1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:03,560 Speaker 1: The Pope calls for nonviolence and praises a ceasefire in Iran, 2 00:00:03,640 --> 00:00:06,800 Speaker 1: but is he calling for a surrender? And King Charles 3 00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:09,520 Speaker 1: declines to issue an Easter message as the head of 4 00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:12,760 Speaker 1: the Church of England. While Netflix is featuring a new 5 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:16,720 Speaker 1: show with the Pope kissing another man, A Prayerful Posse 6 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 1: gets into it all next. Welcome to an important Prayerful Posse. 7 00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:30,920 Speaker 1: Be sure to subscribe to the show. It's a wonderful 8 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:34,000 Speaker 1: way to support our work and totally free. Or you 9 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:37,519 Speaker 1: can visit Raymond Arroyo dot com if you'd like to contribute. 10 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:41,040 Speaker 1: Now let's convene the Prayerful Posse. I'm joined by canon 11 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:44,680 Speaker 1: lawyer Priest of the Archdiocese of New York, Father Gerald Murray, 12 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:47,840 Speaker 1: and traveling abroad, but still joining us, editor in chief 13 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:50,560 Speaker 1: of the Catholic Thing dot Org, Robert Royal. Thank you 14 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:53,080 Speaker 1: both for being here. We will get to the Iran 15 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 1: US ceasefire in a moment. But in Pope Leo's urbiat Orb, 16 00:00:57,440 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 1: his Easter message to the city in the world called 17 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:02,920 Speaker 1: on those with weapons to lay them down. Then he 18 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:06,560 Speaker 1: announced a prayer vigil for peace on April eleventh, and 19 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:10,039 Speaker 1: Saint Peters Square. He said this, let those who have 20 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:12,400 Speaker 1: weapons lay them down, Let those who have the power 21 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:16,400 Speaker 1: to unleash wars choose peace. We are growing accustomed to violence, 22 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:19,840 Speaker 1: resigning ourselves to it, and becoming indifferent in different to 23 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:23,759 Speaker 1: the deaths of thousands of people. Father Pope's have been 24 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:29,120 Speaker 1: voices for peace from time immemorial. But Leo framed this 25 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:32,320 Speaker 1: as a non violence argument. He said something about the 26 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:36,520 Speaker 1: power with which christ Rose is entirely nonviolent. Is he 27 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:41,039 Speaker 1: calling for pacifism here? And what's the distinction between a 28 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 1: pope calling for peace and a pope effectively rendering a 29 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:47,080 Speaker 1: moral verdict on this ongoing military conflict. 30 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:50,160 Speaker 2: Well, no, that's the nub of the question here, Raymond. 31 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 2: Of course, the Pope is in the right to say, 32 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 2: let's end fighting, let's have a truce, let's have negotiations. 33 00:01:56,720 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 2: But on the other hand, it's not fair in my opinion, 34 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 2: to carry characterized just wars as acts of violence, because 35 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:08,920 Speaker 2: we don't call police actions to stop a murder police violence. No, 36 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:12,079 Speaker 2: we call that the justified use of force. And as 37 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 2: regards indifference, there has been a lot of indifference in 38 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 2: the world to violence. You know, we can look at 39 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:23,080 Speaker 2: the Russia Ukraine invasion and how so many nations just 40 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:25,079 Speaker 2: want to give a pass to Putin and say, well, 41 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:27,440 Speaker 2: you know, he's entitled to take the Ukraine. And thank 42 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 2: god the Ukrainians have been able to fight it to 43 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:34,960 Speaker 2: the war in Iran. The whole calculation, though, is covered 44 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 2: by the somber cloud of nuclear weapons. This is something 45 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:44,440 Speaker 2: that rarely gets discussed. The United States did not start 46 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:49,920 Speaker 2: attacking Iran because of any other significant reason, then they're 47 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 2: getting close to possessing nuclear weapons. Trump made that clear. 48 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:55,079 Speaker 2: He said that in his address to the nation the 49 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 2: other day. So to say lay down your weapons is good, 50 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:02,240 Speaker 2: But how about calling for the disarmament of Iran and 51 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:05,840 Speaker 2: they renouncing their nuclear program. I think that's an important 52 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 2: part of this whole calculation, because you know, I think 53 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:10,640 Speaker 2: President Frum wants a deal if they get rid of 54 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:11,959 Speaker 2: their nuclear power program. 55 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, Bob, you'll remember at Palm Sunday mass Pope Leo 56 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:19,120 Speaker 1: said that Jesus does not listen to the prayers of 57 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:22,680 Speaker 1: those who wage war. Does that statement square with the 58 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:23,880 Speaker 1: Church's tradition? 59 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 3: Well, no, I mean absolutely, it's not true. Depending on 60 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 3: what you mean by wage war, obviously, I mean if 61 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 3: you're engaging in a war of aggression, a war of conquest. 62 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 3: Certainly those things are ruled out by the Church's just 63 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:41,880 Speaker 3: worth theory and also by just secular just worth theory. 64 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 3: I mean, we've had this international law for a number 65 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:48,600 Speaker 3: of years now that's try to incorporate some elements from 66 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:51,600 Speaker 3: the Catholic just worth teaching and apply them to the 67 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 3: modern world. But I think Father is exactly right. I mean, 68 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:58,960 Speaker 3: the difficulty here is that how long do you need 69 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:03,960 Speaker 3: to wait before a threat becomes so existential? That's the 70 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 3: term that we often use, that you simply have to 71 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 3: stop it for going on. It's not exactly as if 72 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 3: Iran has not already killed thousands of American troops in 73 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 3: various places, you know, provided improvised explosive devices, etc. Throughout 74 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:24,479 Speaker 3: the Middle East, held our hostages back in nineteen seventy nine, 75 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:28,359 Speaker 3: attacked other neighbors. I mean, we've seen this sort of 76 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:35,760 Speaker 3: reckless aggression against other neighbors in the Middle East. So look, 77 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:39,960 Speaker 3: the popes are always going to tell us let's talk 78 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:44,359 Speaker 3: rather than they have funed. But you know, a just 79 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 3: ruler has got to decide, and I'm not sure. I mean, 80 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:49,560 Speaker 3: we'll find out whether this was a good decision or 81 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 3: not over time. But that said, there is a serious 82 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:57,040 Speaker 3: threat here that could not just be kicked down the 83 00:04:57,160 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 3: road forever and at some point because of the nature 84 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:04,479 Speaker 3: of the Islamic regime in Iran, which attacks its own people. 