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Speaker 1: Welcome to Creature feature production of iHeartRadio. I'm your host

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Speaker 1: of Many Parasites, Katie Golden. I studied psychology and evolutionary biology,

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Speaker 1: and today on the show, we're talking about animals who

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Speaker 1: ride on top of other animals, like a poodle on

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Speaker 1: a horse at a rodeo, except you know, not messed up.

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Speaker 1: Let's explore the exploits of octopuses, the tiniest and the

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Speaker 1: largest passengers, and we'll answer the age old question. Are

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Speaker 1: oxpeckers jerks joining me Today's comedian, writer and journalist who

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Speaker 1: has done work for some More News as well as

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Speaker 1: teen Vogue, Ella Yeerman. Welcome, Hi Katie, Hey, it's good

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Speaker 1: to see you.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: Of course, I'm super excited. I the whole reason I

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Speaker 1: picked this topic was I saw a very serious article

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Speaker 1: in the New York Times about an octopus writing a

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Speaker 1: shark like a pony, and you know, I it was.

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Speaker 1: It's just one of those beautiful moments where our world

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Speaker 1: is still messed up right now, but out there in

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Speaker 1: the ocean there's a little orange octopus riding a shark

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Speaker 1: and everything's copasetic and wonderful.

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Speaker 2: That's really beautiful. Yeah, the octopus doesn't know anything about

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Speaker 2: Donald Trump or or anything that's going on in the world.

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Speaker 1: Despite being orange, knows nothing about orange. Yeah. So, quote

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Speaker 1: unquote researchers otherwise known as perverts were stalking an innocent

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Speaker 1: mac o shark off the coast of New Zealand when

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Speaker 1: they spotted an orange blobby hat that the shark was wearing.

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Speaker 1: It turns out the hat was a Meori octopus. These

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Speaker 1: are large octopuses that grow over six feet so that's

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Speaker 1: nearly two meters in European and they can weigh almost

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Speaker 1: thirty pounds, which is around thirteen to fourteen kilograms. So

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Speaker 1: they're not tiny octopodes. That's not that's not what you

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Speaker 1: call them. They're not tiny octopus. But I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I there's it is. Actually the plural of octopuses is octopuses.

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Speaker 2: It's not octopus, not octopy because it's it's Greek and

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Speaker 2: not Latin.

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Speaker 1: It's something like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, some like something

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Speaker 1: like that.

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Speaker 2: I used to I used to know. I used to

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Speaker 2: know how that works.

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Speaker 1: Yeah I I I do my best to know as

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Speaker 1: little about grammar as I possibly can and still function. Sure,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, so it is a it is an an

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Speaker 1: octopus that seem to be cool with writing on the shark,

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Speaker 1: Like neither the shark nor the octopus seemed to be

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Speaker 1: in distress, which is interesting, right it was it didn't

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Speaker 1: seem like the octopus was like, oh crap, like I

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Speaker 1: need to stay very still otherwise this shark is going

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Speaker 1: to notice me. In fact, researchers think that the shark

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Speaker 1: was probably aware of the octopus, given that it has

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Speaker 1: sensory organs along its body that can sense pressure changes

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Speaker 1: and vibrations. So it's not like the ark didn't know

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Speaker 1: it was there because it can't see it. Also, the

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Speaker 1: shark could very easily like knock the octopus off of

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Speaker 1: its body just by swimming a little faster. So researchers

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Speaker 1: are saying, like it kind of seems like the shark's

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Speaker 1: okay with the octopus on it, and the octopus it

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Speaker 1: seems to intentionally be like riding on the shark, So

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Speaker 1: that that is the observation that was made.

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Speaker 2: That's awesome. It's it's like the opposite of the scorpion

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Speaker 2: and the toad story, right and sad. But this is

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Speaker 2: like if they if the scobeen the toad actually shook

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Speaker 2: hands and decided to cross the river right together.

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Speaker 1: Right, they crossed the river together. Everything's fine, they shake

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Speaker 1: it fine, and then the frog's like, oh crap, wait

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Speaker 1: a minute, and the scarp's like, oh dang, dude, why

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Speaker 1: did you just shake and it's his tail and you

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Speaker 1: know anyways, uh yeah, no, I mean, this is a

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Speaker 1: it is it is unusual. It's it's also unusual given

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Speaker 1: that these are not like these species don't interact very often.

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Speaker 1: So they the maco shark kind of is close usually

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Speaker 1: dwells closer to the surface of the water, whereas the

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Speaker 1: octopus spends most of its time near the seafloor. So

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Speaker 1: they don't they aren't like, they're neither sort of natural

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Speaker 1: like predator prey. They're also not natural like buddies. Right.

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Speaker 1: They don't. They don't spend a lot of time. It's

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Speaker 1: not sort of like a little Mermaid thing where the

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Speaker 1: shark's playing the octopus like a guitar or something, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: they don't. They don't hang out a lot. So the

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Speaker 1: fact that they have this really strange interaction where the

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Speaker 1: octopus is just hanging out on them like a surfboard

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Speaker 1: is super weird. It's also very weird that we happen

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Speaker 1: to see it, because it's really hard to observe stuff

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Speaker 1: in the ocean, Like, right, the ocean is so big,

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Speaker 1: it's so big, and we can't I mean, it's very wet,

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Speaker 1: so we can't be there a lot because we gotta

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Speaker 1: breathe and we can't just like hang out in the

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Speaker 1: middle of the ocean indefinitely, And so a lot of

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Speaker 1: live animal behavior in the ocean is hard to observe.

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Speaker 1: Like you'd think we'd know everything about sharks and whales

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Speaker 1: because they're so big, but we actually don't, because they

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Speaker 1: are so difficult to observe, if you, like, even if

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Speaker 1: you put a boat out there, right and have a

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Speaker 1: bunch of people sitting on the boat, researchers as these were, right,

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Speaker 1: Like these are researchers out on a boat doing research,

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Speaker 1: probably not anything related to sharks and octopuses, but they're

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Speaker 1: out there and they happen to see some behavior. It's

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Speaker 1: just going to be a tiny fraction of the total

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Speaker 1: behavior that you see.

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Speaker 2: Because, right, maybe this happens all the time, right.

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Speaker 1: We don't know, like maybe there's a whole sort of

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Speaker 1: a shark octopus uber system that.

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Speaker 2: We're unaware I of.

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Speaker 1: Uber.

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Speaker 2: The octopuses are treating the sharks like an uber, and

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Speaker 2: the sharks are treating the octopus as like a new

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Speaker 2: fashion trend. Right, it's very hip and cool if you

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Speaker 2: have an octopus.

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Speaker 1: Hat, it's a it's sort of a symbiosis of the

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Speaker 1: octopus getting transportation and the shark getting sort of high fashion,

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Speaker 1: high fashion, high frashion.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, only the most popular sharks to wear octopus are right, exactly. Well,

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Speaker 2: it's funny that makes sense that you say, like it's

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Speaker 2: really rare that we see stuff in the ocean, because

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Speaker 2: I was I'm like scrolling through this relatively short New

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Speaker 2: York Times article and it does sort of feel like

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Speaker 2: the whole article is like, isn't this cool that this happened?

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Speaker 2: And I was thinking, like, it's funny that this even

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Speaker 2: qualifies as New York Times worthy news.

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Speaker 1: They are desperate to find something that'll make anyone smile.

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Speaker 2: Sure, right, like, look a cool octopus octopus on a shark.

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Speaker 1: Guys, everyone calmed down, all the markets, all the markets

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Speaker 1: need to calm down. We're all gonna be okay. There's

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Speaker 1: an octopus writing a shark.

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Speaker 2: Maybe this is why, Maybe this is why the tariffs

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Speaker 2: are Oh no, the timeline doesn't line up. Maybe this

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Speaker 2: is why the tariffs went back.

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Speaker 1: The dead cat bounces because of the the it's the

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Speaker 1: octopus on a shark bounce.

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I don't know it literally anything about investment, So I

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Speaker 1: can't like it's illegal to give advice, But I can't

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Speaker 1: do it either because I am good at it and

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Speaker 1: no one should listen to me.

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Speaker 2: But I can't even quite make jokes about it because

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Speaker 2: I I don't know enough of the right words.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm like, hah, line goes up, line goes down.

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Speaker 1: That's that's funny. It's right funny.

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Speaker 2: How That is how I felt when when the game

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Speaker 2: stop stuff was happening in the news too, is like

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Speaker 2: I'm sure this is really funny if you understand it,

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Speaker 2: But I.

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Speaker 1: Don't, right, you know, I'm like, yeah, stucks, right, just

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Speaker 1: those bulls and those bears. You know, does a bear

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Speaker 1: poop in the Woods stock market? I don't.

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Speaker 2: I don't know exactly.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't even do it, But I do feel

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Speaker 1: like this is a good omen like that's you know,

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Speaker 1: like it has to be somewhere like if you if

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Speaker 1: you go back to Nostradamus and his writings on the

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Speaker 1: stock market, Like he must have had something in there

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Speaker 1: about it. If an animal of eight legs rides upon, uh,

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Speaker 1: the sharp toothed non dolphin of the sea, the stocks

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Speaker 1: better will be. I don't know, I'm just I'm just saying,

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Speaker 1: maybe it's a good sign.

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Speaker 2: I do think the world would be in a better

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Speaker 2: place if we went back to making our decisions based

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Speaker 2: on like omens and cool things that we saw in

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Speaker 2: the world. Like, yeah, hundreds of years ago, if if

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Speaker 2: someone had seen this, they would have said this, I

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Speaker 2: have to change my entire life, like this is this

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Speaker 2: is the gods speaking to me and I I have

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Speaker 2: to I have to make a big change. And now

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Speaker 2: now we get in your Times article about it, and

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Speaker 2: maybe we should go back to basing all of our

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Speaker 2: personal and geopolitical decisions on the whims of the animals.

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Speaker 1: Agree, like very much. Agree. Like imagine if Alan Green

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Speaker 1: Span God rest his soul. Wait, I assume he's dead.

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Speaker 1: I don't know actually if he is, but you know,

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Speaker 1: just like made prognostications based on like the chirps of

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Speaker 1: crickets or something. I feel like we would be a

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Speaker 1: lot better off because Honestly, that seems more stable than

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Speaker 1: our current situation.

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Speaker 2: That dude is ninety nine years old and alive.

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Speaker 1: What, well, you know what, it's all those it's all

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Speaker 1: that you know math. Math is good for you.

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Speaker 2: That's what they say, right. Being a Republican, I think,

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Speaker 2: is also good for your life span. It seems those

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Speaker 2: guys live forever.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it's a I think it's something to

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Speaker 1: do with sort of like when you eat enough McDonald's.

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Speaker 1: Not saying only Republicans eat McDonald's, I know libertarians do

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Speaker 1: as well, but it's like enough McDonald's that it forms

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Speaker 1: like sort of like a protective line, you know, like

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Speaker 1: how old pipes like, there's like like kind of a

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Speaker 1: weird lead coating, but then it it gets so covered

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Speaker 1: in another coating of minerals that the lead actually the problem,

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Speaker 1: right exactly. I think it's like that. But with Max.

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Speaker 2: The problem with supersized me is that he didn't go

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Speaker 2: far enough. If he had just exactly eating McDonald's, it

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Speaker 2: would have circled all the way back around to be exactly.

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Speaker 1: So that's two things you shouldn't listen to me about

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Speaker 1: on this podcast. Finances or eating food. Eating food, habits,

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Speaker 1: so ella. The behavior that we've observed in this octopus

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Speaker 1: is technically called faesis, which sounds kind of gross, but

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Speaker 1: all it means is when one organism attacks which is

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Speaker 1: itself to another for travel. So this is a type

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Speaker 1: of symbiosis. Usually it is a commensalistic which just means

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Speaker 1: that it doesn't hurt the host, but it doesn't help

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Speaker 1: the host either. It's just kind of like like with

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Speaker 1: this octopus writing this shark. It doesn't seem like the

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Speaker 1: octopus is doing the shark any harm, but it might

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Speaker 1: not be benefiting the shark in any way unless the

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Speaker 1: shark is lonely. We don't know, but yeah, yeah, so

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Speaker 1: this is most common among insects. There are many species

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Speaker 1: of insects who will do with this. We'll talk about

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Speaker 1: that a bit later. But the sort of more famous

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Speaker 1: example when it comes to sharks is not octopuses, which

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Speaker 1: we don't know if this is a trend. This could

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Speaker 1: be just one weird little octopus pervert who is into there.

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Speaker 1: We don't know, but we do know about remort also

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Speaker 1: knows as also known as suckerfish, who will attach themselves

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Speaker 1: to sharks. They also attach themselves to whales, dolphins, even

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Speaker 1: sea turtles, so even a raithin like a manta raise

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Speaker 1: And there are many different species of ramoras, and those

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Speaker 1: are those little kind of like flat looking fish that

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Speaker 1: you'll often see kind of like attached to a shark,

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Speaker 1: and it's seen as as kind of like interesting thing

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Speaker 1: of like, whoa, the shark's really scary and dangerous, but

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Speaker 1: here's this little fish that's just like kind of attaching.

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Speaker 2: And you're saying they're not doing I always assumed they

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Speaker 2: were doing something for the shark. There was a reason

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Speaker 2: the sharks were putting up with them. That's right.

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Speaker 1: No, it's a really good question actually, because the the

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Speaker 1: answer to that is complicated, and the the summer is

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Speaker 1: we don't really know exactly what's going on. So there's

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Speaker 1: different species of remorras with different preferred hosts, from whales

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Speaker 1: to turtles. The first thing is they don't actually suck

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Speaker 1: onto the shark with their mouths, like I think that

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Speaker 1: there's a there might be a misconception that they're sort

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Speaker 1: of like attached by their mouth. They don't suck the

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Speaker 1: shark's blood at all or anything like that. It's actually

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Speaker 1: there the tops of their heads, so their dorsal fin

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Speaker 1: is modified into a sucker shape, and they it's almost

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Speaker 1: like if you put like a plunger on top of

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Speaker 1: your head, sort of like but inverted, so you could

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Speaker 1: sort of hang onto a wall from your head.

