Speaker 1: All right, folks, this is part two of our show
Speaker 1: on recycling. So if you haven't heard part one yet,
Speaker 1: stop what you're doing and click in to part one
Speaker 1: then come back here. Okay, all right, on with the show.
Speaker 2: I'm Anny, I'm Noah.
Speaker 1: This is Devin and this is no such thing, the
Speaker 1: show where you settle our dumb arguments and yours by
Speaker 1: actually doing the research previously on No such thing is
Speaker 1: recycling a scam. We heard from Davis Allen from the
Speaker 1: Center for Climate Integrity, who walked us through the history
Speaker 1: of plastic recycling and told us why research shows recycling
Speaker 1: just isn't worth the investment when you look at the
Speaker 1: environmental costs involved and the low percentage of plastic that
Speaker 1: actually gets recycled.
Speaker 3: The recycling thing is a distraction. It's not anything to
Speaker 3: do with the actual problem.
Speaker 1: Time jump. It's now a few weeks later. We were
Speaker 1: pretty shocked by what Davis told us, but us here
Speaker 1: at nsd h Q thought we had to hear from
Speaker 1: the pro recycling side. So Devin and I went to
Speaker 1: a recycling center here in Brooklyn to see what's happening
Speaker 1: to my coke bottles.
Speaker 2: There's no no such things, No such thank.
Speaker 4: Such, thank.
Speaker 3: Touch, thank.
Speaker 1: Touch, thank.
Speaker 4: So.
Speaker 1: Devon and I went on a field trip to investigate recycling.
Speaker 2: Further, I was jealous of this one. I wish I
Speaker 2: could have joined.
Speaker 1: Well, now it'll be like you joined us.
Speaker 5: My name is Karen Napolitano.
Speaker 4: I am the education director for Circular Services out at
Speaker 4: the Sunset Park Materials Recovery Facility. We receive all the metal, glass, plastic,
Speaker 4: and curtain recycling for all of the homes and all
Speaker 4: of the public schools and almost all of New York
Speaker 4: City right here. And it's our job at this facility
Speaker 4: to sort through those materials. Then we compress them into
Speaker 4: bales like that little robot Lollie from that movie. And
Speaker 4: then we sell the bails to companies that use the products.
Speaker 4: They prepare them to become new products and use them again.
Speaker 1: Basically, we went through like what the little kids get
Speaker 1: on the tour first, which was actually very helpful. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and then we saw the real thing.
Speaker 4: So we are a mirf. We're a materials recovery facility,
Speaker 4: which is a sorting facility for recyclables.
Speaker 5: We're a pretty fancymurf.
Speaker 4: We are considered state of the art.
Speaker 1: Just a quick note here. This MIRF is in Brooklyn,
Speaker 1: so we're following New York rules and processes. As far
Speaker 1: as recycling goes, This stuff varies county by county across
Speaker 1: the country, So for specifics, you should look up your
Speaker 1: own area to find out how recycling is happening, because
Speaker 1: it will and all likely it would be at least
Speaker 1: a little bit different than here in New York. Materials
Speaker 1: arrive from all across a city on a barge or
Speaker 1: a truck. This center handles metal, plastic, glass, and cartons.
Speaker 1: Paper is supposed to go elsewhere. All this trash is
Speaker 1: placed in a big pot or all this is all
Speaker 1: of this refuse perhaps is placed in a big All
Speaker 1: this material is placed in a big pile, then pushed
Speaker 1: into the actual sorting process. Glass is smashed up into
Speaker 1: small pieces so it can filter out away from the
Speaker 1: plastic and metal. Magnets grab the metal and non magnetic
Speaker 1: metals are sorted with eddy currents. Then optical sorders send
Speaker 1: out near infrared beams. They can read what the other
Speaker 1: items are made out of. So it shoots a laser
Speaker 1: essentially at a piece of plastic and says, okay, this
Speaker 1: is this type of plastic. Send it over here. This
Speaker 1: is the send it over there.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: Once it knows which one it is, then different air
Speaker 1: beams shoot them in the right direction. It's an incredibly
Speaker 1: complex system. It's amazing. Yeah. So all of this is
Speaker 1: basically happening big pile. Then they put into these shoots
Speaker 1: that then these different sorting things happen. So there's like
Speaker 1: grinders that are breaking up the glass, so that gets
Speaker 1: it out of there. Then the magnets take the metal away.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And the idea is that the grinder is only gonna
Speaker 2: break glass because of the way glass.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not doing it, so it breaks into small
Speaker 1: pieces of that gets rid of that. Okay, it's a
Speaker 1: filtering exactly. So it's filtering step by step for different types.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Then these laser beams are going okay, that's that's the
Speaker 1: number three. We're gonna send the air to shoot it
Speaker 1: over this direction. Okay, it's kind of it's amazing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and we're gonna put video of this on our newsletter.
