1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:03,600 Speaker 1: You're listening to Ruthie's Table for in collaboration with me 2 00:00:03,680 --> 00:00:10,600 Speaker 1: and m Intelligence Style for Busy Women. Not long ago, 3 00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:14,240 Speaker 1: I adventured to the Cotswolds to spend the day with 4 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:17,880 Speaker 1: Mark Nusoon at his home. I thought I knew Mark well, 5 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:22,640 Speaker 1: but entering his house and his world, seeing what he'd created, elegant, 6 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:27,160 Speaker 1: warm spaces, incredible attention to detail, the design of a 7 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:30,240 Speaker 1: light switch, a door handle, a sofa, a bed or 8 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 1: a bath gave me a deeper insight into this remarkable person. 9 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:38,320 Speaker 1: Mark is the industrial designer of our time. The Lockheed 10 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:42,480 Speaker 1: lounge chair and just twenty five the Embryo, the Kantisky bed, 11 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:45,720 Speaker 1: the O to one see concept car for Ford, and 12 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 1: of course the Apple Watch. To day on table for 13 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:52,200 Speaker 1: Mark is in my home the River Cafe, where we'll 14 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:56,880 Speaker 1: share stories about food and family and design. Another adventure 15 00:00:57,000 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 1: with an amazing man. Did we have tye food? 16 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 2: Was it a I think we had typhood or sort 17 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:04,479 Speaker 2: of an attempt at typhood that day? 18 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:06,759 Speaker 1: Well, you lived in Japan. 19 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:08,880 Speaker 2: My family lived in Japan actually when I was a 20 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 2: kid growing up, and I lived in South Korea as well, 21 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:14,280 Speaker 2: so I spent a big chunk of my childhood, you know, 22 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:17,800 Speaker 2: traveling and living in the Far East, I guess you'd 23 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:20,959 Speaker 2: call it. So born in Sydney. In Sydney in Australia. 24 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 1: Tell me about that. 25 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:25,800 Speaker 2: Well, we lived in a multi generational, you know, household 26 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:29,479 Speaker 2: with my grandparents. My mum was you know, in her 27 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:33,479 Speaker 2: I guess early twenties at that point, but working during 28 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:34,680 Speaker 2: the days. So i'd come home. 29 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:35,600 Speaker 1: Just what did she do? 30 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:38,479 Speaker 2: You know, she did a variety of different different sorts 31 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:43,040 Speaker 2: of jobs, you know, mostly sort of secretarial kind of stuff, 32 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:45,760 Speaker 2: I suppose. But the point was that she worked, and 33 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:48,280 Speaker 2: you know, so I'd come home from school, go straight 34 00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:50,639 Speaker 2: to my grandparents' house and spend you know, an enormous 35 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:53,160 Speaker 2: amount of time with them, growing up with my grandfather 36 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:57,600 Speaker 2: and my grandmother. My grandfather, who was an immigrant. 37 00:01:57,120 --> 00:02:00,160 Speaker 1: From Greece, was her first generation in Australia, or so 38 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:00,760 Speaker 1: his parents. 39 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 2: He was born in Greece and came by himself. I 40 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 2: think he left Greece when he was about fourteen years old, 41 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:10,120 Speaker 2: as they did back in those days. I mean that 42 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:13,960 Speaker 2: must have been nineteen twenty or something like that. He 43 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 2: came to Australia. But he was a big influence on 44 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:21,520 Speaker 2: my life. There were incredible, incredible times and interestingly, you know, 45 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:25,360 Speaker 2: the one memory that stays with me till to this 46 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 2: day was, you know, my grandfather had there were two 47 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 2: spaces in this sort of household that were sort of 48 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 2: his spaces. One was the garage, stroke workshop. The other 49 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:37,200 Speaker 2: was the kitchen. My grandfather did all the cooking. 50 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:38,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, my grandfather did. 51 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 2: Yeah. My grandmother wasn't really allowed in the kitchen, but 52 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:44,079 Speaker 2: she was Australian. She was Australian of English sort of 53 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 2: Scottish descent, but she literally, you know, she barely went 54 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:51,280 Speaker 2: into the kitchen only occasionally to make tea and toast. 55 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:54,959 Speaker 2: So he would work all day, come back cook. 56 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 1: What did he do. 57 00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:01,239 Speaker 2: He had a variety of jobs through his career. I 58 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:06,639 Speaker 2: mean he owned shops in Sydney, everything from what they 59 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:09,840 Speaker 2: called milk bars, which were sort of cafes really that 60 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 2: was the sort of the local name for a cafe, 61 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:15,240 Speaker 2: which were all run by Greeks, Greek immigrants. He owned 62 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 2: a barber shop, but he wasn't a barber and he 63 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 2: ended up later in life becoming a gardener. And that 64 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 2: was you know what he did, you know, for the 65 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 2: last or twenty years of his life. He was a brilliant, 66 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:27,640 Speaker 2: you know, fantastic gardener. 67 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 1: Did he cook Greek food? 68 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:34,359 Speaker 2: I remember it as being mostly Greek in sort of origin, 69 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 2: you know, all of the sort of staple. 70 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:38,240 Speaker 1: Tell me about Greek food? What is Greek food? 71 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:42,080 Speaker 2: Well, that's a really great question. I mean, I mean, yeah, 72 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 2: when I think of Greek food, I think of things 73 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 2: like tara masalata. You know, it's more than kind of 74 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:52,160 Speaker 2: the small things. They're a mets saziki, something called squadalia, 75 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 2: which is basically like the garlicy mashed potato. I mean, 76 00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 2: it's like it literally looks like. 77 00:03:57,720 --> 00:03:59,480 Speaker 1: Mashed potato, not the one in the triangular. 78 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 2: It looks like it looks like pompure. It looks like 79 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 2: sort of mashed potato. 80 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:04,839 Speaker 1: How do you eat that? You eat that? 81 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:08,520 Speaker 2: You still have that with cod? With with I think 82 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 2: it's sometimes it's it's sort of fried cod, but sometimes 83 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 2: it's also steamed cod. And it's a really particular particular recipe. 84 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:19,120 Speaker 2: But but it's it's it's literally liquefied garlic. I mean, 85 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:23,479 Speaker 2: it's this stuff. It's it's like so strong. So they're 86 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:26,600 Speaker 2: they're the sorts of things that that I remember kind 87 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:29,560 Speaker 2: of growing up, you know, growing up with of course, 88 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:32,359 Speaker 2: you know, my half of the family, well most of 89 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 2: the family, I guess we're a sort of Anglo Saxon, right. 90 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 2: So everything that he cooked was sort of, you know, 91 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:40,920 Speaker 2: sort of watered down Greek. But there was a huge 92 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 2: Greek community in in in Sydney and in Australia, so 93 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:46,800 Speaker 2: you know, you know, Greek food was something that was 94 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:50,120 Speaker 2: not common, but it wasn't uncommon. 