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Speaker 1: Our next guest is no stranger to the automotive world

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Speaker 1: or the media. Cody Smith of Kloy's Gear is a

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Speaker 1: technical product director and also does a great deal of

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Speaker 1: the videos for social media, and he's a presenter at

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Speaker 1: various industry events around the country. You know, I've been

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Speaker 1: watching Cody from AFAR for a while now, and I've

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Speaker 1: been a longtime user of Kloy's as well. It's good

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Speaker 1: stuff and he's a great talent for the industry and

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Speaker 1: we're happy to have him here with us. Cody Smith,

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Car Doctor.

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Speaker 2: Sir, Hey, thank you on it's great to be here.

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Speaker 1: You know timing chains, Uh, engines have timing chains, right,

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Speaker 1: they have to have a they have to have some

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Speaker 1: form of a timing component. If you were going to,

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Speaker 1: you know, give us a little timing chain one oh one,

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Speaker 1: explain it to the listeners. What is a timing chain?

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Speaker 1: What does it do? Well?

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Speaker 2: The time and chain is pretty simply the you know,

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Speaker 2: the component that's going to connect your crank shaft up

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Speaker 2: to your cam shafts and keeps keeps the engine timing correct.

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Speaker 2: You know, automotive timing systems that have gone through many

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Speaker 2: transitions over the years. You know, commonly and antique vehicles

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Speaker 2: you're gonna you're gonna find, you know, gear to gear

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Speaker 2: type timing sets. You know, that transitioned into the common

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Speaker 2: three piece timing sets that everybody kind of traditionally knows

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Speaker 2: in your small block chevrolets, you know, direct from the

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Speaker 2: crank up to the cam and a push rob D

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Speaker 2: eight and then you know, uh, you know, the modern

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Speaker 2: era seeing the timing belt be introduced. You know, and

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Speaker 2: that kind of occurred due to you know the proliferation

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Speaker 2: of overhead cam engines where you had a much longer

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Speaker 2: distance between the crank to the cam shafts.

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Speaker 1: Why not, Tody, Cody, Why didn't they stay with timing belt?

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Speaker 1: You know, they went, they went from chain, they went

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Speaker 1: to belt, and then now they're back to chain again,

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Speaker 1: and they're back to belt again. You know, why does

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Speaker 1: it vary so much? Is it? Is it the engine

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Speaker 1: design that creates difference in the need.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the engine design and really the technology. I mean,

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Speaker 2: the biggest reason why we're seeing timing chain systems in

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Speaker 2: modern vehicles was the introduction of variable valve timing. So

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Speaker 2: variable vout timing is typically oil pressure operated, so you know,

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Speaker 2: with that being said, the vvts need to be inside

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Speaker 2: of the oil, you know, the crank face the oil back.

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Speaker 2: So you know, once the introduction of that technology kind

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Speaker 2: of took over, everything's shifted back to a timing chain

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Speaker 2: system underneath the time and cover.

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Speaker 1: So back up a second now, you know, forty years ago,

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Speaker 1: we'll use a small block Chevy. It was kind of

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Speaker 1: like a bicycle sprocket, right, you had a big gear,

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Speaker 1: a little gear. You know, it was like a bicycle chain.

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Speaker 1: You had a chain that you know, connected the two

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Speaker 1: sprockets together. Basic timing chain componentry. And then within the

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Speaker 1: last ten years now we have engines that'll have you know,

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Speaker 1: four cams and one crank or four cams one crank,

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Speaker 1: an idler attention or drive the water pump. You know,

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden, that timing chain is is the

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Speaker 1: essential backbone of the engine, right, and it's it's added

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Speaker 1: more stress and more it does more of a job.

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Speaker 1: You know, have has the amount of timing chain. Obviously

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Speaker 1: the responsibility of the chain is gone up. Do you

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Speaker 1: see more timing chain failures as a result of that

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Speaker 1: added stress?

