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Speaker 1: Hey, this is any and Samantha. I'm welcome to Stephan.

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Speaker 1: Never told you, but actually I hurt radio and I

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Speaker 1: wanted to bring this episode back about cospling because yes,

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Speaker 1: I'm getting ready for Dragon Con. A lot of my

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Speaker 1: friends are too, and I'm really loving seeing them get

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Speaker 1: so into it and like how they are making their

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Speaker 1: costumes and I'll just get random questions or pictures and I like,

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Speaker 1: where did this come from? And it's like, oh, I

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Speaker 1: was researching how to do this? Okay, cool. I love it,

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Speaker 1: but I'm excited and I'm excited to see how how

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Speaker 1: their costumes turn out. I'm getting my haircut tomorrow to

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Speaker 1: fit my disco Luke outfit because that's what I'm doing again,

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Speaker 1: because it was a hit and I loved it. It

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Speaker 1: was comfortable. I really liked the comfort part. Yes, I

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Speaker 1: do have to fix my lightsaber, which is one of

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Speaker 1: the nerdiest things I've ever said. I think I don't know.

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Speaker 2: That doesn't even phasee me for you, So I don't

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Speaker 2: think that's that would be counting as one of the

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Speaker 2: nerdiest things you've ever said.

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Speaker 1: I think because that means I've used it to know

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Speaker 1: that I actually have to.

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Speaker 2: No I'm thinking about your gold LESCo Luke outfits and

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Speaker 2: the things that you had. You would tell me that

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Speaker 2: you have to prepare for that.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, no, okay, I've got thank you for putting

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Speaker 1: it in perspective for me.

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Speaker 2: Or even when you're talking about the arm for your

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Speaker 2: Winter Soldier arm, like how many time you had to

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Speaker 2: fix it? Yeah? No, still even though like the sword

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Speaker 2: for the how to train your drive those comments.

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Speaker 1: So no, Annie, I have proof.

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Speaker 2: It's not the nerdiest thing you've ever said to me.

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Speaker 1: A lot, a lot of stuff that could qualify your right.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean, I do have to fix the lightsaber,

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Speaker 1: but I might do my cool Stan Luke outfit, which

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Speaker 1: no one would get, but no one really gets to

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Speaker 1: go Luki that they just figure, oh that looks really

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Speaker 1: funny and that's fair. But that would be my Winter

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Speaker 1: Soldier Luke Skywalker mash up based on the Sebastian Stammar

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Speaker 1: Camel meme. I'll see, I might do it. That sounds

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Speaker 1: a lot more effort, We'll see. I'm sure I'll have

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Speaker 1: more to report about this too, after we get to

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Speaker 1: the to the end of which I will be very tired.

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Speaker 1: That is one thing about this is that I am

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Speaker 1: exhausted afterwards. It's gonna be fine. Please enjoy this classic episode. Hey,

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Speaker 1: this is Andy and Samantha and welcome to Steph. I've

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Speaker 1: never told you your production of iHeart Radio Today is Thursday,

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Speaker 1: which means it is time for another half hour. As always,

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Speaker 1: drink responsibly if you choose to do so. H what

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Speaker 1: are you drinking, Samantha.

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Speaker 2: I'm keeping it simple for this sad, sad hour, unhappy hour,

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Speaker 2: okay hour?

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Speaker 1: Oh?

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Speaker 2: Is it an okay hour?

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Speaker 1: Okay?

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Speaker 2: I assumed it being Annie's corner would be an unhappy hour,

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Speaker 2: but I guess it is a neutral hour.

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Speaker 1: It's an ups and downs hour, but it's actually gonna

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Speaker 1: be like ten. All right, ups and downs.

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Speaker 2: You ready for the troller coaster. I am drinking a

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Speaker 2: seltzer Ah, just a strawberry lemonade seltzer, keeping it easygoing

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Speaker 2: summary in this very much of a rainstorm because the

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Speaker 2: hurricane has come through. For those of you out in

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Speaker 2: New Orleans and Louisiana, were thinking about you and hope

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Speaker 2: you are safe. Yeah, what about you?

