1 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:06,440 Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff Mom never told you. From how Stuff 2 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:15,200 Speaker 1: Works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm 3 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:18,840 Speaker 1: Kristen and I'm Caroline. And today you're getting initiated into 4 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:24,200 Speaker 1: the mile High Club of awful. Yeah. Yeah, the mile 5 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 1: high Club of sexism and sexual harassment and beauty norms 6 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 1: and expectations. Uh, we're talking about flight attendants. Come fly 7 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:36,160 Speaker 1: the sexist skies. Yeah. And I have to say I 8 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:41,480 Speaker 1: I did a little interview with my mother UM about 9 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:44,639 Speaker 1: this topic. She's been a Delta flight attendant for forty 10 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:51,839 Speaker 1: eight years. She basically hates people. Now, I'm sorry to 11 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:56,160 Speaker 1: say she's a great person. She's really fun and silly, 12 00:00:56,440 --> 00:01:02,320 Speaker 1: but her her love of manity has definitely faded because 13 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:08,880 Speaker 1: of nearly fifty years of putting up with passengers and pilots. 14 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 1: Why does she still do it? Well? Ay, I think 15 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:14,360 Speaker 1: she doesn't want to give up working. I think she's 16 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 1: loves to work. She loves to have a purpose and 17 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:19,480 Speaker 1: go to a job. Um. But I also think she 18 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 1: has so much fun with her friends. My mother UM 19 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 1: flies to Germany every month. So if you've ever flown 20 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:30,680 Speaker 1: to stat or Munich, she's probably been one of your 21 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 1: flight attendants. Look for the little tag that says Sally 22 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:37,520 Speaker 1: that's her. There was actually, Um, I think I mentioned 23 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:39,959 Speaker 1: this on social media and I may have mentioned it 24 00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:42,560 Speaker 1: on the podcast before, but there was a sminty listener 25 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 1: and her husband, I think, coming back from their honeymoon 26 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 1: in Europe and they heard my mother talking to another 27 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 1: passenger about what you and I do and they were like, wait, 28 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 1: you're Sally. Sally's famous, Sally's famous. Um yeah, I think she. 29 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 1: I think she loves what she does. I think she 30 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:06,520 Speaker 1: loves to be able to fly into Germany. Uh, go 31 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:08,919 Speaker 1: downstairs and get her dinner and her glass of wine, 32 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 1: hang out at the bar. Like the whole hotel staff 33 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:15,799 Speaker 1: knows all of these Delta women. Um, she's even this 34 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:21,679 Speaker 1: trip that she's leaving for today, the day that we're recording. Um, yes, 35 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 1: it's a regular trip. But they're also going to be 36 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:26,359 Speaker 1: celebrating the Delta flight attendants are going to be celebrating 37 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:31,520 Speaker 1: this guy Tommy who lives in Munich or stood guards sorry, 38 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:35,239 Speaker 1: he lives in Germany and he is the guy who 39 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 1: was in charge of catering the the airplanes, the Delta 40 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:43,400 Speaker 1: airplanes in Germany and he's retiring or or they're replacing 41 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 1: him or something after how long, Oh, I don't know, years, years, years, years, 42 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 1: But all of these Delta flight attendants are getting together 43 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 1: and going to his party, and I just love that. 44 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:56,919 Speaker 1: It's like it's it's family. And that's kind of how 45 00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:58,919 Speaker 1: my mother described it when I was asking her about 46 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 1: why Delta still has not accepted a union for flight attendants. 47 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 1: The Delta pilots are part of Delta, which is the 48 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:11,519 Speaker 1: Delta Airline Pilots Association, and the flight attendants have never unionized, 49 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 1: despite the fact that Delta has gobbled up multiple airlines 50 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 1: um with flight attendants who were previously in unions. And 51 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:22,639 Speaker 1: the way that my mother put it was basically, Delta 52 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 1: is a family, and we get whatever the pilots get 53 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:28,920 Speaker 1: from their union, and you know, essentially finger wag like 54 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 1: we don't want these people coming in here kids today 55 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:35,360 Speaker 1: telling us how to run our airline. And they're definitely 56 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 1: in the minority, as we'll find out in terms of 57 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:42,320 Speaker 1: labor representation in the airline industry. So the motivation though, 58 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 1: for talking to your mom about her experience as a 59 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 1: Delta flight attendant for almost fifty years, was wanting to 60 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 1: get a first hand take on a lot of the 61 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 1: tropes that we hear about in terms of the early 62 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 1: days of flight Stewart is is as they were known 63 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:05,880 Speaker 1: back then. We're really they're more as eye candy than 64 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 1: as flight attendants. Right, well, that's the assumption. I mean, 65 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:11,240 Speaker 1: as we're going to go through with some of this 66 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:15,240 Speaker 1: labor and activism history with flight attendants, they have been 67 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:17,479 Speaker 1: fighting tooth and nail pretty much since the get go 68 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 1: to be taken seriously, and there has been a lot 69 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:24,040 Speaker 1: of damage done over the past decades, over the past 70 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:26,680 Speaker 1: forever in terms of how long flight attendants have been around. 71 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:32,159 Speaker 1: In terms of marketing, airlines have purposely marketed their flight 72 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 1: attendants a sex objects in order to say, like, look 73 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:37,039 Speaker 1: at this great service. You're gonna get wink wink on 74 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 1: your flight. And I was asking my mother about sexual harassment, 75 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:45,160 Speaker 1: and I thought that her response is so enlightening, um 76 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:47,960 Speaker 1: because when I said, you know, did you ever deal 77 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 1: with sexual harassment, She's like, oh no. But I was like, okay, 78 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:54,279 Speaker 1: well that can't be true. But um, well, you know, 79 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:56,480 Speaker 1: did anyone ever act in a way that you know 80 00:04:57,279 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 1: was too sexual or made you uncomfortable? Did anyone ever 81 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:02,360 Speaker 1: grab your butt? Did you know, did they say anything 82 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:05,320 Speaker 1: to you? And she said, well, I mean, there's not 83 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:07,720 Speaker 1: a lot that I would want to tell you dot 84 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:11,719 Speaker 1: dot dot. But um, She's like, it just wasn't sexual 85 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:14,839 Speaker 1: harassment back then. My mother started flying when she was 86 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:17,039 Speaker 1: twenty years old. She left college because she wanted to 87 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:19,840 Speaker 1: go have a more glamorous life in Atlanta as an 88 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 1: Atlanta based Delta flat attendant. Y'all um, And yeah, she's right, 89 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:29,160 Speaker 1: back then, it wasn't sexual harassment. We hadn't had Anita 90 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 1: Hill yet, there were there were no laws protecting women 91 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 1: who were working these aisles on these flights. Did the 92 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:41,039 Speaker 1: term even exist when she was flying? Exactly No? And um, 93 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 1: I said, well, you know, did you have to deal 94 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:45,080 Speaker 1: with gross passengers because that's what we hear most about 95 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 1: being on the outside of the airline. And she said, 96 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:51,840 Speaker 1: you know, no, And if they ever said anything, um, 97 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:54,240 Speaker 1: you know, I'd make sure they never said anything again. 98 00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:56,559 Speaker 1: And my mother is a bit of an outlier, because 99 00:05:56,560 --> 00:05:58,599 Speaker 1: what you have to understand about Sally is that she 100 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 1: is a tough effing cook, and she is skilled at 101 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 1: being able to say something with a smile and reduce 102 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:11,359 Speaker 1: you to rubble. And she said that where it really 103 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:14,160 Speaker 1: came in and was most annoying was from the pilots, 104 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:18,039 Speaker 1: because the pilots also treated the flight attendants like the 105 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 1: sex sex objects that they're marketed as, and that wasn't 106 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 1: even necessarily always physical. It was more jokes comments, And um, 107 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:32,679 Speaker 1: I said, well, you know, were they funny? Did you laugh? 108 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:35,359 Speaker 1: Or were they bothers them? Did? Were they offensive? And 109 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 1: she said, you know, they were always terrible and gross. 