1 00:00:08,520 --> 00:00:21,560 Speaker 1: Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. Well, we've been waiting. 2 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:28,920 Speaker 1: We've been waiting to try to find out what actually 3 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:42,760 Speaker 1: happened to Eliza Fletcher. Now we've got those answers. I'm 4 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:51,920 Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Body Bags with Me. 5 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:57,040 Speaker 1: Is my friend Jackie Howard, executive producer for Crime Stories 6 00:00:57,040 --> 00:01:00,200 Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. Jackie, we've been waiting at way. We've 7 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 1: been waiting to finally get some detailed answers relative to 8 00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:12,360 Speaker 1: what happened to Eliza Fletcher, what brought about her death specifically, 9 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:15,480 Speaker 1: We've heard a lot out there. Now we finally have 10 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 1: some details, don't we We do. Eliza Fletcher, a thirty 11 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:23,039 Speaker 1: four year old teacher from Memphis, went missing during a 12 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 1: pre dawn run and she was killed. Her body was 13 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:29,199 Speaker 1: found four days later. What we know now is that 14 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:35,120 Speaker 1: she died a very violent death. We already had intimations 15 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:38,640 Speaker 1: of that from the fact that her body was found decomposed. 16 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:41,279 Speaker 1: Her clothing was in a separate location from her body, 17 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:44,960 Speaker 1: so we did know that she had a very violent death. 18 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 1: The information that's coming out with the release of the 19 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:52,960 Speaker 1: autopsy shows us just how violent that was. But before 20 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:55,680 Speaker 1: we get into the details. Joe, I went to look 21 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 1: at the autopsy and there was so much information. So 22 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 1: many times. Can you explain to me what it is 23 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 1: an autopsy shows us and how it shows I mean, 24 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 1: how do you read these things? Well, you have to 25 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 1: you have to think of it first off as a map. 26 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:15,359 Speaker 1: I think that allows us to determine the direction in 27 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 1: which we're going. You can go very broadly, or you 28 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:22,000 Speaker 1: can go put a fine point on it. And that's 29 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:25,799 Speaker 1: that's kind of the way an autopsy report works. When 30 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:28,720 Speaker 1: you're you're starting off on a journey and you tell 31 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:31,919 Speaker 1: it in very broad strokes from the opening, and it's 32 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 1: kind of it almost is set up like a play, 33 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:38,120 Speaker 1: if you will, with multiple acts, because every component of 34 00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:42,400 Speaker 1: the body that is detailed in this document plays a 35 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:46,240 Speaker 1: part in the totality of the story. And it's even 36 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:50,119 Speaker 1: got an introduction and then in most autopsies they will 37 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 1: have a conclusion and this one does. And look, it's 38 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 1: all over the internet now, I mean people can can 39 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:57,160 Speaker 1: kind of take a look at it. I've been reading 40 00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 1: autopsy reports for I don't know forty years is and 41 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 1: so I wanted to take this opportunity to take Eliza's 42 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:06,920 Speaker 1: autopsy report, kind of break it down, find out what 43 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:11,679 Speaker 1: happened to her specifically, and maybe it'll be an opportunity 44 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:14,440 Speaker 1: for our listeners to begin to understand it a little 45 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 1: bit more in context, because listen, you know, when the 46 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:24,359 Speaker 1: story of Eliza's death broke, to say that it was 47 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 1: chaotic is an understatement, I think. And the thing about 48 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:31,680 Speaker 1: having something in black and white before you. This report 49 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 1: that's been put out, it adds some level of I think, 50 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 1: stability and control. It's measured because it is a scientific 51 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 1: report moving forward and kind of what the police and 52 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 1: investigators have in the DA in particular, it's going to 53 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 1: have moving forward with this case to prosecute this case. 54 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 1: And there's certainly certainly a ton here that we can 55 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 1: kind of dig into. I've heard you describe before an 56 00:03:56,920 --> 00:04:01,480 Speaker 1: autopsy as a roadmap. Okay, now, let's be realistic. When 57 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 1: we had old time roadmaps and not using GPS on 58 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 1: our phones, most people couldn't read a roadmap, So how 59 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:11,720 Speaker 1: are we going to be able to read and understand 60 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 1: what's on an autopsy? Well, listen, listen, it is literally 61 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 1: common sense. And if you've got a dictionary, particularly a 62 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 1: medical dictionary, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to sit 63 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:25,840 Speaker 1: down and read an autopsy report. There's little subtleties in there, 64 00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 1: but if you take your time, I mean really take 65 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 1: your time, sit there, analyze it, break it down you 66 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 1: if you find it. And this is how I literally 67 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:36,839 Speaker 1: learned medical terminology. This way was through reading autopsy reports 68 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:42,359 Speaker 1: and having two or three dependable medical dictionaries at my disposal. 69 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:44,719 Speaker 1: Anytime I didn't understand a word, I would go look 70 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:46,040 Speaker 1: it up and I'd read it and I'd try to 71 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:48,520 Speaker 1: absorb it and understand the root of that word. You know, 72 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 1: is it a Greek root or is it a Latin root? 73 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:55,039 Speaker 1: And how is it applied? And the beauty of this 74 00:04:55,360 --> 00:05:01,320 Speaker 1: is that you've got this tragic case. But you know, 75 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:04,360 Speaker 1: to a certain degree, I guess you know, every autopsy 76 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 1: that is performed has some level of tragedy to it, 77 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:10,920 Speaker 1: particularly for those that are family members and loved ones. 78 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:13,599 Speaker 1: But you can learn from these things. You can extract 79 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 1: bits of information, and as you carefully read it, carefully, 80 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 1: you can This isn't one of these things you just 81 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 1: kind of closs over all. Right. You take your time 82 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:23,160 Speaker 1: and you read it, and you begin to break it down, 83 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 1: and you begin to understand it at least perhaps through 84 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 1: the pathologist eyes and the other scientists that worked on 85 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:34,240 Speaker 1: this case, and it brings everything together. They're trying to 86 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 1: bring you to a location, and it's not that they're 87 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 1: necessarily forming the narrative themselves. And this is key because 88 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 1: this is something we're always talking about in medical legal community. 