1 00:00:04,038 --> 00:00:07,358 Speaker 1: The Book of Joe Podcast is a production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:12,198 --> 00:00:15,358 Speaker 1: Hey there, welcome back to the latest edition of the 3 00:00:15,438 --> 00:00:18,518 Speaker 1: Book of Joe Podcast with Me, Tom Berducci, and of 4 00:00:18,558 --> 00:00:22,038 Speaker 1: course Joe Madden and Joe. Before I before we get 5 00:00:22,118 --> 00:00:25,558 Speaker 1: to our special guest this week, I still have to 6 00:00:25,598 --> 00:00:29,718 Speaker 1: ask you about your experience playing in the celebrity pro 7 00:00:29,918 --> 00:00:33,438 Speaker 1: am at the PGA Valspar event. In fact, I think 8 00:00:33,438 --> 00:00:35,718 Speaker 1: that's where you ran into our guests. But you gotta 9 00:00:35,798 --> 00:00:38,318 Speaker 1: tell me what it was like standing on the first 10 00:00:38,398 --> 00:00:41,358 Speaker 1: team playing in front of a gallery of Alan Camber. 11 00:00:41,358 --> 00:00:44,518 Speaker 1: It's five people, that's pressure. Well, first of all, we 12 00:00:44,558 --> 00:00:46,958 Speaker 1: started the day before at Old Memorial and our group 13 00:00:46,998 --> 00:00:50,718 Speaker 1: one that particular segment I was with Goose Gossage and 14 00:00:50,758 --> 00:00:52,958 Speaker 1: even though Goose walks on the side of his foot, 15 00:00:52,998 --> 00:00:55,558 Speaker 1: this guy hits the golf ball really well. And then 16 00:00:55,598 --> 00:00:57,718 Speaker 1: there was We were a six sem and the other 17 00:00:57,718 --> 00:01:00,638 Speaker 1: guys were Green Berets and Navy Seals. We had a 18 00:01:00,678 --> 00:01:03,678 Speaker 1: great time. The next day, Monday, we go to Valspar 19 00:01:03,998 --> 00:01:07,678 Speaker 1: playing with Ben Griffin and a couple other dudes and yeah, 20 00:01:07,718 --> 00:01:09,878 Speaker 1: you're right. First team we get up there, I get 21 00:01:09,878 --> 00:01:12,158 Speaker 1: no warm ups because they couldn't find me a caddy, 22 00:01:12,198 --> 00:01:14,038 Speaker 1: so I'm hanging out, hanging out. Then we get up 23 00:01:14,078 --> 00:01:16,038 Speaker 1: to the first team. They said, mister Mann, you hit first, 24 00:01:16,478 --> 00:01:18,958 Speaker 1: So I did, and I did. I did split the 25 00:01:18,958 --> 00:01:23,078 Speaker 1: fairway started out slowly, but eventually on number fourteen from 26 00:01:23,078 --> 00:01:25,878 Speaker 1: eighty five yards put in fifty four degree wedge right 27 00:01:25,918 --> 00:01:28,998 Speaker 1: in and I birdied from fifty four yards eighty four 28 00:01:29,038 --> 00:01:31,798 Speaker 1: yards out. That was kind of cool. Experience was great, 29 00:01:32,078 --> 00:01:35,358 Speaker 1: Ben was wonderful. It was. It's all of that. And 30 00:01:35,398 --> 00:01:37,638 Speaker 1: the golf course is tough, just like that you saw 31 00:01:37,638 --> 00:01:39,838 Speaker 1: a TV. They were only like ten hundred parts something 32 00:01:39,878 --> 00:01:42,198 Speaker 1: for four days. But it was a great experience for me. 33 00:01:42,278 --> 00:01:45,678 Speaker 1: It really was. Well, that's awesome. And am I right? 34 00:01:45,718 --> 00:01:47,958 Speaker 1: Did you run into the great umpire? Phil? Cuz either 35 00:01:48,678 --> 00:01:51,238 Speaker 1: not there. It was actually I was over at eas 36 00:01:51,318 --> 00:01:54,238 Speaker 1: La day Sould the other golf course in Saint Pete 37 00:01:54,238 --> 00:01:57,478 Speaker 1: there and that was with Michael Stewart, my partner from AVA, 38 00:01:57,598 --> 00:02:00,718 Speaker 1: and I'm standing there. All of a sudden turnaround, Phil 39 00:02:00,758 --> 00:02:03,398 Speaker 1: walks up. We both see each other simultaneously, gave a 40 00:02:03,398 --> 00:02:06,638 Speaker 1: big hug, and then we I just started talking about 41 00:02:06,678 --> 00:02:08,678 Speaker 1: different things and I mentioned that we have a podcast. 42 00:02:08,678 --> 00:02:10,638 Speaker 1: He said, be happy to do it. I said, damn, 43 00:02:10,638 --> 00:02:13,198 Speaker 1: that's perfect. That's when I texted you right after that, 44 00:02:13,278 --> 00:02:16,238 Speaker 1: and here we are today. So Phil was actually playing 45 00:02:16,278 --> 00:02:18,878 Speaker 1: that day and he would run on the driving range 46 00:02:18,878 --> 00:02:21,718 Speaker 1: and that's how this all happened today. Well, let's welcome 47 00:02:21,758 --> 00:02:25,678 Speaker 1: in Phil, Phil Cuzzy please, if I did the math right, Phil, 48 00:02:25,758 --> 00:02:28,198 Speaker 1: I think this is what you're number twenty eight for 49 00:02:28,278 --> 00:02:32,038 Speaker 1: you as a major league umpire. Yeah, well twenty five 50 00:02:32,118 --> 00:02:35,238 Speaker 1: hundred contract. Yeah, but going up and down for a 51 00:02:35,238 --> 00:02:40,798 Speaker 1: couple of years. But don't ask me where the time went. Yeah, 52 00:02:39,478 --> 00:02:42,918 Speaker 1: it's it's crazy. Blink your eye and here we are. 53 00:02:43,278 --> 00:02:45,438 Speaker 1: I thought it'd be great as well to have you on, Phil, 54 00:02:45,518 --> 00:02:49,318 Speaker 1: because you're not just a great umpire and a great storyteller. 55 00:02:49,398 --> 00:02:53,078 Speaker 1: But my goodness, the changes that umpires are going to 56 00:02:53,158 --> 00:02:54,878 Speaker 1: go through this year. You're getting a little bit of 57 00:02:54,918 --> 00:02:57,198 Speaker 1: a taste of it here and spring training without the 58 00:02:57,198 --> 00:03:00,398 Speaker 1: new rules, with especially in regard to the pitch clock, 59 00:03:01,038 --> 00:03:03,878 Speaker 1: the arbiters of the game to me, have more response 60 00:03:04,118 --> 00:03:07,438 Speaker 1: ability that they've ever had. Four fill So give me 61 00:03:07,638 --> 00:03:10,598 Speaker 1: umpires perspective on what spring training has been like so far. 62 00:03:11,118 --> 00:03:13,918 Speaker 1: Spring training this year, you know, usually we come down 63 00:03:13,958 --> 00:03:16,238 Speaker 1: and it's it's to shake the rust off. But this 64 00:03:16,318 --> 00:03:20,918 Speaker 1: has been a complete learning experience because with all the changes, 65 00:03:21,318 --> 00:03:24,518 Speaker 1: and you know, I was I was driving to a 66 00:03:24,518 --> 00:03:26,438 Speaker 1: game the other day and I happened to flip on 67 00:03:26,558 --> 00:03:31,918 Speaker 1: the radio MLB Network radio, and I don't know who 68 00:03:31,958 --> 00:03:35,518 Speaker 1: who the guys were, they were obviously two former players, 69 00:03:35,918 --> 00:03:38,198 Speaker 1: and the first thing I heard them say was are 70 00:03:38,198 --> 00:03:40,758 Speaker 1: we putting too much on the umpires? But with all 71 00:03:40,758 --> 00:03:44,318 Speaker 1: that they have to do, and I said, okay, we're 72 00:03:44,358 --> 00:03:47,478 Speaker 1: finally getting a little bit of supportive people understanding. But 73 00:03:47,758 --> 00:03:52,078 Speaker 1: it's been I can't say it's as crazy as what 74 00:03:52,158 --> 00:03:54,998 Speaker 1: I thought it was going to be, because you know, 75 00:03:55,238 --> 00:03:58,478 Speaker 1: when we had our meetings, our annual meetings in Phoenix, 76 00:03:58,518 --> 00:04:01,438 Speaker 1: then we've had a couple of follow up phone calls. 77 00:04:01,438 --> 00:04:03,438 Speaker 1: We have another one tonight. As a matter of fact, 78 00:04:05,038 --> 00:04:09,558 Speaker 1: it sounds all so confusing and so detailed and complicated, 79 00:04:09,598 --> 00:04:12,038 Speaker 1: but of course it's like anything else. Once you actually 80 00:04:12,078 --> 00:04:15,438 Speaker 1: get on the field and start doing it, then you say, okay, 81 00:04:15,478 --> 00:04:18,558 Speaker 1: now it kind of all makes sense. But it is 82 00:04:18,598 --> 00:04:22,438 Speaker 1: a lot. But the early return, at least for me, 83 00:04:22,638 --> 00:04:26,118 Speaker 1: is it's worth it. Because the pace of the game 84 00:04:26,278 --> 00:04:32,358 Speaker 1: has been beautiful, magnificent and having said that, the game 85 00:04:32,398 --> 00:04:36,158 Speaker 1: I had yesterday Phillies and Baltimore, it was a three 86 00:04:36,318 --> 00:04:40,038 Speaker 1: twenty game time. So but the way I look at 87 00:04:40,078 --> 00:04:41,838 Speaker 1: it is if there was no clock, it probably would 88 00:04:41,838 --> 00:04:45,798 Speaker 1: have been over four hours. But my first two plate 89 00:04:45,878 --> 00:04:48,798 Speaker 1: jobs down here, my game times were two oh six 90 00:04:48,798 --> 00:04:52,278 Speaker 1: and two oh eight, So that's something that we're really 91 00:04:52,318 --> 00:04:55,518 Speaker 1: not used to, so it is worth the extra extra 92 00:04:56,278 --> 00:04:58,998 Speaker 1: work involved. My first question was going to be kind 93 00:04:58,998 --> 00:05:01,038 Speaker 1: of along those lines. I mean, how long has the 94 00:05:01,078 --> 00:05:03,758 Speaker 1: adjustment period to become comfortable with all this? You're kind 95 00:05:03,758 --> 00:05:06,238 Speaker 1: of answer it right now, but I felt the same way. 96 00:05:06,238 --> 00:05:08,278 Speaker 1: I mean, and I've talked to you guys actually on 97 00:05:08,318 --> 00:05:10,718 Speaker 1: the field with the different rule changes that have arrived 98 00:05:10,758 --> 00:05:12,438 Speaker 1: over the last couple of years, how long does it 99 00:05:12,478 --> 00:05:15,398 Speaker 1: take to be comfortable with the new rules? Because you 100 00:05:15,438 --> 00:05:17,438 Speaker 1: have so many other things to monitor during the course 101 00:05:17,438 --> 00:05:19,798 Speaker 1: of the game, especially like behind the plate, balls and 102 00:05:19,838 --> 00:05:22,438 Speaker 1: strikes of course, keeping track of what's going on, and 103 00:05:22,478 --> 00:05:24,478 Speaker 1: then we keep layering new things on you. And I 104 00:05:24,478 --> 00:05:26,958 Speaker 1: know you guys could handle it, but when how long 105 00:05:26,958 --> 00:05:29,878 Speaker 1: do you think it takes you'd actually become comfortable out there? 