Speaker 1: What's that at the foot of my bed. It's spooky
Speaker 1: and kooky. I'm really sure it's dead. It's coming this way.
Speaker 1: Wait a minute, I'm goad. Tyrones ends, Hey boo, it's
Speaker 1: me Roz. Okay, this episode today. Okay, it's a lot.
Speaker 1: There's a lot going on. There are facts, there are stories,
Speaker 1: there are theories, there is just okay. I have on
Speaker 1: John E. L. Tenny and John Is. I believe John
Speaker 1: will go down in history as one of the great
Speaker 1: thinkers of our time on this this type of topic,
Speaker 1: the paranormal world. I mean, John is such a deep
Speaker 1: thinker and someone that really knows what they're talking about.
Speaker 1: And I just I love I love getting to talk
Speaker 1: to him. It was so fun and we talk about
Speaker 1: a wide variety of things and I learned a lot
Speaker 1: and I think that you will as well. And so
Speaker 1: I have some more on Patreon that you can hear.
Speaker 1: We talk about cryptid creatures in Michigan. He does live
Speaker 1: in Michigan, so he knows a lot about Michigan creatures.
Speaker 1: There's a do you know there's a dog man in Michigan. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we talk about it on Patreon, Patreon dot com. Slash
Speaker 1: Hiles dressfuls on my second tier. On my first tier,
Speaker 1: this week I do a little tour of my fun
Speaker 1: Divine Bathroom that is all themed around the drag queen
Speaker 1: legend Divine and a little bit of Angeline thrown in
Speaker 1: there too, So go check that out Patreon. And this
Speaker 1: is another episode that's like it's dent there are. We
Speaker 1: cover a lot of ground, so I'll keep it brief
Speaker 1: in this intro and let's just get into it. Here
Speaker 1: is John E. L Tenny on with the show. All right, hello, John,
Speaker 1: weird question, but how are you?
Speaker 2: I am doing as well as can be expected in
Speaker 2: this very odd and strange time, But I mean I'm
Speaker 2: always doing fantastic every day.
Speaker 3: Is I'm glad that I'm not in the cemetery?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Well, I mean we're both people that really like
Speaker 1: odd and weird things. But I think it's gone to
Speaker 1: a whole different level in recent times, not necessarily in
Speaker 1: the ways that I prefer. But we're hanging in there.
Speaker 1: We're doing our best. And I'm a hermit all along.
Speaker 2: I love sitting in my house reading books, drinking coffee,
Speaker 2: drinking wine and not talking to people.
Speaker 3: So a lot of this is okay with me.
Speaker 1: Honestly same. Well, you're from, what I understand, a Michigander.
Speaker 1: Where do you live in Michigan?
Speaker 3: I am fourteen miles north of Detroit.
Speaker 1: So south, kay, I am.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: I went to your website and I was looking through,
Speaker 1: I mean, so much good stuff on there, but I
Speaker 1: found the different lists that you've done of annual most
Speaker 1: haunted towns in Michigan, and I'm from the twenty fifteen
Speaker 1: number three most haunted town, Grand Rapids.
Speaker 3: Oh well, congratulations.
Speaker 2: Grand Rabbits is a lovely place, but a confusing and
Speaker 2: scary place sometimes.
Speaker 1: We are we are very proud to be known as
Speaker 1: one of the most haunted places. I mean, I've lived
Speaker 1: in la for I think eleven or twelve years now,
Speaker 1: but I'm from there. Have you got there at all?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2: I investigate all over the state of Michigan, all over
Speaker 2: the country, but Michigan's the most easy for me, right
Speaker 2: and since I'm on the you know, I spent the
Speaker 2: early part. I've done this for thirty years now, So
Speaker 2: the first decade was all spent in my area, and
Speaker 2: then slowly I branched out and that east or excuse me,
Speaker 2: west side of the state is really crazy. It has
Speaker 2: lots of bigfoot and ghost hunting, and the lake makes
Speaker 2: a lot of UFO sightings happen over there.
Speaker 3: So I was happy to discover that in my state.
Speaker 1: So this podcast when it started especially was really just
Speaker 1: focused around people with ghost stories, and then now I've
Speaker 1: kind of like expanded a little bit more. I know,
Speaker 1: I mean, I know, I know things about ghosts, I
Speaker 1: don't know a ton about like bigfoots and UFOs. And
Speaker 1: do you have like a a favorite or you know,
Speaker 1: one that you focus most song because it seems like
Speaker 1: you know about all this stuff.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I mean, I think that's great what you
Speaker 2: just said, because kind of my catchphrase for the past
Speaker 2: thirty years is that people should diversify their weirdness because
Speaker 2: you know, as I study a ghost encounter, like it
Speaker 2: starts to sound a lot like alien abduction, or sometimes
Speaker 2: I'll be studying a bigfoot encounter and It'll start to
Speaker 2: sound like a haunting. And I realized a long time ago,
Speaker 2: at least for myself, that there are all these specific
Speaker 2: groups of ghost hunters, bigfoot hunters, UFO hunters, and they
Speaker 2: are investigating a single tentacle of an octopus. It seems
Speaker 2: like they're all interconnected in some way. And I think
Speaker 2: that's really where we can make kind of strides in
Speaker 2: this community is by thinking larger and more strangely about
Speaker 2: what we're thinking about. When you see the image of
Speaker 2: your grandmother or your grandfather floating around in a house,
Speaker 2: we take it for granted that, oh, that's the ghost
Speaker 2: of my grandmother, But like, where are you seeing it?
Speaker 2: Because like when you look at me, you're seeing light
Speaker 2: bouncing off of me. It's going into your eye and
Speaker 2: then into your brain and then it's making an image
Speaker 2: in your brain, so you're actually seeing in your brain. Now,
Speaker 2: if a ghost makes itself solid enough to bounce light,
Speaker 2: that should be very easily detectable by machines because that's
Speaker 2: a lot of mass coming into reality. But we don't
Speaker 2: ever catch that. We can't measure that. So is something
Speaker 2: else happening? Is your grandmother's ghost looking around in your head,
Speaker 2: finding a memory of herself, and then flipping the visualization
Speaker 2: switch in your brain and then you see her. And
Speaker 2: if that's happening, it's far more intimate, far more weird,
Speaker 2: And it's not just when you die you become a
Speaker 2: kind of train lucent person who can walk through walls,
Speaker 2: which I think is way boring.
Speaker 1: I knew you were going to do this. I knew
Speaker 1: that you from what I know of you. You you
Speaker 1: blow people's minds, and you're already doing this for me.
Speaker 1: So thank you. I feel okay. So, you know, a
Speaker 1: lot of people listen to the show. We have a
Speaker 1: pretty diverse audience of people that are you know, real
Speaker 1: into the paranormal, pair of nerds or you know, whatever
Speaker 1: you want to say, and then we also have people
Speaker 1: that just like hearing about this stuff. So for anyone
Speaker 1: that doesn't know you, so so you've done this for
Speaker 1: thirty years now, just a couple of like, you know,
Speaker 1: the typical questions like how how did you get into
Speaker 1: this stuff?