89 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:48,280 Speaker 1: And you're gonna know what I'm going to say, and 90 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:51,280 Speaker 1: that that is we speak for those that can no 91 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 1: longer speak for themselves. Well, this this for the dead. 92 00:05:56,880 --> 00:06:01,680 Speaker 1: The autopsy report is the codex. It's it's the Rosetta 93 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 1: stone for them, for the dead. They're giving up their 94 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 1: secrets here per the examination, and if you read it carefully, 95 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 1: you'll begin to kind of understand what happened. And it 96 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:15,800 Speaker 1: breaks it down very logically. It gives you the initial 97 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:18,600 Speaker 1: diagnosis to begin with, right in the very front, the 98 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:21,000 Speaker 1: front end of this thing, and then it breaks it 99 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 1: down per each system, whether it's the cardiovascular system, the 100 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:28,719 Speaker 1: gastric digestive system, you know, skeletal system, and it breaks 101 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:30,520 Speaker 1: it down in each one of those components and then 102 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 1: it finally brings it home at the end. And that's 103 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:35,280 Speaker 1: the beauty of an autopsy report. It's not like you're 104 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 1: at a press conference and everybody's shouting questions and they 105 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:40,480 Speaker 1: try to get a response from the person up at 106 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:43,280 Speaker 1: the podium. It's not like that. The cool thing about 107 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 1: an autopsy report is you can quietly sit there and 108 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:48,760 Speaker 1: read it and get it in kind of a meditative state, 109 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:51,760 Speaker 1: if you will, to begin to make this come to life, 110 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:55,120 Speaker 1: so that you see this picture developing before you. And 111 00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:58,560 Speaker 1: that's happened for me at least time and time again. Okay, 112 00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:02,039 Speaker 1: So and autopicy when you're looking at it. At first, 113 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:06,240 Speaker 1: it's going to tell you the details of how the 114 00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 1: body was found, correct, Yeah, yeah. And then from that 115 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 1: does it go on and extrapolate on what the medical 116 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:17,560 Speaker 1: examiner sees during his autopsy. I mean it's laid out 117 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 1: in detail. Yeah it is. And again I say this, 118 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:23,920 Speaker 1: I've said it for years. You know, people have been 119 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 1: so influenced by television. They assume that there's a friends 120 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 1: of pathologist that goes out to the scene on cases 121 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 1: like this, on all of the cases, every homicide. Oh yeah, 122 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 1: we've got a friends of pathologist that comes out. No, 123 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:39,240 Speaker 1: you don't. There's not enough of them. There's just not. 124 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:44,480 Speaker 1: So you're relied upon what the investigators at the scene saw. 125 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:48,480 Speaker 1: And to that end, the pathologist needs to know what 126 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:51,200 Speaker 1: the investigators saw at the scene, and they need to 127 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 1: have somebody that can actually communicate those findings to them, 128 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 1: because the pathologist might very well be back at the 129 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 1: medical examiner's office doing two and three, maybe four other autopsies. 130 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 1: They're not going to have time to drop everything they're 131 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 1: doing on those cases and go out to a scene 132 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:11,560 Speaker 1: and do their own observation. So you have to have 133 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:14,040 Speaker 1: a staff that you trust. And that's where a medical 134 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:17,560 Speaker 1: legal death investigator comes in, someone that does for a 135 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 1: living what I did for so many years. You're the 136 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 1: eyes and the ears of pathologists and seeing you bring 137 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 1: that data into the medical Examiner's office or corner's office 138 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 1: for this purpose so that they can contextualize the death 139 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:34,960 Speaker 1: at the scene. And because there's certain things that you're 140 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:38,880 Speaker 1: looking for, for instance, externally, that were influenced by the 141 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:43,480 Speaker 1: environment in which the body is found. And in Eliza's case, 142 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:47,960 Speaker 1: she was actually found in this like thick kind of 143 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:53,240 Speaker 1: high grass area immediately adjacent to this old house in 144 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:56,840 Speaker 1: the back of it. You know, if you just stone 145 00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 1: cold get a body that shows up and you have 146 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:04,000 Speaker 1: no frame or reference for it. You're not going to understand, Well, 147 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 1: she was laying in thick vegetation. That might explain some 148 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 1: of the animal activity or lack thereof. She was obscured 149 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:13,400 Speaker 1: from view, you know, for instance, how how did she 150 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:16,760 Speaker 1: come to be in this state of decomposition. She's at 151 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 1: a house. Well, you don't understand, doc, she was at 152 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 1: a house, she was in the yard, but it was 153 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:24,280 Speaker 1: obscured from view. You know, you had no points of 154 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:26,680 Speaker 1: view from this. Oh okay, I understand now. She says 155 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:29,800 Speaker 1: she's in the back, she's in grass, she's obscured. That's 156 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:32,880 Speaker 1: why we have this level of decomposition, for instance. And 157 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 1: so it's those little areas that you have to have 158 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:38,280 Speaker 1: that data that comes in from the field, and that 159 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:43,840 Speaker 1: way the forensic mythologists begins to integrate that into their examination, okay, 160 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:47,360 Speaker 1: and begin to understand it. But for the purposes of 161 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:52,280 Speaker 1: the autopsy report, the way most of the time they're 162 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:57,679 Speaker 1: handled is that when the physician begins to do their examination, 163 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 1: they obviously do and external examination and they'll annotate everything. 164 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:05,840 Speaker 1: They'll go through clothing, they'll do weight, they'll do height, 165 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 1: they'll look for things externally, as far as injuries go, 166 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:13,800 Speaker 1: they'll look for, say, identifiers on an individual, say maybe 167 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 1: they'll be looking for tattoos, anything externally that is going 168 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 1: to bring to life the person that you have before 169 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 1: you on the table. And these elements are referred to 170 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 1: their components of what's referred to as individualization when it 171 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:32,200 Speaker 1: comes to identification, and that's a big part of this because, 172 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:34,680 Speaker 1: particularly when you have a body that has been down 173 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:38,160 Speaker 1: for a protracted period of time, you want to make sure, 174 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:43,920 Speaker 1: i mean dead, ensure that this individual is in fact 175 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:46,080 Speaker 1: who you believe them to be, and you have to 176 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:49,280 Speaker 1: do that through scientific verification, and of course that'll be 177 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:53,440 Speaker 1: annotated in the autopsy report as well. So what else 178 00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 1: is included in an autopsy, Joe we hear, Often this 179 00:10:57,120 --> 00:11:02,640 Speaker 1: is a preliminary autopsy pending toxicology. So what other things 180 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:07,800 Speaker 1: go into a final autopsy report. Let's address this issue 181 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 1: of it being a preliminary finding. If you have someone 182 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:13,560 Speaker 1: that has, say, for instance, died of a gunshot wound, 183 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:19,080 Speaker 1: a preliminary finding, the pathologists will actually say, okay, the 184 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:22,320 Speaker 1: cause of death is, you know, a gunshot wound to 185 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:26,120 Speaker 1: the head, all right, but for our purposes they're not 186 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:29,719 Speaker 1: we're not going to go into the great detail now 187 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:32,400 Speaker 1: as far as like the bullet trajectory, range of fire, 188 00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 1: all those sorts of things. And in some cases they'll say, 189 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:38,760 Speaker 1: well it's pending toxicology. They will give you a preliminary finding, 190 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 1: and that paints it rather broad strokes, doesn't it. People always, 191 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:46,640 Speaker 1: particularly in the world of true crime, they want to 192 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:51,920 Speaker 1: have those answers because people are curious by nature. However, 193 00:11:53,559 --> 00:11:56,080 Speaker 1: science doesn't work that way. It's not a drive through. 