WEBVTT - CZM Rewind: Discussing Palestine and Israel w/ Deevee Kashi 0:00:01.720 --> 0:00:02.880 Also media. 0:00:03.720 --> 0:00:07.840 Hello, you are about to listen to a rewind episode. 0:00:08.320 --> 0:00:11.000 And it's not that much of a rewind. It's pretty 0:00:11.160 --> 0:00:13.880 recent as far as history goes. But I just really 0:00:14.320 --> 0:00:17.200 love this episode. I'm really proud of it. I'm really 0:00:17.239 --> 0:00:21.040 grateful to have met our guest to Hob Kashi. He 0:00:21.880 --> 0:00:23.640 just has insight that I think a lot of people 0:00:23.680 --> 0:00:27.880 need to hear, especially as a Israeli American right now. 0:00:28.760 --> 0:00:32.720 And yeah, I just find his voice very valuable and 0:00:33.159 --> 0:00:42.760 it's worth a re listen. So here it is. Hello, everybody, 0:00:42.880 --> 0:00:45.800 welcome to it could happen here. This is Sharene and 0:00:45.960 --> 0:00:49.840 I am so happy to be joined by my guest today. 0:00:50.159 --> 0:00:52.040 I've been so excited to speak to him. I am 0:00:52.120 --> 0:00:55.880 joined by dB Kashi. He is a pro policy and 0:00:55.960 --> 0:00:59.520 activist from New York and Israel, and there's just a 0:00:59.560 --> 0:01:01.040 lot of stuff I want to talk to you about. 0:01:01.080 --> 0:01:03.760 So welcome, pleasure to be here. Great to meet you, Sharen. 0:01:04.240 --> 0:01:06.480 I want to start with just some background for the 0:01:06.520 --> 0:01:08.280 audience to just like kind of get to know where 0:01:08.319 --> 0:01:11.360 the perspective you're speaking from. Can you tell me a 0:01:11.440 --> 0:01:13.759 little bit about your family history and where you grew 0:01:13.840 --> 0:01:15.560 up and where your parents are from. And all of that. 0:01:16.200 --> 0:01:22.320 Sure, my parents were both born in Israel, and they, 0:01:22.640 --> 0:01:25.399 like many Israelis, moved to New York City in the 0:01:25.640 --> 0:01:31.880 eighties and had myself and my two siblings, And as 0:01:32.120 --> 0:01:35.920 my grandparents were getting older, to whom we were very close, 0:01:37.160 --> 0:01:41.959 my mom decided to move back to Tel Aviv when 0:01:42.000 --> 0:01:46.160 I was in two thousand, so right before the Second Intifada. 0:01:46.800 --> 0:01:52.080 And so when I was thirteen eighth grade, I moved 0:01:52.080 --> 0:01:55.080 to Tel Aviv for the first time. And you know, 0:01:55.080 --> 0:01:58.240 obviously I was very familiar with it, like visit every summer, 0:01:59.760 --> 0:02:04.080 and you know, grew up in our grandparents' house, both 0:02:04.080 --> 0:02:09.959 of whom were Iraqi Jews who immigrated to Israel in 0:02:10.000 --> 0:02:13.840 the early fifties. And so yeah, so when I moved 0:02:13.840 --> 0:02:19.560 there in eighth grade, I was completely pretty much a 0:02:19.680 --> 0:02:22.640 shock in terms of what I was used to in 0:02:22.639 --> 0:02:26.480 New York. Obviously, I had friends from many different walks 0:02:26.480 --> 0:02:30.239 of life, many different backgrounds here. I was very used 0:02:30.280 --> 0:02:32.360 to that, right, I didn't grew up in you know, 0:02:32.560 --> 0:02:36.120 a very staunch Jewish community. I had Jewish friends, but 0:02:36.840 --> 0:02:41.160 I didn't solely have Jewish friends. And so that's what 0:02:41.240 --> 0:02:44.200 I loved, That's what I embraced, but when I moved 0:02:44.200 --> 0:02:48.120 to Israel, it was very jarring. You know, I had 0:02:48.160 --> 0:02:51.320 studied in Hebrew for the first time, and you know, 0:02:51.480 --> 0:02:56.480 everything that we studied in school was pertaining to the 0:02:56.600 --> 0:03:01.640 Jewish identity. So every kind of history class, you know, 0:03:01.680 --> 0:03:04.120 you'd study about the Roman Empire and the Jewish people. 0:03:04.200 --> 0:03:06.560 You'd study about, you know, ancient Greece and the Jewish people. 