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Speaker 1: I'm Laurie Gottlieb. I'm the author of Maybe You Should

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Speaker 1: Talk to Someone, and I write the Dear Therapist advice

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Speaker 1: column for the Atlantic.

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Speaker 2: And I'm Guy Wench. I'm the author of Emotional First Aid,

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Speaker 2: and I write the Dear Guy advice column for Ted.

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Speaker 2: And this is Dear Therapists.

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Speaker 1: Each week we invite you into a real session where

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Speaker 1: we help people confront their biggest problems and then give

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Speaker 1: them actionable advice and hear about the changes they've made

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Speaker 1: in their lives.

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Speaker 2: So sit back and welcome to today's session. This week,

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Speaker 2: we're in session with Jordan, who wants to understand how

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Speaker 2: seeing his parents dysfunctional relationship as a child might have

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Speaker 2: contributed to his own marriage ending after only two years.

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Speaker 3: There were red flags that I ignore. Here's this beautiful

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Speaker 3: woman that I get along with extremely well, and we

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Speaker 3: just seem perfect for each other, and we moved in

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Speaker 3: with each other, and it was within a couple months

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Speaker 3: I started to realize, second, this just doesn't seem normal.

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Speaker 1: First a quick note, Dear Therapist is for informational purposes only.

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Speaker 1: It does not constitute medical or psychological advice and is

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Speaker 1: not a substitute for professional healthcare advice, diagnosis, or treatment.

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Speaker 1: By submitting a letter, you are agreeing to let iHeartMedia

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Speaker 1: use it in part orn full, and we may edit

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Speaker 1: it for length and clarity. In the sessions you'll hear,

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Speaker 1: all names have been changed for the privacy of our guests.

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Speaker 2: Hey Lourie, Hey guy. So who have we invited to

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Speaker 2: speak with us today?

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Speaker 1: So today we have someone who is trying to figure

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Speaker 1: out why his marriage failed, and it goes like this,

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Speaker 1: Dear therapists. I came across your response to a letter

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Speaker 1: regarding someone who became a parentified child, and it completely

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Speaker 1: resonated with me. I am at the beginning stages of

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Speaker 1: understanding what went wrong with my marriage and the root

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Speaker 1: causes of it failing. My partner has experienced her own trauma,

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Speaker 1: but I'm now starting to look in the mirror and

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Speaker 1: would like to understand what my parents toxic, resentful and

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Speaker 1: use of relationship has done to myself and my brothers.

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Speaker 1: I hope you can help, Jordan.

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Speaker 2: I'm always glad to hear that people are curious about

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Speaker 2: what's going on in their relationships and what's the legacy

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Speaker 2: of their childhood that they're carrying with them and Jordan

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Speaker 2: is clearly curious. It's one of those better late than

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Speaker 2: ever situations because the marriage is now over, but I

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Speaker 2: hope we'll be able to help him take some lessons

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Speaker 2: into his next relationship.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think when marriages don't work, the tendency can be

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Speaker 1: to blame the other person. And I like here he's saying, yeah,

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Speaker 1: my partner had some issues, but I really want to

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Speaker 1: look at my issues and figure out my role in this.

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Speaker 1: So let's go talk to him and see what we

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Speaker 1: can help him with. You're listening to Dear Therapists for

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Speaker 1: my Heart Radio. We'll be back after a short break.

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Speaker 1: I'm Lori Gottlieb, and.

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Speaker 2: I'm Guy Wench and this Deatherapists. Hi Jordan, Hi Louri,

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Speaker 2: welcome to the show.

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Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me you guys, I

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Speaker 3: appreciate it.

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Speaker 2: You're very welcome. Julden, we wanted to hear a little

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Speaker 2: bit about your marriage, how you met, how it went,

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Speaker 2: what went wrong, so we can get a sense of

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Speaker 2: what happened here.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, my ex wife and I met actually on zoom

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Speaker 3: because we both work for a school, me being a teacher,

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Speaker 3: her being a teaching assistant for a different class. And

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Speaker 3: we met over COVID. We just started talking and we

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Speaker 3: got close very very fast. We got married for religious

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Speaker 3: reasons so she and her daughter could move in with me,

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Speaker 3: So we kind of expedited things. I could go as

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Speaker 3: far as saying it it was rushed in some regards,

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Speaker 3: but that is how we met and grew close to

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Speaker 3: each other.

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Speaker 1: And can I ask, just for context, how old are

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Speaker 1: both of you and how old is her daughter?

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Speaker 3: I am thirty three, she is thirty one, and her

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Speaker 3: daughter is five.

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Speaker 1: So this was a relatively short marriage, and I'm wondering

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Speaker 1: at what point things started to not seem as great

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Speaker 1: as they had been at the beginning.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, Laurie, looking back on things, there were

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Speaker 3: red flags that I I ignored because not to give you

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Speaker 3: a full full backstory if I can really quick, but

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Speaker 3: leading up to meeting her, I had lost one hundred

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Speaker 3: and forty five pounds and I was sky high as

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Speaker 3: far as my confidence and just ability to approach her.

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Speaker 3: So I think she got the confidence from me, and

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Speaker 3: it was, you know, attractive to her and everything like that.

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Speaker 3: But once we started to get to know each other

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Speaker 3: even more, some of the deeper, deeper seated family things

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Speaker 3: with her started to come out, and I was blind

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Speaker 3: to it because I'm like, here's this beautiful woman that

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Speaker 3: I get along with extremely well, and we just seem

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Speaker 3: perfect for each other. And we moved in with each other,

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Speaker 3: and it was within a couple months I started to realiz,

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Speaker 3: wait a second, this just doesn't seem normal.

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Speaker 1: What were some of the red flags that you noticed

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Speaker 1: before she moved in.

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Speaker 3: One of the first things she told me is that

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Speaker 3: she said it in a joking way. She said out

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Speaker 3: daddy issues. So along with saying that, she would talk

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Speaker 3: about men quite a bit and get pretty specific about it.

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Speaker 3: And she told me, this is three weeks into talking,

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Speaker 3: that I was the first man that she's only speaking

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Speaker 3: with me that she in the past had spoken to

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Speaker 3: four or five six men at a time. She was

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Speaker 3: just getting through her previous divorce, So that was a

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Speaker 3: big red flag that she wasn't telling me too many

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Speaker 3: specifics about why she got her first divorce to begin with.

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Speaker 3: And she would speak about men and sexual encounters with

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Speaker 3: men quite frequently. Even someone that we used to work with,

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Speaker 3: this man who didn't know anything about me. He kept

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Speaker 3: messaging her and then she would say, I don't want

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Speaker 3: to get fired if I tell him to stop talking

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Speaker 3: to me. I said, well, if you're not welcoming those messages,

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Speaker 3: you can tell him that. And she didn't for a while,

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Speaker 3: and that always felt a little uneasy for me too.

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Speaker 3: It's you could put a stop to that if you

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Speaker 3: want to.

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Speaker 2: You know, Jordan, you're saying that she will tell you

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Speaker 2: about sexual encounters with other men. There's a coworker who's

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Speaker 2: texting her repeatedly and she doesn't want to tell them

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Speaker 2: to stop. How did you feel about her telling you

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Speaker 2: these stories about sexual encounters? Did it make you uncomfortable?

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Speaker 2: And did you let her know if it did?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it made me very uncomfortable, and I did tell her,

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Speaker 3: And honestly, she played it off as disclosing all this

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Speaker 3: information to me as a good thing, like I'm open

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Speaker 3: to telling you all these things. I'm open to sharing

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Speaker 3: all these things with you, like, oh, I should feel

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Speaker 3: good about it. And I told her I would like

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Speaker 3: you to put a stop to that. And she always

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Speaker 3: had a way of still making me feel okay about

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Speaker 3: it at the beginning, until things just started to kind

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Speaker 3: of spiral downward.

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Speaker 1: How did she make you feel okay about it? Because

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Speaker 1: you chose to move in together. So all this was

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Speaker 1: going on, you felt uncomfortable. She wasn't really respecting your

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Speaker 1: request to monitor some of these things that maybe were

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Speaker 1: not appropriate to share with you, and you decided to

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Speaker 1: move in together. What was happening that made you feel like, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: that's okay. I don't really have to pay too much

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Speaker 1: attention to these things that make me uncomfortable.

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Speaker 3: It was interesting. She would almost sprague about you know,

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Speaker 3: these men messaging her, and then she would show me like, see,

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Speaker 3: I blocked him right away, and she said, I never

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Speaker 3: have done this before anytime I've ever spoken to a man.

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Speaker 3: I'm always speaking to another man, even in her previous marriage.

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Speaker 3: That's another red flag is that she confessed to me

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Speaker 3: that she cheated on her ex husband several times.

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Speaker 1: What I'm asking is, given all of the red flags,

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Speaker 1: what made you feel comfortable enough to move in with her?

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Speaker 3: I guess as time went on, we went a few

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Speaker 3: months of not having any incidents like that. I want companionship,

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Speaker 3: I want love. I showed her and her daughter tremendous

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Speaker 3: love and care and support, and I think it was

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Speaker 3: a classic case of just ignoring some of those things

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Speaker 3: and just wanting it, almost trying to force it and

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Speaker 3: manifest that companionship and partnership that I've always wanted.

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Speaker 1: Jordan, you said that right before this you had lost

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Speaker 1: one hundred and forty pounds. What was your romantic life

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Speaker 1: like before you met your ex wife and was it

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Speaker 1: affected by your weight?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so this is much deeper rooted. I clearly have

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Speaker 3: an unhealthy relationship with food. I was bigger in my

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Speaker 3: whole life in two thousand and nine to twenty eleven.

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Speaker 3: I lost one hundred and fifty five pounds then, and

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Speaker 3: I moved to Saint Louis to teach in public schools.

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Speaker 3: Down there. I was just totally engulfed in my work,

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Speaker 3: and I gained it all back and more. When I

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Speaker 3: first lost all that weight, I was dating quite a

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Speaker 3: bit and a couple serious relationships back then. I was

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Speaker 3: still looking for that partner, but emotionally just wasn't mature

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Speaker 3: enough in my early twenties, and that depression that I

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Speaker 3: fell into gaining the weight back, and my romantic life

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Speaker 3: was non existent until I lost the weight again.

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Speaker 2: Jorldren, your romantic life was not existent because you were

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Speaker 2: making efforts to try and meet women, but not being successful,

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Speaker 2: or because you withdrew for making those efforts.

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Speaker 3: Withdrew, I gained all the weight back, and I just

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Speaker 3: my confidence was at an all time low and I

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Speaker 3: didn't feel worthy. I didn't feel like I was myself.

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Speaker 2: And how long did that period last of feeling unworthy?

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Speaker 3: Six seven years, so.

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Speaker 2: That's a long time. Did you think to maybe try

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Speaker 2: and date regardless, not have to wait to lose the weight,

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Speaker 2: but bring yourself into the data world and see what happens,

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Speaker 2: or you didn't even want to take that risk.