Speaker 2: So a lot of people in this community have stories
Speaker 2: about like when they were little kids and they saw
Speaker 2: a ghostore when they were a little kid they saw UFO.
Speaker 3: I don't have a story like that.
Speaker 2: My story is I was a you know, middle class,
Speaker 2: lower middle class kid just outside of and I hated
Speaker 2: people telling me what I could think about and what
Speaker 2: I couldn't could and couldn't do. And I grew up
Speaker 2: in the punk rock scene in Detroit in the eighties,
Speaker 2: and I think that it kind of stemmed from that.
Speaker 2: When people told me like, don't think about UFOs, don't
Speaker 2: think about bigot, don't think about ghosts. I kind of
Speaker 2: rebelled against that, and so I sought out people who
Speaker 2: investigated ghosts and witches and ceremonial magicians and ufologists and
Speaker 2: I hung out with them, and that's really kind of
Speaker 2: where I started. And all of my friends knew me
Speaker 2: as you know, the weird guy who knew all that
Speaker 2: weird stuff. And when I was going to college, I
Speaker 2: thought I would be a history.
Speaker 3: Teacher with a major in folklore.
Speaker 2: This is nineteen ninety two, and a friend of mine
Speaker 2: called me and said, there's a television show on NBC
Speaker 2: called Unsolved Mysteries and they needed a researcher. Do you
Speaker 2: want to be a researcher for this television show? And
Speaker 2: I dropped out of college and became a researcher for
Speaker 2: Unsolved And.
Speaker 1: Then wait, I did not know this one. Okay, what
Speaker 1: that's one of my favorite shows ever.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I dropped out of college and became one
Speaker 2: of their research staff and worked on Lizzie Bordenhouse's haunting cases,
Speaker 2: The Queen Mary certain big episodes, and then it was
Speaker 2: just kind of off to the races, Like once you
Speaker 2: get into that click of your researcher who works on
Speaker 2: weird shows.
Speaker 3: Especially in the nineties when the X Files hit, it
Speaker 3: was huge.
Speaker 2: There was sightings and very scary stories and all these
Speaker 2: other television programs that needed a researcher. And then you know,
Speaker 2: by the time that paranormal reality television came around in
Speaker 2: two thousand and two, two thousand and three, I was
Speaker 2: still relatively young, you know, I was in my early
Speaker 2: thirties and I had already had fifteen years of experience,
Speaker 2: and so it was off to the races.
Speaker 1: Amazing. So did you move to LA when you were
Speaker 1: working on Unsolved Mysteries or where'd you do that?
Speaker 3: I did it from Detroit.
Speaker 2: I went to LA a full of times just to
Speaker 2: meet with other staff and you know, kind of get
Speaker 2: the feeling for the show. But the majority of our
Speaker 2: research we had researchers spread out all across the country.
Speaker 2: That way, if we had a case that was happening
Speaker 2: in the Midwest, I would run with it with a
Speaker 2: couple of other researchers, and same thing. They had researchers
Speaker 2: all over the country. It was really ultimately cool. I
Speaker 2: never went back to college.
Speaker 1: That's so cool. What do you think of the new
Speaker 1: Unsolved Mysteries.
Speaker 3: I think it's good. I like it.
Speaker 2: I was concerned at first that they were going to
Speaker 2: try and replace Robert Stack, and I'm kind of glad
Speaker 2: they didn't try to do that. I mean, if they
Speaker 2: would have, I would have loved it to have been me.
Speaker 2: I still to this day like walk around in a
Speaker 2: trench coat and I wear suits and ties every day,
Speaker 2: so I feel like I would have been a good fit.
Speaker 3: But there's no.
Speaker 1: Matching Bog in the background.
Speaker 3: With Bog in the.
Speaker 2: Background, I will tell you here's some inside Hollywood stuff
Speaker 2: is to us. If you listen to those first seasons
Speaker 2: with Robert Stack hosting Unsolved Mystery.
Speaker 3: He did a lot of voiceovers.
Speaker 2: He is hammer drunk like he would really oh, he
Speaker 2: would do his voiceovers just gone, and a lot of
Speaker 2: the times you can catch him slurring and you'll catch
Speaker 2: him slipping on words.
Speaker 3: It's really amazing.
Speaker 2: And those walk ups that you were talking about with
Speaker 2: like Bog and smoke behind him and stuff, they would
Speaker 2: shoot a month of those in one day because they'd
Speaker 2: get him sobered up, and they'd get him like eight
Speaker 2: different ties and a couple of different jackets, and then
Speaker 2: they just, you know, let's do this one, let's do
Speaker 2: this one, and they'd hammer all them all out in
Speaker 2: one day.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I'm up. Those are I think about
Speaker 1: those every day and now I'm never going to think
Speaker 1: of them the same. But I'm always like, there's always
Speaker 1: a swing set in the background. There's always like there's
Speaker 1: just there's an alley way, like just these ominous locations
Speaker 1: with him talking, and I had no clue about any
Speaker 1: of that. Did you ever meet him?
Speaker 3: I did one time when I was in Los Angeles.
Speaker 3: I was on the lot and we were at lunch
Speaker 3: and he was sitting by himself, and I thought, well,
Speaker 3: this is my only real chance to meet him. And
Speaker 3: I know he probably doesn't want to be bothered, but
Speaker 3: you know what, do I care. I'm twenty three at
Speaker 3: the time. So I went over and I kind of
Speaker 3: sat down and introduced myself and I said to him,
Speaker 3: I figured, this is my only shot. I just blatantly
Speaker 3: said it like this. I said, do you believe any
Speaker 3: of this shit that we're writing about.
Speaker 2: And that you're talking about? And he laughed, and he said.
Speaker 2: His response was, I'll trying to do my Robert Stack.
Speaker 2: He said, I had a friend in the navy, and
Speaker 2: my friend in the navy told me that he once
Speaker 2: saw a UFO come out of the water, and he
Speaker 2: would have no reason to lie to me.
Speaker 3: And my parents.
Speaker 2: My parents used to have sances in the house and
Speaker 2: I used to watch them from the top step. They
Speaker 2: wouldn't allow me to sit in, but I would watch
Speaker 2: them from the top step of the hallway stairwell. And
Speaker 2: then he paused, and he goes. And my wife. When
Speaker 2: my wife moved to California, the first place she went
Speaker 2: was a fortune teller, a poem reader, and she asked
Speaker 2: her will I be a famous actress? And the fortune
Speaker 2: teller told my wife, you will not be a famous actress,
Speaker 2: but you're gonna marry someone that looks like Robert Stack.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, which is pretty close. Yeah. So when
Speaker 1: we talk about like do you believe this shit or whatever,
Speaker 1: I mean, I can't even imagine like thirty years of
Speaker 1: doing this, like where are you where are you at?
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously there's so many different things, but are
Speaker 1: there things that you're like I'm pretty sure I know
Speaker 1: what this one is.
