1
00:00:02,840 --> 00:00:06,880
Speaker 1: From Mediators World News headquarters in Bozeman, Montana. This is

2
00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:11,360
Speaker 1: Cal's weekend review, presented by Steel. Steel products are available

3
00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:15,200
Speaker 1: only at authorized dealers. For more, go to Steel Dealers

4
00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:20,720
Speaker 1: dot com. Now here's your host, Ryan cal Callahan.

5
00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:26,160
Speaker 2: Seventy three thousand dollars worth of Maryland blue crabs were

6
00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:28,760
Speaker 2: recently stolen out of the back of a truck in Philly,

7
00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:32,440
Speaker 2: which makes this the only group of people in Philly

8
00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:36,880
Speaker 2: actively trying to get crabs. That's just a short intro

9
00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:39,839
Speaker 2: to this week's episode, Ladies and gentlemen, because it is

10
00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:44,440
Speaker 2: a special addition. If you've been listening to this podcast

11
00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:48,280
Speaker 2: or following hunting related news, you know about the controversy

12
00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:52,040
Speaker 2: surrounding the Washington State Fish and Wildlife Commission. Much of

13
00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:55,440
Speaker 2: this controversy stems from the commission's decision in twenty twenty

14
00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:58,960
Speaker 2: one to suspend the spring bear hunt. The commissioners said

15
00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:02,320
Speaker 2: they couldn't rely on the bear population numbers provided by

16
00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:04,800
Speaker 2: the Department of Fish and Wildlife, and they felt it

17
00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:07,280
Speaker 2: was wise to end the hunt until they had a

18
00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:12,679
Speaker 2: better handle on those numbers. Hunters were understandably pretty darn upset.

19
00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:15,959
Speaker 2: They argue that the bear population was healthy and the

20
00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:19,040
Speaker 2: small number of bears taken during the spring had little

21
00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:22,840
Speaker 2: negative impact. They accused the Commission of being anti hunting,

22
00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:25,880
Speaker 2: and some of the commissioners haven't done much to dissuade

23
00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:30,000
Speaker 2: them on that notion. Commissioner Melanie Rowland, for example, said

24
00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:33,240
Speaker 2: that Hunter's quote should be nervous about the changes coming

25
00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:36,240
Speaker 2: down the pike. We covered her entire statement in episode

26
00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:39,800
Speaker 2: two twenty six if you're curious. Rather than speculate on

27
00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:43,480
Speaker 2: what the commissioners believe about hunting and wildlife management, I

28
00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:45,839
Speaker 2: wanted to get the straight skinny from the horse's mouth,

29
00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:48,280
Speaker 2: so to speak. Thanks to one of you who sent

30
00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:50,280
Speaker 2: in some contact info, we were able to get in

31
00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:54,120
Speaker 2: touch with Commissioner John Lemcule. John agreed to speak with us,

32
00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:56,960
Speaker 2: and I'm grateful that he did. We didn't agree on everything,

33
00:01:56,960 --> 00:01:59,400
Speaker 2: but he was at least willing to engage, which I

34
00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:04,440
Speaker 2: can't say about some of his colleagues. Several, including Melanie Roland,

35
00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:07,240
Speaker 2: declined our invitation. Before we got in touch with John.

36
00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:10,440
Speaker 2: We covered tons of topics, including the spring bear hunt,

37
00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:13,440
Speaker 2: how to manage non game species, and whether the Commission

38
00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:16,959
Speaker 2: plans to limit hunting opportunities in the future. If you've

39
00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:19,920
Speaker 2: been wondering what the heck is going on in Washington State,

40
00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:23,320
Speaker 2: this isn't an episode you're going to want to miss.

41
00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:28,360
Speaker 2: So John, Yeah, thank you very much for joining us today.

42
00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:31,600
Speaker 2: As we briefly mentioned prior to this, we've had a

43
00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:37,120
Speaker 2: lot of listener feedback regarding Washington Fishing Game, the Fishing

44
00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:42,960
Speaker 2: Game Commission, policy regulation changes, or frankly, a lot of

45
00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:50,399
Speaker 2: speculative guesses as to what policy changes or regulation changes

46
00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:53,560
Speaker 2: are going to be coming in the near future. So

47
00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:58,320
Speaker 2: thank you very much for joining us to shine some

48
00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:02,880
Speaker 2: light on what is going on. If you'd like to

49
00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:08,080
Speaker 2: just kind of give us a background, and certainly what

50
00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:12,800
Speaker 2: seat you sit in on the committee or maybe subcommittees

51
00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:14,920
Speaker 2: that you were a part of, would would certainly be

52
00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:16,200
Speaker 2: appreciated too.

53
00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:21,000
Speaker 3: Yeah. Great, Thanks, I appreciate the opportunity to talk to

54
00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:23,160
Speaker 3: you guys. I think one of my issues I've been

55
00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:26,440
Speaker 3: on the Commission for a year and three quarters or

56
00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:30,880
Speaker 3: so January last year, I started. Yeah, and I get

57
00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:32,840
Speaker 3: people calling me all the time saying, oh, can we

58
00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:36,680
Speaker 3: talk about stuff? But I haven't in the past gotten

59
00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:38,720
Speaker 3: a lot of and except for the last several months,

60
00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:40,720
Speaker 3: getting a lot of calls from the hunters since let's

61
00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:45,240
Speaker 3: talk about stuff. So I really want to. I want

62
00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:47,720
Speaker 3: to talk to all you guys and try and understand

63
00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:50,520
Speaker 3: where you're at and explain where we're at just a

64
00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:53,240
Speaker 3: little bit myself. You know, I sent you I've been

65
00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:56,240
Speaker 3: crazy about wildlife and hunting since I was a kid.

