WEBVTT - Thinking Sideways: Campden Wonder 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:02.440 This episode of Thinking Sideways is not brought to you 0:00:02.480 --> 0:00:05.640 by short term goals for long term planning. Instead, it's 0:00:05.640 --> 0:00:08.039 brought to you by Credit Karma. Once last time you 0:00:08.119 --> 0:00:10.840 checked your credit score. If you're like me, it's been forever. 0:00:11.480 --> 0:00:13.880 You may not know that your credit score might change 0:00:13.880 --> 0:00:15.920 more often than you think, and you should know where 0:00:15.960 --> 0:00:18.640 you are now and not a year ago. Credit Carma 0:00:18.640 --> 0:00:20.720 is here to help. Credit Karma is always free and 0:00:20.720 --> 0:00:23.320 there's no catch, no credit card needed. Go to credit 0:00:23.360 --> 0:00:26.000 carma dot com or download the credit Carma app now 0:00:32.840 --> 0:00:49.000 think you Yeah, well, hi there, Welcome to another episode 0:00:49.040 --> 0:00:53.000 of Thinking Sideways. I am your host, Joe, joined as 0:00:53.040 --> 0:00:58.440 always by Steve and by Devine, and together we are 0:00:58.520 --> 0:01:05.559 the terrific trio tripid. Yeah yeah yeah, Star star walls. 0:01:09.720 --> 0:01:11.440 Oh it's what they say in the old time heat 0:01:11.520 --> 0:01:15.839 like radio things and it's star walled man servant our gyle. 0:01:17.120 --> 0:01:20.240 But I can't. I can't say it's fine, doesn't matter, Okay, 0:01:20.480 --> 0:01:23.399 going on, a good star, Moving on, Kevin, what's this 0:01:23.440 --> 0:01:29.000 word here? So I can't that's right, sorry, Joe, continue on. Yeah, 0:01:29.080 --> 0:01:32.680 let's do this. So for this week, we decided to 0:01:32.720 --> 0:01:35.640 reach way back in time, clear back to the seventeenth 0:01:35.680 --> 0:01:38.160 century as a matter of fact. For our mystery, it 0:01:38.240 --> 0:01:41.600 begins on the six of August in the year sixteen 0:01:41.760 --> 0:01:45.680 sixty when William Harrison UH set off on foot from 0:01:45.680 --> 0:01:48.520 the village of Campden Chipping Campton. I guess, I said, 0:01:48.520 --> 0:01:50.720 I think that's Camden. What do you guys think? I 0:01:50.760 --> 0:01:54.120 think it's camp as Campden spelled Campton. But I'm sure 0:01:54.120 --> 0:01:57.120 it's once again our British listeners trying to trip us 0:01:57.200 --> 0:02:01.560 up with yet another tricky spelling force. Now, so he 0:02:01.640 --> 0:02:05.040 leaves his village towards the village of charing Worth or 0:02:05.080 --> 0:02:08.400 suit charing Worth, about two miles away, and he's going 0:02:08.480 --> 0:02:10.680 to collect rent money that's owed to his employer, who 0:02:10.720 --> 0:02:13.960 was the Viscountess Camden. And so so she, being the 0:02:14.000 --> 0:02:18.560 you know, rich titled nobles, owns all the land. It's 0:02:18.560 --> 0:02:20.920 everyone's got to pay her rent. And so he's off 0:02:20.960 --> 0:02:23.880 to collect some rents. William Harrison was the steward Diverse 0:02:23.919 --> 0:02:28.919 states uh in which is Chipping Campton, Cloucester, Gloucestershire, which 0:02:29.000 --> 0:02:33.000 is a small town in the middle of England somewhere okay, Uh, 0:02:33.280 --> 0:02:37.720 it's about eighty miles northwest northwest of London, so converted 0:02:37.760 --> 0:02:40.760 that kilometers about a hundred and thirty kilometers six and 0:02:40.840 --> 0:02:43.079 forty flong's it's in the cots Wall just kind of 0:02:43.120 --> 0:02:45.160 like the very northern tip of the cots Walls, which 0:02:45.160 --> 0:02:47.440 you may have heard of. Yeah, back to its Back 0:02:47.480 --> 0:02:50.400 to our guy, William Harrison. He set out, he did 0:02:50.480 --> 0:02:53.520 not return by the usual time, so that evening between 0:02:53.560 --> 0:02:56.720 about eight and nine o'clock, his wife sent their servant, 0:02:56.919 --> 0:02:59.239 John Perry to go looking for him on the road 0:02:59.320 --> 0:03:02.360 from charing But Perry didn't come back that night either, 0:03:03.360 --> 0:03:06.120 and Harrison didn't come back obviously either. So early