Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff from the Science Lab from how stuff
Speaker 1: works dot com. Wow, hey, guys, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 1: This is us and I don't know, like the science
Speaker 1: editor how stuff works dot com. And this is Robert Lamb,
Speaker 1: science writer at how stuff works dot com. And uh,
Speaker 1: in the podcast room here, the temporary room is pretty,
Speaker 1: uh it's kind of toasty, but the rest of the
Speaker 1: office it's uh, pretty freezing, pretty frigid. Yeah, it's the
Speaker 1: time of the year where like it's getting warmer outside,
Speaker 1: but the air conditioning is already on and it's a
Speaker 1: little too ambitious, right, And there's somebody in the office
Speaker 1: who's always hot, you know, so you've got to turn
Speaker 1: it down for them. And then there's somebody who's always
Speaker 1: all tiny and keeps space heaters on underneath your desk
Speaker 1: and piles on the shawls. And then there's that one
Speaker 1: guy that's bringing in frozen corpses of like dead rich
Speaker 1: people so that they can be thought out like centuries
Speaker 1: from now in the future when they created cures for
Speaker 1: their various ailments, right right, the cryonics guy. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: that's the topic of today's podcast, is in fact cryonics
Speaker 1: death on ice. Yeah, and this is I mean, this
Speaker 1: is a pretty snazzy topic. It's been in the news
Speaker 1: pretty much a lot over the past decade especially, and uh,
Speaker 1: and it's all over sci fi just you know, just
Speaker 1: the idea of people people freezing themselves when they die
Speaker 1: so they can live forever. It's kind of morbid neural answer.
Speaker 1: The test or Ashpools, the clan, the main clan in there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they're all like frozen up in the orbit, right and
Speaker 1: all as crazy as a rat and a coffee can indeed. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so just to refresh your memory. Cryogenics is just the
Speaker 1: area of science that deals with what happens at really
Speaker 1: low tempts. It doesn't just deal with us humans. Cryonics
Speaker 1: is the technique used to store human bodies are really
Speaker 1: low temperatures with the hope of one day reviving them.
Speaker 1: And it is being performed today that the freezing part
Speaker 1: that is not necessarily the reviving part. But the technology
Speaker 1: is really still in its infancy. And here's the really
Speaker 1: interesting thing that's stuck with me when we were researching
Speaker 1: this is that you don't have to freeze your whole body.
Speaker 1: You can, in fact, just freeze your your head. Yeah,
Speaker 1: or if you want to get more reductionists. You can
Speaker 1: just freeze your brain. Yeah, I mean, and you know
Speaker 1: this is uh if anybody's watched Futurama, you know there's
Speaker 1: a whole deal with like celebrities and they're they're they're
Speaker 1: just these all these heads and jars. So in the
Speaker 1: future you can go to a museum and meet like
Speaker 1: past presidents in there. You know, did they talk? They talk?
Speaker 1: You know, even people who are clearly not uh preserved
Speaker 1: and frozen. You know, it'll be like like people like
Speaker 1: George Washington will be ahead and at jar and then
Speaker 1: it'll be the Beastie Boys. So why are we so
Speaker 1: interested in this? Well, because it's it's that one. It's
Speaker 1: one of those topics that that it once it's one
Speaker 1: of those topics that is yes, it's kind of gasly
Speaker 1: engross and and uh and bizarre, but it's also chance
Speaker 1: of immortality. It's it's a it's a shot at preserving
Speaker 1: life or um postponing down. Yeah, yeah, preserving the human mind.
Speaker 1: And yeah, I mean ultimately it's all about like cheating death.
Speaker 1: It's it's kind of like the modern equivalent of the
Speaker 1: of like the Pharaoh going into the pyramid, you know,
Speaker 1: like based on the best information at the time that
Speaker 1: he was getting from the priest that you know, if
Speaker 1: you go into this pyramid with all your stuff, then
Speaker 1: you're going to be set for the afterlife. And this
Speaker 1: is kind of like a scientific take on it, you know,
Speaker 1: where it's like, hey, some people would argue it's not
Speaker 1: very scientific, but we'll get into that. But it's using
Speaker 1: the it's employing the science. Is you know, whether whether
Speaker 1: the science actually backs it up completely and you know,
Speaker 1: we can get into that, but but they're they're making
Speaker 1: a scientific argument for delivery into what is essentially the afterlife.
