WEBVTT - #480 Maggie Freleng with Marty Levingston

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<v Speaker 1>Marty Livingstone doesn't claim he was an angel.

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<v Speaker 2>When he was younger, we was running around doing stupid things,

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<v Speaker 2>like he was running around. He was running doing doing

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<v Speaker 2>street stuff, just run around, acting stupid, getting into fights.

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<v Speaker 1>He grew up on the streets learning from other kids

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<v Speaker 1>like him.

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<v Speaker 2>So like we called ourselves wanting to be different, little

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<v Speaker 2>things like different or like trying to form. So I

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<v Speaker 2>ain't know what the heck we was talking about, So like.

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<v Speaker 1>A gang or like a music Like what what do

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<v Speaker 1>you mean by form?

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<v Speaker 2>Something like you know, like form something like you know,

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<v Speaker 2>like we're trying to like a click, like like a click, like,

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<v Speaker 2>oh we did we did? Like but we're trying to

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<v Speaker 2>find We boys, we brothers, a group.

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<v Speaker 1>Of friends having each other's back. Marty says he was

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<v Speaker 1>never part of a gang or commit any serious crimes.

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<v Speaker 1>He was a young dad getting his degree at the

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<v Speaker 1>time that his life came crashing in on him. One

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<v Speaker 1>day he got a phone call from his mom.

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<v Speaker 2>I said, mother, what's going on? She said, the US

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<v Speaker 2>Marshall was here. Now.

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<v Speaker 1>As I mentioned, Marty wasn't an angel. He admits that

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<v Speaker 1>he was familiar with the police. In fact, he had

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<v Speaker 1>been accused of a shooting before, but that was cleared up.

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<v Speaker 1>It hadn't been Marty. Normally he wouldn't be too worried,

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<v Speaker 1>but he says this time his gut told him something

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<v Speaker 1>was off.

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<v Speaker 2>Really on this one, it's like I felt something. It

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<v Speaker 2>was different, like this one is different. My name is

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<v Speaker 2>Marty Leviston. I was wrong for the convicted for fifteen years.

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<v Speaker 1>From Lava for Good. This is wrongful conviction with Maggie

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<v Speaker 1>Freeling today. Marty Levingston Marty Livingstone was born on August thirteenth,

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen eighty four, to Sandra and Marty d. Levingston in Cincinnati, Ohio.

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<v Speaker 2>Life wasn't I'm not gonna say life was average. Child, No,

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<v Speaker 2>I got a it's eight of us WHOA So my

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<v Speaker 2>mama was my mama six counting me. Then my father

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<v Speaker 2>had two before then, so I got three brothers and well,

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<v Speaker 2>three brothers and three sisters. The oldest will be Telicia Evans,

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<v Speaker 2>Dron Levingston Darlene.

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<v Speaker 1>Marty is somewhere in the middle of all the siblings

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<v Speaker 1>then me. Growing up, Marty says he was a daddy's boy.

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<v Speaker 2>My mom used to tell me stories about how she

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<v Speaker 2>used to be trying to like feed me. Like if

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<v Speaker 2>she puts some in her mouth and she tried to

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<v Speaker 2>feed me with it, he I smack it away. No,

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<v Speaker 2>but she says, soon as my daddy do it, I

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<v Speaker 2>could eat it. I eat it. So my dad was

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<v Speaker 2>just like I actually like my dad to come get

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<v Speaker 2>me when I was seven, six, seven, eight years old

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<v Speaker 2>and I could just go. I used to go everywhere

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<v Speaker 2>with them.

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<v Speaker 1>So but then Marty's parents split up and his dad

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<v Speaker 1>moved out.

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<v Speaker 2>That's what shows me how powerful my mother or he

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<v Speaker 2>is because us like she kept us with a roof

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<v Speaker 2>over our head, kept food on the table, like you

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<v Speaker 2>know what I'm saying. I don't know how she did it,

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<v Speaker 2>but I used to sit back and and watch her

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<v Speaker 2>make miracles happen.

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<v Speaker 1>Not only did she make it happen, but Marty remembers

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<v Speaker 1>lots of good times in his busy home full of love.

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<v Speaker 2>Sometimes it'll be out of kids, it'll be probably about

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<v Speaker 2>it could be good ten of us, ten eleven, twelve

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<v Speaker 2>of us, because if my cousin's over there, that's counting

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<v Speaker 2>them too. So oh yeah, so it'll be fighting over cereal,

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<v Speaker 2>fighting over cereal boxes, cookies, video games, like it was

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<v Speaker 2>just everybody. You know, they could pete in fighting, arguing.

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<v Speaker 2>But when you look back at it now, it was

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<v Speaker 2>like that was fun.

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<v Speaker 1>Marty says. Life was good. But then in nineteen ninety six,

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<v Speaker 1>when he was in his teens, his mom moved the

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<v Speaker 1>family to the Hawaiian Terrace apartment complex in Mount Airy,

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<v Speaker 1>a neighborhood in the outskirts of Cincinnati, which at the

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<v Speaker 1>time was dealing with a lot of crime.

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<v Speaker 2>That's when I actually start you know, picking up things like,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, learning things and things like what, oh will

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<v Speaker 2>the wrong things?

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<v Speaker 1>Marty says. He started getting into trouble for things like

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<v Speaker 1>selling drugs.

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<v Speaker 2>I start trying to find myself at that time, Like,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, my father was away at the time, and

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<v Speaker 2>so like I'm trying to find you know, where was

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<v Speaker 2>your dad at the time. My dad was incarcerated.

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<v Speaker 1>What was he incarcerated for.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, he's incarcerated for you know at that time, was

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<v Speaker 2>probably have some drug possessions or something.

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<v Speaker 1>How did that affect you.

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<v Speaker 2>When he left me? Like when he left at that time,

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<v Speaker 2>like I was hurt. You know, I was hurt, and

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<v Speaker 2>I'm trying to find myself and and it affected me

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<v Speaker 2>affected me a lot.

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<v Speaker 1>Marty started learning how to be a man from the streets.

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<v Speaker 2>I was starting to get taught the wrong things at

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<v Speaker 2>that time, like you know about just everything about women,

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<v Speaker 2>by life, by everything period. I was starting to get

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<v Speaker 2>taught those things like you know, like this how we

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<v Speaker 2>should do it, This is how we should look at women,

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<v Speaker 2>This how we should look at people.

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<v Speaker 1>At sixteen, Marty had his first kid and went on

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<v Speaker 1>to have three more. Marty says he was aimless and

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<v Speaker 1>getting cues from all the wrong people. Back then, stories

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<v Speaker 1>of neighborhood gangs were all over the local news. Not

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<v Speaker 1>a story you will see only on five. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>you used to only hear about gangs like the Crips and.

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<v Speaker 3>The MS thirteen Bloods, crips living and hanging out in

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<v Speaker 3>areas you may least.

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<v Speaker 1>Expin information tonight on a local store busted for dealing

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<v Speaker 1>drugs officers. Marty says he wasn't part of any gang,

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<v Speaker 1>but he was still involved with groups of kids and

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<v Speaker 1>young men breaking the law.

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<v Speaker 2>Like I'm gonna tell you, like I wasn't no angel.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, it was idea live a lifestyle, so you

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<v Speaker 2>couldn't do that in that area. So they end up

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<v Speaker 2>evicting my mother about it.

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<v Speaker 1>There, Marty left the neighborhood, but not the lifestyle. He says.

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<v Speaker 1>He kept acting foolish into his twenties and eventually made

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<v Speaker 1>a name for himself with law enforcement.

