1 00:00:01,360 --> 00:00:05,920 Speaker 1: Warning. This episode contains references to violence and domestic abuse. 2 00:00:06,559 --> 00:00:24,800 Speaker 1: Please use discretion when listening. I'm sitting in MARISAA Martinez's 3 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 1: living room and my hands are starting to sweat. Marisa 4 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 1: has been kind enough to invite me into her home 5 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:34,199 Speaker 1: and sit down with me for over two hours to 6 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 1: talk about some of the worst moments in salvador In history. 7 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:41,159 Speaker 1: And now I have to ask her a question that 8 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:45,559 Speaker 1: I know she won't like, but it's the question that 9 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:46,840 Speaker 1: I really came here to ask. 10 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:56,680 Speaker 2: Mira Amirista sorel it. 11 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:07,360 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I tell her, but I have to ask 12 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:11,360 Speaker 1: about your brother, but she cuts me off. She knows 13 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:16,320 Speaker 1: the question is coming. She points me to the internet 14 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:18,399 Speaker 1: to all of the other interviews that she's done in 15 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:21,920 Speaker 1: the past about him. I can't help but wonder what 16 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:25,200 Speaker 1: it's like to be in her position, to be the 17 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:31,320 Speaker 1: sister of someone who's infamous. It's no coincidence that Marisa 18 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:35,119 Speaker 1: goes by her married name, the Martinez, and not her 19 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:36,920 Speaker 1: maiden name, Dauison. 20 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 3: He's been called a killer, a gangster, a psychopath. Major 21 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 3: Roberto d'abisson has come from the shadows to emerge as 22 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 3: the country's new strong man, A man whose solutions to 23 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:53,400 Speaker 3: the problems of El Salvador is to liquidate the communists. 24 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 1: Roberto Dabison is one of the most infamous men in 25 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:02,280 Speaker 1: salvador In history. He's the founder of one of the 26 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:06,680 Speaker 1: country's biggest political parties, he was the leader of one 27 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:10,520 Speaker 1: of the country's most notorious death squads, and he's also 28 00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:13,600 Speaker 1: the person that the UN says was responsible for the 29 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:15,480 Speaker 1: murder of Archbishop Romero. 30 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 4: These two cables are both from the American Embassy in 31 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:24,840 Speaker 4: El Salvador, and it discusses a meeting during which Roberto 32 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:29,480 Speaker 4: do Buisson plans the murder of Archbishop Romero. 33 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:45,120 Speaker 1: I'm Jasmine Romero, and this is sacred scandal. Nation of Saints, 34 00:02:47,320 --> 00:03:04,360 Speaker 1: episode three, The Executioner. When I was a kid, I 35 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 1: was terrified of El Kukui, that's the Salvadoran version of 36 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:13,120 Speaker 1: the boogeyman. I would stay up at night staring into 37 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 1: the dark corners of my room, certain that at any 38 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:19,239 Speaker 1: moment Ilkukui would come out of the darkness and take 39 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:22,400 Speaker 1: me away to punish me for being mean to my 40 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 1: sisters or for talking back to my mom. It's very 41 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 1: common for Salvadoran moms to say that's the kind of 42 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 1: person that Roberto Dawison is for El Salvador, a larger 43 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:42,839 Speaker 1: than life creature, a boogeyman who would come under cover 44 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 1: of darkness and punish you for your sins. In the 45 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 1: same way that Oscar Romero was a symbol for the Church, 46 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 1: that Wi Son became a symbol for the military and 47 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:57,040 Speaker 1: the lengths to which it would go in the name 48 00:03:57,080 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 1: of stopping communism. Dawison is commonly called Il Major ra 49 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 1: Wison because he started his career as a military officer. 50 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 1: He was only sixteen when he enrolled in military school, 51 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 1: and by nineteen he was a member of the National Guard. 52 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 1: Light skinned and charismatic, Lawuison rose through the ranks, and 53 00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:24,600 Speaker 1: by nineteen seventy two he was chosen to train at 54 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 1: the United States School of the Americas. 55 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 5: According to the Pentagon, the mission of the school is 56 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 5: to train the armed forces of Latin America, promote military professionalism, 57 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:41,960 Speaker 5: foster cooperation among multinational military forces, and to expand the 58 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:46,240 Speaker 5: trainees knowledge of United States customs and traditions. 