194 00:11:56,360 --> 00:11:59,520 Speaker 1: It takes time to get these tests run and to 195 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 1: do everything that has to be done, because you want 196 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:05,079 Speaker 1: to make sure that all of your bases are covered 197 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 1: before you come out with that final report. And this 198 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:11,040 Speaker 1: is this is critical because you know, we can talk 199 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 1: about all the science that you want to and the 200 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 1: details that are on the autopsy report, but one of 201 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:21,959 Speaker 1: the most binding things that is on autopsy report is 202 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:24,920 Speaker 1: in fact the forensic pathologists signature, and they're not going 203 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:28,319 Speaker 1: to sign anything until they know that they have all 204 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:30,960 Speaker 1: of the data that they need to come to a 205 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:35,520 Speaker 1: reasonable scientific conclusion. So with that said, there's a lot 206 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:39,199 Speaker 1: of components to the autopsy report. You can literally break 207 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:43,000 Speaker 1: it down. It kind of in the first round regarding 208 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:45,920 Speaker 1: the pathological diagnosis, and that'll be set up front, such 209 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:48,320 Speaker 1: as an Eliza's case, and we do have a pathological 210 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:50,679 Speaker 1: diagnosis in her case, and that is what were you 211 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 1: what were your findings, you know, to begin with, and 212 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:58,000 Speaker 1: then after that is established, you would essentially go through 213 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 1: the report at first off externally talk about what the 214 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:05,160 Speaker 1: body looked like at the time of presentation, when you 215 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:07,680 Speaker 1: receive the body, and then you'll go into a broad 216 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:11,600 Speaker 1: area that's literally called evidence of injury, where you kind 217 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:14,840 Speaker 1: of make your way through every type of injury that 218 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:19,560 Speaker 1: you annotated at the autopsy. And when you get to 219 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 1: let's just say you have head trauma in a particular case, 220 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:26,040 Speaker 1: you'll talk about it the tuma, the specific trauma. But 221 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:29,240 Speaker 1: when you get to, say, the section that covers the 222 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:33,800 Speaker 1: brain in the autopsy report, you'll go into great detail 223 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:36,920 Speaker 1: about how this evidence of injury that you made note 224 00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:40,720 Speaker 1: of earlier, how that injury actually impacted that organ or 225 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:43,280 Speaker 1: that organ system. And so it will break it down 226 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 1: section by section and sometimes you'll come across let's say, 227 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:48,520 Speaker 1: for instance, you get to the section that is the 228 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:51,800 Speaker 1: respiratory system, okay, which is going to talk about things 229 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:55,960 Speaker 1: like the lung and the cavity that the lung sit in, 230 00:13:56,640 --> 00:14:00,959 Speaker 1: and sometimes it's kind of boiler place. That means that 231 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:06,240 Speaker 1: they'll say that the lungs present in a normal anatomical 232 00:14:06,559 --> 00:14:09,720 Speaker 1: presentation and there is no evidence of trauma, there's no 233 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:13,840 Speaker 1: evidence of any kind of disease, that everything is normal, 234 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 1: but they have to make note of that to state 235 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:18,640 Speaker 1: that they did, in fact do the examination on the lungs, 236 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:20,600 Speaker 1: because you have to be able to rule things out 237 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 1: all the way along. It's not just it's not just 238 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:27,760 Speaker 1: a diagnosis of inclusion, you know, where it's some of 239 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 1: things have to be excluded. Well, you say that this 240 00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:33,720 Speaker 1: individual died as a result of head trauma, or are 241 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:36,440 Speaker 1: there any other contributing factors? You know, maybe they didn't 242 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 1: have the ability to breathe well, real well, and they 243 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 1: had some kind of unknown lesion on their lung compromise 244 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 1: their ability to breathing, so they collapse instruct their head, 245 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:46,280 Speaker 1: and so you look at the lungs and say, well, 246 00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:49,200 Speaker 1: there's nothing there that would have obstructed their ability to 247 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:52,320 Speaker 1: uptake oxygen. That has to be noted as well. So 248 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:54,840 Speaker 1: you got through its system by system, and then you 249 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:58,480 Speaker 1: know after you've gone through the anatomical issues, you get 250 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:03,000 Speaker 1: off into it, well, what's going on board relative at 251 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:05,520 Speaker 1: a chemical level. You look for the toxicology report and 252 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:09,520 Speaker 1: they run a standard panel standard things, you know, cocaine, 253 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:13,360 Speaker 1: any kind of opiate, benzo's built through two HC. The 254 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:15,720 Speaker 1: list goes on and on, but there's a standard panel 255 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:19,440 Speaker 1: they look for, and again it's a diagnosis of exclusion 256 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:23,280 Speaker 1: and inclusion. So if there's something there, you say, well, 257 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:25,880 Speaker 1: this was a positive finding, and then they'll give you 258 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:30,360 Speaker 1: the quantitative amount that means that yes, we found drug X, 259 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:33,720 Speaker 1: and this is how much was in it. And then 260 00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 1: you reference that and say, well is this a lethal level? 261 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:39,840 Speaker 1: And then if they have multiple drugs in there, you say, well, 262 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:43,040 Speaker 1: you know, is this a deadly combination? You know, one 263 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 1: of these drugs by themselves would not do harm to 264 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 1: an individual, but you combine it with something else like 265 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:51,200 Speaker 1: opiates and alcohol for instance, then that can be a 266 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:55,440 Speaker 1: deadly combination. Okay, So you have this list that's going 267 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:57,800 Speaker 1: on toxicologically, and of course, if you have a case 268 00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:03,120 Speaker 1: where it requires some kind of specialty science that's involved, 269 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:07,320 Speaker 1: such as in amazingly in Eliza's case, an anthropologist was 270 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:10,880 Speaker 1: brought in and they will actually render their own report 271 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:14,400 Speaker 1: for their own individual examination. That's in addition to what 272 00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:18,320 Speaker 1: the forensic pathologists does. They'll render their own independent report 273 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:21,920 Speaker 1: and that will actually be placed together with the autopsy report, 274 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:27,560 Speaker 1: and it paints it paints a very detailed picture of 275 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:48,960 Speaker 1: of all that remained of Aliza in this case. I 276 00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:53,800 Speaker 1: think we were all hoping for detail. And you know, 277 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:57,560 Speaker 1: they always say the devil is in the details, and 278 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:01,240 Speaker 1: certainly I think that's evidenced in a lots of Fletcher's case. 279 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:05,560 Speaker 1: We can see laid out before us in black and white, 280 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:11,920 Speaker 1: specifically what happened to this poor woman and what brought 281 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:15,280 Speaker 1: about her death. The folks up in Memphis that did 282 00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:20,800 Speaker 1: her examination did a highly detailed job, fantastic and finally 283 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:25,359 Speaker 1: we do have some answers. Jackie Eliza Fletcher. Her cause 284 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:32,240 Speaker 1: of death is a gunshot wound. I think that surprised everybody. 