Speaker 3: It's interesting.
Speaker 2: I think that a lot of people who come into
Speaker 2: this kind of community and world and meet me or
Speaker 2: discover me, sometimes people get really turned off because I
Speaker 2: tell people I don't believe anything. And that is really
Speaker 2: the hardest line to walk in this community, because once
Speaker 2: you believe something, all of your data gets skewed in
Speaker 2: that direction of that belief, and once you disbelieve something,
Speaker 2: you skew your direction in that side. And so to
Speaker 2: walk the line and say like, I don't believe in
Speaker 2: any of it, I have a lot of ideas about it,
Speaker 2: but no one knows. I don't know. I think that's
Speaker 2: the hardest thing to do. And the longer that I've
Speaker 2: done this, the more you know, in a very tropish sense,
Speaker 2: like the longer I do this, the less I know,
Speaker 2: the more I am just completely confounded. When I run
Speaker 2: across a case that seems like it's going to be
Speaker 2: very easy, something that is very discernible, and then it
Speaker 2: just introduces there's a whole new set of parameters that
Speaker 2: blows my mind and makes me reconsider all of this.
Speaker 3: So, I mean, it's all real, and none of it's.
Speaker 1: Real, right, Well, I mean there's there's concrete facts, and
Speaker 1: there's there's things that you can I always feel like
Speaker 1: you can be an expert on cases or theories or
Speaker 1: you know, there's a lot of things you can know,
Speaker 1: which you obviously do, but I'm sure it's hard to
Speaker 1: It's hard for me sometimes when I talk to people
Speaker 1: that are like, this is what that means and this
Speaker 1: is what that is, and it's like, it's, yeah, I
Speaker 1: totally agree with that bias that they that that that
Speaker 1: has and it totally closes you off to other possibilities.
Speaker 2: Well, and I tell people all the time, you're you're right,
Speaker 2: absolutely right. But like if someone in this field or
Speaker 2: in this field of study, if someone gives you a
Speaker 2: declarative sentence like that is a ghost or that is
Speaker 2: a bigfoot, that is a UFO, I really feel like
Speaker 2: that that person who's saying that has no idea what
Speaker 2: they're talking about, because if they did, they would know
Speaker 2: that no one knows what a ghost is. When I
Speaker 2: do lectures and I ask, you know, there'll be a
Speaker 2: crowd of people and I'll say how many people here
Speaker 2: believe in ghosts? And they all raise their hands and
Speaker 2: then they put their hands down and I said, we
Speaker 2: all raised. Every one of you just raised your hand,
Speaker 2: agreeing with yourself because you don't know what the person
Speaker 2: next to you thinks a ghost is. When you have
Speaker 2: a philosophical discussion, and talking about ghosts is a deep one,
Speaker 2: you start that discussion by determining the parameters of the
Speaker 2: word and what the word is going to mean. That way,
Speaker 2: everybody's on the same page. But we've never had that
Speaker 2: experience as a community. We've never sat down and said, Okay,
Speaker 2: a ghost is this, a shadow person? Is that, a phantom?
Speaker 3: Is this?
Speaker 2: A poltergeist is that? And then we can all agree
Speaker 2: or disagree on those parameters. We just oh, yeah, it's
Speaker 2: a ghost, Oh it's an org, Oh it's a bigfoot,
Speaker 2: And then we just agree with ourselves and it doesn't
Speaker 2: really get us anywhere.
Speaker 1: So you don't have do you have like do you
Speaker 1: have a definition of what a ghost is for you?
Speaker 1: Or is that against what you against what you just said.
Speaker 3: I mean, I have.
Speaker 2: Ghostly experiences, but I really don't. I mean, I've had
Speaker 2: enough strange personal experiences to know that having a singular
Speaker 2: idea about what a ghost is is challenging.
Speaker 3: I mean, I have.
Speaker 2: Had conversations with people who vanished immediately, and I don't
Speaker 2: know if that's a ghost, or if that's a Guardian angel,
Speaker 2: or if it was a doppelganger, or if it was
Speaker 2: a Tulpa or an Aggregor. I've also been in a
Speaker 2: room where I've seen, you know, the shadow shape of
Speaker 2: a person disappear in front of twelve other people, and
Speaker 2: that seemed like a ghost too, But it didn't talk,
Speaker 2: and it didn't move, and it wasn't wispy.
Speaker 3: It looked solid. But then I've also had speriences where
Speaker 3: you know, I got a figure walking on camera and
Speaker 3: it was solid and not whispy, and it didn't make
Speaker 3: noise when it moved though, and it walked through a wall. So, like,
Speaker 3: trying to define ghost as a singular thing is just
Speaker 3: very difficult, and I think you end up failing when
Speaker 3: you do it right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean, I I think I really started
Speaker 1: being challenged by what is a ghost when I started
Speaker 1: hearing about astral projection and you know, like the quote
Speaker 1: unquote ghosts of a living person type story. I mean,
Speaker 1: can can you explain more of that to me? I'm
Speaker 1: still like wrapping my head around it.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So one of the like most well researched. Types of
Speaker 2: ghosts at the time were apparitions, and in the late
Speaker 2: eighteen hundreds early nineteen hundreds, this group called That's Society
Speaker 2: for Psychical Research. They put out a two volume set
Speaker 2: of books that was called Phantasms of the Living. They
Speaker 2: studied five thousand cases of aparitioninal sightings, and what they
Speaker 2: found out really challenged back then. They were trying to study,
Speaker 2: you know, quote unquote ghosts, which just people who died
Speaker 2: and then you saw an image of them or a
Speaker 2: version of them. But what they found was that most
Speaker 2: the most common ghost that's seen is a crisis apparition,
Speaker 2: which is you see someone and then you find out
Speaker 2: that that person has died later on or they die
Speaker 2: relatively soon after you see them. But then what are
Speaker 2: you seeing if the person is still alive when you
Speaker 2: see them. A lot of people will say, you know
Speaker 2: that the body goes out, that the soul isn't so
Speaker 2: much connected to the body. It goes up to say
Speaker 2: goodbye everybody. But if the body is still walking around,
Speaker 2: like what is the ghost? Then is that a separate thing?
Speaker 2: Like does that happen after the body dies and then
Speaker 2: the spirit that went out to visit people become something
Speaker 2: else and.
Speaker 1: You become twins.
Speaker 3: You become twins.
Speaker 2: You never know and then you know if you asktro project,
Speaker 2: when you're an astral version of your own body leaves
Speaker 2: this body but you are still alive, do you technically
Speaker 2: become a ghost or are you still alive and you
Speaker 2: have an astral body, and then does that astral body
Speaker 2: have a ghost of its own? So I mean you
Speaker 2: really get into the weeds with it, and when you
Speaker 2: start thinking about ghosts like this is what I love.
Speaker 3: I always have these really like.