59 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:52,440 Speaker 1: That's Susan Sarandon narrating a documentary about the school. The 60 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 1: School of the Americas was created by the United States 61 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 1: in nineteen forty six, with the specific purpose of training 62 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 1: the future MI military officers of Latin America. After the 63 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:08,160 Speaker 1: Cuban Revolution. JFK ordered that the school focus on teaching 64 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 1: anti communist counterinsurgency. They taught cadets that the enemy was 65 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:18,279 Speaker 1: within their own people and that any suspected Communist was 66 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 1: a traitor to their country. When Congress later declassified training 67 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:27,479 Speaker 1: manuals from the school, they included tactics for torture, blackmail, extortion, 68 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:34,640 Speaker 1: and neutralization a euphemism for unsanctioned murder. Here's former US 69 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:37,360 Speaker 1: Congressman Joseph Moakley testifying about the school. 70 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:45,400 Speaker 6: Every time there was a heinous killing, Al sawaras somebody 71 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:50,359 Speaker 6: that was past graduate of the School of America. 72 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:52,839 Speaker 1: To call the School of the Americas the School for 73 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:59,280 Speaker 1: Dictators is not an exaggeration. Literally, eleven Latin American dictators 74 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:04,720 Speaker 1: were graduates of the school. Over sixty thousand military officers 75 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:07,840 Speaker 1: have graduated from the academy and gone on to run 76 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 1: operations across Latin America, and despite years of protests calling 77 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:18,239 Speaker 1: for its closure, the school still exists. It's now called 78 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:23,840 Speaker 1: the Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation WINSC for short, 79 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:26,919 Speaker 1: and it's used to train border patrol and ICE agents 80 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 1: on how to run raids on American cities. Roberto Dawison's sister, 81 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:38,719 Speaker 1: Marisa says that it's his time at the School of 82 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 1: the Americas that really formed her brother's mindset. 83 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 2: Not the way I see for na Viti made la 84 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 2: formasion the defense a lacinteress North americanos perroue for malo pres. 85 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:58,359 Speaker 1: Marisa says that her brother came back from school in 86 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:01,680 Speaker 1: the nineteen seventies, right around the time when the students 87 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:04,920 Speaker 1: and unions were protesting and being shot at by President 88 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 1: Romero's military, So maybe it's not surprising that Dauison was 89 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:14,320 Speaker 1: convinced that communists were taking over his country. 90 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 2: Parentonce de Graciamente ban Communistato. 91 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 1: And he was hell bent on stopping them. Highly educated 92 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:29,040 Speaker 1: and charismatic Dauison was given a special task by his 93 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 1: superiors in the military extract information, by any means necessary, 94 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:39,760 Speaker 1: find out who the Communists are in every city, town, 95 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 1: and village in the country. Noauisan would go on to 96 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:48,960 Speaker 1: train groups of soldiers to kidnap, torture, extort, and murder 97 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:55,040 Speaker 1: to get the information they needed. These groups became known 98 00:07:55,320 --> 00:08:03,680 Speaker 1: as Los Esquadron the death squads, But even within the 99 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 1: Salvadorn military that Weuison's fervor against communists was extreme, so 100 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 1: extreme that he was seen as a liability by the 101 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 1: other more centrist members of the government, and he was 102 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 1: kicked out of the Salvadoran military in nineteen seventy nine. 103 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:23,240 Speaker 1: When he heard that his time was up, he stole 104 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:30,880 Speaker 1: a cash of military documents and fled to Guatemala. But 105 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:34,439 Speaker 1: the Salvadorn oligarchy wasn't ready to let go of thata Wison. 106 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 1: In him, they saw the perfect mouthpiece, someone whose ideology 107 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 1: aligned with theirs and who wasn't worried about operating within 108 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 1: the limits of the law. With funding from some of 109 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 1: El Salvador's wealthiest families, that we Sun would videotape himself 110 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 1: from his exiled place in Guatemala, giving speeches denouncing the 111 00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:59,880 Speaker 1: state of things in El Salvador, talking about how subversives 112 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 1: would ruin the country and naming those who he believed 113 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:05,720 Speaker 1: were responsible for the communist. 114 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:09,080 Speaker 7: Revolution, estes forreste. 115 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 8: Merio, pour quatro. 