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Speaker 3: It's not even that I didn't want to take that risk,

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Speaker 3: is that I just knew that I wasn't going to

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Speaker 3: find the right partner. In the state that I was in,

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Speaker 3: I felt like I was a prisoner in my own body,

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Speaker 3: you know, because my whole childhood I was always bigger,

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Speaker 3: so to get used to that, and there were coping

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Speaker 3: things that I would deal with by being funny. Growing up,

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Speaker 3: I was the bigger guy, so I was being funny.

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Speaker 3: And then when I lost the weight and I got

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Speaker 3: down to a very healthy weight, I got a tension

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Speaker 3: that I had never gotten before. There was no effort

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Speaker 3: on my part because I wasn't myself. I didn't feel

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Speaker 3: like myself.

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Speaker 1: You mentioned depression, and you said you felt like you

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Speaker 1: were a prisoner in your own body, But what about

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Speaker 1: a prisoner in your own mind? What was going on there?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? I was a prisoner in my own body and

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Speaker 3: my own mind. I never acknowledged the fact that I

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Speaker 3: was depressed. I gained two hundred pounds in that time period.

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Speaker 3: I can only chalk that up to depression.

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Speaker 1: The time. You didn't make the connection between the eating

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Speaker 1: behavior and the mood. How you were sort of self

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Speaker 1: medicating with food.

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Speaker 3: No, no, I didn't.

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Speaker 1: So what made you start against something must have affected

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Speaker 1: your mood. Do you remember what it was?

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Speaker 3: I was dating someone and we had broken up after

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Speaker 3: almost a year, so I'm not sure if that's pinpointed

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Speaker 3: it or if it was partly that I was overworking myself.

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Speaker 3: I felt a responsibility to have a successful career and

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Speaker 3: be seen as successful amongst my brothers and in my family.

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Speaker 2: When did you start to realize that maybe there was

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Speaker 2: depression going on, that maybe the link between the weight

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Speaker 2: gain and mood was a really strong one.

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Speaker 3: The program that I was teaching through down in Saint Louis,

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Speaker 3: there was a big group of us that started at

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Speaker 3: the same time, all around the same age. It was

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Speaker 3: almost like being in college again. It's a two year commitment,

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Speaker 3: So for those first two years you kind of had

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Speaker 3: a family down there, and then third year, more people

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Speaker 3: left to go to med school in law school. And

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Speaker 3: as the years went on, more and more people started

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Speaker 3: to leave, and I was alone, and I was coping

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Speaker 3: with how much I was working with eating, and it

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Speaker 3: just started to spiral downward even more. And I would

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Speaker 3: say probably my fourth or fifth year down there, I

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Speaker 3: just started to feel like there was just no way

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Speaker 3: that anybody could get themselves to lose one hundred and

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Speaker 3: fifty pounds twice in their life.

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Speaker 1: What was the motivation this last time to lose the weight?

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Speaker 1: Because you did lose it recently, right before you met

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Speaker 1: the person that you married.

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Speaker 3: You know, when you're ready, you know. In August of

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty, when I started, I was fed up with

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Speaker 3: the body I was in. I felt trapped. I couldn't

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Speaker 3: do things with my body or my mind that I

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Speaker 3: know that I'm capable of doing. And I was able

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Speaker 3: to lose one hundred and forty five pounds in eight months,

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Speaker 3: like incredibly fast, because that's how disciplined.

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Speaker 1: I can be Did your ex wife know about this

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Speaker 1: struggle that you've had with confidence and depression and how

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Speaker 1: the weight is played into that. In other words, she

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Speaker 1: was sharing a lot with you in the beginning. Were

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Speaker 1: you sharing some of your vulnerabilities with her?

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Speaker 3: Absolutely? That was one of the biggest attractions to hers,

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Speaker 3: is how hard I was working and how much weight

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Speaker 3: I had lost. You know, I'll never forget when I

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Speaker 3: first shared my before pictures with her and she was

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Speaker 3: just in awe of what I was able to do.

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Speaker 3: So she absolutely knew about both instances in two thousand

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Speaker 3: and nine and more recently in twenty twenty.

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Speaker 1: But did you actually share with her, I have struggled

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Speaker 1: in my life with depression.

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Speaker 3: I don't believe I said those exact words. I had

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Speaker 3: told her a lot about my years in Saint Louis,

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Speaker 3: and I know that she knew of my struggles down there.

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Speaker 1: Jordan, tell us a little bit about what happened once

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Speaker 1: your ex wife moved in with you.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So when she and her daughter moved in, like

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Speaker 3: I was on cloud nine. I have this instinct of

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Speaker 3: just to protect and care her ethnicity as Arab, and

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Speaker 3: she valued parts of it. Where the man is the provider,

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Speaker 3: the man is the protector, and everything like that, and

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Speaker 3: I took that role on one hundred percent. At the

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Speaker 3: same time, all the things that she had told me

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Speaker 3: about her exes in the past, they are disrespectful to me,

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Speaker 3: they don't help around the house. So I did the opposite.

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Speaker 3: I was always helping around the house. I was putting

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Speaker 3: forth a lot of effort to be that ideal husband

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Speaker 3: that she had always looked for.

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Speaker 2: Jordan, you said in your letter that you want to

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Speaker 2: look at what your contribution might have been to the marriage.

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Speaker 2: Ending mentioned some things that she did that you didn't love,

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Speaker 2: some history that she had that concerned you. Can you

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Speaker 2: tell us perhaps some of the things that you think

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Speaker 2: you personally might have contributed that might have been problematic

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Speaker 2: in the marriage.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there's no shortage of me self reflecting and thinking

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Speaker 3: about like that. That's just the way that I I'm like, wow,

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Speaker 3: like what went wrong? When did it go wrong? Where

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Speaker 3: did it go wrong? And I don't see the things

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Speaker 3: that I did as as necessarily things that should abruptly

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Speaker 3: end a marriage the way that it did.

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Speaker 1: How did it abruptly end?

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Speaker 3: It was kind of on course to end for a

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Speaker 3: few months. I will say this, she grew more and

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Speaker 3: more unstable.

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Speaker 1: What does that mean? She grew unstable? What did that

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Speaker 1: look like?

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Speaker 3: Right before she moved in, she shared something with me

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Speaker 3: that she hadn't shared before, and she said, in my

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Speaker 3: late teens and early twenties, I had seen several doctors,

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Speaker 3: and those doctors recommended that I take medication for my

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Speaker 3: anxiety and depression. And she was living at home with

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Speaker 3: her three brothers, her dad, and her stepmother, and in

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Speaker 3: that culture, he says, it's very frowned upon to seek

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Speaker 3: help through therapy, to seek medicaid. Her dad found her

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Speaker 3: medication and made a big deal out of it and

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Speaker 3: threw it away. Her anxiety and depression stems from being

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Speaker 3: the person who found her mother deceased at fourteen years old.

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Speaker 1: It was a suicide.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 3: That's interesting because when she worked up the curse to

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Speaker 3: see a doctor again in February or March of this year,

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Speaker 3: I was in the room with her, and she had

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Speaker 3: said things to the doctor that I'd never heard her

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Speaker 3: say before. One of them was that she realized that

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Speaker 3: her mom probably did commit suicide because of the abuse

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Speaker 3: by the hands of her father. For an entire year

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Speaker 3: leading up to her mother's death. She remembers almost having

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Speaker 3: to call police every week, and the one night that

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Speaker 3: her and her brother next youngest brother was ten, and

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Speaker 3: she described it to me as her being, you know,

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Speaker 3: in a zombie like state. But she had seen that

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Speaker 3: tons and tons of times before, and she had a

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Speaker 3: discussion with her brother should recall the police. Her dad

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Speaker 3: was not in the house at the time, and they

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Speaker 3: both agreed, no, no, she'll snap out of it. And

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Speaker 3: she didn't snap out of it.

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Speaker 2: So you're saying that you saw her mental health take

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Speaker 2: a bit of a slip at some point in the marriage.

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Speaker 2: You knew that she had been to psychiatrist, that she

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Speaker 2: had been on medication. Clearly there was a history of

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Speaker 2: trauma as well. When you saw that change in her

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Speaker 2: behavior or her mood, did you address it with her,

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Speaker 2: did you suggest she might need to see a psychiatrist again?

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Speaker 3: Yeah. I just kept seeing episodes happening more frequently, and

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Speaker 3: her taking her anger, frustration and stress out on myself

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Speaker 3: and her daughter, and it just became more and more

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Speaker 3: irrational and unreasonable. I did bring up to her like, hey,

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Speaker 3: maybe you should seek help, to see a therapist. That

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Speaker 3: she would get more angry at me whenever I would

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Speaker 3: bring it up.

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Speaker 2: She refused to do that.

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Speaker 3: Then, yeah, she told me October she said, I think

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Speaker 3: there's something wrong with me. I think I need to

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Speaker 3: see somebody. She said, you know, can you find a

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Speaker 3: therapist for me? And I said absolutely. I spent a

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Speaker 3: whole month trying to find the perfect therapist. I said, baby,

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Speaker 3: you want a woman, right, So I was researching for

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Speaker 3: women therapists where we lived. Well, I narrative searched down

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Speaker 3: to Muslim women therapists. She said, oh my god, that

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Speaker 3: would be perfect. Someone might know what I've been through.

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Speaker 3: I found someone finally, and she started in late October,

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Speaker 3: and oh my gosh. She never took it serious. She

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Speaker 3: had four sessions. She went to three of them. She

355
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Speaker 3: was lay for two of them. But she always told

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Speaker 3: me that she did feel a little bit better after

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Speaker 3: she spoke with them, but she had it made up

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Speaker 3: in her mind that it wasn't going to work.

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Speaker 1: Did she explore medication at all? Since my father had

360
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Speaker 1: taken away her medication when she was younger, but that

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Speaker 1: seemed important.

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Speaker 3: No, she didn't. Children.

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Speaker 2: You were telling us about the incident that goes the

364
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Speaker 2: end of the marriage. What was that incident?

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Speaker 3: She actually faked a positive COVID test to be able

366
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Speaker 3: to get out of work, and because her daughter was

367
00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:24,400
Speaker 3: also exposed to her COVID using air quotes, she had

368
00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:26,639
Speaker 3: to miss school as well. All three of us were

369
00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:28,920
Speaker 3: at the same school, me being a teacher, her being assistant,

370
00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:31,399
Speaker 3: and her daughter being in preschool. I stayed home with

371
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Speaker 3: her daughter and she was at school, and she was

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Speaker 3: texting me throughout the day. She said, I can't tell

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Speaker 3: you guys how much I miss the two of you.

