1
00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:02,880
Speaker 1: Also media.

2
00:00:03,720 --> 00:00:07,840
Speaker 2: Hello, you are about to listen to a rewind episode.

3
00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:11,000
Speaker 2: And it's not that much of a rewind. It's pretty

4
00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:13,880
Speaker 2: recent as far as history goes. But I just really

5
00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:17,200
Speaker 2: love this episode. I'm really proud of it. I'm really

6
00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:21,040
Speaker 2: grateful to have met our guest to Hob Kashi. He

7
00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:23,640
Speaker 2: just has insight that I think a lot of people

8
00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:27,880
Speaker 2: need to hear, especially as a Israeli American right now.

9
00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:32,720
Speaker 2: And yeah, I just find his voice very valuable and

10
00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:42,760
Speaker 2: it's worth a re listen. So here it is. Hello, everybody,

11
00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:45,800
Speaker 2: welcome to it could happen here. This is Sharene and

12
00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:49,840
Speaker 2: I am so happy to be joined by my guest today.

13
00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:52,040
Speaker 2: I've been so excited to speak to him. I am

14
00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:55,880
Speaker 2: joined by dB Kashi. He is a pro policy and

15
00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:59,520
Speaker 2: activist from New York and Israel, and there's just a

16
00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:01,040
Speaker 2: lot of stuff I want to talk to you about.

17
00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:03,760
Speaker 1: So welcome, pleasure to be here. Great to meet you, Sharen.

18
00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:06,480
Speaker 2: I want to start with just some background for the

19
00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:08,280
Speaker 2: audience to just like kind of get to know where

20
00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:11,360
Speaker 2: the perspective you're speaking from. Can you tell me a

21
00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:13,759
Speaker 2: little bit about your family history and where you grew

22
00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:15,560
Speaker 2: up and where your parents are from. And all of that.

23
00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:22,320
Speaker 1: Sure, my parents were both born in Israel, and they,

24
00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:25,399
Speaker 1: like many Israelis, moved to New York City in the

25
00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:31,880
Speaker 1: eighties and had myself and my two siblings, And as

26
00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:35,920
Speaker 1: my grandparents were getting older, to whom we were very close,

27
00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:41,959
Speaker 1: my mom decided to move back to Tel Aviv when

28
00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:46,160
Speaker 1: I was in two thousand, so right before the Second Intifada.

29
00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:52,080
Speaker 1: And so when I was thirteen eighth grade, I moved

30
00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:55,080
Speaker 1: to Tel Aviv for the first time. And you know,

31
00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:58,240
Speaker 1: obviously I was very familiar with it, like visit every summer,

32
00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:04,080
Speaker 1: and you know, grew up in our grandparents' house, both

33
00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:09,959
Speaker 1: of whom were Iraqi Jews who immigrated to Israel in

34
00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:13,840
Speaker 1: the early fifties. And so yeah, so when I moved

35
00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:19,560
Speaker 1: there in eighth grade, I was completely pretty much a

36
00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:22,640
Speaker 1: shock in terms of what I was used to in

37
00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:26,480
Speaker 1: New York. Obviously, I had friends from many different walks

38
00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:30,239
Speaker 1: of life, many different backgrounds here. I was very used

39
00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:32,360
Speaker 1: to that, right, I didn't grew up in you know,

40
00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:36,120
Speaker 1: a very staunch Jewish community. I had Jewish friends, but

41
00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:41,160
Speaker 1: I didn't solely have Jewish friends. And so that's what

42
00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:44,200
Speaker 1: I loved, That's what I embraced, but when I moved

43
00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:48,120
Speaker 1: to Israel, it was very jarring. You know, I had

44
00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:51,320
Speaker 1: studied in Hebrew for the first time, and you know,

45
00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:56,480
Speaker 1: everything that we studied in school was pertaining to the

46
00:02:56,600 --> 00:03:01,640
Speaker 1: Jewish identity. So every kind of history class, you know,

47
00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:04,120
Speaker 1: you'd study about the Roman Empire and the Jewish people.

48
00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:06,560
Speaker 1: You'd study about, you know, ancient Greece and the Jewish people.

49
00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:11,480
Speaker 1: And that's okay to learn about Jewish identity, but intertwining

50
00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:16,320
Speaker 1: it with every aspect of the school curriculum and really

51
00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:20,120
Speaker 1: thinking about the persecure really kind of hammering home this

52
00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:26,200
Speaker 1: notion of persecution, really kind of understanding how you know,

53
00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:30,560
Speaker 1: And again, I think it's important to understand your history

54
00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:34,680
Speaker 1: and history in general, but I think that kind of

55
00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:40,520
Speaker 1: introducing this notion of persecution as a tactic to retraumatize

56
00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:45,720
Speaker 1: people that aren't directly experiencing the trauma. Right, So everyone

57
00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:48,520
Speaker 1: in the world learns about the Holocaust, but did you

58
00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:51,960
Speaker 1: know that in Israel, Holocaust Remembrance Day isn't on the

59
00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:54,840
Speaker 1: same day as the rest of the world's Holocaust Remembrance

60
00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:58,400
Speaker 1: Day because they want to own their own kind of

61
00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:02,720
Speaker 1: version of the Holocaust Remembrance Day. Right. And so you know,

62
00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:05,880
Speaker 1: when you think about the Holocaust, you think about other holocausts,

63
00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:10,240
Speaker 1: other genocides that have happened, and Israel's failure to recognize

64
00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:14,400
Speaker 1: those genocides, like the Armenian genocide, right, and the fact

65
00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:16,960
Speaker 1: that you know, many people don't know, but you know,

66
00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:22,080
Speaker 1: throughout history Israel has armed genocidal forces with Israeli made

67
00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:29,760
Speaker 1: weapons to you know, support imperialist motives and colonialist powers

68
00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:32,560
Speaker 1: around the world. So you know, even even now with

69
00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:37,400
Speaker 1: what's happening in Armenia with the Iserbaijani's right, Israel is

70
00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:40,599
Speaker 1: on the wrong side of that equation, right, And so

71
00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:45,359
Speaker 1: it's never been about standing with the side of the

72
00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:51,320
Speaker 1: oppressed for Israel, It's never been about, you know, ensuring

73
00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:55,359
Speaker 1: that what happens when they say never again, actually never again,

74
00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:58,839
Speaker 1: never happens again to anyone around the world. Right. Think

75
00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:04,479
Speaker 1: about their policy is the racist policies around refugees, right.

76
00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:09,159
Speaker 1: I think people don't understand, right. I have a very

77
00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:14,479
Speaker 1: unique perspective because I understand kind of the minds of

78
00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:18,800
Speaker 1: the colonizers. I can humanize the colonizers. I think there's

79
00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:22,960
Speaker 1: a dangerous kind of maybe thinking about things from a

80
00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:25,080
Speaker 1: bit of a different angle than kind of people are

81
00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:27,719
Speaker 1: used to, and also bringing it back to the events

82
00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:30,000
Speaker 1: of the last ten days or eleven days at this point,

83
00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:33,520
Speaker 1: I think, you know, I've always kind of looked at

84
00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:38,039
Speaker 1: and identified with the Palestinian struggle, right, And I've always

85
00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:43,720
Speaker 1: seen it as human rights struggle, right, and you know,

86
00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:49,200
Speaker 1: as such, and as many well regarded activists and thinkers

87
00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:53,920
Speaker 1: and intellectuals have always talked about the unification of all

88
00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:57,600
Speaker 1: the struggles of the oppress, and that's always always arrived

89
00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:02,000
Speaker 1: at the identification with this struggle for the Palestinian people.

90
00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:06,640
Speaker 1: I've also felt, you know, by virtue of this se

91
00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:12,000
Speaker 1: this imposed identity of you know, Israeli, I've always felt

92
00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:16,080
Speaker 1: directly responsible for the oppression of the Palestinian people, even

93
00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:21,200
Speaker 1: though I've never done anything myself to champion or perpetuate

94
00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:24,200
Speaker 1: that oppression. I've always worked against it from a very

95
00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:28,200
Speaker 1: very young age. Now people always ask me, you know,

96
00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:31,839
Speaker 1: kind of annoying questions like, you know, why do you

97
00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:34,400
Speaker 1: care so much about the Palestinians when so many people

98
00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:36,560
Speaker 1: in the world are suffering. And the answer to that

99
00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:41,039
Speaker 1: question is I care about all suffering. But this is

100
00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:44,680
Speaker 1: something that the government that supposedly represents me, that the

101
00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:50,120
Speaker 1: entity that supposedly represents me is directly perpetrating and frankly,

102
00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:53,200
Speaker 1: after going to many protests in New York and in

103
00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:58,400
Speaker 1: Israel itself, I've realized that this is the most important

104
00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:02,880
Speaker 1: human rights struggle of our generation for sure, but of

105
00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:08,480
Speaker 1: modern times because it stands for all of it's essentially

106
00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:13,000
Speaker 1: the last beacon of direct colonialism. Right. We all know

107
00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:16,240
Speaker 1: how kind of neocolonialism works. I mean, maybe we do

108
00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:20,080
Speaker 1: when we don't, but neo colonialism, through you know, different

109
00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:27,520
Speaker 1: coupitalist structures, right, America has been able to perpetrate neocolonialism

110
00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:33,400
Speaker 1: without actually having to occupy other people, you know, save

111
00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:36,680
Speaker 1: for Iraq for almost twenty years, but or fifteen years

112
00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:41,280
Speaker 1: or whatever, it was a very long time. But Israel

113
00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:46,000
Speaker 1: is directly and physically occupying in other people, and they

114
00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:49,040
Speaker 1: have been for the last seventy five years, right officially

115
00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:54,240
Speaker 1: for the last seventy five years. And that's been a constant, Right,

116
00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:59,280
Speaker 1: It's not, hey, you know, here's a country and let's

117
00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:02,680
Speaker 1: you know fight, let's continue our kind of battle in

118
00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:05,760
Speaker 1: that way. It's been it's always been. If you're a

119
00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:10,600
Speaker 1: scholar of Israeli history of Zionist history, you always you

120
00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:14,640
Speaker 1: start understanding that the goal was to take over all

121
00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:17,440
Speaker 1: of Judaea and Samara, right, And that's kind of how

122
00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:21,840
Speaker 1: the settler government that Netanyahu has in power has been

123
00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:27,520
Speaker 1: speaking for years. Right. I'm really upset and really kind

124
00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:32,000
Speaker 1: of frustrated by the way that the Western media has

125
00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:35,600
Speaker 1: been portraying what's happening over the last eleven days, because

126
00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:39,160
Speaker 1: even Israeli media Halitz, which is an Israeli newspaper, which

127
00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:42,640
Speaker 1: is very prominent one right, isn't portraying it the way

128
00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:46,679
Speaker 1: that the Western media is portraying it. Right, they're criticizing

129
00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:50,880
Speaker 1: the Netanyahu. There's so many people in Israel that are scared, right,

130
00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:54,240
Speaker 1: All the leftists are scared. They're being persecuted. They're signal

131
00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:58,720
Speaker 1: groups doxing friends of mine, people literally fighting for human rights.

