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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Missed in History Class, a production

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Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio, Hello and Happy Friday, Am Holly Fry and

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Speaker 1: I'm Tray c V. Wilson. We talked about Pope Leo

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Speaker 1: the thirteenth this week. Sure did. These are always tricky

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Speaker 1: because I wanna always include as much as I can about,

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Speaker 1: you know, their positions on religion without being without offering

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Speaker 1: commentary on it. But it's tricky, especially when it fell

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Speaker 1: to you to read some of the more like super

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Speaker 1: pro old school Catholicism stuff that he wrote, right, I

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Speaker 1: more struggled with the grammatical construction than like the content.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, you know, I read whatever, whatever we're quoting,

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Speaker 1: I read it. That was not my personal words that

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Speaker 1: are coming out of my mouth. It's a quote. But

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Speaker 1: like there were multiple times that there were just the

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Speaker 1: words were in an order that my brain was really

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Speaker 1: having a hard time with. Yeah, And some of that

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Speaker 1: is that it's translated from Latin, right, And some of

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Speaker 1: that is that it was translated a long time ago,

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Speaker 1: when it was pretty customary for a lot of English

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Speaker 1: language official documents to be more stilted. Anyway, Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: don't know who did those translations, but I have so

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Speaker 1: little familiarity with like any of the like doctrine of

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Speaker 1: the Catholic Church. Ohh, because like I grew up in

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Speaker 1: an area that was overwhelmingly Protestant Christian, Right, I feel

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Speaker 1: like I could count the number of like Catholic students

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Speaker 1: in my school classes in single digits, being one digit

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Speaker 1: being my one finger holding it up to count one person.

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Speaker 1: And some of that was because there were Catholic private

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Speaker 1: schools that a lot of the Catholic kids went to

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Speaker 1: that I would not have known otherwise. But just like

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Speaker 1: that was overwhelmingly there were the flavors of Protestantism that

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Speaker 1: were mostly what was represented in my day to day life.

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Speaker 1: So it's like most of my familiarity is more the

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Speaker 1: things that are widely represented in various popular culture, like

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Speaker 1: the fact that the pope exists and confession and monasteries,

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Speaker 1: like you sort of absorb those kinds of ideas through

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Speaker 1: media and whatever. And then when we were getting into

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Speaker 1: things about his documents that he was writing, I was like,

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Speaker 1: none of this is really connecting to these in my

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Speaker 1: brain very well, right, Yeah, it's interesting, right, I grew

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Speaker 1: up half my mother's side of the family very Roman Catholic,

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Speaker 1: so definitely grew up with that. And it was very

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Speaker 1: funny when Poplio the fourteenth was announced. Where was I.

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Speaker 1: I was somewhere. I think we were driving home from

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Speaker 1: either the Vets office or like coffee with a friend,

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Speaker 1: and Brian was reading it to me on his phone

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Speaker 1: because I was driving, and he was like, oh, he's

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Speaker 1: Poplio the fourteenth, and I was like, oh, this is

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Speaker 1: a very interesting choice. And I was just like spouting

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Speaker 1: off things I knew about Poplio the thirteenth to poor Brian,

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Speaker 1: who was like, okay. And I did see a lot

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Speaker 1: of news coverage of Leo the thirteenth that summated him

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Speaker 1: in ways that removed the complications of his papacy. And

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Speaker 1: there is an interesting thing that has emerged in like

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Speaker 1: the last twenty years where and even longer really probably

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Speaker 1: more like forty to fifty years, where historians and scholars,

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Speaker 1: you know, in the early half of the twentieth century,

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Speaker 1: there was a lot of like I don't want to

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Speaker 1: say whitewashing because that's not accurate, but there was a

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Speaker 1: lot of writing about him that made him seem much

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Speaker 1: more liberal than he was. Sure he was obviously in

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Speaker 1: some ways very progressive and liberal for his time. The

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Speaker 1: fact that there was a pope in the early nineteen

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Speaker 1: hundreds going no workers' unions was pretty groundbreaking. But he

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Speaker 1: also there was a lot of writing that left out

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Speaker 1: how much he was like, Nope, we're not gonna change

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Speaker 1: the church ever. Yeah, you gotta straighten up and fly

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Speaker 1: right if you want to be at our party. And

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Speaker 1: it was like a lot of that gets left out, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I mean that doesn't necessarily detract from the progressive

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Speaker 1: things he did, Yeah, but it is a partial picture,

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Speaker 1: and it oversimplifies the complexity of any human being, and

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Speaker 1: particularly a human being that does wield a lot of power.