Speaker 2: Strange questions that I ask people because I think that
Speaker 2: if you really do deep dives into your thinking about it,
Speaker 2: you can start to find a lot of strangeness in
Speaker 2: your own mind, which is people always see ghosts wearing clothes,
Speaker 2: like they see a woman in a white dress or
Speaker 2: they see a Confederate soldier on a battlefield. Well, then
Speaker 2: my question is always well, if they're dressed, are they
Speaker 2: wearing underwear and socks?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Right, because if they're putting on clothes, and then do
Speaker 3: they have to put the clothes on or do they
Speaker 3: manifest the clothes as they manifest themselves? And then how
Speaker 3: specific are.
Speaker 2: The clothes like a Civil War soldiers outfit has some
Speaker 2: pretty crazy embellishments on it, like who stamped the eagles
Speaker 2: on the buttons and who sowed the clothes that they have,
Speaker 2: And so you have to dive into all of that
Speaker 2: as well, or is it just constructed inside of your
Speaker 2: own mind from what you remember what clothes look like?
Speaker 1: Oh my god. Well, I'm a dragquain and I think
Speaker 1: about what I'm going to be wearing as a ghost constantly,
Speaker 1: and it's a lot of steps, it's a lot of work.
Speaker 1: It takes time to get it all together. That's a lot.
Speaker 1: I hope when I'm a ghost, I don't have to
Speaker 1: deal with all.
Speaker 3: That and just like snap and it's all They're done.
Speaker 1: Well, that's what I like to tell people. Happens. But
Speaker 1: it's not the truth, you know, No, it might it
Speaker 1: might be your truth. Yeah, I guess. I mean, I'm
Speaker 1: keeping my mind open. What are you talking about when
Speaker 1: you say you've encountered what you believe to be a
Speaker 1: human and all of a sudden it disappears. When has
Speaker 1: that happened?
Speaker 3: So that was probably ninety eight.
Speaker 2: I was driving to a lecture of mine in Indiana,
Speaker 2: and I was driving through a kind of corn country.
Speaker 2: The corn was very tall at the time, and I
Speaker 2: had a day or so before the lecture, so I
Speaker 2: was taking back roads and just kind of every time
Speaker 2: I get in Indiana, I stop in Fairmount, which is
Speaker 2: James Dean's hometown. So I take all these little back roads.
Speaker 2: And I was going through this kind of dirt road
Speaker 2: through a cornfield, and there was a crossing sign and
Speaker 2: there was this gentleman standing by the sign and completely
Speaker 2: dressed from like nineteen ten, like hat not top hat,
Speaker 2: derby hat suit vest. I could even see a little
Speaker 2: pocket watch fob. And I pulled up to this crust
Speaker 2: and it was hot out. He just looked like to
Speaker 2: the nines. And I rolled down my window and I said,
Speaker 2: can I give you a lift somewhere?
Speaker 3: Do you need a ride somewhere? And he leaned in
Speaker 3: my window and looked me straight in the face and
Speaker 3: this horrified feeling, like I got chills through myself, and
Speaker 3: he said, you're not the one I'm waiting for. And
Speaker 3: he stood back, and I jammed on the on the
Speaker 3: gas and took off and I looked in my reary
Speaker 3: mirror and there was no one standing there. And I
Speaker 3: got super freaked out, and I called one of my
Speaker 3: friends in Detroit and told her the experience and she's like, oh,
Speaker 3: you were at a crossroads. She's like, I wonder if
Speaker 3: that was the devil and then I was really fucked
Speaker 3: up for like the next week or so.
Speaker 1: Well, do you think that you know, it's there's many
Speaker 1: reasons for such a thing, but do you think that
Speaker 1: there's Okay, how do I say this, like people that
Speaker 1: attract ghosts or is it a thing that because you, uh,
Speaker 1: you know you're looking for ghosts or you're open to it? Like,
Speaker 1: what is what is all that about? When it comes
Speaker 1: to certain people having a lot of different experiences? You know,
Speaker 1: is it connected to the fact that you're a paranormal
Speaker 1: investigator and someone in this field and so you're around
Speaker 1: it and you're kind of asking for it, or you know,
Speaker 1: what is it? Why? Why do some people have all
Speaker 1: these experiences?
Speaker 2: I think for myself, it's because I actively investigate cases
Speaker 2: and ask people, and I end up doing and going
Speaker 2: places that most normal people don't get to go to
Speaker 2: and get to do, and so I'm kind of immersed
Speaker 2: in it. So yes, I have more experiences, but I
Speaker 2: think that this stuff happens to everyone, and it's whether
Speaker 2: not people choose to kind of follow it and notice it.
Speaker 2: I feel like the universe, if it's ever shown us anything,
Speaker 2: it loves to create and kind of play. And I
Speaker 2: think the universe is constantly tapping us on the shoulder,
Speaker 2: asking us if we want to engage with it, and
Speaker 2: most people just don't, And then there are people who do.
Speaker 2: And when you play, the universe plays back.
Speaker 3: Mmm.
Speaker 1: Okay, So is there are there ways of putting boundaries
Speaker 1: on that playtime because I'm like, yeah, I'm down to play,
Speaker 1: just not when I'm laying in bed that nothing is
Speaker 1: allowed in here? Like how do I how is that?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 2: I think your intention makes a big, big point. My
Speaker 2: friends know about my house, that I have a force
Speaker 2: field what I call a force field over my house
Speaker 2: so that nothing can get in here and nothing can
Speaker 2: follow me home and everything knows to stay outside. And
Speaker 2: that has just been a long period of setting my intention,
Speaker 2: of telling everything and thinking to myself, this is my home,
Speaker 2: this is where I belong.
Speaker 3: Only loved ones and friends belong inside of it.
Speaker 2: And it creates I feel like a bubble, like a
Speaker 2: force field to keep me safe, and it has for
Speaker 2: you know, many many years. I was doing an experiment
Speaker 2: with some friends and they wanted to do it in
Speaker 2: my house and I said, well, it's not going to work.
Speaker 2: Is the horse field to keep everything out? And they said,
Speaker 2: can't you just take down a section of it? And
Speaker 2: I said, yeah, fine. So I kind of went through
Speaker 2: my rituals and kind of pulled this force field, I know,
Speaker 2: it sounds crazy, force field down off the back of
Speaker 2: my house. And within an hour, the foundation of my
Speaker 2: house cracked right where I had brought the force field down,
Speaker 2: and my crawl space flooded, and like people were in
Speaker 2: my house when it started to happen, they were like,
Speaker 2: holy shit, like you have to put that back up,
Speaker 2: like stuff is so you And so I did and
Speaker 2: things got better. But there was just this like four
Speaker 2: hour span of time when everything that has been trying
Speaker 2: to get in my house for thirty years was attempting
Speaker 2: to get in at one time, and it was pretty crazy.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I'm picturing like all these ghosts and
Speaker 1: demons and stuff just like waiting outside for you. This
Speaker 1: could be a good business, you know, like a security
Speaker 1: installation business that you could do for people like me
Speaker 1: that just want to know how to keep everything out
Speaker 1: of my house.