285 00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:36,720 Speaker 1: There were these issues of you know, disheveled clothing, she 286 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:40,679 Speaker 1: was back in an obscured area, you know. As I 287 00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:44,160 Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, I think it had been stated a couple 288 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:46,480 Speaker 1: of times that people, you know, thought that this was 289 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:51,120 Speaker 1: very intimate sexual kind of event that may have happened, 290 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:55,159 Speaker 1: and I think first blush for many folks as you 291 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:57,639 Speaker 1: think that with something like this, it's going to be 292 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:00,159 Speaker 1: an asphyxial death, maybe a choking or something like this, 293 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:03,880 Speaker 1: or maybe even up bludgeoning. And in some cases, of course, 294 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:06,840 Speaker 1: you have stabbing that's very intimate, but in this case 295 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:10,240 Speaker 1: it was a gunshot wound, and you can actually begin 296 00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:15,159 Speaker 1: to kind of learn a lot about her position, I 297 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:19,600 Speaker 1: think at the time of death when this gunshot wound 298 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:25,680 Speaker 1: was essentially perpetrated upon her body. In anatomy you talk 299 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:30,639 Speaker 1: about posterior and anterior, posterior being back, anteria being the front. 300 00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:34,679 Speaker 1: So she's got a gunshot wound that is with the 301 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 1: entrance being in the right parietal area. And if folks 302 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:43,840 Speaker 1: at home will go to the top of your ear, okay, 303 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:46,080 Speaker 1: on either side, it doesn't matter, but go the right 304 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:50,960 Speaker 1: the top of your ear and essentially diagonally from the 305 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:54,200 Speaker 1: top aspect of your ear, draw line diagonally about two 306 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:57,480 Speaker 1: to three inches, and that's going to put you right 307 00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:00,040 Speaker 1: in the area of your parietal bone. And it's a 308 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:03,480 Speaker 1: plate that's fused together with your temporal bone and the 309 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 1: frontal bone and all these other bones, and so it's 310 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:08,679 Speaker 1: going to be posterior, which means it's going to be 311 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:14,119 Speaker 1: to the rear. And the way this wound apparently tracks 312 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:19,320 Speaker 1: is from the right parietal some people say parietial the 313 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:26,840 Speaker 1: parietal area, and it tracks from essentially above to below. 314 00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:29,639 Speaker 1: That's going to be the trajectory, and it's going to 315 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 1: exit out of the left frontal area and the left 316 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:36,800 Speaker 1: frontal just you know, kind of think about your forehead, 317 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:40,960 Speaker 1: if you will, And it tracks across through the calvarium 318 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:44,399 Speaker 1: and you'll see that that word in the autypes of 319 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:47,560 Speaker 1: report calvarium. And when you see that, it's not something 320 00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 1: that most people see on a regular basis relative to anatomy, 321 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:55,680 Speaker 1: and the calvarium. Calvarium is essentially the skull cap, if 322 00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:58,440 Speaker 1: you will. So the totality of the skull cap, that's 323 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:02,280 Speaker 1: what we actually remove at autopsy. And so it goes 324 00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:06,240 Speaker 1: through her calvarium, through the cranial vault, and it exits 325 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:08,600 Speaker 1: out of the frontal bone adjacent through her forehead, and 326 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:13,080 Speaker 1: it's on the left aspect, and you begin to think 327 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:15,960 Speaker 1: about the nature of this wound. Now, it's not going 328 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 1: to be like this huge kind of ropping trajectory where 329 00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:22,360 Speaker 1: it's going to go. Say, for instance, if you had 330 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:25,359 Speaker 1: a gunshot wound to the right parietal area and it 331 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:28,040 Speaker 1: came out through say the left jaw or something. It's 332 00:20:28,119 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 1: not that acute the angle, it's not that acute, but 333 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:33,639 Speaker 1: it is slightly downward in trajectory. And the reason you 334 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:37,240 Speaker 1: want to know that is because it gives you not 335 00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:40,840 Speaker 1: just what position Eliza was in, but perhaps what the 336 00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:44,760 Speaker 1: perpetrator was in when they discharge this weapon into her skull. 337 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:49,200 Speaker 1: And you know, I've got to say something that is 338 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:52,399 Speaker 1: very definitive in this case. And it also goes to 339 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:56,239 Speaker 1: how long she had been down. Her body, particularly her 340 00:20:56,280 --> 00:21:00,359 Speaker 1: head was in a modern state of decomposition. It was 341 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:06,280 Speaker 1: to the point where there was very little soft tissue remaining, 342 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:09,800 Speaker 1: and that can be trouble for us at autopsy because 343 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:13,080 Speaker 1: on the surface of the skin and also the hair. 344 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:15,520 Speaker 1: If we're talking about we're trying to determine what the 345 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:19,119 Speaker 1: range of fire is, many times, if we have skin 346 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:24,399 Speaker 1: left behind, you will have powder deposition, which means powder 347 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:28,040 Speaker 1: deposits on the skin. And that is if it's in 348 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:32,160 Speaker 1: an intermediate range, which is essentially going to be about 349 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:35,440 Speaker 1: six inches away, okay, to a close range, to maybe 350 00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:38,160 Speaker 1: a contact range, and the skin will give you an 351 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:41,600 Speaker 1: understanding of how close this was because it's being distributed. 352 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:45,000 Speaker 1: And our friend Nancy always says, I love this analogy. 