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<v Speaker 2>I had running ins, I had priors, I had I

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<v Speaker 2>had juvenile record. Yes, I had priors. I was out

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<v Speaker 2>there in the streets and moving around and stuff like that.

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<v Speaker 1>Though in between run ins with the law, Marty spent

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<v Speaker 1>part of his early twenties trying to get his degree.

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<v Speaker 2>I was going to job court. I was going there

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<v Speaker 2>for to be for business business management.

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<v Speaker 1>What would you have wanted to do with business management?

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<v Speaker 1>What were you thinking?

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<v Speaker 2>For real? I ain't know what I was doing. I

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<v Speaker 2>look back now, I shouldn have went in there. I

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<v Speaker 2>should have went and got carpentry or something. But like so,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm like, I think of business managed, because at that time,

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<v Speaker 2>everybody that's from the streets be saying business business management.

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<v Speaker 1>Putting two and two together business management and Marty's lifestyle,

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<v Speaker 1>I can kind of guess where he was going with

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<v Speaker 1>that degree.

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<v Speaker 2>So I'm going to Cincinnight job court school at the time,

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<v Speaker 2>And so my dad had called me and said, I

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<v Speaker 2>just heard your name on the news, I say for

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<v Speaker 2>what on the on the on the radio, they say

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<v Speaker 2>he was looking for you for a shooting.

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<v Speaker 1>I said, huh, shooting. This was Marty's first major arrest.

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<v Speaker 1>It was in two thousand and six that was.

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<v Speaker 2>Full tempted murder Forlonius Assault.

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<v Speaker 1>Marty was arrested for a drive by shooting at the

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<v Speaker 1>University of Cincinnati. Two men had been injured, but Marty

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<v Speaker 1>says he hadn't been involved and the case against him

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<v Speaker 1>didn't go very far.

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<v Speaker 2>The witness that got shot he dated my little sister

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<v Speaker 2>at the time, and so he even coming there like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I know who shot me. He ain't shoot me. Yeah

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<v Speaker 2>he was up there. I seen him up there, but

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<v Speaker 2>he ain't shoot me. And so that case ended up

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<v Speaker 2>getting dismissed.

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<v Speaker 1>Still, Marty was on the police's radar now more than ever.

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<v Speaker 1>And not long after, Marty was arrested for another shooting,

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<v Speaker 1>but this time there was no survivor to say it

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<v Speaker 1>wasn't Marty. On the evening of December twenty eighth, two

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<v Speaker 1>thousand and seven, two shooters opened fire at the Hawaiian

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<v Speaker 1>Terraces apartment complex. So do you remember when this happened?

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, I remember like yesterday.

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<v Speaker 1>Tell me what you remember.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, what happened was, So I'm in the house. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>in the house. I'm on my mother houses. Three days

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<v Speaker 2>after Christmas, I got my daughter with me. So I'm in.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm in the house. I was actually laying down because

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<v Speaker 2>I had a real bad migraine. I received a call

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<v Speaker 2>by a friend of my friend of mine name Andre.

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<v Speaker 2>He called me. He said, brother, I heard a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of gunshots out here. He go outside, he says, ambulance,

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<v Speaker 2>fire trucks everywhere. I say, wow, what happened? So he

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<v Speaker 2>ended up asking somebody. They said what happened? He said, man,

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<v Speaker 2>somebody just got killed.

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<v Speaker 1>The victim was nineteen year old Michael Grace. According to reports,

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<v Speaker 1>Grace had been living with his aunt at the Hawaiian

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<v Speaker 1>Terrorists Apartment Complex. Prosecutor said that the teenager had been

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<v Speaker 1>trying to escape his former connections to a gang called

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<v Speaker 1>the Taliband, but on December twenty eighth, that former life

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<v Speaker 1>caught up with him. Grace was in a car with

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<v Speaker 1>his friend Carlos Mayo when members of a rival gang

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<v Speaker 1>allegedly picked a fight with them, which ended in his

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<v Speaker 1>fatal shooting.

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<v Speaker 2>There So I got up. I went in my mother

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<v Speaker 2>room and I said, Mom, somebody just got killed in

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<v Speaker 2>Hawaiian Village because we called it Hawaiian Village too. I said, well, man,

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<v Speaker 2>you know they will try to put that on me.

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<v Speaker 1>Remember, Marty used to live at Hawaiian Terrace before his

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<v Speaker 1>family was evicted. He was connected there.

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<v Speaker 2>She said, well, you went out there, you was right here.

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<v Speaker 1>But Marty knew his relationship with the streets and the

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<v Speaker 1>police would work against him.

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<v Speaker 2>My name always came up when something happened, even in

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<v Speaker 2>why I wasn't even being in that area no more,

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<v Speaker 2>My nave still came up.

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<v Speaker 1>Why did you think they were going to try and

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<v Speaker 1>put it on you?

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<v Speaker 2>Anytime something happened, they either go questioned me, or pull

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<v Speaker 2>me over, or do something like that. So I knew

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<v Speaker 2>that area. I knew either they go try to put

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<v Speaker 2>this on me, they go come question me, they go

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<v Speaker 2>do something.

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<v Speaker 1>But they didn't, at least not until after the New Year,

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<v Speaker 1>when a witness named Savannah Sorels appeared.

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<v Speaker 3>So she was a young woman who lived in the area,

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<v Speaker 3>lived in a position where she could see the shooting

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<v Speaker 3>from a window in her house.

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<v Speaker 1>This is Donald Castor.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm an attorney and a professor of clinical law at

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<v Speaker 3>the Ohio Nissance Project at the University of Cincinnati, and

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<v Speaker 3>I was privileged to be one of Marty's attorneys. In

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<v Speaker 3>his post conviction.

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<v Speaker 1>Proceedings, Donald says that Sorels told police she saw Marty

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<v Speaker 1>and his co defendant David Johnson kill Michael Grace, and when.

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<v Speaker 3>They showed her a picture of Marty and out of David,

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<v Speaker 3>she said to each that that was them. So Marty

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<v Speaker 3>and David were charged.

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<v Speaker 1>Once in custody, Marty tried to tell the police that

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<v Speaker 1>he'd been home with his mom and daughter the night

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<v Speaker 1>of the shooting, that they were making a mistake, just

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<v Speaker 1>like last time, except this time friends and relatives of

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<v Speaker 1>Michael Grace were pointing the finger.

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<v Speaker 2>Now I have a whole neighborhood that's saying that they

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<v Speaker 2>think they thinking that I killed their cousin, brother, our friend, whoever.

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<v Speaker 2>And so that's what made that one different.

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<v Speaker 1>And this time detectives had Robert Taylor, a jail house informant.

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<v Speaker 3>Robert would come forward to the lead investigator on Marty's

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<v Speaker 3>case and say that he heard Marty and David talking

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<v Speaker 3>about the case through the air ducks in the Hamilton

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<v Speaker 3>County Justice Center.

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<v Speaker 1>That's the jail Marty and his co defendant David Johnson

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<v Speaker 1>were being held in. Robert Taylor claimed that through the

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<v Speaker 1>air ducks he'd heard Marty admit that he'd killed Grace,

0:11:38.559 --> 0:11:41.079
<v Speaker 1>that they were members of rival gangs and they were

0:11:41.080 --> 0:11:45.800
<v Speaker 1>fighting over stolen guns before the shooting. Marty says Taylor

0:11:45.920 --> 0:11:47.920
<v Speaker 1>was known in the jail as a snake.

