WEBVTT - #038 Jason Flom with Jon-Adrian Velazquez 0:00:01.400 --> 0:00:03.600 This is a hard one for me to even talk 0:00:03.640 --> 0:00:09.720 about because John Agrian Alasquez is someone who I consider 0:00:10.039 --> 0:00:13.360 well more than a close friend, I consider him extended family. 0:00:16.000 --> 0:00:19.480 I hate to report that nothing much has changed since 0:00:19.840 --> 0:00:22.880 the episode I recorded with him behind the walls of 0:00:23.040 --> 0:00:27.120 maximum security prison sing Sing Correctional Facility on March sixth, 0:00:27.640 --> 0:00:28.720 twenty seventeen. 0:00:28.840 --> 0:00:29.600 He's still there. 0:00:29.760 --> 0:00:32.160 I mean, just think about that's two and a half 0:00:32.200 --> 0:00:35.600 years ago, and he's been in for well over two 0:00:35.640 --> 0:00:41.040 decades now. The bad news is that, even with a 0:00:41.120 --> 0:00:45.280 tremendous amount of effort from so many great advocates, his 0:00:45.400 --> 0:00:48.440 motion for new trial based on a Brady violation was denied. 0:00:49.000 --> 0:00:51.280 I'm not really sure how that could happen. The Brady 0:00:51.479 --> 0:00:55.800 violation would seem to be obvious to almost anyone, but 0:00:56.120 --> 0:00:57.000 this judge. 0:00:56.680 --> 0:00:57.680 Didn't see it that way. 0:00:58.400 --> 0:01:03.400 So JJ is anyone making the best of a terrible situation. 0:01:03.560 --> 0:01:05.440 And I will. 0:01:05.280 --> 0:01:09.880 Say this sinxing Correctional hosts some wonderful events called Choices, 0:01:10.160 --> 0:01:12.800 which are focused on helping children of inmates follow their 0:01:12.840 --> 0:01:16.320 own paths in life and not make the mistakes that 0:01:16.360 --> 0:01:20.360 their fathers may have made. In JJ's case, so John 0:01:20.360 --> 0:01:23.360 Adrien's case, he didn't make any mistakes, but many of 0:01:23.360 --> 0:01:27.000 the men who are incarcerated there certainly did things that 0:01:27.160 --> 0:01:29.880 we want to help steer their children away from. So 0:01:30.040 --> 0:01:33.320 in April twenty seventeen. In December of twenty eighteen, JJ 0:01:34.200 --> 0:01:37.560 John Adrien organized, fundraised and was the massive ceremonies of 0:01:37.600 --> 0:01:38.399 the Choices events. 0:01:38.400 --> 0:01:40.200 I was there. It was a powerful presentation. 0:01:40.680 --> 0:01:44.319 In October of twenty seventeen, he organized, coordinated, and co 0:01:44.480 --> 0:01:51.760 moderated NYCHEPS. That's nychep's second annual conference. Nychep's collective goal 0:01:51.840 --> 0:01:54.680 is to increase access to higher education for those impacted 0:01:54.680 --> 0:01:57.040 by the criminal justice system and to pool resources in 0:01:57.120 --> 0:02:00.480 order to create seamless access to quality education in prison 0:02:00.520 --> 0:02:04.640 and beyond. In October twenty seventeen, he also organized and 0:02:04.680 --> 0:02:08.480 facilitated the first ever job Readiness and re Entry Initiative 0:02:08.480 --> 0:02:12.200 at sing Sing for individuals in the Singing population who 0:02:12.280 --> 0:02:14.880 have eighteen months or less until they're to be released. 0:02:15.200 --> 0:02:18.639 It's designed to prepare them for re entry so important. 0:02:19.400 --> 0:02:23.480 While imprisoned, John Adrian has been a teacher Fellow for 0:02:23.600 --> 0:02:27.480 Columbia University and the Psychology Course from September to December 0:02:27.560 --> 0:02:30.680 twenty eighteen, and he's still an administrative program assistant for 0:02:30.760 --> 0:02:33.880 Hudson Link for Higher Education in prison, a position he's 0:02:33.919 --> 0:02:35.400 held since twenty fifteen. 0:02:35.680 --> 0:02:37.320 His accomplishments behind. 