106 00:05:29,958 --> 00:05:32,238 Speaker 1: It's like, you know, when you're a player or a 107 00:05:32,278 --> 00:05:35,678 Speaker 1: manager in the dugout, sometimes you add new wrinkles to 108 00:05:35,718 --> 00:05:38,518 Speaker 1: what you're thinking about. New information comes into the dug out. 109 00:05:38,518 --> 00:05:40,998 Speaker 1: You're trying to track and follow other things, and you 110 00:05:41,038 --> 00:05:43,438 Speaker 1: have to develop a rhythm for the day. That's how 111 00:05:43,478 --> 00:05:45,798 Speaker 1: I feel. So how long do you think it takes 112 00:05:45,798 --> 00:05:47,798 Speaker 1: you to really developed that rhythm to stay on top 113 00:05:47,838 --> 00:05:50,718 Speaker 1: of all these new editions. Well, i'll tell you. You know, 114 00:05:50,758 --> 00:05:54,598 Speaker 1: my first game down here, I happen to have the plate. Okay, 115 00:05:54,638 --> 00:05:59,318 Speaker 1: So it was that was very uncomfortable because I found 116 00:05:59,318 --> 00:06:04,118 Speaker 1: myself it was in Tampa, and I found myself looking 117 00:06:04,158 --> 00:06:07,118 Speaker 1: at the clock that was, you know, over the pitcher's 118 00:06:07,158 --> 00:06:12,798 Speaker 1: shoulder in right center field, and I just I just 119 00:06:12,838 --> 00:06:15,318 Speaker 1: found myself staring at the clock, saying, okay, all right, 120 00:06:15,398 --> 00:06:17,198 Speaker 1: the batters in the box, you know, like I think 121 00:06:17,238 --> 00:06:20,878 Speaker 1: about the magic numbers, right like nine eight. The hitter 122 00:06:20,918 --> 00:06:23,158 Speaker 1: has to be ready at nine and the catcher has 123 00:06:23,198 --> 00:06:25,998 Speaker 1: to be ready by eight. And I found myself just 124 00:06:26,038 --> 00:06:28,118 Speaker 1: looking at the clock and I'm saying, oh, oh, you know, 125 00:06:28,158 --> 00:06:30,518 Speaker 1: I guess I have to call the pitch too. But 126 00:06:30,598 --> 00:06:35,038 Speaker 1: it was, you know, so I kind of wish that 127 00:06:35,158 --> 00:06:36,918 Speaker 1: my first game I would have been on the basis, 128 00:06:36,918 --> 00:06:40,118 Speaker 1: So I could have observed. But somebody's got to work 129 00:06:40,158 --> 00:06:43,398 Speaker 1: to play first, I guess. And but my second plate 130 00:06:43,478 --> 00:06:46,798 Speaker 1: job I did feel much more comfortable, and then my 131 00:06:46,878 --> 00:06:50,558 Speaker 1: third plate job I felt even more comfortable. So it's 132 00:06:50,598 --> 00:06:52,158 Speaker 1: just going to be a matter of time. And I 133 00:06:52,198 --> 00:06:54,438 Speaker 1: think that goes for the players as well. You know, 134 00:06:54,478 --> 00:06:57,078 Speaker 1: I'm always asking asking the players as well, you know, 135 00:06:57,158 --> 00:06:59,158 Speaker 1: how how's the timing going? And he said, well, if 136 00:06:59,278 --> 00:07:01,598 Speaker 1: you know, they usually say the same thing basically. At 137 00:07:01,598 --> 00:07:03,198 Speaker 1: first it was a little bit, but you know, now 138 00:07:03,198 --> 00:07:05,478 Speaker 1: we're kind of getting used to it. So I think 139 00:07:05,918 --> 00:07:09,238 Speaker 1: as time goes on and the season goes on, you know, 140 00:07:09,318 --> 00:07:12,118 Speaker 1: I think it's gonna be everyone has is going to 141 00:07:12,158 --> 00:07:16,918 Speaker 1: adjust to it. I think most have already, and like 142 00:07:16,998 --> 00:07:20,398 Speaker 1: I say, it's gonna be worth the extra effort. I 143 00:07:20,598 --> 00:07:22,758 Speaker 1: agree with that. It's just the rhythm of the whole 144 00:07:22,758 --> 00:07:25,278 Speaker 1: thing and the fact that your concentration is split. But 145 00:07:25,358 --> 00:07:27,958 Speaker 1: like you're saying, I agree, I can understand exactly what 146 00:07:27,958 --> 00:07:30,638 Speaker 1: you're saying. As more often that you do it, then 147 00:07:30,638 --> 00:07:33,198 Speaker 1: you're going to develop a rhythm to you know, seeing 148 00:07:33,238 --> 00:07:35,398 Speaker 1: the clock calling your game, seeing the clock calling your game, 149 00:07:35,438 --> 00:07:37,278 Speaker 1: having your conversation with the catcher, the things that you 150 00:07:37,398 --> 00:07:39,998 Speaker 1: normally do. But that's what people don't understand. I mean, 151 00:07:39,998 --> 00:07:41,678 Speaker 1: there is there's an adjustment period to all this. It 152 00:07:41,798 --> 00:07:44,918 Speaker 1: just doesn't happen overnight, doesn't happen in a vacuum. You 153 00:07:44,998 --> 00:07:47,518 Speaker 1: guys already are inundated with a lot of new things 154 00:07:47,518 --> 00:07:49,958 Speaker 1: over the last several years. So I was just curious 155 00:07:49,998 --> 00:07:52,518 Speaker 1: about that. You kind of you've definitely imagined the question, 156 00:07:52,598 --> 00:07:56,038 Speaker 1: and becoming comfortable is one thing, and then becoming confident 157 00:07:56,238 --> 00:07:58,798 Speaker 1: is another thing. That you actually get confident in yourself 158 00:07:58,798 --> 00:08:00,558 Speaker 1: so that it becomes like this, it's not like you 159 00:08:00,598 --> 00:08:03,558 Speaker 1: have to think about it. It just happens. Yeah, no, absolutely, 160 00:08:03,598 --> 00:08:06,558 Speaker 1: you know, with time and like anything else, you know, 161 00:08:07,118 --> 00:08:10,998 Speaker 1: any any time there's been new rule changes, it always 162 00:08:11,078 --> 00:08:14,838 Speaker 1: kind of falls on us, and you know, the players 163 00:08:14,878 --> 00:08:18,838 Speaker 1: adjust to it, but until they really do, it falls 164 00:08:18,878 --> 00:08:21,238 Speaker 1: on us. You know, the slide rule, slide rule at 165 00:08:21,238 --> 00:08:24,278 Speaker 1: home plate, the slide rule at second base. Uh, you know, 166 00:08:24,358 --> 00:08:28,038 Speaker 1: I mean we've had ejections early on when when these 167 00:08:28,118 --> 00:08:32,518 Speaker 1: changes occur, but you know, it's just you know, again 168 00:08:32,638 --> 00:08:35,438 Speaker 1: my first plate, jil you know, usually here's the first 169 00:08:35,558 --> 00:08:38,078 Speaker 1: first time I'm stepping on the field. This year, and 170 00:08:38,078 --> 00:08:39,798 Speaker 1: I've been around so I know a lot of the 171 00:08:40,318 --> 00:08:44,398 Speaker 1: veteran guys. I was afraid to even have conversation with 172 00:08:44,438 --> 00:08:46,798 Speaker 1: them as they come to the plate because I'm saying, 173 00:08:46,998 --> 00:08:48,918 Speaker 1: I don't want them to blame me for not being ready, 174 00:08:49,078 --> 00:08:52,758 Speaker 1: you know, to hit when the clock hits nine seconds, 175 00:08:52,758 --> 00:08:57,838 Speaker 1: eight seconds, you know. So it's an adjustment. But the 176 00:08:57,918 --> 00:09:00,398 Speaker 1: more we do it, I think, you know, and again 177 00:09:00,478 --> 00:09:03,398 Speaker 1: even you know, it's going fine now, and I think 178 00:09:03,398 --> 00:09:05,838 Speaker 1: there'll be a little adjustment as well when we when 179 00:09:05,838 --> 00:09:09,198 Speaker 1: we go for real start of the season. But again, 180 00:09:10,238 --> 00:09:12,358 Speaker 1: more than everyone does it, the more that everyone will 181 00:09:12,358 --> 00:09:14,998 Speaker 1: feel comfortable with it. That The only thing that I 182 00:09:15,078 --> 00:09:17,358 Speaker 1: got to is like, it's one thing being called out 183 00:09:17,438 --> 00:09:19,958 Speaker 1: on time because of time in a spring training game. 184 00:09:20,678 --> 00:09:23,718 Speaker 1: When when it actually happens in a regular season game, 185 00:09:24,078 --> 00:09:27,678 Speaker 1: being called out because of time and time and infringement, 186 00:09:28,158 --> 00:09:30,958 Speaker 1: what's that going to look like. I mean, they're still 187 00:09:30,998 --> 00:09:32,598 Speaker 1: you're still gonna get you guys gonna have to deal 188 00:09:32,638 --> 00:09:34,598 Speaker 1: with some kind of crazy stuff, I believe at that point, 189 00:09:34,678 --> 00:09:36,478 Speaker 1: especially if it happens in the ninth inning, especially if 190 00:09:36,478 --> 00:09:37,918 Speaker 1: it's the last out of the game, which is probably 191 00:09:37,918 --> 00:09:40,358 Speaker 1: gonna happen at some point. So there's a lot. There's 192 00:09:40,358 --> 00:09:43,078 Speaker 1: a lot there for you guys to have to absorb 193 00:09:43,358 --> 00:09:45,798 Speaker 1: and actually take the heat from it. You're gonna take 194 00:09:45,798 --> 00:09:47,918 Speaker 1: the heat from it. I know that's gonna happen, and 195 00:09:47,918 --> 00:09:49,598 Speaker 1: I know you guys have already discussed that, but I'm 196 00:09:49,598 --> 00:09:51,278 Speaker 1: curious to see how that all plays that I want 197 00:09:51,278 --> 00:09:53,718 Speaker 1: to believe. And of course, with the good spring training 198 00:09:53,758 --> 00:09:55,998 Speaker 1: which is going on now, the adjustments are being made 199 00:09:56,478 --> 00:10:00,158 Speaker 1: that people are going to react in season when these 200 00:10:00,238 --> 00:10:03,478 Speaker 1: rules are implemented as they have during spring training, and 201 00:10:03,478 --> 00:10:05,878 Speaker 1: I think that would be something that could be interesting 202 00:10:05,918 --> 00:10:09,638 Speaker 1: to follow. Yeah, no, I agree. And you know, like 203 00:10:09,718 --> 00:10:15,438 Speaker 1: I say, um, even even with violations now, player kind 204 00:10:15,438 --> 00:10:18,358 Speaker 1: of just smiles and he woes and it isn't that 205 00:10:18,358 --> 00:10:21,318 Speaker 1: they don't know. And when I've had, you know, violations 206 00:10:21,358 --> 00:10:23,478 Speaker 1: like you know, working the plate and then had like 207 00:10:23,518 --> 00:10:26,598 Speaker 1: a violation on a picture, and I'll kind of meet 208 00:10:26,678 --> 00:10:28,798 Speaker 1: him when he walks off the field just to say, hey, 209 00:10:28,838 --> 00:10:31,158 Speaker 1: I just want to make sure you understand, you understand 210 00:10:31,158 --> 00:10:34,118 Speaker 1: why you were you had the violation. And most of 211 00:10:34,118 --> 00:10:36,238 Speaker 1: the time they say yes. And I say the same 212 00:10:36,278 --> 00:10:38,278 Speaker 1: thing to the coaches and they say no, no, they 213 00:10:38,358 --> 00:10:41,358 Speaker 1: understand it's just a matter of getting used to. But 214 00:10:41,438 --> 00:10:44,118 Speaker 1: the end result, I think it's much better for the game. 215 00:10:44,238 --> 00:10:46,118 Speaker 1: Tommy before he gets back to this one point right 216 00:10:46,158 --> 00:10:48,318 Speaker 1: there with Phil's talking about it. To me, that's good. 217 00:10:48,318 --> 00:10:52,318 Speaker 1: I'mpiring the conversation, um, the communication with I mean, the 218 00:10:52,318 --> 00:10:55,198 Speaker 1: best umpires have ever been around are those that you 219 00:10:55,198 --> 00:10:57,838 Speaker 1: could have a real free and easy conversation about. You know, 220 00:10:57,838 --> 00:11:00,718 Speaker 1: you're gonna disagree, You're gonna go back and forth, and 221 00:11:00,838 --> 00:11:02,758 Speaker 1: you're gonna make your point. He's gonna make his point. 