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Speaker 1: Pushkin.

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Speaker 2: I'm Reevesweidermann, and I wrote The Battle of Fishkill for

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Speaker 2: New York Magazine, and it's the story of the week.

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Speaker 1: Every time my wife and I would drive from Manhattan

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Speaker 1: to our hometown of Husick Falls, New York, we pass

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Speaker 1: by this town of Fishkill, and sometimes I'd look out

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Speaker 1: the window and wonder do we need gas? I now

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Speaker 1: know I should have wondered many many more things about Fishkill.

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Speaker 1: Writing is hard.

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Speaker 3: Who's got that kind of time when you're already busy

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Speaker 3: trying to be Jon stand So it turns on a mike.

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Speaker 3: Maybe the twitdles enough because a journalist Trand has got

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Speaker 3: in that jewel jibes. Single story.

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Speaker 2: Just listen, people speak.

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Speaker 3: Conversation Film with information is the story.

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Speaker 1: Over a decade ago, a man from the Bronx had

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Speaker 1: a dream. That dream was to build an I hoop

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Speaker 1: in a town called Fishkill, New York. This dream led

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Speaker 1: him to find his true calling, the one that brought

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Speaker 1: him even more joy than giving people Rudy two d

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Speaker 1: fresh and fruities, one that has cost him millions of dollars,

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Speaker 1: all of which he says were well spent. That calling

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Speaker 1: was revenge. Reeves Widemann wrote about the epic battle to

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Speaker 1: build an I hoop in Fishkill for New York magazine.

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Speaker 1: How'd you find this story?

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Speaker 2: Someone happened to be visiting family in Fishkill, New York,

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Speaker 2: and was driving down the street and saw these signs

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Speaker 2: that we're talking about some kind of weird conspiracy that

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Speaker 2: was unfolding. The one thing I remember being on the

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Speaker 2: sign was it said learned the Truth, like it was

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Speaker 2: something out of the X Files kind of. And and

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Speaker 2: so this person had just kind of read some stories

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Speaker 2: I'd written and sent it along as something they thought

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Speaker 2: might make for a fun story.

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Speaker 1: Wow, So who put these signs up?

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Speaker 2: The man who put these signs up is a guy

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Speaker 2: whose name is Dominic Broccoli.

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Speaker 1: That's his real name.

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Speaker 2: That is his real given birth name. Great name. He

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Speaker 2: is a character who lives up to his name in

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Speaker 2: many ways. Comes from an Italian family, as you might

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Speaker 2: be able to guess. His family owned a restaurant, popular

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Speaker 2: Italian restaurant in the Bronx for decades. He shut it

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Speaker 2: down after his father died, business had changed and opened

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Speaker 2: an eye hop. Proceeded to open a number of eye hops.

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Speaker 1: And does that make you a lot of money? Because

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Speaker 1: Dominic rich for his eye hops.

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Speaker 2: As he told it to me, he's doing very well

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Speaker 2: for himself, so much so that it allowed him to

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Speaker 2: fund this effort to build another IHOP in the town

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Speaker 2: of Fishkill, about ninety minutes north of New York City.

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Speaker 2: The one in Fishkill was meant to be his fifth

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Speaker 2: and his largest and most elaborate.

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Speaker 1: Yet the fifth, much like the ninth Symphony, is always

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Speaker 1: the hardest.

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Speaker 2: That's true.

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Speaker 1: So where's the problem start.

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Speaker 2: Initially, it's just a real estate play with a cousin

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Speaker 2: of his. He actually bought this property back in the

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Speaker 2: eighties just as an investment. But eventually he decided, I'm

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Speaker 2: going to put in a strip mall here. The problem

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Speaker 2: starts in two thousand and seven. And the backdrop here

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Speaker 2: is that Fishkill and much of kind of Hudson Valley,

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Speaker 2: New York, is steeped in Revolutionary War history.

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Speaker 1: Is there a Battle of Fishkill?

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Speaker 2: There was no Battle of Fishkill. What there was in

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Speaker 2: Fishkill was the Fishkill supply Depot, which is one of

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Speaker 2: these sort of artifacts of history that was incredibly important

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Speaker 2: and also a little bit boring to look back on.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I got bored when you said supply depot, I'll

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Speaker 1: be completely honest.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's kind of the end of it,

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Speaker 2: and it sort of tells you most of what you

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Speaker 2: need to know. It was a place where when George

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Speaker 2: Washington's troops needed muskets or rations or whatever, they would

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Speaker 2: get them from there. So that's the backdrop. If you

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Speaker 2: go to Fishkill now, it's like any town in America.

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Speaker 2: There's chain restaurants, there's hotels, there's a Sam's Club. There's

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Speaker 2: a big gap distribution warehouse for the clothing company and

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Speaker 2: built on top of where this supply depot used to be.

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Speaker 1: It's just a new kind of a supply depot. It's

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Speaker 1: got the gap and Sam's Club.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's got everything the modern America needs. There's long

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Speaker 2: been a rumor in town that there might be a

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Speaker 2: mass grave somewhere in Fishkill of Revolutionary War.

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Speaker 1: Soldiers, you mean, like a cemetery.