110 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:41,480 Speaker 1: And she said, you know I would just tell them, um, 111 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:45,120 Speaker 1: you know, I don't really like jokes with with a 112 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 1: meaningful stare. That's a terrific response, especially in the era 113 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:52,360 Speaker 1: before you could say, oh, actually that is sexual harassment, 114 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 1: not a joke. I love that, right, And um she 115 00:06:56,480 --> 00:07:00,280 Speaker 1: said yeah. They immediately learned. And when every you would 116 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 1: bard a flight, because you would fly with the same pilots, 117 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 1: the same crew, over and over and over again, when 118 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 1: you got on the same consistent schedule, and she said that, 119 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 1: you know, the flight attendants would be getting on board, 120 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 1: the pilots would say, oh they're Sally, you know, I 121 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:15,880 Speaker 1: don't even bother she didn't think this is funny, And 122 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 1: eventually just less and less and less and less in general, 123 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 1: well and The whole twist to this whole flight attendant 124 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 1: or stewardess back then as sex object scenario is that 125 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:38,360 Speaker 1: originally stewardesses were steward's right. Yeah, the first ever flight 126 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:42,800 Speaker 1: attendants women's shocking. It goes against all of the all 127 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 1: of our stereotypes. I know. I love the photo of 128 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:48,960 Speaker 1: the world's first flight attendant, literally, the world's first flight 129 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:53,240 Speaker 1: attendant that Dan Grossman over at airships dot Net love it. 130 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 1: Dug up a guy named Heinrich Pubis who worked in 131 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 1: a not a blimp, what is it called zeppelin? Thank 132 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:04,840 Speaker 1: you Zeppelin? He worked and he worked in a led 133 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 1: Zeppelin um and he's standing there looking like a proper 134 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 1: butler um surrounded by all of these tables with people 135 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:16,720 Speaker 1: just loving their time in Zeppelin's. Yeah, just picture the 136 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 1: scene from Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade No ticket, 137 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:23,080 Speaker 1: although I doubt Heinrich threw anyone out of the Zeppelin. No, 138 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 1: he was too busy making sure that dinner was served correctly. 139 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 1: But speaking of Indiana Jones, all Heinrich survived the Hindenburg explosion. 140 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:37,960 Speaker 1: Yeah he did. Yeah, So he had started working for 141 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:41,720 Speaker 1: this German blomp company in nineteen twelve. People are like, 142 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:44,679 Speaker 1: it's not a blimp to Zeppelin. I know, I know. Um, 143 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:46,839 Speaker 1: but he actually headed up a team of ten to 144 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:50,439 Speaker 1: fifteen cooks and stewards, and yeah they were They were 145 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:55,200 Speaker 1: all men, because that's how it was on steamliners and 146 00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:58,200 Speaker 1: that's how it was on rail There were men in 147 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:03,880 Speaker 1: those you know, lovely white jackets like the pullman porters. Yeah, same, 148 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 1: same idea, because well, this has been a transportation and 149 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 1: the way we've done things forever. Why would we have 150 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:10,560 Speaker 1: it be any different? You know, why would we have 151 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:13,080 Speaker 1: women coming on board to serve people? That doesn't make 152 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 1: any sense. And in the nineteen twenties once people were like, um, 153 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:23,800 Speaker 1: maybe these giant balloons are a little too flammable. Passenger 154 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:29,440 Speaker 1: air travel gets under way, and the first flight attendants 155 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 1: in the US were really couriers, and they were like 156 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:37,559 Speaker 1: Donald Trump juniors. They were the sons of the guys 157 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:42,080 Speaker 1: who financed the airlines. So just imagine Donald Trump Junior 158 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 1: carrying his elephant tail and like handing you a cocktail. 159 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:48,680 Speaker 1: That was sort of the idea. I wouldn't take my 160 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:50,960 Speaker 1: cocktail and be like thank you, the road in your face, 161 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:56,319 Speaker 1: Yeah exactly, gin it burns the eyes. Um. Also at 162 00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 1: this time in the in the nine twenties and the 163 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:02,680 Speaker 1: United Kingdom, in real airways hired what they called cabin boys. 164 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 1: Oh like cabin boys today. Okay, I don't know why. 165 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:09,920 Speaker 1: That just sounds so it sounds so fun. Yeah, it 166 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:13,520 Speaker 1: sounds like a pool boy, you know, but a cabin 167 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 1: and maybe wearing like a smart nautical themed suit. I 168 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:21,840 Speaker 1: was thinking, you know, cabin boy, a little woodsy lumberjack situation, 169 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:25,000 Speaker 1: shorts and flannel. So why are you carrying an axe 170 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:27,320 Speaker 1: on the plane? Um? Well, then of course we have 171 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:31,719 Speaker 1: the stock market crash and no more couriers. Instead, you've 172 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:34,200 Speaker 1: got the co pilot, poor guy who has to not 173 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:37,120 Speaker 1: only be there in the supporting role to the pilot, 174 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 1: but he also has to serve the drinks and the 175 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:41,240 Speaker 1: food to the passengers. And it's hard out there for 176 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:45,720 Speaker 1: a co pilot. Well, let me tell you. Um. And 177 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 1: then in the nineteen thirties, though Western Air was the 178 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:53,079 Speaker 1: first to hire stewards to help passengers board, help them 179 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:57,440 Speaker 1: with luggage. They served meals, and they not only made 180 00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:00,960 Speaker 1: sure that your cigarettes and cigars were out, but they 181 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:04,480 Speaker 1: made sure that you would not open the window to 182 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 1: throw them out. Because you have to keep mine this 183 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:10,040 Speaker 1: early early air travel, you weren't in those jets that 184 00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 1: you would take to fly from New York to San 185 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:16,200 Speaker 1: Francisco today, this is kind of a rough ride in 186 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:19,679 Speaker 1: an airplane flies really low and really slow, and I 187 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 1: don't think they even in crested thirty feet. Yeah, the 188 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:26,840 Speaker 1: cabins weren't even pressurized by that point. Yeah, so if 189 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:30,120 Speaker 1: it drops suddenly, which they were wont to do, your 190 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:35,080 Speaker 1: ear drums would surely suffer. Um. But basically, these these dudes, 191 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:39,760 Speaker 1: these stewards were expected to be kind of traditionally masculine 192 00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 1: style icons. Okay, they weren't meant to be style icons, 193 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:47,080 Speaker 1: but they were because you have aviations association with war 194 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:50,839 Speaker 1: and engineering, so it only made sense to have stewards 195 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 1: staffing the cabin who were dressed in military inspired gear. 196 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:57,480 Speaker 1: And that's definitely trickled down. It's why you see flight 197 00:11:57,520 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 1: attendants still wear their little wings. That's why some of 198 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:04,080 Speaker 1: the uniforms still have epaulets. And you know they had 199 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:08,840 Speaker 1: hats with at Jounty angleskins and bobs, doodles and doodles, 200 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:12,400 Speaker 1: who it's and what's it's. Guys love bedazzling their uniforms, 201 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 1: don't you know. But there were plenty of feminine attributes 202 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:22,880 Speaker 1: to the job, serving food being just one of them. Um, 203 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:26,680 Speaker 1: taking care of passengers in general was feminine, quote unquote, 204 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:30,439 Speaker 1: and soon because of that, the job itself became feminized. 205 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:33,559 Speaker 1: And by nineteen thirty six, when Eastern Airlines said that 206 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:36,440 Speaker 1: it was creating a male only flight attendant corps, the 207 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:40,199 Speaker 1: men were being referred to as male hostesses. It was 208 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:43,720 Speaker 1: already so gendered by that point to be an air 209 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:46,600 Speaker 1: hostess that the men were like, oh well, yeah, a 210 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 1: male host test and masculinity so fragile. We can't have that. 211 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:56,079 Speaker 1: So when that happened, though, that was six but six 212 00:12:56,160 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 1: years earlier, in nineteen thirty, we have America, his first 213 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:04,360 Speaker 1: female flight attendant or stewardess arrive on the scene, and 214 00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:08,520 Speaker 1: Mary Ellen Church really finagled her way in. She had 215 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:16,720 Speaker 1: to essentially work her way around through beyond sexism because 216 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:20,720 Speaker 1: she was a trained pilot, she was a licensed pilot, 217 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:24,080 Speaker 1: she was a registered nurse um, so she could fly 218 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:28,520 Speaker 1: a plane. But of course no one wanted a Mary 219 00:13:28,559 --> 00:13:31,520 Speaker 1: to fly a plane. So she was like, okay, okay, okay, 220 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:33,560 Speaker 1: how can I get around this? I really want to 221 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:40,200 Speaker 1: do air travel? Oh well, why don't I suggest that 222 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 1: it would be a good idea to have not only 223 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:47,280 Speaker 1: a registered nurse on board, but also a woman hosts 224 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:50,600 Speaker 1: a sing because everyone's still kind of nervous about how 225 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:54,199 Speaker 1: dangerous air travel is. But if a woman's up there 226 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:58,480 Speaker 1: doing it, then men can't say they're too nervous to fly. Yeah, 227 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:01,079 Speaker 1: and I mean that's exactly her WoT. She said, don't 228 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:02,960 Speaker 1: you think that it would be good psychology to have 229 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:05,079 Speaker 1: women up in the air. How is a man going 230 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:07,040 Speaker 1: to say he's afraid to fly when a woman is 231 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:12,680 Speaker 1: working on the plane. And Boeing is like, okay, sure, whatever, 232 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:16,560 Speaker 1: we'll we'll do this trial. They hire eight women, including Mary, 233 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:20,840 Speaker 1: as a three month experiment, because who knows what might 234 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:24,120 Speaker 1: happen to a woman's body. How many tampons do they 235 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:29,600 Speaker 1: need to So four of the eight flew from San 236 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:34,680 Speaker 1: Francisco to Cheyenne, Wyoming. Four others flew from Cheyenne to Chicago. 