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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Law Podcast. I'm June Grosso. Every

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Speaker 1: day we bring you insight and analysis into the most

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Speaker 1: important legal news of the day. You can find more

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Speaker 1: episodes of the Bloomberg Law Podcast on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud

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Speaker 1: and on Bloomberg dot com slash podcasts. President Trump won

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Speaker 1: a legal round in his effort to undo Obamacare. A

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Speaker 1: DC federal judge rules that the Trump administration can expand

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Speaker 1: the sale of short term health insurance policies that don't

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Speaker 1: meet the standards of the Affordable Care Act. Joining me

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Speaker 1: as Timothy Jos, professor at Washington n Ley School of Law,

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Speaker 1: explain what these short term health insurance policies are and

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Speaker 1: why they don't meet the standards of Obamacare. The Health

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Speaker 1: Insurance Portability and Accountability Act back in impose some regulations

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Speaker 1: on the individual health insurance market, but excluded what it

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Speaker 1: referred to a short term, limited duration health plans, and

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Speaker 1: when the a c A was adopted in two thousand

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Speaker 1: and ten, it carried over the definition of individual health

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Speaker 1: insurance coverage and thus implicitly that exclusion of these plans.

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Speaker 1: The Obama administration and two thousand and fifteen I believe

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Speaker 1: adopted a regulation that would limit them to three months

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Speaker 1: non renewable, and the Trump administration then last year expanded

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Speaker 1: them so that they can now extend up to three

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Speaker 1: and sixty four days or at least less than a year,

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Speaker 1: and can be renewed for up to three years. And

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Speaker 1: the reason for doing that, it explained, was to create

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Speaker 1: an alternative to the individual health insurance market. And the

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Speaker 1: plaintiffs in this case in the d C. District Court

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Speaker 1: sued claiming that that's exactly what Congress didn't want. That

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Speaker 1: they wanted to get all of individual health insurance coverage

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Speaker 1: into the a C, A comply and more market with

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Speaker 1: its consumer protections. So that's what the case was about.

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Speaker 1: Did the federal judge, Judge Richard Leon Bases ruling on

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Speaker 1: the impact of these policies on the whole of Obamacare. No,

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Speaker 1: he simply held, and held it in a number of

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Speaker 1: different ways, that the term short term limited duration was

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Speaker 1: not defined in the law, and therefore the Department of

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Speaker 1: Health and Human Services could define it anyway at once too,

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Speaker 1: And so he said that they had acted within their

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Speaker 1: discretion in defining it in this way. So what are

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Speaker 1: the concerns of the plaintiffs about having these short term

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Speaker 1: health insurance policies available. Well, I think there are two concerns.

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Speaker 1: One is that the policies themselves have some very serious drawbacks.

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Speaker 1: They don't cover pre existing conditions, they have annual in

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Speaker 1: lifetime limits, which are prohibited under the Affordable Care Act,

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Speaker 1: many of them have very high deductibles, and they don't

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Speaker 1: offer much protection to consumers. A second problem is that

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Speaker 1: the theory is that healthy people will purchase these policies

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Speaker 1: and leave the individual health insurance market. And in fact,

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Speaker 1: the Department admitted in its preface to the regulations that

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Speaker 1: a million people could do that. It could be much

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Speaker 1: more than that. And if healthy people leave the a

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Speaker 1: regulated individual insurance market, that's going to drive up premiums

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Speaker 1: for everyone left behind, those people with pre existing conditions.

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Speaker 1: A third problem actually is the market any of these products.

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Speaker 1: They are pushed very hard. People that are listeners may

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Speaker 1: have gotten calls urging them to purchase these kinds of policies.

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Speaker 1: They're pushed very hard by brokers, by websites, and it's

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Speaker 1: often very unclear either they're a compliant or not, and

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Speaker 1: people who are looking for a c a compliance policies

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Speaker 1: are often steered to these products. So now other federal

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Speaker 1: judges have rejected some of the Trump administration's sort of

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Speaker 1: and runs around Obamacare, for example, the rule permitting small

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Speaker 1: businesses to join together to offer plans exempt from the rules.

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Speaker 1: So how much does this particular judges ruling advance the

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Speaker 1: president's effort to undo Obamacare. Well, I think it is

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Speaker 1: a very significant ruling. Of course, the biggest case pending

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Speaker 1: right now is the case in New Orleans and the

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Speaker 1: Fifth Circuit that would completely destroy the Affordable Care Act

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Speaker 1: and all of its provisions. But I think this is

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Speaker 1: a very important case because the short term limited duration plans,

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Speaker 1: I think are for many people the most immediately available

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Speaker 1: alternative to a see A compliant policies and will probably

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Speaker 1: have the greatest impact on increasing premiums for people who

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Speaker 1: have to remain in the a c A compliant market.

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Speaker 1: We assume that the case you were talking about the

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Speaker 1: Federal Appeals Court in New Orleans that will end up

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Speaker 1: at the Supreme Court. Are these cases where the judges

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Speaker 1: are ruling on certain rules that the Trump administration put forth,

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Speaker 1: are they likely to end up at the Supreme Court

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Speaker 1: as well? They could end up at the Supreme Court.

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Speaker 1: I think that they're less likely to because they have

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Speaker 1: less of an impact then the case in New Orleans,

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Speaker 1: but they certainly could end up in the Supreme Court.

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Speaker 1: Right now, they're both headed for the d C. Circuit

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Speaker 1: Court of Appeals, and uh, I think that they could

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Speaker 1: very likely end up there. We've talked before about that case.

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Speaker 1: The Federal Appeals Court is considering weighing request to overrule

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Speaker 1: a Texas judges decision late last year to strike down Obamacare,

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Speaker 1: and it's entirely now that there have been oral arguments.

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Speaker 1: Do you still feel that the Texas judge really was

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Speaker 1: out of bounds in doing that? Oh? Absolutely, I mean,

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Speaker 1: and people across the political spectrum, including for example, Senator Collins,

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Speaker 1: have said that the decision was contrary to the law

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Speaker 1: and often have said that it's absurd. But I've listened

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Speaker 1: to the oral argument, and it's not at all clear

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Speaker 1: that the majority of the judges and the Fifth Circuit

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Speaker 1: will we'll go along with that. There's a chance that

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Speaker 1: at least part of his ruling is going to be upheld.

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Speaker 1: They were very enlightening, Thank you so much, as you

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Speaker 1: are as well. That's Professor Timothy just of the Washington

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Speaker 1: and Lee School of Law. Thanks for listening to the

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Law Podcast. You can subscribe and listen to the

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Speaker 1: show on Apple pod podcast, SoundCloud, and on Bloomberg dot

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Speaker 1: com slash podcast. I'm June Brosso. This is Bloomberg m