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Speaker 1: Body das, but Joseph's gotten more. As many of you know,

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Speaker 1: I've always had a fascination with the fire service. I

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Speaker 1: think that maybe a lot of it has to do

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Speaker 1: with a little boy in me. When I was a

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Speaker 1: little boy. Actually, my uncle, who my dearly loved, bought

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Speaker 1: me a Texaco fire chief fire helmet that actually had

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Speaker 1: a radio inside of it. Now this is in the sixties.

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Speaker 1: This was really high tex stuff. But just the pure

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Speaker 1: bravery of what these people do. The old adage of

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Speaker 1: while everyone else is running away from a burning structure,

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Speaker 1: they're running into it. But just for a moment, think

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Speaker 1: about this. A fire at a home, a mansion as

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Speaker 1: it's been referred to, was so big that it took

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Speaker 1: almost twenty fire companies to come and knock this thing down.

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Speaker 1: And when they finally got it knocked down, they discovered

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Speaker 1: the bodies of three individuals inside of that home. And oh,

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Speaker 1: by the way, outside of that mansion, another descendent lying

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Speaker 1: in the front yard with five gunshot wounds. I'm Joseph

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Speaker 1: Scott Morgan, and this is body bags. I've got a

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Speaker 1: pretty good relationship with the firefighters here in where Kim

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Speaker 1: and I live in Jacksonville, Alabama, And I have taken

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Speaker 1: my grandson, who is six years old, to the fire station.

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Speaker 1: When he comes in visits Papa and Gammy, and he

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Speaker 1: thinks that he is in heaven, and it brings me

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Speaker 1: joy because I always felt the same way when I

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Speaker 1: was a little boy. And you know, they'll let him

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Speaker 1: stand on the rails on the side of the thing

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Speaker 1: and get inside the cab and look at all the hoses.

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Speaker 1: They'll show him how everything works. Oh my gosh. But

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Speaker 1: the only thing, Dave is there's no dalmation. And they

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Speaker 1: all begin yeah, I guess. So. Yeah, if you watch that,

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Speaker 1: Oh god, that that that movie. I'm glad you brought

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Speaker 1: that up. That movie really disturbed me. Oh my gosh,

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Speaker 1: who would do that? I'm such a dog lover. But yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I always been fascinated by by firefighters. I've had the

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Speaker 1: privilege in the honor of teaching firefighters relative to death

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Speaker 1: investigation because it's a unique skill set that you have

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Speaker 1: to acquire along the way being able to assess to

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Speaker 1: assess bodies that have been burned.

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Speaker 2: And so anyway, you said unique skill set, and all

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Speaker 2: I can think of is whenever I see one of

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Speaker 2: these now, yeah, from what you've told me, it really is.

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Speaker 2: I've always had a great feeling for those who serve

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Speaker 2: others where there's police fire rescue, but knowing how involved

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Speaker 2: they are in the process after the fact. There's so

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Speaker 2: much information that you get from a fire and what

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Speaker 2: happens to people. It just is really beyond It's a

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Speaker 2: whole lot more than just pouring water on the fire.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it is. And here's another little insight into fire

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Speaker 1: service of folks. It's not just arsonal investigators that are

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Speaker 1: out there. I have learned just as much from the

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Speaker 1: most junior person that's on a truck when I'm inside

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Speaker 1: of a dwelling and working a case about points of origin,

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Speaker 1: or they're not really designating points of origin. They're saying

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Speaker 1: they'll say, hey, look here, there's a lot of damage.

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Speaker 1: And of course, for most of us, you know, when

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Speaker 1: you're in that environment, if you can kind of suss

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Speaker 1: out those particular areas where there is the most damage

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Speaker 1: at a location, that gives you an idea that that's

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Speaker 1: where the fire burned the hottest, and most of the time,

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Speaker 1: by deduction, you believe that that's where it's been burning longest.

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Speaker 1: Airgo that's where the fire may may have started. And

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Speaker 1: with what we're going to discuss now in today, Dave,

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Speaker 1: relative to this, I'll go and say it quadruple hom aside,

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Speaker 1: how many of these do we actually cover? Dave? This

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Speaker 1: is something that's been lingering since twenty eighteen. And just

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Speaker 1: let me just let's take a step back and just

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Speaker 1: think about this. First Off, this pot cast did not

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Speaker 1: exist when these events went down. Secondly, the if I'm

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Speaker 1: not mistaken, the current administration that we have in Washington

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Speaker 1: was not in power at the time. This is before

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Speaker 1: the COVID lockdowns. And I mean, just go on and on.

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Speaker 1: So we're talking now, we're six years down range from

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Speaker 1: a quadruple homicide that still has not gone to trial.

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Speaker 1: And of course we're talking about the Mansion murders what

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Speaker 1: has become the mansion murders in New Jersey day.

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Speaker 2: We're almost six years to the day that the events

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Speaker 2: that we're going to talk about happened in November twentieth

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Speaker 2: of twenty eighteen, six years ago Donald Trump was in office.

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Speaker 2: You mentioned the administrations and how things have changed, But

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Speaker 2: six years is a long time to go to trial.

