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Speaker 1: Hi, and welcome back to another new episode of You

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Speaker 1: Need Therapy. My name is Kat and I'm the host here.

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Speaker 1: It's another solo episode day here, and this week we're

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Speaker 1: talking about something that I've talked about a little bit before,

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Speaker 1: but I've never actually dedicated an entire episode about it

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Speaker 1: on here, and I think it is about time, because

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Speaker 1: there's enough information around it that it could be not

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Speaker 1: only its own episode, but a series. It could beat

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Speaker 1: its own podcast, probably, but we're not gonna do that.

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Speaker 1: Before we get going, quick reminder that this is not therapy.

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Speaker 1: This is just me, a therapist talking about, you know,

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Speaker 1: things that have to do with mental health and things

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Speaker 1: I have to do with therapy. And also quick reminder

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Speaker 1: while we're here, if you want to follow me, you

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Speaker 1: can on Instagram at cat dot de fata, or you

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Speaker 1: can follow the podcast at You Need Therapy Podcast. And

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Speaker 1: if you want to really really make me happy and

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Speaker 1: make my day, and by the way, it's my birthday week.

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Speaker 1: My birthday is on Saturday, so if you really want

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Speaker 1: to give me a birthday gift, you can scroll to

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Speaker 1: me and hopefully give me five stars. And if you

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Speaker 1: feel called to give a little comment, put a little

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Speaker 1: comment on there. I love it. I appreciate those. And

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Speaker 1: if you have questions or constructive feedback, you can send

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Speaker 1: that to me personally. You can send it to my

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Speaker 1: email Catherine at You Need Therapy Podcast dot com. And

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Speaker 1: if you have questions for couch Talks, which is the

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Speaker 1: Wednesday episode where I answer questions that you guys send in,

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Speaker 1: send them there. Catherine K A t h R y

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Speaker 1: N at You Need Therapy Podcast dot com. Okay, now

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Speaker 1: let's get into the episode. So we're talking about all

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Speaker 1: things gas lighting today. And again I'm pretty sure we

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Speaker 1: talked about this a little bit when we covered narcissism

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Speaker 1: in a full episode that came out last I think

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Speaker 1: it was December. However, we didn't spend that much time

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Speaker 1: on it, and I hear this word being said now

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Speaker 1: more than ever, so I think it's important that we

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Speaker 1: stop and take some time to figure this out so

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Speaker 1: we can spot it ourselves and know when this is

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Speaker 1: actually occurring and when we maybe just might be using

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Speaker 1: the fancy word right. And we'll get to this later,

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Speaker 1: but there's a difference in the technique somebody uses when

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Speaker 1: attempting to create a gas lighting effect on somebody and

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Speaker 1: the actual experience of being gas lit gas lighted. I'm

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Speaker 1: not sure if which is correct. So anyway, somebody like

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Speaker 1: for example, somebody denying something alone doesn't mean that they're

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Speaker 1: gaslighting you, but it could be part of it. So

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Speaker 1: we'll get more into that later. But that's one of

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Speaker 1: the things that I wanted to talk about. And then

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Speaker 1: also I just have to say I have a personal

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Speaker 1: I guess I wouldn't call it connection to gaslighting, but

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Speaker 1: I've experienced at firsthand a while ago in a relationship

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Speaker 1: that the time was very important to me, and I

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Speaker 1: have so much love and care for the girl, the

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Speaker 1: human that went through that experience and didn't know what

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Speaker 1: was happening. And since then, I found myself in relationships,

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Speaker 1: whether they're dating or friendships or work related. Why I

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Speaker 1: found myself in similar situations and had similar feelings, And

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Speaker 1: because I understand what this is now, I'm better able

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Speaker 1: to separate myself from it so I don't get caught

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Speaker 1: in the same I guess trap, and I've been able

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Speaker 1: to get out and not get caught up in that,

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Speaker 1: and so that's one of the reasons I think this

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Speaker 1: is so valuable because I wish I had this information

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Speaker 1: back then. I don't know what it would have done

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Speaker 1: or how it would have shifted because I was a

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Speaker 1: different person back then, but I just know that it

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Speaker 1: would have been valuable. And so I just want you

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Speaker 1: guys to know if you have feelings of like, oh

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Speaker 1: this is me, or like I felt this, or there's

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Speaker 1: any shame that might come up, like, I want you

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Speaker 1: to know that I've been there. I've totally been there.

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Speaker 1: So what is gaslighting? Well, and the most basic definition,

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Speaker 1: gaslighting is a form of psychological abuse, and it's where

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Speaker 1: a person tries and successfully usually does, make someone question

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Speaker 1: their sanity or perception or their reality. And when you

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Speaker 1: experience gas letting, you're going to feel confused, You'll probably

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Speaker 1: feel some anxiousness, and you stop being able to trust yourself. However,

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Speaker 1: when this starts, you don't actually know that you're being

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Speaker 1: gas lit, so those feelings feel very like accurate and true.

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Speaker 1: It's not like an anxious I know I'm right and

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Speaker 1: this person won't agree with you. It's this anxiousness around

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Speaker 1: like I really started to question myself. And this kind

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Speaker 1: of manipulation doesn't just get thrown at you. So it

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Speaker 1: doesn't work that way. It doesn't start all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: It slowly kind of creeps up, and very often it

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Speaker 1: starts with a love bombing experience, especially when this happens

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Speaker 1: in romantic relationships. And I didn't say this up top,

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Speaker 1: but gas letting can happen in any kind of relationship.

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Speaker 1: A lot of times we hear stories about it being

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Speaker 1: in um romantic relationships and partnerships, but this can be friends,

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Speaker 1: this can be a boss, this can be um, a parent,

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Speaker 1: it can be a leader of any sort. There's a

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Speaker 1: power differential there, but there's usual really a experience of

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Speaker 1: this love bombing effect first. And we hear about love

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Speaker 1: bombing and romantic relationships mostly too, but love bombing also

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Speaker 1: can happen in any of those other experiences, right, And

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Speaker 1: and I went through in more detail what love bombing

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Speaker 1: is in the episode that we did on Love Addiction

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Speaker 1: with Melanie Reese that came out earlier this year. But

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Speaker 1: we'll talk about a second here, And it's when a

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Speaker 1: relationship starts with like big bombs of admiration and attention. Again,

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Speaker 1: doesn't just have to be in romantic relationships. We see

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Speaker 1: that a lot though, And it can be kind of similar,

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Speaker 1: which is confusing um with how relationships are portrayed in

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Speaker 1: Hollywood and movies and stuff, which again it's not very

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Speaker 1: helpful because we see that all the time and we

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Speaker 1: see as normal. But it's like that I'm obsessed with

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Speaker 1: you from day one right. Any time that happens, let

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Speaker 1: that be an important red flag. Like when the people

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Speaker 1: are where that person is like all in and all

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Speaker 1: about you from the day they met you. You're the

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Speaker 1: greatest person ever. They're the greatest person I've ever met.

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Speaker 1: You're the best at this that I've ever experience, And

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Speaker 1: it's like all the sudden, it's it's like an overwhelming

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Speaker 1: amount of love for someone, and for someone with an

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Speaker 1: anxious attachment style, this is very much appreciated, which is

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Speaker 1: super hard. It also, this love bombing is like a

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Speaker 1: foreshadowing to being gaslight. Right. They win you over with

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Speaker 1: their affection and you begin to trust them and believe

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Speaker 1: that you have this incredible fairytale bond and then dune

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Speaker 1: undone they start to turn the tables, but they have

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Speaker 1: that backstory for you to hold onto, because how often

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Speaker 1: do we hear ourselves saying it was so good in

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Speaker 1: the beginning or they were so kind of the beginning.