374
00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:43,399
Speaker 3: I can't wait to get home. Our policies at that

375
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Speaker 3: school were if you are vaccinated, you only have to

376
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Speaker 3: be out for five days, and since her daughter isn't vaccinated,

377
00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:53,639
Speaker 3: she had to be out for ten days. So I

378
00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:56,159
Speaker 3: stayed on two days with her daughter. So this is

379
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Speaker 3: the second day now where she didn't call until you

380
00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:04,679
Speaker 3: almost an hour after school. So when she called, I answered,

381
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Speaker 3: and I said, what took you so long to get

382
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Speaker 3: out of school. The intention was not to question her

383
00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:13,760
Speaker 3: or anything like that. I was genuinely wondering, oh, was

384
00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:16,879
Speaker 3: there a meeting after school. She had a very strong

385
00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:21,520
Speaker 3: reaction to me, saying then she said with expletives, how insecure,

386
00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:26,679
Speaker 3: blah blah blah, and and I was just so taken

387
00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:32,720
Speaker 3: it back by what she was saying that I was

388
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Speaker 3: just why are you saying this? But she said, let

389
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Speaker 3: me talk to my daughter. Let me talk to my daughter.

390
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Speaker 3: And I said, I'll give her the phone. Just tell me,

391
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Speaker 3: why are you so upset right now? Give the phone

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Speaker 3: to my daughter. I said, I'll give her the phone

393
00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:48,760
Speaker 3: in two minutes. Just tell me what's wrong. She hung up.

394
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Speaker 3: She called the police, and she told the police officer

395
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Speaker 3: that I wasn't giving the phone to her daughter fast enough.

396
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Speaker 3: She called back again and I did give her the phone,

397
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Speaker 3: but it was already too late. So she arrived home.

398
00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:08,160
Speaker 3: I didn't know at that time that she had called

399
00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:12,359
Speaker 3: the police and she ran in. You could just tell

400
00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:15,359
Speaker 3: that there was this such a strong response. I know

401
00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:18,399
Speaker 3: that she's very protective of her daughter. She had shown

402
00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:22,920
Speaker 3: very very strong signs of protection over her daughter, and

403
00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:26,240
Speaker 3: she attributes that to the loss of her mother and

404
00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:30,920
Speaker 3: the irrational fear of her passing away and her daughter

405
00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:32,520
Speaker 3: growing up without a mother as well.

406
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Speaker 1: Can you tell us what happened when she arrived, She.

407
00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:39,440
Speaker 3: Ran in, she picked up her daughter, and it was

408
00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:43,280
Speaker 3: maybe within a minute or two, a police car arrived

409
00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:46,320
Speaker 3: in the back of the house and I looked at her.

410
00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:49,400
Speaker 3: I said, did you call the police? And she very

411
00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:53,200
Speaker 3: proudly said yes. I said, why did you call the police?

412
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:55,560
Speaker 3: She said, you weren't giving the phone to her fast enough.

413
00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:58,520
Speaker 3: I was speechless. I went outside to speak with the

414
00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:02,199
Speaker 3: police officer and I gave him a little bit of

415
00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:05,160
Speaker 3: a backstory that she had just started this new medication

416
00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:08,160
Speaker 3: about six weeks prior to that. After the officer spoke

417
00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:10,720
Speaker 3: with her as well, he brought me back out and

418
00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:15,080
Speaker 3: nothing came of it. He just said, hey, one of

419
00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:17,800
Speaker 3: you should leave the house to cool off. Well, she

420
00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:20,280
Speaker 3: moved out. Her and her daughter moved out.

421
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Speaker 1: You're talking so much about her trauma, and what I'm hearing, Jordan,

422
00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:29,400
Speaker 1: is your trauma. But you're not talking about your trauma.

423
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:33,480
Speaker 1: You're talking about her trauma. Every time we are trying

424
00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:37,840
Speaker 1: to understand more about you, you go into an explanation

425
00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:40,679
Speaker 1: for her trauma and what she experienced and why she

426
00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:44,119
Speaker 1: might have acted in the way that she acted. I

427
00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:47,480
Speaker 1: think that having the police called on you after all

428
00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:50,720
Speaker 1: of the other trauma that had happened in this relationship

429
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:56,639
Speaker 1: is extremely traumatic, especially because you had been trying to

430
00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:00,200
Speaker 1: help in the various ways that you knew. How wow,

431
00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:06,200
Speaker 1: and you get the police called on you. How did

432
00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:09,880
Speaker 1: you feel after the police officer left and how did

433
00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:11,760
Speaker 1: you communicate that to her?

434
00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:15,760
Speaker 3: I felt numb, like I had been for a while.

435
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:21,320
Speaker 3: And you know, you're right, Laurie, That's all that I

436
00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:26,919
Speaker 3: ever did was make excuses for because I just I

437
00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:30,280
Speaker 3: kept on wanting to figure it out. I connected with

438
00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:35,360
Speaker 3: her and felt her pain so much when she always

439
00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:39,720
Speaker 3: talked about her experiences in her childhood. I always had

440
00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:42,920
Speaker 3: this need to want to help her because I saw

441
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:48,800
Speaker 3: how much pain she was always in, and she directed

442
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:50,879
Speaker 3: that pain towards me and her daughter.

443
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:56,120
Speaker 2: You get so oriented towards trying to understand the why

444
00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:59,680
Speaker 2: of her that you do not look at what's going

445
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:03,119
Speaker 2: on with you. And it's similar with the feelings you

446
00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:06,040
Speaker 2: had about the weight loss and the weight gain. There

447
00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:10,400
Speaker 2: wasn't an exploration of what was going on inside you,

448
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:15,160
Speaker 2: inside your own heart, with your own feelings, and you're very,

449
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:18,159
Speaker 2: very oriented towards the other people's feelings, but at the

450
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:20,840
Speaker 2: expense of looking at your own.

451
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:26,119
Speaker 3: And you know, I've done a tremendous amount of thinking,

452
00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:30,800
Speaker 3: and I was able to understand where a lot of

453
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:36,240
Speaker 3: my trauma comes from. And one of her biggest things

454
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:40,119
Speaker 3: about me was that she said that I over communicate,

455
00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:42,119
Speaker 3: I talk too much. And I told her at the

456
00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:45,400
Speaker 3: beginning of our relationship that my childhood, with the way

457
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 3: that my parents were, is the exact reason why I

458
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:53,399
Speaker 3: want to talk about issues between her and I my

459
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:57,200
Speaker 3: entire life. Even to this day, my parents live under

460
00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 3: the same household and they do not speak to each other.

461
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:03,600
Speaker 1: Can you tell us a little bit more about what

462
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:07,159
Speaker 1: was going on for you growing up where you also

463
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:08,680
Speaker 1: had your own trauma.

464
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:13,640
Speaker 3: Yeah. There's four boys, and I'm the second to youngest.

465
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:17,480
Speaker 3: My youngest brother has Down syndrome, and he is the

466
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:23,199
Speaker 3: absolute the love of my life and he always will be.

467
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:27,280
Speaker 3: He's the center of all of our universe. He is

468
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 3: the reason that my mom and dad stayed together. I

469
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:34,560
Speaker 3: give a lot of credit to my parents for coming together,

470
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:39,640
Speaker 3: as ironic as those words are, because they were together

471
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:42,920
Speaker 3: in the house physically. I can count on one hand

472
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:46,159
Speaker 3: the amount of days that I've seen my mother and

473
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:50,199
Speaker 3: father speak to each other. The only positive memory that

474
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:54,160
Speaker 3: I have is I was nine years old and it

475
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:57,399
Speaker 3: was at a wedding, and I remember looking over and

476
00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:01,359
Speaker 3: seeing my mom and dad slow down together, and I

477
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:04,640
Speaker 3: remember that being so weird to.

478
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:08,679
Speaker 1: See You're tearing up as you described that. Can you

479
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:11,879
Speaker 1: talk a little bit more about what it felt like

480
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:13,240
Speaker 1: to see them together like that?

481
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:17,920
Speaker 3: Over the years, I've actually asked myself was that even real?

482
00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:20,880
Speaker 3: Or did I make that up in my head because

483
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 3: I wanted to see it so much, you know, So.

484
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:28,560
Speaker 1: The tears just now were feeling what that.

485
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:32,480
Speaker 3: I feel like I never saw the love that I

486
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:34,920
Speaker 3: should have seen between my mom and dad that I

487
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:38,359
Speaker 3: saw them in movies growing up. I saw them in

488
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 3: some of my friend's parents, and I just saw tension

489
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:43,200
Speaker 3: and hostility.

490
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 1: So the tears were sadness and loss.

491
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 3: Absolutely.

492
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:52,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, the tears were also for you as a nine

493
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:56,399
Speaker 2: year old boy who was aware that there's oldest tension

494
00:26:56,480 --> 00:27:03,240
Speaker 2: and distance between his parents and sees one grief tender moment,

495
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:06,679
Speaker 2: and the way you characterize it now was it was weird.

496
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:09,879
Speaker 2: But I think probably at nine it was weird on

497
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:12,800
Speaker 2: the one hand to see your parents embrace in that

498
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:15,679
Speaker 2: way when you're not used to seeing it, But there

499
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 2: must have been something that felt really good about it,

500
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:19,920
Speaker 2: maybe even.

501
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:22,920
Speaker 3: Hopeful without a doubt. You hit it on the head.

502
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 3: I feel like that moment, in a lot of ways,

503
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:29,800
Speaker 3: really transformed me into hopeless romantic. I. You know, my

504
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:32,440
Speaker 3: brothers would make fun of me, you know, in high

505
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 3: school because I you know, the girlfriend that I had

506
00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:37,680
Speaker 3: in high school, I was just so over the top

507
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:41,960
Speaker 3: with how romantic and how thoughtful I was towards her,

508
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:45,400
Speaker 3: because I feel like I was maybe trying to make

509
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 3: up for what I didn't see my entire life, and

510
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:50,040
Speaker 3: I still am to this day.

511
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 1: You characterized in your letter the relationship with your parents

512
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 1: as abusive and toxic. Can you tell us what you

513
00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 1: meant by that?

514
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 3: Individually? My mother and father are two of the best

515
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 3: people I've ever met in my life. How supportive they

516
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:09,600
Speaker 3: are of all of us boys, They're just tremendous. But

517
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 3: to each other, it's extremely toxic to this day.

518
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:18,800
Speaker 1: What did it look like between them when you say

519
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 1: between them it was toxic and abusive.

520
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:24,240
Speaker 3: I'll go back to early childhood. First. My two older

521
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:28,479
Speaker 3: brothers were superstar athletes, had a lot of success, and

522
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:30,600
Speaker 3: they spent a lot of time with my dad, and

523
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:32,600
Speaker 3: I feel like I went on a different path because

524
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:34,920
Speaker 3: when my two older brothers were spending time with my dad.

