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Speaker 2: Love to have him more.
Speaker 1: Nick Wright, my buddy at FS one. We should say this.
Speaker 1: This just broke before we did this twenty minutes before.
Speaker 1: Bill Belichick three years, thirty million dollars will now coach
Speaker 1: North Carolina. I've said before he won forty four percent
Speaker 1: of his games in the NFL on two different teams
Speaker 1: franchises without Tom Brady. I mean, you know, four or
Speaker 1: five in Cleveland losing records first year, Bledsoe losing record,
Speaker 1: last two years, No Brady losing record. And I think
Speaker 1: the game culturally has changed. Players have more power. It's
Speaker 1: more of an offensive league. I don't see him being
Speaker 1: a huge hit in North Carolina the advantage. It's a
Speaker 1: terrible conference. It's just it's really bad. There's now if
Speaker 1: he went to the big ten of the SEC, I
Speaker 1: think he'd get crushed. Do you think he has any
Speaker 1: success at Carolina so well?
Speaker 2: I mean, listen, you obviously know the college game better
Speaker 2: than I do. Uh And but I had a similar instinct,
Speaker 2: which is the question is can you win the ACC
Speaker 2: or hell, you know, can you come and just make
Speaker 2: the ACC Championship game? Like the ACC got two teams
Speaker 2: in the playoff this year, right, Clemson and SMU, so
Speaker 2: like there's more than one. There's more than one path.
Speaker 2: I my instant reaction was not really about how good
Speaker 2: he's going to be at North Carolina. It's about how
Speaker 2: shocking this is. And this is like, to me, at least,
Speaker 2: this is shocking. I Colin, eleven months ago, you and
Speaker 2: I on TV and on the pod talked about should
Speaker 2: the following playoff teams, double digit win teams fire their
Speaker 2: head coach to bring in Bill Belichick? The Dallas Cowboys,
Speaker 2: the Philadelphia Eagles, the Buffalo Bills. It was a if
Speaker 2: they collapsed type of thing when it looked like the
Speaker 2: season was going going to go wrong. That was eleven
Speaker 2: months ago for it to be us to narratively be there,
Speaker 2: and now because I think he's yes, he's taking this
Speaker 2: because Legacy and his son and I get that. But
Speaker 2: I also think he got the message, buddy, you're probably
Speaker 2: going to be shut out of the NFL coaching church again.
Speaker 2: I assumed last year there would be a fight for
Speaker 2: Bill Belichick. Instead, he got one interview in Atlanta and
Speaker 2: they passed on him for a different defensive head coach.
Speaker 1: And so who had been fired? That to me is
Speaker 1: who had been fired?
Speaker 2: Right? That to me is shocking. And you know, you
Speaker 2: I don't want to say enjoy conspiracy seat theories because
Speaker 2: that's not it, but you enjoy kind of as I do,
Speaker 2: like why thinking about why did this happen? What could
Speaker 2: be going on behind the scenes. I do wonder how
Speaker 2: much poison was put in the ear of other NFL
Speaker 2: owners by Robert Krafft. Yeah, because for Belichick to truly
Speaker 2: believe no one is going to hire me, that to
Speaker 2: me is that is shocking, like truly truly shocking to
Speaker 2: where he preemptively takes this North Carolina job.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think the message for me in this Belichick
Speaker 1: reminds me of Bobby Knight is that Bobby Knight was
Speaker 1: viewed in his prime as the best coach. He at
Speaker 1: times could be gruff, you know, mean spirited. In the end,
Speaker 1: could not grasp the new culture. Bobby Knight the one
Speaker 1: and done, you know Belichick player empowerment rule changes which
Speaker 1: Andy Reid has seamlessly bounced through like multiple different cultural
Speaker 1: changes in the NFL. And then at the end, basically
Speaker 1: Bobby Knight was just trying to get his son a
Speaker 1: head coaching job, and nobody would offer this former genius
Speaker 1: a job no legitimate school would. And that's Belichick, is
Speaker 1: that now he's been reduced to now it's three years
Speaker 1: and thirty million dollars, like Bobby Knight. Basically he's taking
Speaker 1: this job to set his son up for a job
Speaker 1: and can't get any legitimate offers. And I think it
Speaker 1: here's the parallel, is that Bobby was all about retaining power,
Speaker 1: and that was really at the heart of Bobby Knight's
Speaker 1: strength as virtue and his hindrance late is that nobody
Speaker 1: wanted to hire Bobby because you hadn't basically give total
Speaker 1: control to him. And that's Bill's problem. His personnel decisions
Speaker 1: are horrible. Now he's had a couple of defensive hits.
Speaker 1: He hasn't drafted an offensive Pro Bowl level player probably
Speaker 1: since Kronk. But it's it's the unwillingness of older successful
Speaker 1: men to relinquish any power, the need for control.
Speaker 2: So so let me so I do at some point
Speaker 2: because you're interested in this like I am, want to
Speaker 2: discuss how we think Belichick versus Andy is going to
Speaker 2: play out over the next three, five, ten years. But
Speaker 2: before we go to that, one of the things that
Speaker 2: I like doing when I'm on with you is kind
Speaker 2: of you know, I don't want to say straying from sports,
Speaker 2: but which go a lot of places. Does that worry you?
Speaker 2: For you? And by that, I mean because I think
Speaker 2: about it, which is like, man, so many legends across
Speaker 2: so many industries.
Speaker 3: The ending sucks, like the the I the I thought
Speaker 3: it was kind of unfair, and I vocally defended him
Speaker 3: on the show, But I think about broadcasting that there
Speaker 3: was in you know, in October, you know, there was
Speaker 3: a raining chorus on social media of you know who sucks?
Speaker 2: Al Michaels and Bob Costas. Ye what are those guys doing?
Speaker 2: And I'm like, you gotta be kidding me. These are
Speaker 2: like the legends of the industry. But Al was getting
Speaker 2: bad games, and people didn't like the way Bob called
Speaker 2: baseball games, even though that's the way he called baseball
Speaker 2: games forever. And I'm like, well, that's that's not a
Speaker 2: great ending you brought up, Bobby Knight. I you know,
Speaker 2: most people don't get or don't execute Johnny Carson, and
Speaker 2: so when you see so many of these guys not
Speaker 2: figuring out an exit, like what is I'm not talking
Speaker 2: like you're not close to the end of your career.
Speaker 1: But you know what I.
Speaker 2: Mean, Like it's it bounced on my head, like why
Speaker 2: does nobody be why are people not okay leaving? Like
Speaker 2: He's accomplished everything, he's got all the money, he seems
Speaker 2: to be happy socially, Like I don't, I don't get it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's concerning, Well, what did Johnny Carson have?
Speaker 1: Who had a great exit that the others didn't? Johnny
Speaker 1: Carson Productions. That's why I created the volume. I will
Speaker 1: manage and be an executive, not a broadcast on your
Speaker 1: own company. Yeah, so, and I enjoyed do that, so
Speaker 1: I created the volume largely so when networks are not interested,
Speaker 1: I will move into a management position. And I love
Speaker 1: that in a production position, that's what I like to do.
Speaker 2: So why do you? But so why do you think? Well,
Speaker 2: I think it was not on the board for Bill
Speaker 2: to be like when I'm done with the Patriots, I'm
Speaker 2: just done, Like I have six super Bowls, I've made
Speaker 2: twenty plus million for the last however many years, Like
Speaker 2: I'm seventy years old. I evidently want to date incredibly
Speaker 2: young women and travel Like why why is what that's
Speaker 2: fascinating to me? Like why you wouldn't just call it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. He probably doesn't have a ton of hobbies, although
Speaker 1: he does have a boat and he golfs, so he
Speaker 1: has enough. It's a good question. If Tom Brady would
Speaker 1: have left for Tampa and failed, I think he would
Speaker 1: have been more comfortable just saying it's over. We were
Speaker 1: great for each other and we were never quite the
Speaker 1: same without each other. But Brady Jettison's the Patriots wins
Speaker 1: a super Bowl first year with Tampa.
Speaker 2: And then almost wins an MVP and is also yeah,
Speaker 2: and is better than he was his last couple of
Speaker 2: years in New England.
Speaker 1: Yes, so I think that put that, and I don't
Speaker 1: think Bill would acknowledge that, But they are linked forever. Yep.
Speaker 1: Montana and Bill Walsh are linked forever, and Bird and
Speaker 1: Magic on different teams are linked forever. And so I
Speaker 1: think I think when Tom left and succeeded it puts it.