0:11:48.240 --> 0:11:53.080
<v Speaker 2>They caught him white chocolate. Watch him. He is snitched.

0:11:53.120 --> 0:11:55.480
<v Speaker 2>He jumping on people's cases. He doing this and doing that.

0:11:55.840 --> 0:11:58.720
<v Speaker 1>So Marty stayed away from him, but it didn't matter.

0:11:59.080 --> 0:12:02.120
<v Speaker 2>I end up getting the a visit from my attorney

0:12:02.600 --> 0:12:05.120
<v Speaker 2>and he basically was telling me who they was using

0:12:05.160 --> 0:12:08.200
<v Speaker 2>against me on my case. And he showed me a

0:12:08.200 --> 0:12:11.280
<v Speaker 2>picture of him. Said do you know this guy? I said,

0:12:12.200 --> 0:12:14.680
<v Speaker 2>that's the jail house snitch that'd be running around here.

0:12:14.720 --> 0:12:16.920
<v Speaker 2>He's like, well, yeah, they're about to use They want

0:12:16.960 --> 0:12:18.440
<v Speaker 2>to use him as a witness on your case.

0:12:18.920 --> 0:12:23.000
<v Speaker 1>Police had an informant making serious accusations, but over the

0:12:23.000 --> 0:12:26.640
<v Speaker 1>following months, the rest of their case against Marty seemed

0:12:26.679 --> 0:12:30.680
<v Speaker 1>to fall apart. At a pre trial hearing, Savannah Sorel's

0:12:30.760 --> 0:12:33.400
<v Speaker 1>a key witness, changed her statement.

0:12:33.760 --> 0:12:37.360
<v Speaker 3>Savannah came into court and said again, Now, I said

0:12:37.360 --> 0:12:40.560
<v Speaker 3>it with Marty, but I didn't actually see Marty. She said,

0:12:40.600 --> 0:12:41.240
<v Speaker 3>I saw David.

0:12:41.600 --> 0:12:44.440
<v Speaker 1>Remember David was Marty's co defendant.

0:12:44.200 --> 0:12:47.160
<v Speaker 3>And I knew that David and Marty hung around together

0:12:47.360 --> 0:12:50.280
<v Speaker 3>a lot, so I assumed that it was Marty with him,

0:12:50.679 --> 0:12:52.760
<v Speaker 3>but I didn't actually see who was with David. I

0:12:52.760 --> 0:12:55.600
<v Speaker 3>could just see that there was somebody with David, and

0:12:55.679 --> 0:12:57.880
<v Speaker 3>she said that, you know, at under oath.

0:12:58.760 --> 0:13:01.560
<v Speaker 1>In a pre trial court, Procene and Carlos Mayo, the

0:13:01.600 --> 0:13:05.400
<v Speaker 1>person who was with Michael Grace during the shootout, told

0:13:05.440 --> 0:13:08.360
<v Speaker 1>the authorities that Marty hadn't been there the night of

0:13:08.400 --> 0:13:09.560
<v Speaker 1>December twenty eighth.

0:13:09.559 --> 0:13:11.800
<v Speaker 2>When he testified say he was firing and my code defended,

0:13:12.280 --> 0:13:15.200
<v Speaker 2>And they asked him like, okay, did you know do

0:13:15.240 --> 0:13:17.520
<v Speaker 2>you know more? To he said, well, I know him

0:13:17.600 --> 0:13:20.880
<v Speaker 2>enough to identify him if I if I seen if

0:13:20.920 --> 0:13:22.560
<v Speaker 2>he was there, I would have seen him. I would

0:13:22.600 --> 0:13:24.320
<v Speaker 2>have knew he was there. But no, I ain knew

0:13:24.320 --> 0:13:25.960
<v Speaker 2>of him until they put him on the news.

0:13:26.000 --> 0:13:27.840
<v Speaker 1>This sounds so crazy to me. I feel like there's

0:13:27.840 --> 0:13:31.079
<v Speaker 1>more people saying he wasn't there than he was there.

0:13:31.640 --> 0:13:34.320
<v Speaker 3>There was nobody who said he was there, besides.

0:13:33.960 --> 0:13:37.560
<v Speaker 1>Robert Taylor, the snitch, right, the snitch who turns out

0:13:38.040 --> 0:13:40.880
<v Speaker 1>was getting a pretty sweet deal for testifying.

0:13:41.200 --> 0:13:45.160
<v Speaker 3>He offered testimony to support the police because he was

0:13:45.200 --> 0:13:47.720
<v Speaker 3>facing a murder charge. It was the first major offense

0:13:47.760 --> 0:13:50.160
<v Speaker 3>he had been charged with. It's pretty clear he was

0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:53.640
<v Speaker 3>scared and didn't want to convicted, And in fact, he

0:13:53.720 --> 0:13:56.800
<v Speaker 3>got a monster plead deal from the prosecution in that case,

0:13:57.240 --> 0:13:59.880
<v Speaker 3>was allowed to plead the involuntary manslaughter only did it

0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:03.400
<v Speaker 3>few years in prison to testify to testify against Marty

0:14:03.440 --> 0:14:06.599
<v Speaker 3>and others. But Marty was sort of the Marty and

0:14:06.679 --> 0:14:08.439
<v Speaker 3>David was sort of the big case.

0:14:09.080 --> 0:14:10.240
<v Speaker 2>That got him that deal.

0:14:10.800 --> 0:14:13.480
<v Speaker 1>But with the pre trial testimony of Sorrels and Mayo

0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:17.720
<v Speaker 1>in his favor, Marty thought surely the charges against him

0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:21.640
<v Speaker 1>would be dismissed. But then the judge set a trial date.

0:14:22.040 --> 0:14:24.680
<v Speaker 2>I'm like a trial date, Like, I mean, I really

0:14:24.680 --> 0:14:26.120
<v Speaker 2>about to say the trial and is I got a

0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:29.840
<v Speaker 2>whole witness getting up here saying and I commit this crime.

0:14:29.800 --> 0:14:32.400
<v Speaker 1>Even though it might seem really weak to take to trial.

0:14:32.840 --> 0:14:35.040
<v Speaker 3>There was a lot of pressure to get this case

0:14:35.160 --> 0:14:39.920
<v Speaker 3>solved and resolved because at the time, there was an increase,

0:14:40.000 --> 0:14:43.680
<v Speaker 3>or at least a perceived increase in gun violence in Cincinnati.

0:14:44.120 --> 0:14:47.680
<v Speaker 3>There was a lot of impetus to put somebody away

0:14:47.720 --> 0:14:48.320
<v Speaker 3>for this crime.

0:14:50.760 --> 0:14:54.760
<v Speaker 1>Amid this climate with fear of violence and constant stories

0:14:54.800 --> 0:14:58.160
<v Speaker 1>of gangs in the nightly news. Marty went to trial

0:14:58.240 --> 0:15:01.360
<v Speaker 1>in January of two thousand and nine, prosecuted by Gus

0:15:01.440 --> 0:15:12.880
<v Speaker 1>Leone and Anne Flanagan. So tell me about trial. So

0:15:12.960 --> 0:15:16.000
<v Speaker 1>in my notes, I actually don't have any kind of defense.

0:15:16.240 --> 0:15:18.520
<v Speaker 1>Really did that actually happen? Was there no defense?

0:15:18.880 --> 0:15:22.360
<v Speaker 3>Well, so it's it's I'm trying to remember, did help

0:15:22.400 --> 0:15:24.080
<v Speaker 3>put your family on this an ALTI?