525
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 3: I spent time with my mom. So my brothers were wrestling,

526
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 3: playing football and my mom. You know, I took tap

527
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:47,480
Speaker 3: dancing class and was auditioning for commercials because I wanted

528
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:50,640
Speaker 3: to be in plays and movies. And it was just

529
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:54,080
Speaker 3: very different from my two older brothers, who I love

530
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:57,520
Speaker 3: and look up to so much. But I felt there

531
00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 3: was already that division between I mean, my two older

532
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 3: brothers with my dad, and then it was me with

533
00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:07,760
Speaker 3: my mom that has sprinkled into our adulthood. I've always

534
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:11,640
Speaker 3: been the middle ground with my family, and I've always

535
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:17,240
Speaker 3: been the one that has tried to help the situation,

536
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:20,960
Speaker 3: and it always seemed to not work because there's forty

537
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 3: five years of disdain and tension.

538
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 1: So you were trying to kind of save their marriage

539
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:29,520
Speaker 1: as the nine year old who saw them embrace, and

540
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:32,480
Speaker 1: that was the hope. But tell us what you actually

541
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:34,800
Speaker 1: saw between them. What you're describing as a lot of distance.

542
00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 1: They slept in separate rooms, they didn't really talk with

543
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:40,200
Speaker 1: each other. Is that what you're referring to or is

544
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:42,120
Speaker 1: there more how.

545
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:46,880
Speaker 3: They communicate to each other nonverbally. So my mom writes

546
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 3: notes to him. And I was home in May when

547
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 3: I was going through what I was going through, and

548
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:56,720
Speaker 3: I looked down at my dad's area or whatever, and

549
00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:58,560
Speaker 3: he has one of the notes sitting on the desk

550
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 3: and it just capital letters, and you could tell it

551
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:06,040
Speaker 3: was scribbled really hard, the word clown. And that made

552
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:09,440
Speaker 3: me so angry. It's like, why do you have to

553
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 3: be like that towards each other?

554
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:14,560
Speaker 1: You know, so you didn't see them screaming at each

555
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 1: other from a very young age. You saw them writing

556
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:18,720
Speaker 1: notes to each.

557
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 3: Other, total silent treatment.

558
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 1: You never saw your parents speak to each other, so

559
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:26,240
Speaker 1: what would happen at meal time? They would speak only

560
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:28,959
Speaker 1: to the kids, but you never saw them interact with

561
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:29,480
Speaker 1: each other.

562
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:33,600
Speaker 3: There was a lot of fighting through us. Jordan, tell

563
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:37,280
Speaker 3: your mom this, Jordan, tell your dad this. I want

564
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 3: to say, you know, I was saved by my age

565
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 3: because I feel like my two older brothers got the

566
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 3: worst part of the deal.

567
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 2: I'm hearing you describe your childhood, and again the focus

568
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:52,840
Speaker 2: is significantly on what was happening with your brother, with

569
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 2: your mom, with your dad, between the two of them,

570
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 2: and I'm not hearing enough about you, and I want

571
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:02,400
Speaker 2: to ask you you're describing you have two older brothers

572
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:06,480
Speaker 2: who are your dad's boys in a way because he

573
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 2: was involved in their athletics and training them, they hung

574
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 2: out with him. And then the two younger brothers, there's you,

575
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:15,560
Speaker 2: and there's your younger brother who has down syndrome, who

576
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:17,280
Speaker 2: are not hanging out with Dad, who are not the

577
00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 2: athletic ones. And I'm curious about how that felt for

578
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 2: you to be one of these four boys where this

579
00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:26,920
Speaker 2: seems to be some kind of division down the middle

580
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:31,320
Speaker 2: there that the two older boys are the athletic stars

581
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:34,520
Speaker 2: with Dad, and the two younger boys are staying home

582
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:37,840
Speaker 2: with mum. And I'd like to know whether you felt

583
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:39,920
Speaker 2: that division and how that felt for you.

584
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:45,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's spout on. That's exactly how I felt. I

585
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:48,600
Speaker 3: never felt validated by my dad. You know, we've gotten

586
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:53,160
Speaker 3: so much closer over the years, but that's because I

587
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:57,480
Speaker 3: over compensated with not being a successful athlete with being

588
00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:00,719
Speaker 3: a successful teacher and coach where I wanted to impress

589
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:03,160
Speaker 3: them that way. I didn't play football as early as

590
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 3: young as my two older brothers. I waited until middle school,

591
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 3: and I never came close as good as those two were.

592
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:13,480
Speaker 3: I mean, they were all state athletes. I even played

593
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 3: football in college for two years. I was half decent myself,

594
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 3: and I never felt like I got that approval from

595
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 3: my dad.

596
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:22,400
Speaker 1: Did you feel that you were getting validated from your

597
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:27,120
Speaker 1: mom for your talent in theater and the things that

598
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:28,280
Speaker 1: were interesting to you?

599
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 4: Oh?

600
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:32,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, because she's the one that got me

601
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:36,160
Speaker 3: into that stuff and I had an interest in it,

602
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 3: and she did everything she could to do that for me.

603
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 2: Sounds like something that was very meaningful and special to you,

604
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:46,719
Speaker 2: that you really enjoyed, that you've brought out perhaps the

605
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:50,040
Speaker 2: best of you, that you felt confident and and good at.

606
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:51,640
Speaker 2: So I'd like to hear us a little bit about

607
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:53,480
Speaker 2: how the career out of it went.

608
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 3: It was short lived in my elementary years, where I

609
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 3: auditioned for a couple of commercials and then had one

610
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:02,760
Speaker 3: of the auditions out was spotted by a talent agent

611
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:06,720
Speaker 3: to join this like acting modeling school, and it was

612
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:09,720
Speaker 3: very expensive to do that for a summer, and I

613
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:12,280
Speaker 3: do recall my dad not being in support of it

614
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 3: because of how much money it costs, and my mom

615
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:18,200
Speaker 3: went ahead with it and supporting me through that. And

616
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:21,479
Speaker 3: then after that I did plays in middle school and stuff.

617
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 3: But as I got older, I just felt more pressure

618
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 3: to play football, and I kind of let that dream

619
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 3: die because I just felt like with my last name

620
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 3: in the city that I grew up in, I got

621
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 3: to play football.

622
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:39,440
Speaker 2: It's unfortunate in the sense that it sounds like you

623
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:41,600
Speaker 2: had a lot of joy and that you had to

624
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 2: give up this joy in middle school because of the

625
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 2: pressures to play football and be yet another one of

626
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 2: the successful family football players, and that you gave up

627
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:54,240
Speaker 2: something that was very valuable for you to do that.

628
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel like maybe a little piece of my

629
00:33:57,280 --> 00:33:58,720
Speaker 3: childhood died.

630
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:02,680
Speaker 1: I want to go back to where things ended with

631
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:07,880
Speaker 1: your marriage. So that happened a few months ago. Are

632
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:11,080
Speaker 1: you both teaching at the same school, and what has

633
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:14,160
Speaker 1: happened for you since then? As you're trying to make

634
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 1: sense of your role in the marriage.

635
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:20,640
Speaker 3: She was not hired back, if you will, but she

636
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 3: has essentially ghosted me. She would always speak of how,

637
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:28,879
Speaker 3: almost boastfully, that she would talk to a man for

638
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:32,360
Speaker 3: two three months in ghost them, and she has essentially

639
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 3: done that to me.

640
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:38,000
Speaker 1: There's this saying we marry our unfinished business and for you,

641
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:42,840
Speaker 1: as the little boy who wanted to save his parents' marriage,

642
00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:45,720
Speaker 1: who wanted things to work out for them, who wanted

643
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:51,680
Speaker 1: them to have love and closeness and connection, and took

644
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 1: on this role of I need to save this. And

645
00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:59,600
Speaker 1: then you have, from her perspective, someone who told you

646
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:02,040
Speaker 1: quite clearly, I want someone to take care of me.

647
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 1: I didn't have that. I wasn't protected by my father,

648
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:11,440
Speaker 1: and my mother died by suicide because of my father's abuse,

649
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:14,000
Speaker 1: and we felt helpless, and he threw away my medication.

650
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:18,440
Speaker 1: I need, as she said early on to you, she

651
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 1: had daddy issues. I need someone to take care of me.

652
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:26,080
Speaker 1: So in a way you are a perfect dysfunctional match,

653
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:30,839
Speaker 1: because the puzzle pieces fit together again in not a

654
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:34,680
Speaker 1: healthy way. You want to save someone, she wants to

655
00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:38,560
Speaker 1: be saved. Those are your childhood wounds, and boom you

656
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 1: found each other, and oh that feels so delicious and

657
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:45,399
Speaker 1: good until you start to realize maybe this isn't going

658
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 1: to be the way to heal my childhood wounds. In fact,

659
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:52,160
Speaker 1: maybe this is going to throw salt on my childhood

660
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:58,359
Speaker 1: wounds and re traumatize me again. And I think that's

661
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:01,160
Speaker 1: the realization that you have when you wrote to us

662
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:03,920
Speaker 1: that I want to look in the mirror, you said,

663
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:09,759
Speaker 1: because I don't want to bring my needs as a

664
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:16,000
Speaker 1: child to the expectations of what my partner can or

665
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:18,799
Speaker 1: can't do for me. I want to come whole and

666
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:23,360
Speaker 1: as an adult, as someone who has these wounds but

667
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:27,640
Speaker 1: who can work through that. And so I wonder, have

668
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:31,080
Speaker 1: you started going to therapy? Have you tried talking to

669
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:37,080
Speaker 1: somebody about these unprocessed feelings from childhood that still live

670
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:39,759
Speaker 1: very very deeply inside of you.

671
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:43,680
Speaker 3: Yeah. I attempted a couple of years ago, both in

672
00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:48,160
Speaker 3: person one session and just didn't get good vibes, and

673
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:52,080
Speaker 3: then virtually with another a couple of years ago and

674
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:55,719
Speaker 3: didn't like that. But then more recently the spring I

675
00:36:55,800 --> 00:37:00,200
Speaker 3: did and went a handful of times and stopped going.

676
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:03,280
Speaker 1: Can I ask why you stopped, I honestly.

677
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 3: Don't know the answer to that. One of my brothers

678
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:07,319
Speaker 3: is living out of the country right now. I had

679
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:10,239
Speaker 3: the opportunity to just live with him, you know, for

680
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:13,759
Speaker 3: a while, and really kind of remove myself from the

681
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:16,120
Speaker 3: situation and work on myself. I felt like that was

682
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 3: a good opportunity.

683
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:21,160
Speaker 1: I have a theory, and my theory is this, when

684
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:24,239
Speaker 1: you're in therapy, the focus is on you, and it's

685
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:28,080
Speaker 1: on your feelings and it's on your experience. And most

686
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:31,839
Speaker 1: of what you've told us today has been about how

687
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:34,440
Speaker 1: other people feel. And many of the times that we

688
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:38,200
Speaker 1: try to bring it back to you, you took us

689
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:41,080
Speaker 1: somewhere else. And I think that's because it's hard for

690
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:45,239
Speaker 1: you to stay there, that you have this idea that

691
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 1: if you feel uncomfortable, if you feel the pain of

692
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:51,759
Speaker 1: that little boy, that it's going to be overwhelming. The

693
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:56,640
Speaker 1: way it truly was when you were younger, you couldn't

694
00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:59,480
Speaker 1: let yourself go there because it would be too painful.