0:03:06.600 --> 0:03:11.480 And that's okay to learn about Jewish identity, but intertwining 0:03:11.520 --> 0:03:16.320 it with every aspect of the school curriculum and really 0:03:16.360 --> 0:03:20.120 thinking about the persecure really kind of hammering home this 0:03:20.320 --> 0:03:26.200 notion of persecution, really kind of understanding how you know, 0:03:26.440 --> 0:03:30.560 And again, I think it's important to understand your history 0:03:31.400 --> 0:03:34.680 and history in general, but I think that kind of 0:03:34.720 --> 0:03:40.520 introducing this notion of persecution as a tactic to retraumatize 0:03:40.560 --> 0:03:45.720 people that aren't directly experiencing the trauma. Right, So everyone 0:03:45.760 --> 0:03:48.520 in the world learns about the Holocaust, but did you 0:03:48.600 --> 0:03:51.960 know that in Israel, Holocaust Remembrance Day isn't on the 0:03:52.000 --> 0:03:54.840 same day as the rest of the world's Holocaust Remembrance 0:03:54.920 --> 0:03:58.400 Day because they want to own their own kind of 0:03:58.800 --> 0:04:02.720 version of the Holocaust Remembrance Day. Right. And so you know, 0:04:02.800 --> 0:04:05.880 when you think about the Holocaust, you think about other holocausts, 0:04:06.120 --> 0:04:10.240 other genocides that have happened, and Israel's failure to recognize 0:04:10.280 --> 0:04:14.400 those genocides, like the Armenian genocide, right, and the fact 0:04:14.400 --> 0:04:16.960 that you know, many people don't know, but you know, 0:04:17.040 --> 0:04:22.080 throughout history Israel has armed genocidal forces with Israeli made 0:04:22.080 --> 0:04:29.760 weapons to you know, support imperialist motives and colonialist powers 0:04:29.800 --> 0:04:32.560 around the world. So you know, even even now with 0:04:33.120 --> 0:04:37.400 what's happening in Armenia with the Iserbaijani's right, Israel is 0:04:37.440 --> 0:04:40.599 on the wrong side of that equation, right, And so 0:04:41.240 --> 0:04:45.359 it's never been about standing with the side of the 0:04:45.440 --> 0:04:51.320 oppressed for Israel, It's never been about, you know, ensuring 0:04:51.480 --> 0:04:55.359 that what happens when they say never again, actually never again, 0:04:55.760 --> 0:04:58.839 never happens again to anyone around the world. Right. Think 0:04:58.880 --> 0:05:04.479 about their policy is the racist policies around refugees, right. 0:05:05.520 --> 0:05:09.159 I think people don't understand, right. I have a very 0:05:09.240 --> 0:05:14.479 unique perspective because I understand kind of the minds of 0:05:14.520 --> 0:05:18.800 the colonizers. I can humanize the colonizers. I think there's 0:05:18.839 --> 0:05:22.960 a dangerous kind of maybe thinking about things from a 0:05:23.000 --> 0:05:25.080 bit of a different angle than kind of people are 0:05:25.160 --> 0:05:27.719 used to, and also bringing it back to the events 0:05:27.720 --> 0:05:30.000 of the last ten days or eleven days at this point, 0:05:30.680 --> 0:05:33.520 I think, you know, I've always kind of looked at 0:05:33.800 --> 0:05:38.039 and identified with the Palestinian struggle, right, And I've always 0:05:38.080 --> 0:05:43.720 seen it as human rights struggle, right, and you know, 0:05:43.880 --> 0:05:49.200 as such, and as many well regarded activists and thinkers 0:05:49.240 --> 0:05:53.920 and intellectuals have always talked about the unification of all 0:05:54.000 --> 0:05:57.600 the struggles of the oppress, and that's always always arrived 0:05:57.680 --> 0:06:02.000 at the identification with this struggle for the Palestinian people. 0:06:02.240 --> 0:06:06.640 I've also felt, you know, by virtue of this se 0:06:07.000 --> 0:06:12.000 this imposed identity of you know, Israeli, I've always felt 0:06:12.320 --> 0:06:16.080 directly responsible for the oppression of the Palestinian people, even 0:06:16.120 --> 0:06:21.200 though I've never done anything myself to champion or perpetuate 0:06:21.279 --> 0:06:24.200 that oppression. I've always worked against it from a very 0:06:24.279 --> 0:06:28.200 very young age. Now people always ask me, you know, 0:06:28.680 --> 0:06:31.839 kind of annoying questions like, you know, why do you 0:06:31.880 --> 0:06:34.400 care so much about the Palestinians when so many people 0:06:34.400 --> 0:06:36.560 in the world are suffering. And the answer to that 0:06:36.640 --> 0:06:41.039 question is I care about all suffering. But this is 0:06:41.080 --> 0:06:44.680 something that the government that supposedly represents me, that the 0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:50.120 entity that supposedly represents me is directly perpetrating and frankly, 0:06:50.720 --> 0:06:53.200 