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Speaker 1: I know we can get back there, but was that real?

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Speaker 1: Was that really them? Or was that the beginning of

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Speaker 1: them trying to get you to where they wanted you

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Speaker 1: to be? Scary question, hard question. I don't like that question. Backstory,

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Speaker 1: I find this interesting. But people are like, what does

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Speaker 1: gas letting come from? Well, it comes from a play

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Speaker 1: that then got turned into a movie. I've never seen

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Speaker 1: this movie. It's called Gaslight. And what happens in the

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Speaker 1: movie is there's a husband and a wife and the

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Speaker 1: husband manipulates and is turning down this like actual gaslight,

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Speaker 1: dimming the lights and telling her that he's not and

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Speaker 1: she's like, oh, it's getting darker and he's like, no,

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Speaker 1: it's not. And he's convincing her that she's crazy. Right.

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Speaker 1: He wants to convince her that she can't trust her

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Speaker 1: reality so then he can commit her to a mental institution.

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Speaker 1: So that's where that comes from. That's where we get

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Speaker 1: the phrase gaslight. Now you will hear this as a

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Speaker 1: common technique of abusers, dictators, narcissists, like cult leaders, And

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Speaker 1: when I hear those things, I think that can sound

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Speaker 1: very extreme. And then I know me. I'm very defensive

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Speaker 1: towards myself, so I might say something like that would

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Speaker 1: never happen to me. I would never be an abusive relationship.

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Speaker 1: I would never let somebody do this. I would never

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Speaker 1: because those things seem so big and heavy. But again,

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Speaker 1: this is a form of emotional psychological manipulation, which can

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Speaker 1: be harder to identify and recognize and prove invalidate and

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Speaker 1: because of that, more debilitating at the same time, Right,

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Speaker 1: we minimize this kind of stuff. And I started watching

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Speaker 1: the Netflix show the new one um called Made, and

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Speaker 1: I mean trigger warning. It's it's about a a woman

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Speaker 1: who has a kid is in this domestic abuse situation,

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Speaker 1: and it's her story of getting free. I only watched

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Speaker 1: two episodes because I just was crying and I was like,

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Speaker 1: this is very sad and this is not what I

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Speaker 1: need right now. I don't know if I'll finish it,

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Speaker 1: but this that I do know. The first couple of episodes,

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Speaker 1: it had such a good and realistic view on how

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Speaker 1: victims of abuse minimize their abuse. Right, Like, he didn't

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Speaker 1: hit me, so I'm not abused. Like I don't want

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Speaker 1: to call myself a victim because that's taking away from

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Speaker 1: people who really are victims of of abuse, and if

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Speaker 1: it's not abuse, then what would this be? And it

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Speaker 1: becomes just like almost moral failing on ourselves of like

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Speaker 1: we're the bad people, which is part of the psychological abuse.

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Speaker 1: It's part of the cycle like makes us think that

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Speaker 1: we're the bad, wrong people when really we're not. We're

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Speaker 1: victims of abuse, and we can become survivors. If we

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Speaker 1: don't like that word, we don't have to sit in

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Speaker 1: it forever. You can become a survivor. But to survive abuse,

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Speaker 1: a lot of times we have to recognize that we're

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Speaker 1: in that cycle. So watch that show if you're interested

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Speaker 1: in what that looks like. But also trigger warning. It can't.

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Speaker 1: I mean I haven't been in a relationship like that,

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Speaker 1: but it was triggering to me and my feelings and

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Speaker 1: my feelings didn't need it that day. Maybe I'll finish later.

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Speaker 1: I also think that it's important to mention here while

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Speaker 1: we're on this part, that anyone is susceptible to gas lighting. Anybody.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't just happen to weak people, are those with

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Speaker 1: a fragile sense of self or those with insecure attachment styles.

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Speaker 1: It can happen to anybody. And yes, those things I

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Speaker 1: just mentioned could be risk factors and could create a

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Speaker 1: higher likelihood of this happening, But this can happen to anyone.

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Speaker 1: And also those things aren't bad or wrong things, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: there's probably a reason there's a fragile sense of self,

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Speaker 1: there's probably a reason that there's an insecure attachment style.

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Speaker 1: So that doesn't mean you're bad or wrong either, if

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Speaker 1: that does fit with you. But I also don't want

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Speaker 1: people to demonize themselves because again, this is what these

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Speaker 1: people want us to think, that that we're the ones

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Speaker 1: and the wrong. I don't want you to demonize yourself

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Speaker 1: for this happening. You don't ask for this. There's nothing

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Speaker 1: that you do that says, oh, do please manipulate me,

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Speaker 1: please psychologically abuse me. This is there's no your fault

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Speaker 1: in this. And I think when we start to say, oh,

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Speaker 1: it was because I had a weak sense of self

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Speaker 1: or it's because I am just not confident, it's like,

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Speaker 1: you can't blame yourself for being abused. That's not fair

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Speaker 1: and it's not helpful and it's not true. So shall

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Speaker 1: we talk about what it might look like? Um, so

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Speaker 1: you can spot it. And this is tricky because, like

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Speaker 1: I said, you often don't know what's happening at first,

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Speaker 1: especially if you don't know what gaslighting is. So that's

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Speaker 1: one of the reasons why we're doing this. And this

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Speaker 1: is an attempt to control someone else by twisting their

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Speaker 1: sense of reality. So when this is happening, what is

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Speaker 1: happening is somebody is twisting your sense of reality. You

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Speaker 1: start grounded, you start knowing what's true and what's not true.

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Speaker 1: You start knowing the sky is blue, and then somebody

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Speaker 1: slowly does things that allows them to twist your sense

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Speaker 1: of reality where you might think, oh, the sky is blue.

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Speaker 1: I know it's blue. It's blue, that's a fact. And

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Speaker 1: then later down the line you are still seeing the

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Speaker 1: sky being blue, but you're saying, I bet this guy

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Speaker 1: has red and I'm seeing blue because I don't see

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Speaker 1: real reality. I can't trust myself. I have to listen

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Speaker 1: to what this person in power is telling me. Very confusing.

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Speaker 1: So back to in the beginning of this conversation when

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Speaker 1: I said that there's a difference in the techniques and

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Speaker 1: that the gas lighting effect right, So we'll get to this.

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Speaker 1: But denial is a technique or tactic that's used in

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Speaker 1: this process. But denial in itself is not gas lighting.

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Speaker 1: So if somebody denies something that doesn't just automatically like

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Speaker 1: you're gas lighting me, maybe that could be part of it.

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Speaker 1: But I think sometimes people just deny things because of

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Speaker 1: other reasons and they're not gas lighting you. It might

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Speaker 1: be a self protection there can be a lot of

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Speaker 1: stuff in that. They might just be lying to get

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Speaker 1: out of trouble. Doesn't mean they're gas lighting. So I

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Speaker 1: just want to separate that denial in its own right

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Speaker 1: is not gas lighting. It might be something that somebody

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Speaker 1: uses to get to that point. So, like I said,

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Speaker 1: there's techniques that are used to do this, So let's

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Speaker 1: break them down. I got a UM list of we're

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Speaker 1: gonna go through two different things, but I got this

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Speaker 1: first list of techniques, the actual just like words. I

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Speaker 1: took them from the National Domestic Violence Hotline, so you

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Speaker 1: can visit that UM website, the hotline dot org UM.

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Speaker 1: So I took the five techniques from there. They really

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Speaker 1: fit and I think they're helpful, and and then I'm

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Speaker 1: going to talk about each one. But I didn't make

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Speaker 1: those up, and I just wanted to make that clear.