0:15:24.320 --> 0:15:27.960
<v Speaker 1>Marty's defense attorney in two thousand and nine was Hal Arenstein.

0:15:28.400 --> 0:15:31.640
<v Speaker 2>No, okay, yeah, we talked. I talked to Hall about that,

0:15:32.200 --> 0:15:35.120
<v Speaker 2>and he was like, you know, putting the putting your

0:15:35.120 --> 0:15:37.880
<v Speaker 2>family up there, They go, okay, you put your mom's

0:15:37.960 --> 0:15:40.840
<v Speaker 2>up there. They go your mom? Alaugh, oh you you

0:15:40.880 --> 0:15:43.120
<v Speaker 2>put your this and that? Like but when I look

0:15:43.200 --> 0:15:44.840
<v Speaker 2>back now, I'm like, I should have put my mom

0:15:44.920 --> 0:15:45.240
<v Speaker 2>up there.

0:15:45.360 --> 0:15:46.800
<v Speaker 1>So I went up there for you.

0:15:46.880 --> 0:15:47.640
<v Speaker 2>No one, no, no one.

0:15:47.680 --> 0:15:49.960
<v Speaker 3>There was no defense presented, and that was a pretty

0:15:49.960 --> 0:15:55.000
<v Speaker 3>common defense perception that juris don't believe alibis from family members.

0:15:55.160 --> 0:15:58.520
<v Speaker 1>Sure, but how was he defense without a defense?

0:15:58.640 --> 0:16:01.120
<v Speaker 3>So I think the idea, and let me be very

0:16:01.120 --> 0:16:05.160
<v Speaker 3>clear about this, Hall is a really good attorney. I

0:16:05.320 --> 0:16:07.920
<v Speaker 3>take no issues with anything that Hal did in this case.

0:16:09.200 --> 0:16:11.640
<v Speaker 2>I think the idea that was that this case was

0:16:11.760 --> 0:16:12.680
<v Speaker 2>just so weak.

0:16:12.480 --> 0:16:16.200
<v Speaker 3>From the prosecution's point of view that no jury would convict.

0:16:16.240 --> 0:16:18.160
<v Speaker 3>And I think that if this case were tried today

0:16:18.200 --> 0:16:22.360
<v Speaker 3>on that evidence, juries were skeptical enough that they wouldn't.

0:16:22.880 --> 0:16:25.840
<v Speaker 3>But in two thousand and eight, before there was a

0:16:25.880 --> 0:16:28.960
<v Speaker 3>little bit of the more sophistication that the jury seemed

0:16:29.000 --> 0:16:32.840
<v Speaker 3>to have now, and when people in that time were

0:16:33.120 --> 0:16:39.560
<v Speaker 3>afraid of the perception of increasing gun violence, Marty was convicted.

0:16:41.800 --> 0:16:46.200
<v Speaker 1>Sentenced to thirty one years to life for murder, felonious assault,

0:16:46.720 --> 0:16:48.080
<v Speaker 1>and tampering with evidence.

0:16:49.280 --> 0:16:53.360
<v Speaker 2>When they say it guilty, I'll say, I'll say how like,

0:16:53.560 --> 0:16:56.640
<v Speaker 2>I mean like what, I'm like, I look back, my

0:16:56.720 --> 0:17:00.720
<v Speaker 2>mom said we'll pill it, and I'm like like wow,

0:17:00.840 --> 0:17:05.240
<v Speaker 2>So like it it ain't kick in right away because

0:17:05.359 --> 0:17:07.400
<v Speaker 2>I still ain't know the law. I still I never

0:17:07.440 --> 0:17:10.960
<v Speaker 2>been to prison before, so I ain't know how nothing

0:17:11.160 --> 0:17:13.440
<v Speaker 2>was I ain't know how the process is with these

0:17:13.480 --> 0:17:16.199
<v Speaker 2>appeals and stuff like that. I ain't know. I just

0:17:16.240 --> 0:17:18.440
<v Speaker 2>ain't know nothing. I was lost in the whole situation.

0:17:19.320 --> 0:17:22.320
<v Speaker 1>Shortly after his conviction, while he was still trying to

0:17:22.359 --> 0:17:26.360
<v Speaker 1>process everything, Marty says, his grandma sent him a passage

0:17:26.359 --> 0:17:27.520
<v Speaker 1>from the Bible.

0:17:28.000 --> 0:17:31.080
<v Speaker 2>Song twenty three The Lord is My Shepherd. Shend me

0:17:31.080 --> 0:17:33.480
<v Speaker 2>that scripture and she said, baby, she told me, like,

0:17:33.520 --> 0:17:35.359
<v Speaker 2>you ain't gonna be able to do that without God.

0:17:35.560 --> 0:17:38.680
<v Speaker 1>So Marty says, he continued reading the Bible and started

0:17:38.720 --> 0:17:39.560
<v Speaker 1>going to church.

0:17:39.840 --> 0:17:41.640
<v Speaker 2>I need some hope, I needed some faith, I needed

0:17:41.640 --> 0:17:42.080
<v Speaker 2>some beast.

0:17:42.320 --> 0:17:44.720
<v Speaker 1>And he started to reckon with the life he led

0:17:44.760 --> 0:17:45.479
<v Speaker 1>before prison.

0:17:45.760 --> 0:17:50.840
<v Speaker 2>I'm locked up for something I ain't do. But whow

0:17:50.920 --> 0:17:52.760
<v Speaker 2>I'm locked up? So I had to start looking at

0:17:52.960 --> 0:17:56.520
<v Speaker 2>looking at that something led up to this, And that's

0:17:56.520 --> 0:18:00.000
<v Speaker 2>when it got to show in my lifestyle. The lifestyle

0:18:00.000 --> 0:18:02.200
<v Speaker 2>while I was living lay it up to this. Because

0:18:02.240 --> 0:18:03.800
<v Speaker 2>if I wan't in the streets, if I wasn't running

0:18:03.800 --> 0:18:06.720
<v Speaker 2>around saying that don't happen to them, that happened to

0:18:06.760 --> 0:18:10.280
<v Speaker 2>people like that. But I'm if I wasn't running the streets,

0:18:10.280 --> 0:18:13.320
<v Speaker 2>my name would it never came up in that at all.

0:18:13.720 --> 0:18:16.840
<v Speaker 1>So Marty says he decided he was going to change.

0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:23.280
<v Speaker 2>So I'm like, let me, let me get me together,

0:18:23.920 --> 0:18:26.760
<v Speaker 2>let me let me learn how to be a father.

0:18:27.400 --> 0:18:29.600
<v Speaker 2>So I started taking classes on dad and I and

0:18:30.560 --> 0:18:33.280
<v Speaker 2>you know, fatherhood classes don't how to be a father

0:18:33.520 --> 0:18:36.199
<v Speaker 2>or you know, like even even how to be a

0:18:36.359 --> 0:18:38.560
<v Speaker 2>husband or how to be a brother, how to be

0:18:38.720 --> 0:18:40.840
<v Speaker 2>how to beat those and what do it really mean?