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Speaker 1: Even though he may not have held the political maneuverability

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Speaker 1: in terms of like ruling papal states that prior press

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Speaker 1: had had, he still was very influential on a huge

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Speaker 1: portion of the global population. And as we mentioned at

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Speaker 1: the end, he was very good at outreach and pr

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Speaker 1: and talking to other people that were not part of

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Speaker 1: the Catholic Church right had power and you know, creating

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Speaker 1: relationships with them that he could then exert power through.

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Speaker 1: So he's really fascinating to me. Yeah, I was on

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Speaker 1: vacation when the conclave happened, and was not really looking

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Speaker 1: at news a lot because I was on vacation, hooray.

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Speaker 1: But I got a push a push notification on my

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Speaker 1: phone from a group chat that I'm in that just

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Speaker 1: said white smoke. And then like the next time I

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Speaker 1: actually looked at that group chat just had an enormously

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Speaker 1: long discussion and I was like, I'm not reading any

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Speaker 1: of this. But a couple of people had, like in

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Speaker 1: my social circle, had pointed to sort of threads of

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Speaker 1: analysis of like this choice of pope and what it

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Speaker 1: could mean and stuff like that, and I was reading

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Speaker 1: through them and I was like, I just I don't understand.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what half of these things that you're

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Speaker 1: talking about are. Like they were talking about different kind

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Speaker 1: of factions within the church, different movements that had happened. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I was like, I've never heard of any of

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Speaker 1: this at all, Like it's just not within my scope

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Speaker 1: in a lot of fos, right, Well, it is really

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Speaker 1: interesting to watch the ways the selection of the pope

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Speaker 1: has often been a hard shift from what has gone before.

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Speaker 1: That was almost one of the more unique things about

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Speaker 1: the selection of Leo the fourteenth is that they actually

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Speaker 1: said oh this was Pope Francis's pick. Well, then that's

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Speaker 1: our guy, Like it wasn't so much. No, no, we

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Speaker 1: should hard shift to a far more conservative stance than

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Speaker 1: Francis had because I was getting us in trouble or

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Speaker 1: picking a moderate like just so how quickly that conclave

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Speaker 1: played out and that they picked his guy was really interesting. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I was. I was not expecting the Somebody had mentioned like, oh,

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Speaker 1: the conclave starting, and I was like, yeah, I'll probably

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Speaker 1: gone for a while. I was one hundred percent wrong

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Speaker 1: in that. This is why I should not talk about

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Speaker 1: things that I have a little familiarity. Well we did.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the thing is, though nobody knew. I mean

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Speaker 1: there were discussions going into that, Like the second Francis passed,

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Speaker 1: there was a lot of like, are they gonna like

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Speaker 1: rubber band back the other way? Are they gonna try

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Speaker 1: to find someone who's a little middle ground? Are they now?

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Speaker 1: Granted I do feel like there will be more middle

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Speaker 1: ground than people may be hoping with the new store,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, it's just the whole thing is fascinating to me,

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Speaker 1: and having been raised half Catholic, it's super fascinating. Like

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Speaker 1: when we were in Italy, and we were walking through

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Speaker 1: the Vatican Museum. I was losing my mind. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and writing down names of popes as we went for

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Speaker 1: things that I wanted to cover in the future. Leo

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Speaker 1: the thirteenth was one of them. So this offered up

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Speaker 1: an opportunity because he is, you know, he gets a

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Speaker 1: lot of like nicknames that are very much like he

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Speaker 1: was a magical unicorn gateway between Catholicism and the new

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Speaker 1: era of industrialization. And I mean, I guess if you

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Speaker 1: really reduce things down, you could say that, yes, but

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Speaker 1: it's so much more complicated, and more recent scholars have

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Speaker 1: pointed out, like, hey, those versions that we read in

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Speaker 1: the nineteen teens about his life are really really adoring,

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Speaker 1: right right, Yeah, you know, any he's I'm fascinating. I'm

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Speaker 1: fascinated by it all. Yeah. We talked about the Christiana

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Speaker 1: incident this week. Yeah, I'm glad that you did this

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Speaker 1: one because it had been lingering on my short list

