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Speaker 1: This episode of Thinking Sideways is not brought to you

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Speaker 1: by short term goals for long term planning. Instead, it's

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Speaker 1: think you Yeah, well, hi there, Welcome to another episode

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Speaker 1: of Thinking Sideways. I am your host, Joe, joined as

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Speaker 1: always by Steve and by Devine, and together we are

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Speaker 1: the terrific trio tripid. Yeah yeah yeah, Star star walls.

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Speaker 1: Oh it's what they say in the old time heat

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Speaker 1: like radio things and it's star walled man servant our gyle.

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Speaker 1: But I can't. I can't say it's fine, doesn't matter, Okay,

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Speaker 1: going on, a good star, Moving on, Kevin, what's this

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Speaker 1: word here? So I can't that's right, sorry, Joe, continue on. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: let's do this. So for this week, we decided to

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Speaker 1: reach way back in time, clear back to the seventeenth

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Speaker 1: century as a matter of fact. For our mystery, it

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Speaker 1: begins on the six of August in the year sixteen

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Speaker 1: sixty when William Harrison UH set off on foot from

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Speaker 1: the village of Campden Chipping Campton. I guess, I said,

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Speaker 1: I think that's Camden. What do you guys think? I

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Speaker 1: think it's camp as Campden spelled Campton. But I'm sure

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Speaker 1: it's once again our British listeners trying to trip us

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Speaker 1: up with yet another tricky spelling force. Now, so he

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Speaker 1: leaves his village towards the village of charing Worth or

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Speaker 1: suit charing Worth, about two miles away, and he's going

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Speaker 1: to collect rent money that's owed to his employer, who

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Speaker 1: was the Viscountess Camden. And so so she, being the

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Speaker 1: you know, rich titled nobles, owns all the land. It's

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Speaker 1: everyone's got to pay her rent. And so he's off

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Speaker 1: to collect some rents. William Harrison was the steward Diverse

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Speaker 1: states uh in which is Chipping Campton, Cloucester, Gloucestershire, which

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Speaker 1: is a small town in the middle of England somewhere okay, Uh,

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Speaker 1: it's about eighty miles northwest northwest of London, so converted

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Speaker 1: that kilometers about a hundred and thirty kilometers six and

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Speaker 1: forty flong's it's in the cots Wall just kind of

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Speaker 1: like the very northern tip of the cots Walls, which

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Speaker 1: you may have heard of. Yeah, back to its Back

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Speaker 1: to our guy, William Harrison. He set out, he did

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Speaker 1: not return by the usual time, so that evening between

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Speaker 1: about eight and nine o'clock, his wife sent their servant,

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Speaker 1: John Perry to go looking for him on the road

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Speaker 1: from charing But Perry didn't come back that night either,

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Speaker 1: and Harrison didn't come back obviously either. So early the

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Speaker 1: next morning, William Harrison's son Edward set off in the

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Speaker 1: direction of Sherrington also to look for his father, and

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Speaker 1: he ran into John Perry on the road. So Perry

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Speaker 1: tells Edward that Harrison was not in charring Worth, so

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Speaker 1: they went together to Ebrington, which is a small village

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Speaker 1: kind of between Cherry and Worth and Camden. Can interrupt

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Speaker 1: you for saying, Joe, Yeah, so all of these places

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Speaker 1: are what a mile or two apart? Yeah, park Ish Yeah,

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Speaker 1: right now, I just want more than two or three

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Speaker 1: miles apart walking distance, walking away from one another. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I just want to have people understand the short distances

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Speaker 1: that are being traveled here. And I'm sure you know,

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Speaker 1: it probably was a little bit slow going because you're

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Speaker 1: walking on roads, seventeenth century roads which were probably mud.

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Speaker 1: There was a foot yes, yeah, no, this is August actually,

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Speaker 1: so they probably weren't all mucked. They were just dirt paths.

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Speaker 1: Yeah they were, but they were dirt paths. But nonetheless,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure it wasn't didn't take that long to get

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Speaker 1: from one or the other. And so they went to Abrington.

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Speaker 1: There they were told by at least one person that

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Speaker 1: Harrison had been there the day before but didn't stay.

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Speaker 1: They found not much other word word of him. They

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Speaker 1: go back towards Camden. On the way they hear news

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Speaker 1: had a hat, collar, band and comb were found on

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Speaker 1: the road between Ebrington and Camden. And when they finally

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Speaker 1: found that found the person with the hat and comb

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Speaker 1: and collar, they recognized him as being William Harrison. So

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Speaker 1: and there was blood on the collar by the way,

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Speaker 1: and that yeah, the hat and the hat and the

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Speaker 1: collar had had both been had had some slashes on

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Speaker 1: him indicating you know, so all this kind of like

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Speaker 1: you know, kind of indicating maybe some foul playing. So

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Speaker 1: the hat collar is just not they had no So

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Speaker 1: it's the hat and the collar, so that the collar

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Speaker 1: was excuse me, it was a shirt collars they used

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Speaker 1: to Yeah, they s collar, yeah, because they had that.

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Speaker 1: And then they had also those like long garter sleeves

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Speaker 1: that you see the cuffs and they're like these big

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Speaker 1: just like tie here and tie over the shopkeepers and

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Speaker 1: stuff like yes accounts the green build hat on. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so those were to protect their shirt sleeves so they

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Speaker 1: didn't have to wash them as much. And then the

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Speaker 1: collars were also detachable because that's like where you sweat,

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Speaker 1: so you didn't because you have like the one or

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Speaker 1: two shirts at the time, right, so you just remove

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Speaker 1: your collar and wash that, wash your shirt sleeves, hat

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Speaker 1: a shirt collar, and the comb is just a regular

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Speaker 1: regular combs like yeah, exactly. Yeah, it really is funny

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Speaker 1: actually closing those days this is pre industrial revolution. They

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Speaker 1: really were a lot more expensive. Yeah they were, I

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Speaker 1: mean they were more expensive, but they were like more

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Speaker 1: durable and then you know they were more kind of yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: But anyway back to our story though, So news gets

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Speaker 1: back to Camden and Harrison is missing and presumed dead.

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Speaker 1: So everybody, of course rushes out to the countryside and

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Speaker 1: starts beating the rush looking for him, because this was

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Speaker 1: what was popular entertainment at the time. Of course, yeah,

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Speaker 1: they didn't have TV in the internet, so what the hell? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but they found nothing, nothing at all. Uh n. Actually,

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Speaker 1: of course suspicion fell on John. Parry says he had

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Speaker 1: gone out that night and not come home, and that

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Speaker 1: was kind of hanky, which didn't make any sense. No,

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Speaker 1: not entirely. Now. So the next day Perry was brought

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Speaker 1: before a Justice of the Piece who asked him why

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Speaker 1: he stayed out the night that he went out to

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Speaker 1: find Harrison. And Parry tell us this kind of strange story,

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Speaker 1: which you guys are familiar with, com Peter for our listeners.

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Speaker 1: So he sort of left left the house and ventured

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Speaker 1: out a little ways and then comes back because he

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Speaker 1: was afraid of the dark, doesn't go back inside the house,

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Speaker 1: so it just comes back to the gate and and

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Speaker 1: then the local guy stops by, and together they venture

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Speaker 1: out into the weeds a little bit, and but then

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Speaker 1: Pierce had to leave, so Parry goes back to the

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Speaker 1: gate and then he goes inside the handhouse, lays down

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Speaker 1: for an hour or so. Um, and then around midnight

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Speaker 1: the moon was out, so he he got out again

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Speaker 1: and left and went down the road because well there's moon,

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Speaker 1: so I can see who's Pierce. Pierce was just some

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Speaker 1: random local dude. You just said it like we were

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Speaker 1: supposed to know that person. Yeah, I think so. And

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Speaker 1: uh and and also he verified actually some of what

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Speaker 1: Perry said, although there wasn't much because he just basically

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Speaker 1: ran into him and they went off in the weeds

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Speaker 1: and came back. And so that's it really sounds like

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Speaker 1: maybe somebody was shirking their duties and drinking. It could

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Speaker 1: have been. That's really that's what I like, you know,

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Speaker 1: I've got a little i'll take, i'll treate like time off.

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Speaker 1: So he goes out and finds his stats and the

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Speaker 1: hedge row, you know, and you know, pulls out his

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Speaker 1: bag and makes himself a generous joint lights up, and uh,

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Speaker 1: maybe I don't know who knows what he was into.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he could have been scared of the dark,

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Speaker 1: but also like too scared to say he was scared

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Speaker 1: of the dark, and also too scared to come back

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Speaker 1: without anything. I mean, maybe he would just hang out

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Speaker 1: and just just come back and say, no, I looked

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Speaker 1: all over it couldn't find him, I know. Yeah, And

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Speaker 1: actually in those days, of course it was more dangerous

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Speaker 1: to be out on the road. And now for sure,

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Speaker 1: yeah it wasn't that there were street lights. Yeah, there

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Speaker 1: were no street lights, and they were definitely I mean,

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Speaker 1: robbery and all kinds of stuff was going on. So

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Speaker 1: it's understandable that he felt a little reluctant to go

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Speaker 1: out there. But it's still kind of weird story. Yeah

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Speaker 1: it is a weird so you go, but yeah, his

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Speaker 1: story is weird. He goes out down the road again

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Speaker 1: the moon, the moon is out now, but damn it,

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Speaker 1: some mist comes up. So he was lost in the mist,

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Speaker 1: which I don't really understand because these roads in Britain

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Speaker 1: at the time, we're all surrounded by hedges. So how

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Speaker 1: do you get lost, you know, if you're just bounced

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Speaker 1: off the hedges one side or the other, I guess.

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Speaker 1: But so he slept under a hedge that night, and

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Speaker 1: then at dawn the next morning on Friday, he continues

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Speaker 1: on to chairing Worth, where he spoke to a few

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Speaker 1: locals who had seen Harrison and then he heads home,

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Speaker 1: meets Harrison's son Edward on the way, and they then

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Speaker 1: he went to Everton, etcetera. As we know, he was

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Speaker 1: asked why by the justice of the piece, he didn't,

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Speaker 1: you know, at midnight when he got up to leave again,

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Speaker 1: why he didn't just go inside the house to check

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Speaker 1: and make sure that Harrison hadn't come home. And he

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Speaker 1: gave this story like, well, there was a light on

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Speaker 1: in the bedroom and I knew that if that light

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Speaker 1: was on, then then that's because Harrison wasn't home, because

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Speaker 1: it would have been out. Okay, so you know it's understandable. Ye,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. You think he would check, but he didn't.

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Speaker 1: It was not exactly incriminating. It didn't quite make total sense.

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Speaker 1: And so he was kept in custody and campden for

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Speaker 1: about a week because of this. Uh and while in jail,

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Speaker 1: apparently told some people that a few stories which want

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Speaker 1: to tinker had killed Harris, and uh another story one

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Speaker 1: of the servants in the neighborhood had killed and robbed

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Speaker 1: and killed Harris and his body had been hidden somewhere

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Speaker 1: in camped And it sounds like he's just a blowhard blatherer.