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Speaker 2: A cemetery, And there's a couple of reasons to think that. One,

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Speaker 2: there's reports from the Battle of White Plains, which was

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Speaker 2: a major battle in the Revolutionary War, and how tons

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Speaker 2: of bodies were brought to Fishkill, And if you read

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Speaker 2: certain historical texts, there was reason to think one possible

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Speaker 2: place for the cemetery was Dominic BROCCOLI's property. So in

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Speaker 2: two thousand and seven, the state of New York has

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Speaker 2: a Historic Preservation office and they asked Dominic to do

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Speaker 2: a study and to actually dig into the ground and

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Speaker 2: see what was there. They went through with the dig,

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Speaker 2: hired in a team of archaeologists led by a guy

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Speaker 2: named Bill Sandy, and they spent about a month digging

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Speaker 2: a couple of large trenches on Dominic's property, found some artifacts,

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Speaker 2: and eventually, sort of towards the end of that month,

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Speaker 2: they found what appeared to be a row of graves.

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Speaker 2: So Bill Sandy dug into one of the graves, hit bone,

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Speaker 2: found a skull and said, okay, this is it. We

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Speaker 2: finally found the cemetery. In his words, he thought, this

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Speaker 2: is going to be a national monument tomorrow case closes.

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Speaker 1: Are people excited? Like? Are historians or journalists excited about this?

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Speaker 2: At the time, the discovery was covered in The New

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Speaker 2: York Times. Chuck Schumer Senator Chuck Schumer a year or

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Speaker 2: two later, showed up in Fishkill part of a campaign.

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Speaker 2: He was at the time looking to expand this program

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Speaker 2: that preserves military sites and what really led to a

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Speaker 2: lot of the attention was another archaeologist did what's called

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Speaker 2: a ground penetrating radar study, which is basically pushing a

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Speaker 2: thing that looks kind of like a lawnmower across the

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Speaker 2: ground and it gets readings from what's underneath.

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Speaker 1: And that's sounds fake. This sounds like those guys on

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Speaker 1: the beach looking for metal.

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Speaker 2: I think it's only a little bit more advanced than that.

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Speaker 2: And the report that came back included a line that

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Speaker 2: said something roughly to the effect of, we found some

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Speaker 2: three hundred more anomalies as they called them, that appeared

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Speaker 2: to be like the graves. Oh so, at that point,

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Speaker 2: Dominic BROCCOLI's property, which was going to be a strip mall,

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Speaker 2: was suddenly being called New York's Valley Forge and being

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Speaker 2: described as possibly the largest cemetery of Revolutionary War soldiers

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Speaker 2: anywhere in the country.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so what's the plan? Is the government going to

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Speaker 1: buy it from him?

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Speaker 2: Chuck Schumer had showed up on this notion that the

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Speaker 2: federal government might be able to step in by the

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Speaker 2: property turn it into a national park of some kind.

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Speaker 2: The problem is, the American Battlefield Protection Program, as it

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Speaker 2: is called, has the word battlefield in it.

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Speaker 1: And it should. The more I think about this, I'm

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Speaker 1: not going to go visit what was formerly a cemetery

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Speaker 1: and it's not a cemetery anymore. This sounds like a crap.

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Speaker 1: This doesn't sound like an interesting place to visit.

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Speaker 2: That has always been kind of the uphill battle. And

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Speaker 2: so the group of people that were trying to convince

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Speaker 2: you that you're wrong was a group that sort of

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Speaker 2: formed after the body was found, and they called themselves

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Speaker 2: the Friends of the Fishkill Supply Depot, and they basically

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Speaker 2: came up with a plan to try to turn this

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Speaker 2: site into some thing like Jamestown where there's kind of

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Speaker 2: this working archaeological dig.

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Speaker 1: No one's building another Jamestown.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So the Friends of the Fishkill Supply Depot had

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Speaker 2: this very grand vision for what this was going to become.

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Speaker 2: And I would say, in some ways it's fair to

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Speaker 2: say that it was naive to think that it would

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Speaker 2: become this big, huge, massive tourist attraction.

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Speaker 1: Who are these people who are into the idea of

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Speaker 1: building a new Williamsburg without peanut soup. It's a weird

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Speaker 1: that's the only reason they got r Yeah, it's.

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Speaker 2: A weird sort of local mishmash of people.

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Speaker 1: Is that a way of saying old people?

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Speaker 2: I think they would push back on that characterization, but

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Speaker 2: I think by and large that's fair to say. The

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Speaker 2: group was made up largely of the kinds of people

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Speaker 2: who show up to town board meetings to complain about X,

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Speaker 2: Y or z. Another faction of people who were sort

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Speaker 2: of Revolutionary War re enactors.

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Speaker 1: Who's running this group the Friends of the Fishkill Supply Depot.

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Speaker 2: The president of the Friends is a guy named Lance

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Speaker 2: Ashworth is a West Point graduate and an FBI agent,

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Speaker 2: like real, actual FBI agent. He was involved in, you know,

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Speaker 2: catching an Israeli spy in New Jersey back in the

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Speaker 2: two thousands.

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Speaker 1: Does he look like an FBI agent?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, classically, you know, burly guy, shaved head. Where Dominic

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Speaker 2: is incredibly outgoing and all over the place. Lance is

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Speaker 2: very straightforward and kind of buy the book. So he's

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Speaker 2: running it with kind of this support crew of Bill, Sandy,

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Speaker 2: the archaeologists and these re enactors.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so what does Broccoli do once these people get

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Speaker 1: together and try and save this land.