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Speaker 1: literally for years, just hanging out there, Christiana Riot with

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Speaker 1: a question mark afterward. Yeah, not even researched enough to

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Speaker 1: really think about whether riot was the correct term to

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Speaker 1: use there or not. Just there on the list. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it gets written about and as we said at the

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Speaker 1: top of the show, the Christiana Riot, the Christianic Resistance,

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Speaker 1: the Christiana incident. And I think part of the problem

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Speaker 1: is that the actual details of what happened in those

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Speaker 1: you know, ninety minutes where things were really happening, are

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Speaker 1: so messy and confusing that there's almost no way to

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Speaker 1: know what the right thing was except that we know that, yeah,

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Speaker 1: the first shots fired were Gorsas people. Yeah, and we

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Speaker 1: like we've talked in various previous episodes about how often

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Speaker 1: things that are described as quote race riots, like that

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Speaker 1: term is loadfully incorrect and loaded in terms of describing

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Speaker 1: what actually happened, which was often a white mob attacking

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Speaker 1: a black community that then became described as a race riot. Yes,

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Speaker 1: there's an interesting, weird tie in that I discovered that

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Speaker 1: doesn't really fit in the narrative. But I was like, what, So,

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Speaker 1: Edward Gorsich had another son that was younger than Dickinson

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Speaker 1: named Thomas. Thomas went to school with and was friends

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Speaker 1: with a younger boy named John Wilkes Booth. Oh wow, Okay,

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Speaker 1: it's one of those things too. This comes up a

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Speaker 1: lot for me, and I imagine it does for you,

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Speaker 1: and really anyone that studies history, particularly of the US's

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Speaker 1: earlier years, because it's so populated now that the idea

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Speaker 1: of so many people knowing each other seems absurd. But

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Speaker 1: then you'll read these things and it's like, this person

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Speaker 1: was tied to this person, and I also knew this person,

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Speaker 1: and I'm like, were there seven people living in the

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Speaker 1: US for a long time? But it really was much

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Speaker 1: smaller in terms of population than it is now. It's

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Speaker 1: hard to consider. Even so, that's still a weird coincidence

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Speaker 1: in my opinion. John Wilkes Booth just in case anybody

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Speaker 1: doesn't remember, I remember, but just in case, is the

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Speaker 1: person who assassinated Abraham Lincoln the Wild Times. This did

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Speaker 1: become for me such a fascinating look at what all

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Speaker 1: was going on, And I highly recommend if people find

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Speaker 1: this story interesting, that you go read William Parker's story

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Speaker 1: in The Atlantic. It's listed in the show notes as

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Speaker 1: one of the sources. Because he is a character in

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Speaker 1: a way, not in the jovial way that you would

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Speaker 1: often use that term, but like he sounds like an

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Speaker 1: intense dude that was very ready to go. If it

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Speaker 1: was like, all right, great, we gotta fight these people.

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Speaker 1: We gotta fight these people. There's no questions about it.

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Speaker 1: And like, there's a phrasing that he used at one

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Speaker 1: point where he was talking about one of the things

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Speaker 1: that his group of men, and it's very interesting because

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Speaker 1: even in older write ups and newer it's often described

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Speaker 1: as a vigilance society, but not very specifically a vigilante society,

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Speaker 1: which is an interesting thing. But that he would basically

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Speaker 1: like everybody had to like swear their intentions before they

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Speaker 1: would go do a thing like, listen, we all know

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Speaker 1: this guy is giving up people who are gonna get

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Speaker 1: kidnapped and taken away. We have reached a point where

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Speaker 1: we have to burn his house down. You guys all

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Speaker 1: have to swear that you're in for this and that

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Speaker 1: nobody's gonna like turntail. And he would do that before

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Speaker 1: any of these things, it sounds like, and that's right,

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Speaker 1: is just a very fascinating sort of careful way to

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Speaker 1: measure intention and quite thoughtful because at that point he

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Speaker 1: has all of them on some sort of record, like

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Speaker 1: everyone else in the group has witnessed. You said you

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Speaker 1: were going to do this, We're all doing this. That

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Speaker 1: just fascinated me, Yeah, he kind of abruptly left his

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Speaker 1: wife though, which makes me sad. I don't know what

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Speaker 1: the relationship was, right, but I was like, oh, that's

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Speaker 1: an Oh, that's a sad ending. All right. They've been

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Speaker 1: through so much. Stay together, make love last. They had

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Speaker 1: a lot of kids together. But you know, everybody's life

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Speaker 1: takes a different path. I don't know what his personal

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Speaker 1: life experience was. I was just thinking, you never know,

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Speaker 1: you never know. Maybe it was miserable. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I started working on this kind of

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Speaker 1: in a fit, and it was in the middle of

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Speaker 1: middle of the night because myserk Katiean rhythms are weird.