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Speaker 1: I think so. I think so. Yeah, and maybe not

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Speaker 1: much to his detriment. Maybe not that smart. You know.

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Speaker 1: That's the first first rule of thinking sideways is when

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Speaker 1: you're when you're under arrest, keep your mouth shut. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but also don't plead the fifth at the same time. Yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: that looks bad. Just don't talk. Yeah, just pretend to

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Speaker 1: be mused. Yeah, exactly, hand car. Yeah, he loves the lamp,

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Speaker 1: loves lamb. You asked for a pencil, like a pencil

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Speaker 1: and paper, and when you get it, you just grabbed

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Speaker 1: the pencil and make a big ax and then look

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Speaker 1: at it like you're really proud. Yeah, okay, anyway, I

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Speaker 1: totally so. On August, Parry is again brought before the

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Speaker 1: Justice of the Piece, and this time Perry Stell tell

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Speaker 1: us the Justice that Harrison had been murdered, so totally

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Speaker 1: different story, but but not by John. Perry said that

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Speaker 1: his mother Joan and his brother Richard had done the deed. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And so to make this sort of long story short,

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Speaker 1: he said that never since he took this job with

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Speaker 1: the Harrison's, and the Harrison's were well off people because

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Speaker 1: they worked for the Vicountess, right, and so he got

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Speaker 1: this job as their servant. So ever since then, his

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Speaker 1: mother and his brother, he said, had pestered him uh

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Speaker 1: to help them, to help steal from them or or

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Speaker 1: whatever rob from no, because they need the money. And

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Speaker 1: so they wanted him to basically tell them in advance

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Speaker 1: when Harrison was going to go out to click rent

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Speaker 1: money so they could wale him on the road and

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Speaker 1: rob him. So on the Thursday morning that Harrison went

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Speaker 1: to Charrington, uh, John Perry told his brother Richard where

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Speaker 1: Harrison was going. And then later that evening about when

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Speaker 1: he was heading out to look for him on the road,

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Speaker 1: and that was about John Perry met Richard Perry at

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Speaker 1: the gate and they went down the road looking to

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Speaker 1: intercept Harrison, Richard being his brother, Richard Being's brother Richard

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Speaker 1: Perry uh, until they spotted someone they assumed was Harrison.

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Speaker 1: And I got to interrupt this to say this is

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Speaker 1: this is again a little odd feature of his story,

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Speaker 1: which is why did Richard wait until this late which

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Speaker 1: is after actually Harrison was supposed to be back home

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Speaker 1: And then he finally shows up and says, Okay, let's

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Speaker 1: go do some robbery that that doesn't quite make sense

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Speaker 1: to Yeah, there's things about John Perry's story. Again, they

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Speaker 1: just don't quite add up. So John Perry tells Richard

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Speaker 1: to go rob Harrison while he just ambles around in

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Speaker 1: the fields a little bit. I'm not sure what this

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Speaker 1: is about. Maybe he thought Harrison would recognize his voice

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Speaker 1: in the dark or something. I'm not sure. But so

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Speaker 1: he tells his brother to go do the robin and

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Speaker 1: then he comes back and he finds Harrison is on

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Speaker 1: the ground with Richard standing over him, and his mother

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Speaker 1: is standing nearby. So so William Harrison was not dead

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Speaker 1: at this point, but Richard Perry finished him off by

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Speaker 1: strangling him. Uh. And Richard and John carried the body

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Speaker 1: to a nearby cesspool and tossed it in after taking

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Speaker 1: all the money out of the pockets, etcetera. And this

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Speaker 1: was not that far outside of Camden. So John Perry

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Speaker 1: goes back to the house. This is where he runs

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Speaker 1: into that guy Pierce that I was talking about earlier.

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Speaker 1: Runs into Piers just to see it, said earlier and uh.

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Speaker 1: And after that went into the hand house and stayed

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Speaker 1: there till about midnight. But the differences is he had

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Speaker 1: kept Harrison's hat, collar band and comb because after the

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Speaker 1: moon came up, he took him back out on the

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Speaker 1: road a little ways out and dropped him on the road,

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Speaker 1: so it looked like, you know, he had been actually

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Speaker 1: way laid in the cost is somewhere different from where

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Speaker 1: it actually happened. And uh yeah, crime scene staging, right, yeah.

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Speaker 1: And then and then of course he sets off towards

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Speaker 1: Charrington to complete his fishy story. And he also confessed

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Speaker 1: that just the year before, William Harrison's house had been

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Speaker 1: broken into and someone has stolen a hundred forty pounds

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Speaker 1: from it. The prips were never found, and Perry told

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Speaker 1: the Justice of the piece that well, Richard had done

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Speaker 1: it using information that John had given him about where

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Speaker 1: to find the money. Okay, so he fasted up to

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Speaker 1: that too, And so of course Joan, mother Joan, and

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Speaker 1: brother Richard were arrested, and of course the cesspool was

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Speaker 1: dragged and searched for Harrison's body. I don't know if

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Speaker 1: they put a guy in a scuba suit or what

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Speaker 1: to set him down to search the bottom. Yeah, probably,

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Speaker 1: but they didn't. Oh yeah, just not disgusting. But well,

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Speaker 1: they didn't find his body, and they checked every other

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Speaker 1: pool in town, also fish pools or at ponds, or whatever.

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Speaker 1: They found nothing, and then they searched the entire town.

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Speaker 1: There's some ruins of the original estate, the Campdas state

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Speaker 1: and they want to do all that stuff. And so

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Speaker 1: they found no body. But anyway, the rest of the family,

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Speaker 1: Joan and Richard, the mother and the brother, denied all

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Speaker 1: the charges. Of course, they said it was all just bs,

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Speaker 1: which was what you'd expect them to say. John stood

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Speaker 1: by his story. And there was one incriminating piece of

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Speaker 1: physical evidence was which is a ball of blenden tape

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Speaker 1: that was founded on Richard Pairing, and a policeman showed

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Speaker 1: it to John Perry, and John Perry said, oh, yeah, yeah, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's the strain that my brother used to strangle my

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Speaker 1: master with. So that's the only physical evidence they've got. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so they don't have the body, don't they maybe have

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Speaker 1: a murder weapon? And as far as evidence of the burglary, well,

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Speaker 1: Richard had told John after the burglary that he buried

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Speaker 1: the money in this garden and they were just going

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Speaker 1: to leave it there and tell everything cooled down it

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00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:25,240
Speaker 1: was safe to spend it. So it was still buried

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Speaker 1: in the garden. At the ends of this point, right,

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Speaker 1: they went and dug up the garden authorities did they

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00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:33,360
Speaker 1: found They found no money. Yeah, I know. Uh so

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00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:36,560
Speaker 1: John's stories. He's confessional these major crimes. There's no evidence

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Speaker 1: to back up anything he's actually said. And of course

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00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:43,080
Speaker 1: his mother and his brother deny everything. But nonetheless, in

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Speaker 1: September and the following month, after the disappearance of Harris,

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00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:49,960
Speaker 1: and all three of them were indicted for burglary and

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Speaker 1: also for robbery and murder. Yeah, and the judge refused

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00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:56,640
Speaker 1: to try them on the robbery murder charge because the

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Speaker 1: body had not been found and this is like less

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Speaker 1: than a month after he disappeared, and so that he

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Speaker 1: thought it was just not quite right to charge somebody

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Speaker 1: with murder when he could just be off somewhere gallivanting

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00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:11,440
Speaker 1: around the country, right, yeah, yeah, And so so he

303
00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:13,440
Speaker 1: wouldn't charge him on that. But they were still tried

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Speaker 1: for the charge of robbery and they pleaded not guilty.

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00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:19,440
Speaker 1: But then they changed their pleading guilty because this came

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00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:22,000
Speaker 1: after This is where we get you get a little

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00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:24,840
Speaker 1: free English history lesson which I'd sure all British listeners

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00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:28,720
Speaker 1: are gonna love to hear. Yeah, refrained from Yeah, they

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00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:31,600
Speaker 1: haven't heard this before tell me I got everything wrong.

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Speaker 1: But they changed their police to guilty and asked the

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Speaker 1: court to grant them amnesty for the crime because there

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00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:39,000
Speaker 1: was a pardon in the Act of Oblivion of King

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Speaker 1: Charles the Second that had recently come down, and so

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Speaker 1: they got a pardon and that was that charge is dismissed. Uh.

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Speaker 1: In the case you're confused about that, I'll give you

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Speaker 1: a quick background. This happened right after the end of

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Speaker 1: the English Civil War in se Charles the First was

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Speaker 1: beheaded and the monarchy and the House of Lords were abolished.

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Speaker 1: England was declared to be a commonwealth with the more

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Speaker 1: representative form we've got it makes sense. Cromwell and people

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Speaker 1: hated Cromwell. Well, this is before Cromwell. Actually he was

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Speaker 1: like this, yeah, yeah, Cromwell was around. But but the

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Speaker 1: things that he really didn't like with the Protectorate, which

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00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:16,760
Speaker 1: came after the Commonwealth. But the Commonwealth didn't work out

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00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:19,120
Speaker 1: so well. In sixteen fifty three all over Cromwell was

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Speaker 1: declared Lord protector and this period is called the Protectorate,

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Speaker 1: and Cromwell ruled with all the powers of a king,

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Speaker 1: but he was totally not a king. Got it. Totally,

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Speaker 1: not at all, not even close. But it turns out

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Speaker 1: life down the life under the protectorate was more repressive

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Speaker 1: than it had ever been out of the monarchy, almost

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00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:43,200
Speaker 1: like it was a dictatorship. Yeah and so so eventually

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00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:45,800
Speaker 1: Parliament proposed to restore the monarchy, and the offer that

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00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:49,400
Speaker 1: thrown the Prince Charles, son of Charles the first. Oh

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00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:53,040
Speaker 1: like Charles, the one that prince that we have now, yeah,

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00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:56,360
Speaker 1: the same, the same Prince Charles. He looks like I

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00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:58,360
Speaker 1: was going to say, because that Prince Charles is actually

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00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:03,280
Speaker 1: prince under his mom, the Queen. Alright, so different Charles,

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00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:07,679
Speaker 1: different Charles. But yeah, well no, the English made this

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00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:12,160
Speaker 1: confusing by naming all of their same humans, the same people, things,

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00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:14,720
Speaker 1: the same people. It made sense. Shut up, Why, I mean,

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00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:17,760
Speaker 1: why isn't there why is there not a King Javier

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00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:23,880
Speaker 1: or King Man? Well, yeah, or king anyway? Sorry, So,

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00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:27,080
Speaker 1: how does this affect the guilty plea? Well, okay, So,

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00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:30,760
Speaker 1: so when Parliament offered to restore the monarchy and give

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00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:33,159
Speaker 1: him the throne, they made it a condition of his

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00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:35,520
Speaker 1: return that he issued a general pardon for all crimes

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00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:38,359
Speaker 1: committed during the Civil War. The Commonwealth and the protectorate,

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00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:41,520
Speaker 1: and the idea was just kind of a reconciliation, you know,

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00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:45,840
Speaker 1: like you just washing wash the slate clean, like first start. Yeah,

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00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:49,399
Speaker 1: pretty much every crime, every crime except regicide. Okay, So

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00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:51,960
Speaker 1: I could have gone and murdered someone like a bunch

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00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:55,280
Speaker 1: of people probably in the middle of the didn't kill

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Speaker 1: like a king or a prince, and they would have

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00:17:57,720 --> 00:17:59,639
Speaker 1: been like, well, actually it's okay now it would have

356
00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:03,000
Speaker 1: been yeah, because we got a king again, so it's cool. Yeah,

357
00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:06,359
Speaker 1: everybody awesome. Okay, Well I know where I'm going in

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00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:09,040
Speaker 1: my time machine now, I know I know about yeah

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00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:13,600
Speaker 1: six six that's a good time. Yeah. But anyway, that's

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00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:15,800
Speaker 1: how that's why they were able to plead guilty to

361
00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:20,560
Speaker 1: this burglary and get pardoned for the crime because just

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00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:23,960
Speaker 1: under the tag and he had some good lawyers. Okay, no, no,

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00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:25,760
Speaker 1: I don't I don't even know if they had a lawyer.