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Speaker 2: That's awesome.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So that's how they work. So it's like a

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Speaker 1: hat with a plunger on it that they can use

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Speaker 1: to stick onto a shark and then they just like

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Speaker 1: ride on the shark. And the what they're actually doing

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Speaker 1: there is up for a little bit of debate. There's

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Speaker 1: a few behaviors that researchers have seen. Some speculate that

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Speaker 1: they're eating bits of food that are left over from

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Speaker 1: the shark feeding. Right, that's a simple enough thing, so

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Speaker 1: like they have transportation, but they also get a little

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Speaker 1: bit of food. Other observations include them eating shark poop,

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Speaker 1: which you know, it happens sometimes animals eat other animals poop.

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Speaker 1: We can all be adults about it. But it's not

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Speaker 1: like the observations have been consistent enough for that to

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Speaker 1: be established as the true meaning of it's about to say, Christmas,

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Speaker 1: the true meaning of the remoras attaching themselves to sharks.

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Speaker 1: And there's also some theories about how they might be

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Speaker 1: able to maybe loosen parasites from their skins. So maybe

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Speaker 1: the remra's presence on the shark skin somehow helps reduce

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Speaker 1: the amount of parasites on their skin, but that also

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Speaker 1: isn't very well known, and there's even theories that the

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Speaker 1: remorras might be harmful by reducing the shark's speed. Certainly

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Speaker 1: in the case of dolphins, there's an idea that the

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Speaker 1: presence of the remras, because dolphins like to travel pretty

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Speaker 1: quickly in their pods like that, the remors might be

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Speaker 1: introducing a lot of drag to the dolphin and the

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Speaker 1: dolphin doesn't like this. And there's even an idea that

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Speaker 1: one of the reasons dolphins jump out of the water

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Speaker 1: so much is.

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Speaker 2: Too to get rid of those those damn fish.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, as well as any other parasites that they

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Speaker 1: might have on their bodies. But again, these are all

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Speaker 1: kind of speculations. It's not like there's one kind of

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Speaker 1: there's not one theory in terms of whether they are

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Speaker 1: good or bad for sharks or neutral, right, neutral is

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Speaker 1: a totally valid option where it could just be they're

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Speaker 1: not hurting the sharks, but they're also not helping the sharks,

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Speaker 1: and the sharks are just like, I got other problems,

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Speaker 1: so I don't need to spend a lot of time

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Speaker 1: trying to remove them. Although there are sharks that sometimes

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Speaker 1: will sort of like lunge out of the water, and

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Speaker 1: like one of the theories is like maybe they're trying

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Speaker 1: to loosen remorras once in a while when there's too

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Speaker 1: many of them on there. So, yeah, it's a kind

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Speaker 1: of unsatisfying answer because it's a it's a a lot

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Speaker 1: of cases where there's a symbiotic relationship between two animals,

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Speaker 1: it can actually be really hard to determine at what

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Speaker 1: point is this harmful or helpful and is an animal

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Speaker 1: tolerating it because they have no other choice, or is

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Speaker 1: the the symbiote actually helping them.

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Speaker 2: At what point does a symbiote become a parasite or

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Speaker 2: is that a sub Are they subcategories of the other?

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Speaker 1: Yes, so that's a very very good question. Symbiosis just

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Speaker 1: means a long and sustained relationship between two organisms to

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Speaker 1: two species, and the uh there. It can be parasitic, mutualistic,

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Speaker 1: or commensialistic. Said, well, it's it's but it bears repeating

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Speaker 1: because parasites actively harm their host for their own benefit.

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Speaker 1: In mutualistic relationships, they both get something, and in commensialistic relationships,

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Speaker 1: the symbio, the one that is attaching itself to the

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Speaker 1: host or involved with the host, may get something, but

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Speaker 1: it's not hurting and it's not helping the host. So

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Speaker 1: there's there's three options. But and it would be really

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Speaker 1: nice if animals always just fell into one little category

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Speaker 1: and made things easier for us, but they don't, and

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Speaker 1: it can be really difficult to actually tell the difference

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Speaker 1: between like, hey, is this symbiotic relationship parasitic or is

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Speaker 1: it mutualistic? It can be genuinely difficult to know what's

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Speaker 1: going on.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, it's interesting that it's seems like so much

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Speaker 2: of what we're talking about today is the advantage is

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Speaker 2: like migration or like like travel, because I feel like

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Speaker 2: we see that a lot in plants, Like plants are

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Speaker 2: always using animals to move around, and we don't think

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Speaker 2: of that as weird because plants can't really move by themselves,

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Speaker 2: So it's it's just interesting to see it in a

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Speaker 2: like a fish that can probably it probably can swim

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Speaker 2: on its own, but like not nearly as as far

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Speaker 2: as this shark.

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Speaker 1: Yes, so it's a really that's a really really good observation.

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Speaker 1: You're absolutely correct. Actually, plants that attach themselves to animals,

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Speaker 1: say like a plant that, let's sit seed burs attached

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Speaker 1: to your dog's fur and then it has all these

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Speaker 1: little burrs on it.

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Speaker 2: All the time.

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Speaker 1: Actually, yeah, that is actually an example of paresis where

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Speaker 1: it is it is a plant using the animal as

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Speaker 1: a type of transportation. So plants can also be in

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Speaker 1: parasitic or symbiotic relationships with either animals or other plants,

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Speaker 1: and so the use like riding attaching themselves onto a

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Speaker 1: dog's coat is an example of symbiosis. Either. I would

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Speaker 1: say that's probably example of a commensalistic relationship because I don't.

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Speaker 2: Think I'm not sure the dog is getting much out

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Speaker 2: of it.

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Speaker 1: It's not getting anything out of it, but it's also

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Speaker 1: not really hurting the dog.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes the birds go in his paws and then it

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Speaker 2: hurts him.

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Speaker 1: Maybe that then in that case, that plant is being

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Speaker 1: a big jerk.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you, and thank you for saying that. Not

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Speaker 2: on the people have been standing up against against plant

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Speaker 2: jerk plant.

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Speaker 1: Right, I know, I'm like very compassionate towards h life

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Speaker 1: on earth. I'm a huge hippie. When it comes to like, oh,

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Speaker 1: a little spider, I will help you outdoors rather than

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Speaker 1: crush you beneath my feet. When there's like any kind

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Speaker 1: of like parasite on my dog, I turn into like

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Speaker 1: Jigsaw from absolutely from uh from Saw Saw, and I'm like,

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Speaker 1: you're going into this tube of alcohol and I will

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Speaker 1: watch you die. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: No, tics that are that attached to my dog or

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Speaker 2: to me, to be honest, right, it's I'm gonna I'm

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Speaker 2: going to to drown you in in rubbing alcohol.

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Speaker 1: I'm way more tolerant of ticks that attach themselves to

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Speaker 1: me because I'm like, well, I have a fighting chance

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Speaker 1: because I got fingis.

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Speaker 2: You got fingers, you got medicine for exactly.

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Speaker 1: When they attach themselves to my dog, I'm like, she's

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Speaker 1: just a little baby. She's a little baby.

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Speaker 2: She doesn't know about tics.

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Speaker 1: No, she can't do anything, she doesn't have fingis, and

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Speaker 1: she's a little baby. So I get so angry. Anyways,

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Speaker 1: your your other your other question about like the remorras,

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Speaker 1: why do they attach themselves to sharks? Uh? It really

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Speaker 1: is about being able to travel over long distances without

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Speaker 1: having to go to the energy. I mean, it's the

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Speaker 1: same reason we riding cars or bicycles or not go pros.

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Speaker 1: That's not a that's not a vehicle. You know, go carts,

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Speaker 1: go carts, that's a vehicle. Yeah, have our scooters whatever

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Speaker 1: we've got going on out there these days. So they

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Speaker 1: are Actually there's another aspect, which is that it helps

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Speaker 1: them breathe. They are ram ventilators. So ram ventilators are

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Speaker 1: a type of fish that breathes by moving through the water.

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Speaker 1: And as they move through the water, the water enters

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Speaker 1: through gill slits, runs over their gills, and then that

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Speaker 1: that their gills allow for the transfer of oxygen from

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Speaker 1: the water into their bloodstream. They are not obligate ram ventilators.

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Speaker 1: It sounds like I'm getting into weird like engineering, but this.

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Speaker 2: Is no I'm you know, I'm like, I'm about.

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Speaker 1: To sell you an HVAC system for your house.

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Speaker 2: But you want an obligate ventilator or do you.

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Speaker 1: Want to put I'll put an obligate ram ventilator in

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00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:12,360
Speaker 1: there for you, ma'am. But you know this is a

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Speaker 1: obligate ram ventilators are fish, usually sharks. There's just a

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Speaker 1: few species like this where they have to keep moving,

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Speaker 1: like this is the only way that they can breathe.

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Speaker 1: So that's that's where that sort of myth that sharks

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Speaker 1: have to keep moving or they'll die. It's not all sharks.

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Speaker 1: A lot of sharks hashtag not a sharks, not all

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Speaker 1: sharks hashtag uh. And some of them actually do have

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Speaker 1: a different method of breathing, so like they it's the

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Speaker 1: same thing as remoras actually, so remoras can do ram ventilation,

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Speaker 1: but they can also do essentially active ventilation, so doing

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Speaker 1: it manually pumping the water through their gills while remaining.

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00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:00,000
Speaker 2: Sort of like like breathing, like sort of like breathe.

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Speaker 2: They don't have lungs, I assume, but like some mechanism

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Speaker 2: to yeah.

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Speaker 1: It's pull exactly. It's it's by they basically pumping the

395
00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:11,600
Speaker 1: water over their gills rather than letting it passively flow

396
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Speaker 1: over their gills. And there are a lot of shark

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00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:16,639
Speaker 1: species that can do this too, where they can they

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00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:18,840
Speaker 1: can just pump the water over their gills. There are

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00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:23,040
Speaker 1: a few species that do essentially need to keep moving

400
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:25,639
Speaker 1: because their obligate ram ventilators. But it's not like they

401
00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:29,040
Speaker 1: will die as soon as they stop moving. That that

402
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:32,080
Speaker 1: part is a myth, Like that's just a you know.

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Speaker 2: I've heard that myth and I never really like thought

404
00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:37,680
Speaker 2: to question it, to be honest, I was just I think,

405
00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:39,399
Speaker 2: I don't even know if I associated with breathing in

406
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:41,600
Speaker 2: my head. I was like, oh, yeah, shark stops moving,

407
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:43,320
Speaker 2: they will just sink to the bottom of the ocean

408
00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:45,640
Speaker 2: and not be able to move it, like they won't

409
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:48,320
Speaker 2: be able to start moving again. Right, it's a momentum thing.

410
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:51,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like someone set just shoves the shark in

411
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:54,639
Speaker 1: emotion and it's like, well guess I'm going now, right.

412
00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:58,359
Speaker 1: But yeah, so it's it's actually so breathing underwater is

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00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:01,879
Speaker 1: a lot harder than breathing outside of water, which sounds

414
00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:04,840
Speaker 1: like I'm being kind of stupid here, but it's it

415
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:09,680
Speaker 1: is true. So like transferring oxygen from water to your

416
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:14,919
Speaker 1: lungs is, or for a fish, like transferring water the

417
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:19,399
Speaker 1: oxygen in the water to their blood stream is really

418
00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:24,200
Speaker 1: hard in sure comparison to breathing air. Like mammals kind

419
00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:26,360
Speaker 1: of have it going on because we can like take

420
00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:29,520
Speaker 1: in a breath get a bunch of oxygen really easily,

421
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:32,640
Speaker 1: Like breathing is not that big of a deal for us,

422
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:38,879
Speaker 1: for fish, for sharks, like for other marine animals, like

423
00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:43,400
Speaker 1: transferring oxygen to their blood stream, it takes energy more

424
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 1: so than us. It's less efficient. That's one of the

425
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:50,440
Speaker 1: reasons actually whales are so ope in terms of being

426
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:53,520
Speaker 1: sure ginormous. Is they breathe air. They don't have to

427
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:56,800
Speaker 1: deal with the transferring of oxygen from water into their lungs.

428
00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 1: They just take a huge breath of air and they

429
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:06,000
Speaker 1: store it in their massive, massive collection of blood that

430
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:08,439
Speaker 1: they have, and then they have a bunch of like

431
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:11,680
Speaker 1: richly oxygenated blood that can last for hours.

432
00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:15,040
Speaker 2: It's wild well, and that's that's why animals used to

433
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:16,600
Speaker 2: be bigger, right There used to be more oxygen in

434
00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:19,080
Speaker 2: the atmosphere. Is that true or did I make that up?

435
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:24,959
Speaker 1: It's one factor for why insects may have been bigger

436
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:28,439
Speaker 1: is that there was more oxygen. There were a lot

437
00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:30,640
Speaker 1: of other factors, though. That makes it a little bit

438
00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:35,200
Speaker 1: difficult to separate it out because for insects, they breathe

439
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 1: through spiracles, which are these little holes that kind of

440
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 1: run through their bodies. So having more oxygen in the

441
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:44,600
Speaker 1: atmosphere definitely makes it easier for them to breathe but

442
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:47,120
Speaker 1: the other factor was that we didn't have birds around.

443
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:50,320
Speaker 1: Literally that was it. Like once birds got on the scene,

444
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 1: it was like, oh damn, Like these giant dragonflies could

445
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 1: not compete with the birds with the power of birds.

446
00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:00,680
Speaker 1: So birds really messed things up for insects, out competed them,

447
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:04,639
Speaker 1: kind of took over the niche that the insects were inhabiting.