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Speaker 2: Oh for sure, for sure. You know, like like you said,

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Speaker 2: it can drive with the four four cans, you know,

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Speaker 2: and sometimes you have multiple chains inside the engine to

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Speaker 2: do that. You know, a three chain system or even

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Speaker 2: a four chain system is definitely possible. So yeah, just

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Speaker 2: the demands on the modern system with the BBT operation,

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Speaker 2: like you said, water driving a water pump, driving a

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Speaker 2: balance chaff, driving an oil pump. Just the demands on

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Speaker 2: time and chain systems or are way more than they

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Speaker 2: used to be, for sure.

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Speaker 1: So if you know, in a shortened sentence of if

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Speaker 1: there's something the consumer out there listening or the shops

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Speaker 1: out there that are listening to get their customers to do,

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Speaker 1: what sort of maintenance can people do to help promote

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Speaker 1: the life of a timing chain Because it's not something

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Speaker 1: you can reach in and and grease or lubricate or

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Speaker 1: you know, it's not a it's not a service item

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Speaker 1: during the during the course of an oil change, for example.

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Speaker 1: But there are things that people can do to extend

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Speaker 1: the life of a timing chain.

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Speaker 2: Right Yeah. Oil oil oil is going to be the

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Speaker 2: number one, the number two, and the number three things

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Speaker 2: that they can do to uh, to to keep a

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Speaker 2: timing chain system healthy. Uh. The oil oil is critical

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Speaker 2: both pressure and supply the timing chains all need to

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Speaker 2: be properly lubricated. You have metal links, you know, combined

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Speaker 2: with metal pins you know, working together, so naturally, over

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Speaker 2: time there's going to be ware and then you know,

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Speaker 2: your your time and chain tensioners to keep the chain

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Speaker 2: tight and you know, keep keep instability from occurring.

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Speaker 1: Uh.

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Speaker 2: They all require a massive amount of oil to keep

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Speaker 2: that chain you know, properly tensioned. And then like like

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Speaker 2: I mentioned, modern variable of out timing systems also are

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Speaker 2: are heavily dependent on oil supply. Without that oil supply,

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Speaker 2: you can get instability in that EVT system, which is

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Speaker 2: going to cause damage to the time and change system

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Speaker 2: as well.

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Speaker 1: So let's talk about that for a minute. You know,

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Speaker 1: let's we're gonna pick on Ford here and listen, we

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Speaker 1: could pick on any of the engine manufacturers. They all

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Speaker 1: have their issues with vv T. Ford has known issues

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Speaker 1: with their variable valve timing actuators. Now Kloise makes replacements, right,

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Speaker 1: and that's that's a pretty big that's a pretty big task.

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Speaker 1: It's not easy to go against Ford engineering and say hey,

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Speaker 1: we're making a better mouse trap, right, you know what

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Speaker 1: sort of engineering. You know, It's not like if it

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Speaker 1: happened on Monday. By Tuesday, you don't exactly you can't

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Speaker 1: have the part ready to go out the door. What

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Speaker 1: sort of lead time does it take? You know, Ford

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Speaker 1: decides you you start to look at engines as they

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Speaker 1: fail and break down, you know, is it is it

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Speaker 1: three months to market? Is it six months to market?

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Speaker 1: And and what's sort of some of the steps that

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Speaker 1: you have to go through to verify that what you're

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Speaker 1: doing is actually competent, if not better, And with cloys

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Speaker 1: it's always better.

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Speaker 2: But you know what I'm saying, Yeah, yeah, So kind

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Speaker 2: of in the aftermarket, we had the benefit of some hindsight,

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Speaker 2: you know, applications that were developed to have been on

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Speaker 2: the market for a while. We see the issues, we

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Speaker 2: see some of the solutions that maybe the OE manufacturers

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Speaker 2: come up with along the way to help those you know,

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Speaker 2: initial problems that the new platform may have. Being an

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Speaker 2: internal engine component, we're not coming to market with products

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Speaker 2: as quick as you know a break pad manufacturer may

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Speaker 2: may do. You know, a lot of times, an internal

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Speaker 2: engine component's going to be covered by the power training

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Speaker 2: warranty for for much longer than you know, most most

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Speaker 2: product lines are. So we've got a little bit of

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Speaker 2: benefit there. We've we've got time to kind of study applications, uh,

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Speaker 2: study you know, uh uh you know, uh fixes from

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Speaker 2: the oe manufacturer and come up with a good solution

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Speaker 2: when when necessary to correct some of these issues.