85 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:06,719 Speaker 3: I mean, it's killed tens of thousands of people in 86 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:10,600 Speaker 3: the last few weeks. It's a monstrous regime. It has 87 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 3: to be dealt with as if it is an extremely 88 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:16,560 Speaker 3: dangerous situation. And it's never a good idea to let 89 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 3: a dangerous situation become even more dangerous. And that's why 90 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:24,040 Speaker 3: there are provisions in just War for when to attack, 91 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 3: when a prudent statesman makes the decision that now is 92 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:29,960 Speaker 3: the time, because it's better now than later. 93 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:34,239 Speaker 1: Yeah. On April seventh, when Trump was threatening to level 94 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:37,279 Speaker 1: around essentially if they didn't come to the negotiating table, 95 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:39,600 Speaker 1: the Pope said this at his press gaggle. 96 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:44,440 Speaker 4: Listen, we all want to work for peace. People want peace. 97 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 4: I would invite the citizens of all the countries involved 98 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:54,520 Speaker 4: to contact the authorities, political leaders, congressmen, to ask them, 99 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 4: tell them to work for peace and to reject war always. 100 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:03,400 Speaker 1: Father, the Pope is actively calling it seems on American 101 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:08,359 Speaker 1: citizens to lobby their own congressman on a specific military conflict. 102 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:12,159 Speaker 1: Does this exceed his charism? 103 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 2: Well, I was surprised when he said that, because that 104 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 2: does involve, you know, his involvement in the political life 105 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:22,600 Speaker 2: of the United States. Pope certainly should give moral criterion, 106 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 2: but you know, to say it's time to call up 107 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 2: your congressman to tell him, you know, to try to 108 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:32,640 Speaker 2: stop Trump from doing what he's doing. I'm Pope's can 109 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:34,680 Speaker 2: do what they want in that sense, because they're not 110 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:38,839 Speaker 2: just political leaders, they're moral leaders. But you know, you 111 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:40,800 Speaker 2: have to contrast it. Has he done that with any 112 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:43,839 Speaker 2: other country on any other issue and not that I'm 113 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 2: aware of, And what's the wisdom of doing that in 114 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:51,080 Speaker 2: the future, because you know, the job of the pope 115 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 2: is not to have President Trumps steymiat in the Congress 116 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:58,800 Speaker 2: as another political player. He is a moral leader and 117 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:00,839 Speaker 2: he can tell people this is not something good. But 118 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:02,680 Speaker 2: then again they have to make their judgment because these 119 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:05,839 Speaker 2: are matters. Let's say it's contingent matters, but which I mean, 120 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 2: the information available to each one of us forms how 121 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:14,800 Speaker 2: we act. And President Trump and his CIA and others 122 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 2: they had advanced knowledge of the status of the nuclear 123 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:21,440 Speaker 2: program in Iran, and Bob is right, when does the 124 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:23,960 Speaker 2: problem get kicked down the road until they actually have 125 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 2: a nuclear weapon? At some point you make a decision. 126 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:28,080 Speaker 2: Trump made that decision. 127 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:31,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is a prudential judgment, unlike like a 128 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:34,440 Speaker 1: euthanasia law in a country where you could see a 129 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 1: pope saying call your congressman, call your representatives. But as 130 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 1: you mentioned, we haven't seen that yet, you know, and 131 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:45,760 Speaker 1: their countries with those euthan asia laws in place, Bob, 132 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:49,360 Speaker 1: as I mentioned at his Wednesday audience, the Pope welcomed 133 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 1: the us Ran ceasefire as a sign of living hope, 134 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:56,080 Speaker 1: and he says, following these recent hours of great tension 135 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 1: for the Middle East and for the whole world, I 136 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 1: welcome with satisfaction and is a sign of living hope 137 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:05,200 Speaker 1: the announcement of the immediate two week truth. I renew 138 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 1: for all the invitation to join me in the prayer 139 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:11,360 Speaker 1: vigil for peace that we will celebrate here at Saint 140 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 1: Peter's Basilica on Saturday, April eleventh. Bob, before the ceasefire, 141 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 1: Iran was pursuing nuclear capabilities. They pledged the destruction of Israel, 142 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 1: they had slaughtered tens of thousands of their own citizens. 143 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 1: We talked about just worth theory, But tell me about 144 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:31,240 Speaker 1: the pope weighing in here with this prayer vigil the 145 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:32,080 Speaker 1: importance of that. 146 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 3: Well, look, it's always good to pray for peace, and 147 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:38,840 Speaker 3: there's nothing wrong with Leo doing that. The problem here 148 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 3: seems to me is on both sides. I mean, I 149 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:45,600 Speaker 3: regret that President Trump said what he said on yesterday. 150 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:48,840 Speaker 3: I think that, Look, we know he's the kind of 151 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:50,800 Speaker 3: guy who is the art of the deal guy, and 152 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:53,640 Speaker 3: he goes right up to the edge and he pushes people. 