1 00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:10,720 Speaker 1: What's that at the foot of my bed. It's spooky 2 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:14,480 Speaker 1: and kooky. I'm really sure it's dead. It's coming this way. 3 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:27,479 Speaker 1: Wait a minute, I'm goad. Tyrones ends, Hey boo, it's 4 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 1: me Roz. Okay, this episode today. Okay, it's a lot. 5 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:38,879 Speaker 1: There's a lot going on. There are facts, there are stories, 6 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:43,479 Speaker 1: there are theories, there is just okay. I have on 7 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:49,960 Speaker 1: John E. L. Tenny and John Is. I believe John 8 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:52,440 Speaker 1: will go down in history as one of the great 9 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:56,720 Speaker 1: thinkers of our time on this this type of topic, 10 00:00:57,080 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 1: the paranormal world. I mean, John is such a deep 11 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:05,959 Speaker 1: thinker and someone that really knows what they're talking about. 12 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 1: And I just I love I love getting to talk 13 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:15,399 Speaker 1: to him. It was so fun and we talk about 14 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:21,199 Speaker 1: a wide variety of things and I learned a lot 15 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:25,320 Speaker 1: and I think that you will as well. And so 16 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:27,840 Speaker 1: I have some more on Patreon that you can hear. 17 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 1: We talk about cryptid creatures in Michigan. He does live 18 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:34,800 Speaker 1: in Michigan, so he knows a lot about Michigan creatures. 19 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:39,399 Speaker 1: There's a do you know there's a dog man in Michigan. Yeah, 20 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:41,839 Speaker 1: we talk about it on Patreon, Patreon dot com. Slash 21 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:44,959 Speaker 1: Hiles dressfuls on my second tier. On my first tier, 22 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:48,200 Speaker 1: this week I do a little tour of my fun 23 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:52,760 Speaker 1: Divine Bathroom that is all themed around the drag queen 24 00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:57,080 Speaker 1: legend Divine and a little bit of Angeline thrown in 25 00:01:57,120 --> 00:02:02,640 Speaker 1: there too, So go check that out Patreon. And this 26 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 1: is another episode that's like it's dent there are. We 27 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 1: cover a lot of ground, so I'll keep it brief 28 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 1: in this intro and let's just get into it. Here 29 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:21,399 Speaker 1: is John E. L Tenny on with the show. All right, hello, John, 30 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:23,920 Speaker 1: weird question, but how are you? 31 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 2: I am doing as well as can be expected in 32 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:31,959 Speaker 2: this very odd and strange time, But I mean I'm 33 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 2: always doing fantastic every day. 34 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:37,800 Speaker 3: Is I'm glad that I'm not in the cemetery? 35 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:42,840 Speaker 1: Yeah? Well, I mean we're both people that really like 36 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:45,360 Speaker 1: odd and weird things. But I think it's gone to 37 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:49,519 Speaker 1: a whole different level in recent times, not necessarily in 38 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 1: the ways that I prefer. But we're hanging in there. 39 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:56,800 Speaker 1: We're doing our best. And I'm a hermit all along. 40 00:02:57,040 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 2: I love sitting in my house reading books, drinking coffee, 41 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:02,359 Speaker 2: drinking wine and not talking to people. 42 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 3: So a lot of this is okay with me. 43 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:10,560 Speaker 1: Honestly same. Well, you're from, what I understand, a Michigander. 44 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:11,960 Speaker 1: Where do you live in Michigan? 45 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 3: I am fourteen miles north of Detroit. 46 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 1: So south, kay, I am. 47 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:19,800 Speaker 3: You know. 48 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:22,320 Speaker 1: I went to your website and I was looking through, 49 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:25,480 Speaker 1: I mean, so much good stuff on there, but I 50 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 1: found the different lists that you've done of annual most 51 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:33,639 Speaker 1: haunted towns in Michigan, and I'm from the twenty fifteen 52 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:36,240 Speaker 1: number three most haunted town, Grand Rapids. 53 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 3: Oh well, congratulations. 54 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:42,840 Speaker 2: Grand Rabbits is a lovely place, but a confusing and 55 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 2: scary place sometimes. 56 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 1: We are we are very proud to be known as 57 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 1: one of the most haunted places. I mean, I've lived 58 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:56,360 Speaker 1: in la for I think eleven or twelve years now, 59 00:03:56,720 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 1: but I'm from there. Have you got there at all? 60 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 2: Oh? 61 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:02,559 Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely. 62 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:05,880 Speaker 2: I investigate all over the state of Michigan, all over 63 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 2: the country, but Michigan's the most easy for me, right 64 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:11,720 Speaker 2: and since I'm on the you know, I spent the 65 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 2: early part. I've done this for thirty years now, So 66 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:19,160 Speaker 2: the first decade was all spent in my area, and 67 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 2: then slowly I branched out and that east or excuse me, 68 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 2: west side of the state is really crazy. It has 69 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:30,200 Speaker 2: lots of bigfoot and ghost hunting, and the lake makes 70 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 2: a lot of UFO sightings happen over there. 71 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 3: So I was happy to discover that in my state. 72 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:41,159 Speaker 1: So this podcast when it started especially was really just 73 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:45,040 Speaker 1: focused around people with ghost stories, and then now I've 74 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:48,360 Speaker 1: kind of like expanded a little bit more. I know, 75 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 1: I mean, I know, I know things about ghosts, I 76 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 1: don't know a ton about like bigfoots and UFOs. And 77 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:01,400 Speaker 1: do you have like a a favorite or you know, 78 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:04,600 Speaker 1: one that you focus most song because it seems like 79 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 1: you know about all this stuff. 80 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:08,359 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I mean, I think that's great what you 81 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:11,360 Speaker 2: just said, because kind of my catchphrase for the past 82 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 2: thirty years is that people should diversify their weirdness because 83 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:21,039 Speaker 2: you know, as I study a ghost encounter, like it 84 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:24,840 Speaker 2: starts to sound a lot like alien abduction, or sometimes 85 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 2: I'll be studying a bigfoot encounter and It'll start to 86 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:30,800 Speaker 2: sound like a haunting. And I realized a long time ago, 87 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 2: at least for myself, that there are all these specific 88 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:39,480 Speaker 2: groups of ghost hunters, bigfoot hunters, UFO hunters, and they 89 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 2: are investigating a single tentacle of an octopus. It seems 90 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:48,360 Speaker 2: like they're all interconnected in some way. And I think 91 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:54,039 Speaker 2: that's really where we can make kind of strides in 92 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:58,919 Speaker 2: this community is by thinking larger and more strangely about 93 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:02,479 Speaker 2: what we're thinking about. When you see the image of 94 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 2: your grandmother or your grandfather floating around in a house, 95 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 2: we take it for granted that, oh, that's the ghost 96 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:14,320 Speaker 2: of my grandmother, But like, where are you seeing it? 97 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:17,920 Speaker 2: Because like when you look at me, you're seeing light 98 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 2: bouncing off of me. It's going into your eye and 99 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:22,119 Speaker 2: then into your brain and then it's making an image 100 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:24,520 Speaker 2: in your brain, so you're actually seeing in your brain. Now, 101 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:27,560 Speaker 2: if a ghost makes itself solid enough to bounce light, 102 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:33,480 Speaker 2: that should be very easily detectable by machines because that's 103 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 2: a lot of mass coming into reality. But we don't 104 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 2: ever catch that. We can't measure that. So is something 105 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:44,360 Speaker 2: else happening? Is your grandmother's ghost looking around in your head, 106 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 2: finding a memory of herself, and then flipping the visualization 107 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:51,680 Speaker 2: switch in your brain and then you see her. And 108 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:55,160 Speaker 2: if that's happening, it's far more intimate, far more weird, 109 00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 2: And it's not just when you die you become a 110 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:01,680 Speaker 2: kind of train lucent person who can walk through walls, 111 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:02,760 Speaker 2: which I think is way boring. 112 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:06,280 Speaker 1: I knew you were going to do this. I knew 113 00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 1: that you from what I know of you. You you 114 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 1: blow people's minds, and you're already doing this for me. 115 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 1: So thank you. I feel okay. So, you know, a 116 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 1: lot of people listen to the show. We have a 117 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 1: pretty diverse audience of people that are you know, real 118 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 1: into the paranormal, pair of nerds or you know, whatever 119 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 1: you want to say, and then we also have people 120 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:31,320 Speaker 1: that just like hearing about this stuff. So for anyone 121 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:34,160 Speaker 1: that doesn't know you, so so you've done this for 122 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 1: thirty years now, just a couple of like, you know, 123 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 1: the typical questions like how how did you get into 124 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:41,560 Speaker 1: this stuff? 