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00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:27,840
Speaker 1: It might have been the justice himself and said, hey, look,

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00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:30,960
Speaker 1: why don't you spare us all aheadache and just plead guilty. Yeah,

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00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:33,840
Speaker 1: that's probably more likely what happened. So they were guilty,

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00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:37,760
Speaker 1: So they did it. No plead pleading guilty. They all

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00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:41,200
Speaker 1: denied later that they're actually guilty of this crime. Yeah,

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00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:44,159
Speaker 1: John took back all of his confessions. You have to

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00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:46,359
Speaker 1: wonder if maybe John wasn't under a little bit of

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00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:49,320
Speaker 1: dressed by the police, kind of kind of pondered that

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00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:52,680
Speaker 1: maybe he was given the old rubber hose treatment. Perhaps. Um,

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00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:54,960
Speaker 1: but you know, the guilty plea might have made some sense,

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00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:57,600
Speaker 1: and it saved everybody the bother of a trial. It probably,

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00:18:58,000 --> 00:18:59,920
Speaker 1: from their point of view, in a sense, was a

376
00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:02,840
Speaker 1: smart move because it means it meant that the justice

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00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:06,560
Speaker 1: who was sitting on their case was probably more more

378
00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:09,159
Speaker 1: inclined in their favor because he had just saved They

379
00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:12,719
Speaker 1: had just saved him some hassle, you know, so scratch

380
00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:15,040
Speaker 1: my back, I scratched yours kind of Yeah. But but

381
00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:17,159
Speaker 1: it was bad optics with the public because in the

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00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:19,840
Speaker 1: eyes of all the locals who were the future jury

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00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:24,280
Speaker 1: pool for any trials that might happen foreshadowing. Uh, it

384
00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:27,400
Speaker 1: confirmed that the parish they were guilty. Yeah, they were scallowags,

385
00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:30,960
Speaker 1: they were there were nearly wells. Yeah, it confirmed that

386
00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:33,399
Speaker 1: not only had they wanted to rob William Harrison, but

387
00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:38,720
Speaker 1: they actually had robbed him and so and so well necessarily.

388
00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:40,760
Speaker 1: But but it made it easier to believe later on

389
00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:42,359
Speaker 1: down the line that they had way lad him and

390
00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:45,359
Speaker 1: robbed him and murdered him, and eventually they were tried

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00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:48,720
Speaker 1: on those charges. Of course, that didn't happen for until

392
00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:52,440
Speaker 1: the next year, in March sixte By this time, of course,

393
00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:54,520
Speaker 1: there's still no body. But people felt a little more

394
00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:56,560
Speaker 1: comfortable about the situation because it has been like eight

395
00:19:56,600 --> 00:20:02,800
Speaker 1: months a year in a while, and so and no word,

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00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:05,840
Speaker 1: no side of him. And he had a wife, Yeah,

397
00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:07,720
Speaker 1: he had a wife. Yeah. And he had a nice job,

398
00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:10,680
Speaker 1: which he presumably would have he would have probably sent

399
00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:13,080
Speaker 1: a letter to his wife. Yeah, he was him. Yeah,

400
00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:14,920
Speaker 1: I mean in those days, and you know those days

401
00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:17,160
Speaker 1: in the Europe or you know anywhere in America even

402
00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:19,360
Speaker 1: I'm sure a lot of people just just mosied off.

403
00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:21,119
Speaker 1: There are people who are kind of foot loose and

404
00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:25,080
Speaker 1: just mosied off. Yeah. It's a giant convenience. I really

405
00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:27,320
Speaker 1: hate the way things are working right now. And you

406
00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:30,480
Speaker 1: can be better somewhere else. Grass is greener. I can

407
00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:34,320
Speaker 1: just easily leave absolutely, hop on a horse and ride. Yeah. Absolutely.

408
00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:38,959
Speaker 1: But but somebody like him, yeah, I know, I remember, Yeah, Well,

409
00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:44,560
Speaker 1: somebody like Harrison. Yeah, and uh, they all pleaded not guilty.

410
00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:48,359
Speaker 1: That is the Paris John and Joan and Richard. John

411
00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:51,399
Speaker 1: of course said that he recapted his confession, said he

412
00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:54,320
Speaker 1: had been insane and didn't know what he was talking about.

413
00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:56,919
Speaker 1: And again, who knows. I mean, maybe he did have

414
00:20:56,960 --> 00:20:59,440
Speaker 1: some mental issues, even I don't know. Yeah, I mean

415
00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:02,200
Speaker 1: they weren't really diagnosing those at the time, not really

416
00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:05,240
Speaker 1: all that well. And I still kind of believe that

417
00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:08,400
Speaker 1: most likely the police kind of leaned on him hard probably, Yeah,

418
00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:11,359
Speaker 1: but so okay, sorry, I think we were just busy

419
00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:16,040
Speaker 1: kind of like uh laughing. Yeah. To be clear, they're

420
00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:22,920
Speaker 1: being tried for the murder. Yeah, okay, yeah, they were

421
00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:25,840
Speaker 1: the whole burder. Everything is long in the past. It's

422
00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:28,879
Speaker 1: the murder now, it's the robbery and the murder. Uh.

423
00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:31,639
Speaker 1: They were all found guilty. They were all sensed to

424
00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:34,240
Speaker 1: hang and then yeah, I know, and then they don't.

425
00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:35,600
Speaker 1: They didn't do it in those days like we do

426
00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:37,920
Speaker 1: it now in America, where you wait like thirty forty

427
00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:41,200
Speaker 1: years before it actually happens. You know. There was two days, yeah, yeah,

428
00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:45,440
Speaker 1: two days. It's a quick and expedient trial, very execution.

429
00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:47,760
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. Two days after the trial they were strung up.

430
00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:50,840
Speaker 1: This was on the hill outside Camden. Legend has it

431
00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:53,720
Speaker 1: Joan was executed first because some people thought she was

432
00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:56,200
Speaker 1: a witch and that she had cast a spell over

433
00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:59,600
Speaker 1: her sons. So well, she did float yeah, water, so

434
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:02,119
Speaker 1: I guess I don't know if they tried that or not.

435
00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:05,159
Speaker 1: So if she was dead, the spell would be broken

436
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:07,200
Speaker 1: and John and Richard would finally tell the truth and

437
00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:10,800
Speaker 1: they would find out what happened to Harrison's body. For example. Well,

438
00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:13,359
Speaker 1: that didn't work out. They still said they didn't do it,

439
00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:16,200
Speaker 1: and still said they had no idea where the body was, etcetera.

440
00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:19,400
Speaker 1: Even after the mother was dead. It seems like they

441
00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:20,960
Speaker 1: could have. I mean, do you think they would have

442
00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:24,159
Speaker 1: been free if they had been like, she cast a

443
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:26,040
Speaker 1: spell on us? Oh my god, I can't believe it.

444
00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:27,520
Speaker 1: We did it, and we fed his body to the

445
00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:31,159
Speaker 1: pigs and there's no evidence. Yeah, I don't know how

446
00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:32,600
Speaker 1: that would have worked out. You know, they should have

447
00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:33,919
Speaker 1: thought that, I mean, I mean, what the hell do

448
00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:36,720
Speaker 1: you have to lose? Yeah, that's true. I mean they

449
00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:39,080
Speaker 1: would let you go. I would totally if it were me,

450
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:41,240
Speaker 1: and I would I'd just be like looking around, what

451
00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:43,440
Speaker 1: am I doing here? Oh? My god, what where else

452
00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:46,840
Speaker 1: is going on? Oh? My god, my mother's dead? What happened?

453
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:55,639
Speaker 1: Yea dead for years? Yeah, my mother died in childbirth. Yes, yeah,

454
00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:59,320
Speaker 1: that's a good one. So um yeah. Anyway, so if

455
00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:00,520
Speaker 1: you go back in time to get to give these

456
00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:05,240
Speaker 1: guys a little coaching, OK, yeah, that would when probably yeah? Yeah.

457
00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:10,800
Speaker 1: They So they also were hung with Richard next and

458
00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:15,840
Speaker 1: then John the last. Yeah hanged. Yeah. So that was

459
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:19,840
Speaker 1: the end of it. Harrison was presumed murder and gone

460
00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:23,080
Speaker 1: his killers that had had been killed, and they were executed,

461
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:25,280
Speaker 1: I guess as a more appropriate words. So okay, So

462
00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:28,919
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Uh, I guess I'm confused about the mystery

463
00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:31,400
Speaker 1: is here because it sounds like this guy got murdered.

464
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:33,680
Speaker 1: Granted they didn't find his body, so is that the thing?

465
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:36,520
Speaker 1: Or is it because they denied they thought, they said

466
00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:42,119
Speaker 1: they were innocent until the end? Is that they so? Mean? Yeah?

467
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:47,200
Speaker 1: Well our story is not quite over actually, okay, because

468
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:52,160
Speaker 1: the following year, late summer sixteen sixty two. Uh, guess

469
00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:55,000
Speaker 1: who guess who comes back to town William Harrison. What

470
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:01,400
Speaker 1: does he say is going on? Yeah? Because obviously everybody's

471
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:03,760
Speaker 1: curious to know, really curious to know just where the

472
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:08,160
Speaker 1: hell he'd been, because after all, I mean, but yeah,

473
00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:11,119
Speaker 1: but three people are dead now. But he actually had

474
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:13,960
Speaker 1: a good excuse. He had been unavoidably detained, and he

475
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:15,840
Speaker 1: put the whole story into writing, which is by the

476
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:19,280
Speaker 1: way out there. You can find it if you look around. Uh,

477
00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:22,040
Speaker 1: and it's not made up. It's actually part of the

478
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:26,040
Speaker 1: historical record. And just i'll just it's a long document,

479
00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:29,640
Speaker 1: so i'll just paraphrase and here repletely because it's quite lengthy. Yeah.