695
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:02,440
Speaker 1: You didn't have the support that you didn't have anyone

696
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:04,840
Speaker 1: to go to. You didn't have anyone to comfort you

697
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:07,279
Speaker 1: or to help you make sense of what was going on,

698
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:10,359
Speaker 1: and how unsafe it feels when you're younger to see

699
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:13,800
Speaker 1: parents who can't communicate with each other, who are hostile

700
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:17,239
Speaker 1: toward each other, to see this division, and to see

701
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:20,720
Speaker 1: other families and say, I don't understand this. And also,

702
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:24,040
Speaker 1: you love your brother with down syndrome, your younger brother,

703
00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:27,120
Speaker 1: so much, but when there is a child in the

704
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:31,399
Speaker 1: family who has these challenges, it takes up a lot

705
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:35,080
Speaker 1: of emotional space in the family. So sometimes the other

706
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:38,200
Speaker 1: kids who seem just fine, they don't get a lot

707
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 1: of attention in that way because everybody's so focused and

708
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:44,920
Speaker 1: you're nodding, so I can see that was the experience that,

709
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:47,680
Speaker 1: of course your younger brother's going to get a lot

710
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:51,280
Speaker 1: of attention because he had more needs in some ways,

711
00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:54,200
Speaker 1: But that doesn't mean that the other three of you

712
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:57,000
Speaker 1: didn't have a lot of needs too that may not

713
00:38:57,120 --> 00:39:02,640
Speaker 1: have been as visible as your younger brother's needs. And

714
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:06,800
Speaker 1: so there's a lot of pain around that that felt

715
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:10,840
Speaker 1: unbearable as a child. But now you go to therapy

716
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:13,759
Speaker 1: and the focus is going to be on you, and

717
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:17,120
Speaker 1: maybe that feels a little much like, oh I don't

718
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 1: deserve or I can't handle what might come up. And

719
00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:26,359
Speaker 1: I want to suggest along with this theory that if

720
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:29,359
Speaker 1: you start to feel that in therapy, that you can

721
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:33,120
Speaker 1: say to the therapist, Wow, I'm feeling really overwhelmed right now,

722
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:36,560
Speaker 1: can we slow down? And so I want to ask

723
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:38,480
Speaker 1: you right now, what has it been like for you

724
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:44,960
Speaker 1: today talking with us, when we've sometimes interrupted you, when

725
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:47,640
Speaker 1: you've gone off to other places, when we've tried to

726
00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:50,960
Speaker 1: direct you back to yourself, when we've asked you to

727
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:53,759
Speaker 1: sit a little bit in some of your own feelings.

728
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:57,080
Speaker 1: How has that felt to you? What has that been like?

729
00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:00,600
Speaker 3: It's hard to describe. I don't I don't know.

730
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:04,240
Speaker 1: That's the numbness that I think you were describing before.

731
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:07,560
Speaker 1: Numbness isn't the absence of feelings. Numbness is a sense

732
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:10,120
Speaker 1: of being overwhelmed by too many feelings. And I think

733
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:12,400
Speaker 1: I can tell from your face and your body language

734
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:16,880
Speaker 1: that you're having so many feelings right now, and I

735
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:18,440
Speaker 1: just want you to be aware of that. It's not

736
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:22,839
Speaker 1: that you don't feel, it's that you feel a lot,

737
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:25,839
Speaker 1: and it's going to be really helpful for you to

738
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:28,040
Speaker 1: become acquainted with what you are feeling.

739
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:35,759
Speaker 2: You're right, Judren, that's important, and for multiple reasons. One

740
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:39,040
Speaker 2: of them is you wrote to us because you're interested

741
00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:44,240
Speaker 2: in having a better relationship next time. You describe yourself

742
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:47,840
Speaker 2: as a romantic and you are very much a romantic,

743
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:52,440
Speaker 2: but you have a very specific version of that in

744
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:56,480
Speaker 2: your head, and it's related to your childhood. In your childhood,

745
00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:59,719
Speaker 2: you had a brother with special needs. You had to

746
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:03,719
Speaker 2: pay parents with special needs as it were, because they

747
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:10,040
Speaker 2: had such a conflictual marriage, and you were very occupied

748
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:13,720
Speaker 2: with understanding what's going on with everyone around you, trying

749
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:17,239
Speaker 2: to help them as much as possible. And that is

750
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:22,280
Speaker 2: the romance that you sought out, the rescue the damsel

751
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 2: in distress who came out of this bad childhood, bad marriage,

752
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:30,160
Speaker 2: was in a difficult situation, had a daughter needed to

753
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:32,680
Speaker 2: get married right away. Turned out there were all these

754
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:36,759
Speaker 2: red flags, and you were in that role of I

755
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:39,480
Speaker 2: will rescue her, and that will be the most romantic

756
00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 2: thing of all, because if I can rescue her and

757
00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:47,239
Speaker 2: rescue her means somehow making her traumas go away or

758
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:50,279
Speaker 2: not impact her in the presence, so she can be

759
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:52,919
Speaker 2: more present with me and we can live this love

760
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:55,120
Speaker 2: story that I didn't see in my parents, but I

761
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:57,239
Speaker 2: know is out there because I've done enough theater to

762
00:41:57,280 --> 00:42:01,239
Speaker 2: know that love stories like that are out there. And

763
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:05,480
Speaker 2: that's what you gravitate toward. You feel much more comfortable

764
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:11,560
Speaker 2: rescuing than you do needing rescue, and you need rescue.

765
00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:16,120
Speaker 2: You wrote to us for that reason. You have all

766
00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:18,759
Speaker 2: these needs and feelings and history that you have a

767
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:22,839
Speaker 2: hard time getting in touch with. You get flooded and

768
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:24,640
Speaker 2: then you get numb, and you're going to have a

769
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:29,000
Speaker 2: very hard time setting limits and maintaining them, stating your needs,

770
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:31,440
Speaker 2: setting expectations, doing all the thing you would need to

771
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:34,480
Speaker 2: do in another relationship, and you are more likely to

772
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:37,680
Speaker 2: go for another rescue in which your needs and feelings

773
00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:41,160
Speaker 2: can be put aside in the service of others. But

774
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:45,879
Speaker 2: you were deprived of that attention in your childhood. It

775
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:49,799
Speaker 2: wasn't something that you didn't need. It's something you didn't

776
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:53,279
Speaker 2: get and you're going to prevent yourself from getting it

777
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:58,319
Speaker 2: now unless you can change that. And within your formulation

778
00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:02,520
Speaker 2: of a romantic there has to be one in which

779
00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:06,560
Speaker 2: that version of the romantic needs as well.

780
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:07,600
Speaker 4: Yeah.

781
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:11,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, that really resonates with me a lot. You're right.

782
00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:19,920
Speaker 3: It's always easier for me to, you know, to help

783
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:23,600
Speaker 3: someone like you said, the damsel and distress, that attraction

784
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:28,160
Speaker 3: to that, to wanting to make someone else's life better

785
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 3: and help someone else.

786
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:34,480
Speaker 1: And when you start to heal this, maybe your definition

787
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:37,640
Speaker 1: of romance won't be that anybody needs to get rescued.

788
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:41,640
Speaker 1: That you both have needs and wants and you can

789
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:47,239
Speaker 1: support each other, which is different from rescuing someone. So

790
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:52,359
Speaker 1: you want to be in a mutually supportive relationship and

791
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 1: that can become your new definition of romance.

792
00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:01,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what I want to find, somebody that I'll

793
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:05,439
Speaker 3: feel like they have my back and that they will

794
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:12,800
Speaker 3: support me as much as I'm willing to support them.

795
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:16,839
Speaker 1: So, Jordan, we have some advice for you, and we

796
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:20,320
Speaker 1: have five tasks that we'd like you to do this week,

797
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:22,600
Speaker 1: and that might sound like a lot, but they're all

798
00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:26,480
Speaker 1: very connected and interrelated. So I'm going to start with

799
00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:28,279
Speaker 1: the first one. And the first one has to do

800
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:31,839
Speaker 1: with your brothers, and it's that all of you grew

801
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:35,000
Speaker 1: up in the same household, but like many siblings, had

802
00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:38,640
Speaker 1: different experiences of growing up in the same household, and

803
00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:41,520
Speaker 1: nobody talked about it because in your household, your parents

804
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:43,600
Speaker 1: weren't even talking to each other, so you didn't have

805
00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:45,960
Speaker 1: a lot of modeling for how to talk about what

806
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:48,640
Speaker 1: was going on and the effect that this was having

807
00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:50,719
Speaker 1: on all of you. And it sounds like you and

808
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:54,600
Speaker 1: your brothers have become much closer over the last few years,

809
00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:56,680
Speaker 1: and one of your brothers even invited you to go

810
00:44:56,719 --> 00:45:00,920
Speaker 1: stay with him after the marriage split up. And so

811
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:03,400
Speaker 1: I think it's a good time right now to have

812
00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:06,880
Speaker 1: an opening for all of you to be able to

813
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:10,440
Speaker 1: communicate with each other differently. And you can say to

814
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:14,479
Speaker 1: your brothers, I really appreciate how supportive you've been as

815
00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:18,719
Speaker 1: I've gone through this divorce. And one of the things

816
00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:20,960
Speaker 1: that I'm realizing is that there might be a connection

817
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:24,080
Speaker 1: between how we grew up and the way that we

818
00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:27,120
Speaker 1: behave in our relationships. And I think it would be

819
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:30,200
Speaker 1: really helpful if we could talk with each other more

820
00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:32,920
Speaker 1: openly about what it was like to grow up the

821
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:36,600
Speaker 1: way that we did and really support each other around that.

822
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:39,320
Speaker 1: And I want to tell you a little bit about

823
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:41,000
Speaker 1: what it was like for me. Is that Okay, if

824
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:45,200
Speaker 1: I do that and just start there and see what

825
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:48,719
Speaker 1: happens when you open up to your brothers, and maybe

826
00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:51,640
Speaker 1: they'll open up to you too, so that there isn't

827
00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:55,000
Speaker 1: this silence around what it was like to grow up

828
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:59,520
Speaker 1: in this very aggressively silent household. Meaning there was all

829
00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:02,200
Speaker 1: of this Russian in notes and in body language, but

830
00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:05,040
Speaker 1: it was silent, which makes it all the more confusing.

831
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:07,960
Speaker 1: So that's the first task. We want you to start

832
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:09,560
Speaker 1: that conversation with your brothers.