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Speaker 2: And the reason is it's a complicated case and there

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Speaker 2: are a lot of different personalities running in here, family members,

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Speaker 2: what have you. We have Keith Canaro, his wife Jennifer,

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Speaker 2: their children, Jesse eleven at the time and Sophia eight

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Speaker 2: at the time. Those are the victims. It even gets

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Speaker 2: a little worse when you look at Keith Canaro was

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Speaker 2: actually shot in the head his multiple times. His wife

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Speaker 2: was shot and stabbed, the two children were stabbed and

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Speaker 2: full disclosure. I reached out to Joe in talking about

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Speaker 2: this and I said, what does that all mean? I mean,

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Speaker 2: does this mean there's a closeness When we've talked about killing,

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Speaker 2: you know, strangling and stabbing and things like that, those

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Speaker 2: seem to be so much more personal than shooting. Some

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Speaker 2: But the case didn't end right there with the quadruplehamicide

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Speaker 2: because on the same day, at the same time roughly

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Speaker 2: another fire took place at another house. But it was

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Speaker 2: Keith Kanaro's older brother, Paul, Yeah, his wife and two daughters.

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Speaker 2: Adult daughters were at home in bed when the fire

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Speaker 2: breaks out at their house early in the morning, and

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Speaker 2: Paul Canaro, in their eyes, is a hero. Paul saved

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Speaker 2: his family from the fire that was engulfing their home.

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Speaker 2: Didn't take Fire Department long to realize this is not

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Speaker 2: the same as what took place at the other Kannaro home.

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Speaker 2: Part one, Part two. There's a bunch of gas cans

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Speaker 2: of this house.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, there were, Dave. And first off, I got

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Speaker 1: to tell all of our friends, I've got the best

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Speaker 1: producer in the business. You would not believe the detail

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Speaker 1: that my buddy Dave Mack went into and kind of

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Speaker 1: laying out the show. And it's incredible. And one of

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Speaker 1: the things that Dave that you actually pointed out, which

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Speaker 1: is very insightful in this case, is the fact that

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Speaker 1: when you look when you look at Paul's house where

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Speaker 1: the secondary fire was set, which by the way, is

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Speaker 1: ten miles away from the mansion, and it's no small

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Speaker 1: house either. I mean, it's a house that most people

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Speaker 1: would be proud to have. But you mentioned something very

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Speaker 1: specifically about the fires, because there were multiple fires, and

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Speaker 1: you zeroed in on the idea that these are kind

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Speaker 1: of peripheral. These fires are they're externalized, they're peripheral. It

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Speaker 1: doesn't look like what you have at the mansion on

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Speaker 1: any level. And I think that that and you know,

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Speaker 1: when when you begin to see this kind of complex,

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Speaker 1: and buddy, is it complex, this relationship that these two

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Speaker 1: brothers had with one another. It's gonna I'll put it

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Speaker 1: to you this way, as mildly as I can. It

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Speaker 1: will give investigators pause, you know, because they're they're gonna

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Speaker 1: be running down the list, running down the list of

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Speaker 1: you know who, who in the world, you know would

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Speaker 1: want to do this. And early on I think that

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Speaker 1: at Paul's home they determined pretty quickly that this is

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Speaker 1: a fire that was started with purpose by an individual.

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Speaker 1: This is not an act of God. Uh, this is

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Speaker 1: not a malfunction with an electrical outlet. Uh. This is

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Speaker 1: not somebody that had an oil an oil heater that's

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Speaker 1: a j into a bunch of old, dirty draw rags.

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Speaker 1: That's not what this is. And so the police are

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Speaker 1: looking for this thing very carefully, and they're going to

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Speaker 1: look at all the principles because Dave the fire back

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Speaker 1: of the mansion. Remember I was talking about how extensive

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Speaker 1: this thing is and how vast it is. You're calling

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Speaker 1: in all of these companies, fire companies to put this

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Speaker 1: thing out. They're gonna, you know, they'll say, my Lord

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Speaker 1: in Heaven, how intense was this thing and how did

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Speaker 1: it get so big that it would take all of

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Speaker 1: this power to put this fire out.

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Speaker 2: I'm glad you pointed that out, Joe, because the difference

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Speaker 2: in the size of the homes actually explains the difference

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Speaker 2: of the brothers in the dynamic we have. Oh, Paul

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Speaker 2: Canaro is the older brother. Keith Canaro is the younger brother.

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Speaker 2: They're close in age, though they're like a year and

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Speaker 2: a half apart, kind of thing like my brother and

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Speaker 2: I regard, and that brings about a very different scenario

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Speaker 2: for both men. Keith is a very smart man in

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Speaker 2: intellectually guy, This is a man's man first of all,

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Speaker 2: loves his family, but he's very very smart. The same

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Speaker 2: cannot be said for the older brother, Paul. Not saying

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Speaker 2: he's a dullert or anything like that, but there was

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Speaker 2: some jealousy that was right there. Because the brothers together

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Speaker 2: owned a company called Ecostar Pest and Ecostar Pest Management.