Speaker 1: Some scientists are interested in it, like astronauts, for example,
Speaker 1: this would be pretty handy if you could freeze a
Speaker 1: couple of astronauts for a long distance journey to another world. Um,
Speaker 1: if you were if you happen to be suffering from
Speaker 1: some incurable disease, you could go into the freeze until
Speaker 1: the cure arrives. Yeah. Like Mr Burns and the Simpsons,
Speaker 1: do you remember that one where it was the one
Speaker 1: where Lisa is like in it's like if Lisa gets
Speaker 1: to see what her future is going to be like
Speaker 1: and and this your Burns, the evil boss you know,
Speaker 1: has been has been frozen until medical science can create
Speaker 1: a cure for seventeen stab wounds to the back. Yeah.
Speaker 1: One thing I was thinking about was I wonder if
Speaker 1: this could be a facet of a witness protection program
Speaker 1: in the future. Oh yeah, yeah. I mean that's because
Speaker 1: in a way, you're in trouble, it'll just freeze you
Speaker 1: until yeah, put the eyes on him, um, and then
Speaker 1: he can wake up sometime in the future when it
Speaker 1: doesn't matter anymore. Yeah. I read the American Cranics Society
Speaker 1: offers the quote unquote ultimate privacy option, in which your
Speaker 1: attorney handles all the details and the society doesn't even
Speaker 1: know your name, so you can be frozen anonymously. Just
Speaker 1: corpsicle three, or it wouldn't be three, would be more
Speaker 1: like a hundred and something now because according to those guys,
Speaker 1: they're really stacking them up. So the chiggy thing about chronics,
Speaker 1: of course, is that you have to your heart has
Speaker 1: to stop beating in order for this procedure to be
Speaker 1: performed on you. It can't be performed on someone who's
Speaker 1: still alive legally speaking, yeah, because that would technically be murder. Yeah, obviously, thanks,
Speaker 1: that's a good point. So you have to be legally dead.
Speaker 1: And what is legally dead mean. It means your heart
Speaker 1: stopped beating, not totally dead as in brain death. We
Speaker 1: have an article on brain death which I read and
Speaker 1: got side checked in when I was researching this. So
Speaker 1: brains can survive, according to our article on brain death,
Speaker 1: for up to six minutes after your heart stops speeding.
Speaker 1: So it's really interesting between the time your heart stops
Speaker 1: speeding and your brain cells start dying, there's this sort
Speaker 1: of purgatory Yeah, well window of opportunity anyway, Yeah, right, exactly,
Speaker 1: And this is where the Chronics people jump in, and
Speaker 1: after the heart stops speeding, there's some cellular brain function
Speaker 1: that they think may remain for those precious few minutes.
Speaker 1: So Chronics preserves that sell functions so that theoretically the
Speaker 1: person can be resuscitated in the future. Yeah. It's kind
Speaker 1: of like, um, if you say, a struggling actor at
Speaker 1: a pizzeria and you see like a family with a
Speaker 1: bunch of breadsticks on the table and they like totally
Speaker 1: get up and leave the breadsticks when they go. It's
Speaker 1: like if you can swoop in and get those breadsticks
Speaker 1: before they come and bust the table window of opportunity.
Speaker 1: So let's get into the process of freezing a body.
