1 00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:13,200 Speaker 1: Hi guys, and welcome to a new episode of Couch 2 00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:16,400 Speaker 1: Talks on You Need Therapy Podcast. My name is Kat, 3 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:20,280 Speaker 1: I'm the host, and if you are new, couch Talks 4 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:23,360 Speaker 1: is the special bonus episode of You Need Therapy where 5 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:27,080 Speaker 1: I answer questions that listeners send to me through email 6 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:29,960 Speaker 1: and you can send those two Catherine at You Need 7 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 1: Therapy podcast dot com. Now a little reminder before we 8 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:36,400 Speaker 1: get started, because I am answering your questions this week, 9 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:39,559 Speaker 1: so sometimes it can be a little confusing that although 10 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:43,240 Speaker 1: I'm answering your questions, this podcast does not ever serve 11 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:46,600 Speaker 1: as a substitute or a placement for any actual mental 12 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:50,519 Speaker 1: health services, although it's allowed to help you in whatever 13 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 1: space you're in. I usually answer one question a week, 14 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 1: and that's what we're going to do today. And I 15 00:00:56,680 --> 00:00:59,160 Speaker 1: have a lot to stay on this question, so we're 16 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 1: going to bypass any extra things that I just really 17 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:05,479 Speaker 1: want to talk about today, including my Harry Potter update. 18 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:07,920 Speaker 1: Don't worry, you'll get one next week. Um, and we're 19 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:11,480 Speaker 1: gonna get right to the question. So another reminder, I 20 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:14,920 Speaker 1: like to keep these questions anonymous so you can feel 21 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 1: safe sending in whatever you want to send in I'm 22 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:20,200 Speaker 1: not going to read your name or your email address 23 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 1: or anything like that, and the only reason anybody would 24 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 1: know what was from you is because you told them. 25 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:29,560 Speaker 1: So let's get into this question. Hey, kat I love 26 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:32,679 Speaker 1: your podcasts, especially as I'm finding them in a really 27 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:38,320 Speaker 1: trying time as a studying therapist. I'm finding terminations extremely difficult, 28 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 1: especially when there's so little context. What guidance can you 29 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 1: give me to not take it so personally and to 30 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:48,200 Speaker 1: find closure on my part? Okay, So, what I think 31 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 1: this listener is referring to is terminations between clients and therapists, 32 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 1: which is a fancy way to allude to the ending 33 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 1: of a therapeutic relationship. And I think the word terminations 34 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:02,840 Speaker 1: as a very negative connotation to it, like it feels 35 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 1: like scary and dark and bad, when in reality, they 36 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:09,119 Speaker 1: can happen for all kinds of reasons that are sometimes 37 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 1: even just neutral. So if this question was not talking 38 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:14,600 Speaker 1: about that, I'm sorry, but this is going to be 39 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 1: a really helpful episode talking about what that is and 40 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 1: how to move through it for those of you who 41 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 1: maybe have that in their head. Let's first start what 42 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:24,959 Speaker 1: could determination like, why would there be a termination? Let's 43 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:27,520 Speaker 1: talk about some of the reasons. This is not a 44 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:30,919 Speaker 1: complete list of reasons. These are just some. A client 45 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 1: could move, a client could need care outside of your scope. 46 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:37,960 Speaker 1: A client maybe crosses a boundary of a therapist and 47 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:41,920 Speaker 1: so the therapist needs to terminate the relationship, or a 48 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:44,600 Speaker 1: therapist crosses a boundary with the client, so the client 49 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:47,919 Speaker 1: needs to terminate that relationship. Maybe the client just wants 50 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 1: a new therapist, and it could be a million different reasons. 51 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:54,720 Speaker 1: Maybe the client has reached the goals that they set 52 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 1: with that therapist and they want to maybe pause therapy 53 00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:00,040 Speaker 1: or just stop therapy altogether. They don't really want to 54 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:02,600 Speaker 1: go anymore. Or maybe a client ghost you and you 55 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 1: have no idea, right, and this happens to everybody, just 56 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:09,079 Speaker 1: like in dating, And it doesn't mean you did anything wrong, 57 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:12,519 Speaker 1: which I think is really important. Every therapist is going 58 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 1: to be ghosted more than one time in their career, 59 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:18,239 Speaker 1: and if they tell you that they haven't, then that's 60 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:21,359 Speaker 1: very confusing to me. They might be lyne, which we'll 61 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 1: get into. So