Speaker 1: So a lot of this is automated.
Speaker 4: Human interaction is fairly light at our facility. It's just
Speaker 4: at the end of the process, whereas some smaller facilities
Speaker 4: might use humans more so in the.
Speaker 1: Process, care even said they have some AI robotics in use,
Speaker 1: and then there's a few people you can see in
Speaker 1: the different parts of the facility to kind of check
Speaker 1: up on stuff. So once everything's sorted, then they bail
Speaker 1: it up.
Speaker 4: Then we have our WALLI moment, we make our bails.
Speaker 4: So you see all this sort of recyclables they dump
Speaker 4: into a bunker. When the bunker is full, it feeds
Speaker 4: into the bailer. The bailer compresses the recyclables from all
Speaker 4: sides and they pop out in the nice bail that's
Speaker 4: held together with steel cabling. And that is what we
Speaker 4: sell SOMRPHS Material recovery facilities.
Speaker 5: They sort and they bail.
Speaker 1: And sell the bails and sell it to whoever's looking
Speaker 1: for said material to reuse. It's not like directly to
Speaker 1: like a Coca Cola or Nestle. It's like a intermediary
Speaker 1: company I see who kind of gets in there and
Speaker 1: deals with that, okay.
Speaker 3: And the company will break the material down further so.
Speaker 1: That it's yeah, because right now they're just getting a
Speaker 1: big bail and it's just like you just took all
Speaker 1: this stuff and compare cartes. Yeah, exactly, so just piles
Speaker 1: and piles of that. Something I didn't know is that
Speaker 1: soft plastics like plastic bags cannot be recycled.
Speaker 2: Soft plastics like plastic like a grocery bag.
Speaker 1: Grocery bag, you're just like, you know, shrink wrap on
Speaker 1: a on a thing, like, don't don't put that in your.
Speaker 2: I guess is that why like New York could band yeah.
Speaker 1: Plastical, which makes sense of course when I hear it
Speaker 1: like this, but I just assumed, yeah, I don't need
Speaker 1: this bat like I just thought, I don't know, and
Speaker 1: we could see on the thing like it would get
Speaker 1: basically because like so many these things are rollers or whatever,
Speaker 1: the soft plastic would just then wrap around the beam.
Speaker 2: So is the only reason that plastic can't be recycled
Speaker 2: because their machine would get sucked up, they can't have it.
Speaker 1: I think that's one piece, but I don't think it's
Speaker 1: the main reason. I think it's mainly like it's so
Speaker 1: soft that it's like you can't really break it down, and.
Speaker 3: Plastic only the grades the more you recycle it. Once
Speaker 3: you get to that point.
Speaker 1: One more quick note on the plastic bag soft plastic thing. Again,
Speaker 1: this varies based on where you are but here in
Speaker 1: New York, while bags shouldn't be put in household recycling,
Speaker 1: you can recycle plastic bags and other film plastics bring
Speaker 1: them to large stores or certain chain stores in the city.
Speaker 1: So check out what's going on in your area to
Speaker 1: find out what to do with those things. In particular, Devin,
Speaker 1: what were you What were your biggest takeaways from seeing
Speaker 1: the process?
Speaker 3: I was shocked by how high tech it was.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it sounds thet the lasers and the magnets, really.
Speaker 3: The air blowing at specific items to push them in
Speaker 3: specific directions on the conveytion. This it looked like some
Speaker 3: ship out of like futurema. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well also just and the scale of it described this pile.
Speaker 1: It was massive, It was huge.
Speaker 3: I mean this is buildings, you know stories. We're in
Speaker 3: like a huge warehouse, essentially warehouse. A barge is coming in.
Speaker 3: Barges aren't small, No, you have seen a barge.
Speaker 1: I've seen are pretty large and they're carrying a lot
Speaker 1: of stuff on there charge not small.
Speaker 3: Either, big big boat.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they look tiny compared to this pile.
Speaker 3: Yep.
Speaker 2: It's bringing in recycled things that people thought you could recycle.
Speaker 3: Yes, and this is the thing that She emphasized too,
Speaker 3: is that please only put recycling in a recycling bin,
Speaker 3: because when they get garbage, then they got to sort
Speaker 3: that out and then send it to get thrown on
Speaker 3: the garbage. So it's just making the garbage take a
Speaker 3: longer route. It's more money to pay for it. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: to end up in a place where it should have
Speaker 3: just gone initially. Yeah. So it was much more high
Speaker 3: tech than I thought, because part of me was like,
Speaker 3: this is what my frustration with the recycling process was
Speaker 3: when I was just doing it at home. It's like,
Speaker 3: how did they know which material goes where? If I'm
Speaker 3: putting all these different type of plastics into one place?