Speaker 1: It raises doubt about a guy that had five years
Speaker 1: in Cleveland, four of them losing lost in his first
Speaker 1: year with Drew Bledsoe starting and lost two years in
Speaker 1: a row, and kind of I mean Matt Patricia to
Speaker 1: offensive coordinator, it was a bit of a tone deaf
Speaker 1: clown show. And so I think I think I think
Speaker 1: there's I think that's part of it. I think we
Speaker 1: tend to and this is incredibly unhealthy. We tend to
Speaker 1: compare ourselves to others. And I think it's just my
Speaker 1: journey is much more Johnny Carson his production company, and oh,
Speaker 1: I've told you this before. My idol is Oprah. It's
Speaker 1: not a sportscaster, right, so her production company and Carson's
Speaker 1: production company is much more attractive to me as an
Speaker 1: ending than it is broadcasting when I'm seventy four.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I just I there's so many of and
Speaker 2: you see it, I mean, you're seeing it, I feel
Speaker 2: like right now with Aaron Rogers. Yeah, in a different way.
Speaker 2: And you see it with athletes more and it feels different,
Speaker 2: I guess because we're more used to it. And it's
Speaker 2: just like, Okay, it's a young man's game. You're not
Speaker 2: a young man. But it just I don't know if
Speaker 2: it's the fame, attention, money being all kind of addictive,
Speaker 2: but it is. Bill Belichick is probably going to be
Speaker 2: coaching in the fucking Pop Tarts Bowl next year, and
Speaker 2: that's that's that's unbelievable. Like, that's really unbelievable. When this
Speaker 2: time last year, I was discussing should the Eagles preemptively
Speaker 2: fire Nick Sirianni to hire Bill Belichick? Should the Bills
Speaker 2: fire Shown McDermott just to be the first market for
Speaker 2: Bill Belichick? And I don't know, man, Like, now, listen,
Speaker 2: somebody will dig this clip up in thirty years when
Speaker 2: I'm you know, when I'm doing Fortnite play by play
Speaker 2: on Twitch because nobody else will give me a job,
Speaker 2: They'll be like time comes for us all.
Speaker 1: But it is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's stunning. It's really stunning. And and I
Speaker 2: just I when I first saw the report a week
Speaker 2: ago and shout out to Inside Carolina dot Com, which
Speaker 2: beat everyone on this story by days every time. But
Speaker 2: when I first saw it, I was like, oh, so
Speaker 2: Inside Carolina dot Com is just as wrong as they
Speaker 2: can be and don't care. Yeah, and then it's like, wait,
Speaker 2: they're meeting in Manhattan for five hours. Wait he made
Speaker 2: a four hundred page organizational bible, like, oh, this is
Speaker 2: gonna happen, and now it's happening, which does bring me
Speaker 2: so the the Andy Reid thing. I only some people
Speaker 2: realize how close it is the Shula record. So Andy's
Speaker 2: at two ninety six, Shola is at three forty seven.
Speaker 2: Belichick's at three thirty three. So Andy is fifty one
Speaker 2: wins away. He has. Prior to this year, he had
Speaker 2: coached Mahomes for six years. They had ninety wins regular
Speaker 2: season and playoffs those six years, that's exactly fifteen a year.
Speaker 2: So if Andy coaches, you know, for three more years,
Speaker 2: he should be right there. And if he coaches for four,
Speaker 2: he'll have it. He's five playoff wins behind Bill. He'll
Speaker 2: get that in the next Siy would have, which is
Speaker 2: really remarkable when you consider you you'd think it would
Speaker 2: be thirty behind. It's remarkable, it's and so that's so
Speaker 2: he's going to unless he retires, and he just signed
Speaker 2: a new five year, one hundred million dollar deal, he's
Speaker 2: gonna catch him in playoff wins and in regular season wins.
Speaker 2: Let's just say he doesn't catch him in super bowls.
Speaker 2: Let's be conservative and say the Chiefs only win two
Speaker 2: of the next four and that and then he's done
Speaker 2: and he retires with five. Man, I think what's more
Speaker 2: compelling the one more super Bowl and that Belichick was
Speaker 2: three to zero against Andy in the playoffs, which counts
Speaker 2: including a super Bowl, or that Andy won divisions with
Speaker 2: four different quarterbacks at double digit win seasons with four
Speaker 2: different quarterbacks, made a super Bowl with a good but
Speaker 2: not great quarterback, and Belichick one, as you put it,
Speaker 2: forty five percent of his games across a decade of coaching. Yeah,
Speaker 2: plus when he didn't have you know one, they both
Speaker 2: had the two greatest quarterbacks ever one two two one.
Speaker 2: I think history is going to look more fondly upon Andy. Well,
Speaker 2: and You've saying this for a year.
Speaker 1: I've been saying if the CTE lawsuit had happened ten
Speaker 1: years earlier, Andy Reid would have a couple more Super
Speaker 1: Bowls and would be viewed as the best coach because
Speaker 1: things that were not only allowed, but were promoted during
Speaker 1: many of Belichick's years. Vicious head hunting hits, they were
Speaker 1: promoted coming coming up Sunday, outlawed the minute the game
Speaker 1: was the vicious violent hits were outlawed, which they should
Speaker 1: have been. If you look at medical concerns twenty five
Speaker 1: years earlier, that Belichick would have one or two or three,
Speaker 1: and that Andy would have six or seven or eight.
Speaker 1: I really believe that. So I think what it comes
Speaker 1: down to is a timing. Jeff Bezos would have been
Speaker 1: really successful, but the Internet and the retail giant allows
Speaker 1: him to be beyond the greatest bookstore owner ever, he
Speaker 1: is the greatest global retailer ever. So I think the
Speaker 1: timing is a big part of life. And I think
Speaker 1: Belichick is the beneficiary of a league which allowed basically
Speaker 1: the rules favor because years ago, thirty, forty, fifty years ago,
Speaker 1: what we considered great football was running backs and pounding
Speaker 1: hits and vicious tackles, and then you realized over time, wow,
Speaker 1: this is a bad look. We're losing lawsuits. What people
Speaker 1: really love is great quarterback play and offensive efficiency, and
Speaker 1: that's what drives the ratings. And so there's far more
Speaker 1: on television today and the audience and the platforms are broader,
Speaker 1: yet the ratings are greater than ever. How is that
Speaker 1: possible because the game is more aesthetically pleasing than thirty
Speaker 1: years ago. If you watch an old NFL game, it's
Speaker 1: kind of boring. I mean it's like four sets, seven plays.
Speaker 1: So as we have more options, it's one of the
Speaker 1: only sports for the ratings of skyrocketed over twenty five
Speaker 1: years and so the game now is it's purest and
Speaker 1: most aesthetically perfect, and Andy dominates the league. In fact,
Speaker 1: he not only dominates the league, but he often embarrasses
Speaker 1: the league. I think the only other coach in the
Speaker 1: league that has the ability to quickly make things great
Speaker 1: Sean Payton. Now, Shanahan's great, but he gets very tied
Speaker 1: to his play sheet. He can struggle lay in games.
Speaker 1: What Sean Payton's doing in Denver is WHOA what is
Speaker 1: happening here in that division? Like with a thin roster
Speaker 1: that was picked to win five games? And remember he
Speaker 1: went to the Saints. They were the Aints, they were
Speaker 1: worse than the Jets, and first year I think they
Speaker 1: got to the NFC Championship. So I mean Sean Payton
Speaker 1: and Andy. The difference is one has Mahomes, one has Grease.
Speaker 1: Both great, one transformational, the best talent all time, but
Speaker 1: both great. So I think I do consider you know,
Speaker 1: it's like saying Picasso or Monet if art only appreciated
Speaker 1: one for one time and another for another era. But
Speaker 1: I do think Andy's I think when I look at
Speaker 1: Andy and contextualize both, I'm like his ability to win
Speaker 1: more ways with more unique teams and coaches. Belichick, by
Speaker 1: the way, and always almost always went back to the
Speaker 1: same coaches. He had a system and it worked with
Speaker 1: one quarterback, well twofold one is.
Speaker 2: And again I don't know how much people weigh what
Speaker 2: was your coaching tree and their success, right, but Andy's
Speaker 2: coaching tree is like that to me, is like when
Speaker 2: we talk about great coaches historically and it's like, well,
Speaker 2: how much do you weigh that Mike Shanahan ultimately like
Speaker 2: his coaching tree is Kyle's, which is mcveigh's, which is
Speaker 2: the whole league, like you know what I mean, Like
Speaker 2: that's got a way in his greatness Andy. So that
Speaker 2: that part of Andy's thing where Bill obviously most of
Speaker 2: the guy who had the most success of his coaching
Speaker 2: tree as our friend Eric. And other than that, it's
Speaker 2: a lot of like really dim l like the people
Speaker 2: say Bill O'Brien, But Bill O'Brien wasn't really his coaching
Speaker 2: tree as much or right. He went to college first,
Speaker 2: I guess he was. Who's the person, oh, Vrabel, Bill
Speaker 2: O'Brien is his coaching tree. Verrabel people assigned to him,
Speaker 2: but Rabel never coached for him ver Abel played for him,
Speaker 2: went to Ohio State and it's now the coach there. Uh.