448
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:09,359
Speaker 1: But the huge amounts of oxygen definitely helped so for

449
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:13,800
Speaker 1: these remorras, because getting oxygen from underwater can be kind

450
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:17,080
Speaker 1: of a drag they know no pun intended physics drag

451
00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:22,480
Speaker 1: with anyways. So like if they are attached to a shark,

452
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:25,440
Speaker 1: basically the shark is breathing for them by moving through

453
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:28,560
Speaker 1: the water. The water flows over the remora's gills, and

454
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:30,959
Speaker 1: the remorra doesn't have to do anything. So they're just

455
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 1: they got it going on. Someone's breathing for them, someone's

456
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:39,600
Speaker 1: moving them around. Possibly they're getting food from sort of

457
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:44,240
Speaker 1: the sharks leavings or from their poop. They they have

458
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:49,160
Speaker 1: worked out a wonderful system of just passively living on

459
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:49,639
Speaker 1: a shark.

460
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:55,760
Speaker 2: That's beautiful. It is, really, I mean, I I that's

461
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:59,159
Speaker 2: something I sort of aspire to. I think is figuring

462
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:02,919
Speaker 2: out a system of passively living. Yeah, it's next to

463
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 2: a larger organism.

464
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:06,640
Speaker 1: If someone could like breathe for me, if I didn't

465
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 1: have to think about it, and like, would like just

466
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:11,680
Speaker 1: move my eyelids to like blink for me as well,

467
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:13,119
Speaker 1: that would be super right.

468
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 2: If I could. If I could figure out a weekend

469
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:18,040
Speaker 2: at Bernie's situation where I could be Bernie, but I

470
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:21,080
Speaker 2: don't have to, like I can just sort of lie.

471
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:24,479
Speaker 1: There exactly, you know exactly what I'm talking about, like

472
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:28,840
Speaker 1: being sort of a living puppet where the puppet teers

473
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:31,080
Speaker 1: are doing what I want them to do, right.

474
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 2: Right, but I don't have to think or exert any energy, right.

475
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:38,440
Speaker 1: Like I'm a kermit, but with a mind of my own,

476
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 1: and so the puppeteers are sort of doing my bidding right.

477
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:47,879
Speaker 2: And just I sort of what I'm saying is I

478
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:49,639
Speaker 2: want to be a Roman emperor and sort of carrying

479
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:51,080
Speaker 2: around on a palette all.

480
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:54,679
Speaker 1: Day, right, and then like and then also have people

481
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:57,680
Speaker 1: move my hands for me while I eat grapes and

482
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:03,360
Speaker 1: drink wine and stuff. No, exactly, that sounds great. We're

483
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:06,200
Speaker 1: going to take a quick break because I want to

484
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:08,080
Speaker 1: eat some grapes, and then if we're to get back,

485
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:11,400
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about some of the smallest furants

486
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:15,680
Speaker 1: and largest florants. Which is a great word, super cool

487
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 1: sounding or furant all right, So just as a reminder

488
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 1: of furant is an animal or plant or organism that

489
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:30,479
Speaker 1: engages in horesis, which is the act of using another

490
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:35,679
Speaker 1: animal or plant as a form of transportation. And it

491
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:40,480
Speaker 1: happens a lot in insects, particularly in some of the

492
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:45,520
Speaker 1: smallest insects, which are mites. You've probably seen mites before.

493
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 1: They're itty bitty little things. They kind of look like

494
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 1: they're related to and they sort of look like, say,

495
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 1: a tick, but they're not a tick. But they're just

496
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:01,320
Speaker 1: like these little tiny little dots and move around and

497
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:04,360
Speaker 1: there's the I forgot the poem, but it's like something

498
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 1: like little bugs have littler bugs to bite them. Yeah,

499
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 1: you know, this is kind of this is kind of

500
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 1: the thing. Mites will often be on top of other bugs,

501
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:22,600
Speaker 1: other insects, other arthropods. Mites are a type of arthropod

502
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:26,360
Speaker 1: and there's many, many, many different species of them, and

503
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 1: some of them are just straight at parasites. They'll be

504
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 1: on another insect and kind of be feeding on them.

505
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 1: But some of them are a little more benign. They

506
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:40,680
Speaker 1: are just there basically to hang out and have free

507
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:46,479
Speaker 1: transportation public might transportation. So one example of this is

508
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 1: a big word coming up, uh po kilo kairis mites,

509
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 1: pochairis mites. I don't know if that's no one's here

510
00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:58,120
Speaker 1: to fact check me out on that.

511
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:01,200
Speaker 2: It looks right, and you get it with enough confidence

512
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 2: that I believe you.

513
00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 1: Yes, the you know, of course, the Pokeylo kiris mites.

514
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:10,720
Speaker 2: Of course, of course everyone knows about the iris mites exactly.

515
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:12,480
Speaker 1: Oh you said that, good, I'm impressed.

516
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:14,239
Speaker 2: I don't Well, you did it three times first, so

517
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:15,600
Speaker 2: I got to listen.

518
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 1: Column pea mites from now on. So these are tiny

519
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:23,160
Speaker 1: orange little dots, less than a millimeter big. They're so

520
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 1: tiny a bunch of them can fit on the back

521
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:29,120
Speaker 1: of a beetle. And indeed they do like to ride beetles,

522
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:32,240
Speaker 1: not you know, the car beetles, but you know the

523
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:38,960
Speaker 1: actual insect, specifically carrion beetles. So carrying beetles locate and

524
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:42,960
Speaker 1: burry small dead animals and lay their eggs on them

525
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 1: so that their larvae can grow with a you know,

526
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 1: not entirely fresh supply of meat, but a supply of

527
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:53,640
Speaker 1: meat nonetheless. There this is a beautiful example of parental

528
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:57,840
Speaker 1: care and insects that is really rare. Like usually insects

529
00:30:57,880 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 1: just kind of like, ah, you're an egg on a

530
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 1: leaf some where, good luck. But carrion beetles take care

531
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 1: of their larva by providing them with this carefully prepared

532
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 1: larder of like a dead mouse or a dead vole.

533
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 1: And mites take advantage of this situation by riding on

534
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 1: the carrion beetle like a bus that takes them directly

535
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:26,560
Speaker 1: to dead rodent buffets. So again, just they've really got

536
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:29,160
Speaker 1: it worked out. Like it's just like a bunch of

537
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 1: people from the retirement home loading onto the shuttle to

538
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 1: go to Golden Corral or something, except Golden Corral is

539
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:38,719
Speaker 1: a dead mouse.

540
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:46,160
Speaker 2: Do the mites also eat the carrion like the like

541
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 2: the beatles do?

542
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 1: Yes, exactly, so they are not there to harm the

543
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 1: carrion beetles, larva or anything like that. They go and

544
00:31:53,920 --> 00:32:00,400
Speaker 1: they feed on the carrion. So when an an animal,

545
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:03,320
Speaker 1: this is where it gets kind of complex of like

546
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 1: are they hurting or helping the beetle. Technically, an animal

547
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 1: that steals another animal's food is called a klepto parasite.

548
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:12,960
Speaker 2: So it is.

549
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:17,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's such a good. It's easily applied in so

550
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 1: many human situationships. I just said situationships. I meant situations,

551
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 1: but I guess situations situation right either way.

552
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:32,719
Speaker 2: So in a klepto parasitic situationship.

553
00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 1: Exactly right, it's it's we've all been through it. So, uh.

554
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:41,560
Speaker 1: The the klepto parasite will steal food from another animal.

555
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:45,080
Speaker 1: A classic example of seagulls. Those are jerks. They'll like

556
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:47,760
Speaker 1: steal fish right from another animal. You may have even

557
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:51,840
Speaker 1: been a victim of a seagulls stealing your chips or

558
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 1: your sandwich or your hot dog. And they do it

559
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 1: in the wild too, So they'll like steal fish from

560
00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:02,800
Speaker 1: other seabirds, from other animals. So they are kleptoparasites. So

561
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:06,360
Speaker 1: you could say that this might could be a kleptoparasite.

562
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:10,760
Speaker 1: Where it gets kind of tricky is does the presence

563
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:15,240
Speaker 1: of the might actually reduce the amount of food that

564
00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:19,640
Speaker 1: the carryon larva need. That's not very clear. The other

565
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 1: problem is that the mites might be able to help

566
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 1: the larva by protecting the beetle larva from other kinds

567
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:35,360
Speaker 1: of like microarthropods that might actually be parasites. So by

568
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 1: kind of being there on the meat and competing with

569
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:41,400
Speaker 1: any other kind of mites that might want to directly

570
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 1: feed on the larva. The p mites might be I

571
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:49,320
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, mte a lot. I'm saying, might

572
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:54,840
Speaker 1: like a lot a lot. You know, they could possibly

573
00:33:55,320 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 1: could be protecting the beetle larva thesaurus for some other

574
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 1: word than my So it's not really known if these

575
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:09,400
Speaker 1: are parasites, if they're a mutualists, or if they're commensalistic. Again,

576
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:15,080
Speaker 1: these relationships are really hard to definitively determine because you

577
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:20,280
Speaker 1: have there's so many potential countervailing issues that are happening

578
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 1: that the say the mites. There's like some studies that

579
00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:27,440
Speaker 1: tried to look at this relationship between carrying beetles and

580
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:31,120
Speaker 1: the pe mites, and it was kind of a mixed bag.

581
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:34,600
Speaker 1: On one hand, it seemed like they did disrupt some

582
00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 1: of the presence of maybe more predatory micro arthropods, but

583
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 1: another aspect was that it didn't seem like they were

584
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:50,279
Speaker 1: actually increasing the number of larva that would reach adulthoods.

585
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:53,759
Speaker 1: So it's it's it's still kind of a question mark

586
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:54,800
Speaker 1: another way.

587
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:57,239
Speaker 2: Like I'm looking at this picture, there are so many

588
00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:00,880
Speaker 2: mites on this one beetle, Like does it not bother

589
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:02,839
Speaker 2: the beetle or like weigh them down?

590
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:05,960
Speaker 1: It could if there's enough of them, right, like that

591
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:09,239
Speaker 1: could start to hinder the Beatles movement. So it can

592
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:12,399
Speaker 1: vary from having just like you know, five of them

593
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:15,120
Speaker 1: on there to what I showed you in this picture,

594
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:17,759
Speaker 1: which is like I don't even know how many there are,

595
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:18,560
Speaker 1: maybe one hundred.

596
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:20,960
Speaker 2: It's yeah, like an upsetting amount of money.

597
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:23,400
Speaker 1: It's yeah, it's like this is not for people to

598
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:26,359
Speaker 1: look at. If you have what is it tripophobia where

599
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:29,960
Speaker 1: you don't like to see yeah, things I try to

600
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:30,359
Speaker 1: look at.

601
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:31,320
Speaker 2: Do you have that?

602
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:34,240
Speaker 1: Like this looks like one of those like gross things

603
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 1: on YouTube where I'm trying to look for ASMR or

604
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:42,160
Speaker 1: relaxing sleep sleepy time videos and then they're like, would

605
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:44,040
Speaker 1: you like to see a face with a bunch of

606
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:47,919
Speaker 1: like worms on it? And I don't, Oh, yeah, happen? Okay,

607
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 1: does that happen to you?

608
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:53,920
Speaker 2: You're looking for like the opposite of that, and it.

609
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:55,600
Speaker 1: Right, And I was wondering like, is it like does

610
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:58,760
Speaker 1: YouTube think I'm a freak? Like did I do something?

611
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:01,960
Speaker 1: Did I mess up my algorithms somehow for them to

612
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:03,720
Speaker 1: think that this is what I want to see?

613
00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:06,040
Speaker 2: But I think it's I just think it's I think

614
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 2: it's what the it's all of the algorithms, to be honest, like.

615
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, they seem to push those weird thumbnails because I

616
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:15,760
Speaker 1: turned off all the cookies I did like private browsing

617
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:17,840
Speaker 1: to like try to get away from that. Not for

618
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:21,719
Speaker 1: anything gross, don't worry, but like it was it. It

619
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:24,439
Speaker 1: kept showing up, and it's like, I guess people are

620
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:27,759
Speaker 1: looking like is this just they're very popular videos to

621
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:30,960
Speaker 1: see like maybe the shock factor. I don't really know that.

622
00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:33,279
Speaker 2: I bet the clickbait does really well. I don't know

623
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:36,879
Speaker 2: what the thought. I don't that's interesting. Yeah, I don't know.

624
00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:40,520
Speaker 1: Anyways, YouTube is really scary and looking at these beetles,

625
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:42,719
Speaker 1: it makes me think of those weird videos.

626
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:44,960
Speaker 2: That get it does feel like that, yeah, algorithm.

627
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:47,799
Speaker 1: But it depends so in some cases, yes, they can

628
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:49,840
Speaker 1: get laiden down with enough of these mites that it

629
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:52,400
Speaker 1: could hinder their movement and in that case it is harmful,

630
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 1: that would be a parasitic relationship. Sometimes it's just a

631
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 1: few of them. And another interesting thing is that when

632
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:00,480
Speaker 1: it is just a few of them, I couldn't find

633
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:04,960
Speaker 1: any research that would confirm this behavior. But like, the

634
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 1: mites are sort of this orange color, and the carrion

635
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:14,320
Speaker 1: beetles have these orange bands, and when they arrange themselves

636
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:18,480
Speaker 1: over the orange bands, they blend in really well, which

637
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:20,960
Speaker 1: makes me wonder if their color is meant to be

638
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:25,040
Speaker 1: sort of a form of camouflage where they can sit

639
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:29,960
Speaker 1: on this beetles back without being seen by potential predators.

640
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:33,120
Speaker 1: But I couldn't find any confirmation about that. That might

641
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:36,319
Speaker 1: not be true at all. But again, it's just there's

642
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:40,160
Speaker 1: so much about these you'd think again that it's like, hey,

643
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:42,840
Speaker 1: we would know everything about this relationship.

644
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:44,319
Speaker 2: Is so much going on, so.

645
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:47,640
Speaker 1: Much going on, it's a whole situationship.

646
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:48,840
Speaker 2: Exactly.

647
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:55,600
Speaker 1: So. Another example of mites are mites that are on bumblebees.