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Speaker 2: This was a company they owned together. It's a kind

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Speaker 2: of job that you could put together based on studying,

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Speaker 2: you know, insects and basic things around your house that

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Speaker 2: you have to get rid of. That kind of thing.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't require a mental giant to do this. It

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Speaker 2: does require some effort on the part of both men,

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Speaker 2: and they put the time in. It's the second business

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Speaker 2: that actually requires intelligence. It is education. It requires an

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Speaker 2: ongoing learning experience to stay on top. Talking about an

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Speaker 2: IT business called venture, it's an IT venture that is

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Speaker 2: called Square One. Now, Square one was started by Keith Canero.

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Speaker 2: I say started by Keith Canaro because it's very important

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Speaker 2: to this. Together they had Ecostar Pest Control Management. But

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Speaker 2: Keith started Square One by himself and hired his brother.

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Speaker 2: So the older brother now is an employee of the

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Speaker 2: younger brother. They are not partners. And from the looks

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Speaker 2: of everything that we're going to tell you about today,

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Speaker 2: that has everything to do with motive. And I have

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Speaker 2: to ask you this, Joe. You've been around so many

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Speaker 2: homicides and you know the legal aspects of what the

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Speaker 2: prosecutors are looking for and what the defense is looking for.

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Speaker 2: In your discussions with these guys, do they ever talk

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Speaker 2: about motive with you?

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Speaker 1: No, it's something you know. And our friend Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: always says, you don't have to prove motive, but in

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Speaker 1: order to many times understand the dynamics of everything that

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Speaker 1: are going on. You know at a scene that the

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Speaker 1: motive will float around in the air. All right, the

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Speaker 1: courts don't require you to prove motive. But when you're

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Speaker 1: trying to put together a case, and particularly one that

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Speaker 1: is so very complex, is this, as a matter of fact,

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Speaker 1: on a little side, I'd like to just say this.

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Speaker 1: I was listening to a motion that was before the

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Speaker 1: court and one of Paul Canaro's attorneys, one of his

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Speaker 1: public defenders, was saying to the judge, judge, we we

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Speaker 1: have to have the prosecution tell us what their goal

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Speaker 1: is that they're going to prove. We we can't. We

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Speaker 1: don't have the ability to sort through what she uh,

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Speaker 1: she referred to as a term I've never heard before

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Speaker 1: as a dump truck approach. Where they've got she she

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Speaker 1: termed it as terabytes of data that are being dumped.

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Speaker 1: And the data is so vast because you're talking about,

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Speaker 1: you know, obviously the scenes. We've got bodies, right, we've

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Speaker 1: got methods of homicide here, we've got fires, multiple fires,

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Speaker 1: and multiple locations. And oh, by the way, we've got

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Speaker 1: complex finance considerations and just a little add on here

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Speaker 1: that just occurred a few days ago with this case,

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Speaker 1: is the validity of whether or not certain types of

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Speaker 1: DNA testing can be admissible. They've got a guy that's

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Speaker 1: that's offering pre trial testimony that's all the way in

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Speaker 1: from New Zealand, and so it gives you an idea

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Speaker 1: how complex this thing is. But yeah, I mean you

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Speaker 1: think about motive, and you know, motive is kind of

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Speaker 1: this this house, if you if you think about it

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Speaker 1: this way that is created, you know, with you know,

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Speaker 1: the why how do you purpose this death? And all

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Speaker 1: of the little you know, uh, peripheral items that come

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Speaker 1: along the forensics and the financials, and financials can be forensics. Uh,

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Speaker 1: even electronic data. They're kind of the murals that are

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Speaker 1: painted on the wall of this house. You know that

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Speaker 1: you're walking through and you're looking at it. So you

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Speaker 1: know the motive, though it does not have to be proved,

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Speaker 1: is sometimes that singular bit of data are information that

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Speaker 1: kind of frames everything out.

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Speaker 2: The shocking part of all this, Joe, is when you

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Speaker 2: have family members that do have a relationship and you

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Speaker 2: start talking about DNA and where it's collected. Isn't it

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Speaker 2: expected that people you have a relationship with that you

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Speaker 2: would have, especially if you're dealing with children where you

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Speaker 2: pick children up and you hold them and things like that.

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Speaker 2: Wouldn't there be a reasonable expectation that your DNA could

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Speaker 2: end up on their clothing or on their toys or

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Speaker 2: anything else. I mean, wouldn't there be a reasonable expectation

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Speaker 2: that the DNA from the suspect here could be found

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Speaker 2: on or around the victims because they're related.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it is. But you know, people make so much

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Speaker 1: of that, and we have to go back to sourcing, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, there's an expectation. I don't know, if

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Speaker 1: you're holding you know, your niece or your nephew and

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Speaker 1: they sneeze on you, for instance, Okay, well, uh, you're

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Speaker 1: gonna have you know, obviously, uh, mucus and saliva and

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Speaker 1: everything that's mixed with that. Okay, But it's it's it's

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Speaker 1: it's intellectually dishonest, I think. Uh, for someone to say, well,

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Speaker 1: DNA is DNA, well you have to go back to

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Speaker 1: the sourcing. In this particular case, you're talking about commingling

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Speaker 1: of Keith and his wife's DNA. Oh and by the way,

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Speaker 1: the source is blood, all right, So even if you're related,

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Speaker 1: you know, and of course you know Keith is related

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Speaker 1: to his sister in law by marriage. You don't expect

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Speaker 1: to find his sister in law's blood on an item

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Speaker 1: of clothing commingled with your with his brother's blood. So

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Speaker 1: you have to be very exacting about this, uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: because we're often you know, we're off in this land

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Speaker 1: now relative to DNA, where we're talking about touch DNA.