Speaker 2: But the other point that I wanted to make was Andy,
Speaker 2: did seem or does seem to guarantee you a floor
Speaker 2: that's like eight wins?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: And Bill we've seen on the front end, in the
Speaker 2: middle with bloodsoe and on the back end, did not
Speaker 2: like now I do. I think he's the greatest defensive
Speaker 2: mind ever. And I'm not trying to like shit talk
Speaker 2: a guy who's, you know, clearly right now is the
Speaker 2: greatest coaching resume ever. But when I do wonder, and
Speaker 2: this is the last thing I'll say on it, did
Speaker 2: he have held out hope I'm going to get an
Speaker 2: NFL job if he was more convinced if I get
Speaker 2: Shula's record, I'm keeping it? Or did that not become
Speaker 2: as important when he's like hold on him in?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: So if I passed Shula in twenty twenty six and
Speaker 2: then Andy laughs me in twenty twenty seven, what is it? Yeah?
Speaker 2: What you know? What I mean? Why does that matter
Speaker 2: as much?
Speaker 1: He wasn't getting great offers like Harbaugh got a Bosa,
Speaker 1: a left tackle and Herbert and a non medaling owner.
Speaker 1: That's a good job. Bill wasn't getting those orders. If
Speaker 1: Philadelphia was offered, I think he'd stay for six years
Speaker 1: because Howie Roseman Jeffrey Lourie a great roster. But when
Speaker 1: you're getting bad offers, then he can look at it
Speaker 1: and go. So I'll be a loser in Cleveland, I'll
Speaker 1: be a loser in blank and.
Speaker 2: I only want to New Orleans right right?
Speaker 1: But think about this. What if here's I'll cap it
Speaker 1: with this. Let's say Belichick and Andy Reader music producers.
Speaker 1: One creates the greatest band ever, but in two or
Speaker 1: three other bands he bombs. Andy Reid has a great band,
Speaker 1: but several other memorable quality bands as a producer, and
Speaker 1: you'd go, well, maybe maybe the reason the one guy
Speaker 1: had the greatest band he had the greatest lead singer.
Speaker 1: But this guy created multiple bands that are all time
Speaker 1: memorable musical acts and no.
Speaker 2: Flopslop, no flops matters to me about this today, and
Speaker 2: Wilds got angry with you. Wild's like nobody cares about
Speaker 2: how many losing seasons the guy had. I'm like, well, okay,
Speaker 2: maybe I was like, but they both coach for insane
Speaker 2: length of period time. Andy has three losing seasons and
Speaker 2: Bill has eight that is that's not nothing. It's not everything,
Speaker 2: but it's not nothing, right, it's something there.
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Speaker 1: So let me throw this at you. This is not
Speaker 1: a baseball topic. We don't talk a lot about it,
Speaker 1: but it's fascinating to me. So I'm agnostic on many things.
Speaker 1: I'm kind of an agnostic personality, from religion to almost anything.
Speaker 1: I tend to be just sort of I weigh information
Speaker 1: and I pick the side. I like, I don't have
Speaker 1: a lot of purity in me right Like, I don't
Speaker 1: have a lot of loyalty outside of my wife and
Speaker 1: my children and friends. But so baseball comes out with
Speaker 1: this golden bat concept where basically you could bryce Harper
Speaker 1: gets an extra at bat every game, or an Aaron Judge.
Speaker 1: You don't have to use it, but you can in
Speaker 1: a critical situation. And purists are bothered by this, and
Speaker 1: I'm fascinated by what purists are holding on to. And
Speaker 1: I've heard baseball people say, oh, I'll never watch another
Speaker 1: baseball game, as if Sandy Kofax's historic run is deluded
Speaker 1: by a new golden bat. At that concept in twenty
Speaker 1: twenty four, it's it's almost like saying it's not perfectly analogous,
Speaker 1: but gay marriage ruins the sanctity of previous marriage. Well,
Speaker 1: if you had a great marriage for forty years, what
Speaker 1: does it have to do.
Speaker 2: But also, I will also say anybody that like, we've
Speaker 2: all come to terms with the guy that most people
Speaker 2: feel like, probably correctly is the greatest baseball player ever
Speaker 2: played at a time when a lot of the greatest
Speaker 2: baseball players ever were not allowed to be in the
Speaker 2: league because they were black or Hispanic. Yeah, and it's
Speaker 2: just like, hey, we know that's part of the record book.
Speaker 2: Try we know, like there's people have an ability. No
Speaker 2: nobody with a brain looks back and it's like, hey,
Speaker 2: I checked Terry Bradshaw's stats. Dude sucks. It's like no,
Speaker 2: it's like, I know that's what the record, but like
Speaker 2: those what the numbers are. But we all understand intuitively, oh,
Speaker 2: that was a different era. So if we were to
Speaker 2: have a golden at bat era and it's like, holy shit,
Speaker 2: a lot of three home run games out of nowhere,
Speaker 2: it's like, oh yeah, because they change the rules. People
Speaker 2: are smarter than we, like, we give them crush.
Speaker 1: But that's what I'm asking. We had the cattle steroid era,
Speaker 1: so all the records are power records are meaning us
Speaker 1: and nobody really knows who took it. I mean seriously,
Speaker 1: it's like trying to figure out which rich people chitted
Speaker 1: on their taxes. How about we start with all of them? Right?
Speaker 1: Like who knows? So my take is, what are purests
Speaker 1: holding onto? Are these forty eight year old men who
Speaker 1: still collect baseball cards? Like the idea? So the sport
Speaker 1: makes two changes both crush, defensive shift eliminated and at pitchclock. Okay, yep,
Speaker 1: So all of a sudden, the defensive shift more base hips. Well,
Speaker 1: that's messing with the previous six eight years, right.
Speaker 2: And the thing closest to the Golden at bad is
Speaker 2: the ghost runner ghost runner thing which you know in
Speaker 2: made baseball cooler for the regular season. You don't want
Speaker 2: to put in the playoffs. That's fine.
Speaker 1: So what are purest holding onto that are outraged by
Speaker 1: a new concept? Well, I don't understand.
Speaker 2: I'm not the the I mean, I understand them, I
Speaker 2: don't agree with them because ultimately, what my one of
Speaker 2: my fundamental beliefs that bothers I think purists. But it's
Speaker 2: not even a belief, it's just a fact. Sports are
Speaker 2: simply entertainment product. That's right, That's all it is. We
Speaker 2: are part of the entertainment industry. We are in We
Speaker 2: are fighting for attention and relevance in sports. And there
Speaker 2: is nothing inherently more valuable, moral, ethical important to American
Speaker 2: professional football than American Ultimate frisbee. But one is the
Speaker 2: most valuable television property in the world and the other
Speaker 2: is something the best in the world at almost assuredly
Speaker 2: needs a real job because it doesn't pay the bills.
Speaker 2: So why is that Because people like watching one and
Speaker 2: don't care about the other. That's exclusively one. There is
Speaker 2: no other reason. And the idea that you have a
Speaker 2: birthright to people's attention. Go ask Corse racing, go ask boxing.
Speaker 2: You don't and so all of these sorts. So here's
Speaker 2: the real reason I love the Golden A bad idea.
Speaker 2: I like baseball, I love basketball, and I'm worried about basketball.
Speaker 2: I am legitimately worried about the NBA game because they
Speaker 2: have two massive issues that everyone knows is a problem,
Speaker 2: and I don't know that they have the stomach to
Speaker 2: address them. For the change that's neat one is one
Speaker 2: that's been talked about a ton historically, which is the
Speaker 2: load management, superstars not playing whatever it is. I will
Speaker 2: give a quick anecdote on why that's my thoughts on that,
Speaker 2: then I'll get to the real thing. I was in
Speaker 2: LA for seventy two hours over Thanksgiving because our son
Speaker 2: lives there and he couldn't.
Speaker 1: We brought thanks even to him essentially that Friday night.
Speaker 2: Lakers thunder yep, And I'm like, you know what, My
Speaker 2: wife's grandparents are with us. They're ninety one and ninety three.
Speaker 2: They love love Lebron had never seen him play, and
Speaker 2: I'm like, you know, what's the point of making money
Speaker 2: if you don't spend it on stuff like this? So
Speaker 2: I bought six tickets, not courtside, but first row behind
Speaker 2: court side. Not cheap, right, But what it was like,
Speaker 2: it's a I bought him at noon with full confidence. Well,
Speaker 2: Lebron's gonna play because Lebron plays, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Like Lebron did he get hurt last night? Then he's
Speaker 2: playing like even though he's the oldest guy in the league.