222 00:11:02,838 --> 00:11:05,478 Speaker 1: But the guy that you're able to talk to and 223 00:11:05,518 --> 00:11:07,918 Speaker 1: the guys that would do just exactly what Phil talked about, 224 00:11:07,958 --> 00:11:10,558 Speaker 1: come over to make sure everybody understands. That's a difference 225 00:11:10,598 --> 00:11:14,238 Speaker 1: maker right there. From a dugout perspective. As a manager 226 00:11:14,238 --> 00:11:17,598 Speaker 1: of the player's perspective, the communication. Nobody talks about that. 227 00:11:17,598 --> 00:11:20,318 Speaker 1: Every worried about everything else. But that's the part to me, 228 00:11:20,398 --> 00:11:22,438 Speaker 1: out of all the things that an umpire can possibly do, 229 00:11:22,438 --> 00:11:25,438 Speaker 1: whether judgment, balls and strikes, on the basis whatever, if 230 00:11:25,438 --> 00:11:27,918 Speaker 1: you could communicate with this guy you love having him 231 00:11:27,958 --> 00:11:30,358 Speaker 1: on the field. Yeah, that's a great point, Joe, and 232 00:11:30,838 --> 00:11:33,278 Speaker 1: it leads me to something I want our listeners to 233 00:11:33,318 --> 00:11:35,278 Speaker 1: know that when Phil was talking about the clock, and 234 00:11:35,318 --> 00:11:37,598 Speaker 1: I'm sure he's learned this, Phil, and you can correct 235 00:11:37,638 --> 00:11:39,718 Speaker 1: me here if I'm wrong, But the umpires do have 236 00:11:39,758 --> 00:11:41,838 Speaker 1: a pack on them which it gives them a what 237 00:11:42,038 --> 00:11:43,958 Speaker 1: is it a buzzer or some kind of a jolt 238 00:11:44,278 --> 00:11:46,438 Speaker 1: to know when the clock is running down and getting 239 00:11:46,438 --> 00:11:48,918 Speaker 1: to those periods of violations. So you don't literally have 240 00:11:48,998 --> 00:11:51,678 Speaker 1: to watch the clock. But Phil, it's sort of like 241 00:11:51,798 --> 00:11:55,558 Speaker 1: replay where you have to be literal with something when 242 00:11:55,598 --> 00:12:00,358 Speaker 1: you have these kind of parameters, these numbers here the clock. 243 00:12:00,478 --> 00:12:02,438 Speaker 1: You know, the clock doesn't care if you're a superstar 244 00:12:02,678 --> 00:12:04,718 Speaker 1: or twenty six guy in the team. Right, you have 245 00:12:04,758 --> 00:12:08,758 Speaker 1: to enforce the rules. But at the same time, I'm wondering, Phil, 246 00:12:08,878 --> 00:12:13,078 Speaker 1: how much leeway you have where common sense comes into play. 247 00:12:13,558 --> 00:12:15,558 Speaker 1: Whether you're in a big league ballpark now and the 248 00:12:15,558 --> 00:12:19,438 Speaker 1: pitcher has trouble hearing the pitch coom signals, whether the 249 00:12:19,438 --> 00:12:21,678 Speaker 1: batter has got something in his eye, whether the wind 250 00:12:21,718 --> 00:12:24,278 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you know, turns up some dust 251 00:12:24,278 --> 00:12:27,238 Speaker 1: in front of home play. How much of that is you, 252 00:12:27,318 --> 00:12:30,118 Speaker 1: as the humployed umpire running a game. How much leeway 253 00:12:30,198 --> 00:12:34,158 Speaker 1: do you have when it comes to violations. Yeah, when 254 00:12:34,518 --> 00:12:37,598 Speaker 1: if it's something legitimate like you just described, we have 255 00:12:37,798 --> 00:12:41,558 Speaker 1: complete control to be able to stop the clock and 256 00:12:41,638 --> 00:12:46,118 Speaker 1: reset the clock. It's it's when we think that a 257 00:12:46,198 --> 00:12:49,478 Speaker 1: player is trying to circumvent the rule, that's when we 258 00:12:49,558 --> 00:12:55,718 Speaker 1: would disregard a request for time and not reset the clock. 259 00:12:56,198 --> 00:13:00,638 Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean common sense, if there's something that's 260 00:13:00,638 --> 00:13:06,638 Speaker 1: going on, we can certain reset the clock. And you know, 261 00:13:07,358 --> 00:13:12,718 Speaker 1: the person who really is like the the FTC right, 262 00:13:12,798 --> 00:13:16,758 Speaker 1: the field time coordinator, he or she is really the 263 00:13:16,838 --> 00:13:19,598 Speaker 1: person who is we have to control. You know, we 264 00:13:19,638 --> 00:13:23,278 Speaker 1: have control over the game. But to have a good timer, 265 00:13:23,718 --> 00:13:26,278 Speaker 1: that's that's really the key to the game. When that 266 00:13:26,358 --> 00:13:29,118 Speaker 1: person knows when to start the clock, went to stop 267 00:13:29,158 --> 00:13:32,198 Speaker 1: the clock, went to reset the clock. That that's you know, 268 00:13:32,358 --> 00:13:35,758 Speaker 1: on a much simpler level, I equate it to a 269 00:13:35,758 --> 00:13:38,278 Speaker 1: good ball boy. You know, a good ball boy is 270 00:13:38,278 --> 00:13:41,838 Speaker 1: always looking at you and when when you signal him that, 271 00:13:42,158 --> 00:13:44,918 Speaker 1: you know, to bring out new baseballs. And when you 272 00:13:44,918 --> 00:13:47,358 Speaker 1: have a young kid that really is kind of uh, 273 00:13:47,398 --> 00:13:49,798 Speaker 1: you know, all struck by being out there and he's 274 00:13:49,838 --> 00:13:51,398 Speaker 1: kind of looking around the stands and you have to 275 00:13:51,478 --> 00:13:53,878 Speaker 1: keep looking into the dugout or looking into that area 276 00:13:53,958 --> 00:13:56,518 Speaker 1: to get a baseball. It makes the job more difficult. 277 00:13:56,718 --> 00:13:59,278 Speaker 1: That's a minor thing compared to what we're talking about 278 00:13:59,278 --> 00:14:02,678 Speaker 1: with the timer. So the key is going to be 279 00:14:03,238 --> 00:14:09,318 Speaker 1: how well these field coordinators at timers, the FTCs, how 280 00:14:09,398 --> 00:14:12,438 Speaker 1: well they do their job. But we do have discretion. 281 00:14:12,838 --> 00:14:14,678 Speaker 1: You've got a lot on your plate and no, by 282 00:14:14,718 --> 00:14:16,398 Speaker 1: the way, then you have to call that ninety two 283 00:14:16,398 --> 00:14:18,398 Speaker 1: mile an hour slider on the black, whether it's a 284 00:14:18,438 --> 00:14:22,718 Speaker 1: ball or strike. So the job. It's amazing how often 285 00:14:22,758 --> 00:14:25,118 Speaker 1: these guys are right. I don't think people understand how 286 00:14:25,198 --> 00:14:27,518 Speaker 1: good they are at what they do because the game 287 00:14:27,518 --> 00:14:30,758 Speaker 1: gets faster and faster. But the human eye can only 288 00:14:30,798 --> 00:14:33,478 Speaker 1: do so much. And by the way, some of our 289 00:14:33,518 --> 00:14:36,558 Speaker 1: listeners might be wondering, how do you become a major 290 00:14:36,598 --> 00:14:41,038 Speaker 1: league umpire? Well, you've got to hear Phil's story. We'll 291 00:14:41,038 --> 00:14:48,518 Speaker 1: be back with that next on the Book of Joe. 292 00:14:52,278 --> 00:14:54,478 Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Book of Joe podcast. Our guest 293 00:14:54,598 --> 00:14:57,798 Speaker 1: is major league umpire Phil Cuzzy. And Phil the past 294 00:14:57,878 --> 00:15:00,638 Speaker 1: of the Big leagues for players are many, I'm sure 295 00:15:00,678 --> 00:15:04,518 Speaker 1: they are for umpires. Yours is, let's say, even more 296 00:15:04,638 --> 00:15:08,198 Speaker 1: unique because you got a late start. Tell Us about 297 00:15:08,878 --> 00:15:11,718 Speaker 1: how you got this idea. I don't even want to 298 00:15:11,718 --> 00:15:13,358 Speaker 1: call it a bug at that point, but even the 299 00:15:13,398 --> 00:15:16,558 Speaker 1: idea of being a major league umpire. Well, you know, 300 00:15:16,598 --> 00:15:19,838 Speaker 1: my first job out of college, I was a school 301 00:15:19,838 --> 00:15:24,318 Speaker 1: teacher in Union, New Jersey, and uh, and I loved it. 302 00:15:24,398 --> 00:15:26,958 Speaker 1: I enjoyed it. It was I was in a great 303 00:15:26,998 --> 00:15:30,758 Speaker 1: school system. And I just had in my mind that 304 00:15:30,918 --> 00:15:33,078 Speaker 1: I didn't want as much as I enjoyed it, I 305 00:15:33,118 --> 00:15:35,438 Speaker 1: didn't want to be a teacher the rest of my life. 306 00:15:35,518 --> 00:15:40,558 Speaker 1: And that's no knock on the profession. And I said, um, 307 00:15:41,198 --> 00:15:43,638 Speaker 1: you know, I was young, I was at a school 308 00:15:43,638 --> 00:15:45,518 Speaker 1: I was, I was twenty one, twenty two years old, 309 00:15:46,158 --> 00:15:47,718 Speaker 1: and I said, I, you know, I don't want to 310 00:15:47,718 --> 00:15:51,198 Speaker 1: always have to have a summer job. And so, you know, 311 00:15:51,238 --> 00:15:53,718 Speaker 1: a friend of mine said, you know, you're you're kind 312 00:15:53,718 --> 00:15:57,238 Speaker 1: of personable and you'd probably be good in sales. So 313 00:15:58,158 --> 00:16:00,558 Speaker 1: I went into sales. And I worked for this company 314 00:16:00,678 --> 00:16:04,878 Speaker 1: at a Worcester, Massachusetts and it was computer accessories when 315 00:16:04,918 --> 00:16:08,198 Speaker 1: computers were kind of just coming into the fold. And 316 00:16:08,758 --> 00:16:10,678 Speaker 1: I said, all right, this is uh. You know, I 317 00:16:10,718 --> 00:16:13,398 Speaker 1: wanted to make more money and I did and I 318 00:16:13,598 --> 00:16:15,038 Speaker 1: was and I said, but you know, there has to 319 00:16:15,078 --> 00:16:18,798 Speaker 1: be something more exciting than than closing in order. And 320 00:16:18,838 --> 00:16:21,318 Speaker 1: I was at Yankee Stadium with my buddies one night, 321 00:16:21,438 --> 00:16:24,958 Speaker 1: and for whatever the reason, I just started watching the umpires. 322 00:16:24,958 --> 00:16:28,838 Speaker 1: I watched them rotate around the field, and you know something, 323 00:16:28,878 --> 00:16:31,038 Speaker 1: I just never you know, who goes to a game 324 00:16:31,078 --> 00:16:33,638 Speaker 1: and watches the umpires. But for some reason, I found 325 00:16:33,678 --> 00:16:37,198 Speaker 1: myself just watching what they were doing. And I said, now, 326 00:16:37,238 --> 00:16:40,678 Speaker 1: that would be a great job. And so one of 327 00:16:40,718 --> 00:16:42,078 Speaker 1: my buddies sitting next to me, said, you know, I 328 00:16:42,078 --> 00:16:44,318 Speaker 1: see in the back of the Sporting News there's advertisements 329 00:16:44,358 --> 00:16:48,718 Speaker 1: for the umpire schools. And so I wrote away. And 330 00:16:48,998 --> 00:16:51,278 Speaker 1: at the time it was Harry Wendelstadt School and Joe 331 00:16:51,278 --> 00:16:55,958 Speaker 1: Brinckman School, and Joe Brinckman put a brochure in the 332 00:16:55,998 --> 00:16:58,718 Speaker 1: mail and sent it to me, and Harry wrote a letter, 333 00:16:59,078 --> 00:17:02,158 Speaker 1: just you know, just the personalized letter. And I said, okay, 334 00:17:02,158 --> 00:17:04,598 Speaker 1: I'm going to go there. And I said, well, how 335 00:17:04,598 --> 00:17:08,278 Speaker 1: hard could this be. I've played baseball since Little League 336 00:17:08,718 --> 00:17:11,318 Speaker 1: and I know the game of baseball. And once I 337 00:17:11,358 --> 00:17:14,598 Speaker 1: got down to Daytona Beach and you know, went onto 338 00:17:14,638 --> 00:17:17,318 Speaker 1: the field, I realized I didn't know anything about baseball 339 00:17:17,558 --> 00:17:24,118 Speaker 1: from an umpire's perspective, and a real long story short. Uh, 340 00:17:24,158 --> 00:17:28,278 Speaker 1: you know, the school is offered for five weeks in January, 341 00:17:28,878 --> 00:17:32,678 Speaker 1: and if you don't make it, then you have to 342 00:17:32,798 --> 00:17:35,798 Speaker 1: if you have, you know, aspirations to go back, you 343 00:17:35,878 --> 00:17:37,998 Speaker 1: have to wait a full year. So in the meantime 344 00:17:38,038 --> 00:17:39,998 Speaker 1: you try to work as many games as you can, 345 00:17:40,358 --> 00:17:44,998 Speaker 1: high school, college, whatever you can do. And longer story short, 346 00:17:45,078 --> 00:17:48,718 Speaker 1: it took me four attempts at Umpire school. Now Joe 347 00:17:48,838 --> 00:17:51,158 Speaker 1: may be saying, well, I've seen him Umpire and