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Speaker 1: So let's talk about these five techniques. So one way

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Speaker 1: or one thing that somebody might do UM in order

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Speaker 1: to create this this narrative is withholding, so means that

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Speaker 1: they refuse to listen to information or pretend like they

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Speaker 1: don't understand the information, or just like separate themselves from

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Speaker 1: the ability to have the conversation. So you might hear

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Speaker 1: things like you're not making any sense or I don't

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Speaker 1: have time for this. When you bring something up that

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Speaker 1: you think is important, or when you try to talk

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Speaker 1: about a conflict or just anything in that relationship, UM,

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Speaker 1: they might say things like I'm not going to go

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Speaker 1: through this again, even if you never went through it

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Speaker 1: once or we already talked about this, and maybe you

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Speaker 1: did talk about it, maybe you didn't, or maybe you

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Speaker 1: talked about it and they shut you down. But very

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Speaker 1: much they will just like not allow that conversation to

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Speaker 1: come to fruition. That's one. Then we have countering. So

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Speaker 1: this is when somebody's kind of like questioning the person,

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Speaker 1: as in, if it's you that's being manipulated, they're questioning

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Speaker 1: your memory or your essential reality of the event. So

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Speaker 1: this one actually bothers me a lot, like I think

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Speaker 1: it might be one of the most frustrating for me

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Speaker 1: because they take something that actually can be used for

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Speaker 1: super helpful communication and turn it against you. Like when

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Speaker 1: we're having conversations and we're having conflict and somebody might

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Speaker 1: hear something that somebody didn't say, right. So if somebody says,

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Speaker 1: like I don't have time to go to this event

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Speaker 1: with you tomorrow, I might hear them say they don't

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Speaker 1: they don't want to go, but they never said that, right,

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Speaker 1: They said they didn't have time. And so when you

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Speaker 1: have a healthy communication, you can talk about that and

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Speaker 1: you can say like, I heard you say that you

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Speaker 1: didn't want to go. The person can reply back, oh,

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Speaker 1: I actually didn't say that. I totally get that that's

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Speaker 1: what you heard. Um, I actually I didn't have time

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Speaker 1: and I actually would want to go, but I don't

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Speaker 1: have time. And so you can have a healthy conversation

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Speaker 1: around like oh miscommunication. But in this experience, they'll say

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Speaker 1: things like that's what you heard in your head. It's

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Speaker 1: not what I said, even though it is what they said.

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Speaker 1: And that can be so confusing because sometimes we do

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Speaker 1: hear things wrong. Um, so you can you can say

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Speaker 1: to yourself, well, maybe I did hear that wrong and

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Speaker 1: so they'll say it like, oh, come on, I never

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Speaker 1: said at or like that's what you heard, but you

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Speaker 1: know I would never say something like that, or you're

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Speaker 1: just being overly sensitive things like that. Then the third

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Speaker 1: technique is blocking or diverting. So this is like kind

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Speaker 1: of changing the subject and you start to question your

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Speaker 1: thinking and not just like changing the subject to like

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Speaker 1: the fight we had to, like where are we going

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Speaker 1: to go to dinner? They'll say things to like downplay

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Speaker 1: your experience, like you're overreacting. So the subject moves from

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Speaker 1: this thing that happened, this conflict you had, to your

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Speaker 1: reaction to the conflict and you being an overreact or

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Speaker 1: or too sensitive or something like that. And so they'll

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Speaker 1: say things like why would you let something so stupid

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Speaker 1: come between us? This seems silly, Like you're being silly.

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Speaker 1: You always blew things out of proportion, You are always

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Speaker 1: picking fights, you always have to be right, you always

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Speaker 1: play the victim, and so then now you're arguing about

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Speaker 1: that rather than talking about what you actually were trying

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Speaker 1: to talk about. So confusing, okay, And then number four

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Speaker 1: is trivializing, and so this is just making the person

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Speaker 1: feelings seem like really unimportant like again, and some of

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Speaker 1: these fall into similar categories like I don't know why

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Speaker 1: you're making such a big deal of this. You're being insecure,

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Speaker 1: you're too sensitive, and that can just make somebody be like, oh,

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Speaker 1: maybe I am overreacting, Like well, maybe if I just

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Speaker 1: stop overreacting, then we won't have this conflict and then

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Speaker 1: everything will be better, Like I don't want to have conflict,

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Speaker 1: So if it's me and I'm just overreacting, then maybe

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Speaker 1: I'll stop overreacting and then we won't have conflict. So

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Speaker 1: then you're looking to the person or the person in

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Speaker 1: power to kind of be your meter of like does

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Speaker 1: this experience warrant this kind of reaction? I don't know,

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Speaker 1: because I overreact, and so things that I think are

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Speaker 1: a big deal aren't a big deal, and I just

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Speaker 1: need to get over them because it's me. It's all

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Speaker 1: about me. It's me. It's me, it's me. I'm the problem.

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Speaker 1: And then the last one is forgetting or like just

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Speaker 1: straight up denial, which oh my gosh, it could be

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Speaker 1: so frustrating. And this is when the person just straights

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Speaker 1: up straight up denies something or they forget they act

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Speaker 1: like they forget what happened, or they just like deny

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Speaker 1: that they ever agreed to something or that they ever

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Speaker 1: said something. They just straight up our lying, which is like, again,

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Speaker 1: these people just are lying, which you cannot argue with

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Speaker 1: somebody who's lying. And they'll say things like I never

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Speaker 1: said that, I never did that, or they'll say you

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Speaker 1: never said that, or you never told me that, or

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Speaker 1: you never did that, and all of this. Actually I know,

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Speaker 1: I said in the beginning of this episode that I

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Speaker 1: had been in experience like this years ago, and this

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Speaker 1: was with a romantic partner, and I was like in it,

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Speaker 1: so like I had no idea what was going on.

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Speaker 1: And again I thought I was crazy. I thought it

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Speaker 1: was very selfish. I thought I was a bad person.

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Speaker 1: And what would happen a lot of times when we

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Speaker 1: would argue is I would go silent because I didn't

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Speaker 1: know how to respond, because if I agreed, it felt

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Speaker 1: like I was abandoning part of myself, and if I argued,

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Speaker 1: then it wouldn't be helpful. And so many times I

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Speaker 1: would hear myself say things like I don't understand how

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Speaker 1: we got here, how are we talking about this? What

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Speaker 1: are we even talking about? And then they would say

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Speaker 1: things to make me feel like stupid for being confused,

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Speaker 1: and so then I would just go silent. And then

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Speaker 1: when I went silent, then I became the bad person

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Speaker 1: because then I'm giving this silent treatment and all of this,

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Speaker 1: and then I'm playing the victim. And it's like, well,

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Speaker 1: I do feel like a victim right now, but then

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Speaker 1: I can't be the victim, and so horrible cycle. Good

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Speaker 1: news as I got out of it. But this actually,

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Speaker 1: as I'm telling this story, is reminding me of of

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Speaker 1: an experience I had recently with somebody. And I share

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Speaker 1: this because I mean it when I say this can

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Speaker 1: happen to anybody, like you can be in a relationship,

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Speaker 1: any kind of relationship. Again, it's not just romantic. Anybody

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Speaker 1: can get into a relationship with a person that uses

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Speaker 1: this type of manipulation. It's important to understand how to

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Speaker 1: spot it and how to get out, because if you

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Speaker 1: don't spot it, you'll find yourself in a cycle, and

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Speaker 1: then you'll start to feel either really frustrated or crazy

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Speaker 1: or does you'll be spinning your wheels. And if I

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Speaker 1: hadn't had this experience in my past and I knew

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Speaker 1: what it felt like, and I had this information I

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Speaker 1: probably would have questioned myself in this most recent experience,

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Speaker 1: and instead I just became very, very, very frustrated because

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Speaker 1: what I wanted is to have a conversation that made

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Speaker 1: sense with this person, and this person wouldn't allow that.