0:18:40.880 --> 0:18:46.679
<v Speaker 2>Because I was taught wrong. I stay focused, and you know,

0:18:46.760 --> 0:18:53.399
<v Speaker 2>I became facilitators of programs in there, you know self,

0:18:53.480 --> 0:18:56.200
<v Speaker 2>Like we had a program called real Man where you

0:18:56.280 --> 0:18:57.960
<v Speaker 2>got guys talking to the youth that's coming and we

0:18:58.000 --> 0:18:59.919
<v Speaker 2>got guys coming there like eighteen years old. So like

0:19:00.040 --> 0:19:02.639
<v Speaker 2>I'm doing things like that through the chat pacer on

0:19:02.760 --> 0:19:07.199
<v Speaker 2>Real Man programs. Family First, I was consistent and I

0:19:07.280 --> 0:19:10.640
<v Speaker 2>worked out, exercised the lots when in the law library,

0:19:10.760 --> 0:19:12.960
<v Speaker 2>just read a lot of stuff like that, and it

0:19:13.080 --> 0:19:13.560
<v Speaker 2>changed me.

0:19:16.359 --> 0:19:19.439
<v Speaker 1>Marty put in a ton of work on himself and

0:19:19.480 --> 0:19:23.560
<v Speaker 1>his case for years. He appealed his case on issues

0:19:23.680 --> 0:19:28.160
<v Speaker 1>like suggestive witness identification because police had shown Sorels only

0:19:28.440 --> 0:19:32.160
<v Speaker 1>one photograph instead of a lineup to confirm Marty as

0:19:32.160 --> 0:19:35.960
<v Speaker 1>the shooter, plus another witness had come forward claiming that

0:19:36.040 --> 0:19:39.800
<v Speaker 1>she'd seen the shooting and Marty hadn't been involved. Also,

0:19:40.480 --> 0:19:43.239
<v Speaker 1>Marty wanted DNA testing on the shell casings found at

0:19:43.240 --> 0:19:48.119
<v Speaker 1>the scene, but all his appeals were denied. So Marty

0:19:48.200 --> 0:19:51.159
<v Speaker 1>wrote the Ohio Innocence Project. And he waited.

0:19:55.000 --> 0:19:58.000
<v Speaker 2>So one day I'm sitting up in a bed. It

0:19:58.000 --> 0:20:01.879
<v Speaker 2>was twenty twelve, and so he said, levis, do you

0:20:01.880 --> 0:20:05.320
<v Speaker 2>have a visit. So I'm like, I'm like, Damn, I

0:20:05.359 --> 0:20:07.359
<v Speaker 2>wonder who this is. I ain't got no visit set up, Like,

0:20:08.080 --> 0:20:09.960
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if somebody was coming to visit me.

0:20:10.320 --> 0:20:12.280
<v Speaker 2>So I'm like, so I'm thinking, I'm like, oh, that

0:20:12.400 --> 0:20:14.480
<v Speaker 2>must be somebody important. So I went ahead and hurry

0:20:14.520 --> 0:20:15.320
<v Speaker 2>up put my stuff on.

0:20:15.680 --> 0:20:18.760
<v Speaker 1>When Marty got to the visiting room, it was Donald.

0:20:19.080 --> 0:20:21.040
<v Speaker 2>So I come in there. He got he gotta he

0:20:21.080 --> 0:20:23.720
<v Speaker 2>got a missus Donald. He got a look on his face.

0:20:24.359 --> 0:20:26.159
<v Speaker 2>Mister Donald got a serious look on his face. He

0:20:26.359 --> 0:20:28.600
<v Speaker 2>you know I'm coming in here, Like hold on, I

0:20:28.640 --> 0:20:31.000
<v Speaker 2>know he want he won't playing no games. So I'm like,

0:20:31.040 --> 0:20:32.680
<v Speaker 2>he coming there, you know, he talking to me. I'll

0:20:32.680 --> 0:20:35.280
<v Speaker 2>tell him he's going though. He say he said, give

0:20:35.320 --> 0:20:37.320
<v Speaker 2>me a few days and I'm gonna talk to somebody.

0:20:37.359 --> 0:20:39.080
<v Speaker 2>I ain't telling you it's a goal yet, but I'm

0:20:39.119 --> 0:20:41.399
<v Speaker 2>gonna talk to somebody and just call me Monday and

0:20:41.400 --> 0:20:43.439
<v Speaker 2>see what's up. So I went back praying, but I

0:20:43.480 --> 0:20:46.000
<v Speaker 2>called my mama, like and it's a project. Can't see me.

0:20:46.040 --> 0:20:47.199
<v Speaker 2>I don't think the guy liked me.

0:20:48.359 --> 0:20:51.680
<v Speaker 1>But meanwhile, Donald couldn't wait to get started.

0:20:51.920 --> 0:20:54.000
<v Speaker 3>I came back to the office and I started telling

0:20:54.040 --> 0:20:56.480
<v Speaker 3>everybody either they got to senizent guy Marty Levingston, and

0:20:56.520 --> 0:20:57.479
<v Speaker 3>we gotta get him out and here.

0:20:57.560 --> 0:21:00.679
<v Speaker 1>So Donald and the Ohio Innocence Project to work on

0:21:00.720 --> 0:21:05.200
<v Speaker 1>Marty's case for years. They tried to find new evidence

0:21:05.240 --> 0:21:08.880
<v Speaker 1>to get Marty back in court. Then their break came

0:21:09.040 --> 0:21:12.160
<v Speaker 1>in twenty twenty one. Because of developments in what's known

0:21:12.240 --> 0:21:16.760
<v Speaker 1>as touch DNA testing. Donald and his team applied for

0:21:16.880 --> 0:21:20.359
<v Speaker 1>post conviction testing on all the evidence that hadn't been

0:21:20.400 --> 0:21:25.600
<v Speaker 1>analyzed for prince and DNA during the original investigation. They

0:21:25.640 --> 0:21:29.360
<v Speaker 1>were appealing to the same judge that had denied Marty's

0:21:29.400 --> 0:21:33.240
<v Speaker 1>previous appeal, but this time the judge wanted to have

0:21:33.280 --> 0:21:37.040
<v Speaker 1>a hearing to find out what evidence existed that could

0:21:37.200 --> 0:21:39.480
<v Speaker 1>prove Marty's innocence, and she said.

0:21:39.320 --> 0:21:41.200
<v Speaker 3>Maybe I'll grant it, but I want to have the hearing,

0:21:41.280 --> 0:21:44.439
<v Speaker 3>and I want to make this state tell us what

0:21:44.520 --> 0:21:46.280
<v Speaker 3>evidence exists that could be tested.

0:21:46.640 --> 0:21:51.680
<v Speaker 1>But that never happened. Before any DNA testing could materialize,

0:21:52.200 --> 0:21:55.880
<v Speaker 1>prosecutors went back to Marty with a new deal, and.

0:21:55.880 --> 0:21:58.920
<v Speaker 3>At that point the prosecution was willing to offer what's

0:21:58.960 --> 0:22:00.320
<v Speaker 3>called this dark please deal.

0:22:00.760 --> 0:22:04.840
<v Speaker 4>So the key to understanding what a dark plea is

0:22:04.840 --> 0:22:06.200
<v Speaker 4>is when it's offered.

0:22:06.680 --> 0:22:09.000
<v Speaker 1>Okay, this is Justice Michael Donnelly.

0:22:09.640 --> 0:22:14.040
<v Speaker 4>I presently serve as an Associate Justice on the Ohio

0:22:14.080 --> 0:22:18.840
<v Speaker 4>Supreme Court, where I've served since two thousand and nineteen.

0:22:19.240 --> 0:22:22.520
<v Speaker 1>Justice Donnelly is an expert and a vocal critic of

0:22:22.560 --> 0:22:27.160
<v Speaker 1>what he calls dark pleas, which are deals prosecutors make

0:22:27.200 --> 0:22:31.240
<v Speaker 1>behind closed doors with people who claim they've been wrongfully convicted,

0:22:31.359 --> 0:22:33.960
<v Speaker 1>who are looking for a new trial, like Marty.