after going to many protests in New York and in 0:06:53.440 --> 0:06:58.400 Israel itself, I've realized that this is the most important 0:06:58.480 --> 0:07:02.880 human rights struggle of our generation for sure, but of 0:07:02.960 --> 0:07:08.480 modern times because it stands for all of it's essentially 0:07:08.560 --> 0:07:13.000 the last beacon of direct colonialism. Right. We all know 0:07:13.120 --> 0:07:16.240 how kind of neocolonialism works. I mean, maybe we do 0:07:16.280 --> 0:07:20.080 when we don't, but neo colonialism, through you know, different 0:07:20.960 --> 0:07:27.520 coupitalist structures, right, America has been able to perpetrate neocolonialism 0:07:27.680 --> 0:07:33.400 without actually having to occupy other people, you know, save 0:07:33.520 --> 0:07:36.680 for Iraq for almost twenty years, but or fifteen years 0:07:36.720 --> 0:07:41.280 or whatever, it was a very long time. But Israel 0:07:41.520 --> 0:07:46.000 is directly and physically occupying in other people, and they 0:07:46.040 --> 0:07:49.040 have been for the last seventy five years, right officially 0:07:49.120 --> 0:07:54.240 for the last seventy five years. And that's been a constant, Right, 0:07:54.400 --> 0:07:59.280 It's not, hey, you know, here's a country and let's 0:07:59.400 --> 0:08:02.680 you know fight, let's continue our kind of battle in 0:08:02.720 --> 0:08:05.760 that way. It's been it's always been. If you're a 0:08:05.840 --> 0:08:10.600 scholar of Israeli history of Zionist history, you always you 0:08:10.680 --> 0:08:14.640 start understanding that the goal was to take over all 0:08:14.680 --> 0:08:17.440 of Judaea and Samara, right, And that's kind of how 0:08:17.480 --> 0:08:21.840 the settler government that Netanyahu has in power has been 0:08:21.880 --> 0:08:27.520 speaking for years. Right. I'm really upset and really kind 0:08:27.520 --> 0:08:32.000 of frustrated by the way that the Western media has 0:08:32.040 --> 0:08:35.600 been portraying what's happening over the last eleven days, because 0:08:35.880 --> 0:08:39.160 even Israeli media Halitz, which is an Israeli newspaper, which 0:08:39.200 --> 0:08:42.640 is very prominent one right, isn't portraying it the way 0:08:42.720 --> 0:08:46.679 that the Western media is portraying it. Right, they're criticizing 0:08:46.800 --> 0:08:50.880 the Netanyahu. There's so many people in Israel that are scared, right, 0:08:51.200 --> 0:08:54.240 All the leftists are scared. They're being persecuted. They're signal 0:08:54.240 --> 0:08:58.720 groups doxing friends of mine, people literally fighting for human rights. 0:08:58.760 --> 0:09:05.520 They're doxing them. Israelfrai, he's an Orthodox reporter that's been 0:09:05.559 --> 0:09:09.319 staunchly pro Palestinian and he's a very prominent member of 0:09:09.400 --> 0:09:13.719 the press. Angry mob of right wing extremists try to 0:09:13.800 --> 0:09:15.839 knock down his door the other day and he had 0:09:15.880 --> 0:09:19.040 to escape from the back door and run away. So 0:09:19.080 --> 0:09:22.480 they don't, you know, potentially kill him, right, and so 0:09:22.600 --> 0:09:25.240 these voices are being silenced in Israel. No one is 0:09:25.280 --> 0:09:27.880 talking about that. Everyone in the West is beating the 0:09:27.920 --> 0:09:30.959 drums of war. The media is supporting that. We've seen 0:09:31.320 --> 0:09:35.040 on the kind of a micro but tragic level, what 0:09:35.160 --> 0:09:38.160 happened to that six year old kid that was stobbed 0:09:38.160 --> 0:09:41.439 to death by someone just because of the anti Islamic, 0:09:41.480 --> 0:09:45.480 anti Palestinian rhetoric that's being perpetrated, And so everyone's kind 0:09:45.480 --> 0:09:48.720 of losing their shit as all of a sudden, everyone's 0:09:48.760 --> 0:09:52.080 saying the same thing because everyone is being pushed to 0:09:52.360 --> 0:09:56.400 justify this war. But people are starting to wake up, right, 0:09:56.480 --> 0:10:00.199 the UN's woken up and very very slowly start to 0:10:00.200 --> 0:10:03.480 wake up because they're seeing that genocide is actually being 0:10:03.480 --> 0:10:06.760 committed and so you can't throw your full weight behind genocide. 