153 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 3: But that went too far. And when you talk about 154 00:08:56,880 --> 00:09:00,480 Speaker 3: eliminating an entire civilization, which you know, let the Trump 155 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:03,040 Speaker 3: haters to think that he's going to drop nuclear bombs. 156 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 3: I never believe that for a minute. But he loves 157 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:08,880 Speaker 3: to pressure and he's not very precise in the way 158 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:11,640 Speaker 3: he speaks. I think Leo has got to be much 159 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 3: more precise. I mean, he is a moral leader of 160 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:17,280 Speaker 3: the world. Trump is kind of playing this dangerous political game. 161 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:20,679 Speaker 3: It's brinksmanship. You go right up to the edge. I 162 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:22,959 Speaker 3: wish he had done it differently, but that's the way 163 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 3: he did it, and good. It's great that we now 164 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 3: have this period, but the threat does not go away 165 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:34,200 Speaker 3: just because people are talking with one another. And I 166 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:36,640 Speaker 3: was joking to some friends the other day and I said, look, 167 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 3: this whole question of dialogue in certain circumstances and it 168 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:42,920 Speaker 3: doesn't even work in terms of cinidality. How is it 169 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:45,560 Speaker 3: going to work in terms of conflicts around the world. 170 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 3: And I said, you know, maybe we should retire the 171 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:50,120 Speaker 3: idea of dialogue for a century. And somebody wrote me 172 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:53,480 Speaker 3: back and said, is that long enough? Because you know, 173 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:56,680 Speaker 3: we seem to want this magical thinking that if we 174 00:09:56,760 --> 00:10:00,040 Speaker 3: sit down, everybody is reasonable, everybody has the same go 175 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:03,880 Speaker 3: That is not true. And I think the Vatican has 176 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 3: seriously need to sit down. Yes, pray, pray for peace, 177 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:12,840 Speaker 3: urge for peace, but recognize how complex the world is 178 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:16,920 Speaker 3: and what serious dangers nuclear weapons now are placed on 179 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:20,760 Speaker 3: the world. And it's not only just the United States, 180 00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:26,480 Speaker 3: it's other nations around the world and terrorist actors. It's 181 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:29,400 Speaker 3: a complicated thing that we shouldn't just push away as 182 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:32,640 Speaker 3: if there's some simple solution for this in dialogue. 183 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:36,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, and father, it's not just the Vatican. Both Archbishop 184 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:41,719 Speaker 1: Timothy Broglio, who heads the Archdiocese for Military Services here 185 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 1: in the US and the Bishop's Conference President in the US, 186 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:49,959 Speaker 1: Archbishop Paul Cokeley, both weighed in on this conflict. Listen, 187 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 1: they do think that it's hard to cast this war. 188 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:01,640 Speaker 3: You knows, as something that would be sponsored. 189 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:06,200 Speaker 1: By the Lord. And then Copley says, I call on 190 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:08,960 Speaker 1: President Trump to step back from the precipice of war 191 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:12,280 Speaker 1: and negotiate a just settlement for the sake of peace 192 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:17,319 Speaker 1: before more lives are lost. Father, is there daylight between 193 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:20,040 Speaker 1: what the bishops are saying and what Popolio has been saying? 194 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:23,559 Speaker 1: And again, while I know Jesus would not sponsor war, 195 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:26,000 Speaker 1: is it necessary at times? 196 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:31,320 Speaker 2: Well, of course it's necessary. You know. If we adopt 197 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:35,559 Speaker 2: a pacifistic attitude, which says that fighting war is itself 198 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:38,760 Speaker 2: in a moral act and therefore don't do it, well, 199 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:41,760 Speaker 2: the French nation would have been destroyed by now. It 200 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:46,800 Speaker 2: would have become a German province. South Korea would not exist, 201 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:49,680 Speaker 2: It would be North Korea from top to bottom of 202 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:54,000 Speaker 2: the peninsula. The Japanese Empire would have destroyed the Philippines 203 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 2: if we didn't wage war against the Japanese Empire. To 204 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:00,600 Speaker 2: say that war in and of itself as a sign 205 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:03,960 Speaker 2: of something immral that has to be resisted is just 206 00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:07,559 Speaker 2: not true. You know, the Lord said love your neighbor. Well, 207 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:09,360 Speaker 2: one of the ways you love your neighbor is to 208 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:12,480 Speaker 2: take up arms when your neighbor is being mortally threatened. 209 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 2: We have to say that, you know. We say to 210 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:19,720 Speaker 2: the military members, you're a noble profession, you're guarantees of peace, 211 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:22,960 Speaker 2: you're protecting, you're laying down your lives for your fellow man. 212 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:24,760 Speaker 2: You're putting yourself in harm's way. 213 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 1: All of that is true. 214 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:29,440 Speaker 2: We can't then turn around and say, but the essential 215 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:33,719 Speaker 2: obligation of a military man is wrong because you're using 216 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:37,640 Speaker 2: violence to attain an end. Now you're using justified force 217 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 2: to end a threat and restore peace. The same analogy 218 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:44,880 Speaker 2: works for the police. Police carry weapons for one reason. 219 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:48,120 Speaker 2: Criminals carry weapons. 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In a preview trailer, 242 00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 1: it depicts a character dressed as the Pope kissing a 243 00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:34,680 Speaker 1: character dressed as a cardinal inside the Vatican. Now, the 244 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 1: show's defenders say that these aren't actually images of the 245 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:42,760 Speaker 1: Pope and a cardinal. There the trickster figures Loki and 246 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 1: Puck in disguise who've infiltrated the Vatican to so chaos 247 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:53,040 Speaker 1: in this particular storyline, Father, does that explanation that this 248 00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:57,520 Speaker 1: is fiction, does that wash away the impact of that image? 