the 0:03:06.160 --> 0:03:09.320 next morning, William Harrison's son Edward set off in the 0:03:09.360 --> 0:03:12.000 direction of Sherrington also to look for his father, and 0:03:12.000 --> 0:03:14.680 he ran into John Perry on the road. So Perry 0:03:14.720 --> 0:03:17.720 tells Edward that Harrison was not in charring Worth, so 0:03:17.760 --> 0:03:20.200 they went together to Ebrington, which is a small village 0:03:20.320 --> 0:03:24.320 kind of between Cherry and Worth and Camden. Can interrupt 0:03:24.360 --> 0:03:27.240 you for saying, Joe, Yeah, so all of these places 0:03:27.240 --> 0:03:30.560 are what a mile or two apart? Yeah, park Ish Yeah, 0:03:31.000 --> 0:03:32.680 right now, I just want more than two or three 0:03:32.720 --> 0:03:38.400 miles apart walking distance, walking away from one another. Yeah, 0:03:38.680 --> 0:03:42.520 I just want to have people understand the short distances 0:03:42.560 --> 0:03:44.480 that are being traveled here. And I'm sure you know, 0:03:44.480 --> 0:03:46.560 it probably was a little bit slow going because you're 0:03:46.560 --> 0:03:49.000 walking on roads, seventeenth century roads which were probably mud. 0:03:49.040 --> 0:03:52.280 There was a foot yes, yeah, no, this is August actually, 0:03:52.320 --> 0:03:54.400 so they probably weren't all mucked. They were just dirt paths. 0:03:54.520 --> 0:03:56.840 Yeah they were, but they were dirt paths. But nonetheless, 0:03:56.880 --> 0:03:58.680 I'm sure it wasn't didn't take that long to get 0:03:58.720 --> 0:04:02.440 from one or the other. And so they went to Abrington. 0:04:02.600 --> 0:04:04.360 There they were told by at least one person that 0:04:04.440 --> 0:04:08.120 Harrison had been there the day before but didn't stay. 0:04:08.200 --> 0:04:11.320 They found not much other word word of him. They 0:04:11.320 --> 0:04:13.400 go back towards Camden. On the way they hear news 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:16.159 had a hat, collar, band and comb were found on 0:04:16.200 --> 0:04:21.280 the road between Ebrington and Camden. And when they finally 0:04:21.720 --> 0:04:23.760 found that found the person with the hat and comb 0:04:23.800 --> 0:04:26.760 and collar, they recognized him as being William Harrison. So 0:04:27.480 --> 0:04:29.520 and there was blood on the collar by the way, 0:04:29.880 --> 0:04:31.479 and that yeah, the hat and the hat and the 0:04:31.520 --> 0:04:34.200 collar had had both been had had some slashes on 0:04:34.279 --> 0:04:36.719 him indicating you know, so all this kind of like 0:04:36.800 --> 0:04:39.159 you know, kind of indicating maybe some foul playing. So 0:04:39.200 --> 0:04:43.440 the hat collar is just not they had no So 0:04:43.520 --> 0:04:45.640 it's the hat and the collar, so that the collar 0:04:45.720 --> 0:04:48.920 was excuse me, it was a shirt collars they used 0:04:48.960 --> 0:04:52.839 to Yeah, they s collar, yeah, because they had that. 0:04:52.920 --> 0:04:55.400 And then they had also those like long garter sleeves 0:04:55.440 --> 0:04:58.440 that you see the cuffs and they're like these big 0:04:58.520 --> 0:05:04.320 just like tie here and tie over the shopkeepers and 0:05:04.320 --> 0:05:08.679 stuff like yes accounts the green build hat on. Yeah, 0:05:08.760 --> 0:05:10.839 so those were to protect their shirt sleeves so they 0:05:10.839 --> 0:05:12.359 didn't have to wash them as much. And then the 0:05:12.400 --> 0:05:15.320 collars were also detachable because that's like where you sweat, 0:05:15.360 --> 0:05:17.000 so you didn't because you have like the one or 0:05:17.000 --> 0:05:19.320 two shirts at the time, right, so you just remove 0:05:19.360 --> 0:05:23.240 your collar and wash that, wash your shirt sleeves, hat 0:05:23.400 --> 0:05:25.719 a shirt collar, and the comb is just a regular 0:05:26.240 --> 0:05:31.520 regular combs like yeah, exactly. Yeah, it really is funny 0:05:31.520 --> 0:05:34.360 actually closing those days this is pre industrial revolution. They 0:05:34.400 --> 0:05:37.160 really were a lot more expensive. Yeah they were, I 0:05:37.200 --> 