0:22:34.320 --> 0:22:36.959
<v Speaker 4>When you're on the front lines of the system and

0:22:37.040 --> 0:22:40.280
<v Speaker 4>you see the injustice that occurs as a result of

0:22:40.320 --> 0:22:45.800
<v Speaker 4>a non transparent system and people being coerced into plea bargains,

0:22:45.800 --> 0:22:48.960
<v Speaker 4>that should not I think it's an obligation on all

0:22:49.080 --> 0:22:50.240
<v Speaker 4>judges to speak.

0:22:50.040 --> 0:22:53.040
<v Speaker 1>Up but he didn't always have dreams of advocating for

0:22:53.320 --> 0:22:59.280
<v Speaker 1>justice and practicing law. He actually wanted to be a musician.

0:23:02.840 --> 0:23:06.080
<v Speaker 4>So the music career didn't work out the way I expected.

0:23:06.200 --> 0:23:09.720
<v Speaker 4>But I've been able to incorporate my love of music

0:23:09.880 --> 0:23:10.680
<v Speaker 4>into my life.

0:23:10.760 --> 0:23:13.000
<v Speaker 1>In his mid forties, he started a band.

0:23:13.560 --> 0:23:16.000
<v Speaker 4>We're called Faith and Whiskey, and our motto is, if

0:23:16.000 --> 0:23:18.359
<v Speaker 4>you don't have one, you better have the other. We

0:23:18.480 --> 0:23:22.360
<v Speaker 4>do a lot of benefits, including the Legal Aid benefit

0:23:22.440 --> 0:23:26.200
<v Speaker 4>here in Cleveland, which is the legal event of the summer.

0:23:26.240 --> 0:23:28.359
<v Speaker 4>I call it the Jam for Justice.

0:23:28.640 --> 0:23:31.440
<v Speaker 1>So you find being a rocker at night Supreme Court

0:23:31.600 --> 0:23:33.720
<v Speaker 1>judge by day they work well.

0:23:33.600 --> 0:23:35.680
<v Speaker 4>Say yeah, well, my kids think it's cool.

0:23:36.119 --> 0:23:39.320
<v Speaker 1>Justice Donnelly says he used law school as a delay

0:23:39.440 --> 0:23:42.679
<v Speaker 1>tactic to get his music career off the ground. But

0:23:42.760 --> 0:23:46.280
<v Speaker 1>next thing he knew, he was an assistant county prosecutor

0:23:46.640 --> 0:23:47.119
<v Speaker 1>and then.

0:23:47.040 --> 0:23:50.480
<v Speaker 4>Went into civil liedication, practiced a total of twelve years

0:23:50.480 --> 0:23:53.760
<v Speaker 4>before taking the bench as a trial court judge.

0:23:54.080 --> 0:23:57.719
<v Speaker 1>Justice Donnelly was a trial court judge for fourteen years.

0:23:58.040 --> 0:24:05.760
<v Speaker 4>So I'm fully aware through my observations during those fourteen

0:24:05.840 --> 0:24:14.400
<v Speaker 4>years of the coercive nature of plea bargaining as it exists.

0:24:14.080 --> 0:24:18.359
<v Speaker 1>In the modern day please or deals where the defense, prosecution,

0:24:18.600 --> 0:24:21.199
<v Speaker 1>and judge come to an agreement on a conviction and

0:24:21.280 --> 0:24:23.960
<v Speaker 1>sentencing instead of at trial.

0:24:24.600 --> 0:24:27.480
<v Speaker 4>And very early on in my career, and what I

0:24:27.560 --> 0:24:30.080
<v Speaker 4>describe as one of the biggest epiphanies of my career,

0:24:30.960 --> 0:24:34.080
<v Speaker 4>I began the question the ethics of what takes place

0:24:34.080 --> 0:24:34.920
<v Speaker 4>in that back room.

0:24:35.080 --> 0:24:38.159
<v Speaker 1>He says, judges have outsized power when it comes to

0:24:38.280 --> 0:24:39.920
<v Speaker 1>backroom negotiations.

0:24:40.280 --> 0:24:45.359
<v Speaker 4>There's no objective criteria that judges use to accept or

0:24:45.440 --> 0:24:48.840
<v Speaker 4>reject a plea bargain. Like sometimes you might be in

0:24:48.880 --> 0:24:52.080
<v Speaker 4>a judge's back room chambers and that you've come to

0:24:52.160 --> 0:24:56.879
<v Speaker 4>an agreed sentence with the prosecution and the defense, and

0:24:56.920 --> 0:25:00.600
<v Speaker 4>the judge might say, I don't agree with that. I

0:25:00.600 --> 0:25:03.320
<v Speaker 4>think this person has to do five or ten or whatever.

0:25:03.760 --> 0:25:07.240
<v Speaker 4>And this gets set in the back room and the

0:25:07.359 --> 0:25:10.840
<v Speaker 4>questions never raise. You know what guides the judge to

0:25:10.920 --> 0:25:11.320
<v Speaker 4>do that.

0:25:11.680 --> 0:25:14.439
<v Speaker 1>Now, when it comes to people like Marty, people have

0:25:14.440 --> 0:25:17.879
<v Speaker 1>been convicted but claim they're innocent, Justice Donnelly says, the

0:25:17.960 --> 0:25:21.000
<v Speaker 1>deck is even further stacked against them.

0:25:21.200 --> 0:25:26.480
<v Speaker 4>It is very difficult to have the court system look

0:25:26.520 --> 0:25:30.720
<v Speaker 4>at your case for a second time and reconsider.

0:25:30.040 --> 0:25:32.720
<v Speaker 1>It, and judges can take their time deciding on a

0:25:32.720 --> 0:25:34.280
<v Speaker 1>post conviction case.

0:25:34.080 --> 0:25:39.000
<v Speaker 4>And the judges sometimes let those motions languish for years.

0:25:39.480 --> 0:25:43.080
<v Speaker 4>For years, there's no speedy trial or the equivalent of

0:25:43.080 --> 0:25:45.120
<v Speaker 4>speedy trial rights for innocence claimants.

0:25:45.440 --> 0:25:48.679
<v Speaker 1>In Marty's case, it took several rounds before a judge

0:25:48.680 --> 0:25:52.399
<v Speaker 1>even agreed to allow DNA testing, which could have opened

0:25:52.440 --> 0:25:59.240
<v Speaker 1>the doors for a brand new trial. But before Marty

0:25:59.320 --> 0:26:02.920
<v Speaker 1>got a second chance at proving his innocence, the prosecution

0:26:03.080 --> 0:26:23.240
<v Speaker 1>approached him with a new deal, the dark Plea. Here's

0:26:23.280 --> 0:26:25.359
<v Speaker 1>Marty's attorney, Donald Caster again.

0:26:26.000 --> 0:26:28.600
<v Speaker 3>So what they said is, look, we will support emotion

0:26:28.760 --> 0:26:31.040
<v Speaker 3>for a new trial, and the basis for the motion

0:26:31.160 --> 0:26:33.240
<v Speaker 3>of the new trial is just going to be we,

0:26:33.359 --> 0:26:37.240
<v Speaker 3>the prosecutors, believe that Marty was over sentenced. In exchange,

0:26:37.400 --> 0:26:41.199
<v Speaker 3>we will expect Marty to plead guilty to involuntary manslaughter.