125 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 2: So a lot of people in this community have stories 126 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 2: about like when they were little kids and they saw 127 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 2: a ghostore when they were a little kid they saw UFO. 128 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:51,200 Speaker 3: I don't have a story like that. 129 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:57,280 Speaker 2: My story is I was a you know, middle class, 130 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:01,080 Speaker 2: lower middle class kid just outside of and I hated 131 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 2: people telling me what I could think about and what 132 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:06,840 Speaker 2: I couldn't could and couldn't do. And I grew up 133 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 2: in the punk rock scene in Detroit in the eighties, 134 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 2: and I think that it kind of stemmed from that. 135 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 2: When people told me like, don't think about UFOs, don't 136 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:17,560 Speaker 2: think about bigot, don't think about ghosts. I kind of 137 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 2: rebelled against that, and so I sought out people who 138 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:27,560 Speaker 2: investigated ghosts and witches and ceremonial magicians and ufologists and 139 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:31,120 Speaker 2: I hung out with them, and that's really kind of 140 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:34,040 Speaker 2: where I started. And all of my friends knew me 141 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 2: as you know, the weird guy who knew all that 142 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:41,880 Speaker 2: weird stuff. And when I was going to college, I 143 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:44,160 Speaker 2: thought I would be a history. 144 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:45,439 Speaker 3: Teacher with a major in folklore. 145 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:49,680 Speaker 2: This is nineteen ninety two, and a friend of mine 146 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:53,559 Speaker 2: called me and said, there's a television show on NBC 147 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 2: called Unsolved Mysteries and they needed a researcher. Do you 148 00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:59,080 Speaker 2: want to be a researcher for this television show? And 149 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 2: I dropped out of college and became a researcher for 150 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 2: Unsolved And. 151 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:05,559 Speaker 1: Then wait, I did not know this one. Okay, what 152 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:07,439 Speaker 1: that's one of my favorite shows ever. 153 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, So I dropped out of college and became one 154 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:16,440 Speaker 2: of their research staff and worked on Lizzie Bordenhouse's haunting cases, 155 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:21,400 Speaker 2: The Queen Mary certain big episodes, and then it was 156 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 2: just kind of off to the races, Like once you 157 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:26,760 Speaker 2: get into that click of your researcher who works on 158 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:27,319 Speaker 2: weird shows. 159 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:29,320 Speaker 3: Especially in the nineties when the X Files hit, it 160 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:29,720 Speaker 3: was huge. 161 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:32,880 Speaker 2: There was sightings and very scary stories and all these 162 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:36,760 Speaker 2: other television programs that needed a researcher. And then you know, 163 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:39,960 Speaker 2: by the time that paranormal reality television came around in 164 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:42,560 Speaker 2: two thousand and two, two thousand and three, I was 165 00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:45,040 Speaker 2: still relatively young, you know, I was in my early 166 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:48,439 Speaker 2: thirties and I had already had fifteen years of experience, 167 00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:50,800 Speaker 2: and so it was off to the races. 168 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:54,440 Speaker 1: Amazing. So did you move to LA when you were 169 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:57,040 Speaker 1: working on Unsolved Mysteries or where'd you do that? 170 00:09:57,559 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 3: I did it from Detroit. 171 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 2: I went to LA a full of times just to 172 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 2: meet with other staff and you know, kind of get 173 00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:06,559 Speaker 2: the feeling for the show. But the majority of our 174 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:09,160 Speaker 2: research we had researchers spread out all across the country. 175 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:12,320 Speaker 2: That way, if we had a case that was happening 176 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:14,320 Speaker 2: in the Midwest, I would run with it with a 177 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 2: couple of other researchers, and same thing. They had researchers 178 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 2: all over the country. It was really ultimately cool. I 179 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:21,679 Speaker 2: never went back to college. 180 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:25,560 Speaker 1: That's so cool. What do you think of the new 181 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:26,839 Speaker 1: Unsolved Mysteries. 182 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:31,320 Speaker 3: I think it's good. I like it. 183 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:33,320 Speaker 2: I was concerned at first that they were going to 184 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:38,400 Speaker 2: try and replace Robert Stack, and I'm kind of glad 185 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:42,440 Speaker 2: they didn't try to do that. I mean, if they 186 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 2: would have, I would have loved it to have been me. 187 00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 2: I still to this day like walk around in a 188 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:50,800 Speaker 2: trench coat and I wear suits and ties every day, 189 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:52,400 Speaker 2: so I feel like I would have been a good fit. 190 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:53,360 Speaker 3: But there's no. 191 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:54,880 Speaker 1: Matching Bog in the background. 192 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:55,840 Speaker 3: With Bog in the. 193 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:59,520 Speaker 2: Background, I will tell you here's some inside Hollywood stuff 194 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 2: is to us. If you listen to those first seasons 195 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:06,439 Speaker 2: with Robert Stack hosting Unsolved Mystery. 196 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 3: He did a lot of voiceovers. 197 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:12,319 Speaker 2: He is hammer drunk like he would really oh, he 198 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:15,600 Speaker 2: would do his voiceovers just gone, and a lot of 199 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:17,760 Speaker 2: the times you can catch him slurring and you'll catch 200 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:19,080 Speaker 2: him slipping on words. 201 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 3: It's really amazing. 202 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:22,880 Speaker 2: And those walk ups that you were talking about with 203 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:25,200 Speaker 2: like Bog and smoke behind him and stuff, they would 204 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:27,720 Speaker 2: shoot a month of those in one day because they'd 205 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:30,839 Speaker 2: get him sobered up, and they'd get him like eight 206 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:33,200 Speaker 2: different ties and a couple of different jackets, and then 207 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:35,440 Speaker 2: they just, you know, let's do this one, let's do 208 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:37,680 Speaker 2: this one, and they'd hammer all them all out in 209 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:38,360 Speaker 2: one day. 210 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:43,839 Speaker 1: Oh my god, I'm up. Those are I think about 211 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:46,040 Speaker 1: those every day and now I'm never going to think 212 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:48,960 Speaker 1: of them the same. But I'm always like, there's always 213 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:52,080 Speaker 1: a swing set in the background. There's always like there's 214 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:55,800 Speaker 1: just there's an alley way, like just these ominous locations 215 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:58,440 Speaker 1: with him talking, and I had no clue about any 216 00:11:58,480 --> 00:11:59,839 Speaker 1: of that. Did you ever meet him? 217 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:03,240 Speaker 3: I did one time when I was in Los Angeles. 218 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:05,680 Speaker 3: I was on the lot and we were at lunch 219 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:08,800 Speaker 3: and he was sitting by himself, and I thought, well, 220 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:12,560 Speaker 3: this is my only real chance to meet him. And 221 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:14,400 Speaker 3: I know he probably doesn't want to be bothered, but 222 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 3: you know what, do I care. I'm twenty three at 223 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 3: the time. So I went over and I kind of 224 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 3: sat down and introduced myself and I said to him, 225 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:27,320 Speaker 3: I figured, this is my only shot. I just blatantly 226 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:29,400 Speaker 3: said it like this. I said, do you believe any 227 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:31,239 Speaker 3: of this shit that we're writing about. 228 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:35,000 Speaker 2: And that you're talking about? And he laughed, and he said. 229 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:40,679 Speaker 2: His response was, I'll trying to do my Robert Stack. 230 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:44,320 Speaker 2: He said, I had a friend in the navy, and 231 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:46,800 Speaker 2: my friend in the navy told me that he once 232 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:49,480 Speaker 2: saw a UFO come out of the water, and he 233 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:51,240 Speaker 2: would have no reason to lie to me. 234 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:52,920 Speaker 3: And my parents. 235 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:56,000 Speaker 2: My parents used to have sances in the house and 236 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:58,520 Speaker 2: I used to watch them from the top step. They 237 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:00,480 Speaker 2: wouldn't allow me to sit in, but I would watch 238 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:03,800 Speaker 2: them from the top step of the hallway stairwell. And 239 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:07,160 Speaker 2: then he paused, and he goes. And my wife. When 240 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 2: my wife moved to California, the first place she went 241 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 2: was a fortune teller, a poem reader, and she asked 242 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 2: her will I be a famous actress? And the fortune 243 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:20,200 Speaker 2: teller told my wife, you will not be a famous actress, 244 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:23,280 Speaker 2: but you're gonna marry someone that looks like Robert Stack. 245 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:39,400 Speaker 1: Oh my god, which is pretty close. Yeah. So when 246 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:42,840 Speaker 1: we talk about like do you believe this shit or whatever, 247 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:46,800 Speaker 1: I mean, I can't even imagine like thirty years of 248 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:49,760 Speaker 1: doing this, like where are you where are you at? 249 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:52,720 Speaker 1: I mean, obviously there's so many different things, but are 250 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:56,280 Speaker 1: there things that you're like I'm pretty sure I know 251 00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:57,280 Speaker 1: what this one is. 252 00:13:58,920 --> 00:13:59,560 Speaker 3: It's interesting. 