depending on the reason, how you go 62 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:29,680 Speaker 1: about kind of sitting with and processing that experience might 63 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 1: be different. This listener sounds like they were looking for 64 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:35,880 Speaker 1: guidance on how to not take something personally. So I 65 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:38,120 Speaker 1: wonder if they're referring to when a client just wants 66 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 1: to stop therapy and they don't really have a specific reason, 67 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:44,960 Speaker 1: or they want a different therapist, or they ghost to you. Now, 68 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 1: like I said in the beginning, I have a lot 69 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 1: to say on this topic, so some stuff might end 70 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:52,800 Speaker 1: up feeling like it contradicts itself. That is because there's 71 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 1: a lot of both. And in this subject, for example, 72 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:58,400 Speaker 1: it's not about us and it can teach us something 73 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:01,080 Speaker 1: about ourselves at the same time. That's a big one, 74 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:03,960 Speaker 1: and so I'm not trying to contradict it myself. I 75 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:06,800 Speaker 1: just think there's a lot of things happening all at 76 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:10,839 Speaker 1: once in these experiences. So before I say anything else here, 77 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:15,320 Speaker 1: I want to encourage anyone who relates to this to 78 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:19,880 Speaker 1: stop and recognize their own experience. Here. I want you 79 00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:22,520 Speaker 1: to recognize the human part of you, because yes, you're 80 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:25,479 Speaker 1: a therapist, and that requires us to kind of put 81 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:28,240 Speaker 1: on hold some of our own personal feelings. But we 82 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:30,279 Speaker 1: can't just get rid of those. So I want you 83 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:33,479 Speaker 1: to recognize what's even going on. Even if I have 84 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 1: boundaries and I in quotes to know that things aren't 85 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 1: always about me. I'm still going to probably have feelings 86 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:43,720 Speaker 1: about the ending of a relationship like this, So I 87 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:48,239 Speaker 1: would encourage some extra supervision or even a therapy session 88 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:51,279 Speaker 1: with your therapist centered around this. What does it bring 89 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:53,839 Speaker 1: up in me when this happens. What are the assumptions 90 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:56,200 Speaker 1: that come to my mind? What are the feelings that 91 00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:58,719 Speaker 1: come up and the thoughts that then float in my head? 92 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 1: Talk about this stuff, and therapists should talk about this 93 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 1: stuff with other therapists. I think that is so helpful, 94 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:08,359 Speaker 1: and we need to know that we're not alone in 95 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:11,840 Speaker 1: this experience. I'm not the only one who goes through 96 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:15,720 Speaker 1: tough terminations. I am a person too, and processing these 97 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 1: things allows me to show up as a better therapist. 98 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:22,280 Speaker 1: And if you ever hear, like I said before, if 99 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:24,360 Speaker 1: you ever hear therapists say that they've never had clients 100 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 1: ghosts them, or that they've never had feelings about a 101 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:31,200 Speaker 1: client ghosting them, they're most likely lying, So go find 102 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 1: somebody else to talk to, which there's probably a reason 103 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 1: that they're lying. Right. We don't just lie for fun, 104 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:39,839 Speaker 1: even though sometimes it feels that way. The more insecure 105 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 1: we are about something, the more we feel like we 106 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:44,640 Speaker 1: have to protect a thing we're insecure about. So I'm 107 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 1: a human, it only makes sense that I have feelings 108 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 1: that come up when a client decides to just never 109 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:53,040 Speaker 1: answer my email again, especially if I thought that relationship 110 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:56,279 Speaker 1: was going well, or especially if maybe I'm I feel 111 00:05:56,279 --> 00:05:57,840 Speaker 1: like we had a tough session that I never hear 112 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:00,160 Speaker 1: them again. Those both can bring up very different things things, 113 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:03,840 Speaker 1: and I've experienced both of those things where I think 114 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:06,600 Speaker 1: I had breakthrough and then my client cancels the next 115 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:09,520 Speaker 1: session and never answers an email, and when I feel 116 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:12,160 Speaker 1: like we've had a really rocky session and I really 117 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:14,520 Speaker 1: wasn't on my a game and I never hear from them. 118 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 1: I had feelings with both of those experiences, and they 119 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:20,279 Speaker 1: brought up very different things in me. And so the 120 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 1: shame part of me says, don't talk about that high 121 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:24,720 Speaker 1: that make sure everybody knows that you're great at what 122 