I'm 348 00:17:51,198 --> 00:17:56,158 Speaker 1: not surprised the games to go through. Never even thought that, Phil, 349 00:17:57,158 --> 00:18:01,358 Speaker 1: But you know, so so I did. Tom you mentioned 350 00:18:01,358 --> 00:18:04,358 Speaker 1: I did get in late, and I did, and things 351 00:18:04,398 --> 00:18:07,838 Speaker 1: were going well, and I was progressing, and I got 352 00:18:07,878 --> 00:18:12,438 Speaker 1: to Triple A in in what four years? And and 353 00:18:12,478 --> 00:18:15,118 Speaker 1: then uh, I was in Triple A for three years 354 00:18:15,478 --> 00:18:19,078 Speaker 1: and nothing was going on until the day I was 355 00:18:19,118 --> 00:18:24,118 Speaker 1: in Louisville and unbeknownst to us, Al Barlack was in 356 00:18:24,158 --> 00:18:26,958 Speaker 1: the stands and we walked in after the game and 357 00:18:27,398 --> 00:18:30,518 Speaker 1: I had to plate that day, and Barlack said to me, 358 00:18:31,518 --> 00:18:34,278 Speaker 1: where have you been hiding? And I said, I've been 359 00:18:34,318 --> 00:18:37,038 Speaker 1: here just waiting for you alt and he said, well, 360 00:18:37,078 --> 00:18:38,918 Speaker 1: I'm gonna, I'm gonna and he was supervisor for the 361 00:18:38,958 --> 00:18:42,518 Speaker 1: National League at the time, and um, he said, you know, 362 00:18:42,558 --> 00:18:44,398 Speaker 1: I'm gonna. I'm gonna have the National League take you 363 00:18:44,438 --> 00:18:47,558 Speaker 1: to spring training. And for those that don't realize that, 364 00:18:47,558 --> 00:18:51,038 Speaker 1: that's the first step in an umpire's career towards the 365 00:18:51,078 --> 00:18:53,478 Speaker 1: big leagues is you go through the minor leagues and 366 00:18:53,518 --> 00:18:56,438 Speaker 1: then and back then it was you know, leagues were separated, 367 00:18:56,478 --> 00:19:00,358 Speaker 1: American National League, and that that's your first big step 368 00:19:00,478 --> 00:19:04,398 Speaker 1: is being invited to to major league spring training, supposed 369 00:19:04,438 --> 00:19:07,838 Speaker 1: to being assigned to a camp, minor league camp and 370 00:19:07,878 --> 00:19:11,198 Speaker 1: whatever teams come in that that's who you umpire four 371 00:19:11,718 --> 00:19:13,958 Speaker 1: and uh that so that was the first step. And 372 00:19:13,958 --> 00:19:18,278 Speaker 1: then after I think it was three years, we were 373 00:19:18,278 --> 00:19:22,758 Speaker 1: having expansion of Florida and Colorado. So that was going 374 00:19:22,798 --> 00:19:27,518 Speaker 1: to mean four additional jobs for umpires. Four new empires 375 00:19:27,598 --> 00:19:31,118 Speaker 1: would have to be hired, coupled with a couple of retirements, 376 00:19:31,278 --> 00:19:34,798 Speaker 1: there was going to be six jobs. And so you know, 377 00:19:34,878 --> 00:19:38,918 Speaker 1: leading up to that, um, you know, I thought I 378 00:19:38,918 --> 00:19:41,318 Speaker 1: was in a pretty good position to be one of 379 00:19:41,358 --> 00:19:46,718 Speaker 1: the six. And when I wasn't, then the following season, 380 00:19:47,118 --> 00:19:52,318 Speaker 1: I was released and I was devastated and wasn't sure 381 00:19:52,438 --> 00:19:54,998 Speaker 1: what I was going to do, and and I was 382 00:19:55,318 --> 00:20:01,718 Speaker 1: I was encouraged by by the umpires union. Uh, they 383 00:20:01,718 --> 00:20:03,678 Speaker 1: were going to try to get my job back because 384 00:20:03,678 --> 00:20:08,238 Speaker 1: they felt as though maybe I was released, you know, 385 00:20:08,678 --> 00:20:11,798 Speaker 1: without real good cause. But every year guys are released, right, 386 00:20:11,878 --> 00:20:18,438 Speaker 1: So it wasn't until it was three years later. I 387 00:20:18,518 --> 00:20:22,998 Speaker 1: was working at a hotel in New Jersey. My sister 388 00:20:23,158 --> 00:20:27,478 Speaker 1: was a chief concierge there and she said, listen, why 389 00:20:27,478 --> 00:20:30,158 Speaker 1: don't you come to work at the hotel. It's it's 390 00:20:30,358 --> 00:20:33,398 Speaker 1: holidays are coming and we need we need additional help. 391 00:20:34,038 --> 00:20:35,398 Speaker 1: I said, I don't really want to be in the 392 00:20:35,438 --> 00:20:38,958 Speaker 1: hotel business, and of course my Italian sister made me 393 00:20:38,998 --> 00:20:42,878 Speaker 1: feel guilty about it, so I took the job. And real, 394 00:20:42,958 --> 00:20:47,558 Speaker 1: long story short, I was trying to get my job back, 395 00:20:47,598 --> 00:20:51,198 Speaker 1: and who walks into the hotel one night after the 396 00:20:51,238 --> 00:20:55,118 Speaker 1: All Star Game in Philadelphia was Len Coleman, then National 397 00:20:55,158 --> 00:20:59,958 Speaker 1: League president, And it was just everything just aligned because 398 00:20:59,998 --> 00:21:03,118 Speaker 1: I had a letter in my pocket that I brought 399 00:21:03,198 --> 00:21:06,198 Speaker 1: to the hotel that was written I wrote it to 400 00:21:06,318 --> 00:21:09,598 Speaker 1: Lenn Coleman, just asking for a meeting and hopefully to 401 00:21:09,598 --> 00:21:11,238 Speaker 1: get my job back. And I brought it to the 402 00:21:11,278 --> 00:21:14,038 Speaker 1: hotel from my sister to proof read, and he was 403 00:21:14,118 --> 00:21:17,398 Speaker 1: in the hotel that day and I was able to 404 00:21:17,438 --> 00:21:19,998 Speaker 1: meet him and give him my letter, and he said, 405 00:21:19,998 --> 00:21:22,358 Speaker 1: I'll get back to you on this. And that's really 406 00:21:22,358 --> 00:21:25,478 Speaker 1: how I got back into the game. That resonates with me, 407 00:21:25,518 --> 00:21:27,998 Speaker 1: buddy too, because listen, I got kicked out too. I 408 00:21:28,078 --> 00:21:31,558 Speaker 1: was as a player, you're told your services are no 409 00:21:31,598 --> 00:21:33,838 Speaker 1: longer needed, and then you just try to get back 410 00:21:33,838 --> 00:21:35,598 Speaker 1: into game. Somehow. I was ready to give up on 411 00:21:35,638 --> 00:21:37,758 Speaker 1: my opportunities. I was going to go to Italy and play. 412 00:21:37,798 --> 00:21:39,118 Speaker 1: I had a chance to go play in Italy and 413 00:21:39,998 --> 00:21:42,878 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty at eighty one. But then all of a sudden, 414 00:21:42,958 --> 00:21:45,718 Speaker 1: Larry Hims comes back and offers me an opportunity to 415 00:21:45,718 --> 00:21:48,558 Speaker 1: go back as a minor league manager, scout and coach 416 00:21:48,558 --> 00:21:51,598 Speaker 1: with the Angels. But during this time, I mean, I'm 417 00:21:51,598 --> 00:21:54,358 Speaker 1: working in a home for juvenile delinquents. I'm working. I'm 418 00:21:54,358 --> 00:21:57,478 Speaker 1: making Hogi's, you know, I'm delivering Hogi's for third base lunchinette. 419 00:21:57,478 --> 00:21:59,118 Speaker 1: I'm mopping the floors. At the end of the day, 420 00:21:59,318 --> 00:22:01,918 Speaker 1: you do anything it takes and then you're like, you're 421 00:22:01,918 --> 00:22:03,798 Speaker 1: just like you, You're you're staying in touch and you're 422 00:22:04,358 --> 00:22:05,998 Speaker 1: I didn't have a letter in my pocket, but I 423 00:22:06,078 --> 00:22:10,118 Speaker 1: constantly kept bothering people that I knew because I want 424 00:22:10,118 --> 00:22:12,678 Speaker 1: it back in the game. So I read all this 425 00:22:13,078 --> 00:22:15,398 Speaker 1: before as we were recounting it. I was really impressed 426 00:22:15,438 --> 00:22:17,638 Speaker 1: with all that because these are the kind of things 427 00:22:17,678 --> 00:22:21,118 Speaker 1: people don't know understand. They see everybody sees finished products. 428 00:22:21,118 --> 00:22:23,558 Speaker 1: They'll see you on the field being a major league unpart, 429 00:22:23,598 --> 00:22:25,598 Speaker 1: but they don't know how you got there. And I 430 00:22:25,918 --> 00:22:28,398 Speaker 1: love that. I love the fact you didn't quit, the 431 00:22:28,438 --> 00:22:30,318 Speaker 1: fact that I guess you're a bartenders. Of course you're 432 00:22:30,318 --> 00:22:33,238 Speaker 1: a substitute teacher. I think it's an awesome story. And 433 00:22:33,278 --> 00:22:35,478 Speaker 1: in any case, how much of a fighter that you 434 00:22:35,518 --> 00:22:38,518 Speaker 1: are that you were released at your return. And I 435 00:22:38,558 --> 00:22:40,478 Speaker 1: really believe we need to call Hollywood on this one. 436 00:22:40,558 --> 00:22:42,358 Speaker 1: This is this is gonna be better than money boff. 437 00:22:42,358 --> 00:22:45,758 Speaker 1: They put it on the big screen. I love it, 438 00:22:45,798 --> 00:22:47,758 Speaker 1: I really do. I'm serious of it. I'm serious. I 439 00:22:47,798 --> 00:22:50,638 Speaker 1: love it well, I appreciate it. I just love that's 440 00:22:50,718 --> 00:22:53,958 Speaker 1: that Lenn Coleman story. Yeah, dude is writing a letter 441 00:22:53,998 --> 00:22:56,958 Speaker 1: to Len Coleman to get back into the game. And 442 00:22:57,158 --> 00:23:00,398 Speaker 1: who shows up at the hotel but Lenn Coleman Man. 443 00:23:00,478 --> 00:23:02,878 Speaker 1: I hope you bought a lottery ticket that day too, Phil, 444 00:23:02,958 --> 00:23:08,678 Speaker 1: But you know I don't mentioned school teacher, bartender, salesman. Obviously, 445 00:23:08,838 --> 00:23:11,358 Speaker 1: this is you found your calling being an umpire. So 446 00:23:12,038 --> 00:23:15,758 Speaker 1: after all these years, Phil, what is it about being 447 00:23:15,798 --> 00:23:18,478 Speaker 1: an umpire that you love the most? I mean there's 448 00:23:18,518 --> 00:23:22,078 Speaker 1: many things, you know, the camaraderie of being around the guys. 449 00:23:22,118 --> 00:23:25,318 Speaker 1: I've been blessed with great partners since the minor leagues. 