0:02:37.000 --> 0:02:41.079 Bars are above and beyond the accomplishments of so many 0:02:41.080 --> 0:02:43.120 people in free society, and I just want to get 0:02:43.160 --> 0:02:43.799 him home. 0:02:50.520 --> 0:02:54.240 With the police banging on the door, open up. 0:02:55.800 --> 0:02:57.680 The choice to be in that lineup was the last 0:02:57.720 --> 0:03:00.760 choice I made as a free man. A year later, 0:03:00.800 --> 0:03:04.040 I ended up writing the system. I'm going to be 0:03:04.080 --> 0:03:06.160 one of those people who everyone in the world is 0:03:06.200 --> 0:03:06.520 going to. 0:03:06.440 --> 0:03:08.640 Think as a monster or suspect is a monster for 0:03:08.680 --> 0:03:09.880 the rest of my life, and I'm just going to 0:03:09.960 --> 0:03:10.920 have to come to peace with that. 0:03:12.800 --> 0:03:14.880 Somebody was able to look at my picture in the 0:03:14.960 --> 0:03:18.440 database and say that I was somewhere where I definitely wasn't. 0:03:20.040 --> 0:03:22.800 I overheard three of the jailers discussing what part they 0:03:22.880 --> 0:03:25.040 might have to play in my hanging. They had been 0:03:25.080 --> 0:03:28.280 told that two prison officers would have to participate in 0:03:28.280 --> 0:03:32.480 my execution. Now I walked back inside that prison for 0:03:32.560 --> 0:03:34.880 the last time. Man all help broke loose. 0:03:34.920 --> 0:03:45.920 But welcome to another edition of Wrongful Conviction. Today's a 0:03:46.040 --> 0:03:49.280 very special day because this is the debut of wrongful 0:03:49.280 --> 0:03:53.280 conviction behind Bars, and our guest today is my dear friend, 0:03:53.520 --> 0:03:56.760 an innocent man stuck in a nightmare here at Sing 0:03:56.880 --> 0:03:57.480 Sing prison. 0:03:57.720 --> 0:04:00.040 John Adrian Velasquez, also known as Jay. 0:04:00.480 --> 0:04:04.000 John Adrian Belasquez, convicted of killing a retired New York 0:04:04.000 --> 0:04:07.120 City police officer during a botched robbery and Harlem. Fifty 0:04:07.200 --> 0:04:10.120 nine year old Albert Ward was killed. Blaskaz was found 0:04:10.120 --> 0:04:13.480 guilty of second degree murder JJ. Velaskaz was thrown in 0:04:13.480 --> 0:04:15.720 a lineup been fingered for murdered by a drug dealer 0:04:15.720 --> 0:04:18.479 who the police threatened with the rest with no physical evidence. 0:04:18.560 --> 0:04:20.320 Valasquez was prosecuted for murder. 0:04:20.400 --> 0:04:23.080 This sentence twenty five years to life. 0:04:23.279 --> 0:04:24.880 Valaskaz remains in prison. 0:04:26.520 --> 0:04:27.760 JJ. Welcome to the show. 0:04:28.000 --> 0:04:29.280 Thank you so much for having me. 0:04:29.360 --> 0:04:31.760 You're hearing a lot of background noise today, and there's 0:04:31.760 --> 0:04:33.880 a very simple reason for that, which is that we 0:04:33.920 --> 0:04:37.200 are inside of Sing Sing correctional facility and it is 0:04:37.240 --> 0:04:40.160 a noisy place and there's really no getting away from it. 0:04:40.480 --> 0:04:43.560 I apologize for any distractions that you're going to experience 0:04:43.640 --> 0:04:47.200 during today's show. We've highlighted the cases of over a 0:04:47.240 --> 0:04:50.960 dozen people so far who've been exonerated, and my hope 0:04:51.440 --> 0:04:55.440 is that in bringing more exposure and light to your situation, 0:04:55.640 --> 0:04:58.400 that this will be another part of the process of 0:04:58.440 --> 0:05:02.600 getting you out. Because JJ is just as innocent as 0:05:02.920 --> 0:05:04.760 any of the people who've been on the show, but 0:05:04.960 --> 0:05:07.719 as of yet, he has not been able to win 0:05:07.760 --> 0:05:10.760 his freedom. So that's what we're here to talk about today. 0:05:11.040 --> 0:05:13.599 But before we even get into that, I want to 0:05:13.600 --> 0:05:16.600 go back. Let's go back to how you grew up, 0:05:16.640 --> 0:05:18.760 where you grew up. You know, we like to always 0:05:18.800 --> 0:05:19.960 give a little context. 