Speaker 2: And if it were any other superstar, I would have
Speaker 2: when my wife mentioned to me, should we do it?
Speaker 2: I would have said yes, But let's wait until like
Speaker 2: five o'clock to find out. That's terrible for the business.
Speaker 2: The other thing that is getting a lot of attention
Speaker 2: is the NBA's at its core. The NBA's popularity is
Speaker 2: based on is that dude flying? Holy shit? Liked not
Speaker 2: here's another thirty five footer And strategically, just like the shift,
Speaker 2: strategically was smart, but from a television product, it was
Speaker 2: a disaster.
Speaker 1: Everybody looks the same to every game, every possession, every.
Speaker 2: Name looks the same. There's no different styles, there's no anything.
Speaker 2: And we're minimizing athleticism. Yes, John Moriant goes on the record,
Speaker 2: is like I'm done dunking Anthony Everwards, taking thirteen three
Speaker 2: is a game. It's clearly a disasters a disaster. And
Speaker 2: so when I say massive changes, what I mean is
Speaker 2: have a real conversation about hey, dunks are also worth
Speaker 2: three now?
Speaker 1: Or care what it does for this two suggestions one
Speaker 1: and I said this seven years ago on the air
Speaker 1: and had a graphic take out the corner three. It's
Speaker 1: impossible to defend.
Speaker 2: Yes, okay that that agreed. That should be done tomorrow.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it goes right into the bench you put it,
Speaker 1: you moved out of about six inches.
Speaker 2: A real art.
Speaker 1: Yep, make it a real art. Yes, And so that's
Speaker 1: just much easier to defend it. You can be on
Speaker 1: players or this would be my This is something I've
Speaker 1: thought about as well, and I don't know. I think
Speaker 1: you could do this is that you get fifteen a game.
Speaker 2: That's what I said, Yeah, yes, okay, exactly right, whatever
Speaker 2: the number is. That's the other thing I was the
Speaker 2: fifteen game.
Speaker 1: Offense.
Speaker 2: And by the way, you can still shoot them after that,
Speaker 2: but they're worth two. There's Kurt Goldsberry had the idea
Speaker 2: years ago that I thought was fascinating, which was, you
Speaker 2: know how baseball stadiums everyone picks their own dimensions. You
Speaker 2: got a green monster, you got the short portray. Yankee Stadium,
Speaker 2: Royal Stadium is cavernous. Kurt Goldsberry says, each year, every
Speaker 2: team draws their three point line, and if you like,
Speaker 2: no and the I and I know that sounds ridiculous,
Speaker 2: but his point was some teams will be like, we
Speaker 2: don't have one. Well, that's not who we are. We're
Speaker 2: building a old school beat you up. You know what
Speaker 2: I mean, big big man style. The the Blazers when
Speaker 2: they had prime Dame Lillard might have been like ours
Speaker 2: is from thirty seven feet out because we have the
Speaker 2: one guy who can. And if that were the case,
Speaker 2: you would have you would know, man, I'd better be
Speaker 2: able to play a bunch of different ways, score a
Speaker 2: bunch of different ways, because shit tonight we're in Oklahoma
Speaker 2: City and there's no threes whatever. So I don't know
Speaker 2: the exact right answer. What I know is this, if
Speaker 2: the NBA does not make a massive change, it is
Speaker 2: in huge troubles. Because they have they have still they're
Speaker 2: still suckling off the teat of lebron Steph kd your
Speaker 2: most pop John.
Speaker 1: Moran and Aunt Edwards do not dunk the one of
Speaker 1: the I mean the Jordan logo. If you really think
Speaker 1: of even Doctor Jay's highlights today, Connie Hockins when I was.
Speaker 2: A kid, of course joined it's and the here was
Speaker 2: another question that.
Speaker 1: Oh, let me tell this that this was I said
Speaker 1: this about the NFL. I said, can you imagine if
Speaker 1: the NFL only allowed the tush push and bombs. There's
Speaker 1: no intermediates, no bubble screens. It's just power running or bombs.
Speaker 1: That's the NBA. It's not as a PA.
Speaker 2: And by the way, the NFL, one year into the
Speaker 2: tush push, it was like, we're looking into banning. Yes,
Speaker 2: And it wasn't because of safety. It was because that's
Speaker 2: terrible TV. That's bad for our products. It's not excite,
Speaker 2: it's ugly, and ultimately we're a TV show. And so
Speaker 2: I don't I don't know the answer, but I do
Speaker 2: know that continuing down this path is disastrous.
Speaker 3: So I.
Speaker 2: Would love it if baseball did something drastic, because then
Speaker 2: I think there is the NBA would look at itself
Speaker 2: hopefully and be like, well, the NFL every year, it's like, hey,
Speaker 2: rule change, figure it out. Hip drop tackle. I'd never
Speaker 2: heard that term three years ago. Last year it was
Speaker 2: the most dangerous things ever happened in the sport. This
Speaker 2: year it's gone like defenseless receiver to hit the quarterback low,
Speaker 2: Tom Brady. Tom Brady blows out his knee. They're like,
Speaker 2: massive rule change. You now no longer hit the quarterback low.
Speaker 2: Doesn't matter. Aaron Rodgers breaks his collar bone. They're like, hey,
Speaker 2: you can't fall on quarterbacks now either. Don't care if
Speaker 2: you don't like it. Baseball's making changes. The NBA is
Speaker 2: just like, can we interest you in in a new
Speaker 2: All Star game format? And it's like, bro, that's not
Speaker 2: the issue here. And here's one other NBA question. I
Speaker 2: didn't I forgot who first posed this, but every since
Speaker 2: I read it, I'm like, oh, that's interesting. Is there
Speaker 2: a single NBA player under thirty that is more famous
Speaker 2: than Caitlin Clark?
Speaker 1: No, no, there's not. There's not.
Speaker 2: That's a problem. That's a problem.
Speaker 1: Well, are the okay, so this is something that's a problem.
Speaker 1: So Baseball. I believe I've said this on the air.
Speaker 1: I talked more baseball last year than I ever have,
Speaker 1: and I believe baseball is going to have, let me
Speaker 1: lay this out, is going to have a renaissance.
Speaker 2: And I totally agree with this take.
Speaker 1: By the way, case I totally number one, because the
Speaker 1: regional sports networks died. The bottom of the sport is
Speaker 1: now Triple A Baseball, and they cannot afford even even
Speaker 1: good players. They can barely afford. So it's getting very
Speaker 1: top think about that. It's getting very top heavy. That's great.
Speaker 1: Remember networks don't care. They only televise seven teams and
Speaker 1: a thirty percent of the revenue comes from networks. And
Speaker 1: you say, oh, it hurts attendant, But remember when you
Speaker 1: bring in all star teams, did you see how old
Speaker 1: Tawny Betson Freeman drove road attendance. So now you're going
Speaker 1: to have Lindoor and Sodo driving road attendants, Machado tatists
Speaker 1: in San Diego, Judge and Stanton. So you get a
Speaker 1: series of five or six super teams. Well, when the
Speaker 1: Yankees had Jeter and a Rod, they led the league
Speaker 1: every year in road attendance and their own So my
Speaker 1: take is the sport's getting insanely the gap now it's
Speaker 1: like the inequity of wealth in America. It's just widening
Speaker 1: and widening. So that's not a terrible thing because what's
Speaker 1: happening now is the only cities that can afford the
Speaker 1: big stars New York, La Philly and the richest of owners.
Speaker 1: The San Diego Group has has been able to monetize
Speaker 1: some retail outlets and the stadium, and so what's happening is, yes,
Speaker 1: it'll be dominated by six teams. TV networks don't care.
Speaker 1: They're almost overwhelmingly either the richest owners or the bigger cities.
Speaker 1: So I'm looking at the Dodgers and I'm like, do
Speaker 1: I really want the Joey Vado model or the Joe Mauer?
Speaker 1: Will you go to Seattle? And nobody can. They can't
Speaker 1: afford anybody beyond Robinson Cano. It's a bad product.
Speaker 2: So at least the.
Speaker 1: Stars now are joining other stars, and people forget this.
Speaker 1: You know, when Jordan dominated the NBA, there were no
Speaker 1: other great teams. There were teams that could tackle them
Speaker 1: for several years. But when the Celtics and the Piston's age,
Speaker 1: it was a bunch of Portland's Utahs.
Speaker 2: They were just.