450 00:23:25,878 --> 00:23:28,758 Speaker 1: But it's really just being a part of the game. 451 00:23:29,238 --> 00:23:32,278 Speaker 1: You know, it was a game as I'm sure you know, 452 00:23:32,358 --> 00:23:35,038 Speaker 1: both of you guys, with your love as a kid, 453 00:23:35,638 --> 00:23:38,118 Speaker 1: and just to be a not only just a part 454 00:23:38,158 --> 00:23:41,158 Speaker 1: of the game, but I mean really being the gatekeeper 455 00:23:41,198 --> 00:23:44,678 Speaker 1: of the game. I mean, you know, the integrity of 456 00:23:44,678 --> 00:23:48,118 Speaker 1: the game starts with us, and I'm proud of that. 457 00:23:48,518 --> 00:23:51,358 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, as Joe mentioned before, you know, 458 00:23:51,398 --> 00:23:54,998 Speaker 1: we disagree with players, and players always think that that 459 00:23:55,078 --> 00:23:57,398 Speaker 1: if you if you call them out on strikes, that 460 00:23:57,798 --> 00:24:00,278 Speaker 1: you did it on purpose. And you know I had 461 00:24:00,318 --> 00:24:01,918 Speaker 1: Tory Hunter not talk to me for a year. I 462 00:24:02,118 --> 00:24:03,798 Speaker 1: called him out on a strike and it was right 463 00:24:03,958 --> 00:24:06,158 Speaker 1: on the middle, and he thought that I was I 464 00:24:06,238 --> 00:24:09,358 Speaker 1: was trying to screw him, and uh. And a year 465 00:24:09,438 --> 00:24:10,838 Speaker 1: later he came up to me and said, you know, 466 00:24:11,078 --> 00:24:13,598 Speaker 1: I know it wasn't the case, and uh, you know, 467 00:24:14,198 --> 00:24:16,478 Speaker 1: I said, okay, of course not. But you know I 468 00:24:16,518 --> 00:24:19,358 Speaker 1: always said, and it's different now with replay, but when 469 00:24:19,358 --> 00:24:22,278 Speaker 1: a player gets mad that you call him out on 470 00:24:22,318 --> 00:24:24,518 Speaker 1: a pitch that wasn't a strike, or you miss a 471 00:24:24,518 --> 00:24:26,998 Speaker 1: play on the basis, and of course not replay fixes 472 00:24:26,998 --> 00:24:29,558 Speaker 1: all that, but you still don't want to miss him. 473 00:24:29,798 --> 00:24:33,198 Speaker 1: But they're angry, and a manager's angry. But I can 474 00:24:33,278 --> 00:24:36,918 Speaker 1: promise you that you're not more angry than I am 475 00:24:37,278 --> 00:24:39,118 Speaker 1: if I miss a play. And I'm speaking from my 476 00:24:39,158 --> 00:24:43,518 Speaker 1: colleagues as well, but it's just a it's just an 477 00:24:43,518 --> 00:24:46,678 Speaker 1: awesome position to be in. And I love my job. 478 00:24:46,718 --> 00:24:49,358 Speaker 1: And you know, people say, you know, how much long 479 00:24:49,398 --> 00:24:51,238 Speaker 1: are you gonna do it? And and I don't know, 480 00:24:51,398 --> 00:24:55,038 Speaker 1: because I just you know, if I didn't enjoy it, 481 00:24:55,438 --> 00:24:58,238 Speaker 1: if I if I dreaded, you know, having to be 482 00:24:58,278 --> 00:25:01,038 Speaker 1: at the airport every three days, I can pack it 483 00:25:01,078 --> 00:25:03,638 Speaker 1: in at any time. But as long as I still 484 00:25:03,718 --> 00:25:06,358 Speaker 1: enjoy joy it, it's just I just I just love 485 00:25:06,438 --> 00:25:08,038 Speaker 1: the game. I love being around that. I love being 486 00:25:08,078 --> 00:25:11,038 Speaker 1: around the guys, and you know, walking on the field, 487 00:25:11,598 --> 00:25:15,118 Speaker 1: you know, start the game. I mean, you know, we're 488 00:25:15,318 --> 00:25:17,558 Speaker 1: relieved and happy when we walk off the field. But 489 00:25:18,358 --> 00:25:20,958 Speaker 1: my favorite part of the day is walking onto the field. 490 00:25:21,238 --> 00:25:25,158 Speaker 1: And I just love that that It's awesome. I'm well said. 491 00:25:25,478 --> 00:25:27,438 Speaker 1: I guess I'm just curious because I've been around a 492 00:25:27,478 --> 00:25:29,078 Speaker 1: little bit now too, and I've been around a lot 493 00:25:29,118 --> 00:25:31,118 Speaker 1: of really good umpires. I believe, and I know you 494 00:25:31,198 --> 00:25:34,798 Speaker 1: have any particular umpire for you that's had the greatest 495 00:25:34,838 --> 00:25:37,398 Speaker 1: influence on your career, somebody that you might turn to, 496 00:25:37,518 --> 00:25:39,878 Speaker 1: somebody that gave you great advice, kind of a mentor. 497 00:25:40,158 --> 00:25:42,558 Speaker 1: Because I'm curious, I'm gonna have all these guys that 498 00:25:42,598 --> 00:25:44,798 Speaker 1: I think, I know that I believe we're really good 499 00:25:44,838 --> 00:25:47,478 Speaker 1: at it. I'm just curious from your perspective, who you got. 500 00:25:48,038 --> 00:25:52,638 Speaker 1: You know, one of my first mentors was was Frank Pulley. Okay, 501 00:25:52,918 --> 00:25:55,998 Speaker 1: and uh And like I said, I've been blessed to 502 00:25:56,078 --> 00:25:59,038 Speaker 1: be with great crew chiefs over the years, and I 503 00:25:59,078 --> 00:26:02,398 Speaker 1: always said that I think that that a good crew chief, 504 00:26:02,438 --> 00:26:05,798 Speaker 1: a strong crew chief, really especially in the early years 505 00:26:05,958 --> 00:26:09,638 Speaker 1: of an umpire's career really shapes you know who he 506 00:26:09,798 --> 00:26:12,398 Speaker 1: is and and how he goes about his business on 507 00:26:12,438 --> 00:26:15,598 Speaker 1: the field. But Jerry Crawford, certainly, I've worked with Jerry 508 00:26:15,638 --> 00:26:21,118 Speaker 1: for many years and Jerry was a was a great mentor. Um, 509 00:26:21,198 --> 00:26:24,358 Speaker 1: Joe West what was a great mentor. You know, if 510 00:26:24,518 --> 00:26:27,518 Speaker 1: if if I had a situation, Joe was the great 511 00:26:27,558 --> 00:26:31,038 Speaker 1: guy to call to for positioning on the field. And 512 00:26:31,598 --> 00:26:37,078 Speaker 1: Richie Garcia another guy great with with positioning. Um, you know, 513 00:26:37,278 --> 00:26:40,438 Speaker 1: if I miss a play, you know, and people don't understand, 514 00:26:40,678 --> 00:26:43,838 Speaker 1: you know, even with replay. People say, like people think, well, 515 00:26:43,918 --> 00:26:47,158 Speaker 1: replay all right, so the mistake is being fixed. Yes, 516 00:26:47,358 --> 00:26:49,878 Speaker 1: that that is the great part about replay. But it 517 00:26:49,918 --> 00:26:53,198 Speaker 1: doesn't we still beat ourselves up about missing a play. 518 00:26:53,438 --> 00:26:56,118 Speaker 1: And when I miss a play, you know, I'll look, 519 00:26:56,158 --> 00:26:58,158 Speaker 1: I'll look at the film and I'll say, you may 520 00:26:58,198 --> 00:27:00,318 Speaker 1: know why. Sometimes you just miss it because you miss it. 521 00:27:00,358 --> 00:27:03,398 Speaker 1: But sometimes you're moving, or sometimes you're out of position, 522 00:27:03,478 --> 00:27:06,438 Speaker 1: or sometimes you may be blocked by by a fielder. 523 00:27:06,758 --> 00:27:09,078 Speaker 1: Frank Pulley used to say, it show me where the 524 00:27:09,158 --> 00:27:11,078 Speaker 1: where the play is going to happen, and I'll tell 525 00:27:11,078 --> 00:27:13,518 Speaker 1: you where to stand. But it doesn't always happen that way. 526 00:27:13,638 --> 00:27:15,558 Speaker 1: Throw isn't always where it's supposed to be, and you 527 00:27:15,598 --> 00:27:17,878 Speaker 1: have to make an adjustment. But I'll look at it. 528 00:27:17,918 --> 00:27:20,798 Speaker 1: And and Richie Garcia was a great guy. Joe West 529 00:27:20,878 --> 00:27:22,398 Speaker 1: was a great guy for position him and say here, 530 00:27:22,558 --> 00:27:24,278 Speaker 1: look at this, look at this, look at my play, 531 00:27:24,398 --> 00:27:26,678 Speaker 1: and tell me what you think. Well, I think you're 532 00:27:26,678 --> 00:27:28,558 Speaker 1: too close to the player, or you know, I think 533 00:27:28,638 --> 00:27:31,678 Speaker 1: if you had two steps over, you moved and if 534 00:27:31,718 --> 00:27:33,638 Speaker 1: you stayed where you were that was, that was the 535 00:27:33,638 --> 00:27:36,918 Speaker 1: place to that you would have probably seen that play better. 536 00:27:37,398 --> 00:27:40,878 Speaker 1: So there were there were many guys, you know, over 537 00:27:40,918 --> 00:27:43,678 Speaker 1: the years. I worked with Bruce Freming, I worked with 538 00:27:43,758 --> 00:27:48,478 Speaker 1: Eddie Monocue, and everyone hasn't had a different technique and 539 00:27:48,878 --> 00:27:51,678 Speaker 1: and and you kind of pick and shoes what works 540 00:27:51,718 --> 00:27:55,078 Speaker 1: best for you. Sure your concept your concept about the 541 00:27:55,078 --> 00:27:57,038 Speaker 1: strong crew chief. I mean that's almost like having a 542 00:27:57,038 --> 00:28:00,198 Speaker 1: good manager, I guess within a group. Um, I just 543 00:28:00,518 --> 00:28:03,118 Speaker 1: never thought of it in those terms when you say 544 00:28:03,198 --> 00:28:05,798 Speaker 1: strong crew cheap. What kind of attributes do you get 545 00:28:05,838 --> 00:28:11,438 Speaker 1: from this guy? What makes an umpire really a strong 546 00:28:11,598 --> 00:28:15,518 Speaker 1: crew chief? I think a strong crew chief he doesn't 547 00:28:15,558 --> 00:28:18,158 Speaker 1: try to do too much. You know, I've seen like 548 00:28:18,398 --> 00:28:21,398 Speaker 1: young crew chiefs that feel as though their job is 549 00:28:21,438 --> 00:28:24,398 Speaker 1: to be in the middle of everything. And I think 550 00:28:24,398 --> 00:28:26,558 Speaker 1: a strong crew chief, like like I said, I worked 551 00:28:26,558 --> 00:28:29,358 Speaker 1: with Jerry Crawford for a lot of years. He would 552 00:28:29,398 --> 00:28:32,078 Speaker 1: let you, he would let you work and he would 553 00:28:32,118 --> 00:28:34,438 Speaker 1: be there if you needed him, but he was going 554 00:28:34,478 --> 00:28:36,718 Speaker 1: to see how you reacted to it, and then he 555 00:28:36,758 --> 00:28:39,278 Speaker 1: would he would tell you afterwards. He said, listen, you 556 00:28:39,318 --> 00:28:43,678 Speaker 1: know what you did was was was right. But and 557 00:28:43,758 --> 00:28:47,518 Speaker 1: he might you know, throw something in. But I think 558 00:28:47,558 --> 00:28:50,118 Speaker 1: a good crew chief, a strong crew chief lets his 559 00:28:50,238 --> 00:28:54,758 Speaker 1: crew work and do their thing and uh, and then 560 00:28:54,998 --> 00:28:59,798 Speaker 1: have discussions afterwards if if something wasn't quite right. And 561 00:29:00,198 --> 00:29:03,318 Speaker 1: as a learning experience, take advantage of the learning experiences 562 00:29:03,358 --> 00:29:08,158 Speaker 1: because every day we learned something, we can learn something new. Uh. 563 00:29:08,358 --> 00:29:12,678 Speaker 1: Sometimes we watch other guys and learn what not to do. 564 00:29:12,878 --> 00:29:17,478 Speaker 1: And you know, both are equally valuable. You're describing a 565 00:29:17,518 --> 00:29:19,718 Speaker 1: manager and his coaching staff pretty well right there. It's 566 00:29:19,758 --> 00:29:22,438 Speaker 1: it's really interchangeable stuff. You know, it's being a good 567 00:29:22,518 --> 00:29:24,198 Speaker 1: leader as being a good leader, and you're talking about 568 00:29:24,238 --> 00:29:28,598 Speaker 1: having someone's back, you're giving, you're empowering another umpires to 569 00:29:28,718 --> 00:29:31,918 Speaker 1: do their job. You're there watching I want to go sideways. 570 00:29:31,958 --> 00:29:33,718 Speaker 1: You're there to pick them up or give them advice. 571 00:29:33,758 --> 00:29:35,318 Speaker 1: And also when they do a great job, you want 572 00:29:35,318 --> 00:29:37,398 Speaker 1: to let them know that too. That's that's your confidence 573 00:29:37,478 --> 00:29:40,238 Speaker 1: level really rises. But it's no different. It's no different 574 00:29:40,238 --> 00:29:42,238 Speaker 1: than us in a dug out in the clubhouse. From 575 00:29:42,238 --> 00:29:44,798 Speaker 1: a manager perspective, to the to the coaching staff, and 576 00:29:44,838 --> 00:29:46,638 Speaker 1: even to the players. It's just to be there for 577 00:29:46,678 --> 00:29:49,838 Speaker 1: them when they need you. Otherwise, I really thought it's 578 00:29:49,838 --> 00:29:51,958 Speaker 1: always white to stay out of the way. And I 579 00:29:51,998 --> 00:29:54,318 Speaker 1: love the concept of doing simple better. I just talked, 580 00:29:54,318 --> 00:29:55,758 Speaker 1: you just said that. I mean they want to keep 581 00:29:55,758 --> 00:29:58,398 Speaker 1: it simplified at I mean, that's that's really a great explanation. 