95 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:52,800 Speaker 1: You know in this in this world we're in right now, 96 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 1: of you know, the fear of immigration. You realize the 97 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 1: wealth that immigrants bring to a country. Absolute would Australia 98 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:02,279 Speaker 1: be with the Greek and without Greek version or. 99 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:06,159 Speaker 2: The Greeks, the Italians, the Lebanese, you know, the Mediterranean 100 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:08,920 Speaker 2: culture in fact is you know, and that's why I 101 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:12,160 Speaker 2: suppose you know, after that, you know, maybe maybe even 102 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 2: decades after that, Sydney became a bit of a kind 103 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:18,240 Speaker 2: of a food place, food place. Yeah, and it's it's 104 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 2: it's for that reason his parents stayed in Greece. Yeah, 105 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:26,240 Speaker 2: he came by himself fourteen, maybe even thirteen, that's what 106 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:28,799 Speaker 2: happened back then. You know that he was the oldest 107 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 2: of I think eight or maybe even nine children, and 108 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 2: he was sent off to you know, to to the 109 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:39,680 Speaker 2: sort of to the New World. He first went to 110 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 2: South Africa, which was the route. I mean, there are 111 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:45,560 Speaker 2: always you know, these sorts of shipping routes that and 112 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:48,960 Speaker 2: the Greeks were big sort of merchant marines, and that 113 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 2: was what they did. And he went to stay with 114 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 2: relatives who had already established themselves in South Africa. And 115 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:57,160 Speaker 2: you know, he never he came back to Greece once 116 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:00,520 Speaker 2: for the rest of his life, whole life, his whole life, 117 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 2: so I guess, you know, he never saw his parents, 118 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:06,040 Speaker 2: never saw his father ever again. But but but eventually 119 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:08,960 Speaker 2: they he brought his mother out to Australia, but she 120 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:11,920 Speaker 2: was by that point, you know, quite old, and. 121 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 1: What was it the promise of that. 122 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:15,240 Speaker 2: But I think there had been there had been precedents, 123 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:20,440 Speaker 2: you know. So my grandfather's father had already been to 124 00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:24,600 Speaker 2: Australia at the end of the nineteenth century for a 125 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 2: god there was a gold rush, you know, so he'd 126 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:29,760 Speaker 2: gone to Australia during the gold rush, made a fortune 127 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:32,600 Speaker 2: come back to Greece. So people had already been traveling, 128 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:35,599 Speaker 2: you know, to the to these far away places for 129 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:39,039 Speaker 2: you know, a generation or two before that. So it 130 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 2: was far away and it took a long time to 131 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:43,480 Speaker 2: get there, but it was it was known. But those 132 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:47,039 Speaker 2: trips took years, not weeks. You know. The island that 133 00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:50,920 Speaker 2: my grandfather came from was was is called Ithaca, and 134 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 2: all of the almost all of the people emigrated or 135 00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:58,040 Speaker 2: everybody had someone from their family that emigrated and they 136 00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:01,560 Speaker 2: went to one of three places. It was either South Africa, Australia, 137 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:05,400 Speaker 2: or the US to New York specifically. I guess maybe 138 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:07,040 Speaker 2: that's why there's an Ethacha in New. 139 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:08,760 Speaker 1: York, not far from where I live. 140 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:10,360 Speaker 2: Really, I'm from upstate New York. 141 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:11,600 Speaker 1: That's where Cornell is. 142 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, right, Richard, it's hysterical going back. I go to Ithaca. Relative. Yeah, 143 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 2: we have a house there, and at certain times of 144 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 2: the year you'll only hear American, South Africa or Australian 145 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:26,680 Speaker 2: accents because it's coming back kind of come back to, 146 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 2: you know, coming back to visit or they living here 147 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:31,600 Speaker 2: a bit of family property or something like that. It's 148 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 2: it's it's really really funny, you know. I get my 149 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 2: sort of you know, my annual dose of Australia because 150 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:39,360 Speaker 2: it is not in Australia. 151 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:43,120 Speaker 1: Tell me about growing up. Then we come home from school. 152 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 2: And my mum was was was so young, she was 153 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:48,960 Speaker 2: out working. I'd come home from school because she wouldn't 154 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 2: get home from work until sort of six or even 155 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 2: seven pm, and we'd all eat together, me, my mom, 156 00:07:56,000 --> 00:08:00,240 Speaker 2: my mother's brother, my uncle, my grandfather and grandmother. So 157 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 2: it was the five of us and we'd have, you know, 158 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:06,640 Speaker 2: kind of a family meal, and he would cook. He 159 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 2: would do everything. I mean, he was sort of slightly 160 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:10,880 Speaker 2: obsessed with the notion that if you want to do 161 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:13,080 Speaker 2: something properly, you have to do it YOURSELFLF And I'm 162 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:16,239 Speaker 2: afraid I'm sort of afflicted something like that. Yeah, yeah, sadly, 163 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 2: I can't nice for all of us do that a 164 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 2: bit of a control freak. 165 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 1: It sounds really warm and nice. It was. 166 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 2: It was fantastic. 167 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:25,680 Speaker 1: Can I ask you about your father? 168 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 2: Did you ever so my father? 169 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 1: My father left as young as your mom. 170 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:32,319 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, you know, maybe a few months older 171 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:34,439 Speaker 2: or maybe a year, but he wasn't really on the scene. 172 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:37,920 Speaker 2: I didn't meet my father until until about ten years 173 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:40,840 Speaker 2: ago actually, so he'd completely sort of disappeared when I 174 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:44,320 Speaker 2: was you know, not long after I was born, so 175 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:48,760 Speaker 2: he wasn't present at all, you know, in that period 176 00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 2: of time. But I guess, you know, my family was 177 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:54,680 Speaker 2: was was that extended family really, you know, it was 178 00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:56,280 Speaker 2: all of those people. It was you know, it was 179 00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 2: grandparents and uncle and mother and I. You know, I 180 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 2: didn't feel that I was sort of wanted for her 181 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 2: father figure as such. You know, there were plenty of 182 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:05,199 Speaker 2: men around, like my grandfather and uncle that were and 183 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:07,480 Speaker 2: they're probably quite showing me what to do. But I 184 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:10,200 Speaker 2: was always really independent anyway. You know, I'd go off 185 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:12,480 Speaker 2: and sort of make things. I was obsessed with making 186 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:13,200 Speaker 2: things making. 187 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:15,680 Speaker 1: You said that in the garage he had a workshop. 188 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 1: What was that. 189 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, the garage was really a place to fix things, 190 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 2: you know, to kind of you know, a diy space 191 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:25,560 Speaker 2: with tools and stuff, you know, I mean bits of 192 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:27,959 Speaker 2: wood and tools. And it was a place where I 193 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:32,440 Speaker 2: spent almost all of my time, you know, making things, putting, 194 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:36,520 Speaker 2: learning how to sort of build things by myself. 195 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:38,880 Speaker 1: You know, at quite an early age that you wanted to. 196 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:41,040 Speaker 2: Make that absolutely. You know, for me, making things was 197 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 2: always a means to an end though, you know, if 198 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:45,520 Speaker 2: I wanted to have something, then I kind of had 199 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 2: to make it. You know, Australia it was and maybe 200 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 2: still is, I'm not sure, a sort of a diy 201 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:53,840 Speaker 2: culture and maybe that was everywhere. 202 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 1: Actually I remember the repair shop. I remember that my 203 00:09:57,280 --> 00:09:59,079 Speaker 1: parents used to take things to be fixed. 204 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:02,360 Speaker 2: It's interesting in day job now, you know, the notion 205 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 2: that you can get something repaired is a form of luxury. 206 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:08,200 Speaker 2: Now you know that something that's not disposable, you know, 207 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:10,439 Speaker 2: something that doesn't end up on a pile of landfill, 208 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:12,200 Speaker 2: you can take it back to Louis Viton and get 209 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:14,079 Speaker 2: it repaired. But it's great. You should be able to 210 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:15,240 Speaker 2: repair what you designed. 211 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:16,760 Speaker 1: Do you think about the fact that it may have 212 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:20,000 Speaker 1: to be repaired or do you think, oh, it's a. 213 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:23,080 Speaker 2: Lot absolutely, yeah, I embrace the idea. You know, we 214 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:25,000 Speaker 2: build things, you know, we design. 