648
00:37:55,719 --> 00:38:02,200
Speaker 1: So bumblebees are my favorite little doufist just fuzzy, clumsy,

649
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:07,719
Speaker 1: the adorable airplanes of the mite world. They are, I

650
00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:11,640
Speaker 1: think because bumblebees have all that nice sort of fuzz.

651
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:15,040
Speaker 1: They're kind of big, and they're a little doo fear.

652
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:18,439
Speaker 1: They've got their they've got their life a little less

653
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:24,880
Speaker 1: together than say, honey bees certainly wasps, so bumblebees are a.

654
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:26,480
Speaker 2: Little more certainly.

655
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:29,400
Speaker 1: Was Yeah, bumblebees are kind of bimbos, a little bit

656
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:33,799
Speaker 1: himbos and bimbos. So I think that might take advantage

657
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:38,040
Speaker 1: of this to use bumblebees as a free taxi service.

658
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:41,280
Speaker 1: And the mtes will actually hang out on these flowers

659
00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:46,279
Speaker 1: like their airports and go off and on bumblebees and

660
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:51,640
Speaker 1: travel around, and then they'll go to bumblebee nests because

661
00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:54,600
Speaker 1: there are bumble bees that live in in a sort

662
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:57,359
Speaker 1: of collective living where it's a there's like a queen

663
00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:00,960
Speaker 1: bumblebee sort of like a honey bee colony, but usually

664
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:02,400
Speaker 1: quite a bit smaller.

665
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:07,000
Speaker 2: And the like a polycule situation.

666
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:13,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, something like that exactly, and a polycule polycule honeycomb situation,

667
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:19,759
Speaker 1: and so the the depending on the species and also

668
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:22,160
Speaker 1: depending on the live stage, which is wild. So like

669
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:24,799
Speaker 1: mites will go through different life stages from sort of

670
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:29,719
Speaker 1: nymphs to adults, and depending on their life stage, some

671
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 1: life stages they're more kleptoparasitics, so they actually like steal

672
00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:38,960
Speaker 1: pollen from the bumblebees. Sometimes they're more neutral or even helpful,

673
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:42,000
Speaker 1: like in their adult stages, they might actually be helpful

674
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:49,200
Speaker 1: because like, for example, the there's a parasiteliscorum, which sounds

675
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:53,920
Speaker 1: really bad, but actually this little brown mite will eat

676
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:58,839
Speaker 1: the eggs of other micro arthropods in the bumblebee nest.

677
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:02,960
Speaker 1: So basically it's helpful to the bumblebees to have in

678
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:05,920
Speaker 1: their nests. So but then in other life stages it

679
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:09,920
Speaker 1: might do more harm where it's like eating pollen so

680
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:12,360
Speaker 1: of stealing food. So it's just it's just very strange

681
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:15,879
Speaker 1: because sometimes there's like a whole a species that might

682
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:18,960
Speaker 1: be helpful to the bumblebees, or like it's only helpful

683
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:22,440
Speaker 1: like once once it's at a certain stage of its life.

684
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:24,240
Speaker 1: So very strange situation.

685
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:28,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, both bumblebees were the the animals I was thinking

686
00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 2: of first when when we were talking about like the

687
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:36,280
Speaker 2: way plants are symbiotic with like like the way that

688
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:41,600
Speaker 2: that pollen and gets spread around to planate flowers. So

689
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:43,359
Speaker 2: it's good to know that that bees are just sort

690
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:46,960
Speaker 2: of the the of the insect.

691
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:51,680
Speaker 1: Oh, it's so true. It really is. Everyone there the

692
00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:53,440
Speaker 1: town bicycles.

693
00:40:53,200 --> 00:41:00,359
Speaker 2: Right, exactly everybody wants to ride. And that's okay. I'm

694
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:00,960
Speaker 2: not judging.

695
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 1: No, we're not. We're not shaming the bees. Uh we're saying,

696
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:09,600
Speaker 1: heck yeah, bees, you get your you get your freak

697
00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:15,319
Speaker 1: on with all those flowers. So, uh, Eli, can you

698
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:18,680
Speaker 1: guess what the largest furant is because we've talked about

699
00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:20,839
Speaker 1: the tiny furants the mites, Like, what do you think

700
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:25,040
Speaker 1: is the largest furant? Meaning the largest sort of symbiote

701
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:27,600
Speaker 1: that uses another animal as transport?

702
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:31,719
Speaker 2: Is it when I picked my cat up and put

703
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:35,000
Speaker 2: her around my neck like a scarf. She doesn't like it,

704
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:38,719
Speaker 2: but she'll stay there for a little bit. You know that.

705
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:41,839
Speaker 1: It's that that's definitely giving this sort of shark wearing

706
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:45,000
Speaker 1: the octopus as a hat vibe. Yeah that you know

707
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:49,120
Speaker 1: you're you're close because it does involve humans. This is

708
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:52,600
Speaker 1: one of those stupid answers where it's like humans, it

709
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:56,960
Speaker 1: is men, it's man. The true monster was man all.

710
00:41:56,840 --> 00:42:00,879
Speaker 2: Along, the true the largest furant largest.

711
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:06,480
Speaker 1: For all along, twas us, twas us, that was the

712
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:10,080
Speaker 1: real beast. Anyways, who are we?

713
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:15,759
Speaker 2: Who are we riding a top of horses? Oh? Duh,

714
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:17,560
Speaker 2: of course.

715
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:19,680
Speaker 1: Yes, cars from the movie Cars.

716
00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:24,160
Speaker 2: Parasites in the Cars, right, We're like that.

717
00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:28,120
Speaker 1: We're like the herpes of the Pixar Car universe.

718
00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:29,839
Speaker 2: Right, and Cars is actually set in the world where

719
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:33,600
Speaker 2: they've cured They've cured their parasites, right, right.

720
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:37,240
Speaker 1: But like humans are still like sort of an std

721
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:42,200
Speaker 1: where you can catch humans from another car. Please please

722
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:46,480
Speaker 1: check out my entire series of Pixar's Car fan fiction.

723
00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:49,920
Speaker 1: It's very PG thirteen are rated.

724
00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:55,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, it sounds, it sounds incredibly titillating.

725
00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:59,640
Speaker 1: It's nasty. So we actually humans are considered four rounds

726
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:02,839
Speaker 1: because we ride on horses and we're the largest four

727
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:05,719
Speaker 1: aunt in the world. We may have actually started riding

728
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:10,680
Speaker 1: horses five thousand years ago, which is according to new

729
00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:15,600
Speaker 1: evidence found in the skeletons of ancient Yamnaya people in Eurasia,

730
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:21,839
Speaker 1: who essentially like archaeologists do kind of bone magic where

731
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:24,960
Speaker 1: they're like, oh, I can tell based on stress of

732
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 1: the bones that this skeleton rode a horse. I mean

733
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:32,759
Speaker 1: like the Sorry, it's not the skeleton wasn't riding the

734
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:36,320
Speaker 1: horse like a spooky, spooky Halloween ghost.

735
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:41,799
Speaker 2: That would be cool, but it was it packed up

736
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:42,799
Speaker 2: their bones to ride a.

737
00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:45,960
Speaker 1: Horse exactly exactly, so you could see like, hey, this

738
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:52,000
Speaker 1: has horsemen syndrome, which also sounds like some of my

739
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:55,640
Speaker 1: fan fiction. But anyways, the the bones had like certain

740
00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:59,400
Speaker 1: stress patterns caused by stress like on the muscle tissue

741
00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:02,239
Speaker 1: that would then be reflected in these marks on the bones.

742
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:06,399
Speaker 2: It's like, how when they find my bones, they're gonna

743
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:07,920
Speaker 2: be able to tell I spent twelve hours a day

744
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:08,640
Speaker 2: on my laptop.

745
00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:10,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, they're gonna be like, ah, they have

746
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:14,279
Speaker 1: the classic podcaster syndrome. You see, you can see from

747
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:17,560
Speaker 1: the curvature of the spine and the stress impact on

748
00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:22,280
Speaker 1: the butt that this person was not mobile for most

749
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:26,960
Speaker 1: of the day. Yeah exactly. But yeah, horses themselves like

750
00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:31,600
Speaker 1: were wild before they were domesticated. So now there's only

751
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:35,600
Speaker 1: one wild horse species that's still living. It's called the taxies.

752
00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:37,840
Speaker 2: For a second, I thought you were gonna tell me

753
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:39,480
Speaker 2: there was only one wild horse.

754
00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 1: There's a little one horse. Guys, there's one horse left.

755
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:44,440
Speaker 1: I don't know if you know, like if people have

756
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:48,520
Speaker 1: been paying attention to problem, but we've like literally lost

757
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:50,080
Speaker 1: all the horses.

758
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 2: One horse. He's the most special horse there is and

759
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:54,239
Speaker 2: we have to take care of him.

760
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:59,399
Speaker 1: He's so tired. But yeah, no, there there there's one

761
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:05,280
Speaker 1: extant meaning living species of wild horse called the Taki,

762
00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:08,640
Speaker 1: So I have to clarify between there's a lot of

763
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:14,120
Speaker 1: feral horses, so there's a difference between wild horse species

764
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:18,840
Speaker 1: and feral horses. So feral horses used to be domesticated

765
00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:22,920
Speaker 1: and then we're like, I'm tired of people, and then

766
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:27,120
Speaker 1: they pieced out and rewilded themselves by going back out

767
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:30,919
Speaker 1: into nature and then creating a feral population. So there's

768
00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:35,160
Speaker 1: a ton of faral horses all over the world which

769
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:38,120
Speaker 1: were like they used to be domesticated, but for hundreds

770
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:41,200
Speaker 1: or even thousands of years, they've now been rewilded, so

771
00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:44,800
Speaker 1: they're wild horses now, but they're still considered like feral

772
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:49,320
Speaker 1: horses because they used to be domesticated invescated, whereas the Takis,

773
00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:55,640
Speaker 1: the Mongolian wild horses, have never been domesticated. Some of

774
00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:57,720
Speaker 1: them might have been tamed, right, so there's a difference

775
00:45:57,719 --> 00:46:00,319
Speaker 1: between domestication and taming. So like you take I'm a

776
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:05,440
Speaker 1: wolf and we've domesticated dogs. So the Taki species of

777
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:08,200
Speaker 1: horses have not been domesticated because they have not been

778
00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:12,560
Speaker 1: selectively bred to be more amenable to us using them

779
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:16,719
Speaker 1: as transportation. But yeah, they look interesting, because so these

780
00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:20,880
Speaker 1: are the takis? Are not I keep saying talkies and

781
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:25,359
Speaker 1: it's making me hungry. So the Takis are not the

782
00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:31,160
Speaker 1: ancestor of modern domesticated horses, but they're close relative and

783
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:34,640
Speaker 1: they share a common ancestor. We don't actually know exactly

784
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:40,360
Speaker 1: what the ancestor is to domesticated horses. We don't like

785
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:43,120
Speaker 1: have sort of the exact fossil record of it.

786
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:46,040
Speaker 2: But what do we know? It seems like we don't

787
00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:46,479
Speaker 2: know shit.

788
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:49,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, we don't know a whole lot.

789
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:54,120
Speaker 2: Honestly, like we walk around, we as a species walk

790
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:57,080
Speaker 2: around with a lot of confidence for how little we know.

791
00:46:57,560 --> 00:47:03,200
Speaker 1: We do know based on cave drawings, actually that the

792
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:08,560
Speaker 1: the original horses that we probably started domesticating, we're probably

793
00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:13,359
Speaker 1: very similar to the Taki horses, the Mongolian wildhorse, at

794
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:17,720
Speaker 1: least in appearance. Based on genetic information. We don't think

795
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:21,000
Speaker 1: that the that these are like the direct ancestors, but

796
00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:24,360
Speaker 1: that they're like a later relative because of you know,

797
00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:28,400
Speaker 1: genetic shenanigans in terms of like branching off at a

798
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:30,880
Speaker 1: certain point. But yeah, we think they're very similar to

799
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:35,359
Speaker 1: the og horse in terms of their like these tan

800
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:39,120
Speaker 1: they're kind of like they're like sort of chunkier. They

801
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:44,880
Speaker 1: have short manes, and they have more like mule like faces,

802
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:48,720
Speaker 1: more rounded faces. They're they're rounder, they're kind of cute.

803
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:52,080
Speaker 1: I think I like them a lot. They're very cute looking.

804
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:55,719
Speaker 1: And so that's that's like what horses used to be

805
00:47:55,719 --> 00:47:59,160
Speaker 1: before we messed with them.

806
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:05,440
Speaker 2: That makes sense. Are we like what type of what

807
00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:09,600
Speaker 2: category of symbiotic are we with horses?

808
00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:12,960
Speaker 1: That's a super good question. It's hard to answer. I

809
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:19,360
Speaker 1: would say, you know, it's it's complicated because we've actually

810
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:24,680
Speaker 1: created a new species of right horse, which is the

811
00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:31,560
Speaker 1: domesticated horse. And I would yeah, I mean, I think

812
00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:36,320
Speaker 1: it kind of depends on your perspective because in some sense,

813
00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:42,800
Speaker 1: because we've created domesticated horses, we've facilitated this new species

814
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:47,640
Speaker 1: of horse to spread across the globe. And in that sense,

815
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:51,520
Speaker 1: I would say it's like a symbiotic relationship that is

816
00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:56,560
Speaker 1: mutualistic because we help the horses reproduce, we take care

817
00:48:56,600 --> 00:49:01,120
Speaker 1: of them, we've increased their numbers and old like the

818
00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:05,759
Speaker 1: horses that we have bred have become you know, this

819
00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:10,800
Speaker 1: like dominant species of horse and so in that sense,

820
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:14,640
Speaker 1: we've kind of it's a mixture of co evolving and

821
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:17,640
Speaker 1: one where I think that it is I wouldn't. I

822
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:20,120
Speaker 1: don't think I would describe it as a parasitic relationship

823
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:27,000
Speaker 1: because we do ultimately facilitate the horse species their survival.