116 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 6: And pais. 117 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 1: Those tapes were then flown back to El Salvador and 118 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:28,920 Speaker 1: broadcast on national TV. Those he named often went missing 119 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:35,520 Speaker 1: or turned up dead shortly after he named them. It 120 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:38,320 Speaker 1: was in those broadcasts that though we saw named one 121 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 1: of his biggest targets the church. This was in the 122 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:46,320 Speaker 1: years leading up to the assassination of Oscar Romero. The 123 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:51,680 Speaker 1: priests had become symbols of the enemy. Those TV broadcasts 124 00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:57,560 Speaker 1: are where he popularized the phrase aga patria matankura be 125 00:09:57,679 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 1: a patriot, kill a priest. 126 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 7: Who's there. 127 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:07,559 Speaker 1: Recuerda is the Estevan district, wuendo papeless and agapatri matancura. 128 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 8: See the wild is a list of the wissta twas 129 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:25,359 Speaker 8: agapatria matancura econ listing man the most total of criminalists. 130 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:30,640 Speaker 1: Second win Father says he remembers seeing flyers out in 131 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:36,240 Speaker 1: the street printed with the phrase agapatria matancura. Below it 132 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:39,960 Speaker 1: was a list of names of almost forty priests from 133 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 1: all over the country, including his name. 134 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:52,920 Speaker 8: See est Sanchez. 135 00:10:53,760 --> 00:11:04,319 Speaker 9: Grandeta, Rutilio Sanchez, Rutilio, Rerande. 136 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:12,320 Speaker 1: Octaviortis all priests who were killed. Those flyers were scattered 137 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:16,360 Speaker 1: all over cities by men in helicopters who would open 138 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:19,160 Speaker 1: the doors mid flight and rein them onto the streets. 139 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 2: Rampapelea, Hello, helicopteros agapatria matrio madame curac e f. 140 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:33,320 Speaker 1: This slogan was brought to life on March twenty fourth 141 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:38,679 Speaker 1: of nineteen eighty when Oscar Romero was assassinated. That we 142 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:42,079 Speaker 1: sn had personally named him in a TV appearance just 143 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:46,959 Speaker 1: that week. When the archbishop was gunned down, everyone suspected 144 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 1: it was the work of thatuison and his death squads, 145 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:54,679 Speaker 1: but there was no proof, that is until the Sadavia Diary. 146 00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:09,719 Speaker 1: That's after the Break. Six weeks after Romero's assassination, a 147 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 1: group of men gather at a plantation in the Salvadoran mountains. 148 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:17,360 Speaker 1: They're discussing strategy, going over how many weapons they have 149 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:21,880 Speaker 1: stashed and when to execute their plan. There are documents 150 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:26,400 Speaker 1: scattered everywhere, including one titled how to carry out a 151 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:30,360 Speaker 1: political coup in El Salvador, which is exactly what these 152 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 1: men are doing. Their leader, il Major himself thrower to 153 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:40,520 Speaker 1: the La Wisson, but the meeting is cut short when 154 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 1: a squad of soldiers burst through the door. The men 155 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:47,440 Speaker 1: try to flee, some of them try to eat the papers, 156 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:57,560 Speaker 1: but one by one they're arrested. In the days after 157 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:02,560 Speaker 1: the Salvadoran government will examine troph of documents, and there's 158 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 1: one in particular that will draw their interest. It's a 159 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:09,440 Speaker 1: page from a book belonging to a red headed army 160 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:15,079 Speaker 1: captain named Alvaro Saravia. The book is Sadavia's daddio, his 161 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:20,240 Speaker 1: day planner. Most of the entries are mundane appointments, but 162 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 1: there's one page in a strange handwriting. It contains a 163 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:29,960 Speaker 1: list of items one starlight scope, one two fifty seven 164 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:36,960 Speaker 1: Roberts rifle, four automatic rifles, grenades, and below a list 165 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:45,000 Speaker 1: of personnel one driver, one shooter for security. This list 166 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:49,200 Speaker 1: is believed to be the instructions for Archbishop Romero's murder. 167 00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:59,599 Speaker 1: You'd think that evidence like this would be damning, or 168 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:02,560 Speaker 1: at least it would put a stop to his political ambitions. 169 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:06,679 Speaker 1: I mean, the man was literally caught planning a coup. 170 00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:11,439 Speaker 1: He titled his coup plot like a middle schooler, but 171 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:16,320 Speaker 1: it didn't even slow him down. While imprisoned, that Wei 172 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:20,320 Speaker 1: soon called every powerful ally he had made, all those 173 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:23,760 Speaker 1: rich oligarchs that had been funding his TV broadcasts, made 174 00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:30,840 Speaker 1: a huge stink about thatauison being imprisoned. He's released almost immediately, 175 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:37,120 Speaker 1: and all those documents that were confiscated are buried. Nouison 176 00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:40,560 Speaker 1: goes off and continues operating his death squads with impunity. 