Speaker 2: Well, I'll tell you it's funny because whenever I go
Speaker 2: to this is cooked completely non scientific. But many times
Speaker 2: when I go to houses that are having trouble with
Speaker 2: ghosts or what they are calling a ghost or something
Speaker 2: in the house that's weird, the majority of the time,
Speaker 2: they have welcome mats in front of their front door,
Speaker 2: and they've built their house to look welcoming, welcome things in.
Speaker 2: And I feel like that mindset, like my house is
Speaker 2: it looks welcoming and nice and lovely inside. From the
Speaker 2: outside it looks fine too. I mean I up keep
Speaker 2: my lawn and stuff like that.
Speaker 3: But you would never.
Speaker 2: Think of just like walking up to my house, Oh
Speaker 2: that looks like a beautiful house. I'd go inside. Uh.
Speaker 3: And I feel like, maybe stop so much with the
Speaker 3: welcome matts in front of your door, Like maybe it's
Speaker 3: nice to welcome people once you've allowed them to enter
Speaker 3: your house, Like that's a start. And we kind of
Speaker 3: do things like that naturally.
Speaker 2: You know, there's always a door in your house or
Speaker 2: some in some people's apartments where like we don't use
Speaker 2: that side door, and you built a feeling up around
Speaker 2: that door that no one goes in or out that door,
Speaker 2: and if someone comes in, if a neighbor or somebody
Speaker 2: comes in, you always tell, oh, we don't use that door.
Speaker 2: Like that's the way that you need to feel about
Speaker 2: all of your doors when you're thinking about spirits and ghos.
Speaker 1: Okay, see, I'm in such an la mindset. I forget
Speaker 1: that people have welcome maths because here it's like do
Speaker 1: not I have had next door neighbors that I've never
Speaker 1: met for years. That's just very much our mentality out here.
Speaker 1: But way, I want to go back to when you
Speaker 1: were talking about this cornfield possible devil. So where are
Speaker 1: you at with that? With the devil, the demon, the evil,
Speaker 1: the all that kind of stuff? What do you think?
Speaker 3: I mean? I don't.
Speaker 2: Again, this comes back to just my personal ideology. But
Speaker 2: like good and evil are very subjective and they're very
Speaker 2: personal based. And so like when someone tells me that
Speaker 2: there's something as a devil or a demon, like I
Speaker 2: have to realize that that's coming from their place of
Speaker 2: knowledge and their recognition of understanding. Because I've known a
Speaker 2: lot of people who have seemed terrible, but they are nice,
Speaker 2: kind people, and I've known a lot of nice, kind
Speaker 2: people who are absolutely terrible, and I feel like that
Speaker 2: is that is just our universe. And you know a
Speaker 2: story that I tell at my lectures is I went
Speaker 2: to a client's house one time because they said they
Speaker 2: were having some poltergeist problems. And I walked in and
Speaker 2: I was there for maybe an hour, and while I
Speaker 2: was there, there were some juice glasses that were thrown
Speaker 2: and a screen door was kicked out, and I was
Speaker 2: scratched and my hair was pulled, and I told them
Speaker 2: I wasn't going to take the case because their children
Speaker 2: were terrible, and their children were the ones throwing glasses
Speaker 2: and breaking out screen doors and attacking me.
Speaker 3: And the reason I tell that story, if I.
Speaker 2: Wouldn't have known that there were children in the house,
Speaker 2: I would have thought that there were demons in the house.
Speaker 2: But those children weren't even bad or mean. Those children
Speaker 2: were trying to get someone to pay attention to them,
Speaker 2: and they were doing whatever, by whatever means necessary to
Speaker 2: get someone to notice them. And so I think when
Speaker 2: people go into a location and they're scratched or something breaks,
Speaker 2: or they hear a weird sound. Because of movies and
Speaker 2: television and the way they're brought up. They immediately scream
Speaker 2: demon or they say it's evil without really thinking through
Speaker 2: the I mean, we're fine sitting here right now talking
Speaker 2: because we can get up and leave whenever we want.
Speaker 2: But imagine how frustrated or sad or angry you would
Speaker 2: be if you had to be sitting where you're sitting
Speaker 2: right now for ten years by yourself, or fifteen or
Speaker 2: fifty or one hundred.
Speaker 3: You might get frustrated. And it doesn't mean that you've
Speaker 3: become evil or you're a demon. It just means that
Speaker 3: you're lonely and you would like some connection.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean with having to quarantine. I feel like
Speaker 1: that's actually pretty relatable after just one year. I can
Speaker 1: only imagine decades and decades of this. I would be, yeah,
Speaker 1: an evil bitch, and people would think that I'm a
Speaker 1: demon for sure. And I think that, you know, I
Speaker 1: like that you said that about people's perceptions because I
Speaker 1: think you know, punk rock and coughs and you know,
Speaker 1: drag queens and all these counterculture people that I've always
Speaker 1: been around. It's like there are always going to be
Speaker 1: people that view that as being you know, weird in
Speaker 1: a bad way, or evil or whatever, and it's like,
Speaker 1: those are some of the best people I've ever met,
Speaker 1: you know, like it's they're actually really good people. It's
Speaker 1: just people's perceptions of what they associate with being bad.
Speaker 1: I think a lot of times it's a lack of understanding.
Speaker 1: People say I don't understand that, so it means it's bad,
Speaker 1: is basically what it is.
Speaker 2: I start, you know, my website is Weird Lectures, and
Speaker 2: I call myself a weirdo, and my old podcast is
Speaker 2: called Realm of the Weird and the reason they use
Speaker 2: weird so much, and I have a little story about
Speaker 2: this on my website. The first time that someone called
Speaker 2: me a weirdo was in high school, and it was
Speaker 2: while they were beating me up. I got beat up
Speaker 2: a lot in high school, and I thought to myself
Speaker 2: in that moment, a weirdo must be a person who
Speaker 2: gets beaten up, not a person who beats people up.
Speaker 2: I'm okay with being a person who doesn't beat other
Speaker 2: people up. And then as I got older and started
Speaker 2: to become really fascinated with words and language, I looked
Speaker 2: up the word weirdo and where that stems from, and
Speaker 2: weird comes from a fourteenth century word wyrd, and it
Speaker 2: was a word that was thrown at people who lived
Speaker 2: on the outskirts of villages and towns, and people who
Speaker 2: didn't submit their wills to the kings and queens and
Speaker 2: land barons and baronesses. It literally means a weirdo is
Speaker 2: a person who manifests their own destiny. And so when
Speaker 2: I call someone a weirdo, I'm giving them the greatest
Speaker 2: compliment that I have in my arsenal. I'm saying that
Speaker 2: you are the determiner of your life, and you are
Speaker 2: the manifestor of your own destiny.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I love that. Oh that's good. Good, Yeah, thanks
Speaker 1: for that. I like that a lot. I also always
Speaker 1: feel like the opposite of weird is boring. That's just
Speaker 1: my own definition is it's a good thing.
Speaker 2: I don't know why people want to live in a
Speaker 2: world that doesn't have bigfoot and elves and ghosts and UFOs.