Speaker 1: So you're interested in joining a chronics facility, Well, you'd
Speaker 1: have to pay an annual membership fee and this can
Speaker 1: be in the area of four hundred dollars a year,
Speaker 1: or you can just get it all over at once,
Speaker 1: because what if your estate isn't taken care of. What
Speaker 1: if your person who is the executor of your state,
Speaker 1: you know, loaves off and decides to spend it on
Speaker 1: something else, will you just pay up front? Essentially? Yeah,
Speaker 1: we're talking long term planning here, Like you guess you
Speaker 1: could have like if you're just rolling the dough, you
Speaker 1: could have some sort of account set up where the
Speaker 1: interest off of your massive amount of money, um, you know,
Speaker 1: goes to pay for your yearly fee. It's kind of like, uh,
Speaker 1: what we need have those condos and you have to
Speaker 1: pay for like the lawn time share. Yeah no, no,
Speaker 1: but with the like the association fee. Oh yeah right,
Speaker 1: And some of the organizations has cut me up offered
Speaker 1: discounts on fees for students. So if you're struggling students
Speaker 1: but are still interested in chronics, you can start now
Speaker 1: and just pay a discounted fee weight, but you have
Speaker 1: when you have to be dead, like that's you're not
Speaker 1: really struggling anymore at that point. Well, I think they
Speaker 1: offer payment programs. I think that's the idea behind it,
Speaker 1: unless in that you're you're you're not brain dead, so
Speaker 1: like for six years. So however long you're frozen, you're
Speaker 1: still having that dream about about how you didn't drop
Speaker 1: that class in time right right right, you're showing up
Speaker 1: naked for a test. That's the worst. Um. So the
Speaker 1: first step is joining this facility and paying out some cash.
Speaker 1: But then things start to get interesting. When your heart
Speaker 1: stops speeding and you're pronounced legally dead. Then there's an
Speaker 1: emergency response team from the facility and they spring into action.
Speaker 1: So the problem here that I was thinking about is
Speaker 1: what do you do if you die in accidental death
Speaker 1: and you're kind of stuck, and what happens is the
Speaker 1: chronics company refund your money. I would hope you would
Speaker 1: have like a voucher, you know that It's like if
Speaker 1: I'm not able to use it, then I've got like
Speaker 1: a you know, a freezing voucher that I can pass
Speaker 1: on to somebody else that I care about that's a
Speaker 1: good idea. I mean, that's just my idea. I have
Speaker 1: no idea what they do, right, So the team springs
Speaker 1: into action, and the first thing they do is they
Speaker 1: stabilize your body. They're supplying your brain with enough oxygen
Speaker 1: and blood to preserve minimal function until you can be
Speaker 1: transported to the suspension facility. So at this point they
Speaker 1: put you on ice ice. Yeah, and we're just talking
Speaker 1: normal ice here, just to cool you down. Um. And
Speaker 1: then they also inject you with an antecout coagulant to
Speaker 1: keep your blood from clotting during the trip. And then
Speaker 1: a medical team just awaits the arrival of your body
Speaker 1: at the cryonic facility. And that is when the actual
Speaker 1: of freezing begins. When you get there, you can't really
Speaker 1: just put people into a vat of liquid nitrogen because
Speaker 1: the water inside their cells would freeze, and when water freezes,
Speaker 1: it expands, and then your cells would be in bad shape.
Speaker 1: They would shatter. Yeah. Anybody who's ever, you know, put
Speaker 1: a glass of anything in the freezer has observed this.
Speaker 1: Now imagine that with the whole body. That's not good,
Speaker 1: not good at all. So the cronics you must first
Speaker 1: remove the water from your cells and replace it with
Speaker 1: this funky mixture called a cryo protective. It's a sort
Speaker 1: of human anti freeze. Yeah, and the goal here is
Speaker 1: to protect the organs of the tissue from forming those
Speaker 1: ice crystals at those really low temperatures. Yeah. You don't
Speaker 1: want your organs to get freezer burned. Yeah. So this
Speaker 1: is called vitrification, deep cooling without the freezing and puts
Speaker 1: the cells into a s state of suspended animation. Next,
Speaker 1: your body is laid on a bed of dry ice
Speaker 1: until it reaches the temperature necessary, which is roughly around
Speaker 1: negative degrees celsius. And you you can only imagine it
Speaker 1: looks really gnarly at this point because it's like a
Speaker 1: like a haunted house. It's like all that dry ice
Speaker 1: is smoking and your corpse is setting on top and there.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying, it probably looks pretty cool. Yeah, So
Speaker 1: that completes the vitrification process. Also, what he's with the
Speaker 1: name that is not a very attractive name. I don't know,
Speaker 1: you feel okay with it? Well, it's kind of it
Speaker 1: sounds like it's got to be that strongly like vigorous. No,
Speaker 1: it's like a file. Anyway. The next step is inserting
Speaker 1: the body into an individual container that's placed into this
Speaker 1: huge tank filled with liquid nitrogen at a temperature around
Speaker 1: negative one celsius. And check this out. They store you
Speaker 1: head down, so if there's ever a leak in the tank,
Speaker 1: your brain stays immersed in the freezing liquid. And if
Speaker 1: there is a leak, they do check to see if
Speaker 1: there are leaks periodically. Yeah, because you don't want to like,
Speaker 1: you know, they crack the v open you know, um,
Speaker 1: a couple of millennium in the future and they're like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: only as feet survive. The other thing is you're going
Speaker 1: to have some company in your container, as a lot
Speaker 1: of people, well not a lot, but a few people
Speaker 1: are typically stored in a container. I bet, I bet
Speaker 1: if you paid down, you know, some more money, you
Speaker 1: could probably get a solo tank totally if you're just
Speaker 1: like super you know, weird about that kind of thing. So,
Speaker 1: now that you're all handy and frozen and upside down
Speaker 1: in the tank, how do you revive someone? Well, you don't.