132
00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:05,520
Speaker 1: They're doxing them. Israelfrai, he's an Orthodox reporter that's been

133
00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:09,319
Speaker 1: staunchly pro Palestinian and he's a very prominent member of

134
00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:13,719
Speaker 1: the press. Angry mob of right wing extremists try to

135
00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:15,839
Speaker 1: knock down his door the other day and he had

136
00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:19,040
Speaker 1: to escape from the back door and run away. So

137
00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:22,480
Speaker 1: they don't, you know, potentially kill him, right, and so

138
00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:25,240
Speaker 1: these voices are being silenced in Israel. No one is

139
00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:27,880
Speaker 1: talking about that. Everyone in the West is beating the

140
00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:30,959
Speaker 1: drums of war. The media is supporting that. We've seen

141
00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:35,040
Speaker 1: on the kind of a micro but tragic level, what

142
00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:38,160
Speaker 1: happened to that six year old kid that was stobbed

143
00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:41,439
Speaker 1: to death by someone just because of the anti Islamic,

144
00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:45,480
Speaker 1: anti Palestinian rhetoric that's being perpetrated, And so everyone's kind

145
00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:48,720
Speaker 1: of losing their shit as all of a sudden, everyone's

146
00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:52,080
Speaker 1: saying the same thing because everyone is being pushed to

147
00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:56,400
Speaker 1: justify this war. But people are starting to wake up, right,

148
00:09:56,480 --> 00:10:00,199
Speaker 1: the UN's woken up and very very slowly start to

149
00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:03,480
Speaker 1: wake up because they're seeing that genocide is actually being

150
00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:06,760
Speaker 1: committed and so you can't throw your full weight behind genocide.

151
00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:09,720
Speaker 1: But they're walking it back too slowly. And the people

152
00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:13,760
Speaker 1: that I'm disappointed by are people that are supposedly smart,

153
00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:19,480
Speaker 1: spewing complete nonsense rhetoric about two sides. Right. I struggled, Right,

154
00:10:19,559 --> 00:10:21,960
Speaker 1: this is important. I struggled. I know people who were

155
00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:26,040
Speaker 1: killed in the Hamas attack personally and intimately know them. Right.

156
00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:29,079
Speaker 1: You know, my ex girlfriend's best friend was killed. Right,

157
00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:32,599
Speaker 1: She's We've hung out many, many, many times. She was

158
00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:37,239
Speaker 1: a very sweet, very kind person. We know an activist

159
00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:41,000
Speaker 1: who was literally because people don't understand. And this is

160
00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:44,679
Speaker 1: for a lot of the kind of pro Palestinians that

161
00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:47,600
Speaker 1: that that And I completely empathize, and I understand why

162
00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:50,680
Speaker 1: people believe what they believe. Believe me, but this is

163
00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:53,520
Speaker 1: for a lot of the pro Palestinians that you know

164
00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:56,839
Speaker 1: immediately called all of them settlers, right, And I think

165
00:10:56,840 --> 00:10:59,160
Speaker 1: it's important to distinguish because if there's ever going to

166
00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:02,520
Speaker 1: be a path forward this mess, we have to offer

167
00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:09,880
Speaker 1: a new rhetoric that deconstructs the nationalist ideologies. Okay, I

168
00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:13,680
Speaker 1: don't put the Palestinian flag or say free Palestine, which

169
00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:17,280
Speaker 1: I do as a nationalist ideology. I say that as

170
00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:22,880
Speaker 1: a deconstruction of nationalism, as as a call to freedom

171
00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:28,040
Speaker 1: for all, right, though oppressed as well as the oppressor. Right.

172
00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:32,800
Speaker 1: If you actually read everyone's quoting, everyone's quoting Phenonen, right,

173
00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:36,520
Speaker 1: everyone's quoting all these revolutionaries, if you actually read the

174
00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:39,760
Speaker 1: material that they said. Chae Gavari even said the true

175
00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:43,320
Speaker 1: revolutionary is guided by deep with deep feelings of love

176
00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:45,640
Speaker 1: in their heart, and he said this at the risk

177
00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:50,760
Speaker 1: of sounding absurd. He said that direct quote the people

178
00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:54,200
Speaker 1: perpetuating in Israel. I can say this from a first

179
00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:57,600
Speaker 1: hand account. I know very good people that are guided

180
00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:03,440
Speaker 1: by nationalist and fascist idea. However, they've been manipulated, They've

181
00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:07,000
Speaker 1: been lied to, They've they're fed propaganda twenty four to

182
00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:10,640
Speaker 1: seven through the news and the sentiment in Israel right now,

183
00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:14,200
Speaker 1: and I can tell you this, I'm getting messages from people.

184
00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:17,880
Speaker 1: They think everyone is trying to kill Jews. That's what

185
00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:20,440
Speaker 1: they believe, That's what they've been told. They think this

186
00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:23,080
Speaker 1: is armageddon for the Jewish people. That's what the media

187
00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:27,200
Speaker 1: narrative is in Israel. Okay, in spite of the fact

188
00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:30,000
Speaker 1: that there are many people that are against what's happening,

189
00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:33,200
Speaker 1: there are many people that directly blame Netanyahu for this,

190
00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:36,199
Speaker 1: but they're being scared to believe that they're being going

191
00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:38,360
Speaker 1: to be attacked on all fronts, and they have to

192
00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:42,319
Speaker 1: do everything they can to neutralize your threats. Okay, that

193
00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:46,600
Speaker 1: is the survival kind of That is a fact. Does

194
00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:48,920
Speaker 1: that mean that every single person in Israel is a

195
00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:51,559
Speaker 1: terrible human being as evil as some people say, No,

196
00:12:51,679 --> 00:12:55,480
Speaker 1: that is not true at all. Right. And my point is,

197
00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:58,240
Speaker 1: and what a lot of the revolutionaries said, right. Palo

198
00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:02,120
Speaker 1: Freer in the Pedagogy the Oppressed said, in the process

199
00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:07,000
Speaker 1: of dehumanization, the oppressor dehumanizes himself. Putting that aside, though,

200
00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:10,599
Speaker 1: I think that you know, for me, I see I

201
00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:13,720
Speaker 1: know people that died, it was very difficult for me

202
00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:15,920
Speaker 1: the post in the first two days. I think there

203
00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:21,560
Speaker 1: were some problematic justifications for the massacre that didn't sit

204
00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:24,360
Speaker 1: well with me because I'm a humanist. But in the

205
00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:29,360
Speaker 1: same token, right, I think that I understand the context.

206
00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:34,400
Speaker 1: I think it behooves us to understand the context. Right.

207
00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:36,880
Speaker 1: There's a really famous quote. I forget who said it,

208
00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:43,200
Speaker 1: but if you started the clock or started looking at

209
00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:46,080
Speaker 1: kind of the colonization in America from when the Native

210
00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:49,160
Speaker 1: Americans started shooting the arrows, you think that the Native

211
00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:52,800
Speaker 1: Americans were the aggressives. Right. If you started looking at,

212
00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:57,360
Speaker 1: you know, the colonization of Algeria, when the Alga when

213
00:13:57,360 --> 00:14:01,199
Speaker 1: the local population started rebelling, you think that they were

214
00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:05,160
Speaker 1: the aggressives. Right. And that's not to say in the

215
00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:09,520
Speaker 1: same breath that terrible things happen to amazing people there. Right,

216
00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:12,000
Speaker 1: What people don't know and a lot of the Propolst

217
00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:15,440
Speaker 1: movement doesn't know is that many of the people living

218
00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:19,640
Speaker 1: in the area on Gazas are actually activists, like very

219
00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:25,320
Speaker 1: anti zionists, activists right that many of the testimonies of

220
00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:28,560
Speaker 1: the families of the of those activists are saying to

221
00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:32,920
Speaker 1: stop the genocide, that it's not going to bring back

222
00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:36,680
Speaker 1: their friends, their family members. Those are the people that

223
00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:39,600
Speaker 1: were a lot of whom were killed in the attacks,

224
00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:41,960
Speaker 1: because that's where they live, they work with, you know,

225
00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:48,920
Speaker 1: organizations at Gaza like acknowledge that, right, understand the complexity saying, hey,

226
00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:52,040
Speaker 1: you guys are all settlers. That's just dumb. It's not

227
00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:56,040
Speaker 1: factually true. Their grandparents were, their great grandparents were one

228
00:14:56,120 --> 00:15:00,960
Speaker 1: hundred percent. But now their generations and generations of people, right,

229
00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:04,160
Speaker 1: just like in America, their generations and generations of people

230
00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:07,800
Speaker 1: that descended, Are they to be held accountable for the

231
00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:11,480
Speaker 1: actions of their ancestors. Doesn't make any sense. They should

232
00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:14,520
Speaker 1: be held accountable for actions that they take now for sure, right,

233
00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:18,320
Speaker 1: holding your government accountable, you know, thinking about an actual

234
00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:23,480
Speaker 1: solution to this terrible situation that one hundred percent people

235
00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:26,280
Speaker 1: should be held accountable for. But to call them settlers

236
00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:29,520
Speaker 1: as a justification for their deaths is something that I

237
00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:32,320
Speaker 1: will never do, right, and I don't think it helps

238
00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:35,760
Speaker 1: the struggle, right. I think it's important to say, and

239
00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:39,560
Speaker 1: then simultaneously also say, did you guys know that Israel

240
00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:44,040
Speaker 1: played a very major role in establishing the commas? Like

241
00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:48,520
Speaker 1: don't be stupid, open a history books, see what happened, right, Understand,

242
00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:51,200
Speaker 1: don't just be quick to call and quick to say

243
00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:54,000
Speaker 1: both sides. It's not a both side situation. Even though

244
00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:56,800
Speaker 1: the aggression was terrible, those are those two things can

245
00:15:56,840 --> 00:16:01,560
Speaker 1: be true. It's a devastating, tragic event, right, and I

246
00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:03,800
Speaker 1: know many great people that were killed in it, But

247
00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:06,840
Speaker 1: in the same breath, we have to remember what caused it.

248
00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:07,360
Speaker 2: Yeah.

249
00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:11,680
Speaker 1: Context is everything, right, Context is everything. Israel funded the Kamas.