833
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:13,279
Speaker 2: Here's the second task, Jordan. You said earlier that you

834
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:18,160
Speaker 2: have a problematic relationship with food, and it sounds like

835
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:22,200
Speaker 2: you use food to soothe your feelings, and one of

836
00:46:22,239 --> 00:46:24,560
Speaker 2: the things we'd like you to do this week is

837
00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:30,719
Speaker 2: to find a local overeater's anonymous group support group that

838
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:33,640
Speaker 2: you can join, because we think it would be really

839
00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:38,279
Speaker 2: useful for you to talk about two people who have

840
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:43,560
Speaker 2: a similar experience and who are very understanding that relationship

841
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:46,359
Speaker 2: with food and how it impacts you, and to find

842
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:52,720
Speaker 2: alternative coping mechanisms to deal with your feelings rather than eating.

843
00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:55,399
Speaker 2: Would also give you the support we think you need,

844
00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:57,520
Speaker 2: so we would like you to do that this week.

845
00:46:57,560 --> 00:46:59,480
Speaker 2: Some of these groups might be virtual, some might be

846
00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:01,800
Speaker 2: in person, and see what's going on in your area

847
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:02,720
Speaker 2: and find one.

848
00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:05,480
Speaker 1: The next thing we'd like you to do is we

849
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:08,359
Speaker 1: were really struck by how much research you put in

850
00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:13,000
Speaker 1: to finding the perfect therapist for your wife. At the

851
00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:16,880
Speaker 1: time you did all this research, she wanted a woman,

852
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:20,279
Speaker 1: she wanted someone who was Muslim, she wanted something very specific,

853
00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:24,239
Speaker 1: and you said you researched for weeks trying to find

854
00:47:24,239 --> 00:47:27,000
Speaker 1: the right therapist for her. We want you to do

855
00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:30,719
Speaker 1: that for yourself, but not for weeks this week. Maybe

856
00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:33,200
Speaker 1: it's the person you have already seen, or maybe you

857
00:47:33,239 --> 00:47:35,520
Speaker 1: want to look into seeing someone else, but we want

858
00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:38,359
Speaker 1: you to spend the time and the effort that you

859
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:41,520
Speaker 1: put into finding a therapist for someone else to finding

860
00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:44,640
Speaker 1: the right therapist for you and then make the appointment.

861
00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:47,440
Speaker 1: So here's the fourth task. You said that you've been

862
00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:51,040
Speaker 1: ghosted at this point and you really don't have any

863
00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:56,400
Speaker 1: way to process with her what happened in this marriage,

864
00:47:56,840 --> 00:47:59,160
Speaker 1: and so we want you to do some processing. You'll

865
00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:01,760
Speaker 1: do some through therapy, you'll do some through these other tasks.

866
00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:05,279
Speaker 1: We want you to do some tangible processing yourself. And

867
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:07,799
Speaker 1: sometimes when we write things down, we get a lot

868
00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:10,440
Speaker 1: of clarity. And what we'd like you to do here

869
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:14,920
Speaker 1: is write down three moments in the marriage where you

870
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:20,200
Speaker 1: worked so hard to help her, but you needed help

871
00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:24,080
Speaker 1: and you didn't help yourself. If you could do this over,

872
00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:29,160
Speaker 1: how would you in those three moments help yourself? Knowing

873
00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:31,359
Speaker 1: what you know now, we'd like you to be very

874
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:34,120
Speaker 1: specific about I would do this because I was so

875
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:36,759
Speaker 1: focused on her that I didn't think about the help

876
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:38,680
Speaker 1: that I needed in that moment. But here's what I

877
00:48:38,719 --> 00:48:41,400
Speaker 1: would do now to help myself. It might be I

878
00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:43,960
Speaker 1: would set this boundary, or I would go take a walk,

879
00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:46,399
Speaker 1: or I would take some breaths or I would talk

880
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:49,239
Speaker 1: to somebody about it, I would say this to her instead,

881
00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:53,360
Speaker 1: I would try less hard to regulate her feelings, and

882
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:56,279
Speaker 1: I would work harder to regulate mine. Could be any

883
00:48:56,320 --> 00:48:59,239
Speaker 1: of those or anything you come up with. And then

884
00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:02,080
Speaker 1: with that, we'd like you to write down why you're

885
00:49:02,120 --> 00:49:06,239
Speaker 1: relieved not to be in that situation anymore, and why

886
00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:10,239
Speaker 1: you're excited about using whatever it is that you would

887
00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:13,640
Speaker 1: be doing to help yourself in your next relationship so

888
00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:14,840
Speaker 1: that it's a healthier one.

889
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:20,240
Speaker 2: One last piece of advice, Jordan, we were really struck

890
00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:27,480
Speaker 2: by how bright you became, and I mean bright as

891
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:31,200
Speaker 2: in light coming from you when you spoke about acting

892
00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:35,080
Speaker 2: and performing. We think that's a big part of you,

893
00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:37,560
Speaker 2: that that's an essential part of your identity that has

894
00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:41,640
Speaker 2: not gotten any expression since perhaps middle school or whenever

895
00:49:41,640 --> 00:49:46,319
Speaker 2: that was that you stopped and transitioned to football. And

896
00:49:46,560 --> 00:49:50,040
Speaker 2: when something gives you joy in life, it has to

897
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:52,680
Speaker 2: be a thing that you can express on a regular

898
00:49:52,719 --> 00:49:55,320
Speaker 2: basis because it's a part of you. So we'd like

899
00:49:55,360 --> 00:49:58,560
Speaker 2: you to find some way to do that where you are.

900
00:49:58,680 --> 00:50:02,200
Speaker 2: It can be it can be a theater, it can

901
00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:05,719
Speaker 2: be a class, it can be anything. But we'd like

902
00:50:05,719 --> 00:50:07,840
Speaker 2: you to find something, even if it's an hour a

903
00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:10,520
Speaker 2: week that you can join. It will bring you around

904
00:50:10,680 --> 00:50:14,320
Speaker 2: people who you'll connect with for that reason, and you'd

905
00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:17,040
Speaker 2: like to see that back in your life. So, Jordan,

906
00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:18,759
Speaker 2: how does all that sound to you?

907
00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:21,160
Speaker 3: Know you said that five tests seems like a lot,

908
00:50:21,239 --> 00:50:23,800
Speaker 3: but those are all perfect for me to get started

909
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:25,520
Speaker 3: and get the ball rolling. You might think that I'm

910
00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:28,919
Speaker 3: most excited about the theater, the acting part, which I am,

911
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:34,120
Speaker 3: but I'm most excited to talk to my brothers about

912
00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:34,440
Speaker 3: all this.

913
00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:38,000
Speaker 1: Well, we look forward to hearing how your week goes

914
00:50:38,040 --> 00:50:40,720
Speaker 1: with these five tasks. We're very excited for you to

915
00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:41,239
Speaker 1: try them.

916
00:50:41,640 --> 00:50:42,439
Speaker 3: I'm excited too.

917
00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:44,560
Speaker 2: We look forward to hearing back from you.

918
00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:49,399
Speaker 3: Thank you so much, you guys.

919
00:50:53,680 --> 00:50:56,839
Speaker 2: This habit Jordan has, and a lot of people have,

920
00:50:57,200 --> 00:51:02,000
Speaker 2: of defaulting to the other person's fings and needs in

921
00:51:02,040 --> 00:51:05,280
Speaker 2: lieu of their own is a difficult habit to break.

922
00:51:06,120 --> 00:51:09,680
Speaker 2: So I hope he can work on it, because right

923
00:51:09,719 --> 00:51:12,880
Speaker 2: now it happens very automatically. We ask him about his feelings,

924
00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:15,400
Speaker 2: he goes to explain what's going on with the other person.

925
00:51:15,719 --> 00:51:18,319
Speaker 2: I think he understood the principle, which is great. It's

926
00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:22,400
Speaker 2: going to take mindfulness on his part to catch himself.

927
00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:25,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that pattern has even seeped into his definition

928
00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:29,680
Speaker 1: of romance, that for him, the romantic thing is I

929
00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:34,120
Speaker 1: will save somebody else. Because for him, love meant something

930
00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:39,480
Speaker 1: very specific. It was if I could help my parents reconnect,

931
00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:43,239
Speaker 1: that would be how I would show my love. And

932
00:51:43,280 --> 00:51:46,960
Speaker 1: so his idea of love is about taking care of

933
00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:50,120
Speaker 1: other people. But he doesn't understand that it needs to

934
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:54,560
Speaker 1: be reciprocal, that people need to support him just as

935
00:51:54,640 --> 00:51:57,800
Speaker 1: much as he supports them, and that it's not about

936
00:51:57,840 --> 00:52:01,439
Speaker 1: saving someone, it's about supporting someone. And I don't think

937
00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:04,320
Speaker 1: he knows the difference yet. He was trying to save

938
00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:07,239
Speaker 1: this person who had so much trauma that she had

939
00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:10,239
Speaker 1: not worked out and was bringing into the relationship in

940
00:52:10,320 --> 00:52:14,319
Speaker 1: all kinds of really destructive ways. So I hope that

941
00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:16,400
Speaker 1: these tasks will start to set him on a path

942
00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:19,640
Speaker 1: where he starts to recognize those differences.

943
00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:23,600
Speaker 2: And I think it would also help him to really

944
00:52:24,040 --> 00:52:28,440
Speaker 2: practice identifying his feelings and naming them, because right now,

945
00:52:28,680 --> 00:52:31,319
Speaker 2: he gets flooded, he gets numb, He really has a

946
00:52:31,360 --> 00:52:35,160
Speaker 2: hard time knowing what he's feeling. So I hope going

947
00:52:35,200 --> 00:52:37,399
Speaker 2: to the support group and I hope doing the other

948
00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:39,239
Speaker 2: things we ask him to do will help him to

949
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:43,400
Speaker 2: start differentiate and identify when he's having strong feelings, to

950
00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:47,719
Speaker 2: identify them, to talk about them, to get validation for them.

951
00:52:48,040 --> 00:52:50,560
Speaker 2: That would be really great for him if he could

952
00:52:50,560 --> 00:52:51,200
Speaker 2: do that as well.

953
00:52:51,840 --> 00:52:53,640
Speaker 1: And I love that he said of all the tasks

954
00:52:53,719 --> 00:52:56,080
Speaker 1: that we probably assumed that it was the theater one

955
00:52:56,120 --> 00:52:58,280
Speaker 1: that he would enjoy the most, but he was actually

956
00:52:58,320 --> 00:53:01,319
Speaker 1: most looking forward to talking to his brothers and that

957
00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:04,120
Speaker 1: gave me so much hope that he really wants to

958
00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:08,239
Speaker 1: start having these conversations and opening up. So I'm really

959
00:53:08,239 --> 00:53:14,720
Speaker 1: excited to see how this week goes for him.