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Speaker 1: So do the manufacturers come and talk to you guys?

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Speaker 1: Do they you know, recognize you who for what you

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Speaker 1: are and who you are and say, hey, we've got

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Speaker 1: this problem. How can we make it better? Have you

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Speaker 1: ever had that opportunity?

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Speaker 2: Well, well, Kloy's is an oe manufacturer. We we've worked

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Speaker 2: with Forward and GM and Nissan and many others and

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Speaker 2: the past, so there is a relationship there. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: a lot of times we're looking at what they've done

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Speaker 2: on their own to find solutions in the aftermarket.

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Speaker 1: So when you know, Fords vvt actuators, it's a problem

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Speaker 1: right on the trucks and such are the engines that

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Speaker 1: I have. It is it the actuator itself or is

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Speaker 1: it more a case of people aren't doing you know,

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Speaker 1: the three reasons of or the three levels of maintenance

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Speaker 1: oil oil oil? Are they Are they doing cheap oil

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Speaker 1: changes and correct oil changes? You know, too long of

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Speaker 1: an oil change interval, and it's just beating the actuators

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Speaker 1: up and they don't work.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it can kind of be a combination of everything.

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Speaker 2: You know, maintenance is absolutely critical. You know on the

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Speaker 2: Ford phasers that have the real bad you know reputation

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Speaker 2: on the forward like five point four liters three valve engines,

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Speaker 2: those those suffered a lot from camshaft journal where and

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Speaker 2: the VVT actuators are fed from the salinoid through the

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Speaker 2: camshaft journal into the camshaft and to get the oil

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Speaker 2: supply to the phasers up front, and a lot of

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Speaker 2: those we're suffering some camshaft journal where which is not

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Speaker 2: allowing the oil supply to it properly reached the DBT.

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Speaker 2: And then we did some things in the aftermarket on

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Speaker 2: the closure replacements to help in situations like that for sure.

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Speaker 1: So in this day and age of tight supply chains, right,

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Speaker 1: it's a it's a it's a tight supply line out there.

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Speaker 1: You know. Today in the shop, we couldn't get oil filters.

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Speaker 1: You ever hear of a car called Honda. We were

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Speaker 1: out of Honda oil, you know, we couldn't get we

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Speaker 1: could and we buy them by the case. The supply

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Speaker 1: house was out of Honda oil. Filters for today, today

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Speaker 1: and tomorrow, probably won't see a shipment until Friday, and

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Speaker 1: you know at what point and how, you know, does

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Speaker 1: that affect toys? You know, you've got to get to

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Speaker 1: the stage where you're going to you know, you can't

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Speaker 1: get certain componentry and you're always sourcing, sourcing, sourcing. Have

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Speaker 1: you changed how you you know, create these kits that you.

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Speaker 2: Make, Well, there's definitely been changes. Know, I will say,

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Speaker 2: Klois was you know, uh leading the industry when it

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Speaker 2: comes to fill rates during during the COVID you know

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Speaker 2: time period. They did a wonderful job preparing for it,

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Speaker 2: having multiple sources for for components, to be prepared for

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Speaker 2: situations like that and just you know, working on our

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Speaker 2: feet to to get you know approved, you know, pushed

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Speaker 2: products through the approval process, you know, to ensure that

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Speaker 2: we had parts to supply our customers.