0:05:20.240 --> 0:05:22.880 Sure, I'm a native New Yorker, grew up in a 0:05:22.880 --> 0:05:26.520 middle class family home. My mother was a healthcare worker 0:05:26.600 --> 0:05:29.479 and eventually she went through training and became a union 0:05:29.600 --> 0:05:32.880 organizer for eleven ninety nine. My father is a former 0:05:33.279 --> 0:05:36.200 was a former US Army veteran who later became an 0:05:36.240 --> 0:05:40.680 Amtrak police officer. By the age of ten, things changed 0:05:40.720 --> 0:05:44.080 in my household. I started to realize a lot of 0:05:44.200 --> 0:05:47.719 arguments and fights were happening between my parents, and it 0:05:47.800 --> 0:05:50.359 was because my father was actually living a double life. 0:05:50.520 --> 0:05:52.960 He had two families. I found out for the first 0:05:53.040 --> 0:05:56.400 time that I had a younger brother that was five 0:05:56.480 --> 0:06:00.040 years younger than me. Half brother from another mother. It 0:06:00.120 --> 0:06:02.400 was kind of ecstatic to have a brother. At that time, 0:06:02.440 --> 0:06:04.200 I was young and I was naive, and I didn't 0:06:04.240 --> 0:06:08.040 really get to see what was about to happen because 0:06:08.279 --> 0:06:11.760 everything changed. The dynamics of my household changed. My father 0:06:11.880 --> 0:06:14.640 wasn't around as much anymore, and he made it his 0:06:14.760 --> 0:06:19.400 business to remain present in my life. But it's impossible 0:06:19.440 --> 0:06:23.080 to be two places at once, and eventually I started 0:06:23.120 --> 0:06:26.000 to fill that void that I missed with my father 0:06:26.360 --> 0:06:30.560 by spending more time in the Devil's playground. And for 0:06:30.640 --> 0:06:32.840 those that are listening that may not understand what the 0:06:32.880 --> 0:06:36.240 devil's playground is, the streets of New York are harsh, 0:06:36.600 --> 0:06:38.240 and when you go out there and you start to 0:06:38.360 --> 0:06:41.960 experience and be exposed to the streets, you start being 0:06:42.000 --> 0:06:46.960 overwhelmed by certain environmental factors. And in my particular neighborhood, 0:06:47.160 --> 0:06:50.000 there was a lot of negative peer influence and that 0:06:50.120 --> 0:06:54.880 kind of changed the dynamics of my thinking. It changed 0:06:54.920 --> 0:06:58.160 the trajectory of my interests where at one point all 0:06:58.200 --> 0:07:02.720 I cared about was school, sports, and home, And then 0:07:02.920 --> 0:07:09.119 a time came where I lost interest in home in school, 0:07:09.320 --> 0:07:12.360 but I still had that interest in sports. I had 0:07:12.360 --> 0:07:16.440 this dream because I was good. Baseball was really where 0:07:16.480 --> 0:07:19.000 I was at a lot of people believed in my talent. 0:07:19.240 --> 0:07:20.920 I had gotten hit by a bus at the corner 0:07:20.920 --> 0:07:23.200 of my school when I was sixteen, days after my 0:07:23.240 --> 0:07:26.720 sixteenth birthday, and when the doctors told me that I 0:07:26.760 --> 0:07:29.280 would never be able to compete at the same level 0:07:29.320 --> 0:07:32.280 that I was used to. That changed my life. That 0:07:32.400 --> 0:07:35.880 was a crossroad at that point when school went out 0:07:35.880 --> 0:07:38.760 the window, or when sports went out the window. Rather, 0:07:38.840 --> 0:07:41.320 school went out the window with it, and I started 0:07:41.320 --> 0:07:46.640 cutting class, and before you knew it, I became so rebellious. 0:07:46.680 --> 0:07:48.800 There were so many arguments in my household with my 0:07:48.880 --> 0:07:51.280 mom's and I would try to play my father against 0:07:51.320 --> 0:07:53.600 my mother and my mother against my father. And eventually 0:07:53.680 --> 0:07:55.040 I just got tired of it all and I ran 0:07:55.080 --> 0:07:58.000 away from home and in search of my independence. In 0:07:58.000 --> 0:08:02.000 pursuit of my independence, I found my self homeless. I've 0:08:02.040 --> 0:08:04.680 had many nights where I went to sleep hungry, and 0:08:05.560 --> 0:08:07.120 I know what it is to live off of a 