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Speaker 1: And I wanted so badly to see the good in

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Speaker 1: this person, and I wanted so badly to believe that

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Speaker 1: we could create a healthy relationship, a healthy friendship, a

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Speaker 1: healthy partnership. I wanted to believe that that could happen,

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Speaker 1: because in the beginning of our relationship, everything was very good, kind,

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Speaker 1: open um, we valued each other very much. I thought,

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Speaker 1: not that that's not true, but this was just very frustrating,

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Speaker 1: and I just became very frustrating cause I was like, no,

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Speaker 1: I just didn't want to believe that this is what

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Speaker 1: was happening. And I think that's something that can get

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Speaker 1: us stuck to It's like, we don't want to believe

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00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:50,760
Speaker 1: that these people are doing that. We want to see

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Speaker 1: the good. We want to see how this relationship can

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Speaker 1: be something helpful or strong or any of that. And

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Speaker 1: it's hard to just walk away from when there is

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Speaker 1: something that's built underneath of it. And so very very

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Speaker 1: long story short. I wish I could tell honestly, I

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00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:08,880
Speaker 1: wish I could tell you the whole story, but it's

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Speaker 1: not appropriate for the podcast and we don't have time.

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Speaker 1: It would be a whole series. But when my friends

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Speaker 1: asked me when we had our like we're no longer friends,

400
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Speaker 1: and when I finally decided to walk away permanently from

401
00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:25,679
Speaker 1: this relationship and friendship, my friends asked me to tell

402
00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:28,880
Speaker 1: the story and to tell this experience in this conversation,

403
00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:31,840
Speaker 1: to tell them about it, and I just said to them,

404
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Speaker 1: I gave them the bits and pieces that I could,

405
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Speaker 1: But then I said, I like, I actually can't tell

406
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Speaker 1: you about this conversation because it's so confusing and it

407
00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:43,160
Speaker 1: doesn't make sense, and my brain doesn't have the ability

408
00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:46,640
Speaker 1: to recall it because the things that were said just

409
00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:51,480
Speaker 1: don't make sense, like chronologically, like I would say something

410
00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:53,879
Speaker 1: and then this person would say something that did not

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Speaker 1: have anything to do with what I just said, or

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Speaker 1: would like counter what I just said in a very

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Speaker 1: strange way. And so a lot of times when you

414
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Speaker 1: have conversations, the conversation flows right and so it's easy

415
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Speaker 1: to recall. This conversation was all over the place, which

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Speaker 1: he was very good at using his tactics that like,

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Speaker 1: I couldn't even tell the story, and I think that's

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Speaker 1: part of what happens, right, So when our friends are like,

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Speaker 1: what's happened, we can't even tell them, and so then

420
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Speaker 1: we feel like there's something wrong with us. I am

421
00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:27,280
Speaker 1: questioning my reality. I am questioning my memory because I

422
00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:29,000
Speaker 1: can't even tell you what happens, so you can't even

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Speaker 1: back me up. But really, to me, I think that

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Speaker 1: was a part of my brain saying, hey, Kat, this

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Speaker 1: doesn't make sense. We don't know where to put this,

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Speaker 1: so we're not going to store it. He would say

427
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Speaker 1: things that like five minutes ago we agreed on. Literally,

428
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Speaker 1: he told me I was playing the victim as I

429
00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:47,080
Speaker 1: was taking responsibility for something that in all honesty, I

430
00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:49,360
Speaker 1: didn't want to take responsibility for, but I just kind

431
00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:51,639
Speaker 1: of want to like move on and it wasn't that

432
00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:53,399
Speaker 1: big of a deal to me. But as I was

433
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:55,359
Speaker 1: doing that, it's like, you always play the victim, and

434
00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:58,239
Speaker 1: I'm like, name two times where I did that. So

435
00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:01,280
Speaker 1: they use these like all or nothing, very extreme words, right,

436
00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:03,159
Speaker 1: So there's a sign right there. And he told me

437
00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:06,080
Speaker 1: to let him speak, and that I never let anyone

438
00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:09,120
Speaker 1: else talk, so again, very extreme. I never but then

439
00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:11,560
Speaker 1: when I spoke, he would interrupt me over and over

440
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:13,800
Speaker 1: and over again, where I literally could not even get

441
00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:16,800
Speaker 1: a sentence in. So again that my old behaviors came

442
00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:18,280
Speaker 1: in where I'm like, I'm just going to be quiet

443
00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:21,200
Speaker 1: and listen, and he made these accusations towards me that

444
00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:23,560
Speaker 1: I very much knew or not true. Um. He said

445
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:26,080
Speaker 1: things like I'm the most judgmental person he's ever met.

446
00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:29,640
Speaker 1: And that's a gross overstatement, right, the most judgmental person

447
00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:32,919
Speaker 1: he's ever met. Like, sure, I'm not perfect, so at

448
00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:35,399
Speaker 1: times I might be judgmental, but I know I'm not

449
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:38,000
Speaker 1: the most judgmental person that somebody's ever met. And the

450
00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:39,960
Speaker 1: thing is, you can't argue with these people because the

451
00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:42,360
Speaker 1: more you try to prove your point, the more heavier

452
00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:45,680
Speaker 1: their accusations get. Right, and if you try to disagree,

453
00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:47,560
Speaker 1: they'll make you feel stupid or they'll try to make

454
00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:50,920
Speaker 1: you feel crazy. And there's no compromise with these kinds

455
00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:53,480
Speaker 1: of people either. They're not trying to compromise, they're trying

456
00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:57,359
Speaker 1: to manipulate you. And to tell tale sign you're in

457
00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:01,760
Speaker 1: this dance is when you feel crazy which is confusing

458
00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:03,560
Speaker 1: because they want to make you feel crazy, because then

459
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:05,720
Speaker 1: I feel crazy, then they have power over you. But

460
00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:08,040
Speaker 1: when you start to feel crazy and you haven't always

461
00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:11,080
Speaker 1: felt like you're crazy, that's your sign of like my

462
00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:14,760
Speaker 1: head spinning, I cannot connect these dots. I feel crazy.

463
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:18,159
Speaker 1: Maybe I'm being manipulated. So the second you start to

464
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:21,200
Speaker 1: feel crazy, that is your second red flag after the

465
00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:31,119
Speaker 1: love bombing one. So a question you'll hear a lot,

466
00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:34,879
Speaker 1: and something you might wonder yourself, why don't people like

467
00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:37,479
Speaker 1: stand up for themselves and why or why don't they

468
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:40,440
Speaker 1: leave and all that? And because most people don't want

469
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:43,880
Speaker 1: to leave and they don't want to threaten the relationship. Right,

470
00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:46,760
Speaker 1: So even in this last example that I'm giving you,

471
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:49,359
Speaker 1: I didn't want to leave. I I did want to

472
00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:51,480
Speaker 1: find a way to to make this work, and so

473
00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:53,760
Speaker 1: part of me wanted to deny what was happening until

474
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:56,399
Speaker 1: I just couldn't. And when you actually do stand up

475
00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:59,520
Speaker 1: to this kind of thing, either their manipulation gets worse

476
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:03,000
Speaker 1: or the relationship gets threatened. And if I don't want

477
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,159
Speaker 1: to leave, that means I don't want the relationship to end,

478
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:07,200
Speaker 1: which means I also don't want it to be threatened,

479
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:10,800
Speaker 1: So I'm just not going to do that. Therefore, you

480
00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:14,240
Speaker 1: don't press on certain issues. And I talked about this

481
00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:16,080
Speaker 1: all the time. I'm guilty of wanting to believe the

