WEBVTT - Octo-Cowboy! 0:00:06.800 --> 0:00:10.400 Welcome to Creature feature production of iHeartRadio. I'm your host 0:00:10.480 --> 0:00:15.520 of Many Parasites, Katie Golden. I studied psychology and evolutionary biology, 0:00:15.520 --> 0:00:18.240 and today on the show, we're talking about animals who 0:00:18.360 --> 0:00:21.159 ride on top of other animals, like a poodle on 0:00:21.200 --> 0:00:24.560 a horse at a rodeo, except you know, not messed up. 0:00:25.000 --> 0:00:28.840 Let's explore the exploits of octopuses, the tiniest and the 0:00:28.960 --> 0:00:32.760 largest passengers, and we'll answer the age old question. Are 0:00:32.840 --> 0:00:37.559 oxpeckers jerks joining me Today's comedian, writer and journalist who 0:00:37.560 --> 0:00:40.000 has done work for some More News as well as 0:00:40.080 --> 0:00:44.960 teen Vogue, Ella Yeerman. Welcome, Hi Katie, Hey, it's good 0:00:45.000 --> 0:00:45.559 to see you. 0:00:46.320 --> 0:00:47.159 Thanks for having me. 0:00:47.600 --> 0:00:52.000 Of course, I'm super excited. I the whole reason I 0:00:52.000 --> 0:00:55.040 picked this topic was I saw a very serious article 0:00:55.160 --> 0:00:57.600 in the New York Times about an octopus writing a 0:00:57.640 --> 0:01:03.360 shark like a pony, and you know, I it was. 0:01:03.480 --> 0:01:06.160 It's just one of those beautiful moments where our world 0:01:06.280 --> 0:01:09.319 is still messed up right now, but out there in 0:01:09.360 --> 0:01:13.279 the ocean there's a little orange octopus riding a shark 0:01:13.560 --> 0:01:15.400 and everything's copasetic and wonderful. 0:01:16.000 --> 0:01:18.520 That's really beautiful. Yeah, the octopus doesn't know anything about 0:01:18.640 --> 0:01:22.440 Donald Trump or or anything that's going on in the world. 0:01:22.840 --> 0:01:28.520 Despite being orange, knows nothing about orange. Yeah. So, quote 0:01:28.600 --> 0:01:32.800 unquote researchers otherwise known as perverts were stalking an innocent 0:01:32.880 --> 0:01:36.119 mac o shark off the coast of New Zealand when 0:01:36.200 --> 0:01:39.959 they spotted an orange blobby hat that the shark was wearing. 0:01:40.720 --> 0:01:44.160 It turns out the hat was a Meori octopus. These 0:01:44.200 --> 0:01:47.200 are large octopuses that grow over six feet so that's 0:01:47.240 --> 0:01:50.920 nearly two meters in European and they can weigh almost 0:01:50.960 --> 0:01:54.000 thirty pounds, which is around thirteen to fourteen kilograms. So 0:01:54.040 --> 0:01:58.240 they're not tiny octopodes. That's not that's not what you 0:01:58.280 --> 0:02:03.880 call them. They're not tiny octopus. But I don't know. 0:02:04.040 --> 0:02:09.520 I there's it is. Actually the plural of octopuses is octopuses. 0:02:09.560 --> 0:02:12.600 It's not octopus, not octopy because it's it's Greek and 0:02:12.639 --> 0:02:13.120 not Latin. 0:02:13.360 --> 0:02:17.040 It's something like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, some like something 0:02:17.080 --> 0:02:17.359 like that. 0:02:17.800 --> 0:02:19.920 I used to I used to know. I used to 0:02:19.919 --> 0:02:20.640 know how that works. 0:02:21.680 --> 0:02:24.080 Yeah I I I do my best to know as 0:02:24.160 --> 0:02:27.160 little about grammar as I possibly can and still function. Sure, 0:02:27.480 --> 0:02:30.320 but yeah, so it is a it is an an 0:02:30.320 --> 0:02:34.520 octopus that seem to be cool with writing on the shark, 0:02:34.600 --> 0:02:38.360 Like neither the shark nor the octopus seemed to be 0:02:38.400 --> 0:02:40.920 in distress, which is interesting, right it was it didn't 0:02:40.919 --> 0:02:45.000 seem like the octopus was like, oh crap, like I 0:02:45.080 --> 0:02:47.400 need to stay very still otherwise this shark is going 0:02:47.480 --> 0:02:50.359 to notice me. In fact, researchers think that the shark 0:02:50.600 --> 0:02:53.480 was probably aware of the octopus, given that it has 0:02:53.520 --> 0:02:57.360 sensory