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Speaker 1: These partial bits that are out there, and yeah, you

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Speaker 1: can acquire those from anywhere. But if you're sourcing DNA

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Speaker 1: a DNA profile from a very rich source, which in

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Speaker 1: fact is blood, you know I probably the richest source

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Speaker 1: that you can obtain it from. It is dishonest, I

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Speaker 1: think intellectually to say that all this just is just

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Speaker 1: a passive deposition of this. No, that's not the case.

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Speaker 1: That's not the case. And I think but defense attorneys

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Speaker 1: do the defense attorney thing, and they're going to try

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Speaker 1: to raise reasonable doubt the case on this. David, I

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Speaker 1: know for a fact that you have been a business

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Speaker 1: person your entire adult life. This is something that runs

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Speaker 1: completely contrary to the course of my career that I

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Speaker 1: have had. You know, I if you're a government employee,

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Speaker 1: which I essentially have been my entire life, you know,

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Speaker 1: even starting you know, in the army at eighteen years old,

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Speaker 1: you know that you're going to have a steady paycheck

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Speaker 1: coming in. But when you're when you're a businessman, there's

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Speaker 1: fast and uh, there's famine.

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Speaker 2: Right, No, you're right, there's feast and famine. Generally, feast

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Speaker 2: and famine. The dice on your own paycheck, you.

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Speaker 1: Know, Yeah, there's feast and famine, and so you take

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Speaker 1: the highs with the lows, right, and so there's not

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Speaker 1: always going to be a guarantee that you're going to be,

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Speaker 1: you know, kicking it in the Beverly hillbilly's mansion. You know,

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Speaker 1: every day of your life, you know, you have hard times.

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Speaker 1: What's the the old the old adage my granny used

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Speaker 1: to use. Uh, we're going to have poking grits tonight.

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Speaker 1: You poke your head under the table and grit your teeth.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes sometimes you run, you run short, but you know

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Speaker 1: you have to prepare, you know, prepare for those times.

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Speaker 1: And one of the things that I'm hearing over and

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Speaker 1: over and over again with the mansion murder case or

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Speaker 1: cases again, is that there is a financial motivation you

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Speaker 1: know behind let'sious face it. Uh, these the slaughter that

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Speaker 1: has taken place at this home day.

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Speaker 2: And that's why I was asking you earlier about motive,

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Speaker 2: because I'm conditioned to as a as someone who follows

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Speaker 2: along with crime related news and things. I need to

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Speaker 2: know why something happened. Not that the court needs it,

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Speaker 2: I need it personally. I have to know what made

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Speaker 2: this person this was the best course of action for them.

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Speaker 2: And in this case, I actually, at first looking at it,

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Speaker 2: I went, this is way beyond and it still is,

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Speaker 2: by the way, way beyond what I would have thought,

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Speaker 2: because we do have a jealousy scenario playing out. It

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Speaker 2: happens with brothers a lot. These two men are in

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Speaker 2: business and there is a separation of money. As I

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Speaker 2: mentioned earlier, Joe, the brothers are partners in the pest

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Speaker 2: control company. They are not equal partners in Square one

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Speaker 2: the tech company. The tech company is beyond what Paul

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Speaker 2: Canero could actually be involved in at the inception. But

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Speaker 2: Keith brought his brother along and paid him a quarter

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Speaker 2: of a million dollars a year to be a part

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Speaker 2: of this company.

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Speaker 1: Now not too shabby, by the way, No, not too shabby.

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Speaker 2: They do live in New Jersey, so it's a little

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Speaker 2: bit different than it is in you know where you

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Speaker 2: and I live.

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Speaker 1: But it's still on the income he's sharing. He's profit

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Speaker 1: sharing in the insect or the oh extermination business obviously,

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Speaker 1: so we're talking more money than simply what would come

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Speaker 1: from the IT business.

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Speaker 2: Right, yes, And there was something else going on in

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Speaker 2: their dynamic that Keith, well, Keith didn't feel like Paul

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Speaker 2: was pulling his own weight when it came to the

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Speaker 2: IT company. He felt like Paul was spending too much money.

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Speaker 2: And this is a divide because Keith came up with

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Speaker 2: the company. Keith was the brains behind the company. He

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Speaker 2: brought his brother in as a partner to help him out.

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Speaker 2: But his brother was not pulling his fair share of

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Speaker 2: the weight and his brother was spending money that Keith

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Speaker 2: didn't think he was entitled to spend from the companies.

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Speaker 2: So there was a real thing going. But when you

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Speaker 2: look at it even goes a step further. Keith and

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Speaker 2: his wife were putting there were I say, younger brother,

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Speaker 2: but he wasn't that much younger. I mean their ages

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Speaker 2: are a year and a half separated, Okay, but still

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Speaker 2: it means something in disregard Keith Canaro and his wife

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Speaker 2: Jennifer actually had accounts set up for their children's college

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Speaker 2: education and Keith Ivy League education. So he's putting the

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Speaker 2: money away so his children can experience the same type

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Speaker 2: of education he did. That is not small change.