237 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:37,800 Speaker 1: And it was such a hit when over so well, 238 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:41,360 Speaker 1: because I can keep in mind, there their nurses, their women, 239 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:46,120 Speaker 1: they're comforting you and bringing you drinks. Um that the 240 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:50,200 Speaker 1: experiment turned permanent, and not only did those eight stay on, 241 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:55,400 Speaker 1: but other air carriers started to recruit their own nurse people, 242 00:14:56,240 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 1: well nurse women, to work the aisles. I prefer gender 243 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:05,520 Speaker 1: neutral nurse humans, thank you. Um. But even from the 244 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:09,480 Speaker 1: get go, their uniform was very stylized. It often be 245 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:14,360 Speaker 1: wearing a nurse's uniform, sometimes accessorized with a snappy beret 246 00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:18,600 Speaker 1: and cape. They were really making capes happen. Yeah, And 247 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 1: I mean that the nurse's uniform was so intentional. I 248 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:25,280 Speaker 1: mean like, there's no reason yet, just because your registered 249 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 1: nurse working on a flight to put people at ease 250 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:32,040 Speaker 1: and potentially attend to emergencies, there's no reason you should 251 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 1: necessarily have to dress like one. I mean you could 252 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 1: wear a suit. They should have had them like dressed 253 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:44,240 Speaker 1: in surgeons scrubs, like masks on and everything. It would 254 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 1: have gone over so well. But I mean instantly, instantly, 255 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:51,120 Speaker 1: how flight attendants look is part of marketing. It's part 256 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:55,040 Speaker 1: of saying hey, passengers. And granted this was still the thirties. 257 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:57,840 Speaker 1: This was so exclusive. You didn't just have like Mom 258 00:15:57,840 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 1: and Paul from down the street flying on airplanes. But 259 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:04,320 Speaker 1: it was a way to ensure these clearly upper crust 260 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:08,120 Speaker 1: important people that they were in good hands. Um. But 261 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:11,600 Speaker 1: even as far back as nineteen thirty eight, Time magazine 262 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:15,440 Speaker 1: was reporting on the lay of the land for flight attendants. 263 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:18,440 Speaker 1: Stewardess is I'm sorry. I have literally been trained my 264 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 1: entire life not to say stewardess, so it sounds like 265 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:24,280 Speaker 1: I'm using a dirty word when I say it. So 266 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:28,400 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna keep saying flight attendant even though it's anachronistic. Um. 267 00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:33,920 Speaker 1: But in night Time reported that uh, women were making 268 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 1: a hundred two a hundred and twenty dollars a month 269 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 1: as flight attendants. UM. Applicants for the three hundred stewardess 270 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:46,920 Speaker 1: posts that existed at the time had to be pretty petite, 271 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:51,000 Speaker 1: single graduate nurses between twenty one and twenty six years old, 272 00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:53,280 Speaker 1: and between a hundred and a hundred and twenty pounds 273 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:56,680 Speaker 1: depending on your height. Uh. And the whole being white 274 00:16:56,760 --> 00:16:58,960 Speaker 1: thing was just implied. I guess I should go ahead 275 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 1: and say, right well there. They wouldn't explicitly say you 276 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:08,720 Speaker 1: need to be a white Christian, UM, but it would 277 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:13,960 Speaker 1: come up in requirements such as all your hands fair 278 00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:19,520 Speaker 1: and soft. Do yeah exactly, we know what that means. 279 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:24,520 Speaker 1: Do you ever eat a satyr? Oh? Really. Oh man, 280 00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 1: I totally fell for it, just because the requirements to 281 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:30,280 Speaker 1: be a flight attendant were crazy. Yeah, and anti Semitism 282 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 1: was just raging at the time. I saw some quote 283 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:35,560 Speaker 1: that was like, yeah, I think I knew one Jewish 284 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 1: girl right. Oh yeah, well in the way requirement though, 285 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 1: they tried to get away with that by saying, listen, 286 00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:45,919 Speaker 1: extra pounds. We can't be carrying all that weight up 287 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:50,359 Speaker 1: in the air. Our plans can't handle it well. And 288 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:53,600 Speaker 1: I mean, obviously that was mostly because of marketable sex 289 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:56,080 Speaker 1: appeal for sure. Um, but you have to look at 290 00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:58,840 Speaker 1: the job because they weren't just there for eye candy. 291 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:02,080 Speaker 1: They clean the cabin and they helped fuel the planes, 292 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 1: often forming a bucket brigade of fuel. They would make 293 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:09,119 Speaker 1: sure to bolt down the seats before takeoff, which is 294 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:14,159 Speaker 1: a very vitally important task. I would think. Um, they 295 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:17,560 Speaker 1: would also be and we're expected to be first responders 296 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 1: in the case of a passenger health emergency or like 297 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:25,520 Speaker 1: a whole plane emergency, like the case of twenty two 298 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 1: year old t w A flight attendant Nellie Granger, who 299 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:33,440 Speaker 1: not only helped critically injured passengers when a nineteen thirty 300 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:37,120 Speaker 1: six flight crashed but had to walk through the snow 301 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:40,959 Speaker 1: to the nearest town to go get help. And I 302 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:47,600 Speaker 1: really love how t W A was like, Nelly, thank you, 303 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:51,280 Speaker 1: you're going on a cruise? Wait? Really? Yeah, they rewarded 304 00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:56,400 Speaker 1: her with a cruise, which cool. I guess it's there's 305 00:18:56,440 --> 00:19:01,560 Speaker 1: no snow, They're true. And also no airplanes on a ship. Well, 306 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:04,520 Speaker 1: when we get to the forties, as we often do, 307 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:08,560 Speaker 1: and stuff, Mom never told you you've got World War two, 308 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:13,240 Speaker 1: all right, And this really serves to solidify the gendering 309 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:18,280 Speaker 1: of flight attendants even more so than it had been already. Um, 310 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:21,159 Speaker 1: you have, first of all, a lot of the nurses 311 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:23,720 Speaker 1: who'd been serving as flight attendants leaving to aid the 312 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:27,040 Speaker 1: war effort. Um and pretty much any man who was 313 00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:29,320 Speaker 1: working as a steward high tailed it off to war 314 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:32,240 Speaker 1: as well. And all of these men and women were 315 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:37,919 Speaker 1: replaced by female non nurses. And even though after the 316 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:41,120 Speaker 1: war it was considered patriotic to try to rehire all 317 00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:45,159 Speaker 1: these stewards who had returned home, Um, you had a 318 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:48,720 Speaker 1: lot of gender bs, basically, a lot of people like 319 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:51,400 Speaker 1: you're in a woman's job, And so there were all 320 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:54,359 Speaker 1: of these weird suspicions already tied up in your sexual 321 00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:56,200 Speaker 1: orientation if you were a man trying to get a 322 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:59,040 Speaker 1: job as a steward. Yeah, I didn't realize that the 323 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:03,560 Speaker 1: stereotype of the gay mail flight attendant goes back to 324 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:07,080 Speaker 1: World War Two well around that time. And this is 325 00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:08,960 Speaker 1: something we've talked about on the podcast a lot before. 326 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:12,639 Speaker 1: Around that time, with men returning to roles that women 327 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:15,479 Speaker 1: had been holding for the entire war. You see this 328 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:21,680 Speaker 1: like uptick in essential masculinity, uh, the need to define 329 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:25,320 Speaker 1: yourself as a masculine man head of the household. Women 330 00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:27,960 Speaker 1: go back to your sphere. Basically society sort of in 331 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:31,639 Speaker 1: an upheaval kind of turbulent period with you know, women 332 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:34,240 Speaker 1: wearing pants. Man, they had to wear pants for work, 333 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:37,399 Speaker 1: usually their husbands. These men were coming home being like you, 334 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:42,399 Speaker 1: you've sold all of my pants, weird um. And you've 335 00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:46,240 Speaker 1: also come out of the early nineteen hundreds, the twenties 336 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:50,119 Speaker 1: and Freud, who'd put forth all of these theories about 337 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:57,080 Speaker 1: anal retentiveness and um theories about sexual orientation and deviance. 338 00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:01,280 Speaker 1: So this is just like a like a uper traditionalist 339 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:06,080 Speaker 1: masculine kind of period. And it took no time at 340 00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:10,560 Speaker 1: all for that stereotype to yield some stats. By nineteen 341 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:14,480 Speaker 1: sixty six, only four percent of flight attendants our men 342 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:20,439 Speaker 1: and of the women others who were women. Of course, 343 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:24,760 Speaker 1: in addition to being very white and very slim and 344 00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:28,560 Speaker 1: very pretty, you could not be married and you could 345 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:32,840 Speaker 1: not have kids because the whole pitch, the whole marketing pitch, 346 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:36,360 Speaker 1: was fellas if you see something you alike, you might 347 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:40,880 Speaker 1: be able to take her home. Yeah, duty free. Yeah, 348 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:42,800 Speaker 1: you can get a bottle of perfume on the plane, 349 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:46,280 Speaker 1: maybe a wife who knows. But that of course meant 350 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:50,880 Speaker 1: high turnover. Um. Women would typically stay in the role 351 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:53,760 Speaker 1: of flight attendant for like two years, And honestly, that 352 00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:56,720 Speaker 1: was my mother's goal too, the woman who's been working 353 00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:59,880 Speaker 1: for eight She was like, I'm gonna go to Atlanta. 