0:10:06.880 --> 0:10:09.720 But they're walking it back too slowly. And the people 0:10:09.880 --> 0:10:13.760 that I'm disappointed by are people that are supposedly smart, 0:10:13.960 --> 0:10:19.480 spewing complete nonsense rhetoric about two sides. Right. I struggled, Right, 0:10:19.559 --> 0:10:21.960 this is important. I struggled. I know people who were 0:10:22.040 --> 0:10:26.040 killed in the Hamas attack personally and intimately know them. Right. 0:10:26.800 --> 0:10:29.079 You know, my ex girlfriend's best friend was killed. Right, 0:10:29.120 --> 0:10:32.599 She's We've hung out many, many, many times. She was 0:10:32.640 --> 0:10:37.239 a very sweet, very kind person. We know an activist 0:10:37.720 --> 0:10:41.000 who was literally because people don't understand. And this is 0:10:41.000 --> 0:10:44.679 for a lot of the kind of pro Palestinians that 0:10:44.200 --> 0:10:47.600 that that And I completely empathize, and I understand why 0:10:47.679 --> 0:10:50.680 people believe what they believe. Believe me, but this is 0:10:50.720 --> 0:10:53.520 for a lot of the pro Palestinians that you know 0:10:53.640 --> 0:10:56.839 immediately called all of them settlers, right, And I think 0:10:56.840 --> 0:10:59.160 it's important to distinguish because if there's ever going to 0:10:59.160 --> 0:11:02.520 be a path forward this mess, we have to offer 0:11:02.720 --> 0:11:09.880 a new rhetoric that deconstructs the nationalist ideologies. Okay, I 0:11:09.960 --> 0:11:13.680 don't put the Palestinian flag or say free Palestine, which 0:11:13.720 --> 0:11:17.280 I do as a nationalist ideology. I say that as 0:11:17.280 --> 0:11:22.880 a deconstruction of nationalism, as as a call to freedom 0:11:23.080 --> 0:11:28.040 for all, right, though oppressed as well as the oppressor. Right. 0:11:28.240 --> 0:11:32.800 If you actually read everyone's quoting, everyone's quoting Phenonen, right, 0:11:33.080 --> 0:11:36.520 everyone's quoting all these revolutionaries, if you actually read the 0:11:36.559 --> 0:11:39.760 material that they said. Chae Gavari even said the true 0:11:39.760 --> 0:11:43.320 revolutionary is guided by deep with deep feelings of love 0:11:43.440 --> 0:11:45.640 in their heart, and he said this at the risk 0:11:45.720 --> 0:11:50.760 of sounding absurd. He said that direct quote the people 0:11:51.280 --> 0:11:54.200 perpetuating in Israel. I can say this from a first 0:11:54.200 --> 0:11:57.600 hand account. I know very good people that are guided 0:11:57.640 --> 0:12:03.440 by nationalist and fascist idea. However, they've been manipulated, They've 0:12:03.440 --> 0:12:07.000 been lied to, They've they're fed propaganda twenty four to 0:12:07.000 --> 0:12:10.640 seven through the news and the sentiment in Israel right now, 0:12:10.640 --> 0:12:14.200 and I can tell you this, I'm getting messages from people. 0:12:14.679 --> 0:12:17.880 They think everyone is trying to kill Jews. That's what 0:12:17.920 --> 0:12:20.440 they believe, That's what they've been told. They think this 0:12:20.480 --> 0:12:23.080 is armageddon for the Jewish people. That's what the media 0:12:23.160 --> 0:12:27.200 narrative is in Israel. Okay, in spite of the fact 0:12:27.240 --> 0:12:30.000 that there are many people that are against what's happening, 0:12:30.040 --> 0:12:33.200 there are many people that directly blame Netanyahu for this, 0:12:33.640 --> 0:12:36.199 but they're being scared to believe that they're being going 0:12:36.200 --> 0:12:38.360 to be attacked on all fronts, and they have to 0:12:38.360 --> 0:12:42.319 do everything they can to neutralize your threats. Okay, that 0:12:43.160 --> 0:12:46.600 is the survival kind of That is a fact. Does 0:12:46.640 --> 0:12:48.920 that mean that every single person in Israel is a 0:12:49.000 --> 0:12:51.559 terrible human being as evil as some people say, No, 0:12:51.679 --> 0:12:55.480 that is not true at all. Right. And my point is, 0:12:55.640 --> 0:12:58.240 and what a lot of the revolutionaries said, right. Palo 0:12:58.320 --> 0:13:02.120 Freer in the Pedagogy the Oppressed said, in the process 0:13:02.160 --> 0:13:07.000 of dehumanization, the oppressor dehumanizes himself. Putting that aside, though, 0:13:07.600 --> 0:13:10.599 I think that you know, for me, I see I 0:13:11.120 --> 0:13:13.720 know people that died, it was very difficult for me 0:13:13.760 --> 0:13:15.920 the post in the first two days. I think there 0:13:15.960 --> 0:13:21.560 were some problematic justifications for the massacre that didn't sit 0:13:21.600 --> 0:13:24.360 well with me because I'm a humanist. But in the 0:13:24.360 --> 0:13:29.360 same token, right, I think that I understand the context. 