Speaker 1: There was run team. But that team was so enlightening
Speaker 1: and so it was such a star studded team. It
Speaker 1: drove attendance everywhere they went. Every night it was just
Speaker 1: it was Sports Center, it was the lead and so
Speaker 1: my kak is baseball and let me fish. Baseball has
Speaker 1: this now, they have like all star teams the NBA
Speaker 1: Wemby San Antonio, SJA, Oklahoma, Jokic, Denver, Jannis, Milwaukee, and Minnesota.
Speaker 1: Unlike baseball, they're in the wrong markets.
Speaker 2: Well, and the NBA just just last year massively changed
Speaker 2: the rules proactively to make sure super teams can't exist anymore,
Speaker 2: which mistake. Theoretically right, theoretically you understand it, but ultimately
Speaker 2: probably a mistake. It gives cheap owners and out like, oh,
Speaker 2: what do you want me to do? Like Dent, what
Speaker 2: Denver has done to Jokicic's prime is they win a
Speaker 2: title and then each year they're like, let's lose this
Speaker 2: key player. Let's lose that key player, and what do
Speaker 2: you want from us? Poor guy had one hundred and
Speaker 2: two points, thirty rebounds, sixteen assists over two games. They
Speaker 2: only won one of them. Guy average fifty fifteen and
Speaker 2: eight over two games, one of their losses to the Wizards.
Speaker 2: So that and here's the other reason why I don't
Speaker 2: think it's bad for baseball because even with everything, you
Speaker 2: just said, Baseball still is just random enough that a
Speaker 2: team like the Royals this year got made the playoffs
Speaker 2: one around, stole a game from the Yankees, and it's like,
Speaker 2: there's not going to be You're not gonna feel like,
Speaker 2: oh you you're oh my season, I can't compete, like
Speaker 2: because the baseball kind of adding variants to the playoffs.
Speaker 2: I went into that Royals Yankees series like, Okay, we
Speaker 2: have two players who would play for them, but we
Speaker 2: got like a forty percent chance of flipping them. Yeah,
Speaker 2: like you know what I mean. The takes one good
Speaker 2: starting pitching night one night and we could win. So
Speaker 2: I didn't feel like we were dead. And so yeah,
Speaker 2: I found baseball this year. We talked more baseball on
Speaker 2: the show than ever before. Now that was a very
Speaker 2: low bar because our previous high was zero. However, still
Speaker 2: but still like it was. It's not like it was
Speaker 2: forced on us. It was exciting. It's like, yo, we
Speaker 2: have judged Verstani and the damn World Series like this
Speaker 2: is dope. And so I agree with you. And that's
Speaker 2: another reason the NBA should be worried, Like and I
Speaker 2: I don't know, man, I have my concerns about whether
Speaker 2: or not Adam Silver is a wartime consuliari or even
Speaker 2: knows there's a war going on. And I think he's
Speaker 2: super sharp and a lot of things and the right
Speaker 2: man for a lot of jobs. But right now, I
Speaker 2: think you have to be willing to say we actively
Speaker 2: don't care about the record book because the other if
Speaker 2: they wanted to one other thing. And I've said this
Speaker 2: for literally I said it for the first time at
Speaker 2: the Sloan Sports Analytics Conference seven years ago because I
Speaker 2: saw the strength coming down the tracks. Because I'm like
Speaker 2: my buddy Daryl Morey, I think is the smartest guy
Speaker 2: in the league, and he clearly believes we should only
Speaker 2: shoot threes, free throws and layups. So eventually everyone's gonna
Speaker 2: think this, and then what's it going to do? And
Speaker 2: my solution then, in my solution now is if you
Speaker 2: want to change nothing about the rules of the sport,
Speaker 2: then all you have to do is say it's not
Speaker 2: threes and twos, it's fours and threes because now it's
Speaker 2: only a thirty three percent premium. Now you know what
Speaker 2: I mean? All those things. But there's two reasons they
Speaker 2: won't do that. One is people can't do math. People
Speaker 2: were like what the fuck like AD four And the
Speaker 2: other reason is it would ruin the record books. But
Speaker 2: you can't be worried about the record books and paralyzed
Speaker 2: by them.
Speaker 1: And it's insane.
Speaker 2: It's insane, especially when like, hey man, if your Hall
Speaker 2: of Fame doesn't have Barry Bonds in it, like, what's
Speaker 2: the museum you're protecting anyway? Does it?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 2: And so yeah, I agree with you.
Speaker 1: On Thursday Night Football is on. It's only on Prime Video,
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Speaker 1: on Prime Video. Restrictions apply. See Amazon dot Com slash
Speaker 1: Amazon Prime for details. One of the things I think
Speaker 1: that we both enjoy is the why. And I like
Speaker 1: the construction and deconstruction of part some sports. So for
Speaker 1: years and years and for years and years, you know,
Speaker 1: everybody howled that we needed to pay the college football players,
Speaker 1: and because their careers are shorter than baseball and basketball
Speaker 1: and hockey players. I agree, like, let's pay these guys,
Speaker 1: and we have, and a lot of people don't like it.
Speaker 1: I'm never watching the game again, but the ratings go up.
Speaker 1: Protesters by and large have very little influence and are
Speaker 1: just throwing temper tantrums. Right. So, but I was going
Speaker 1: to throw this out there the other day. It is
Speaker 1: kind of remarkable now that college football. Pro football has
Speaker 1: a salary cap, right. Pro football has times that you
Speaker 1: can lead transfer slash go to free agency. College has neither.
Speaker 1: So the trains completely got off the tracks. So with
Speaker 1: the nil, my take is, listen, Texas can spend thirty,
Speaker 1: Purdue can spend two. Let's say that the cap and
Speaker 1: Purdue will never get to it, but make the cap seventeen.
Speaker 1: Otherwise it's gonna become baseball in HGH, like you're not
Speaker 1: even Produe's gonna have no elite players. Texas will have
Speaker 1: thirty eight. And there's always been an imbalance in college football.
Speaker 1: But let's put up some guard rail so all the
Speaker 1: kids get paid, but the but the you know, let's
Speaker 1: just say eighteen because some schools now have broken through
Speaker 1: the twenty they're getting close to twenty eight and thirty and.
Speaker 2: And well, hell BYU basketball just paid a kid seven
Speaker 2: million bucks. It's I mean, so, here's so I have
Speaker 2: a different Here's the question I have. Are we approaching
Speaker 2: a time where none, where there is? What's the good
Speaker 2: example for this? Not Ashton genty he's gonna be a
Speaker 2: top ten pick. If you are, you're like, hey, I'm
Speaker 2: the second best running back in college football. Stay there,
Speaker 2: I've checked my draft profile. Question they say I'm a
Speaker 2: second third round pick. Well, let me check those contracts.
Speaker 2: That's six hundred grand a year. Well that's crazy because
Speaker 2: nil at Michigan will pay me three million for real,
Speaker 2: Because running back in college football, you're still a star,
Speaker 2: like you're the like, so are there going to be?
Speaker 2: It won't happen with quarterbacks that are you know, and
Speaker 2: I obviously like, but where guys that aren't. And by
Speaker 2: the way, I don't know that that's bad. That might
Speaker 2: be really good saying. It'll be a fascinating thing. I
Speaker 2: think where guys who are like, wait, I can make
Speaker 2: more money staying in college.
Speaker 1: It will fortify college football because it's already happening now.
Speaker 1: Because I've talked to coaches who have said, this is
Speaker 1: a discussion point for running backs. We can pay a
Speaker 1: three forty, you can make two eighty and you and
Speaker 1: you're not by the way, you're not a twelve year
Speaker 1: NFL player, but you can be a legend at Blank University.
Speaker 1: And so it's happen. It's happening right now, and I
Speaker 1: think it actually benefits college football. You're gonna keep more players.
Speaker 1: It may be two players a roster, but if you're
Speaker 1: like a top receiver to school at Tulsa and you're
Speaker 1: a six round pick and Tulsa's like, we'll pay you
Speaker 1: eight hundred thousand dollars, well, you're ye making your in
Speaker 1: pro football.
Speaker 2: And not guaranteed and they're not cares, not guaranteed contracts.
Speaker 2: Like I do think there's going to be real. I
Speaker 2: think it'll be fascinating when a player who is considered like,
Speaker 2: oh wait, that guy, he's the number one safety in
Speaker 2: the draft, and the people are like, okay, he's gonna
Speaker 2: go late first, early second, and he's like, all right,
Speaker 2: well I can wait on that. I'm you know what
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm gonna here. And again, I don't think
Speaker 2: that's bad. To be very clear, I just think it's
Speaker 2: a fascinating dynamic. I also so I I wish I
Speaker 2: had the the kid's name, but I did see a video.