250
00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:15,920
Speaker 1: Bibi has direct quotes in Israeli newspapers saying we have

251
00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:20,200
Speaker 1: to fund the Kamas in order for is Palestinians never

252
00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:23,080
Speaker 1: to have a state. He directly said that how do

253
00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:26,240
Speaker 1: you guys ignore these statements? They've been very Bibi has

254
00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:29,120
Speaker 1: been very clear as to what is going to happen

255
00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:31,320
Speaker 1: and what he's trying to accomplish. And then on top

256
00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:35,880
Speaker 1: of that, to compound things, the settlers in his government

257
00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:40,920
Speaker 1: right now isamal Bengvil and Smotrich are two settlers. They

258
00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:43,800
Speaker 1: literally are settlers, like in according to the national law,

259
00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:49,160
Speaker 1: they're considered settlers, okay, illegal settlers. And there the second

260
00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:52,880
Speaker 1: and third most powerful people in Israel. Okay, I don't

261
00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:56,840
Speaker 1: think people understand or know, but those two guys. There's

262
00:16:56,880 --> 00:17:02,000
Speaker 1: a there's a famous rabbi, okay, Andrew. He's an extremist,

263
00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:08,240
Speaker 1: fundamentalist rabbi, Jewish fundamentalist rabbi. What he's been calling for

264
00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:11,480
Speaker 1: for a long time, sadaka Is Kahana was right. He

265
00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:14,480
Speaker 1: was a very fascist rabbi that was basically calling for

266
00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:18,280
Speaker 1: the extermination of all Arabs. And they're basically they're called

267
00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:22,440
Speaker 1: kahanistem and that's it's basically what the left in Israel

268
00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:28,000
Speaker 1: used to call this government. Manchash Khanistem means government of Kahanists. Okay,

269
00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:32,080
Speaker 1: that is what that's who's running the country. And this

270
00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:35,359
Speaker 1: rabbi has been calling for in a biblical sense. And

271
00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:38,879
Speaker 1: we all know when people have an utmost you know,

272
00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:43,200
Speaker 1: devotion to religion, that guides them, right, not our world.

273
00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:45,560
Speaker 1: Our world does not guide them. The religious texts and

274
00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:47,919
Speaker 1: the religious leaders are the ones who tell them what

275
00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:51,360
Speaker 1: is right and what is wrong right religious in religious fundamentalism,

276
00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:54,679
Speaker 1: and so what this rabbi has been calling for for

277
00:17:54,840 --> 00:18:00,880
Speaker 1: years has been a war to end all wars. Okay,

278
00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:02,720
Speaker 1: that is what he's been telling them. That is what

279
00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:06,680
Speaker 1: they've been operating under. Okay, their allegiances are to him,

280
00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:10,320
Speaker 1: not to the Israeli people like literally to that ideology.

281
00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:13,840
Speaker 1: And so they're in the government right now. Over the

282
00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:21,399
Speaker 1: last year, they've been essentially adding illegal settlements at a

283
00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:28,320
Speaker 1: rapid rate, emboldening and empowering settlers to commit violence that

284
00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:31,560
Speaker 1: we haven't seen in many many years, levels of violence

285
00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:33,560
Speaker 1: we haven't been seen in many many years, even before

286
00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:36,360
Speaker 1: this latest aggression I'm talking about over the last twelve months.

287
00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:40,600
Speaker 1: And the biggest most annoying thing that I hear from

288
00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:45,000
Speaker 1: Westerners that think they understand right, they're like, oh, yeah,

289
00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:48,480
Speaker 1: we really care about Palestinians. But Hamas has to go

290
00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:52,639
Speaker 1: two things to that. One, the fact that there are

291
00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:55,840
Speaker 1: Palestinians on the West Bank and the Palestinians in Gaza

292
00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:58,600
Speaker 1: doesn't mean they're not the same people. They're Palestinians in

293
00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:03,560
Speaker 1: forty eight as well. They feel deep feelings of solidarity

294
00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:07,920
Speaker 1: because they're all oppressed in different ways. Right, it's solidarity

295
00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:12,359
Speaker 1: under this got under this Grand Zionist oppression that they experienced.

296
00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:18,000
Speaker 1: And so I think that it's a fallacy that it

297
00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:21,919
Speaker 1: was an unprovoked attack. It's a fallacy, right, It's not

298
00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:26,879
Speaker 1: the case the fact that Aleksa kept getting bombarded by

299
00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:29,680
Speaker 1: settlers on purpose, on purpose, I don't put it back

300
00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:32,920
Speaker 1: like they did this to get a provocation. They've been

301
00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:36,080
Speaker 1: provoking to get the retaliation for Hamas. They've been doing

302
00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:38,239
Speaker 1: this for years. This is nothing new, Right. Every time

303
00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:40,800
Speaker 1: Ramas shot rockets over the last five years is because

304
00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:44,879
Speaker 1: Israel was attacking Elecxa right right after Ramadan if you remember,

305
00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:48,760
Speaker 1: or during Ramadan. Sorry, And so every time a barage

306
00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:50,800
Speaker 1: of rockets came in right after that barrage of rockets

307
00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:53,399
Speaker 1: because Hamas wanted to show that someone is sticking up

308
00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:56,360
Speaker 1: for them. But I'm just saying you have to understand

309
00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:59,640
Speaker 1: the context when you're in a blockade, when you're living

310
00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:04,440
Speaker 1: in a concentration camp, worse than a concentration camp, frankly, Right,

311
00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:09,240
Speaker 1: every electricity is controlled, water is controlled, food is controlled.

312
00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:12,159
Speaker 1: You're not able to leave, right, You're not able to

313
00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:14,640
Speaker 1: freaking leave when you want. You're not able to come

314
00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:18,800
Speaker 1: when you want, not able to. A sixty kilometer strip

315
00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:21,640
Speaker 1: of land is the most densely populated strip of land

316
00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:26,680
Speaker 1: in the entire world. Depression is the the highest rates

317
00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:30,320
Speaker 1: of depression. I think the highest rates of child suicide

318
00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:34,800
Speaker 1: are in Gaza, Okay, when you're living under those conditions,

319
00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:37,960
Speaker 1: I have no idea how you don't. I have no

320
00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:40,040
Speaker 1: idea what that would feel like. So how can I

321
00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:44,960
Speaker 1: judge anyone any response to that? Right in the same breath,

322
00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:47,120
Speaker 1: I can also say it's a tragic thing that innocent

323
00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:50,520
Speaker 1: people died, and they're innocent people, and I think it's

324
00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:53,760
Speaker 1: important to hold that complexity. Also for the Palestinian cause.

325
00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:56,280
Speaker 1: I think it's important to not lose sight of our

326
00:20:56,359 --> 00:21:01,440
Speaker 1: humanity in criticizing the grave injustices that Israel has committed

327
00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:05,119
Speaker 1: and putting the blame squarely on Israel's shoulders. That Hamas exists.

328
00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:10,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's something that I keep coming back

329
00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:14,160
Speaker 2: to is whenever someone is just all about condemning Hamas,

330
00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:17,160
Speaker 2: which is like, yes, as you mentioned, like innocent people

331
00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:20,720
Speaker 2: shouldn't have died, but I blame all the violence that's

332
00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:25,000
Speaker 2: happening in Israel on Israel, Like, it's not you. Yeah,

333
00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:27,400
Speaker 2: you can't just start like at a slave revolt as

334
00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:30,639
Speaker 2: the beginning of history of slavery. It's like no, actually exactly,

335
00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:33,040
Speaker 2: they did that for a reason and they had no

336
00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:37,359
Speaker 2: other choice. And I mean for Palestinians, I think, like,

337
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:41,720
Speaker 2: what's the biggest context that's missing is like they've tried everything.

338
00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:48,000
Speaker 2: It's not their first choice to kill people that didn't

339
00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:52,160
Speaker 2: deserve it. It's I think I think that's what's been really

340
00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:55,800
Speaker 2: annoying with the the people that have chosen to spoke

341
00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:58,640
Speaker 2: to speak out that have never spoken out before. They

342
00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:02,320
Speaker 2: are so narrow in their view of this that it's

343
00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:04,760
Speaker 2: so damaging because they have so many follow werds, or

344
00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:07,040
Speaker 2: they're talking about the wrong things, and all of those

345
00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:13,640
Speaker 2: things like kind of perpetuate a really dangerous environment where

346
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:15,520
Speaker 2: like a six year old kid can get stabbed to death.

347
00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:18,600
Speaker 2: Or I don't know. I agree with everything you said,

348
00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:21,600
Speaker 2: and I really appreciate you saying all those things before

349
00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:24,200
Speaker 2: I forget. We're going to take our first break, so

350
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:38,679
Speaker 2: don't go anywhere and we're back. Something you mentioned early

351
00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:41,960
Speaker 2: on that I have been thinking about and getting really

352
00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:47,880
Speaker 2: angry about is why people are surprised or like unexpecting

353
00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:50,200
Speaker 2: you to speak out about Palestinians if you are not

354
00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:54,160
Speaker 2: a Palestinian. I am not a Palestinian. I'm Syrian, and

355
00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:57,879
Speaker 2: I am extremely vocal about the Palestinian cause and the

356
00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:01,080
Speaker 2: Palestinian I've always been one hundred perc free Palestine till

357
00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:06,199
Speaker 2: I die. And it's almost like surprising to people, like

358
00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:08,240
Speaker 2: why are you so worked up? Like why aren't you

359
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:10,280
Speaker 2: so worked up like that? That's what really gets me

360
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:15,840
Speaker 2: is your humanity and care. It shouldn't be contingent on

361
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:19,480
Speaker 2: your identity if you actually give a shit. And I

362
00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:21,439
Speaker 2: think that's what I really want to like relate to people,

363
00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:25,840
Speaker 2: is this is not the Palestinian's struggle solely for themselves,

364
00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:27,840
Speaker 2: Like this is a struggle for all. Like if this

365
00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:32,560
Speaker 2: genocide obliterates the Palestinian people, that's on humanity shoulders. That's

366
00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:35,720
Speaker 2: not like that that is so indicative of how depraved

367
00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:40,359
Speaker 2: humans have become. It's just so upsetting. It's just a

368
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:45,200
Speaker 2: complete obliteration. There has been videos of settlers saying they

369
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:47,959
Speaker 2: want to flatten the whole thing, make it a parking lot.

370
00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:50,159
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't even have to tell you what

371
00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:52,760
Speaker 2: like actual media and like politicians have been saying because

372
00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:56,160
Speaker 2: it's like atrocious. But I think that's what I want

373
00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:58,080
Speaker 2: to relate to people, is like, if you're not if

374
00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:01,320
Speaker 2: you don't care, examine that because that is troubling to me,

375
00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:05,959
Speaker 2: if you don't care about actual genocide. And maybe that

376
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 2: word has been used too much to make people give

377
00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:12,240
Speaker 2: a shit, but it really makes me question people's humanity

378
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:14,720
Speaker 2: when they are able to kind of just like shrug

379
00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:17,040
Speaker 2: it off and continue about their day.