480
00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:33,160
Speaker 1: So when he sat out that day August sixteen, sixteen sixty,

481
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:36,399
Speaker 1: he was accosted by three men on horseback on the

482
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:38,880
Speaker 1: road who stabbed him with the sword and then grabbed

483
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:40,960
Speaker 1: him and put him on the back of one of

484
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:43,520
Speaker 1: their horses and headed off to the east. And they

485
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 1: rode for about three days, staying the night in various

486
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:49,600
Speaker 1: isolated places, and we'll finally wind up on the coast

487
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:52,399
Speaker 1: on the English Channel in a town called Deal, was

488
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:54,320
Speaker 1: still exists today, by the way. It's about eight miles

489
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:59,280
Speaker 1: northeast of Dover. And at Deal, he couldn't really tell

490
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:01,440
Speaker 1: for sure, but it looked like it was a negotiation,

491
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:03,960
Speaker 1: and he believes he was sold for seven pounds as

492
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:06,919
Speaker 1: a slave, apparently, so he was taken out to a

493
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:09,200
Speaker 1: ship off the right, off the coast. They're put on

494
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:11,320
Speaker 1: the ship along with a lot of other people in

495
00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:14,639
Speaker 1: a similar situation as him, and then he estimates he

496
00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:17,359
Speaker 1: spent about six weeks on the ship, just sailing around

497
00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:18,600
Speaker 1: the seat. I don't know where they were going, because

498
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:23,719
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess around they were sailing towards the maniature.

499
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:26,720
Speaker 1: Seems like six weeks would have been plenty of time

500
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:28,680
Speaker 1: to get you anywhere you wanted to go, anywhere in

501
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:30,840
Speaker 1: the world. Yeah, really, But anyway, they were on that

502
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:32,639
Speaker 1: They were on the ship for about six weeks, and

503
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:36,320
Speaker 1: then one day they came into contact with three Turkish ships.

504
00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:38,719
Speaker 1: It's not clear if these were pirate ships or if

505
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:41,920
Speaker 1: they were just slavers or what, but he and all

506
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:44,840
Speaker 1: the passengers who have fellow slaves, I guess, were transferred

507
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,840
Speaker 1: across to one of the Turkish ships and they spent

508
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:50,800
Speaker 1: an undetermined amount of time on that ship before they

509
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 1: made landfall, which it turns out was in Smyrnatt, Turkey,

510
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:56,520
Speaker 1: which is where modern day is Mayor and now is

511
00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 1: now And so he was sold. It was it was

512
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,040
Speaker 1: as some sort of a slave market. He was sold

513
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:05,760
Speaker 1: at this this very old doctor who happened to speak

514
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:09,159
Speaker 1: a little English, and basically the doctor, I don't know

515
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:11,160
Speaker 1: how much he paid for him, but he wanted him

516
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:13,920
Speaker 1: to run his distillery. So that's what he did. For

517
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 1: over a year. He ran this old guy's distillery and

518
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:20,560
Speaker 1: the old guy was kindly gave him this nice silver

519
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 1: bowl to use for drinking or drinking, eating soup or whatever.

520
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:27,879
Speaker 1: And that was basically his his only thing, his only possession.

521
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 1: And uh, after about he says, about a year and

522
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:36,520
Speaker 1: three quarters, the old guy, his master died, and so

523
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:40,480
Speaker 1: Harrison made a break for freedom and lifted to the

524
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:43,920
Speaker 1: port at Smyrna and tried to try to put passage

525
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:45,800
Speaker 1: on a ship. He managed to get on a ship

526
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:48,879
Speaker 1: that was going to Lisbon, Portugal and return for his

527
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:52,040
Speaker 1: silver bowl. So thank god for the silver bowl, right, yeah,

528
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:55,159
Speaker 1: I mean really, uh so he traded that for passage

529
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:58,080
Speaker 1: to Lisbon. Once he got into Lisbon, he was totally

530
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 1: at louci as he had nothing, I mean, not a penny,

531
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:03,679
Speaker 1: and but he was hanging out and he was this

532
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:05,600
Speaker 1: guy walks up to him and starts talking to him.

533
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 1: When it turns out he's an Englishman. And so this guy,

534
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,240
Speaker 1: you know, here's a sad story, and he takes pity

535
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:14,560
Speaker 1: on him, and so he puts him up, you know,

536
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:17,360
Speaker 1: gives him a place to stay temporarily, and and then

537
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 1: finds him passage on a ship to Dover back in England. Uh.

538
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 1: And then before he goes, gives him some wine and

539
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:26,560
Speaker 1: some brandy for the road and and a little money

540
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:28,200
Speaker 1: and sends him on his way. And so he made

541
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:31,040
Speaker 1: it back to England. We never found out the name

542
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:34,760
Speaker 1: of this guy. But that's a that's quite a story. Yeah,

543
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:38,360
Speaker 1: that's an interesting story, don't you think It's a way

544
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 1: to put it. That's not the way I would have

545
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:42,639
Speaker 1: put it, but that's a nice way to put it. Yeah,

546
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:46,120
Speaker 1: you know, but but it accounts for a lot. I mean,

547
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:49,119
Speaker 1: it's it's unfortunate that three people were killed, but you know,

548
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:51,720
Speaker 1: what could he do? He was enslaved back in Turkey,

549
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:53,879
Speaker 1: so you know, and so hey, what's it. What's the

550
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:56,840
Speaker 1: guy gonna do? Right? And and well that's it. It's

551
00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:00,800
Speaker 1: like the story actually was not that well received a

552
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:03,240
Speaker 1: lot of people. Frankly, I don't know if anybody believed it.

553
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:08,080
Speaker 1: I don't think anybody and people have been wondering ever since,

554
00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:11,200
Speaker 1: and that's why this story is usually called the Camden Wonder.

555
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:14,879
Speaker 1: That is the official name, because it makes everybody wonder

556
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:18,119
Speaker 1: what the hell happened? Obviously, the story is a bit

557
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:21,200
Speaker 1: questionable about slavery and everything. So the mystery is here,

558
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:24,239
Speaker 1: what really happened to William Harrison? Where did he go?

559
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:28,000
Speaker 1: His hat, comb and bloody shirt color were really found

560
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:30,440
Speaker 1: in the road for real? And so did they fall

561
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,400
Speaker 1: off during his subduction, assuming his story was real, or

562
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:36,280
Speaker 1: did Harrison plant them there to fake his own death?

563
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:38,640
Speaker 1: And what the hell was Perry doing? What? Then? Why

564
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:41,480
Speaker 1: the hell did Perry claim he planted them there? Yeah? Yeah,

565
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:43,880
Speaker 1: I mean if Harrison did fake his death and run

566
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 1: off to start a new life, then where did he go,

567
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:49,200
Speaker 1: why did he do it well? And why the hell

568
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 1: did he come back? And also, of course I've already

569
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:53,560
Speaker 1: said this, but why did John Perry confess to a

570
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 1: murder that never happened? This is so that's why this

571
00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 1: is why it's called the Wonder because it's freaking there's

572
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:04,440
Speaker 1: lots of wondering. Yeah, and I left out a few

573
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:07,880
Speaker 1: details here. I'll just mention him. Rumor has it Harrison's

574
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:10,560
Speaker 1: wife committed suicide by hanging right after he came back.

575
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 1: If that happened, we don't. We don't know for sure

576
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:16,240
Speaker 1: that that happened. But and like any any one of

577
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:18,360
Speaker 1: these things, I mean, certain things do get added to

578
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:21,400
Speaker 1: the story. Another one was at in her possessions after

579
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:24,240
Speaker 1: she died. There was a letter from Harris and William

580
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 1: Harrison found in her possessions that was dated after his disappearance. Again,

581
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:31,280
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's true or not, but if

582
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 1: if those things are true, then it certainly adds to

583
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 1: the intrigue. Don't you think how he comes back and

584
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 1: she killed herself. Yeah, and by the way, I want

585
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 1: to get a hat tip to a guy named Peter Clifford. Well,

586
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:44,240
Speaker 1: we will link to his website, but this is a

587
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 1: guy who is, oh yeah, he's done some serious historical

588
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:50,480
Speaker 1: research on this mystery. I mean, he's he's definitely gotten

589
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:52,160
Speaker 1: down in the weeds. He's not a tinfoil hat guy

590
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:54,840
Speaker 1: at all. A good website. But hat tip to Peter.

591
00:29:54,960 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 1: Thank you, Peter. Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, good point. Uh So, yeah,

592
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 1: that's our mystery. What the hell really happened? So it's now,

593
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:08,560
Speaker 1: as you know, time for the series. But first let's

594
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:15,080
Speaker 1: take a break. You look into your wardrobe and realize,

595
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 1: I think somebody else bottle these clothes for me. Is

596
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:20,600
Speaker 1: my closet haunted? Man, You have to get rid of

597
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:23,400
Speaker 1: all these clothes and get new ones. The good news

598
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:25,880
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599
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601
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602
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603
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610
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613
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614
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615
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619
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:36,040
Speaker 1: we're back. So let's tell in a series here. Um first, oh,

620
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:38,960
Speaker 1: let's start from the top. Here. Here's a theory, the

621
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 1: new the return William Harrison wasn't impostor? Oh like Bobby

622
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:47,320
Speaker 1: what's his name? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's been

623
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 1: a bunch of them. Who's that guy that was in that?

624
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:52,040
Speaker 1: Was that? Was that Bobby Dunbar? Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

625
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 1: something like that. Uh, it's it's happened. I mean, there's

626
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 1: been a lot of stories like that. Usually it's a

627
00:31:57,240 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 1: little kid that's brought back where'd added with his family

628
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 1: and if the kids spirited age not a seventy year

629
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:05,000
Speaker 1: old man. Yeah, and his wife was of course still alive,

630
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 1: you know, at least it's long enough to hang herself. Okay,

631
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:10,200
Speaker 1: if you believe that story. So I don't really buy

632
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:13,000
Speaker 1: this one, you know, of course, unless maybe old Harrison

633
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:15,720
Speaker 1: had a twin somewhere. Even then, is this an actual

634
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:20,080
Speaker 1: theory out there that anytime there's something like this happens,

635
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:23,080
Speaker 1: you know where you know, there's at least somebody's gonna

636
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 1: be saying, well, could he be an impostor? Yeah, I

637
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:28,120
Speaker 1: have a theory about this. Actually, um, it was that

638
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 1: they never found the body, but it was really well preserved,

639
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 1: and then the ghost of one of the Perry brothers

640
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 1: came back and inhabited the body and just took over

641
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 1: his just just a mess with people's heads. Yeah, yeah,

642
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:41,600
Speaker 1: I like the idea. Wow, that's not witchy at all.

643
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 1: It was Joan, You're right, it was could have been Joan.