0:05:39.080 mean they were more expensive, but they were like more 0:05:39.160 --> 0:05:42.440 durable and then you know they were more kind of yeah. Yeah. 0:05:42.640 --> 0:05:45.479 But anyway back to our story though, So news gets 0:05:45.520 --> 0:05:48.080 back to Camden and Harrison is missing and presumed dead. 0:05:48.120 --> 0:05:50.320 So everybody, of course rushes out to the countryside and 0:05:50.320 --> 0:05:52.840 starts beating the rush looking for him, because this was 0:05:52.880 --> 0:05:55.320 what was popular entertainment at the time. Of course, yeah, 0:05:55.360 --> 0:05:58.839 they didn't have TV in the internet, so what the hell? Yeah, 0:05:59.160 --> 0:06:02.120 but they found nothing, nothing at all. Uh n. Actually, 0:06:02.120 --> 0:06:05.160 of course suspicion fell on John. Parry says he had 0:06:05.360 --> 0:06:07.320 gone out that night and not come home, and that 0:06:07.400 --> 0:06:09.880 was kind of hanky, which didn't make any sense. No, 0:06:10.160 --> 0:06:13.120 not entirely. Now. So the next day Perry was brought 0:06:13.160 --> 0:06:15.120 before a Justice of the Piece who asked him why 0:06:15.160 --> 0:06:17.279 he stayed out the night that he went out to 0:06:17.279 --> 0:06:20.159 find Harrison. And Parry tell us this kind of strange story, 0:06:20.240 --> 0:06:22.840 which you guys are familiar with, com Peter for our listeners. 0:06:23.400 --> 0:06:26.000 So he sort of left left the house and ventured 0:06:26.000 --> 0:06:28.000 out a little ways and then comes back because he 0:06:28.080 --> 0:06:30.920 was afraid of the dark, doesn't go back inside the house, 0:06:30.920 --> 0:06:33.240 so it just comes back to the gate and and 0:06:33.279 --> 0:06:36.400 then the local guy stops by, and together they venture 0:06:36.440 --> 0:06:38.720 out into the weeds a little bit, and but then 0:06:38.720 --> 0:06:40.599 Pierce had to leave, so Parry goes back to the 0:06:40.640 --> 0:06:43.680 gate and then he goes inside the handhouse, lays down 0:06:43.680 --> 0:06:47.080 for an hour or so. Um, and then around midnight 0:06:47.200 --> 0:06:50.719 the moon was out, so he he got out again 0:06:50.800 --> 0:06:52.880 and left and went down the road because well there's moon, 0:06:53.000 --> 0:06:56.080 so I can see who's Pierce. Pierce was just some 0:06:56.279 --> 0:06:59.200 random local dude. You just said it like we were 0:06:59.200 --> 0:07:03.680 supposed to know that person. Yeah, I think so. And 0:07:03.839 --> 0:07:06.599 uh and and also he verified actually some of what 0:07:06.680 --> 0:07:08.920 Perry said, although there wasn't much because he just basically 0:07:08.960 --> 0:07:10.240 ran into him and they went off in the weeds 0:07:10.280 --> 0:07:12.880 and came back. And so that's it really sounds like 0:07:12.920 --> 0:07:15.600 maybe somebody was shirking their duties and drinking. It could 0:07:15.600 --> 0:07:19.160 have been. That's really that's what I like, you know, 0:07:19.200 --> 0:07:21.480 I've got a little i'll take, i'll treate like time off. 0:07:21.520 --> 0:07:23.920 So he goes out and finds his stats and the 0:07:23.920 --> 0:07:26.480 hedge row, you know, and you know, pulls out his 0:07:26.520 --> 0:07:30.320 bag and makes himself a generous joint lights up, and uh, 0:07:30.720 --> 0:07:32.960 maybe I don't know who knows what he was into. 0:07:33.200 --> 0:07:34.720 I mean, he could have been scared of the dark, 0:07:34.760 --> 0:07:36.760 but also like too scared to say he was scared 0:07:36.760 --> 0:07:39.720 of the dark, and also too scared to come back 0:07:39.760 --> 0:07:43.600 without anything. I mean, maybe he would just hang out 0:07:43.640 --> 0:07:45.360 and just just come back and say, no, I looked 0:07:45.400 --> 0:07:47.520 all over it couldn't find him, I know. Yeah, And 0:07:47.560 --> 0:07:50.160 actually in those days, of course it was more dangerous 0:07:50.200 --> 0:07:51.480 to be out on the road. And now for sure, 0:07:51.600 --> 0:07:53.680 yeah it wasn't that there were street lights. Yeah, there 0:07:53.680 --> 0:07:55.720 were no street lights, and they were definitely