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Speaker 1: Holy smokes, it's not.

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Speaker 2: And they had found out, they being Keith and Jennifer,

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Speaker 2: they found out that over the last several months, maybe years,

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Speaker 2: that Paul was actually siphoning money from his niece and nephew,

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Speaker 2: his brother's children. He was siphoning money from their college

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Speaker 2: accounts and putting it into his own college accounts for

345
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Speaker 2: his children. He has two adult daughters, Paul does. It

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Speaker 2: came to the tune of about ninety thousand dollars Joe,

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Speaker 2: ninety thousand dollars that Paul is accused of taking from

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Speaker 2: his brother's children. It's a lot of money, yeah, it is.

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Speaker 1: And here's another thing. You know, you were talking about motive.

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Speaker 1: I think, well, let's don't focus on motive. Let's focus

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Speaker 1: on within the family dynamic response. Any father that has

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Speaker 1: been squirreling away Nichols to fund the education of their

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Speaker 1: child or children moving forward, because these kids are not

354
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Speaker 1: necessarily you know, toddlers, but they're at that critical point

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Speaker 1: where if you don't have a fund set up by

356
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Speaker 1: this time, you're really behind the curve, particularly when you're

357
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Speaker 1: talking about an Ivy league education. Yeah, there is just something. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and just the fact that he is working at this

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Speaker 1: in order to put moneies towards his children's education. Can

360
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Speaker 1: you imagine when he finds out and his wife finds out,

361
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Speaker 1: the rage that would be involved in this, and the

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Speaker 1: anger you know that comes about because this is not

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Speaker 1: It's one thing if somebody comes after you, but but

364
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Speaker 1: you're not just siphoning money away from you know, paying

365
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Speaker 1: some you know, the registrar's office, you know for or

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Speaker 1: you know for for tuition. You're actually you're ruining your

367
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Speaker 1: potentially or this is the way apparently you're ruining their

368
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Speaker 1: opportunity you know, in the future. I mean, that's the

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Speaker 1: way I would look at it as a dad, and

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Speaker 1: I'd have a I'd have a pretty uh, pretty robust

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Speaker 1: response to him, like you've had tried to go in

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Speaker 1: and pick my pocket. I don't care if they're my brother,

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Speaker 1: sister or my granny, I don't care. There will be

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Speaker 1: a robust response. And do you think, perhaps, Dave, that

375
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Speaker 1: this is what had occurred at absolutely one percent.

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Speaker 2: Because it was bad enough being talked about by Jennifer

377
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Speaker 2: and Keith that Jennifer talked to her dad about it.

378
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Speaker 2: It was beyond just we're not just discussing it as

379
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Speaker 2: a couple now, it's now gone to I'm telling my

380
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:18,719
Speaker 2: daddy kind of thing. You know, Jennifer was telling her

381
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Speaker 2: father and her father. And this is where you mentioned earlier.

382
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Speaker 2: We've got a six year difference between when this happened

383
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Speaker 2: and where we are now. And I want to throw

384
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Speaker 2: something out there that there is a civil suit that

385
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:35,840
Speaker 2: is being filed along with us. Hadn't even gotten to

386
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 2: the criminal trial yet of Paul Canaro, but there's a

387
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 2: civil suit that has been filed by Jennifer's father, and

388
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:50,040
Speaker 2: it's about the money that was taken. And so Paul

389
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:52,680
Speaker 2: Canaro has been accused of the murders of his brother

390
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Speaker 2: and his brother's family, and he's accused of arson. He's

391
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Speaker 2: now accused of stealing money from his own niece and

392
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Speaker 2: nephew's college fund. Paul Canaro is not in good shape

393
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Speaker 2: right now, Joe. And this is what was happening in

394
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Speaker 2: the world, Okay, at that time of twenty eighteen, in

395
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 2: November on November twentieth, Paul Canaro was staring right down

396
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Speaker 2: the highway and there are a number of lights heading

397
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 2: towards him, and he decided to stage two fires, one

398
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:33,920
Speaker 2: to take out to cover up the murder of his

399
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:36,720
Speaker 2: brother and his brother's wife and children, and the other

400
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 2: to make it look like he also was a victim,

401
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 2: like somebody was coming after both of the Canaro brothers

402
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:42,640
Speaker 2: and their families.

403
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Speaker 1: Joe, Yeah, and I've heard people allude to various things.

404
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:56,080
Speaker 1: There's been chatter, you know, in social media. Lord, there's

405
00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:58,640
Speaker 1: never chatter, and soia is there and it's all true.

406
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:03,719
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and it's all true. You you know, of course,

407
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 1: one of the things that always raises its head, it

408
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:10,199
Speaker 1: raises its head is the specter of organized crime. You know,

409
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:12,680
Speaker 1: that has been hinted at over a period of time,

410
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 1: other individuals within the circle that had felt slided in

411
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:21,800
Speaker 1: business deals, all these sorts of things, you know, and

412
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 1: that that swirl around this case, you know, goes to,

413
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:31,560
Speaker 1: you know, whatever defense is being offered up on behalf

414
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 1: of the accused, where you can generate enough reasonable doubt

415
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:43,520
Speaker 1: to put that into the minds of potential jurors, and

416
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 1: you know, you this case, which by the way, again

417
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:52,480
Speaker 1: has still yet to come to trial, which we believe.