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Speaker 1: And then I was like, took a few hours in

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Speaker 1: and I was like, I should check with Tracy because

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure if you had mentioned it at one

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Speaker 1: point in the past. But I was like, I feel

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Speaker 1: like this was when she was thinking about doing yeah

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Speaker 1: and bless you. You were like, yeah, but I haven't

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Speaker 1: done it, so go ahead. I have this list of

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Speaker 1: potential topic episodes, and it's like down at the bottom

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Speaker 1: of a spreadsheet that we use for planning out what

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Speaker 1: we're doing. Yeah, like what we're recording when, And it's

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Speaker 1: wild to me that we're still using a spreadsheet. I

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Speaker 1: do it to make sure that we have enough episodes

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Speaker 1: recorded to account for upcoming time off. But down below

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Speaker 1: it is just this like huge list of things that

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Speaker 1: I've been thinking about doing. And Christiana was up near

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Speaker 1: the top of that list. So it's totally possible that

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Speaker 1: looking at that calendar repeatedly, it's I probably remembered it. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: because I keep my list on my phone because sometimes

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Speaker 1: I'll do stuff like if I am traveling and I

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Speaker 1: haven't started a show yet, I'll be like, what am

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Speaker 1: I thinking of? I have time on this flight I

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Speaker 1: could maybe start. And I don't always have my computer

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Speaker 1: with me on those on trips, right. I make notes

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Speaker 1: If I'm out about, out and about in the world

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Speaker 1: and I see something that seems interesting, a lot of

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Speaker 1: times I will put it into a notes app. The

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Speaker 1: other day, I'm not going to spoil what it was,

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Speaker 1: But the other day I was I was doing a

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Speaker 1: thing that made me think of something to maybe do

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Speaker 1: as an episode, and so I just emailed myself from

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Speaker 1: my phone. Oh, yeah, I did, with just that one

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Speaker 1: word in the subject line, like, I'll remember what this

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Speaker 1: means on Tuesday when I returned to the office. How

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Speaker 1: often do you not remember what that means? I am

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Speaker 1: more likely to lose track of things that are in

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Speaker 1: the notes app, especially if like a really long time

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Speaker 1: has passed between putting something in a note and then

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Speaker 1: like if I kind of go I am running short

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Speaker 1: of ideas? Do I have anything that I didn't transfer

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Speaker 1: over to the list from the notes app? And occasionally

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Speaker 1: I will run into stuff that I will think at

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Speaker 1: first was a topic idea for the show, and it

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Speaker 1: will turn out to be something absolutely unrelated to the podcast. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I've done that. You know. Sometimes you'll be like, I

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Speaker 1: say you, I mean that in the general not you.

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Speaker 1: Tracy will say sure, you know. You'll be like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'll remember, of course. I remember. This is very important.

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Speaker 1: It's made an impact on me. Sally made an impression

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Speaker 1: on me. I'll never forget what was that. I don't

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Speaker 1: even know this name means. Yes, when I emailed myself

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Speaker 1: this one word subject line of an email with nothing else,

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Speaker 1: I was like, I'm am I going to remember what

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Speaker 1: this means? When I get back to work, we'll see yeah,

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Speaker 1: sometimes I do and other times no. But I have

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Speaker 1: to write everything down because otherwise some other shiny object

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Speaker 1: will supplant it and then I want to game here,

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Speaker 1: or I'll be like a kiddie. Look listen. Unrelated to history,

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Speaker 1: unrelated to anything. I'm gonna tell you an amazing thing

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Speaker 1: that happened to me at the airport. Great. So we

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Speaker 1: are coming off of the weekend when I had a

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Speaker 1: lot of people that came into town to spend time

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Speaker 1: with us, which was wonderful. And while I was waiting

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Speaker 1: for one of my friends at the arrival's lobby, I

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Speaker 1: had seen this woman walk by a couple times holding

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Speaker 1: a puppy, and then she looped around a third time

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Speaker 1: and she looked at me and said, will you hold

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Speaker 1: this puppy while I set up a little playpen for him?