354 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:02,679 Speaker 1: I'm gonna get this job. I'm gonna put on that 355 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:06,000 Speaker 1: pastale suit with that hat, and I'm gonna get me 356 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 1: a husband, maybe a lawyer, passenger, maybe a pilot, I 357 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:14,000 Speaker 1: don't know. Yeah she did eventually, but she's like, I 358 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,040 Speaker 1: can't wait to quit six months from now and just 359 00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:18,760 Speaker 1: be a wife. And that was like forty years ago. 360 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:24,600 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that was almost fifty years ago. Because when 361 00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:25,920 Speaker 1: she got the husband, she was like, well, I don't 362 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:30,160 Speaker 1: want to stay home with my husband all day. Um. 363 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:32,520 Speaker 1: All right, And so the the industry is changing after 364 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:35,480 Speaker 1: World War Two. The technology is improving, Thank god, we 365 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:39,359 Speaker 1: have cabin cabin pressurization at this point, faster planes that 366 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:44,439 Speaker 1: can carry more people. But it's still really pricey to fly. Um. 367 00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:51,720 Speaker 1: And so it is still a fancy, glamorous, very exclusive thing. Um. 368 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:54,080 Speaker 1: But this is also a post war when you start 369 00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:59,040 Speaker 1: to see the emergence of unions and women flight attendants 370 00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:03,040 Speaker 1: trying to get organized. Yeah. I mean, because we should 371 00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:06,639 Speaker 1: say that getting the job as a flight attendant was 372 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:10,639 Speaker 1: harder at that time than getting into Harvard. So a 373 00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:13,720 Speaker 1: lot of women didn't want these jobs. And the pay 374 00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:17,440 Speaker 1: wasn't amazing, but it was better than you would probably 375 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:21,080 Speaker 1: make as a teacher or as a clerk at a store, 376 00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:23,560 Speaker 1: and it was glamorous. A lot of women bought into 377 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:26,359 Speaker 1: the marketing themselves and really wanted to be able to 378 00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:29,480 Speaker 1: travel the world. There is a great tear jerker of 379 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:33,119 Speaker 1: a video that Delta put out um on their website 380 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:36,879 Speaker 1: and I it's I totally teared up watching it. And 381 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:39,600 Speaker 1: it's an interview with one of their first ever flight attendants, 382 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:45,040 Speaker 1: Paige Jones, who attended Wesleyan UM in Georgia. You know, 383 00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:47,679 Speaker 1: she's she's so smart, she's going to be a teacher. 384 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:51,359 Speaker 1: Her friend is like, well, Page, let's go to Atlanta 385 00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:53,920 Speaker 1: and try to be one of those flight attendant voice 386 00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:58,159 Speaker 1: her France Sally and and she's like, oh, I I 387 00:23:58,200 --> 00:23:59,959 Speaker 1: don't know about that. I'm going to be a teacher. 388 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:02,240 Speaker 1: Her she tells her mother, and her mother's like, Page, 389 00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:04,359 Speaker 1: to do it. You might never have a chance to 390 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,520 Speaker 1: travel like this ever again. And so from nineteen forty 391 00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:09,919 Speaker 1: three to nineteen forty six, Page Jones worked as a 392 00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:13,080 Speaker 1: flight attendant because she wanted to just see the world, 393 00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:16,840 Speaker 1: to travel, to have these exotic, amazing experiences. And of 394 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:20,000 Speaker 1: course she married a pilot, which is how it goes 395 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:23,399 Speaker 1: when you work in an airline, and had to retire 396 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:28,320 Speaker 1: man because she got married and but her husband stayed 397 00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:31,760 Speaker 1: on as adulta pilot. She had to return home to 398 00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:34,840 Speaker 1: be a wife. How did she feel about that? She 399 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 1: there is no hint of sadness, bitterness, angryness or anything 400 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:43,119 Speaker 1: when you watch this video. She is so happy to 401 00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:46,720 Speaker 1: be part of this airline family. Um and so she 402 00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:50,320 Speaker 1: seems so grateful and and happy that she was on 403 00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:54,639 Speaker 1: the front lines of airline history and still considers herself 404 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:58,040 Speaker 1: a Delta family member. And it does seem like with 405 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:01,600 Speaker 1: all of us, there is that dicho eatomy of these 406 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:05,399 Speaker 1: women and men still today, you know. But but looking 407 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:09,879 Speaker 1: at this earlier history, who really wanted this life? And 408 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:13,200 Speaker 1: there were a lot of amazing things and amazing opportunities 409 00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:16,560 Speaker 1: that came with it. But then on the flip side 410 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:21,560 Speaker 1: of it, you have all of the not so wonderful 411 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:24,800 Speaker 1: things that go along with it, like the men's only 412 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:28,640 Speaker 1: flights that United would offer so they could just get 413 00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:31,480 Speaker 1: uh excellent, the most excellent service and not have to 414 00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:37,040 Speaker 1: worry about sitting next to women. Also they served steak dinners. Yeah, man, 415 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:38,600 Speaker 1: I mean you could. You used to get like a 416 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:41,600 Speaker 1: six course dinner on a white tablecloth. Not these days. 417 00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:46,960 Speaker 1: Tell you what spirit air charge your first spoon. Well, 418 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:51,040 Speaker 1: part of this changing environment was, of course, the emergence 419 00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:55,040 Speaker 1: of unions. In ninety five, a group of speaking of 420 00:25:55,160 --> 00:26:01,400 Speaker 1: United United flight attendants organized the Airlines Do Words Is Association, 421 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:04,560 Speaker 1: which was the first UH flight attendant labor union in 422 00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:07,880 Speaker 1: the United States, and they were pretty successful. They won 423 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:12,600 Speaker 1: voluntary recognition from the company. They achieved pay raises, duty 424 00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:15,800 Speaker 1: our limits, and the right to see their personnel and 425 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:18,200 Speaker 1: grievance records, which is totally a thing that I would 426 00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:21,000 Speaker 1: think that we take for granted today, but they had 427 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:24,320 Speaker 1: to fight for it back then. But not just a 428 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:27,160 Speaker 1: year later, maybe not even a full year. In nineteen six, 429 00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:31,840 Speaker 1: the Airline Pilots Association, which is the Pilots Union, created 430 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:35,159 Speaker 1: a rival and better funded flight attendant union called the 431 00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:40,120 Speaker 1: Airline Stewards and stewardess Is Association that was sort of 432 00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:44,639 Speaker 1: this subordinate branch within ALPA, And in nineteen forty nine 433 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:49,520 Speaker 1: the two flight attendant unions merged under ALSA, the Airline 434 00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 1: Stewarts and stewardess Is Association, which then ended up representing 435 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:57,000 Speaker 1: two thirds of the workforce, or thirty five hundred flight 436 00:26:57,040 --> 00:26:59,639 Speaker 1: attendants on sixteen airlines. And let me tell you, and 437 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:01,440 Speaker 1: we'll re visit that's in a little bit. But there 438 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:03,760 Speaker 1: were a lot of misgivings. A lot of women in 439 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:08,679 Speaker 1: leadership of that separate, independent union that was independent from ALPHA, 440 00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,760 Speaker 1: were like, I don't really think we should be falling 441 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:17,639 Speaker 1: under men under the pilots because maybe that's patronizing. I 442 00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:20,720 Speaker 1: don't know. So, but we'll revisit that in a little 443 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:24,359 Speaker 1: bit anyway. In ninety one also does get to vote 444 00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:26,520 Speaker 1: in their own officers for the first time. They choose 445 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:30,119 Speaker 1: a woman president, Mary Alice COO's and really focused in 446 00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:33,240 Speaker 1: on this goal of getting federal certification for flight attendants 447 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:37,359 Speaker 1: for their safety qualifications, which was one of the steps 448 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:39,919 Speaker 1: in the effort to be taken seriously. It was one 449 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:43,719 Speaker 1: of the first big major steps toward this because getting 450 00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:47,480 Speaker 1: licensed by the government essentially would be proof of their 451 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:50,520 Speaker 1: importance in passenger safety, just as important as a pilot 452 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:53,560 Speaker 1: who flies the plane or the mechanic who fixes it. 453 00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:57,320 Speaker 1: And it would guarantee that their training and hopefully their 454 00:27:57,320 --> 00:28:01,919 Speaker 1: compensation would reflect that really role in passenger safety. And 455 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:05,000 Speaker 1: I'm like, can we talk to Neddie Granger, like, we 456 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:08,920 Speaker 1: already know that flight attendants are vital to passenger safety. 