418
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 1: Now there will be a date set and we will

419
00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 1: see this thing come to fruition unless it gets delayed again.

420
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Speaker 1: And you think about this, Dave, we're talking six years.

421
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:10,680
Speaker 1: How many people you know, these these two cases, this,

422
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:14,800
Speaker 1: these two fires happened only ten miles apart. Do you

423
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:18,160
Speaker 1: think the people that are going to occupy the jury

424
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 1: space up there have heard about these cases? It's six years,

425
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 1: you know. We talk about a lot of cases where

426
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:29,680
Speaker 1: you know, uh, the defense will say, well, the jury

427
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 1: pool is going to be tainted because it's been inflamed

428
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:37,120
Speaker 1: by uh, you know, media coverage and all that. Dude,

429
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 1: this is like media coverage. Now add on to this

430
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:47,720
Speaker 1: this idea of time and how much more impactful that's

431
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:50,800
Speaker 1: going to be to the pool that will be brought

432
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 1: in and some of this, some of this data that

433
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 1: they're going to be presenting in this trial, particularly the

434
00:29:56,840 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 1: forensic data, is going to be very very complain x.

435
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:03,280
Speaker 1: The financials are going to be very complex, or they

436
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 1: will be made at least to appear very complex, which

437
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:08,719
Speaker 1: to me, I mean if you sit me down in

438
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:10,960
Speaker 1: a lab and you start talking to me about toxicology

439
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 1: and DNA. Though I'm not an expert in DNA, I

440
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:20,600
Speaker 1: understand it and I can communicate it. You start talking

441
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:23,240
Speaker 1: to me about financials and I, first off, I'll go

442
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:26,880
Speaker 1: to sleep, And secondly, I don't. I don't. I don't

443
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:31,080
Speaker 1: understand it most of the time, and understand the movement

444
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 1: of moneies. Uh though you know in that way, So

445
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:36,080
Speaker 1: you're talking about bringing in a whole other group of

446
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 1: experts that are going to have to you know, there

447
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:40,800
Speaker 1: will be a pantheon of these people that will that

448
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 1: will come across the stage in the courtroom. And that's

449
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:46,960
Speaker 1: that's very important to remember. You know. It's just like

450
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 1: I mentioned earlier, there's actually a gentleman from New Zealand

451
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 1: that's offering, you know, pre trial testimony right now in

452
00:30:55,280 --> 00:31:00,400
Speaker 1: these motions relative to admissibility of this rather complexity, Well,

453
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 1: how much more do they have that they're going to

454
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 1: be talking about. Well, we're going to have ballistic information

455
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:08,880
Speaker 1: that's going to be coming out because you know, two

456
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:13,800
Speaker 1: of the victims in this case, one has shot multiple times,

457
00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 1: another has shot a single time. And oh, by the bye,

458
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 1: we've also got stab wounds that are involved in this case.

459
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:24,320
Speaker 1: And oh, by the way, we're going to have to

460
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 1: have opinions rendered about the complexity of fire and how

461
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 1: fires initiate and how they're maintained. And oh, by the way,

462
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 1: were they alive or were they dead when the fires

463
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:40,160
Speaker 1: were started? You know, all of those dynamics are going

464
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:42,360
Speaker 1: to come into play here, Dave. And this is not

465
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 1: I don't think that this this trial just from an

466
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 1: evidentiary standpoint, just from the forensic stuff, this is not

467
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:52,840
Speaker 1: something that is going to be over and done with

468
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:56,520
Speaker 1: really really quickly. This is going to be something that

469
00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 1: will take quite a while to kind of make it

470
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 1: through everything that happened that night in New Jersey. Hey, Dave, look,

471
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 1: let's just back up a little bit. Can you, in

472
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:27,720
Speaker 1: your the way you do things, can you take us

473
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 1: back to that night in November twentieth, twenty eighteen, when

474
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 1: you know, this whole thing just kind of it develops

475
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:41,360
Speaker 1: out of nowhere, because you know, you've got kind of

476
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:47,240
Speaker 1: a wonky timeline here, and it's very it's very confusing

477
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 1: I think for many folks.

478
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:52,440
Speaker 2: Well Joe is it was very confusing to me, and

479
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 2: I was making notes on the timeline because what we

480
00:32:56,320 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 2: have ismber twentieth is the day, twenty eighteen, and at

481
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 2: twelve thirty in the afternoon, Keith Canaro, his wife Jennifer,

482
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 2: and daughters and son and daughter, Jesse and Sophia. They

483
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:20,840
Speaker 2: live in the mansion. That's why it's called the New

484
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:25,320
Speaker 2: Jersey Mansion murders. A next door neighbor around twelve thirty

485
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:32,120
Speaker 2: sees smoke coming from the Canaro mansion. At first, it

486
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 2: was noticed earlier, but they thought maybe they we had

487
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:37,120
Speaker 2: just lit a fire we are talking about New Jersey

488
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:39,840
Speaker 2: in late November, and thought it was that. But as

489
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:43,960
Speaker 2: the fire continued to get bigger, that's when they looked, hey,

490
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,720
Speaker 2: there's more smoke than should be and they call police.