Speaker 3: Who is shorting? Is there a guy? I was just
Speaker 3: down there like this is like a you know, a
Speaker 3: milk curt and I'm putting it over here, and it's like, no,
Speaker 3: that's not what's happening. Yeah, And I was surprised by
Speaker 3: how many, at least in New York, you can kind
Speaker 3: of recycle almost any any hard plastic, hard plastic, any
Speaker 3: hard plastic, So like we said, plastic bags, no, but
Speaker 3: any like food containers, anything that is hard can be recycled.
Speaker 3: So she was showing us like you know, they have
Speaker 3: the prices for the types of materials and.
Speaker 1: It changes every day. It's like you know the market,
Speaker 1: you know the markets.
Speaker 3: You know the market.
Speaker 1: Of course, of course you wake up every day you
Speaker 1: check the plastic right now.
Speaker 3: But it was Yeah, it was pretty incredible to see that. Okay,
Speaker 3: me putting the stuff into my little plastic bin at
Speaker 3: home does actually make it somewhere where they are shorting
Speaker 3: it and then sending it out for reuse elsewhere.
Speaker 2: So when I'm at home separating my recyclables, yep, I
Speaker 2: separate paper and cardboard away from that's good plastic.
Speaker 1: That's that's good because they don't do they don't do
Speaker 1: paper here, that's what they do.
Speaker 3: Collect it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that goes to a different thing. Just take three
Speaker 1: routed to that's recycling, but not here.
Speaker 2: So it is actually helpful that I'm not putting everything
Speaker 2: I think I can recycle into one bag. No, yeah,
Speaker 2: so you can put these thing so you can put
Speaker 2: metal plastic, yes, and uh I guess class yes in
Speaker 2: here in one one thing and as long as you're
Speaker 2: you're you're super will allow it. Yeah, yeah, I got
Speaker 2: that's a separate I'm just sending him this episode.
Speaker 1: But that can all be in one paper should be separate.
Speaker 3: Paper and cardboard needs to be separated.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because it's it might go here, but they're gonna
Speaker 1: have to descend it out. You're wasting money, tax payer dollars.
Speaker 3: You know, talking about apartment bill. It draws me crazy.
Speaker 3: Now I'll go downstairs. They just got recycling bins and
Speaker 3: that people putting everything in there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I'm doing.
Speaker 3: Is plastic, there's metal, there's glass, all on the same bin.
Speaker 3: So now I'm thinking about, my god, this is ending
Speaker 3: up at that place. It's just half of this is
Speaker 3: probably just going in the trash.
Speaker 2: That's really crazy. You got to have a bin downstairs
Speaker 2: at your apartment.
Speaker 1: That's here's the and.
Speaker 3: This is if you go and you walk around, look around,
Speaker 3: you see people there. There are people doing this right.
Speaker 4: So in New York City we have our two og
Speaker 4: recycling bins. We have what we call the Blue bin,
Speaker 4: where you can recycle four materials anything that is mostly
Speaker 4: metal from a tiny bottle cap to a large refrigerator
Speaker 4: and everything in between, but not batteries and electronics, then glass,
Speaker 4: bottles and jars. Only if it's glass, it must be
Speaker 4: called bottle or jar. Otherwise it is not recyclable.
Speaker 5: Unfortunately.
Speaker 4: Then cartons is the third material. Cartons go in the
Speaker 4: blue I know it's a cardboard box, it's coated.
Speaker 5: In plastic, so we don't want it in the paper bin.
Speaker 5: Cartons go in the blue bin.
Speaker 4: And then rigid plastic. So in New York City, put
Speaker 4: all rigid, all hard plastic in the blue bin. No
Speaker 4: soft plastic, bags, pouches, or wrappers. All hard plastic of
Speaker 4: all shapes and sizes. Then in what we call the
Speaker 4: green bin. That's for paper and cardboard. All paper, any paper, if.
Speaker 5: You can rip it, you can recycle it.
Speaker 4: And all cardboard, including greasy pizza boxes. You may absolutely
Speaker 4: put greasy pizza boxes in the recycling bin with the
Speaker 4: paper cardboard.
Speaker 5: Just don't leave any peace in the box.
Speaker 3: So when you put out your materials, materials, and you
Speaker 3: got your the guys who are taking it and putting
Speaker 3: into the truck, there's sections, okay, So the paper and
Speaker 3: plastic they have a section for that, and the metals,
Speaker 3: glass and materials they have a section for that.
Speaker 2: So they're pulling out the bags from my blue bin.
Speaker 2: But they're taking a quick look at it because the
Speaker 2: bag is transparent, This is going over here, this is
Speaker 2: going over there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, now that we have the you're supposed to have
Speaker 3: standardized trash bins and recycling bins. That's supposed to make
Speaker 3: that process easier. So they know, okay, this screen, yeah exactly,
Speaker 3: But as long as it's in a clear bag, I
Speaker 3: think that's fine.