457 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:13,480 Speaker 1: And they came up against not only patronizing pilots, but 458 00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:17,600 Speaker 1: also patronizing regulators who said that licensing such a high 459 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:21,040 Speaker 1: turnover group would not prevent an emergency. They're like, why 460 00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:23,320 Speaker 1: would we want to give you licenses and make you 461 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:26,440 Speaker 1: super duper official when you're just gonna quit and get 462 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:29,480 Speaker 1: married to have babies, and it's like dudes, DIDs DIDs. 463 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:34,320 Speaker 1: The high turnover rate is because you make us quit 464 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:38,920 Speaker 1: when we get married. And I'm sure there were plenty 465 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:41,000 Speaker 1: of women who would want to quit when they got married, 466 00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:43,840 Speaker 1: but I'm sure that there were equally plenty of women 467 00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:46,560 Speaker 1: who would have loved to keep working because it was 468 00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:49,400 Speaker 1: such a glamorous job at the time. Well, and even 469 00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:53,720 Speaker 1: if you don't get married, most airlines had the age 470 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:58,240 Speaker 1: cut off between thirty two and thirty five, which means 471 00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:02,720 Speaker 1: that I am portionate you one my the clock is chicking, 472 00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:06,600 Speaker 1: I'd be out already. But I mean, this is an 473 00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 1: aspect of flight attendant history that totally gets short shrift 474 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:16,560 Speaker 1: um and is overshadowed by all of the sexy sex 475 00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:20,800 Speaker 1: times and the uniforms and oh those sexism and all 476 00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:24,280 Speaker 1: this stuff. But here you have sisters doing it for themselves, 477 00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:30,520 Speaker 1: who are literally professionalizing this new job. And I realized 478 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:34,520 Speaker 1: as you were talking, this is the only history of 479 00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:38,520 Speaker 1: professionalization that I think we've talked about on Sminty where 480 00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:44,760 Speaker 1: it didn't then turn into a masculinized job. But since 481 00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:47,880 Speaker 1: you already have the hierarchy of male pilots at the top, 482 00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:52,600 Speaker 1: that established a glass ceiling. Yeah, and you know what 483 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,800 Speaker 1: side note speaking of pilots and glass ceilings, I was 484 00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:58,720 Speaker 1: when I was poking around for sources on flight attendants 485 00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:01,840 Speaker 1: and labor unions and such, I came across a kind 486 00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:05,800 Speaker 1: of an industry blog, so to speak. It had some articles, definitely, 487 00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:07,960 Speaker 1: there were some interviews where they talked to a lot 488 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:10,120 Speaker 1: of people in the industry. And there was one particular 489 00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:14,760 Speaker 1: article that was about, you know, um, how to pilots 490 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:19,400 Speaker 1: succeed in their family lives when they're away, you know, uh, 491 00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:21,560 Speaker 1: looking at divorce rates and stuff like that. In the 492 00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:24,360 Speaker 1: picture accompanying the article was a man a male pilot, 493 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:25,880 Speaker 1: because that's just what you think when you think of 494 00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:30,320 Speaker 1: a pilot. Literally, the first like five people, the five 495 00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:33,520 Speaker 1: pilots interviewed in that article were women. And I'm like 496 00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:37,040 Speaker 1: sitting at my desk like, yeah, fist pumping. The guests 497 00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:41,320 Speaker 1: were representation for women pilots. But I am sitting here 498 00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:45,320 Speaker 1: cringing because they're only spotlighting women because it's a question 499 00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:47,600 Speaker 1: of how you do it all, how do you balance 500 00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:53,440 Speaker 1: work and life? Well it kind of yes, you're not wrong. 501 00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,680 Speaker 1: I was so excited though, that they were even talking 502 00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:00,720 Speaker 1: to all of these female us. I mean they talked 503 00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:03,080 Speaker 1: to male pilots to I know, I know, if you 504 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:07,720 Speaker 1: could seek Christian's face, I'm giving a feminist what is 505 00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:11,520 Speaker 1: this called? What is my face doing? I know it's scowl, squint, 506 00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:16,960 Speaker 1: wind squind squint. I'm giving Caroline a feminist squint right now. 507 00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:19,360 Speaker 1: I know. I didn't even think about it when I 508 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:21,200 Speaker 1: was reading it. I was honestly just so excited for 509 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:23,880 Speaker 1: the representation. And they weren't even talking about like I 510 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:25,720 Speaker 1: don't think balance was used. I don't think they were 511 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:27,520 Speaker 1: talking about household duties. But there was a lot of 512 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:32,320 Speaker 1: talk about divorce and end of my side note, but 513 00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:35,080 Speaker 1: that's just another layer of gendering within the industry. I mean, 514 00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:38,240 Speaker 1: it's a very very gendered industry for sure. Um. And 515 00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:40,960 Speaker 1: we've talked a lot about gender. But when we come 516 00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:43,200 Speaker 1: right back from a quick break, we're going to get 517 00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:48,320 Speaker 1: back to racism. So stay tuned, bolt down your seats, folks, 518 00:31:48,320 --> 00:32:04,000 Speaker 1: because it's still a bumpy ride. So we're back. Um And, 519 00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:07,040 Speaker 1: like Kristen said, we've obviously got to talk about the 520 00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:13,840 Speaker 1: racial and racist aspect of flight attendant rules, rags and expectations, UM, 521 00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:15,440 Speaker 1: and a lot of this, We've got to give a 522 00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:20,840 Speaker 1: shout out to Kathleen Barry who wrote the book Femininity 523 00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:23,280 Speaker 1: and Flight, a History of flight Attendants. It's really a 524 00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:28,640 Speaker 1: great resource talking about everything from sexism to racism, union history, everything. 525 00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:30,960 Speaker 1: It's it's a great resource for this episode and just 526 00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:34,160 Speaker 1: if you're curious about the industry in general. But um, 527 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:36,800 Speaker 1: you know, when we entered the nineteen fifties and sixties, 528 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:40,720 Speaker 1: things are slowly starting to change. Some things are getting worse, 529 00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:47,040 Speaker 1: like the clothes are getting even sexier and tighter and shorter. Um. 530 00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:50,160 Speaker 1: But you know, you've got union representation growing, and you 531 00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:57,920 Speaker 1: have the racist segregation slowly starting to be broken down. 532 00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:01,360 Speaker 1: And in nineteen fifties seven, a woman by the name 533 00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:05,160 Speaker 1: of Ruth Carol Taylor, who's an African American nurse, was 534 00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:08,600 Speaker 1: the first to push back against discriminatory hiring practices. She 535 00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:10,920 Speaker 1: applied to be a flight to tendant at t w 536 00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:14,240 Speaker 1: A and I think kind of knowing that she would 537 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:17,880 Speaker 1: get rejected, and for sure they did. Um. And when 538 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:20,840 Speaker 1: they turned her down, she immediately turned around and filed 539 00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:23,880 Speaker 1: a complaint with the New York State Commission on Discrimination. 540 00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:28,040 Speaker 1: At the same time, she hears that local carrier Mohawk 541 00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:31,560 Speaker 1: Airlines is specifically looking to hire women of color, so 542 00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:35,480 Speaker 1: she applies there, she gets hired, and she therefore becomes 543 00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:40,320 Speaker 1: the first African American flight attendant in February, big news, 544 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:45,200 Speaker 1: huge news, still just one woman. Uh. Three months later though, 545 00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:49,080 Speaker 1: t w A. I guess they were like, oh should 546 00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:52,640 Speaker 1: we I don't know, they hire Margaret Grant, making her 547 00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:56,400 Speaker 1: the first African American flight detendant for a major airline. 548 00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:59,360 Speaker 1: So one thing though, that we should note about Ruth 549 00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:03,120 Speaker 1: Carrol Healer was that she did not dream of having 550 00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:05,600 Speaker 1: the glamorous life of a flight attendant. She could kind 551 00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:08,640 Speaker 1: of care less. She just wanted to break the color line. 552 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:13,480 Speaker 1: She came at it from a very intentionally activist perspective 553 00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:16,480 Speaker 1: because it was so glaringly obvious to her and a 554 00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:18,359 Speaker 1: lot of other groups at the time, like the Urban 555 00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:23,440 Speaker 1: League and n WCP that even though their whites only 556 00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:27,879 Speaker 1: rule was not codified, it was still, you know, just 557 00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:32,360 Speaker 1: um just they just happened to turn away any women 558 00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:37,400 Speaker 1: of color unless you wanted to be on a carrier 559 00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:42,000 Speaker 1: to the Caribbean or to Hawaii, in which case they 560 00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:46,440 Speaker 1: would hire exotic in quotes looking women of color. To 561 00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:48,920 Speaker 1: add you know, to the to the flare of going 562 00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:53,600 Speaker 1: to one of these tropical locations. So that's some disgusting 563 00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:58,160 Speaker 1: tokenism happening. So you're right, like Taylor goes in and 564 00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:01,920 Speaker 1: she challenges the system and she ends up making history. 