491
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:50,520
Speaker 2: That's at twelve thirty in the day, ten minutes away,

492
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 2: ten miles away. At five thirty that morning, Paul Canaro's

493
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:02,360
Speaker 2: home has a fire going on and police are called.

494
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:06,320
Speaker 2: Police and fire are called to his house. The reason

495
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:08,799
Speaker 2: I'm telling it to you that way is because that's

496
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 2: how it was reported you had the mansion murder that

497
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:18,000
Speaker 2: they get. The coverage begins at you know, eleven thirty,

498
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:21,840
Speaker 2: twelve thirty that day, but actually everything started much earlier.

499
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 2: And this was my question to you, Joseph Scott Morgan.

500
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 2: We have Paul Knaro, the older brother of Keith. His house,

501
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:34,920
Speaker 2: Paul's house is on fire at five point thirty in

502
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 2: the morning. He gets his wife and kids out of

503
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:42,240
Speaker 2: the house, kids, his adult daughters. He gets his family

504
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:45,279
Speaker 2: out of the house. To them, he's a hero. I

505
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:48,680
Speaker 2: mean he heroically got them out before sun up, saved

506
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 2: their lives. The fire company came in extinguished the blaze.

507
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 2: There were two specific places of fire at this house, Joe,

508
00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:02,040
Speaker 2: and one was near the garage on the outside perimeter.

509
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 2: The other was in the opposite direction but in the perimeter.

510
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:12,440
Speaker 2: Neither one of these fires was particularly large. Neither one

511
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:16,279
Speaker 2: of the fires caused a lot of damage. They did

512
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:19,719
Speaker 2: flame and smoke, but there wasn't a lot of damage

513
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 2: done to the home. And as I mentioned, Paul, his

514
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:26,280
Speaker 2: wife and two adult daughters got out of the house.

515
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:30,880
Speaker 2: As the firemen are walking around the house and looking around,

516
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:36,200
Speaker 2: they notice a bunch of gas cans at this home, Joe,

517
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 2: and that immediately makes them curious. As they're investigating this

518
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 2: fire at the home of Paul Canaro ten miles away,

519
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 2: the mansion fire is reported six hours later, and it's

520
00:35:56,719 --> 00:36:00,239
Speaker 2: a much different fire, Joe. Whereas the fire at Paul

521
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 2: Canaro's home was put down and put out pretty quickly,

522
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:08,960
Speaker 2: wasn't even completely damaged. The fire ten miles away at

523
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 2: his brother's house, Keith Canaro, this fire has engulfed the

524
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:18,239
Speaker 2: mansion and it is so bad. It's not something that

525
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:20,440
Speaker 2: they can put out by one group. As a matter

526
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:25,680
Speaker 2: of fact, it took twenty different departments involved, twenty different

527
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 2: fire plate that have had to be involved in putting

528
00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:29,320
Speaker 2: out this fire.

529
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:29,680
Speaker 1: Joe.

530
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:32,720
Speaker 2: Granted, it is a mansion, it is a big home,

531
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:36,760
Speaker 2: but the fire was so intense and burned for so long.

532
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:41,120
Speaker 2: It took hours of these guys working. And by the way,

533
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:46,280
Speaker 2: they found Keith Canaro out in the front yard murdered.

534
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:49,640
Speaker 2: He was dead from a gunshot. Went well, multiple gunshot

535
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:52,239
Speaker 2: wounds to the head. They don't know.

536
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 1: He's got one round in the back too, So he.

537
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 2: Got four to the head and one to the back

538
00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 2: right or something along those lines. He got multiple gunshots

539
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:03,279
Speaker 2: and he's out in the front yard. Keith Canaro is

540
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:07,480
Speaker 2: They don't know. They being the fire department, they don't

541
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:10,960
Speaker 2: know where his wife and two children are because Joe,

542
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:13,880
Speaker 2: it's too messed up inside the house for them to

543
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:18,799
Speaker 2: go in and find out the home was not safe.

544
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,800
Speaker 2: For six or eight hours after they got the fire

545
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:23,839
Speaker 2: not just under control, but got to knock down. They

546
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 2: were afraid the roofline was going to fall the floors.

547
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 2: It was that bad of a fire. They could not

548
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:31,640
Speaker 2: even get in to find out what happened.

549
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:37,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, and this I was taking. Took a look at

550
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:41,280
Speaker 1: quite a number of the photos from from the mansion.

551
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:44,400
Speaker 1: And you know, when I, you know, most of us,

552
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 1: I think that when we think about New Jersey, we

553
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:55,560
Speaker 1: think about we think about an area that's very, very congested,

554
00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:58,360
Speaker 1: and that you've got people living on top of one another.