organs along its body that can sense pressure changes 0:02:57.400 --> 0:03:01.080 and vibrations. So it's not like the ark didn't know 0:03:01.080 --> 0:03:03.400 it was there because it can't see it. Also, the 0:03:03.440 --> 0:03:07.560 shark could very easily like knock the octopus off of 0:03:07.600 --> 0:03:11.880 its body just by swimming a little faster. So researchers 0:03:11.919 --> 0:03:13.840 are saying, like it kind of seems like the shark's 0:03:13.840 --> 0:03:17.000 okay with the octopus on it, and the octopus it 0:03:17.600 --> 0:03:21.160 seems to intentionally be like riding on the shark, So 0:03:21.200 --> 0:03:24.480 that that is the observation that was made. 0:03:24.720 --> 0:03:28.440 That's awesome. It's it's like the opposite of the scorpion 0:03:28.480 --> 0:03:32.400 and the toad story, right and sad. But this is 0:03:32.440 --> 0:03:34.440 like if they if the scobeen the toad actually shook 0:03:34.480 --> 0:03:36.760 hands and decided to cross the river right together. 0:03:37.280 --> 0:03:40.600 Right, they crossed the river together. Everything's fine, they shake 0:03:40.680 --> 0:03:43.240 it fine, and then the frog's like, oh crap, wait 0:03:43.320 --> 0:03:46.160 a minute, and the scarp's like, oh dang, dude, why 0:03:46.160 --> 0:03:49.200 did you just shake and it's his tail and you 0:03:49.240 --> 0:03:52.040 know anyways, uh yeah, no, I mean, this is a 0:03:52.360 --> 0:03:55.760 it is it is unusual. It's it's also unusual given 0:03:55.840 --> 0:03:59.640 that these are not like these species don't interact very often. 0:03:59.800 --> 0:04:06.000 So they the maco shark kind of is close usually 0:04:06.080 --> 0:04:08.280 dwells closer to the surface of the water, whereas the 0:04:08.320 --> 0:04:12.080 octopus spends most of its time near the seafloor. So 0:04:12.800 --> 0:04:16.080 they don't they aren't like, they're neither sort of natural 0:04:16.200 --> 0:04:21.280 like predator prey. They're also not natural like buddies. Right. 0:04:21.320 --> 0:04:23.279 They don't. They don't spend a lot of time. It's 0:04:23.320 --> 0:04:26.520 not sort of like a little Mermaid thing where the 0:04:26.560 --> 0:04:29.440 shark's playing the octopus like a guitar or something, right, Like, 0:04:29.480 --> 0:04:31.800 they don't. They don't hang out a lot. So the 0:04:31.880 --> 0:04:36.520 fact that they have this really strange interaction where the 0:04:36.520 --> 0:04:39.120 octopus is just hanging out on them like a surfboard 0:04:39.320 --> 0:04:42.880 is super weird. It's also very weird that we happen 0:04:43.000 --> 0:04:46.680 to see it, because it's really hard to observe stuff 0:04:46.680 --> 0:04:49.320 in the ocean, Like, right, the ocean is so big, 0:04:49.600 --> 0:04:53.719 it's so big, and we can't I mean, it's very wet, 0:04:53.800 --> 0:04:57.520 so we can't be there a lot because we gotta 0:04:57.560 --> 0:05:00.160 breathe and we can't just like hang out in the 0:05:00.160 --> 0:05:03.279 middle of the ocean indefinitely, And so a lot of 0:05:04.480 --> 0:05:07.440 live animal behavior in the ocean is hard to observe. 0:05:07.520 --> 0:05:10.560 Like you'd think we'd know everything about sharks and whales 0:05:10.600 --> 0:05:15.320 because they're so big, but we actually don't, because they 0:05:15.320 --> 0:05:19.400 are so difficult to observe, if you, like, even if 0:05:19.440 --> 0:05:21.160 you put a boat out there, right and have a 0:05:21.200 --> 0:05:25.640 bunch of people sitting on the boat, researchers as these were, right, 0:05:25.680 --> 0:05:28.000 Like these are researchers out on a boat doing research, 0:05:28.200 --> 0:05:31.599 probably not anything related to sharks and octopuses, but they're 0:05:31.600 --> 0:05:34.360 out there and they happen to see some behavior. It's 0:05:34.400 --> 0:05:37.320 just going to be a tiny fraction of the total 0:05:37.320 --> 0:05:38.520 behavior that you see. 0:05:38.320 --> 0:05:41.000 Because, right, maybe this happens all the time, right. 