177 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:46,320 Speaker 1: At this point, everyone is aware of these operations, including 178 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:47,840 Speaker 1: the United States government. 179 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 10: Roberto d'abisson planned and ordered the murder of Archbishop of 180 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 10: Oscar Romero. The evidence we have eyewitness accounts of this. 181 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:04,400 Speaker 10: He is a leader of the death squads. 182 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:09,520 Speaker 1: That's Robert White, the US ambassador to El Salvador under 183 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:15,320 Speaker 1: President Jimmy Carter. Carter was aware of the human rights abuses, 184 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 1: but he was also deeply concerned about the rise of 185 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:24,000 Speaker 1: communism in Latin America. Just next door to El Salvador, Nicaragua, 186 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:27,040 Speaker 1: San Denista movement had overthrown the military government in a 187 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:31,240 Speaker 1: communist revolt. Carter worried that El Salvador would be the 188 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:35,360 Speaker 1: next Domino to fall, in part because by nineteen eighty 189 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:38,280 Speaker 1: the FMLN, the Armed Resistance that we mentioned in the 190 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:44,000 Speaker 1: last episode, had officially declared war against the government. So 191 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:47,960 Speaker 1: Carter was caught between two imperatives. Stopped the spread of 192 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:52,160 Speaker 1: communism and stopped the human rights abuses in El Salvador. 193 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 1: The Carter administration would compromise by sending what it called 194 00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:01,840 Speaker 1: non lethal aid to El Salvador, like jeeps and helicopters, 195 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 1: and they definitely wanted nothing to do with someone like that. 196 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:11,320 Speaker 1: We saw. Here's Ambassador Robert White again. 197 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:18,080 Speaker 10: The Carter administration felt so strong about Roberto Dalbie's son's 198 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:23,880 Speaker 10: death squad activities that we classified him as a terrorist. 199 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:28,400 Speaker 10: We took away his fists, We denied him entrance into 200 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 10: the United States Embassy. We made him a pariah as 201 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 10: far as our acceptance goes. 202 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:39,320 Speaker 1: But in nineteen eighty one, a new US president was elected, 203 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:43,120 Speaker 1: one who had very different ideas on how to deal 204 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 1: with El Salvador. Ronald Reagan. 205 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:51,200 Speaker 11: Central America is a region of great importance to the 206 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 11: United States, and it is so close. Sam Salvador is 207 00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:59,400 Speaker 11: closer to Houston, Texas than Houston is to Washington, d C. 208 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:06,080 Speaker 1: Rather than distance themselves from Dauison, Reagan's administration pulled him closer. 209 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:08,040 Speaker 1: Here's Robert White again. 210 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:13,840 Speaker 10: The Reaga administration came in, rehabilitated him, issued him a visa, 211 00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:17,040 Speaker 10: made him a welcome guest in the embassy. He was 212 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:23,000 Speaker 10: constantly being entertained by our high ranking visitors. In a 213 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:28,040 Speaker 10: very real sense. The Reaga administration created Roberto Dalwison the 214 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 10: political leader. 215 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:35,360 Speaker 1: They thought, hey, maybe we can shape this guy into 216 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:40,880 Speaker 1: someone we can use, and Roberto Dauison seized the opportunity. 217 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:44,639 Speaker 1: With the support of his new US allies and some 218 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:50,840 Speaker 1: wealthy salvadorn oligarchs, he created his own political party, one 219 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:56,440 Speaker 1: with values modeled directly after the US Republican Party. He 220 00:17:56,600 --> 00:18:01,639 Speaker 1: called it La Lance Republican Nationalista or AREA for short, 221 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 1: a conservative far right party that was pro military with 222 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:28,240 Speaker 1: anti communist aggression written right into its theme song. In 223 00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 1: case you missed it, that lyric was El Salvador will 224 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:34,800 Speaker 1: be the tomb where the Reds come to their end. 225 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:39,040 Speaker 1: With his new political party and the support of the 226 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:41,480 Speaker 1: U S government, that we sn went on to run 227 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:46,640 Speaker 1: for the Constituent Assembly, the Salvadoran version of Congress, and win, 228 00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:51,320 Speaker 1: and pretty soon that we Sawn would be running for 229 00:18:51,400 --> 00:19:22,240 Speaker 1: an even higher office, the Salvadoran presidency. That's after the break. Yeah, 230 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:35,639 Speaker 1: that chant from the crowd was patria patriotism, yes, communism, No, 231 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:38,879 Speaker 1: it's from a rally supporting that we Son's campaign for 232 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:43,640 Speaker 1: the Salvadoran presidency in nineteen eighty four. Just to recap, 233 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:46,800 Speaker 1: this is a man who tried to plot a coup 234 00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:50,120 Speaker 1: and now he's running for president. 