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 1: you do and that you're awesome man, blah blah bah 123 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:28,479 Speaker 1: bah blah blah, bah bah blah blah blah. But the 124 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:30,680 Speaker 1: human part of me, the part that really takes on 125 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:36,200 Speaker 1: this healthy shame humility side, says, Huh, I'm having stuff 126 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 1: come up in me, I need help. I'm having stuff 127 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 1: come up in me. I'm not perfect. It's okay to 128 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:43,920 Speaker 1: share it because the more I share, the more I 129 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:46,359 Speaker 1: can release some of that toxic shame. And being a 130 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 1: good therapist means you can recognize you are limited, which 131 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:52,840 Speaker 1: is so important. I think sometimes people think being a 132 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:56,159 Speaker 1: good therapist means that you're not limited, But being a 133 00:06:56,200 --> 00:06:59,599 Speaker 1: good therapist means you recognize that you are limited because 134 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:02,840 Speaker 1: we're human, so we're limited and we can't know everything, 135 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 1: which I mean it's part of being a human. We 136 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 1: don't have all the answers, and we don't have the 137 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:09,760 Speaker 1: ability to always be what a client needs or wants. 138 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 1: So rather than just say this is all their stuff, 139 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:14,840 Speaker 1: has nothing to do with me, I'm great, I'm wonderful, 140 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:17,960 Speaker 1: and ignore when this happens, maybe you can say this 141 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 1: has more to do with the client than it has 142 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 1: to do with me. And is there anything I can 143 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 1: learn about myself here? And even if a client does 144 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:29,480 Speaker 1: not have a very emotionally mature way of terminating the relationship, 145 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 1: they might still offer us some stuff to think about. 146 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 1: And I have an example that can help kind of 147 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:37,360 Speaker 1: draw out what I mean. I like I said, I 148 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:41,200 Speaker 1: totally relate to this question, especially early on in my career, 149 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 1: and I definitely can relate to the beginning of me 150 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:48,920 Speaker 1: being a therapist and feeling personally attacked when a client 151 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:50,880 Speaker 1: didn't want to work with me. And I don't know 152 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:52,600 Speaker 1: the last time that I talked about this. I know 153 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 1: I've talked about it on a podcast before, but one 154 00:07:55,200 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 1: of my early on first clients begged, begged, egged, do 155 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 1: you have a different therapist? And it's when I wasn't 156 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:06,920 Speaker 1: working in treatment and clients were assigned therapists, and the 157 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 1: role back then, I think it's probably changed. I have 158 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:11,280 Speaker 1: no idea. I would hope that there was some local 159 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 1: room in this, but back then there was. You couldn't 160 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 1: change therapist there. You had to work through whatever was 161 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:20,680 Speaker 1: coming up, which had its bonuses. And my client did 162 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:24,520 Speaker 1: everything in their power to change therapists, including saying straight 163 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:27,119 Speaker 1: to my face she didn't like me, and including having 164 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:29,760 Speaker 1: meetings with my boss telling her that I wasn't good 165 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 1: to my job and why it wasn't good at it, 166 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:34,440 Speaker 1: and it was tough. I'm not gonna lie, it was 167 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 1: pretty tough. Now. What I know now is clients come 168 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 1: to us to help themselves, not to fulfill a need 169 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 1: in us. Right, it's never truly really about us. But man, 170 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:49,360 Speaker 1: can they make it seem that way. They can really 171 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:51,440 Speaker 1: make it seem like everything is about what we say, 172 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:53,520 Speaker 1: what we do in a good way and a bad way. 173 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 1: They can make it feel like like we've hung the 174 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:58,320 Speaker 1: moon and that we have the power to say all 175 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:00,600 Speaker 1: these amazing things that then change their even make their 176 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 1: life this great, wonderful thing. And they can make it 177 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:04,960 Speaker 1: seem like we have the power to ruin them. And 178 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:08,920 Speaker 1: the truth is, we don't have that much power over anybody. So, 179 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 1: like I said, that client couldn't switch to a new therapist. Therefore, 180 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:16,880 Speaker 1: we got the opportunity to have some very vulnerable conversations 181 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:19,840 Speaker 1: that were very scary to me at the time. And 182 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 1: it turns out there was something that I did. I 183 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:24,840 Speaker 1: said something that hid a nerve in this client. In 184 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:29,760 Speaker 1: the very first session she was having what is called transference. 