Speaker 1: They should be able to figure that out. Time for
Speaker 1: a quick break. When we're back, we hear from Kara
Speaker 1: about why those recycling rate numbers from part one are
Speaker 1: so low.
Speaker 3: All right, fellas, I need you to help me with
Speaker 3: a problem that I got. You know, usually we're the
Speaker 3: ones helping other people with their problems. But I'm about
Speaker 3: to go abroad and I'm want to watch Met games. Noah,
Speaker 3: how can I watch them?
Speaker 1: That's a tough one. Maybe get a really large telescope.
Speaker 3: I don't think that's the best way to do it. Manny,
Speaker 3: do you have any solutions on how I can watch
Speaker 3: Mets games? You broad?
Speaker 2: I think I've got a slightly more practical solution for you, Devin.
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Speaker 1: What about my privacy online. I'm worried someone's watching me.
Speaker 1: First of all, no one is watching you, Noah.
Speaker 2: But in case someone was watching you, NordVPN provides you
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Speaker 3: Sounds comfy, So, Manny, I've heard about these VPNs and
Speaker 3: how they're super slipt. How do I make sure my
Speaker 3: internet is not throttling?
Speaker 2: If you want to use a VPN without slowing down
Speaker 2: your internet, Devin, You're gonna want to use NordVPN because
Speaker 2: whenever I use it, I don't see any buffering or
Speaker 2: lagging while I'm streaming my favorite content.
Speaker 1: How do I get NordVPN, Devin?
Speaker 2: If you or our listeners want to get the best
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Speaker 1: Nst Cara brought up the nine percent recycling rate issue,
Speaker 1: which is kind of the big thing we were talking
Speaker 1: about with Davis, where only nine percent things got recycled. Okay,
Speaker 1: and she brought this up before I even got there.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I was saving up for the end because I was like,
Speaker 1: this is gonna get this to get nasty.
Speaker 4: And if you want me to explain the nine percent
Speaker 4: of plastic, I would be happy to do. So, yes,
Speaker 4: if you've heard that, yeah, yeah, okay, so yeah, So
Speaker 4: there's the statistic that everyone loves to like run at
Speaker 4: me with their hands flailing in the air.
Speaker 5: Only nine percent of plastic gets recycled.
Speaker 4: So I just want to explain that statistic because it's
Speaker 4: a bit misunderstood. So I think people hear this stat
Speaker 4: and they think, oh my gosh, of all the plastic
Speaker 4: I'm putting in my recycling, then only nine percent of
Speaker 4: it is actually getting recycled, And know that is not
Speaker 4: what that number is describing. If of all the plastic
Speaker 4: we were getting, if we could only recycle nine percent
Speaker 4: of it, that would be a ninety one percent loss
Speaker 4: for us, and that costs money.
Speaker 5: Anything that we send to the.
Speaker 4: Trash we pay for So we would probably say Hey, guys,
Speaker 4: stop sending us plastic because ninety one percent of it
Speaker 4: we have to pay to send it to a landfill.
Speaker 5: Right, It just makes no sense. So what that number
Speaker 5: is describing.
Speaker 4: Is describing the percentage of all plastics manufactured in a
Speaker 4: year that you United States residents actually put into recycling bins.
Speaker 4: That's usually what those numbers are describing is how much
Speaker 4: we as residents are actually putting in to the bin.
Speaker 4: Once it gets in the bin and comes to a
Speaker 4: sorting facility, sorting facilities are going to recover eighty seven
Speaker 4: to ninety five percent of the good stuff.
Speaker 2: Let's make a really rudimentary example here, where the United
Speaker 2: States only produces ten water bottles a year. She's saying
Speaker 2: consumers are only recycling one out of the ten water
Speaker 2: bottles produced by the United States.
Speaker 3: And that's nothing to say of what becomes of that
Speaker 3: water bottle, just that we're only putting one.
Speaker 1: In the bin, and that one, once it gets to
Speaker 1: the murph is getting recycled eighty five. Yeah, so eighty
Speaker 1: five percent of that one bottle.
Speaker 2: Just like say, statistic that we originally thought was an
Speaker 2: indictment of the recycling industry is She's arguing is actually
Speaker 2: an indictment of human beings all since consumers.