565 00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:07,560 Speaker 1: And partly because of that and also the pressure being 566 00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:11,840 Speaker 1: put on UH state commissions to then put pressure on 567 00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:15,920 Speaker 1: these airlines to hire women of color, you have t 568 00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:21,560 Speaker 1: w A essentially having their arm twisted and saying, okay, fine, 569 00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:28,719 Speaker 1: we'll hire this beautiful woman, Margaret Grant, stunning, stunnying woman. Um. 570 00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:36,640 Speaker 1: And there's just this slow trickle effect across the whole 571 00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:41,800 Speaker 1: industry where you see airlines starting to hire a few 572 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:45,880 Speaker 1: African American stewardesses here and there. But one thing that 573 00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:49,239 Speaker 1: was really interesting in the era of the Civil Rights 574 00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:54,800 Speaker 1: Act four, you have LBJ actually getting on the phone 575 00:35:55,120 --> 00:36:00,680 Speaker 1: from the White House calling up Old PanAm et cetera, 576 00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:02,920 Speaker 1: and being like, I can't do an lb J, I 577 00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:07,840 Speaker 1: wish uh, Brian Cranston, we're here to do reprise his role. Uh. 578 00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:11,560 Speaker 1: But nonetheless lb J is using his executive power to 579 00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:14,279 Speaker 1: call these airlines and basically say, look, you gotta get 580 00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:18,040 Speaker 1: with the times, like you have to hire more black 581 00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:21,799 Speaker 1: women because this is this is just this is how 582 00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:23,920 Speaker 1: it's got to be. And so that's when you start 583 00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:27,560 Speaker 1: to see more more black women being hired. And in 584 00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:31,160 Speaker 1: the seventies I noticed in when we were researching the 585 00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:36,319 Speaker 1: uniforms in particular, you start to see black stewartists in 586 00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:40,200 Speaker 1: the lineup, you know, here and there. Um. But what 587 00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:44,280 Speaker 1: was funny slash not funny in looking at the numbers 588 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:48,279 Speaker 1: and how self congratulatory these airlines were, especially in the 589 00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:53,920 Speaker 1: seventies when they were like, we've diversified now four percent 590 00:36:54,160 --> 00:37:00,400 Speaker 1: of our flight attendant force is African American. Yeah. And 591 00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:04,640 Speaker 1: then layers right, because both Margaret Grant and Rose Carol 592 00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:08,040 Speaker 1: Taylor were Yes, they were beautiful, they were also incredibly 593 00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:11,759 Speaker 1: light skinned black women. So you also have the colorism 594 00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:18,400 Speaker 1: aspect where it was semi acceptable to start to quote 595 00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:22,759 Speaker 1: unquote diversify. Um. But there were some women that, like 596 00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:25,839 Speaker 1: Kathleen Barry talked to in her book Femininity and Flight, 597 00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:27,880 Speaker 1: who were like, yeah, I was I was too black. 598 00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:31,879 Speaker 1: Basically I was too dark skinned. And it's not just 599 00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:36,320 Speaker 1: the airline executives who are exhibiting this kind of racism. 600 00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:40,600 Speaker 1: The New York Times reported in late nineteen fifty seven 601 00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:45,200 Speaker 1: that part of their reluctance to diversify was based on 602 00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:48,719 Speaker 1: the fear that, oh, all of these, just like dozens 603 00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:52,160 Speaker 1: and dozens of glamorous white girls, aren't gonna want the 604 00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:56,440 Speaker 1: job anymore, because if they're working with black women, then 605 00:37:56,480 --> 00:38:00,440 Speaker 1: inherently the job is not glamorous. God. Yeah, and then 606 00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:02,719 Speaker 1: of course you have the experience that Kathleen Barry talks 607 00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:05,400 Speaker 1: about in her book Femininity in Flight, which obviously we 608 00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:11,959 Speaker 1: recommend because it's terrific. Um. These first Carol Taylor's would 609 00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:15,880 Speaker 1: also have to deal with racist passengers. Yeah, there was 610 00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:18,320 Speaker 1: one woman, I don't think it was Rose Carol Taylor 611 00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:22,920 Speaker 1: who talks to Kathleen Barry about how a woman passenger 612 00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:26,840 Speaker 1: in one of the flights shrieked when she saw a 613 00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:30,279 Speaker 1: black flight attendant handing her a tray of food and 614 00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:32,919 Speaker 1: refused to allow the woman to hand her her coat 615 00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:36,640 Speaker 1: at the end of the flight. Yeah, I just I 616 00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:39,920 Speaker 1: think out loud to myself, I said, seriously, Well, and 617 00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:42,799 Speaker 1: this is another chapter of the history that just gets 618 00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:48,520 Speaker 1: covered up with the more scintillating bits of stewardessts. Yeah, 619 00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:53,880 Speaker 1: the chance to talk about Amelia Pucci designing uniforms to 620 00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:58,760 Speaker 1: talk about women getting arrested for prostitution, that hit book, 621 00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:03,680 Speaker 1: coffee tea or me a lord. Uh yeah, Sally still 622 00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:07,279 Speaker 1: says that coffee to your Yeah. But as all of 623 00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:11,680 Speaker 1: this is going on in the background, the carriers are 624 00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:17,399 Speaker 1: doing gangbusters. Business is booming. And on the flip side 625 00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:21,399 Speaker 1: of that too, we have to revisit the whole unionization issue. Yeah, 626 00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:23,520 Speaker 1: they have. They have achieved even more. In this time, 627 00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:27,160 Speaker 1: flight attendants from the late nineteen forties to the late 628 00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:31,239 Speaker 1: nineteen fifties started seeing monthly earnings increases of about a 629 00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:35,920 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty percent. So that's awesome. And by nineteen sixty, 630 00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:40,359 Speaker 1: alsa's active membership had grown to seven thousand, up from 631 00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:44,600 Speaker 1: eighteen hundred and nineteen fifty three, and total membership was 632 00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:48,879 Speaker 1: around nine thousand flight attendants on thirty airlines. But here 633 00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:51,200 Speaker 1: it is again, a lot of a lot of flight 634 00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:55,439 Speaker 1: attendants were not pleased with Alpha's oversight. You have all 635 00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:59,879 Speaker 1: of these intra and inter union fights erupting with fly 636 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:04,120 Speaker 1: at attendants realizing basically that they lack the power to 637 00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:08,279 Speaker 1: achieve independence from male labor leaders. All of these you know, 638 00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:12,680 Speaker 1: pilots basically being like nope. UM. And in nineteen sixty 639 00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:15,680 Speaker 1: one and sixty two there were union elections and the 640 00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:20,040 Speaker 1: Flight Attendants Union ends up splitting into so you've got 641 00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:24,319 Speaker 1: one that's a division of ALPA still and then a 642 00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:27,680 Speaker 1: separate one also which ends up becoming a local of 643 00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:33,520 Speaker 1: the Transport Workers Union of America. Whoops, Hey, you're independent, 644 00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:36,799 Speaker 1: but you're still subordinate to a male dominated parent union. 645 00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:39,880 Speaker 1: So like, great, hopefully some of you got what you wanted, 646 00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:43,160 Speaker 1: but you're still not um as independent as I think 647 00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:46,120 Speaker 1: a lot of those flight attendants would have liked. Uh. 648 00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:49,880 Speaker 1: Same year, in nineteen sixty two, flight attendants as a 649 00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:53,320 Speaker 1: pack managed to lobby Congress to push a bill that 650 00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:55,920 Speaker 1: would require flight attendants to be licensed to remember when 651 00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:59,120 Speaker 1: we talked about that from the forties, but it failed 652 00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:02,480 Speaker 1: because of lack of support from pilots and lack of 653 00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:06,480 Speaker 1: support from regulators. And so at this point in nineteen 654 00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:10,719 Speaker 1: sixty two, the flight attendants essentially turn their attention to 655 00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:14,320 Speaker 1: all of those marriage, age and weight requirements to to 656 00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:17,799 Speaker 1: tackling those and bringing those down, because they're like, look, 657 00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:19,920 Speaker 1: we just put a lot of effort into all of 658 00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:23,919 Speaker 1: these licensing and certification efforts, and we've got other things 659 00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:27,520 Speaker 1: that maybe we can do faster. I feel like all 660 00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:35,799 Speaker 1: of that was just these politicians, pilots, etcetera, just saying ladies, ladies, ladies, relax, 661 00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:38,560 Speaker 1: you don't need professionalization. If you're pretty like, you're not 662 00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:40,719 Speaker 1: going to stay in this job very long, right, That's 663 00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:42,719 Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, that's basically what it was. And so 664 00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:47,000 Speaker 1: to get from A to C you had to tackle B, 665 00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:49,960 Speaker 1: which is the marriage requirements. And I mean you still, 666 00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:53,120 Speaker 1: though at this time, have strict appearance requirements. I mean, 667 00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:58,360 Speaker 1: my mother would fast like she would starve herself. You 668 00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:00,640 Speaker 1: had all of these women starving themselves for their way 669 00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:05,160 Speaker 1: ins um and I mean it's still a glamorous job. 670 00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:07,920 Speaker 1: Women are still clamoring for it. And if you look 671 00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:11,200 Speaker 1: at a nineteen sixty six New York Times classified ad, 672 00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:14,480 Speaker 1: you can see what they're clamoring to be. You had 673 00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:17,200 Speaker 1: to be a high school grad single. If you were 674 00:42:17,239 --> 00:42:21,000 Speaker 1: a widow or a divorcee with no children, you might 675 00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:25,640 Speaker 1: be considered UM. Ideally you would be twenty. If you 676 00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:28,440 Speaker 1: were nineteen and a half, you could apply for future consideration. 677 00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:32,840 Speaker 1: Uh five too, but no more than five nine. I 678 00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:36,759 Speaker 1: barely made it too. Five to UM you had to 679 00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:38,640 Speaker 1: be between a hundred and five and a hundred and 680 00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:41,279 Speaker 1: thirty five pounds in proportion to your height. Again, that's 681 00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:47,040 Speaker 1: specified and at least vision without glasses like hyper crazy specific. 682 00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:48,680 Speaker 1: And keep in mind you also were going to be 683 00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:51,720 Speaker 1: no matter if you were tall and thin or short 684 00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:55,160 Speaker 1: and thin, because those were your options as a flight attendant. 