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Speaker 2: At first, he tries to work with them. He's kind

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Speaker 2: of like, well, okay, maybe I'm not gonna be able

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Speaker 2: to build my strip mall. So these guys can buy

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Speaker 2: the property, then good luck to them. So he gives

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Speaker 2: them a chance to buy it. We're talking probably a

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Speaker 2: couple million dollars to buy this property. They can't come

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Speaker 2: up with the money, and so it's sort of back

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Speaker 2: to the drawing board, and Dominic sort of offered this chance. Well,

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Speaker 2: I could give you this small part of the property

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Speaker 2: where we found the graves, and you could just keep that.

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Speaker 2: But the friends their position was, we think there's bodies everywhere.

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Speaker 2: We think this whole thing should be a park, not

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Speaker 2: just the half acre you want to give us. The

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Speaker 2: negotiation kind of falls apart at that point.

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Speaker 1: So it seems a good compromise is that there'd be

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Speaker 1: some area where the cemetery actually was, that's some kind

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Speaker 1: of historical site. But then you get your sweet sweet

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Speaker 1: eye hop in the property without the graves. It's not

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Speaker 1: going to work.

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Speaker 2: That's the best of all worlds. But what starts to

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Speaker 2: happen is Dominic starts taking a look at other parts

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Speaker 2: of the property and does some more digs to kind

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Speaker 2: of see what's under there. And he does another dig

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Speaker 2: and they find half a dozen more spots that seem

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Speaker 2: like graves. They find some bones, So.

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Speaker 1: He keeps looking for a spot for an eye hoop,

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Speaker 1: and they keeps.

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Speaker 2: Kind of thinking. He keeps thinking, Okay, if I dig

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Speaker 2: over here and I show there's nothing there, then that's

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Speaker 2: somewhere I can build and maybe the rest of it'll

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Speaker 2: be fine.

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Speaker 1: But he keeps finding bones, keeps finding.

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Speaker 2: Some more things, and then eventually he talks to one

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Speaker 2: of his archaeologists about that initial study that showed that

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Speaker 2: there were some three hundred bodies buried on the property,

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Speaker 2: and this other archaeologist points out that the report just

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Speaker 2: said they were anomalies, not graves, and anomalies, in archaeologists speak,

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Speaker 2: could be any number of things. It could be it

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Speaker 2: just means that there's something under the ground. It might

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Speaker 2: be a boulder, it might be a tree stump, it

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Speaker 2: might be like a rodent burrow.

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Speaker 1: Wait, so all like the New York Times story like

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Speaker 1: there might be wrong. There may not be three hundred

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Speaker 1: soldiers buried under there.

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Speaker 2: Yes, So Dominic once he found that out, he had

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Speaker 2: another team of archaeologists dig into some of the places

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Speaker 2: where the anomalies were found, and in every single case

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Speaker 2: they didn't find anything, which was very surprising, shocking to

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Speaker 2: the person who had conducted the study. They said it

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Speaker 2: they almost never, you never get it that wrong. And

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Speaker 2: then what made Dominic even more suspicious was that in

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Speaker 2: a couple of the places, it seemed that the dirt

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Speaker 2: under the ground had been recently disturbed thereway, implying what

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Speaker 2: what Dominic came to believe is that the friends of

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Speaker 2: the fishkill supply depot were planting bones that they were

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Speaker 2: hoping Dominic would find in an effort to make it

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Speaker 2: seem like there were hundreds and hundreds of Revolutionary war soldiers,

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Speaker 2: when in fact, in Dominic's conception, these were just bones

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Speaker 2: that had been buried yesterday.

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Speaker 1: Wait, so the accusation is that the FBI agent who

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Speaker 1: runs this group to save this area might have been

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Speaker 1: grabbing bones, burying them from some late at night from somewhere.

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Speaker 1: FBI guys can get bones anywhere, and they burying them

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Speaker 1: late at night in the ground in order to save

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Speaker 1: this piece of land and not turn it into an

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Speaker 1: ie hop. Yes, wow, okay, And what are the other

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Speaker 1: tactics the friends are using besides possibly bearing fake bones

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Speaker 1: in order to win this battle?

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Speaker 2: So they were trying to push this kind of promotional

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Speaker 2: campaign pr campaign. And they had a connection to a

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Speaker 2: local community college and there was a class there and

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Speaker 2: I think sort of video production, and got a couple

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Speaker 2: of students in the class to make a video but

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Speaker 2: basically about the history of the depot, largely from the

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Speaker 2: friend's perspective, telling the story of why it's important to

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Speaker 2: preserve this property.

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Speaker 1: Propaganda.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's I think a fair way to put it.

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Speaker 1: Much like the painting of Washington crossing the Delaware. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's a giant piece of propaganda.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. So Lance Ashworth, the head of the Friends,

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Speaker 2: started working with his community college class along with another member,

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Speaker 2: a guy named Alec Crosby who had joined joined the Friends.