253 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:02,720 Speaker 2: I think that a lot of people who come into 254 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:07,520 Speaker 2: this kind of community and world and meet me or 255 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:10,560 Speaker 2: discover me, sometimes people get really turned off because I 256 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:15,320 Speaker 2: tell people I don't believe anything. And that is really 257 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:18,760 Speaker 2: the hardest line to walk in this community, because once 258 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:21,480 Speaker 2: you believe something, all of your data gets skewed in 259 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 2: that direction of that belief, and once you disbelieve something, 260 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:29,080 Speaker 2: you skew your direction in that side. And so to 261 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:31,600 Speaker 2: walk the line and say like, I don't believe in 262 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 2: any of it, I have a lot of ideas about it, 263 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:38,040 Speaker 2: but no one knows. I don't know. I think that's 264 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:40,840 Speaker 2: the hardest thing to do. And the longer that I've 265 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:45,320 Speaker 2: done this, the more you know, in a very tropish sense, 266 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:47,800 Speaker 2: like the longer I do this, the less I know, 267 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:51,160 Speaker 2: the more I am just completely confounded. When I run 268 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:53,320 Speaker 2: across a case that seems like it's going to be 269 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 2: very easy, something that is very discernible, and then it 270 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:02,360 Speaker 2: just introduces there's a whole new set of parameters that 271 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 2: blows my mind and makes me reconsider all of this. 272 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 3: So, I mean, it's all real, and none of it's. 273 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:13,040 Speaker 1: Real, right, Well, I mean there's there's concrete facts, and 274 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:16,720 Speaker 1: there's there's things that you can I always feel like 275 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:22,240 Speaker 1: you can be an expert on cases or theories or 276 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 1: you know, there's a lot of things you can know, 277 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 1: which you obviously do, but I'm sure it's hard to 278 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:32,000 Speaker 1: It's hard for me sometimes when I talk to people 279 00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:34,240 Speaker 1: that are like, this is what that means and this 280 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:37,560 Speaker 1: is what that is, and it's like, it's, yeah, I 281 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:41,440 Speaker 1: totally agree with that bias that they that that that 282 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:46,720 Speaker 1: has and it totally closes you off to other possibilities. 283 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:50,040 Speaker 2: Well, and I tell people all the time, you're you're right, 284 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 2: absolutely right. But like if someone in this field or 285 00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:57,520 Speaker 2: in this field of study, if someone gives you a 286 00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:01,600 Speaker 2: declarative sentence like that is a ghost or that is 287 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:04,880 Speaker 2: a bigfoot, that is a UFO, I really feel like 288 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 2: that that person who's saying that has no idea what 289 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 2: they're talking about, because if they did, they would know 290 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:14,200 Speaker 2: that no one knows what a ghost is. When I 291 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:16,840 Speaker 2: do lectures and I ask, you know, there'll be a 292 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:18,720 Speaker 2: crowd of people and I'll say how many people here 293 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:21,720 Speaker 2: believe in ghosts? And they all raise their hands and 294 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 2: then they put their hands down and I said, we 295 00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:26,960 Speaker 2: all raised. Every one of you just raised your hand, 296 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:29,800 Speaker 2: agreeing with yourself because you don't know what the person 297 00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:32,880 Speaker 2: next to you thinks a ghost is. When you have 298 00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 2: a philosophical discussion, and talking about ghosts is a deep one, 299 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 2: you start that discussion by determining the parameters of the 300 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:43,720 Speaker 2: word and what the word is going to mean. That way, 301 00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:46,120 Speaker 2: everybody's on the same page. But we've never had that 302 00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:49,960 Speaker 2: experience as a community. We've never sat down and said, Okay, 303 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:54,720 Speaker 2: a ghost is this, a shadow person? Is that, a phantom? 304 00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:55,080 Speaker 3: Is this? 305 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:57,600 Speaker 2: A poltergeist is that? And then we can all agree 306 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:00,760 Speaker 2: or disagree on those parameters. We just oh, yeah, it's 307 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 2: a ghost, Oh it's an org, Oh it's a bigfoot, 308 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:06,119 Speaker 2: And then we just agree with ourselves and it doesn't 309 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:07,120 Speaker 2: really get us anywhere. 310 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:10,320 Speaker 1: So you don't have do you have like do you 311 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:12,720 Speaker 1: have a definition of what a ghost is for you? 312 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:17,359 Speaker 1: Or is that against what you against what you just said. 313 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:18,560 Speaker 3: I mean, I have. 314 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:23,880 Speaker 2: Ghostly experiences, but I really don't. I mean, I've had 315 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:28,760 Speaker 2: enough strange personal experiences to know that having a singular 316 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:31,520 Speaker 2: idea about what a ghost is is challenging. 317 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:32,840 Speaker 3: I mean, I have. 318 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:37,880 Speaker 2: Had conversations with people who vanished immediately, and I don't 319 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:40,000 Speaker 2: know if that's a ghost, or if that's a Guardian angel, 320 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:42,399 Speaker 2: or if it was a doppelganger, or if it was 321 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:45,600 Speaker 2: a Tulpa or an Aggregor. I've also been in a 322 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:49,280 Speaker 2: room where I've seen, you know, the shadow shape of 323 00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 2: a person disappear in front of twelve other people, and 324 00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:54,320 Speaker 2: that seemed like a ghost too, But it didn't talk, 325 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:56,440 Speaker 2: and it didn't move, and it wasn't wispy. 326 00:17:56,520 --> 00:18:00,959 Speaker 3: It looked solid. But then I've also had speriences where 327 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:05,840 Speaker 3: you know, I got a figure walking on camera and 328 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:09,800 Speaker 3: it was solid and not whispy, and it didn't make 329 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:13,199 Speaker 3: noise when it moved though, and it walked through a wall. So, like, 330 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:16,520 Speaker 3: trying to define ghost as a singular thing is just 331 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:19,399 Speaker 3: very difficult, and I think you end up failing when 332 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:20,760 Speaker 3: you do it right. 333 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:25,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean, I I think I really started 334 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:28,520 Speaker 1: being challenged by what is a ghost when I started 335 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:34,320 Speaker 1: hearing about astral projection and you know, like the quote 336 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:39,280 Speaker 1: unquote ghosts of a living person type story. I mean, 337 00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:44,000 Speaker 1: can can you explain more of that to me? I'm 338 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:46,120 Speaker 1: still like wrapping my head around it. 339 00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:46,760 Speaker 3: Yeah. 340 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:53,040 Speaker 2: So one of the like most well researched. Types of 341 00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:57,440 Speaker 2: ghosts at the time were apparitions, and in the late 342 00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 2: eighteen hundreds early nineteen hundreds, this group called That's Society 343 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:03,960 Speaker 2: for Psychical Research. They put out a two volume set 344 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:06,679 Speaker 2: of books that was called Phantasms of the Living. They 345 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 2: studied five thousand cases of aparitioninal sightings, and what they 346 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:15,080 Speaker 2: found out really challenged back then. They were trying to study, 347 00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:18,359 Speaker 2: you know, quote unquote ghosts, which just people who died 348 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:20,720 Speaker 2: and then you saw an image of them or a 349 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:23,680 Speaker 2: version of them. But what they found was that most 350 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:27,680 Speaker 2: the most common ghost that's seen is a crisis apparition, 351 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:31,360 Speaker 2: which is you see someone and then you find out 352 00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:33,800 Speaker 2: that that person has died later on or they die 353 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:38,600 Speaker 2: relatively soon after you see them. But then what are 354 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:41,560 Speaker 2: you seeing if the person is still alive when you 355 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:45,520 Speaker 2: see them. A lot of people will say, you know 356 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:49,000 Speaker 2: that the body goes out, that the soul isn't so 357 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:50,600 Speaker 2: much connected to the body. It goes up to say 358 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:53,200 Speaker 2: goodbye everybody. But if the body is still walking around, 359 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:56,440 Speaker 2: like what is the ghost? Then is that a separate thing? 360 00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:58,880 Speaker 2: Like does that happen after the body dies and then 361 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:01,600 Speaker 2: the spirit that went out to visit people become something 362 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:02,320 Speaker 2: else and. 363 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:03,920 Speaker 1: You become twins. 364 00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:05,360 Speaker 3: You become twins. 365 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:09,480 Speaker 2: You never know and then you know if you asktro project, 366 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:14,360 Speaker 2: when you're an astral version of your own body leaves 367 00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:17,240 Speaker 2: this body but you are still alive, do you technically 368 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:20,520 Speaker 2: become a ghost or are you still alive and you 369 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:24,080 Speaker 2: have an astral body, and then does that astral body 370 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:28,520 Speaker 2: have a ghost of its own? So I mean you 371 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:30,480 Speaker 2: really get into the weeds with it, and when you 372 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:32,560 Speaker 2: start thinking about ghosts like this is what I love. 373 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:34,920 Speaker 3: I always have these really like. 374 00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:39,639 Speaker 2: Strange questions that I ask people because I think that 375 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 2: if you really do deep dives into your thinking about it, 376 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:45,159 Speaker 2: you can start to find a lot of strangeness in 377 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:48,800 Speaker 2: your own mind, which is people always see ghosts wearing clothes, 378 00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:51,000 Speaker 2: like they see a woman in a white dress or 379 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 2: they see a Confederate soldier on a battlefield. Well, then 380 00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:58,679 Speaker 2: my question is always well, if they're dressed, are they 381 00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:00,720 Speaker 2: wearing underwear and socks? 