaker 1: had sort of made your peace. Yeah, you don't remember 661 00:39:38,690 --> 00:39:39,050 Speaker 1: any of that. 662 00:39:39,290 --> 00:39:42,970 Speaker 3: Oh, I wouldn't know. I was that brave. I didn't 663 00:39:43,010 --> 00:39:47,010 Speaker 3: realize that. The doctor told me that he told you 664 00:39:47,090 --> 00:39:51,370 Speaker 3: I wasn't going to make it. He told me when 665 00:39:51,850 --> 00:39:54,810 Speaker 3: they sent me into the basement of the Sante Hospitals 666 00:39:54,850 --> 00:39:59,009 Speaker 3: for tests, and the technician and the doctor there told 667 00:39:59,050 --> 00:40:01,850 Speaker 3: me was that I wasn't going to make it. And 668 00:40:01,970 --> 00:40:04,330 Speaker 3: I remember crying and I was all by myself in 669 00:40:04,370 --> 00:40:07,770 Speaker 3: that horrible dark basement, and then I said stop it. 670 00:40:08,210 --> 00:40:11,610 Speaker 3: I talked to my and I said stop it already, 671 00:40:11,650 --> 00:40:16,130 Speaker 3: It's enough. And I was okay. After that, you know, 672 00:40:16,170 --> 00:40:18,130 Speaker 3: I stopped crying and I went up and I did 673 00:40:18,170 --> 00:40:18,969 Speaker 3: what I had to do. 674 00:40:20,450 --> 00:40:23,090 Speaker 1: Going through something the way that you did with having 675 00:40:23,610 --> 00:40:26,410 Speaker 1: the heart attack the heart surgery, did it make you 676 00:40:26,490 --> 00:40:27,530 Speaker 1: more philosophical? 677 00:40:28,810 --> 00:40:29,170 Speaker 7: I don't know. 678 00:40:29,210 --> 00:40:32,850 Speaker 3: I'm still not a terrific person. I'm still not a saint, 679 00:40:32,890 --> 00:40:35,090 Speaker 3: even though i'd like to be. I still gossip and 680 00:40:35,170 --> 00:40:39,130 Speaker 3: I still say bad things about people, and I still yell, 681 00:40:39,930 --> 00:40:46,370 Speaker 3: and I still get mean. So I can't say I'm better. 682 00:40:46,490 --> 00:40:49,050 Speaker 3: I want to be better, but I'm not not as 683 00:40:49,090 --> 00:40:52,450 Speaker 3: good as I should be. I'm far from an angel. 684 00:40:54,330 --> 00:40:56,530 Speaker 1: Do you ever think that maybe you're a little harsh 685 00:40:56,570 --> 00:40:57,170 Speaker 1: with yourself? 686 00:40:57,290 --> 00:40:57,330 Speaker 8: No? 687 00:40:59,250 --> 00:41:01,930 Speaker 1: So, how's your idioth birthday today? How's it feelingly? 688 00:41:02,010 --> 00:41:09,050 Speaker 3: Because you're here, that doesn't I don't feel like i'm old. 689 00:41:09,170 --> 00:41:13,210 Speaker 3: You feel in my heart some days I feel i'm sixteen. 690 00:41:14,490 --> 00:41:15,570 Speaker 1: Thank you for talking to me. 691 00:41:16,410 --> 00:41:17,090 Speaker 3: You're welcome. 692 00:41:17,770 --> 00:41:18,330 Speaker 4: I love you. 693 00:41:18,490 --> 00:41:27,170 Speaker 3: I love you more, Johnny, You're my precious boy. 694 00:41:34,370 --> 00:41:37,529 Speaker 1: Thanks to everyone who helped put the episode together. This 695 00:41:37,730 --> 00:41:41,330 Speaker 1: is the last of our summer encores, but I fear not. 696 00:41:41,690 --> 00:41:44,810 Speaker 1: Denigoldtem's Precious Boy will be back with a new season 697 00:41:44,810 --> 00:42:11,770 Speaker 1: of Heavyweight on September eighteenth.