249 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:00,760 Speaker 1: And do you think Netflix would air Loki and Puck 250 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:03,440 Speaker 1: dressed is in a mom and a Mullah in a 251 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:04,600 Speaker 1: mosque kissing. 252 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 2: No doubt whether they would never do that for the 253 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:10,800 Speaker 2: Islamic religious leadership. Now, this is a direct attack on 254 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:14,360 Speaker 2: the Catholic Church. The implication is that bishops and even 255 00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:17,680 Speaker 2: the Pope are homosexuals. They just hide it very well. 256 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:19,400 Speaker 2: And now you're going to get a preview of it 257 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:22,400 Speaker 2: thanks to Netflix, because we're bold enough and courageous enough 258 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:25,880 Speaker 2: to portray it. This is horrible. They should not do this. 259 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:30,320 Speaker 2: The religious sensibilities of people is attacked. The character of 260 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 2: the Pope and any other cardinal who may be associated 261 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:36,400 Speaker 2: with the figure is also under attack. This is in 262 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:40,080 Speaker 2: moral behavior, men kissing each other in homosexual embrace. The 263 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:42,440 Speaker 2: Catholic Church says that's im mortal sin. Don't do that. 264 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:46,880 Speaker 2: Yet they're doing this. It's crafty, it's typical. It's sad 265 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 2: to say. You know, I'm always saying to myself, the 266 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:53,640 Speaker 2: sensitivity crowd, the people who tell us you can't use pronouns. 267 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:57,000 Speaker 2: You know, you can't pray for people going into restrooms 268 00:15:57,040 --> 00:15:59,400 Speaker 2: if they claim to be X, Y or Z. There's 269 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:02,920 Speaker 2: no sensitive toward the Catholic Church, the hierarchy, or our doctrines. 270 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:06,480 Speaker 2: It's outrageous. They ort to withdraw this, but they won't. 271 00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:08,840 Speaker 2: I'm sad to say, because they're part of the cultural 272 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:12,080 Speaker 2: left who's in continual warfare with the Catholic Church. 273 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:15,960 Speaker 1: Bob. It's interesting to note that this particular episode of 274 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:20,600 Speaker 1: Sandman aired last July and then right at Easter, with 275 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:23,960 Speaker 1: Catholics flooding back in the church and record numbers, this 276 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:27,360 Speaker 1: thing goes viral. Obviously, the provocative nature of the image 277 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:30,920 Speaker 1: is being used to infuriate and promote a show that 278 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:35,240 Speaker 1: was damaged when it was revealed the author Neil Gaiman 279 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 1: of Sandman was himself charged with sexually assaulting women. 280 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:44,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, I am happily in the Catholic country of Portugal today, 281 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:47,440 Speaker 3: So I'm a little bit insulated from this, but I'm 282 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:50,720 Speaker 3: not surprised about this in the slightest. You know, Carl 283 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:53,600 Speaker 3: Truman has just written a new book called A Desecration 284 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:56,040 Speaker 3: of Man. It just came out this week, and he 285 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 3: talks about how it's the case now that we hear 286 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 3: about transgression all the time, but we almost gotten to 287 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:05,240 Speaker 3: the point that there's nothing left to transgress, and really 288 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:09,280 Speaker 3: what it is is desecration. It's gone beyond the point 289 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 3: of just being different. And you know, I'm Maverick and whatnot. 290 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:15,360 Speaker 3: I'm not surprised about this. My wife and I watch 291 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 3: a lot of British murder mysteries because they seem to 292 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 3: be somewhat gentle and you just want to spend an 293 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:23,960 Speaker 3: hour or two with your spouse watching something on TV. 294 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:27,560 Speaker 3: But we note that it is a rare case that 295 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:30,159 Speaker 3: within the first fifteen or twenty minutes there isn't a 296 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:34,760 Speaker 3: lesbian couple that's presented. I mean, this is an attempt 297 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:37,920 Speaker 3: not to desecrate the church on one hand, and then 298 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:41,480 Speaker 3: to normalize these other relations on the other. And we 299 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:44,800 Speaker 3: know quite well why it is. You know, there are 300 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:49,760 Speaker 3: attacks that Muslims carry out regularly on churches on Easter, 301 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:54,440 Speaker 3: on Christmas, you know, those those Christian feasts, because that's 302 00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:56,840 Speaker 3: the time when the most people are around, and so 303 00:17:57,119 --> 00:17:59,040 Speaker 3: that doesn't surprise me in the bit. This is just 304 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:03,480 Speaker 3: in our own home, homegrown fashion, attacking our own traditional, 305 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:06,479 Speaker 3: our main traditional faith in the West. 306 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:09,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to turn to something here in the US. 307 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:12,840 Speaker 1: It got less attention than it deserved. This week, the 308 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:16,439 Speaker 1: Daily Wire and the Federalists just settled a lawsuit with 309 00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:19,520 Speaker 1: the US State Department over its efforts to target and 310 00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:23,639 Speaker 1: defund conservative media outlets. And the mechanism was something called 311 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:28,119 Speaker 1: the Global Engagement Center, which originally was created to counter 312 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 1: foreign propaganda, but instead it was turned inward and it 313 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 1: was funding outfits like NewsGuard and the Global Disinformation Index, 314 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:43,120 Speaker 1: which assigned credibility scores to news organizations, and those scores 315 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:47,920 Speaker 1: were then used by advertisers to defund or deplatform outlets 316 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:51,960 Speaker 1: the government had essentially marked as unreliable. Bob is a 317 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:54,960 Speaker 1: longtime Catholic journalist. When you hear that your own government 318 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:58,200 Speaker 1: was in the business of using taxpayer money to strangle 319 00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:03,359 Speaker 1: the revene of ideological opponents, what goes through your mind. 320 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:07,439 Speaker 3: I mean, I have to say that the revelations of 321 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:09,600 Speaker 3: this kind and there are many, many more of them. 