0:13:29.679 --> 0:13:34.400 I think it behooves us to understand the context. Right. 0:13:34.880 --> 0:13:36.880 There's a really famous quote. I forget who said it, 0:13:36.920 --> 0:13:43.200 but if you started the clock or started looking at 0:13:43.440 --> 0:13:46.080 kind of the colonization in America from when the Native 0:13:46.080 --> 0:13:49.160 Americans started shooting the arrows, you think that the Native 0:13:49.160 --> 0:13:52.800 Americans were the aggressives. Right. If you started looking at, 0:13:52.880 --> 0:13:57.360 you know, the colonization of Algeria, when the Alga when 0:13:57.360 --> 0:14:01.199 the local population started rebelling, you think that they were 0:14:01.240 --> 0:14:05.160 the aggressives. Right. And that's not to say in the 0:14:05.240 --> 0:14:09.520 same breath that terrible things happen to amazing people there. Right, 0:14:09.800 --> 0:14:12.000 What people don't know and a lot of the Propolst 0:14:12.520 --> 0:14:15.440 movement doesn't know is that many of the people living 0:14:15.440 --> 0:14:19.640 in the area on Gazas are actually activists, like very 0:14:19.800 --> 0:14:25.320 anti zionists, activists right that many of the testimonies of 0:14:25.400 --> 0:14:28.560 the families of the of those activists are saying to 0:14:28.720 --> 0:14:32.920 stop the genocide, that it's not going to bring back 0:14:33.000 --> 0:14:36.680 their friends, their family members. Those are the people that 0:14:36.760 --> 0:14:39.600 were a lot of whom were killed in the attacks, 0:14:39.880 --> 0:14:41.960 because that's where they live, they work with, you know, 0:14:42.800 --> 0:14:48.920 organizations at Gaza like acknowledge that, right, understand the complexity saying, hey, 0:14:48.960 --> 0:14:52.040 you guys are all settlers. That's just dumb. It's not 0:14:52.880 --> 0:14:56.040 factually true. Their grandparents were, their great grandparents were one 0:14:56.120 --> 0:15:00.960 hundred percent. But now their generations and generations of people, right, 0:15:01.160 --> 0:15:04.160 just like in America, their generations and generations of people 0:15:04.880 --> 0:15:07.800 that descended, Are they to be held accountable for the 0:15:07.840 --> 0:15:11.480 actions of their ancestors. Doesn't make any sense. They should 0:15:11.480 --> 0:15:14.520 be held accountable for actions that they take now for sure, right, 0:15:14.840 --> 0:15:18.320 holding your government accountable, you know, thinking about an actual 0:15:18.400 --> 0:15:23.480 solution to this terrible situation that one hundred percent people 0:15:23.480 --> 0:15:26.280 should be held accountable for. But to call them settlers 0:15:26.320 --> 0:15:29.520 as a justification for their deaths is something that I 0:15:29.560 --> 0:15:32.320 will never do, right, and I don't think it helps 0:15:32.640 --> 0:15:35.760 the struggle, right. I think it's important to say, and 0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:39.560 then simultaneously also say, did you guys know that Israel 0:15:39.920 --> 0:15:44.040 played a very major role in establishing the commas? Like 0:15:44.320 --> 0:15:48.520 don't be stupid, open a history books, see what happened, right, Understand, 0:15:48.600 --> 0:15:51.200 don't just be quick to call and quick to say 0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:54.000 both sides. It's not a both side situation. Even though 0:15:54.000 --> 0:15:56.800 the aggression was terrible, those are those two things can 0:15:56.840 --> 0:16:01.560 be true. It's a devastating, tragic event, right, and I 0:16:01.600 --> 0:16:03.800 know many great people that were killed in it, But 0:16:04.000 --> 0:16:06.840 in the same breath, we have to remember what caused it. 0:16:07.160 --> 0:16:07.360 Yeah. 0:16:07.400 --> 0:16:11.680 Context is everything, right, Context is everything. Israel funded the Kamas. 