235 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:51,320 Speaker 8: Hmmm. 236 00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:55,240 Speaker 1: At this point in his career that we soon felt 237 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:59,920 Speaker 1: really untouchable, and he acted like it. In press conferences, 238 00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 1: he happily bashed the former US ambassador Robert White. 239 00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:07,560 Speaker 3: What do you think of Ambassador Robert White? 240 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:15,040 Speaker 7: A DIPLOMATICA. 241 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:21,480 Speaker 1: He says, I think Robert White is a failed diplomat 242 00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:25,000 Speaker 1: and a sick man. He would go on to say 243 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:27,520 Speaker 1: that all the news of his involvement with the death 244 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:31,480 Speaker 1: squads was something that Robert White made up just to 245 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:32,400 Speaker 1: make him look bad. 246 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:37,160 Speaker 6: Robert White. 247 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:49,400 Speaker 1: In the video, there's a group of guys surrounding that wisawn. 248 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:52,840 Speaker 1: He turns to them and says, are any of you 249 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:57,439 Speaker 1: and death squads? They all laughingly say no. You can 250 00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:03,199 Speaker 1: feel the confidence pouring off of him. But after years 251 00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:07,720 Speaker 1: of trying to work with him, the Reagan administration realized 252 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:10,760 Speaker 1: that he was not the kind of ally they wanted. 253 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:17,440 Speaker 1: After numerous CIA investigations, that Weison had gained a new 254 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:24,560 Speaker 1: nickname among his American friends, Blowtorch Bob. Rumors had spread 255 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:28,240 Speaker 1: that his favorite method of interrogation was to use a 256 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:35,560 Speaker 1: blowtorch on the limbs and genitals of his victims. This 257 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:38,920 Speaker 1: was not the kind of person that the US could control. 258 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:45,720 Speaker 1: The US ended up backing that Wuison's competitor, Napoleon d'orthe. 259 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:50,720 Speaker 1: That Wison lost the nineteen eighty four presidency, but he 260 00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:54,240 Speaker 1: leveraged his national fame into a long career within the 261 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:59,639 Speaker 1: Legislative Assembly, which came with a perk. As a sitting 262 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:04,240 Speaker 1: member of the Legislative Assembly, he was basically immune from prosecution. 263 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:09,200 Speaker 1: In El Salvador. Members of the Assembly can only be 264 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:13,439 Speaker 1: charged by the Assembly itself, not by the justice system, 265 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:18,000 Speaker 1: and with so many of his powerful friends being Assembly members, 266 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 1: that was never going to happen that we saw him. 267 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:28,920 Speaker 1: Was publicly accused of Romero's murder many times, but he 268 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:33,760 Speaker 1: was never charged, not for killing Romero, nor for leading 269 00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:34,960 Speaker 1: several death squads. 270 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:40,679 Speaker 2: Bassan Mosaignos in bernou Chena Maqui Repente now the basis 271 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:44,920 Speaker 2: in Elaango Burgeconi in La Casa Estra Madre. 272 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:50,159 Speaker 1: Marisa didn't speak to her brother for several years. She 273 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:54,520 Speaker 1: would see him on the news on TV. In her mind, 274 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 1: he was still the boy that she had grown up with, 275 00:22:58,080 --> 00:22:59,880 Speaker 1: the brother that she had gotten along with Bess. 276 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:14,879 Speaker 2: But Amir and Germano Therment and cran Is. 277 00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:21,560 Speaker 1: Then she would occasionally run into him at her mother's house. 278 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:25,000 Speaker 1: She remembers one Mother's day in the middle of the 279 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:26,720 Speaker 1: war that left her shaken. 280 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:43,200 Speaker 2: May Medio dia p sanchero. 281 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:47,640 Speaker 12: Hermos Bison pulled up to the house with a full 282 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:53,399 Speaker 12: military entourage with Cherokee trucks and armed soldiers in toe in. 283 00:23:53,560 --> 00:24:02,320 Speaker 2: T sinko ombres ceo p ohio entreo. 284 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:09,720 Speaker 1: Albaro saba that red headed army captain he was among them. 285 00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:14,280 Speaker 1: He was Dawison's personal chief of security and never left 286 00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:19,639 Speaker 1: his side. Dauison, always the charmer, introduced his sister to 287 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:21,000 Speaker 1: the group of soldiers. 288 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:24,680 Speaker 7: Present Communista. 289 00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:33,920 Speaker 1: I'd like you to meet my sister, the communist, he said. 290 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:37,920 Speaker 1: Marisa had no choice but to laugh it off, but 291 00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:41,720 Speaker 1: he insisted, asking her to tell them all publicly what 292 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:42,680 Speaker 1: side she was on. 293 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:49,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, let's says is intelligence. 