I mean, 0:07:55.840 --> 0:07:58.400 robbery and all kinds of stuff was going on. So 0:07:58.960 --> 0:08:01.040 it's understandable that he felt a little reluctant to go 0:08:01.080 --> 0:08:03.320 out there. But it's still kind of weird story. Yeah 0:08:03.360 --> 0:08:05.040 it is a weird so you go, but yeah, his 0:08:05.080 --> 0:08:07.640 story is weird. He goes out down the road again 0:08:07.720 --> 0:08:09.680 the moon, the moon is out now, but damn it, 0:08:09.760 --> 0:08:12.400 some mist comes up. So he was lost in the mist, 0:08:12.480 --> 0:08:16.000 which I don't really understand because these roads in Britain 0:08:16.040 --> 0:08:17.960 at the time, we're all surrounded by hedges. So how 0:08:17.960 --> 0:08:19.840 do you get lost, you know, if you're just bounced 0:08:19.880 --> 0:08:21.760 off the hedges one side or the other, I guess. 0:08:22.920 --> 0:08:25.480 But so he slept under a hedge that night, and 0:08:25.520 --> 0:08:28.640 then at dawn the next morning on Friday, he continues 0:08:28.720 --> 0:08:30.800 on to chairing Worth, where he spoke to a few 0:08:30.800 --> 0:08:34.160 locals who had seen Harrison and then he heads home, 0:08:34.320 --> 0:08:36.880 meets Harrison's son Edward on the way, and they then 0:08:36.960 --> 0:08:39.400 he went to Everton, etcetera. As we know, he was 0:08:39.440 --> 0:08:41.480 asked why by the justice of the piece, he didn't, 0:08:41.559 --> 0:08:43.440 you know, at midnight when he got up to leave again, 0:08:43.440 --> 0:08:45.080 why he didn't just go inside the house to check 0:08:45.080 --> 0:08:47.760 and make sure that Harrison hadn't come home. And he 0:08:47.800 --> 0:08:49.839 gave this story like, well, there was a light on 0:08:49.920 --> 0:08:51.920 in the bedroom and I knew that if that light 0:08:52.000 --> 0:08:55.040 was on, then then that's because Harrison wasn't home, because 0:08:55.040 --> 0:09:00.200 it would have been out. Okay, so you know it's understandable. Ye, 0:09:01.120 --> 0:09:03.680 I don't know. You think he would check, but he didn't. 0:09:04.000 --> 0:09:07.480 It was not exactly incriminating. It didn't quite make total sense. 0:09:07.640 --> 0:09:09.760 And so he was kept in custody and campden for 0:09:09.760 --> 0:09:12.880 about a week because of this. Uh and while in jail, 0:09:12.880 --> 0:09:15.400 apparently told some people that a few stories which want 0:09:15.400 --> 0:09:18.440 to tinker had killed Harris, and uh another story one 0:09:18.440 --> 0:09:20.839 of the servants in the neighborhood had killed and robbed 0:09:20.840 --> 0:09:24.280 and killed Harris and his body had been hidden somewhere 0:09:24.320 --> 0:09:28.680 in camped And it sounds like he's just a blowhard blatherer. 0:09:29.080 --> 0:09:31.199 I think so. I think so. Yeah, and maybe not 0:09:31.559 --> 0:09:34.160 much to his detriment. Maybe not that smart. You know. 0:09:34.240 --> 0:09:36.800 That's the first first rule of thinking sideways is when 0:09:36.800 --> 0:09:39.040 you're when you're under arrest, keep your mouth shut. Yeah, 0:09:39.040 --> 0:09:41.319 but also don't plead the fifth at the same time. Yeah, no, 0:09:41.440 --> 0:09:44.079 that looks bad. Just don't talk. Yeah, just pretend to 0:09:44.080 --> 0:09:48.600 be mused. Yeah, exactly, hand car. Yeah, he loves the lamp, 0:09:48.840 --> 0:09:52.600 loves lamb. You asked for a pencil, like a pencil 0:09:52.640 --> 0:09:54.480 and paper, and when you get it, you just grabbed 0:09:54.480 --> 0:09:58.040 the pencil and make a big ax and then look 0:09:58.120 --> 0:10:01.679 at it like you're really proud. Yeah, okay, anyway, I 0:10:02.320 --> 0:10:07.600 totally so. On August, Parry is again brought before the 0:10:07.679 --> 0:10:09.959 Justice of the Piece, and this time Perry Stell tell 0:10:10.000 --> 0:10:13.920 us the Justice that Harrison had been murdered, so totally 0:10:13.960 --> 0:10:16.480 different story, but but not by John. Perry said that 0:10:16.559 --> 0:10:20.280 his mother Joan and his brother Richard had done the deed. Uh. 0:10:20.320 --> 0:10:23.400 And so to make this sort of long