66
00:03:56,320 --> 00:03:58,320
Speaker 3: You know. I think I had a subscription Outdoor Life

67
00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:00,280
Speaker 3: when I was twelve or something like that. You know.

68
00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:04,440
Speaker 3: So I decided I wanted to be a wildlife biologist,

69
00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:07,920
Speaker 3: and so I went to school wildlife biology and studied

70
00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:10,839
Speaker 3: at Humboldt State in California and University of Montana, where

71
00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:13,520
Speaker 3: I studied elt for a master's degree, and I got

72
00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:16,880
Speaker 3: a PhD from in forest science and wildlife from University

73
00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:21,080
Speaker 3: of Washington. I studied mostly sort of grassland ecology and

74
00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:24,000
Speaker 3: large herbivores, and then I worked for the for Service

75
00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:26,040
Speaker 3: for I had a career with the Force Service for

76
00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:30,240
Speaker 3: about thirty years as a wildlife mostly as a research

77
00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:35,599
Speaker 3: scientist and mostly in winatche here in central Washington. Studied

78
00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:39,200
Speaker 3: mostly forest management and the impact on wildlife, and a

79
00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:41,520
Speaker 3: lot of that had to do with forest restoration and

80
00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:45,200
Speaker 3: spotted around, spotted ols and spotted out prey, but we

81
00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:48,960
Speaker 3: had studies on birds and small mammals, and I participated

82
00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:52,159
Speaker 3: with the department here on elk study. I did a

83
00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:55,080
Speaker 3: lot of landscape scale analyses and those kinds of things.

84
00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:58,760
Speaker 3: And I retired in twenty thirteen and did a lot

85
00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:01,680
Speaker 3: of other voluntary things, and somebody suggested I apply to

86
00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:04,760
Speaker 3: be on the commission. I thought, yeah, that'd be interesting.

87
00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:09,159
Speaker 3: I thought I had something to contribute because, like I said,

88
00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:13,040
Speaker 3: I've hunted and I've been a while AFE biologist. So

89
00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:13,799
Speaker 3: here I am.

90
00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:20,720
Speaker 2: What I'd speaking off off my perspective here that I

91
00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:25,440
Speaker 2: certainly appreciate the background and the diversity of the background,

92
00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:29,560
Speaker 2: all very consistent topics here on the week in Review.

93
00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:33,280
Speaker 2: So do you have a highlight of your hunting career

94
00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:36,919
Speaker 2: or an example of your your hunting background.

95
00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:43,080
Speaker 3: Oh? Yeah, I've hunded in oh California, Montana, New Mexico,

96
00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:47,360
Speaker 3: and Washington here since I lived here these days, probably

97
00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:50,760
Speaker 3: the last I don't know, fifteen twenty years or something.

98
00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:56,200
Speaker 3: I'm only I mainly do bird hunting, you know, dozants, chruckers, quail.

99
00:05:56,920 --> 00:05:58,840
Speaker 3: I've kind of gotten out of deer hunting. I used

100
00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:01,400
Speaker 3: to hunt deer and elk in Montana when I live

101
00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:04,360
Speaker 3: there in New Mexico, So that's sort of my focus.

102
00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:06,919
Speaker 3: I probably, you know, I have pretty much have a

103
00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:10,200
Speaker 3: license fishing and hunt lice hunting license every year and

104
00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:13,520
Speaker 3: sometimes I go turkey hunting. Sometimes I don't, but I

105
00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:17,200
Speaker 3: usually have the license anyway, and so that's sort of

106
00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:20,000
Speaker 3: my background for hunting. So I'm you know, I'm very

107
00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:24,839
Speaker 3: keen on hunting, and I think I understand hunters and fishermen,

108
00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:27,720
Speaker 3: and from my for service work, I think I sort

109
00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:30,360
Speaker 3: of understand the other side of the coin, the people

110
00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:33,200
Speaker 3: that aren't hunters and fishermen and what they're where they're

111
00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:36,000
Speaker 3: coming from. And I kind of look at myself that's

112
00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:38,680
Speaker 3: sort of in the middle, hopefully a centrist sort of

113
00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:40,880
Speaker 3: a person who can see both sides of the issues

114
00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:45,080
Speaker 3: and help broker some conversation between both sides of the

115
00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:47,520
Speaker 3: issues so that we can all sort of work together.

116
00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:52,720
Speaker 2: This will lead us into the topic that certainly our

117
00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:56,360
Speaker 2: listeners have written in the most about, which is why

118
00:06:56,560 --> 00:07:01,560
Speaker 2: be a centrist on a fishing game commission? At the

119
00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:06,320
Speaker 2: end of the day, who cares what that other side

120
00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:11,960
Speaker 2: that isn't buying fishing and hunting licenses cares about? The

121
00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:16,240
Speaker 2: hunters and anglers are the vested interest when it comes

122
00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:20,680
Speaker 2: to a fish and Game commission. So can you expand

123
00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:24,560
Speaker 2: on why you think it's important to be a centrist.

124
00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:28,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's important because, you know, our mandate

125
00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:32,240
Speaker 3: in the law is to and I can sort of

126
00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:34,960
Speaker 3: paraphrase what it says, is that these are the words

127
00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:41,200
Speaker 3: something like protect, preserve, enhance, and manage wildlife, fish and

128
00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:43,800
Speaker 3: wildlife in the state. So it's not and at the

129
00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:47,400
Speaker 3: same time maximizing or creating opportunity for people to hunt

130
00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:50,520
Speaker 3: and fish and to recreate, birdwatch and all kinds of things.