0:05:40.920 --> 0:05:43.360 We don't know, like maybe there's a whole sort of 0:05:43.400 --> 0:05:47.480 a shark octopus uber system that. 0:05:47.440 --> 0:05:48.320 We're unaware I of. 0:05:50.600 --> 0:05:50.880 Uber. 0:05:51.400 --> 0:05:53.479 The octopuses are treating the sharks like an uber, and 0:05:53.520 --> 0:05:56.720 the sharks are treating the octopus as like a new 0:05:56.760 --> 0:06:00.080 fashion trend. Right, it's very hip and cool if you 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:01.360 have an octopus. 0:06:00.880 --> 0:06:05.400 Hat, it's a it's sort of a symbiosis of the 0:06:05.480 --> 0:06:13.000 octopus getting transportation and the shark getting sort of high fashion, 0:06:13.640 --> 0:06:15.359 high fashion, high frashion. 0:06:15.480 --> 0:06:22.960 Yeah, only the most popular sharks to wear octopus are right, exactly. Well, 0:06:23.000 --> 0:06:25.360 it's funny that makes sense that you say, like it's 0:06:25.400 --> 0:06:27.080 really rare that we see stuff in the ocean, because 0:06:27.080 --> 0:06:30.240 I was I'm like scrolling through this relatively short New 0:06:30.279 --> 0:06:32.719 York Times article and it does sort of feel like 0:06:32.760 --> 0:06:35.840 the whole article is like, isn't this cool that this happened? 0:06:35.839 --> 0:06:37.680 And I was thinking, like, it's funny that this even 0:06:37.960 --> 0:06:42.520 qualifies as New York Times worthy news. 0:06:42.000 --> 0:06:46.600 They are desperate to find something that'll make anyone smile. 0:06:47.200 --> 0:06:52.159 Sure, right, like, look a cool octopus octopus on a shark. 0:06:52.200 --> 0:06:56.520 Guys, everyone calmed down, all the markets, all the markets 0:06:56.560 --> 0:06:58.839 need to calm down. We're all gonna be okay. There's 0:06:58.880 --> 0:07:00.240 an octopus writing a shark. 0:07:00.920 --> 0:07:03.480 Maybe this is why, Maybe this is why the tariffs 0:07:03.520 --> 0:07:06.000 are Oh no, the timeline doesn't line up. Maybe this 0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:07.560 is why the tariffs went back. 0:07:08.040 --> 0:07:11.920 The dead cat bounces because of the the it's the 0:07:11.960 --> 0:07:13.440 octopus on a shark bounce. 0:07:14.040 --> 0:07:14.480 I don't know. 0:07:14.800 --> 0:07:19.360 I don't know it literally anything about investment, So I 0:07:19.400 --> 0:07:22.880 can't like it's illegal to give advice, But I can't 0:07:23.160 --> 0:07:26.480 do it either because I am good at it and 0:07:26.520 --> 0:07:27.520 no one should listen to me. 0:07:27.800 --> 0:07:30.240 But I can't even quite make jokes about it because 0:07:30.240 --> 0:07:32.400 I I don't know enough of the right words. 0:07:33.680 --> 0:07:36.520 Yeah, I'm like, hah, line goes up, line goes down. 0:07:36.960 --> 0:07:41.000 That's that's funny. It's right funny. 0:07:41.000 --> 0:07:43.640 How That is how I felt when when the game 0:07:43.720 --> 0:07:45.640 stop stuff was happening in the news too, is like 0:07:45.720 --> 0:07:48.760 I'm sure this is really funny if you understand it, 0:07:48.880 --> 0:07:49.400 But I. 0:07:49.320 --> 0:07:54.400 Don't, right, you know, I'm like, yeah, stucks, right, just 0:07:54.800 --> 0:07:59.960 those bulls and those bears. You know, does a bear 0:08:00.320 --> 0:08:02.840 poop in the Woods stock market? I don't. 0:08:02.920 --> 0:08:04.680 I don't know exactly. 