story short, 0:10:23.760 --> 0:10:25.640 he said that never since he took this job with 0:10:25.760 --> 0:10:28.520 the Harrison's, and the Harrison's were well off people because 0:10:28.520 --> 0:10:31.160 they worked for the Vicountess, right, and so he got 0:10:31.160 --> 0:10:32.960 this job as their servant. So ever since then, his 0:10:33.000 --> 0:10:35.800 mother and his brother, he said, had pestered him uh 0:10:35.920 --> 0:10:38.960 to help them, to help steal from them or or 0:10:39.000 --> 0:10:41.840 whatever rob from no, because they need the money. And 0:10:41.920 --> 0:10:44.320 so they wanted him to basically tell them in advance 0:10:44.360 --> 0:10:46.079 when Harrison was going to go out to click rent 0:10:46.120 --> 0:10:47.760 money so they could wale him on the road and 0:10:47.840 --> 0:10:51.120 rob him. So on the Thursday morning that Harrison went 0:10:51.160 --> 0:10:55.040 to Charrington, uh, John Perry told his brother Richard where 0:10:55.120 --> 0:10:58.719 Harrison was going. And then later that evening about when 0:10:58.760 --> 0:11:01.400 he was heading out to look for him on the road, 0:11:01.480 --> 0:11:05.400 and that was about John Perry met Richard Perry at 0:11:05.400 --> 0:11:07.640 the gate and they went down the road looking to 0:11:07.720 --> 0:11:11.600 intercept Harrison, Richard being his brother, Richard Being's brother Richard 0:11:11.600 --> 0:11:15.000 Perry uh, until they spotted someone they assumed was Harrison. 0:11:15.200 --> 0:11:16.880 And I got to interrupt this to say this is 0:11:16.920 --> 0:11:19.240 this is again a little odd feature of his story, 0:11:19.320 --> 0:11:22.760 which is why did Richard wait until this late which 0:11:22.800 --> 0:11:25.760 is after actually Harrison was supposed to be back home 0:11:26.160 --> 0:11:28.240 And then he finally shows up and says, Okay, let's 0:11:28.240 --> 0:11:30.600 go do some robbery that that doesn't quite make sense 0:11:30.640 --> 0:11:34.080 to Yeah, there's things about John Perry's story. Again, they 0:11:34.200 --> 0:11:36.920 just don't quite add up. So John Perry tells Richard 0:11:36.920 --> 0:11:39.319 to go rob Harrison while he just ambles around in 0:11:39.360 --> 0:11:41.560 the fields a little bit. I'm not sure what this 0:11:41.600 --> 0:11:44.080 is about. Maybe he thought Harrison would recognize his voice 0:11:44.080 --> 0:11:46.880 in the dark or something. I'm not sure. But so 0:11:46.920 --> 0:11:48.760 he tells his brother to go do the robin and 0:11:48.800 --> 0:11:50.800 then he comes back and he finds Harrison is on 0:11:50.840 --> 0:11:53.000 the ground with Richard standing over him, and his mother 0:11:53.080 --> 0:11:56.480 is standing nearby. So so William Harrison was not dead 0:11:56.520 --> 0:11:59.240 at this point, but Richard Perry finished him off by 0:11:59.240 --> 0:12:02.400 strangling him. Uh. And Richard and John carried the body 0:12:02.400 --> 0:12:05.520 to a nearby cesspool and tossed it in after taking 0:12:05.559 --> 0:12:07.880 all the money out of the pockets, etcetera. And this 0:12:07.960 --> 0:12:10.720 was not that far outside of Camden. So John Perry 0:12:10.760 --> 0:12:12.960 goes back to the house. This is where he runs 0:12:12.960 --> 0:12:15.080 into that guy Pierce that I was talking about earlier. 0:12:15.280 --> 0:12:18.480 Runs into Piers just to see it, said earlier and uh. 0:12:18.679 --> 0:12:20.640 And after that went into the hand house and stayed 0:12:20.640 --> 0:12:23.760 there till about midnight. But the differences is he had 0:12:23.880 --> 0:12:27.760 kept Harrison's hat, collar band and comb because after the 0:12:27.760 --> 0:12:29.160 moon came up, he took him back out on the 0:12:29.200 --> 0:12:31.800 road a little ways out and dropped him on the road, 0:12:31.880 --> 0:12:34.480 so it looked like, you know, he had been actually 0:12:34.600 --> 0:12:36.760 way laid in the cost is somewhere different from where 0:12:36.760 --> 0:12:41.280 it actually happened. And uh yeah, crime scene staging, right, yeah. 0:12:41.360 --> 0:12:43.360 And then and then of course he sets