215 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:27,280 Speaker 1: Things with life. 216 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 2: With the idea that they could be fixed. You know, 217 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:31,240 Speaker 2: I do a lot of work, you know, I'm designing 218 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:34,360 Speaker 2: sort of watches and time pieces and things like that 219 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 2: that they not only need to be fixed, but they 220 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:38,440 Speaker 2: need to be serviced in order to be in order 221 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:41,560 Speaker 2: to sort of function properly. And it's a notion that 222 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:44,080 Speaker 2: now that especially sort of younger generations of people, you 223 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 2: know you don't you don't think that you've got to 224 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:51,840 Speaker 2: get things oiled and you know, greased and serviced basically, 225 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:53,880 Speaker 2: I mean as a designer. For me, one of the 226 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:58,040 Speaker 2: one of the greatest attributes that a product can have 227 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:00,840 Speaker 2: is that you know, you can buy ones and have 228 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:03,960 Speaker 2: it forever. Yeah, you know. I love the idea that 229 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:08,200 Speaker 2: you buy a pen, you know, your favorite pen, and 230 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:10,320 Speaker 2: that'll be the pen unless you lose it, of course, 231 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:12,439 Speaker 2: which is that's my problem, which is my problem too. 232 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:14,920 Speaker 1: Can we solve that one? Maybe that would be like 233 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:17,959 Speaker 1: the repair shop, but you get the find it. Yeah, 234 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:19,079 Speaker 1: we need finding things. 235 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:21,640 Speaker 2: It's just like Apple need to make a much smaller 236 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:22,880 Speaker 2: air tag for all of these things. 237 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:23,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, there's things. 238 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:24,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, I know people as well. 239 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 1: People. Where is that friend I at? 240 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:29,079 Speaker 2: Where's that child? Child? 241 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 1: Daughter? Where is that? Okay? So going back to this 242 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:38,200 Speaker 1: growing up in Australia. 243 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:40,440 Speaker 2: Because it's quite traditional, you know, it was Mundane's maybe 244 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:42,559 Speaker 2: too strong a word, but it was. It was. It was. 245 00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:44,760 Speaker 2: It felt reasonably sort of run of the mill. But 246 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 2: when I was about seven or eight, I can't remember, 247 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 2: my mother got a job. She was working in an 248 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:56,200 Speaker 2: architect's office actually, and she these these architects built created 249 00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:58,959 Speaker 2: I guess what was what ended up becoming one of 250 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 2: the very first sort of boots hotels in maybe in 251 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:05,320 Speaker 2: the southern Hemisphere. We're talking kind of late sixties, early seventies. 252 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 2: And it was in a place called Cairns, which is 253 00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:11,920 Speaker 2: like the far far north of Australia, completely tropical. I 254 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 2: mean it's like in the middle of nowhere's and they 255 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:17,960 Speaker 2: created this sort little boutique hotel and they sent my 256 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 2: mum and obviously me to go and run this little 257 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:25,600 Speaker 2: boutique hotel. We drive up in a Coombi van of 258 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:28,040 Speaker 2: e W Comby van with our dog and it was 259 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:31,040 Speaker 2: so cool. A lot of the furniture was designed by 260 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 2: Joe Colombo. I mean, it was incredibly cool, this place 261 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:36,840 Speaker 2: in the middle of nowhere. You know, celebrities like brit 262 00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:41,000 Speaker 2: Eckland would come and stay in libav and I can remember, Yeah, 263 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:44,720 Speaker 2: And they engaged. They engaged a French chef who came 264 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:48,200 Speaker 2: out with her husband Jule. Her name was Georgette. She 265 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:51,040 Speaker 2: came from France to live there, and she was kind 266 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:52,920 Speaker 2: of a hippie. But that was my first exposure to 267 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:56,199 Speaker 2: sort of anything other than sort of sort of like 268 00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:57,400 Speaker 2: French cuisine. 269 00:12:57,960 --> 00:12:58,640 Speaker 1: Do you remember it? 270 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:02,560 Speaker 2: Absolute? I remember that, and I remember her chainsmoking gore 271 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 2: was you know, no, but that then that was the 272 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:05,640 Speaker 2: sort of. 273 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:06,599 Speaker 1: How long were you there for? 274 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:08,880 Speaker 2: I think we were there for about eighteen months. It 275 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:11,480 Speaker 2: felt like a lifetime, but it was, you know, a 276 00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:12,960 Speaker 2: relatively short period of time. 277 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:14,400 Speaker 1: And he went to school there. Yeah. 278 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:15,839 Speaker 2: I went to school in the middle of a cane 279 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:18,360 Speaker 2: field on the back of a Bedford you know. The 280 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 2: school bus was a Bedford lorry. 281 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:21,640 Speaker 1: Like the wild West. 282 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:24,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was, it was. It was bonkers. 283 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:36,040 Speaker 1: Did you also make a watch? 284 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, I modified a watch. I didn't touch the insides, 285 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:40,800 Speaker 2: so I was given a watch actually one of the 286 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:43,760 Speaker 2: maybe it was my first watch, just not long after 287 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:45,600 Speaker 2: I'd learned how to tell the time, because you know, 288 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:48,080 Speaker 2: as you will remember, that was a little bit of 289 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 2: a rite of passage. Yeah, learning how to tell the time. 290 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:55,200 Speaker 2: I think I must have been about eight or nine 291 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 2: years old or something like that. The first thing I 292 00:13:57,800 --> 00:13:59,280 Speaker 2: did was take it into the garage and pull it 293 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:02,480 Speaker 2: to pieces and and sort of rehousard a newly designed 294 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 2: case which I made. There was a sheet of blue plexiglass, 295 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:07,320 Speaker 2: which I guess was maybe a quarter of an inch thick. 296 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:08,960 Speaker 2: So I cut out that, you know, sort of a 297 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 2: rectangular shape, cut a similarly shaped rectangle for the back 298 00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:15,680 Speaker 2: and one for the front, and sort of sandwished it 299 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:17,200 Speaker 2: together right, so it was sort of clear on the 300 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:19,280 Speaker 2: top and clear on the bottom, and the movement just 301 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 2: sort of sat in the middle. I'm not even sure 302 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:23,440 Speaker 2: if I got as far as attaching a watch band 303 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:23,680 Speaker 2: to it. 304 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:25,680 Speaker 1: I was going to ask you about the strap before. 305 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:27,880 Speaker 2: I sort of returned to those interest and. 306 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 1: Then it was transparent, so that it was it was yeah, yeah, yeah, 307 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:35,080 Speaker 1: you first thing you did showed how something could work. 308 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:36,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you know that you can see the movement. 309 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 2: You can see the movement from the back and the front. 310 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:41,600 Speaker 2: And I screwed the whole thing together with these little 311 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:47,360 Speaker 2: these brass screws that I found in the workshop. Yeah, 312 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:50,640 Speaker 2: everything was there, So that was it was an exercise 313 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:53,640 Speaker 2: in working with found objects, you know, with with with 314 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 2: you know, di y, you know, what was what was 315 00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 2: available at the time. And I can remember everybody in 316 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:04,440 Speaker 2: my family sort of, you know, simultaneously horrified and thrilled, 317 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:08,680 Speaker 2: you know, horrified that I pulled this thing to pieces, and. 318 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:11,160 Speaker 1: But thrilled that you did that's good that you were 319 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:12,600 Speaker 1: in a family that was thrilled. 