Speaker 3: Like what a boring world?
Speaker 1: Right? Well, okay, can we talk about UFOs? So UFOs
Speaker 1: are something that I don't I like, don't I'm fascinated by.
Speaker 1: I haven't talked a ton about on this podcast, mainly
Speaker 1: because I usually have on you know, Hollywood types and
Speaker 1: they tell their stories and they have a couple of
Speaker 1: ghost stories. Very rarely we've had possible alien type stories,
Speaker 1: but so it hasn't really come up. And then I've
Speaker 1: been trying to incorporate it a little bit more. But
Speaker 1: then I'm also I get nervous because I feel like
Speaker 1: these days there's conspiracy theories that like have really gotten
Speaker 1: out of hand and they've gotten kind of scary, and well, yeah,
Speaker 1: they've gotten real scary and dangerous, and I'm always like
Speaker 1: afraid that when I'm talking about theories that are involving
Speaker 1: the government and all these large, large ideas, that I'm
Speaker 1: going to be getting the wrong information or I'm not
Speaker 1: going to actually know what I'm talking about. So how
Speaker 1: do I how do I do that? How do I
Speaker 1: know about this stuff without being you know, where do
Speaker 1: you get the accurate information these days?
Speaker 2: I mean the first thing. The other thing is, you know,
Speaker 2: I started professionally. My mentor in research was a man
Speaker 2: named Craig Chaconi, who was a teacher a historian who
Speaker 2: studied political assassinations of the nineteen sixties and seventies. So
Speaker 2: my first lectures back in the late eighties early nineties
Speaker 2: were all conspiratorial lectures, and so to watch what's happened
Speaker 2: now is an outrage to my mental processes because conspiracy
Speaker 2: theories were always meant as a way to do mental gymnastics,
Speaker 2: to strengthen your critical thinking skills. It was a way
Speaker 2: to think about history and challenge the ideas of history
Speaker 2: while figuring out what the kind of combined history actually
Speaker 2: was and not what it has become, which is just
Speaker 2: kind of high insanity when it comes to researching anything.
Speaker 2: I mean, you have to find as many various sources
Speaker 2: as you can. You pick and choose what you like
Speaker 2: and what suits you and what works for you, and
Speaker 2: then you challenge that belief with other people and hopefully
Speaker 2: with a larger group you construct better ideas. That doesn't
Speaker 2: seem to be happening now in the conspiratorial world. But
Speaker 2: the good thing about UFO is is that it doesn't
Speaker 2: have to be conspiratorial. There are a lot of people
Speaker 2: who want government disclosure and the Air Force needs to
Speaker 2: tell us, and there are secret groups who know about UFOs,
Speaker 2: and it doesn't have to be that way. Likes traditionally,
Speaker 2: historically throughout the ages have presented themselves to everyday normal
Speaker 2: human beings who tell their stories, and we have hundreds
Speaker 2: of thousands of those stories from credible people who talk
Speaker 2: about their interactions with what seem to be extraterrestrials and UFOs,
Speaker 2: And so you don't even need to get the government
Speaker 2: involved in it. I don't know why the people would
Speaker 2: want the government to tell them anything anyway, Like, I'd
Speaker 2: much rather talk to a person who's seen a UFO
Speaker 2: than a government group who's getting millions of tax dollars
Speaker 2: to not tell me about UFOs.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I've seen these articles that because of
Speaker 1: the COVID Relief Bill, there's supposed to be things coming out.
Speaker 1: I mean, is that legit?
Speaker 2: They're supposed to release a committee document that's investigating Unidentified
Speaker 2: Aerial Phenomena UAP, which is the new UFO designation. But
Speaker 2: the thing is is, again, like all of this might
Speaker 2: seem really new to people who don't know that much
Speaker 2: about UFOs, but you know Project blue Book, which was
Speaker 2: a government UFO group that was in the nineteen sixties,
Speaker 2: and that was born out of Project Grudge, which was
Speaker 2: based out of Project Saucer, which is based out of
Speaker 2: you know, there have always been government projects investigating this
Speaker 2: stuff like the government investigates everything they you know, from
Speaker 2: the mk ultra experiments, testing LSD on people to doing
Speaker 2: remote viewing. The government is interested in weird stuff too,
Speaker 2: because it's filled with people, and people are interested in
Speaker 2: weird stuff. So I don't think that it's anything groundbreaking.
Speaker 2: It's nothing that we haven't not seen before. They always
Speaker 2: every few years form a group that's going to study
Speaker 2: UFOs and then they release a report and then it's
Speaker 2: back on us to figure it out.
Speaker 1: Did you going back to Unsolved Mysteries, what did you
Speaker 1: think of that UFO one from the recent Netflix Unsolved Mysteries?
Speaker 1: Did you know that's story before?
Speaker 3: I did know that story. I thought that that story
Speaker 3: was handled pretty well.
Speaker 2: I really wish I know that people are interested in
Speaker 2: kind of newer stories. I'm interested in like the old
Speaker 2: UFO stories because they are so much more fun. Like
Speaker 2: when someone you know lands in they're from Venus and
Speaker 2: they take someone to Mars and they eat dinner with
Speaker 2: the King of Mars and they have giant dogs that
Speaker 2: are like thirty feet tall.
Speaker 3: That's a actual story.
Speaker 1: Really.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah.
Speaker 2: Buck Nelson who was a farmer in Missouri, he got
Speaker 2: taken on a trip to Venus Mars in the moon
Speaker 2: and he saw giant dogs and eight with the King
Speaker 2: of Mars, and they're just these kind of lovely stories
Speaker 2: that always end with the message of extraterrestrials being be
Speaker 2: nice to your planet and be nice to your other
Speaker 2: each other. That's like the fifties and sixties, that's all
Speaker 2: the aliens told people was be nice to each other
Speaker 2: and be nice to to the planet. And something happened
Speaker 2: in the seventies, eighties, and nineties where it became now
Speaker 2: it's little gray, black eyed humanoids that abduct people in
Speaker 2: their room and do experiments on them.
Speaker 3: So something changed.
Speaker 1: Wow. Okay, So have you seen one at any point
Speaker 1: or have you seen anything that's led you to believe
Speaker 1: that could be a UFO.
Speaker 2: I've seen I've had three or four sightings of things
Speaker 2: that did not seem to fly like anything that I
Speaker 2: would recognize. And then the last time, which I think
Speaker 2: was three years ago or four years ago, there's an
Speaker 2: experiment that people can do. So if your listeners want experiment,
Speaker 2: if you think you're seeing a UFO, stare at it
Speaker 2: and think really hard in your mind, I.
Speaker 3: Can see you, can you see me?
Speaker 2: And then wait, for it to flow over your head,
Speaker 2: which is what I did when the last time I
Speaker 2: saw these three objects flying around and they were not
Speaker 2: flying like airplanes. I was actually with someone else, my
Speaker 2: friend Mike, and I told him, I said, we're gonna
Speaker 2: look at those UFOs and we're gonna tell him we
Speaker 2: can see him. And he was like whatever. And as
Speaker 2: soon as we started doing that, they moved from really
Speaker 2: far off they turned toward us and flew directly over
Speaker 2: our heads.