0:26:41.560 --> 0:26:44.920
<v Speaker 3>He will be immediately eligible for release and the case

0:26:44.920 --> 0:26:47.520
<v Speaker 3>will be behind him. And it's a tough thing. I

0:26:47.560 --> 0:26:48.480
<v Speaker 3>don't you.

0:26:48.440 --> 0:26:50.560
<v Speaker 1>Know what was the option if you didn't take.

0:26:50.440 --> 0:26:53.760
<v Speaker 3>That, to keep fighting over the DNA evidence, And even

0:26:53.800 --> 0:26:57.200
<v Speaker 3>if everything fell perfectly into place, it would be another

0:26:57.359 --> 0:27:00.320
<v Speaker 3>at least couple of years of litigation before we got

0:27:00.320 --> 0:27:01.040
<v Speaker 3>a new trial order.

0:27:01.040 --> 0:27:01.480
<v Speaker 2>At least.

0:27:01.520 --> 0:27:04.280
<v Speaker 1>Donald says Marty had a tough choice to make.

0:27:05.200 --> 0:27:09.160
<v Speaker 3>Marty was was getting anxious his parents were getting older. Yes,

0:27:09.440 --> 0:27:11.520
<v Speaker 3>he wanted to see them again. His parents, his kids

0:27:11.560 --> 0:27:13.480
<v Speaker 3>are growing up without him.

0:27:13.560 --> 0:27:17.240
<v Speaker 1>Justice Donnelly says, this is the crux of the dark plea.

0:27:17.640 --> 0:27:20.680
<v Speaker 4>Do you want to take the risk of what's behind

0:27:20.680 --> 0:27:23.320
<v Speaker 4>door number three? You want to take the risk, you

0:27:23.320 --> 0:27:27.200
<v Speaker 4>can do that, or here's the keys to your jail cell,

0:27:27.960 --> 0:27:31.200
<v Speaker 4>which one you're gonna take. That's that's exactly what happened.

0:27:31.400 --> 0:27:32.080
<v Speaker 2>What's happening.

0:27:32.680 --> 0:27:36.160
<v Speaker 4>So I've never criticized anyone for taking the dark plea

0:27:36.240 --> 0:27:37.640
<v Speaker 4>because it's so unconscionable.

0:27:38.160 --> 0:27:41.080
<v Speaker 1>So even though Marty would have to forego the opportunity

0:27:41.160 --> 0:27:45.119
<v Speaker 1>to prove his innocence, he decided to take the plea.

0:27:45.880 --> 0:27:49.640
<v Speaker 2>You know what, I'm gonna go a hit and take it.

0:27:50.080 --> 0:27:53.080
<v Speaker 2>I know, I'm gonn probably be on parole and I'm

0:27:53.119 --> 0:27:54.800
<v Speaker 2>just go I'm just get out. I'm just go get out.

0:27:54.840 --> 0:27:56.760
<v Speaker 2>I'm just gonna get out and prove them wrong and

0:27:56.840 --> 0:28:00.240
<v Speaker 2>show them wrong. Like nah, I'm I'm no. I was

0:28:00.280 --> 0:28:04.199
<v Speaker 2>not who y'all who? I was not that, So you

0:28:04.240 --> 0:28:05.480
<v Speaker 2>took it, y'all took it.

0:28:06.200 --> 0:28:10.520
<v Speaker 1>On February sixteenth, twenty twenty three, Marty stood in front

0:28:10.560 --> 0:28:12.159
<v Speaker 1>of Judge Wendy Cross.

0:28:12.560 --> 0:28:18.680
<v Speaker 2>So you're nervous, I'm nervous, a heart beating. That's when.

0:28:21.560 --> 0:28:24.399
<v Speaker 2>That's when she said, it's a good day. The judge

0:28:24.400 --> 0:28:27.199
<v Speaker 2>said that. Judge Cross said it's a good day, and

0:28:30.720 --> 0:28:34.480
<v Speaker 2>they she said everything that she you know and not

0:28:34.760 --> 0:28:36.679
<v Speaker 2>she said you will be going home to your family.

0:28:36.720 --> 0:28:38.960
<v Speaker 2>Then I just looked up, like.

0:28:39.080 --> 0:28:42.000
<v Speaker 1>What did anyone like? Did you hear anything? Was there

0:28:42.040 --> 0:28:44.880
<v Speaker 1>a gas for a scream or fab Yeah?

0:28:44.880 --> 0:28:49.040
<v Speaker 2>They had to quiet down yesterday. Yes you heard, I

0:28:49.080 --> 0:28:53.560
<v Speaker 2>heard them. It was different than when they said guilty, guilty,

0:28:53.600 --> 0:28:56.720
<v Speaker 2>it was crying and screaming. This time it was joy.

0:28:57.240 --> 0:29:03.600
<v Speaker 3>Dark pleas are a really bittersweet moment for everyone. In fact,

0:29:04.200 --> 0:29:07.080
<v Speaker 3>when Marty went home finally, I think what Judge Cross

0:29:07.120 --> 0:29:10.800
<v Speaker 3>said exactly was it's always a good day when.

0:29:10.800 --> 0:29:12.200
<v Speaker 2>Justice was done was done.

0:29:12.240 --> 0:29:14.160
<v Speaker 3>And that was hard for me to hear because I

0:29:14.240 --> 0:29:16.239
<v Speaker 3>was sitting in the room, and while I was very

0:29:16.280 --> 0:29:18.400
<v Speaker 3>happy that Marty was going home, it didn't feel to

0:29:18.440 --> 0:29:19.480
<v Speaker 3>me like justice.

0:29:19.240 --> 0:29:20.080
<v Speaker 2>Was happening that day.

0:29:21.680 --> 0:29:25.720
<v Speaker 1>That bitter sweet feeling is one Justice Donnelly shares, which

0:29:25.720 --> 0:29:28.360
<v Speaker 1>is why he's made it his mission to stop the

0:29:28.400 --> 0:29:30.160
<v Speaker 1>practice of dark Please.

0:29:30.280 --> 0:29:33.120
<v Speaker 4>This is the way power works in the dark.

0:29:33.400 --> 0:29:35.800
<v Speaker 1>If it were up to him, the judge in Marty's

0:29:35.840 --> 0:29:39.480
<v Speaker 1>case wouldn't have allowed for a backroom deal with the prosecutors.

0:29:39.800 --> 0:29:41.920
<v Speaker 1>She would have held a hearing out in the open.

0:29:42.480 --> 0:29:45.959
<v Speaker 1>Let Marty's lawyers prove his case and make the prosecution

0:29:46.480 --> 0:29:47.720
<v Speaker 1>stand by theirs.

0:29:48.120 --> 0:29:50.640
<v Speaker 4>Because when a hearing takes place in an open court

0:29:50.680 --> 0:29:54.760
<v Speaker 4>where the press contend it can attend and observe, you

0:29:54.920 --> 0:29:58.520
<v Speaker 4>see the merits or the lack of merits rise or

0:29:58.600 --> 0:30:03.120
<v Speaker 4>fall to that standard that the innocent advocates are trying

0:30:03.160 --> 0:30:05.920
<v Speaker 4>to get. Hey, the theory of guilt that was told

0:30:05.960 --> 0:30:09.360
<v Speaker 4>to the original jury has been completely undermine and then

0:30:09.400 --> 0:30:11.880
<v Speaker 4>it becomes clear to the judge you have to put

0:30:11.920 --> 0:30:14.720
<v Speaker 4>the defendant or a new trial or not.