294 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:58,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, it takes a lot of balls to tell your brother, 295 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:01,880 Speaker 1: the CIA trained death squad leader, that if he wants 296 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:03,879 Speaker 1: to know what side you're on, he should investigate a 297 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:07,160 Speaker 1: little harder. But I guess that's the benefit of being 298 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:13,480 Speaker 1: his sister. I can tell that it's hard for muddy 299 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:16,920 Speaker 1: set to talk about all of this, or maybe it's 300 00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:22,440 Speaker 1: just exhausting. In researching her, I came across dozens of 301 00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:27,080 Speaker 1: other interviews from across the decades. In the earliest ones, 302 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:32,600 Speaker 1: her hair is short, curly, and chestnut brown. In each 303 00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:36,480 Speaker 1: successive interview, the gray in her hair becomes more and 304 00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 1: more prominent. Today it's pulled back into a bun, just 305 00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:47,760 Speaker 1: streaks of white and gray. I finally ask her, point blank, 306 00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:50,359 Speaker 1: do you think your brother had anything to do with 307 00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:51,480 Speaker 1: the archbishop's murder? 308 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:58,160 Speaker 7: Who's de greg keer YOKREI had the borque? 309 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:02,879 Speaker 1: She tells me yes, but when she does, she doesn't 310 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:07,080 Speaker 1: look at me. She looks down at her hand, at 311 00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:09,720 Speaker 1: a ring that she's been tapping against her chair every 312 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:10,640 Speaker 1: time she gets mad. 313 00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:13,320 Speaker 7: Iquer Romeo. 314 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:21,760 Speaker 1: I think Romero was a rock in his shoe, she says, 315 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:24,400 Speaker 1: and that he thought that he needed to get rid 316 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:29,879 Speaker 1: of him. I feel so much sympathy for her. She 317 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 1: spent so many years answering for her brother's crimes, trying 318 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:36,960 Speaker 1: to make sense of the boy that she knew and 319 00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:42,199 Speaker 1: the man that he became. Is Quilos hermanos no ermanos. 320 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:47,399 Speaker 1: A brother is still a brother. I tell her and 321 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:56,040 Speaker 1: she says yes with a sigh. Roberto that we saw 322 00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:58,760 Speaker 1: and was diagnosed with an aggressive throat cancer in nineteen 323 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:03,359 Speaker 1: ninety two. After a long period of estrangement, Marisa did 324 00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:05,960 Speaker 1: go to the hospital and bid her brother goodbye. 325 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:10,120 Speaker 7: Jaunt Moribundo jan. 326 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:18,280 Speaker 2: Jo, Luisita, Luisitades Alessiman. 327 00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:25,480 Speaker 1: Marisa would sit a couple afternoons a week with him, 328 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:31,480 Speaker 1: watching cartoons. They never spoke about the war or of Archbishop. 329 00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:34,000 Speaker 7: Romero Okay al Meno. Jissimo La. 330 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:41,720 Speaker 1: Dauisson's cancer progressed rapidly, eating away his vocal passage in 331 00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:44,840 Speaker 1: a dark twist of irony. The man who was the 332 00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:48,479 Speaker 1: voice of so much death and agony died with an 333 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:50,800 Speaker 1: empty throat at the age of forty eight. 334 00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:57,240 Speaker 7: Bon cancer is a freetent. 335 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:04,440 Speaker 1: Looking back, I can't help but think about all the 336 00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:07,879 Speaker 1: times that Roerto la Wison could have been stopped. But 337 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:12,439 Speaker 1: at every turn people saw a charismatic figure who they 338 00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:16,480 Speaker 1: thought that they could use for their own purposes. First 339 00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:24,080 Speaker 1: the military, then the oligarchs, then the US government. Roberto 340 00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:27,480 Speaker 1: da Wison died in nineteen ninety two, but he left 341 00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:33,000 Speaker 1: a long shadow in El Salvador. His party Arena is 342 00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:37,840 Speaker 1: still a major political player, and his son, Roberto Lawison Junior, 343 00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:42,960 Speaker 1: was the mayor of one of the country's largest cities. Still, 344 00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:46,760 Speaker 1: for most he is remembered as the man who planned 345 00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:51,480 Speaker 1: Archbishop Romero's murder. It's a comforting and convenient end to 346 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:56,240 Speaker 1: the story. The bad man gets a horrible illness, one 347 00:28:56,320 --> 00:29:00,360 Speaker 1: that seems to perfectly fit his horrific crimes, and eyes 348 00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:04,960 Speaker 1: in pain. At least, that's the ending that most of 349 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:07,800 Speaker 1: l Savador's rich and powerful would like for us to 350 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:11,840 Speaker 1: leave with. But for people like me and for Nico 351 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,240 Speaker 1: van Elston, that's not quite enough. 