824
00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:31,040
Speaker 1: That's not a This is like not like a moral

825
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:35,360
Speaker 1: sort of a a judgment or something in terms of

826
00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:37,880
Speaker 1: saying like, so it's good that we've done this to

827
00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:41,080
Speaker 1: horses or something like that. The ethical conversation about it

828
00:49:41,120 --> 00:49:44,480
Speaker 1: is completely separate. This is sort of just from the

829
00:49:44,520 --> 00:49:49,520
Speaker 1: evolutionary biology perspective of we by using horses, we made

830
00:49:49,560 --> 00:49:53,520
Speaker 1: more horses, right, But also if you're like shifting the

831
00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:58,319
Speaker 1: perspective to our relationship to the og wild horse, you

832
00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:03,359
Speaker 1: could view us as a paras because existence exactly. So

833
00:50:03,400 --> 00:50:05,960
Speaker 1: it kind of depends on how you view that and

834
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:09,759
Speaker 1: how you view sort of the connectivity of species. Like

835
00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:12,920
Speaker 1: if you breathe them out of existence, but the new

836
00:50:13,239 --> 00:50:17,120
Speaker 1: horse that you've created then is way more successful than

837
00:50:17,160 --> 00:50:21,680
Speaker 1: the original horse? Is that a you know, it's sort

838
00:50:21,719 --> 00:50:25,960
Speaker 1: of like saying like, well, human beings bred out of

839
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:32,560
Speaker 1: existence are ancestors. Is that really does that count as us?

840
00:50:32,600 --> 00:50:36,520
Speaker 1: Like killing off our ancestors because we're slightly different from

841
00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:40,320
Speaker 1: them and we outbred them. I would say probably no.

842
00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:45,560
Speaker 2: Like I guess that classic philosophical question, the Horse of Theseus.

843
00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:47,680
Speaker 1: The horse of Theseus, where you keep ripping apart a

844
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:51,160
Speaker 1: horse and replacing its horse parts with the like one

845
00:50:51,239 --> 00:50:54,840
Speaker 1: legs of zebra and then one legs like a donkey,

846
00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:57,319
Speaker 1: and then by the time you're done with it, you

847
00:50:57,360 --> 00:50:59,960
Speaker 1: actually get Donkey from Shrek, and you're like, is this

848
00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:02,359
Speaker 1: still the same horse that I started out with?

849
00:51:03,080 --> 00:51:06,759
Speaker 2: And then Eddie Murphy says yes, yes, he sounds like

850
00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:07,640
Speaker 2: Eddie Murphy, so.

851
00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:11,319
Speaker 1: He's like, yeah, we're constantly dying and living. In the

852
00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:13,120
Speaker 1: context of the new Shrek movie.

853
00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:18,239
Speaker 2: Oh god, I would love to see Shrek five be

854
00:51:18,320 --> 00:51:22,080
Speaker 2: an existentialist horror film, but I don't think dream Works

855
00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:23,439
Speaker 2: is quite brave enough.

856
00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:27,560
Speaker 1: They're cowards. They won't give us a Shrek where we

857
00:51:27,640 --> 00:51:31,359
Speaker 1: see Shrek sort of eating his son like Saturn, and

858
00:51:31,560 --> 00:51:33,080
Speaker 1: I'm sad about it.

859
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:35,080
Speaker 2: Man, that would be awesome.

860
00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:38,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, can you imagine. Anyways, we're going to take a

861
00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:41,080
Speaker 1: quick break and come up with a better Shrek, and

862
00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:43,879
Speaker 1: then when we come back, we're going to talk about

863
00:51:43,880 --> 00:51:48,080
Speaker 1: a couple of examples of animals that you might think

864
00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:51,160
Speaker 1: these seem like they would count as four aunts as

865
00:51:51,200 --> 00:51:54,200
Speaker 1: examples of Boric's but it's a little more complicated than that.

866
00:51:55,480 --> 00:51:58,080
Speaker 1: All right, So for the last two animals we're going

867
00:51:58,160 --> 00:52:00,680
Speaker 1: to talk about, were two types of animals to talk about.

868
00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:04,880
Speaker 1: These are I think if we think about like animals

869
00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:08,440
Speaker 1: that use other animals, it's transportations. These would come to

870
00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:12,479
Speaker 1: mind immediately. But the question is do they count as

871
00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:17,080
Speaker 1: four ants or not in terms of is their relationship

872
00:52:17,160 --> 00:52:23,440
Speaker 1: really primarily about transportation. So barnacles are a really interesting

873
00:52:23,600 --> 00:52:29,120
Speaker 1: example because I've seen a mix of references to them

874
00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:33,360
Speaker 1: as either it being for esis or not, and it

875
00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:35,560
Speaker 1: kind of I mean, part of the problem is these

876
00:52:35,600 --> 00:52:38,799
Speaker 1: categories again are not super rigid, but I've seen a

877
00:52:38,800 --> 00:52:41,760
Speaker 1: lot of sources saying like, no, they don't count because

878
00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:46,759
Speaker 1: barnacles are permanently attached to their host, and also they

879
00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:51,480
Speaker 1: use their host for Basically, it's not just about travel,

880
00:52:51,600 --> 00:52:55,279
Speaker 1: it's about a substrate like a home. So once it

881
00:52:55,400 --> 00:52:58,520
Speaker 1: becomes like this is my home, now, it's not really

882
00:52:58,560 --> 00:53:03,279
Speaker 1: about travel. It's like this is my this is my apartment. Uh,

883
00:53:03,320 --> 00:53:08,840
Speaker 1: this whales, this whales butt is my apartment, so they don't.

884
00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:12,560
Speaker 1: It's but you know, I've also seen it described as well, Yeah,

885
00:53:12,560 --> 00:53:15,319
Speaker 1: but they are the reason that they settle on a

886
00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:19,520
Speaker 1: whales butt and not just like other substrate is for

887
00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:22,440
Speaker 1: being able to travel at or being able to travel

888
00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:25,080
Speaker 1: around and get access to like different spots where there's

889
00:53:25,160 --> 00:53:28,200
Speaker 1: maybe more filter feeding opportunities.

890
00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:30,680
Speaker 2: Right for the for the the barnicle, it's it's like

891
00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:36,960
Speaker 2: truly about the journey, not the destination. Yeah, they're not

892
00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:39,080
Speaker 2: trying to go anywhere, They're just trying to go.

893
00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:42,200
Speaker 1: You know what. It's such a healthy life philosophy, Like

894
00:53:42,239 --> 00:53:45,319
Speaker 1: if we were all just less thinking about where we

895
00:53:45,360 --> 00:53:47,160
Speaker 1: want to be and who we want to be, we

896
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:49,760
Speaker 1: could all be a little more like the humble barnacle.

897
00:53:50,080 --> 00:53:52,160
Speaker 2: The humble barnacle, The humble Barnacle.

898
00:53:52,960 --> 00:53:55,080
Speaker 1: I got it. Just this is a little bit of

899
00:53:55,120 --> 00:53:57,560
Speaker 1: a tangent, but it's just too weird not to share.

900
00:53:57,640 --> 00:54:01,000
Speaker 1: So there's a lot of different types of arracles. There's

901
00:54:02,120 --> 00:54:06,480
Speaker 1: they're actually crustaceans. They're related to crabs. There's a bunch

902
00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:08,920
Speaker 1: of different species. They're not all sort of the little

903
00:54:09,080 --> 00:54:13,040
Speaker 1: just like bumpy wart like things that we see it,

904
00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:19,040
Speaker 1: like like whale acne. There's also long ones. There's god. Okay,

905
00:54:19,120 --> 00:54:23,239
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say this word real good. It's Zeno baileinis

906
00:54:24,360 --> 00:54:30,560
Speaker 1: globic ticis I I I did not mount, I did

907
00:54:30,560 --> 00:54:39,120
Speaker 1: not nail the landing. There Zeno baileinis globbic pictus, Yes,

908
00:54:40,080 --> 00:54:44,560
Speaker 1: globic globbic pitus. Okay, there we go.

909
00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:48,080
Speaker 2: Anyways, there's a lot of letters in there.

910
00:54:48,360 --> 00:54:51,600
Speaker 1: I'm gonna call them unholy canolis because they like, that's

911
00:54:51,640 --> 00:54:55,399
Speaker 1: what they look like. They look like weird little squash blossoms.

912
00:54:55,800 --> 00:54:59,520
Speaker 1: They're kind of long and tubular, and they attached to whales.

913
00:55:00,600 --> 00:55:04,279
Speaker 1: And then there's also species of barnacles called goose neck

914
00:55:04,360 --> 00:55:07,640
Speaker 1: barnacles that have like a long stalk and they're like

915
00:55:07,719 --> 00:55:11,080
Speaker 1: tipped in calcium plates. They look like super weird aliens.

916
00:55:12,920 --> 00:55:16,319
Speaker 1: And the weirdest thing about them is actually our misconception

917
00:55:16,480 --> 00:55:19,640
Speaker 1: of them back in medieval times, which is that because

918
00:55:19,640 --> 00:55:22,160
Speaker 1: they have this like long neck like a goose, and

919
00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:25,040
Speaker 1: because they're kind of like black and white, they're the

920
00:55:25,160 --> 00:55:29,840
Speaker 1: same coloration as a actual goose, a bird called the

921
00:55:29,960 --> 00:55:33,879
Speaker 1: barnacle goose, which is black and white, had this long neck.

922
00:55:34,640 --> 00:55:38,440
Speaker 1: But medieval people, like in Europe, didn't have a concept

923
00:55:38,520 --> 00:55:44,320
Speaker 1: about geese migrating. So they would see these barnacle geese

924
00:55:44,560 --> 00:55:48,759
Speaker 1: like the bird and not see any evidence of a

925
00:55:48,960 --> 00:55:54,719
Speaker 1: nest or eggs, but they would see goose neck barnacles.

926
00:55:54,800 --> 00:56:01,480
Speaker 1: So the crustacean this like long, weird, inanimate looking thing.

927
00:56:02,640 --> 00:56:05,040
Speaker 1: And because they had long neck, because they had the

928
00:56:05,080 --> 00:56:09,120
Speaker 1: black and white coloration, medieval people thought that the geese

929
00:56:09,719 --> 00:56:15,759
Speaker 1: spontaneously generated from the barnacles. And because they like just

930
00:56:15,840 --> 00:56:18,239
Speaker 1: couldn't find any eggs, and they couldn't fathom that maybe

931
00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:21,160
Speaker 1: the geese flew there rather than were born there.

932
00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:23,280
Speaker 2: That's so funny.

933
00:56:23,680 --> 00:56:23,879
Speaker 1: Yeah.

934
00:56:23,960 --> 00:56:27,879
Speaker 2: And then I presumably we named the geese after the barnacles,

935
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:31,640
Speaker 2: and we didn't choose the word barnacle after the geese.

936
00:56:32,320 --> 00:56:34,480
Speaker 2: That would be that would be a much crazier etymology.

937
00:56:34,680 --> 00:56:35,360
Speaker 2: I don't think so.

938
00:56:35,440 --> 00:56:39,680
Speaker 1: I think barnacle, I'll do it. I believe so because

939
00:56:39,800 --> 00:56:48,640
Speaker 1: barnacle uh an homology. I believe it has uh huh, okay,

940
00:56:48,719 --> 00:56:50,520
Speaker 1: maybe it does have something to do with the goose.

941
00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:52,360
Speaker 2: Oh my god, that's nuts.

942
00:56:52,520 --> 00:56:59,320
Speaker 1: Wait, hang on, Barnick really be oh huh you know

943
00:56:59,440 --> 00:57:07,120
Speaker 1: what actually burnac which is like Anglo Latin burnecki. There's

944
00:57:07,160 --> 00:57:11,040
Speaker 1: no way that's right, early thirteenth centuries species of northern

945
00:57:11,160 --> 00:57:17,280
Speaker 1: European wild goose meaning no way. The meaning the type

946
00:57:17,320 --> 00:57:20,640
Speaker 1: of shelf is found on clusters on submerged wood, is

947
00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:25,920
Speaker 1: attested by fifteen eighties. It is of unknown origin, despite

948
00:57:25,960 --> 00:57:32,120
Speaker 1: intense speculation. The earliest form looks like bare neck. So

949
00:57:33,080 --> 00:57:38,400
Speaker 1: barnacle might have actually first been the goose.

950
00:57:39,520 --> 00:57:42,160
Speaker 2: That's amazing, and like the goose.

951
00:57:42,600 --> 00:57:45,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, so the goose nests in the Arctic and then

952
00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:50,400
Speaker 1: returns to Europe in the winter. So Europeans, those silly

953
00:57:50,480 --> 00:57:54,000
Speaker 1: goats like never see any of the eggs that the

954
00:57:54,080 --> 00:57:56,919
Speaker 1: geese slays. They're like, where are these geese coming from?

955
00:57:57,880 --> 00:57:59,840
Speaker 2: Egg hatching from the barnacle.

956
00:58:00,160 --> 00:58:03,320
Speaker 1: They're hatching from the barnacles. So it was like they

957
00:58:03,440 --> 00:58:07,640
Speaker 1: thought that they would develop from the barnacle's shell and

958
00:58:08,280 --> 00:58:11,800
Speaker 1: like also, yeah, I guess so this etymology has even

959
00:58:11,840 --> 00:58:15,120
Speaker 1: more information. Like they they thought that like the that

960
00:58:15,360 --> 00:58:19,000
Speaker 1: the stalks of the crustaceans having this like texture that

961
00:58:19,120 --> 00:58:24,520
Speaker 1: resembled goose feathers, which is wild. So uh, they thought

962
00:58:24,640 --> 00:58:28,200
Speaker 1: that like the barnacles would grow on trees and then

963
00:58:28,320 --> 00:58:31,400
Speaker 1: fall into the ocean and then like that would cause

964
00:58:31,480 --> 00:58:34,960
Speaker 1: them to turn into geese. They were so bored back then,

965
00:58:35,320 --> 00:58:41,320
Speaker 1: like they did. They're just like they're just eating potatoes

966
00:58:41,440 --> 00:58:46,400
Speaker 1: for the you know, billianth night in a row and

967
00:58:46,440 --> 00:58:49,920
Speaker 1: they see they see a goose. They're like, where the

968
00:58:50,040 --> 00:58:51,680
Speaker 1: hell did that goose come from?