Speaker 1: And this is where the chronics problem starts to get
Speaker 1: a little messy. Yeah, it's kind of a it's like
Speaker 1: a gamble, really, it's it's saying, Hey, we're gonna go
Speaker 1: ahead and chill this out, and eventually science is gonna
Speaker 1: catch up with us and they're gonna be able to
Speaker 1: do something with it. Yeah, in a weird way, it's
Speaker 1: sort of a faith in science, which is nice. Yeah. Again,
Speaker 1: it's like applying the it's applying science in the same
Speaker 1: way that one might have applied a religion in in
Speaker 1: ancient times. So a couple of points in chronics favor
Speaker 1: if you're considering this. Living organisms can be and have
Speaker 1: been brought back from a dead or near dead state.
Speaker 1: You things like defibrillators and CPR are bringing back accident
Speaker 1: and heart attack victims all the time. Yeah. And then
Speaker 1: you have other organisms that can quote freeze themselves, like
Speaker 1: the wood frog. The wood frog is awesome. So it
Speaker 1: can deal with freezing of up to six seventy of
Speaker 1: their body water. It can maintain a minimum body temperature
Speaker 1: of negative six degrees celsius, and for four weeks it
Speaker 1: can stay frozen. It's pretty good. I'm impressed. So what
Speaker 1: helps the wood frog to survive the freeze? Well, one
Speaker 1: of the responses promoting the tolerance and these frogs is, uh,
Speaker 1: they're able to redistribute the water within their body. So
Speaker 1: all that water that's normally found all over the tissues
Speaker 1: is concentrated within the limp system and the column. Oh cool,
Speaker 1: so they just, yeah, they repurpose it to areas that
Speaker 1: aren't going to be damaged by that crystallization process, exactly, exactly.
Speaker 1: And the other cool thing about the wood frog is
Speaker 1: it has this inherent cryoprotectant in the form of glucose
Speaker 1: from liver glacitchen and then it can quickly make and
Speaker 1: send it to the rest of the body. So this
Speaker 1: happens really fast. O. Cool. So is it so basically
Speaker 1: that this is a creature that is evolved to deal
Speaker 1: with with cold spells? And uh, and so it can
Speaker 1: survive cold spells. Yeah, and it has a good company.
Speaker 1: They are about a dozen different reptiles and amphibians that
Speaker 1: can freeze themselves, according to Miami University Department of Zoology.
Speaker 1: So maybe we should like just throw this out there.
Speaker 1: Maybe we should be looking to the continuing evolution of
Speaker 1: say Canadians or you know, Siberians. Yeah, anybody living in
Speaker 1: extreme temperatures. You know, nature is eventually going to catch up.
Speaker 1: Just quit turning on the heat. And ruin and things.