0:08:07.160 --> 0:08:09.680 dollar a salami and a dollar cheese and a stolen 0:08:09.680 --> 0:08:14.600 loaf of bread. And that's basically where everything started for me. 0:08:15.080 --> 0:08:20.200 As a whole different aspect of living in New York 0:08:20.400 --> 0:08:22.800 because I was on my own and I didn't have 0:08:22.840 --> 0:08:25.840 working papers, I didn't have an ID, I was a 0:08:25.880 --> 0:08:28.480 high school drop out. I'm running for my mother and 0:08:28.480 --> 0:08:30.480 my father, so I can't I got to stay away 0:08:30.480 --> 0:08:32.280 from police, I got to stay away from anybody who 0:08:32.280 --> 0:08:35.320 can officially report me to my family. And it was 0:08:35.360 --> 0:08:38.120 a matter of pride, like I left and I didn't 0:08:38.120 --> 0:08:40.040 want to go back. And then there was also a 0:08:40.080 --> 0:08:42.360 matter of fear where it was like I'm going to 0:08:42.400 --> 0:08:45.520 be judged when it gets scolded, you know, So there 0:08:45.600 --> 0:08:49.080 was shame. There was a lot of different factors playing 0:08:49.120 --> 0:08:51.600 in and it just made me go deeper and deeper. 0:08:51.640 --> 0:08:54.160 And it was like, I've realized now that that was 0:08:54.200 --> 0:08:57.160 the worst choice in my life, because all I did 0:08:57.280 --> 0:09:01.359 from that point forward was continued to make worse choices 0:09:01.600 --> 0:09:02.840 that dig the deeper grave. 0:09:03.720 --> 0:09:09.599 You somehow or other, managed to survive very difficult circumstances, 0:09:09.640 --> 0:09:12.280 a lot of disappointments, a lot of things that no 0:09:12.480 --> 0:09:15.600 child should have to go through and end up on 0:09:15.640 --> 0:09:19.040 the streets. But you turned it around to the extent 0:09:19.080 --> 0:09:22.520 that you met a great woman, right and you had 0:09:22.559 --> 0:09:25.320 a couple of kids. Yeah, So how did you go 0:09:25.480 --> 0:09:28.319 from a sixteen, seventeen year old kid on the streets 0:09:28.400 --> 0:09:31.200 to being a twenty two year old man with a 0:09:31.240 --> 0:09:33.960 couple of kids and a wife and more of a 0:09:34.000 --> 0:09:35.559 stable situation. 0:09:36.000 --> 0:09:39.040 So basically what happened is being in the streets. I 0:09:39.080 --> 0:09:43.720 met Vanessa. I met her at sixteen turning seventeen. Eventually 0:09:43.720 --> 0:09:45.680 I started living with her, and her family took me 0:09:45.760 --> 0:09:48.720 in and I was still trying to survive and I 0:09:48.840 --> 0:09:51.319 was moving too fast for my own good. Before you 0:09:51.400 --> 0:09:55.120 knew it, I was a father, and that made me 0:09:55.160 --> 0:09:57.800 start to take life a lot more seriously. And I'm 0:09:57.840 --> 0:09:59.720 trying to figure out my way and say, all right, 0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:01.560 and I need to do something, and I need to 0:10:01.600 --> 0:10:04.040 do something to ensure that my family's going to be 0:10:04.080 --> 0:10:06.880 all right. Tried to look for jobs, but again my 0:10:06.960 --> 0:10:10.080 high school drop out. At that point, I didn't know 0:10:10.160 --> 0:10:13.040 what skills I may have had that were employable. I 0:10:13.080 --> 0:10:15.360 was a child trying to find my way. Before you 0:10:15.440 --> 0:10:18.240 knew it, I was a father with another child on 0:10:18.280 --> 0:10:21.480 the way, and it was rough. I was basically living 0:10:21.520 --> 0:10:24.400 off of Vanessa because she was getting welfare, and it's 0:10:24.440 --> 0:10:27.400 all social service, you know, SSI. I mean, the rent 0:10:27.480 --> 0:10:30.800 was under one hundred dollars, so it was affordable, you know. 0:10:31.120 --> 0:10:33.920 But at the same token, they don't know I'm living there. 0:10:34.320 --> 0:10:37.920 And it's crazy because, yeah, I got arrested a few times, 0:10:38.160 --> 0:10:42.520 no charges ever, you know, stuck. I've gotten arrested for loitering. 