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Speaker 2: And Alec Krasby was an unusual figure in that he

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Speaker 2: was young relatively, he was in his thirties, and he

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Speaker 2: just kind of always seemed to be available to help

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Speaker 2: the Friends with stuff, and so he jumped in with

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Speaker 2: Lance to help with this community college project. And Lance

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Speaker 2: had told the kids do not go to the property.

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Speaker 2: If you do, the landowners gonna call the police on you.

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Speaker 2: But while Lance is away, Alec Crosby tells the kids,

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Speaker 2: let's go let's go over and visit the property. Let's

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Speaker 2: go get some b roll. The kids show up and

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Speaker 2: within a few minutes there's a Mexican restaurant across the

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Speaker 2: street called the Maya Cafe, and within a few minutes,

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Speaker 2: Dominic Broccoli walks out of my A Cafe just happens

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Speaker 2: to be there at the same time that these kids

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Speaker 2: are there, walks over, tells them come on over to

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Speaker 2: the Maya Cafe. Let's have some drinks and I'll show

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Speaker 2: you my presentation about why I think the friends are

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Speaker 2: lying about what's on the property and why you should

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Speaker 2: believe me and not them.

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Speaker 1: That's a great pivot. Instead of arresting them, just try

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Speaker 1: and convince them. That's brilliant.

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Speaker 2: I know, soft carrot, there's a stick. And so Lance

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Speaker 2: greets this his terrible news when Alec tells him.

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Speaker 1: And because they stop making this documentary, he wins them over.

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Speaker 2: It kind of created this tension in the group. Two

285
00:15:08,424 --> 00:15:11,224
Speaker 2: of them were like, whatever this is, I just need

286
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Speaker 2: to graduate and get this done. Let's just make this thing.

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Speaker 2: And then you had two kids who were like, no,

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Speaker 2: there is actually a conspiracy going on. Let's fight. Let's

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Speaker 2: get to the bottom of this and so sort of

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Speaker 2: tore the group apart.

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Speaker 1: When we come back, the friends of Fishkill Supply Depot

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Speaker 1: will start to wonder if something fishy is going on.

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Speaker 1: But first our advertisers have an incredible offer on some

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Speaker 1: fake eighteenth century skeleton bones and boison berry syrup. Okay,

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00:15:48,424 --> 00:15:52,944
Speaker 1: so these community college kids go onto Dominic BROCCOLI's property

296
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Speaker 1: despite being warned to shoot some of this video. But

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Speaker 1: he sees them from this Mexican restaurant and then walks

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00:16:00,744 --> 00:16:04,584
Speaker 1: over and offers to buy them drinks, which seems a

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00:16:04,624 --> 00:16:06,664
Speaker 1: little too convenient, right, It was a.

300
00:16:06,624 --> 00:16:10,584
Speaker 2: Little unusual, like, why, of all days was Dominic Broccoli

301
00:16:10,624 --> 00:16:14,664
Speaker 2: there at the precise exact time that these kids are there.

302
00:16:15,264 --> 00:16:17,984
Speaker 1: He is just at this cafe with a presentation ready

303
00:16:17,984 --> 00:16:18,544
Speaker 1: to go.

304
00:16:18,824 --> 00:16:23,344
Speaker 2: Like on his laptop, open, lengthy presentation, just like ready

305
00:16:23,344 --> 00:16:27,144
Speaker 2: to go and spend a couple hours with some college kids.

306
00:16:26,984 --> 00:16:28,944
Speaker 1: When he's a guy who lives in the Bronx doesn't

307
00:16:28,984 --> 00:16:29,664
Speaker 1: even live there.

308
00:16:29,824 --> 00:16:34,224
Speaker 2: Pretty strange. And so by this point, let you know,

309
00:16:34,384 --> 00:16:37,224
Speaker 2: Lance emails the friends in this kind of spy thriller

310
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Speaker 2: way to just say, keep things to yourself. Spies are

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Speaker 2: at play once again in Fishkill.

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Speaker 1: Just like the Revolutionary War, just like the revolution they

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Speaker 1: were when there was a Hercules Mulligan.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. There there were actual spies in Fishkill, and

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Speaker 2: in fact, there was a very famous spy named Enoch Crosby,

316
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Speaker 2: who is an American spy based in Fishkill.

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Speaker 1: Well the same name as Crosby, as the young guy

318
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Speaker 1: in Friends.

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Speaker 2: You are starting to piece together what it took the

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00:17:05,064 --> 00:17:07,344
Speaker 2: friends along time to piece together.

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Speaker 1: Well, it helps I write your story.

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Speaker 2: Which is the fact that Alec Crosby was not Ali Crosby.

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Speaker 2: He was, in fact a spy, a private investigator whose

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Speaker 2: real name is Ian Bondi, hired by Dominic Broccoli to

325
00:17:23,504 --> 00:17:26,824
Speaker 2: infiltrate the Friends of the Fishkill Supply Depot, dig up dirt,

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00:17:26,904 --> 00:17:29,384
Speaker 2: all in an effort to scuttle their plans.

327
00:17:29,664 --> 00:17:33,024
Speaker 1: Wait how long is Ian Bondi spending on this spy mission?