969
00:58:53,680 --> 00:58:55,760
Speaker 2: That goose looks a lot like that weird rock I

970
00:58:55,840 --> 00:58:57,080
Speaker 2: saw in the ocean.

971
00:58:57,040 --> 00:59:00,080
Speaker 1: Right, exactly like it had that thing was black and

972
00:59:00,160 --> 00:59:03,040
Speaker 1: white and long, And this thing is black and white

973
00:59:03,040 --> 00:59:08,800
Speaker 1: and long. Goose comes from the barnacle, obviously.

974
00:59:08,920 --> 00:59:11,880
Speaker 2: That which well, the again yet again another famous expression

975
00:59:11,920 --> 00:59:15,320
Speaker 2: which came first the goose or the barnacle?

976
00:59:15,440 --> 00:59:18,520
Speaker 1: Exactly. Yes, now we know where that famous expression about

977
00:59:18,800 --> 00:59:21,000
Speaker 1: the goose or the barnacle comes from. Wonderful.

978
00:59:21,120 --> 00:59:23,720
Speaker 2: My only point of reference for barnacles for a long

979
00:59:23,760 --> 00:59:27,080
Speaker 2: time was that there I used to be willing to pirates.

980
00:59:27,120 --> 00:59:30,520
Speaker 2: And and keel hauling is a method of torture that

981
00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:33,400
Speaker 2: where pirates would attach you to a rope and then

982
00:59:33,480 --> 00:59:35,240
Speaker 2: run you under the boat so that you would get

983
00:59:35,320 --> 00:59:38,320
Speaker 2: like ripped up by the barnacles on the bottom of

984
00:59:38,360 --> 00:59:41,000
Speaker 2: the boat. That they would like drop you in front

985
00:59:41,040 --> 00:59:43,520
Speaker 2: of the boat and then you would like the boat

986
00:59:43,520 --> 00:59:45,960
Speaker 2: would keep going and you get like joinked under it

987
00:59:46,080 --> 00:59:49,120
Speaker 2: and then they'd pull you back up. Oh damn, that's yeah,

988
00:59:49,120 --> 00:59:51,160
Speaker 2: it's really horrible. It's like getting.

989
00:59:51,000 --> 00:59:54,919
Speaker 1: Cheese gratered by barnacles. Oh yeah, that doesn't sound very good.

990
00:59:55,680 --> 00:59:59,720
Speaker 2: Do barnacles? Do barnacles think boats are just like terrible whales?

991
01:00:00,080 --> 01:00:01,040
Speaker 2: Is that what's happening there?

992
01:00:01,240 --> 01:00:03,760
Speaker 1: I mean they will also they would also like sort

993
01:00:03,800 --> 01:00:08,200
Speaker 1: of go on say like pieces of wood that would

994
01:00:08,280 --> 01:00:11,440
Speaker 1: fall into the water, so it wouldn't just be boats.

995
01:00:11,520 --> 01:00:13,080
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean it's just like there's a boat.

996
01:00:13,160 --> 01:00:15,160
Speaker 1: It's like I'm on this boat. Now, It's like whoa,

997
01:00:15,320 --> 01:00:21,320
Speaker 1: we're moving right. Yeah. So yeah, just like really awful

998
01:00:21,440 --> 01:00:24,640
Speaker 1: stinky whales. Probably is. I mean, barnicles don't have a

999
01:00:24,720 --> 01:00:29,920
Speaker 1: lot going on in terms of neural right, they exactly.

1000
01:00:30,680 --> 01:00:32,160
Speaker 1: So the last one I want to talk about is

1001
01:00:32,240 --> 01:00:34,800
Speaker 1: something that maybe people think of when we think about

1002
01:00:35,160 --> 01:00:38,400
Speaker 1: an animal riding a horse, and those are oxpeckers. So

1003
01:00:38,640 --> 01:00:41,880
Speaker 1: oxpeckers are one of the most famous examples of like

1004
01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:44,600
Speaker 1: animals riding on another animals because they sit on the

1005
01:00:44,720 --> 01:00:48,880
Speaker 1: backs of a ton of ungulates. Hooved animals found in

1006
01:00:49,120 --> 01:00:55,360
Speaker 1: Africa and savannahs, so zebras, rhinos kudoos, which is sort

1007
01:00:55,400 --> 01:00:59,840
Speaker 1: of an antelope like animal, will the beast, buffalo and pollod, giraffes,

1008
01:01:00,000 --> 01:01:04,200
Speaker 1: et cetera. All sorts of these megafauna found in African

1009
01:01:04,280 --> 01:01:09,840
Speaker 1: savannahs have often been observed with oxpeckers on them as

1010
01:01:09,880 --> 01:01:14,080
Speaker 1: a passenger. And oxpeckers like these other examples are really

1011
01:01:14,160 --> 01:01:19,200
Speaker 1: interesting because they blur the line between mutualism and parasitism. Now,

1012
01:01:19,280 --> 01:01:22,680
Speaker 1: the one thing about them is that seems pretty definitive

1013
01:01:22,920 --> 01:01:27,360
Speaker 1: is they are not really considered fronts, so they don't

1014
01:01:27,440 --> 01:01:31,080
Speaker 1: actually ride on the backs of these animals as transportation.

1015
01:01:31,720 --> 01:01:35,840
Speaker 1: They do it for the snacks, mostly like there's a

1016
01:01:35,920 --> 01:01:38,800
Speaker 1: lot of snacks to be had on the backs of

1017
01:01:39,000 --> 01:01:43,440
Speaker 1: say a zebra, in the form of ticks, in the

1018
01:01:43,520 --> 01:01:46,840
Speaker 1: form of botflies, which don't look that up. I beg,

1019
01:01:46,920 --> 01:01:49,360
Speaker 1: you do not google that. It's gross.

1020
01:01:49,920 --> 01:01:52,400
Speaker 2: Uh I never.

1021
01:01:54,120 --> 01:01:56,920
Speaker 1: Just so you know, botflies lay their larva under the

1022
01:01:57,000 --> 01:01:59,919
Speaker 1: skin and then they you know, develop under the skin

1023
01:02:00,080 --> 01:02:03,520
Speaker 1: and in form sort of this bolus and then hatch

1024
01:02:03,560 --> 01:02:06,880
Speaker 1: and it's gross. But the oxpecker will eat these things,

1025
01:02:06,920 --> 01:02:09,480
Speaker 1: will eat the they'll eat the ticks, and it's just

1026
01:02:09,600 --> 01:02:11,600
Speaker 1: it's like a it's like a feast. It's sort of like,

1027
01:02:11,920 --> 01:02:14,840
Speaker 1: if I don't know, the first time I've ever seen

1028
01:02:14,920 --> 01:02:18,160
Speaker 1: this is in Italy, but I'm sure this exists elsewhere.

1029
01:02:18,200 --> 01:02:22,360
Speaker 1: Which is like a dining trolley where it's like a

1030
01:02:22,520 --> 01:02:25,880
Speaker 1: tram and you're on it and they serve you dinner

1031
01:02:26,000 --> 01:02:28,760
Speaker 1: on it, but you're not really riding the tram to

1032
01:02:28,920 --> 01:02:32,320
Speaker 1: get anywhere. You're just riding it to eat dinner, which

1033
01:02:32,640 --> 01:02:36,680
Speaker 1: honestly to me sounds awful. I'm like eating dinner and

1034
01:02:36,880 --> 01:02:39,720
Speaker 1: I'm moving on a tram and it's like rumbling. The

1035
01:02:39,840 --> 01:02:43,160
Speaker 1: silverware is kind of jingling, and then I can't imagine

1036
01:02:43,200 --> 01:02:47,080
Speaker 1: the bathroom is very good. Uh So I'm starting to

1037
01:02:47,200 --> 01:02:51,080
Speaker 1: feel nauseated because, like, I'm in a small tram eating

1038
01:02:51,200 --> 01:02:53,960
Speaker 1: dinner doesn't sound great, but some.

1039
01:02:54,040 --> 01:02:54,960
Speaker 2: People like to do it.

1040
01:02:55,200 --> 01:02:57,560
Speaker 1: But that's essentially what the oxpeckers are doing. It's like

1041
01:02:57,720 --> 01:03:01,760
Speaker 1: it's like a dining experience. They don't actually really need

1042
01:03:01,840 --> 01:03:03,120
Speaker 1: to get from point A to point B.

1043
01:03:04,120 --> 01:03:07,320
Speaker 2: That makes sense, And actually, before before this podcast, that's

1044
01:03:07,440 --> 01:03:09,240
Speaker 2: sort of what I thought all of the animal like,

1045
01:03:09,280 --> 01:03:12,560
Speaker 2: I assumed that most of the animals riding on other

1046
01:03:12,600 --> 01:03:14,880
Speaker 2: animals were it was more about food than transport. I

1047
01:03:14,920 --> 01:03:17,040
Speaker 2: think of like those little birds that sit on alligators.

1048
01:03:17,040 --> 01:03:19,560
Speaker 2: Are those oxpeckers? Are those something different?

1049
01:03:19,920 --> 01:03:24,640
Speaker 1: Those? You know? It could be I think if so,

1050
01:03:24,800 --> 01:03:28,120
Speaker 1: like the little birds that like sit on I don't know,

1051
01:03:28,320 --> 01:03:30,520
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't think they would be Uh, they

1052
01:03:30,600 --> 01:03:33,120
Speaker 1: might be oxpeckers, but I think in general oxpeckers stick

1053
01:03:33,160 --> 01:03:37,240
Speaker 1: to more like terrestrial animals. But it could be. There's

1054
01:03:37,280 --> 01:03:40,320
Speaker 1: also like there there are little birds. I'm trying to

1055
01:03:40,360 --> 01:03:44,880
Speaker 1: think of the species that do hang out around alligators.

1056
01:03:44,920 --> 01:03:46,640
Speaker 1: Let me just look that up really quickly, because there's

1057
01:03:46,680 --> 01:03:49,000
Speaker 1: like an idea of them sort of picking in the

1058
01:03:49,120 --> 01:03:52,480
Speaker 1: alligator's teeth. And that has never like that was maybe

1059
01:03:52,560 --> 01:03:58,040
Speaker 1: observed once and hasn't really been established as a routine behavior.

1060
01:03:59,120 --> 01:04:01,400
Speaker 2: But it certainly it really embedded itself in my mind

1061
01:04:01,440 --> 01:04:03,280
Speaker 2: because that is what I was thinking of the bird

1062
01:04:03,360 --> 01:04:06,000
Speaker 2: and the alligators. I feel like there's a whole I

1063
01:04:06,080 --> 01:04:07,600
Speaker 2: can't I will not remember the name of it. But

1064
01:04:07,640 --> 01:04:10,880
Speaker 2: there's a children's book where an alligator uses like a

1065
01:04:10,920 --> 01:04:14,360
Speaker 2: bird as a toothbrush, like they that that imagery is really.

1066
01:04:15,040 --> 01:04:18,240
Speaker 1: Yes, I think I remember. I think I remember that

1067
01:04:18,600 --> 01:04:23,600
Speaker 1: as well. So, but it's like and that act so Okay,

1068
01:04:23,920 --> 01:04:30,200
Speaker 1: so that comes from the a plover bird. So these

1069
01:04:30,440 --> 01:04:35,560
Speaker 1: are little aquatic birds that will sit on a crocodile

1070
01:04:35,600 --> 01:04:40,240
Speaker 1: or yeah, sit on a crocodile, and sometimes they can

1071
01:04:40,280 --> 01:04:46,240
Speaker 1: be seen like maybe near their mouth. But it's I

1072
01:04:46,360 --> 01:04:50,720
Speaker 1: don't think that there's any really good evidence that plovers

1073
01:04:51,160 --> 01:04:55,720
Speaker 1: actually do dental care for crocodiles consistently. But I see

1074
01:04:55,760 --> 01:04:59,240
Speaker 1: that repeated as like an established fact, but that's not

1075
01:05:00,040 --> 01:05:02,600
Speaker 1: it's not. I don't think that's actually an established fact.

1076
01:05:03,160 --> 01:05:05,440
Speaker 1: Another example of a bird, but this is not like

1077
01:05:05,480 --> 01:05:09,280
Speaker 1: a little bird like egrets will sometimes sit I believe,

1078
01:05:09,480 --> 01:05:13,360
Speaker 1: on alligators, not on crocodiles. So like, the plovers are big, right,

1079
01:05:13,600 --> 01:05:15,680
Speaker 1: Egrets are big, though they're not the little tiny birds.

1080
01:05:15,720 --> 01:05:17,520
Speaker 1: So the plovers are the little ones that I think

1081
01:05:17,680 --> 01:05:23,760
Speaker 1: have been mythologized into like crocodile dentists, and egrets are

1082
01:05:23,920 --> 01:05:26,200
Speaker 1: sort of the big white birds with the long necks,

1083
01:05:26,680 --> 01:05:30,400
Speaker 1: and those are the ones that are will like hang

1084
01:05:30,480 --> 01:05:33,240
Speaker 1: out on alligators and kind of sit on them as

1085
01:05:33,400 --> 01:05:36,320
Speaker 1: like and actually know what, I think that might count

1086
01:05:36,480 --> 01:05:41,840
Speaker 1: as sort of a forurnt because they're just like hanging

1087
01:05:42,080 --> 01:05:45,840
Speaker 1: out on them like they're a boat or a not

1088
01:05:45,960 --> 01:05:48,880
Speaker 1: necessarily for transportation though, but maybe for like a place

1089
01:05:49,000 --> 01:05:51,760
Speaker 1: of rest. Yeah, yeah, for the like also like you know,

1090
01:05:51,920 --> 01:05:53,560
Speaker 1: like a perch for them.