Speaker 1: Wait, this is in Michigan.
Speaker 3: Yeah, in the Upper Peninsula.
Speaker 1: Does that kind of a thing work with ghosts too?
Speaker 1: Like I can see you like? Can you from your experience?
Speaker 1: Do you think that that kind of a thing, You
Speaker 1: can talk to a ghost in that way if you
Speaker 1: see like an apparition or you feel a presence, Is
Speaker 1: that effective? Do you think?
Speaker 3: I do.
Speaker 2: I think it's far more probably effective than speaking out loud.
Speaker 2: I have a little chapter. I wrote a book last
Speaker 2: year called Theoretical Weirdo, and one of the chapters is
Speaker 2: called the Discernible Brain. And I think that ghosts don't
Speaker 2: have physical ears, and so when I talk, I'm just
Speaker 2: making waves through the air vibrations. And the reason you
Speaker 2: can hear me is because you have an ear and
Speaker 2: so your brain is translating those waves into sounds. But
Speaker 2: a ghost doesn't have a physical ear. So then how
Speaker 2: is it hearing my voice? I don't think it is.
Speaker 2: I think it's hearing the intention of my words behind
Speaker 2: my voice. And historically cross culturally around the world. Globally,
Speaker 2: the most used form of quote unquote spirit communication is prayer.
Speaker 2: People close their eyes and they speak inside of their
Speaker 2: mind and they know that their thoughts are being discerned,
Speaker 2: and so I do think it works with what we
Speaker 2: call ghosts.
Speaker 1: Okay, well, let me just ask you a couple more questions.
Speaker 1: You've been so generous with your time. I so appreciate it. You,
Speaker 1: as expected, are blowing my mind. So basically, I know
Speaker 1: this is like kind of a basic question. But do
Speaker 1: you think that, say we know all the answers goes
Speaker 1: in UFO. Do you think that that's going to happen?
Speaker 1: And if it does, are we all out of business?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 2: I think that I really do think that we're not
Speaker 2: supposed to know. I think that knowing what happens after life,
Speaker 2: what happens to us after we die, I think that
Speaker 2: that makes life less beautiful. I think that really takes
Speaker 2: away from this experience. And I wrote somewhere, Once you know, Once,
Speaker 2: I wrote, once all of the stars have been cataloged
Speaker 2: and classified. Once the experience of life after death has
Speaker 2: been written down in endless books and stored on bookshelves.
Speaker 2: Once we know how everything works, why it works, and
Speaker 2: how it's going to work, then humanity will exist forever,
Speaker 2: yawning like like the point of one of the points.
Speaker 2: At least for me, the idea that I have of
Speaker 2: being human is a quest to understand things. And I
Speaker 2: tell people all the time. If there's no such thing
Speaker 2: as ghosts, and there's no such thing as bigfoot, and
Speaker 2: there's no such thing as UFOs, if those things are
Speaker 2: only a mechanism for us to talk to each other
Speaker 2: about our deep inner thoughts, then it's still vastly important.
Speaker 1: Yeah, where do you see I mean, particularly like ghost hunting.
Speaker 1: I mean it's obviously gotten real big on television, and
Speaker 1: you know, where do you see it going? Do you
Speaker 1: see anything anything new happening? Or are we heading in
Speaker 1: a direction of being able to figure anything else out?
Speaker 2: I think that we're moving into a realm of which
Speaker 2: I think is good. I think we're moving into a
Speaker 2: more philosophical realm. I think that we're moving away from
Speaker 2: you die and become a translucent version of yourself. Like,
Speaker 2: I think that that idea is going away, and we're
Speaker 2: starting to recognize that we don't understand the fundamental nature
Speaker 2: of being human.
Speaker 3: We don't understand how our consciousness works.
Speaker 2: We don't really understand every time we think we've solved
Speaker 2: the riddle of the universe, the universe play is when
Speaker 2: you try and play with it, and so it gives
Speaker 2: you a smaller or a bigger thing to look at,
Speaker 2: It gives you dark matter, or it gives you vibrating
Speaker 2: strings that are beyond the quantum realm. And I really
Speaker 2: think that where we need to be, whether it be
Speaker 2: with UFO's Ghosts, Bigfoot, whatever, I think we do need
Speaker 2: to be more philosophical, and so I think that's where
Speaker 2: we're headed. But you won't see it in popular media.
Speaker 2: I mean, you're not going to see a television show
Speaker 2: of six people sitting around a table talking about the
Speaker 2: nature of life and death and Bigfoot place in it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that even when I started this podcast
Speaker 1: two years ago, I was still coming from that mindset
Speaker 1: that you kind of get from TV and movies and
Speaker 1: spooky and I'm happy to have talked to more and
Speaker 1: more people and just to expand on ideas. And I
Speaker 1: feel that what you're talking about, that shift that has
Speaker 1: been happening. I have felt as well with the way
Speaker 1: that we're approaching this stuff and the conversations we're having
Speaker 1: and and and heading away from the direction of this
Speaker 1: is how things are and it's scary, and that's that. Like,
Speaker 1: I really like to hear different ideas and experiences and
Speaker 1: I want I'm excited to see where that leads us.
Speaker 2: I mean, ten years ago, you and I couldn't have
Speaker 2: done this type of conversation, Like it just wouldn't have
Speaker 2: been listenable to anyone because people only wanted to hear stories.
Speaker 2: And there is something too that I love telling ghost stories.
Speaker 2: I have a lot of good ghost stories, and that's fine,
Speaker 2: but I feel like what people need to hear is
Speaker 2: that there are other people thinking more deeply about it
Speaker 2: than just here's a spooky thing that happened to me
Speaker 2: one time.
Speaker 1: Well okay, but also I still have a little bit
Speaker 1: of that old mentality in me. And you just said
Speaker 1: ghost stories, can we just hear like one more like real, unexplainable,
Speaker 1: what the fuck kind of a story that you've experienced?
Speaker 2: Sure, So I had a husband and a wife who
Speaker 2: had bought a house. They said that there was something
Speaker 2: wrong with one of the upstairs bedrooms. They thought that
Speaker 2: it was haunted. So they called me. I did what
Speaker 2: I do. I went there, and I couldn't find any
Speaker 2: reason that that room should feel weird. It didn't feel
Speaker 2: weird to me, but they said that they did feel
Speaker 2: this strangeness in that room, a heaviness and darkness. So
Speaker 2: I started contacting all of the former owners of the house,
Speaker 2: and eventually I had got to a woman who had
Speaker 2: lived in the house just previous to them buying it,
Speaker 2: who wouldn't return my calls. And so I thought, well,
Speaker 2: either she doesn't want to talk about ghosts, or she's
Speaker 2: the reason, like she knows what's what went on in
Speaker 2: that room?
Speaker 1: Were you leaving messages like I'm looking for ghost answers or.
Speaker 3: I approach it a lot more serious.