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Speaker 1: I am drinking a dag of a slug sliger, which

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Speaker 1: if you could see, it's a greenish blue. Nice. Yes,

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Speaker 1: because I celebrated a friend's birthday at my birthday last

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Speaker 1: weekend by staying in and eating a lot of Star

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Speaker 1: Wars themes foods and watching a lot of Star Wars

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Speaker 1: and drinking some Star Wars drinks. And our friend and

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Speaker 1: colleague Holly Fry, who was on this Happy Hour before

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Speaker 1: to talk about Star Wars among many things, sent me

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Speaker 1: all of these recommendations. Of course. Oh yes, and so

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Speaker 1: this is from the Galaxy's Edge cookbook, which I did

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Speaker 1: get for my birthday.

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Speaker 2: Oh yay.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's essentially a margarita. It's it's tequila and then

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Speaker 1: blue cursew for the color just a little bit, and

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Speaker 1: then a little bit of water and lime juice and

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Speaker 1: then kind of a rosemary ginger simple syrup. Mine, for

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Speaker 1: some reason, is much bluer than the picture in the book.

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Speaker 1: And I can't figure out where I went wrong, but

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Speaker 1: something is little wry. And then I put blackberries in there.

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Speaker 1: Is it supposed to be blue? It's supposed to be green.

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Speaker 1: Oh so something with the blue Curse, I was supposed

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Speaker 1: to do something and it's not happening in mine. It's

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Speaker 1: still a cool color.

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Speaker 2: Maybe you didn't put enough lime juice.

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Speaker 1: I'm put in a lot of lime juice because it

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Speaker 1: is a little bit sweeter than I normally would drin,

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Speaker 1: and so I d added a lot more. And also

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Speaker 1: I'm drinking it out of the glass You got Me,

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Speaker 1: which is the Last of Us two glass and it says,

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Speaker 1: if I ever were to lose you, I'd truly lose myself,

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Speaker 1: which is this very sad song slash quote the whole movie.

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Speaker 1: Whole movie. See, it's a movie. To me, it's a

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Speaker 1: game experience.

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Speaker 2: You take it in like a movie.

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Speaker 1: So I do. I do. And that's one of the

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Speaker 1: reasons I want to talk about what we're talking about today,

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Speaker 1: which is my experience cosplaying as a woman, because I

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Speaker 1: have been working on an Ellie from the Last of

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Speaker 1: Us to cosplay, which is barely simple costume wise, and

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Speaker 1: for a lot of reasons I've said before, I wear

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Speaker 1: a lot of costumes for work, and I am currently

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Speaker 1: scheduled to speak at Dragon cod which I'm still I

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Speaker 1: don't know what's gonna happen, but it just got me

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Speaker 1: thinking about all of this, and I know I've touched

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Speaker 1: on it before, but I want to talk about it

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Speaker 1: because I I do. I'm actually kind of shy, and

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Speaker 1: when I do cosplay, it is it does take a minute,

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Speaker 1: like I have to get over kind of an embarrassment.

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Speaker 1: But if I can do that, then it is a

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Speaker 1: wonderful experience of feeling like someone else for a minute,

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Speaker 1: just really like really really For me, it feels like

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Speaker 1: really empowering. But that being said, there is a long

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Speaker 1: history of women cosplaying kind of being relegated into two categories,

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Speaker 1: and it really annoys me because we've talked about gatekeeping

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Speaker 1: when it comes to fandom, and cosplay is generally seen

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Speaker 1: as more of a woman's area, and I think everyone

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Speaker 1: knows what just in case you don't. Cosplay is like costuming,

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Speaker 1: it generally has some element of like your behaving as

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Speaker 1: that character, but it doesn't always. I think a lot

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Speaker 1: of times it just gets thrown around as you make

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Speaker 1: this costume to be this character. But the two categories

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Speaker 1: I was talking about, I feel like women are relegated