555
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:03,319
Speaker 1: And I appeared on a podcast two years ago, I

556
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:08,040
Speaker 1: think with my friend Julian Dory. If you get a chance,

557
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:11,840
Speaker 1: check out his podcast, and I talked about my career

558
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:15,560
Speaker 1: on there, and he was actually and Julian is still

559
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:19,759
Speaker 1: in in Jersey, but his he had picked me up

560
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:22,359
Speaker 1: from the airport I think in Philly, and we went

561
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:28,200
Speaker 1: to his home in South Jersey and he said that

562
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:31,560
Speaker 1: people refer to it as the Alabama of New Jersey,

563
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:34,879
Speaker 1: that area where he lived. And you know, me, I'd

564
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:36,920
Speaker 1: never really spent that much time flowing in and out

565
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 1: of airports, flown into Newark, flown into Trenton before, and

566
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:45,000
Speaker 1: my gosh, when he was taking me through the countryside,

567
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 1: I was like, wow, this, I understand why you say this.

568
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:52,400
Speaker 1: You know, there's like agricultural feels, and it's it's beautiful.

569
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:54,440
Speaker 1: You know, it's not what I mean. They call it

570
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:57,920
Speaker 1: the garden State for a reason, and.

571
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:02,160
Speaker 2: Thought that was kind of like a marketing thing, you know, No.

572
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:07,040
Speaker 1: Jerseys, Jersey's quite quite beautiful. I mean it really is.

573
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:11,719
Speaker 1: And you know, he when I saw these images, Dave,

574
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:14,399
Speaker 1: I don't know if people have had time to take

575
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:17,680
Speaker 1: a look to see what this looks like. Why any

576
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 1: no one noticed? Really this this mansion as they're calling it,

577
00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:27,000
Speaker 1: and it is big, I mean, it's massive. It's isolated.

578
00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:30,200
Speaker 1: I can you can see one house kind of off

579
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:33,560
Speaker 1: in the periphery. The house itself, the structure itself is

580
00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:37,279
Speaker 1: so vast it literally has wings to it, you know,

581
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:39,759
Speaker 1: and they're kind of it's kind of horseshoe shaped in

582
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:45,640
Speaker 1: a way. So you've got multiple levels to this thing.

583
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:49,160
Speaker 1: Obviously there's a basement and then there's multiple floors in

584
00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:52,720
Speaker 1: this thing, and then it's out on its own big

585
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:56,279
Speaker 1: plot of land. And here's the thing that kind of

586
00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:59,680
Speaker 1: struck me about this is that if this had been

587
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:05,480
Speaker 1: in a really congested area, you would think that with

588
00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:10,080
Speaker 1: the report of multiple gunshots being fired.

589
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:12,080
Speaker 2: Outside that house early in the morning.

590
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:16,640
Speaker 1: Someone would have heard it. But it didn't raise an

591
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:20,200
Speaker 1: alarm necessarily. You know, this time of year, I don't know,

592
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:23,640
Speaker 1: I think that you can deer hunt in you know,

593
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:28,120
Speaker 1: in New Jersey, you can hunt for you know, other game.

594
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:32,840
Speaker 1: Perhaps we're in November when this is going on. Maybe

595
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:36,839
Speaker 1: it didn't draw the attention of anyone. It's not like,

596
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:39,400
Speaker 1: you know, it's like a you know, some kind of

597
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:41,880
Speaker 1: brownstone walk up, you know that you might see in

598
00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:45,560
Speaker 1: you know, closer to the city, closer to New York,

599
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:48,600
Speaker 1: you know, like over in Hackensack or something like that,

600
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:51,800
Speaker 1: where if you fire a gun, you know, multiple times

601
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:54,279
Speaker 1: like that, somebody is going to take note of it.

602
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:58,440
Speaker 1: But the fact that this man is found executed and

603
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 1: I'll go ahead and use that term, he'spparently executed on

604
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:04,080
Speaker 1: his front lawn, will draw the attention. Here here's another

605
00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:08,440
Speaker 1: thing too, Dave, because you know, I've had cases in

606
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:13,160
Speaker 1: the past where I've had an individual that has killed

607
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:17,239
Speaker 1: their family set the house on fire and then gone

608
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:22,279
Speaker 1: out onto the lawn and taken their own life. Okay,

609
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:27,960
Speaker 1: and that does happen, and so I would imagine that firefighters.

610
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:31,280
Speaker 1: First off, if you happen to see a dead body

611
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:35,200
Speaker 1: at the scene and it's laying out in the yard,

612
00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:41,839
Speaker 1: the first goal of a fire company is to get

613
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:44,440
Speaker 1: the fire put out. And I'm not saying they're going to,

614
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:51,520
Speaker 1: you know, disrespect the dead, but they're you know, somebody,

615
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:54,319
Speaker 1: a paramedic might roll up and check and see if

616
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:58,160
Speaker 1: this individual has a pulse. If they're dead, they're not

617
00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:00,440
Speaker 1: going to start processing the scene while you got this

618
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:04,760
Speaker 1: raging inferno that's going on. And that's very important to understand.

619
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 1: But I can tell you this, when they approached this

620
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:14,759
Speaker 1: gentleman's body, they knew from the beginning that this was

621
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:20,160
Speaker 1: in fact not a self inflicted gunshot wound because there

622
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:26,600
Speaker 1: wasn't just one gunshot wound. There were multiple gunshot wounds

623
00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:35,239
Speaker 1: in atypical regions and no weapon to be found. This

624
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:40,239
Speaker 1: is episode one. Please join us for episode two. I'm

625
00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:47,880
Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body by