131
00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:54,160
Speaker 3: So we have a very broad mandate. It's not just

132
00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:58,800
Speaker 3: all about hunting. And in fact, many states different and

133
00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:02,880
Speaker 3: different in how they fund fishing wildlife departments like this

134
00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:05,480
Speaker 3: or fishing game departments as they call them. In some states,

135
00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:10,320
Speaker 3: some states like Arizona, their funding is solely on hunting

136
00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:13,560
Speaker 3: and fishing licenses and revenues and excise tax you know

137
00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:18,560
Speaker 3: Pittman robertson on on firearms. But in Washington State, because

138
00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:23,120
Speaker 3: we have such a broad mandate, probably about seventy percent

139
00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:27,520
Speaker 3: of our funding comes from the state legislature from state taxes,

140
00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:33,360
Speaker 3: and thirty percent comes from hunting and fishing revenues, license sales, Pittman, Robertson,

141
00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:38,000
Speaker 3: Dingle Johnson for fishing. So you know, we have a

142
00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:41,280
Speaker 3: very broad source of funding for what we do, and

143
00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:45,000
Speaker 3: a lot of what we do is directed by the

144
00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:48,280
Speaker 3: legislature of how we can spend our money in some cases,

145
00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:52,520
Speaker 3: and just for example, we got in the last legislative

146
00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:56,440
Speaker 3: session Washington, we got about thirty million dollars of new

147
00:08:56,480 --> 00:09:01,880
Speaker 3: funding for biodiversity conservation. We have a state Wildlife Action Plan.

148
00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:04,439
Speaker 3: Every state has a state Wildlife Action Plan. It's sort

149
00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:08,679
Speaker 3: of a federal program. And we have like two hundred

150
00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:13,520
Speaker 3: and fifty six species of conservation concern These are things

151
00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:18,960
Speaker 3: like spotted owls, burrowing owls, Martin fisher links, things like that,

152
00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:23,960
Speaker 3: none hundred species, salamanders, butterflies, all kinds of things. So

153
00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:26,800
Speaker 3: those are the things that we have to look after.

154
00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:30,640
Speaker 3: And so it's not just a question of you know,

155
00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:33,400
Speaker 3: who pays the most and who gets the most attention.

156
00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:37,720
Speaker 3: I think from my point of view, and I think

157
00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:40,800
Speaker 3: probably this commission as well. You know, hunters and fishermen

158
00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:46,040
Speaker 3: are important constituency, you know, for our department, and I

159
00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:50,800
Speaker 3: don't see any time in the future where we're hunting

160
00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:54,000
Speaker 3: and fishing is not going to be available in Washington State.

161
00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:58,520
Speaker 3: And I think I read the comments, and we hear

162
00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:01,840
Speaker 3: comments at all the commission meeting. We have look input sessions,

163
00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:06,600
Speaker 3: and just last week we had one and my comment was, well,

164
00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:10,640
Speaker 3: you know, in Washington State, since I've been on the Commission,

165
00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:14,360
Speaker 3: the hunting seasons except for this spring bear issue. We

166
00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:17,240
Speaker 3: can put that off to the side. The hunting seasons

167
00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:21,760
Speaker 3: haven't changed, the deer and elk seasons, small game, fall, bear,

168
00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:27,400
Speaker 3: cougar hunting, everything has basically been unchanged from previous years

169
00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:30,679
Speaker 3: except for small minor changes that depend on, you know,

170
00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:33,679
Speaker 3: how the deer out population is doing in different areas,

171
00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:38,160
Speaker 3: and so you know, we haven't reduced the hunting and

172
00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:41,640
Speaker 3: fishing opportunity in the state except for the spring bear thing.

173
00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:45,800
Speaker 3: And so I don't see that happening. And we get

174
00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:49,040
Speaker 3: accused of not following the science of our staff. Well,

175
00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:51,600
Speaker 3: in fact, we approve all those hunting and the fishing

176
00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:54,560
Speaker 3: seasons that are based on the scientific work that they're doing,

177
00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:58,320
Speaker 3: So I think we do follow the science. So I

178
00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:02,240
Speaker 3: think a lot of people the spring bear issue was

179
00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:05,600
Speaker 3: something that I mean, gosh, it was discussed by the

180
00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:07,360
Speaker 3: Commission even before I got on it.

181
00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:12,120
Speaker 2: And so you said you joined in January, and I

182
00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:18,040
Speaker 2: know your op ED. That's that's referenced quite off on. Yeah,

183
00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:21,679
Speaker 2: I came out in February, so you were jumped right

184
00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:26,839
Speaker 2: into the spring bear debate or however you want to

185
00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:29,000
Speaker 2: put it. But would you like to expand on that

186
00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:29,800
Speaker 2: a little bit.

187
00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:33,200
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, my op ED came out in February this year.

188
00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:36,440
Speaker 3: You know, the debate started in actually at the end

189
00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:39,240
Speaker 3: of twenty twenty one before I got on the Commission.

190
00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:42,880
Speaker 3: And what I tried to do, I mean, it was

191
00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:46,880
Speaker 3: a very difficult process. And what I tried to do

192
00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:50,280
Speaker 3: in that op ED was sort of summarize what I

193
00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:55,240
Speaker 3: think are the differing positions on the hunt and you know,

194
00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:59,160
Speaker 3: how people viewed it and how they voted on it.