352 00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:18,720 Speaker 6: There was a whole group of people that were funding 353 00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:23,000 Speaker 6: these desk squad killings, which were largely organized and orchestrated 354 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:24,840 Speaker 6: by Delby Sum. But he wasn't the only one. 355 00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:30,760 Speaker 1: That's Nico van Elston. Nico mostly focuses on environmental law, but. 356 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,800 Speaker 6: I've also done over the years a great deal of 357 00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:37,560 Speaker 6: promono work, and in particular in the area of international 358 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:38,400 Speaker 6: human rights. 359 00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:41,600 Speaker 1: Work, which I find to be an odd hobby. But 360 00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:44,840 Speaker 1: Nico grew up in California like me, and he was 361 00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:47,240 Speaker 1: introduced to the Oscar Romero story pretty early on. 362 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:51,760 Speaker 6: I was in high school in northern California, and I 363 00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:56,720 Speaker 6: remember was the funeral for Oscar Romero, and I was 364 00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:01,160 Speaker 6: generally aware of the growing number of death squad killing. 365 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:03,680 Speaker 1: So when Nico got the chance to work on a 366 00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:07,600 Speaker 1: case that would hold Oscar Romero's murderers to account, well, 367 00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:11,000 Speaker 1: of course I leapt at it. After the coup plotters 368 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:13,640 Speaker 1: were arrested in the eighties, many of them managed to 369 00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:18,479 Speaker 1: get released and disappear. Sadavia, that redheaded army captain who 370 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:22,480 Speaker 1: was Dawisoon's chief of security, was one of them. But 371 00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:25,560 Speaker 1: in two thousand and four it was discovered that Sadavia 372 00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:27,600 Speaker 1: was living in Modesto, California. 373 00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:31,320 Speaker 6: He had a used car sales shop, as I recall. 374 00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:34,680 Speaker 1: So Nico joined forces with the Center for Justice and 375 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:40,200 Speaker 1: Accountability to bring a civil lawsuit against Sadavia and his 376 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:42,040 Speaker 1: unnamed financial backers. 377 00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:45,840 Speaker 6: Why Alberto Sadavia, Because he was in the US and 378 00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:49,040 Speaker 6: we had jurisdiction, we could bring the case against him. 379 00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:51,800 Speaker 6: The problem in Al Salvador is that there had been 380 00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:56,520 Speaker 6: no criminal prosecutions concerning the Romero killing, and it wasn't 381 00:30:56,600 --> 00:31:00,120 Speaker 6: possible at that time, so there was no justice this 382 00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:02,000 Speaker 6: really terrible crime. 383 00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:09,240 Speaker 1: In nineteen ninety two, the Salvadoran Assembly voted to enact 384 00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:14,400 Speaker 1: a sweeping amnesty law. It absolved everyone of crimes committed 385 00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:18,200 Speaker 1: during the war. That included not just the high profile 386 00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:22,040 Speaker 1: crimes like the murder of Archbishop Romero, but thousands of 387 00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:26,680 Speaker 1: other killings during the war. For every Oscar Romero, there 388 00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:31,160 Speaker 1: are thousands of teachers, activists, journalists, and normal civilians who 389 00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:35,360 Speaker 1: got caught in the crossfires, thousands whose names we don't know, 390 00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:39,040 Speaker 1: who will never have a monument or plaque named in 391 00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:44,680 Speaker 1: their honor. Likewise, for every Va we Son, there are 392 00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:50,680 Speaker 1: thousands of military generals, politicians, and funders responsible for the 393 00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:56,360 Speaker 1: violence who will never see justice. That's why Niko van 394 00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:59,719 Speaker 1: Elston and the CJA filed their civil lawsuit in two 395 00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:03,320 Speaker 1: thousand and four. They couldn't do a criminal suit in 396 00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:08,040 Speaker 1: the US courts, but they could sue for damages, basically 397 00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:11,440 Speaker 1: go after Sadavia and the people who had been bankrolling 398 00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:12,280 Speaker 1: the death squads. 399 00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:17,840 Speaker 6: There was definitely a core of oligarchs that were funding 400 00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:21,320 Speaker 6: a lot of the death squads killings, and Dabisong was 401 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:25,360 Speaker 6: kind of a bridge between the military elements that were 402 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:27,840 Speaker 6: doing that work. Taking their uniforms off and going out 403 00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:29,400 Speaker 6: and doing this as a hobby on the side. 404 00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:34,280 Speaker 1: The lawsuit not only named Captain Alberto Saravia as responsible 405 00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:38,520 Speaker 1: for killing Archbishop Romero, it also included ten john does 406 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:43,800 Speaker 1: those shadowy figures, most of them operating from boardrooms in Miami, 407 00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:48,480 Speaker 1: who were known funders of the death squads the Oligarchs. 