482
00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:20,840
Speaker 1: goodness of everyone. And if you have a love bombing experience, right,

483
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:23,880
Speaker 1: you want to believe in the goodness that this partner

484
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:27,719
Speaker 1: or boss or human has because you've gone through that

485
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:31,040
Speaker 1: phase where you saw it and you also saw how

486
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:34,160
Speaker 1: good and you heard how good and special the relationship

487
00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:36,720
Speaker 1: and quotes was or is. So we go back to

488
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:39,520
Speaker 1: this like rosy retrospect, like but it was so good

489
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:41,480
Speaker 1: and we were so good and he was so kind

490
00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:44,600
Speaker 1: and he was so understanding back then. Okay, but where

491
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:47,399
Speaker 1: are we now? And the more you push right on this,

492
00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:49,679
Speaker 1: the heavier the person who's gas letting may go in

493
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:52,760
Speaker 1: and they can be ruthless, right, So there's no rationalizing

494
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:56,159
Speaker 1: with them. So if we can get into our heads

495
00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:59,600
Speaker 1: right that the agenda they're pushing of the reality that

496
00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:02,480
Speaker 1: they're trying to make you believe or understand or adhere

497
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:05,399
Speaker 1: to is not true. Right. But if you try to

498
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:08,080
Speaker 1: stand up to this, they have this fake agenda, this

499
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:10,800
Speaker 1: fake reality they're they're pushing. If you try to put

500
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:14,600
Speaker 1: push against this. What will happen is they'll escalate. But

501
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 1: as they escalate, their manipulation will create you as the problem. Now, right,

502
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:23,040
Speaker 1: So you're being dramatic, you're being crazy. Um, you you you,

503
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:24,879
Speaker 1: you're making a big deal about this. Why don't you

504
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:26,560
Speaker 1: just believe me? Why don't you just understand? Why do

505
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:28,040
Speaker 1: you have to be so difficult? Why do you have

506
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:31,600
Speaker 1: to question everything? And then it's like, whoa, Now I'm

507
00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 1: deeper in this. Now what what did I do? How

508
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 1: did I create such a big deal out of this? Wow?

509
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:43,240
Speaker 1: I'm just getting worked up talking about this. Okay. Also,

510
00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:44,879
Speaker 1: I don't know if this fits right here, but I

511
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:46,280
Speaker 1: have to say because I don't know if I don't

512
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:49,120
Speaker 1: remember if I said it. But I often think that

513
00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 1: people just think gaslighting is when somebody denies something. So

514
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:54,760
Speaker 1: what we already talked about how that's just a tactic.

515
00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:57,880
Speaker 1: But a lot of times we think gas lights when

516
00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:00,720
Speaker 1: somebody's denying truth, and that's just it. But it also

517
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:04,879
Speaker 1: can be when they deny something that you did, or

518
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:07,880
Speaker 1: they deny your memory. Um, and it's not just their

519
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:10,440
Speaker 1: denying their behavior. There they might say things like you

520
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:13,800
Speaker 1: never said that when you already did, or denying just

521
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:15,600
Speaker 1: a memory of something of you, and it's not just

522
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 1: um them. So I think that's important too, UM, because

523
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:20,760
Speaker 1: that can be really confusing when they're like you never

524
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:23,440
Speaker 1: said sorry or you never told me that you wanted

525
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:26,080
Speaker 1: me to be home at this time, and it's like, yes,

526
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:28,360
Speaker 1: I did, I did say that. I swear I said that.

527
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 1: And we'll move into how we can kind of combat

528
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:32,960
Speaker 1: that later, but I want to just make that point too.

529
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:36,439
Speaker 1: And again, this happens over time. This isn't just like

530
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:39,440
Speaker 1: a snap my fingers has happened. This happens over time.

531
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 1: And there is a great article that I want to share. Um.

532
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:46,720
Speaker 1: This is not my information. I'm taking this from somebody else,

533
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 1: but there's a great article I want to share that

534
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:50,920
Speaker 1: helps makes sense of why this can be so hard

535
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 1: to snap out of because it talks about the progression.

536
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:57,560
Speaker 1: There's a woman named Stephanie Sarkis, and she wrote a

537
00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:02,200
Speaker 1: book called Gaslighting, Recognize mennipulative and emotionally abuse of People,

538
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 1: and Break Free. And she had an article on psychology

539
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:08,520
Speaker 1: today that went viral, UM, and I think it went

540
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:11,240
Speaker 1: viral because so many people are finally waking up to

541
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 1: the stuff and talking about this stuff and it's interesting.

542
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:17,760
Speaker 1: And in this article she summarizes eleven ways how gaslighters

543
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 1: typically use the following techniques, which she details in her

544
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:24,560
Speaker 1: book that I just mentioned, which I will link her book.

545
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:26,879
Speaker 1: I haven't read this book, but I love the article.

546
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:30,439
Speaker 1: So in this article, again she summarizes these eleven ways

547
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:34,200
Speaker 1: how gaslighters typically use the techniques I'm going to mention,

548
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:37,120
Speaker 1: and how this progression happened. So how you get from like, oh,

549
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:40,399
Speaker 1: I'm a normal person that knows my reality to what

550
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:44,080
Speaker 1: in the world I'm questioning everything? So here we're gonna

551
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:47,600
Speaker 1: go through eleven Number one. I'll also link this article

552
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:49,239
Speaker 1: as well, so if you want to just go back

553
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:50,880
Speaker 1: and read it, because I'm just gonna read what she says.

554
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:53,960
Speaker 1: So Number one, they tell blatant lies. You know it's

555
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:56,520
Speaker 1: an outright lie. Yet they are telling you this lie

556
00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 1: with a straight face. Why are they so blatant Because

557
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 1: they're setting up a precedent. Once they tell you a

558
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:05,639
Speaker 1: huge lie, you're not sure if anything they say is true.

559
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 1: Keeping you unsteady and off kilter is the goal. Here.

560
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:13,080
Speaker 1: Number two, they deny they ever said something, even though

561
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 1: you have proof. You know they said they would do something.

562
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:18,800
Speaker 1: You know you heard it, but they out and out

563
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:22,200
Speaker 1: deny it. It makes you start to question your reality.

564
00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:24,920
Speaker 1: Maybe they never said that thing. And the more they

565
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:27,359
Speaker 1: do this, the more you question your reality and you

566
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:31,199
Speaker 1: start accepting their's. It's like Chinese water torture. Right. The

567
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:33,679
Speaker 1: longer this is me talking, not the the article, but

568
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 1: it's like the longer you do something, the more starts

569
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 1: to set in. And just like our belief systems about

570
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:41,680
Speaker 1: like our core beliefs, the longer we believe we're not

571
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 1: good enough, the longer we tell that story, the more

572
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:46,160
Speaker 1: we live in that screen, the more that becomes who

573
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:48,280
Speaker 1: who we are and what we think and what our

574
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:51,360
Speaker 1: reality is. Number three, they use what is near and

575
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:55,080
Speaker 1: dear to you as ammunition. They know how important your

576
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 1: kids are to you, They know how important your identity

577
00:28:57,400 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 1: is to you, so those may become the first things

578
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 1: they attack. If you have kids, they tell you that

579
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:04,600
Speaker 1: you should not have had those children. They will tell

580
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:06,400
Speaker 1: you that you'd be a worthy person if only you

581
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 1: didn't have a long list of negative traits. They attack

582
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 1: the foundation of your being. So this is cat agan.

583
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 1: They go in on you. Number four, They wear you

584
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 1: down over time. This is one of the insidious things

585
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:21,400
Speaker 1: about gas sighting. It's done gradually over time. A lie here,

586
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:24,240
Speaker 1: a lie there, a snide comment every so often, and

587
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 1: then it starts ramping up. Even the brightest, most self

588
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 1: aware people can be sucked into gas fighting. It is

589
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:33,680
Speaker 1: that effective. It's the frog and the frying pan analogy.