382 00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:02,199 Speaker 1: Yeah? 383 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:05,719 Speaker 3: Right, because if they're putting on clothes, and then do 384 00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:08,040 Speaker 3: they have to put the clothes on or do they 385 00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:12,720 Speaker 3: manifest the clothes as they manifest themselves? And then how 386 00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:13,639 Speaker 3: specific are. 387 00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:17,439 Speaker 2: The clothes like a Civil War soldiers outfit has some 388 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:21,280 Speaker 2: pretty crazy embellishments on it, like who stamped the eagles 389 00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:25,159 Speaker 2: on the buttons and who sowed the clothes that they have, 390 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:28,040 Speaker 2: And so you have to dive into all of that 391 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:31,040 Speaker 2: as well, or is it just constructed inside of your 392 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:33,840 Speaker 2: own mind from what you remember what clothes look like? 393 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:38,760 Speaker 1: Oh my god. Well, I'm a dragquain and I think 394 00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:41,440 Speaker 1: about what I'm going to be wearing as a ghost constantly, 395 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:45,280 Speaker 1: and it's a lot of steps, it's a lot of work. 396 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:49,280 Speaker 1: It takes time to get it all together. That's a lot. 397 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 1: I hope when I'm a ghost, I don't have to 398 00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:51,440 Speaker 1: deal with all. 399 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:54,840 Speaker 3: That and just like snap and it's all They're done. 400 00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:57,240 Speaker 1: Well, that's what I like to tell people. Happens. But 401 00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:02,119 Speaker 1: it's not the truth, you know, No, it might it 402 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:05,880 Speaker 1: might be your truth. Yeah, I guess. I mean, I'm 403 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:09,000 Speaker 1: keeping my mind open. What are you talking about when 404 00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:12,879 Speaker 1: you say you've encountered what you believe to be a 405 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:15,440 Speaker 1: human and all of a sudden it disappears. When has 406 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:16,120 Speaker 1: that happened? 407 00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:20,320 Speaker 3: So that was probably ninety eight. 408 00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:25,680 Speaker 2: I was driving to a lecture of mine in Indiana, 409 00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:28,160 Speaker 2: and I was driving through a kind of corn country. 410 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:31,399 Speaker 2: The corn was very tall at the time, and I 411 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:33,399 Speaker 2: had a day or so before the lecture, so I 412 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:36,360 Speaker 2: was taking back roads and just kind of every time 413 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:39,639 Speaker 2: I get in Indiana, I stop in Fairmount, which is 414 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:42,760 Speaker 2: James Dean's hometown. So I take all these little back roads. 415 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:46,840 Speaker 2: And I was going through this kind of dirt road 416 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:52,399 Speaker 2: through a cornfield, and there was a crossing sign and 417 00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 2: there was this gentleman standing by the sign and completely 418 00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:02,360 Speaker 2: dressed from like nineteen ten, like hat not top hat, 419 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:07,920 Speaker 2: derby hat suit vest. I could even see a little 420 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:12,800 Speaker 2: pocket watch fob. And I pulled up to this crust 421 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:16,760 Speaker 2: and it was hot out. He just looked like to 422 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:20,040 Speaker 2: the nines. And I rolled down my window and I said, 423 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:21,919 Speaker 2: can I give you a lift somewhere? 424 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:24,440 Speaker 3: Do you need a ride somewhere? And he leaned in 425 00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:26,680 Speaker 3: my window and looked me straight in the face and 426 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:30,639 Speaker 3: this horrified feeling, like I got chills through myself, and 427 00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:35,159 Speaker 3: he said, you're not the one I'm waiting for. And 428 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:38,080 Speaker 3: he stood back, and I jammed on the on the 429 00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:40,240 Speaker 3: gas and took off and I looked in my reary 430 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:43,720 Speaker 3: mirror and there was no one standing there. And I 431 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:45,800 Speaker 3: got super freaked out, and I called one of my 432 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:49,880 Speaker 3: friends in Detroit and told her the experience and she's like, oh, 433 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:52,199 Speaker 3: you were at a crossroads. She's like, I wonder if 434 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:55,320 Speaker 3: that was the devil and then I was really fucked 435 00:23:55,359 --> 00:24:00,080 Speaker 3: up for like the next week or so. 436 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:06,320 Speaker 1: Well, do you think that you know, it's there's many 437 00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:09,440 Speaker 1: reasons for such a thing, but do you think that 438 00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:12,920 Speaker 1: there's Okay, how do I say this, like people that 439 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:17,120 Speaker 1: attract ghosts or is it a thing that because you, uh, 440 00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:20,639 Speaker 1: you know you're looking for ghosts or you're open to it? Like, 441 00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:23,680 Speaker 1: what is what is all that about? When it comes 442 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:28,479 Speaker 1: to certain people having a lot of different experiences? You know, 443 00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:31,080 Speaker 1: is it connected to the fact that you're a paranormal 444 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:34,560 Speaker 1: investigator and someone in this field and so you're around 445 00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:37,199 Speaker 1: it and you're kind of asking for it, or you know, 446 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:39,520 Speaker 1: what is it? Why? Why do some people have all 447 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:40,560 Speaker 1: these experiences? 448 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:45,680 Speaker 2: I think for myself, it's because I actively investigate cases 449 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:47,960 Speaker 2: and ask people, and I end up doing and going 450 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:50,800 Speaker 2: places that most normal people don't get to go to 451 00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:54,040 Speaker 2: and get to do, and so I'm kind of immersed 452 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:56,600 Speaker 2: in it. So yes, I have more experiences, but I 453 00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:59,880 Speaker 2: think that this stuff happens to everyone, and it's whether 454 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:03,680 Speaker 2: not people choose to kind of follow it and notice it. 455 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:07,520 Speaker 2: I feel like the universe, if it's ever shown us anything, 456 00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:12,000 Speaker 2: it loves to create and kind of play. And I 457 00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:15,040 Speaker 2: think the universe is constantly tapping us on the shoulder, 458 00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:17,479 Speaker 2: asking us if we want to engage with it, and 459 00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:21,360 Speaker 2: most people just don't, And then there are people who do. 460 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:24,000 Speaker 2: And when you play, the universe plays back. 461 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:24,800 Speaker 3: Mmm. 462 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:29,959 Speaker 1: Okay, So is there are there ways of putting boundaries 463 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:34,560 Speaker 1: on that playtime because I'm like, yeah, I'm down to play, 464 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:37,879 Speaker 1: just not when I'm laying in bed that nothing is 465 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:40,639 Speaker 1: allowed in here? Like how do I how is that? 466 00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:41,280 Speaker 1: You know? 467 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:45,919 Speaker 2: I think your intention makes a big, big point. My 468 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:49,880 Speaker 2: friends know about my house, that I have a force 469 00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:52,040 Speaker 2: field what I call a force field over my house 470 00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:54,200 Speaker 2: so that nothing can get in here and nothing can 471 00:25:54,240 --> 00:26:00,160 Speaker 2: follow me home and everything knows to stay outside. And 472 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:03,800 Speaker 2: that has just been a long period of setting my intention, 473 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:07,080 Speaker 2: of telling everything and thinking to myself, this is my home, 474 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:08,119 Speaker 2: this is where I belong. 475 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:10,760 Speaker 3: Only loved ones and friends belong inside of it. 476 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:15,280 Speaker 2: And it creates I feel like a bubble, like a 477 00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:18,760 Speaker 2: force field to keep me safe, and it has for 478 00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:22,440 Speaker 2: you know, many many years. I was doing an experiment 479 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,000 Speaker 2: with some friends and they wanted to do it in 480 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:26,840 Speaker 2: my house and I said, well, it's not going to work. 481 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:28,720 Speaker 2: Is the horse field to keep everything out? And they said, 482 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:32,199 Speaker 2: can't you just take down a section of it? And 483 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 2: I said, yeah, fine. So I kind of went through 484 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:38,800 Speaker 2: my rituals and kind of pulled this force field, I know, 485 00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:41,119 Speaker 2: it sounds crazy, force field down off the back of 486 00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:47,080 Speaker 2: my house. And within an hour, the foundation of my 487 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:50,280 Speaker 2: house cracked right where I had brought the force field down, 488 00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:54,239 Speaker 2: and my crawl space flooded, and like people were in 489 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:55,960 Speaker 2: my house when it started to happen, they were like, 490 00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:58,160 Speaker 2: holy shit, like you have to put that back up, 491 00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:01,959 Speaker 2: like stuff is so you And so I did and 492 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:04,720 Speaker 2: things got better. But there was just this like four 493 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:07,920 Speaker 2: hour span of time when everything that has been trying 494 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:10,120 Speaker 2: to get in my house for thirty years was attempting 495 00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:12,400 Speaker 2: to get in at one time, and it was pretty crazy. 496 00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:15,239 Speaker 1: Oh my god, I'm picturing like all these ghosts and 497 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:19,200 Speaker 1: demons and stuff just like waiting outside for you. This 498 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:21,879 Speaker 1: could be a good business, you know, like a security 499 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:25,840 Speaker 1: installation business that you could do for people like me 500 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:28,880 Speaker 1: that just want to know how to keep everything out 501 00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:29,520 Speaker 1: of my house. 