380
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:22,200
Speaker 1: I've been practicing being hopeful. I think it's really important,

381
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:27,800
Speaker 1: especially in times like these, to be hopeful because without

382
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 1: hope and it sounds cheesy, but it's true, we're not empowered, right,

383
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:39,639
Speaker 1: We're not able to act. And I think what's exciting,

384
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:45,760
Speaker 1: what's I guess heartening to me is actually the people's

385
00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:51,720
Speaker 1: response to what's happening. Yes, there are many influencers and

386
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:55,640
Speaker 1: celebrities that posted the wrong thing, I'm also seeing many

387
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:58,800
Speaker 1: that posted the right thing. Yeah, I'm also seeing many

388
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:02,120
Speaker 1: people that I'm I'm seeing many people that I wasn't

389
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:07,880
Speaker 1: surprised by posting the wrong thing. Yeah, frankly, but I'm

390
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:13,679
Speaker 1: also seeing many people white people, you know, black people, right,

391
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 1: like people of all kinds that are disconnected, you know,

392
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:21,399
Speaker 1: from an identity perspective, to the Postinian people doing so

393
00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:26,159
Speaker 1: much showing up. I went to the I was I

394
00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:31,600
Speaker 1: saw images from the protest in uh the other day

395
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:34,560
Speaker 1: and there, and I'm not talking about the Jewish protest,

396
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:37,720
Speaker 1: which was amazing, right. What JVP did with if not

397
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:41,639
Speaker 1: now in front of truck Schumer's house was incredible. Right.

398
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:45,359
Speaker 1: That's that's solidarity. That's that's that's real, right, That's that's

399
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:49,160
Speaker 1: that's that's humanity, right, that's what humanity should be. That's

400
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:52,199
Speaker 1: real solidarity. I'm talking about the protests though, that was

401
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:55,399
Speaker 1: Palestinian lad in the midtown, and I saw tons of

402
00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:59,439
Speaker 1: Jews there m hm. And I'm not talking about the

403
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:03,640
Speaker 1: sut Mar anti Zionist, you know Hasidic Jews, those are great, right,

404
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:06,560
Speaker 1: and they're they're helpful. I'm talking about like regular regular

405
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:09,720
Speaker 1: ass Jews, right, like me, Like people like not even

406
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 1: wearing amaicas, like people with you know, small yamicas that

407
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:17,120
Speaker 1: aren't like you know, Hasidic or anything, holding up signs

408
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:22,959
Speaker 1: to help liberate the Pestinian people in spite of the Hamas,

409
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:27,320
Speaker 1: in spite of everything that happened, they showed up, they

410
00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:31,280
Speaker 1: were not scared. A Pastinian flag doesn't scare them, right,

411
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:36,320
Speaker 1: it shouldn't. It shouldn't. But again, I want to be

412
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:41,879
Speaker 1: I want to I want to maintain my my I

413
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:45,000
Speaker 1: guess I want to maintain the view of objectivity. I

414
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 1: think again, you know, Devil's advocate, I think when when

415
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,000
Speaker 1: And again this is not not me blaming, right, it's

416
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 1: more so offering kind of a perspective to question how

417
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:04,880
Speaker 1: to kind of move forward when people Israeli's Jews whoever, right,

418
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:13,760
Speaker 1: are indoctrinated to believe that Palestine means no place for me, okay,

419
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 1: and then you couple that with the anger anguish that

420
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:19,720
Speaker 1: the oppressed people are feeling and saying, yeah, fu fuck that,

421
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 1: like we couldn't want you here, right, like you look

422
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:28,880
Speaker 1: what you're doing to us. I think that they view

423
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:33,879
Speaker 1: the Palestinian flag as a replacement of, you know, the

424
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 1: flag of Israel, which many people actually kind of not

425
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 1: many people, some people view it that way. And I

426
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:44,240
Speaker 1: think that the way I see it and the way

427
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:46,959
Speaker 1: many people I know see it, it's a flag that

428
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 1: represents liberation from oppression, liberation of the Palestinian people who

429
00:27:55,119 --> 00:28:00,680
Speaker 1: are being actively oppressed by Zionism, right, an ideology, right,

430
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:05,240
Speaker 1: you know, perpetuated and executed by people, but it's still

431
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:05,960
Speaker 1: an ideology.

432
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:09,120
Speaker 2: So just like because I think this always comes up,

433
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:12,440
Speaker 2: but being anti zion Its has nothing to do with

434
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:15,440
Speaker 2: being anti Semitic, and I think they always get completed,

435
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:18,800
Speaker 2: and that's on purpose to make people afraid to speak

436
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:23,679
Speaker 2: up about Israel. I can only imagine how brainwashed Zionism

437
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:28,879
Speaker 2: becomes to like the whole, like the like education and everything, like,

438
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:31,720
Speaker 2: is that something you experienced like firsthand.

439
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:36,119
Speaker 1: One hundred percent? I think what we've seen over the

440
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:39,280
Speaker 1: last decade, right, the fact that Natania has been in

441
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 1: power for over twenty years, that's that's like the dictatorship

442
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 1: level stuff. And people in America are like, oh yeah,

443
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:52,120
Speaker 1: the West, you know, there is a semblance of you know,

444
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:55,640
Speaker 1: power to the people in the West, as semblance of it. Right,

445
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,480
Speaker 1: we're seeing how much the media is in cahoots with

446
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 1: you know, power against the people right now, which is very,

447
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:04,440
Speaker 1: very scary and everyone should be up in arms no

448
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 1: matter where your your feelings lie. But there is you know,

449
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:13,840
Speaker 1: there's a new president. You know, every four years of

450
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:16,480
Speaker 1: a president is termed, right, you can't be you can't

451
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:18,320
Speaker 1: be a president for more than two terms. Right. These

452
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:21,440
Speaker 1: are real things, right, these are real protections. You have

453
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:25,760
Speaker 1: three different branches of government, right, you have local level,

454
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:29,960
Speaker 1: local government. You have so many different checks and balances

455
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 1: that are you know, corrupted and corupted in certain ways,

456
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 1: you know, through lobbyists and you know, corporate interests, et cetera.

457
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 1: I'm aware, but at least you have that system. In Israel,

458
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:47,640
Speaker 1: that system doesn't exist, okay, there's no constitution and a

459
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 1: prime minister can't be termed. And so now bib Nintanello

460
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 1: has been in power and figured out how to survive

461
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 1: attempts on his throne many times over through building coalitions

462
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:02,240
Speaker 1: with the right wing extremists, which frankly are against his interests.

463
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 1: Like he wanted to kind of perpetuate status quo and

464
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:06,880
Speaker 1: just kind of be in power. Like this is kind

465
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 1: of made it difficult for him to just be the

466
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:11,960
Speaker 1: guy who kind of, you know, makes it makes everything

467
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:17,320
Speaker 1: okay for Israelis. Right now, Israelis are scared shitless and so.

468
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:21,360
Speaker 1: But but putting that aside and going back to your point,

469
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:29,200
Speaker 1: the knock Aba was never even discussed until recent history.

470
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 1: Like it was not like no one even knew what

471
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 1: that word means. Right, We celebrated it as Jomat's Mote

472
00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 1: Independence Day. So the Israeli Independence Day is the Palestinian's knockbat,

473
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:46,200
Speaker 1: which means the great tragedy for those who don't know,

474
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 1: and the catastrophe. Yes and so. But but what's interesting

475
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 1: and very sad is that in recent years, because of

476
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,200
Speaker 1: the world actually and when Israelis tell you don't know

477
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 1: what you're talking about, don't comment on things you don't

478
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 1: talk about that you don't know about. You most likely

479
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:12,480
Speaker 1: if you've done any any literally any if you read

480
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:15,840
Speaker 1: one book on Palistine, if you read on Palestine by

481
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:20,600
Speaker 1: Noam Chomsky and Elan Pape, like, you know more than

482
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:24,920
Speaker 1: Israelis know about their own situation. And I say that

483
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 1: wholeheartedly because I know what they study, right, They omit

484
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:35,480
Speaker 1: the large swaths of information in order to form the

485
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:41,080
Speaker 1: psyche through the narrative that they perpetuate. And so. But

486
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:45,160
Speaker 1: because of recent external and global pressure, because of the

487
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 1: fact that the world's the new generation of young people

488
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:53,400
Speaker 1: have educated themselves on Palestine, you know, catalyze a lot

489
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:56,720
Speaker 1: of them, catalyzed by the social justice movement. Right, the

490
00:31:56,760 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 1: Angela Davis is the Chomskis of the world who always,

491
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 1: since the sixties, I've been talking about Black liberation is

492
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:08,000
Speaker 1: incomplete without the liberation of Palestinians unifying struggles. They know

493
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 1: more about history of Israel and Palestine then Israeli's neue. Okay.

494
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:17,520
Speaker 1: I've always been super impressed, not like not to say

495
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:19,560
Speaker 1: that people are dumb. I actually think people are very smart,

496
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:24,680
Speaker 1: right if they're willing to look. But every Palestinian friend

497
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 1: of mine, every single one, knows so much about Zionism

498
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 1: and zion Is history, right, there's scholars of Zionist history, right,

499
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:37,680
Speaker 1: But Israeli there's no idea about Palestinians and Palestinian history.

500
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:41,520
Speaker 2: It's just I think it's really unsettling because, I mean,

501
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:42,240
Speaker 2: for those who don't know.

502
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 1: The catastrophe was like massment, like the.

503
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:48,960
Speaker 2: Mass expulsion of like seven hundred and fifty thousand Palestinians,

504
00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:54,880
Speaker 2: ethnic cleansing, massacres, extreme, like just a disgusting show of

505
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:57,960
Speaker 2: forcing someone to leave their land and taking it over.

506
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:03,480
Speaker 2: It was uh atrocious and hurt. And I think the

507
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:05,480
Speaker 2: fact that I can't even learn about power or like

508
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 2: learn deeply about Palestine or Palestinians. It's like another way

509
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:11,480
Speaker 2: of ethnic cleansing and like forgetting to even exist. And

510
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 2: I think that's very unsettling because you can't just forget.

511
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 2: I mean, at the same time, they say, like history

512
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 2: is written by the people that are in power, right

513
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 2: or the people that like win the war, quote unquote,

514
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 2: and they're very capable of convincing a big amount of

515
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 2: people that like like that they were never here.