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Speaker 1: And I was like, are you also going to offer

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Speaker 1: me a million dollars and a cake? Like? What, of course,

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Speaker 1: give me the puppy. It was the cutest little thing.

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Speaker 1: And it turned out she was meeting the puppies new

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Speaker 1: people and they had not gotten in yet and the

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Speaker 1: puppy needed to stretch. It's like like, I can't carry

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Speaker 1: him around and I don't want to leave him in

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Speaker 1: the carrier. He's very young, and I'm worried he needs

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Speaker 1: a potty pad, and so I want to set up

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Speaker 1: his thing, but I can't hold him and do it.

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Speaker 1: Can you hold him? Right? It's just like the bliss

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Speaker 1: the sweetest puppy. The puppy licked my face and I

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Speaker 1: almost there was a flash in my brain of if

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Speaker 1: you just run out the door right now, this is

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Speaker 1: your puppy. I don't need a puppy. I'm not equipped

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Speaker 1: for a puppy. But it was so sweet. It was

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Speaker 1: a great moment. Yeah, sometimes the universe gives you puppy kisses. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: just cuz. Yeah. We some friends and I went on

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Speaker 1: a hike over the weekend and we were going to

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Speaker 1: hike and then we were going to get in the

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Speaker 1: car and drive approximately two and a half hours to

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Speaker 1: get back to where we all live. And as we

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Speaker 1: were in the in the car setting off, we all

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Speaker 1: kind of realized we were more tired than we thought

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Speaker 1: we were gonna be u And so my friend who

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Speaker 1: was driving, was like, Okay, if I see a place

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Speaker 1: to buy coffee, we're stopping. Yeah, said great, and so

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Speaker 1: we stopped at this like little locally owned coffee Roasterree.

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Speaker 1: We went and we just got something to drink. We

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Speaker 1: came out and there was somebody with the cutest little

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Speaker 1: corgi outside of the coffee shop, and so we all

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Speaker 1: got to have surprise corgi time. It's the best surprise

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Speaker 1: puppy time. It's pretty magical. Now you're making me want

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Speaker 1: to go and buy a coffee at a cute new place.

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Speaker 1: They're probably not, but you never know. But there's a

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Speaker 1: place near us that has a really yummy banana latte

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Speaker 1: that I'm obsessed with, and now I have to go

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Speaker 1: get another one. Okay, delicious. They also have a lavender

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Speaker 1: latte with is it Holapano sugar on it? Oh it

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Speaker 1: sounds wild, but it's so perfect and delicious. I love it. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: I'm glad we got to take a look at this

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Speaker 1: topic this week. I'll loop it back to history because

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Speaker 1: we always talk in broad strokes, not we people in general.

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Speaker 1: You know, there's a presumption that we I know, how

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Speaker 1: the Civil War like ratcheted up to the point that

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Speaker 1: it became a declaration of war. But there are a

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Speaker 1: lot of moments like this that are important steps on

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Speaker 1: the way to it, and I think it's important to

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Speaker 1: look at them because we're all experiencing a lot of

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Speaker 1: moments that are important and could potentially be steps to

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Speaker 1: bigger things that are scary, and I just think it's

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Speaker 1: important to look at history. Thank you. Yeah. If this

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Speaker 1: is your weekend coming up, I hope it kicks butt.

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Speaker 1: I hope you have a great time. I hope you

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Speaker 1: have a lot of fun and that surprise puppies land

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Speaker 1: in your world. Who know on that maybe the delicious

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Speaker 1: coffee if that's your thing, Even if it's not your weekend,

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Speaker 1: maybe you could have surprise puppy time. I hope that

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Speaker 1: everybody is kind to one another. And if you don't

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Speaker 1: have time off this weekend, I really hope that you

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Speaker 1: at least sneak a little bit of time away for

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Speaker 1: yourself in whatever way recharges you best, whether that is

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Speaker 1: alone or with people you love. We will be right

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Speaker 1: back here tomorrow, last episode, and then on Monday we

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Speaker 1: will have something brand new. Stuff you missed in History

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Speaker 1: Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,

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Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen

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Speaker 1: to your favorite shows,