Speaker 1: You know. So one thing reassuring about about all this
Speaker 1: is that we can freeze certain human materials, say embryos
Speaker 1: and semen most definitely, that was an interesting thing to
Speaker 1: look into while we're researching this podcast. Yeah, human embryos
Speaker 1: that are frozen in fertility clinics or defrost and implanted
Speaker 1: and mother's theaters and they grow into you know, totally
Speaker 1: normal human beings. It's a great example we can put
Speaker 1: of us putting life on ice and then in a
Speaker 1: way reviving it. Right, So if I were considering chronics,
Speaker 1: I would think that would be something that would point
Speaker 1: me in its favor. Well, we can do it with
Speaker 1: seuman and embryos. Granted it's not a human body. And
Speaker 1: the argument there is that the human body is enormously complicated.
Speaker 1: So it's one thing to d ice semen or embryos,
Speaker 1: but it's another thing entirely to d ice human being. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but I guess it seems like a natural progression, um
Speaker 1: a complicated, natural, complicated one. But like I take for instance,
Speaker 1: UM being able to freeze organs for transplant, Like you
Speaker 1: might think, all right, that's a very practical means. You know,
Speaker 1: if we could, you know, somebody loses you know, dies,
Speaker 1: we harvest their organs and then we can put them
Speaker 1: on ice to make sure that they are ready when
Speaker 1: somebody needs them, or that they can be transported to
Speaker 1: the person who needs them. Uh, and that would be
Speaker 1: you know, an actual need that would lead to better
Speaker 1: freezing techniques. Right. Well, they are put on ice now,
Speaker 1: but yeah, the shelf life of them is so fast.
Speaker 1: I mean you have to move it instantly, get that
Speaker 1: kim me on ice and bomb send it to the recipient.
Speaker 1: It sounds like the U S courts haven't quite figured
Speaker 1: out what to make of chronics just yet. Did you
Speaker 1: see that new stories at you? Oh? Yeah, yeah, the
Speaker 1: one from Iowa, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The Iowa
Speaker 1: Court of Appeals has ordered the family of a deceased
Speaker 1: man to exhume his body so that his previous wishes
Speaker 1: to have his head frozen by an arizona Um cryonics
Speaker 1: company can be met. Yeah. That was strange. Independent This
Speaker 1: seems kind of like, because how long has he been
Speaker 1: in the ground, you know, it's just it's kind of
Speaker 1: over at this point. What's the point of freezing it? Yeah.
Speaker 1: This story goes on to say that He died in
Speaker 1: February two thousand nine at age eight one, and prior
Speaker 1: to his demise, he'd entered into this contract with the
Speaker 1: Crownics company called alk Core Life Extension Foundation. But his
Speaker 1: his his brother, and his sister didn't want to do it,
Speaker 1: and so they had him buried and the appeals Kurt said, no, no,
Speaker 1: you gotta dig that guy up and you gotta stick
Speaker 1: him in the Chronics facility. Yeah, that's I mean, it
Speaker 1: sounds like those breadsticks have been bust you know. I
Speaker 1: mean there's I don't unless I'm missing something. Um in
Speaker 1: the grounds really cold there. Um, that one's kind of
Speaker 1: done for. Yeah, kind of odd. So this is pretty cool. Um.
Speaker 1: I was pulling up some some different statistics and I
Speaker 1: think you were looking at this these two. Um. The
Speaker 1: Cryonics Institute has a bunch of comparative proceidures and policies
Speaker 1: on their website, so you can look at like some
Speaker 1: of the different different places you could have your body frozen.
Speaker 1: You can stop around steal. So there's like there's Altcore
Speaker 1: Life Extension Foundation in Arizona, American Chronic Society in California,
Speaker 1: Chronic Institute in Michigan, Creo Roussan and um. And then
Speaker 1: there's Suspended Animation Inc. In Florida that has a nice
Speaker 1: ring to it. Yeah. I wonder if they do anime
Speaker 1: there too. It's it does it sounds kind of um,
Speaker 1: I don't know's it sounds like something out of a novel. Um. Oh.
Speaker 1: And then there's trans Time Inc. Also in California. So
Speaker 1: California is a hotbed of getting your body frozen pretty much. Um.
Speaker 1: But they have all this other stuff on there too,
Speaker 1: about like all right, which ones offer you know, just
Speaker 1: the head um or you know, full body freezing? Um?
Speaker 1: You know what what kind of prices are involved in?