516
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 1: I think being hopeful is a practice, and I've definitely

517
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 1: fallen into, you know, bouts of depression and helplessness and

518
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 1: hopelessness also I think we all do, but I think

519
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 1: it behooves us to practice hopefulness, especially in times like

520
00:33:54,600 --> 00:34:00,560
Speaker 1: because without it, we don't have the power to liberate

521
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:07,480
Speaker 1: the oppressed. Right, Yeah, and I think you know, yeah,

522
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:11,480
Speaker 1: I mean, like like you said, it's it's I think

523
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:15,680
Speaker 1: it's also important. I keep saying, the Palestinian struggle is

524
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 1: the people's movement all over the world, right, and we're

525
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 1: seeing that it's not me, I'm nobody, but we're seeing

526
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:26,200
Speaker 1: that people understand that. Right. Like I said, people are smart, Right,

527
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:28,359
Speaker 1: you don't have to go to you know, an Ivy

528
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 1: League school to be intelligent, right, Palafreier talked about banking

529
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 1: and intelligence. Right, when you just consume information from a teacher,

530
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 1: perpetuating the perpetuating the injustices, and maintaining the system of oppression, right,

531
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:46,040
Speaker 1: you can be as educated as you want in that

532
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:49,400
Speaker 1: form of education and not understand the world and understand

533
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:53,120
Speaker 1: the inequalities around you. Right, But if you feel those inequalities,

534
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:55,880
Speaker 1: if you have that empathy, if you're able to expand

535
00:34:55,920 --> 00:35:00,680
Speaker 1: your consciousness a little bit to also include those that

536
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:04,600
Speaker 1: you may not identify with or as, or you know

537
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:07,640
Speaker 1: that that maybe are not tangible, their experience is not

538
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:11,320
Speaker 1: as tangible to you, then then you're able to understand

539
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:15,080
Speaker 1: situations pretty clearly and easily. And I think the world

540
00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:17,960
Speaker 1: is showing up because they understand that. Right. Sure, the

541
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:21,280
Speaker 1: air world is showing up. And that's incredible, right because

542
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:24,600
Speaker 1: they understand. Right, this is like what I always say

543
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 1: is Palestine is the last kind of like I said earlier,

544
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 1: the last direct colonialist project that exists in the world direct, right,

545
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:39,800
Speaker 1: in terms of direct and active about that colonials project

546
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:43,440
Speaker 1: that exists in the world and the air world. You know,

547
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 1: if you read Edwards Aid and Orientalism, you understand how

548
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 1: the West basically created and othered kind of they are

549
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:55,160
Speaker 1: a world in order to create that separation and division,

550
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:59,840
Speaker 1: in order to create, you know, a world that serves

551
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:06,200
Speaker 1: interest in visualism versus kind of communitarianism and of the

552
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:09,640
Speaker 1: kind of East. And so when you when you think

553
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:13,239
Speaker 1: about in that context, you start understanding that you know,

554
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:16,799
Speaker 1: this is and this is a struggle against kind of

555
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:21,399
Speaker 1: Western imperialism, right, this is a struggle to free all

556
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 1: oppressed people, because that's what that's what Zionism Israel currently

557
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:30,360
Speaker 1: stands for. And everyone who perpetuates it, and people that

558
00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:33,440
Speaker 1: talk about intersectionality and anti racism and all of that,

559
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:36,560
Speaker 1: and they still say and they still don't understand that

560
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:40,080
Speaker 1: this is literally a real time manifestation of the ship

561
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 1: that they've been reading in history book, right, and we're

562
00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:47,319
Speaker 1: seeing it and it's jarring, and resistance is fucking jarring, right,

563
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:49,960
Speaker 1: Like it was darring to me. I could barely watch it.

564
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:52,279
Speaker 1: I had people crying, you know, and this is I

565
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:54,320
Speaker 1: didn't say this earlier, but I had you know, family

566
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:56,040
Speaker 1: members that didn't want to speak to me, and like,

567
00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:58,960
Speaker 1: you know, people cursing at me, and like friends from

568
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:02,439
Speaker 1: you know, middle school sending me heate messages. My mom

569
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:07,399
Speaker 1: is receiving death threats, right, Like, this is real shit, right,

570
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 1: and so like this isn't like an abstract like and

571
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:14,880
Speaker 1: and so you know that's what that's what people don't

572
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 1: necessarily understand when they just approach it academically. And I

573
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:21,200
Speaker 1: commend them. And I think it's important to like understand

574
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:24,160
Speaker 1: the intellectual context of things, like I've done the work,

575
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:27,600
Speaker 1: I've read the books, but I think it's also important

576
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:30,400
Speaker 1: to kind of take a step back and contextualize things

577
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:35,399
Speaker 1: all around, right, and and only through that contextualization can

578
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:40,840
Speaker 1: we rehumanize, you know, both the the oppressed and the

579
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 1: oppressor are in order to actually have a path forward

580
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 1: that's inclusive of all that doesn't that doesn't pit people

581
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:52,080
Speaker 1: against each other. Right, Jews lived on that land for

582
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 1: many years before Zionism, if.

583
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:59,240
Speaker 2: Your scholar, I want to say, that's just fine, before

584
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:03,319
Speaker 2: the introductions of Zionism, which is a very modern, very

585
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:04,800
Speaker 2: fascist ideology.

586
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:08,919
Speaker 1: Not only Zionism though, right, Like think about Syke's Picot, right,

587
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:14,320
Speaker 1: the British French treaty that was signed in nineteen twenty

588
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:19,120
Speaker 1: that sliced up the Arab world according to their whim

589
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:24,880
Speaker 1: didn't take into account any demog any, ethnic geographic relations,

590
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:27,880
Speaker 1: didn't take into account any of that, and that is

591
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:30,040
Speaker 1: what's set the tone for a lot of what we're

592
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:34,279
Speaker 1: seeing in their world today. Right, compounded by the introduction

593
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:40,080
Speaker 1: of a European ideology into the region that served European interests,

594
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:42,919
Speaker 1: is what is what we're seeing to this very day,

595
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 1: and the Palestinians bear the biggest brunt of it. I

596
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:47,720
Speaker 1: wouldn't say like I would say, like in recent years,

597
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:52,759
Speaker 1: there's tragedies all around due to Western imperialism and Western intervention, right,

598
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:55,040
Speaker 1: I take that back, right, Like I don't want to

599
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:58,799
Speaker 1: compare tragedies, but the tragedy of the Palestinian people that

600
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:02,319
Speaker 1: there's no one really advocating on their behalf. Yea. I

601
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:04,839
Speaker 1: was going to add a wrinkle that probably ninety nine

602
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:09,360
Speaker 1: point nine percent of the population doesn't know, including Pustinians

603
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:13,319
Speaker 1: and Arabs, because it was actively erased. But up until

604
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:19,359
Speaker 1: Psykes Pico, up until Western imperialism, Arab Jews were an

605
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:26,319
Speaker 1: integral part of Arabic culture. Okay, any my grandparents from Iraq, right,

606
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:29,319
Speaker 1: Iraq wasn't The Iraqi Jews were not Zionists. There were

607
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:32,279
Speaker 1: hundreds of thousands of Jews in Iraq that lived there

608
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:33,799
Speaker 1: since Babylonian times.

609
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:34,000
Speaker 2: Right.

610
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:36,319
Speaker 1: There are many, you know, many empires that came through

611
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:39,720
Speaker 1: the air world. Right, so this place replaced et cetera.

612
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:44,480
Speaker 1: But they were there for hundreds of years at the minimum.

613
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:47,840
Speaker 1: Some would say some of them were actually not there

614
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:51,399
Speaker 1: due to the Spanish Inquisition, right, but actually were there

615
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:56,239
Speaker 1: before and never left basically, And so you know, they

616
00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:59,000
Speaker 1: were musicians, you know, they played in Kusum, right, like

617
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:03,520
Speaker 1: they were statesmen. They were very integral part of the culture. Right.

618
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:06,520
Speaker 1: And they are many Arab friends that do know this,

619
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:09,680
Speaker 1: and they they're like, yeah, like it's the biggest, the biggest,

620
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:12,400
Speaker 1: one of the biggest tragedies is kind of the betrayal

621
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:16,880
Speaker 1: of the Arab jew right, And they understand, right, like

622
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:20,160
Speaker 1: when at this point in time, and this is not

623
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:23,520
Speaker 1: only iraqis was Egypt and you know Yemen and Morocco.

624
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:27,600
Speaker 1: There's a huge community, right, like these these people live there.

625
00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:31,400
Speaker 1: The Nazism is not an Arabic concept. They're trying to

626
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:33,120
Speaker 1: paint Arabs as Nazis.

627
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:35,600
Speaker 2: Even growing up, I would go to Syria a lot,

628
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:39,120
Speaker 2: and my grandfather would like he would only get bread

629
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:41,319
Speaker 2: at the Jewish bakery, like he would take the walk

630
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:44,120
Speaker 2: and go there and it was normal. No one cares,

631
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:48,080
Speaker 2: like no one gives a shit really what your religion

632
00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:51,920
Speaker 2: is in those communities. And I think, I mean, this

633
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:54,759
Speaker 2: is obvious for people that are reading about all of this,

634
00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:59,799
Speaker 2: but the media and Zionism in Israel, they're purposely conflating

635
00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 2: what's happening with religion to make it more complicated for people,

636
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:05,760
Speaker 2: to make it this like ancient battle of all time,

637
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:09,720
Speaker 2: when it's not about any kind of Muslim versus Jewish

638
00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 2: versus Arab versus whatever. It's it's really so simple, to

639
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:16,080
Speaker 2: the point where it's kind of silly. And I think

640
00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:19,280
Speaker 2: they make it so complicated for people to be scared

641
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:21,319
Speaker 2: to talk about it. They're they're not informed enough. They

642
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:23,120
Speaker 2: don't know about religion, they don't know about the history.

643
00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:24,640
Speaker 2: You don't have to know about any of that to

644
00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:27,480
Speaker 2: know that oppression is wrong and genocide is wrong.

645
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:34,719
Speaker 1: And every every every resistance movement in history was considered

646
00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:41,440
Speaker 1: a terrorist, yes, movement in modern times, right, even Israeli militias. Right,

647
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:45,440
Speaker 1: you had the Lech, the Excel and the Aganah. Okay,

648
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:50,480
Speaker 1: they're considered terrorist organizations. Because they would attack civilian British

649
00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:54,960
Speaker 1: and they've attacked civilian targets during the British mandate. Yep,

650
00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:59,680
Speaker 1: sounds familiar. But you know what, those those three militias

651
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:05,400
Speaker 1: became the idea, the idea exactly. The three militias that

652
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:08,000
Speaker 1: that formed the idea if once Israel was given statehood

653
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:12,880
Speaker 1: were considered terrorist organizations, the IRA terrorist organization. Right, Melson

654
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:15,840
Speaker 1: Mandela was on the US Terrorists Watchless until two thousand

655
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:18,840
Speaker 1: and eight. These are real things. These are all facts.

656
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:21,839
Speaker 1: But I'm saying even if you're thinking about it from

657
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:27,200
Speaker 1: the perspective of attacking civilians, Okay, wrong my opinion, But

658
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:30,439
Speaker 1: when you don't have if you look at actually ere

659
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:34,880
Speaker 1: another another fact. Right, look at what the Chbella is doing. Okay,

660
00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:38,200
Speaker 1: they were considered terrorist organization. Their armed to the teeth.

661
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:42,279
Speaker 1: Israel scared shitless of the Isabella threat. I'm hearing it

662
00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:45,600
Speaker 1: from people on the ground, right, they're attacking military targets.

663
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:48,960
Speaker 1: They're showing the world that they can't because they can.

664
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:52,359
Speaker 1: They used to not be able to, Now they can.

665
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 1: So they are When a population is oppressed, suppressed to

666
00:42:56,719 --> 00:43:00,799
Speaker 1: the level that the Gossins are, what military do they

667
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:03,400
Speaker 1: have Do they have F sixteen fighter jets that they

668
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:07,879
Speaker 1: can go and bomb? I don't know the Kiriyah? Did

669
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:10,120
Speaker 1: you guys know that the biggest military base in Israel

670
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:11,360
Speaker 1: is in the middle of the Tel Aviv.