off towards 0:12:43.760 --> 0:12:46.880 Charrington to complete his fishy story. And he also confessed 0:12:46.920 --> 0:12:49.719 that just the year before, William Harrison's house had been 0:12:49.720 --> 0:12:52.520 broken into and someone has stolen a hundred forty pounds 0:12:52.559 --> 0:12:56.000 from it. The prips were never found, and Perry told 0:12:56.040 --> 0:12:58.360 the Justice of the piece that well, Richard had done 0:12:58.360 --> 0:13:01.200 it using information that John had given him about where 0:13:01.240 --> 0:13:03.840 to find the money. Okay, so he fasted up to 0:13:03.920 --> 0:13:06.840 that too, And so of course Joan, mother Joan, and 0:13:06.920 --> 0:13:10.080 brother Richard were arrested, and of course the cesspool was 0:13:10.160 --> 0:13:12.920 dragged and searched for Harrison's body. I don't know if 0:13:12.920 --> 0:13:14.920 they put a guy in a scuba suit or what 0:13:15.080 --> 0:13:19.439 to set him down to search the bottom. Yeah, probably, 0:13:20.440 --> 0:13:24.920 but they didn't. Oh yeah, just not disgusting. But well, 0:13:24.960 --> 0:13:27.439 they didn't find his body, and they checked every other 0:13:27.520 --> 0:13:31.200 pool in town, also fish pools or at ponds, or whatever. 0:13:31.720 --> 0:13:34.160 They found nothing, and then they searched the entire town. 0:13:34.200 --> 0:13:37.440 There's some ruins of the original estate, the Campdas state 0:13:37.520 --> 0:13:39.880 and they want to do all that stuff. And so 0:13:40.080 --> 0:13:43.560 they found no body. But anyway, the rest of the family, 0:13:43.640 --> 0:13:46.560 Joan and Richard, the mother and the brother, denied all 0:13:46.600 --> 0:13:49.880 the charges. Of course, they said it was all just bs, 0:13:50.120 --> 0:13:52.600 which was what you'd expect them to say. John stood 0:13:52.600 --> 0:13:55.599 by his story. And there was one incriminating piece of 0:13:55.600 --> 0:13:57.920 physical evidence was which is a ball of blenden tape 0:13:57.920 --> 0:14:00.920 that was founded on Richard Pairing, and a policeman showed 0:14:00.960 --> 0:14:04.000 it to John Perry, and John Perry said, oh, yeah, yeah, Yeah, 0:14:04.040 --> 0:14:06.120 that's the strain that my brother used to strangle my 0:14:06.200 --> 0:14:09.560 master with. So that's the only physical evidence they've got. Yeah, 0:14:09.720 --> 0:14:12.360 so they don't have the body, don't they maybe have 0:14:12.440 --> 0:14:15.640 a murder weapon? And as far as evidence of the burglary, well, 0:14:15.760 --> 0:14:19.400 Richard had told John after the burglary that he buried 0:14:19.400 --> 0:14:20.800 the money in this garden and they were just going 0:14:20.880 --> 0:14:23.280 to leave it there and tell everything cooled down it 0:14:23.360 --> 0:14:25.240 was safe to spend it. So it was still buried 0:14:25.280 --> 0:14:27.120 in the garden. At the ends of this point, right, 0:14:27.240 --> 0:14:29.320 they went and dug up the garden authorities did they 0:14:29.320 --> 0:14:33.360 found They found no money. Yeah, I know. Uh so 0:14:33.480 --> 0:14:36.560 John's stories. He's confessional these major crimes. There's no evidence 0:14:36.840 --> 0:14:39.720 to back up anything he's actually said. And of course 0:14:39.760 --> 0:14:43.080 his mother and his brother deny everything. But nonetheless, in 0:14:43.120 --> 0:14:46.480 September and the following month, after the disappearance of Harris, 0:14:46.520 --> 0:14:49.960 and all three of them were indicted for burglary and 0:14:50.040 --> 0:14:54.400 also for robbery and murder. Yeah, and the judge refused 0:14:54.400 --> 0:14:56.640 to try them on the robbery murder charge because the 0:14:56.680 --> 0:14:58.440 body had not been found and this is like less 0:14:58.440 --> 0:15:01.440 than a month after he disappeared, and so that he 0:15:01.520 --> 0:15:03.800 thought it was just not quite right to charge somebody 0:15:03.800 --> 0:15:06.320 with murder when he could just be off somewhere gallivanting 0:15:06.360 --> 0:15:11.440 around the country, right, yeah, yeah, And so so he 0:15:11.440 --> 0:15:13.440 wouldn't charge him on that. But they were still tried 0:15:13.520 --> 0:15:16.040 for the charge of robbery and they pleaded not guilty. 