960
00:53:14,880 --> 00:53:18,120
Speaker 2: You listening to dea Therapists. We'll be back after a.

961
00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:33,359
Speaker 1: Short break, So gad we heard back from Jordan, and

962
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:34,879
Speaker 1: let's hear how his week went.

963
00:53:36,120 --> 00:53:41,320
Speaker 4: The first task was to speak with my brothers.

964
00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:45,400
Speaker 5: This was the task I was most excited for, and unfortunately,

965
00:53:45,400 --> 00:53:47,359
Speaker 5: this is the task that I wasn't able to do,

966
00:53:47,560 --> 00:53:53,640
Speaker 5: mainly because I'm not with both of them right now,

967
00:53:55,040 --> 00:53:57,080
Speaker 5: and I would like to do this in person with them.

968
00:53:57,280 --> 00:53:59,239
Speaker 4: I'm telling myself that, but maybe.

969
00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:04,200
Speaker 5: I'm reluctant to have that very very important talk with them.

970
00:54:04,560 --> 00:54:09,640
Speaker 5: The second task being to find an overeators anonymous meeting.

971
00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:11,640
Speaker 4: That was a success. I was able to.

972
00:54:11,560 --> 00:54:16,360
Speaker 5: Find there are several meetings that are offered in my city.

973
00:54:16,520 --> 00:54:20,920
Speaker 5: They have phone in meetings and I still may may

974
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:23,640
Speaker 5: do that, but there are several meetings throughout the week

975
00:54:23,960 --> 00:54:27,279
Speaker 5: in the city that I live in, and that'll be very,

976
00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:31,239
Speaker 5: very helpful. The third task was to put in that

977
00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:34,799
Speaker 5: amount of time to find myself a therapist, that same

978
00:54:34,800 --> 00:54:36,720
Speaker 5: amount of time that I put in for somebody else.

979
00:54:36,760 --> 00:54:40,640
Speaker 5: I did decide to go back to the therapist.

980
00:54:40,200 --> 00:54:42,640
Speaker 4: That I have gone to in the past.

981
00:54:42,840 --> 00:54:45,960
Speaker 5: I feel like just because I did that, you know,

982
00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:50,759
Speaker 5: onboarding with them and definitely gave that therapist all the

983
00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:54,840
Speaker 5: information about me, I want to give her a shot again.

984
00:54:55,040 --> 00:55:00,920
Speaker 5: So I have scheduled a virtual appointment Thursday, and that

985
00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:06,359
Speaker 5: is going to be very beneficial. Task number four was

986
00:55:06,560 --> 00:55:09,080
Speaker 5: to write down three moments in the marriage where the

987
00:55:09,120 --> 00:55:12,719
Speaker 5: focus and all my energy was on her and I

988
00:55:12,760 --> 00:55:16,880
Speaker 5: didn't care for myself. It was tough to relive some

989
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:20,759
Speaker 5: of those moments, but again it was very beneficial and

990
00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:23,160
Speaker 5: the fact that I do know what I.

991
00:55:23,120 --> 00:55:27,920
Speaker 6: Would do differently this time, First and foremost, taking care

992
00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:31,359
Speaker 6: of my body, not overeating, not going to food when

993
00:55:31,400 --> 00:55:34,520
Speaker 6: I felt that abuse, and also going to the gym.

994
00:55:34,600 --> 00:55:36,800
Speaker 5: You know, just taking care of my body in general

995
00:55:37,719 --> 00:55:39,960
Speaker 5: would help take care of my mind, which would help

996
00:55:40,080 --> 00:55:43,040
Speaker 5: take care of my everyday life. I think in general

997
00:55:43,080 --> 00:55:48,480
Speaker 5: though during those moments, would be just to walk away

998
00:55:49,160 --> 00:55:53,680
Speaker 5: give myself space. I needed space too. That is a

999
00:55:53,680 --> 00:55:56,520
Speaker 5: big revelation for me, is that I needed to walk

1000
00:55:56,520 --> 00:55:58,200
Speaker 5: away to give myself space.

1001
00:55:58,440 --> 00:56:01,879
Speaker 4: So not trying to force being in the.

1002
00:56:01,800 --> 00:56:05,600
Speaker 7: Moment, just it's okay to step away for a while

1003
00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:09,440
Speaker 7: and allow her to be called. And then lastly, the

1004
00:56:09,440 --> 00:56:13,000
Speaker 7: biggest news is finding that it's outlet, that performance outlet,

1005
00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:16,000
Speaker 7: whether it's stand up comedy or whether it's joining the

1006
00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:18,560
Speaker 7: community to play. I reached out to a very very

1007
00:56:18,800 --> 00:56:22,759
Speaker 7: old close friend of mine that does theater in the

1008
00:56:22,760 --> 00:56:26,520
Speaker 7: city that I live, and we are meeting the day.

1009
00:56:26,400 --> 00:56:29,840
Speaker 5: That I get back in town. It was therapeutic just

1010
00:56:29,880 --> 00:56:32,320
Speaker 5: to speak with her about theater over the phone.

1011
00:56:32,680 --> 00:56:34,200
Speaker 4: Very very excited about that.

1012
00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:36,720
Speaker 5: And yeah, I know that there's things that I still

1013
00:56:36,920 --> 00:56:39,480
Speaker 5: need to do and still need to work on and accomplish,

1014
00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:41,560
Speaker 5: and I look forward to doing that.

1015
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:42,360
Speaker 4: Thank you.

1016
00:56:47,000 --> 00:56:49,040
Speaker 2: We gave Jordan a lot to do and I think

1017
00:56:49,040 --> 00:56:51,239
Speaker 2: he did some of it, and he struggled with some

1018
00:56:51,320 --> 00:56:53,200
Speaker 2: of it. And one of the first things we ask

1019
00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:54,920
Speaker 2: him to do is speak to his brothers. He did

1020
00:56:55,080 --> 00:56:57,719
Speaker 2: mention towards the end of our session with him that

1021
00:56:57,760 --> 00:57:00,680
Speaker 2: he's with one of his brothers now staying with him him.

1022
00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:03,280
Speaker 2: It's possible he wanted to wait to be in person

1023
00:57:03,440 --> 00:57:06,440
Speaker 2: with both of his brothers, but it seems to me

1024
00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:08,279
Speaker 2: that he could have had that conversation that that's a

1025
00:57:08,320 --> 00:57:09,920
Speaker 2: conversation he might be avoiding.

1026
00:57:10,440 --> 00:57:12,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I like that he had some insight into

1027
00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:14,919
Speaker 1: the fact that he might be avoiding that. He said,

1028
00:57:14,920 --> 00:57:16,960
Speaker 1: you know, I'm not really sure whether I'm just saying

1029
00:57:17,040 --> 00:57:19,439
Speaker 1: that I need to be in person with them or

1030
00:57:20,080 --> 00:57:22,440
Speaker 1: whether I'm really avoiding something. So I'm glad that he's

1031
00:57:22,480 --> 00:57:25,080
Speaker 1: really considering that, because he does tend to avoid things,

1032
00:57:25,080 --> 00:57:27,400
Speaker 1: and I'm glad he's starting to recognize that so that

1033
00:57:27,480 --> 00:57:29,720
Speaker 1: he can get out of that pattern. And I think

1034
00:57:29,720 --> 00:57:32,400
Speaker 1: something similar happened with the OA meeting. He said he

1035
00:57:32,440 --> 00:57:35,280
Speaker 1: had success with that, so I thought that he was

1036
00:57:35,320 --> 00:57:37,200
Speaker 1: going to say that he had been to a meeting.

1037
00:57:37,760 --> 00:57:41,200
Speaker 1: He said that he hasn't been to a meeting yet,

1038
00:57:41,560 --> 00:57:44,720
Speaker 1: but he is going to attend, So I really hope

1039
00:57:44,720 --> 00:57:47,200
Speaker 1: that he does go ahead and attend the meeting. It

1040
00:57:47,240 --> 00:57:49,640
Speaker 1: sounded like you put a lot of effort into researching that,

1041
00:57:49,880 --> 00:57:52,520
Speaker 1: so I think that he is motivated. I just think

1042
00:57:52,520 --> 00:57:54,720
Speaker 1: it's kind of getting over the hump of doing the

1043
00:57:54,760 --> 00:57:58,720
Speaker 1: thing that trips him up. So let's hope that he

1044
00:57:58,760 --> 00:58:00,560
Speaker 1: does go soon to one of those meanings. I think

1045
00:58:00,600 --> 00:58:02,240
Speaker 1: it would be really beneficial for him.

1046
00:58:02,760 --> 00:58:05,120
Speaker 2: I agree with you, and I think another place he

1047
00:58:05,480 --> 00:58:09,240
Speaker 2: didn't quite do enough work was with the therapist. We

1048
00:58:09,360 --> 00:58:12,160
Speaker 2: had said to him, Wow, you spent so much time

1049
00:58:12,320 --> 00:58:15,560
Speaker 2: researching a therapist for your wife. You really went to

1050
00:58:15,560 --> 00:58:19,320
Speaker 2: town and find the right person for her. Spend that

1051
00:58:19,360 --> 00:58:22,280
Speaker 2: same amount of time finding the right person for you.

1052
00:58:22,520 --> 00:58:24,440
Speaker 2: And I'm glad he decided he's going back to his

1053
00:58:24,520 --> 00:58:26,920
Speaker 2: previous therapist if he's comfortable there. But I do think

1054
00:58:26,920 --> 00:58:28,760
Speaker 2: he wasn't putting in the work to find the right

1055
00:58:28,840 --> 00:58:32,040
Speaker 2: person for himself as much as he did for his wife.

1056
00:58:32,320 --> 00:58:34,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, it seems like you put so much effort into

1057
00:58:34,800 --> 00:58:37,560
Speaker 1: her healing and he hasn't put as much effort into

1058
00:58:37,600 --> 00:58:40,480
Speaker 1: his own. I'm really glad that he decided to go

1059
00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:44,120
Speaker 1: back to therapy. I just hope that as he goes

1060
00:58:44,160 --> 00:58:46,760
Speaker 1: back to therapy, that he really sits with himself and says,

1061
00:58:47,240 --> 00:58:49,560
Speaker 1: is this the right match for me? And if it's not,

1062
00:58:49,720 --> 00:58:52,600
Speaker 1: if he could discuss that with his therapist and even

1063
00:58:52,680 --> 00:58:55,800
Speaker 1: have that conversation to find out, why is this not

1064
00:58:55,920 --> 00:58:59,200
Speaker 1: feeling right for me? Maybe it's a therapist, maybe it's not.

1065
00:58:59,760 --> 00:59:01,760
Speaker 1: But it would be great for him to really be

1066
00:59:01,800 --> 00:59:05,120
Speaker 1: able to have that conversation and say, I'm not sure

1067
00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:07,640
Speaker 1: if I'm getting my needs met. That would be such

1068
00:59:07,680 --> 00:59:09,040
Speaker 1: an important moment for him.