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Speaker 1: to is either sexy or funny, right, and it's you

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Speaker 1: can't be anything in between, which is that you know,

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Speaker 1: not unique to nerd culture or at all, Like I know,

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Speaker 1: it's been an ongoing conversation around Halloween costumes even of

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Speaker 1: just the options that are available for women, And I

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Speaker 1: think when it comes to the sexualized aspect, it's really

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Speaker 1: unfortunate for a lot of reasons because there are plenty

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Speaker 1: of times when I feel like I have to make

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Speaker 1: considerations in costumes that other like dudes, don't have to

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Speaker 1: make of how is this going to be perceived? And

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Speaker 1: as sometimes I even think about, well, what does this

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Speaker 1: costume mean, like if I wanted to be this character,

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Speaker 1: or is it in some way like not feminist or

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Speaker 1: like the way I would wear it, is it not feminist?

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Speaker 1: No matter what you do, you're going to be sexualized.

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Speaker 1: So there have been times, because I think it's so secret,

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Speaker 1: that I have worn a lot of like the Winter Soldiers,

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Speaker 1: the one I'm known for, and that one it can

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Speaker 1: be seen as sexy. It wasn't really my intent, but

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Speaker 1: you know, it's like a lot of leather and it's

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Speaker 1: pretty tight. And then I've done like Catwoman, which has

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Speaker 1: also got a lot of leather, and then right now

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Speaker 1: I'm working on like Luke Skywalker, and I've got my

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Speaker 1: helic coost Tube and my Harley Quinn costume. But all

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Speaker 1: of that, if you wear something like that, which is

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Speaker 1: that's also called gender bending, is when you dress as

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Speaker 1: a gender that is not your own, of character who

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Speaker 1: identifies as different gender than your own. I feel like

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Speaker 1: there's this judgment that happens where usually men are angry

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Speaker 1: with you or look down on you for sexualizing their

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Speaker 1: favorite character or somehow making them like more effeminate. End

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Speaker 1: quotes are weaker by being a woman dressing as like

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Speaker 1: that's ridiculous, a woman could never do what this character does.

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Speaker 1: And then like I'll never forget. One time I was like,

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Speaker 1: I was dressed as catwoman and I got so many

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Speaker 1: sexual comments, like so so so many. This one guy

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Speaker 1: came up to me and he just said, like in

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Speaker 1: the grossest like lurious voice ever, like you know what

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Speaker 1: you're doing? And I was like what, yeah, And it's

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Speaker 1: like if you dress that way, you have to expect that.

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Speaker 1: That seems to be the vibe. It's like, well, you

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Speaker 1: dressed like that, so this is the attention you're gonna get.

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Speaker 1: You knew what you were doing, so yeah, it's gross.

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Speaker 1: It's gross. And then there's another aspect of it of

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Speaker 1: if you're dressed as a character, people will ask to

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Speaker 1: take pictures with you. And you would well you probably

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Speaker 1: would believe it, but I have gotten asked you all

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Speaker 1: kinds of like positions and like they just want this

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Speaker 1: picture with their character. But it's like I don't feel

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Speaker 1: like you'd ask that of a man. I really don't.

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Speaker 1: And then on top of that, there's like, well, what

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Speaker 1: if children see me and I don't want and I

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Speaker 1: like hate that I have to think about that at all,

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Speaker 1: But I don't want them to see this like interactions

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Speaker 1: and think like this is normal or this is what

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Speaker 1: should be accepted or expected. But at the same time,

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Speaker 1: if I want to dress sexily, then I want to

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Speaker 1: dress sexily, like I don't all these considerations, and the

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Speaker 1: only way to escape that is to do like the

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Speaker 1: other total opposite end of the spectrum and do something

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Speaker 1: really funny or you're not sexual at all, so hopefully

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Speaker 1: you can escape this kind of attention. I mean, that's

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Speaker 1: a whole other conversation too of like what costumes, how

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Speaker 1: costume design for women has been in generally sexy, so

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Speaker 1: like what's available to you to choose from.