322 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 3: By the way, I we know that our government, especially 323 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:17,160 Speaker 3: under the Bidens, when we got to the point that 324 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:20,879 Speaker 3: social media was becoming a major player in politics, and 325 00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:23,560 Speaker 3: they were out there seeking to shape what was going on. 326 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:25,679 Speaker 3: I mean, we all know that this is going on. 327 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:27,720 Speaker 3: We all know that there's a bias in the media, 328 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:31,680 Speaker 3: a very serious and deep and almost visceral left wing 329 00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:35,200 Speaker 3: bias in the media. But the way that the institutions 330 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:40,760 Speaker 3: of our democracy have been turned to punish people who 331 00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:43,720 Speaker 3: say who make certain statements. The same thing is going 332 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:45,760 Speaker 3: on in Europe. By the way, there's a big tussle 333 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 3: between Elon Musk's X and the European Union because the 334 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:52,680 Speaker 3: European Union would like to define certain things as beyond 335 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:55,639 Speaker 3: the bounds of speech. Well yeah, I mean this is 336 00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:58,960 Speaker 3: just to say that the liberal consensus as they see it, 337 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:02,760 Speaker 3: which includes a lot of anti Christian and anti religious elements, 338 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:06,080 Speaker 3: by the way, is the only these are the only 339 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:11,240 Speaker 3: realms are permitted speech. And it's you know, governments today 340 00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 3: have immense power because so many people are getting their 341 00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:18,440 Speaker 3: information through the internet, that if you regulate the Internet, 342 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:21,639 Speaker 3: it's like making sure that only prova comes out every morning. 343 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:25,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, father, I want to switch to it. A story 344 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:31,720 Speaker 1: in Germany, Auxiliary Bishop Ludger Schleppers of Essen, who's been 345 00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:35,760 Speaker 1: referred to as the queer representative of the German Bishop's Conference, 346 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:41,080 Speaker 1: said this week that homosexuality, transgenderism and intersects conditions are 347 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:46,600 Speaker 1: not a modern construct, but part of God's plan of creation. 348 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 1: At the same time, he targets the trad wife phenomenon, 349 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:54,639 Speaker 1: the idea of women embracing the role of homemaker, dismissing 350 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:58,960 Speaker 1: that as an artificial aesthetic, lacking real grounding and a 351 00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:01,160 Speaker 1: problem for free and equality. 352 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:05,480 Speaker 2: Father, your reaction, well, the bishop is one hundred percent 353 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:10,159 Speaker 2: wrong on all scores. Homosexuality is a modern construct. The 354 00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:14,159 Speaker 2: word didn't exist until the nineteenth century. Intersects that's a 355 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:16,879 Speaker 2: twenty or twenty first century word that has no meaning 356 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:22,639 Speaker 2: at all. Christian anthropology is a theological reflection on the 357 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:25,600 Speaker 2: state of reality, and the state of reality is there's 358 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:28,640 Speaker 2: male and there's female. So the next question is, well, 359 00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:31,120 Speaker 2: how do they interact with each other? And that's where 360 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:35,359 Speaker 2: anthropology explains the purposes that are behind the creator's intent. 361 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:38,720 Speaker 2: You know, men and women come together, they raise children. 362 00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:41,679 Speaker 2: They don't abandon their children upon birth, They feed and 363 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:44,879 Speaker 2: house them, they educate them. Then the children are supposed 364 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:47,000 Speaker 2: to take care of the parents when they get older. 365 00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 2: In other words, there's a whole series of things that 366 00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:50,960 Speaker 2: flow from the fact that you have one man one 367 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:56,120 Speaker 2: woman in marriage. For him to say that sexual perversions 368 00:21:56,160 --> 00:22:00,400 Speaker 2: and activity that is homosexual or otherwise are somehow part 369 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:03,200 Speaker 2: of God's plan, he's got to consult the Bible and 370 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:06,160 Speaker 2: the natural law and the teaching of the church. So 371 00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:09,480 Speaker 2: what we have here is a full fledged subversion of 372 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:13,119 Speaker 2: Catholic doctrine by a so called guardian of the faith, 373 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:17,199 Speaker 2: a bishop. If he really believes that homosexuality is a 374 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:20,240 Speaker 2: good thing intended by God, then why doesn't he stand 375 00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:23,200 Speaker 2: up like Martin Luther, take the Catechism the Catholic Church 376 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:26,080 Speaker 2: in his hand and says, I reject this book because 377 00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:29,600 Speaker 2: this book teaches that homosexual activity is an abomination and 378 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:32,080 Speaker 2: I cannot believe it. Well, in that case, at least 379 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:34,320 Speaker 2: as heresy would be known public and he could be 380 00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:36,360 Speaker 2: thrown out of the church. What do they do instead? 381 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:38,880 Speaker 2: They use their office as bishop to get in front 382 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:40,480 Speaker 2: of the cameras and say, well, I'm the bishop. If 383 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:42,800 Speaker 2: here listen to me, it's terrible. 384 00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:49,400 Speaker 1: I want to quickly recap Holy Week. Pope Leo returned 385 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:53,280 Speaker 1: to the traditional Holy Thursday practice of washing the feet 386 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:56,680 Speaker 1: of twelve men, a deliberate return to form after Pope 387 00:22:56,680 --> 00:23:02,119 Speaker 1: Francis created some other alternatives, and then simultaneously Bishop Michael 388 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:06,600 Speaker 1: Martin of Charlotte continued Pope Francis's practice and project of 389 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:12,520 Speaker 1: washing the feet of women. Further south, Cardinal Rueda Aparasio, 390 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:16,360 Speaker 1: the Archbishop of Bogata, went to a red light district 391 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:19,480 Speaker 1: and washed the feet of transgender sex workers for the 392 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:24,080 Speaker 1: second year in a row. Bob, the symbolism of the 393 00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:28,399 Speaker 1: foot washing right is ancient and rich. What is lost 394 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:31,560 Speaker 1: when a bishop decides to sort of go down their 395 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:32,920 Speaker 1: own path this way? 396 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,840 Speaker 3: Now, I have to say, this has really made me think. 