502 00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:34,800 Speaker 2: Well, I'll tell you it's funny because whenever I go 503 00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:39,800 Speaker 2: to this is cooked completely non scientific. But many times 504 00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:43,439 Speaker 2: when I go to houses that are having trouble with 505 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:46,359 Speaker 2: ghosts or what they are calling a ghost or something 506 00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:49,320 Speaker 2: in the house that's weird, the majority of the time, 507 00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:52,120 Speaker 2: they have welcome mats in front of their front door, 508 00:27:54,720 --> 00:28:01,200 Speaker 2: and they've built their house to look welcoming, welcome things in. 509 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:07,600 Speaker 2: And I feel like that mindset, like my house is 510 00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:11,040 Speaker 2: it looks welcoming and nice and lovely inside. From the 511 00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:13,440 Speaker 2: outside it looks fine too. I mean I up keep 512 00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:14,800 Speaker 2: my lawn and stuff like that. 513 00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:16,720 Speaker 3: But you would never. 514 00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:18,480 Speaker 2: Think of just like walking up to my house, Oh 515 00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:21,040 Speaker 2: that looks like a beautiful house. I'd go inside. Uh. 516 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:25,280 Speaker 3: And I feel like, maybe stop so much with the 517 00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:29,360 Speaker 3: welcome matts in front of your door, Like maybe it's 518 00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:31,959 Speaker 3: nice to welcome people once you've allowed them to enter 519 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:33,960 Speaker 3: your house, Like that's a start. And we kind of 520 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:35,240 Speaker 3: do things like that naturally. 521 00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:37,920 Speaker 2: You know, there's always a door in your house or 522 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:41,040 Speaker 2: some in some people's apartments where like we don't use 523 00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:44,840 Speaker 2: that side door, and you built a feeling up around 524 00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:47,760 Speaker 2: that door that no one goes in or out that door, 525 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:49,880 Speaker 2: and if someone comes in, if a neighbor or somebody 526 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:51,800 Speaker 2: comes in, you always tell, oh, we don't use that door. 527 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:54,200 Speaker 2: Like that's the way that you need to feel about 528 00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:57,040 Speaker 2: all of your doors when you're thinking about spirits and ghos. 529 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 1: Okay, see, I'm in such an la mindset. I forget 530 00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:05,560 Speaker 1: that people have welcome maths because here it's like do 531 00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:09,600 Speaker 1: not I have had next door neighbors that I've never 532 00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:15,000 Speaker 1: met for years. That's just very much our mentality out here. 533 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:18,239 Speaker 1: But way, I want to go back to when you 534 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:24,280 Speaker 1: were talking about this cornfield possible devil. So where are 535 00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:27,400 Speaker 1: you at with that? With the devil, the demon, the evil, 536 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:29,800 Speaker 1: the all that kind of stuff? What do you think? 537 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:31,080 Speaker 3: I mean? I don't. 538 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:34,880 Speaker 2: Again, this comes back to just my personal ideology. But 539 00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:41,040 Speaker 2: like good and evil are very subjective and they're very 540 00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:44,840 Speaker 2: personal based. And so like when someone tells me that 541 00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:47,000 Speaker 2: there's something as a devil or a demon, like I 542 00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:49,240 Speaker 2: have to realize that that's coming from their place of 543 00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:52,640 Speaker 2: knowledge and their recognition of understanding. Because I've known a 544 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:56,520 Speaker 2: lot of people who have seemed terrible, but they are nice, 545 00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:59,040 Speaker 2: kind people, and I've known a lot of nice, kind 546 00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:03,320 Speaker 2: people who are absolutely terrible, and I feel like that 547 00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:07,560 Speaker 2: is that is just our universe. And you know a 548 00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:10,400 Speaker 2: story that I tell at my lectures is I went 549 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:12,719 Speaker 2: to a client's house one time because they said they 550 00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:18,560 Speaker 2: were having some poltergeist problems. And I walked in and 551 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:20,560 Speaker 2: I was there for maybe an hour, and while I 552 00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:24,080 Speaker 2: was there, there were some juice glasses that were thrown 553 00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:26,160 Speaker 2: and a screen door was kicked out, and I was 554 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:29,000 Speaker 2: scratched and my hair was pulled, and I told them 555 00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:32,840 Speaker 2: I wasn't going to take the case because their children 556 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:37,280 Speaker 2: were terrible, and their children were the ones throwing glasses 557 00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:39,400 Speaker 2: and breaking out screen doors and attacking me. 558 00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:42,480 Speaker 3: And the reason I tell that story, if I. 559 00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:44,800 Speaker 2: Wouldn't have known that there were children in the house, 560 00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:47,560 Speaker 2: I would have thought that there were demons in the house. 561 00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:53,200 Speaker 2: But those children weren't even bad or mean. Those children 562 00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:55,560 Speaker 2: were trying to get someone to pay attention to them, 563 00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:59,200 Speaker 2: and they were doing whatever, by whatever means necessary to 564 00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:01,400 Speaker 2: get someone to notice them. And so I think when 565 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:04,240 Speaker 2: people go into a location and they're scratched or something breaks, 566 00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:07,400 Speaker 2: or they hear a weird sound. Because of movies and 567 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:10,200 Speaker 2: television and the way they're brought up. They immediately scream 568 00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:14,680 Speaker 2: demon or they say it's evil without really thinking through 569 00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:19,080 Speaker 2: the I mean, we're fine sitting here right now talking 570 00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:21,240 Speaker 2: because we can get up and leave whenever we want. 571 00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:23,960 Speaker 2: But imagine how frustrated or sad or angry you would 572 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:26,840 Speaker 2: be if you had to be sitting where you're sitting 573 00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:30,200 Speaker 2: right now for ten years by yourself, or fifteen or 574 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:31,400 Speaker 2: fifty or one hundred. 575 00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:34,360 Speaker 3: You might get frustrated. And it doesn't mean that you've 576 00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:36,840 Speaker 3: become evil or you're a demon. It just means that 577 00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:39,000 Speaker 3: you're lonely and you would like some connection. 578 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:43,400 Speaker 1: Well, I mean with having to quarantine. I feel like 579 00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:45,960 Speaker 1: that's actually pretty relatable after just one year. I can 580 00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:50,640 Speaker 1: only imagine decades and decades of this. I would be, yeah, 581 00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:53,080 Speaker 1: an evil bitch, and people would think that I'm a 582 00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:56,360 Speaker 1: demon for sure. And I think that, you know, I 583 00:31:56,440 --> 00:32:00,360 Speaker 1: like that you said that about people's perceptions because I 584 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:05,640 Speaker 1: think you know, punk rock and coughs and you know, 585 00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:11,040 Speaker 1: drag queens and all these counterculture people that I've always 586 00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:13,120 Speaker 1: been around. It's like there are always going to be 587 00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:16,600 Speaker 1: people that view that as being you know, weird in 588 00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:19,400 Speaker 1: a bad way, or evil or whatever, and it's like, 589 00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:21,640 Speaker 1: those are some of the best people I've ever met, 590 00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:24,880 Speaker 1: you know, like it's they're actually really good people. It's 591 00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:29,200 Speaker 1: just people's perceptions of what they associate with being bad. 592 00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:32,880 Speaker 1: I think a lot of times it's a lack of understanding. 593 00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:37,120 Speaker 1: People say I don't understand that, so it means it's bad, 594 00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:38,800 Speaker 1: is basically what it is. 595 00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:42,840 Speaker 2: I start, you know, my website is Weird Lectures, and 596 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:47,040 Speaker 2: I call myself a weirdo, and my old podcast is 597 00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:48,959 Speaker 2: called Realm of the Weird and the reason they use 598 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:51,440 Speaker 2: weird so much, and I have a little story about 599 00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:53,680 Speaker 2: this on my website. The first time that someone called 600 00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:55,840 Speaker 2: me a weirdo was in high school, and it was 601 00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:57,600 Speaker 2: while they were beating me up. I got beat up 602 00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:01,640 Speaker 2: a lot in high school, and I thought to myself 603 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:05,440 Speaker 2: in that moment, a weirdo must be a person who 604 00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:08,480 Speaker 2: gets beaten up, not a person who beats people up. 605 00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:11,400 Speaker 2: I'm okay with being a person who doesn't beat other 606 00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:14,200 Speaker 2: people up. And then as I got older and started 607 00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:17,920 Speaker 2: to become really fascinated with words and language, I looked 608 00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:22,440 Speaker 2: up the word weirdo and where that stems from, and 609 00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:27,880 Speaker 2: weird comes from a fourteenth century word wyrd, and it 610 00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:31,000 Speaker 2: was a word that was thrown at people who lived 611 00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:33,680 Speaker 2: on the outskirts of villages and towns, and people who 612 00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:36,320 Speaker 2: didn't submit their wills to the kings and queens and 613 00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:41,280 Speaker 2: land barons and baronesses. It literally means a weirdo is 614 00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:45,200 Speaker 2: a person who manifests their own destiny. And so when 615 00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:47,360 Speaker 2: I call someone a weirdo, I'm giving them the greatest 616 00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:50,360 Speaker 2: compliment that I have in my arsenal. I'm saying that 617 00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:52,920 Speaker 2: you are the determiner of your life, and you are 618 00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:55,280 Speaker 2: the manifestor of your own destiny. 619 00:33:55,600 --> 00:34:03,440 Speaker 1: Yeah. I love that. Oh that's good. Good, Yeah, thanks 620 00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:07,520 Speaker 1: for that. I like that a lot. I also always 621 00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:11,640 Speaker 1: feel like the opposite of weird is boring. That's just 622 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:15,040 Speaker 1: my own definition is it's a good thing. 