Speaker 1: There was one that was pretty that I was kind
Speaker 1: of i because it had had some like it wasn't
Speaker 1: that much per year like I think they had like
Speaker 1: the yearly cost down to yeah, like trans Time and
Speaker 1: uh Chronics Institute they headed down to like like one
Speaker 1: is like ninety six dollars for yearly fee and the
Speaker 1: other ones are and twenty And of course it still
Speaker 1: takes an enormous amount of money to to get frozen
Speaker 1: to begin with, but it's like hundred twenty a year.
Speaker 1: I probably you know, spend that much on I don't
Speaker 1: know beer or something you know, indeed not beer, but
Speaker 1: I don't know. Fine coffee, yeah, something caffeine to keep
Speaker 1: you awake during your podcasts. Yeah, definitely on caffeine. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So for the price of like one year's worth of coffee,
Speaker 1: I could to have my body frozen until they figured
Speaker 1: out how to restore me and like put me in
Speaker 1: like a new android body in the future. Or you
Speaker 1: could have the exact opposite done and you could be
Speaker 1: burned up proverb that's right, for a lot cheaper, yeah,
Speaker 1: or composted. This gonna be the next big craze, they say,
Speaker 1: human composting. Yeah. Yeah, there's actually a whole deal about it. Um.
Speaker 1: And actually Mary roaches a stiff book kind of like
Speaker 1: body farm, um kind of. I mean, it's basically operates
Speaker 1: along the principle that you know, it's kind of like,
Speaker 1: you know, to I feel like today's generation, a lot
Speaker 1: of us are like like I feel it's like I'm
Speaker 1: I would be like telling my parents and I'd be like, like,
Speaker 1: I think, you know, being buried in the ground would
Speaker 1: be a waste because I'm taking up like valuable you know,
Speaker 1: real estate. It's costing money, and then what am I
Speaker 1: doing down there. I'm just you know, being kept in
Speaker 1: like this artificial state, you know, and still decaying when
Speaker 1: you could just burn me, right and that will be
Speaker 1: a lot clear and simpler. Um. But then there's this
Speaker 1: new movement saying, well, no, actually you're you know, you're
Speaker 1: creating emissions when you burn a body and you all
Speaker 1: this fire, et cetera. And also it keeps it. It
Speaker 1: requires a lot of energy to keep the incinerator at
Speaker 1: that temperature. And then if you have you know, you
Speaker 1: have any feelings, etcetera, you know, you might have some
Speaker 1: you know, something in there that it burns up and
Speaker 1: adds the pollution. Um. So they're people to say, hey,
Speaker 1: what would be more natural than just simply becoming a
Speaker 1: part of the earth again. You know, you're burying and
Speaker 1: they have these these green burials you know where yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: they they talked about it in there where not much
Speaker 1: as done to the corpse and you just you know,
Speaker 1: you're retaken by the ecosystem. And it's actually a lot
Speaker 1: like I believe they do that into bet you've probably
Speaker 1: seen the pictures where they take the body and they
Speaker 1: leave it up on the rocks for the for the scavengers.
Speaker 1: So Yeah, it's you know, that's all about like continuing
Speaker 1: the natural cycle, the complete opposite of freezing yourself so
Speaker 1: that robots can rebuild your body in the future. But
Speaker 1: go forward. If that's your thing, don't let me talk
Speaker 1: you out of it. Yeah. So I think that wraps
Speaker 1: it up for death and death on it in particular.
Speaker 1: If you're curious about jeff or chronics, we have many
Speaker 1: articles on both, so head on over to the homepage
Speaker 1: and type in cryonics or brain death or how dying works.
Speaker 1: Molly Edmunds were a really good article on how dying
Speaker 1: works that I liked. Yeah, yeah, yeah, very interesting. All
Speaker 1: the processes are going on in it. Hey, and we
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Speaker 1: Like today, I ran across this awesome link from like
Speaker 1: two thousand five about this Japanese mixed martial artist who
Speaker 1: started talking about like how he would like seriously want to, like, um,
Speaker 1: have a fight with an alien and how he might
Speaker 1: carry it out. Excellent. Yeah, it's amazing. So if you
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