320 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 2: Thrilled that I sort of managed to repurpose it. Maybe 321 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 2: that was the first thing that I ever designed. Actually, 322 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 2: what I. 323 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:20,960 Speaker 1: Can remember, did your family go out? I mean you 324 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:23,440 Speaker 1: paint the picture of a very kind of internal life 325 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:27,040 Speaker 1: of the workshop, the kitchen, the food, the family. But 326 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:28,960 Speaker 1: did you did you go to restaurants? 327 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:31,520 Speaker 2: In my younger years, I can't really ever remember going 328 00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:35,240 Speaker 2: to restaurants. We must have at some point, but I 329 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:37,400 Speaker 2: don't think. You know, at that time in Sydney, we're 330 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:42,320 Speaker 2: talking kind of late sixties seventies, restaurant culture wasn't wasn't 331 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 2: like it is now. I mean, you know Sydney Sydney today, 332 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 2: I mean that's all people do is talk about restaurants 333 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:51,520 Speaker 2: and real estate. I mean that's the sort of obsession. 334 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:53,800 Speaker 1: When did that happen to you that you started eating out? 335 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:54,600 Speaker 2: Well? 336 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:59,840 Speaker 3: So, so when we we we came back from from Cairns, 337 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 3: my mother and I and I went to primary school 338 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 3: for a few more years, and my mother got remarried when. 339 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:10,320 Speaker 2: I was about twelve years old or thirteen, and my 340 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:15,440 Speaker 2: stepfather got had immediately got transferred to go and live 341 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:18,240 Speaker 2: in South Korea. He was working for this big American 342 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:22,400 Speaker 2: pharmaceutical company. So then then that's a big deal. Crazy. 343 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:27,320 Speaker 2: I went to live in South age age like twelve, 344 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:29,240 Speaker 2: but I went there and I went for three years, 345 00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:32,320 Speaker 2: and that was when I can remember going to restaurants 346 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:33,080 Speaker 2: for the first time. 347 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 1: In South Korea. 348 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, because we first had to stay in a 349 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:39,400 Speaker 2: hotel until because there was no the house that we 350 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 2: were going to live in wasn't ready, so we stayed 351 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:42,960 Speaker 2: in a hotel, which you know was the kind of 352 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 2: the most luxurious hotel in Seoul at the time. Bearing 353 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:48,160 Speaker 2: in mind that South Korea in the seventies was a 354 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 2: military dictatorship, right, there was a curfew from eleven pm 355 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:53,520 Speaker 2: till sort of six am. You couldn't go out. I mean, 356 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:56,560 Speaker 2: it was a proper kind of military, huge American military 357 00:16:56,560 --> 00:17:02,160 Speaker 2: presence there. We lived really close to the American Army base. Actually. Nevertheless, 358 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 2: you know, we there were restaurants and there were places 359 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:07,320 Speaker 2: to go out, and that's when I started, you know, 360 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:09,720 Speaker 2: getting a taste for for for restaurants, but. 361 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:11,720 Speaker 1: South Korean food, it was Korean. 362 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:15,040 Speaker 2: Absolutely international, no, no, no, I mean it was what 363 00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:19,200 Speaker 2: did you eat things like bulgogie? Right, kim chi. Of course, 364 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:22,119 Speaker 2: everybody kimchi. I wasn't so fond of kimchi, although I 365 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:25,959 Speaker 2: love it now. Kim pop, you know, or basically like 366 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:28,800 Speaker 2: sort of rolls seaweed. You know, it's like really typical. 367 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:30,360 Speaker 2: And we had a Korean made. 368 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 1: Korean is really big deal. Now do you ever have 369 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:33,200 Speaker 1: it here? 370 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:35,879 Speaker 2: I don't, but I should because. 371 00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:38,000 Speaker 1: That's maybe you and I could go and find find someplace. 372 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:40,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean good Korean, I mean like kind of 373 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:41,800 Speaker 2: you know, it is Korean culture. 374 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:45,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, is crazy now that in New York it's all 375 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:48,960 Speaker 1: about Korea, about the Korean barbecue, about the way Korean food, 376 00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:49,840 Speaker 1: so you know. 377 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:52,720 Speaker 2: But but my exposure to sort of cuisine was mostly 378 00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:57,159 Speaker 2: being taken onto the American Army Base by my friends 379 00:17:57,160 --> 00:18:00,320 Speaker 2: from school, sneaking onto the onto the American Army Base, 380 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:02,520 Speaker 2: and sneaking into the p X where they had these 381 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:05,200 Speaker 2: shops called p x's where you could buy everything American. 382 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:05,480 Speaker 1: Yeah. 383 00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:07,800 Speaker 2: So the first time I ever came across doctor Pepper 384 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:11,040 Speaker 2: and read lichorician, you know, that was pretty exciting. 385 00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:13,240 Speaker 1: I have a friend who was in Germany as well, 386 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:15,720 Speaker 1: said the same thing. Then you go to the base 387 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:19,240 Speaker 1: and it was like being in a supermarket in Ephaca, 388 00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:19,760 Speaker 1: New York. 389 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:20,120 Speaker 2: Yeah. 390 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:24,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, so you lived in Korea and then went back to. 391 00:18:24,359 --> 00:18:27,120 Speaker 2: I got sent back to Australia to boarding school in Sydney, 392 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:30,359 Speaker 2: but I'd go and visit them practically every holiday, you know, 393 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:32,640 Speaker 2: so maybe two three times a year I'd go off 394 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:35,960 Speaker 2: to see them in in Tokyo. Then it was you know, 395 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:37,800 Speaker 2: then I really got sort of bitten. 396 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:38,720 Speaker 1: By the Travelers explosion. 397 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:41,399 Speaker 2: That was it, you know, Tokyo was kind of became 398 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:42,520 Speaker 2: my place. You know. 399 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:44,120 Speaker 1: That was what age I. 400 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:48,119 Speaker 2: Was probably sixteen or seventeen at that point and then 401 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:48,639 Speaker 2: and then that was. 402 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:50,600 Speaker 1: Also must have been design wise. 403 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:55,480 Speaker 2: Quite yeah, it was. I mean what struck me about 404 00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:58,280 Speaker 2: being in Japan, being anywhere actually outside of Australia was 405 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:00,640 Speaker 2: was just the way, you know, culture really the way 406 00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:03,639 Speaker 2: that different people solve problems, right, they solve problems in 407 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:06,080 Speaker 2: different ways. So for example, you know, you'd go into 408 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:09,080 Speaker 2: the subway in Tokyo and you sort of observe how 409 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:11,359 Speaker 2: things were built and what materials they'd use. You know, 410 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:13,680 Speaker 2: all of the railings were stainless steel. It's the first 411 00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:16,639 Speaker 2: time I'd ever seen that. And I can remember the 412 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:18,159 Speaker 2: same thing in Paris you know when I lived in 413 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:20,439 Speaker 2: I lived in Paris for quite a while, you know, 414 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:23,399 Speaker 2: when I was when I was older and getting on 415 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 2: a metro that was on rubber tires, yea. 416 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:28,240 Speaker 1: The silence of the yeah, which is. 417 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:30,280 Speaker 2: Just kind of a mad concept. But the way that 418 00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:33,119 Speaker 2: different cultures solve problems in different ways. That was the 419 00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:35,359 Speaker 2: thing that really struck me about being in Japan because 420 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:37,560 Speaker 2: it really was about as far away as you could. 