623 00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:16,600 Speaker 2: I don't know why people want to live in a 624 00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:20,440 Speaker 2: world that doesn't have bigfoot and elves and ghosts and UFOs. 625 00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:21,840 Speaker 3: Like what a boring world? 626 00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:28,160 Speaker 1: Right? Well, okay, can we talk about UFOs? So UFOs 627 00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:34,759 Speaker 1: are something that I don't I like, don't I'm fascinated by. 628 00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:38,560 Speaker 1: I haven't talked a ton about on this podcast, mainly 629 00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:41,880 Speaker 1: because I usually have on you know, Hollywood types and 630 00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:44,000 Speaker 1: they tell their stories and they have a couple of 631 00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:49,160 Speaker 1: ghost stories. Very rarely we've had possible alien type stories, 632 00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:51,440 Speaker 1: but so it hasn't really come up. And then I've 633 00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:53,960 Speaker 1: been trying to incorporate it a little bit more. But 634 00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:58,120 Speaker 1: then I'm also I get nervous because I feel like 635 00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:03,240 Speaker 1: these days there's conspiracy theories that like have really gotten 636 00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:07,080 Speaker 1: out of hand and they've gotten kind of scary, and well, yeah, 637 00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:09,960 Speaker 1: they've gotten real scary and dangerous, and I'm always like 638 00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:13,400 Speaker 1: afraid that when I'm talking about theories that are involving 639 00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:17,600 Speaker 1: the government and all these large, large ideas, that I'm 640 00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:19,560 Speaker 1: going to be getting the wrong information or I'm not 641 00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:24,279 Speaker 1: going to actually know what I'm talking about. So how 642 00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:26,520 Speaker 1: do I how do I do that? How do I 643 00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:30,920 Speaker 1: know about this stuff without being you know, where do 644 00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:33,240 Speaker 1: you get the accurate information these days? 645 00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:35,719 Speaker 2: I mean the first thing. The other thing is, you know, 646 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:41,799 Speaker 2: I started professionally. My mentor in research was a man 647 00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:45,399 Speaker 2: named Craig Chaconi, who was a teacher a historian who 648 00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:48,560 Speaker 2: studied political assassinations of the nineteen sixties and seventies. So 649 00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:51,440 Speaker 2: my first lectures back in the late eighties early nineties 650 00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:54,640 Speaker 2: were all conspiratorial lectures, and so to watch what's happened 651 00:35:54,680 --> 00:36:00,160 Speaker 2: now is an outrage to my mental processes because conspiracy 652 00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:04,560 Speaker 2: theories were always meant as a way to do mental gymnastics, 653 00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:07,880 Speaker 2: to strengthen your critical thinking skills. It was a way 654 00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:12,000 Speaker 2: to think about history and challenge the ideas of history 655 00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:17,400 Speaker 2: while figuring out what the kind of combined history actually 656 00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:20,440 Speaker 2: was and not what it has become, which is just 657 00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:25,239 Speaker 2: kind of high insanity when it comes to researching anything. 658 00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:29,000 Speaker 2: I mean, you have to find as many various sources 659 00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:31,600 Speaker 2: as you can. You pick and choose what you like 660 00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:33,960 Speaker 2: and what suits you and what works for you, and 661 00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:38,840 Speaker 2: then you challenge that belief with other people and hopefully 662 00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:43,280 Speaker 2: with a larger group you construct better ideas. That doesn't 663 00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:46,080 Speaker 2: seem to be happening now in the conspiratorial world. But 664 00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:48,000 Speaker 2: the good thing about UFO is is that it doesn't 665 00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:51,000 Speaker 2: have to be conspiratorial. There are a lot of people 666 00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:54,000 Speaker 2: who want government disclosure and the Air Force needs to 667 00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:57,080 Speaker 2: tell us, and there are secret groups who know about UFOs, 668 00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:01,279 Speaker 2: and it doesn't have to be that way. Likes traditionally, 669 00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:05,960 Speaker 2: historically throughout the ages have presented themselves to everyday normal 670 00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:09,640 Speaker 2: human beings who tell their stories, and we have hundreds 671 00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:13,879 Speaker 2: of thousands of those stories from credible people who talk 672 00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:18,120 Speaker 2: about their interactions with what seem to be extraterrestrials and UFOs, 673 00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:20,120 Speaker 2: And so you don't even need to get the government 674 00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:22,200 Speaker 2: involved in it. I don't know why the people would 675 00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:26,080 Speaker 2: want the government to tell them anything anyway, Like, I'd 676 00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:28,840 Speaker 2: much rather talk to a person who's seen a UFO 677 00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:33,080 Speaker 2: than a government group who's getting millions of tax dollars 678 00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:34,880 Speaker 2: to not tell me about UFOs. 679 00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:39,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I've seen these articles that because of 680 00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:42,799 Speaker 1: the COVID Relief Bill, there's supposed to be things coming out. 681 00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:44,440 Speaker 1: I mean, is that legit? 682 00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:55,719 Speaker 2: They're supposed to release a committee document that's investigating Unidentified 683 00:37:55,800 --> 00:38:00,520 Speaker 2: Aerial Phenomena UAP, which is the new UFO designation. But 684 00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:03,200 Speaker 2: the thing is is, again, like all of this might 685 00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:05,319 Speaker 2: seem really new to people who don't know that much 686 00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:09,000 Speaker 2: about UFOs, but you know Project blue Book, which was 687 00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:12,160 Speaker 2: a government UFO group that was in the nineteen sixties, 688 00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:14,640 Speaker 2: and that was born out of Project Grudge, which was 689 00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:17,880 Speaker 2: based out of Project Saucer, which is based out of 690 00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:22,000 Speaker 2: you know, there have always been government projects investigating this 691 00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:25,359 Speaker 2: stuff like the government investigates everything they you know, from 692 00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:29,480 Speaker 2: the mk ultra experiments, testing LSD on people to doing 693 00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:33,279 Speaker 2: remote viewing. The government is interested in weird stuff too, 694 00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:36,120 Speaker 2: because it's filled with people, and people are interested in 695 00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:40,320 Speaker 2: weird stuff. So I don't think that it's anything groundbreaking. 696 00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:44,279 Speaker 2: It's nothing that we haven't not seen before. They always 697 00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:46,840 Speaker 2: every few years form a group that's going to study 698 00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:49,279 Speaker 2: UFOs and then they release a report and then it's 699 00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:51,399 Speaker 2: back on us to figure it out. 700 00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:54,520 Speaker 1: Did you going back to Unsolved Mysteries, what did you 701 00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:59,360 Speaker 1: think of that UFO one from the recent Netflix Unsolved Mysteries? 702 00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:00,880 Speaker 1: Did you know that's story before? 703 00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:03,640 Speaker 3: I did know that story. I thought that that story 704 00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:04,759 Speaker 3: was handled pretty well. 705 00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:10,920 Speaker 2: I really wish I know that people are interested in 706 00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:14,120 Speaker 2: kind of newer stories. I'm interested in like the old 707 00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:18,080 Speaker 2: UFO stories because they are so much more fun. Like 708 00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:21,600 Speaker 2: when someone you know lands in they're from Venus and 709 00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:25,000 Speaker 2: they take someone to Mars and they eat dinner with 710 00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:27,799 Speaker 2: the King of Mars and they have giant dogs that 711 00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:29,080 Speaker 2: are like thirty feet tall. 712 00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:30,360 Speaker 3: That's a actual story. 713 00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:30,880 Speaker 1: Really. 714 00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:31,799 Speaker 3: Oh yeah. 715 00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:35,399 Speaker 2: Buck Nelson who was a farmer in Missouri, he got 716 00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:38,399 Speaker 2: taken on a trip to Venus Mars in the moon 717 00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:41,600 Speaker 2: and he saw giant dogs and eight with the King 718 00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:45,080 Speaker 2: of Mars, and they're just these kind of lovely stories 719 00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:51,040 Speaker 2: that always end with the message of extraterrestrials being be 720 00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:53,319 Speaker 2: nice to your planet and be nice to your other 721 00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:56,879 Speaker 2: each other. That's like the fifties and sixties, that's all 722 00:39:56,920 --> 00:39:59,440 Speaker 2: the aliens told people was be nice to each other 723 00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:02,719 Speaker 2: and be nice to to the planet. And something happened 724 00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:06,120 Speaker 2: in the seventies, eighties, and nineties where it became now 725 00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:11,080 Speaker 2: it's little gray, black eyed humanoids that abduct people in 726 00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:12,919 Speaker 2: their room and do experiments on them. 727 00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:14,080 Speaker 3: So something changed. 728 00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:20,160 Speaker 1: Wow. Okay, So have you seen one at any point 729 00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:23,680 Speaker 1: or have you seen anything that's led you to believe 730 00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:26,600 Speaker 1: that could be a UFO. 731 00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:31,920 Speaker 2: I've seen I've had three or four sightings of things 732 00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:34,560 Speaker 2: that did not seem to fly like anything that I 733 00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:38,759 Speaker 2: would recognize. And then the last time, which I think 734 00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:41,920 Speaker 2: was three years ago or four years ago, there's an 735 00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:46,520 Speaker 2: experiment that people can do. So if your listeners want experiment, 736 00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:50,759 Speaker 2: if you think you're seeing a UFO, stare at it 737 00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:55,439 Speaker 2: and think really hard in your mind, I. 738 00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:57,120 Speaker 3: Can see you, can you see me? 739 00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:01,280 Speaker 2: And then wait, for it to flow over your head, 740 00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:04,400 Speaker 2: which is what I did when the last time I 741 00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:07,319 Speaker 2: saw these three objects flying around and they were not 742 00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:10,200 Speaker 2: flying like airplanes. I was actually with someone else, my 743 00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:13,439 Speaker 2: friend Mike, and I told him, I said, we're gonna 744 00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:15,759 Speaker 2: look at those UFOs and we're gonna tell him we 745 00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:17,799 Speaker 2: can see him. And he was like whatever. And as 746 00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:20,800 Speaker 2: soon as we started doing that, they moved from really 747 00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:23,879 Speaker 2: far off they turned toward us and flew directly over 748 00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:24,600 Speaker 2: our heads. 