Speaker 1: Hey, I want ghost answers, lady.
Speaker 3: But eventually what happened.
Speaker 2: She did call me and she said, you know, I
Speaker 2: just I grew up in that house and I have
Speaker 2: a lot of bad experiences with that house and I
Speaker 2: just don't like to talk about it. And she related
Speaker 2: to me a story about when she was little, her
Speaker 2: mother and father would lock her in the closet of
Speaker 2: her bedroom for you know, hours on end, six to
Speaker 2: eight hours, sometimes overnight, damn.
Speaker 3: And she would just sit in that closet and cry.
Speaker 3: And I confirm her.
Speaker 2: I said, well, it's not that room because the room
Speaker 2: I'm talking about is upstairs and doesn't have a closet,
Speaker 2: so it's not that room. And that made her feel
Speaker 2: a little bit better. But that got me to thinking.
Speaker 2: So I went to the city hall and I pulled
Speaker 2: the original construction plans on the house, and I contacted
Speaker 2: the husband and the wife. I went back to the
Speaker 2: house and we tore down in that room one of
Speaker 2: the dry wall walls that was up because someone had
Speaker 2: dry walled over a closet, and we found the closet
Speaker 2: behind the dry wall. It was the closet that the
Speaker 2: girl had been locked in when she was little. And
Speaker 2: when I went home that night, there was a message
Speaker 2: on my answering machine from her and it basically said listen.
Speaker 2: I don't know if it was because I talked about
Speaker 2: it for the first time in years or what happened.
Speaker 2: But this afternoon I felt like I had been released
Speaker 2: from that house. So thank you for whatever you did
Speaker 2: and just talking to me about it. The husband and
Speaker 2: wife said that room had felt fine ever since. So
Speaker 2: when we were talking earlier about what a ghost is,
Speaker 2: this woman was haunting her house, her childhood home, but
Speaker 2: even though she was alive, she had left something in
Speaker 2: that closet and we let it out and resolve that issue.
Speaker 3: Weird.
Speaker 1: Oh that's a good one. Okay, Well, can you tell
Speaker 1: people where to find you? And all the stuff you
Speaker 1: got going on.
Speaker 3: My website is weird Lectures.
Speaker 2: And then I've tried to make all my social media
Speaker 2: very easy, so everything like Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, all that
Speaker 2: is just John John E L Tenny t E N
Speaker 2: N E y or I tell people all the time
Speaker 2: just go on Google, type my last name Tenny and
Speaker 2: weirdo after it, and then follow it wherever it leads.
Speaker 1: Well, I endorse your Twitter. I think you're really funny
Speaker 1: on Twitter, and I love the stuff that you share.
Speaker 1: You also on your website talk about you do you
Speaker 1: do paranormal investigations and people can contact you. Can you
Speaker 1: just also tell us what that looks like for you
Speaker 1: how that process goes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's somewhat in depth. People contact me, I
Speaker 2: have them write down their experience and email it to
Speaker 2: me or mail it to me. I go over the
Speaker 2: little facts that they'll have given me, and then we
Speaker 2: meet in a safe location, maybe a couple weeks later,
Speaker 2: go back over the story. I'll determine if I need
Speaker 2: to do more investigations, and then if it does warrant
Speaker 2: a deeper investigation, I'll start pulling property records and contacting
Speaker 2: former homeowners, and I'll even have clients. If I take
Speaker 2: someone out as a client, I'm going to make them
Speaker 2: go and see a therapist, I'm going to ask for
Speaker 2: permission to talk to their doctors and get a really
Speaker 2: full read on the family, and if it warrants investigation
Speaker 2: after that. So now we're probably by this time two
Speaker 2: or three months or maybe even longer in then I'll
Speaker 2: start investigating the house physically, but there's a lot of
Speaker 2: groundwork to do before I even walk in.
Speaker 1: Wow, have you been in situations where they're like, no,
Speaker 1: we need you now.
Speaker 2: I have, And those don't work out very well. And
Speaker 2: a lot of the times it, I mean, you don't
Speaker 2: really know what you're walking into. Sometimes I was working
Speaker 2: on a television show really quickly, and the whole crew
Speaker 2: was there. We had flown to the location, got to
Speaker 2: the location, and I had figured that the network had
Speaker 2: been doing you know, history and study of the location
Speaker 2: and the family and stuff, and they obviously had not.
Speaker 2: I walked into the house, and within like minutes, I
Speaker 2: knew that there were massive non paranormal problems in the family,
Speaker 2: that there were addiction issues and abuse issues, Like as
Speaker 2: soon as I walked in the house, you could tell.
Speaker 2: And I went outside and I told the producer, like,
Speaker 2: we don't need to be here. They don't need a
Speaker 2: paranormal team investigating their house. They need therapy and they
Speaker 2: need to talk to doctors and you know whoever they
Speaker 2: need to talk to. And the network said, no, you're
Speaker 2: going to go in there and investigate that for a ghost.
Speaker 2: And I walked off the set and that show never
Speaker 2: got made.
Speaker 1: Damn you would think that they would. Yeah, I feel
Speaker 1: like that work needs to be done for sure. Yes,
Speaker 1: is that when you decided to do that kind of
Speaker 1: process or were you already doing that kind of a thing.
Speaker 2: I was already doing that kind of thing. You know
Speaker 2: there were ten years when I first started where people
Speaker 2: would call it me and I just run out to
Speaker 2: the house or the location and start investigating. But you
Speaker 2: learn very quickly that people can be scarier than ghosts.
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely. Oh my god, so much to think about.
Speaker 1: Thank you to John. Please go check out everything that
Speaker 1: John does. I am a stun and go to Patreon
Speaker 1: dot com slash Roz dress Flees to hear me talking
Speaker 1: to John Moore about cryptid creatures in Michigan. Guys, this
Speaker 1: is you know, we're still in the pandemic. We're still
Speaker 1: doing it, but I am committed to continuing to give
Speaker 1: you some fun ghosty contents, so make sure you check
Speaker 1: me out on stereo. Stereo dot com. Slash Roz Dress
Speaker 1: Fales join the Facebook group Ghosted by Roz dress Fales.
Speaker 1: You know what I'd love, I would love it so
Speaker 1: much if you could tell your friends about the show.
Speaker 1: I love when you post on an Insta story or
Speaker 1: just you know, word of mouth. That's always good. And
Speaker 1: another thing that's really good for the show is five
Speaker 1: stars on Apple Podcasts and leave a nice review, or
Speaker 1: if you leave five stars, leave a ghost story. Maybe
Speaker 1: I'll read it on the show. At some point, I
Speaker 1: would love to do some more listener episodes, so send
Speaker 1: those over to ghosted by Roz at gmail dot com
Speaker 1: with the subject line listener episode and I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'm sure there's other places you can find me Instagram,
Speaker 1: Rose Dress, well as all the places I love you, all,
Speaker 1: both living and dead. But if I didn't ask you
Speaker 1: to haunt me, don't haunt me. Came Back Star, a
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