328
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Speaker 2: Years years of his life. Yeah, I think he'd got

329
00:17:37,024 --> 00:17:42,464
Speaker 2: other assignments. But for about three years he was regularly

330
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Speaker 2: going to meetings of the Friends of the Fishkill Supply

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Speaker 2: Depot under an assumed name.

332
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Speaker 1: Is this the craziest job that guy's ever had?

333
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Speaker 2: He did tell me at one point about like having

334
00:17:51,264 --> 00:17:53,904
Speaker 2: to like sit in someone's backyard to see if aliens

335
00:17:53,944 --> 00:17:57,304
Speaker 2: were landing. So that's stranger, but I think this was

336
00:17:58,024 --> 00:17:59,944
Speaker 2: you know, as he said, he lived in the area,

337
00:17:59,984 --> 00:18:02,624
Speaker 2: and this kind of became an all consuming thing where

338
00:18:02,664 --> 00:18:05,344
Speaker 2: his even his friends and family started calling him by

339
00:18:05,384 --> 00:18:09,664
Speaker 2: his assumed name name by Ala Crosby. And then he

340
00:18:09,704 --> 00:18:11,544
Speaker 2: said that he had girlfriends who didn't know his name.

341
00:18:11,664 --> 00:18:15,104
Speaker 1: I can't believe, to save a possible I hoop, you

342
00:18:15,144 --> 00:18:19,504
Speaker 1: would date women under a fake name. That's a devotion

343
00:18:19,624 --> 00:18:20,184
Speaker 1: to craft.

344
00:18:20,544 --> 00:18:24,744
Speaker 2: Yeah. The one time he told me that he felt

345
00:18:25,024 --> 00:18:27,864
Speaker 2: really nervous was there was a moment when Lance had

346
00:18:27,864 --> 00:18:30,184
Speaker 2: brought one of his colleagues from the FBI to one

347
00:18:30,184 --> 00:18:33,984
Speaker 2: of the meetings, and so suddenly Ian described himself as

348
00:18:34,024 --> 00:18:37,424
Speaker 2: sitting there like between two FBI agents in his own

349
00:18:37,504 --> 00:18:40,104
Speaker 2: fit of paranoia. When the meeting was over, he said,

350
00:18:40,104 --> 00:18:43,184
Speaker 2: he rolled up his sleeves and just wiped down the

351
00:18:43,264 --> 00:18:46,824
Speaker 2: table to in case they were onto him and thinking

352
00:18:46,864 --> 00:18:48,904
Speaker 2: of snacking his fingerprints.

353
00:18:48,904 --> 00:18:51,944
Speaker 1: So the group's run by an FBI agent. How does

354
00:18:51,984 --> 00:18:55,184
Speaker 1: an FBI agent get fooled by like a spy who's

355
00:18:55,184 --> 00:18:58,144
Speaker 1: normally getting hired to make sure that aliens don't appear

356
00:18:58,144 --> 00:18:58,824
Speaker 1: in your backyard.

357
00:18:59,464 --> 00:19:03,024
Speaker 2: I think Lance did defend himself, and I think reasonably so.

358
00:19:04,024 --> 00:19:09,024
Speaker 2: When you start running volunteer organization dedicated to historic preservation

359
00:19:09,184 --> 00:19:12,064
Speaker 2: and you don't think that you're going to be infiltrated

360
00:19:12,104 --> 00:19:13,864
Speaker 2: by a paid spy.

361
00:19:14,384 --> 00:19:17,544
Speaker 1: You must get made fun of so badly at FBI

362
00:19:17,624 --> 00:19:21,624
Speaker 1: headquarters that you've been fooled by. Dominic Broccoli is like

363
00:19:21,704 --> 00:19:22,384
Speaker 1: amateur spy.

364
00:19:22,824 --> 00:19:25,424
Speaker 2: I don't think it was a great look for him.

365
00:19:25,784 --> 00:19:29,544
Speaker 1: Okay, what else did this spy find out for Dominic Brocoli.

366
00:19:30,144 --> 00:19:31,544
Speaker 2: The main thing he was there to do was just

367
00:19:31,584 --> 00:19:33,864
Speaker 2: collect information. So Alic Crosby was showing up to all

368
00:19:33,904 --> 00:19:36,424
Speaker 2: these events with a recorder in his pocket.

369
00:19:36,864 --> 00:19:37,704
Speaker 1: He was all wired up.

370
00:19:37,944 --> 00:19:39,824
Speaker 2: He was wired up, and they were just trying to

371
00:19:39,904 --> 00:19:43,944
Speaker 2: catch the Friends in a lot of cases just talking

372
00:19:43,984 --> 00:19:48,104
Speaker 2: shit about Dominic. One of the sort of best examples

373
00:19:48,344 --> 00:19:51,824
Speaker 2: was they were at this event and this woman who

374
00:19:51,904 --> 00:19:54,184
Speaker 2: was served for a time as the vice president of

375
00:19:54,224 --> 00:19:56,704
Speaker 2: the Friends, was joking with a group of people that

376
00:19:56,744 --> 00:20:00,424
Speaker 2: Dominic Broccoli had connections in the cement and stone business,

377
00:20:01,264 --> 00:20:05,344
Speaker 2: which she then elaborated on by saying begins with an

378
00:20:05,544 --> 00:20:06,864
Speaker 2: m ends with an a.