0:30:15.040 --> 0:30:18.720
<v Speaker 1>As far as in his own courtroom, Justice Donnelly decided

0:30:18.880 --> 0:30:23.479
<v Speaker 1>long ago to put all backroom conversations on the record.

0:30:24.080 --> 0:30:27.200
<v Speaker 4>That way, everybody's held accountable, the prosecutor of the defense,

0:30:27.240 --> 0:30:28.840
<v Speaker 4>lawyer and me, the judge.

0:30:29.320 --> 0:30:33.200
<v Speaker 1>Justice Donnelly actually coined the phrase dark plea because he says,

0:30:33.200 --> 0:30:35.320
<v Speaker 1>if you can name it, you can fix it.

0:30:35.720 --> 0:30:39.880
<v Speaker 4>If this term were to become commonplace in saying, and

0:30:39.920 --> 0:30:42.360
<v Speaker 4>you could say, judge, they want to offer me a

0:30:42.520 --> 0:30:45.320
<v Speaker 4>dark flea, and the judge could say, no, we're not

0:30:45.400 --> 0:30:46.080
<v Speaker 4>letting that happen.

0:30:47.360 --> 0:30:52.520
<v Speaker 1>Marty was released in February of last year into the

0:30:52.640 --> 0:30:59.960
<v Speaker 1>arms of his loved ones, and since getting out, Marty

0:31:00.040 --> 0:31:02.920
<v Speaker 1>he has wasted no time catching up on life.

0:31:03.120 --> 0:31:09.640
<v Speaker 2>Everything been great. You know when I first came home.

0:31:09.680 --> 0:31:12.600
<v Speaker 2>You know, I got married two months later to my wife,

0:31:12.680 --> 0:31:26.240
<v Speaker 2>Latoy Elevenston, and we got married April to eighth, and

0:31:26.360 --> 0:31:30.040
<v Speaker 2>since then it's just been it been, it been because

0:31:30.080 --> 0:31:33.800
<v Speaker 2>I'm learning now. So she she she we we kind

0:31:33.800 --> 0:31:36.479
<v Speaker 2>of bump. Here is a lot because I'm I'm still learning.

0:31:36.600 --> 0:31:37.320
<v Speaker 2>She been out here.

0:31:37.480 --> 0:31:40.360
<v Speaker 1>So what's one of the hardest things You're learning?

0:31:41.320 --> 0:31:43.920
<v Speaker 2>Patience? Like being patient with things, like being in line

0:31:43.960 --> 0:31:48.440
<v Speaker 2>for something, or even even like you know, just even

0:31:48.480 --> 0:31:51.400
<v Speaker 2>dealing with finances and stuff. It's just different little things

0:31:51.440 --> 0:31:52.480
<v Speaker 2>that I have to learn.

0:31:52.680 --> 0:31:54.840
<v Speaker 1>What's what's it like being back with your kids? I

0:31:54.840 --> 0:31:56.600
<v Speaker 1>mean some of them you really didn't even see them

0:31:56.600 --> 0:31:57.000
<v Speaker 1>grow up.

0:31:57.200 --> 0:31:59.800
<v Speaker 2>I'm starting to learn how important I am and my

0:32:00.000 --> 0:32:04.080
<v Speaker 2>responsibilities as a man in the house, you know, because

0:32:04.680 --> 0:32:06.400
<v Speaker 2>you gotta think I'm coming inside of the house with

0:32:06.480 --> 0:32:08.800
<v Speaker 2>some children that don't don't know me. You ain't grow

0:32:08.880 --> 0:32:12.480
<v Speaker 2>up with me. So like they gotta learn my space.

0:32:12.560 --> 0:32:14.760
<v Speaker 2>I gotta learn. I gotta learn what to say. Not

0:32:16.720 --> 0:32:18.320
<v Speaker 2>they like they learning me too.

0:32:18.840 --> 0:32:22.000
<v Speaker 1>Marty works as a stationary steam engineer and has a

0:32:22.000 --> 0:32:26.320
<v Speaker 1>clothing line with his cousin called Extravagant Culture Department, and

0:32:26.360 --> 0:32:30.400
<v Speaker 1>he's been attending speaking engagements with Justice Donnelly and Donald

0:32:30.520 --> 0:32:34.400
<v Speaker 1>at the OIP the Ohio Innocence Project to advocate against

0:32:34.440 --> 0:32:39.440
<v Speaker 1>wrongful convictions and dark Please Marty not only considers them colleagues,

0:32:39.880 --> 0:32:41.040
<v Speaker 1>but family.

0:32:41.240 --> 0:32:43.600
<v Speaker 2>Or if he's been with me all the way through,

0:32:44.480 --> 0:32:47.440
<v Speaker 2>you know, like just even like if I'm going through something,

0:32:48.080 --> 0:32:50.120
<v Speaker 2>I could call them for anything, Like I mean, I

0:32:50.200 --> 0:32:52.600
<v Speaker 2>call him all during the day, Like I call him

0:32:52.600 --> 0:32:56.480
<v Speaker 2>mister Donald, take some callum. I call anybody from down

0:32:56.520 --> 0:33:00.560
<v Speaker 2>there and they go pick up to me and it's

0:33:00.600 --> 0:33:03.680
<v Speaker 2>not fake. If I need to see him, I still

0:33:03.720 --> 0:33:05.600
<v Speaker 2>go down to the office all the time down on

0:33:05.800 --> 0:33:08.840
<v Speaker 2>the college. I think I'll come in there more to anybody.

0:33:09.160 --> 0:33:13.240
<v Speaker 3>You may be there more than I am, so I always.

0:33:12.960 --> 0:33:16.120
<v Speaker 2>Go down there and check on everybody. It's my family.

0:33:16.200 --> 0:33:27.680
<v Speaker 1>So thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction with Maggie Freeling.

0:33:28.040 --> 0:33:31.560
<v Speaker 1>Please support your local innocence organization. You can go to

0:33:31.600 --> 0:33:33.760
<v Speaker 1>the links in the episode description to see how you

0:33:33.800 --> 0:33:36.680
<v Speaker 1>can help and to read more about Justice Donnelly's work

0:33:36.760 --> 0:33:41.160
<v Speaker 1>on Dark Please. This episode was written by me Maggie Freeling,

0:33:41.320 --> 0:33:44.840
<v Speaker 1>with story editing and mixing by senior producer Rebecca Ibada.

0:33:45.280 --> 0:33:49.200
<v Speaker 1>Our producer is Kathleen Fink. Our researcher Shelby Sorels, with

0:33:49.280 --> 0:33:52.560
<v Speaker 1>additional mixing by Josh Allen and additional production help by

0:33:52.640 --> 0:33:56.760
<v Speaker 1>Jeff Cliburn and Connor Hall. Executive producers are Jason Flahm,

0:33:56.840 --> 0:33:59.880
<v Speaker 1>Jeff Kempler, and Kevin Wurtis. The music is by three

0:34:00.040 --> 0:34:03.880
<v Speaker 1>time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Make sure to follow

0:34:03.960 --> 0:34:06.680
<v Speaker 1>us on all social media platforms at Lava for Good

0:34:06.720 --> 0:34:09.279
<v Speaker 1>and at Wrongful Conviction. You can also follow me on

0:34:09.360 --> 0:34:13.480
<v Speaker 1>all platforms at Maggie Freeling. Wrongful Conviction with Maggie Freeling

0:34:13.600 --> 0:34:16.680
<v Speaker 1>is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts in association

0:34:16.800 --> 0:34:18.480
<v Speaker 1>with Signal Company Number one