Speaker 2: There was the first time I started to feel actually
Speaker 2: like uneasy about the nil stuff was there was a
Speaker 2: kid in this latest signing class who I'm gonna get it.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna get the proper nowns wrong, but just follow
Speaker 2: me on it. Let's for the sake of argument, say
Speaker 2: he signed with Georgia and at the announcement he made
Speaker 2: it very clear he was sad, and he was like, yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, I never thought I'd go be going here
Speaker 2: my whole life. You know, I dreamed of playing at LSU.
Speaker 2: What And again I might have the George LSU part wrong,
Speaker 2: but school a school beat. And then when I looked
Speaker 2: it up LSU and this offered him a scholarship. It
Speaker 2: is a five star kid, but it was purely like
Speaker 2: And what made me feel bad was I was like,
Speaker 2: was he making this decision or were like the adults
Speaker 2: and his family pressuring him? But it was clearly this
Speaker 2: place offered more money, So I felt like I had
Speaker 2: to go there. And I was like, oh, that kind
Speaker 2: of sucks, you know what I mean, Like you always
Speaker 2: dreamt of playing for this college. You're seventeen years old,
Speaker 2: and it's like, well, this place is offering me two million,
Speaker 2: and this place offering me three million, and my family
Speaker 2: is probably right, Like I can't turn down a million dollars,
Speaker 2: so I guess I'll go here. And that part of
Speaker 2: it did make it feel like, uh, that's not perfect. No,
Speaker 2: Like this isn't the this isn't perfect. It's better than
Speaker 2: to me than it was. This is better than the
Speaker 2: kids getting no money and everyone else getting rich. But
Speaker 2: we haven't quite found homeostasis here yet. Not the right
Speaker 2: way to do it.
Speaker 1: It's just the duality of everything with more money, more money,
Speaker 1: more problems. You're this idea that there was this ball halla,
Speaker 1: there was this perfect landing spot. It does not exist.
Speaker 1: I'll tell you something that's fascinating. Here's something I talked.
Speaker 1: I led my show with us today and unfortunately, I'm
Speaker 1: sure you probably didn't have time for it. You used
Speaker 1: to listen religiously, but those days are over. But the
Speaker 1: point being, no, I that's true. So I led with
Speaker 1: this today. Deebo Samuel Brock pretty comes out and says
Speaker 1: you know, I love Debo and we'll get in the
Speaker 1: ball more. And I thought, oh, okay, so a year ago,
Speaker 1: nine months ago, running backs are dead in this league.
Speaker 1: The top five running teams now in the league are
Speaker 1: all playoff teams. The top six receivers receiving yards, six
Speaker 1: of the top ten round losing teams. And so it's
Speaker 1: it's DeVante Adams cryptic messages. Jamar Chase is noisy, it's
Speaker 1: elite neighbors. It's Deebo Samuel, it's Deontay Johnson, it's George Pickens.
Speaker 2: So it's even Aj Brown, by the way, on a
Speaker 2: good team. Everything was fine, and then he's like, I'm.
Speaker 1: Pissed, and I said it's not fine, And I said,
Speaker 1: we gave receivers for about two years the keys to
Speaker 1: the kingdom. But they are sports cars. They don't work
Speaker 1: well in the winner. You can't really drive them seven
Speaker 1: days a week. And running back this is you've loved
Speaker 1: this take and running backs no, no, no, they're the suv
Speaker 1: year round, grocery, soccer practice date all weather. Actually always
Speaker 1: elevate the quarterback, always young quarterback, old quarterback. They're also great.
Speaker 1: They help you take leads and eat the clock and
Speaker 1: help you protect them. The receivers, don't they all block
Speaker 1: or they don't play. They're the grinders. They're the most
Speaker 1: running back Saquon Barkley, I want the ball more, but
Speaker 1: I'm sacrificing for the team. They never you never hear
Speaker 1: a running back complaining we're throwing it too much to
Speaker 1: the star receiver. And it's a classic example is that
Speaker 1: we gave it's the NBA position of NFL wide receiver
Speaker 1: rakes the huddle first, he's on his own. We gave
Speaker 1: you the keys for like two years. We immediately had
Speaker 1: a wide receiver Bubble Chiefs win without Tyreek Hill. You
Speaker 1: can argue they can spend money on defense. They're just
Speaker 1: a much better team now, more complete team. And in
Speaker 1: the end, it goes back nine months ago we lamented
Speaker 1: the future of running backs. It is now in one
Speaker 1: season Baltimore, Detroit, Green Bay, Washington. Here comes Isaiah Pacheco,
Speaker 1: the Rams, Kiren wioms it is a running back quarterback
Speaker 1: league again in nine months.
Speaker 2: So so that was and I didn't see it coming
Speaker 2: this quickly up. But what I did wonder was I
Speaker 2: was like, Okay, one of the things that happened to
Speaker 2: running backs was yes, the game changed, but the other
Speaker 2: it wasn't just that the game changed. It wasn't just
Speaker 2: your position isn't as valuable. It was there's too many
Speaker 2: B minuses, meaning like there you could seemingly find a
Speaker 2: not great but a good running back anywhere, practice squad,
Speaker 2: seventh round, undrafted free agent like. And the reason for
Speaker 2: that was very obvious, which is our whole lives the
Speaker 2: best athlete at seven years old? Where'd they put them?
Speaker 2: Running back?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 2: If it wasn't the quarter like it was like, oh,
Speaker 2: you're the best player on the team. We're gonna if
Speaker 2: we're if you're either gonna be a dual threat quarterback
Speaker 2: or the running back, because we're going to hand you
Speaker 2: the ball a bunch. So in high school and college
Speaker 2: there were just too many good ones, which means seems like, okay,
Speaker 2: I could pay X for a great one or basically
Speaker 2: nothing for a good one, so I'll do that. And
Speaker 2: what I wondered aloud was are we about to see
Speaker 2: in a few years the same thing happened to receivers,
Speaker 2: because now if you're a great athlete as a kid,
Speaker 2: they're putting you at receiving It is seven on seven
Speaker 2: every damn year in the draft. This year there were
Speaker 2: ten receivers taken in the first forty picks. And then
Speaker 2: when we're like hold on that, everybody thinks there are
Speaker 2: twenty five top ten receivers, Like if you really put
Speaker 2: pencil to paper and it's like, okay, is he a
Speaker 2: top ten receiver? Well, I don't know, man, because the
Speaker 2: Garrett Wilson thinks he is, DeVante Adams thinks he is,
Speaker 2: Tyreek Hill thinks he is, Jayleen Waddle thinks he is.
Speaker 2: There's four just in the AFC East, and you keep
Speaker 2: going is Terry mclaurins, Nico Collins Is, Deebo Samuels, Brandon
Speaker 2: ayuk Is and I've mentioned Tyreek Hill, Jamar Chase AJ Brown,
Speaker 2: CD lamb a Mon Like there's all of these, it's like,
Speaker 2: well they're thirty million a person. But Brian Thomas Junior
Speaker 2: was the fourth receiver taken, So like, is there going
Speaker 2: to be the same type of correction where teams are like, no,
Speaker 2: I'm not paying thirty million for RECEI there's six more
Speaker 2: great ones coming out in the draft, Like I'm just
Speaker 2: not doing it right. So I saw that, I wondered
Speaker 2: if that was happening. I still think that's probably going
Speaker 2: to happen. The other thing that has happened this season
Speaker 2: is and maybe I'm maybe this is just because I
Speaker 2: turned forty and I instantly developed old man opinions. But
Speaker 2: Malik Neighbors being a diva receiver as a rookie, yea infuriated. Yeah, no,
Speaker 2: it's too much, and like in a way, it's too much, man,
Speaker 2: say like, listen, I get that's there's been a we're
Speaker 2: allowed to be divas, so we kind of lean into
Speaker 2: it from the position. Got it, so be it no problem.
Speaker 2: But t O and o Jo Sinko were not pains
Speaker 2: in the ass their first year in the league. We're
Speaker 2: gat they weren't like they were great, and then they
Speaker 2: and then they developed over three or four or five years. Yes,
Speaker 2: once they had else on the wall, I see, I'm like, man, everywhere,
Speaker 2: I look like George Pickens, an awesome player, huge pain
Speaker 2: in the ass from day one. Pick Malik Neighbors. It
Speaker 2: took him eight games before he's like, why didn't I
Speaker 2: get the ball to or down thirty? Nothing? It's like, buddy,
Speaker 2: you're the best player on the team. I get it,
Speaker 2: but you it's too early for this, it's too early,
Speaker 2: and so the and then the AJ Brown thing really
Speaker 2: irritated me on a just a team level. It's like, man,
Speaker 2: there there was nothing wrong. Everything. You guys are on
Speaker 2: a ten game winning streak, you're you guys are undefeated
Speaker 2: when you playing there Seemingly everything's all good. The only
Speaker 2: public narrative should be, man, Sakuon Barkley's gonna spreak, Eric
Speaker 2: Dickerson's record, and our defense is better than you idiots
Speaker 2: thought it would be. And then privately, if you want
Speaker 2: to be like god, damn it, so be it. But
Speaker 2: it's that was like AJ Brown, you're on your third contract, Yeah,
Speaker 2: you just got paid again. What are we doing?