195
00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:02,120
Speaker 3: And I tried to do that in reference to the

196
00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:05,400
Speaker 3: North American model of wildlife management, because we got a

197
00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:07,880
Speaker 3: lot of we get a lot of comments about, well,

198
00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:10,720
Speaker 3: the North American model wilife management has been very successful,

199
00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:13,199
Speaker 3: and so why are you going away from it? You know,

200
00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:16,240
Speaker 3: we should be hunting and fishing and we can solve

201
00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:19,280
Speaker 3: all the problems management problems that you have to deal with,

202
00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:24,600
Speaker 3: and so I tried to use that model to frame

203
00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:27,080
Speaker 3: that question, the spring bear question. And I think if

204
00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:30,040
Speaker 3: you read that, you can use the principles in the

205
00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:34,760
Speaker 3: North American model to come up with either outcome, either

206
00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:36,480
Speaker 3: have the hunt or don't have the hunt. So I

207
00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:38,680
Speaker 3: think it's not so cut and the point was it's

208
00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:41,880
Speaker 3: not so cut and dried of an issue.

209
00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:45,280
Speaker 2: I do think John I apologized for cutting you off there.

210
00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:49,840
Speaker 2: I do think I certainly appreciated your point by a

211
00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:52,840
Speaker 2: point on the North American model in the op ED.

212
00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:57,160
Speaker 2: And I think, like you know, like a lot of things,

213
00:12:57,200 --> 00:13:01,600
Speaker 2: certainly not specific to the hunting and fishing world, there's

214
00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:07,600
Speaker 2: a lot of phrases that get thrown around without any

215
00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:12,400
Speaker 2: deeper understanding of what they actually mean. And the North

216
00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:17,360
Speaker 2: American model certainly is one of those things. People know

217
00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:21,240
Speaker 2: that it exists, and typically we like to talk about

218
00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:26,160
Speaker 2: it when it's serving our best purposes. Right, I do

219
00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:30,959
Speaker 2: understand that. I think my listener base will certainly also

220
00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:35,640
Speaker 2: understand that the science can work for and against us.

221
00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:42,000
Speaker 2: So the interesting piece of the op ED and this

222
00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:46,360
Speaker 2: certainly goes into like the Colorado example of wolves that's

223
00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:50,440
Speaker 2: currently going right now and Colorado in general. Is this

224
00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:56,000
Speaker 2: citizens initiative where you know, in your op ed you

225
00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:58,439
Speaker 2: said the question of whether or not to have a

226
00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:04,839
Speaker 2: spring bear season was solved by this citizen's initiative. By that,

227
00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:07,040
Speaker 2: I think you mean it was just taken off the

228
00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:10,800
Speaker 2: table from the legislative side of things, and then the

229
00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:16,000
Speaker 2: game Commission didn't have to actually make that decision. But

230
00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:22,440
Speaker 2: with your background as a biologist, do you think that

231
00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:26,400
Speaker 2: that is a way to solve things through citizens initiative?

232
00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:30,320
Speaker 3: No, I don't think initiatives are a good way to

233
00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:33,480
Speaker 3: solve any problem, whether it's you know, a wildlife problem

234
00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:38,440
Speaker 3: or any magic mushrooms anything. Yeah, I don't think it's

235
00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:43,520
Speaker 3: the solution because I don't think it promotes a good

236
00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:46,560
Speaker 3: discussion of all the issues and the different parties coming

237
00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:49,080
Speaker 3: together and trying to come to a solution. So what

238
00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:51,920
Speaker 3: I've said in relation to these kinds of issues, I said,

239
00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:55,680
Speaker 3: you know, we need to be able to discuss the issues,

240
00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:58,200
Speaker 3: look at the pros and cons of all the issues,

241
00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:00,440
Speaker 3: and come up with some sort of a solution cells

242
00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:05,600
Speaker 3: Because if we can't do that, then you know, somebody

243
00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:08,240
Speaker 3: will come up with an initiative or the legislature will

244
00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:10,920
Speaker 3: pass a law, or some judge will make a ruling

245
00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:14,520
Speaker 3: that says you can't do this, and so it's basically

246
00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:18,040
Speaker 3: taken out of our hands. And I think initiatives are

247
00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:21,920
Speaker 3: a very imperfect way of making decisions because you have

248
00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:25,160
Speaker 3: I think most people that vote on them don't vote

249
00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:29,560
Speaker 3: based on sort of a reasoned analysis of all the issues.

250
00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:31,920
Speaker 3: They just sort of vote on sort of emotion. Well, yeah,

251
00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:34,640
Speaker 3: it sounds good. I don't like bear hunting, so I'm

252
00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:37,280
Speaker 3: going to vote against it. They don't think of all

253
00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:41,160
Speaker 3: the nuances. So I think that we need to try

254
00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:44,560
Speaker 3: and come together to figure out how we can come

255
00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:48,640
Speaker 3: up with solutions or management solutions that address all of

256
00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:52,880
Speaker 3: our concerns, you know. So it's like Colorado is an

257
00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:56,200
Speaker 3: example of the way I read the series is that

258
00:15:56,840 --> 00:15:59,840
Speaker 3: the issue was that the people that were against spring

259
00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:02,880
Speaker 3: by hunting and running bears with hounds. They approached the

260
00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:05,520
Speaker 3: Wildlife Commission in the department saying, we think you need

261
00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:08,040
Speaker 3: to change the seasons or you need to do something different.