0:08:04.760 --> 0:08:07.160 Yeah, I don't even do it, But I do feel 0:08:07.160 --> 0:08:09.920 like this is a good omen like that's you know, 0:08:10.200 --> 0:08:12.800 like it has to be somewhere like if you if 0:08:12.800 --> 0:08:16.680 you go back to Nostradamus and his writings on the 0:08:16.720 --> 0:08:19.280 stock market, Like he must have had something in there 0:08:19.360 --> 0:08:26.520 about it. If an animal of eight legs rides upon, uh, 0:08:27.200 --> 0:08:32.920 the sharp toothed non dolphin of the sea, the stocks 0:08:33.720 --> 0:08:36.839 better will be. I don't know, I'm just I'm just saying, 0:08:36.840 --> 0:08:37.839 maybe it's a good sign. 0:08:38.480 --> 0:08:39.760 I do think the world would be in a better 0:08:39.760 --> 0:08:42.720 place if we went back to making our decisions based 0:08:42.760 --> 0:08:45.920 on like omens and cool things that we saw in 0:08:45.920 --> 0:08:49.080 the world. Like, yeah, hundreds of years ago, if if 0:08:49.120 --> 0:08:51.240 someone had seen this, they would have said this, I 0:08:51.280 --> 0:08:53.800 have to change my entire life, like this is this 0:08:53.880 --> 0:08:56.640 is the gods speaking to me and I I have 0:08:56.679 --> 0:08:58.840 to I have to make a big change. And now 0:08:59.400 --> 0:09:00.839 now we get in your Times article about it, and 0:09:00.880 --> 0:09:02.960 maybe we should go back to basing all of our 0:09:03.320 --> 0:09:07.079 personal and geopolitical decisions on the whims of the animals. 0:09:07.280 --> 0:09:10.600 Agree, like very much. Agree. Like imagine if Alan Green 0:09:10.679 --> 0:09:13.040 Span God rest his soul. Wait, I assume he's dead. 0:09:13.080 --> 0:09:17.400 I don't know actually if he is, but you know, 0:09:17.640 --> 0:09:21.640 just like made prognostications based on like the chirps of 0:09:21.720 --> 0:09:24.640 crickets or something. I feel like we would be a 0:09:24.679 --> 0:09:28.200 lot better off because Honestly, that seems more stable than 0:09:28.240 --> 0:09:29.120 our current situation. 0:09:29.960 --> 0:09:32.120 That dude is ninety nine years old and alive. 0:09:32.520 --> 0:09:37.600 What, well, you know what, it's all those it's all 0:09:37.600 --> 0:09:41.560 that you know math. Math is good for you. 0:09:42.760 --> 0:09:47.319 That's what they say, right. Being a Republican, I think, 0:09:47.400 --> 0:09:49.800 is also good for your life span. It seems those 0:09:49.800 --> 0:09:50.960 guys live forever. 0:09:51.360 --> 0:09:54.960 Yeah, you know, it's a I think it's something to 0:09:55.040 --> 0:09:59.200 do with sort of like when you eat enough McDonald's. 0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:04.080 Not saying only Republicans eat McDonald's, I know libertarians do 0:10:04.200 --> 0:10:08.960 as well, but it's like enough McDonald's that it forms 0:10:09.000 --> 0:10:11.200 like sort of like a protective line, you know, like 0:10:11.240 --> 0:10:15.040 how old pipes like, there's like like kind of a 0:10:15.080 --> 0:10:18.840 weird lead coating, but then it it gets so covered 0:10:19.040 --> 0:10:24.400 in another coating of minerals that the lead actually the problem, 0:10:24.679 --> 0:10:28.360 right exactly. I think it's like that. But with Max. 0:10:28.920 --> 0:10:31.040 The problem with supersized me is that he didn't go 0:10:31.120 --> 0:10:33.280 far enough. If he had just exactly eating McDonald's, it 0:10:33.280 --> 0:10:35.319 would have circled all the way back around to be exactly. 0:10:35.640 --> 0:10:37.960 So that's two things you shouldn't listen to me about 0:10:38.040 --> 0:10:46.080 on this podcast. Finances or eating food. Eating food, habits, 0:10:47.640 --> 0:10:52.240 so ella. The behavior that we've observed in this octopus 0:10:52.600 --> 0:10:57.120 is technically called faesis, which sounds kind of gross, but 0:10:57.400 --> 0:11:00.240 all it means is when one organism attacks which is 0:11:00.280 --> 0:11:04.160 itself to another for travel. So this is a type 0:11:04.160 --> 0:11:11.520 of symbiosis. Usually it is a commensalistic which just means 0:11:11.559 --> 0:11:14.439 that it doesn't hurt the host, but it doesn't help 0:11:14.679 --> 0:11:18.040 the host either. It's just kind of like like with 0:11:18.080 --> 0:11:20.400 this octopus writing this shark. It doesn't seem like the 0:11:20.440 --> 0:11:23.120 octopus is doing the shark any harm, but it might 0:11:23.160 --> 0:11:26.680 not be benefiting the shark in any way unless the 0:11:26.720 --> 0:11:31.160 shark is lonely. We don't know, but yeah, yeah, so 0:11:31.320 --> 0:11:37.559 this is most common among insects. There are many species 0:11:37.720 --> 0:11:40.280 of insects who will do with this. We'll talk about 0:11:40.280 --> 0:11:45.560 that a bit later. But the sort of more famous 0:11:45.600 --> 0:11:49.360 example when it comes to sharks is not octopuses, which 0:11:49.520 --> 0:11:51.160 we don't know if this is a trend. This could 0:11:51.200 --> 0:11:56.200 be just one weird little octopus pervert who is into there. 