Speaker 1: Well yeah, which is kind of the whole crux of this,
Speaker 1: because that's also what to be fair to Davis, He's saying,
Speaker 1: we're taking the guilt on for Yeah, who's making the plastic,
Speaker 1: you know, But it is what I'm learning is everyone's
Speaker 1: involved in this. But if you put all the all
Speaker 1: the plastic in your house, in your apartment, yeah, your home,
Speaker 1: but yeah, into microplastics the recycling bin, it would get
Speaker 1: to the center and most of that, or eighty seven
Speaker 1: to ninety five percent of that would be recycled. Well,
Speaker 1: this revelation is bitter sweet in the sense that I
Speaker 1: feel a lot better that what I'm recycling is pretty
Speaker 1: much ending up getting recycled. But it also means that
Speaker 1: way fewer people are recycling than I thought. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean that's the trouble because you know, I mentioned
Speaker 1: how relieved in a sense I was in a sick
Speaker 1: way that the recycling goes to do anything, and now
Speaker 1: I'm realizing I might need to recycle more than ever. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's all in my countryman. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we need to get to the bottom of this
Speaker 2: because it's a cycle. It's like, which way Western Man,
Speaker 2: this episode could end when where I'm with me not
Speaker 2: recycling anymore or killing even.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like I might have to confront my landlord. Bins.
Speaker 1: I'll say this, I'm probably gonna have to have three
Speaker 1: bins now, Yeah, I have two.
Speaker 3: I was thinking about this.
Speaker 1: I have a garbage bin yep and a recycling bin ye.
Speaker 1: And for a while I was putting all my recyclables,
Speaker 1: including paper, in the same in the one bin. No one,
Speaker 1: no one sorting downstairs. I'm putting. I'm doing my best.
Speaker 1: I'm putting this stuff here. And then my trash, my
Speaker 1: real trash in the trash bin. That's not gonna that's
Speaker 1: not gonna fly anymore. I gotta have Listen, you're gonna
Speaker 1: have four things composts.
Speaker 3: I got trash, I'm gonna have to have my metals,
Speaker 3: my glass, my plastics, and then I'm gonna have to
Speaker 3: have another one from a car.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to buy a storage.
Speaker 2: You're going to use one of your rooms, Yeah, your
Speaker 2: bedrooms to get a bedroom apartment, one of the rooms.
Speaker 3: Recycling you were saying earlier New York. It takes all
Speaker 3: rigid plastics, but there are some places that do not.
Speaker 3: Does that nine percent number also account for those places
Speaker 3: who are just like, we're not going to sort this.
Speaker 4: No, that nine percent is its own thing that is
Speaker 4: never attached to recycling centers.
Speaker 5: It's not, it's really not.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was a study done by the EPA in
Speaker 4: twenty eighteen where they looked at all materials, looked at
Speaker 4: how much was manufactured in a year, and then they
Speaker 4: looked at how much of what was manufactured people put
Speaker 4: into recycling.
Speaker 5: Thin That's what it is describing. It's the whole country.
Speaker 5: It's not localized.
Speaker 4: You can look sometimes cities like New York City, you
Speaker 4: can look at our recycling rates. The city puts out
Speaker 4: a really great report every five years, the Waste Characterization Study,
Speaker 4: and you can see what percentage of each type of
Speaker 4: material New York are putting into the right bin. You know,
Speaker 4: you look at like a milk jug or a water jug.
Speaker 4: New Yorkers are putting like over fifty percent I think
Speaker 4: maybe sixty percent of these into the recycling bin.
Speaker 5: So we're doing a great job with these.
Speaker 4: But then you look at something like a soda can
Speaker 4: and I think is only like thirty percent.
Speaker 5: Which is crazy. That's like the poster Child are recyclable.
Speaker 4: But people are putting thirty percent of their soda cans
Speaker 4: in the recycling bin and the rest they're putting in
Speaker 4: the trash. It makes me want to pass out. Aluminum
Speaker 4: is so recyclable, and it's so taxing to mine the
Speaker 4: raw materials and then manufacture aluminum for raw materials. It's
Speaker 4: very environmentally taxing.
Speaker 1: If say ninety percent of plastic was put into recycling
Speaker 1: bins and made it to facilities like this, I'm sure
Speaker 1: there'd be some loss obviously, but most of that would
Speaker 1: be recycled and then sold.
Speaker 4: So the one other thing you have to consider is
Speaker 4: what of that is recyclable or not. Now, most of
Speaker 4: the things that just regular everyday folks, most plastics that
Speaker 4: we buy that are rigid, most of its plastic packaging,
Speaker 4: the more like large, substantial stuff.
Speaker 5: And most of that is recyclable.
Speaker 4: But then you get into like little stuff and like
Speaker 4: cosmetics and toys and like the multi material stuff.
Speaker 5: Right, so you kind of.
Speaker 4: Have to look at the percentages of well, how much
Speaker 4: of it is recyclable, and then yeah, of the good stuff,
Speaker 4: if you put it in the right bin, we're going
Speaker 4: to recover it it's going to get recycled.