262
00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:12,440
Speaker 3: They had some negotiation and the non hunting group says, well,

263
00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:16,520
Speaker 3: we're willing to have a spring bear hunt, but we

264
00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:19,800
Speaker 3: don't want to hunt bears with hounds or have baiting,

265
00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:23,920
Speaker 3: and the Department and the Commission disagreed among themselves and

266
00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:28,160
Speaker 3: they couldn't then come to an agreement with the non

267
00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:31,760
Speaker 3: hunting group, and so the non hunting group just said, Okay,

268
00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:33,960
Speaker 3: you guys can't agree, we can't come to a solution.

269
00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:36,960
Speaker 3: We're just going to put it on the ballot and

270
00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:41,560
Speaker 3: have an initiative. And it was probably pretty certain that

271
00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:45,160
Speaker 3: they would win, because you know, most of the public

272
00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:48,240
Speaker 3: are not hunting and they don't understand hunting. So that's

273
00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:50,360
Speaker 3: why I don't think we need I don't think the

274
00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:54,400
Speaker 3: initiatives are a good solution for it. I know there's

275
00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:57,040
Speaker 3: going to be an initiative in Colorado about cougar hunting

276
00:16:57,040 --> 00:16:59,800
Speaker 3: that's going to be coming up, trying to ban cougar hunting.

277
00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:05,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the power of a couple of teary eyed

278
00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:10,600
Speaker 2: cougar kittens on a billboard is typically a lot stronger

279
00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:14,080
Speaker 2: for the non hunting public than listening to two people

280
00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:22,040
Speaker 2: talk about personal experience. Right right, Since we have this

281
00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:29,119
Speaker 2: non hunting topic, John, what type of vested interest do

282
00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:35,280
Speaker 2: like the non hunting public hold With the Washington Game Commission.

283
00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:40,840
Speaker 2: We covered the funding side of things. So certainly we

284
00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:44,720
Speaker 2: can assume they have to be listened to because of

285
00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:49,600
Speaker 2: the funding side. But I guess where I struggle is

286
00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:54,320
Speaker 2: are they a legitimate user group if they are coming

287
00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:59,800
Speaker 2: to the commission just as a non hunting group versus

288
00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:04,840
Speaker 2: you know, bird watchers. The Autobahn Society certainly, in my

289
00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:09,399
Speaker 2: point of view, has a seat at the table because

290
00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:11,359
Speaker 2: they do a lot of refuge work and they have

291
00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:15,120
Speaker 2: shown that they are a committed group for birds.

292
00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:20,680
Speaker 3: Right, well, I think that, yeah, I think everybody deserves

293
00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:22,760
Speaker 3: a seat at the table, people who are interested in

294
00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:26,760
Speaker 3: wildlife if we're talking about you know, taxpayer money funding

295
00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:31,240
Speaker 3: the department, And I think that the question then becomes

296
00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:34,119
Speaker 3: at how much say should they have? Is it just

297
00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:38,320
Speaker 3: people that pay have to say or not? And so

298
00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:40,680
Speaker 3: then how do you parse out, you know, who gets

299
00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:42,840
Speaker 3: the most influenced. And I don't know if that's a

300
00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:45,760
Speaker 3: really useful way of sort of trying to figure out

301
00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:49,240
Speaker 3: how you make decisions, because it's very difficult to say.

302
00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:54,600
Speaker 3: You know, I haven't seen any anything that sort of

303
00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:59,639
Speaker 3: describes the different financial contributions to different user groups to

304
00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:03,040
Speaker 3: wild life. You know, it's sort of like, you know,

305
00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:06,840
Speaker 3: wildlife is a public resource. It's in the public trust,

306
00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:09,640
Speaker 3: and so we're responsible for managing it for the public.

307
00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:13,080
Speaker 3: So I guess the question then is, you know who

308
00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:16,480
Speaker 3: is the public and so you know, this public trust

309
00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:19,160
Speaker 3: doctrine is the first principle in the North American model

310
00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:22,960
Speaker 3: of wilife conservation. But the difficulty of that is just

311
00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:26,360
Speaker 3: as I said, you know, well, does somebody get more

312
00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:29,080
Speaker 3: of a say in how you manage that public trust?

313
00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:32,920
Speaker 3: And I think in terms of the hunters and fishermen

314
00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:36,840
Speaker 3: that their contributions and their content, their past and continuing

315
00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:40,239
Speaker 3: contributions are certainly going to be recognized, and I just

316
00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:46,359
Speaker 3: can't foresee hunting and fishing going away or being reduced substantially.

317
00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:49,320
Speaker 3: There are going to be fights, I'm sure there's going

318
00:19:49,359 --> 00:19:51,280
Speaker 3: to be fights, you know, just as they're going to

319
00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:54,679
Speaker 3: see in Colorado this year about cougar hunting. There's going

320
00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:57,600
Speaker 3: to be fights about whether or how much we should

321
00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:00,800
Speaker 3: be hunting cougars or bears, or even elk and deer

322
00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:03,840
Speaker 3: for that matter. But I think that's our challenge is

323
00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:07,480
Speaker 3: to is to figure out what is best for the

324
00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:11,040
Speaker 3: resource for the first the main thing, and then what

325
00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:15,760
Speaker 3: addresses the interests of the other of every group, you know,

326
00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:18,200
Speaker 3: just sort of sum it up. I really don't see

327
00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:23,040
Speaker 3: changes in the hunting opportunity in Washington State. There may

328
00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:27,240
Speaker 3: be some changes just in terms of our better understanding

329
00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:30,960
Speaker 3: the wildlife populations or ecology, or new pressures that we

330
00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:33,480
Speaker 3: haven't had in the past in terms of habitat loss

331
00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:37,200
Speaker 3: and population growth. They're a huge in Washington State. In

332
00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:41,080
Speaker 3: a way, they're a huge recreational impact on wildlife, particularly

333
00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:43,760
Speaker 3: since COVID I had a lot of people deciding that

334
00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:48,480
Speaker 3: they like to recreate outside, and so our wildlife areas,

335
00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:52,280
Speaker 3: our state wildlife management areas, some of them have a

336
00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:55,439
Speaker 3: tremendous amount of pressure, so that has to be managed.