421 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:41,000 Speaker 2: You know, culturally, it was extremely different. You know, everybody 422 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:45,760 Speaker 2: associates Japan with with detailed minimal yeah, minimalism resolving things, 423 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:49,840 Speaker 2: and you know, for me, the mentality that I had, 424 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:52,359 Speaker 2: I felt right at home there. You know, it felt 425 00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:54,040 Speaker 2: like the country I should have been born in. You know, 426 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:56,280 Speaker 2: the way that they sort of thought about things, Not 427 00:19:56,320 --> 00:19:59,560 Speaker 2: so much that they thought, you know, that everything was 428 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:02,919 Speaker 2: about d It was more that it felt to me 429 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:06,639 Speaker 2: like they were thinking on on a smaller scale. They 430 00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:09,000 Speaker 2: just they just considered things, you know, on a much 431 00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:10,639 Speaker 2: much smaller scale, and it was it felt, you know, 432 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:13,560 Speaker 2: that was kind of how I thought about things. 433 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:15,880 Speaker 1: Food wise. I always think that you know people who say, 434 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:18,920 Speaker 1: if you opened the restaurant somewhere else, you know, New 435 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:23,760 Speaker 1: York or San Francisco or Miami or Dubai, you know, 436 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:27,119 Speaker 1: and how would you actually control it? And funnily if 437 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:29,879 Speaker 1: I think Tokyo could do it, you know, because I 438 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 1: always had this idea that you could get Japanese cooks 439 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:35,879 Speaker 1: to come and hear chefs to work here for a 440 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:38,560 Speaker 1: certain period of time and they'd probably end up making 441 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:41,280 Speaker 1: fresh tagular really better than we did. I mean, I don't, 442 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:43,320 Speaker 1: I don't. You know, you don't want to generalize about 443 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:46,000 Speaker 1: a culture, but there seemed to be an attention to 444 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:49,240 Speaker 1: that detail. It just becomes a fancy. 445 00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:51,639 Speaker 2: But you know, I mean you really you can't eat badly. 446 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:52,960 Speaker 2: I mean you really struggle to eat. 447 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:54,760 Speaker 1: It's very much Japanese food. 448 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:57,560 Speaker 2: It feels to me like Italy, right, there are these 449 00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:01,280 Speaker 2: two cultures that you you know, food is so important 450 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:04,879 Speaker 2: and the quality of food. It's all about the quality, 451 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:08,639 Speaker 2: isn't it? The quality of the project and the execution. 452 00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:12,360 Speaker 2: But it's it's soon going back. 453 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:14,679 Speaker 1: You were sent back to boarding school, yeah, and then 454 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:16,560 Speaker 1: you went to college. Then I school. 455 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:19,600 Speaker 2: I went to art school actually in Sydney. In Sydney, yeah, yeah, yeah, 456 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:22,359 Speaker 2: I never studied design formally. I decided I wanted to 457 00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:26,600 Speaker 2: become a jeweler and a silver smith, mostly because that 458 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:29,000 Speaker 2: was the only part of the art school where you 459 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:30,719 Speaker 2: could actually learn how to do something. You know, if 460 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:32,760 Speaker 2: you're in the art department, you know, the painting department 461 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:34,720 Speaker 2: or the sculpture department, they sort of leave you to 462 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:36,280 Speaker 2: your own devices and you just kind of get on 463 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:38,800 Speaker 2: with it. But in the jey department, service missing department, 464 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:41,200 Speaker 2: they teach you how to actually do things with metal. 465 00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:43,119 Speaker 2: So I was learning how to how to make things. 466 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:46,359 Speaker 2: I never ended up practicing as a jeweler or a silversmith, 467 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:49,600 Speaker 2: but the skills that I learned doing those things really, 468 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:55,040 Speaker 2: you know, set me up so so brilliantly for starting 469 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 2: to design furniture. First things that I started designing. 470 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:02,200 Speaker 1: With in the book. Let's talk about the book. 471 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:05,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, so this book came out last year and it 472 00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:09,240 Speaker 2: was I guess it's forty years of forty years of work. 473 00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:11,520 Speaker 2: So nineteen eighty four is the year that I graduated 474 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:14,840 Speaker 2: from from art school, so it's it's from then until now. 475 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:15,320 Speaker 3: You know. 476 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:18,399 Speaker 2: It was very much like a functional encyclopedia. I just 477 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:22,720 Speaker 2: wanted to chronicle everything that i'd done. This is maybe 478 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:24,359 Speaker 2: one of the one do you want to talk about 479 00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:27,120 Speaker 2: the better known pieces, things like a watch that I made. 480 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:29,440 Speaker 2: I guess I was like eighteen or nineteen at the time. 481 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:30,920 Speaker 2: I mean these, as you can see, you know, these 482 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:33,840 Speaker 2: are sort of very very kind of postmodern and attempted 483 00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:37,320 Speaker 2: a sort of shares long which and this watch is. 484 00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:38,920 Speaker 1: When you were designing jewelry. 485 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:41,320 Speaker 2: Well yeah, yeah, I was working in the jewelry department 486 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:43,320 Speaker 2: trying to you know, make and this this was a 487 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:45,720 Speaker 2: you know, these chairs. You know, I always wanted to 488 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:47,960 Speaker 2: design chairs because chairs were the sort of the iconic 489 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:53,040 Speaker 2: thing designers and architects, you know, made the thing to do. Yeah. 490 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:55,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, did the chair They did that, that chair for 491 00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:58,760 Speaker 1: the Pomperty. Have you ever seen that? Yeah, absolutely, yeah, 492 00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:00,919 Speaker 1: they did that one. He said it is harder than 493 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:03,479 Speaker 1: designing the whole building, much more challenge. 494 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:06,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, Well some of them, we know, obviously most 495 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:10,640 Speaker 2: of the world's most famous chairs have been designed by architects, observe. Yeah, 496 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:12,920 Speaker 2: I mean these were very much inspired by what was 497 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:14,600 Speaker 2: going on at the town in the in the world 498 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:18,159 Speaker 2: of architecture. But that's a funny piece. So that's a 499 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:20,320 Speaker 2: bracelet with a wheel on it, which sounds like a 500 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:23,280 Speaker 2: kind of very strange idea. But but so I was 501 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:25,639 Speaker 2: studying jewelry and I just wanted to make furniture in 502 00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:27,600 Speaker 2: the jewelry department. So I was able to sort of 503 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:30,639 Speaker 2: twist it and like and you know, I said, basically, 504 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:33,640 Speaker 2: you know, furniture is jewelry. You know, they both they're 505 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:35,680 Speaker 2: both kind of useless without the body, right, they don't 506 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:38,080 Speaker 2: kind of function without without the body. And so they 507 00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:40,200 Speaker 2: kind of bought that idea and thought it was an 508 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:44,119 Speaker 2: interesting one. And so, you know, I create pieces of 509 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:46,560 Speaker 2: jewelry that, you know, like sort of performance pieces that 510 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:49,480 Speaker 2: you could wear, but they functioned a bit like a 511 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:50,280 Speaker 2: piece of furniture. 512 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:53,880 Speaker 1: Do you have this like you've asking where these pieces are. 513 00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:55,719 Speaker 2: It's a really great question because you know, a lot 514 00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:57,320 Speaker 2: of this stuff, I have no idea where it is. 515 00:23:57,359 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 2: I wasn't good at I know, I wasn't good at 516 00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:02,359 Speaker 2: at keeping mons. I'm still not. You know, I'm not 517 00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:04,280 Speaker 2: a I'm not a collector. 518 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:06,200 Speaker 1: I know, the archive, the idea. 519 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:07,919 Speaker 2: I'm a kind of a doer, you know. I do 520 00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:10,240 Speaker 2: it and then once it's done, it's it's gone and 521 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:13,080 Speaker 2: sort of lives its own life and it's out of 522 00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:13,440 Speaker 2: my head. 523 00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:17,200 Speaker 1: But you went from from the cocoon of the school. 