0:15:16.080 --> 0:15:19.440 But then they changed their pleading guilty because this came 0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:22.000 after This is where we get you get a little 0:15:22.000 --> 0:15:24.840 free English history lesson which I'd sure all British listeners 0:15:24.880 --> 0:15:28.720 are gonna love to hear. Yeah, refrained from Yeah, they 0:15:28.720 --> 0:15:31.600 haven't heard this before tell me I got everything wrong. 0:15:31.720 --> 0:15:33.560 But they changed their police to guilty and asked the 0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:36.560 court to grant them amnesty for the crime because there 0:15:36.640 --> 0:15:39.000 was a pardon in the Act of Oblivion of King 0:15:39.080 --> 0:15:42.160 Charles the Second that had recently come down, and so 0:15:42.200 --> 0:15:45.800 they got a pardon and that was that charge is dismissed. Uh. 0:15:45.880 --> 0:15:47.800 In the case you're confused about that, I'll give you 0:15:47.920 --> 0:15:49.960 a quick background. This happened right after the end of 0:15:49.960 --> 0:15:53.400 the English Civil War in se Charles the First was 0:15:53.440 --> 0:15:56.520 beheaded and the monarchy and the House of Lords were abolished. 0:15:56.640 --> 0:15:58.880 England was declared to be a commonwealth with the more 0:15:58.960 --> 0:16:02.640 representative form we've got it makes sense. Cromwell and people 0:16:02.640 --> 0:16:05.400 hated Cromwell. Well, this is before Cromwell. Actually he was 0:16:05.440 --> 0:16:11.160 like this, yeah, yeah, Cromwell was around. But but the 0:16:11.200 --> 0:16:13.560 things that he really didn't like with the Protectorate, which 0:16:13.600 --> 0:16:16.760 came after the Commonwealth. But the Commonwealth didn't work out 0:16:16.760 --> 0:16:19.120 so well. In sixteen fifty three all over Cromwell was 0:16:19.160 --> 0:16:22.800 declared Lord protector and this period is called the Protectorate, 0:16:22.920 --> 0:16:25.120 and Cromwell ruled with all the powers of a king, 0:16:25.200 --> 0:16:28.240 but he was totally not a king. Got it. Totally, 0:16:28.280 --> 0:16:31.560 not at all, not even close. But it turns out 0:16:31.640 --> 0:16:34.400 life down the life under the protectorate was more repressive 0:16:34.440 --> 0:16:36.960 than it had ever been out of the monarchy, almost 0:16:36.960 --> 0:16:43.200 like it was a dictatorship. Yeah and so so eventually 0:16:43.320 --> 0:16:45.800 Parliament proposed to restore the monarchy, and the offer that 0:16:45.840 --> 0:16:49.400 thrown the Prince Charles, son of Charles the first. Oh 0:16:49.600 --> 0:16:53.040 like Charles, the one that prince that we have now, yeah, 0:16:53.200 --> 0:16:56.360 the same, the same Prince Charles. He looks like I 0:16:56.400 --> 0:16:58.360 was going to say, because that Prince Charles is actually 0:16:58.600 --> 0:17:03.280 prince under his mom, the Queen. Alright, so different Charles, 0:17:03.400 --> 0:17:07.679 different Charles. But yeah, well no, the English made this 0:17:07.760 --> 0:17:12.160 confusing by naming all of their same humans, the same people, things, 0:17:12.200 --> 0:17:14.720 the same people. It made sense. Shut up, Why, I mean, 0:17:14.720 --> 0:17:17.760 why isn't there why is there not a King Javier 0:17:17.920 --> 0:17:23.880 or King Man? Well, yeah, or king anyway? Sorry, So, 0:17:23.960 --> 0:17:27.080 how does this affect the guilty plea? Well, okay, So, 0:17:27.080 --> 0:17:30.760 so when Parliament offered to restore the monarchy and give 0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:33.159 him the throne, they made it a condition of his 0:17:33.160 --> 0:17:35.520 return that he issued a general pardon for all crimes 0:17:35.520 --> 0:17:38.359 committed during the Civil War. The Commonwealth and the protectorate, 0:17:38.640 --> 0:17:41.520 and the idea was just kind of a reconciliation, you know, 0:17:41.600 --> 0:17:45.840 like you just washing wash the slate clean, like first