185 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:32,079 Speaker 1: I said something that hit a nerve in her, reminded 186 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 1: her of a part of her own life, her own 187 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:37,960 Speaker 1: story that she wanted to ignore, disprove, or run away from. 188 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:41,040 Speaker 1: She wasn't trying to have that. I brought something up 189 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:43,880 Speaker 1: in her so it wasn't really about me. It was 190 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:46,200 Speaker 1: about the feelings that were brought up when she was 191 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:49,360 Speaker 1: with me. It was her stuff saying danger, danger when 192 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 1: there really wasn't any danger. And it's not that I 193 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:55,000 Speaker 1: said anything wrong, it's what that meant to her. But 194 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 1: just because I necessarily didn't do anything wrong and this 195 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:01,560 Speaker 1: was about the client's own experience and feelings, doesn't mean 196 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 1: that I didn't learn something. And I learned a lot 197 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:06,160 Speaker 1: about rapport building with clients. Again, it's not that I 198 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:08,440 Speaker 1: did something wrong or that I was bad, but I 199 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:10,679 Speaker 1: got a first hand look on how different clients may 200 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:13,720 Speaker 1: need different approaches and how to recognize that. And I 201 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:16,960 Speaker 1: got to really look at how I wanted my clients 202 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 1: to see me versus how much I was really allowing 203 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:24,240 Speaker 1: the client to show me what they needed. Also, I 204 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:26,679 Speaker 1: got to practice making a repair with a client, which 205 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:30,440 Speaker 1: is also scary and hard, and I learned about humility 206 00:10:30,559 --> 00:10:34,560 Speaker 1: and that experience and how necessary humility is in that 207 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:37,760 Speaker 1: therapeutic relationship, because I think a lot of times we 208 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 1: think we have to show up as very powerful and 209 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:42,240 Speaker 1: we actually just need to show up as really human. 210 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:46,320 Speaker 1: So sometimes that is the case. Sometimes it's not that deep. 211 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 1: Sometimes a client just wants a different therapist, maybe one 212 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:57,560 Speaker 1: that's older than them, maybe one that's the same major 213 00:10:57,559 --> 00:11:00,600 Speaker 1: as them. Maybe they want to feel are similar to 214 00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:03,240 Speaker 1: their therapist, or they want to feel really different, and 215 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:05,600 Speaker 1: that can be a host of reasons, and they don't 216 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:08,760 Speaker 1: really go super deep, but it still is about that 217 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:12,080 Speaker 1: the client. I personally, one time saw a therapist. I 218 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:15,200 Speaker 1: saw her once and then I canceled my next session 219 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 1: and I didn't reschedule. And I did that because I 220 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:21,679 Speaker 1: wanted the therapist that was more seasoned. It wasn't necessarily 221 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 1: that I thought she was bad, but I was a 222 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:28,079 Speaker 1: licensed therapist at the time looking for a new therapist, 223 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:30,480 Speaker 1: and she was just out of her internship, so she 224 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:33,599 Speaker 1: like literally had just graduated, and I really wanted a 225 00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:35,880 Speaker 1: space where I didn't have to worry about thinking that 226 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:39,480 Speaker 1: I knew more than my therapist. I made assumptions about 227 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:42,160 Speaker 1: her based on what I knew, and based on what 228 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:45,280 Speaker 1: I knew about my experience of being a therapist and 229 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 1: how I grew as a therapist. I didn't really know 230 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 1: anything about her except that she was a new therapist. 231 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:53,400 Speaker 1: She could have been exactly what I needed. She could 232 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:56,400 Speaker 1: have been a better therapist than me. That's the thing 233 00:11:56,440 --> 00:12:00,160 Speaker 1: that we can way and judge. She didn't do anything wrong, 234 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:03,640 Speaker 1: and I didn't even have enough information about her to 235 00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 1: make a valid judgment about who and what she is, 236 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:09,120 Speaker 1: So there's really nothing to make of it for her. 237 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:12,440 Speaker 1: Other people only have the power to tell us what 238 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:14,960 Speaker 1: and who we are unless we give them that power. 239 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:18,280 Speaker 1: She didn't need to give me any power in that situation, 240 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 1: so not about her, about my stuff. Also, she can 241 00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 1: learn something about that experience if she did give me 242 00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:28,000 Speaker 1: a lot of power and she really took it very personally. 