0:10:42.600 --> 0:10:45.400 I've gotten arrested for all kinds of little nonsense that 0:10:45.440 --> 0:10:47.560 happens in the neighborhood. They gave me a trespassing for 0:10:47.640 --> 0:10:49.440 going to see a friend in the projects because I 0:10:49.440 --> 0:10:52.640 don't live in the projects. What people need to realize 0:10:52.640 --> 0:10:54.920 in New York and all over the world is that 0:10:55.480 --> 0:10:57.760 all it takes for you to be in my shoes 0:10:58.120 --> 0:11:00.520 is to get arrested, for them to take a picture, 0:11:00.920 --> 0:11:02.760 for them to take a name and put it in 0:11:02.800 --> 0:11:06.320 a system, for them to take your fingerprints. That's what 0:11:06.440 --> 0:11:09.960 starts everything. That's what started for me. Somebody was able 0:11:10.000 --> 0:11:12.680 to look at my picture in a database and say 0:11:12.720 --> 0:11:14.800 that I was somewhere where I definitely wasn't. 0:11:15.320 --> 0:11:17.680 And I want to talk about that for a second, JJ, 0:11:17.840 --> 0:11:21.240 because I'm very well aware of the fact that in 0:11:21.480 --> 0:11:25.079 the poorest neighborhoods like the one that you were residing in, 0:11:25.360 --> 0:11:27.920 they do these sweeps and they'll pick people up for 0:11:28.840 --> 0:11:31.600 riding a bike on the sidewalk, or like you said, 0:11:31.679 --> 0:11:33.960 visiting a friend. I mean, I'm not sure how that's 0:11:33.960 --> 0:11:37.000 a crime, you know, trespassing, You could call trespassing anything. 0:11:37.040 --> 0:11:39.200 I mean, you might as well arrest somebody for breathing. 0:11:39.360 --> 0:11:42.720 It's you know, it's almost a fada complee that a 0:11:42.840 --> 0:11:45.840 young person like yourself, especially a person of color, is 0:11:45.880 --> 0:11:49.520 going to end up in the system in some form 0:11:49.640 --> 0:11:51.720 or another for doing the same type of thing that 0:11:51.800 --> 0:11:53.559 other people in other parts of the city or other 0:11:53.559 --> 0:11:54.679 parts of the country would not. 0:11:54.600 --> 0:11:55.360 Get arrested for. 0:11:55.520 --> 0:11:57.960 As you said, that starts a chain of events that 0:11:58.200 --> 0:12:02.520 can only have negative consequence and in your case, tragic consequences. 0:12:02.800 --> 0:12:03.640 When I tell these. 0:12:03.520 --> 0:12:06.040 Stories to people, they go, but that can be like, 0:12:06.080 --> 0:12:09.920 you can't convict somebody with no evidence, but you can absolutely. 0:12:10.160 --> 0:12:12.640 So there you were, you have your two kids, You're 0:12:12.880 --> 0:12:14.880 turning your life around, doing the best you can. 0:12:14.960 --> 0:12:17.320 At the time, yeah, I was actually a student at 0:12:17.320 --> 0:12:21.280 TCI Technical Careers Institute trying to learn about computer programming, 0:12:21.400 --> 0:12:23.560 trying to get a skill that would be employable. 0:12:23.600 --> 0:12:25.960 And to your credit, it's interesting because I think for 0:12:26.040 --> 0:12:30.400 some people, the responsibility of fatherhood, of having become a 0:12:30.440 --> 0:12:32.800 father at such a young age causes them to run. 0:12:33.200 --> 0:12:34.760 But in your case, you took it seriously, and you 0:12:34.800 --> 0:12:36.320 took it as it actually has an opportunity to turn 0:12:36.360 --> 0:12:36.960 your life around. 0:12:37.080 --> 0:12:37.720 Absolutely. 0:12:37.800 --> 0:12:39.800 So one day everything changed. 