353 00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:49,280 Speaker 1: She always draws with gunshot wound determination of distance, and 354 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:51,960 Speaker 1: she talks about spraying the fire hose that the more 355 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:54,320 Speaker 1: you open it up, the bigger kind of spread. So 356 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 1: you figure the tighter the deposition of the powder or 357 00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:01,359 Speaker 1: the remnant of the powder that's left behind, the closer 358 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:05,040 Speaker 1: the individual is. It's just kind of common sense. Further 359 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:08,520 Speaker 1: way you move, the less deposition there's going to be, 360 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:12,600 Speaker 1: it'll be more sporadic. In this case, skin is essentially gone. 361 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:16,200 Speaker 1: But they were able to say that this apparently that 362 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:19,920 Speaker 1: this was an intermediate range, which means on the surface 363 00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:22,200 Speaker 1: of the skull you're going to have some kind of 364 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:26,040 Speaker 1: deposition there that would have entered through the skin and 365 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:29,080 Speaker 1: deposit on the exterior of the skull and giving you 366 00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:31,679 Speaker 1: an indication that the person was not a great distance 367 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:34,600 Speaker 1: away when they shot, and so they're right on top 368 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 1: of her. So there is no true contact wound as 369 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:42,600 Speaker 1: in where we've talked about before, where the gun is 370 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:47,400 Speaker 1: placed directly against the skull or anybody part. But directly 371 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 1: in this case, against the skull and pulled. Yet the 372 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:56,639 Speaker 1: distribution of the powder burn means that the shooter was 373 00:22:56,760 --> 00:23:00,920 Speaker 1: not very far away. So if the sub position is there, 374 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:04,000 Speaker 1: that would it make you think that she is already 375 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:08,000 Speaker 1: down on the ground and it's kind of fired that way. Yeah, 376 00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:10,879 Speaker 1: I think so, Yeah, I think so. And autopsy they 377 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:14,080 Speaker 1: make it pretty clear that they didn't recover projectile from 378 00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:17,600 Speaker 1: her skull. What does that mean? So, well, they didn't 379 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:20,959 Speaker 1: recover like okay, so you've got an exit essentially, So 380 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:23,960 Speaker 1: that means that the round passed from back to front, 381 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:29,320 Speaker 1: from right to left, okay, and probably slightly downward. They 382 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:31,920 Speaker 1: don't go into great detail about their trajectory, but that's 383 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:34,240 Speaker 1: kind of the field that you get for it. But 384 00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:37,160 Speaker 1: we do know the projectile exit out of the left 385 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:40,520 Speaker 1: frontal bone, which if everybody will essentially go above your 386 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:45,040 Speaker 1: left eyebrow slightly up and touch that area that's your 387 00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:48,120 Speaker 1: frontal bone. Okay, So the round would have exited through there. 388 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:51,960 Speaker 1: Now she's laying on the ground, which you know, there's 389 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:56,320 Speaker 1: a high probability and that round passed through her skull, 390 00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,520 Speaker 1: it would have been in the earth underlying her body. 391 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:06,000 Speaker 1: Now hear me right, the autopsy report is not the 392 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:10,439 Speaker 1: police report. So to find out more about the projectile, 393 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:13,600 Speaker 1: perhaps that would be detailed in the crime scene report. 394 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:16,280 Speaker 1: All right, that's not part of the autopsy report, so 395 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:18,879 Speaker 1: they would have gone out and in my experience, what 396 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:21,560 Speaker 1: happens is you got well metal detectors and you sweep 397 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:25,080 Speaker 1: that specific area, paying very close attention to where first off, 398 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:28,840 Speaker 1: where the body is found and observed, you don't find 399 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:33,160 Speaker 1: anything there, then you kind of just imagine you're going 400 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:36,679 Speaker 1: kind of in a spiral motion with the head of 401 00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:40,159 Speaker 1: the body being concentric that means in the middle, and 402 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 1: then you kind of go eccentrically with a spiraling with 403 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:46,919 Speaker 1: a metal detector, seeing if you're going to pick up 404 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:50,440 Speaker 1: any metallic bodies underlining. Then you have to excavate that, 405 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:52,520 Speaker 1: you know, where you kind of brush the dirt away, 406 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:57,000 Speaker 1: you take photos, measurements, and then you extricate that from 407 00:24:57,040 --> 00:25:00,359 Speaker 1: its resting place and take it in. Now, don't have 408 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:02,760 Speaker 1: that information on autopsy report, so that would be something 409 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:06,200 Speaker 1: you look for in the police report. Now, what can 410 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:09,359 Speaker 1: be done though at autopsy and what is done regularly, 411 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:13,200 Speaker 1: particularly in place like Memphis that's this size and deals 412 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:17,040 Speaker 1: in this volume. And it's key is that you do 413 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:21,640 Speaker 1: X rays of the body before you ever do an 414 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:24,120 Speaker 1: internal examination. A matter of fact, before you ever do 415 00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:27,120 Speaker 1: the external examination, the X ray the body first because 416 00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:30,120 Speaker 1: you want the body in as pristine condition as possible. 417 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:32,560 Speaker 1: And when you do the head x rays, one of 418 00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:36,680 Speaker 1: the things that kind of jumps to life is many 419 00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:40,800 Speaker 1: times bullets will fragment, even though the exit you'll have 420 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:43,320 Speaker 1: little bits of them that will kind of peel off, 421 00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:47,600 Speaker 1: if you will, and you will see this kind of 422 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:50,320 Speaker 1: tiny Sometimes it's more extensive than other times, but you'll 423 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:53,440 Speaker 1: see this tiny little lead storm that's contained in there, 424 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:57,480 Speaker 1: and as it has passed through on this trajectory that 425 00:25:57,520 --> 00:25:59,920 Speaker 1: we talked about just a moment ago, you'll see these 426 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,400 Speaker 1: little dots that are radio opaque, you'll see them in there. 427 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:06,400 Speaker 1: And it's a great way to document things because when 428 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:09,440 Speaker 1: you go to court, many times attorneys and judges are 429 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:13,680 Speaker 1: not a big fan of showing like overly grotesque images. Well, 430 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:17,399 Speaker 1: there's nothing grotesque about it. An X ray, Okay, you 431 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:19,280 Speaker 1: just throw it up there, you say, well, this is 432 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:21,560 Speaker 1: where all the lead is. You can see it demonstrated 433 00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:24,359 Speaker 1: right here. And it's a beautiful way to illustrate things, 434 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:27,720 Speaker 1: and you can illustrate trajectory. Sometimes whether too depend upon 435 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:33,440 Speaker 1: how good the X ray is. So another fascinating thing 436 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:37,919 Speaker 1: about this that if you're reading Allies's autopsy report, it 437 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:43,320 Speaker 1: talks about internal and external beveling. What does that mean? Yeah, 438 00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:45,800 Speaker 1: I know, isn't that fascinating. It's an interesting term because 439 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:49,200 Speaker 1: you think about beveled wood. For instance, like if you've 440 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,679 Speaker 1: got border on your floor adjacent to a carpet surface 441 00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:56,320 Speaker 1: or whatever, that's you have that piece of wood down 442 00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:59,520 Speaker 1: there and it'll be beveled. That means it has a 443 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:03,840 Speaker 1: curved to it. Well, say, for instance, let's let's talk 444 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:07,840 Speaker 1: about an entrance wound. Okay, if you have an entrance wound, 445 00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:13,359 Speaker 1: the projectile passes through following now passes through the exterior 446 00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:17,359 Speaker 1: of the skull, and as that bullet is going through 447 00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:21,280 Speaker 1: that little defect that it has made, the internal table 448 00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:24,640 Speaker 1: skull will literally blow out that bone fractures, and when 449 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:28,920 Speaker 1: it does, the interior of the wound will be beveled. 