524 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:19,680 Speaker 1: Did you did you have to go work for someone? Then? 525 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:21,879 Speaker 2: I had a series of sort of rudimentary jobs, you know, 526 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:23,919 Speaker 2: but they were were they were not fun jobs, you know, 527 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:27,240 Speaker 2: working in working in department stores, and working in news agencies. 528 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:29,520 Speaker 1: And I met a job in a design office. 529 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:31,840 Speaker 2: No, no, I never worked in a design office. I 530 00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:36,119 Speaker 2: never worked for anyone that was that was doing anything 531 00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:38,359 Speaker 2: like what I wanted, what I did, or what I 532 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:42,600 Speaker 2: wanted to do. The first break that I got, I suppose, 533 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:44,960 Speaker 2: was in I guess it was eighty five or eighty six. 534 00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:47,520 Speaker 2: A year or two after I finished my college, I 535 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:49,960 Speaker 2: applied for a grant from the government from the from 536 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:53,320 Speaker 2: in Australia, from an institution called the Craft Council, and 537 00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:55,720 Speaker 2: they were giving money to people and I was told, 538 00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:58,399 Speaker 2: I was advised by my tutors not to you know, 539 00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:00,520 Speaker 2: I was too young to apply, but I did, and 540 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:02,879 Speaker 2: I got a grant, and I think it was several 541 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:05,359 Speaker 2: thousand dollars, which was a lot of money in those days. 542 00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:07,960 Speaker 2: And I set about trying to pull together an exhibition, 543 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:10,960 Speaker 2: which I did so I found a gallery which was 544 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:13,520 Speaker 2: really the best gallery in Sydney at the time, and 545 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:16,720 Speaker 2: I had an exhibition in nineteen eighty six of five 546 00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 2: or six pieces of furniture that I put together. The 547 00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:21,960 Speaker 2: first piece was a lucky lunge. I was like, you know, 548 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:25,159 Speaker 2: nineteen or something at the time. Yeah, that was the 549 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:27,919 Speaker 2: only piece in the show that got bought, so it 550 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:30,119 Speaker 2: was but it was bought by a museum, So that 551 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:31,480 Speaker 2: was a good start. 552 00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:35,840 Speaker 1: Do you think somebody could do this now, to have 553 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 1: a gallery, to have your own you. 554 00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:40,800 Speaker 2: Know, I'd love to think so. I'd love to think 555 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:43,879 Speaker 2: that it was possible. But the difference for me and 556 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:47,320 Speaker 2: maybe for my generation was that, you know, we had 557 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:49,879 Speaker 2: to make things. But the only way I could communicate 558 00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:56,040 Speaker 2: with prospective you know, manufacturers, was to show them something. 559 00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:58,280 Speaker 2: There was no good showing people drawings, you know, they 560 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:00,119 Speaker 2: wouldn't kind of buy it. You had to show than 561 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:02,120 Speaker 2: the real thing. And to show them the real thing, 562 00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:03,800 Speaker 2: you had to be able to make it, to make 563 00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:06,480 Speaker 2: the thing. So you know, that was my obsession was 564 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:08,760 Speaker 2: was making things, well, small series of things, you know, 565 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:11,200 Speaker 2: making and then maybe along the way you could sell 566 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:13,000 Speaker 2: a few, you know, to make a bit of money. 567 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:16,919 Speaker 1: But then you also designed spaces, So did we designed 568 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:18,720 Speaker 1: you did do restaurants, didn't you. 569 00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:21,440 Speaker 2: Go to the Yeah, I did a bunch of restaurants. 570 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:21,640 Speaker 1: Well. 571 00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,480 Speaker 2: I designed this restaurant called Coast, which was on album 572 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:27,760 Speaker 2: Male Street in London in the mid nineties, which is 573 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:31,840 Speaker 2: quite a yeah. Yeah, well, I tell you the most 574 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:34,359 Speaker 2: fantastic thing about designing a restaurant, you know, what was 575 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:37,480 Speaker 2: what was Taylor made about that? That project? For me 576 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:38,560 Speaker 2: was that you could do everything. 577 00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:39,639 Speaker 1: You know, what do you mean? 578 00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,360 Speaker 2: You could do the cutlery, you could do the vasas, 579 00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:45,000 Speaker 2: you could do the furniture, you know, the tables, you 580 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:46,879 Speaker 2: could do everything. You know. I love the idea of 581 00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:48,600 Speaker 2: doing everything, and I've kind of gone on to do 582 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:51,359 Speaker 2: kind of that, right, design all of these little bits. 583 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:53,879 Speaker 2: Of course, you could design the space, but for me, 584 00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:56,040 Speaker 2: it was really much more about designing all of the 585 00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:58,040 Speaker 2: things that went in the space. You know, I learned 586 00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:01,840 Speaker 2: a lot of designing Coast. I a few years later 587 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:05,560 Speaker 2: designed another restaurant in New York called lever House, which. 588 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:10,199 Speaker 1: Oh yeah when Abbi rosenbo Yeah, exactly, a great building 589 00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:11,679 Speaker 1: right opposite the Secret Building. 590 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:14,199 Speaker 2: So you walked in off the street and then you 591 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:18,040 Speaker 2: went down, you went down you know, maybe four or 592 00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:20,200 Speaker 2: five flights of stairs, and then it was a huge 593 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:24,200 Speaker 2: ceilings were maybe twenty twenty foot tall. It was an amazing, 594 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:27,840 Speaker 2: amazing space. You know that that was a much more 595 00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:31,240 Speaker 2: sophisticated project with a much you know, with a bigger budget. 596 00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:34,159 Speaker 2: And you know, again, I got to design all the furniture. 597 00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:36,560 Speaker 2: I got to design the carpets, I got to design 598 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:39,760 Speaker 2: you know, like literally everything, the light fittings, which was 599 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:45,720 Speaker 2: what year, boy, boy, I don't know, maybe ninety late nineties, 600 00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:47,440 Speaker 2: I want to say, the walls. You know, we brought 601 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:50,399 Speaker 2: Japanese plaster is in to do the walls, which is 602 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:54,080 Speaker 2: a sort of very rough plaster that's got sort of 603 00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:55,960 Speaker 2: grass and stuff. 604 00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:58,960 Speaker 1: When you go to restaurants, now, does it make a 605 00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:00,760 Speaker 1: big difference to I? 606 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:04,439 Speaker 2: You know, I felt designing restaurants in that manner was 607 00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:08,000 Speaker 2: very much a thing of the time. You know, I'm 608 00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:11,639 Speaker 2: far less interested now when I go to restaurants in 609 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:14,560 Speaker 2: the design than the food. You know, I think ultimately 610 00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:27,400 Speaker 2: the food is the most important thing. 611 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:31,320 Speaker 1: And what about starting love From then I. 612 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:35,960 Speaker 2: Met Johnny for the first time probably let me think 613 00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:39,280 Speaker 2: mid to late nineties. He had not long been working 614 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:43,160 Speaker 2: at Apple, but we didn't start working together for probably 615 00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:46,240 Speaker 2: another fifteen years after that. Yeah, you know, we talked 616 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:49,640 Speaker 2: incessantly about you know, design and how we'd rather do it, 617 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:52,600 Speaker 2: what was a good idea and what wasn't a good idea. 618 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:54,880 Speaker 2: But we didn't start working together for a really long 619 00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:58,440 Speaker 2: time after that until a meaningful opportunity sort of presented itself, 620 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:02,080 Speaker 2: and then Johnny brought me on boarded Apple to start 621 00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:04,520 Speaker 2: working with him on the watch, the watch, which was 622 00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:09,320 Speaker 2: just a sort of a notion. I'm not I, yeah, 623 00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:09,840 Speaker 2: I should be. 624 00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:11,320 Speaker 1: What was the Apple Watch? 