337
00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:57,800
Speaker 3: But that's become a new sort of user group. So

338
00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:03,240
Speaker 3: how do you balance that use in hunting together. It's it's,

339
00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:05,680
Speaker 3: you know, it's quite a challenge. But I mean, the

340
00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:08,160
Speaker 3: short of it for the hunters is, I don't understand

341
00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:10,640
Speaker 3: why people are alarmed that you know, I've heard these

342
00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:15,320
Speaker 3: things that you know, Washington is a hot spot of

343
00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:19,320
Speaker 3: anti hunter activism and that kind of thing, and you know, sure,

344
00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:21,919
Speaker 3: I think I don't have any real strong data, but

345
00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:24,800
Speaker 3: I don't think there's any any more or any less

346
00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:27,840
Speaker 3: anti hunting activism in Washington State than there is in

347
00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:31,119
Speaker 3: other states. A survey was done by the National Shooting

348
00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:35,440
Speaker 3: Sports Foundation, which is you know as a firearms industry foundation,

349
00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:38,800
Speaker 3: and of course they support hunting and have found nationally

350
00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:42,840
Speaker 3: eighty percent of the population supports hunting as a legitimate pursuit,

351
00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:46,919
Speaker 3: and I think of Washington is about the same. I

352
00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:49,520
Speaker 3: think of survey that the Department did shows about seventy

353
00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:52,040
Speaker 3: five to eighty percent. So I think there's plenty of

354
00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:55,680
Speaker 3: support for hunting in the state. It's not like there's

355
00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:58,080
Speaker 3: going to be initiative that bands hunting. I don't think,

356
00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:03,520
Speaker 3: and you know, I'm not interested in reducing the opportunities

357
00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:06,840
Speaker 3: for hunter and fishermen, and I don't think. I don't

358
00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:08,760
Speaker 3: think it's going to happen next year. You know, the

359
00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:12,440
Speaker 3: controversy one of your questions there is about eliminating cougar

360
00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:15,960
Speaker 3: and bear hunting and changing the hunting to permit only

361
00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:19,720
Speaker 3: you know, those were just those All those rumors came

362
00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:23,080
Speaker 3: out of a couple of comments that were made a

363
00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:26,880
Speaker 3: month or two ago to Wildlife Committee meeting as part

364
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:30,800
Speaker 3: of the commission about just sort of a general ideas

365
00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:35,000
Speaker 3: of you know, the staff now is revising the game

366
00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:38,199
Speaker 3: management plan, which is done supposedly every five six years.

367
00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:43,080
Speaker 3: They have new data on cougar on bear populations, and

368
00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:45,119
Speaker 3: so there's a question about, you know, are we going

369
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:47,960
Speaker 3: to be changing any management and so then it sort

370
00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:51,280
Speaker 3: of spun out of control on the internet that yeah,

371
00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:54,439
Speaker 3: we're gonna we're talking about doing that, but we have

372
00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:58,720
Speaker 3: not the commission. We haven't received any sort of formal

373
00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:02,920
Speaker 3: presentation of the hunting seasons for next year from the staff.

374
00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:07,640
Speaker 3: So that was all just sort of conversation before we'd

375
00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:10,600
Speaker 3: even seen anything. So I think, you know, we haven't

376
00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:13,520
Speaker 3: discussed it. We haven't seen any information from the staff,

377
00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:17,040
Speaker 3: the science or the recommendations on the seasons. But I

378
00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:19,480
Speaker 3: don't think. I don't know if they're going to change

379
00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:22,080
Speaker 3: or not. But I would be surprised if they could change.

380
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:28,480
Speaker 2: Sure, And you know I've I actually got drug onto

381
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:35,640
Speaker 2: a friends podcast last year talking about Washington Spring Bear,

382
00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:41,719
Speaker 2: and I agreed with the management aspect of hey, we

383
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:46,800
Speaker 2: haven't done a formal population study, so we don't actually

384
00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:50,879
Speaker 2: know what the impacts are of any level of take

385
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:56,479
Speaker 2: from a science perspective, however, I think it would be

386
00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:03,960
Speaker 2: very easy to assume that the anecdotal evidence of you know,

387
00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:10,399
Speaker 2: black bear conflict in certain counties or statewide, even you

388
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:15,960
Speaker 2: could pull a number that says we could probably have

389
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:19,760
Speaker 2: this much of a hunt. An assumption that I find

390
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:23,080
Speaker 2: non hunters make all the time is that a tag

391
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:28,720
Speaker 2: does not represent an opportunity to legally hunt, but a

392
00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:34,360
Speaker 2: tag represents a dead animal. I have a literal pillowcase

393
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:39,280
Speaker 2: full of tags that do not represent dead animals from

394
00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:42,439
Speaker 2: my hunting career in my basement right now that I

395
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:46,479
Speaker 2: just kind of keep as a reminder of that. And so,

396
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:52,440
Speaker 2: you know, it is very alarming when you have, let's

397
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:57,280
Speaker 2: call it a centrist perspective in the hunting crowd that says, oh, yeah,

398
00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:02,440
Speaker 2: science dictates our management, and then we play. We as

399
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:06,800
Speaker 2: hunters play a role in that management. But there wasn't