685 00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:56,960 Speaker 1: You were still going to be shoved into a girdle 686 00:42:57,040 --> 00:42:59,759 Speaker 1: to keep keep things all smooth. And a lot of 687 00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:03,920 Speaker 1: airlines would do the flick test, and if they flicked 688 00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:07,160 Speaker 1: your behind or your waist or anywhere on you that 689 00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:10,000 Speaker 1: you would traditionally have fat as a woman and it jiggled, 690 00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:13,080 Speaker 1: you'd have to go get a tighter girdle. I want 691 00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:15,680 Speaker 1: to show them a flick test for sure, right in 692 00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:19,280 Speaker 1: the eyeball, um. And you know I mean this, it's 693 00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:22,560 Speaker 1: it's this focus on appearance that does fuel that massive 694 00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:26,959 Speaker 1: flight attendant fashion industry that everybody loves to go look 695 00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:29,520 Speaker 1: at online and look at galleries. And I mean, we 696 00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:31,080 Speaker 1: could do a whole other episode on that. We definitely 697 00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:33,440 Speaker 1: don't have time to talk about all the fashion, um, 698 00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:36,440 Speaker 1: but I know that I've definitely seen fabulous pictures of 699 00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:39,040 Speaker 1: my mother and godmother in those in those little pastel suits. 700 00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:41,879 Speaker 1: I just have to give a quick shout out though 701 00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:44,960 Speaker 1: to which airline was it that had a Pucci come 702 00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:47,839 Speaker 1: in and I want to say it was Brand If Yes, 703 00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:52,399 Speaker 1: it was Okay. So they had this whole wild wardrobe 704 00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:59,840 Speaker 1: that included a space helmet looking hair protector that frankly 705 00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:03,040 Speaker 1: I wish I had because it was it was like 706 00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:07,440 Speaker 1: a giant plastic bubble that would go around their big 707 00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:11,759 Speaker 1: bouffonted hair and keep them looking fresh and beautiful, which 708 00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:14,040 Speaker 1: just a little open space for their for their face, 709 00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:18,000 Speaker 1: for their breathing, because they're human women. Uh yeah, I 710 00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:23,200 Speaker 1: mean they had there were so many crazy, uh outfit gimmicks. 711 00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:25,240 Speaker 1: I mean, you had this thing called the flying strip, 712 00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:28,000 Speaker 1: which to me is a little too close to landing 713 00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:31,960 Speaker 1: strip for comfort. But these women would wear layers and 714 00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:34,360 Speaker 1: layers and layers of clothes and throughout the flight, and 715 00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:37,320 Speaker 1: this was used in marketing. This was an advertisements in magazines. 716 00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:39,920 Speaker 1: Throughout the flight. They would like take off a layer 717 00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:42,239 Speaker 1: and be like, look at me, I'm in a new 718 00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:44,439 Speaker 1: outfit now, and really I just think of my mother 719 00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:46,640 Speaker 1: and I'm like, God, this women must be so hot. 720 00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:49,280 Speaker 1: I want to try that at work. See if anyone 721 00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:52,799 Speaker 1: notices there was also an airline I want to say 722 00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:58,360 Speaker 1: it was United that tried a very short lived gimmick UM. Wherefore, 723 00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:05,000 Speaker 1: each dinner, the stewardesses would have to put on paper 724 00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:11,920 Speaker 1: costumes corresponding to the cuisine. So if they were serving 725 00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:15,560 Speaker 1: American food, they would put on these paper what they 726 00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:18,759 Speaker 1: called Manhattan pajamas. Yeah, it was the it was the 727 00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:22,520 Speaker 1: Penthouse pajamas. If you were flying to New York, you 728 00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:25,680 Speaker 1: had a toga. If you were eating Italian food, there 729 00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:29,399 Speaker 1: was a gold paper dress with a high neck if 730 00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:32,880 Speaker 1: you were I think that was going to Paris. But 731 00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:36,080 Speaker 1: just very strange. But eventually they actually and this is 732 00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:40,760 Speaker 1: I'm not kidding, they ran out of the UM fireproof 733 00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:47,600 Speaker 1: heavy paper material and we're wearing flammable heavy paper material. 734 00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:51,480 Speaker 1: So that that run of of a little marketing gimmick 735 00:45:51,560 --> 00:45:53,880 Speaker 1: lasted a couple of months. Also, can you just imagine 736 00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:59,399 Speaker 1: how loud dinner time would be, just like, yeah, sorry, sorry, 737 00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:01,400 Speaker 1: I just bumped an your paper, I just crushed your outfits, 738 00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:04,640 Speaker 1: just trying to color on you with your crayons. But 739 00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:10,359 Speaker 1: once the airline industry jumped the shark with their overtly 740 00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:15,840 Speaker 1: sexist marketing. It just so happens to coincide with second 741 00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:19,080 Speaker 1: wave feminism, and and there is a turning point when 742 00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:22,880 Speaker 1: people are like okay, really really, which which really seems 743 00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:24,600 Speaker 1: to at least it comes up in pretty much every 744 00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:27,600 Speaker 1: article that you read about this. It seems to really 745 00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:35,000 Speaker 1: crystallize with the Northern Airline flymy campaign where you have 746 00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:39,560 Speaker 1: the headshot of a pretty flight attendant and it's like, Hi, 747 00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:46,640 Speaker 1: I'm Cheryl, fly mey. That's that's not heavy handed? Yeah. Um. 748 00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:50,520 Speaker 1: And it was massively successful. It was a nine million 749 00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:54,080 Speaker 1: million dollar ad campaign, and it had so much spinoff swag, 750 00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:56,080 Speaker 1: like you could get all sorts of things with hi, 751 00:46:56,239 --> 00:47:03,320 Speaker 1: I'm Cheryl or Hi I'm Joe. Condoms included, uh. And 752 00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:05,800 Speaker 1: and then I owe you like hand drawn coupon to 753 00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:09,160 Speaker 1: go take a cold shower. Uh. And also you keep 754 00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:11,359 Speaker 1: in mind, I mean, this is the the golden age 755 00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:16,480 Speaker 1: of the miniskirt uniform. That's part of creating sort of 756 00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:21,000 Speaker 1: great sexpectations for for this line of work. Um. And 757 00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:23,560 Speaker 1: basically it was happening at this time that was reaching 758 00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:27,839 Speaker 1: a fever pitch of sexism and objectification. Is that airlines, 759 00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:32,319 Speaker 1: because of technological advances Because flying was becoming more and 760 00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:37,600 Speaker 1: more democratized, airlines had to sell service to differentiate themselves. 761 00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:39,799 Speaker 1: Like they all had the fast jet. Now they all 762 00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:42,640 Speaker 1: had faster flying times. They you know, they all had 763 00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:47,000 Speaker 1: you know this, many seats could fit this many passengers. Um, 764 00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:50,759 Speaker 1: they had to sell sex basically to differentiate themselves and 765 00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:53,080 Speaker 1: a lot of women at this point we're like, okay, 766 00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:56,600 Speaker 1: enough enough, I'm tired of getting grabbed and groped and 767 00:47:56,640 --> 00:48:01,640 Speaker 1: asked on dates. And they're a Slate article that we 768 00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:05,400 Speaker 1: read about this particular turning point that shows just how 769 00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:09,960 Speaker 1: flight attendants were definitely no longer shrinking violets. So you 770 00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:17,080 Speaker 1: had union members striking, You had UM stewardesses protesting their treatment, 771 00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:21,439 Speaker 1: their exploitation. They were demanding to be taken seriously as professionals. UM. 772 00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:26,120 Speaker 1: They fought against sex based discrimination, against beauty and age discrimination, 773 00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:29,319 Speaker 1: and they had a very helpful tool to do this. 774 00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:32,960 Speaker 1: All they had the Civil Rights Act of nineteen sixty 775 00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:38,640 Speaker 1: four Entitle seven forbade discrimination on the basis of sex. 776 00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:41,879 Speaker 1: So this flight attendants, whether they were unionized or not, 777 00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:46,840 Speaker 1: suddenly had new leverage in challenging all of those bs, weight, marriage, 778 00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:52,480 Speaker 1: and age related rules, and in nineteen sixty eight, the 779 00:48:52,520 --> 00:48:56,560 Speaker 1: federal courts had struck down those rules, prohibiting marriage and 780 00:48:56,760 --> 00:48:59,960 Speaker 1: forcing the thirtysome things into retirement. And in nineteen seven, 781 00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:04,680 Speaker 1: the restrictions against flight attendants getting pregnant work quote unquote 782 00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:08,560 Speaker 1: voluntarily withdrawn, I mean voluntarily, yes, only because the federal 783 00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:12,320 Speaker 1: government wasn't making them put an end to those rules. 784 00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:18,160 Speaker 1: So women using Title seven was massively important. Yeah, because 785 00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:22,800 Speaker 1: the unions had already tried to get these policies overturned, 786 00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:27,520 Speaker 1: but the airlines wouldn't budge. And we should note that 787 00:49:27,640 --> 00:49:30,920 Speaker 1: these kinds of rules do exist in some other countries 788 00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:35,920 Speaker 1: as recently as you have Cutter Airways, which ran a 789 00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:38,719 Speaker 1: foul of the u N and was found guilty of 790 00:49:38,719 --> 00:49:42,080 Speaker 1: discrimination for its policy of firing women who got married 791 00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:46,440 Speaker 1: or pregnant within the first five years of employment. Five years. 792 00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:49,680 Speaker 1: So they're they're trying not to have too much turnover, right, 793 00:49:49,719 --> 00:49:52,080 Speaker 1: They're like, let's let's get him for at least five years. 794 00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:56,200 Speaker 1: And then in nineteen seventy one, we have a Miami 795 00:49:56,239 --> 00:50:03,040 Speaker 1: trucker named Carlos Diaz who successfully sues PanAm who turned 796 00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:05,960 Speaker 1: him down for a flight attendant job, and he bases 797 00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:09,399 Speaker 1: us all on the Civil Rights Act. And I kind 798 00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:12,520 Speaker 1: of love the story of Carlos because he just wanted 799 00:50:12,560 --> 00:50:14,680 Speaker 1: to be a flight attendant. That's like all you wanted 800 00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:17,719 Speaker 1: to be. Because his grandfather was a steward before World 801 00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:21,080 Speaker 1: War Two. Yeah, so it was in his blood blood. 802 00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:25,000 Speaker 1: But Panama was like, you are are not slim, slender 803 00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:28,080 Speaker 1: and sexy enough. I don't think so. But because of 804 00:50:28,080 --> 00:50:31,440 Speaker 1: that decision, the airlines have to start hiring more flight attendants. 