644
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 1: Joan actually did that one of the boys. Could have

645
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 1: been a witch you don't know? Yeah, yeah, sorry, which

646
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:56,000
Speaker 1: is yeah, I don't think it was. I don't think

647
00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:58,200
Speaker 1: it was Joan and her witchery because she probably would

648
00:32:58,240 --> 00:32:59,960
Speaker 1: have just messed with everybody's heads a lot. More like,

649
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 1: isn't it really a shame that he strung those three

650
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 1: people up just over me, silly old meat? Isn't it

651
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:07,719
Speaker 1: a shame? Just? I mean, he was constantly messing. As

652
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 1: far as I know, that didn't happen because nobody, nobody

653
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 1: shot him. Well, next sory, Well, Harrison really was kidnapped

654
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 1: and enslaved, which totally explains everything. I mean, you got

655
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:22,880
Speaker 1: to admit, you know, but even at the time, a

656
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 1: lot of people find this found the story kind of

657
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 1: hard to swallow because why the hell would anybody a

658
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:30,320
Speaker 1: kidnap him. He was seventy years old, not exactly you know,

659
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 1: prime material for the slave market. He's not exactly on

660
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:37,760
Speaker 1: the coastline where he's an easy nabbing distance. Well, he's

661
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:40,520
Speaker 1: from from where he was. He was like a good

662
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 1: hundred miles at least, if not more, from the town

663
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:45,320
Speaker 1: of Deal, And of course, with the roads in those days,

664
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:47,760
Speaker 1: it was not a straight shot so much more than

665
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:50,400
Speaker 1: that on hors back. A lot of England is a

666
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:53,600
Speaker 1: hundred miles away from the coast. Yeah, yeah, I mean

667
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 1: there was a lot of slavers. There's a lot of

668
00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 1: There were actually ships raiding the English coast and grabbing slaves.

669
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:03,120
Speaker 1: It slavery was totally a thing, but not that far inland. No,

670
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:07,280
Speaker 1: It's definitely, yeah, and so and so that's that's one

671
00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:11,640
Speaker 1: reason to wonder about this. Uh. It was also you know,

672
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 1: another part of his story I really didn't like is

673
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:16,200
Speaker 1: he was he had this guy who befriended him in

674
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 1: Lisbon and really basically saved him. I mean, you know,

675
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:20,920
Speaker 1: took care of him and got him got a passage

676
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:23,279
Speaker 1: on a ship and gave him money and all. He

677
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:27,279
Speaker 1: never said who the guy was. That's weird. Yeah, I mean,

678
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:30,279
Speaker 1: I just think it's weird, Like seventies seventy is pretty

679
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 1: old for this time to be enslaved. Just like for humans,

680
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:38,040
Speaker 1: material you're not a good thing. You mean, you could

681
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 1: catch sick and die immediately at the drop of a hat.

682
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:45,759
Speaker 1: Why would anybody invest any money in somebody at that age? Yeah,

683
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 1: I know, so the whole idea for that is, the

684
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:51,239
Speaker 1: whole idea is like ludicrous, and a lot of people

685
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:54,360
Speaker 1: at that time felt the same way. But you know,

686
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:56,759
Speaker 1: he had to invent something though, because supposing he did

687
00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:58,479
Speaker 1: to scan with the red money and want to shack

688
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:01,560
Speaker 1: up with his girlfriend a few counties over, uh, he

689
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:03,359
Speaker 1: would have had a lot to answer for because three

690
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:06,520
Speaker 1: people had been killed over this whole deal. So he

691
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:09,320
Speaker 1: had to come up with some sort of a story. Um,

692
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:11,840
Speaker 1: And so you know, he made up a story that

693
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 1: you know, accounted for everything. But frankly, I think he

694
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:18,760
Speaker 1: did make this story up. It can't possibly be true.

695
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:21,239
Speaker 1: I mean, I just don't think so. I don't think

696
00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:24,360
Speaker 1: that that's a possibility. Slavers coming in a hundred miles

697
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:28,000
Speaker 1: from the coastline and then stealing a man who is

698
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:31,600
Speaker 1: going to cost them more to keep alive and put

699
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:34,680
Speaker 1: on the auction block, then he's going to fetch on

700
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:38,880
Speaker 1: the auction block does not make any sense. It really doesn't.

701
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:42,480
Speaker 1: Although there is there is one possibility that there is

702
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 1: a possibility, and that is that William Harrison's son Edward,

703
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:50,080
Speaker 1: actually stayed the abduction because he wanted his father out

704
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:52,120
Speaker 1: of the way, because he wanted his dad's job as

705
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:55,560
Speaker 1: steward of the viccounts as is a state, because that

706
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:57,279
Speaker 1: was a nice job and he felt like he would

707
00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:01,200
Speaker 1: inherit the job if if his dad disappeared. So yeah,

708
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:03,800
Speaker 1: I don't I don't know. There's there's actually no record

709
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 1: that he did he if he did, he didn't do

710
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:07,680
Speaker 1: it for very long, because I know there was there

711
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:10,919
Speaker 1: is a record of another steward who's started the job

712
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 1: no later than like sixteen sixty five. Yeah, it just

713
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:17,239
Speaker 1: kind of seems like the Viscountess would be like, but

714
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:19,399
Speaker 1: I don't know, this is another guy I trust Yeah,

715
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 1: it could be. Wouldn't just be like, oh, yes, the

716
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:23,640
Speaker 1: son of course he will do it. Yeah, the sun

717
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:26,880
Speaker 1: does not necessarily, particularly if if he got murdered or

718
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:29,560
Speaker 1: disappeared in some weird circumstance, right, and then the sound

719
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:31,759
Speaker 1: the sound of course not being totally heartless, he doesn't

720
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:33,479
Speaker 1: want his dad killed, so he just has these guys

721
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:35,920
Speaker 1: have ducked to him and sell him into slavery and stuff.

722
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:41,520
Speaker 1: He doesn't kill people at all to get dead out

723
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:44,800
Speaker 1: of the way. Totally healthy experience. Actually, actually, especially a

724
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:46,640
Speaker 1: seven years old, he was lucky he didn't die on

725
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:49,640
Speaker 1: the ship. Yeah, if he was actually, if he was

726
00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:51,759
Speaker 1: actually on a ship, if he was actually on a ship,

727
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:54,160
Speaker 1: because I mean a lot of people didn't survive sea voyages.

728
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:57,680
Speaker 1: Frankly at seventy, kind of shocked he survived walking to

729
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:01,080
Speaker 1: a different town all the time. And saying, to be clear,

730
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 1: I'm not saying seventy now is insanely old. My parents

731
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:08,240
Speaker 1: are almost seventy. I'm sorry mom and dad for telling

732
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:11,760
Speaker 1: everybody that, But there, I mean, seventy is like nothing

733
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:17,120
Speaker 1: four hundred years ago. Seventy was kind of like it

734
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:19,799
Speaker 1: was incredibly old back in those days. Yeah, I mean

735
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:22,120
Speaker 1: most people died about what age thirty five. I'm sure

736
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:23,879
Speaker 1: we're going to get a lot of emails where people

737
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:25,680
Speaker 1: are like, it wasn't that old. Calm down, But it

738
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:28,880
Speaker 1: was calmed down. I think the median age was forty

739
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:33,600
Speaker 1: five to fifty was about the average length that you

740
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:39,040
Speaker 1: could expect to live and die normally, you know, barring

741
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:43,400
Speaker 1: any accidents or diseases or whatnot. Yeah, he was, he

742
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:46,080
Speaker 1: was well outside of the bell curve. Yeah. Yeah, and

743
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 1: he actually he didn't die until sixteen seventy two, so

744
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:52,680
Speaker 1: he lived to be eighty two years old. He was

745
00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 1: even farther off of the Builker. This is why you

746
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:57,359
Speaker 1: don't great on the Bilker, because guys like this throw

747
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 1: it off. So the theory is that his son arranges

748
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:06,080
Speaker 1: his abduction so he can take his job, which which

749
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:08,960
Speaker 1: would actually okay, so that makes sense of this whole

750
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:10,759
Speaker 1: thing you're saying. Why would they take this guy how

751
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:13,200
Speaker 1: to twenty miles inland and take them all the way

752
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:17,520
Speaker 1: to the coast. Well, it was a special order. Yeah,

753
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:22,400
Speaker 1: and so that was yeah, I know, special order. But

754
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:24,440
Speaker 1: I'm sorry I have to pause for a second. Did

755
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:31,239
Speaker 1: you say it's bunk terrific. Yes, sorry, yeah it is. Yeah.

756
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:32,879
Speaker 1: The only problem I have with this series it would

757
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:36,600
Speaker 1: have been really expensive to arrange this whole thing. Yes,

758
00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:39,080
Speaker 1: this co conspirators, the three guys on horseback to name

759
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:42,920
Speaker 1: it just three would never blabbed, which is really helpful,

760
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:45,759
Speaker 1: especially after this. This actual story actually got a fair

761
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:49,759
Speaker 1: amount of circulation. It was a big story. I mean, yeah,

762
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 1: I was gonna say if they were slavers that kind

763
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:54,319
Speaker 1: of were in the coast or even like in the

764
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:57,279
Speaker 1: Mediterranean most of the time, if I were hiring someone

765
00:38:57,320 --> 00:38:59,839
Speaker 1: to abduct one of you guys, for instance, it would

766
00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:02,640
Speaker 1: not be somebody who lives locally. So, by the way,

767
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:04,840
Speaker 1: let me give you my new address. It's totally different

768
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:06,960
Speaker 1: than my old address. I don't believe you try to

769
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 1: hire somebody out. Maybe I'll just give him both of

770
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 1: them the tunnel under my house. That's where I'm living now, Okay,

771
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:14,200
Speaker 1: nice safe place to live. I don't blame you. I'm

772
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:16,759
Speaker 1: gonna get me one of them. Yeah, oh where where

773
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:20,680
Speaker 1: we Oh? Yeah, Edward Harrison had his father affected. The

774
00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:22,359
Speaker 1: problem I have with this serious It would have been

775
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:24,799
Speaker 1: so much easier just to poison him, you know, really,

776
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:26,839
Speaker 1: because the guy just I mean, just knock him off.

777
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:28,560
Speaker 1: As we just said, the guy was seven years old.

778
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:30,439
Speaker 1: If you poisoned him and he just keeled over and died,

779
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 1: nobody would think. Nobody would think twice. Yeah, seriously, not

780
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:37,080
Speaker 1: at all. They wouldn't have been any question, was m Yeah,

781
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 1: stack of chloroform or arsenic I don't know. Even then.

782
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:42,480
Speaker 1: Apparently you can just pump it into someone's stomach and

783
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:48,640
Speaker 1: nobody cares down their throat. Alright, so you guys, what

784
00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:54,400
Speaker 1: do you think do you want to do anymore on Edward?

785
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:59,280
Speaker 1: All right, let's move on. Next theory Harrison William Harrison

786
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:01,920
Speaker 1: faked his I took the rent money that he collected

787
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:03,920
Speaker 1: that day and ran off to start a new life.

788
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:07,440
Speaker 1: What do you guys would Actually, this is my theory,

789
00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:10,359
Speaker 1: This is my preferred thing. Actually, it actually makes more

790
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:12,960
Speaker 1: sense than the last three that we talked about. It

791
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:15,759
Speaker 1: actually makes more sense than all of the theories that

792
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:18,880
Speaker 1: you have in this text that we're looking at, because listen,

793
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:22,920
Speaker 1: this old man knows how much money he collects on

794
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:25,960
Speaker 1: a regular basis. He's been doing it for a long time,

795
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:30,360
Speaker 1: and he probably is sick and tired of it all.