243 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 1: It's kind of like dating, right, So therapists aren't going 244 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:32,960 Speaker 1: to be for everyone. That doesn't mean that there is 245 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:35,120 Speaker 1: a reason, and that doesn't mean that we have to 246 00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:38,200 Speaker 1: find that reason then fix ourselves. Sometimes it just means 247 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:42,000 Speaker 1: compatibility is a thing, and not being compatible with somebody 248 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:45,440 Speaker 1: doesn't mean that you're doing something wrong. Might mean that 249 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:48,319 Speaker 1: you're just being yourself and you can't be for everybody. 250 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:51,840 Speaker 1: Something else that might help in this area is remembering 251 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:54,959 Speaker 1: that we see the world through our lens and everyone 252 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 1: else sees the world through their lens, and nobody, not 253 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:03,680 Speaker 1: one person has the exact same lens, and no one. 254 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:08,040 Speaker 1: Not one single person has the perfect or right lens. 255 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 1: Therapists are not God's We are not better than the 256 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 1: average person. We aren't the center of any clients work, 257 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:18,200 Speaker 1: and we aren't the center of any clients world. When 258 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:20,760 Speaker 1: I started my first internship, I was given this book 259 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:23,840 Speaker 1: called the Four Agreements, and one of the parts of 260 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:28,120 Speaker 1: that book, one of the agreements is don't take things personally. 261 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:31,360 Speaker 1: And I want to read you something that comes directly 262 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:33,720 Speaker 1: from that books. I think it's really helpful in this situation, 263 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:37,960 Speaker 1: and like every situation, but it says, whatever happens around you, 264 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:41,520 Speaker 1: don't take it personally. Nothing other people do is because 265 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:46,000 Speaker 1: of you. It's because of themselves. All people live in 266 00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:49,080 Speaker 1: their own dream, in their own mind. They're in a 267 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:52,560 Speaker 1: completely different world than the one we live in. When 268 00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:55,760 Speaker 1: we take something personally, we make the assumption that they 269 00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:58,120 Speaker 1: know what is in our world, and we try to 270 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:01,319 Speaker 1: impose our world on their world. I don't even know 271 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 1: how to put into words how much I love this, 272 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:06,840 Speaker 1: the simple part. Nothing other people do is because of you, 273 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:10,240 Speaker 1: it's because of themselves. It's one of those thoughts that like, 274 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:11,960 Speaker 1: if you really sit with it, you can just like 275 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:15,120 Speaker 1: go in circles in your brain. When people do things, 276 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:18,320 Speaker 1: When when clients leave us, when partners leave us. We're 277 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:21,960 Speaker 1: all doing things because of ourselves. We're not living our 278 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 1: lives based on other people. And even when we think 279 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:28,680 Speaker 1: we're doing that, we're also doing that for ourselves because 280 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:31,200 Speaker 1: it's the need we need to fulfill on ourselves. So 281 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:34,160 Speaker 1: it's pretty wild to think about, and it's also so 282 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:40,400 Speaker 1: relieving that, Gosh, I don't have to always be so 283 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:45,280 Speaker 1: mindful of the why behind every other person's what. I 284 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:47,920 Speaker 1: don't always have to do that. Sometimes that's important, but 285 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 1: I need to be really mindful around the why in 286 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 1: my what, because I'm if I'm hyper focusing on why 287 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 1: a client left me or what I did wrong so 288 00:14:56,840 --> 00:15:00,160 Speaker 1: I could fix this relationship, then I'm missing out on 289 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:02,960 Speaker 1: really the point of being a therapist. In this book, 290 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:04,600 Speaker 1: I just want to say, real quick, it was a 291 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:08,720 Speaker 1: game changing book. I recommended to everybody the four agreements. 292 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 1: And the four agreements real quick are being impeccable with 293 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:14,560 Speaker 1: your word, don't take things personally, don't make assumptions, and 294 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:17,440 Speaker 1: always do your best. So if you're interested in reading that, 295 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:20,640 Speaker 1: highly recommend. But like I was saying, you're missing out 296 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:23,360 Speaker 1: on like the best part of being a therapist, and 297 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 1: I learned really early on. I think a lot of 298 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 1: us do, that being a good therapist was very important 299 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 1: to me. But I assumed that being a good therapist 300 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:36,120 Speaker 1: meant that my clients just really liked me, and that 301 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:38,360 Speaker 1: being a good therapist is that I always got good 302 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:42,680 Speaker 1: feedback about myself from my clients. And pretty soon I 303 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:45,800 