start. Yeah, 0:17:45.840 --> 0:17:49.399 pretty much every crime, every crime except regicide. Okay, So 0:17:49.560 --> 0:17:51.960 I could have gone and murdered someone like a bunch 0:17:51.960 --> 0:17:55.280 of people probably in the middle of the didn't kill 0:17:55.680 --> 0:17:57.679 like a king or a prince, and they would have 0:17:57.720 --> 0:17:59.639 been like, well, actually it's okay now it would have 0:17:59.640 --> 0:18:03.000 been yeah, because we got a king again, so it's cool. Yeah, 0:18:03.040 --> 0:18:06.359 everybody awesome. Okay, Well I know where I'm going in 0:18:06.400 --> 0:18:09.040 my time machine now, I know I know about yeah 0:18:09.160 --> 0:18:13.600 six six that's a good time. Yeah. But anyway, that's 0:18:13.600 --> 0:18:15.800 how that's why they were able to plead guilty to 0:18:15.840 --> 0:18:20.560 this burglary and get pardoned for the crime because just 0:18:20.680 --> 0:18:23.960 under the tag and he had some good lawyers. Okay, no, no, 0:18:24.080 --> 0:18:25.760 I don't I don't even know if they had a lawyer. 0:18:25.880 --> 0:18:27.840 It might have been the justice himself and said, hey, look, 0:18:27.880 --> 0:18:30.960 why don't you spare us all aheadache and just plead guilty. Yeah, 0:18:31.200 --> 0:18:33.840 that's probably more likely what happened. So they were guilty, 0:18:33.880 --> 0:18:37.760 So they did it. No plead pleading guilty. They all 0:18:37.800 --> 0:18:41.200 denied later that they're actually guilty of this crime. Yeah, 0:18:41.240 --> 0:18:44.159 John took back all of his confessions. You have to 0:18:44.160 --> 0:18:46.359 wonder if maybe John wasn't under a little bit of 0:18:46.400 --> 0:18:49.320 dressed by the police, kind of kind of pondered that 0:18:49.400 --> 0:18:52.680 maybe he was given the old rubber hose treatment. Perhaps. Um, 0:18:52.920 --> 0:18:54.960 but you know, the guilty plea might have made some sense, 0:18:55.000 --> 0:18:57.600 and it saved everybody the bother of a trial. It probably, 0:18:58.000 --> 0:18:59.920 from their point of view, in a sense, was a 0:19:00.040 --> 0:19:02.840 smart move because it means it meant that the justice 0:19:02.880 --> 0:19:06.560 who was sitting on their case was probably more more 0:19:06.600 --> 0:19:09.159 inclined in their favor because he had just saved They 0:19:09.160 --> 0:19:12.719 had just saved him some hassle, you know, so scratch 0:19:12.800 --> 0:19:15.040 my back, I scratched yours kind of Yeah. But but 0:19:15.119 --> 0:19:17.159 it was bad optics with the public because in the 0:19:17.160 --> 0:19:19.840 eyes of all the locals who were the future jury 0:19:19.840 --> 0:19:24.280 pool for any trials that might happen foreshadowing. Uh, it 0:19:24.400 --> 0:19:27.400 confirmed that the parish they were guilty. Yeah, they were scallowags, 0:19:27.400 --> 0:19:30.960 they were there were nearly wells. Yeah, it confirmed that 0:19:31.040 --> 0:19:33.399 not only had they wanted to rob William Harrison, but 0:19:33.440 --> 0:19:38.720 they actually had robbed him and so and so well necessarily. 0:19:38.760 --> 0:19:40.760 But but it made it easier to believe later on 0:19:40.800 --> 0:19:42.359 down the line that they had way lad him and 0:19:42.440 --> 0:19:45.359 robbed him and murdered him, and eventually they were tried 0:19:45.440 --> 0:19:48.720 on those charges. Of course, that didn't happen for until 0:19:48.760 --> 0:19:52.440 the next year, in March sixte By this time, of course, 0:19:52.480 --> 0:19:54.520 there's still no body. But people felt a little more 0:19:54.520 --> 0:19:56.560 comfortable about the situation because it has been like eight 0:19:56.600 --> 0:20:02.800 months a year in a while, and so and no word, 0:20:03.119 --> 0:20:05.840 no side of him. And he had a wife, Yeah, 0:20:05.840 --> 0:20:07.720 he had a wife. Yeah. And he had a nice job, 0:20:07.840 --> 0:20:10.680 which he presumably would have he would have probably sent 0:20:10.720 --> 0:20:13.080 a letter to his wife. Yeah, he was him. Yeah, 0:20:13.119 --> 0:20:14.920 I mean in those days, and you know those days 0:20:14.920 --> 0:20:17.160