1069
00:59:09,520 --> 00:59:13,080
Speaker 2: I agree. And the task we gave him about going

1070
00:59:13,160 --> 00:59:17,000
Speaker 2: back to three difficult moments in his marriage and rewriting

1071
00:59:17,040 --> 00:59:20,040
Speaker 2: them in the sense of what he would do differently. Again,

1072
00:59:20,080 --> 00:59:22,240
Speaker 2: I think there was avoidance there. He went to higher

1073
00:59:22,320 --> 00:59:27,680
Speaker 2: level ideas of walk away or take care of myself

1074
00:59:27,720 --> 00:59:31,120
Speaker 2: in terms of my gym and my eating. But that's

1075
00:59:31,200 --> 00:59:34,680
Speaker 2: different than knowing what to do in the moment standing

1076
00:59:34,800 --> 00:59:37,240
Speaker 2: up for yourself. And I was hoping that he would

1077
00:59:37,280 --> 00:59:40,960
Speaker 2: find moments he could literally revisit that specific moment. What

1078
00:59:41,080 --> 00:59:43,840
Speaker 2: do you say that, I'm not sure he's figured out

1079
00:59:43,840 --> 00:59:44,600
Speaker 2: how to do yet.

1080
00:59:44,800 --> 00:59:46,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, if Jordan is listening to this, I hope

1081
00:59:46,800 --> 00:59:49,160
Speaker 1: what he'll do is he'll revisit some of those really

1082
00:59:49,200 --> 00:59:51,840
Speaker 1: really difficult moments and maybe they're just too traumatic for

1083
00:59:51,960 --> 00:59:55,439
Speaker 1: him to revisit quite yet. But when he gets there,

1084
00:59:55,440 --> 00:59:58,280
Speaker 1: when he feels comfortable, I hope that he'll revisit some

1085
00:59:58,360 --> 01:00:00,320
Speaker 1: of those moments that he shared with us in the

1086
01:00:00,360 --> 01:00:04,120
Speaker 1: session and say, if I could redo that moment, here's

1087
01:00:04,160 --> 01:00:06,720
Speaker 1: what I would do now, knowing what I know now

1088
01:00:07,080 --> 01:00:10,040
Speaker 1: about exactly what he said, I need space too. Now

1089
01:00:10,040 --> 01:00:12,280
Speaker 1: he was talking about walking away, but he needed to

1090
01:00:12,320 --> 01:00:15,520
Speaker 1: take up space because she was taking up all the space.

1091
01:00:15,760 --> 01:00:17,800
Speaker 1: So I hope you can look at those specific moments

1092
01:00:17,800 --> 01:00:20,160
Speaker 1: that he talked about with us and say, here's what

1093
01:00:20,200 --> 01:00:22,520
Speaker 1: I would do differently if I were to take up

1094
01:00:22,560 --> 01:00:25,120
Speaker 1: space too in that relationship.

1095
01:00:24,840 --> 01:00:28,440
Speaker 2: Exactly, and even articulate specifically, this is what I would

1096
01:00:28,480 --> 01:00:32,560
Speaker 2: say to her in that moment. Really put yourself there

1097
01:00:32,600 --> 01:00:33,960
Speaker 2: and articulate the sentences.

1098
01:00:34,320 --> 01:00:37,960
Speaker 1: Yeah. And I was really excited though about his excitement

1099
01:00:38,480 --> 01:00:41,760
Speaker 1: with getting back in touch with the creative side of himself.

1100
01:00:41,800 --> 01:00:44,440
Speaker 1: He really did everything with that task where he reached

1101
01:00:44,440 --> 01:00:47,480
Speaker 1: out to the friend. They talked about theater. They have

1102
01:00:47,560 --> 01:00:50,560
Speaker 1: a meeting setup. They're going to talk about local opportunities.

1103
01:00:50,600 --> 01:00:52,480
Speaker 1: She's going to help kind of guide him. And I

1104
01:00:52,480 --> 01:00:55,200
Speaker 1: think that support is really important. That you have someone

1105
01:00:55,520 --> 01:00:59,440
Speaker 1: who really wants to encourage your passion, and so here

1106
01:00:59,560 --> 01:01:02,600
Speaker 1: he has someone who says, oh wow, I really want

1107
01:01:02,640 --> 01:01:05,360
Speaker 1: to help you find a way to express this part

1108
01:01:05,400 --> 01:01:07,040
Speaker 1: of yourself that's really important to you.

1109
01:01:07,720 --> 01:01:11,080
Speaker 2: In general, I was thinking about comfort zones with Jordan

1110
01:01:11,520 --> 01:01:14,120
Speaker 2: and the idea that we try to stay within our

1111
01:01:14,160 --> 01:01:16,560
Speaker 2: comfort zone. But I want people to understand we might

1112
01:01:16,640 --> 01:01:20,560
Speaker 2: be comfortable with very specific kinds of discomfort, but I

1113
01:01:20,560 --> 01:01:23,720
Speaker 2: think it's when you're trying to stretch that zone, leaning

1114
01:01:23,800 --> 01:01:27,200
Speaker 2: into the kinds of conversations like with your brothers or

1115
01:01:27,200 --> 01:01:29,480
Speaker 2: how the redo with your ex wife that you really

1116
01:01:29,560 --> 01:01:32,760
Speaker 2: haven't had before. Help Jordan, if you're listening, you can

1117
01:01:32,800 --> 01:01:35,760
Speaker 2: try and expand your comfort zone, go to the things

1118
01:01:35,800 --> 01:01:38,919
Speaker 2: that make you uncomfortable, you're not used to, and that's

1119
01:01:38,960 --> 01:01:40,440
Speaker 2: where the real growth can be for you.

1120
01:01:41,000 --> 01:01:42,800
Speaker 1: And I think that's really hard to do, which is

1121
01:01:42,840 --> 01:01:46,360
Speaker 1: why I think that Jordan was so brave to reach

1122
01:01:46,400 --> 01:01:49,280
Speaker 1: out to us to say I want to change, I

1123
01:01:49,360 --> 01:01:52,000
Speaker 1: want things to be different, and to share with us

1124
01:01:52,120 --> 01:01:54,280
Speaker 1: all of the things that he did share with us.

1125
01:01:54,440 --> 01:01:57,600
Speaker 1: I really commend him for that, and I'm so excited

1126
01:01:57,640 --> 01:02:00,760
Speaker 1: to see what he can do when he really does

1127
01:02:00,800 --> 01:02:02,840
Speaker 1: stretch himself in the way that you described.

1128
01:02:03,280 --> 01:02:05,400
Speaker 2: So do I, because this is someone who's been through

1129
01:02:05,440 --> 01:02:08,160
Speaker 2: a lot. He's actually a strong person. He has a

1130
01:02:08,160 --> 01:02:10,720
Speaker 2: lot of determination, he has a lot of insight and

1131
01:02:10,760 --> 01:02:13,040
Speaker 2: self reflection. So I really think he'll be able to

1132
01:02:13,120 --> 01:02:16,880
Speaker 2: convert those going forward and to challenge himself because I

1133
01:02:16,880 --> 01:02:18,640
Speaker 2: think he has a ton of potential.

1134
01:02:19,120 --> 01:02:22,280
Speaker 1: You know, when we have sessions with people, we really

1135
01:02:22,960 --> 01:02:25,480
Speaker 1: get to know them quite well in a short amount

1136
01:02:25,480 --> 01:02:28,280
Speaker 1: of time, and I got this sense of Jordan as

1137
01:02:28,280 --> 01:02:32,840
Speaker 1: this incredibly loving person. And what I want for him

1138
01:02:32,880 --> 01:02:35,000
Speaker 1: is I want him to be in a loving relationship

1139
01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:38,560
Speaker 1: where it's reciprocal and he gets back what he gives.

1140
01:02:38,880 --> 01:02:41,040
Speaker 1: And so I hope that if he's listening to this,

1141
01:02:41,200 --> 01:02:43,760
Speaker 1: he understands that the work that we gave him is

1142
01:02:43,800 --> 01:02:46,520
Speaker 1: all in the service of helping him to get to

1143
01:02:46,560 --> 01:02:47,760
Speaker 1: a place where he can find that.

1144
01:02:51,760 --> 01:02:54,800
Speaker 2: Next week, we're checking in with Jennifer, who caught her

1145
01:02:54,840 --> 01:02:58,120
Speaker 2: fiance flirting with an next girlfriend on Instagram, to hear

1146
01:02:58,160 --> 01:02:59,920
Speaker 2: how she's doing one year later.

1147
01:03:00,360 --> 01:03:03,400
Speaker 8: I trust him we're in a good place I'd be

1148
01:03:03,480 --> 01:03:06,480
Speaker 8: lying if I said I'm one hundred percent trusting. But

1149
01:03:07,040 --> 01:03:10,080
Speaker 8: we have set ourselves on a good path with a therapy,

1150
01:03:10,360 --> 01:03:13,320
Speaker 8: and I believe we have the communication tools through that

1151
01:03:13,840 --> 01:03:14,880
Speaker 8: to keep us solid.

1152
01:03:15,120 --> 01:03:18,240
Speaker 1: If you're enjoying our podcast, don't forget to subscribe for

1153
01:03:18,320 --> 01:03:21,160
Speaker 1: free so that you don't miss any episodes, and please

1154
01:03:21,200 --> 01:03:23,960
Speaker 1: help support Dear Therapists by telling your friends about it

1155
01:03:24,120 --> 01:03:27,400
Speaker 1: and leaving a review on Apple Podcasts. Your reviews really

1156
01:03:27,440 --> 01:03:28,640
Speaker 1: help people to find the show.

1157
01:03:29,240 --> 01:03:31,480
Speaker 2: If you have a dilemma you'd like to discuss with us,

1158
01:03:31,760 --> 01:03:36,840
Speaker 2: email us at Lauri and Guy at iHeartMedia dot com.

1159
01:03:36,960 --> 01:03:41,200
Speaker 2: Our executive producer is Noel Brown. We're produced and edited

1160
01:03:41,240 --> 01:03:45,919
Speaker 2: by Josh Fisher. Additional editing support by Helena Rosen, John

1161
01:03:46,040 --> 01:03:51,000
Speaker 2: Washington and Zachary Fisher. Our interns are Ben Bernstein, Emily

1162
01:03:51,040 --> 01:03:55,320
Speaker 2: Gutierrez and Silva Lifton. And special thanks to our podcast

1163
01:03:55,360 --> 01:03:58,640
Speaker 2: Fairy Godmother Katie Curic. You can't wait to see you

1164
01:03:58,720 --> 01:04:05,800
Speaker 2: at our next session. Theotherapist is a production of iHeartRadio

1165
01:04:07,000 --> 01:04:07,720
Speaker 2: fischevod