0:11:56.960 --> 0:12:00.800 We don't know, but we do know about remort also 0:12:00.880 --> 0:12:06.239 knows as also known as suckerfish, who will attach themselves 0:12:06.280 --> 0:12:12.160 to sharks. They also attach themselves to whales, dolphins, even 0:12:12.960 --> 0:12:18.960 sea turtles, so even a raithin like a manta raise 0:12:19.920 --> 0:12:23.920 And there are many different species of ramoras, and those 0:12:23.920 --> 0:12:26.360 are those little kind of like flat looking fish that 0:12:26.440 --> 0:12:29.120 you'll often see kind of like attached to a shark, 0:12:30.720 --> 0:12:33.760 and it's seen as as kind of like interesting thing 0:12:33.800 --> 0:12:36.160 of like, whoa, the shark's really scary and dangerous, but 0:12:36.200 --> 0:12:39.520 here's this little fish that's just like kind of attaching. 0:12:39.080 --> 0:12:41.440 And you're saying they're not doing I always assumed they 0:12:41.440 --> 0:12:43.839 were doing something for the shark. There was a reason 0:12:43.880 --> 0:12:46.240 the sharks were putting up with them. That's right. 0:12:46.400 --> 0:12:50.280 No, it's a really good question actually, because the the 0:12:50.320 --> 0:12:55.000 answer to that is complicated, and the the summer is 0:12:56.240 --> 0:13:00.680 we don't really know exactly what's going on. So there's 0:13:00.720 --> 0:13:04.679 different species of remorras with different preferred hosts, from whales 0:13:04.679 --> 0:13:08.000 to turtles. The first thing is they don't actually suck 0:13:08.320 --> 0:13:10.880 onto the shark with their mouths, like I think that 0:13:10.920 --> 0:13:13.880 there's a there might be a misconception that they're sort 0:13:13.880 --> 0:13:17.760 of like attached by their mouth. They don't suck the 0:13:17.760 --> 0:13:20.480 shark's blood at all or anything like that. It's actually 0:13:20.559 --> 0:13:24.080 there the tops of their heads, so their dorsal fin 0:13:24.400 --> 0:13:29.160 is modified into a sucker shape, and they it's almost 0:13:29.200 --> 0:13:31.959 like if you put like a plunger on top of 0:13:32.000 --> 0:13:34.960 your head, sort of like but inverted, so you could 0:13:35.240 --> 0:13:39.120 sort of hang onto a wall from your head. 0:13:40.120 --> 0:13:40.720 That's awesome. 0:13:41.040 --> 0:13:44.200 Yeah, So that's how they work. So it's like a 0:13:44.240 --> 0:13:46.240 hat with a plunger on it that they can use 0:13:46.280 --> 0:13:49.960 to stick onto a shark and then they just like 0:13:50.160 --> 0:13:54.440 ride on the shark. And the what they're actually doing 0:13:54.480 --> 0:13:57.960 there is up for a little bit of debate. There's 0:13:58.000 --> 0:14:04.880 a few behaviors that researchers have seen. Some speculate that 0:14:04.880 --> 0:14:08.520 they're eating bits of food that are left over from 0:14:08.679 --> 0:14:11.600 the shark feeding. Right, that's a simple enough thing, so 0:14:11.760 --> 0:14:13.960 like they have transportation, but they also get a little 0:14:13.960 --> 0:14:17.560 bit of food. Other observations include them eating shark poop, 0:14:17.960 --> 0:14:21.960 which you know, it happens sometimes animals eat other animals poop. 0:14:23.320 --> 0:14:25.960 We can all be adults about it. But it's not 0:14:26.360 --> 0:14:30.000 like the observations have been consistent enough for that to 0:14:30.040 --> 0:14:35.360 be established as the true meaning of it's about to say, Christmas, 0:14:35.400 --> 0:14:39.160 the true meaning of the remoras attaching themselves to sharks. 