0:12:40.160 --> 0:12:42.840 It's almost like a blink of an eye. I receive 0:12:42.880 --> 0:12:45.760 a phone call. It was a Saturday morning, and it's 0:12:45.760 --> 0:12:48.160 from my brother's mother, Carmen, who I also have a 0:12:48.240 --> 0:12:52.480 very close relationship with. And basically my license, my driver's 0:12:52.520 --> 0:12:55.480 license was addressed to my father's address and that's where 0:12:55.520 --> 0:12:58.520 Carmen and my brother Jason lived. So they went to 0:12:58.600 --> 0:13:02.439 that apartment at Life four in the morning Friday night 0:13:02.480 --> 0:13:05.800 going into Saturday morning, and they were looking for me. 0:13:05.960 --> 0:13:09.760 You have police officers looking for me, and they tried 0:13:09.880 --> 0:13:13.280 to even grab up my little brother. Now, at the time, 0:13:13.320 --> 0:13:15.800 I was twenty one years old, so my little brother 0:13:15.840 --> 0:13:18.040 being five years younger than me, it's sixteen years old. 0:13:19.080 --> 0:13:22.160 The description was given of two male blacks from twenty 0:13:22.200 --> 0:13:24.160 five to thirty years old. Why are you trying to 0:13:24.160 --> 0:13:27.120 grab up this child? Clearly he looks like a child. 0:13:27.200 --> 0:13:30.160 Clearly he doesn't look like me either, and neither one 0:13:30.200 --> 0:13:34.120 of us appear to be two black men, right, but 0:13:34.360 --> 0:13:37.360 they're trying to grab him, thinking that he's me for 0:13:37.440 --> 0:13:40.319 whatever odd reason. And then Carmen just makes a big 0:13:40.360 --> 0:13:42.800 stink and says, do you understand that this is the 0:13:42.840 --> 0:13:46.960 house of an officer who died within the last ten months. 0:13:47.320 --> 0:13:49.720 Do you understand what you're doing. You're violating the children 0:13:49.760 --> 0:13:53.480 of somebody who served this country just like you. And 0:13:53.760 --> 0:13:55.840 that's when they were like, they eased up a little bit. 0:13:55.880 --> 0:13:58.400 They didn't have a warrant for arrest, so they gave 0:13:58.440 --> 0:14:00.440 her a card and said, listen, and you get in 0:14:00.480 --> 0:14:02.640 touch with mister Velaskis. Please have him get in touch 0:14:02.679 --> 0:14:05.000 with us. We're trying to help him. I was living 0:14:05.000 --> 0:14:07.160 in the Bronx with Vanessa and I get this call 0:14:07.200 --> 0:14:10.120 from Carmen and it's a startling call because she's like, listen, 0:14:10.160 --> 0:14:11.920 you know the cops are looking for you. They're saying 0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:14.480 something about you shot a police officer and that you 0:14:14.559 --> 0:14:17.120 need to call them. They're making it seem very serious. 0:14:17.200 --> 0:14:20.840 They came in here deep and I'm like, listen, Carmen, 0:14:20.880 --> 0:14:22.920 what's going on? What are you talking about? I have 0:14:23.000 --> 0:14:26.840 no idea what you're talking about. Slow down, And she's like, yo, listen. 0:14:26.880 --> 0:14:29.680 All I know here's a number they want you to call. 0:14:29.920 --> 0:14:32.200 I'm like, what precinct did they come from? You know, 0:14:32.240 --> 0:14:35.640 where's this coming from. Listen, here's the name. His name 0:14:35.680 --> 0:14:38.360 is Joseph Latrenta. Here's his phone number. They told me 0:14:38.400 --> 0:14:40.480 the precinct. At the time, it was a twenty eighth precint. 0:14:40.760 --> 0:14:42.200 I don't think I even registered. 0:14:42.240 --> 0:14:43.800 That was this four in the morning. 0:14:44.520 --> 0:14:47.120 She called me about nine in the morning. She waited 0:14:47.200 --> 0:14:49.560 until a decent time I guess to call me. At 0:14:49.560 --> 0:14:52.080 that point, I started to kind of like panic, and 0:14:52.160 --> 0:14:55.160 I was frantic. And I have two children. One is 0:14:55.520 --> 0:14:58.800 a child that's only a few weeks old. I have 0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:02.400 Vanessa there. Vanessa realized from the phone call that something 0:15:02.440 --> 0:15:05.640 serious is going on. But she's like, what's going on? 0:15:05.720 --> 0:15:07.680 And I'm like, yo, just wait a minute. I gotta 0:15:07.720 --> 0:15:11.080 process this, Like I really don't even know what's going on, Like, 0:15:11.160 --> 0:15:12.920 let me call my mother. So I called my mother 0:15:12.920 --> 0:15:15.320 and I'm like, yo, ma, you know