450 00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:31,440 Speaker 1: It'll have a curvature to it around there. And this 451 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:33,520 Speaker 1: is kind of fascinating because it's one of the ways 452 00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:35,680 Speaker 1: if we just find a free standing skull or free 453 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:38,199 Speaker 1: line skull if you will, and we have holes in 454 00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:43,439 Speaker 1: the skull. If we have beveling on either aspect, we 455 00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:46,000 Speaker 1: can determine what is the entrance and what is the exit. 456 00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:47,560 Speaker 1: And that's how we do that with the skull. So 457 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:51,199 Speaker 1: with the entrance wound, you'll have internal bevling where it 458 00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:54,360 Speaker 1: blows out, goes into the brain. You know, you'll get 459 00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:57,280 Speaker 1: those little bits of bone that'll track along that trajectory. 460 00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:02,000 Speaker 1: And then as the bullet exits, as it exits, another 461 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:07,960 Speaker 1: fascinating point here, you get external bevling. So in Eliza's case, 462 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:13,400 Speaker 1: when this projectile exited out of her frontal bone, it 463 00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:15,600 Speaker 1: blew out that part of the skull and it left 464 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:19,360 Speaker 1: external bevling around that area, and that tells us that 465 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:23,840 Speaker 1: this was in fact the exit. Want another interesting point 466 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:27,080 Speaker 1: that came out in the autopsy, and again we know 467 00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:32,880 Speaker 1: this poor woman suffered a very violent, brutal death, is 468 00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:37,240 Speaker 1: the actual physical injuries to her body. We know that 469 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:41,000 Speaker 1: the car when she was forced into the vehicle, it 470 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:44,360 Speaker 1: sat in the same position for about four minutes. We 471 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:49,760 Speaker 1: saw that on the surveillance video, and I guess you 472 00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:54,040 Speaker 1: would have to imagine what was going on at that time. 473 00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:58,400 Speaker 1: And as the autopsy shows, she had blunt forced injuries 474 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:03,480 Speaker 1: to her thighs, to her head, and her jaw was 475 00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:08,520 Speaker 1: broken in several places. I think, and you know, my 476 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:11,480 Speaker 1: opinion in dollar nine sense gets cup coffee some places. 477 00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:16,040 Speaker 1: But my opinion, what really stands out to me is 478 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:21,200 Speaker 1: this maxillo fracture. And our maxilla is not the lower jawbone. 479 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:23,600 Speaker 1: It's actually where the hard pallett is seated, you know, 480 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:27,240 Speaker 1: our upper teeth, well, the area below the nose. She 481 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:31,280 Speaker 1: had what was diagnosed as as actually a la fort 482 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:38,720 Speaker 1: to fort to fracture. And just imagine, okay, I'm sorry, 483 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:42,520 Speaker 1: I'm going to You've got to explain that that word. 484 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:44,040 Speaker 1: Where did it come from? What is it? What does 485 00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:48,160 Speaker 1: it mean? Well, that la fort is just a he's 486 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:50,560 Speaker 1: it's a person in the distant past that made this 487 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:55,120 Speaker 1: initial finding. Okay, Yeah, And this is sometimes called a 488 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,040 Speaker 1: pyramidal fracture. And if you imagine the shape of a 489 00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:03,320 Speaker 1: pyramid and being struck in your hard pallette okay, in 490 00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:07,120 Speaker 1: your well, in your maxilla, which is the upper portion 491 00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:09,360 Speaker 1: of you know, your jaw if you will, it's not 492 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:12,480 Speaker 1: you know, the jaw is actually the mandible mandibles lower 493 00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:18,440 Speaker 1: than upper maxilla max above. Struck in that area and 494 00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:24,400 Speaker 1: head along, okay, multiple times, probably then the bones in 495 00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:29,840 Speaker 1: your face that make up this maxillary area are acting 496 00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:33,959 Speaker 1: a fracture developmentally, starting all the way back in the wound. 497 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:36,400 Speaker 1: Your body began to kind of fuse together. You skull died, 498 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:38,920 Speaker 1: and many times you'll have these fracture lines along these 499 00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:43,400 Speaker 1: weaker areas, and if you're struck in the face multiple times, 500 00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:46,480 Speaker 1: that area, in the shape of a pyramid, will begin 501 00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:51,479 Speaker 1: a fracture. Now, this fracture itself wasn't complete, but most 502 00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:56,560 Speaker 1: of the time, if somebody sustains this Laford fracture, there's 503 00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:58,720 Speaker 1: a level one, you get up to level two. Most 504 00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:01,800 Speaker 1: of the time they arrive they arrived at the hospital unconscious. 505 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:04,800 Speaker 1: It's that powerful. It takes a tremendous amount of force 506 00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:08,800 Speaker 1: to facilitate this. And so she sustained that injury, and 507 00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:12,800 Speaker 1: it wasn't completely fractured into but it was fractured enough 508 00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:15,960 Speaker 1: so that you know it had begun to separate, and 509 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:20,600 Speaker 1: you know, when they began to examine it allies it remains, 510 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:24,120 Speaker 1: they were able to, you know, make that assessment that 511 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:26,120 Speaker 1: that was in fact the tough fracture that she had 512 00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:28,800 Speaker 1: sustained and that she had and that's in addition to 513 00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:32,400 Speaker 1: other things. And again I have to make note of this. 514 00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:38,680 Speaker 1: Her body has been down in the West Tendessee heat 515 00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:43,360 Speaker 1: for protracted period of time. Protracted in a sense that 516 00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:45,960 Speaker 1: as those of us that lived in the South, things 517 00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:50,360 Speaker 1: don't last a long time outside though. The environment just 518 00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:53,960 Speaker 1: absolutely attacks you and death. And that's unfortunately what happened 519 00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:55,640 Speaker 1: to her. So some of the things that you might 520 00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:58,320 Speaker 1: normally find, say, you know, areas of hemorrhage and that 521 00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:01,320 Speaker 1: sort of thing, are slightly opromised as a result of 522 00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:05,120 Speaker 1: decompositional changes. I think that it would be real difficult 523 00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:06,880 Speaker 1: to say, well, she was struck here here and here 524 00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:09,240 Speaker 1: by virtue of some kind of contusions she might have 525 00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,640 Speaker 1: had on her face. This type of injury would have 526 00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:16,320 Speaker 1: to come from being beaten. This type of injury comes 527 00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:18,440 Speaker 1: as a result of bl enforced trauma. This is not 528 00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:20,800 Speaker 1: something that just kind of spontaneously happens. And this is 529 00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:26,120 Speaker 1: not this is not a fracture in this area that 530 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:30,400 Speaker 1: would be associated, to say, with the firem's blast. This 531 00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:34,320 Speaker 1: is something that would have probably probably happened anti mortem, 532 00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:37,080 Speaker 1: and we all know, you know, listening to bodybags. Any 533 00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:40,800 Speaker 1: mortal means before death, and it's I think at least 534 00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:44,000 Speaker 1: you know you had mentioned that there was time spent 535 00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:47,600 Speaker 1: in this vehicle. This is a submission kind of thing. 