379
00:20:07,904 --> 00:20:10,544
Speaker 1: Oh, this is an anti Italian American slur.

380
00:20:10,784 --> 00:20:14,584
Speaker 2: It does seem so basically, and without much evidence, the

381
00:20:14,664 --> 00:20:18,584
Speaker 2: friends were trying to connect Dominic to the mob. Dominic

382
00:20:18,584 --> 00:20:21,224
Speaker 2: then turned around with this and in a few other

383
00:20:21,264 --> 00:20:25,824
Speaker 2: cases sued members of the friends for defamation. And he

384
00:20:25,864 --> 00:20:28,784
Speaker 2: had by this point had started giving them all nicknames.

385
00:20:29,224 --> 00:20:30,544
Speaker 1: This woman's name the friends.

386
00:20:30,704 --> 00:20:33,544
Speaker 2: All the friends got nicknames. This woman. Her name was Barbara,

387
00:20:33,544 --> 00:20:35,784
Speaker 2: and so he started referring to her as Barbara the bigot.

388
00:20:36,224 --> 00:20:40,704
Speaker 2: Nice Lance Ashworth, for all of his supposed exaggeration about

389
00:20:40,704 --> 00:20:43,504
Speaker 2: what might be on the property, was now sir Lance

390
00:20:43,664 --> 00:20:44,384
Speaker 2: lies a lot.

391
00:20:45,224 --> 00:20:46,144
Speaker 1: This is very Trumpian.

392
00:20:46,464 --> 00:20:49,544
Speaker 2: Well I thought so too, as Dominic told me, this

393
00:20:49,704 --> 00:20:51,824
Speaker 2: is just how people talk in the Bronx.

394
00:20:52,784 --> 00:20:54,984
Speaker 1: Is they give dads from the Bronx. My dad doesn't

395
00:20:54,984 --> 00:20:56,344
Speaker 1: give people weird nicknames.

396
00:20:56,184 --> 00:20:59,184
Speaker 2: And Trump's from queens, so you know. But anyway, the

397
00:20:59,264 --> 00:21:02,704
Speaker 2: last nickname was for a guy named Marty Bister, and

398
00:21:02,784 --> 00:21:08,464
Speaker 2: the nickname Dominic gave him was bone burying Bister. And

399
00:21:08,624 --> 00:21:12,064
Speaker 2: the reason for that, yeah, it's a little too too

400
00:21:12,104 --> 00:21:15,904
Speaker 2: many syllables. What it happened to lead to that nickname

401
00:21:15,984 --> 00:21:18,504
Speaker 2: is that Alec Crosby had been at a meeting and

402
00:21:18,584 --> 00:21:22,384
Speaker 2: recorded Marty Bister saying to another member of the friends,

403
00:21:22,984 --> 00:21:25,184
Speaker 2: were you there when we buried the bones?

404
00:21:25,704 --> 00:21:25,944
Speaker 1: What?

405
00:21:27,344 --> 00:21:30,664
Speaker 2: Yeah? And you know when Dominic hered that, he said,

406
00:21:31,304 --> 00:21:34,144
Speaker 2: this is it. This is the evidence I've been seeking

407
00:21:34,864 --> 00:21:39,384
Speaker 2: that all along, they in fact had buried bones on

408
00:21:39,424 --> 00:21:43,384
Speaker 2: my property. So he freaks out, Sue's Marty Bister and

409
00:21:43,424 --> 00:21:46,904
Speaker 2: the friends. This is the moment when Alec Crosby's identity

410
00:21:46,984 --> 00:21:50,064
Speaker 2: is revealed, because he has to reveal himself through this lawsuit,

411
00:21:50,864 --> 00:21:54,384
Speaker 2: and it suddenly enters the debate as a possibility that

412
00:21:54,504 --> 00:21:57,504
Speaker 2: maybe the friends of the Fishkill Supply Depot actually did

413
00:21:57,544 --> 00:22:00,104
Speaker 2: bury human bones on the property.

414
00:22:00,304 --> 00:22:01,544
Speaker 1: Do you think they buried bones?

415
00:22:02,664 --> 00:22:07,144
Speaker 2: I don't, but I have talked to people I would

416
00:22:07,184 --> 00:22:12,464
Speaker 2: consider to be reasonable and sober minded in Fishkill who

417
00:22:12,544 --> 00:22:15,104
Speaker 2: are not willing to rule it out.

418
00:22:15,424 --> 00:22:17,704
Speaker 1: So it's not insane that it's possible.

419
00:22:17,704 --> 00:22:20,224
Speaker 2: It's insane. It would be insane to have done this.

420
00:22:21,144 --> 00:22:25,464
Speaker 2: It's almost impossibly far fetched, and if true, would be

421
00:22:25,504 --> 00:22:28,424
Speaker 2: such a stupid thing to do that it's hard.

422
00:22:28,464 --> 00:22:31,784
Speaker 1: You did endanger your FBI career, You go to jail. Yeah,

423
00:22:31,824 --> 00:22:35,304
Speaker 1: it's just for a Revolutionary War re enactment site. It

424
00:22:35,344 --> 00:22:36,024
Speaker 1: seems like a lot.

425
00:22:36,224 --> 00:22:39,504
Speaker 2: But Dominic Braccley is convinced of this, and does.