they're saying the 0:15:15.320 --> 0:15:17.560 police are looking for me. She started getting hysterical on 0:15:17.680 --> 0:15:20.000 phone what happened? And I'm like, listen, I don't know 0:15:20.040 --> 0:15:22.600 what happened. I don't know what happened. This is what 0:15:22.640 --> 0:15:24.200 I know, I know the police are looking for me. 0:15:24.520 --> 0:15:26.280 I know it's the weekend. I know it's not a 0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:29.320 good time to get into contact with the police because 0:15:29.360 --> 0:15:33.360 I can't see a judge or anybody else until maybe 0:15:33.400 --> 0:15:35.200 one day if they come for me. They're saying this 0:15:35.280 --> 0:15:37.240 is serious. It's saying I shot a cop. I have 0:15:37.320 --> 0:15:39.960 no idea what this is about, but I'm scared and 0:15:40.000 --> 0:15:41.640 I need your help. What are we going to do? 0:15:42.080 --> 0:15:44.320 So she's like, stay there, I'm coming. My mother lives 0:15:44.400 --> 0:15:47.640 upstate at the time, and she came and picked me up, 0:15:47.680 --> 0:15:49.320 and she took me to the church that we used 0:15:49.320 --> 0:15:51.600 to attend together regularly on the weekend. It's called Love 0:15:51.640 --> 0:15:54.560 Gospel Assembly. We went to the church and there were 0:15:54.600 --> 0:15:57.640 a few people there and we started to tell what 0:15:57.680 --> 0:16:00.280 was going on, but everything was so limited, like didn't 0:16:00.320 --> 0:16:02.480 have any real knowledge. And they're saying, listen, the first 0:16:02.480 --> 0:16:04.640 thing you got to do is get an attorney and 0:16:04.720 --> 0:16:09.400 contact the precinct. So we try to figure out, you know, 0:16:09.440 --> 0:16:11.840 who would be a good lawyer. So I try to 0:16:11.840 --> 0:16:13.520 speak to a couple of my friends that I know 0:16:13.600 --> 0:16:15.240 have been involved in the system. Do you know any 0:16:15.240 --> 0:16:17.760 good lawyers? They tell me your name, his name, is 0:16:17.760 --> 0:16:20.320 Franklin Gould may rest in peace. At this point, I've 0:16:20.400 --> 0:16:23.680 learned that he has passed away recently, so I'm trying 0:16:23.680 --> 0:16:25.000 to get in touch with Franklin Gould. 0:16:25.160 --> 0:16:26.240 Bad part about this. 0:16:26.160 --> 0:16:28.200 Again, it's the weekend. How do you get in touch 0:16:28.200 --> 0:16:31.680 with a lawyer over the weekend? Right? And we're waiting 0:16:31.720 --> 0:16:35.240 for frank Gould to get back to us, and in 0:16:35.280 --> 0:16:37.840 that time, the range of emotions that we went through 0:16:37.880 --> 0:16:41.680 as a family picture us being in a car driving 0:16:41.720 --> 0:16:47.560 around aimlessly. It's my mother, me, Vanessa, JJ, which is 0:16:48.120 --> 0:16:51.080 my son, right, I don't want to confuse nobody and Jacob, 0:16:51.440 --> 0:16:55.800 and JJ is three years old at the time. Jacob 0:16:56.200 --> 0:16:58.680 is a few weeks He was born December twentieth, and 0:16:58.880 --> 0:17:02.880 this is Jane where he maybe thirtieth, so he's a 0:17:02.880 --> 0:17:05.720 little bit more than a month. And we're driving around 0:17:05.760 --> 0:17:08.600 aimlessly and aimlessly, and every time I see a police 0:17:08.640 --> 0:17:11.320 car it's like I get this little chill and I 0:17:11.320 --> 0:17:14.399 don't know what's going to happen here. Eventually we get 0:17:14.480 --> 0:17:17.119 in touch with this lawyer. We were outside of a 0:17:17.160 --> 0:17:20.639 restaurant and I remember I spoke to him briefly. I 0:17:20.640 --> 0:17:22.680 didn't have any information for him. I didn't know what 0:17:22.720 --> 0:17:24.520 to tell him. He's asking me for information, like I'm 0:17:24.560 --> 0:17:27.119 supposed to know certain things. I don't know nothing. 