590
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 1: The heat is turned up slowly so the frog never

591
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 1: realizes what is happening to it, and then the frog dies.

592
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:41,719
Speaker 1: This number five. Their actions do not match their words

593
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:44,640
Speaker 1: when dealing with the person or entity that gaslights. Look

594
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:47,000
Speaker 1: at what they are doing rather than what they're saying.

595
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 1: What they are saying means nothing. It is just talk.

596
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:51,960
Speaker 1: What they're doing is the issue. I have to step

597
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:54,120
Speaker 1: in here as cat again because this is one of

598
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:58,120
Speaker 1: the things that's so tough, because you'll have these conversations

599
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:01,720
Speaker 1: and they'll say like I'm sorry, be better, or they'll

600
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 1: have these moments of like goodness and trueness and care. However,

601
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:08,880
Speaker 1: then their actions don't line up with that. But we

602
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 1: go back to well, they said this, they said this,

603
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 1: they said this right, But to trust and believe and

604
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:17,480
Speaker 1: and and sit with somebody's trueness, their their speech and

605
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 1: their actions have to act together. We can't just pick one. Okay.

606
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 1: So number six they throw in positive reinforcement to confuse you.

607
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,440
Speaker 1: This person or entity that is cutting you down, telling

608
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 1: you that you don't have value, is now praising you

609
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:32,400
Speaker 1: for something you did. You think, Well, maybe they aren't

610
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 1: so bad. Yes they are. This is a calculated attempt

611
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 1: to keep you off kilter and again to question your reality. Also,

612
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:42,600
Speaker 1: look at what you were praised for. It's probably something

613
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 1: that served the gas lighter. Again, so I love the

614
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:48,600
Speaker 1: part where she's saying this is a calculated attempt to

615
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 1: keep you off kilter and question in reality is because

616
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:54,320
Speaker 1: it's nothing is all the time, right, So you have

617
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 1: that evidence that's like they're not all bad? Yes, And

618
00:30:57,040 --> 00:31:00,480
Speaker 1: this is where we ask ourselves that percentage question. How

619
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:03,120
Speaker 1: much of the percentage of this relationship do I feel crazy?

620
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:05,240
Speaker 1: And how much do I feel like they are kind? Okay?

621
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:09,320
Speaker 1: Number seven They know confusion weakens people. Gas Lighters know

622
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 1: that people have a sense of stability and normalcy. Their

623
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:14,960
Speaker 1: goal is to uproot this and make you constantly question

624
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:18,920
Speaker 1: everything and humans natural tendency is to look to the

625
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 1: person or entity that will help you feel more stable

626
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:26,400
Speaker 1: and that happens to be the gas lighter. Really scary.

627
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 1: Number eight. They project they are a drug user or

628
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:33,880
Speaker 1: a cheater, yet they're constantly accusing you of that. This

629
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 1: has done so often that you start to defend yourself

630
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:39,400
Speaker 1: and then you're distracted from their behavior. Oh my gosh.

631
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:41,600
Speaker 1: When you start defending yourself from things that you've this

632
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 1: is cadian. When you start defending yourself from things that like,

633
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 1: actually are so off, that is such a telltale sign, right, Like,

634
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:51,880
Speaker 1: I'm defending myself, But have you ever had to defend

635
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 1: yourself from this before? In my experience, I was told

636
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:57,120
Speaker 1: that I was selfish so often, and I really believe

637
00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:00,760
Speaker 1: that to the point where I apologize to my friends often,

638
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:03,480
Speaker 1: like I'm so sorry for being so selfish and so

639
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 1: sorry for this and that. And the reality is we

640
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:08,360
Speaker 1: all have a bit of selfishness and this if we're healthy,

641
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 1: and that's okay. But my friends were like, what are

642
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:13,880
Speaker 1: you talking about? And so I was like, well, why

643
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 1: has nobody else told me this? And I thought my

644
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:18,240
Speaker 1: friends were lyned, but really it was that I was

645
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:21,760
Speaker 1: defending something that actually was not part of me. Number nine.

646
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 1: They tried to align people against you gas lighters are

647
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 1: masters at manipulating and finding the people they know will

648
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:31,200
Speaker 1: stand by them no matter what, and they use these

649
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 1: people against you. They will make comments such as this

650
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,760
Speaker 1: person knows that you're not right, or this person's knows

651
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 1: you're useless. To keep in mind, it does not mean

652
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:43,000
Speaker 1: that these people actually said these things. A gas lighter

653
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 1: is a constant liar. When the gas lighter uses this tactic,

654
00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:48,480
Speaker 1: it makes you feel like you don't know who to

655
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:50,920
Speaker 1: trust or who to turn to, and that lead you

656
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 1: right back to them, and that's exactly what they want.

657
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 1: Isolation gives them more control. I'll get to this, which

658
00:32:57,320 --> 00:32:59,240
Speaker 1: is why we need to reality check. And when we

659
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:01,760
Speaker 1: feel like we're in these situations, a lot of times

660
00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 1: we don't want to tell anybody about it because it's like, oh,

661
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:05,840
Speaker 1: I don't want to tell me by dirty laundry or

662
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 1: this is just between us. But that's what they want.

663
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 1: They wanted to be between you, so then you don't

664
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 1: have anybody giving you a reality check. Number ten, they

665
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:17,239
Speaker 1: tell you or others that you're crazy. This is one

666
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 1: of the most effective tools of the gas lighter because

667
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:23,240
Speaker 1: it's dismissive. The gas lighter knows if they question your sanity.

668
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:25,960
Speaker 1: People will not believe you when you tell them the

669
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 1: gas lighter is abusive or out of control. It's a

670
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:32,680
Speaker 1: master technique. So what's the point If nobody's gonna believe me,

671
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:35,400
Speaker 1: what's the point? And then eleven they tell you everyone

672
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 1: else is a liar. By telling you that everyone else,

673
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:40,520
Speaker 1: your family, the media, X, Y Z is a liar,

674
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:43,560
Speaker 1: it again makes you question your reality. You've never known

675
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:46,720
Speaker 1: someone with the audacity to do this, so they must

676
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:50,440
Speaker 1: be telling the truth right now. It's a manipulation technique.

677
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 1: It makes people turn to the gas lighter for the

678
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 1: correct information, which actually isn't correct at all. Oh man.

679
00:33:57,720 --> 00:33:59,520
Speaker 1: And I think one of the things that's highlighting these

680
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:02,360
Speaker 1: steps is the idea this is kept talking about the article,

681
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 1: is the idea that, like, they want you in this isolation,

682
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:08,160
Speaker 1: so you don't have any other information and you're going

683
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:10,640
Speaker 1: to them to get it, and so what they say

684
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:15,160
Speaker 1: and what they do is gold. My goodness, So I

685
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:17,359
Speaker 1: have so many feelings right now, And if you have

686
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:19,319
Speaker 1: so many feelings right now, I'm in it with you.

687
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:21,520
Speaker 1: This is so frustrating, and this is the kind of

688
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:23,640
Speaker 1: thing that I talk about this and I'm like, why

689
00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 1: are these kind of people in the world, and why

690
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:28,520
Speaker 1: is this something that we have to deal with and

691
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:30,399
Speaker 1: and move through? And I don't have an answer for that.

692
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:33,239
Speaker 1: I don't have an answer for why we have to

693
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 1: move through a lot of the tough things in life.