Speaker 2: Did you guys happen to ask her about what happens
Speaker 2: if there's food stuck on the thing, Like I remember,
Speaker 2: we were okay, wow, Yeah, it's gonna save me about
Speaker 2: ten minutes work recycling.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because like obviously don't like you know, but they're
Speaker 3: not throwing out plastic because there's like food residue on
Speaker 3: you know, like our yogurt or something. Yeah, I would
Speaker 3: say that's more so so it just doesn't stick up
Speaker 3: your house.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, do for yourself.
Speaker 2: I missed recycling last night. Actually fucked up on that one. Wow,
Speaker 2: it only comes mondays, it's kind of inconvenient.
Speaker 1: Garfield hates that. What do you see as the solution
Speaker 1: to get that number higher? So you don't need to
Speaker 1: argue about it anymore.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: The funny thing about the nine percent of plastic statistic
Speaker 4: is if people put more recyclable plastic in the recycling bin,
Speaker 4: that percentage would go up, and then more plastic.
Speaker 5: Would be recycled. But I think what ends up happening.
Speaker 4: Is people hear that statistic, they kind of misunderstand it,
Speaker 4: they lose faith and hope, and they put less in
Speaker 4: the bin.
Speaker 5: And that's going to just lead to that number going down.
Speaker 4: So look, I'm a recycling educator, so I will tell
Speaker 4: you to recycle.
Speaker 5: I will tell you recycling is.
Speaker 4: Good, but I will stress also, you know, recycling saves materials,
Speaker 4: which is great and essential, but if you want to
Speaker 4: save the planet, we need to reduce and reuse first.
Speaker 4: That's obvious, like no one is trying to skirt around that.
Speaker 4: But still recycling has its place. So there are some
Speaker 4: materials that aren't made for re use unfortunately, but can
Speaker 4: definitely be recycled. So just put them in the recycling
Speaker 4: then get the recycling numbers up.
Speaker 5: It's not hurting anything.
Speaker 3: I like that. I like that what she just said.
Speaker 3: Recycling saves material If you want to save the planet,
Speaker 3: we got to reduce and reuse and reverse. Okay that
Speaker 3: on a shirt.
Speaker 2: We're all familiar with the reuse sentiment there. But reduce
Speaker 2: meaning just like, stop using as many plastic, stop.
Speaker 3: Buying plastics instead of buying a plastic. What about it
Speaker 3: when you go to the store, Hey, have you ever
Speaker 3: her reusable?
Speaker 2: Have you seen Martin Ellis?
Speaker 3: It's glass, but you're still producing that material. I know
Speaker 3: every time you go and then you throw it out.
Speaker 2: I know, I'm saying I got to crush an apple
Speaker 2: and get the juice.
Speaker 1: Out of it. You put it into your glass, put
Speaker 1: you can reuse that. Yeah, okay, So yeah, so I
Speaker 1: asked about I asked about basically the argument that we're
Speaker 1: putting the onus on the individuals, not corporation. The powers
Speaker 1: would be yes. So this is what kerasaid.
Speaker 5: I absolutely hear that as well.
Speaker 4: And yeah, I manufacturing is all single use culture of convenience,
Speaker 4: Like we're dug very deeply into that, and I do,
Speaker 4: you know, want to kind of put a spotlight on that.
Speaker 5: And I think that manufacturing actually absolutely could change.
Speaker 4: We could figure out more ways to integrate reuse less
Speaker 4: single use packaging. Yes, but the responsibility is everyone's you know,
Speaker 4: yeah they're making it, but who's buying it?
Speaker 5: You know, someone's buying it as well.
Speaker 4: So I really look at the responsibility as everyone's look
Speaker 4: in the mirror.
Speaker 3: We need to fix ourselves. If we weren't buying all
Speaker 3: these plastics, they would make it.
Speaker 2: They wouldn't be making them. It's true, but we're such
Speaker 2: an on the go culture. I can imagine myself, you know,
Speaker 2: getting like a subscription leader bag of like Coca cola
Speaker 2: or whatever and then pouring it into my not a
Speaker 2: flag obvious. I'm trying to figure out how I would
Speaker 2: how I would satisfy my Coca Cola craving.
Speaker 1: No, that's not an option, not happening.
Speaker 5: But I would say it's everyone's responsibility. Buy less, single
Speaker 5: use stuff, commit to reuse, and.
Speaker 4: Be an example in that, you know, let others see
Speaker 4: how possible it is, and others will follow, you know.
Speaker 4: And yeah, we want to do things to push the needle.
Speaker 4: We want to push manufacturers to to do better, in
Speaker 4: the big companies to do better. One thing we're trying
Speaker 4: to pass in New York State now is something called
Speaker 4: extended Producer Responsibility. It puts more responsibility on producers, right, Okay,
Speaker 4: you made that. You're also going to help us pay
Speaker 4: to recycle it and manage it once it becomes waste.