536 00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:50,360 Speaker 1: Let me think about it. You're trying to get an 537 00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:55,960 Speaker 1: individual to submit to you. You've snatched this poor woman 538 00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:59,360 Speaker 1: off of the street and brought her into this vehicle 539 00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:01,440 Speaker 1: where you can troller wall. She doesn't want to be 540 00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:04,000 Speaker 1: in a vehicle with you, and so how are you 541 00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:06,240 Speaker 1: going to get her to submit? Well, you're going to 542 00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:09,560 Speaker 1: pop her in the face. And then you know, she's 543 00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:15,120 Speaker 1: got this horrible contusion lateral aspect of a right thigh, 544 00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:18,680 Speaker 1: and lateral means the outside, you know, the medial is 545 00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:21,280 Speaker 1: like in the middle, you know, so like in her thought, 546 00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:25,440 Speaker 1: this is lateral. So for some reason she has this 547 00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:32,520 Speaker 1: really nasty contusion to bruise and it existed long enough 548 00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:36,920 Speaker 1: so that it it was in the subcutaneous tissue, which 549 00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:39,440 Speaker 1: means below the skin. This isn't just something that's kind 550 00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:42,000 Speaker 1: of a surface event. This is something that has leached, 551 00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:47,320 Speaker 1: the hemorrhages leeched down into the underlying tissue. And you 552 00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:51,040 Speaker 1: begin to think about that. So she's getting struck in 553 00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:54,960 Speaker 1: multiple locations. I think at least probably to try to 554 00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:58,320 Speaker 1: get her to submit the injury that she has, you know, 555 00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:02,160 Speaker 1: to her face, that that injury that's related to that fracture, 556 00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:04,760 Speaker 1: that's you know, that's that's the kind of thing that 557 00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:08,760 Speaker 1: you'd see with somebody, you know, being unbuckled in a 558 00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:13,279 Speaker 1: car accident and slamming their face into a dashboard or 559 00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:17,880 Speaker 1: steering wheel or something, you know, or getting hit with 560 00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:20,560 Speaker 1: a heavy object in the face. It takes that kind 561 00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:24,080 Speaker 1: of energy. The perpetrator in this case was attempting to 562 00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:47,520 Speaker 1: get her to submit to his wants. I think, probably 563 00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:52,319 Speaker 1: for me, the most shocking thing about this examination and 564 00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:59,200 Speaker 1: what the medical examiner found was the fact that Eliza 565 00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:03,560 Speaker 1: had fent in her system. And I am just blown 566 00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:06,399 Speaker 1: away by that. I can't, you know, kind of wrap 567 00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:10,319 Speaker 1: my mind around that. Why in the world would this 568 00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:15,239 Speaker 1: mother this, why have this drug in her system? To 569 00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:18,000 Speaker 1: explain that comment, show, you're going to have to explain 570 00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:20,799 Speaker 1: to us what fentnyl is and what it does to 571 00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:26,200 Speaker 1: a body, and why this active runner who ran, if 572 00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:30,239 Speaker 1: I'm not mistaken eight point two miles a day, this 573 00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:33,520 Speaker 1: is not something that she would be using. Lord knows. 574 00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:38,960 Speaker 1: I can't even begin to imagine somebody that is performing 575 00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:42,799 Speaker 1: physically at her level would ever have fentnyl in their 576 00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:50,960 Speaker 1: system for anything. I can't imagine fentnyl itself. It's a narcotic, 577 00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:54,800 Speaker 1: all right. It's been used over the years to control 578 00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:58,759 Speaker 1: pain with essentially, and of course now it's it is 579 00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:05,080 Speaker 1: absolutely positively the scourge of our society at this point. 580 00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:08,280 Speaker 1: We've got people dying of the stuff left and right 581 00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:11,640 Speaker 1: out on the streets. There are tales of police officers 582 00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:14,640 Speaker 1: going to and this is how deadly it is. Police 583 00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:17,520 Speaker 1: officers pulling over cars that have fentnel inside of them, 584 00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:21,000 Speaker 1: that open up a bag and just merely inhalation, slight 585 00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:23,040 Speaker 1: inhalation of the dust that comes up out of the 586 00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:26,120 Speaker 1: bag is enough to put grown men in the hospital. 587 00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:30,680 Speaker 1: It is. It's a nasty, nasty drug, and the stuff 588 00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:34,240 Speaker 1: is being manufactured out there, and for some reason Eliza 589 00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:40,439 Speaker 1: had this, this agent in her system. And I can't 590 00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:43,840 Speaker 1: begin to imagine that this is something that she's going 591 00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:46,640 Speaker 1: out and buying on the street that I don't think 592 00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:49,560 Speaker 1: that that's even within the realm of possibility in this case. 593 00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:54,239 Speaker 1: It seems to me that this is something that the 594 00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:59,240 Speaker 1: perpetrator applied to her in some way. The autopsy report 595 00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:03,760 Speaker 1: really doesn't get of us an indication as to the application. 596 00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:07,600 Speaker 1: If you will, it can be taken in a pill form, 597 00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:11,520 Speaker 1: and certainly there are any number of cases out there 598 00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:14,320 Speaker 1: that we're finding on the streets where people are suddenly 599 00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:18,319 Speaker 1: dying of fentol related deaths because it's mixed with other 600 00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:21,760 Speaker 1: drugs that you might encounter out on the street, almost 601 00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:26,000 Speaker 1: as like backfilling drugs with this other drug, and it 602 00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:31,240 Speaker 1: makes for a lethal cocktail. And in this particular case, 603 00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:36,239 Speaker 1: she had it on board. What's fascinating about it is 604 00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:40,680 Speaker 1: the fact that she had it on board to the 605 00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:46,319 Speaker 1: point where it wasn't just like they had found. And 606 00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:49,120 Speaker 1: you can look in the autopsy report to read this through. 607 00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:52,320 Speaker 1: There was not a remnant of what they referred to 608 00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:57,160 Speaker 1: as particulate pill matter in her gastric content. She had food, 609 00:37:57,400 --> 00:37:59,160 Speaker 1: you know, in her stomach and this sort of thing, 610 00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:04,120 Speaker 1: but she had it to the point in her system 611 00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:10,640 Speaker 1: where it had begun to metabolize. So, taking that thought, 612 00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:15,160 Speaker 1: and let's kind of expand on that a bit. Taking 613 00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:17,720 Speaker 1: that thought, she would have had to have been administered 614 00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:22,040 Speaker 1: this drug, which would arguably put her in, if not 615 00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:25,800 Speaker 1: a comatose state, certainly a dream like state that, again 616 00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:28,480 Speaker 1: going back to this idea of compliance, would make her 617 00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:35,000 Speaker 1: totally incompletely compliant to whatever the wishes of this perpetrator 618 00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:38,319 Speaker 1: would have been. It had begun to break down. So 619 00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:42,960 Speaker 1: not only did you have the finnyl, you had north 620 00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:45,239 Speaker 1: fennyl that was in there, and the north finnyl is 621 00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:48,560 Speaker 1: actually a metabolite. This is evidence that the drug had 622 00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:52,600 Speaker 1: begun to break down and be metabolized into the system. 