671
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:13,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, in a residential area.

672
00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:16,080
Speaker 1: In a residential area. So what if? What if? What

673
00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:18,960
Speaker 1: if the Gosins had F sixteen fighter what if Kamas

674
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:21,879
Speaker 1: had F sixteen fighters? They wouldn't want to bomb that? Yeah?

675
00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:25,040
Speaker 1: Like people are people that dense like that, they don't

676
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:29,640
Speaker 1: understand how this thing works and what what oppression looks like. Right.

677
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:32,359
Speaker 1: A lot of my Pastinian friends always say the world

678
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:34,880
Speaker 1: wants us to be the perfect victims. Yeah, and in

679
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:37,760
Speaker 1: a lot of in a lot of senses, the burden

680
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:41,680
Speaker 1: is always on the victim, right in these oppressive scenarios.

681
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:44,000
Speaker 1: So I always tell them, guys, like, we have to

682
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:47,200
Speaker 1: be smart. We have to make sure that you know, again,

683
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:51,960
Speaker 1: I like, it's it's trauma that I can't you know,

684
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:54,640
Speaker 1: I feel in my bones, But but it's not, it's

685
00:43:54,680 --> 00:43:58,000
Speaker 1: not directly happening to me, and and and so I can't.

686
00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 1: I'm not It's not from a place of judgment, It's

687
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:02,919
Speaker 1: from a pragmatic perspective. We have to understand that that's

688
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:06,000
Speaker 1: the trap that they're setting for us. The Kamas enacted.

689
00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:11,640
Speaker 1: The Kamas did exactly what the right wing government wanted

690
00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:15,040
Speaker 1: them to do in order to justify the plan that

691
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:17,279
Speaker 1: they had all along. I'm not going to go so

692
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:20,040
Speaker 1: far as to start perpetuating conspiracy theories because it's not

693
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:22,719
Speaker 1: my place. So I'm not going to say that they

694
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:24,680
Speaker 1: planned this and it was, you know, an inside job.

695
00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:27,560
Speaker 1: I'm not going to say that. But what I will

696
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:31,560
Speaker 1: say is it served the interests of the right wing government.

697
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:34,759
Speaker 1: And the one thing I wanted to say, because I

698
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:38,520
Speaker 1: keep going off on tangents and I apologize, But to

699
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:41,799
Speaker 1: your point about the Knakaba, I said, in the last

700
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:45,560
Speaker 1: ten years, it's pretty crazy to see the narrative shift.

701
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:51,280
Speaker 1: Israel has so been so emboldened. They feel so invincible

702
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:54,799
Speaker 1: because of the international support that they have. Now they

703
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:57,920
Speaker 1: acknowledge the Knokaba. Now they acknowledge a enough, but we

704
00:44:57,960 --> 00:45:00,759
Speaker 1: know how they acknowledge it. They say, yeah, the knuck happened,

705
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:04,000
Speaker 1: Let's do a second one, yep, right, And so now

706
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:05,960
Speaker 1: they're now all of a sudden the knock by existed, right,

707
00:45:06,239 --> 00:45:08,600
Speaker 1: and they're basically saying, hey, let's do a second one.

708
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:11,320
Speaker 1: All the like, all the right wing govern of government

709
00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:13,319
Speaker 1: officials were saying, second knock, But let's do it now,

710
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:16,360
Speaker 1: let's let's that's what they're trying to do. Yeah, I

711
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:20,359
Speaker 1: mean they're trying to do in Gaza. The humanitarian it.

712
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:22,120
Speaker 2: Feels like the first one just ended right.

713
00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:24,480
Speaker 1: That I always I always say that I agree, but

714
00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:27,200
Speaker 1: I'm saying, like I'm talking about mass expulsion right now.

715
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:30,320
Speaker 1: They're trying to They're trying, under international on everyone's noses

716
00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:36,880
Speaker 1: to utilize genocide and ethnic cleansing to displace millions of

717
00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:40,000
Speaker 1: Palestindiums from Gaza. And God knows, I don't. They don't

718
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:42,960
Speaker 1: have a they don't. This was like a biblical idea, right,

719
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:46,480
Speaker 1: like the Judean Samaria. This is not like a there's

720
00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:49,239
Speaker 1: no like specific plans that people had, Like this is

721
00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:54,160
Speaker 1: a biblical, fervent, ideological idea. They don't freaking know what

722
00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:57,520
Speaker 1: they're doing. They don't want to go to the don't

723
00:45:57,520 --> 00:45:59,440
Speaker 1: want to go to war with Iran. They're scared of

724
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:02,640
Speaker 1: the like these are real things, these are real threats,

725
00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:06,240
Speaker 1: Like Israel hasn't fought a real opponent since the seventies

726
00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:08,439
Speaker 1: and the pool war. That's what I'm trying to say,

727
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:11,240
Speaker 1: Like this showed how vulnerable they are and they're scared.

728
00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:13,080
Speaker 1: I'm telling you, Like I know the sentiment on the ground,

729
00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:15,520
Speaker 1: like people are scared out of their minds. They don't think.

730
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:19,680
Speaker 1: They're not very confident in Israel's military, right, Like that's

731
00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:21,520
Speaker 1: why they're bombing the shit, and like that's why they

732
00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:23,680
Speaker 1: haven't invaded. They said they're going to invade, babes talking

733
00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:26,280
Speaker 1: this big game. They haven't done yet because they're scared.

734
00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:29,960
Speaker 2: Remember also, is that the IDF that's all. It does

735
00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:32,719
Speaker 2: not actually act in the best interests of the civilians,

736
00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:34,520
Speaker 2: if anything. Like there was like a report from an

737
00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:39,880
Speaker 2: Israeli woman who survived the massacre at the music festival

738
00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:42,200
Speaker 2: that said a lot of them were shot by like

739
00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:44,520
Speaker 2: their own forces. It was like indiscriminate shooting.

740
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:49,439
Speaker 1: The biggest casualties for Israeli soldiers up until this was

741
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:52,160
Speaker 1: friendly fire. Yeah really, that's.

742
00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:56,240
Speaker 2: I mean, I just think that's so hard to remember

743
00:46:56,320 --> 00:47:02,239
Speaker 2: because it's a they're framed as this very like ideal

744
00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:06,120
Speaker 2: warrior bullshit, and it's so far from the truth.

745
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:09,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I'm saying. They're eighteen year old kids, yeah,

746
00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:15,480
Speaker 1: these aren't like US like marines that are career assassins.

747
00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:17,640
Speaker 1: Like have you ever seen in a US marine and

748
00:47:17,719 --> 00:47:21,200
Speaker 1: next to an Israeli soldiers? I'm serious, like like I know.

749
00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:23,760
Speaker 2: It's become a trend to be a soldier of anything.

750
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:26,800
Speaker 2: It's like very like you see these like young people

751
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:32,439
Speaker 2: like yeah, exactly, it's like a very cool thing to.

752
00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:35,640
Speaker 1: Do because there was never a threat though Israel. Israel

753
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:38,279
Speaker 1: has been You've grown up in Israel believing that you're

754
00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:40,239
Speaker 1: the most powerful entity and you can do whatever you

755
00:47:40,239 --> 00:47:44,759
Speaker 1: want whenever you want, right, and that notion has been

756
00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:46,759
Speaker 1: shaken to its core. And if you're part of the

757
00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:49,400
Speaker 1: propaganda machine, if you're caught in the propaganda machine that

758
00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:53,200
Speaker 1: is kind of Zionist Israeli ideology, you're basically now your

759
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:57,279
Speaker 1: whole world is crumbled beneath you. Right, you're completely in

760
00:47:57,320 --> 00:48:00,279
Speaker 1: survival mode. Everyone's posting everyone, it's like you have to

761
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:02,840
Speaker 1: eradicate come us. They're not even eradicating comas what are

762
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:05,720
Speaker 1: they doing, They're just emboldening come us. Like this happens

763
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:07,640
Speaker 1: all the time. It's just happening on a much bigger scale.

764
00:48:07,719 --> 00:48:11,200
Speaker 1: Right now, any hamas leader that the thing I was

765
00:48:11,239 --> 00:48:15,160
Speaker 1: basically looking for like a big like a major hamas leadership,

766
00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:19,680
Speaker 1: you know, attack and once they're able to neutralize, you know,

767
00:48:19,719 --> 00:48:24,120
Speaker 1: in their words numerous high ranking officials, I think they'll

768
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:26,880
Speaker 1: declare victory, even though they're not going to be victorious.

769
00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:30,040
Speaker 1: They're not going to bring back the fourteen hundred people.

770
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:32,120
Speaker 2: They're also going to kill the hostages at this rate,

771
00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:33,480
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Like they're not like.

772
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:35,080
Speaker 1: They've already killed more than twenty two.

773
00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:38,239
Speaker 2: That's how much do you actually care about your civilians

774
00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:40,720
Speaker 2: and the hostage like the foreign hostages either like it's

775
00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:44,200
Speaker 2: your but but I don't know those clearly showing their ass.

776
00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:47,520
Speaker 1: In my opinion, I want to have a clear message

777
00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:51,400
Speaker 1: though to kind of people that are on the fence

778
00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:58,080
Speaker 1: in the West that are being fed propaganda through Western

779
00:48:58,120 --> 00:49:00,120
Speaker 1: media outlets. That is quite clear at this point, and

780
00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:02,120
Speaker 1: some of them recognize this, and that's why they come

781
00:49:02,120 --> 00:49:04,480
Speaker 1: to my page and they're like, oh, you know, thank you,

782
00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:08,480
Speaker 1: I didn't I didn't know. I didn't know. In Israel,

783
00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:14,560
Speaker 1: there are many people, not even ideologically that want to

784
00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:17,520
Speaker 1: bring the hostages back and don't understand why Israel is

785
00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:20,719
Speaker 1: doing what it's doing before and not even talking to

786
00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:21,840
Speaker 1: them about the hostages.

787
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:26,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is complete being like plead, it's just yeah.