0:16:11.960 --> 0:16:15.920 Bibi has direct quotes in Israeli newspapers saying we have 0:16:16.040 --> 0:16:20.200 to fund the Kamas in order for is Palestinians never 0:16:20.320 --> 0:16:23.080 to have a state. He directly said that how do 0:16:23.080 --> 0:16:26.240 you guys ignore these statements? They've been very Bibi has 0:16:26.280 --> 0:16:29.120 been very clear as to what is going to happen 0:16:29.160 --> 0:16:31.320 and what he's trying to accomplish. And then on top 0:16:31.360 --> 0:16:35.880 of that, to compound things, the settlers in his government 0:16:35.920 --> 0:16:40.920 right now isamal Bengvil and Smotrich are two settlers. They 0:16:40.960 --> 0:16:43.800 literally are settlers, like in according to the national law, 0:16:43.880 --> 0:16:49.160 they're considered settlers, okay, illegal settlers. And there the second 0:16:49.200 --> 0:16:52.880 and third most powerful people in Israel. Okay, I don't 0:16:52.880 --> 0:16:56.840 think people understand or know, but those two guys. There's 0:16:56.880 --> 0:17:02.000 a there's a famous rabbi, okay, Andrew. He's an extremist, 0:17:02.640 --> 0:17:08.240 fundamentalist rabbi, Jewish fundamentalist rabbi. What he's been calling for 0:17:08.240 --> 0:17:11.480 for a long time, sadaka Is Kahana was right. He 0:17:11.520 --> 0:17:14.480 was a very fascist rabbi that was basically calling for 0:17:14.520 --> 0:17:18.280 the extermination of all Arabs. And they're basically they're called 0:17:18.440 --> 0:17:22.440 kahanistem and that's it's basically what the left in Israel 0:17:22.520 --> 0:17:28.000 used to call this government. Manchash Khanistem means government of Kahanists. Okay, 0:17:28.240 --> 0:17:32.080 that is what that's who's running the country. And this 0:17:32.359 --> 0:17:35.359 rabbi has been calling for in a biblical sense. And 0:17:35.400 --> 0:17:38.879 we all know when people have an utmost you know, 0:17:39.320 --> 0:17:43.200 devotion to religion, that guides them, right, not our world. 0:17:43.240 --> 0:17:45.560 Our world does not guide them. The religious texts and 0:17:45.600 --> 0:17:47.919 the religious leaders are the ones who tell them what 0:17:48.040 --> 0:17:51.360 is right and what is wrong right religious in religious fundamentalism, 0:17:51.680 --> 0:17:54.679 and so what this rabbi has been calling for for 0:17:54.840 --> 0:18:00.880 years has been a war to end all wars. Okay, 0:18:01.200 --> 0:18:02.720 that is what he's been telling them. That is what 0:18:02.760 --> 0:18:06.680 they've been operating under. Okay, their allegiances are to him, 0:18:06.960 --> 0:18:10.320 not to the Israeli people like literally to that ideology. 0:18:11.119 --> 0:18:13.840 And so they're in the government right now. Over the 0:18:13.920 --> 0:18:21.399 last year, they've been essentially adding illegal settlements at a 0:18:21.520 --> 0:18:28.320 rapid rate, emboldening and empowering settlers to commit violence that 0:18:28.359 --> 0:18:31.560 we haven't seen in many many years, levels of violence 0:18:31.560 --> 0:18:33.560 we haven't been seen in many many years, even before 0:18:33.600 --> 0:18:36.360 this latest aggression I'm talking about over the last twelve months. 0:18:36.400 --> 0:18:40.600 And the biggest most annoying thing that I hear from 0:18:40.800 --> 0:18:45.000 Westerners that think they understand right, they're like, oh, yeah, 0:18:45.520 --> 0:18:48.480 we really care about Palestinians. But Hamas has to go 0:18:49.400 --> 0:18:52.639 two things to that. One, the fact that there are 0:18:52.640 --> 0:18:55.840 Palestinians on the West Bank and the Palestinians in Gaza 0:18:56.160 --> 0:18:58.600 doesn't mean they're not the same people. They're Palestinians in 0:18:58.640 --> 0:19:03.560 forty eight as well. They feel deep feelings of solidarity 0:19:03.680 --> 0:19:07.920 because they're all oppressed in different ways. Right, it's solidarity 0:19:08.000 --> 0:19:12.359 under this got under this Grand Zionist oppression that they experienced. 