796
00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:32,600
Speaker 1: And there have been days where I was like, you

797
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:35,360
Speaker 1: know what, if I came into a couple of thousand

798
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:39,680
Speaker 1: bucks in bonus cash, I might just walk I'm your wife,

799
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:44,919
Speaker 1: that fine cheos is that I can see a guy

800
00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:47,120
Speaker 1: in this day and age to be like, oh my god,

801
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:51,520
Speaker 1: I can have four hundred pounds. I could live like

802
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:55,520
Speaker 1: a king forever on four hundred pounds, not realizing that

803
00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:58,680
Speaker 1: it's only going to actually last him a year. But

804
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:03,600
Speaker 1: he's likely I've only got a couple of years to live.

805
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:05,279
Speaker 1: I'm going to go off and do something fun. I

806
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:07,680
Speaker 1: would go back on forth, back and forth on that

807
00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:10,200
Speaker 1: because it kind of feels like to me, his job

808
00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:14,719
Speaker 1: is to collect taxes. He probably gets paid. I would

809
00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:17,279
Speaker 1: assume that he gets paid more than the taxes are,

810
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 1: or at least a fair wage enough to incentivize him

811
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 1: not to steal the taxes. Right, Well, there's that whole

812
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:27,040
Speaker 1: beheading thing. Well, I mean I think that I I

813
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:29,400
Speaker 1: don't know, I'm totally talking out of my butt right

814
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:32,760
Speaker 1: now to be totally honest with everybody, But I would

815
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 1: just think that he would know the actual value of

816
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:37,759
Speaker 1: the money that he had. You know what I mean,

817
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:41,520
Speaker 1: where you would want your tax collector to be educated

818
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:46,520
Speaker 1: on how far four pounds actually goes, or give him

819
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:50,120
Speaker 1: be paying him an annual salary that is close enough

820
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:52,719
Speaker 1: or halfway. I know, I see that you are mad

821
00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:55,120
Speaker 1: about this. It just makes sense. It's to me, it

822
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:58,120
Speaker 1: makes sense that you would pay that person that amount

823
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:01,280
Speaker 1: of money or help them understand a little quote unquote.

824
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:03,759
Speaker 1: It is just because you don't want them taking off

825
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:06,480
Speaker 1: with it. Joe, I have a question. Was this his

826
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:09,799
Speaker 1: only duty? No? Actually, as stewart, he had all kinds

827
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:12,160
Speaker 1: of other duties, and so I don't know why he

828
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:14,399
Speaker 1: was just being the regular. So this was not the

829
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:18,320
Speaker 1: sole thing that he would do. So therefore, I don't

830
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:22,360
Speaker 1: believe that he would have been educated in that financial

831
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:26,000
Speaker 1: background that you're you're implying there. I think that it

832
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:30,080
Speaker 1: was a position that he had earned the trust of

833
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:35,040
Speaker 1: his employer enough to be given it. I mean, really,

834
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:39,279
Speaker 1: all you need for that job is to prove that

835
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:43,520
Speaker 1: you don't steal. Can you read? Can you know how

836
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:46,040
Speaker 1: much is written on the ledger that they owe? And

837
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:50,120
Speaker 1: can you come back with it to this single pence? Yes?

838
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:53,120
Speaker 1: Job done? How long? But how long had he been

839
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:55,840
Speaker 1: doing this for? Probably a long time? Yeah, Well I

840
00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:58,480
Speaker 1: don't know, Yeah, I mean, he's been doing the job

841
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:01,480
Speaker 1: I understand he's been doing for decades. Yeah. And by

842
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:04,640
Speaker 1: the way, his job was not just tax collector. He

843
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:08,120
Speaker 1: was managing the estate. He had a managerial job. So

844
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:11,040
Speaker 1: that's my thing is that if it's a managerial a

845
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:13,280
Speaker 1: middle manager, and if we all, if we know anything,

846
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:17,279
Speaker 1: middle managers get bored. It's just always want to take

847
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:20,040
Speaker 1: it and run. I just think it's like a weird

848
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:24,319
Speaker 1: time and he should have known that four pounds isn't

849
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:27,120
Speaker 1: going to get him. Well, actually, it's not a weird timing.

850
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:30,600
Speaker 1: It's a perfect timing because here's the thing. For the

851
00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:36,080
Speaker 1: last what eleven twelve years, the crown has been in turmoil.

852
00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:40,000
Speaker 1: Nobody knows what's gonna go on on and oh look

853
00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:42,960
Speaker 1: now they brought back Charles the Second and it's all

854
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:45,439
Speaker 1: gonna be p g Keene. Except that's what they said

855
00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:48,440
Speaker 1: when the last guy came on, and look what a

856
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:52,479
Speaker 1: crap show that turned into you know what, I'm out

857
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:55,239
Speaker 1: of here. I mean, listen, you know as well as

858
00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:58,320
Speaker 1: I do that about a year ago when an election

859
00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:02,520
Speaker 1: happened and all those people said that's it. We're we're

860
00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:05,479
Speaker 1: gonna be expatriots, We're gonna leave the country. We're gonna

861
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:08,279
Speaker 1: live on our money in some other place because it's

862
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 1: gonna be way better. And then they didn't do it.

863
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:12,920
Speaker 1: But this guy may have had the same thought of,

864
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:16,160
Speaker 1: you know what, it's just gonna be one more of

865
00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:19,239
Speaker 1: the same with a new paint job, and I've seen

866
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:22,640
Speaker 1: it before and I am out before it all burns down.

867
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:25,840
Speaker 1: I believe that Harrison was a royalist, so he was like,

868
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:29,439
Speaker 1: um so something. In other words, his side one, yeah,

869
00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:32,359
Speaker 1: and that's what he is. But he may have been

870
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:34,800
Speaker 1: like he may not have thought that Charles the second

871
00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:37,759
Speaker 1: was the man for the job. Maybe he thought he

872
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:40,400
Speaker 1: wouldn't last. But but here's where the restoration Actually my

873
00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:43,200
Speaker 1: factor into this is that and nobody actually knows the

874
00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:46,040
Speaker 1: answer to this, and that is that all these all

875
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:49,440
Speaker 1: these these people with these lands that they were collecting

876
00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:53,880
Speaker 1: rent when the Commonwealth went in and then protector essentially

877
00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:57,640
Speaker 1: because the whole royalty thing kind of just went a way. Uh,

878
00:44:57,880 --> 00:44:59,920
Speaker 1: they no longer were able to collect rents on their

879
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:04,200
Speaker 1: lands extended period. And so one of the questions here

880
00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:06,720
Speaker 1: is when it's time to go out and collect the rent?

881
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:16,160
Speaker 1: Uh do these people ohe back rent for all those years. Yeah,

882
00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:18,880
Speaker 1: and so is that the case, And so in that

883
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:20,799
Speaker 1: case that he could have been yes, he would take

884
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:23,080
Speaker 1: all that he could have actually hauled, had quite a

885
00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:25,279
Speaker 1: bit of money. And of course the problem with that

886
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:28,480
Speaker 1: is if you collected that amount of money, and he

887
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:31,160
Speaker 1: would never dare to show his face back in Camden

888
00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:36,000
Speaker 1: ever again, unless unless he well, I guess that's true. Yeah,

889
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:39,480
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, well, unless he knew that these

890
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:42,920
Speaker 1: people had been murdered, had been not murdered, but had

891
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:45,960
Speaker 1: been executed for his murder. But I guess it really

892
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:49,400
Speaker 1: makes more sense if they had been executed for his robbery,

893
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:51,560
Speaker 1: and he could come back and say I was so,

894
00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:53,279
Speaker 1: I was robbed and I was so scared and I

895
00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:55,640
Speaker 1: ran away. I played dead. I played dead. They thought

896
00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:57,440
Speaker 1: they killed but it too me in a cesspool. But

897
00:45:57,480 --> 00:45:59,880
Speaker 1: then after they left, I climbed back out. I got better.

898
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:03,919
Speaker 1: I want to friends. Yeah, okay, so you're right, Yeah

899
00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:06,719
Speaker 1: I agree, and it's but this is this is my

900
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:09,279
Speaker 1: favorite of the one. But again we don't know it.

901
00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:13,440
Speaker 1: Probably realistically speaking, even if obviously they would have loved

902
00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:16,800
Speaker 1: to have collected all of that back run, realistically speaking,

903
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:20,640
Speaker 1: they couldn't. They could not have held him accountable for

904
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:23,400
Speaker 1: ten or twelve years or worth of back rent. You

905
00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:25,960
Speaker 1: were talking like one of the monarchy was abolished in

906
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:32,800
Speaker 1: sixteen forty nine. That's know that that would bankrupt the

907
00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:36,680
Speaker 1: entire country. They knew they couldn't go that just they

908
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:40,520
Speaker 1: couldn't gouge too hard. But you know, maybe just the

909
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:42,640
Speaker 1: regular hall from rents was it would have been enough

910
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:45,120
Speaker 1: to tempt him into leaving. I don't know, or I

911
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:48,319
Speaker 1: just don't know. Um, you know. And and of course

912
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:50,160
Speaker 1: the other thing about it is that you know, he

913
00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:53,279
Speaker 1: had to have heard what happened in his absence. I mean,

914
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:56,680
Speaker 1: three people get executed for you being gone, I don't know.

915
00:46:56,920 --> 00:47:00,040
Speaker 1: I don't know. He would have had to probably. I

916
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:04,879
Speaker 1: think this was very slow when there is no electronic communication.

917
00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:07,320
Speaker 1: I just think it would have taken a lot of moxie,

918
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:10,239
Speaker 1: a lot of chefs pop excuse me for him to

919
00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:13,040
Speaker 1: come back, and that's three people have been killed. I

920
00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:15,839
Speaker 1: suppose maybe you're right, maybe he didn't know that three

921
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:19,120
Speaker 1: people have been executed. Yeah, I mean yeah, I really

922
00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:23,560
Speaker 1: feel like he sauntered into town like, hey I'm back, everybody,

923
00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:28,839
Speaker 1: I got this great story. People were oh hell um

924
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:34,680
Speaker 1: um um, and then it happened to it was the worst. Yeah,

925
00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:37,799
Speaker 1: and then I'm going to add the details and later. Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,

926
00:47:38,120 --> 00:47:40,360
Speaker 1: I gonna go see my wife, who's gonna mysteriously hang herself.

927
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:44,560
Speaker 1: Maybe that's why his wife hung herself. She didn't he

928
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:48,359
Speaker 1: killed her. I mean it's possible, Yeah, it could have been.