625 00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:18,480 Speaker 2: Two thy and thirteen after Steve? Yeah, yeah, yeah, not 626 00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:18,960 Speaker 2: long but. 627 00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:21,520 Speaker 1: He never did he ever think of the watch? Did 628 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:21,880 Speaker 1: he ever? 629 00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:25,720 Speaker 2: No? I believe that was entirely Johnny's conception. 630 00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:27,440 Speaker 1: Did you live in San Francisco? 631 00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:31,560 Speaker 2: Never? No, I always lived between London and Paris, mostly 632 00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:34,080 Speaker 2: since the sort of early nineties. You know what then then, 633 00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:36,920 Speaker 2: you know, food culture really you know, kind of started 634 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:39,600 Speaker 2: to mean something to me. But it was mostly through 635 00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:43,880 Speaker 2: the ritual, you know, the idea that you would every 636 00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:46,480 Speaker 2: day go out and have lunch, you know, even you know, 637 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:49,080 Speaker 2: often by myself and I you know, to this day, 638 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:52,800 Speaker 2: it's something I love doing it. It stays and stays 639 00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:55,040 Speaker 2: with me, just you know, the importance of that taking 640 00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:58,640 Speaker 2: that moment, taking that time to even when you're working right, 641 00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:02,560 Speaker 2: it doesn't have to be sort of associated with not working. Well. 642 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:09,560 Speaker 1: Renzo Piano, who's you know, Italy, he really did not 643 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:13,360 Speaker 1: understand the two words business lunch or working lunch. He 644 00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:15,320 Speaker 1: just didn't get it. He said, you know, when you work, 645 00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:17,800 Speaker 1: you work, and when you eat, you eat. And the 646 00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:20,280 Speaker 1: idea of having a working lunch or a business lunch 647 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:22,840 Speaker 1: it probably has changed now, but was. And you know 648 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:26,120 Speaker 1: Italians go home for lunch. And actually, Renzo and Richard 649 00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:29,400 Speaker 1: that's when I started cooking in Paris, because they would 650 00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:32,240 Speaker 1: work all morning on the Pompertu and then come home 651 00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:34,400 Speaker 1: for lunch. Wow, And so I would kind of I 652 00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:36,760 Speaker 1: was kind of in Paris. I was twenty three, and 653 00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:39,120 Speaker 1: I thought, okay, well, you know this will be interesting 654 00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:41,360 Speaker 1: for me. I'll work, you know, And so that's when 655 00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:44,240 Speaker 1: we put the idea of lunch being really important in 656 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:44,880 Speaker 1: that culture. 657 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:48,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, lunch and lunch and holidays during the summer, 658 00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:50,920 Speaker 2: my Tuesday takeaways. Yeah, from Paris. 659 00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:53,560 Speaker 1: But what about domestic life, cooks at home? Did you 660 00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:54,800 Speaker 1: cook or did Charlotte cook? 661 00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:58,000 Speaker 2: Charlotte, Charlotte and I both cook. She cooks more than 662 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:01,200 Speaker 2: I do. I love cooking, you know, but I just 663 00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:02,920 Speaker 2: find that I don't have the kind of headspace to 664 00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:05,760 Speaker 2: do it very much, sadly. But I do love love it, 665 00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:08,000 Speaker 2: and I love the idea of it. I'm great at 666 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:13,640 Speaker 2: following a recipe, but I do. I do love Yeah, barbecuing. 667 00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:17,040 Speaker 1: Oh see, that's very male. 668 00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:17,680 Speaker 2: You know, despite all of the cliches. 669 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:20,000 Speaker 1: I know, I know now, but I think women like 670 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:23,080 Speaker 1: barbecuing too. But it is interesting how men who want 671 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:25,160 Speaker 1: to cook well do the barbecue. 672 00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:26,800 Speaker 2: Not only male, but also very you know, kind of 673 00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:32,240 Speaker 2: stereotypically Australia. But it wasn't until I was in Tuscany 674 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:34,960 Speaker 2: about ten years ago in a restaurant there, and they 675 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:39,920 Speaker 2: have the most fantastic kind of setup for cooking steaks. 676 00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:42,560 Speaker 2: A huge fire on the right hand side, like with 677 00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:45,040 Speaker 2: fueled with olive wood. It has to be olive wood, 678 00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:50,240 Speaker 2: and then there are holes underneath the fire and the 679 00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:53,920 Speaker 2: coals fall out onto a surface, and then you sweep 680 00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:57,720 Speaker 2: the cold over and you sweep it onto another grill 681 00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:00,480 Speaker 2: and the little ones fall through and the coals stay 682 00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:03,560 Speaker 2: hot because air is coming through. Anyway. I found the 683 00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:06,320 Speaker 2: blacksmith that made this. The next day went there and 684 00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:09,240 Speaker 2: had had them build one for me because this system 685 00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:11,720 Speaker 2: is probable and sort of genius. 686 00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:14,240 Speaker 1: Well, I love. We have one in tuscany where we are, 687 00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:16,960 Speaker 1: and it's what I call vertical coil. So you put 688 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:20,720 Speaker 1: all the coals in the wood vertically. 689 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:22,400 Speaker 2: Oh wow, okay, vertically, and then as. 690 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:24,880 Speaker 1: They get hot, they fall down, and then you put 691 00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:27,880 Speaker 1: more of that and then you just keep sweeping it. 692 00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:28,680 Speaker 1: It's really cool. 693 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:33,360 Speaker 2: Similar you have to keep sweeping across, you keep the going. 694 00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:33,880 Speaker 1: And you just keep sweeping across. 695 00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:35,840 Speaker 2: But what I've discovered is that it has to be 696 00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:37,520 Speaker 2: olive wood. I mean, olive is one of the only 697 00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:40,000 Speaker 2: things that really and in Greece, of course we have 698 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:44,600 Speaker 2: an abundance of olive wood soil. 699 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:44,520 Speaker 1: And I've had your olive oil. 700 00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:47,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, because we're just about to do another crop, of 701 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:48,680 Speaker 2: course in November. 702 00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:50,000 Speaker 1: But how is it going to be? Do you think 703 00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:51,760 Speaker 1: we're worried about olive oil this year? 704 00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:56,080 Speaker 2: Last year was a disaster. This year is looking pretty good. 705 00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:59,000 Speaker 2: I think we should get about a ton I guess 706 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:02,320 Speaker 2: the metric ton which but we have like six hundred trees, right. 707 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:04,680 Speaker 1: And you have you press it yourself or do you 708 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:05,120 Speaker 1: take it. 709 00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:07,040 Speaker 2: To the community press that we go to. There's one 710 00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:09,840 Speaker 2: particular one where we know the people and where you've 711 00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:11,640 Speaker 2: got to make sure you're the first one there. So 712 00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:13,560 Speaker 2: you get the cold press, because you know, it's the 713 00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:16,560 Speaker 2: heat that generated the olive press that creates that. It 714 00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:18,520 Speaker 2: sort of cooks the oil. So if you're the first one, 715 00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:21,200 Speaker 2: you're okay, you've got to be the first one. But 716 00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:23,720 Speaker 2: that's fun. You know, it's something that everybody does, you know, 717 00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:28,600 Speaker 2: like the entire island and picks us. We pick it. 718 00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:31,360 Speaker 2: A bunch of other people that come and help, you know, 719 00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:35,280 Speaker 2: just you hide hands and you know for a few weeks. 720 00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:38,040 Speaker 1: And fantascany they pay them in the olive oil that 721 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:42,120 Speaker 1: was a traditional the olive oil you know, traveled no 722 00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:45,560 Speaker 1: more than sort of ten kilometers from the tree. The 723 00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:47,920 Speaker 1: idea that now we send it to China, we send 724 00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:50,600 Speaker 1: it to America. You can buy Tuscan olive oil everywhere. 