749 00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:27,120 Speaker 1: Wait, this is in Michigan. 750 00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:28,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, in the Upper Peninsula. 751 00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:31,359 Speaker 1: Does that kind of a thing work with ghosts too? 752 00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:35,880 Speaker 1: Like I can see you like? Can you from your experience? 753 00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:37,480 Speaker 1: Do you think that that kind of a thing, You 754 00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:39,520 Speaker 1: can talk to a ghost in that way if you 755 00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:43,719 Speaker 1: see like an apparition or you feel a presence, Is 756 00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:45,239 Speaker 1: that effective? Do you think? 757 00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:46,239 Speaker 3: I do. 758 00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:50,640 Speaker 2: I think it's far more probably effective than speaking out loud. 759 00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:53,759 Speaker 2: I have a little chapter. I wrote a book last 760 00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:56,960 Speaker 2: year called Theoretical Weirdo, and one of the chapters is 761 00:41:57,040 --> 00:42:02,480 Speaker 2: called the Discernible Brain. And I think that ghosts don't 762 00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:05,799 Speaker 2: have physical ears, and so when I talk, I'm just 763 00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:09,239 Speaker 2: making waves through the air vibrations. And the reason you 764 00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:11,200 Speaker 2: can hear me is because you have an ear and 765 00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:14,040 Speaker 2: so your brain is translating those waves into sounds. But 766 00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:16,120 Speaker 2: a ghost doesn't have a physical ear. So then how 767 00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:18,839 Speaker 2: is it hearing my voice? I don't think it is. 768 00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:21,800 Speaker 2: I think it's hearing the intention of my words behind 769 00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:29,360 Speaker 2: my voice. And historically cross culturally around the world. Globally, 770 00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:34,800 Speaker 2: the most used form of quote unquote spirit communication is prayer. 771 00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:38,040 Speaker 2: People close their eyes and they speak inside of their 772 00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:41,480 Speaker 2: mind and they know that their thoughts are being discerned, 773 00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:43,480 Speaker 2: and so I do think it works with what we 774 00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:44,240 Speaker 2: call ghosts. 775 00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:53,920 Speaker 1: Okay, well, let me just ask you a couple more questions. 776 00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:56,600 Speaker 1: You've been so generous with your time. I so appreciate it. You, 777 00:42:57,040 --> 00:43:03,640 Speaker 1: as expected, are blowing my mind. So basically, I know 778 00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:07,520 Speaker 1: this is like kind of a basic question. But do 779 00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:11,720 Speaker 1: you think that, say we know all the answers goes 780 00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:13,960 Speaker 1: in UFO. Do you think that that's going to happen? 781 00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:15,960 Speaker 1: And if it does, are we all out of business? 782 00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:18,480 Speaker 3: Oh? 783 00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:25,879 Speaker 2: I think that I really do think that we're not 784 00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:30,440 Speaker 2: supposed to know. I think that knowing what happens after life, 785 00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:34,640 Speaker 2: what happens to us after we die, I think that 786 00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:39,560 Speaker 2: that makes life less beautiful. I think that really takes 787 00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:46,400 Speaker 2: away from this experience. And I wrote somewhere, Once you know, Once, 788 00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:50,160 Speaker 2: I wrote, once all of the stars have been cataloged 789 00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:53,319 Speaker 2: and classified. Once the experience of life after death has 790 00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:57,160 Speaker 2: been written down in endless books and stored on bookshelves. 791 00:43:57,560 --> 00:44:01,440 Speaker 2: Once we know how everything works, why it works, and 792 00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:05,480 Speaker 2: how it's going to work, then humanity will exist forever, 793 00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:12,120 Speaker 2: yawning like like the point of one of the points. 794 00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:14,520 Speaker 2: At least for me, the idea that I have of 795 00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:20,160 Speaker 2: being human is a quest to understand things. And I 796 00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:22,279 Speaker 2: tell people all the time. If there's no such thing 797 00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:24,279 Speaker 2: as ghosts, and there's no such thing as bigfoot, and 798 00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:26,839 Speaker 2: there's no such thing as UFOs, if those things are 799 00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:30,600 Speaker 2: only a mechanism for us to talk to each other 800 00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:34,440 Speaker 2: about our deep inner thoughts, then it's still vastly important. 801 00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:41,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, where do you see I mean, particularly like ghost hunting. 802 00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:45,640 Speaker 1: I mean it's obviously gotten real big on television, and 803 00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:48,640 Speaker 1: you know, where do you see it going? Do you 804 00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:51,920 Speaker 1: see anything anything new happening? Or are we heading in 805 00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:55,040 Speaker 1: a direction of being able to figure anything else out? 806 00:44:55,960 --> 00:45:01,319 Speaker 2: I think that we're moving into a realm of which 807 00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:03,040 Speaker 2: I think is good. I think we're moving into a 808 00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:06,360 Speaker 2: more philosophical realm. I think that we're moving away from 809 00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:09,880 Speaker 2: you die and become a translucent version of yourself. Like, 810 00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:12,600 Speaker 2: I think that that idea is going away, and we're 811 00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:16,840 Speaker 2: starting to recognize that we don't understand the fundamental nature 812 00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:17,880 Speaker 2: of being human. 813 00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:19,880 Speaker 3: We don't understand how our consciousness works. 814 00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:23,600 Speaker 2: We don't really understand every time we think we've solved 815 00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:26,239 Speaker 2: the riddle of the universe, the universe play is when 816 00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:28,919 Speaker 2: you try and play with it, and so it gives 817 00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:31,239 Speaker 2: you a smaller or a bigger thing to look at, 818 00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:34,160 Speaker 2: It gives you dark matter, or it gives you vibrating 819 00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:39,280 Speaker 2: strings that are beyond the quantum realm. And I really 820 00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:42,200 Speaker 2: think that where we need to be, whether it be 821 00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:45,799 Speaker 2: with UFO's Ghosts, Bigfoot, whatever, I think we do need 822 00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:48,520 Speaker 2: to be more philosophical, and so I think that's where 823 00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:51,520 Speaker 2: we're headed. But you won't see it in popular media. 824 00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:53,399 Speaker 2: I mean, you're not going to see a television show 825 00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:57,160 Speaker 2: of six people sitting around a table talking about the 826 00:45:57,280 --> 00:46:00,000 Speaker 2: nature of life and death and Bigfoot place in it. 827 00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:03,320 Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that even when I started this podcast 828 00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:08,840 Speaker 1: two years ago, I was still coming from that mindset 829 00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:12,040 Speaker 1: that you kind of get from TV and movies and 830 00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:16,360 Speaker 1: spooky and I'm happy to have talked to more and 831 00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:21,120 Speaker 1: more people and just to expand on ideas. And I 832 00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:24,399 Speaker 1: feel that what you're talking about, that shift that has 833 00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:27,239 Speaker 1: been happening. I have felt as well with the way 834 00:46:27,239 --> 00:46:30,240 Speaker 1: that we're approaching this stuff and the conversations we're having 835 00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:34,120 Speaker 1: and and and heading away from the direction of this 836 00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:37,600 Speaker 1: is how things are and it's scary, and that's that. Like, 837 00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:42,440 Speaker 1: I really like to hear different ideas and experiences and 838 00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:46,560 Speaker 1: I want I'm excited to see where that leads us. 839 00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:50,560 Speaker 2: I mean, ten years ago, you and I couldn't have 840 00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:55,080 Speaker 2: done this type of conversation, Like it just wouldn't have 841 00:46:55,120 --> 00:47:00,640 Speaker 2: been listenable to anyone because people only wanted to hear stories. 842 00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:02,960 Speaker 2: And there is something too that I love telling ghost stories. 843 00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:05,240 Speaker 2: I have a lot of good ghost stories, and that's fine, 844 00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:09,880 Speaker 2: but I feel like what people need to hear is 845 00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:12,960 Speaker 2: that there are other people thinking more deeply about it 846 00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:15,440 Speaker 2: than just here's a spooky thing that happened to me 847 00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:15,959 Speaker 2: one time. 848 00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:19,640 Speaker 1: Well okay, but also I still have a little bit 849 00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:22,520 Speaker 1: of that old mentality in me. And you just said 850 00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:28,240 Speaker 1: ghost stories, can we just hear like one more like real, unexplainable, 851 00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:31,440 Speaker 1: what the fuck kind of a story that you've experienced? 852 00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:36,400 Speaker 2: Sure, So I had a husband and a wife who 853 00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:40,520 Speaker 2: had bought a house. They said that there was something 854 00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:44,160 Speaker 2: wrong with one of the upstairs bedrooms. They thought that 855 00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:47,040 Speaker 2: it was haunted. So they called me. I did what 856 00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:50,879 Speaker 2: I do. I went there, and I couldn't find any 857 00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:53,319 Speaker 2: reason that that room should feel weird. It didn't feel 858 00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:56,160 Speaker 2: weird to me, but they said that they did feel 859 00:47:56,200 --> 00:47:59,880 Speaker 2: this strangeness in that room, a heaviness and darkness. So 860 00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:03,000 Speaker 2: I started contacting all of the former owners of the house, 861 00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:07,719 Speaker 2: and eventually I had got to a woman who had 862 00:48:07,719 --> 00:48:10,640 Speaker 2: lived in the house just previous to them buying it, 863 00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:14,080 Speaker 2: who wouldn't return my calls. And so I thought, well, 864 00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:17,080 Speaker 2: either she doesn't want to talk about ghosts, or she's 865 00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:20,160 Speaker 2: the reason, like she knows what's what went on in 866 00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:20,600 Speaker 2: that room? 867 00:48:20,719 --> 00:48:24,120 Speaker 1: Were you leaving messages like I'm looking for ghost answers or. 868 00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:26,680 Speaker 3: I approach it a lot more serious. 