Speaker 4: So this has existed in Europe and Canada for decades
Speaker 4: and a few states I think seven states now have
Speaker 4: passed this legislation, Extended Producer Responsibility. We're trying to get
Speaker 4: it in New York State, which can encourage manufacturers to
Speaker 4: design materials that are easier to recycle. Because then you
Speaker 4: pay less basically if it's easier to recycle, and you
Speaker 4: pay more if it's trash, or you pay more if
Speaker 4: it's difficult to recycle what have you. So that can
Speaker 4: kind of move the needle on design.
Speaker 1: That's a fair take I think as far as everyone
Speaker 1: could be doing better, Yes, recycle it to your best ability.
Speaker 1: And also obviously point of the big companies to produce
Speaker 1: it to maybe do less or do more.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and you know they're they're doing stuff.
Speaker 4: So our company, Circular Services, we're a part of Closed
Speaker 4: Loop Partners, and there's some of those big companies that
Speaker 4: are investors. You know, they know, they're responsible, they know,
Speaker 4: and they're they're coming to the table. But yeah, how
Speaker 4: can we all push that push circularity forward?
Speaker 1: All right, we are going to take a quick break
Speaker 1: and when we return, we weigh in with our final
Speaker 1: takeaways about everything we've learned during this wild ride into
Speaker 1: the world of recycle. What are you guys thoughts as
Speaker 1: far as should we be recycling?
Speaker 3: I think initially I felt a little bit sort of
Speaker 3: like this is all waste of time. I still feel
Speaker 3: a bit that way, because I think recycling is just
Speaker 3: a way for the oil companies to be like, hey,
Speaker 3: we're doing our good deed. But I think now I
Speaker 3: feel a bit like, well, I'm just going to put
Speaker 3: the stuff in a recycling bent and then whatever y'all
Speaker 3: do with it is on y'all. But you can't point
Speaker 3: I feel like if I don't recycle, then they can
Speaker 3: point the finger at me right and say, hey, we've
Speaker 3: kind of done a better job, you know, you know,
Speaker 3: saving the earth. But Devon over here is not putting
Speaker 3: stuff in recycling lazy Devon. Yeah, but now if if
Speaker 3: I say whatever, I'm going to take every single thing
Speaker 3: that can be recycled and put it in bin. And
Speaker 3: now was up to you whether or not it's actually
Speaker 3: gonna be reused. Yeah, it takes very little effort online
Speaker 3: side of things.
Speaker 1: That's that's generally how I feel like.
Speaker 3: Especially after you know, talking to Kara, I think we
Speaker 3: had a lot of assumptions that you got to rinse
Speaker 3: the thing out and yeah, these things can't be together
Speaker 3: and blah blah blah, And after seeing how it's shorted
Speaker 3: and stuff, it's like, oh, just literally just put it
Speaker 3: in the bin and it will probably be recycled. Yeah,
Speaker 3: So it feels like the bar is much lower to
Speaker 3: just like do the right thing, do your small pot,
Speaker 3: And I don't think that's going to solve the problem.
Speaker 3: I think more so my take away from all of
Speaker 3: this is like I just I'm going to try to
Speaker 3: use less plastic. Period.
Speaker 2: Yeah, after hearing from Kara, I'm I'm much more interested
Speaker 2: in the reduce.
Speaker 3: Out of that.
Speaker 2: You know, the catchphrase of reduce, reuse, recycle, reducing and
Speaker 2: reusing I think is going to make much more of
Speaker 2: an impact than me kind of like fumbling over what
Speaker 2: goes and what beata every Monday night. But it is
Speaker 2: good to know that like most, if not all, of
Speaker 2: what I put in into the bags on Monday night
Speaker 2: will end up getting recycled. I did think beforehand, like
Speaker 2: you know, God bless whatever happens to this stuff is
Speaker 2: what happens. And uh, you know, I'm doing this because
Speaker 2: my landlord makes me do it, not because I feel
Speaker 2: like I have to. I'm saving the world, and you know,
Speaker 2: now I have there's a lot more context, you know,
Speaker 2: into where these things are ending up, which which is good.
Speaker 2: But it honestly made me think about like coke bottles,
Speaker 2: like you know, glass coke bottles, like maybe I can
Speaker 2: just fill that up with water and keep using it.
Speaker 1: Well, that's gonna be tough because they don't have caps,
Speaker 1: just like at home.
Speaker 3: At home as a glass.
Speaker 2: Hey, I'm taking not not necessarily coke bottles, but like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I feel like there's a lot of ship I bought
Speaker 2: and immediately.
Speaker 3: To get rid of it. It's funny because I feel
Speaker 3: like our parents were reusing a lot of stuff. You know,
Speaker 3: people's houses, they have jugs. Yeah, refilling drugs would be plastic.