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Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, because it's it's critical you guys are you

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Speaker 1: guys are so big. You know, you're like the unsung

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Speaker 1: supplier behind the scenes that nobody sees. And you know

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Speaker 1: it's when Kloise runs out of something, it's a problem

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Speaker 1: because a lot of the industry comes to a halt,

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Speaker 1: especially engine assembling without engines, we can't put vehicles together

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Speaker 1: and without vehicles, but we don't have an economy, you know,

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Speaker 1: new war views, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, we we we run into many issues where

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Speaker 2: the oe manufacturers were back ordering, chained. They were six

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Speaker 2: months behind, you know, six months turned into a year

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Speaker 2: real quick. And we were keeping vehicles on the road

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Speaker 2: just just on our own, just just because we had

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Speaker 2: parts and nobody else did.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I bet you. Hey, Cody, let's pull over, take

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Speaker 1: a pause, let me let me, let me ask you

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Speaker 1: to sit tight for a minute. I'm Ron Anie in

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Speaker 1: the Car Doctor. I'm here talking with Cody Smith of

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Speaker 1: Kloy's Gear and Product. We're gonna both take a pause

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Speaker 1: and be right back after this. Don't go away, and

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Speaker 1: we're back. Welcome back, ronnin Aenie and the Car Doctor.

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Speaker 1: We're here talking with Cody Smith of Toys Gear and Product. Cody,

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Speaker 1: welcome back, sir, thanks for sticking around. Can we talk

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Speaker 1: a little bit about replacement interval? You know, is there

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Speaker 1: a replacement interval for for timing change and components? Mean,

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Speaker 1: what parts fail first? Is there something the listeners should

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Speaker 1: be aware of?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean there kind of is, and there kind

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Speaker 2: of is, and I mean chain systems will fatigue before

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Speaker 2: the expected lifespan of an engine, but don't expect a

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Speaker 2: vehicle manufacturer to provide you a replacement interval for you know,

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Speaker 2: time and chain systems like they would on a on

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Speaker 2: a belt system. Time and chain systems really aren't considered

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Speaker 2: by manufacturers as an internal engine component or they are,

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Speaker 2: you know, considered an internal engine component, so you know,

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Speaker 2: the interval is just not provided like like they would

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Speaker 2: on a belt. The expected lifespan, you know, kind of

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Speaker 2: greatly depends on the oil system health for sure, but

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Speaker 2: also the engine design and you know, demands placed on

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Speaker 2: the engine.

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Speaker 1: Is is it acceptable? You know, I mean, can we

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Speaker 1: get an engine to two hundred thousand miles and maybe

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Speaker 1: it doesn't need anything, but it's had, it's had the

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Speaker 1: three levels of maintenance oil, oil, oil, and then and

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Speaker 1: then and then you know the other engine, you know,

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Speaker 1: the other the identical vehicle at one hundred thousand miles.

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Speaker 1: You know, yeah, we went to ten thousand miles on

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Speaker 1: one oil change and we went to twelve on the other,

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Speaker 1: and then we did one at six and then we

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Speaker 1: did one at eight and yeah, it wasn't you know,

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Speaker 1: maybe we didn't use the best oil we could find.

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Speaker 1: We kind of didn't worry about manufacturerspect is that the

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Speaker 1: one that is more likely at the one hundred thousand

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Speaker 1: mile mark that need that timing chain or have a

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Speaker 1: stretch chain or guide failure and all the other possible

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Speaker 1: ways that chains go bad.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, for sure, But there's definitely other factors there.

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Speaker 2: You know, manufacturers are constantly trying to reduce like noise,

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Speaker 2: vibration and harshness and reduce you know, rotating mass. No, no,

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Speaker 2: two timing systems are the same, So you're naturally going

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Speaker 2: to find systems that don't hold up as well as

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Speaker 2: others do. So those MVH initiatives, they have a huge

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Speaker 2: impact on the design of a timing change system. So

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Speaker 2: some chain systems are just designed to withstand a little

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Speaker 2: more abuse than theres are, you know. And then you said,

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Speaker 2: of course oil change inter rules and maintenance is huge.

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Speaker 1: Does does coolant you know, correct coolant coolant service a

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Speaker 1: properly operating cooling system. You know, an engine that's running

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Speaker 1: a little hotter than it's supposed to, is that going

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Speaker 1: to have an effect on timing chain componentry somehow.