0:19:12.720 --> 0:19:18.000 And so I think that it's a fallacy that it 0:19:18.040 --> 0:19:21.919 was an unprovoked attack. It's a fallacy, right, It's not 0:19:22.280 --> 0:19:26.879 the case the fact that Aleksa kept getting bombarded by 0:19:26.960 --> 0:19:29.680 settlers on purpose, on purpose, I don't put it back 0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:32.920 like they did this to get a provocation. They've been 0:19:32.960 --> 0:19:36.080 provoking to get the retaliation for Hamas. They've been doing 0:19:36.119 --> 0:19:38.239 this for years. This is nothing new, Right. Every time 0:19:38.320 --> 0:19:40.800 Ramas shot rockets over the last five years is because 0:19:40.880 --> 0:19:44.879 Israel was attacking Elecxa right right after Ramadan if you remember, 0:19:45.119 --> 0:19:48.760 or during Ramadan. Sorry, And so every time a barage 0:19:48.760 --> 0:19:50.800 of rockets came in right after that barrage of rockets 0:19:50.800 --> 0:19:53.399 because Hamas wanted to show that someone is sticking up 0:19:53.440 --> 0:19:56.360 for them. But I'm just saying you have to understand 0:19:56.440 --> 0:19:59.640 the context when you're in a blockade, when you're living 0:19:59.640 --> 0:20:04.440 in a concentration camp, worse than a concentration camp, frankly, Right, 0:20:04.880 --> 0:20:09.240 every electricity is controlled, water is controlled, food is controlled. 0:20:09.480 --> 0:20:12.159 You're not able to leave, right, You're not able to 0:20:12.200 --> 0:20:14.640 freaking leave when you want. You're not able to come 0:20:14.720 --> 0:20:18.800 when you want, not able to. A sixty kilometer strip 0:20:18.840 --> 0:20:21.640 of land is the most densely populated strip of land 0:20:21.680 --> 0:20:26.680 in the entire world. Depression is the the highest rates 0:20:26.720 --> 0:20:30.320 of depression. I think the highest rates of child suicide 0:20:30.480 --> 0:20:34.800 are in Gaza, Okay, when you're living under those conditions, 0:20:35.080 --> 0:20:37.960 I have no idea how you don't. I have no 0:20:38.000 --> 0:20:40.040 idea what that would feel like. So how can I 0:20:40.119 --> 0:20:44.960 judge anyone any response to that? Right in the same breath, 0:20:45.000 --> 0:20:47.120 I can also say it's a tragic thing that innocent 0:20:47.160 --> 0:20:50.520 people died, and they're innocent people, and I think it's 0:20:50.520 --> 0:20:53.760 important to hold that complexity. Also for the Palestinian cause. 0:20:54.040 --> 0:20:56.280 I think it's important to not lose sight of our 0:20:56.359 --> 0:21:01.440 humanity in criticizing the grave injustices that Israel has committed 0:21:01.600 --> 0:21:05.119 and putting the blame squarely on Israel's shoulders. That Hamas exists. 0:21:05.359 --> 0:21:10.240 Yeah, I think that's something that I keep coming back 0:21:10.280 --> 0:21:14.160 to is whenever someone is just all about condemning Hamas, 0:21:14.200 --> 0:21:17.160 which is like, yes, as you mentioned, like innocent people 0:21:17.200 --> 0:21:20.720 shouldn't have died, but I blame all the violence that's 0:21:20.760 --> 0:21:25.000 happening in Israel on Israel, Like, it's not you. Yeah, 0:21:25.040 --> 0:21:27.400 you can't just start like at a slave revolt as 0:21:27.480 --> 0:21:30.639 the beginning of history of slavery. It's like no, actually exactly, 0:21:30.680 --> 0:21:33.040 they did that for a reason and they had no 0:21:33.119 --> 0:21:37.359 other choice. And I mean for Palestinians, I think, like, 0:21:37.400 --> 0:21:41.720 what's the biggest context that's missing is like they've tried everything. 0:21:42.160 --> 0:21:48.000 It's not their first choice to kill people that didn't 0:21:48.040 --> 0:21:52.160 deserve it. It's I think I think that's what's been really 0:21:52.200 --> 0:21:55.800 annoying with the the people that have chosen to spoke 0:21:55.880 --> 0:21:58.640 to speak out that have never spoken out before. They 0:21:58.640 --> 0:22:02.320 are so narrow in their view of this that it's 0:22:02.320 --> 0:22:04.760 so damaging because they have so many follow werds, or 0:22:04.760 --> 0:22:07.040 they're talking about the wrong things, and all of those 0:22:07.040 --> 0:22:13.640 things like kind of perpetuate a really dangerous environment where 0:22:13.680 --> 0:22:15.520 like a six year old kid can get stabbed to death. 