788
00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:29,560
Speaker 1: I'm not talking about left wing activists. I'm talking about

789
00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:34,240
Speaker 1: like average israelis right. Natanya has failed the Israeli people

790
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:37,759
Speaker 1: that attack the fact that and again this I don't

791
00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:39,759
Speaker 1: know if people know this right people who know, no,

792
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:44,040
Speaker 1: but maybe some some don't, that attack was a complete

793
00:49:44,080 --> 00:49:48,360
Speaker 1: military failure on behalf of Israel. And that happened because

794
00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:52,839
Speaker 1: over the last six to nine months since the right

795
00:49:52,880 --> 00:50:00,560
Speaker 1: wing government took place, took power, they've been using the

796
00:50:00,640 --> 00:50:07,759
Speaker 1: IDF to support, empower, embolden and protect settlers in the

797
00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:11,160
Speaker 1: West Bank. And that's why settler attacks have increased. That's

798
00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:13,960
Speaker 1: why settlements have increased, that's why they're more settlers than

799
00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:16,200
Speaker 1: ever before. And what they were doing on that very

800
00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:18,920
Speaker 1: day people don't already know. I hope they do. But

801
00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:21,640
Speaker 1: if they don't already know, the IDF was in the

802
00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:25,319
Speaker 1: West Bank on Suquot, which is a Jewish holiday, and

803
00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:31,920
Speaker 1: they were protecting settlers in building a sukkah structure that

804
00:50:32,239 --> 00:50:38,280
Speaker 1: people sit in in the middle of Juara, a Palestinian village,

805
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:43,000
Speaker 1: and they were protecting them and chaper owning them. So

806
00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:45,239
Speaker 1: that they can break into Palestinian village to build a

807
00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:49,319
Speaker 1: suka in order to antagonize Testinians. That's say what you

808
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:52,560
Speaker 1: may about anything else, the fact that that is the

809
00:50:52,560 --> 00:50:54,760
Speaker 1: priority of the government. You know you're doing the oppression.

810
00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:59,120
Speaker 1: You're already committing the oppression. You're already subjugating the Tastinian people.

811
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:02,440
Speaker 1: You know that Haman is Cobabs. You're going to remove

812
00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:07,160
Speaker 1: the security forces from the border to embolden and empower

813
00:51:07,239 --> 00:51:08,160
Speaker 1: settlers instead.

814
00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:09,359
Speaker 2: That's shame.

815
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:10,400
Speaker 1: It doesn't make any sense.

816
00:51:11,040 --> 00:51:14,160
Speaker 2: No, it's it's I mean, that's why the most unsettling

817
00:51:14,239 --> 00:51:16,480
Speaker 2: things I've seen coming out of Israel are those right

818
00:51:16,520 --> 00:51:19,400
Speaker 2: wing protests where they're like death to Arabs and whatever,

819
00:51:19,520 --> 00:51:21,759
Speaker 2: or like they're attacking people and the ideaf is like

820
00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:34,920
Speaker 2: either helping them or standing by. If you're on the

821
00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:38,719
Speaker 2: fence about this, still, you are literally for genocide. Those

822
00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:41,640
Speaker 2: are the two differences. It's either your for genocide or

823
00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:47,320
Speaker 2: you're against genocide. And if you're considering the options, examine yourself.

824
00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:52,960
Speaker 2: That's not right. I was just sent this tweet apparently yesterday,

825
00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:57,600
Speaker 2: the twitter for Israeli Prime Minister at Israel PM said

826
00:51:58,200 --> 00:52:00,640
Speaker 2: this is a struggle between the children of light and

827
00:52:00,680 --> 00:52:03,840
Speaker 2: the children of darkness, between humanity and the law of

828
00:52:03,880 --> 00:52:08,960
Speaker 2: the jungle. Are you fucking kidding me? That's like Nazi

829
00:52:09,040 --> 00:52:12,239
Speaker 2: Hitler shit, are you? There are so many lives I've

830
00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:14,080
Speaker 2: already been lost, and the ones that have not been

831
00:52:14,120 --> 00:52:16,479
Speaker 2: lost are never going to recover. They've lost so much

832
00:52:17,680 --> 00:52:21,160
Speaker 2: other than their life. There are so many terrifying and

833
00:52:21,239 --> 00:52:26,880
Speaker 2: horrific videos that I've seen that no one should have

834
00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:29,360
Speaker 2: to go through. And not only are they going through it,

835
00:52:29,360 --> 00:52:32,320
Speaker 2: they're getting funded and encouraged by most of the world.

836
00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:38,759
Speaker 2: I cannot accept that. I sorry, I don't want to cry,

837
00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:39,719
Speaker 2: but I might.

838
00:52:41,200 --> 00:52:44,520
Speaker 1: I mean, it's that's where we're at at this point.

839
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:50,200
Speaker 2: No, but I appreciate you being here to get through

840
00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:53,359
Speaker 2: to people who might still be considering what's happening as

841
00:52:53,719 --> 00:52:57,440
Speaker 2: a both sides thing or a justification for anything when

842
00:52:57,480 --> 00:53:00,600
Speaker 2: they see tweets like that, or when they see justification

843
00:53:00,680 --> 00:53:03,000
Speaker 2: for killing all the people because they're all barbarians or

844
00:53:03,040 --> 00:53:06,560
Speaker 2: whatever it is. I urge you. I urge you to

845
00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:11,160
Speaker 2: seek out Palestinian sources of news, actually see what's happening

846
00:53:11,440 --> 00:53:16,360
Speaker 2: in Gaza, listen to people who are not advertising anything

847
00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:22,120
Speaker 2: to you, and it's like pleading for their lives. I

848
00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:26,160
Speaker 2: just this can't be how we end up as a people.

849
00:53:26,520 --> 00:53:28,600
Speaker 1: I'm very sad.

850
00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:35,080
Speaker 2: It's extremely unlike no words to describe how devastating. And

851
00:53:35,120 --> 00:53:37,760
Speaker 2: I think if you are listening and you are wondering

852
00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:40,759
Speaker 2: what to do, there are places you can donate to.

853
00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:43,320
Speaker 2: I can put some links in the description of sources

854
00:53:43,320 --> 00:53:46,800
Speaker 2: that I trust of people to follow and all that stuff,

855
00:53:46,840 --> 00:53:50,560
Speaker 2: so you can look at the description for that. I

856
00:53:50,560 --> 00:53:53,359
Speaker 2: think what's very important that people maybe aren't taking too

857
00:53:53,360 --> 00:53:57,759
Speaker 2: seriously is how important social media and like spreading awareness

858
00:53:57,760 --> 00:54:01,480
Speaker 2: has been, because the only reason and the resistance has

859
00:54:01,480 --> 00:54:04,399
Speaker 2: come this far is because of that. Because more people

860
00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:08,160
Speaker 2: are aware about what's going on, people aren't accepting that

861
00:54:08,239 --> 00:54:12,160
Speaker 2: Israel is doing this. So I think we just can't stop.

862
00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:14,360
Speaker 2: Like as much as they want the world to forget

863
00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:17,880
Speaker 2: that Palestines were even there, we cannot forget Palestinians. And

864
00:54:18,280 --> 00:54:20,440
Speaker 2: I'm not going to stop talking about it, and you

865
00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:21,080
Speaker 2: shouldn't either.

866
00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:24,520
Speaker 1: This is why I'm speaking on I just set a

867
00:54:24,560 --> 00:54:30,439
Speaker 1: message on Palestinian friends. You are our voice. Now We're

868
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:33,200
Speaker 1: not allowed to spit out a lip. They are arresting

869
00:54:33,239 --> 00:54:36,839
Speaker 1: anyone who speaks or shares the truth. Please, I beg

870
00:54:36,880 --> 00:54:38,960
Speaker 1: you don't give up on our people in Gaza. We

871
00:54:39,040 --> 00:54:42,240
Speaker 1: need your voice to stop the genocide. Thousands of lives

872
00:54:42,239 --> 00:54:45,080
Speaker 1: have already been taken. We can't stand this anymore.

873
00:54:45,680 --> 00:54:47,239
Speaker 2: Please listen to that, everybody.

874
00:54:47,840 --> 00:54:55,720
Speaker 1: Please, it's very hard to fathom and internalize what's happening.

875
00:54:56,239 --> 00:54:59,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a lot, and we're privileged enough to think

876
00:54:59,480 --> 00:55:02,680
Speaker 2: about it deeply. The people in Gods of Palestinians, they

877
00:55:02,680 --> 00:55:06,480
Speaker 2: don't have the luxury of no of anything other than

878
00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:09,040
Speaker 2: their nightmare of a reality.

879
00:55:09,680 --> 00:55:13,480
Speaker 1: No, I want to add san just because I think

880
00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:17,360
Speaker 1: that the biggest kind of pushback that we keep hearing

881
00:55:17,480 --> 00:55:24,239
Speaker 1: is Hamas. And I think that again remembering what we

882
00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:29,200
Speaker 1: kind of mentioned earlier in the call, how liberation movements

883
00:55:29,239 --> 00:55:35,319
Speaker 1: for occupied peoples have always been deemed terrorist organizations and

884
00:55:36,080 --> 00:55:39,600
Speaker 1: you know, even targeted civilians, right, So not only like

885
00:55:40,040 --> 00:55:43,520
Speaker 1: by the definition of terroist organizations are terrorist organizations. So

886
00:55:43,719 --> 00:55:45,960
Speaker 1: even if that's what we believe, and let's just say

887
00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:48,800
Speaker 1: that that's you know, we accept and agreed that that's

888
00:55:49,560 --> 00:55:55,839
Speaker 1: what Hamas is. I think it's important to understand that

889
00:55:57,320 --> 00:56:01,560
Speaker 1: terrorist organizations have become political organisations time and time again,

890
00:56:02,120 --> 00:56:05,920
Speaker 1: and I think that it's also important to understand historically,

891
00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:12,319
Speaker 1: the Hamas as an entity. Again, I remind you was

892
00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:16,360
Speaker 1: created and partially created and funded by the State of Israel,

893
00:56:16,880 --> 00:56:19,920
Speaker 1: emboldened by the State of Israel. Because I want to

894
00:56:19,960 --> 00:56:22,920
Speaker 1: be very clear, up until the nineties, right Alslo accord

895
00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:25,839
Speaker 1: to the peace process. People say, oh, the Palestinians didn't

896
00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:28,399
Speaker 1: want peace. To your point earlier, the Palestinians were willing

897
00:56:28,440 --> 00:56:32,839
Speaker 1: to take almost anything. At that point, Arafat, who was

898
00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:36,880
Speaker 1: considered a terrorist before he became a statesman, right, was

899
00:56:37,360 --> 00:56:42,400
Speaker 1: on the table with Robin had an agreement in place. Okay,

900
00:56:43,040 --> 00:56:45,920
Speaker 1: and then people don't know. If you're not a scholar

901
00:56:45,920 --> 00:56:49,560
Speaker 1: and you don't know, you should know. Oh Goldstein, an

902
00:56:49,600 --> 00:56:53,680
Speaker 1: Israeli terrorist, came in to a mosque. I believe it

903
00:56:53,719 --> 00:56:56,920
Speaker 1: was in Hebron, I don't remember exactly, and he killed

904
00:56:57,320 --> 00:57:01,680
Speaker 1: more than thirty people during prayer in discriminately shot innocent

905
00:57:01,719 --> 00:57:03,960
Speaker 1: people in a monsque. So the biggest, one of the

906
00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:09,560
Speaker 1: biggest tragedies. Right, and then he was he was not

907
00:57:09,680 --> 00:57:13,640
Speaker 1: only did they the response, you know, Raben's response to

908
00:57:13,680 --> 00:57:19,320
Speaker 1: that was it was locking down Hebron Palestinians in Hebron,

909
00:57:19,760 --> 00:57:22,280
Speaker 1: so because he was fearful of what the Palestinians would

910
00:57:22,280 --> 00:57:27,240
Speaker 1: do in retaliation. The immediate response by Rabine was locking

911
00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:32,720
Speaker 1: down the people of Hebron, okay, instead of going and

912
00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:36,280
Speaker 1: doing something about the settlers that committed the crime or

913
00:57:36,440 --> 00:57:39,080
Speaker 1: that emboldened the person committing the crime. That's number one.