694
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:38,439
Speaker 1: But I do have some helpful tips to help you

695
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:40,080
Speaker 1: kind of get out of it not have to stay

696
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 1: in this. So let's kind of just talk about those

697
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:46,160
Speaker 1: as we summarize and close out this conversation. And also

698
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:49,360
Speaker 1: I will link that article in the show notes for

699
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 1: you guys, and I'll link the episode on love addiction,

700
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:55,399
Speaker 1: and I'll link the episode that I did on narcissism

701
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:57,799
Speaker 1: as well, So if you want some more information on

702
00:34:57,840 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 1: some of this stuff, you can go get that there

703
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:01,520
Speaker 1: and link her book. Even though I want you guys

704
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:03,080
Speaker 1: to know I haven't read it, so I can't vouch

705
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 1: for it. But here's some suggestions of what to do

706
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 1: um when you find yourself in a relationship like this,

707
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:17,319
Speaker 1: whether it be parent, friend, spouse, romantic partner, boss, anything. No.

708
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:19,840
Speaker 1: Right now that you are not weak, bad, or wrong

709
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:22,280
Speaker 1: if you have experienced this, and this is so important,

710
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:25,480
Speaker 1: abuse of any kind, does this thing that makes us

711
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:28,120
Speaker 1: feel bad about ourselves for being found inside of it,

712
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:30,960
Speaker 1: but nobody asks to be abused. It is not a

713
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:33,360
Speaker 1: moral failing on you. And I need you guys to

714
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:35,399
Speaker 1: know that you're not weak, bad, or wrong if you're

715
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:38,279
Speaker 1: in this situation. It's not something to be ashamed about.

716
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 1: And the more we believe that, the more we'll get

717
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:42,719
Speaker 1: stuck inside of it too. I want you guys to

718
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:46,319
Speaker 1: pay attention to red flags. And this is something that's

719
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:49,120
Speaker 1: so frustrating at the same time. I get it, but

720
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:52,920
Speaker 1: there's so much like laughter and joking, nous and just

721
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:57,719
Speaker 1: like what's the word like self deprecation around ignoring red

722
00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:00,360
Speaker 1: flags these days. And I get some of it and

723
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:03,040
Speaker 1: some of it the humor. We need to not make

724
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:05,760
Speaker 1: everything so heavy, but we've got to start paying attention

725
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:08,400
Speaker 1: to red flags, especially when they're like this, because it

726
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:11,200
Speaker 1: can really get you into some trouble. And again that's

727
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:13,720
Speaker 1: not your fault, but when we are ignoring red flags,

728
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:16,279
Speaker 1: we do have to take some responsibility for that. That part.

729
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:19,800
Speaker 1: Perk up the first time you experience one of these techniques.

730
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:22,560
Speaker 1: Perk up the first time you are experiencing love bombing,

731
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 1: just because you're having this like intense reaction in a relationship.

732
00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:28,120
Speaker 1: Early It doesn't mean it's going to end up in this,

733
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:30,200
Speaker 1: but I at least want you to pay attention to it,

734
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:33,160
Speaker 1: so you know, if one of these other things follows,

735
00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:34,839
Speaker 1: Hey I need to talk about this. Hey I need

736
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:37,800
Speaker 1: to be mindful of this right down. When you experience

737
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:40,240
Speaker 1: these things the first time, it's helpful to have written

738
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:42,480
Speaker 1: accounts of these so when your memory as questions later,

739
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:45,240
Speaker 1: when this gets heavier, you can go back and say, nope,

740
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:47,560
Speaker 1: I'm not crazy. I didn't make this up. I wrote

741
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 1: this down. And also sometimes when we have that written down,

742
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 1: we can go, WHOA, this wasn't just a little small thing.

743
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:57,040
Speaker 1: Look at all these accounts and one of um, I

744
00:36:57,080 --> 00:36:58,800
Speaker 1: actually found this later and this wasn't really what I

745
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:00,920
Speaker 1: was doing. But I write a lot of letters to myself,

746
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:03,560
Speaker 1: and I'll write text messages to myself instead of sending

747
00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:07,319
Speaker 1: them to people. And after this long ago relationship ended,

748
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 1: I found a letter that I had written and I

749
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:11,759
Speaker 1: was like in this spot where I was like so

750
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:14,240
Speaker 1: still kind of sad about the relationship, and I found

751
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:15,839
Speaker 1: this letter and as I read it, I was like,

752
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:20,719
Speaker 1: oh my goodness, I'm so glad I read wrote this

753
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:23,480
Speaker 1: because now I'm reading this and realizing that this rosy

754
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:26,360
Speaker 1: retrospect that I'm having was so off. So it's helpful

755
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:28,560
Speaker 1: to write that stuff down. Number three, do not try

756
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:31,600
Speaker 1: and argue. Be willing to leave these conversations with these

757
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:35,760
Speaker 1: people without making your point or without feeling validated or understood.

758
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:38,399
Speaker 1: There they very likely will not validate you. It can

759
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:42,120
Speaker 1: be super disorienting to be in conversations with people who

760
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:45,879
Speaker 1: are um using techniques to gaslight you, because what they're

761
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:48,799
Speaker 1: doing is trying to knock you off your stability, knock

762
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:51,959
Speaker 1: you off of your reality, and they'll change the path

763
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:55,040
Speaker 1: of the discussion. Like I said, so if you're trying

764
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:57,840
Speaker 1: to be understood and have a conversation about A, you

765
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:00,279
Speaker 1: might be having a conversation about B later and then

766
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:02,120
Speaker 1: all of a sudden you're blowing things out of proportion

767
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:04,240
Speaker 1: or whatever one of the things that I said earlier,

768
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:06,760
Speaker 1: when you're just trying to share your feelings and be validated.

769
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:09,719
Speaker 1: So do not try to argue. Do not try to

770
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:12,600
Speaker 1: beat a dead horse to get your feelings validated. Just

771
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:15,279
Speaker 1: know that that might ever happen, and be willing to

772
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:19,960
Speaker 1: leave without that. For don't try to rationalize, don't try

773
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:22,400
Speaker 1: to outsmart this person. Do not try to manipulate the

774
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:25,239
Speaker 1: person who's manipulating you, because again they're usually lying. And

775
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:28,320
Speaker 1: if I'm going off of life, I can continue that

776
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:30,960
Speaker 1: narrative as far as I need to go encounter anything

777
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:33,239
Speaker 1: you say. And the more you try to outsmart the person,

778
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:35,600
Speaker 1: the more you will get confused, because then you're not

779
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:37,920
Speaker 1: actually sitting in your reality, right, You're trying to like

780
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:40,439
Speaker 1: be a step ahead, but they're not in reality either,

781
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:42,879
Speaker 1: so you're essentially letting go of your truth in order

782
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:46,480
Speaker 1: to jump into this mind game. So being disengaged, like

783
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:50,760
Speaker 1: disengaging from this stuff and being unbothered by them doing

784
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:54,560
Speaker 1: these things, that's your best course of action to again,

785
00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:57,000
Speaker 1: be willing to walk away. Do not try to outsmart

786
00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:01,480
Speaker 1: this person. Master manipulators, right, and most healthy people are

787
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:05,000
Speaker 1: not master manipulators. We don't have it in us because

788
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:07,880
Speaker 1: when you're sitting and rooted in truth, a manipulation cannot

789
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:10,240
Speaker 1: sit there as well. And then repeat this one needed.

790
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:13,640
Speaker 1: This is my my fifth little tip. My feelings are valid.

791
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:16,120
Speaker 1: No one else can tell me how to feel. Again,

792
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:19,279
Speaker 1: my feelings are valid. No one else can tell me

793
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:22,120
Speaker 1: how I feel. You can even add in there, my

794
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:26,520
Speaker 1: reality is valid because listen, We're all walking around with

795
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:29,840
Speaker 1: different realities, right, because we see things through different screens.