397 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:39,360 Speaker 3: I mean, I'm looking at this and I'm saying, why 398 00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:42,399 Speaker 3: do I know that this is wrong? And it really 399 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:46,040 Speaker 3: struck me this week as I was pondering this, Jesus 400 00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:50,680 Speaker 3: went and washed the feet of his apostles, and he's saying, 401 00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:54,440 Speaker 3: you know, I have washed your feet, washed one another's 402 00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:56,960 Speaker 3: feet because you know, the greatest among you is going 403 00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:59,960 Speaker 3: to be the servant among you. These are the twelve 404 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:02,800 Speaker 3: that he chose to go out into the world. These 405 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:06,359 Speaker 3: are like the bishops. And so the message from Jesus, 406 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:08,840 Speaker 3: and I mean, I think what we just saw it 407 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:11,959 Speaker 3: was a lot of virtue signaling the what we're watching 408 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:13,919 Speaker 3: the feet of Muslim women and what does that mean? 409 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:16,800 Speaker 3: Are they supposed to Are they supposed to serve us 410 00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:21,199 Speaker 3: the way we're serving them, or we're serving homosexual trans 411 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:26,160 Speaker 3: people or whatever. No, what Jesus's message was is that 412 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:31,119 Speaker 3: he said to hissest, his closest collaborators, the people who 413 00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:33,560 Speaker 3: are going to go out and preach the gospel to 414 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:37,000 Speaker 3: the entire world, that this is how you are to 415 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:40,359 Speaker 3: behave towards one another. This is what happens inside the church. 416 00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:44,240 Speaker 3: We're not seeking to show that we are humble to 417 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:47,760 Speaker 3: people on the outside. What He's trying to do is 418 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:51,320 Speaker 3: establish the way that the church actually operates. And I 419 00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:54,680 Speaker 3: think actually, in many ways it's much much much more 420 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:57,520 Speaker 3: urgent that people in the Vatican get that sense. And 421 00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:01,080 Speaker 3: thank God that Leo actually went back to the traditional 422 00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:04,600 Speaker 3: foot washing. And I wish there was some catechises about 423 00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:06,600 Speaker 3: this as well, because I think, I mean, I've just 424 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:09,920 Speaker 3: mentioned the most superficial beginning of way to reflect about this. 425 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:12,679 Speaker 3: There are great depths in here about the nature of 426 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:17,959 Speaker 3: the Church and the way we behave towards one another 427 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:19,240 Speaker 3: inside the church. 428 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:23,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, and Father, I know you have thoughts on this 429 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:23,760 Speaker 1: very quickly. 430 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:26,680 Speaker 2: Yeah. No, Bob's very right, and in fact, this is 431 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:30,000 Speaker 2: the whole point of why we do liturgical representations of 432 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:33,560 Speaker 2: scenes from the life of Christ and the apostles, because 433 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:36,240 Speaker 2: we're called to do the same thing. Jesus did not 434 00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:39,000 Speaker 2: wash the feet of people who are not there present 435 00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:41,800 Speaker 2: in the upper room at the Last Supper. So the 436 00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:45,399 Speaker 2: Pope Leo washed twelve the feet of twelve priests. He 437 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:47,920 Speaker 2: was doing exactly what was intended by this rite. 438 00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:53,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and again reflecting the iconography, reflecting the reality, 439 00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:57,480 Speaker 1: not a distortion of it. Belgian Bishop Johann Bonni is 440 00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:01,320 Speaker 1: back again. He announced recently that he to ordain married men. 441 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:04,040 Speaker 1: We talked about this to the priesthood in his diocese. 442 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:09,240 Speaker 1: By twenty twenty eight, he's invoking cinidality as the mechanism father, 443 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:13,600 Speaker 1: suggesting that the sonotyl process opens a path to doing 444 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:18,120 Speaker 1: things the Latin rite currently prohibits. My question is we've 445 00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:21,440 Speaker 1: talked about this before, but I want to be very 446 00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:25,119 Speaker 1: direct with our listeners. Is Bishop Bonnie describing a legitimate 447 00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:28,720 Speaker 1: process here, father, or is he announcing in advance that 448 00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:32,920 Speaker 1: he plans to use sinidality to disobey Rome or whatever 449 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:33,880 Speaker 1: it thinks. 450 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:38,439 Speaker 2: He wants to violate canon law and he's justifying it 451 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:40,680 Speaker 2: by saying the Church is in a different position now 452 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:43,080 Speaker 2: because they have something called sinidality, which no one can 453 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:45,080 Speaker 2: define what it really means. 454 00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:46,560 Speaker 1: But he's doing it. 455 00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:50,560 Speaker 2: In the context which is completely politicized. Okay, he announces 456 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:53,840 Speaker 2: this ahead of time, He gives a deadline. He tells Rome, 457 00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:55,960 Speaker 2: I'm going to do this because this is what should 458 00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:58,760 Speaker 2: be done. He then gives a whole series of justificationing 459 00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:01,640 Speaker 2: everybody I speak to him among other bishops, thinks it's 460 00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:04,119 Speaker 2: a good idea. He says, this has to be done. 461 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:06,879 Speaker 2: It's not a question of whether we should do it, 462 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:10,080 Speaker 2: is when we're going to do it. And he says also, 463 00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:11,840 Speaker 2: he s asked, well, what about the ordination of women? 464 00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:13,840 Speaker 2: You know what? His answer was, well, it's not time 465 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:16,320 Speaker 2: for that yet. So this is just one step in 466 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:22,040 Speaker 2: a further radicalization by Archbishop Bondi from Antwerp and for 467 00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:25,320 Speaker 2: the rest of the church in Europe. But consider this, 468 00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:27,760 Speaker 2: and this is really what we have to think about. 