426
00:22:39,344 --> 00:22:41,704
Speaker 1: The local government get involved at any point? Are they

427
00:22:41,704 --> 00:22:42,304
Speaker 1: sty out of us?

428
00:22:42,464 --> 00:22:44,224
Speaker 2: Yeah? Well, part of this is when you develop a

429
00:22:44,224 --> 00:22:46,504
Speaker 2: piece of property, you have to get a bunch of approvals.

430
00:22:46,664 --> 00:22:50,504
Speaker 2: So this development very much came up at endless town

431
00:22:50,584 --> 00:22:55,744
Speaker 2: hall meetings as Dominic tried to pursue various approvals. In

432
00:22:55,824 --> 00:22:59,504
Speaker 2: his mind, very much the local government was out to

433
00:22:59,544 --> 00:23:03,504
Speaker 2: get him. The sort of most concrete example took Luice

434
00:23:03,784 --> 00:23:07,664
Speaker 2: in twenty nineteen during an election for town supervisor, which

435
00:23:07,744 --> 00:23:12,264
Speaker 2: is basically mayor. Candidate's basically ran on an anti Continental

436
00:23:12,304 --> 00:23:13,664
Speaker 2: Commons platform.

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00:23:14,864 --> 00:23:17,984
Speaker 1: Their platform was just against his strip mall. It was

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00:23:18,024 --> 00:23:18,984
Speaker 1: that big a thing in this town.

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00:23:19,064 --> 00:23:21,984
Speaker 2: I believe it was one of his you know, five

440
00:23:22,024 --> 00:23:24,024
Speaker 2: got like five things, and this is one of them.

441
00:23:24,104 --> 00:23:28,224
Speaker 2: But that guy won in November. In December, there was

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00:23:28,304 --> 00:23:30,824
Speaker 2: set to be a meeting where Dominic was getting his

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00:23:30,864 --> 00:23:34,184
Speaker 2: final approval that would more or less clear the path

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00:23:34,304 --> 00:23:36,864
Speaker 2: for him to go forward. But at this meeting, and

445
00:23:36,944 --> 00:23:39,664
Speaker 2: it was before the new supervisor was supposed to take over,

446
00:23:40,144 --> 00:23:44,704
Speaker 2: At this meeting, just coincidentally, one person was sick, one

447
00:23:44,744 --> 00:23:48,024
Speaker 2: person's wife was sick, one person resigned, and then someone

448
00:23:48,024 --> 00:23:50,824
Speaker 2: else got stuck with a flat tire in Westchester, like

449
00:23:50,904 --> 00:23:53,344
Speaker 2: five minutes before the meeting, so they couldn't hold the meeting.

450
00:23:53,384 --> 00:23:57,224
Speaker 2: The approval gets pushed into the new mayor's term, and

451
00:23:57,464 --> 00:24:02,144
Speaker 2: he more or less successfully for several years, just pushed

452
00:24:02,144 --> 00:24:04,104
Speaker 2: off this approval several years.

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00:24:04,144 --> 00:24:06,424
Speaker 1: How long does this whole thing last? Is this like

454
00:24:06,504 --> 00:24:08,184
Speaker 1: longer than the Revolutionary War itself?

455
00:24:08,304 --> 00:24:13,584
Speaker 2: We have past the market which George Washington was finally successful.

456
00:24:13,744 --> 00:24:16,424
Speaker 2: The bones were found in two thousand and seven. It's

457
00:24:16,464 --> 00:24:21,424
Speaker 2: twenty twenty three. Dominic has not started building anything. He

458
00:24:21,584 --> 00:24:25,424
Speaker 2: still says that he intends to and plans to. At

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00:24:25,424 --> 00:24:28,424
Speaker 2: this stage, it's difficult to imagine anything happening other than

460
00:24:28,464 --> 00:24:30,984
Speaker 2: it staying in this kind of stalemate where it seems

461
00:24:31,024 --> 00:24:32,264
Speaker 2: destined to exist.

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00:24:32,624 --> 00:24:36,344
Speaker 1: How much is Dominic Broccoli spending on this project? Is

463
00:24:36,344 --> 00:24:38,984
Speaker 1: it ever going to make it back in eye hop money?

464
00:24:39,064 --> 00:24:41,624
Speaker 2: He claims it's in the seven figures, that it's over

465
00:24:41,664 --> 00:24:44,024
Speaker 2: a million dollars, and I think into the millions of

466
00:24:44,064 --> 00:24:46,864
Speaker 2: dollars at this point. And he has said to me

467
00:24:47,024 --> 00:24:49,584
Speaker 2: now that it's not about the money for him anymore.

468
00:24:49,624 --> 00:24:53,024
Speaker 2: It's about getting revenge. But at this point between the

469
00:24:53,064 --> 00:24:56,504
Speaker 2: lawyers and the archaeologist and his paid spy. It's hard

470
00:24:56,544 --> 00:24:58,744
Speaker 2: to imagine him, ever like fully making it back.

471
00:24:59,064 --> 00:25:01,144
Speaker 1: So there's no imminent eye hoop in Fishkill.