Speaker 1: had to decide what was more important being liked by 304 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 1: my clients and being able to hear those things I 305 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:50,960 Speaker 1: wanted to hear from them, or doing my job, and 306 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 1: I reluctantly at times chose I it was more important 307 00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 1: for me to be able to do my job, which 308 00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:00,680 Speaker 1: comes with not being liked all the time, not hearing 309 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:02,960 Speaker 1: the things that we want to hear sometimes, and that 310 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:06,280 Speaker 1: can be really hard when you leave a day of 311 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:10,040 Speaker 1: sitting with clients, and sometimes it feels like we were 312 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:12,600 Speaker 1: gonna got punched in the gut that we didn't get 313 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:15,440 Speaker 1: affirmation that we might want to hear in our lives, 314 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:17,440 Speaker 1: or we might feel because of something that's going on 315 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:20,560 Speaker 1: in us. And it's not easy to say things to 316 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:23,440 Speaker 1: people that they don't want to hear. We don't have 317 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 1: the luxury if we're choosing to do our job, well, 318 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:28,960 Speaker 1: we don't have the luxury to sugarcoat things. So I 319 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:31,760 Speaker 1: learned I needed help, I needed places, and I need 320 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:34,320 Speaker 1: people to process my own emotions so I could do 321 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:39,040 Speaker 1: my job. And maybe that's what you're needing. Maybe that's 322 00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 1: what's going to help you be able to not take 323 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:44,880 Speaker 1: these things so personally, a place where you can process 324 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:48,160 Speaker 1: this and really allow what's coming up to come up. 325 00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:50,720 Speaker 1: I bet some of my best moments as a therapist 326 00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:54,800 Speaker 1: just included me like planting seeds, which means that I'll 327 00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:57,840 Speaker 1: never really see the fruit of that work. And those 328 00:16:57,880 --> 00:17:01,000 Speaker 1: people where I planted those seeds, they I never know 329 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 1: that I'm the one that planted the seed or even 330 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:06,040 Speaker 1: want to recognize it, which means that I also might 331 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:08,480 Speaker 1: not know what I actually am doing. I just have 332 00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:11,240 Speaker 1: to trust that there's some good out there that I'm doing. 333 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:15,520 Speaker 1: And I could go on about this forever. This is 334 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:19,080 Speaker 1: something that has been really important to to talk about 335 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 1: and process and look at in my own life as 336 00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 1: a therapist, which then bled into my personal life, and 337 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:27,199 Speaker 1: I think that it's something that Yeah, I think this 338 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:29,400 Speaker 1: listener is kind of hitting it all on the head. 339 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:33,080 Speaker 1: There's not a lot of work done around this situation 340 00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:36,560 Speaker 1: in school and early on, but it's something that every 341 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:40,240 Speaker 1: therapist is going to bump up against more than once. So, 342 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:43,840 Speaker 1: like always, I hope this was helpful. I hope it 343 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:45,440 Speaker 1: brought up some stuff in you that is going to 344 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:48,280 Speaker 1: lead you to getting whatever it is you need in 345 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:51,120 Speaker 1: this area. And I hope you, guys have the day 346 00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:53,840 Speaker 1: you need to have. You can follow me on Instagram 347 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 1: at Cat dot de fata and at You Need Therapy podcast, 348 00:17:57,160 --> 00:17:59,879 Speaker 1: And if you have questions yourself, of course, remember you 349 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 1: and send them to Catherine at You Need Therapy Podcast 350 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:06,159 Speaker 1: and maybe one day your question will end up on 351 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:10,359 Speaker 1: an episode. I also appreciate follow up questions from questions 352 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:12,240 Speaker 1: that I've answered. So if this brought up some stuff 353 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:14,439 Speaker 1: and you and made you think of something, send it 354 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:18,600 Speaker 1: my way. This situation, I mean termination, we could also 355 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:22,000 Speaker 1: call it like breakups, right, So if anything has come 356 00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:27,760 Speaker 1: up around relationships, whether they're friendships, personal family members, romantic partners, 357 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:31,160 Speaker 1: work relationships, if anything came up with that, send those 358 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:34,440 Speaker 1: questions my way. I love reading them, I love answering them, 359 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:36,600 Speaker 1: and I just like this way of being connected to 360 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:38,840 Speaker 1: you guys. So send them my way. Thank you for 361 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:41,280 Speaker 1: being here again. I'm gonna say it, have the day 362 00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:43,040 Speaker 1: you need to have, and I'll talk to you again 363 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:43,600 Speaker 1: on Monday.