0:17:27.480 --> 0:17:29.320 All you know is that the cops are looking for. 0:17:31.480 --> 0:17:33.920 Well, no, I didn't even know there was a murder 0:17:33.960 --> 0:17:36.280 at the time. At that point, all I was told 0:17:36.400 --> 0:17:38.760 was that a cop was shot. But I just want 0:17:38.800 --> 0:17:40.639 to address this and get it over with because the 0:17:40.680 --> 0:17:43.920 longer I'm out here, the more my life is in jeopardy. 0:17:44.040 --> 0:17:46.280 And he wants you to give him details, which you would. 0:17:46.119 --> 0:17:48.080 Have to have them. I'm trying to tell him, I'm 0:17:48.119 --> 0:17:50.840 hiring you so you can get the details, right, That's 0:17:50.880 --> 0:17:53.560 just why I'm calling you. So he said that he 0:17:53.600 --> 0:17:57.640 had contacted the precinct but that they weren't giving any information. 0:17:57.720 --> 0:18:00.800 They just wanted me to turn myself in. But I 0:18:00.880 --> 0:18:04.040 left him on the phone my mother, and when my 0:18:04.119 --> 0:18:08.240 mother came back, I was so upset. I was scared, 0:18:08.280 --> 0:18:10.720 but I was so upset that I decided there's no 0:18:10.800 --> 0:18:13.359 way I want to deal with this guy. Because this 0:18:13.520 --> 0:18:15.360 lawyer told my mother that if we were to get 0:18:15.359 --> 0:18:18.720 pulled over by police, that I should put my head 0:18:18.800 --> 0:18:20.600 down in the ground and that my mother should throw 0:18:20.640 --> 0:18:23.440 her body over me to make sure that nothing happens 0:18:23.480 --> 0:18:26.760 to me, because I could get shot and I didn't 0:18:26.920 --> 0:18:29.080 like that. You know, if anything, he should have said 0:18:29.080 --> 0:18:30.800 that to me while I was on the phone. You 0:18:30.800 --> 0:18:33.760 don't see that to my mother had a frantic you know. 0:18:33.880 --> 0:18:36.119 That's a strange thing for a lawyer to say. I mean, 0:18:36.160 --> 0:18:39.159 I understand he was in a certain way trying to 0:18:39.640 --> 0:18:45.720 prevent it. Looking that's a little bit hysterical. Yeah, and yeah, 0:18:45.760 --> 0:18:47.880 and you're absolutely right. I mean he should have addressed 0:18:47.920 --> 0:18:51.280 that directly with you, right, So you ended up not engaging. 0:18:51.480 --> 0:18:53.639 I didn't engage with him. We ended up dealing with 0:18:53.840 --> 0:18:56.160 an attorney. I believe his name is Goldstein. I don't 0:18:56.160 --> 0:18:59.080 know his first name. And he told us to go 0:18:59.119 --> 0:19:01.760 to a hotel and we got a hotel. We called 0:19:01.840 --> 0:19:05.000 him from the hotel, gave me the address, and everything 0:19:05.280 --> 0:19:07.840 is crazy. At this point, Vanessa and my mother go 0:19:07.840 --> 0:19:09.960 get the hotel room. I'm sneaking in through the back. 0:19:10.000 --> 0:19:12.760 I'm afraid, and I'm staying in the hotel room. I'm 0:19:12.800 --> 0:19:15.000 waiting for this guy. So this the lawyer comes. He 0:19:15.200 --> 0:19:17.040 comes to the hotel and he meets me and he's like, 0:19:17.040 --> 0:19:19.160 all right, how you're doing this is what's going to happen. 0:19:19.240 --> 0:19:21.719 I contacted the precinct. I told him that I'm arranging 0:19:21.720 --> 0:19:24.600 to turn you in on Monday, right because it was 0:19:24.640 --> 0:19:26.600 Saturday still, so he says, I'm going to turn you 0:19:26.640 --> 0:19:28.400 in on Monday. Until then, I want you to stay 0:19:28.400 --> 0:19:29.920 in this hotel room. I do not want you to 0:19:30.000 --> 0:19:32.280 leave this hotel room. I want you to shave your face. 0:19:32.280 --> 0:19:34.320 I want you to be clean shaving. We're going to 0:19:34.400 --> 0:19:36.840 walk into that precinct early in the morning on Monday, 0:19:36.960 --> 0:19:39.280 and we're going to deal with this situation. I want 0:19:39.320 --> 0:19:41.800 a thousand dollars right now. I want one thousand dollars 0:19:41.840 --> 0:19:44.320 the day that you turn yourself in on Monday, and 0:19:44.359 --> 0:19:47.520 then you'll be locked up and Friday you'll be going 0:19:47.560 --> 0:19:49.680