472
00:25:01,544 --> 00:25:03,864
Speaker 2: If I had a nickel for every time Dominic told

473
00:25:03,904 --> 00:25:06,104
Speaker 2: me he was about to put a shovel in the ground,

474
00:25:06,344 --> 00:25:08,424
Speaker 2: I'd be as rich as he is from his eye hops.

475
00:25:09,224 --> 00:25:12,744
Speaker 2: I have a feeling this fight will be with us

476
00:25:13,304 --> 00:25:15,304
Speaker 2: for a while. We'll just have to see whether the

477
00:25:15,304 --> 00:25:17,104
Speaker 2: iap itself actually gets built.

478
00:25:17,304 --> 00:25:20,544
Speaker 1: Reeves Wideman, you wrote the Battle of Fishkill for New

479
00:25:20,624 --> 00:25:24,064
Speaker 1: York Magazine, and you are a true American. Thank you

480
00:25:24,304 --> 00:25:25,184
Speaker 1: so much for coming on.

481
00:25:25,544 --> 00:25:27,904
Speaker 2: Happy to be of service to my fellow countryman.

482
00:25:29,024 --> 00:25:31,904
Speaker 1: I was at the Metropolitan Museum in New York last week.

483
00:25:32,584 --> 00:25:34,624
Speaker 1: I tell you this only to let you know how

484
00:25:34,664 --> 00:25:37,424
Speaker 1: cultured I am. I also saw jazz at the Vanguard,

485
00:25:37,584 --> 00:25:39,384
Speaker 1: which has even less to do with the point I'm

486
00:25:39,384 --> 00:25:42,744
Speaker 1: trying to make. I saw the painting of Washington crossing

487
00:25:42,784 --> 00:25:47,144
Speaker 1: the Delaware. It is huge, like picture the biggest wall

488
00:25:47,184 --> 00:25:49,944
Speaker 1: of your house and then double it, and the frame's

489
00:25:49,984 --> 00:25:54,344
Speaker 1: even more ridiculous. Gold everywhere, an eagle on the top,

490
00:25:54,504 --> 00:25:57,664
Speaker 1: cannon's on the bottom. In the painting. There's just all

491
00:25:57,704 --> 00:26:00,944
Speaker 1: these shivering rowers, struggling and pushing chunks of ice out

492
00:26:00,944 --> 00:26:04,424
Speaker 1: of the boat's way, and Washington is just standing on

493
00:26:04,464 --> 00:26:07,664
Speaker 1: this boat looking like he's about to deliver an aria.

494
00:26:08,504 --> 00:26:12,384
Speaker 1: It's just overt propaganda, and we're still using the same

495
00:26:12,464 --> 00:26:16,664
Speaker 1: propaganda to sell this country's story to ourselves and to me.

496
00:26:17,424 --> 00:26:19,904
Speaker 1: That story is that we should be allowed to build

497
00:26:20,024 --> 00:26:25,184
Speaker 1: I hops whenever and wherever we want. I mean, isn't

498
00:26:25,184 --> 00:26:26,424
Speaker 1: that what Washington fought for.

499
00:26:29,424 --> 00:26:32,624
Speaker 3: At the end of the show, what's next for Joel Stein?

500
00:26:32,784 --> 00:26:36,264
Speaker 3: Maybe you'll take a naper poker round online.

501
00:26:36,864 --> 00:26:40,344
Speaker 1: Our show today was produced by Kate mccauliffe and Nishavenka.

502
00:26:40,784 --> 00:26:44,064
Speaker 1: It was edited by Lydia Jean Kot. Our engineer is

503
00:26:44,104 --> 00:26:47,504
Speaker 1: a Mandy Kate Wang, and our executive producer is Catherine Giraudou.

504
00:26:48,464 --> 00:26:51,424
Speaker 1: Our theme song was written and performed by Jonathan Colton

505
00:26:51,824 --> 00:26:54,184
Speaker 1: and a special thanks to my voice coach Vicky Merrick

506
00:26:54,224 --> 00:26:59,704
Speaker 1: and my consulting producer Lauren Salasnik. To find more Pushkin podcasts,

507
00:26:59,904 --> 00:27:03,344
Speaker 1: listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

508
00:27:03,424 --> 00:27:06,824
Speaker 1: listen to your podcasts. I'm Joel Stein and this is

509
00:27:06,944 --> 00:27:07,704
Speaker 1: Story of the Week.

510
00:27:11,624 --> 00:27:14,344
Speaker 2: Dominic in his conception of building his I hop, he

511
00:27:14,424 --> 00:27:17,184
Speaker 2: was going to lean into the Revolutionary War history and

512
00:27:17,224 --> 00:27:19,784
Speaker 2: he was going to have the weight staff at this

513
00:27:20,984 --> 00:27:25,184
Speaker 2: at this I hoop wearing like tricorn hats and bonnets.

514
00:27:24,944 --> 00:27:26,544
Speaker 2: That's so yeah, that's.

515
00:27:26,384 --> 00:27:28,904
Speaker 1: A compromise for me. I'm taking that as a win.

516
00:27:28,984 --> 00:27:33,504
Speaker 1: If one bowl of peanut soup with your pancakes and

517
00:27:33,544 --> 00:27:35,264
Speaker 1: that's that'll do it all I need.

518
00:27:35,384 --> 00:27:38,944
Speaker 2: Yeah,