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Speaker 2: Sex and necessarily talked about that really.

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Speaker 1: Tell me more.

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Speaker 2: It essentially was Halloween and the costumes were I think

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Speaker 2: like sexy cat or oh trumpy witch or something like that.

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Speaker 2: Essentially say either you're one or the other and you

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Speaker 2: can't there's and they're like, yep, you just said a

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Speaker 2: whole mouthful right there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's essentially. Yeah, we talked about that all the time,

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Speaker 1: the Madonna and the horse in Drome, like eventually you

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Speaker 1: have to choose one or the other. And I thought

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Speaker 1: about that too, and I'm feeling like really sad and

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Speaker 1: down on myself, like how long can I get away

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Speaker 1: with cosplaying before people just think I put that just terrible?

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Speaker 1: If I'm having fun to continue to do it, but

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Speaker 1: that is like sometimes I do feel really embarrassed when

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Speaker 1: I do it, and there's a weird like and I'm

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Speaker 1: thinking of conventions specifically here this is a dude space

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Speaker 1: and my dude costume is really good, while yours is

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Speaker 1: silly and like not good, and I don't want to

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Speaker 1: be around you. And it's very strange because, like I said, again,

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Speaker 1: outside of conventions, I feel like cosway is more of

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Speaker 1: a woman's realm and has been. But you enter that

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Speaker 1: space and suddenly it's like you are just an amateur

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Speaker 1: trying to keep up, and that can differ by genre too,

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Speaker 1: because some genres have more intense gatekeeping than others. But

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Speaker 1: that also comes with it, and we did like the

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Speaker 1: Fate Geek Girl episode. I've been tested on my Marvel

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Speaker 1: knowledge before when people come up and be like, you

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Speaker 1: don't have the right to Dressice as character because you

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Speaker 1: don't know enough about them or whatever, which is so dumb,

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Speaker 1: so dumb, And I hate that I get caught up

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Speaker 1: into it because sometimes I'll be like, oh, yeah, I do,

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Speaker 1: but I'm like, I should even give it in a

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Speaker 1: time of day. It doesn't matter in either case.

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Speaker 2: Right, what's the point in such gatekeeping when a We're

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Speaker 2: just here for fun.

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Speaker 1: Yes, And also, I mean that's a big.

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Speaker 2: Ah.

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Speaker 1: That is a big can of worms that I've tried

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Speaker 1: to like let go, but I don't feel like I'm

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Speaker 1: very good at making things. And there is a kind

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Speaker 1: of an air around dragon Con because dragon Con is

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Speaker 1: the one in Atlanta is more about costumes and cosplay

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Speaker 1: than it is about I would say the guests are celebrities.

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Speaker 1: That's been my experience. And that being said, there is

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Speaker 1: a level of judgment that comes with if you bought

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Speaker 1: your costume versus if you've made it, and I really

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Speaker 1: don't care. I do appreciate when people took the time

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Speaker 1: and have the skill to make it, but I really,

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Speaker 1: you know, great for you, But I'm not going to

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Speaker 1: judge people for buying stuff.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I could unpack that more later, but for simplicity's sake

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Speaker 1: right now, generally, I'm not going to judge people for

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Speaker 1: buying stuff. But I find that a lot of the

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Speaker 1: guys who I've felt judged by have bought like everything

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Speaker 1: they have, and I've made mine, and I guess mine

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Speaker 1: is like you can tell I made it, but right ah,

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Speaker 1: damned if you do, damned if you don't. I'm telling

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Speaker 1: you it's true. Yeah, this is just my anecdotal experience,

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Speaker 1: and I feel like I do have a lot of

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Speaker 1: anecdotal experience with friends of mine as well. But I

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Speaker 1: also feel like there's a level of you're not X

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Speaker 1: enough to be this character, which does happen to men,

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Speaker 1: but I think it happens way more to women. It's

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Speaker 1: like you're not strong enough and you could never be

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Speaker 1: strong enough, or you're not you don't fit the part

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Speaker 1: for whatever reason, and therefore you're just like a little

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Speaker 1: girl masquerading around. Just gross too.