0:14:39.920 --> 0:14:43.800 And there's also some theories about how they might be 0:14:43.880 --> 0:14:48.840 able to maybe loosen parasites from their skins. So maybe 0:14:48.840 --> 0:14:52.960 the remra's presence on the shark skin somehow helps reduce 0:14:53.040 --> 0:14:56.080 the amount of parasites on their skin, but that also 0:14:56.400 --> 0:15:01.640 isn't very well known, and there's even theories that the 0:15:01.760 --> 0:15:07.800 remorras might be harmful by reducing the shark's speed. Certainly 0:15:08.080 --> 0:15:11.440 in the case of dolphins, there's an idea that the 0:15:11.480 --> 0:15:14.960 presence of the remras, because dolphins like to travel pretty 0:15:15.040 --> 0:15:19.080 quickly in their pods like that, the remors might be 0:15:19.240 --> 0:15:23.320 introducing a lot of drag to the dolphin and the 0:15:23.360 --> 0:15:26.080 dolphin doesn't like this. And there's even an idea that 0:15:26.160 --> 0:15:28.360 one of the reasons dolphins jump out of the water 0:15:28.480 --> 0:15:29.400 so much is. 0:15:29.360 --> 0:15:31.480 Too to get rid of those those damn fish. 0:15:31.680 --> 0:15:34.600 Yeah, exactly, as well as any other parasites that they 0:15:34.680 --> 0:15:37.520 might have on their bodies. But again, these are all 0:15:38.080 --> 0:15:42.920 kind of speculations. It's not like there's one kind of 0:15:44.280 --> 0:15:48.080 there's not one theory in terms of whether they are 0:15:48.280 --> 0:15:51.360 good or bad for sharks or neutral, right, neutral is 0:15:51.400 --> 0:15:55.360 a totally valid option where it could just be they're 0:15:55.400 --> 0:15:57.680 not hurting the sharks, but they're also not helping the sharks, 0:15:57.720 --> 0:16:00.000 and the sharks are just like, I got other problems, 0:16:00.080 --> 0:16:01.640 so I don't need to spend a lot of time 0:16:02.480 --> 0:16:05.320 trying to remove them. Although there are sharks that sometimes 0:16:05.360 --> 0:16:07.720 will sort of like lunge out of the water, and 0:16:07.760 --> 0:16:09.600 like one of the theories is like maybe they're trying 0:16:09.640 --> 0:16:13.320 to loosen remorras once in a while when there's too 0:16:13.360 --> 0:16:17.080 many of them on there. So, yeah, it's a kind 0:16:17.120 --> 0:16:20.920 of unsatisfying answer because it's a it's a a lot 0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:25.880 of cases where there's a symbiotic relationship between two animals, 0:16:25.920 --> 0:16:29.680 it can actually be really hard to determine at what 0:16:29.800 --> 0:16:34.040 point is this harmful or helpful and is an animal 0:16:34.200 --> 0:16:37.280 tolerating it because they have no other choice, or is 0:16:37.440 --> 0:16:41.120 the the symbiote actually helping them. 0:16:41.680 --> 0:16:44.720 At what point does a symbiote become a parasite or 0:16:44.840 --> 0:16:47.840 is that a sub Are they subcategories of the other? 0:16:48.360 --> 0:16:52.360 Yes, so that's a very very good question. Symbiosis just 0:16:52.480 --> 0:16:57.640 means a long and sustained relationship between two organisms to 0:16:57.880 --> 0:17:05.280 two species, and the uh there. It can be parasitic, mutualistic, 0:17:05.480 --> 0:17:10.840 or commensialistic. Said, well, it's it's but it bears repeating 0:17:10.880 --> 0:17:16.320 because parasites actively harm their host for their own benefit. 