400
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 2: a need to say we went from a spring hunt

401
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:14,560
Speaker 2: to no hunt at all, because we have a history

402
00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:18,480
Speaker 2: of once we lose something, it doesn't come back, and

403
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:22,080
Speaker 2: plenty of examples of that. So I think, you know,

404
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:25,760
Speaker 2: that was a legitimate cause for alarm. Slash is a

405
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:30,040
Speaker 2: legitimate cause for alarm. Just I would love to know, like,

406
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:36,199
Speaker 2: what is the definition of a sport hunt in the

407
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:41,320
Speaker 2: state of Washington. And does that definition take into account

408
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 2: those people? Birds would be a terrible example, but elk, certainly,

409
00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:51,359
Speaker 2: you know that becomes a pretty big knock off the

410
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:57,960
Speaker 2: grocery bill, particularly when you have access to an evy elk. Right,

411
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:03,280
Speaker 2: And are those families, those individuals being taken into account

412
00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 2: when we throw that word sport hunt.

413
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:10,520
Speaker 3: Around, right? Well, I guess the difference I see. I

414
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:13,920
Speaker 3: don't think we have any really working definitions of what

415
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 3: is sport hunting or recreation hunting versus the alternative. And

416
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:20,199
Speaker 3: the way I look at it is that you know,

417
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:23,239
Speaker 3: we had a sort of a big conversation around on

418
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:28,440
Speaker 3: disputes around the use recreational hunting. Well, you could look

419
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 3: at it two ways. One, recreational hunting is just basically

420
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:33,880
Speaker 3: doing it for the fun of it, and it's sustainable.

421
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:37,880
Speaker 3: You get other benefits like meeting your freezer, you take

422
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:42,200
Speaker 3: your family out and enjoy the opportunity and being out

423
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 3: in nature. That's all good. The difference I think between

424
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 3: and you can use rec the difference is that you

425
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 3: can have a hunt that's meant to address specific management needs. So,

426
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:59,400
Speaker 3: for example, you have elk that are damaging crops nearby,

427
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:01,760
Speaker 3: you know, a fields and such like that. So you

428
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:05,480
Speaker 3: have a special hunt that addresses that management need. You

429
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:09,000
Speaker 3: use sport hunters recreational hunters to achieve a management objective,

430
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:11,680
Speaker 3: but you know, a lot of a lot of hunting

431
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:16,000
Speaker 3: is not specifically designed to achieve us a management objective.

432
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:19,119
Speaker 3: So for like deer an elk, you know, we estimate

433
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 3: the population, we estimate what the what the allowable harvest

434
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 3: could be. We allow hunters who go out there and

435
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:29,720
Speaker 3: harvest those animals. Our management in that case is not

436
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 3: really addressing some specific thing like crop damage or you know,

437
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:38,119
Speaker 3: timber damage with bears or anything like that. It's just

438
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 3: allowing people to go out and have a have a

439
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:43,879
Speaker 3: hunt to do what they like. So that's, to me,

440
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:47,199
Speaker 3: is the essential difference between just a sport hunt and

441
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,400
Speaker 3: one hunt that achieves management objectives. It's not to say

442
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:53,399
Speaker 3: that you you you can't. You can use sport hunting

443
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:56,440
Speaker 3: to achieve management objectives, but what is the primary focus

444
00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 3: of it.

445
00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:00,920
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't disagree with that, the I guess

446
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:04,400
Speaker 2: the issue comes up right in this broader social narrative

447
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:12,200
Speaker 2: where you have people who associate hunting with the food aspect.

448
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 2: And that eighty percent of support largely focuses on that,

449
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:21,640
Speaker 2: and then you have people who focus on hunting from

450
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:25,159
Speaker 2: the sport aspect and it is not associated with food,

451
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:28,119
Speaker 2: and it can be spun in a million different ways,

452
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:31,639
Speaker 2: with the end result being we don't want people to

453
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 2: hunt furry and cute animals.

454
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:38,600
Speaker 3: No. I think people going out and hunting for meat

455
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 3: or for just the enjoyment of doing it, those are

456
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,680
Speaker 3: all good things. You know. One final thing that I'd

457
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 3: like to say is we the Commission has put up

458
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 3: this policy, a conservation policy, and it's been puzzling to

459
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 3: me why it's so controversial because basically it basically focuses

460
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:01,200
Speaker 3: on what our mandate is. And I think it could

461
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 3: have been written better so that people can read that

462
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 3: and see themselves in there as a conservationists. So, you know,

463
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:12,760
Speaker 3: every group that I talk to, hunters, non hunters, everybody says, well,

464
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:16,960
Speaker 3: we're conservationists and we're working on a revision of this

465
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:21,880
Speaker 3: conservation policy and hopefully when people read it, they'll see

466
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 3: themselves in there as a you know that we're not

467
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:29,400
Speaker 3: forgetting about them, the tribes, the hunters, the non hunters, everybody.