914
00:57:39,160 --> 00:57:44,880
Speaker 1: Number two, that sparked the retaliation because when people don't

915
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:47,600
Speaker 1: have justice, they take justice in their own hands. So

916
00:57:47,640 --> 00:57:53,600
Speaker 1: that sparked this series of attacks in Israel, right, devastating

917
00:57:53,600 --> 00:57:56,720
Speaker 1: attacks in Israel. But it was that that did that,

918
00:57:56,840 --> 00:57:58,920
Speaker 1: And it was his He could have he could have

919
00:57:58,960 --> 00:58:02,040
Speaker 1: handled that differently, but he and right and and and

920
00:58:02,120 --> 00:58:07,080
Speaker 1: that was what sparked the response. Then in turn, okay

921
00:58:07,800 --> 00:58:14,400
Speaker 1: again who putting that aside? Right? And and sorry, little tidbit.

922
00:58:14,760 --> 00:58:21,800
Speaker 1: His grave m HM Cochtain's grave is guarded by the

923
00:58:21,840 --> 00:58:26,240
Speaker 1: IDF as some and many many many consider him a

924
00:58:26,280 --> 00:58:28,000
Speaker 1: national hero. Yeah.

925
00:58:28,000 --> 00:58:30,479
Speaker 2: I've seen photos of people like crying at his grave

926
00:58:30,560 --> 00:58:33,280
Speaker 2: like it's yes, save their family or something. When he's

927
00:58:33,320 --> 00:58:35,000
Speaker 2: not just when you literally just like went to a

928
00:58:35,040 --> 00:58:38,320
Speaker 2: mosque with a gun and shot thirty people who were

929
00:58:38,360 --> 00:58:39,240
Speaker 2: fucking praying.

930
00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:41,400
Speaker 1: Yes, and that's right.

931
00:58:41,520 --> 00:58:43,520
Speaker 2: When people are idolizing exactly.

932
00:58:43,560 --> 00:58:45,600
Speaker 1: It's rotten to its core, is my point. This is

933
00:58:45,640 --> 00:58:48,920
Speaker 1: what you're supporting when you support the state of Israel. Okay,

934
00:58:49,040 --> 00:58:50,840
Speaker 1: this is part of part of this is part of

935
00:58:50,840 --> 00:58:55,560
Speaker 1: what you're supporting. Now, taking a second step, Robin was

936
00:58:55,600 --> 00:59:03,560
Speaker 1: assassinated by a Jewish Israeli, not by Palestinian. Even in

937
00:59:03,600 --> 00:59:06,040
Speaker 1: spite of everything, the peace process was still going on

938
00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:11,800
Speaker 1: because they did everything to foil it, right, and then

939
00:59:11,840 --> 00:59:16,560
Speaker 1: they assassinated the Israeli Prime minister. And ever since then,

940
00:59:16,920 --> 00:59:20,360
Speaker 1: Right then you had Ariel's your own and whatever that

941
00:59:20,440 --> 00:59:23,320
Speaker 1: tried to continue a peace process and you know, some capacity.

942
00:59:23,480 --> 00:59:25,400
Speaker 1: But ever since then, for the last twenty three years,

943
00:59:26,200 --> 00:59:29,200
Speaker 1: no one has been talking about a peace process. They blamed,

944
00:59:29,760 --> 00:59:33,640
Speaker 1: they blamed the Palestinians for every act of resistance. They

945
00:59:33,640 --> 00:59:36,960
Speaker 1: don't listen. They believe that they talk the way that

946
00:59:37,400 --> 00:59:45,760
Speaker 1: politicians discussed the Palestinian kind of oppression is managing the occupation, okay,

947
00:59:46,280 --> 00:59:49,720
Speaker 1: managing oppomission. No one's talking about peace, not left left,

948
00:59:49,760 --> 00:59:52,080
Speaker 1: pseudo left, whatever you want to call it, not liberal

949
00:59:52,160 --> 00:59:56,040
Speaker 1: Zionis left or center or right. No one is talking

950
00:59:56,080 --> 01:00:00,520
Speaker 1: about peace. No one is talking about any semblance of Pea.

951
01:00:01,040 --> 01:00:03,920
Speaker 1: I find it very particular, right, and this is my

952
01:00:04,200 --> 01:00:06,200
Speaker 1: this is why I'm saying we live in the twilight zone.

953
01:00:07,720 --> 01:00:13,840
Speaker 1: That Donald Trump's four years in office, Okay, he had

954
01:00:13,920 --> 01:00:18,080
Speaker 1: Kushner that say, what all the bad things right about

955
01:00:18,080 --> 01:00:21,920
Speaker 1: his about his behavior. He was trying to through normalization

956
01:00:22,000 --> 01:00:23,520
Speaker 1: deals with their world, trying to get a deal for

957
01:00:23,560 --> 01:00:28,600
Speaker 1: the Palestinian people, albeit the most absurd sort of deal

958
01:00:28,640 --> 01:00:31,680
Speaker 1: if you ever read what the Abraham Accords actually entailed,

959
01:00:31,720 --> 01:00:35,280
Speaker 1: right like weird like highways and weird, right like not

960
01:00:35,480 --> 01:00:38,480
Speaker 1: a deal that anyone should have accepted. But putting that aside,

961
01:00:39,280 --> 01:00:43,000
Speaker 1: he was talking about it. There was discussion, there was

962
01:00:43,080 --> 01:00:47,080
Speaker 1: Palestinian like the word Palestinian was being said by the

963
01:00:47,120 --> 01:00:50,120
Speaker 1: Office of the President. In the last four years that

964
01:00:50,160 --> 01:00:53,840
Speaker 1: Biden was in office. No one said anything, no one

965
01:00:53,880 --> 01:00:56,400
Speaker 1: did anything to advanced piece. No one even brought a

966
01:00:56,400 --> 01:01:00,520
Speaker 1: bogus deal like darreed Kushner to the table. Don't make

967
01:01:00,560 --> 01:01:04,480
Speaker 1: it make sense. I don't understand. They basically bought into

968
01:01:05,960 --> 01:01:10,680
Speaker 1: the Zionist idea that we can just live, continue living

969
01:01:11,160 --> 01:01:15,280
Speaker 1: while millions of people are being oppressed and occupied. This

970
01:01:15,400 --> 01:01:17,160
Speaker 1: is the Democratic Party, and that's why we see the

971
01:01:17,200 --> 01:01:20,960
Speaker 1: media now the way it is because they're controlling the

972
01:01:20,960 --> 01:01:25,200
Speaker 1: media narrative too, right, So open your eyes, see it

973
01:01:25,240 --> 01:01:28,320
Speaker 1: for what it is, right, don't get cloud don't let

974
01:01:28,360 --> 01:01:33,160
Speaker 1: your judgment get clouded by this. Two side bs aspect

975
01:01:33,760 --> 01:01:38,600
Speaker 1: hold space for the killing of innocent civilians, including the

976
01:01:38,680 --> 01:01:43,960
Speaker 1: killing of Israeli innocent civilians, while simultaneously understanding that this

977
01:01:44,120 --> 01:01:48,800
Speaker 1: is all because of the aggression of colonialism and specifically

978
01:01:48,880 --> 01:01:53,440
Speaker 1: the perpetuation of the Zionist project as a colonialist, nationalist

979
01:01:54,080 --> 01:01:57,880
Speaker 1: ethno state. And that is what I ask of you

980
01:01:57,920 --> 01:02:02,520
Speaker 1: guys to do, right, Yeah, thank.

981
01:02:02,360 --> 01:02:06,000
Speaker 2: You for that. That's I think a great place to end.

982
01:02:06,800 --> 01:02:11,320
Speaker 2: Thank you again for joining me. You are just as

983
01:02:11,360 --> 01:02:14,640
Speaker 2: your Palestinian friends said in that message. Your voice is

984
01:02:14,640 --> 01:02:17,920
Speaker 2: really critical because people will more likely listen to you

985
01:02:18,200 --> 01:02:21,640
Speaker 2: than to a Palestinian. So I very much thank you

986
01:02:21,680 --> 01:02:27,520
Speaker 2: for your activism. And I don't know, it's we're not

987
01:02:27,800 --> 01:02:31,960
Speaker 2: living in a just world and so we just have

988
01:02:32,000 --> 01:02:34,240
Speaker 2: to stick together. I also want to mention the other

989
01:02:34,280 --> 01:02:37,080
Speaker 2: reason why social media is so important. It's like one

990
01:02:37,720 --> 01:02:39,880
Speaker 2: there's a reason they cut electricity to Gaza. They don't

991
01:02:39,920 --> 01:02:42,040
Speaker 2: want anything coming out of there. They want them to

992
01:02:42,080 --> 01:02:45,440
Speaker 2: die in a blackout and two they are literally arresting

993
01:02:45,440 --> 01:02:50,200
Speaker 2: people for following Palestinian accounts. Now yeah, so I mean,

994
01:02:50,240 --> 01:02:52,760
Speaker 2: if that's not totalitarianism, like what the fuck is? I

995
01:02:52,760 --> 01:02:58,720
Speaker 2: don't But anyway, so that's it for today. I can't.

996
01:02:58,720 --> 01:03:02,320
Speaker 2: I don't think it can do anymore. But again, I'll

997
01:03:02,360 --> 01:03:05,680
Speaker 2: put some sources in the description to donate to to

998
01:03:05,800 --> 01:03:08,840
Speaker 2: keep raising awareness. If you have people in your circles

999
01:03:08,840 --> 01:03:13,440
Speaker 2: that are still hesitant about having a stance on this, like,

1000
01:03:13,600 --> 01:03:17,320
Speaker 2: have conversations. It shouldn't be complicated. It really shouldn't, because

1001
01:03:17,320 --> 01:03:19,680
Speaker 2: it's not. And that's all. That's all I have.

1002
01:03:19,880 --> 01:03:23,240
Speaker 1: So thanks everybody, Thank you for having me.

1003
01:03:27,800 --> 01:03:30,280
Speaker 2: It Could Happen here as a production of cool Zone Media.

1004
01:03:30,360 --> 01:03:33,040
Speaker 2: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

1005
01:03:33,080 --> 01:03:35,320
Speaker 2: cool zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the

1006
01:03:35,320 --> 01:03:38,800
Speaker 2: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

1007
01:03:39,320 --> 01:03:41,440
Speaker 2: You can find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated

1008
01:03:41,520 --> 01:03:45,560
Speaker 2: monthly at cool zonemedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.