0:17:17.880 --> 0:17:24.440 In mutualistic relationships, they both get something, and in commensialistic relationships, 0:17:25.119 --> 0:17:28.760 the symbio, the one that is attaching itself to the 0:17:28.760 --> 0:17:31.199 host or involved with the host, may get something, but 0:17:31.240 --> 0:17:34.120 it's not hurting and it's not helping the host. So 0:17:34.200 --> 0:17:38.160 there's there's three options. But and it would be really 0:17:38.280 --> 0:17:41.280 nice if animals always just fell into one little category 0:17:42.160 --> 0:17:45.920 and made things easier for us, but they don't, and 0:17:46.119 --> 0:17:48.600 it can be really difficult to actually tell the difference 0:17:48.640 --> 0:17:52.760 between like, hey, is this symbiotic relationship parasitic or is 0:17:52.760 --> 0:17:56.920 it mutualistic? It can be genuinely difficult to know what's 0:17:56.960 --> 0:17:57.360 going on. 0:17:57.480 --> 0:18:00.840 Yeah, well, it's interesting that it's seems like so much 0:18:00.840 --> 0:18:03.520 of what we're talking about today is the advantage is 0:18:03.560 --> 0:18:06.800 like migration or like like travel, because I feel like 0:18:06.840 --> 0:18:10.040 we see that a lot in plants, Like plants are 0:18:10.040 --> 0:18:12.960 always using animals to move around, and we don't think 0:18:12.960 --> 0:18:16.360 of that as weird because plants can't really move by themselves, 0:18:16.760 --> 0:18:19.280 So it's it's just interesting to see it in a 0:18:19.720 --> 0:18:22.560 like a fish that can probably it probably can swim 0:18:22.720 --> 0:18:25.000 on its own, but like not nearly as as far 0:18:25.040 --> 0:18:25.960 as this shark. 0:18:27.040 --> 0:18:30.600 Yes, so it's a really that's a really really good observation. 0:18:30.680 --> 0:18:35.480 You're absolutely correct. Actually, plants that attach themselves to animals, 0:18:35.480 --> 0:18:38.360 say like a plant that, let's sit seed burs attached 0:18:38.359 --> 0:18:40.040 to your dog's fur and then it has all these 0:18:40.080 --> 0:18:41.240 little burrs on it. 0:18:42.119 --> 0:18:42.720 All the time. 0:18:42.840 --> 0:18:49.119 Actually, yeah, that is actually an example of paresis where 0:18:49.280 --> 0:18:53.640 it is it is a plant using the animal as 0:18:53.680 --> 0:18:56.359 a type of transportation. So plants can also be in 0:18:56.480 --> 0:19:01.440 parasitic or symbiotic relationships with either animals or other plants, 0:19:01.520 --> 0:19:06.399 and so the use like riding attaching themselves onto a 0:19:06.440 --> 0:19:11.280 dog's coat is an example of symbiosis. Either. I would 0:19:11.320 --> 0:19:16.080 say that's probably example of a commensalistic relationship because I don't. 0:19:15.880 --> 0:19:17.760 Think I'm not sure the dog is getting much out 0:19:17.760 --> 0:19:18.080 of it. 0:19:18.080 --> 0:19:19.760 It's not getting anything out of it, but it's also 0:19:19.840 --> 0:19:21.080 not really hurting the dog. 0:19:21.760 --> 0:19:24.439 Sometimes the birds go in his paws and then it 0:19:24.680 --> 0:19:25.320 hurts him. 0:19:25.840 --> 0:19:30.760 Maybe that then in that case, that plant is being 0:19:30.760 --> 0:19:31.760 a big jerk. 0:19:32.680 --> 0:19:35.320 Yeah, thank you, and thank you for saying that. Not 0:19:35.400 --> 0:19:38.160 on the people have been standing up against against plant 0:19:38.200 --> 0:19:39.080 jerk plant. 0:19:39.520 --> 0:19:44.920 Right, I know, I'm like very compassionate towards h life 0:19:44.960 --> 0:19:47.880 on earth. I'm a huge hippie. When it comes to like, oh, 0:19:47.920 --> 0:19:52.160 a little spider, I will help you outdoors rather than 0:19:52.200 --> 0:19:56.040 crush you beneath my feet. When there's like any kind 0:19:56.080 --> 0:19:59.080 of like parasite on my dog, I turn into like 0:19:59.240 --> 0:20:04.800 Jigsaw from absolutely from uh from Saw Saw, and I'm like, 0:20:05.119 --> 0:20:08.680 you're going into this tube of alcohol and I will 0:20:08.680 --> 0:20:11.280 watch you die. Yeah. 0:20:11.600 --> 0:20:14.320 No, tics that are that attached to my dog or 0:20:14.320 --> 0:20:16.560 to me, to be honest, right, it's I'm gonna I'm 0:20:16.560 --> 0:20:19.560 going to to drown you in in rubbing alcohol. 0:20:19.720 --> 0:20:22.800 I'm way more tolerant of ticks that attach themselves to 0:20:22.840 --> 0:20:25.200 me because I'm like, well, I have a fighting chance 0:20:25.240 --> 0:20:27.360 because I got fingis. 