469 00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:34,600 Speaker 2: The people who attack Orthodox Catholics, okay, because they uphold tradition. 470 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:37,919 Speaker 2: They then turn around and say, well, the tradition of 471 00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:40,720 Speaker 2: obeying the pope. I'm attacking that, but don't attack me 472 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:43,760 Speaker 2: for doing that. Now they're claiming that they're justified to 473 00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:47,719 Speaker 2: disobey the pope. They're not justified to do it. You 474 00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,879 Speaker 2: cannot disobey canon law. And try to say, well, this 475 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:55,040 Speaker 2: is the Catholic answer. That's why Archbishop Lefever's followers should 476 00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:57,959 Speaker 2: not ordain bishops against the paper will, and this bishop 477 00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:00,960 Speaker 2: should not ordain married men because he thinks what's needed. 478 00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:06,479 Speaker 1: Also, this Easter bob back in Europe. King Charles of England, 479 00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:08,880 Speaker 1: the head of the Church of England, the person once 480 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:12,000 Speaker 1: titled defender of the faith, he now calls himself defender 481 00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:16,560 Speaker 1: of faiths. He issued no Easter message this year. None. 482 00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:20,360 Speaker 1: He did, however, make sure to issue a personal message 483 00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:24,679 Speaker 1: for Ramadan. He gave one for i'd this stirred up 484 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:29,200 Speaker 1: a lot of controversy among the UK Christians. My question, Bob, 485 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:31,520 Speaker 1: what does it say about the state of Christianity in 486 00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:33,960 Speaker 1: England when the head of the Church of England can't 487 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:35,800 Speaker 1: find thirty seconds for the Resurrection? 488 00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:39,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, it makes you wonder whether he is the head 489 00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:42,360 Speaker 3: of the Church of England, doesn't it. Yeah. You know, 490 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:45,880 Speaker 3: at first I wasn't too upset about this because the 491 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:53,760 Speaker 3: English monarch has never historically given an Easter message. But 492 00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:57,080 Speaker 3: after he went out of his way to make these 493 00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:02,280 Speaker 3: special messages for Muslim events, you would have thought that 494 00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:05,479 Speaker 3: just if you're going to be the defender of faith, 495 00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:08,080 Speaker 3: of the various faiths, you would just give equal time 496 00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:12,520 Speaker 3: at least to what is the historical main religion of 497 00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:15,360 Speaker 3: your own island that you're the king of right And 498 00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:17,800 Speaker 3: so you know there are people who try to defend 499 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:21,200 Speaker 3: him about this. I think that this is one of 500 00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:25,040 Speaker 3: those further signs of the way that people in the 501 00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:30,360 Speaker 3: public eye they collapse their own beliefs into a kind 502 00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:33,080 Speaker 3: of an acquiescence in what happens to be going the 503 00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:36,680 Speaker 3: way in politics or in ideology at a given moment. 504 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:39,440 Speaker 3: I don't see any way in the world that the 505 00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:43,680 Speaker 3: English monarch is supposed to be favoring, and I think 506 00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:47,240 Speaker 3: it is favoring favoring the Muslims who are now resident 507 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:51,560 Speaker 3: in illegally and illegally in the UK, over his own 508 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:55,280 Speaker 3: traditional Christian people. I know lots of people in England 509 00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:57,680 Speaker 3: were shocked by this, and I think the rest of 510 00:29:57,760 --> 00:29:59,960 Speaker 3: us ought to be too, because it's a further sign 511 00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:05,280 Speaker 3: of a public abandonment of Christianity in the West. 512 00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:09,400 Speaker 1: Buckingham Palace, by the way, said an annual Easter address 513 00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:12,120 Speaker 1: is not required of the monarch, but as Bob said, 514 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:15,280 Speaker 1: he did go out of his way to make a 515 00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:19,200 Speaker 1: brand new Muslim statement for their Holy Days. So interesting. 516 00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:24,120 Speaker 1: Across the United States this Easter, Catholic dioces has reported 517 00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:28,120 Speaker 1: conversion numbers they haven't seen in years. Detroit saw the 518 00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:32,040 Speaker 1: highest numbers in twenty one years, Galveston, Houston welcomed the 519 00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:35,959 Speaker 1: highest in fifteen years. Providence is up seventy six percent. 520 00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:41,240 Speaker 1: The Diocese of Boise, Idaho, where conversions are also surging, 521 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:45,120 Speaker 1: has launched an emergency vocations program because they don't have 522 00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:47,760 Speaker 1: enough priests to shepherd the new flock coming in. They 523 00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:51,720 Speaker 1: have one hundred and seven parishes served by roughly ninety priests, 524 00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:55,800 Speaker 1: a fifty percent dropout rate in the seminary and the 525 00:30:55,880 --> 00:31:01,000 Speaker 1: vocations director who calls the situation rather dire. Father, how 526 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:04,360 Speaker 1: do you interpret this and what should American dioceses and 527 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:08,360 Speaker 1: dioceses around the world be doing to inspire more priestly vocations. 528 00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:12,560 Speaker 2: Well, no, I credit that vocation director because it is 529 00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:16,720 Speaker 2: an emergency. We have empty seminaries in many, many places 530 00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:19,760 Speaker 2: in the United States. We don't have sufficient candidates to 531 00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:22,840 Speaker 2: replace the priests currently on active duty. So it is 532 00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:26,440 Speaker 2: an emergency. Now the question is how do you solve it? Well, 533 00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:29,520 Speaker 2: look at the places where there are a lot of vocations, 534 00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:32,920 Speaker 2: and perfect example for that is the Eastern province of 535 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:35,760 Speaker 2: the Dominican Friars here in the East coast of the 536 00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:40,080 Speaker 2: United States. They have multiple, multiple candidates. What is the reason? 