929
00:47:49,160 --> 00:47:51,480
Speaker 1: So anyway, this is, as I say, so far, my

930
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:55,040
Speaker 1: favorite theory. But it's got its issues too. Yeah. But

931
00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:57,160
Speaker 1: again that's why they call this the wonder. There is

932
00:47:57,200 --> 00:48:00,200
Speaker 1: no clear wondering. We should just called this podcast asked

933
00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:05,560
Speaker 1: the wonder. Yeah, there's a wonder thing out there that's

934
00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:09,400
Speaker 1: already sort of taking it. We've been I wonder. It

935
00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:13,560
Speaker 1: sounds a little too now familiar. Yeah yeah, screw that

936
00:48:14,239 --> 00:48:20,960
Speaker 1: all right. Series here shall be called Thinking Sideways. Yeah, well,

937
00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:23,120
Speaker 1: we got another series or two here, so let's get

938
00:48:23,160 --> 00:48:27,319
Speaker 1: on this one. Was that it's been hypothesized by historians

939
00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:32,360
Speaker 1: and and responsible people, not just your tinto types. But yeah, exactly,

940
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:35,319
Speaker 1: it's been hypothesized that he was perhaps on some sort

941
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:38,319
Speaker 1: of a secret mission, and like, for example, one would

942
00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:44,480
Speaker 1: be well, his employers the so so the Viscountess Camden

943
00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:48,880
Speaker 1: knows Julianna Noel her her sons or Baptist noell Uh

944
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:52,400
Speaker 1: that was his name was bast Yeah, I know, I know,

945
00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:58,560
Speaker 1: weird Baptiste. No, probably Baptist bad Spanish, it's terrible name,

946
00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:04,239
Speaker 1: but maybe name in them that Spish. Anyway, it was Boptist.

947
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:06,800
Speaker 1: But any way, Baptist was known to be a party

948
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:10,440
Speaker 1: boy who apparently fathered a bunch of illegitimate children. So

949
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:14,080
Speaker 1: the thinking along this lane goes maybe, because as I said,

950
00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:16,959
Speaker 1: the restoration happened, these people, a lot of their lands

951
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:18,960
Speaker 1: were sequestered, they had no income, a lot of their

952
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:22,000
Speaker 1: wealth was taken from them because of their associations with

953
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:24,799
Speaker 1: with the monarchy. And so if he had all these

954
00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:28,680
Speaker 1: illegitimate children floating around out there and across Europe, um,

955
00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:31,760
Speaker 1: he wasn't able to get him any money in the instruments.

956
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:35,000
Speaker 1: So now finally the restoration happens, his lands are restored,

957
00:49:35,040 --> 00:49:37,560
Speaker 1: he's got his wealth back. Now suddenly he's in a

958
00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:39,920
Speaker 1: position to help out his kids. So the thinking is

959
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:43,320
Speaker 1: that he may be sent Harrison on a mission to

960
00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:48,040
Speaker 1: to actually take money to his two children ex girlfriends.

961
00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:52,719
Speaker 1: Whatever one, Why Harrison and to where did the money

962
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:55,480
Speaker 1: suddenly appear from? This is all a good question. I

963
00:49:55,560 --> 00:49:58,200
Speaker 1: don't know. This is, like I said, just a theory.

964
00:49:58,680 --> 00:50:00,680
Speaker 1: I again, why Harrison, why do you choose a seven

965
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:03,400
Speaker 1: year old guy? One reason, of course, would be trustworthy.

966
00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:06,000
Speaker 1: He was trustworthy, you know, he was a solid guy.

967
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:09,120
Speaker 1: One of the problems I have with this as far

968
00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:12,680
Speaker 1: as him being essentially a money carrier, why did it

969
00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:17,000
Speaker 1: take him two whole years to do this? Number one? Uh?

970
00:50:17,239 --> 00:50:21,080
Speaker 1: Number two? Why didn't anybody, knowing that he was just

971
00:50:21,480 --> 00:50:22,839
Speaker 1: out of town it was going to be back, why

972
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:27,399
Speaker 1: didn't anybody intervene to stop three people from getting hanged? Well,

973
00:50:28,239 --> 00:50:31,520
Speaker 1: I guess I can kind of answer that, maybe because

974
00:50:31,640 --> 00:50:34,239
Speaker 1: you know, they didn't care. Well, no, I think it's

975
00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:38,359
Speaker 1: possible that the Perrys were kind of yeah, I mean

976
00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:42,120
Speaker 1: they could have been stealing and trashing things and getting

977
00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:45,120
Speaker 1: drunks of the English country. I mean, they could have

978
00:50:45,239 --> 00:50:48,000
Speaker 1: been people that the Viscountess was like, I don't care,

979
00:50:48,239 --> 00:50:51,640
Speaker 1: they don't contribute anything. They're kind of like, you know,

980
00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:54,400
Speaker 1: beating up all of my all of the people who

981
00:50:54,520 --> 00:50:59,160
Speaker 1: live in my area. They're stealing from trouble my employee. Yeah,

982
00:50:59,239 --> 00:51:02,319
Speaker 1: basically just makers and you know what, it's probably better

983
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:06,200
Speaker 1: if they're gone anyway, Yeah, snuff that line out right

984
00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:08,560
Speaker 1: there and there. I mean, I'm not saying that's like

985
00:51:08,680 --> 00:51:14,560
Speaker 1: a good reason, but it's as well. Actually, if you

986
00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:17,480
Speaker 1: think about it, you don't rule if he left and

987
00:51:17,840 --> 00:51:20,279
Speaker 1: he was not expected to come back, but he had

988
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:22,319
Speaker 1: to leave in his super secret mission. Maybe his wife

989
00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:24,320
Speaker 1: was eventually going to go join and wherever he was,

990
00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:27,359
Speaker 1: then it totally makes sense actually to let three people

991
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:29,560
Speaker 1: get executed, because that that puts an end of the

992
00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:33,399
Speaker 1: whole thing. Yeah, he disappeared, but all speculation is done,

993
00:51:33,440 --> 00:51:37,000
Speaker 1: and he was murdered, three people were killed, all questioning

994
00:51:37,120 --> 00:51:39,719
Speaker 1: is done, so that kind of makes sense. But again,

995
00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:42,920
Speaker 1: what was his super secret mission? We don't know. Then

996
00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:44,560
Speaker 1: it's hard to say. I mean, there could actually be

997
00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:46,759
Speaker 1: progress on this. There are people actually all the time

998
00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:49,680
Speaker 1: going through ancient libraries and old manuscripts, and you never know,

999
00:51:49,760 --> 00:51:51,920
Speaker 1: somebody might stumble across a little more information one of

1000
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:56,480
Speaker 1: these things. It could happen. Uh. And but on the

1001
00:51:56,600 --> 00:51:59,880
Speaker 1: theory or our last theory here this is this does

1002
00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:02,200
Speaker 1: actually kind of a possible theory too, which is that

1003
00:52:02,640 --> 00:52:06,600
Speaker 1: the whole story is complete BS that's never had fabrication,

1004
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:10,359
Speaker 1: it's completely a fabrication. Yeah, totally possible. Well I don't

1005
00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:12,840
Speaker 1: think so. I mean, yeah, I mean it is possible.

1006
00:52:12,920 --> 00:52:14,960
Speaker 1: But somebody had to go back and really fake some

1007
00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:18,040
Speaker 1: records and really well because they were accounts. Like one

1008
00:52:18,080 --> 00:52:21,120
Speaker 1: of the justices of the piece, what's his name, Jen

1009
00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:24,120
Speaker 1: Overbury wrote an accounted this about ten years after it

1010
00:52:24,239 --> 00:52:27,680
Speaker 1: happened and published it, and that's still around, is still available. Um,

1011
00:52:28,080 --> 00:52:31,520
Speaker 1: some other documents of surfaced, of course, the letter that

1012
00:52:31,600 --> 00:52:34,960
Speaker 1: Harrison wrote that still exists, the one that he wrote

1013
00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:37,399
Speaker 1: to explain where he'd been gone for for two years,

1014
00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:40,080
Speaker 1: that's still around as far as I know. And then

1015
00:52:40,200 --> 00:52:43,239
Speaker 1: somebody just in this century I think, found some some

1016
00:52:43,480 --> 00:52:49,120
Speaker 1: court records discussing the trial of the Berries for the

1017
00:52:49,239 --> 00:52:52,960
Speaker 1: murder of William Harrison and named them all Joan, Richard,

1018
00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:55,040
Speaker 1: and John and they were all sentenced to be hanged

1019
00:52:55,080 --> 00:52:57,960
Speaker 1: for the murder of William Harrison. So here's the one.

1020
00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:03,480
Speaker 1: Here's the one thing that just screws this theory, or

1021
00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:06,600
Speaker 1: actually backs this theory up and screws up your belief

1022
00:53:06,719 --> 00:53:11,200
Speaker 1: that it's real. Those names are super duper common. Yeah, William,

1023
00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:17,080
Speaker 1: it's crap. Harrison, Williamson, will Harrison, William, William Harrison, very

1024
00:53:17,239 --> 00:53:23,160
Speaker 1: very common name. Perry is not an uncommon name. Jones

1025
00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:26,759
Speaker 1: not uncommon, I mean John, I mean it's it's These

1026
00:53:26,800 --> 00:53:31,680
Speaker 1: are all common names. So it is entirely possible that

1027
00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:39,360
Speaker 1: the Perry's killed Harrison, but not the Harrison. Right, So

1028
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:42,359
Speaker 1: these things are happening in the area, and then it's

1029
00:53:42,440 --> 00:53:44,880
Speaker 1: kind of conflagration of stuff, and then it all just

1030
00:53:45,000 --> 00:53:48,120
Speaker 1: kind of merges in the historical record because we don't

1031
00:53:48,160 --> 00:53:51,319
Speaker 1: know because it's crappy record keeping well, and actually back

1032
00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:52,920
Speaker 1: to the back of the starting of those days, they

1033
00:53:52,960 --> 00:53:57,200
Speaker 1: were starting to keep better records. And this is also

1034
00:53:57,280 --> 00:54:00,959
Speaker 1: in a time of turmoil win the anarchy is coming

1035
00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:04,840
Speaker 1: back and there is administrative turnover maybe, but but I

1036
00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:07,360
Speaker 1: mean again that one of the things that settles it

1037
00:54:07,440 --> 00:54:10,480
Speaker 1: for me, though, is is that Overbury wrote this his

1038
00:54:10,560 --> 00:54:12,520
Speaker 1: account to this whole thing, and he was privy to

1039
00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:15,080
Speaker 1: the the facts of the whole case, and he wrote

1040
00:54:15,120 --> 00:54:17,960
Speaker 1: the account of it. And so unless he was totally

1041
00:54:18,040 --> 00:54:20,879
Speaker 1: b s us he was an aspiring sci fi writer,

1042
00:54:21,080 --> 00:54:23,200
Speaker 1: maybe that's what it was. And he was, as far

1043
00:54:23,239 --> 00:54:26,399
Speaker 1: as I know, a respectable man who would and don't

1044
00:54:26,440 --> 00:54:29,480
Speaker 1: forget doing stuff like like writing sci fi. Probably back

1045
00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:32,520
Speaker 1: in the seventeenth century was not considered respectable at all.

1046
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:37,920
Speaker 1: So I think that I think it happened. Yeah, I

1047
00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:41,040
Speaker 1: think it happened, But I think that's big news. I

1048
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:43,440
Speaker 1: really think that this whole thing boils down to he

1049
00:54:43,640 --> 00:54:47,000
Speaker 1: took off and spun a bs tale when he ran

1050
00:54:47,080 --> 00:54:50,200
Speaker 1: out of money, and it was running away from from debt.