0:20:26.800 --> 0:20:29.840 You got fingers, you got medicine for exactly. 0:20:29.480 --> 0:20:32.280 When they attach themselves to my dog, I'm like, she's 0:20:32.480 --> 0:20:34.919 just a little baby. She's a little baby. 0:20:35.000 --> 0:20:36.439 She doesn't know about tics. 0:20:36.600 --> 0:20:39.320 No, she can't do anything, she doesn't have fingis, and 0:20:39.359 --> 0:20:43.240 she's a little baby. So I get so angry. Anyways, 0:20:45.720 --> 0:20:48.960 your your other your other question about like the remorras, 0:20:49.080 --> 0:20:52.480 why do they attach themselves to sharks? Uh? It really 0:20:52.560 --> 0:20:56.879 is about being able to travel over long distances without 0:20:56.920 --> 0:20:58.919 having to go to the energy. I mean, it's the 0:20:58.920 --> 0:21:07.000 same reason we riding cars or bicycles or not go pros. 0:21:07.080 --> 0:21:09.879 That's not a that's not a vehicle. You know, go carts, 0:21:10.040 --> 0:21:15.359 go carts, that's a vehicle. Yeah, have our scooters whatever 0:21:15.400 --> 0:21:19.159 we've got going on out there these days. So they 0:21:19.359 --> 0:21:23.280 are Actually there's another aspect, which is that it helps 0:21:23.320 --> 0:21:29.159 them breathe. They are ram ventilators. So ram ventilators are 0:21:29.200 --> 0:21:34.480 a type of fish that breathes by moving through the water. 0:21:34.920 --> 0:21:37.879 And as they move through the water, the water enters 0:21:37.920 --> 0:21:42.320 through gill slits, runs over their gills, and then that 0:21:42.320 --> 0:21:46.360 that their gills allow for the transfer of oxygen from 0:21:46.359 --> 0:21:52.680 the water into their bloodstream. They are not obligate ram ventilators. 0:21:52.800 --> 0:21:56.320 It sounds like I'm getting into weird like engineering, but this. 0:21:56.240 --> 0:21:58.480 Is no I'm you know, I'm like, I'm about. 0:21:58.200 --> 0:22:01.280 To sell you an HVAC system for your house. 0:22:01.080 --> 0:22:04.680 But you want an obligate ventilator or do you. 0:22:04.680 --> 0:22:08.040 Want to put I'll put an obligate ram ventilator in 0:22:08.080 --> 0:22:12.360 there for you, ma'am. But you know this is a 0:22:12.480 --> 0:22:18.000 obligate ram ventilators are fish, usually sharks. There's just a 0:22:18.040 --> 0:22:20.359 few species like this where they have to keep moving, 0:22:20.359 --> 0:22:23.919 like this is the only way that they can breathe. 0:22:23.960 --> 0:22:26.520 So that's that's where that sort of myth that sharks 0:22:26.560 --> 0:22:30.280 have to keep moving or they'll die. It's not all sharks. 0:22:31.240 --> 0:22:33.560 A lot of sharks hashtag not a sharks, not all 0:22:33.600 --> 0:22:38.439 sharks hashtag uh. And some of them actually do have 0:22:38.520 --> 0:22:42.240 a different method of breathing, so like they it's the 0:22:42.240 --> 0:22:46.360 same thing as remoras actually, so remoras can do ram ventilation, 0:22:46.440 --> 0:22:52.160 but they can also do essentially active ventilation, so doing 0:22:52.200 --> 0:22:57.280 it manually pumping the water through their gills while remaining. 0:22:57.160 --> 0:23:00.000 Sort of like like breathing, like sort of like breathe. 0:23:00.240 --> 0:23:02.560 They don't have lungs, I assume, but like some mechanism 0:23:02.600 --> 0:23:03.680 to yeah. 0:23:03.520 --> 0:23:07.280 It's pull exactly. It's it's by they basically pumping the 0:23:07.320 --> 0:23:11.600 water over their gills rather than letting it passively flow 0:23:11.680 --> 0:23:14.240 over their gills. And there are a lot of shark 0:23:14.280 --> 0:23:16.639 species that can do this too, where they can they 0:23:16.720 --> 0:23:18.840 can just pump the water over their gills. There are 0:23:18.880 --> 0:23:23.040 a few species that do essentially need to keep moving 0:23:23.160 --> 0:23:25.639 because their obligate ram ventilators. But it's not like they 0:23:25.680 --> 0:23:29.040