468
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 3: And I think the value of this is that we're

469
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:36,760
Speaker 3: all interested in wildlife. Hunters, non hunters, Lots of people

470
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:40,360
Speaker 3: have a passion for wildlife, right. We all have different

471
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 3: approaches to you know, what that passion means to us

472
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:46,640
Speaker 3: and how we satisfy it. But I think we can

473
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 3: all agree that we we want to have wildlife as

474
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:51,360
Speaker 3: part of our life and we want to have it

475
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 3: sustain it into the future. And I think this conservation policy,

476
00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 3: in my mind, is one thing that we can agree

477
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:02,320
Speaker 3: on all the different people people that, yeah, conservation is

478
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:06,080
Speaker 3: our goal. We approach it in different ways. Hunters approach

479
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:08,320
Speaker 3: it one way, the tribes approach it one way, the

480
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:10,920
Speaker 3: non hunters, the bird watchers approach it another way. But

481
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 3: we're all interested in conservation because that's the basis of

482
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 3: sustaining the population wildlife that we know and love. So

483
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 3: that's just my take on this conservation policy, and I

484
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 3: hope that hunters can get behind it, because I think

485
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:27,720
Speaker 3: if we can't agree on that, it's going to be

486
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 3: hard to do anything. You know, we're going to be

487
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 3: fighting all the time. But I'd like to see one

488
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:34,440
Speaker 3: thing that we agree on.

489
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:38,440
Speaker 2: It's rare to find somebody who really likes to hunt anything,

490
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:42,600
Speaker 2: and they want to see less of it. So to

491
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 2: jump back to one of the things that you said

492
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:47,560
Speaker 2: at the very beginning is you haven't heard a lot

493
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:52,920
Speaker 2: from hunters. What is you know, the best way for

494
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:58,720
Speaker 2: the hunting community to effectively engage with the Washington State

495
00:30:58,800 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 2: Game Commission.

496
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 3: Well, I think, you know, they certainly can come and

497
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:09,720
Speaker 3: either and give input online at the meetings or attend

498
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:11,560
Speaker 3: to the meetings. And we get a lot of people

499
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:12,040
Speaker 3: that do that.

500
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 1: You know.

501
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:15,680
Speaker 3: A few months ago when we had it in Seattle,

502
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:18,160
Speaker 3: like I just I kind of went off the rails

503
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 3: a little bit, you know, and as a result of

504
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 3: sort of challenging the people that were there, the hunters, basically,

505
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 3: that's when I said, well, I never hear from you guys.

506
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:30,719
Speaker 3: You never call me to talk with me. You complain

507
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:32,520
Speaker 3: that I talk to all these other people, but they

508
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 3: call me or they send me a note and say,

509
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:36,760
Speaker 3: can we have a zoom call with you guys the

510
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:39,920
Speaker 3: Seeer Club or watching Wildlife First or whatever. So sure,

511
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:42,520
Speaker 3: I'll talk with anybody. So as a result of that,

512
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:44,520
Speaker 3: a number of them, you know, they I talked to

513
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 3: them afterwards, and they sent me emails and say, hey,

514
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:50,040
Speaker 3: can we have a zoom call just doing exactly what

515
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:52,960
Speaker 3: I'm doing with you today. So I think the best

516
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:55,200
Speaker 3: way to contact me is to send a message to

517
00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 3: the Commission, or you can send a message to me

518
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:03,120
Speaker 3: John dot Lemco at DFW dot wall dot com and

519
00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:06,760
Speaker 3: ask about having a conversation just like you guys did.

520
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 3: And sure, I'm willing to do that whenever.

521
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:13,880
Speaker 2: I mean, that really is the bulk of the sentiment, right,

522
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:20,120
Speaker 2: there's some real fear, and I think legitimate in some ways,

523
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:25,960
Speaker 2: of an erosion of the ability of hunters and hunters

524
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 2: families to go out and hunt like they have for ever.

525
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:35,160
Speaker 2: And you have a certainly from a Montana kid's perspective

526
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:38,040
Speaker 2: of a state like Washington, I'd really love to see

527
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:40,360
Speaker 2: it fix all of it and make sure hunters are

528
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:42,280
Speaker 2: happy there because they keep coming over here.

529
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:45,880
Speaker 3: The thing about Washington is we have the second highest

530
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:49,959
Speaker 3: population of the Western States and the smallest state area,

531
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 3: so we have a pretty high density of people, and

532
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 3: so we have more challenges than Montana and Idaho in

533
00:32:55,960 --> 00:33:01,480
Speaker 3: terms of managing wildlife populations, managing growth of you know,

534
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:05,479
Speaker 3: human population in their footprint. So we'll try and fix it.

535
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:07,640
Speaker 3: We'd like to keep them all stay at home.

536
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:11,880
Speaker 2: But well, I'm going to come over there in December

537
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:18,920
Speaker 2: and participate in the late archery cow El Khan on

538
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:23,680
Speaker 2: the coast for but we're trying to specifically target animals

539
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 2: with hoof disease.

540
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, good. See there's a hunt with a management perspective,

541
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:32,800
Speaker 3: you know, solving a problem using recreational hunters. I mean,

542
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:36,320
Speaker 3: that's I totally agree with that. If we have a

543
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 3: management objective and we can use hunters, let's use hunters

544
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 3: instead of paying somebody to go out and shoot animals

545
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:44,760
Speaker 3: wildlife services or however.

546
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:48,479
Speaker 2: So all right, well, thank you very much and have

547
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 2: a great rest of your season. Thank you so much

548
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:58,320
Speaker 2: for listening. Remember to write in to ask c A L.

549
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:02,080
Speaker 2: That's ask col the Meteater dot com and let me

550
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:03,920
Speaker 2: know what's going on in your neck of the woods.

551
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:07,040
Speaker 2: We really appreciate it. Would love to hear your thoughts

552
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 2: on the recent interview and so much more. On top

553
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 2: of that, go to www dot steel Dealers dot com

554
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 2: to find a local, knowledgeable steel dealer near you. They're

555
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 2: gonna get you set up with what you need and

556
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:21,280
Speaker 2: they won't try to send you home with what you don't.

557
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:23,640
Speaker 2: Thanks again, and i'll talk to you next week.