869 00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:30,719 Speaker 1: Hey, I want ghost answers, lady. 870 00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:33,360 Speaker 3: But eventually what happened. 871 00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:36,040 Speaker 2: She did call me and she said, you know, I 872 00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:37,759 Speaker 2: just I grew up in that house and I have 873 00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:41,359 Speaker 2: a lot of bad experiences with that house and I 874 00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:45,520 Speaker 2: just don't like to talk about it. And she related 875 00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:49,560 Speaker 2: to me a story about when she was little, her 876 00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:51,680 Speaker 2: mother and father would lock her in the closet of 877 00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:54,520 Speaker 2: her bedroom for you know, hours on end, six to 878 00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:57,120 Speaker 2: eight hours, sometimes overnight, damn. 879 00:48:57,000 --> 00:48:58,759 Speaker 3: And she would just sit in that closet and cry. 880 00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:00,359 Speaker 3: And I confirm her. 881 00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:02,200 Speaker 2: I said, well, it's not that room because the room 882 00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:04,720 Speaker 2: I'm talking about is upstairs and doesn't have a closet, 883 00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:07,439 Speaker 2: so it's not that room. And that made her feel 884 00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:10,440 Speaker 2: a little bit better. But that got me to thinking. 885 00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:13,240 Speaker 2: So I went to the city hall and I pulled 886 00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:18,239 Speaker 2: the original construction plans on the house, and I contacted 887 00:49:18,239 --> 00:49:19,880 Speaker 2: the husband and the wife. I went back to the 888 00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:25,719 Speaker 2: house and we tore down in that room one of 889 00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:29,239 Speaker 2: the dry wall walls that was up because someone had 890 00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:33,240 Speaker 2: dry walled over a closet, and we found the closet 891 00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:36,840 Speaker 2: behind the dry wall. It was the closet that the 892 00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:40,239 Speaker 2: girl had been locked in when she was little. And 893 00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:43,640 Speaker 2: when I went home that night, there was a message 894 00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:47,200 Speaker 2: on my answering machine from her and it basically said listen. 895 00:49:47,239 --> 00:49:48,799 Speaker 2: I don't know if it was because I talked about 896 00:49:48,840 --> 00:49:50,840 Speaker 2: it for the first time in years or what happened. 897 00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:53,880 Speaker 2: But this afternoon I felt like I had been released 898 00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:57,879 Speaker 2: from that house. So thank you for whatever you did 899 00:49:57,880 --> 00:50:00,600 Speaker 2: and just talking to me about it. The husband and 900 00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:03,600 Speaker 2: wife said that room had felt fine ever since. So 901 00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:05,960 Speaker 2: when we were talking earlier about what a ghost is, 902 00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:10,279 Speaker 2: this woman was haunting her house, her childhood home, but 903 00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:12,680 Speaker 2: even though she was alive, she had left something in 904 00:50:12,680 --> 00:50:16,640 Speaker 2: that closet and we let it out and resolve that issue. 905 00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:18,879 Speaker 3: Weird. 906 00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:22,839 Speaker 1: Oh that's a good one. Okay, Well, can you tell 907 00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:26,319 Speaker 1: people where to find you? And all the stuff you 908 00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:27,240 Speaker 1: got going on. 909 00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:30,600 Speaker 3: My website is weird Lectures. 910 00:50:30,719 --> 00:50:33,080 Speaker 2: And then I've tried to make all my social media 911 00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:37,080 Speaker 2: very easy, so everything like Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, all that 912 00:50:37,200 --> 00:50:40,840 Speaker 2: is just John John E L Tenny t E N 913 00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:42,879 Speaker 2: N E y or I tell people all the time 914 00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:45,920 Speaker 2: just go on Google, type my last name Tenny and 915 00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:48,720 Speaker 2: weirdo after it, and then follow it wherever it leads. 916 00:50:49,560 --> 00:50:53,200 Speaker 1: Well, I endorse your Twitter. I think you're really funny 917 00:50:53,239 --> 00:50:55,440 Speaker 1: on Twitter, and I love the stuff that you share. 918 00:50:57,080 --> 00:51:01,719 Speaker 1: You also on your website talk about you do you 919 00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:05,400 Speaker 1: do paranormal investigations and people can contact you. Can you 920 00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:08,319 Speaker 1: just also tell us what that looks like for you 921 00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:10,000 Speaker 1: how that process goes. 922 00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:14,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's somewhat in depth. People contact me, I 923 00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:16,759 Speaker 2: have them write down their experience and email it to 924 00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:21,080 Speaker 2: me or mail it to me. I go over the 925 00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:23,200 Speaker 2: little facts that they'll have given me, and then we 926 00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:26,040 Speaker 2: meet in a safe location, maybe a couple weeks later, 927 00:51:26,160 --> 00:51:28,440 Speaker 2: go back over the story. I'll determine if I need 928 00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:32,800 Speaker 2: to do more investigations, and then if it does warrant 929 00:51:32,880 --> 00:51:38,040 Speaker 2: a deeper investigation, I'll start pulling property records and contacting 930 00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:41,719 Speaker 2: former homeowners, and I'll even have clients. If I take 931 00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:43,440 Speaker 2: someone out as a client, I'm going to make them 932 00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:47,680 Speaker 2: go and see a therapist, I'm going to ask for 933 00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:51,440 Speaker 2: permission to talk to their doctors and get a really 934 00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:55,600 Speaker 2: full read on the family, and if it warrants investigation 935 00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:58,120 Speaker 2: after that. So now we're probably by this time two 936 00:51:58,239 --> 00:52:01,560 Speaker 2: or three months or maybe even longer in then I'll 937 00:52:01,560 --> 00:52:04,480 Speaker 2: start investigating the house physically, but there's a lot of 938 00:52:04,680 --> 00:52:06,759 Speaker 2: groundwork to do before I even walk in. 939 00:52:07,600 --> 00:52:10,120 Speaker 1: Wow, have you been in situations where they're like, no, 940 00:52:10,239 --> 00:52:11,560 Speaker 1: we need you now. 941 00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:19,960 Speaker 2: I have, And those don't work out very well. And 942 00:52:20,160 --> 00:52:22,279 Speaker 2: a lot of the times it, I mean, you don't 943 00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:25,160 Speaker 2: really know what you're walking into. Sometimes I was working 944 00:52:25,200 --> 00:52:29,839 Speaker 2: on a television show really quickly, and the whole crew 945 00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:31,880 Speaker 2: was there. We had flown to the location, got to 946 00:52:31,880 --> 00:52:36,520 Speaker 2: the location, and I had figured that the network had 947 00:52:36,520 --> 00:52:39,520 Speaker 2: been doing you know, history and study of the location 948 00:52:39,640 --> 00:52:41,759 Speaker 2: and the family and stuff, and they obviously had not. 949 00:52:42,280 --> 00:52:47,640 Speaker 2: I walked into the house, and within like minutes, I 950 00:52:47,719 --> 00:52:52,880 Speaker 2: knew that there were massive non paranormal problems in the family, 951 00:52:52,960 --> 00:52:55,600 Speaker 2: that there were addiction issues and abuse issues, Like as 952 00:52:55,600 --> 00:52:57,240 Speaker 2: soon as I walked in the house, you could tell. 953 00:52:57,760 --> 00:52:59,719 Speaker 2: And I went outside and I told the producer, like, 954 00:52:59,840 --> 00:53:02,040 Speaker 2: we don't need to be here. They don't need a 955 00:53:02,080 --> 00:53:04,920 Speaker 2: paranormal team investigating their house. They need therapy and they 956 00:53:04,960 --> 00:53:08,440 Speaker 2: need to talk to doctors and you know whoever they 957 00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:12,640 Speaker 2: need to talk to. And the network said, no, you're 958 00:53:12,680 --> 00:53:15,040 Speaker 2: going to go in there and investigate that for a ghost. 959 00:53:15,160 --> 00:53:17,759 Speaker 2: And I walked off the set and that show never 960 00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:18,239 Speaker 2: got made. 961 00:53:19,040 --> 00:53:22,680 Speaker 1: Damn you would think that they would. Yeah, I feel 962 00:53:22,680 --> 00:53:25,680 Speaker 1: like that work needs to be done for sure. Yes, 963 00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:28,640 Speaker 1: is that when you decided to do that kind of 964 00:53:28,680 --> 00:53:31,359 Speaker 1: process or were you already doing that kind of a thing. 965 00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:34,239 Speaker 2: I was already doing that kind of thing. You know 966 00:53:34,280 --> 00:53:36,479 Speaker 2: there were ten years when I first started where people 967 00:53:36,480 --> 00:53:38,120 Speaker 2: would call it me and I just run out to 968 00:53:38,160 --> 00:53:41,600 Speaker 2: the house or the location and start investigating. But you 969 00:53:41,719 --> 00:53:45,160 Speaker 2: learn very quickly that people can be scarier than ghosts. 970 00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:55,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely. Oh my god, so much to think about. 971 00:53:56,520 --> 00:54:01,719 Speaker 1: Thank you to John. Please go check out everything that 972 00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:07,520 Speaker 1: John does. I am a stun and go to Patreon 973 00:54:07,560 --> 00:54:10,400 Speaker 1: dot com slash Roz dress Flees to hear me talking 974 00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:17,759 Speaker 1: to John Moore about cryptid creatures in Michigan. Guys, this 975 00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:22,200 Speaker 1: is you know, we're still in the pandemic. We're still 976 00:54:22,239 --> 00:54:26,560 Speaker 1: doing it, but I am committed to continuing to give 977 00:54:26,600 --> 00:54:29,799 Speaker 1: you some fun ghosty contents, so make sure you check 978 00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:33,359 Speaker 1: me out on stereo. Stereo dot com. Slash Roz Dress 979 00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:37,040 Speaker 1: Fales join the Facebook group Ghosted by Roz dress Fales. 980 00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:39,239 Speaker 1: You know what I'd love, I would love it so 981 00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:41,920 Speaker 1: much if you could tell your friends about the show. 982 00:54:42,320 --> 00:54:44,640 Speaker 1: I love when you post on an Insta story or 983 00:54:44,719 --> 00:54:47,640 Speaker 1: just you know, word of mouth. That's always good. And 984 00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:50,000 Speaker 1: another thing that's really good for the show is five 985 00:54:50,080 --> 00:54:55,680 Speaker 1: stars on Apple Podcasts and leave a nice review, or 986 00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:58,480 Speaker 1: if you leave five stars, leave a ghost story. Maybe 987 00:54:58,520 --> 00:55:01,000 Speaker 1: I'll read it on the show. At some point, I 988 00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:03,640 Speaker 1: would love to do some more listener episodes, so send 989 00:55:03,640 --> 00:55:07,480 Speaker 1: those over to ghosted by Roz at gmail dot com 990 00:55:07,480 --> 00:55:12,920 Speaker 1: with the subject line listener episode and I don't know. 991 00:55:12,960 --> 00:55:15,520 Speaker 1: I'm sure there's other places you can find me Instagram, 992 00:55:15,600 --> 00:55:20,680 Speaker 1: Rose Dress, well as all the places I love you, all, 993 00:55:21,640 --> 00:55:24,160 Speaker 1: both living and dead. But if I didn't ask you 994 00:55:24,239 --> 00:55:41,319 Speaker 1: to haunt me, don't haunt me. Came Back Star, a 995 00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:42,320 Speaker 1: podcast network