582 00:29:58,478 --> 00:30:00,878 Speaker 1: Fell I like that a lot, and there's a lot 583 00:30:00,878 --> 00:30:03,518 Speaker 1: of parallels to be drawn. Yeah, you know, I always 584 00:30:03,518 --> 00:30:06,158 Speaker 1: thought that that, Um, you know, a good manager or 585 00:30:06,198 --> 00:30:12,718 Speaker 1: a good coach is a good source for information, you know, 586 00:30:12,798 --> 00:30:15,558 Speaker 1: if if you can, if you do trust that person, 587 00:30:15,758 --> 00:30:17,878 Speaker 1: you know, just to ask, you know, like you know, 588 00:30:18,158 --> 00:30:22,518 Speaker 1: I I've asked managers, if I've asked players. I don't 589 00:30:22,518 --> 00:30:25,878 Speaker 1: care about the name, but just tell me why you 590 00:30:25,918 --> 00:30:29,278 Speaker 1: think an umpire, you know, I forget who was I 591 00:30:29,318 --> 00:30:31,558 Speaker 1: went up to and I said, uh, listen, you know 592 00:30:31,598 --> 00:30:33,238 Speaker 1: you're you're a good guy. I see you get along 593 00:30:33,278 --> 00:30:36,118 Speaker 1: pretty much with everybody. I said, um, I don't want 594 00:30:36,118 --> 00:30:38,238 Speaker 1: to name, but just tell me if there's if there's 595 00:30:38,238 --> 00:30:41,358 Speaker 1: an umpire that you don't like or don't get along with, 596 00:30:41,678 --> 00:30:44,558 Speaker 1: and tell me what the reason is and m and 597 00:30:44,638 --> 00:30:48,038 Speaker 1: the player said, well, you know, I really like most 598 00:30:48,078 --> 00:30:49,998 Speaker 1: of the guys. I think that I watched them. You know, 599 00:30:49,998 --> 00:30:53,198 Speaker 1: they seemed to work hard, but you know, everyone makes mistakes. 600 00:30:53,558 --> 00:30:56,638 Speaker 1: But I saw this one umpire. He was working home 601 00:30:56,638 --> 00:31:00,318 Speaker 1: plate and it was on a Sunday, and he started 602 00:31:00,358 --> 00:31:04,118 Speaker 1: tapping his wrist before the pitch and I said, this guy, 603 00:31:04,118 --> 00:31:06,078 Speaker 1: I just wants to quote pitches and get out of 604 00:31:06,118 --> 00:31:08,558 Speaker 1: there to catch the flight on Sunday on a getaway day. 605 00:31:08,718 --> 00:31:11,878 Speaker 1: And I said, well, let me ask you were the 606 00:31:11,998 --> 00:31:15,198 Speaker 1: runners on base and he said, well, yeah, I think 607 00:31:15,238 --> 00:31:17,718 Speaker 1: there was. And I said, well, you know that's our 608 00:31:17,758 --> 00:31:22,798 Speaker 1: signal for a time play and you know and he said, 609 00:31:23,198 --> 00:31:25,758 Speaker 1: oh yeah, I forgot. I didn't think about that. Oh yeah, 610 00:31:25,758 --> 00:31:28,758 Speaker 1: then there's nobody that's interesting that I don't like. So 611 00:31:28,838 --> 00:31:32,078 Speaker 1: he was using a signal that we have potential time 612 00:31:32,118 --> 00:31:35,918 Speaker 1: play that we would give the bat for thinking that 613 00:31:35,958 --> 00:31:38,078 Speaker 1: the guy just wanted to get out of there. So 614 00:31:38,758 --> 00:31:42,318 Speaker 1: but I do think that a manager a coach can 615 00:31:42,358 --> 00:31:46,198 Speaker 1: be a great tool just hearing from the other perspective, 616 00:31:46,438 --> 00:31:49,238 Speaker 1: you know, And I've asked the manager that question. They said, 617 00:31:49,518 --> 00:31:52,238 Speaker 1: you know, and I know, especially some of the old 618 00:31:52,238 --> 00:31:54,438 Speaker 1: school guys, they know you're gonna make a mistake. But 619 00:31:54,478 --> 00:31:56,518 Speaker 1: if they see you working hard, and they see you 620 00:31:56,598 --> 00:31:58,838 Speaker 1: working at your at your job, not that they're not 621 00:31:58,878 --> 00:32:00,438 Speaker 1: going to get mad, but they're gonna give you a 622 00:32:00,438 --> 00:32:03,558 Speaker 1: little bit more leeway because they know that you're human. 623 00:32:04,038 --> 00:32:08,558 Speaker 1: But as opposed to somebody who might not be working 624 00:32:08,598 --> 00:32:11,038 Speaker 1: as hard or had a manager to give me an 625 00:32:11,038 --> 00:32:13,038 Speaker 1: answer to that question, said, I don't like when I 626 00:32:13,038 --> 00:32:16,478 Speaker 1: see an umpire bait my players. That's reasonable, that's fair, 627 00:32:16,638 --> 00:32:20,478 Speaker 1: that's fair. All great points, all great points. Hey, we 628 00:32:20,518 --> 00:32:22,838 Speaker 1: are going to start our own pitch timer and take 629 00:32:22,878 --> 00:32:25,958 Speaker 1: a quick break and come right back with Phil. Cuzzy 630 00:32:25,998 --> 00:32:28,198 Speaker 1: wrapped things up with Phil, and I want to ask 631 00:32:28,278 --> 00:32:31,878 Speaker 1: him about a specific rule that is not even in 632 00:32:32,118 --> 00:32:34,758 Speaker 1: the rule book, which causes a lot of confusion back 633 00:32:34,798 --> 00:32:47,758 Speaker 1: in the flash. Here we go three two one, Hey, 634 00:32:47,798 --> 00:32:52,038 Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Book of Joe podcast with Phil Cuzzey. Phil, 635 00:32:52,078 --> 00:32:55,878 Speaker 1: when you were talking about positioning, it brought me back. 636 00:32:55,958 --> 00:32:58,718 Speaker 1: I actually umpired a spring training game. They would not 637 00:32:58,798 --> 00:33:01,158 Speaker 1: let me do the play, but I did do three 638 00:33:01,198 --> 00:33:03,598 Speaker 1: innings each at first, second, and third, and I went 639 00:33:03,638 --> 00:33:05,998 Speaker 1: through basic training, if you will, a few days with 640 00:33:06,078 --> 00:33:08,838 Speaker 1: some of the umpires, and boy did they stress the 641 00:33:08,878 --> 00:33:12,558 Speaker 1: importance of positioning. And I'll never forget the kind of 642 00:33:12,598 --> 00:33:15,478 Speaker 1: the imagery was like, you're a tripod, a camera on 643 00:33:15,478 --> 00:33:18,558 Speaker 1: a tripod. Get yourself set, get your eye set. You 644 00:33:18,598 --> 00:33:21,038 Speaker 1: don't want your head moving when you're making that call. 645 00:33:21,558 --> 00:33:25,118 Speaker 1: Whereas I think in most times in the NFL the NBA, 646 00:33:25,198 --> 00:33:26,958 Speaker 1: those guys are moving all the time. Makes it a 647 00:33:26,958 --> 00:33:29,958 Speaker 1: lot harder, you know. So I never forgot that imagery. 648 00:33:30,118 --> 00:33:33,118 Speaker 1: But I also thought about when you're on the baselines, 649 00:33:33,158 --> 00:33:37,278 Speaker 1: either first or third base, the checked swing. This causes 650 00:33:37,438 --> 00:33:42,758 Speaker 1: so much adjina with fans and players. And here's the trick. 651 00:33:42,798 --> 00:33:44,438 Speaker 1: I don't know if you use this fill, but this 652 00:33:44,478 --> 00:33:47,198 Speaker 1: is what I was taught. As the first or third 653 00:33:47,198 --> 00:33:49,758 Speaker 1: base umpire. You are on the chalk line and that's 654 00:33:49,798 --> 00:33:52,878 Speaker 1: sort of your guideline. You're looking down that line, and 655 00:33:52,918 --> 00:33:56,278 Speaker 1: if you see the barrel of the bat cross that line, 656 00:33:56,918 --> 00:34:00,158 Speaker 1: it's a good rule of thumb, not an absolute rule, 657 00:34:00,198 --> 00:34:03,638 Speaker 1: but a good rule of thumb to call swing or 658 00:34:04,598 --> 00:34:07,678 Speaker 1: so give me your window in terms of making that call, 659 00:34:07,718 --> 00:34:10,638 Speaker 1: which happened so fast, and it's so hard to call, 660 00:34:11,158 --> 00:34:14,438 Speaker 1: and usually somebody is going to be angry when someone 661 00:34:14,558 --> 00:34:17,798 Speaker 1: checks whether it's a swing or not. Check swings are 662 00:34:17,918 --> 00:34:21,398 Speaker 1: very difficult because you know the guys are so strong 663 00:34:21,678 --> 00:34:26,158 Speaker 1: now and Um, every any time that I've I've had 664 00:34:26,198 --> 00:34:30,558 Speaker 1: trouble as a plate umpire, uh calling a check swing 665 00:34:31,078 --> 00:34:33,998 Speaker 1: if IF IF I IF I if I called it 666 00:34:34,118 --> 00:34:37,438 Speaker 1: when the hitter did not go I found because I 667 00:34:37,478 --> 00:34:40,398 Speaker 1: called it too quick. And and that that goes to 668 00:34:40,558 --> 00:34:43,838 Speaker 1: any any base as well. You know, it's you know 669 00:34:43,878 --> 00:34:46,278 Speaker 1: the old umpire is saying, it ain't nothing until I 670 00:34:46,318 --> 00:34:50,238 Speaker 1: call it. But timing is is so important. But to 671 00:34:50,318 --> 00:34:54,078 Speaker 1: your point, you know, being a first or third base umpire, um, 672 00:34:54,318 --> 00:34:55,758 Speaker 1: you know, there are a lot of things that you hear, 673 00:34:55,918 --> 00:34:59,238 Speaker 1: like the chalk line. Did he did he break the 674 00:34:59,278 --> 00:35:03,478 Speaker 1: plane of the of the plate um? But you know 675 00:35:03,958 --> 00:35:07,518 Speaker 1: I kind of go by the the actual rule book 676 00:35:07,718 --> 00:35:11,398 Speaker 1: of definition, which did he make an attempt to swing. 677 00:35:11,998 --> 00:35:15,998 Speaker 1: And you know that that that's so broad and it 678 00:35:16,038 --> 00:35:19,118 Speaker 1: could be interpreted in so many different ways. But but 679 00:35:19,158 --> 00:35:22,758 Speaker 1: the check swings are tough. And you know when when 680 00:35:22,798 --> 00:35:26,278 Speaker 1: it's a right handed hitter, if I'm working first base, 681 00:35:26,758 --> 00:35:29,358 Speaker 1: every hitter looks like they go. The backside looks like 682 00:35:29,398 --> 00:35:31,958 Speaker 1: they go, and Joe you may you may remember this, 683 00:35:32,078 --> 00:35:34,398 Speaker 1: it was before me, but they I heard that they 684 00:35:34,398 --> 00:35:38,638 Speaker 1: experimented one year with the opposite guy calling the check swing, 685 00:35:39,078 --> 00:35:41,878 Speaker 1: and it looks like everyone goes, and so I think 686 00:35:41,878 --> 00:35:44,078 Speaker 1: they stopped out, but there were too many that were called. 687 00:35:44,598 --> 00:35:48,318 Speaker 1: But I just go by legitimately, do I think he 688 00:35:48,398 --> 00:35:51,478 Speaker 1: made an attempt and how far? But again, it's hard 689 00:35:51,518 --> 00:35:53,758 Speaker 1: because the guys are so strong and they could look 690 00:35:53,798 --> 00:35:56,678 Speaker 1: like they're taking a home run swing and they're strong 691 00:35:56,798 --> 00:35:59,598 Speaker 1: enough to stop the bat and so that's where the 692 00:35:59,598 --> 00:36:03,238 Speaker 1: timing comes in. This is one area I thought, because 693 00:36:03,438 --> 00:36:06,038 Speaker 1: I agree with you and Tommy this as a as 694 00:36:06,118 --> 00:36:08,518 Speaker 1: a manager, this causes me more, and I think I've 695 00:36:08,518 --> 00:36:11,358 Speaker 1: gotten kicked out more on this one particular play than 696 00:36:11,398 --> 00:36:14,398 Speaker 1: any This is where I like to see technology takeover. 697 00:36:14,478 --> 00:36:16,678 Speaker 1: This is one area that I don't think we've really experimented. 