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Speaker 2: Some way, I mean it definitely could you know, I

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Speaker 2: would consider kind of the impact on the oiling system

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Speaker 2: when when you're speaking to you know, engine operating temperatures

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Speaker 2: and things like that, right, you know, so of course,

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Speaker 2: a good healthy operating oil system it proper. You know,

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Speaker 2: oil temperatures is going to lubricate better than you know and.

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Speaker 1: Otherwise, so everything everything comes back to maintenance, right, just

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Speaker 1: just just keep doing what they're doing. Oil change is

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Speaker 1: coolant service probably even fuel system cleaning, keeping the engine

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Speaker 1: running balanced and clean. A good PCV system everything comes

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Speaker 1: back to affecting oil life and uh and its ability

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Speaker 1: to lubricate and do what it's supposed to do.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, yeah, yeah, and you nailed it on the

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Speaker 2: PCBs them, you know, engines that have issues with PCV

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Speaker 2: or definitely you know that you're going to see hand

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Speaker 2: in hand TCV issues with with time and chain issues.

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Speaker 1: Sure, so Cody in our last in our last minute

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Speaker 1: and a half kloise. They make some common kits. Now, right,

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Speaker 1: what are some of the common engines? I mean, you

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Speaker 1: guys cover everybody, but what are some of the big

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Speaker 1: sellers right now that Cloys has come to market with.

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Speaker 2: Oh, you know, we've got a full Oe replacement line.

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Speaker 2: We cover over ninety percent of all you know vehicles

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Speaker 2: in the North American market. You know, of course, most

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Speaker 2: commonly are our heavy hitters are going to be like

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Speaker 2: the GM High Future re six that you know had

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Speaker 2: timing system issues from the start. The Ford three five

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Speaker 2: Ford three point five Eco boost applications and even the

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Speaker 2: front will drive three fives are are big because of

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Speaker 2: the driving of the water pump, and water pumps typically

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Speaker 2: have a little sooner replacement interval than the timing system,

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Speaker 2: so a lot of times the system getting replaced as

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Speaker 2: a preventative measure. And of course GM Eco tech is huge.

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Speaker 2: And then we still see a ton of the Ford

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Speaker 2: model deular applications, even though it seems like they hadn't

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Speaker 2: built that engine now in fifteen years, but we're still

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Speaker 2: still a bunch of those things.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I guess I guess that's because there's just

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Speaker 1: so many of those vehicles still out there on the road.

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Speaker 1: And you know, you can you compare the price of

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Speaker 1: a new pickup truck sixty seventy eighty thousand dollars to

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Speaker 1: the place of a you know, a timing chain overhaul

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Speaker 1: a couple of grand It sure makes sense, right.

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Speaker 2: Yep, especially with the price of views vehicles and new

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Speaker 2: vehicles now right yep.

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Speaker 1: Hey Cody, where can the listeners go get more information

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Speaker 1: if they want to, you know, read more about Kloys

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Speaker 1: And may you possibly see you on your YouTube channel?

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Speaker 1: You big star you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Just visit our website at kloys dot com

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Speaker 2: our YouTube channel. Just just search Kloys on YouTube and

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Speaker 2: that should pull right up. And if you really want

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Speaker 2: to keep up to date with new you know, videos

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Speaker 2: and product offerings, you can join our shop master's community

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Speaker 2: on our website at kloys dot com. We'll send you

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Speaker 2: a news newsletter about once a month. We're not going

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Speaker 2: to fill your inbox full of clutter, but but that'd

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Speaker 2: be the best way to really keep up with what

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Speaker 2: we've gotten.

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Speaker 1: New cool being Cody, It's been an absolute pleasure, sir.

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Speaker 1: We'll get you back again real soon. You have a

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Speaker 1: great rest of the weekend.

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Speaker 2: You too, Thanks, Ron, You're very welcome.

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Speaker 1: I'm running any and the Car Doctor. We're back right

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Speaker 1: after this. Don't go away.