796
00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:33,560
Speaker 1: So just because your reality doesn't match up exactly as

797
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:37,160
Speaker 1: somebody else's doesn't mean it's even false to begin with. Right,

798
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:40,880
Speaker 1: So my feelings are valid, my reality is valid. No

799
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:43,279
Speaker 1: one else can tell me how to feel. And then

800
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:45,279
Speaker 1: the sixth thing I just want to drive this home

801
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 1: is like fine support, Find find support, reality check with

802
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:53,360
Speaker 1: people you trust. So instead of hiding, right, instead of

803
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:55,960
Speaker 1: hiding when somebody when you start to notice somebody's trying

804
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:58,680
Speaker 1: to keep you small, keep you in this one on

805
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:01,840
Speaker 1: one relationship where only going to reality check with one person,

806
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:04,560
Speaker 1: I can only trust one person. That one person makes

807
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:06,399
Speaker 1: me feel like I'm wrong all the time. Red red

808
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:08,839
Speaker 1: red red red red, red, red, red, very very bright

809
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:12,520
Speaker 1: red like neon flag. Always know that you should be

810
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:14,839
Speaker 1: able to reality check with more than one person. So

811
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 1: find support, go to those people, ask them questions, talk

812
00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:21,319
Speaker 1: to them. And when you feel crazy, right, So when

813
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:23,680
Speaker 1: I was like, I can't even tell the story because

814
00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:27,360
Speaker 1: it's so wild, know that, like, if you feel crazy,

815
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:31,000
Speaker 1: it doesn't mean you are crazy. I think that's so important.

816
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:33,520
Speaker 1: When you feel crazy, it doesn't mean you are crazy,

817
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:36,160
Speaker 1: that just might be where somebody wants you to sit.

818
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:40,120
Speaker 1: And when I feel crazy, sometimes it's because I'm being manipulated.

819
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:42,360
Speaker 1: I'm actually not crazy. It makes me think of and

820
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:43,759
Speaker 1: I think I'm gonna close it out with this of

821
00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:47,640
Speaker 1: the book Girl interrupted. It was also a movie um

822
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:50,520
Speaker 1: with Angelina Jolie and Britney Murphy. It's super good, super dark.

823
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:56,040
Speaker 1: I wouldn't recommend watching it alone at night. But in

824
00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:58,080
Speaker 1: the book. I read the book for a project in

825
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:02,080
Speaker 1: grad school, and I think was like in the last chapter,

826
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:04,960
Speaker 1: like the very end of it. Long story short, this

827
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:09,040
Speaker 1: girl has spent a significant amount of time in a

828
00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:12,160
Speaker 1: mental health institution. Back then. I think they were even

829
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:14,719
Speaker 1: called like a sane asylums things like that, which we

830
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:18,520
Speaker 1: don't call them those. But she talked about how after

831
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:21,440
Speaker 1: she left there she always had this essence of questioning

832
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 1: her reality. Because after somebody tells you enough times you're

833
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:28,359
Speaker 1: crazy or crazy or crazy or crazy, essentially you're going

834
00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:31,000
Speaker 1: to believe them, right. And so the longer we stay

835
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:33,239
Speaker 1: in these relationships where people are telling us this, the

836
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:35,000
Speaker 1: more we're going to start to believe them. And and

837
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:37,560
Speaker 1: she said, even after she got out, and there's a

838
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:39,719
Speaker 1: part of her that knows she's not crazy, she would

839
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:41,800
Speaker 1: question herself and she would be walking in the grocery

840
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:43,879
Speaker 1: store and and and wonder, am I seeing these black

841
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:46,960
Speaker 1: and white checkers on the tiles or is this my imagination?

842
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:49,920
Speaker 1: And that just speaks to the power of what we

843
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 1: allow ourselves to hear and what we allow ourselves to

844
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:55,440
Speaker 1: stay in. And so find people who you feel super

845
00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:58,759
Speaker 1: safe with and who make you feel stable, and who

846
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:02,120
Speaker 1: make you feel like confidence around yourself, with people who

847
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:05,680
Speaker 1: allow you to know that you're not crazy. Right when

848
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:08,280
Speaker 1: we're around people that make us feel like we are crazy,

849
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:12,440
Speaker 1: and that's never happened before Red Flak because that doesn't

850
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 1: just like pop out of nowhere. I mean, I guess

851
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:16,440
Speaker 1: it can. We can't have psychotic breaks, but you know

852
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:19,600
Speaker 1: what I mean, So long episode to do by myself,

853
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:22,160
Speaker 1: a lot of talking, and I could go on about this,

854
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:24,200
Speaker 1: and you know what, maybe one day we'll get Stephanie

855
00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:27,000
Speaker 1: Sarkas on the podcast and she can talk to us

856
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:29,520
Speaker 1: about this because she's an expert in this and I'm

857
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:32,560
Speaker 1: a mental health expert, but I don't specialize in gas lighting.

858
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:34,279
Speaker 1: It's something that I do know about, but it'd be

859
00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:36,560
Speaker 1: nice to have somebody who specializes in this on here

860
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:39,120
Speaker 1: talk to us, so maybe that will happen in the future.

861
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:42,919
Speaker 1: I don't know lots of planning to do for two,

862
00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:45,880
Speaker 1: but with that, I want to say, if there's stuff

863
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:48,160
Speaker 1: that you just love and you want to know more about,

864
00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:50,400
Speaker 1: and you have questions about our stuff that you've just

865
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:53,240
Speaker 1: loved hearing about and or things we haven't talked about,

866
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:55,920
Speaker 1: send me an email like, I'm so open to like

867
00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:58,200
Speaker 1: what you guys are interested in, because as I plan

868
00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:01,920
Speaker 1: for next year's content, I want to make sure that

869
00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:04,799
Speaker 1: you guys are continuing to get content that fuels you

870
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 1: and um, that's helpful, So feel free to send that

871
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:12,680
Speaker 1: to Catherine at You Need Therapy podcast dot calm. Again,

872
00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:14,960
Speaker 1: you can follow me at cat dot de fata and

873
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:19,520
Speaker 1: the podcast at You Need Therapy podcast on Instagram. I

874
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:24,160
Speaker 1: would love that. And yeah, again little reminder, it's my

875
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:26,719
Speaker 1: birthday week, so if you really want to give me

876
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:29,279
Speaker 1: a birthday gift, that would be awesome in the form

877
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:32,400
Speaker 1: of a rating on the bottom of this if you

878
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:35,000
Speaker 1: scroll down, just give us five stars. If I mean,

879
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:37,080
Speaker 1: I don't want to tell you to give us five stars.

880
00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:38,880
Speaker 1: If you really don't think this is a good podcast.

881
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:40,640
Speaker 1: But if you do think it's a good podcast, I

882
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:42,960
Speaker 1: want to know, like, that's really helpful for me. And

883
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:44,799
Speaker 1: I don't get to talk to you guys and see

884
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:47,040
Speaker 1: you guys and know what's going on all the time,

885
00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:49,120
Speaker 1: so that's really helpful when I see that you guys

886
00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:52,200
Speaker 1: like this, and it meant enough that you took thirty

887
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:54,520
Speaker 1: seconds out of your day and did that, So that

888
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:57,799
Speaker 1: would be awesome birthday gift. And I will be back

889
00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:00,239
Speaker 1: on Wednesday for couch Talks. Thank you for being here

890
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:02,560
Speaker 1: with me, and I hope you guys had the Thanksgiving

891
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:06,000
Speaker 1: you need to have and are walking into this holiday

892
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:08,520
Speaker 1: season with the feelings that you need to have. So

893
00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:14,680
Speaker 1: I love you guys and talk to you on Wednesday.