698 00:36:16,798 --> 00:36:20,838 Speaker 1: Enough with meaning, Why why can't we not embed a 699 00:36:20,958 --> 00:36:23,758 Speaker 1: chip in the head of every bat and somehow set 700 00:36:23,758 --> 00:36:25,398 Speaker 1: it up from the side. There's got to be a 701 00:36:25,438 --> 00:36:28,438 Speaker 1: line of demarcation from the side that if a bat 702 00:36:28,478 --> 00:36:30,878 Speaker 1: passes a certain or the head of the bat passes 703 00:36:30,918 --> 00:36:33,798 Speaker 1: a certain area, that it's easily called the strike. I 704 00:36:33,798 --> 00:36:36,718 Speaker 1: would like to see a little bit more experimentation or 705 00:36:36,758 --> 00:36:39,358 Speaker 1: thought put into that. And I thought that this, of 706 00:36:39,478 --> 00:36:42,678 Speaker 1: all the different plays, this is the most ambiguous, the 707 00:36:42,678 --> 00:36:45,718 Speaker 1: one that creates the most I think somebody just said, agina, 708 00:36:46,358 --> 00:36:48,958 Speaker 1: and I know from a manager's perspective, it does. It does. 709 00:36:48,998 --> 00:36:51,238 Speaker 1: It's tough. I got kicked out of playoff games with 710 00:36:51,278 --> 00:36:54,558 Speaker 1: this with Wolfie down in Tampa Bay. When you're now 711 00:36:54,598 --> 00:36:56,558 Speaker 1: you know, I just went nuts. It was you know, 712 00:36:56,598 --> 00:36:58,518 Speaker 1: it gets to be a big moment and you and 713 00:36:58,638 --> 00:37:01,238 Speaker 1: you just go crazy. So I would I think there 714 00:37:01,318 --> 00:37:04,398 Speaker 1: might be something in there if we could just research 715 00:37:04,438 --> 00:37:05,758 Speaker 1: this a little bit more, because this is one of 716 00:37:05,758 --> 00:37:08,358 Speaker 1: those things that I mean, I think you guys, like 717 00:37:08,398 --> 00:37:11,718 Speaker 1: we're talking about it's incredible how often you people are correct. 718 00:37:11,958 --> 00:37:13,998 Speaker 1: It's incredible how often you guys are on the money. 719 00:37:14,038 --> 00:37:16,558 Speaker 1: It is, and this one here, it's hard to ask 720 00:37:16,558 --> 00:37:18,238 Speaker 1: you to be on the money, like you're saying. And 721 00:37:18,318 --> 00:37:20,758 Speaker 1: the other thing is if a Peter hits a night game, 722 00:37:20,878 --> 00:37:22,918 Speaker 1: a hitter has a black bat or dark bat, isn't 723 00:37:22,958 --> 00:37:25,558 Speaker 1: it more difficult to see from a distance than a 724 00:37:25,638 --> 00:37:27,638 Speaker 1: regular Back in a day they were all light colored 725 00:37:27,638 --> 00:37:30,038 Speaker 1: bats or the flame tempered bat, you could see them. 726 00:37:30,038 --> 00:37:32,558 Speaker 1: When when hitter's using a black bat at night, from 727 00:37:32,558 --> 00:37:34,358 Speaker 1: the side, it's hard to see where the end of 728 00:37:34,398 --> 00:37:36,558 Speaker 1: that bat is. So there's other things that I think 729 00:37:36,598 --> 00:37:40,718 Speaker 1: need to be researched with this. Something simple, and I 730 00:37:40,758 --> 00:37:44,398 Speaker 1: think it would. It would. It would from a manager's perspective, 731 00:37:45,118 --> 00:37:47,678 Speaker 1: knowing that this like you could review a play first 732 00:37:47,678 --> 00:37:51,238 Speaker 1: base that the fact that this is more definitive whether 733 00:37:51,278 --> 00:37:54,798 Speaker 1: you went or not. I would really appreciate that. The dugout, yeah, 734 00:37:55,038 --> 00:37:57,558 Speaker 1: I haven't heard anything talked about that, but certainly you 735 00:37:57,598 --> 00:38:01,398 Speaker 1: would think with technology something like that could. The only 736 00:38:02,158 --> 00:38:04,278 Speaker 1: the best part about that for me is that if 737 00:38:04,318 --> 00:38:07,038 Speaker 1: they ever come to that, I'll be retiring at the 738 00:38:07,118 --> 00:38:11,358 Speaker 1: Jersey Shore, which is not a bad gig. Brother, that's 739 00:38:11,398 --> 00:38:14,878 Speaker 1: not a bad gig. Hey, Phil, before we get out 740 00:38:14,878 --> 00:38:17,238 Speaker 1: of here, we do have a job for you, an 741 00:38:17,278 --> 00:38:20,278 Speaker 1: assignment it's a little bit easier than work in the plate. 742 00:38:20,718 --> 00:38:23,478 Speaker 1: It's picking a number between one and three hundred and 743 00:38:23,518 --> 00:38:26,438 Speaker 1: sixty eight. This is our book, the Book of Joe, 744 00:38:26,918 --> 00:38:29,958 Speaker 1: and this is a reading from the Book of Joe. 745 00:38:32,358 --> 00:38:35,318 Speaker 1: You pick a number and we'll find something there. I 746 00:38:35,358 --> 00:38:37,918 Speaker 1: guarantee you, no matter what number you pick of interest, 747 00:38:37,958 --> 00:38:40,918 Speaker 1: that Joe will grab a book and read a passage 748 00:38:40,958 --> 00:38:45,398 Speaker 1: from that page. So it's your call, mister umpire. Hey, 749 00:38:45,438 --> 00:38:50,878 Speaker 1: I'll say twenty nine, Roy nine. Okay, well, this is great. 750 00:38:51,558 --> 00:38:53,998 Speaker 1: Is there a reason for that? Phil got a special 751 00:38:54,078 --> 00:38:57,198 Speaker 1: number for you because your number on the field is ten. Correct? 752 00:38:57,638 --> 00:38:59,518 Speaker 1: You know, after I said twenty nine, so I should 753 00:38:59,558 --> 00:39:02,358 Speaker 1: have said my number, but at twenty nine. My birthday 754 00:39:02,358 --> 00:39:05,838 Speaker 1: is twenty nine. You know in this dovetails to our guest. 755 00:39:06,358 --> 00:39:11,558 Speaker 1: This is so good, Phil of Italian ancestry. Correct, correct, 756 00:39:11,878 --> 00:39:15,678 Speaker 1: I read them, of course. So okay. Musketti, my man Baldi, 757 00:39:15,798 --> 00:39:18,998 Speaker 1: Musketi from Boulder, Colorado. MUSKETI had heard about Madden from 758 00:39:19,078 --> 00:39:21,038 Speaker 1: Ralph de Lulo. Did you ever know Ralph and East 759 00:39:21,038 --> 00:39:24,558 Speaker 1: Coast scout back in the day at all? Oh? No? Great? Great? 760 00:39:24,638 --> 00:39:29,558 Speaker 1: I mean like iconic from Capricatta, Italy, A village in 761 00:39:29,598 --> 00:39:32,118 Speaker 1: the mountains east of Rome, not far from Abruzzo, or 762 00:39:32,158 --> 00:39:36,798 Speaker 1: Madden's grandfather was born. Based under Lulu's recommendations, Musketi invited 763 00:39:36,838 --> 00:39:39,678 Speaker 1: Madden to play that summer with the Collisians. Quite frankly, 764 00:39:39,718 --> 00:39:42,638 Speaker 1: I've never heard of them before that. I said, when 765 00:39:42,638 --> 00:39:44,318 Speaker 1: you're on the East Coast doing your thing, you don't 766 00:39:44,358 --> 00:39:45,998 Speaker 1: get a lot of that. But yeah, I'll take it. 767 00:39:46,118 --> 00:39:48,918 Speaker 1: Let's go. And this is where I started playing against 768 00:39:48,918 --> 00:39:53,038 Speaker 1: guys from Texas, Oklahoma, Southern California, Miami to Florida schools, Michigan, 769 00:39:53,678 --> 00:39:56,518 Speaker 1: Arizona State everywhere. Now was out in the real world, man, 770 00:39:56,598 --> 00:40:00,918 Speaker 1: the real baseball world. That was like the that moment 771 00:40:00,918 --> 00:40:02,358 Speaker 1: when I got to go out there and play in Bold. 772 00:40:02,358 --> 00:40:05,918 Speaker 1: It was nineteen seventy five. That changed everything. That changed 773 00:40:05,958 --> 00:40:09,518 Speaker 1: my trajectory completely. You know, you're playing on the East Coast, 774 00:40:09,558 --> 00:40:11,118 Speaker 1: and you know what it's like. You're here. You know, 775 00:40:11,158 --> 00:40:12,798 Speaker 1: you're playing from the dudes. When I was playing guys 776 00:40:12,798 --> 00:40:15,998 Speaker 1: in Jersey, Pennsylvania, New York, all that's the Atlantic Collegiate 777 00:40:15,998 --> 00:40:18,558 Speaker 1: Baseball League and Lafier College. So they're playing on all 778 00:40:18,598 --> 00:40:20,998 Speaker 1: these schools and you just don't know. You don't know, 779 00:40:21,078 --> 00:40:23,318 Speaker 1: can I compete with the guys from the rest of 780 00:40:23,358 --> 00:40:25,718 Speaker 1: the country. So I go to Boulder. The whole team, 781 00:40:25,758 --> 00:40:28,598 Speaker 1: the whole team is from everywhere the West coast, and 782 00:40:28,678 --> 00:40:32,358 Speaker 1: after like two weeks, I felt I belong here, I 783 00:40:32,438 --> 00:40:33,998 Speaker 1: can do this. I'm as good as these guys. So 784 00:40:34,078 --> 00:40:37,398 Speaker 1: that was like really impactful for me. But Baldi muskeety man. 785 00:40:37,438 --> 00:40:39,718 Speaker 1: You would have loved Baldy and his mom genteel. I mean, 786 00:40:40,118 --> 00:40:43,918 Speaker 1: I used to live in their house. Tremendous cook. Baldi 787 00:40:44,078 --> 00:40:47,878 Speaker 1: was a trip man, and that was the most influential 788 00:40:48,558 --> 00:40:51,518 Speaker 1: year career wise, pathwise for me. It was nineteen seventy 789 00:40:51,518 --> 00:40:55,318 Speaker 1: five and Boulder. Aside from the Italian name, what stuck 790 00:40:55,358 --> 00:40:58,718 Speaker 1: out of me with me about that passage is you 791 00:40:58,718 --> 00:41:01,358 Speaker 1: said a Brutsie. My father's side of the families from 792 00:41:01,358 --> 00:41:03,878 Speaker 1: a Brutsie, and I have ties there a town called 793 00:41:04,478 --> 00:41:06,838 Speaker 1: sent A GOPI though it's up in the mountains, it's 794 00:41:06,918 --> 00:41:10,518 Speaker 1: in that area Kiati, I think in a Brutso that's 795 00:41:10,558 --> 00:41:12,358 Speaker 1: one thing I gotta get back. I gotta get back 796 00:41:12,358 --> 00:41:15,598 Speaker 1: there and just do the backpack thing, travel around, take 797 00:41:15,718 --> 00:41:19,318 Speaker 1: my time, halftime, stand still, and I'm gonna do it. Man. 798 00:41:19,358 --> 00:41:21,838 Speaker 1: I'm gonna do it. But that's cool, man, kind of 799 00:41:21,838 --> 00:41:24,878 Speaker 1: the same area. Love it, Yeah, I love it. But Scara, 800 00:41:25,038 --> 00:41:27,918 Speaker 1: the brute seat was where my father's family was from. Dude, 801 00:41:27,998 --> 00:41:29,958 Speaker 1: I'm serious, man, I know those all that. I got 802 00:41:30,038 --> 00:41:32,598 Speaker 1: to research that area. I'm hearing the same things from 803 00:41:32,638 --> 00:41:37,318 Speaker 1: my family. So we're on the same Italian page right here. Wow, 804 00:41:37,838 --> 00:41:40,518 Speaker 1: broll Phil. This has been a blast. I mean the 805 00:41:40,598 --> 00:41:44,078 Speaker 1: stories are just unique, one of a kind, and hopefully 806 00:41:44,078 --> 00:41:47,438 Speaker 1: our listeners enjoyed it, and I know they'll really enjoy 807 00:41:47,558 --> 00:41:50,758 Speaker 1: this baseball season. I keep telling people, I'm so excited 808 00:41:50,798 --> 00:41:53,198 Speaker 1: about this year. We've seen glimpses of it in spring 809 00:41:53,238 --> 00:41:56,358 Speaker 1: training where the games move so much faster, the pace 810 00:41:56,518 --> 00:41:59,398 Speaker 1: is so much better. I think baseball is looking at 811 00:41:59,398 --> 00:42:01,998 Speaker 1: a little renaissance here, and it's good to hear. The 812 00:42:02,118 --> 00:42:05,398 Speaker 1: umpires are really a very big part of it. So 813 00:42:05,678 --> 00:42:08,078 Speaker 1: next time we watch a game, folks, thank your umpire. 