Speaker 1: Here's what his issue is. He was overshadowed by a
Speaker 1: star running back in Tennessee, Derrick Henry, and he's overshadowed
Speaker 1: again with a star running back. No great receiver has
Speaker 1: been overshadowed in his prime by the two best receivers
Speaker 1: over the last six years in the league. He's the guy.
Speaker 2: Oh, that's interesting. I didn't even think about that.
Speaker 1: He's so he keeps going to places going timeout. I
Speaker 1: get a good quarterback, not a great one. Tannehill Jalen,
Speaker 1: I'm the best player on the team and both become
Speaker 1: run centric. What are you doing to my career?
Speaker 2: You right, but the but the but here's the here's
Speaker 2: the thing about that. But you keep getting paid any like,
Speaker 2: you keep getting top of the market.
Speaker 1: Deal well, and but money every time. You know, I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna speak for anybody, but when people get raises,
Speaker 1: it's good for about three checks and then you're like,
Speaker 1: I want the respect. Guys are driven much more more
Speaker 1: respect than they are money.
Speaker 2: I know that part. I totally agree with I the
Speaker 2: and I agree with you the whenever, like somebody loses
Speaker 2: a job or whatever and the reaction on Twitter is
Speaker 2: either still getting paid or whatever. I disagree with that
Speaker 2: because for someone who has been a j in it,
Speaker 2: it's gonna sound like I'm contradicting myself. But I'll come around.
Speaker 2: He's been He's not newly rich. He's been rich long
Speaker 2: enough that that's his normal. Yeah, so the money doesn't
Speaker 2: really solve things. The point I'm making is I would
Speaker 2: understand it a little bit more if you were in
Speaker 2: a contract year. If it's like, yo, you're costing me
Speaker 2: much because but the Eagles preemptively paid him this offseason early.
Speaker 2: And one of the reasons I would think you do
Speaker 2: that is to stave this all right, Like, hey, no
Speaker 2: matter how we have to run the team, you're gonna
Speaker 2: know you've been taken care of. So even if this
Speaker 2: year your numbers are down, it's not costing you anything
Speaker 2: because we just paid you. So that's the reason I
Speaker 2: brought it up, Like I do get why guys who
Speaker 2: are in contract years are like yo, no.
Speaker 1: I mean aj bra number is being selfish. Because also
Speaker 1: the NFL record book nobody cares. It's not like baseball.
Speaker 1: It really isn't. Nobody cares about the NFL record but
Speaker 1: we know Brady and Jerry, Rice and Montana and Mahomes
Speaker 1: are all over it, like and Breeze. So like a
Speaker 1: wide receiver, like, listen, we know you're great. If you
Speaker 1: get paid and you win a ring, it kind of
Speaker 1: solves everything.
Speaker 2: Well that's and also like if there's anyone on the like,
Speaker 2: could you imagine and this is to your point if
Speaker 2: after this last game, Saquan out of nowhere in the
Speaker 2: locker room was like, yeah, I mean, listen, everything's great,
Speaker 2: but I'm really sick of jail and sniping my touchdown,
Speaker 2: I should have ten more Like, how about we call
Speaker 2: a handoff at the one instead of the Toushbush people
Speaker 2: would be like that, you laugh because it's laughable to
Speaker 2: think of him doing it.
Speaker 1: But it's but we're used to receivers being ridiculous.
Speaker 2: We're totally used to it, one hundred percent used to it,
Speaker 2: like the yeah, I mean, I don't, I can't. I
Speaker 2: can't even bad ones Kadarius Tony, this dope, he's bounced.
Speaker 2: He just wants to He barely got on the field
Speaker 2: in Cleveland Fair caught a punt and taunted a guy.
Speaker 2: It's like you just have it in your DNA, like
Speaker 2: you just have It's it's unbelievable.
Speaker 1: So this is we got into a point. This was
Speaker 1: a topic on the show that was fascinating and and
Speaker 1: I've always said in the in my industry I work in,
Speaker 1: I don't know how to use all the levers in
Speaker 1: the control room, but I do know the words I
Speaker 1: can't say on the air. I understand the bible of
Speaker 1: my business. And I also have an understanding, having worked
Speaker 1: for ESPN and Fox, not to go after commissioners personally,
Speaker 1: although I can criticize them and have criticized all of them.
Speaker 1: There are certain things I know. I don't expect football
Speaker 1: players to know all the rules, but I'll give you
Speaker 1: three that drive me crazy. So the Cowboys block upon
Speaker 1: against Cincinnati. And when a punt is blocked and goes
Speaker 1: past the line of scrimmage, it's a punt. You treat
Speaker 1: it like a punt. Do you blame the player or
Speaker 1: the special teams coach? Because special teams players are often
Speaker 1: guys who are inserted late. They actually play.
Speaker 2: That guy who was that guy who did it? It was
Speaker 2: his first NFL game?
Speaker 1: Okay. You often are like a backup corner. You just
Speaker 1: got off the field. Now you're special teams. You're worrying
Speaker 1: about your assignments here, not your assignment's there. So the
Speaker 1: other things that drive me crazy are Tyreek Hill. I've
Speaker 1: seen this a few times when you do the often
Speaker 1: used dolphin backwards pass like the bubble screen, and they
Speaker 1: and the ball skips and they don't pounce on it.
Speaker 1: They don't understand it's a live ball. The other one
Speaker 1: is when a receiver catches a ball downfield and the
Speaker 1: dB moves past him, doesn't touch him, and people forget
Speaker 1: you have to.
Speaker 2: Touch Okay, yeah, well that's a college football relic.
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, yeah, So there's those are men, so all
Speaker 1: three of these and I'm not a rule breaker, so
Speaker 1: maybe I'm more of a rule follower. It drives me
Speaker 1: crazy when you don't know the basics of the game. Now,
Speaker 1: Kyle Shanahan apparently forgot or didn't advise his team on
Speaker 1: the Super Bowl overtime rule, which Andy Reid did. That's
Speaker 1: a coaching gaff. But let me ask you, do you
Speaker 1: blame the coach or the player when a rule that
Speaker 1: can change possessions outcomes so players don't know it.
Speaker 2: So I'll go through each of your examples. The backwards
Speaker 2: pass thing, I I think that play being such a
Speaker 2: prominent piece of so many teams playbook is one of
Speaker 2: the dumbest things that exists in sports. Like if if
Speaker 2: it's there because you're playing as a trick play double pass, right,
Speaker 2: so be it. But if that is just a swing
Speaker 2: pass to not coach your guys, Hey guys, this must
Speaker 2: be executed forward is baffling because it's you're gaining that
Speaker 2: you gain nothing strategically from it. That the yard difference
Speaker 2: between it being lateral or backwards versus forward, but the
Speaker 2: risk is, oh, you could just pick it up an
Speaker 2: run for a touchdown versus it being an incomplete pass.
Speaker 2: So yes, guys should pounce on it, and I always
Speaker 2: think it's crazy when they don't. Also, I don't know
Speaker 2: why so many teams love that stupid you know, like
Speaker 2: for pre wheel route backwards pass, like what are you doing?
Speaker 2: That can end in disaster? I hate it. It's the
Speaker 2: opposite of the little shovel pass in front of you,
Speaker 2: which is, oh, even if you drop it, it looks like a.
Speaker 1: Fumble, but it's not.
Speaker 2: That's the opposite of that, right, So that's first one.
Speaker 2: The not touching guys when they're down is to me
Speaker 2: not a coaching thing. That is purely on the players.
Speaker 2: Like everyone knows once you get to the NFL you
Speaker 2: got to touch them. Sometimes guys, it almost seems like
Speaker 2: a void, like try to avoid hitting the guy, Like
Speaker 2: it's bizarre. The Cowboys thing on.
Speaker 1: The punt special teams are queer, they're quirky, they're different.
Speaker 1: And here's where I will blame the coach I did.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so if you member the Cowboys, who were they playing?
Speaker 2: It was the it was one of the games they won.
Speaker 2: It was the insane game. They almost blew and they
Speaker 2: they it went back and forth. Is that was it Washing?
Speaker 2: It was Washington. They give up the hail Mary short
Speaker 2: hail Mary, but then set whatever it is if you remember,
Speaker 2: on sidekick, they recover it and instead of going down,
Speaker 2: run thirty yards for a touchdown, which then gave Washington
Speaker 2: the ball down eight and a chance to actually beat them.