725 00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:53,680 Speaker 1: That's such a great ingredient. Which makes me think that 726 00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:56,280 Speaker 1: we haven't actually read the recipe. What do you like 727 00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:58,080 Speaker 1: about this recipe? What made you choose it? 728 00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:00,520 Speaker 2: It's a good segue from the barbecue. It's something that 729 00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:03,720 Speaker 2: it's something that I can do. I can do quite well, 730 00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:05,680 Speaker 2: I think. But what I love about it is that 731 00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:07,400 Speaker 2: it's just simple. And there's a little bit at the 732 00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:10,600 Speaker 2: end which is quite technical, which I kind of like. Okay, 733 00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:15,200 Speaker 2: so this is the recipe for beef for steak taliata. 734 00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:18,400 Speaker 2: About thirty minutes before cooking, remove the steaks from the 735 00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:23,200 Speaker 2: refrigerator uncovered, let them come to room temperature, get the 736 00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:27,080 Speaker 2: grill into a high heat or the barbecue. Get that 737 00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:29,960 Speaker 2: kind of fired up and ready to go. Generously season 738 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,560 Speaker 2: the steaks on both sides with salt and black pepper, 739 00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:36,560 Speaker 2: and then grill the steaks on one side for three 740 00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:40,280 Speaker 2: minutes vigorously, i'd say, then turn them over with tongs 741 00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:43,760 Speaker 2: not fingers, for another two minutes on the other side. 742 00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:46,279 Speaker 2: Remove them from the heat and transfer them to a 743 00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:49,279 Speaker 2: warm plate and let them rest for five minutes. And 744 00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:52,160 Speaker 2: I guess, you know, one can't sort of overstate the 745 00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:56,480 Speaker 2: importance of letting them meat rest. Something that seems slightly 746 00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:57,279 Speaker 2: strange to. 747 00:34:57,200 --> 00:34:59,600 Speaker 1: Do just makes a huge difference. Yeah, and you get 748 00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:01,920 Speaker 1: the juice. Sometimes I put a bit of you know, 749 00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:04,680 Speaker 1: lemon and olive oil over it while the juices come out. 750 00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:06,120 Speaker 1: You know, it's really yeah. 751 00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:07,720 Speaker 2: And it's extraordinary how much it keeps cooking. 752 00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:08,160 Speaker 1: You know. 753 00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:11,759 Speaker 2: It's just something that it's really impossible, difficult to kind 754 00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:14,520 Speaker 2: of to imagine. But the most important part in the 755 00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:16,360 Speaker 2: bit that I love at the end, because it involves 756 00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:22,239 Speaker 2: sharp knives, is is slicing the steak diagonally, not sort 757 00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:24,719 Speaker 2: of straight up and down, but cutting it a dre 758 00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:26,480 Speaker 2: in a thirty five and a forty five degree an, 759 00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:29,640 Speaker 2: so you sort of expose more of the surface area 760 00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:30,760 Speaker 2: of the steak inside. 761 00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:33,680 Speaker 1: Still do you make it quite often? This is something 762 00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:33,960 Speaker 1: that you. 763 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:36,880 Speaker 2: Like to have, not as often as i'd like, actually, 764 00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:40,640 Speaker 2: because I love to do it on that on said barbecue, 765 00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:43,000 Speaker 2: and that barbecue happens not to be in the UK. 766 00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:46,239 Speaker 2: So if i'd in Greece, I do it. I do 767 00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:48,960 Speaker 2: it often. And what do you what do you fry 768 00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:50,160 Speaker 2: it in? Do you use beef? 769 00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:53,600 Speaker 1: We don't fry it now. We put it on the krill, okay, right, 770 00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:55,399 Speaker 1: But like you, we have a grill here, and when 771 00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:57,279 Speaker 1: I do it at home on a grill pan, I 772 00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:00,080 Speaker 1: have that cast iron grill pan which I like to 773 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:02,160 Speaker 1: cook with. And the other day I was making steaks 774 00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:05,880 Speaker 1: and the fire alarm went off and I couldn't. I 775 00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:08,239 Speaker 1: didn't know how to turn the smoke alarm off, and 776 00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:12,239 Speaker 1: they came these firemen. There was one that was so gorgeous. 777 00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:14,320 Speaker 1: Let's do this again. 778 00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:17,600 Speaker 2: It's so funny that happened to all the girls that. 779 00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:20,120 Speaker 1: Were going, Oh, why don't we invite him to dinner. 780 00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:25,440 Speaker 1: My father used to say we lived in the country 781 00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:28,319 Speaker 1: and we had a volunteer fire department, and used to say, 782 00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:32,640 Speaker 1: never ever, ever called the fire department, because they will 783 00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:35,640 Speaker 1: be so excited about being called out, because they're so 784 00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:39,160 Speaker 1: bored that they come with hoses. And he had paintings 785 00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:42,600 Speaker 1: and arts. He said, I'd rather things burn that have 786 00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:45,080 Speaker 1: water damage. So we were always told in case of fire, 787 00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:48,200 Speaker 1: do not call the fire department. So as we ended 788 00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:50,759 Speaker 1: with the recipe, we have always a question. We ask 789 00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:54,400 Speaker 1: at the end, if you were looking for comfort, is 790 00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:56,279 Speaker 1: there a food that you would reach for when you 791 00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:58,040 Speaker 1: needed comfort. 792 00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:04,000 Speaker 2: Food? It's it's a cup of tea. A cup of tea, Yeah, 793 00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:08,359 Speaker 2: tea my sort of comfort. Go to what tea? Well, 794 00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:10,839 Speaker 2: I'm sort of slightly obsessed with tea. So it could 795 00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:14,040 Speaker 2: be assam, could be a type of assam, could be 796 00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:17,960 Speaker 2: dud dealing, could be orange pico could be lapsang, soushong, 797 00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:19,680 Speaker 2: or a mix of all of those. 798 00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:22,239 Speaker 1: And what is your method, you know, all of. 799 00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:24,760 Speaker 2: The usual things. You know, the water has to boil, 800 00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:27,680 Speaker 2: you know, properly boil, like you know, hitting the pot. 801 00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:29,040 Speaker 2: You know, in an ideal. 802 00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:31,000 Speaker 1: World, always make a part of tea, not a cup 803 00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:31,399 Speaker 1: of tea. 804 00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:35,360 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, no, no, no pot, yeah yeah, the right amount 805 00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:38,000 Speaker 2: of tea. Let it sit for the right amount of time. 806 00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:41,160 Speaker 2: But I like experimenting with mixing different teas. But that's 807 00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:44,400 Speaker 2: my that's my kind of comfort my comfort food, you know, 808 00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:46,840 Speaker 2: and it's something that I look forward to at certain 809 00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:49,920 Speaker 2: times of the day and in certain places. And you know, 810 00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:53,520 Speaker 2: for me, it represents so many things. It's it's it's 811 00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:55,920 Speaker 2: an obsession with my grandmother that I think I inherited 812 00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:58,759 Speaker 2: from my grandmother. She was obsessed with tea. Your mother's mother, 813 00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:01,480 Speaker 2: my mother's mother. She was the one that was never 814 00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:02,280 Speaker 2: allowed in the kitchen. 815 00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:03,799 Speaker 1: Yeah, so she made so. 816 00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:07,320 Speaker 2: So you know, she was really good tea. 817 00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:13,719 Speaker 1: Thank you Mark, thanks to have lunch. Ruthie's Table four 818 00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:17,680 Speaker 1: is proud to support Leukemia UK. Their Cartwheel for a 819 00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:22,000 Speaker 1: Cure campaign raises funds for vital research and more effective 820 00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:26,640 Speaker 1: and kinder treatments for a cue My Lloyd leukemia. Please donate, 821 00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:30,280 Speaker 1: and to do so search cartwheel for a cure. 822 00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:39,480 Speaker 2: Ruthie's Table four was produced by Alex Belle and Zad 823 00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:43,839 Speaker 2: Rogers with Susannahlop, Andrew Sang and Bella Selini. This has 824 00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:47,959 Speaker 2: been an atomized production for iHeartMedia.