814 00:42:09,078 --> 00:42:11,998 Speaker 1: Thank you Phil, Thank you guys. I enjoyed it. Thanks Phil, 815 00:42:11,998 --> 00:42:13,478 Speaker 1: So head to the voice for me too, please. I 816 00:42:13,558 --> 00:42:15,718 Speaker 1: appreciate that. We'll do it. Great to see it, man, 817 00:42:15,798 --> 00:42:17,998 Speaker 1: great to see it. Than you well, Joe, that was 818 00:42:18,198 --> 00:42:21,118 Speaker 1: really really interesting and we got through the whole episode 819 00:42:21,118 --> 00:42:25,998 Speaker 1: without you having an argument with Phil. So congratulations, Thank 820 00:42:25,998 --> 00:42:28,798 Speaker 1: you man. I wanted to ask one more question. I 821 00:42:28,798 --> 00:42:31,358 Speaker 1: didn't want to prolong it though, just about the electronic 822 00:42:31,398 --> 00:42:34,398 Speaker 1: strike zone with the scuttle but is among the umpires. 823 00:42:35,158 --> 00:42:37,198 Speaker 1: But he covered so many different topics that did not 824 00:42:37,278 --> 00:42:41,238 Speaker 1: want to prolong it. But I'm just you know, when 825 00:42:41,238 --> 00:42:42,918 Speaker 1: it comes to that, when we get to that point, 826 00:42:42,958 --> 00:42:45,198 Speaker 1: if in fact it does happen, it's always about the 827 00:42:45,278 --> 00:42:48,798 Speaker 1: unintended consequences and the optics with all that. And I 828 00:42:48,878 --> 00:42:51,398 Speaker 1: just was curious about his concerns. So maybe we'll get 829 00:42:51,438 --> 00:42:53,958 Speaker 1: him on another time and talk about that. But otherwise, 830 00:42:53,998 --> 00:42:56,878 Speaker 1: I thought he did a wonderful job of explaining the 831 00:42:56,918 --> 00:42:59,518 Speaker 1: psyche of the umpire, what they go through daily, the 832 00:42:59,558 --> 00:43:02,438 Speaker 1: adjustments having to be made, all the stuff that they 833 00:43:02,478 --> 00:43:05,438 Speaker 1: have to be vigilant about. Its crazy, and we keep 834 00:43:05,478 --> 00:43:08,318 Speaker 1: adding more layers to it. Yeah, I'm glad you brought 835 00:43:08,398 --> 00:43:11,798 Speaker 1: up the electronic strike zone because you know it's coming. 836 00:43:12,238 --> 00:43:14,878 Speaker 1: There's no doubt about that. The technology is just too good. 837 00:43:14,918 --> 00:43:18,478 Speaker 1: They need to redefine what the strike zone is. But 838 00:43:18,678 --> 00:43:22,038 Speaker 1: I am in favor of sort of a transitional system, 839 00:43:22,118 --> 00:43:25,238 Speaker 1: not a full on robostrike zone. But the challenge system 840 00:43:25,318 --> 00:43:27,758 Speaker 1: that's been used in the minor leagues where the players 841 00:43:28,038 --> 00:43:32,118 Speaker 1: get three challenges per game, similar to Hawkeye and tennis, 842 00:43:33,078 --> 00:43:35,878 Speaker 1: and it's already been used. It happens very quickly, it's 843 00:43:35,878 --> 00:43:38,158 Speaker 1: over within three seconds. They show the video on the 844 00:43:38,198 --> 00:43:40,238 Speaker 1: board of whether the pitch is in the zone or not. 845 00:43:41,558 --> 00:43:43,718 Speaker 1: And it doesn't come from the dugout. This is if 846 00:43:43,718 --> 00:43:45,798 Speaker 1: you're in the box, you know, and you think the 847 00:43:46,038 --> 00:43:48,398 Speaker 1: umpire missed the call, you can challenge it. But remember 848 00:43:48,398 --> 00:43:51,038 Speaker 1: you only have three so there's some strategy to it 849 00:43:51,118 --> 00:43:54,758 Speaker 1: as well. And here's what's interesting, Joe, when they've tried 850 00:43:54,798 --> 00:43:58,558 Speaker 1: this out in the minor leagues and again you only 851 00:43:58,598 --> 00:44:01,438 Speaker 1: have three, so you're gonna wait from really key moments 852 00:44:01,438 --> 00:44:04,198 Speaker 1: in the game to challenge a pitch whether you think 853 00:44:04,198 --> 00:44:07,638 Speaker 1: the umpire missed the call or not, and more times 854 00:44:07,678 --> 00:44:12,518 Speaker 1: than not, the umpire was correct. How about that. That's 855 00:44:12,518 --> 00:44:14,598 Speaker 1: how good these guys are. But I do like the 856 00:44:14,638 --> 00:44:17,758 Speaker 1: idea you've got that in your pocket because you don't 857 00:44:17,798 --> 00:44:20,958 Speaker 1: want a game to end or be decided sure an 858 00:44:20,998 --> 00:44:23,358 Speaker 1: obvious blown call. That's why we have replay on the 859 00:44:23,398 --> 00:44:26,238 Speaker 1: basis I would not go full on robostrike zone. But 860 00:44:26,278 --> 00:44:28,918 Speaker 1: I do like the challenge system. I've heard this too 861 00:44:28,958 --> 00:44:32,278 Speaker 1: that I kind of like put the system in place, 862 00:44:32,438 --> 00:44:35,558 Speaker 1: but not necessary not to call every pitch, but to 863 00:44:35,678 --> 00:44:37,958 Speaker 1: correct the umpires per pitch. In other words, the umpire 864 00:44:37,958 --> 00:44:40,278 Speaker 1: has got like a little whatever, like the little AirPod 865 00:44:40,358 --> 00:44:43,798 Speaker 1: airpud in his ear, and after the pitch is thrown 866 00:44:43,838 --> 00:44:47,078 Speaker 1: and it's called, he gets an affirmation that it was 867 00:44:47,158 --> 00:44:48,918 Speaker 1: right or it was wrong, like it was off a 868 00:44:48,918 --> 00:44:52,118 Speaker 1: little bit right. And I think I would think that 869 00:44:52,118 --> 00:44:55,118 Speaker 1: that's going to permit an umpire to make kind of 870 00:44:55,158 --> 00:44:58,158 Speaker 1: microadjustments during the game, so that if he's really just 871 00:44:58,198 --> 00:45:00,078 Speaker 1: a little bit off on a particular pitch, you could 872 00:45:00,118 --> 00:45:03,078 Speaker 1: make the adjustment without having to go through the historyonics 873 00:45:03,078 --> 00:45:07,238 Speaker 1: of be getting so mechanical with the game, so technical 874 00:45:07,278 --> 00:45:09,798 Speaker 1: with the game that you're really eliminating a human element. 875 00:45:09,838 --> 00:45:12,918 Speaker 1: I thought that was a pretty good thought. Just to 876 00:45:13,798 --> 00:45:17,278 Speaker 1: it's an ear good call. You might want to reconsider 877 00:45:17,318 --> 00:45:18,718 Speaker 1: that it might have been an inch out, so whatever 878 00:45:18,758 --> 00:45:22,318 Speaker 1: that might be. But I'd be fascinated if that could 879 00:45:22,318 --> 00:45:25,158 Speaker 1: be incorporated somehow. That's a good idea. As you know, 880 00:45:25,318 --> 00:45:28,718 Speaker 1: they do get a digital report card after game, but 881 00:45:28,798 --> 00:45:30,838 Speaker 1: why not have it in the course of the game. Sure, 882 00:45:31,238 --> 00:45:35,078 Speaker 1: so's it's definitely worth exploring. In game correction, man, it's um, 883 00:45:35,558 --> 00:45:37,318 Speaker 1: you're going to get a pitch. You know, the guy 884 00:45:37,358 --> 00:45:39,358 Speaker 1: may alter the zone. I mean, if how adamant and 885 00:45:39,358 --> 00:45:44,078 Speaker 1: how much he believes that, you're straight up guy as 886 00:45:44,078 --> 00:45:47,198 Speaker 1: a catcher, the catcher that's always complaining, always crying, always 887 00:45:47,278 --> 00:45:49,238 Speaker 1: wants everything, he's not going to get that. But if 888 00:45:49,278 --> 00:45:52,358 Speaker 1: you have a reputation of if the pitches off the plate, 889 00:45:52,398 --> 00:45:54,878 Speaker 1: I used to tell umpires a good call, it's out, 890 00:45:54,918 --> 00:45:57,438 Speaker 1: it's out. When you start being that honest with an 891 00:45:57,518 --> 00:46:00,758 Speaker 1: umpire about good and bad pitches, and you work together 892 00:46:00,838 --> 00:46:03,118 Speaker 1: that way, eventually you're gonna get yourself a pretty good 893 00:46:03,118 --> 00:46:05,798 Speaker 1: strike zone. I like it. Hey. By the way, Joe, 894 00:46:05,838 --> 00:46:09,038 Speaker 1: we are coming up very close now to Opening Day 895 00:46:09,438 --> 00:46:14,318 Speaker 1: Baseball twenty twenty three. So how about our next podcast 896 00:46:14,638 --> 00:46:18,198 Speaker 1: we do our own version of a baseball preview show. 897 00:46:18,318 --> 00:46:21,678 Speaker 1: We'll talk about what we look forward to, maybe what 898 00:46:22,238 --> 00:46:25,398 Speaker 1: is not so good, and maybe a few opening day 899 00:46:25,478 --> 00:46:28,438 Speaker 1: stories of yours. How about that? That's cool? Man? Yes, 900 00:46:28,638 --> 00:46:30,838 Speaker 1: I mean all right, I'll be there too. By the way, 901 00:46:31,758 --> 00:46:34,118 Speaker 1: I need you, I need you badly. Yes, Episode as 902 00:46:34,238 --> 00:46:37,038 Speaker 1: we wrap this one up, you got something to take 903 00:46:37,118 --> 00:46:38,878 Speaker 1: us out. Yeah, it's kind of like I think it 904 00:46:38,958 --> 00:46:41,918 Speaker 1: dovetails into all of this and it comes from Nelson Mandela. 905 00:46:42,078 --> 00:46:44,318 Speaker 1: Real quick, Kurt, But it's right to the point. It 906 00:46:44,358 --> 00:46:48,558 Speaker 1: always seems impossible until it's done. You know, you get 907 00:46:48,598 --> 00:46:51,918 Speaker 1: you get to these situations, this mountain, this hill in 908 00:46:51,998 --> 00:46:53,878 Speaker 1: front of you, God, how am I going to do 909 00:46:53,918 --> 00:46:56,558 Speaker 1: all that stuff? And then when it's done, damn, it 910 00:46:56,598 --> 00:47:00,238 Speaker 1: wasn't impossible. I love that by mister Mandela. I like that. 911 00:47:00,318 --> 00:47:02,758 Speaker 1: And if I can just piggyback on that, sure, a 912 00:47:02,918 --> 00:47:05,998 Speaker 1: terrific book if you like writing or a writer just 913 00:47:06,078 --> 00:47:09,678 Speaker 1: interested in writing. And Lamot bird by bird is the 914 00:47:09,718 --> 00:47:12,198 Speaker 1: name of the book. And along those lines what you've 915 00:47:12,478 --> 00:47:14,918 Speaker 1: just mentioned with the great Nelson Mandela, she had an 916 00:47:14,918 --> 00:47:17,558 Speaker 1: assignment in an early age to paint this whole genus 917 00:47:17,558 --> 00:47:19,318 Speaker 1: of birds. She's like, how am I going to do 918 00:47:19,438 --> 00:47:23,238 Speaker 1: all these birds? And I just can't do it. And 919 00:47:23,798 --> 00:47:26,358 Speaker 1: the best advice she got was, you know how you 920 00:47:26,398 --> 00:47:29,398 Speaker 1: do it. You do it bird by bird, And that's 921 00:47:29,398 --> 00:47:31,998 Speaker 1: how you get big things done, little by little. Don't 922 00:47:32,038 --> 00:47:34,518 Speaker 1: try to take a big bite. Amen. And with that 923 00:47:34,558 --> 00:47:36,518 Speaker 1: we're gonna say goodbye We'll see you next time in 924 00:47:36,558 --> 00:47:46,918 Speaker 1: the Book of Joe podcast. Thanks Tommy nice going. The 925 00:47:46,958 --> 00:47:50,358 Speaker 1: Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio. For 926 00:47:50,478 --> 00:47:54,118 Speaker 1: more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 927 00:47:54,198 --> 00:47:57,158 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.