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Speaker 2: I'm kind of unrealistic quick as most of the characters

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Speaker 2: you're dressing up as you're nothing alike. Sorry, so it

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Speaker 2: may you may look somewhat like that person, but that

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Speaker 2: doesn't mean you have that personality, right mindset or or

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Speaker 2: superhero abilities. You're not magic, bro, Yeah right, So why

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Speaker 2: are you trying to get keep because they don't look

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Speaker 2: enough like all you like you're faking too, like you're

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Speaker 2: making pretend and enjoying your life and having a moment

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Speaker 2: that's a little outside reality because it's nice to escape reality.

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Speaker 1: So let it be. Yeah, well, and I think that's

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Speaker 1: we could come back and have a bigger conversation about that,

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Speaker 1: and we've talked about it a little in other things.

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Speaker 1: But and that could be totally wrong. This could be

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Speaker 1: just me, you know, analyzing dude fans at these conventions

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Speaker 1: that have done this to me, because I've met plenty

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Speaker 1: of nice, like male fans, but in general, my bad

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Speaker 1: experiences have been with dudes at these things. And it's

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Speaker 1: almost like they're so insecure, like they feel like they've

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Speaker 1: been made fun of for being nerds for their life.

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Speaker 1: And we talked this was gate keeping for sure, that

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Speaker 1: they want to put you down and make you feel

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Speaker 1: like I've done the hard work. I know what I'm

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Speaker 1: talking about. I've earned this expertise in their right to

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Speaker 1: do this, and they just assume because you're a woman,

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Speaker 1: that you haven't and I feel, I don't know. It

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Speaker 1: feels to me like it's coming from a place of insecurity,

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Speaker 1: and I could be totally wrong, but like they they're

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Speaker 1: nervous about being made fun of, so they're like, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna make fun of her before she can get me first.

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Speaker 2: Oh sure, there's a lot of insecurity and a lot

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Speaker 2: of this again is part of it. Some people take

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Speaker 2: it very seriously, very seriously, like we talked about with fandoms,

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Speaker 2: don't mess with people. Step out of line, You're gonna

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Speaker 2: get called out real quick. And it goes beyond just

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Speaker 2: loving something, and therefore it becomes a whole other level

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Speaker 2: of ownership, which is not the worst thing, but can

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Speaker 2: become unhealthy.

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Speaker 1: Oh absolutely. And there are so many avenues of cosplay

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Speaker 1: which I love, that have been unhealthy and are improving.

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Speaker 1: And when you talk about conventions and specific like the

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Speaker 1: things we talked about all the time, like there's layers

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Speaker 1: of racism and ableism and sexisms just because it's not

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Speaker 1: like it's separate from the world. It's that's the world

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Speaker 1: we live in. So there are aspects of that as well,

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Speaker 1: and I'm glad we're having those conversations. And also just

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Speaker 1: you know, access, like who can afford to go to

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Speaker 1: these things, right, and who can afford to buy their costume?

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Speaker 1: Are to make their own costume, like all that stuff,

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Speaker 1: and then we're judging people who have to do whatever

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Speaker 1: they had to do to be a character that they

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Speaker 1: want to be and love, and then making them feel

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Speaker 1: guilty about it, right, which it should be a fun

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Speaker 1: experience where we're sharing like a love of something. And

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Speaker 1: I think, you know again, I know I bring it

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Speaker 1: up all the time, but like things like fan fiction,

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Speaker 1: I feel like there's a judgment of my way the

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Speaker 1: right way to enjoy a fandom. You don't get it.