408 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:53,080 Speaker 6: Sadavia was chief of security, as he liked to call himself, 409 00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:56,720 Speaker 6: to Roberto Davison, he was not you know, he was 410 00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:59,040 Speaker 6: not giving the orders except to the low level votes. 411 00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:02,160 Speaker 6: He was, you know, he was taking the orders from Davifont, 412 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:06,040 Speaker 6: who clearly worked it out with those that were funding 413 00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:07,080 Speaker 6: that those efforts. 414 00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:12,640 Speaker 1: After the war, the documents seized during Thatauison's attempted coup 415 00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:18,680 Speaker 1: were uncovered, including the infamous Saravia Diary, the supposed plan 416 00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:25,880 Speaker 1: for killing Oscar Romero. Sadavia would later testify that the 417 00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:30,160 Speaker 1: person who wrote the list was Dauison himself. He would 418 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:33,640 Speaker 1: later be interviewed by Salvadoran journalist Carlo Zada in an 419 00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:40,120 Speaker 1: article titled How We Killed Monsigne Romero. Nico van Elsen 420 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:42,600 Speaker 1: and the CJA won their civil case in two thousand 421 00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:46,240 Speaker 1: and four. A California judge ruled that Sadavia and the 422 00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:50,560 Speaker 1: John Does were responsible for killing Archbishop Romero, and they 423 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:54,880 Speaker 1: owed ten million in damages. This money was never paid, 424 00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:59,920 Speaker 1: Sadavia was dead broke, and the unnamed oligarchs couldn't be 425 00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:04,720 Speaker 1: sufficiently tied to the murder. Still, the judgment was a 426 00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:08,680 Speaker 1: significant moral victory. It signals that though we may not 427 00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:11,840 Speaker 1: be able to change the past, there's hope for justice 428 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:13,840 Speaker 1: in the present and in the future. 429 00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:17,200 Speaker 6: And there are in other cases that CG brought in 430 00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:20,120 Speaker 6: the United States against other Salvadorns that were involved in 431 00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:23,560 Speaker 6: the government and in the military for other human rights amusism. 432 00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:28,880 Speaker 1: Roberto Lawison is remembered as one of the worst figures 433 00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:33,640 Speaker 1: in Salvadorn history. The horrors he committed are now well known, 434 00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:37,920 Speaker 1: but he was only the face of a much larger problem. 435 00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:42,400 Speaker 1: He may have been the Boogeyman, but he wasn't the darkness. 436 00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:47,239 Speaker 1: And isn't that what we're all really afraid of, the 437 00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:51,960 Speaker 1: unnamed things that we cannot see, the ones just beyond 438 00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:59,880 Speaker 1: our reach. On the next episode, the moment that finally 439 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:03,480 Speaker 1: woke up the American public exposed a cover up and 440 00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:06,880 Speaker 1: forced Ronald Reagan to answer for what was happening in 441 00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:07,640 Speaker 1: El Salvador. 442 00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:12,360 Speaker 11: It is reported today from El Salvador that four Americans 443 00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:13,399 Speaker 11: have been killed there. 444 00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:21,400 Speaker 1: That's next time on Nation of Saints. If you're interested 445 00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:24,480 Speaker 1: in learning more about the trial against Albero Seraia, I 446 00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:28,959 Speaker 1: highly recommend Matt Eisenbrandt's excellent book Assassination of a Saint. 447 00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:36,600 Speaker 1: Sacred Scandal. Nation of Saints is a production of a 448 00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:40,640 Speaker 1: HA Podcasts in partnership with Iheart's Mike Wuldura podcast network, 449 00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:44,840 Speaker 1: and is hosted and written by me Jasmine Romero, produced 450 00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:49,320 Speaker 1: by Jasmine Romero with help from Albero Sespelez. Research and 451 00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:53,680 Speaker 1: reporting by Jasmine Romero, Edited by Cyda Kevelo, Jorge just 452 00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:56,719 Speaker 1: and Rose Red. Nation of Saints was recorded in New 453 00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:59,439 Speaker 1: York City at the Relic Room, with engineering by Sam Bear, 454 00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:04,760 Speaker 1: mixing and sound designed by Pachiquinones. Original music by Golden Mines, 455 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:09,759 Speaker 1: Darko and Iame based on Patrick Hart's original composition. Fact 456 00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:14,160 Speaker 1: checking by it Indira Aquino Ayala. Executive producers are Carman 457 00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:18,880 Speaker 1: geratrol isaac Lee, Rose Reed, and Nando Villa. Our executive 458 00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:23,040 Speaker 1: producers at iHeart are Giselle Bansis and Arlene Santana. Sacred 459 00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:27,240 Speaker 1: Scandal was created by Melanie Bartley and Paulo Varro's Special 460 00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:31,160 Speaker 1: thanks to Roberto Valencia, Nico van Elsten, and Matt Eisenbrandt. 461 00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:35,400 Speaker 1: For more podcasts, go to the iHeartRadio app or wherever 462 00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:37,080 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite podcasts.