0:22:15.640 --> 0:22:18.600 Or I don't know. I agree with everything you said, 0:22:18.640 --> 0:22:21.600 and I really appreciate you saying all those things before 0:22:21.640 --> 0:22:24.200 I forget. We're going to take our first break, so 0:22:24.600 --> 0:22:38.679 don't go anywhere and we're back. Something you mentioned early 0:22:38.760 --> 0:22:41.960 on that I have been thinking about and getting really 0:22:42.040 --> 0:22:47.880 angry about is why people are surprised or like unexpecting 0:22:48.119 --> 0:22:50.200 you to speak out about Palestinians if you are not 0:22:50.280 --> 0:22:54.160 a Palestinian. I am not a Palestinian. I'm Syrian, and 0:22:54.280 --> 0:22:57.879 I am extremely vocal about the Palestinian cause and the 0:22:57.920 --> 0:23:01.080 Palestinian I've always been one hundred perc free Palestine till 0:23:01.080 --> 0:23:06.199 I die. And it's almost like surprising to people, like 0:23:06.200 --> 0:23:08.240 why are you so worked up? Like why aren't you 0:23:08.280 --> 0:23:10.280 so worked up like that? That's what really gets me 0:23:11.200 --> 0:23:15.840 is your humanity and care. It shouldn't be contingent on 0:23:15.880 --> 0:23:19.480 your identity if you actually give a shit. And I 0:23:19.480 --> 0:23:21.439 think that's what I really want to like relate to people, 0:23:21.600 --> 0:23:25.840 is this is not the Palestinian's struggle solely for themselves, 0:23:25.840 --> 0:23:27.840 Like this is a struggle for all. Like if this 0:23:28.160 --> 0:23:32.560 genocide obliterates the Palestinian people, that's on humanity shoulders. That's 0:23:32.600 --> 0:23:35.720 not like that that is so indicative of how depraved 0:23:36.040 --> 0:23:40.359 humans have become. It's just so upsetting. It's just a 0:23:40.400 --> 0:23:45.200 complete obliteration. There has been videos of settlers saying they 0:23:45.200 --> 0:23:47.959 want to flatten the whole thing, make it a parking lot. 0:23:48.880 --> 0:23:50.159 I mean, I don't even have to tell you what 0:23:50.240 --> 0:23:52.760 like actual media and like politicians have been saying because 0:23:52.800 --> 0:23:56.160 it's like atrocious. But I think that's what I want 0:23:56.200 --> 0:23:58.080 to relate to people, is like, if you're not if 0:23:58.119 --> 0:24:01.320 you don't care, examine that because that is troubling to me, 0:24:01.800 --> 0:24:05.959 if you don't care about actual genocide. And maybe that 0:24:06.000 --> 0:24:08.320 word has been used too much to make people give 0:24:08.359 --> 0:24:12.240 a shit, but it really makes me question people's humanity 0:24:12.280 --> 0:24:14.720 when they are able to kind of just like shrug 0:24:14.760 --> 0:24:17.040 it off and continue about their day. 0:24:17.440 --> 0:24:22.200 I've been practicing being hopeful. I think it's really important, 0:24:23.080 --> 0:24:27.800 especially in times like these, to be hopeful because without 0:24:27.920 --> 0:24:32.960 hope and it sounds cheesy, but it's true, we're not empowered, right, 0:24:33.240 --> 0:24:39.639 We're not able to act. And I think what's exciting, 0:24:39.720 --> 0:24:45.760 what's I guess heartening to me is actually the people's 0:24:45.800 --> 0:24:51.720 response to what's happening. Yes, there are many influencers and 0:24:51.760 --> 0:24:55.640 celebrities that posted the wrong thing, I'm also seeing many 0:24:55.640 --> 0:24:58.800 that posted the right thing. Yeah, I'm also seeing many 0:24:58.840 --> 0:25:02.120 people that I'm I'm seeing many people that I wasn't 0:25:02.160 --> 0:25:07.880 surprised by posting the wrong thing. Yeah, frankly, but I'm 0:25:07.880 --> 0:25:13.679 also seeing many people white people, you know, black people, right, 0:25:13.840 --> 0:25:17.080 like people of all kinds that are disconnected, you know, 0:25:17.280 --> 0:25:21.399 from an identity perspective, to the Postinian people doing so 0:25:21.640 --> 0:25:26.159 much showing up. I went to the I was I 0:25:26.520 --> 0:25:31.600 saw images from the protest in uh the other day 0:25:32.119 --> 0:25:34.560 and there, and I'm not talking about the Jewish protest, 0:25:34.600 --> 0:25:37.720 which was amazing, right. What JVP did with if not 0:25:37.760 --> 0:25:41.639 now in front of truck Schumer's house was incredible. Right. 0:25:41.680 --> 0:25:45.359 That's that's solidarity. That's that's that's real, right, That's that's 0:25:45.440 --> 0:25:49.160 that's that's humanity, right, that's what humanity should be. That's 0:25:49.200 --> 0:25:52.199 real solidarity. I'm talking about the protests though, that was 0:25:52.200 --> 0:25:55.399