1091
01:05:54,280 --> 01:05:56,240
Speaker 2: Well it's sort of like a vanity car, right, Like

1092
01:05:56,400 --> 01:05:58,560
Speaker 2: a lot of sports cars aren't super practical, but they

1093
01:05:58,680 --> 01:06:01,080
Speaker 2: look cool, soue Like.

1094
01:06:01,200 --> 01:06:05,760
Speaker 1: If it's like this, egret is picking up egret chicks,

1095
01:06:06,040 --> 01:06:08,280
Speaker 1: which has a different connotation now that I think about it.

1096
01:06:09,000 --> 01:06:14,040
Speaker 1: Egret females by cruiser babes. The babes exactly, that's what

1097
01:06:14,160 --> 01:06:21,520
Speaker 1: birds call them babes. Yeah, so the the oxpeckers actually,

1098
01:06:21,720 --> 01:06:25,600
Speaker 1: because they're feeding on parasites on top of the animals,

1099
01:06:26,040 --> 01:06:28,080
Speaker 1: you think, like, okay, so this is an example of

1100
01:06:28,400 --> 01:06:33,560
Speaker 1: a mutualistic relationship. They're both benefiting, but they also can't

1101
01:06:33,600 --> 01:06:36,280
Speaker 1: help but kind of be jerks sometimes, so like they

1102
01:06:36,360 --> 01:06:41,120
Speaker 1: will I say, like the buffalo or the zebra that

1103
01:06:41,160 --> 01:06:44,480
Speaker 1: they're sitting on has like a little wound or something.

1104
01:06:44,560 --> 01:06:47,680
Speaker 1: Maybe even like maybe they pick a parasite out, but

1105
01:06:47,760 --> 01:06:50,520
Speaker 1: then they have like a wound left behind. They'll drink

1106
01:06:50,600 --> 01:06:53,680
Speaker 1: blood from that wound and sometimes they've even been observed

1107
01:06:53,760 --> 01:06:56,120
Speaker 1: like opening up the wound more because it's like ooh,

1108
01:06:57,040 --> 01:07:01,200
Speaker 1: you know, delicious, delicious zebra juice. The drink it right,

1109
01:07:01,360 --> 01:07:05,240
Speaker 1: so they're not so innocent. And the whether or not

1110
01:07:05,280 --> 01:07:08,040
Speaker 1: they're beneficial like is again, it's one of those things

1111
01:07:08,120 --> 01:07:13,040
Speaker 1: that is really hard to tell because it's not very

1112
01:07:13,120 --> 01:07:18,240
Speaker 1: clear whether or not they're actually hurting them more than

1113
01:07:18,240 --> 01:07:20,080
Speaker 1: they're helping. There have been studies to try to look

1114
01:07:20,120 --> 01:07:24,320
Speaker 1: at whether they're actually reducing the amount of ticks on them,

1115
01:07:24,360 --> 01:07:27,560
Speaker 1: and it seems like sometimes they're just eating the ticks

1116
01:07:27,600 --> 01:07:29,920
Speaker 1: that have already had blood meals, So it's hard to

1117
01:07:29,960 --> 01:07:34,400
Speaker 1: tell whether that's like beneficial. Uh so, yeah, it's it's again,

1118
01:07:34,520 --> 01:07:36,960
Speaker 1: it's an this I feel like this episode more than

1119
01:07:37,000 --> 01:07:39,880
Speaker 1: any other episode, has really been about like how we

1120
01:07:40,000 --> 01:07:44,680
Speaker 1: don't like you mentioned, I don't really know anything, just

1121
01:07:44,800 --> 01:07:51,200
Speaker 1: like you know, sometimes that happens. Yeah, and it's weird.

1122
01:07:51,640 --> 01:07:55,640
Speaker 1: But there is one actually really cool observation that has

1123
01:07:55,680 --> 01:07:59,200
Speaker 1: been backed up by research where it is definitely a

1124
01:08:00,120 --> 01:08:05,080
Speaker 1: mutualistic relationship, and that's between oxpeckers and rhinos, because oxpeckers

1125
01:08:05,120 --> 01:08:07,160
Speaker 1: will more or less do the same thing with rhinos

1126
01:08:07,200 --> 01:08:10,160
Speaker 1: that they do with other species, picking off parasites maybe

1127
01:08:10,160 --> 01:08:15,400
Speaker 1: even sort of like eating their earwax a little bit

1128
01:08:16,439 --> 01:08:20,040
Speaker 1: and their dandruff, you know, because hey, why not? That

1129
01:08:20,160 --> 01:08:23,400
Speaker 1: actually sounds pretty like they're getting a little bird spa there.

1130
01:08:23,920 --> 01:08:28,120
Speaker 1: But the thing that really helps the rhino is that

1131
01:08:28,400 --> 01:08:32,200
Speaker 1: the oxpeckers have better vision than the rhinos, and they

1132
01:08:32,280 --> 01:08:36,920
Speaker 1: are more sensitive to seeing potential predators from far away,

1133
01:08:37,600 --> 01:08:40,479
Speaker 1: and they can see humans, and when they see humans,

1134
01:08:40,560 --> 01:08:43,320
Speaker 1: they will issue this alarm call. And for the rhino,

1135
01:08:43,439 --> 01:08:47,040
Speaker 1: that's really useful because the rhino has good hearing, it

1136
01:08:47,120 --> 01:08:49,920
Speaker 1: has pretty good sense of smell, but it doesn't have

1137
01:08:50,000 --> 01:08:53,040
Speaker 1: great visions. So the bird is actually going to spot,

1138
01:08:53,200 --> 01:08:56,040
Speaker 1: like say, a human approaching faster than the rhino will,

1139
01:08:56,320 --> 01:08:58,679
Speaker 1: and that's really important for the rhino to avoid being

1140
01:08:58,800 --> 01:09:01,519
Speaker 1: poached by a human being. Humans are going to be

1141
01:09:01,720 --> 01:09:08,320
Speaker 1: the most dangerous predator for the rhinos, so the presence

1142
01:09:08,560 --> 01:09:11,160
Speaker 1: of there have been studies that saw that the presence

1143
01:09:11,200 --> 01:09:15,040
Speaker 1: of oxpeckers on rhinos helped the rhinos spot and avoid

1144
01:09:15,160 --> 01:09:18,559
Speaker 1: humans faster than rhinos that didn't have the oxpeckers on them.

1145
01:09:18,640 --> 01:09:21,519
Speaker 1: So in this in this specific case of the rhino

1146
01:09:21,640 --> 01:09:24,800
Speaker 1: and the oxpecker, I would say this counts as a

1147
01:09:25,479 --> 01:09:28,559
Speaker 1: mutualistic relationship where they both gain a benefit.

1148
01:09:29,479 --> 01:09:31,840
Speaker 2: That's awesome. That's so cool that we know that, and

1149
01:09:31,920 --> 01:09:34,720
Speaker 2: also kind of depressing that we can we can make

1150
01:09:34,760 --> 01:09:39,360
Speaker 2: that observation, like these birds help rhinos not get murdered

1151
01:09:39,400 --> 01:09:42,200
Speaker 2: by us. But what we're still like we know that,

1152
01:09:42,320 --> 01:09:45,080
Speaker 2: but we're still doing the murdering. Yeah, I'm sure it's

1153
01:09:45,120 --> 01:09:45,880
Speaker 2: not the same humans.

1154
01:09:46,040 --> 01:09:48,200
Speaker 1: It's not the same people. For sure. It's not like

1155
01:09:48,280 --> 01:09:50,799
Speaker 1: the poacher's submitting a paper to nature.

1156
01:09:51,240 --> 01:09:53,960
Speaker 2: But like, wow, when I try to kill this rhino,

1157
01:09:54,439 --> 01:09:57,839
Speaker 2: the birds warn it and it goes really interesting.

1158
01:09:58,320 --> 01:10:00,120
Speaker 1: I mean that's like, that's kind of how like we

1159
01:10:00,240 --> 01:10:02,680
Speaker 1: used to conduct a lot of our sort of uh

1160
01:10:03,640 --> 01:10:06,479
Speaker 1: you know, natural research where it's like, ah, you know,

1161
01:10:06,640 --> 01:10:10,120
Speaker 1: like I a bunch of turtles, and in the process

1162
01:10:10,240 --> 01:10:12,280
Speaker 1: of eating a bunch of turtles, I noticed that.

1163
01:10:13,000 --> 01:10:15,360
Speaker 2: I noticed that the turtles do not like being They

1164
01:10:15,439 --> 01:10:16,759
Speaker 2: don't like it, even.

1165
01:10:16,600 --> 01:10:19,680
Speaker 1: Though they come in a bowl. Like why would they

1166
01:10:19,760 --> 01:10:21,320
Speaker 1: come in a bowl if they don't want me to

1167
01:10:21,400 --> 01:10:23,080
Speaker 1: eat them? Oh?

1168
01:10:23,360 --> 01:10:24,799
Speaker 2: That makes that so sad.

1169
01:10:25,320 --> 01:10:29,519
Speaker 1: Oh no, I I hate to I hate to tell

1170
01:10:29,600 --> 01:10:33,040
Speaker 1: people about how Charles Darwin snacked on so many of

1171
01:10:33,040 --> 01:10:37,320
Speaker 1: the animals he discovered. He's like he's the grandfather of

1172
01:10:37,960 --> 01:10:41,560
Speaker 1: evolutionary science or one of them, you know, and like

1173
01:10:42,640 --> 01:10:48,040
Speaker 1: he just went to town, like he tried like Galapagos tortoise.

1174
01:10:48,120 --> 01:10:50,560
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure he ate a bunch of animals that

1175
01:10:50,640 --> 01:10:53,160
Speaker 1: he found on the Galapagos because he's like, I mean,

1176
01:10:53,200 --> 01:10:56,000
Speaker 1: these are new animals. I'm gonna I'm gonna nibble on

1177
01:10:56,120 --> 01:11:00,400
Speaker 1: him a little bit on taste them, you know, just

1178
01:11:00,479 --> 01:11:02,360
Speaker 1: a little taste, you know.

1179
01:11:02,439 --> 01:11:05,040
Speaker 2: I hear, I hear Punnett was eating the peas too,

1180
01:11:05,320 --> 01:11:09,840
Speaker 2: So yes, goes all the way down right right?

1181
01:11:10,720 --> 01:11:10,880
Speaker 3: Uh?

1182
01:11:12,720 --> 01:11:20,479
Speaker 1: Mindel that monster. Anyways, before we go, we gotta play

1183
01:11:20,640 --> 01:11:23,679
Speaker 1: a little game called Guess Who's squawk and the Mystery

1184
01:11:23,720 --> 01:11:24,720
Speaker 1: Animal Sound Game.

1185
01:11:25,280 --> 01:11:25,400
Speaker 3: Uh.

1186
01:11:25,600 --> 01:11:27,880
Speaker 1: This is where you the guest and you the listener,

1187
01:11:27,960 --> 01:11:32,000
Speaker 1: try to guess who is making this sound. Uh. And

1188
01:11:32,240 --> 01:11:36,160
Speaker 1: so the hint for last week was this little rock

1189
01:11:36,280 --> 01:11:43,320
Speaker 1: dweller is just saying hi. Another another hint is.

1190
01:11:43,360 --> 01:11:51,200
Speaker 3: This is related to the elephant. There we go, that

1191
01:11:51,400 --> 01:11:53,679
Speaker 3: lovely little that lovely little sound.

1192
01:11:53,760 --> 01:12:01,599
Speaker 1: Let's hear it again. All right, Ell you got any guesses.

1193
01:12:02,120 --> 01:12:03,360
Speaker 2: Well, I'm thinking it's a bird.

1194
01:12:05,960 --> 01:12:08,360
Speaker 1: I did say it's related to the elephants.

1195
01:12:08,479 --> 01:12:11,120
Speaker 2: So do you want to like adjust maybe not say

1196
01:12:11,160 --> 01:12:13,840
Speaker 2: it's a bird, it's related to the elephant. You're right,

1197
01:12:13,880 --> 01:12:16,080
Speaker 2: you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right. It seems

1198
01:12:16,120 --> 01:12:22,360
Speaker 2: unlikely it's related to the elephant. I didn't know elephants

1199
01:12:22,400 --> 01:12:25,600
Speaker 2: had relatives that were living. I know about I know

1200
01:12:25,640 --> 01:12:29,720
Speaker 2: about the mammoth, but those guys aren't around, right, it's

1201
01:12:29,840 --> 01:12:35,640
Speaker 2: very strange related to the elephant. Can I hear it

1202
01:12:35,680 --> 01:12:36,160
Speaker 2: one more time?

1203
01:12:36,520 --> 01:12:36,720
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1204
01:12:39,880 --> 01:12:40,240
Speaker 3: All right?

1205
01:12:40,320 --> 01:12:48,320
Speaker 2: Wow, related to the elephant. I have no idea. I

1206
01:12:48,400 --> 01:12:51,880
Speaker 2: want to say, like something like rhinoceros related, but we

1207
01:12:52,320 --> 01:12:54,200
Speaker 2: that's mostly just because we were talking about rhinos.

1208
01:12:54,479 --> 01:12:57,040
Speaker 1: We're just talking about rhinos, so I kind of prime

1209
01:12:57,120 --> 01:13:00,160
Speaker 1: the pump for rhinos. Uh. This is actually some thing

1210
01:13:00,240 --> 01:13:04,120
Speaker 1: called a rock hierax. They are found.

1211
01:13:05,479 --> 01:13:07,439
Speaker 2: I would not have gotten that. I'm gonna be honest

1212
01:13:07,479 --> 01:13:08,040
Speaker 2: with you, Katie.