Speaker 2: When that happened, the coaches were celebrating, and I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2: you guys, are that guy who God love him? That
Speaker 2: was the wrong play. You were up one, there's a
Speaker 2: minute left. When you recover that on sidekick, you go
Speaker 2: down and the the game is over. You recovered it, scored.
Speaker 2: Now we got to go back on defense. And Washington
Speaker 2: almost beat him because of it. But the coach is
Speaker 2: all celebrated. You saw it on the sideline, So what
Speaker 2: the hell do you expect. Two weeks later, a different
Speaker 2: special teams guy sees a bouncing ball and seemingly open air,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna scoop this and go score. That's coaching. That
Speaker 2: to me is coaching like. And so I don't blame
Speaker 2: that kid nearly as much as I blame the coaches
Speaker 2: in that spot, especially because this is an old man
Speaker 2: genie line. Don't ignore in victory what you wouldn't ignore
Speaker 2: in defeat. Like I don't believe that the kid who
Speaker 2: recovered the on side kick and scored instead of going
Speaker 2: down got, you know, in trouble for it. I think
Speaker 2: he got out of boys for it, which then it
Speaker 2: signals to the team, Hey, even if it's the wrong play,
Speaker 2: if I make it right, it's fine. And that's like
Speaker 2: the opposite the Belichick thing of guys who if they
Speaker 2: reached for the pylon, even if it was successful, got
Speaker 2: in trouble, yeah, because it was like the risk reward
Speaker 2: here is not right.
Speaker 1: I think a lot of football axioms and truths are
Speaker 1: parenting that if my kids does something dangerous and survives,
Speaker 1: I still I still offer wisdom and will punish him.
Speaker 1: Sometimes you could have been really hurt. Many of the
Speaker 1: truths and parenting are truths and coaching, and that is
Speaker 1: treat you know, that's right, right, Be respectful, right right,
Speaker 1: Be nice to others. Treat others like you'd like to
Speaker 1: be treated, Be coachable, don't cheat.
Speaker 2: Try to learn wherever you can, like, respect people who've
Speaker 2: been there before, and see what wisdom they have.
Speaker 1: Of course, I use sports. I bet I once a day.
Speaker 1: I will use sports athletes as examples in my business
Speaker 1: life and my broadcasting career. I use it all the
Speaker 1: time with my kids. One of the things I've always said,
Speaker 1: I told my daughter this once. I said, Michael Jordan
Speaker 1: was the best player, had the best marketing commissioner loved him,
Speaker 1: had the best coach, was the best looking, was the
Speaker 1: most stylish, And watched the documentary. It was hard. It
Speaker 1: was incredibly difficult. That's for the most gifted, with a
Speaker 1: commissioner that loved him, Nike one hundred years ahead of everywhere,
Speaker 1: the best agent. He still had an owner, he had
Speaker 1: a GM, he had Goofy, Dennis Rodman, he had teammates
Speaker 1: that were did not play to his liking. And I
Speaker 1: use this all the time in life. There's a reason
Speaker 1: there's like one Elon Musk and there's a reason, like
Speaker 1: there's a reason for Trump success. He's just a goddamn fighter.
Speaker 2: Like him or not.
Speaker 1: He just doesn't sleep, he doesn't make it. He's never vacation.
Speaker 1: He's never had a vacation day Like life is hard
Speaker 1: and one of the great maybe the greatest asset any
Speaker 1: of us can have. It's not education. It's relentlessness. Is
Speaker 1: that it is not linear for Jordan, it's not it
Speaker 1: wasn't linear for Brady. Maybe you look at Brady and
Speaker 1: you're like the best coach, the best own. So it's
Speaker 1: it's and we're seeing now some pushback on how much
Speaker 1: academics matter. They obviously matter, and they can separate people,
Speaker 1: but it is a relentlessness. A lot of people from
Speaker 1: Harbord don't succeed, and a lot of people from eastern
Speaker 1: Washington have great lives, right, And I and I and
Speaker 1: I so I think, I use, I use I think
Speaker 1: about how much of parenting is sports and how much
Speaker 1: of sports is life. And I use them and I
Speaker 1: use the Jordan documentary with my kids multiple times.
Speaker 2: Well, and the other thing with the Jordan documentary is
Speaker 2: like it no matter no matter how much success money fame.
Speaker 2: Jordan was at peak success money fame, and in nineteen
Speaker 2: ninety three was so seemingly kind of lost, sad and
Speaker 2: miserable that he quit his sport to go do something insane,
Speaker 2: which was like the lesson for me on that is
Speaker 2: like and now he had dealt with a you know,
Speaker 2: his father was murdered and he was dealing with a
Speaker 2: personal tragedy, real stuff, and I think there were. But
Speaker 2: if you in that documentary, a modern Shad tells us
Speaker 2: he was talking about doing that before his dad got murdered,
Speaker 2: and so he was already. So the one of the
Speaker 2: lessons for me on that is, like, man, this some
Speaker 2: some of the professional stuff or other stuff. If you
Speaker 2: have a hole in you or are missing something or whatever,
Speaker 2: it's not gonna fill it. Like the only way to
Speaker 2: fix your issues or to you know, feel joy or
Speaker 2: good about things, whatever, is to really look at why
Speaker 2: you're not going to do it. And so the idea
Speaker 2: that you can achieve your way out of your own stuff,
Speaker 2: you just can't. Because how many of like the use
Speaker 2: the Jordan documentary like he is and he I don't
Speaker 2: think ever got there like that. People look at that
Speaker 2: Jordan Hall of Fame speech, it's like the ultimate Michael
Speaker 2: Jordan thing, and I look at it as one of
Speaker 2: the saddest things in sports, Like this is the guy
Speaker 2: who at the time was universally, unambiguously accepted as the
Speaker 2: greatest ever maybe the most famous person in the world
Speaker 2: at the times, like him, the Pope whoever the press
Speaker 2: like the very very short list, infinite, endless money, and
Speaker 2: at his final real public appearance as a basketball player,
Speaker 2: he just was a vindictive asshole because whatever whatever it
Speaker 2: was in him that fueled him, but that also was
Speaker 2: real hurt or pain he never addressed. Yeah, right or
Speaker 2: I and I don't even know if I agree it's
Speaker 2: not solvable. I don't think he ever tried to solve it,
Speaker 2: and so like the and then like so you see
Speaker 2: these things and you're like, man, like that ain't gonna
Speaker 2: do it for you, like if Michael Jordan ain't doesn't
Speaker 2: have it, Like that's not gonna And so I mean
Speaker 2: you mentioned you mentioned Trump. Trump wealthy beyond anyone's wildest imaginations,
Speaker 2: did everything that you know, he was always wanted to,
Speaker 2: I think, kind of prove his dad wrong, did all that,
Speaker 2: then became president and just pissed all the time, just
Speaker 2: just like nobody's got it worse than me, everyone's else.
Speaker 2: It can be seeming like legit seemingly miserable, like it
Speaker 2: just like and so whatever, like some of it's if
Speaker 2: you got if you need to deal with something and
Speaker 2: you don't like it, and still it doesn't go away. Like,
Speaker 2: no matter what you achieve, it's still sitting there. It's
Speaker 2: still sitting there waiting for you at the end of it.
Speaker 2: And so yeah, like that is that? That is? Uh?
Speaker 2: The Jordan doc really crystallized that. When you saw it,
Speaker 2: You're like, man, I don't think this dude's happy. He's rich,
Speaker 2: he's famous, he's Michael Jordan doesn't seem happy and certainly
Speaker 2: wasn't during the process.
Speaker 1: So or whatever that's worth Nick, right, perfect. I don't
Speaker 1: like to great exhaust every idea because I want to
Speaker 1: get you more regularly. But your your career is bit
Speaker 1: between poker and your career and your podcast.
Speaker 2: Speaking of poker, going to the Atlantis Resort and Casino
Speaker 2: in the Bahamas for thirty six hours.
Speaker 1: Oh good for you.
Speaker 2: Well, it's no vacation, it's they're the biggest poker turn
Speaker 2: in the world's going on down there. So I'm going
Speaker 2: there Friday or Saturday morning, coming back Sunday. Take Oh
Speaker 2: it's not you know, I'll share this with you and
Speaker 2: the audience not actually playing. It's you know, it's a
Speaker 2: it's a potential partnership meeting that I'm having down there.
Speaker 1: Good for you.
Speaker 2: So so doing that for you. Yes, but uh but
Speaker 2: I yeah. So the poker stuff's going good, show's going good.
Speaker 2: I miss you and we'll do this more often, I'm
Speaker 2: sure of it. I'll talk to you soon, brother.
Speaker 1: The Volume