Speaker 3: There'd be plastic like butter containers that would turn into like,
Speaker 3: all right, now this is a container for food. Yep.
Speaker 3: Right before it was so easy to go on Amazon
Speaker 3: and be like I need a container for this thing,
Speaker 3: or I need a thing for this thing.
Speaker 1: There was a lot more looking at the container store. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I wonder who owns that big oil yep.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I think there is a way that like
Speaker 3: we should Well it's also just like the stuff that
Speaker 3: we choose to buy.
Speaker 1: Yes, right, Well, you know people make fun of you know,
Speaker 1: the millennial Mason jar thing. Yeah, they had the right
Speaker 1: idea exactly.
Speaker 3: It just this also makes me a little bit like
Speaker 3: it's really obsessed me. Now when I go downstairs, and
Speaker 3: I see that things are not separated correctly in my building. Mmm,
Speaker 3: because I'm like, guys, you can't put the cardboard in
Speaker 3: with the plastic and the glass, you know. Like now
Speaker 3: I'm kind of a tyrant for that.
Speaker 1: I'm going to set up a new bin in my
Speaker 1: home after this.
Speaker 3: I think I'm.
Speaker 1: For the papers and cardboards.
Speaker 3: I love my landlord about a lot of things. I'm
Speaker 3: adding this to the list. I'm like, you gotta label.
Speaker 2: They can't wait till you move.
Speaker 3: Really, you got a label two of these Ben's cardboard board.
Speaker 1: It's getting the initial setup. I think whatever the you know,
Speaker 1: crowd psychology of getting people to actually adopt something, it's
Speaker 1: you know, people study this and it's very difficult to do,
Speaker 1: and it's going to take a lot. I mean, we're
Speaker 1: we're only just now learning we don't need to clean
Speaker 1: out our plastic that we're recycling. Yeah, thoroughly. How long
Speaker 1: has that rumor been going around, you know, you know,
Speaker 1: updating the the popular knowledge of these things. Yes, a
Speaker 1: lot of time. Especially people aren't like I was never
Speaker 1: particularly interested or invested in this subject, right, you know.
Speaker 3: We might make a bunch of tiktoks and tweets about it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't even know where that came from.
Speaker 1: The cleaning thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, your asshole friend who thinks they know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean there was probably some article like twenty
Speaker 1: years ago. You read it once, you go oh, and
Speaker 1: then like I'm not going to check it on updates
Speaker 1: on it. They need from there, ye, pain messaging. They
Speaker 1: need some I don't know, celebrities to do something this.
Speaker 3: Get some influencers instead of going to Coachella. Y'all need
Speaker 3: to tell us recycle correct.
Speaker 1: Think how much recycling is or isn't happening at Coachella.
Speaker 1: It's disgusting hearing these explanations back to back. Is it
Speaker 1: just interesting as kind of a Worshock test of depending
Speaker 1: on who you're talking to or the rest of the conversation,
Speaker 1: you can hear the same thing and just kind of
Speaker 1: take a totally different takeaway in some ways. But at
Speaker 1: the same time they are kind of saying, hey, we're
Speaker 1: using way too many plastics. Yeah, single quote unquote single
Speaker 1: use or disposable plastics, and this is bad. And then
Speaker 1: you can choose, Yeah, you can choose which path your
Speaker 1: mind goes from there. Yeah, it was a good, good
Speaker 1: lesson as a as a podcaster and a journalist, and
Speaker 1: as a as a man.
Speaker 4: As as He's a thing.
Speaker 1: No Such Thing as a production of Kaleidoscope Content. Our
Speaker 1: executive producers are Kate Osbourne and Mangesha to Cadur. The
Speaker 1: show is created by Manny Fidel, Noah Friedman and Devin
Speaker 1: Joseph Theman credit song by Manny, mixing by Steve Bone.
Speaker 1: Thank you to our guest Karen Apolatano from Circular Services.
Speaker 1: You can visit No Such Thing dot show to subscribe
Speaker 1: to our newsletter for links to research and more, including
Speaker 1: some video of what we saw at the recycling facility.
Speaker 1: And lastly, we want to hear from you. We made
Speaker 1: a survey. You can find a link in the show
Speaker 1: notes and on our newsletter to get feedback about what
Speaker 1: you like about our show, what you don't like, and
Speaker 1: a lot more. If you had other feed dot for
Speaker 1: us or a question, our email is Manny Noah Devin
Speaker 1: at gmail dot com, or you can leave us a
Speaker 1: voicemail by calling the number in our show notes. If
Speaker 1: you like this episode, please go to a five star
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Speaker 1: drop a link in your family group chick, I promise
Speaker 1: you'll enjoy it, Thanks, and who will be back next week?
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