537 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:45,320 Speaker 2: They're Orthodox? They're prayerful, they're serious, they embrace the traditions 538 00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:48,800 Speaker 2: of the Dominican order. They're rigorous and demanding in their 539 00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:53,440 Speaker 2: formation process, and their apostolate is expanding and has so 540 00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:55,840 Speaker 2: many aspects to it. In other words, men who say 541 00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:58,200 Speaker 2: I want to work full time for Christ and the Church, 542 00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:02,680 Speaker 2: they're entering a success us full operation which is going well. Well, 543 00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:04,920 Speaker 2: we have to have diacees, say the same thing that 544 00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:07,920 Speaker 2: you know, our parishes, our schools, our prison, hospital and 545 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:10,959 Speaker 2: ministries and the like. These are all important things and 546 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:14,000 Speaker 2: we want you to come be fully Catholic, fully devoted. 547 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:16,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, got great message. I want to end on this 548 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:20,800 Speaker 1: ray of light from outer space. The Artemis two crew, 549 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:24,680 Speaker 1: returning from deep space, found the time, unlike the King 550 00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:27,800 Speaker 1: of England, to send an Easter message from the far 551 00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:31,680 Speaker 1: side of the Moon. Astronaut Victor Glover, who took his 552 00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:34,240 Speaker 1: Bible with him into space, looked back at the Earth 553 00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:37,560 Speaker 1: from the distance and called it an oasis in all 554 00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:42,480 Speaker 1: this emptiness and mission specialist Jeremy Hanson, choking back tiers, 555 00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:46,440 Speaker 1: proposed naming a crater on the Moon Carol, after his 556 00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:49,840 Speaker 1: late wife, the late wife rather of Commander Reid Weisman, 557 00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:53,920 Speaker 1: who died of cancer at forty six. Bob, and then father, 558 00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:57,640 Speaker 1: What does it do for the faith when the cosmos 559 00:32:57,680 --> 00:32:59,480 Speaker 1: itself becomes kind of a pulpit? 560 00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:03,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, I thought this was just wonderful. I wondered how 561 00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:05,080 Speaker 3: I was going to feel about going back to the Moon. 562 00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:07,320 Speaker 3: And you know, lots of people think it's a waste 563 00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:10,600 Speaker 3: of money, there's nothing up there, but it's a human thing, 564 00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:13,719 Speaker 3: you know, it's an aspiration. I remember John F. Kennedy 565 00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:17,640 Speaker 3: giving a speech down in Texas about going to the 566 00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:19,360 Speaker 3: moon and saying, you know, we don't try to go 567 00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:22,200 Speaker 3: to the moon because it's easy. He said, it's like 568 00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:25,240 Speaker 3: rice playing Notre Dame. You do it because it's hard. 569 00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:30,600 Speaker 3: You know, you and human beings need challenges. I think 570 00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:34,400 Speaker 3: that we were just talking about the vocations crisis. If 571 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:38,000 Speaker 3: you ask people to do something challenging, John Paul Too 572 00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:40,160 Speaker 3: used to do this all the time. I mean, if 573 00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:42,280 Speaker 3: you ask people to just you know, kind of on 574 00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:44,360 Speaker 3: a Sunday morning and do something a little bit different 575 00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:46,040 Speaker 3: than they did, well, you know some of them will 576 00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:48,280 Speaker 3: respond to it. But if you say to them, look, 577 00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:52,200 Speaker 3: I mean this is really reaching out into reality further 578 00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:55,240 Speaker 3: than human beings have ever been before. And in your life, 579 00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:57,720 Speaker 3: you can go out and follow Jesus in a way 580 00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:01,720 Speaker 3: that very few people are called to. I think that's 581 00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:04,920 Speaker 3: something that makes the human spirit response. I thought, this 582 00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:07,680 Speaker 3: is a great week, and I very much applaud with 583 00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:10,799 Speaker 3: those astronauts did in the course of the fly by 584 00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:11,160 Speaker 3: the Moon. 585 00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:14,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, father, I'll give you the final word. 586 00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:16,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, ditto to everything Bob just said. And I have 587 00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:19,439 Speaker 2: to say when I was looking at that picture where 588 00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:21,759 Speaker 2: it had in the foreground the Moon and then the 589 00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:24,120 Speaker 2: Earth in the distance from the dark side of the moon, 590 00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:26,640 Speaker 2: you just say to yourself, what a good God we 591 00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:29,600 Speaker 2: have in the midst of all of this galactic and 592 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:34,240 Speaker 2: stellar void waste, et cetera. There we have a beautiful 593 00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:39,279 Speaker 2: planet with water and plants and trees and people and animals. 594 00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:42,800 Speaker 2: The Good Lord loves us. He gave us a great 595 00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:45,759 Speaker 2: place to live. We should use well what we have 596 00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:48,360 Speaker 2: and thank it thanks to him, because it's much better 597 00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:50,799 Speaker 2: to be alive than never to have existed. And that 598 00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:54,839 Speaker 2: life we have was right on display from that spaceship. 599 00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:57,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was spectacular watching it. Well, thank you all 600 00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:00,239 Speaker 1: for putting it in such great perspective, gentlemen. Great ful 601 00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:02,120 Speaker 1: to you all as always. And if you want more 602 00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:05,640 Speaker 1: of the Arroyo Grande prayerful Posse, subscribe to the Arroyo 603 00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:09,480 Speaker 1: Grande Show on YouTube or the podcast or Royal Grande 604 00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:12,240 Speaker 1: wherever you get yours on behalf of Robert Royal, Father 605 00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:16,280 Speaker 1: Gerald Murray. Until the Posse rides again, stay the course, 606 00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:19,719 Speaker 1: follow the light. I'm raining Arroyo. We'll see you next time. 607 00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:24,279 Speaker 1: Arroyo Grande is produced in partnership with DP Studios and 608 00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:28,040 Speaker 1: iHeart Podcasts, and is available on the iHeartRadio app or 609 00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:40,720 Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts.