Speaker 1: Guys, we are back with voice memos. We didn't have
Speaker 1: writer last time, so I figured now is the moment
Speaker 1: to reiterate the situation. We have a very dramatic reason
Speaker 1: to be talking to fans this week. And what we
Speaker 1: did is we put out a call on Instagram and
Speaker 1: we said, if you feel the same sort of passion
Speaker 1: as our host did regarding whether or not Topanga set
Speaker 1: a trap for send us a voice memo under one minute,
Speaker 1: which is a very tight place to be put in.
Speaker 1: A lot of people talk like the micromine a micromachine
Speaker 1: man in order to get.
Speaker 2: At the f Oh jeez, I remember he was the best.
Speaker 1: And so yeah, we have clips from people who believe
Speaker 1: it was a trap, clips from people who think it
Speaker 1: wasn't a trap, and some people who just have thoughts.
Speaker 2: Wow, okay, all right.
Speaker 3: We know which team I'm on. I have not changed
Speaker 3: my mind at all.
Speaker 2: I have not either. I'm still tea trapped them.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think if anything, I'm confused because I feel
Speaker 4: like Danielle's position is actually that it was a trap.
Speaker 4: It's just that that to Panga didn't well I don't know.
Speaker 3: Was that it was the way to Panga The way
Speaker 3: she said it and set it up in the opener
Speaker 3: is clear to me. It was never intended to be
Speaker 3: a trap. At the end of the episode, they threw
Speaker 3: her under the bus and made it.
Speaker 4: They threw under the bus part, because that's the part
Speaker 4: that throws me off, like what you're saying, because I
Speaker 4: feel like you're coming at this from a defensive position
Speaker 4: to begin with, that you already thought to Panga set
Speaker 4: it up because you had been told by fans to
Speaker 4: set up Corey, so that when you heard the line,
Speaker 4: you're like, well, that's not actually what she said. But
Speaker 4: the end of the episode is her saying you failed
Speaker 4: my test.
Speaker 3: He said, he said. He says something like no, because
Speaker 3: you told me too. He says that he puts those
Speaker 3: words in her mouth, and she then doesn't say no,
Speaker 3: I didn't. She and yeah, you listened, which.
Speaker 2: Was lame by the writer's.
Speaker 3: Super lame and doesn't even doesn't correlate, like that's not
Speaker 3: that's no, not you listened. I didn't set you. I
Speaker 3: didn't give you a test. You're if I gave you
Speaker 3: a test, your test was failed the moment you let
Speaker 3: you stayed. So it wasn't a test about whether or
Speaker 3: not you were going to go on the day with her.
Speaker 3: It was about whether or not you were ready to say,
Speaker 3: I'm walking out of here with you. You're the only
Speaker 3: person I need to Panga, I don't need her. Let's
Speaker 3: get out of here together.
Speaker 2: That's what I think too.
Speaker 5: I think essentially to Panga was done with the relationship
Speaker 5: the second he didn't leave her. Correct, that's what I
Speaker 5: think too.
Speaker 4: And why did she say you listened?
Speaker 2: Because writers through under the bus.
Speaker 4: But that's that is the reality of the show. So
Speaker 4: we're not talking. I mean, I'm agree it.
Speaker 3: Wasn't wasn't a test. The setup wasn't a test.
Speaker 4: But the result is a test.
Speaker 3: Well, listen, she said, you listened to me. But I
Speaker 3: that could just be bad writing, bad bad writing. That's
Speaker 3: totally under But I.
Speaker 4: Mean, we could say it's bad writing, but that's the
Speaker 4: it was a trap. Like the intention of that is
Speaker 4: you listened. I mean, i I'm I'm I'm just saying
Speaker 4: like that is the storyline, right, You can say it's
Speaker 4: bad writing, but you're choosing which side of the equation
Speaker 4: you're going to.
Speaker 3: Wasn't set up. She did set up a trap. She
Speaker 3: didn't set up a trap at the end, Corey tried
Speaker 3: to say you you set up a trap, and Ta
Speaker 3: Penga didn't tell him she didn't, which she should have,
Speaker 3: but it doesn't It doesn't change the fact that she
Speaker 3: was never setting up a trap.
Speaker 1: He as someone who listened to hundreds of lips from listeners.
Speaker 1: If the decision was made at the time that she
Speaker 1: said you can stay with Lauren, like if she's saying
Speaker 1: you have to be one hundred percent with me, but
Speaker 1: then he stays with Lauren and she made her decision there,
Speaker 1: it can't physically be a trap because she's already made
Speaker 1: her decision, right.
Speaker 5: I also think the next episode went out of its way,
Speaker 5: or the episode after whenever it was, went out of
Speaker 5: its way to have to Panga say yes, trap trap,
Speaker 5: trap trap or whatever.
Speaker 4: Test test test, test, test, test test, the biggest test.
Speaker 5: The biggest yeah, because they wanted to make sure that
Speaker 5: everyone knew that at that point she's testing Corey, whereas
Speaker 5: I don't think the first.
Speaker 2: One, and again I think it does.
Speaker 5: They try. Here's what I would say. They tried to
Speaker 5: write it as if it were a trap the way
Speaker 5: that it was set up in Chubbies. It did not
Speaker 5: come off to me that Tapanga was trapping her, and
Speaker 5: if you just cut the line you listened, yes, it.
Speaker 3: Wouldn't been t The idea that Sean from the very
Speaker 3: beginning is picking up on exactly what Tapanga is saying,
Speaker 3: and he's saying, it's a trap. Go with her, Go
Speaker 3: with her right now, whatever happens here, go you You're
Speaker 3: the right thing to do is go with Tapanga. And
Speaker 3: Corey doesn't.
Speaker 4: So I know, but you guys are making it out
Speaker 4: that that I mean, I don't know. I'm not sure
Speaker 4: quite what you're defending. I guess if if if the
Speaker 4: idea is that there's a binary trap or no trap,
Speaker 4: then clear and you want to you want to say
Speaker 4: Topanga clearly did not intend it to be a trap.
Speaker 4: You're looking at the word and you're saying, yes, okay,
Speaker 4: and then we're just gonna ex we're just gonna take
Speaker 4: away that I listened, because that implies it isn't. But
Speaker 4: it's like, but actually, if you look at the whole thing,
Speaker 4: it's clearly not a binary. It's somewhat messy, it's signed
Speaker 4: in between, and I think Topega is smart enough to
Speaker 4: know it's kind of in between. So ultimately, like she's
Speaker 4: she's she's got her release valve, she's got her escape patch.
Speaker 4: It wasn't really a trap if you look at what
Speaker 4: I actually said. But that's manipulative to a degree, clearly.
Speaker 4: But she, oh, she's not super clear.
Speaker 3: It's so clear to me.
Speaker 4: If she was clear, she would say, walk out, if
Speaker 4: you're right now, if you need to.
Speaker 3: Go, do she doesn't want to give him an ultimatum.
Speaker 3: I don't. An ultimatum is also putting somebody in a situation. Wow,
Speaker 3: I'm going to put you in a situation where you
Speaker 3: have to decide it's me or her. No, why don't
Speaker 3: you figure out who you want to be with. I'm
Speaker 3: not going to force you into a situation. You either
Speaker 3: want to be with me or you don't want to
Speaker 3: be with me, And if you're not sure, then figure
Speaker 3: that out. But I don't want to be with somebody
Speaker 3: who isn't sure. So I'm leaving right now.
Speaker 4: And that's the part I leave, she leaves, she goes.
Speaker 3: Then you should go figure that out.
Speaker 4: I think, And I think she could be very clear,
Speaker 4: and I think it could you could be very clear
Speaker 4: without giving an ultimatum and just be like this is
Speaker 4: this is the situation we're in, which is not what happens.
Speaker 4: She she says, just the right wording, and then they'll
Speaker 4: and you listen. So therefore now I know you did.
Speaker 4: You failed the test. I still think it's it's I mean,
Speaker 4: my character says it's a trap. It is. It's a trap.
Speaker 3: And yet you pick up on exactly what it is
Speaker 3: that she's saying, which is you should know without a
Speaker 3: shadow of a doubt that I'm the person you want
Speaker 3: to be with. So this should be really easy for you.
Speaker 3: You should be one hundred percent sure, and if you're not,
Speaker 3: then stay and figure that out. But I cannot be
Speaker 3: with someone who needs to stay and figure it out. Bye,
Speaker 3: and she leaves, Well.
Speaker 4: So we have to add that extra sentence. That extra
Speaker 4: sentence is very good. That's not the line. That's not
Speaker 4: what depics on.
Speaker 3: She walks out. It's exactly what she says.
Speaker 5: I feel like we're not going to be I'm sorry,
Speaker 5: I feel like we're not going to be this in
Speaker 5: depth and philosophical.
Speaker 2: When it comes to why Eric's in the couch, well.
Speaker 5: I just don't think it's going to get at It's
Speaker 5: going to get the same amount of response, right.
Speaker 1: Well, it doesn't sound like we're going in any new direction.
Speaker 1: So let's go to the audience again. Worth noting we
Speaker 1: received hundreds of emails with voice memos. This time we
Speaker 1: had a quicker turnaround deadline also, so people got really
Speaker 1: into these with notes and all sorts of things. I
Speaker 1: think we basically found our subruer film. Do you guys
Speaker 1: want to hear a trap or a non trap?
Speaker 2: First surprise us?
Speaker 3: Yep?
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, let's listen to Hillary. Hillary believes it
Speaker 1: is a trap.
Speaker 3: Of course it's a trap.
Speaker 6: That's why Sean calls it a trap right from Jump Street.
Speaker 6: That's why there is a runner about what girls really mean.
Speaker 6: It wasn't even Corey's idea to stay and talk to Lauren.
Speaker 6: That's why he says to Panga told him to go
Speaker 6: out with her, and that's why she says, and you listened, Panga,
Speaker 6: being clear, would have been saying, talk to her and
Speaker 6: we're done, stay here and we're breaking up. But then
Speaker 6: the episode would have no stakes. Telling Corey to talk
Speaker 6: to Lauren if he needs to, that she couldn't be
Speaker 6: with him if he's unsure, is to say, I don't
Speaker 6: want us to be together. If you have doubts or
Speaker 6: wondering if you're still thinking of her, So go find
Speaker 6: out if you're sure, and he does, he listens one
Speaker 6: hundred percent a trap there.
Speaker 3: I agree with that one sentence of I could not
Speaker 3: be with someone who is unsure, but that is answered
Speaker 3: the minute he doesn't leave with her. Topeka's shocked. This
Speaker 3: is even still a consideration. Oh, this woman felt so
Speaker 3: strongly about you. She had to come here for four hours.
Speaker 3: She had to come here four hours to see if
Speaker 3: there's something else. If you feel the same way, Bud,
Speaker 3: we've got a bigger problem.
Speaker 4: But it's either a test in the moment then or
Speaker 4: a test later. And the fact that it's a test
Speaker 4: later it means that the whole thing was a trap,
Speaker 4: right like because Tobenga could be very clear in that moment,
Speaker 4: and it doesn't have to be an ultimatum. She could
Speaker 4: just say I'm leaving, I'm breaking up with you, I'm
Speaker 4: walking out of here. Right She can be the proactive
Speaker 4: one saying I don't want to be with you because
Speaker 4: you are one hundred percent not sure.
Speaker 3: But she doesn't know if he's unsure what she heard
Speaker 3: him say, I don't want to know. She's saying, here's
Speaker 3: your moment. Are you sure or are you not one
Speaker 3: hundred percent sure? Because if you're not one hundred percent sure,
Speaker 3: I couldn't be with you anymore.
Speaker 4: And so then she leaves that that's like, but that's
Speaker 4: the kind of thing that she should say, but she
Speaker 4: doesn't say that, And she said that. He says, but
Speaker 4: if she said that, what would Corey do?
Speaker 3: I just he say, he stays to figure it out.
Speaker 3: That's the whole point.
Speaker 4: If she said the sentence that you just said, I
Speaker 4: think he would have said, Okay, yeah, obviously I'm going
Speaker 4: with you to Panka.
Speaker 3: Then what was the point of the arc? The whole
Speaker 3: point of him meeting her was, I can't believe I
Speaker 3: want to talk to this woman who is in Topanga.
Speaker 3: I like her. I enjoyed spending all night with her.
Speaker 3: I could have gone on the ski slopes with Tapanga,
Speaker 3: and I didn't. I said my I lied and said
Speaker 3: my ankle still hurt, all because I had feelings for
Speaker 3: this other woman. Then she shows up to see if
Speaker 3: they need to pursue that, and Topenga goes, wow, she
Speaker 3: not so sure your story is over. If you're not
Speaker 3: sure your story is over, then you should figure that out.
Speaker 3: I could never be with someone who wasn't one hundred
Speaker 3: percent sure. And then she leaves him. Not leaving with
Speaker 3: her is him saying I'm not one hundred percent sure.
Speaker 1: Well, I think it's important. Note now I will give
Speaker 1: you not a trap person again. This says nothing about anything,
Speaker 1: but I will say that more people emailed that it
Speaker 1: was not a trap. Again, was not a competition, but
Speaker 1: at least it's worth knowing. And here's our first one.
Speaker 1: This is Barsha not a trap.
Speaker 7: It was clear that the writers couldn't have Corey be
Speaker 7: a villain or a bad guy, so they had to
Speaker 7: set the scene up as a trap that tippeninga places
Speaker 7: to draw us away from the fact that he literally
Speaker 7: cheated on her and then lied to her about it all. Yes,
Speaker 7: she does ask him to take the time to figure
Speaker 7: his feelings out, but that was because she didn't want
Speaker 7: to force or beg him to choose her. After all,
Speaker 7: they'd been in a relationship for years. To Penga left
Speaker 7: her family to be with him, and so the least
Speaker 7: a peg it deserved was that Corey would choose her.
Speaker 7: Onspot in Chubbies, but he had to question the whole
Speaker 7: relationship based on one night of talking to a random girl.
Speaker 7: She never had to question her feelings for him, so
Speaker 7: she was extremely clear that she wanted a guy who
Speaker 7: was one hundred percent sure about her as well, which
Speaker 7: he wasn't. So later when he did choose her and
Speaker 7: she said that she can't be in the relationship, it
Speaker 7: wasn't because she wanted to trap him, but because he
Speaker 7: had to weigh a long term relationship to a few
Speaker 7: hours old infatuation.
Speaker 4: That's it, But the irony is to Peggott does end
Speaker 4: up having to test her love for Corey by going
Speaker 4: out with another guy.
Speaker 2: We don't know that yet.
Speaker 4: That's not what I'm saying. Like, but the in the
Speaker 4: air she comes back says, I'm in love with Corey.
Speaker 3: Feelings not about feelings for Corey. Yes, because she tells Corey,
Speaker 3: I didn't understand how someone could kiss you and not
Speaker 3: have it mean anything. So she then went on a
Speaker 3: date with somebody who on paper has everything she could
Speaker 3: possibly want, a guy. He kisses her and she goes, Wow,
Speaker 3: it is possible to physically be intimate with somebody with
Speaker 3: a kiss and not have it mean anything. I now
Speaker 3: feel like I could understand Corey, how his Corey, how
Speaker 3: his kiss with Lauren didn't change anything in the way
Speaker 3: he felt about me. That's what she That's what she
Speaker 3: ends up realizing is Wow, you can actually physically be
Speaker 3: intimate with somebody, like having a kiss with someone, and
Speaker 3: have it truly not mean anything because he kissed me
Speaker 3: this perfect man on paper and I felt nothing.
Speaker 4: So how does that reflect on this moment?
Speaker 8: Then?
Speaker 4: Do you think for to think.
Speaker 3: On what moment?
Speaker 4: Well, she says I can't be with it. That she
Speaker 4: changes her idea. She changes her because because Corey. If
Speaker 4: if Corey says I'm not one hundred percent sure I
Speaker 4: need to go spend this day with Lauren, right, she
Speaker 4: ultimately forgives him for that, I mean to be with him,
Speaker 4: right because she also says, oh, you weren't one hundred
Speaker 4: percent sure, and I'm still in love with you, because
Speaker 4: you know, even if if like you're saying, it wasn't
Speaker 4: an experience, I had to go out. I just had
Speaker 4: to have the physical kiss either way. She comes around
Speaker 4: to say, to change her mind after this, right.
Speaker 3: Yes, which she shouldn't have, but she she does because
Speaker 3: she's decided that she's gonna over and over again, forgive
Speaker 3: him cheating on her. She's shown that, so I think
Speaker 3: for her it was more a matter of being able
Speaker 3: to have true empathy. For Oh, someone can kiss you
Speaker 3: and it really cannot mean anything. You could feel nothing,
Speaker 3: as opposed to them being worried that like, not only
Speaker 3: did you emotionally have a connection to this girl, you
Speaker 3: stayed up all night with and lied to me about
Speaker 3: you kissed her, and that would obviously have to mean something.
Speaker 3: It's a bit of a we talked about the way
Speaker 3: they wrote Toga. It's a little bit of like a
Speaker 3: changing of the situation because later she makes it all
Speaker 3: about the kiss when it wasn't really about the kiss.
Speaker 9: Well.
Speaker 5: They also they did something kind of interesting in that
Speaker 5: episode because they were trying to obviously mirror what happened
Speaker 5: in the ski lodge where she looks down is like,
Speaker 5: oh my god, I spent the whole day talking to
Speaker 5: you in an art museum.
Speaker 2: I didn't really.
Speaker 5: But the difference is Corey was struggling with the fact
Speaker 5: that he found somebody that he really connected with instantly
Speaker 5: and really liked. They never really got into that with
Speaker 5: Topenga and French Boy. It was just kind of like
Speaker 5: he's really cute.
Speaker 2: You should go out with him. It wasn't like, oh
Speaker 2: my god, I never had.
Speaker 3: Feelings for him. Interesting conversationalists.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it was where they really set it up with
Speaker 5: Corey where he was like, oh my god, I could
Speaker 5: have feelings for somebody other than Topanga, where Topenga is
Speaker 5: just like, well, I guess I'm here because Corey went
Speaker 5: out with somebody.
Speaker 4: I mean it was I mean she does, doesn't she
Speaker 4: have the man's playing moment at the painting and then
Speaker 4: drag Corey into test his phone.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, no, no, no, that was ridiculous, all the testing
Speaker 5: that was clearly a test and oh no, but I'm.
Speaker 4: Saying that it wasn't wasn't that her being affected by
Speaker 4: this guy, Like she was not a moment she was
Speaker 4: having a moment with a guy where she was like,
Speaker 4: I wish Corey, I would to do this it too.
Speaker 5: They set up an intimacy between Corey and Lauren that
Speaker 5: they never set up between Topanga and I literally don't
Speaker 5: even remember the character's name.
Speaker 3: Ricky.
Speaker 2: Ricky, right, Ricky, don't lose that number.
Speaker 1: Let's go back to a trap here. This is Anna.
Speaker 10: The amount of screaming I did while only listening to
Speaker 10: this podcast, this week's podcast, and last week's podcast, Oh
Speaker 10: my Goodness. For most of the part I was always
Speaker 10: on Will's side. I definitely agreed with his mindset, his opinions,
Speaker 10: and then this week's episode talking about the trap, I
Speaker 10: was definitely agreeing and understood right her side. I'm thirty
Speaker 10: years old. I've watched this show then and I've watched
Speaker 10: it now, and it's not until now that I've gotten
Speaker 10: older that it's like hearing that back was like, No, Tipega.
Speaker 3: Knew what she was doing.
Speaker 10: She knew what she was saying because she is portrayed
Speaker 10: as a very intelligent, very wise woman, and it just
Speaker 10: felt as she also knows Corey isn't there, so it
Speaker 10: fell and sounded like a trap. Oh so much to say,
Speaker 10: but yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, people have feelings. I do wonder too, like does
Speaker 1: this make it good television that so many people absolutely
Speaker 1: different ways?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 3: I mean, I think the only reason they threw her
Speaker 3: under the bus is to make it is to make
Speaker 3: it where neither one of them is technically wrong. But
Speaker 3: you can, you can fudget all you want, you can
Speaker 3: pretend the kiss is what really ultimately bothered to Panga
Speaker 3: the most. Corey can say you set a trap, and
Speaker 3: she can respond with some non non it doesn't make
Speaker 3: any sense. We can do all of that, but it
Speaker 3: was the way it was set up is the way
Speaker 3: it should have finished, and it was to me very clear,
Speaker 3: I am not going to force you into an ultimatum
Speaker 3: where I'm begging you to choose me. You should already
Speaker 3: know and anything after that moment is just them trying
Speaker 3: to make Corey not a villain and make Tapanga seem
Speaker 3: like she also understands how this could happen for Corey,
Speaker 3: but I don't feel I feel like it's completely inexcusable.
Speaker 1: Let's hear another non a trap. This is Marissa.
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 11: When I was younger, I felt torn off Tapanga was
Speaker 11: being sketchy with this quote trap. But as a grown
Speaker 11: up woman, I realized that Tapanga has been through more
Speaker 11: moments of infidelity with Corey than I have fingers. So
Speaker 11: whatever Tapanga needed to do for herself to get out
Speaker 11: of the cycle with Corey, I'm in support of.
Speaker 12: It was a.
Speaker 11: Strong moment seeing her walk out of Chubbies as a
Speaker 11: free woman. With that said, Topanga and Corey forever, I
Speaker 11: love this show and I will us.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean again, you you talked about it.
Speaker 5: It's a good TV I would instantly go when I
Speaker 5: think Corey and Topanga, you can you can make the
Speaker 5: correlation Ross and Rachel where it's like an iconic television
Speaker 5: couple that has mattered.
Speaker 2: People forget that Ross and Rachel were separated on the
Speaker 2: show for six seasons. Yeah, and that was some of
Speaker 2: the best TV they had. Was are they going to
Speaker 2: get back together? They're not going to get back together?
Speaker 2: What's going on?
Speaker 5: And they never did that with Corey and Topanga, And
Speaker 5: they missed so much opportunity with exactly that.
Speaker 1: It also became a verb when you were pitching TV shows, right,
Speaker 1: it was, Oh, we're going to do what are they
Speaker 1: going to? Are they not going?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, well there won't they?
Speaker 1: Well, there won't they?
Speaker 5: Right?
Speaker 1: It became their own form of sitcom.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and yeah, they missed a lot there. They certainly did.
Speaker 1: Uh, let's go to someone named Bess. Bess has a
Speaker 1: perspective that none of us have currently, that's for sure.
Speaker 10: Hi, this is Bess.
Speaker 12: I agree with Danielle that the writers did to Panga
Speaker 12: dirty mainly though this episode stirs up so much in me.
Speaker 12: I recently developed a crush on someone outside my marriage.
Speaker 12: I handled it different than Corey. I told my husband
Speaker 12: right away and we had a really beautiful conversation about
Speaker 12: trust and the nature of feelings, and now we're even
Speaker 12: more in love. So when Corey learned that he doesn't
Speaker 12: need to be afraid of his feelings for another girl,
Speaker 12: I thought that was really beautiful. The problem is Corey
Speaker 12: took action with Lauren when he could have just worked
Speaker 12: on himself and figured out the same thing. So no,
Speaker 12: I don't think it was a trap. I think Corey
Speaker 12: trapped himself. And to your point about the writers, it's
Speaker 12: funny that I've never felt so connected to the storyline
Speaker 12: as I do now in my thirties. Married. Anyway, Justice
Speaker 12: for Tapanga and I love this podcast so much.
Speaker 2: Justice Forega. That's great.
Speaker 3: Wow, that is great, And you know that like that idea.
Speaker 3: That to me is what has bothered me so much
Speaker 3: more about the Corey's infidelity is that moment where he
Speaker 3: he had the chance to say, my ankle's better, and
Speaker 3: I want you to stay off the slopes because I
Speaker 3: need to talk to you and to have could he
Speaker 3: heat Now, granted we're talking about teenagers.
Speaker 13: No, the problem is that the the the the criticism
Speaker 13: of us taking it so seriously, or of us having
Speaker 13: higher expectations for any of these characters Tapega included for Tapanga,
Speaker 13: for our even for our expectation for Tapega to.
Speaker 3: Go, listen, lady, make it clear. Are you given him
Speaker 3: an ultimatum or are you not? Are you testing him
Speaker 3: or are you not? That's a Those are big. Those
Speaker 3: are expectations you have of people, of married people, not
Speaker 3: of teenagers who aren't the best at communicating or or
Speaker 3: understanding their feelings and all of this. But yet the
Speaker 3: storyline is such an adult storyline it's hard to it's
Speaker 3: hard to keep that in perspective.
Speaker 2: Well, we've talked about that.
Speaker 5: We've talked about how the people a lot of people
Speaker 5: writing the show, and they were going through things like
Speaker 5: this in their life, and they were using these young
Speaker 5: characters to act out what was happening in their own world.
Speaker 5: So it became very adult very quickly. Yeah, that was
Speaker 5: That's an interesting way to look at it though.
Speaker 4: But I want to throw in another wrinkle here, which
Speaker 4: is something we talked about a little bit when when
Speaker 4: we covered the episode. I think this whole moment and
Speaker 4: all the sort of confusion around it is the confusion
Speaker 4: is increased by the fact that Linda Cardelini was not
Speaker 4: there for us to shoot this specific scene. Because if
Speaker 4: you can't do a wide shot to include Lauren in
Speaker 4: the scene, or even if she's on the other side
Speaker 4: of between seeing him watching to Panga leave and deciding
Speaker 4: to stay, you know, because you guys are isolated, almost
Speaker 4: feels like she's gone. Like in my mind, I was like,
Speaker 4: where are we? Is this later it's a commercial break
Speaker 4: or whatever it is. That jump is so awkward, And
Speaker 4: what that does is it makes it a Corey to
Speaker 4: Panga moment where it does seem like Topanga should just
Speaker 4: be more clear. But if she's in front of Lauren
Speaker 4: or Lauren.
Speaker 3: Could maybe hear her and Carey with physical body, Lauren
Speaker 3: Wiga leaves.
Speaker 4: And that also, for me makes a lot more sense
Speaker 4: of why Topanga wouldn't be like harsh or clear because
Speaker 4: she also was like, hey, hey, you're having a moment here,
Speaker 4: because that woman is listening to us talk right now,
Speaker 4: I'm not going to like be the freaked out psycho
Speaker 4: girlfriend who's all jealous, you know, And partly because she
Speaker 4: doesn't want to do that in front of it. You
Speaker 4: don't even give Lauren that the pleasure, you know, or whatever,
Speaker 4: just satisfaction. So she says, no, no, no, no, you do
Speaker 4: your thing. But because I'm I walked in on something,
Speaker 4: I'm walking out. And here's what me walking out means.
Speaker 4: I would have totally buy what you're saying. But I
Speaker 4: think because it feels like a personal private conversation, I'm
Speaker 4: a little like, screw you to Panga be clear if
Speaker 4: it was, but I don't know, so I think it was. Yeah,
Speaker 4: I don't know. I think that it really does come
Speaker 4: down to like the blocking and the right and in
Speaker 4: fact that she wasn't there.
Speaker 3: The visualization of who does Corey's body stay next to
Speaker 3: this scene with the three of them and Sean going,
Speaker 3: h dude, you gotta go with this, you gotta go
Speaker 3: with her, and Corey turning back to look at Lauren
Speaker 3: and choosing to stay would have been like a cringe,
Speaker 3: Oh my god, Like you're right that that her not
Speaker 3: then being there for that next scene or at the
Speaker 3: very least making that moment where Tapega is talking to
Speaker 3: Cory a wider shot.
Speaker 4: Yes, and just be like, oh, this is because then
Speaker 4: it's more in the moment still, and it's like Tapanga
Speaker 4: just being like you have yeah, an awkward and all
Speaker 4: the things that would make this whole situation.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 5: I also think there's something to be said for I
Speaker 5: wonder how much our thoughts would change either way if
Speaker 5: we knew it was actually in the letter, because I mean,
Speaker 5: you know, don't I mean, she just said it's intimate,
Speaker 5: but how intimate does it get I'm in love with you?
Speaker 4: I mean, you never know.
Speaker 2: It could completely have changed what we think one way
Speaker 2: or another.
Speaker 5: Chust Panga read it, everybody read it, but us so
Speaker 5: curious to know what was there.
Speaker 1: Here is Tara. She also in a position different than ours.
Speaker 4: Hi.
Speaker 8: There, this is Tara from Eastport, Maine. I'm actually a
Speaker 8: school counselor. So let me tell you if I was
Speaker 8: the school counselor at John Adams High School. Because let's
Speaker 8: be real, ms Collins was terrible at a job, I
Speaker 8: would be encouraging to Panga to say was she actually
Speaker 8: means to Corey? Because she totally trapped him. All she
Speaker 8: had to do was say I can't be with someone
Speaker 8: who's on one hundred percent sure about me and you
Speaker 8: are obviously conflicted, so I am out. But instead she
Speaker 8: made it seem like there was still a chance for
Speaker 8: them to stay together because she was letting Corey go
Speaker 8: figure out if he was one hundred percent sure about her.
Speaker 8: The whole exchange is so frustrating, and I totally blame
Speaker 8: the writers for this, and I agree with Danielle that
Speaker 8: the writers totally through Topanga under the bus. It's a
Speaker 8: total disservice to your character and it drives me bananas.
Speaker 2: It's always the school counselor.
Speaker 3: It's funny because Topanga doesn't know that Corey is conflicted.
Speaker 3: All Topega hears is I need you to go because
Speaker 3: I don't want her to see us together. That's what
Speaker 3: she hears. Yeah, you need to get out of here
Speaker 3: because Toga Topanga is coming and I don't want her
Speaker 3: to see us together. And Topega then is like, you know,
Speaker 3: you don't always get what you want or something you
Speaker 3: can't always That's like what she says, like, woo, can't
Speaker 3: always get what you want and that's why. Then to me,
Speaker 3: it's even more clear that Tapanga is saying, if you
Speaker 3: need to stay, then you should do that. But I'm out,
Speaker 3: and I don't know it is it's it is.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's muddled.
Speaker 4: They wanted to be muddled, so we have an episode
Speaker 4: they wanted to thirty years later, they were looking for
Speaker 4: a podcast episode and here it.
Speaker 3: Is, and here it is.
Speaker 2: We got it.
Speaker 5: Do you think there would be this much discussion over
Speaker 5: whether or not Corey cheated. There's a ton of discussion
Speaker 5: about what Tapanga did. But do you think we would
Speaker 5: have the same whether or not him kissing him and
Speaker 5: just staying up and talking all night. Do you think
Speaker 5: there would be that it would be as divided over
Speaker 5: did he cheat or did he not?
Speaker 3: I mean, what do you guys think? Do you think
Speaker 3: he did?
Speaker 12: Well?
Speaker 2: Yeah, what do you mean.
Speaker 5: Some people that say like, oh, well he you know
Speaker 5: she kissed him, You know, they were just.
Speaker 3: To the episode himself, right, I think at the moment.
Speaker 4: That she kissed him it was cheating. Well from that,
Speaker 4: it's the reaction to it, right, Like he could have
Speaker 4: just been like whoa, whoa, whoa, that's inappropriate, gone and
Speaker 4: told Tapanga like stay up all night talking to this girl.
Speaker 4: She kissed me. Wow, it went too far. What a mistake,
Speaker 4: and then it's over. But the fact that he lies
Speaker 4: and continues to the fact, you know that's the yeah.
Speaker 4: I mean, I do think that there is a version
Speaker 4: of Corey being someone innocent until the moment post the kiss,
Speaker 4: or at the moment of the kiss, because he could
Speaker 4: just put his hands up and stop it yet or.
Speaker 3: Couldn't do anything about it. He's irresistible to the ladies.
Speaker 1: Let's go to a lady in Australia. This is Sofia
Speaker 1: Hi from Australia.
Speaker 14: You guys, I just want to quickly start this by
Speaker 14: saying that I started watching Boy Me as Well at
Speaker 14: the age of forty one.
Speaker 3: I am now forty three.
Speaker 14: I have been the entire series about three or four
Speaker 14: times over. Love Love, Love the show and the podcast
Speaker 14: of course. Now, mister Panga, was it a trap? Hell No,
Speaker 14: it wasn't a damn trap.
Speaker 3: Please Okay.
Speaker 14: There could have been one word that changed which I
Speaker 14: felt was a little bit misleading, and it was when
Speaker 14: Tapanga says I couldn't be with someone. Had she had
Speaker 14: said I cannot be with someone, that would have been
Speaker 14: completely different. So I can see the misunderstanding with viewers.
Speaker 3: Anyway, I love you guys.
Speaker 14: Topanga was not wrongdition.
Speaker 2: Another relationship ended by grammar.
Speaker 1: The only one we got. That's not the only voice
Speaker 1: number we got about could not, I cannot it came up.
Speaker 4: It's a good call.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is a great call.
Speaker 1: I guess you guys didn't know what her opinion was,
Speaker 1: just so you remember it's this hell.
Speaker 3: No, it wasn't a damn trap.
Speaker 2: That is not what Admiral Akbar says during the Return
Speaker 2: of the Jedi. No, it's not a trap.
Speaker 5: Yeah, No, it's it's interesting to Yeah, but again that's
Speaker 5: what life is is Again, had Topanga come in and
Speaker 5: heard anything other.
Speaker 2: Than I don't want us to see us together?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 5: Like that shows how much words matter. One word here,
Speaker 5: one word there, The entire thing is different. So yeah,
Speaker 5: super interesting. Cannot and could not two different meanings.
Speaker 15: Mm hmm. Yeah.
Speaker 1: This year is Khalid from Egypt. He's got his own
Speaker 1: opinions falling somewhere in the middle.
Speaker 16: Hey, guys, I got a lot of thoughts, so I'm
Speaker 16: going to try to get through as quickly as possible. Basically,
Speaker 16: I don't think she set a trap. I think it's
Speaker 16: more failure on the writer's parts to honor Japang as
Speaker 16: a character. I agree completely that they threw her under
Speaker 16: the bus with the and you listened line, But I
Speaker 16: actually think it happened earlier, like her dialogue and that
Speaker 16: whole scene is so vague and open to interpretation, and
Speaker 16: I think a really terrible way, because as the show
Speaker 16: goes on, the importance of their relationship becomes the focus
Speaker 16: of the whole show to an almost psychotic degree. Frank,
Speaker 16: you know, we accept how important it is to them,
Speaker 16: and it becomes important to us. So it's such a
Speaker 16: betrayal to have Topanga be so vague and not explicitly
Speaker 16: say exactly what she means when the stakes are this high,
Speaker 16: Like it's just not in character. She's normally very articulate.
Speaker 16: And I think therein lies the sometimes tragic flaw of
Speaker 16: this great show because it asks you to take these
Speaker 16: characters seriously, requires you to pay attention, and then it
Speaker 16: punishes you for doing so, like it flattens them, changes them,
Speaker 16: you know, as a way to create melodrama. And I
Speaker 16: think that's what happened in this episode. So it was
Speaker 16: a bit of a trap setting up by Tapanga, but
Speaker 16: by the writers.
Speaker 4: I was really well put. Really the way the show
Speaker 4: punishes you for taking this seriously by flattening. Oh my gosh,
Speaker 4: it was really true, though.
Speaker 2: I mean, I know, I know.
Speaker 1: Well, here's Shannon with her own thoughts as well.
Speaker 17: Okay, my name is Shannon, and I fear that the
Speaker 17: word trap is becoming more meaningless the longer this debate. Yeah,
Speaker 17: in this context, as far as I'm concerned, is when
Speaker 17: one person manufactures a situation to see how the other
Speaker 17: person will react. If Tapanga had said me at Chubby's
Speaker 17: and then arranged for Lauren to be there to see
Speaker 17: what Corey did, that would be a trap. If she
Speaker 17: had read the letter first to them, pretended she hadn't,
Speaker 17: and asked Corey if he and Lauren kissed to see
Speaker 17: if he would lie, that would be a trap. You
Speaker 17: know who created this whole situation, Not to Panga, Corey.
Speaker 17: This whole plotline was driven by choices he made. So
Speaker 17: Tapanga is in a situation not of her own making,
Speaker 17: trying to communicate her feelings and needs. Did she communicate
Speaker 17: them exactly, perfectly and clearly? No, But she is also
Speaker 17: seventeen years old. When I was seventeen, do you know
Speaker 17: how I would break up with someone? I would literally
Speaker 17: just stop talking to them, like on this memo.
Speaker 4: I mean that's so true. No, I'm not big picture,
Speaker 4: big picture. I mean Corey's pretty awful, right, I mean, like,
Speaker 4: no think any of us are debating that it's not
Speaker 4: like Topanga is a bat like in any way Topega's
Speaker 4: actions are not equivalent to the crap, right, Like, there's
Speaker 4: no equivalent in my mind. Yeah, it's it's just and
Speaker 4: I do think that a trap probably is not a
Speaker 4: great term. It's more like test right, It's like it's
Speaker 4: more like just in a moment, and it's it's just
Speaker 4: that the writers wanted to have it both ways. Yeah,
Speaker 4: just they wanted to have it both ways. But I agree,
Speaker 4: like in general, to Panga's pretty blameless and really really
Speaker 4: should have gone with Ricky.
Speaker 3: But somebody else, somebody Y could have been a great
Speaker 3: little distraction. I would have loved to have seen t
Speaker 3: Pega's been a summer in Paris.
Speaker 1: Through Paris personally, someone who's never seen the show before,
Speaker 1: do you think that people thought that maybe to Panga
Speaker 1: would end up with Sean after the episode where she
Speaker 1: takes care of him when he's sick with Sean, Yes.
Speaker 4: No, because I think the whole point of that is, like,
Speaker 4: can we be you thought you think that would have
Speaker 4: been So I just feel like the show, it was
Speaker 4: so locked into the show that there was.
Speaker 1: Never once we get tasted it. I'm about me who
Speaker 1: has who has not seen the rest of the show.
Speaker 1: There was a part of me that watched that episode
Speaker 1: and thought, are they setting them up? Because Dawson's Creek
Speaker 1: We talked abou Dawson's Creek a lot, and and they
Speaker 1: did that sort of like Pacey and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: like there was some friendship talked there in different obviously,
Speaker 1: like a lot of shows.
Speaker 3: I think we had done. I think Boy Meets World
Speaker 3: had done so much work setting up the bromance between
Speaker 3: Corey and Sean. The funny thing is Sean would never
Speaker 3: cheat on Corey the way Corey cheats Ontoga. That's very
Speaker 3: true that it would never happen.
Speaker 4: So yeah, I feel like like in actual storytelling, bro
Speaker 4: code and you know, the homosocial love between Corey and
Speaker 4: Sean is way stronger correct, way clearly, more clearly like
Speaker 4: extrapolated and testiny relationship until basically now like now the
Speaker 4: love and romance it's like part of Corey's maturation to
Speaker 4: move from that. But in terms of like iron clad
Speaker 4: friendship testing like we've seen their relationship come through it all. Yeah,
Speaker 4: and there's almost no doubt every time. At the end
Speaker 4: of every episode with Corey and Shawn, you're like, well,
Speaker 4: these two are the best things for each other possible.
Speaker 18: Right.
Speaker 5: It's also kind of amazing when you talk about our
Speaker 5: writers though, because when you think about how little they
Speaker 5: actually use Tapanga up until what halfway through season five,
Speaker 5: and then in four or five episodes, all of a sudden,
Speaker 5: she's now the core of the show. It's now all
Speaker 5: Corey and Topanga. That switched really quick. Yeah, because we
Speaker 5: went episode after episode going like, well.
Speaker 4: Where the show are you?
Speaker 2: Like, what the hell is going on? And now all
Speaker 2: of a sudden, boom, most important part of the show.
Speaker 2: It happened like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Crazy, We're rounding now to the end. Here here's Leah.
Speaker 1: She does believe it's a trap.
Speaker 9: Hi, this is Lea from Pennsylvania.
Speaker 3: Love the Pod.
Speaker 9: I'm going to try real hard to fit this under
Speaker 9: one minute, because boy do I have a lot to say.
Speaker 9: I don't want to tell in that for the they
Speaker 9: are wrong about their character, but Danielle, you are wrong
Speaker 9: about to Panga.
Speaker 3: I may notes let me try to get through this.
Speaker 4: It was a trap.
Speaker 9: Corey cannot read minds. She knows he cannot read minds.
Speaker 9: She said that if he's not one hundred percent sure,
Speaker 9: then he should go and talk to Lauren. Now, if
Speaker 9: she knew that she was going to break up with him,
Speaker 9: if he talks to Lauren, she should have come out
Speaker 9: and explicitly said that, and she did not do that.
Speaker 9: So he goes to talk to Lauren and he becomes
Speaker 9: one hundred percent shore and he tells Topanga he is
Speaker 9: now one hundred percent short, but then she breaks up
Speaker 9: with him.
Speaker 3: That is a trap.
Speaker 9: However, the only thing I would say in to Panga's
Speaker 9: defense is that it would make sense if she broke
Speaker 9: up with him, because Tapanga never said to date Lauren,
Speaker 9: and he went on a date with Lauren.
Speaker 3: He went the ball in her jacket.
Speaker 4: It was a full blown.
Speaker 9: Date that might be going to breaking up. I am done,
Speaker 9: Thank you have a good one.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's actually an easy fixed.
Speaker 1: Gave us a couple of times. He glis right.
Speaker 4: If the difference is to Panga expects him to just
Speaker 4: sit at Chubby's and talk to her for a couple
Speaker 4: of minutes, and instead it takes him a day and
Speaker 4: a half and he goes on this whole that is
Speaker 4: that is you know, And that's an easy thing that
Speaker 4: she could have said in that final scene. It's like, Yeah,
Speaker 4: I thought you needed to like talk to her. I
Speaker 4: didn't realize it to go on a date with her
Speaker 4: and beat you or whatever and.
Speaker 3: Talk about whether or not you want the same type
Speaker 3: of house and how many kids you want to have.
Speaker 1: Yea god, Well, let's wrap it up with Casey, who
Speaker 1: gives us a good feeling that you know, maybe it's
Speaker 1: not necessarily that important to figure out if it is
Speaker 1: or not.
Speaker 18: Hey guys, my name is Casey. I love the pod,
Speaker 18: but not as much as I loved Writer when I
Speaker 18: was in elementary school.
Speaker 6: But that's another story.
Speaker 18: So I actually don't think it matters if Topanga said
Speaker 18: a trap or not. Regardless of what her intention was
Speaker 18: when she told Corey to explore his feelings, she's allowed
Speaker 18: to sit on it and reflect and decide that she's
Speaker 18: been too hurt and it's over. Let's not forget that
Speaker 18: this isn't the first time Corey has done something like this.
Speaker 2: There you go, Yeah, let's shoot, it's another good take.
Speaker 3: You're right, doesn't matter. I can change my mind, but
Speaker 3: it is for me, the big, the big moment that
Speaker 3: sucks is and you.
Speaker 5: I was just about to say, those three words changed
Speaker 5: the entire thing.
Speaker 2: And it's those three words.
Speaker 4: Because the point of those words is that that the end,
Speaker 4: that it's a tragedy that Corey has walked into.
Speaker 3: How dare you take my bait?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 10: Yeah?
Speaker 5: Yeah, I handed you this knife and you and told
Speaker 5: you to plunge it in your heart and you did.
Speaker 3: And you did it and yeah, I know, but it
Speaker 3: was but it's so so soap opera.
Speaker 2: No, no, you do this shit happened.
Speaker 1: We have some of the smartest and most thoughtful listeners
Speaker 1: we did oh yeah, all the I picked some of
Speaker 1: the best ones, but really literally all the clips felt
Speaker 1: like it had that much research involved and that much
Speaker 1: actual feelings. And so we appreciate you guys sending in
Speaker 1: your voice memos and we will continue to do this
Speaker 1: when there's sort of big topics that we want to tackle.
Speaker 3: Right, yes, hot button issues. Yes, Well, thank you all
Speaker 3: for joining us for this episode of Pod Meets World.
Speaker 3: As always, you can follow us on Instagram pod Meets
Speaker 3: World Show. You can send us your emails Podmeets World
Speaker 3: Show at gmail dot com, and we have merch it's a.
Speaker 2: Trap or it's not a trap, or just blow up
Speaker 2: the dusk.
Speaker 3: Star Podmeetsworldshow dot com will send us out.
Speaker 2: We love you all.
Speaker 4: POD dismissed.
Speaker 3: Hell No, it wasn't a damn trap.
Speaker 18: Please.
Speaker 5: Podmets World is Niheart podcast producer and hosted by Danielle Fischel,
Speaker 5: Wilfredell and Ryder Strong executive producers, Jensen Carp and Amy Sugarman,
Speaker 5: Executive in charge of production, Danielle Romo, producer and editor,
Speaker 5: Tara Sudbaksh producer, Maddie Moore, engineer and Boy Meets World
Speaker 5: super fan Easton Allen. Our theme song is by Kyle
Speaker 5: Morton of Typhoon and you can follow us on Instagram
Speaker 5: at Podmeets World Show or email us at Podmets Worldshow
Speaker 5: at gmail dot com