1213
01:13:08,040 --> 01:13:11,880
Speaker 1: It's just this is a pokemon that I'm randomly throwing

1214
01:13:11,880 --> 01:13:14,280
Speaker 1: out there. No, they're found in the Middle East and

1215
01:13:14,439 --> 01:13:17,720
Speaker 1: in Africa, and they're actually related to elephants. Despite the

1216
01:13:17,800 --> 01:13:20,519
Speaker 1: fact that they're only around eleven pounds, which is about

1217
01:13:20,600 --> 01:13:26,760
Speaker 1: five kilograms of pure adorable fluff, they're super cute. They

1218
01:13:27,120 --> 01:13:29,479
Speaker 1: look like a little prairie dog that has this pair

1219
01:13:29,560 --> 01:13:36,320
Speaker 1: of tiny tusks. And they eat vegetables, vegetation and grubs,

1220
01:13:36,560 --> 01:13:40,799
Speaker 1: and they are super chill animals. They're actually more Timon

1221
01:13:40,920 --> 01:13:45,200
Speaker 1: and Pumba than like the species like meerkat and warthog

1222
01:13:45,320 --> 01:13:48,240
Speaker 1: that Timon and Pumba are based on, because rock higher

1223
01:13:48,280 --> 01:13:52,800
Speaker 1: exes have a very Kumbaya egalitarian society where they like

1224
01:13:53,000 --> 01:13:55,160
Speaker 1: form groups of friends where it's like the friend of

1225
01:13:55,240 --> 01:13:58,720
Speaker 1: my friend is my friend, and they trust each other,

1226
01:13:59,080 --> 01:14:01,760
Speaker 1: and they don't establish a hierarchy. There's not like a

1227
01:14:01,880 --> 01:14:04,800
Speaker 1: dominant one. Uh. They all seem to like have this

1228
01:14:04,960 --> 01:14:07,680
Speaker 1: kind of like commune and the reason that helps them

1229
01:14:07,800 --> 01:14:11,080
Speaker 1: is that they have such a spread out territory. And

1230
01:14:11,120 --> 01:14:14,200
Speaker 1: then they also face predators that if one starts to

1231
01:14:14,280 --> 01:14:17,360
Speaker 1: send off an alarm call, that will also spread to

1232
01:14:17,479 --> 01:14:20,320
Speaker 1: its buddies, who like from kind of a distance will

1233
01:14:20,320 --> 01:14:26,320
Speaker 1: be like, oh, you know, like Jenny just told me

1234
01:14:26,479 --> 01:14:31,720
Speaker 1: that like there's a leopard around, so I'm gonna send

1235
01:14:31,760 --> 01:14:35,400
Speaker 1: out an alarm call of my own, and so that's

1236
01:14:35,560 --> 01:14:40,519
Speaker 1: a Then it forms this like cool community of little keys.

1237
01:14:40,600 --> 01:14:44,440
Speaker 2: It's amazing. And you're saying, though they're related to elephants,

1238
01:14:44,560 --> 01:14:45,840
Speaker 2: that's why they have the little teeth.

1239
01:14:46,040 --> 01:14:49,960
Speaker 1: Their teeth are very similar. Yeah, they're tiny and they're adorable,

1240
01:14:50,240 --> 01:14:53,160
Speaker 1: but yes they are. They are related to elephants. They're

1241
01:14:53,160 --> 01:14:55,600
Speaker 1: one of the few living relatives of elephants.

1242
01:14:56,240 --> 01:15:00,559
Speaker 2: That's so beautiful. Yeah they're so small. Oh about their

1243
01:15:00,640 --> 01:15:02,200
Speaker 2: large their large cousins.

1244
01:15:02,640 --> 01:15:05,960
Speaker 1: I feel like someone should tell them and they should

1245
01:15:05,960 --> 01:15:10,200
Speaker 1: all be friends. I think so too, Like can you

1246
01:15:10,320 --> 01:15:13,200
Speaker 1: imagine like these little guys riding on top of an

1247
01:15:13,240 --> 01:15:15,320
Speaker 1: elephant just being like technically.

1248
01:15:14,920 --> 01:15:18,120
Speaker 2: I'm imagining it right now and it's making me emotional.

1249
01:15:20,960 --> 01:15:21,200
Speaker 3: Wow.

1250
01:15:21,479 --> 01:15:23,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're super cute. I also just love to hear

1251
01:15:23,720 --> 01:15:26,400
Speaker 1: about like people are always like, oh, well, you know,

1252
01:15:26,520 --> 01:15:29,920
Speaker 1: it's it's only natural to have like, you know, messed

1253
01:15:30,000 --> 01:15:32,960
Speaker 1: up societies where we have hierarchies where we're all mean

1254
01:15:33,000 --> 01:15:35,080
Speaker 1: to each other, and then the rock hier axes are

1255
01:15:35,240 --> 01:15:38,679
Speaker 1: out there being like we're all buddies and we're all friends.

1256
01:15:39,880 --> 01:15:44,559
Speaker 2: This is really important. Wow, thank you very well showing

1257
01:15:44,640 --> 01:15:45,640
Speaker 2: me this animal.

1258
01:15:46,720 --> 01:15:51,920
Speaker 1: So onto this week's mystery animal sound. The hint is this, uh,

1259
01:15:52,040 --> 01:16:04,439
Speaker 1: don't try to cut into this guy for breakfast. I

1260
01:16:04,479 --> 01:16:06,280
Speaker 1: feel like this one's kind of tough, so I'm also

1261
01:16:06,360 --> 01:16:08,519
Speaker 1: going to give a country. It is from New Zealand,

1262
01:16:09,760 --> 01:16:13,880
Speaker 1: New Zealand News Islands Island.

1263
01:16:14,960 --> 01:16:19,840
Speaker 2: Is it taicho? Y t T I wouldn't cut into

1264
01:16:19,880 --> 01:16:20,639
Speaker 2: him for breakfast.

1265
01:16:22,160 --> 01:16:24,439
Speaker 1: Doesn't sound like he wants. He doesn't seem to want

1266
01:16:24,439 --> 01:16:24,600
Speaker 1: to know.

1267
01:16:28,240 --> 01:16:31,880
Speaker 2: Hmm, don't cut into this guy for breakfast. What do

1268
01:16:31,960 --> 01:16:37,600
Speaker 2: people eat for breakfast? Like eggs and also fish? Sometimes

1269
01:16:38,320 --> 01:16:43,320
Speaker 2: you're cheerios cheerios which we eat with a fork and

1270
01:16:43,520 --> 01:16:49,519
Speaker 2: night which we eat with a fork in a night. Wow,

1271
01:16:49,600 --> 01:16:52,160
Speaker 2: that was such a horrifying sound. New Zealand. New Zealand

1272
01:16:52,240 --> 01:16:54,880
Speaker 2: is adjacent to Australia, which is where all of the

1273
01:16:54,960 --> 01:17:03,880
Speaker 2: scariest animals live. Yeah, I didn't know that New Zealand

1274
01:17:03,920 --> 01:17:06,599
Speaker 2: also housed such horrors. I think.

1275
01:17:06,680 --> 01:17:08,639
Speaker 1: I mean, it has a few horrors, but it definitely

1276
01:17:08,720 --> 01:17:12,560
Speaker 1: does feel like New Zealand is sort of like a

1277
01:17:12,680 --> 01:17:16,000
Speaker 1: more fun version of Australia or a friendlier version of

1278
01:17:16,520 --> 01:17:18,880
Speaker 1: Australia when it comes to animals. But there are there

1279
01:17:18,920 --> 01:17:22,720
Speaker 1: are a few stinkers. This one's actually not is I'll

1280
01:17:22,720 --> 01:17:25,840
Speaker 1: give another hint. This one is surprisingly not as scary

1281
01:17:25,880 --> 01:17:26,479
Speaker 1: as you would think.

1282
01:17:27,280 --> 01:17:30,679
Speaker 2: Not scary. Don't cut into him for breakfast, which means

1283
01:17:30,720 --> 01:17:33,240
Speaker 2: he sort of seems like something you might eat for breakfast.

1284
01:17:33,960 --> 01:17:37,040
Speaker 1: Yes, maybe, but you don't want You probably don't, but I.

1285
01:17:37,040 --> 01:17:37,640
Speaker 2: Wouldn't want to.

1286
01:17:37,920 --> 01:17:38,880
Speaker 1: No, you probably wouldn't want to.

1287
01:17:39,320 --> 01:17:45,120
Speaker 2: Oh, man, I have no idea again, well should I?

1288
01:17:45,720 --> 01:17:46,599
Speaker 3: Uh uh?

1289
01:17:48,520 --> 01:17:48,560
Speaker 1: Like?

1290
01:17:48,800 --> 01:17:51,160
Speaker 2: Is it a mammal? I'm gonna guess mammal of some kind?

1291
01:17:51,720 --> 01:17:54,840
Speaker 1: Well, we will find out if you are correct or

1292
01:17:54,920 --> 01:18:01,200
Speaker 1: close next week on Creature Future Major Cliffhanger. Ella, thank

1293
01:18:01,280 --> 01:18:04,840
Speaker 1: you so much for joining me today. Where can people

1294
01:18:05,080 --> 01:18:07,040
Speaker 1: find you? And all the cool stuff that you do?

1295
01:18:07,880 --> 01:18:09,679
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. It's been so much fun.

1296
01:18:11,400 --> 01:18:15,160
Speaker 2: I'm on all the social media's. I'm Ella dot Yeerman

1297
01:18:15,240 --> 01:18:19,120
Speaker 2: on Instagram and Ella Yerman on Blue Sky and X

1298
01:18:19,240 --> 01:18:20,040
Speaker 2: the Everything app.

1299
01:18:20,920 --> 01:18:24,520
Speaker 1: My writing is Eggs, the everything app Eggs.

1300
01:18:24,280 --> 01:18:28,719
Speaker 2: The Everything App. My writing is all around the Internet.

1301
01:18:28,800 --> 01:18:31,360
Speaker 2: I just I wrote this profile of Vivian Wilson for

1302
01:18:31,439 --> 01:18:32,040
Speaker 2: teen Volks.

1303
01:18:32,120 --> 01:18:33,720
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, super good.

1304
01:18:33,800 --> 01:18:34,240
Speaker 2: I read it.

1305
01:18:35,280 --> 01:18:38,200
Speaker 1: It's amazing you, I mean probably everyone's heard of it

1306
01:18:38,320 --> 01:18:39,280
Speaker 1: because it was.

1307
01:18:39,800 --> 01:18:41,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been it's been all over lately.

1308
01:18:43,160 --> 01:18:44,280
Speaker 1: Fantastic profile.

1309
01:18:44,920 --> 01:18:47,559
Speaker 2: Thank you. And then yeah, I write for some more

1310
01:18:47,680 --> 01:18:51,800
Speaker 2: news on YouTube and then I also host and self

1311
01:18:51,800 --> 01:18:56,080
Speaker 2: produce another political comedy news show called Going Down with

1312
01:18:56,160 --> 01:18:59,400
Speaker 2: Ella Yeerman. Also on YouTube and Instagram and x the

1313
01:18:59,439 --> 01:18:59,920
Speaker 2: everything app.

1314
01:19:00,080 --> 01:19:04,479
Speaker 1: But I can't imagine that just sounds so pessimistic, which

1315
01:19:04,520 --> 01:19:07,080
Speaker 1: seems so out of step with like where we're at,

1316
01:19:07,240 --> 01:19:07,880
Speaker 1: you know, like.

1317
01:19:08,000 --> 01:19:12,519
Speaker 2: Going, well, yeah, you know everything everything in politics is

1318
01:19:12,600 --> 01:19:14,000
Speaker 2: so good and cheery right now.

1319
01:19:14,240 --> 01:19:17,519
Speaker 1: So cheerful, and I just I just don't understand why.

1320
01:19:17,600 --> 01:19:20,439
Speaker 1: It's like there's nowhere up, there's nowhere but up from here.

1321
01:19:20,680 --> 01:19:22,240
Speaker 2: There's nowhere but up from here.

1322
01:19:23,640 --> 01:19:27,840
Speaker 1: But I'm joking, it's a it's a you should definitely

1323
01:19:27,920 --> 01:19:32,720
Speaker 1: check these things out, like she's an incredible writer and

1324
01:19:33,439 --> 01:19:38,880
Speaker 1: a great article, great somewhere news, great YouTube, YouTube projects.

1325
01:19:40,120 --> 01:19:41,960
Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you. Yeah, it's a lot of fun.

1326
01:19:42,040 --> 01:19:43,519
Speaker 2: I think that's it. That's where you can find me.

1327
01:19:45,040 --> 01:19:48,920
Speaker 1: And yeah, if you guys want to write to me

1328
01:19:49,240 --> 01:19:52,000
Speaker 1: because you think you know who the mystery animal sound is.

1329
01:19:52,200 --> 01:19:55,120
Speaker 1: If you have a question a picture of your guinea

1330
01:19:55,200 --> 01:19:58,560
Speaker 1: pig and a cowboy hat, you could write to me

1331
01:19:58,720 --> 01:20:02,559
Speaker 1: at Creature feature pot it gmail dot com. And if

1332
01:20:02,600 --> 01:20:05,920
Speaker 1: you're enjoying the show and you leave a rating or review,

1333
01:20:06,479 --> 01:20:10,280
Speaker 1: I super appreciate that. That's really tangibly helps and I

1334
01:20:10,360 --> 01:20:13,720
Speaker 1: love seeing feedback. And thanks to the priest Classics for

1335
01:20:13,800 --> 01:20:17,679
Speaker 1: their super awesome song XO. Lumina. Creature features a production

1336
01:20:17,720 --> 01:20:21,000
Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts like the one you just heard,

1337
01:20:21,520 --> 01:20:24,719
Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcast Hard Guess what, Baby,

1338
01:20:24,800 --> 01:20:27,799
Speaker 1: listen to your favorite show. I would judge you whatever

1339
01:20:27,920 --> 01:20:28,479
Speaker 1: you want to do.

1340
01:20:28,720 --> 01:20:29,040
Speaker 3: Baby.

1341
01:20:29,320 --> 01:20:31,840
Speaker 1: It's like, let's all be rock higher axes and just

1342
01:20:32,200 --> 01:20:36,680
Speaker 1: be friends and not judge each other for podcasting platforms.

1343
01:20:37,400 --> 01:20:39,160
Speaker 1: And I'll see you next Wednesday.