1051
00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:53,560
Speaker 1: I think that he got himself into either gambling debts

1052
00:54:54,040 --> 00:54:57,040
Speaker 1: or just credit debt because look, I've got all these

1053
00:54:57,120 --> 00:55:01,000
Speaker 1: hundreds of pounds, lend me money. I really think that

1054
00:55:01,200 --> 00:55:05,520
Speaker 1: he just he ran away and spent faster than he

1055
00:55:05,600 --> 00:55:10,040
Speaker 1: expected to come back. Oh it's a good thing. I

1056
00:55:10,160 --> 00:55:13,560
Speaker 1: gave them this different name I gotta go, Yeah, and

1057
00:55:13,640 --> 00:55:15,200
Speaker 1: didn't know where else it goes. So he went home.

1058
00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:18,640
Speaker 1: Well and maybe, uh, he took a big chance, I think.

1059
00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:20,760
Speaker 1: But you know, I think maybe one of the reasons

1060
00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:23,000
Speaker 1: it worked out for him. And I don't think he

1061
00:55:23,080 --> 00:55:26,800
Speaker 1: got his whole job back as far as I got it.

1062
00:55:26,920 --> 00:55:30,200
Speaker 1: But if he did, their their very gold. Yeah, but

1063
00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:33,160
Speaker 1: maybe the local the local law and everything like that.

1064
00:55:33,320 --> 00:55:36,600
Speaker 1: Maybe they were all kind of like, you know, let's

1065
00:55:36,640 --> 00:55:38,400
Speaker 1: just sweep the sound of the rug and forget about it,

1066
00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:41,839
Speaker 1: because otherwise it kind of makes us look bad. Yeah,

1067
00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:43,759
Speaker 1: I didn't think that. One of the I think that

1068
00:55:43,960 --> 00:55:46,960
Speaker 1: this case was sort of the basis for for what

1069
00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:49,720
Speaker 1: was a long tradition in English law, which is that basically,

1070
00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:52,680
Speaker 1: if you don't have a body, you don't have a murder. Yeah,

1071
00:55:52,719 --> 00:55:54,800
Speaker 1: that's what I think. This was the genesis of that

1072
00:55:54,880 --> 00:55:58,040
Speaker 1: whole idea. Is that, you know, because never in other cases.

1073
00:55:58,080 --> 00:56:00,520
Speaker 1: There was a case in American history, like back in

1074
00:56:00,560 --> 00:56:03,479
Speaker 1: the nineteenth century where the guy was hung for killing

1075
00:56:03,560 --> 00:56:05,399
Speaker 1: some guy and then some years later the guy comes

1076
00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:07,799
Speaker 1: back to town and say, what's up. But what's up, dudes?

1077
00:56:07,880 --> 00:56:10,319
Speaker 1: And oh, we thought you were dead. We killed ted

1078
00:56:10,360 --> 00:56:14,440
Speaker 1: over there over it. H We'll see yeah, d bag anyway.

1079
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:18,160
Speaker 1: But I mean, yeah, I know English law has for

1080
00:56:18,400 --> 00:56:23,319
Speaker 1: many many years had the nobody no hanging rule. But yeah,

1081
00:56:23,680 --> 00:56:26,359
Speaker 1: they've gotten away from that apparently. Well you might still

1082
00:56:26,360 --> 00:56:29,120
Speaker 1: be able to convict people, but yeah, you probably still

1083
00:56:29,160 --> 00:56:31,319
Speaker 1: thinking the bridge don't kill anybody. I don't think they

1084
00:56:31,360 --> 00:56:34,280
Speaker 1: execute anybody. But they also run on the shortest prison sentence.

1085
00:56:34,480 --> 00:56:37,919
Speaker 1: Oh you you clubbed an old lady near to death,

1086
00:56:38,200 --> 00:56:40,560
Speaker 1: gould be three weeks in jail. Yeah, they did kind of.

1087
00:56:40,640 --> 00:56:42,560
Speaker 1: I mean, it's like there's only a couple of people

1088
00:56:42,600 --> 00:56:45,120
Speaker 1: in the whole country that are actually seriously in prison

1089
00:56:45,239 --> 00:56:48,520
Speaker 1: for life, Jeremy Bamber, Jeremy Bamber being one of them. Yeah,

1090
00:56:48,560 --> 00:56:50,520
Speaker 1: he's He's one of just a few. And that's it,

1091
00:56:50,719 --> 00:56:54,040
Speaker 1: I mean, just a couple really. Yeah, that's why they

1092
00:56:54,080 --> 00:56:58,200
Speaker 1: have a high crime rate over there. The Queen's Corgis. Yeah,

1093
00:56:58,200 --> 00:57:01,239
Speaker 1: because they hittled on the carpet. Yeah, well tied the

1094
00:57:01,320 --> 00:57:05,279
Speaker 1: room together. Alright. So, um, so you guys have any

1095
00:57:05,320 --> 00:57:09,319
Speaker 1: other theories here, other idea? What the hell I think

1096
00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:12,239
Speaker 1: you just ran away? Yeah he probably did. Yeah, it's

1097
00:57:12,239 --> 00:57:15,040
Speaker 1: still a weird little story. Yeah, it's still weird. It's

1098
00:57:15,080 --> 00:57:17,640
Speaker 1: still weird, but especially that that that added little twist

1099
00:57:17,680 --> 00:57:22,200
Speaker 1: of three dead people. See. Yeah, anyway, Yeah, if we

1100
00:57:22,280 --> 00:57:24,320
Speaker 1: have any British listeners out there that are fans of

1101
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:27,280
Speaker 1: the story and have any any input, we have an

1102
00:57:27,360 --> 00:57:29,720
Speaker 1: email account. Believe we finally got an email account. I

1103
00:57:29,760 --> 00:57:31,000
Speaker 1: thought you were going to stop it if we have

1104
00:57:31,080 --> 00:57:32,960
Speaker 1: any British listeners and I was going to say, you know,

1105
00:57:33,160 --> 00:57:36,800
Speaker 1: we do, Yeah, of course we do, but we do

1106
00:57:36,920 --> 00:57:39,480
Speaker 1: have an email I'm sorry, we do. It is it's

1107
00:57:39,520 --> 00:57:41,640
Speaker 1: one of them fancy Gmail accounts. Don't you wish you

1108
00:57:41,720 --> 00:57:46,240
Speaker 1: had one? But Thinking Sideways Podcast at gmail dot com

1109
00:57:47,040 --> 00:57:50,680
Speaker 1: send us an email. What else we are on social media?

1110
00:57:51,200 --> 00:57:55,800
Speaker 1: Like Facebook? Twitter? On Twitter, we are thinking sideways. Uh

1111
00:57:55,880 --> 00:57:58,160
Speaker 1: and and of course on Facebook you want to join

1112
00:57:58,240 --> 00:58:00,760
Speaker 1: the group and like the page and join the page.

1113
00:58:00,800 --> 00:58:03,360
Speaker 1: So just and don't try your friend like the page,

1114
00:58:03,440 --> 00:58:05,160
Speaker 1: join the group, and there's lots of fun stuff going

1115
00:58:05,200 --> 00:58:07,400
Speaker 1: on and read and they're read it. Oh yeah, we

1116
00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:08,960
Speaker 1: gotta read it. We got read it. Where we are

1117
00:58:09,040 --> 00:58:15,400
Speaker 1: thinking Sideways and there literally as of tonight, just joined recording,

1118
00:58:15,520 --> 00:58:18,760
Speaker 1: just joined Instagram. That's right to find us. We're um

1119
00:58:19,240 --> 00:58:22,240
Speaker 1: thinking Sideways podcast on that it would be a very

1120
00:58:22,400 --> 00:58:27,160
Speaker 1: very small Instagram page. Yeah, that's what you think, you

1121
00:58:27,200 --> 00:58:31,880
Speaker 1: guys be amazing. It'll start out small, it'll get big

1122
00:58:31,960 --> 00:58:34,480
Speaker 1: really fast. What else you're probably wondering where you can

1123
00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:37,000
Speaker 1: find our wonderful podcast and listen to it. Well, we're

1124
00:58:37,000 --> 00:58:38,760
Speaker 1: all over the place. We're on our website of course,

1125
00:58:38,840 --> 00:58:42,600
Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways podcast dot com. You can listen to our

1126
00:58:42,680 --> 00:58:46,360
Speaker 1: our episodes right there. You can also buy merch like

1127
00:58:46,600 --> 00:58:48,680
Speaker 1: mugs and t shirts and stickers and all kinds of

1128
00:58:48,720 --> 00:58:50,960
Speaker 1: cool stuff. Oh yeah, and also on our website you

1129
00:58:51,040 --> 00:58:53,640
Speaker 1: will find we always have links to some of the stories,

1130
00:58:54,080 --> 00:58:57,960
Speaker 1: the background research stuff and research. We will definitely put

1131
00:58:58,000 --> 00:59:00,680
Speaker 1: a link to Peter Clifford's website that's got tons of

1132
00:59:00,840 --> 00:59:03,240
Speaker 1: research on this story, and you can find out all

1133
00:59:03,280 --> 00:59:05,840
Speaker 1: the great details that I had to leave out, because

1134
00:59:05,960 --> 00:59:07,600
Speaker 1: you know, I could have gone on for hours and

1135
00:59:07,680 --> 00:59:11,120
Speaker 1: hours on this thing. Besides our website, what else We're

1136
00:59:11,160 --> 00:59:13,480
Speaker 1: on iTunes and we're all okay, all kinds of streaming

1137
00:59:13,520 --> 00:59:21,000
Speaker 1: services to Google Play, dada everything. But uh, but anyway,

1138
00:59:21,080 --> 00:59:24,960
Speaker 1: be sure to know subscribe, leave a rating, and leave

1139
00:59:25,000 --> 00:59:28,560
Speaker 1: a review, preferably a good rating five stars, and remember

1140
00:59:28,640 --> 00:59:32,720
Speaker 1: to down vote the one star and two star reviews

1141
00:59:33,000 --> 00:59:36,120
Speaker 1: and upvote the five star reviews. Do whatever you want. Yeah,

1142
00:59:36,160 --> 00:59:38,520
Speaker 1: but it makes you feel good. Whatever makes you feel good,

1143
00:59:38,720 --> 00:59:41,120
Speaker 1: all right, Okay, I guess that's it until next week.

1144
00:59:41,200 --> 00:59:44,880
Speaker 1: I leave it there to your lair or something. Hey, guys,

1145
00:59:44,960 --> 00:59:47,720
Speaker 1: so I gotta go to our bank account and then

1146
00:59:47,800 --> 00:59:50,480
Speaker 1: I swear I'll be back for recording next week. We'll

1147
00:59:50,520 --> 00:59:54,600
Speaker 1: see in two years, right, dude, I promise not to

1148
00:59:54,720 --> 01:00:00,160
Speaker 1: kill anybody, ow