623 00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:57,280 Speaker 1: What made this doubly difficult for the medical examiner is that, 624 00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:00,000 Speaker 1: and this is a practice that we do would severely 625 00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:03,880 Speaker 1: decomposed bodies. You're not always going to be able to 626 00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:07,600 Speaker 1: take a blood sample that's going to be effective in 627 00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:12,319 Speaker 1: running toxicology. So when it comes to Aliza in her 628 00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:15,719 Speaker 1: particular case, they had to draw up once referred to 629 00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:19,839 Speaker 1: as decompositional fluid, and this is fluid that will be 630 00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:25,120 Speaker 1: mixed with blood, but you'll also have remnant of the 631 00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:29,120 Speaker 1: cells beginning to degrade and they begin to liquify. It's 632 00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:35,839 Speaker 1: very tough to break decompositional fluid down into components so 633 00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:38,839 Speaker 1: that you can begin to kind of study what's in there. 634 00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:41,840 Speaker 1: But it's something that people at our forensics labs do 635 00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:45,120 Speaker 1: and they do regularly, and they did in fact, fine 636 00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:49,200 Speaker 1: phenyl and nor fenyl in her system, along with caffeine 637 00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:53,239 Speaker 1: and another component that's consistent with probably eating chocolate more 638 00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:57,080 Speaker 1: than likely. But they One of the things that we 639 00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:01,239 Speaker 1: do in cases of not having access to blood or 640 00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:04,840 Speaker 1: maybe urine in order to facilitate a drug test is 641 00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:07,600 Speaker 1: that we will take samples of the liver spin it down. 642 00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:11,839 Speaker 1: So essentially a slice of the liver, decomposing liver will 643 00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:14,800 Speaker 1: be placed into a centrifuge and it will be spun 644 00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:19,160 Speaker 1: down till it can be liquefied and that'll be drawn 645 00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:23,240 Speaker 1: up and then you run that for toxicology. And what's 646 00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:26,840 Speaker 1: interesting about fentnyl is that for all practical purpose, that 647 00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:30,640 Speaker 1: spentyl is essentially processed through the liver, and so you 648 00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:33,879 Speaker 1: would have you would have a concentration of it. There 649 00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:38,840 Speaker 1: we give you an indication. And this is where history 650 00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:42,520 Speaker 1: comes in. You begin to speak to her family. First off, 651 00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:46,400 Speaker 1: who's her treating physician. Is there any history that this 652 00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:50,520 Speaker 1: treating physician at any point in time has prescribed her fentnyl. 653 00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:55,440 Speaker 1: The remaining finding in this autopsy that has many people 654 00:40:55,520 --> 00:41:00,840 Speaker 1: confused is that the assumption had been made that Eliza 655 00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:05,440 Speaker 1: Fletcher had been raped. Her clothing was found her shorts 656 00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:11,240 Speaker 1: specifically was found off her body in another location, Yet 657 00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:16,400 Speaker 1: the autopsy does not confirm or deny that Eliza Fletcher 658 00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:19,719 Speaker 1: was raped. To say that someone is raped at an 659 00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:24,040 Speaker 1: autopsy is not necessarily something that you can solely confirm 660 00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:28,279 Speaker 1: with the autopsy results. The physician, per their examination will 661 00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:31,520 Speaker 1: note any kind of trauma that might have existed, and 662 00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:34,960 Speaker 1: if you've got a person that is essentially compliant, if 663 00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:37,879 Speaker 1: there's you know, if they've been knocked unconscious with either 664 00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:41,560 Speaker 1: through physical violence, which you know, we've got some evidence 665 00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:44,040 Speaker 1: that there was physical violence, you know, with a bruising 666 00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:47,560 Speaker 1: on the thigh, and then we've got this horrible facial 667 00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:51,480 Speaker 1: fracture that's taken place. And then at a chemical level, 668 00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:54,880 Speaker 1: you've got a drug that would certainly make somebody compliant. 669 00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:58,280 Speaker 1: You're not necessarily going to have evidence of a forced 670 00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:03,080 Speaker 1: event when it comes to sexual salt, Okay, So it's 671 00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:05,400 Speaker 1: at that point that you're still going to do a 672 00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:08,359 Speaker 1: rape kit, and in her case, they did. They were 673 00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:11,640 Speaker 1: able to do the swabs that are normally done in 674 00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:16,080 Speaker 1: a rape kit. The purpose for the swabs is to 675 00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:19,839 Speaker 1: first off, see if there is any ejaculate at all 676 00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:22,120 Speaker 1: where you would expect to find it in the case 677 00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:27,360 Speaker 1: of a rape, all right, and these swabs are immediately removed. 678 00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:30,279 Speaker 1: The swabs are actually you take and you do a 679 00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:33,960 Speaker 1: smear which goes on to a slide, and of course 680 00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:36,600 Speaker 1: you know they're going to pop that under a microscope 681 00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:40,120 Speaker 1: per the examination and see if there's any sperm that 682 00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:43,399 Speaker 1: might be there. And in cases where you have an 683 00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:46,120 Speaker 1: acute event, where you have somebody that comes in the 684 00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:48,360 Speaker 1: hospital they say they've been raped, they do a rape exam, 685 00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:52,520 Speaker 1: and you have in dwelling semen and they take that sample, 686 00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:55,239 Speaker 1: you know the semen might still be viable at that 687 00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:57,200 Speaker 1: point in time, because sometimes you can tell a lot 688 00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:00,359 Speaker 1: about the perpetrator based upon that. So if you've got 689 00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:04,120 Speaker 1: an acute event and somebody, you know, the sperm or 690 00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:09,239 Speaker 1: the lack thereof, there might be an indication of impotence, 691 00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:12,760 Speaker 1: and you know, you can certainly do a DNA profile 692 00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:15,680 Speaker 1: in a case like that. In this case, Liza's body 693 00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:19,640 Speaker 1: was greatly decomposed. I don't know how much success you 694 00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:21,680 Speaker 1: would have with that and also the other factor you 695 00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:24,880 Speaker 1: have to think is did a perpetrator use a condom 696 00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:28,560 Speaker 1: when they were assaulting her? And that means that any 697 00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:31,479 Speaker 1: kind of seamen that may have been left behind would 698 00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:33,480 Speaker 1: have been captured in the condom and that would have 699 00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:37,200 Speaker 1: been removed and taken taken away. That all has to 700 00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:40,319 Speaker 1: factor into your into your thoughts. I know that they 701 00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:46,080 Speaker 1: did neil clippings and neil scraping, so we're looking at autopsy. 702 00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:48,719 Speaker 1: We're trying to find any kind of trace evidence that 703 00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:52,520 Speaker 1: might be beneath the fingernails, you know, like in an 704 00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:56,240 Speaker 1: attempt to fight a perpetrator off, to get them off 705 00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:58,960 Speaker 1: of you. And in Liza's case, was she you know, 706 00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:01,000 Speaker 1: you have to ask a question and was she capable 707 00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:04,479 Speaker 1: at this point if a sexual assault was in fact 708 00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:07,480 Speaker 1: perpetrated against her, and was she conscious enough in order 709 00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:11,400 Speaker 1: to be able to facilitate fending awesome one? And certainly 710 00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:13,800 Speaker 1: that's a question they will have to be asked and answered. 711 00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:18,320 Speaker 1: A suspect again has been charged in Eliza Fletcher's murdered 712 00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:25,280 Speaker 1: that case has not yet gone to trial. I'm Joseph 713 00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:28,520 Speaker 1: Scott Morgan and this is Bodybacks