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Speaker 1: You're making it worse for being here as a woman,

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Speaker 1: because it's so I feel like there's just a layer

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Speaker 1: of seeing it as weaker, like you were making how

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Speaker 1: dare you dress as the Winter Soldier? Because now I

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Speaker 1: feel like he's weak and effeminate, right, like that aspect

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Speaker 1: of it. All that being said, I do love cosplaying

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Speaker 1: and I find it really rewarding. I find the dressing

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Speaker 1: up of it rewarding. And I also, like I said,

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Speaker 1: I don't feel like I'm good at making things, but

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Speaker 1: I did make it like I was persistent and determined

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Speaker 1: and there was some amount of real success that I

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Speaker 1: got from that. And especially when the Winter's Soldier arm,

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Speaker 1: I've made four of them, and I feel like they

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Speaker 1: got better and better and I eventually got so good

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Speaker 1: at it. I posted a video on my Instagram of like,

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Speaker 1: here's how you do it. I did it one, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, a couple hours, whereas before it took me

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Speaker 1: like months to do it. So I feel like there's

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Speaker 1: so many levels of expertise in this, whether it is

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Speaker 1: your knowledge of it or your love of something or

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Speaker 1: or how you made it. And people get really, really creative,

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Speaker 1: and I'll never forget one time this like college professor

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Speaker 1: came up to me, like took a picture and you know,

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Speaker 1: said can I use this in my art class? How

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Speaker 1: did you do this? And that's that's a wonderful failure.

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Speaker 1: And I think like a lot of women do that,

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Speaker 1: where we doubt the things that we've made or have

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Speaker 1: done or put together and we shouldn't like we shouldn't

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Speaker 1: have that level of doubt. That being said, we have

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Speaker 1: an episode coming up on blogs, and you asked me, Samantha, like,

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Speaker 1: if you could have made something doing something else, or

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Speaker 1: if you could have a blog, what would it be.

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Speaker 1: You would obviously be fan piction, but I think I

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Speaker 1: could do a cosplay one because that's where I've gotten

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Speaker 1: a lot of tips for how to make things through

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Speaker 1: cosplay blogs. And I once was asked if I would

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Speaker 1: cosplays professionally, and I thought, the damn business card. But

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Speaker 1: there's a life where I'm out there costplaying and getting

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Speaker 1: paid for it.

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Speaker 2: You should because your stuff is really good, very thought out.

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Speaker 2: I think you have a lot of good supporters because

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Speaker 2: you were friends. Some of your friends are on amazing

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Speaker 2: at this cosplay thing, and again our friend of the show,

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Speaker 2: Holly amazing at this cosplay thing, just amazing in general.

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Speaker 2: And I have no skills, so I would definitely be

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Speaker 2: that person that would buy things. I mean, I'm not

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Speaker 2: even pretending. It's not like I'm being self deprecating. I

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Speaker 2: really don't have the crafting skills to make things. I

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Speaker 2: can barely draw things. My handwriting is unintelligible, Like that's

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Speaker 2: just it's just bad. So for people who do things,

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Speaker 2: I'm like, wow, great job, and you do a great job.

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Speaker 1: Oh thank you. Uh you know, as always it sposed

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Speaker 1: to never an attempt to get a compliment, but I

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Speaker 1: will take it. I will take it. And I have

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Speaker 1: had to be creative and I've liked that. Like I've

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Speaker 1: had to like find pieces and stuff that normally wouldn't

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Speaker 1: go together and make it. And I, you know what,

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Speaker 1: proud of that profit you should be. But listeners, oh

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Speaker 1: my goodness. If you have cosplay pictures you want to

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Speaker 1: share with us our tips, please send them our way.

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Speaker 1: You can email us Stephanie and mom Stuff at iHeartMedia

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Speaker 1: dot com. You can find us on Instagram at stef

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Speaker 1: I Never Told You, or on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast.

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Speaker 1: Thanks to always to our super producer.

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Speaker 2: Christina, also good at most things she does.

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Speaker 1: I believe, yes, oh for sure. And thanks to you

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Speaker 1: for listening. Step whenever told your protection of iHeartRadio. For

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Speaker 1: more podcast or iHeartRadio, visit the iHeart Radio app Apple

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Speaker 1: podcasts our regular listen to your favorite shows