805 00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:34,200 Speaker 1: And then the following year, I mean, we really start 806 00:50:34,239 --> 00:50:38,520 Speaker 1: to see this activism snowballing. In nineteen seventy two, feminist 807 00:50:38,719 --> 00:50:45,120 Speaker 1: flight attendants launched the non union affiliated Stewardesses for Women's Rights. 808 00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:50,720 Speaker 1: Love This Their whole thing was protesting those sexist ads 809 00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:53,480 Speaker 1: and the degrading treatment, and they brought up a very 810 00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:59,600 Speaker 1: good point that this hyper sexualized marketing meant that passengers 811 00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:02,880 Speaker 1: wouldn't take these flight attendants seriously when they were actually 812 00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:06,520 Speaker 1: the ones responsible for their safety. Right, It's the same 813 00:51:06,520 --> 00:51:10,200 Speaker 1: thing you see now, We're like, you're just a waitress basically, 814 00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:14,000 Speaker 1: and it's like, oh, well, my mother could save your 815 00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:17,879 Speaker 1: life if she wasn't the kind of person who would 816 00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:21,040 Speaker 1: refuse to touch another human, so good luck getting her 817 00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:25,360 Speaker 1: to do CPR anyway. Um, in nineteen seventy four, you 818 00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:29,560 Speaker 1: get American Airlines flight attendant Paula Kane publishing another turning 819 00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:34,320 Speaker 1: point memoir called sex Objects in the Sky, a personal 820 00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:37,719 Speaker 1: account of the Stewardess Rebellion. And I love this. I'm like, 821 00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:40,520 Speaker 1: oh my god, here's like a woke flight attendant talking 822 00:51:40,560 --> 00:51:44,880 Speaker 1: about objectification. And it's because she'd hooked up with stewardess 823 00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:49,359 Speaker 1: is for women's rights and she learned from them all 824 00:51:49,400 --> 00:51:53,400 Speaker 1: about the terminology and realities around objectification. She wrote in 825 00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:58,239 Speaker 1: her book about being so sick of submitting to abusive businessmen, 826 00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:03,360 Speaker 1: both physically and verbally, and she I think she penned 827 00:52:03,400 --> 00:52:05,560 Speaker 1: the book with a co author, but she was kind 828 00:52:05,560 --> 00:52:08,560 Speaker 1: of a it's kind of a convenient face fork because 829 00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:11,279 Speaker 1: she was also really cute and all American looking. But 830 00:52:11,320 --> 00:52:13,760 Speaker 1: here she was coming as like a full fledged feminist 831 00:52:14,200 --> 00:52:17,759 Speaker 1: out against the sexist treatment of flight attendants. So she 832 00:52:17,920 --> 00:52:22,240 Speaker 1: was sort of the feminist answer to coffee Tea and me. Yeah. 833 00:52:22,680 --> 00:52:24,640 Speaker 1: And you know, also during this time, in the like 834 00:52:24,760 --> 00:52:28,640 Speaker 1: early mid seventies, you've got more people flying. Jumbo jets 835 00:52:28,640 --> 00:52:31,319 Speaker 1: are a thing now the workforce of flight attendants. It's 836 00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:34,719 Speaker 1: forty thousand by nineteen seventy four. But all of this 837 00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:39,600 Speaker 1: also sparks again those union autonomy efforts to break from 838 00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:43,360 Speaker 1: their male dominated parent unions. And from like nineteen seventy 839 00:52:43,360 --> 00:52:45,440 Speaker 1: four to seventy seven, you see a lot of success, 840 00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:47,960 Speaker 1: a lot of flight attendant unions being able to break 841 00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:51,960 Speaker 1: away from those bodies and be the independent unions that 842 00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:54,800 Speaker 1: they had really been working to be for for decades 843 00:52:54,840 --> 00:52:58,040 Speaker 1: and decades. And in nineteen seventy eight you see the 844 00:52:58,080 --> 00:53:01,839 Speaker 1: Carter administration deregulated in the airline industry. The government no 845 00:53:01,880 --> 00:53:04,759 Speaker 1: longer sets the roots and fairs. Ticket prices drop, more 846 00:53:04,800 --> 00:53:09,239 Speaker 1: people are flying, more airlines spring up, and this is 847 00:53:09,239 --> 00:53:12,760 Speaker 1: what old school airline people point to as the nail 848 00:53:13,120 --> 00:53:18,279 Speaker 1: in the coffin for glamorous flight. It's no longer exclusive. 849 00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:22,480 Speaker 1: When I was a teeny tiny child, um my mother 850 00:53:22,560 --> 00:53:24,399 Speaker 1: and I, you know, we would get dressed up to fly, 851 00:53:25,360 --> 00:53:31,360 Speaker 1: and I remember very distinctly, um walking through the airport 852 00:53:31,560 --> 00:53:34,920 Speaker 1: and these two what to me at the time looked 853 00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:40,000 Speaker 1: like ancient women, saw us and saw me in my 854 00:53:40,080 --> 00:53:42,600 Speaker 1: little smock dress with a white card again over it, 855 00:53:42,640 --> 00:53:45,840 Speaker 1: and they were like, Oh, isn't that so nice? People 856 00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:48,480 Speaker 1: used to dress up to fly. We love to see that. 857 00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:51,319 Speaker 1: And I mean my mother still says it. She is 858 00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:54,759 Speaker 1: super judgy about flight outfits. So, going back to the 859 00:53:54,800 --> 00:53:59,000 Speaker 1: whole licensing issue that first came up in ninety two, 860 00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:01,439 Speaker 1: first came up in the forties. Well, when the last 861 00:54:01,480 --> 00:54:04,120 Speaker 1: time we were there, it was nineteen sixty two. They 862 00:54:04,120 --> 00:54:06,880 Speaker 1: took it before Congress, and Congress was like, you're too pretty, 863 00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:10,080 Speaker 1: you don't need to be professionalized. That didn't happen. The 864 00:54:10,120 --> 00:54:15,080 Speaker 1: licensing program for flight attendance did not happen until two 865 00:54:15,080 --> 00:54:21,680 Speaker 1: thousand three, when Congress finally mandated it because of nine eleven. Yeah, 866 00:54:21,719 --> 00:54:24,839 Speaker 1: they were like, oh, I guess you kind of are 867 00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:27,040 Speaker 1: on the front lines of a lot of danger, aren't you. 868 00:54:27,239 --> 00:54:29,719 Speaker 1: We should probably make sure that you have some sort 869 00:54:29,760 --> 00:54:35,359 Speaker 1: of like official licensing to save people. I had no 870 00:54:35,680 --> 00:54:38,799 Speaker 1: clue about that. Not surprising, I mean I was in 871 00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:41,640 Speaker 1: high school. But still, yeah, I mean I wouldn't. I 872 00:54:41,640 --> 00:54:43,960 Speaker 1: wouldn't know anything either, And I haven't asked my mother 873 00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:45,360 Speaker 1: about it. I mean I did ask you about the 874 00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:48,320 Speaker 1: whole union thing, because out of so many flight attendants 875 00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:51,080 Speaker 1: who are unionized, Delta is still hold out. UM. The 876 00:54:51,120 --> 00:54:56,920 Speaker 1: most recent effort in the International Association of Machinists and 877 00:54:56,960 --> 00:55:01,080 Speaker 1: Aerospace Workers withdrew its efforts to have a union election 878 00:55:01,280 --> 00:55:03,480 Speaker 1: with Delta flight attendants. There was a lot of support 879 00:55:03,760 --> 00:55:07,560 Speaker 1: and there was a lot of and go ahead semi letters. Um. 880 00:55:07,600 --> 00:55:10,799 Speaker 1: There was a lot of like intimidation on behalf of 881 00:55:10,840 --> 00:55:13,719 Speaker 1: the union to try to get um, the flight attendants 882 00:55:13,760 --> 00:55:17,080 Speaker 1: to to support it. Um. And you know, I read 883 00:55:17,080 --> 00:55:19,120 Speaker 1: that there was a lot of intimidation the other way too. 884 00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:23,840 Speaker 1: I only know what Sally tells me. Sally's inside scoop. 885 00:55:24,080 --> 00:55:27,120 Speaker 1: Sally's scoop. There you go. She can have a little corner, 886 00:55:27,640 --> 00:55:30,160 Speaker 1: a little ice cream stand. Um, let's be honest, it 887 00:55:30,160 --> 00:55:33,600 Speaker 1: would be a wine stand. Um. But that that works, 888 00:55:33,640 --> 00:55:36,279 Speaker 1: That's all like play on words and literally I think 889 00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:39,680 Speaker 1: that works. Also, let's just make scoop of wine happen. Yeah, 890 00:55:39,840 --> 00:55:43,399 Speaker 1: like a scoop that wine thing, like a scoopy a wine. Um. 891 00:55:43,480 --> 00:55:46,799 Speaker 1: But but one of the big conversations today, aside from 892 00:55:47,080 --> 00:55:50,279 Speaker 1: is Delta ever going to unionize? Um, is you know, hi, 893 00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:53,680 Speaker 1: hello sexual harassment? Oh yeah, it is not a relic 894 00:55:53,719 --> 00:55:57,799 Speaker 1: of a bygone era. Unfortunately, No, And according to the 895 00:55:57,840 --> 00:56:01,920 Speaker 1: International Transport Workers Federation, who represent more than six hundred 896 00:56:01,960 --> 00:56:07,640 Speaker 1: thousand aviation workers. The most common complaints from cabin crews 897 00:56:07,760 --> 00:56:12,680 Speaker 1: relate to physical contact and inappropriate advances. But the thing is, 898 00:56:12,800 --> 00:56:16,600 Speaker 1: most of the complaints that this UH International Federation gets 899 00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:21,920 Speaker 1: are anonymous because despite all the advances we've had in 900 00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:26,800 Speaker 1: the on the ground workplace, UM, women who are flight 901 00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:29,719 Speaker 1: attendants and men who are who are flight attendants are 902 00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:33,160 Speaker 1: still afraid of losing their jobs because it is so 903 00:56:33,239 --> 00:56:38,320 Speaker 1: infrequent for sexual harassment, especially when it's coming from a passenger, 904 00:56:38,560 --> 00:56:42,160 Speaker 1: to be taken seriously. And I'm glad you mentioned men, 905 00:56:42,320 --> 00:56:48,279 Speaker 1: because male flight attendants also experienced sexual harassment and this 906 00:56:48,360 --> 00:56:52,640 Speaker 1: isn't limited to the United States either. In a Hong 907 00:56:52,719 --> 00:56:57,759 Speaker 1: Kong based study found that twenty seven percent of the 908 00:56:57,840 --> 00:57:02,520 Speaker 1: Asian flight attendants it surveyed reported being sexually harassed while 909 00:57:02,560 --> 00:57:08,920 Speaker 1: on duty over the previous year, consisting mostly of quote padding, touching, kissing, 910 00:57:09,520 --> 00:57:14,440 Speaker 1: or pinching, and other forms of sexual harassment they highlighted 911 00:57:14,520 --> 00:57:19,440 Speaker 1: included lu jokes, quote staring in a sexual way, showing 912 00:57:19,480 --> 00:57:24,360 Speaker 1: obscene or pornographic materials, and just straight up explicit requests 913 00:57:24,360 --> 00:57:27,840 Speaker 1: for sex favors, and the majority of that sexual harassment 914 00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:30,720 Speaker 1: was coming from passengers, but still forty one percent was 915 00:57:30,760 --> 00:57:35,680 Speaker 1: coming from fellow workers, including senior cabin crew and cockpit members. 916 00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:39,200 Speaker 1: And I think it was Heather Pool, who was a 917 00:57:39,200 --> 00:57:42,560 Speaker 1: flight attendant UM who was writing over at Mashable about this, 918 00:57:42,640 --> 00:57:46,040 Speaker 1: who was saying that the down route flights, I believe 919 00:57:46,080 --> 00:57:49,960 Speaker 1: they're called. I guess after the flight attendants or have 920 00:57:49,960 --> 00:57:53,160 Speaker 1: have completed their shift and they're flying home, they're not working, 921 00:57:53,680 --> 00:57:57,640 Speaker 1: they tend to booze up. And that's when sexual harassment 922 00:57:57,680 --> 00:58:03,840 Speaker 1: between crew members have most often, and on layovers too. 923 00:58:03,920 --> 00:58:05,960 Speaker 1: I'm sure you can end up getting into some kind 924 00:58:06,000 --> 00:58:09,680 Speaker 1: of sticky situations when booze is involved. Well, and Katherine 925 00:58:09,680 --> 00:58:15,560 Speaker 1: Pool writes about the whole issue of the passenger perpetrated 926 00:58:15,600 --> 00:58:19,360 Speaker 1: sexual harassment not being taken seriously under the mindset of 927 00:58:19,520 --> 00:58:21,800 Speaker 1: a I don't want to be the person who is 928 00:58:22,320 --> 00:58:26,320 Speaker 1: holding up all of these other passengers because of one 929 00:58:26,360 --> 00:58:28,080 Speaker 1: bad apple. You know, it's the whole one bad apple 930 00:58:28,360 --> 00:58:30,960 Speaker 1: ridding the barrel um and also the whole thing of 931 00:58:31,120 --> 00:58:33,840 Speaker 1: you know what, I'm never going to see this person again. 932 00:58:34,680 --> 00:58:39,560 Speaker 1: And and that mindset, though, is so is doing a disservice. 933 00:58:39,600 --> 00:58:42,520 Speaker 1: It seems like to flight attendants because it's like, well, no, 934 00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:45,600 Speaker 1: passengers shouldn't be allowed to do this. I don't care 935 00:58:45,880 --> 00:58:50,400 Speaker 1: if they do get wasted. Yeah, I mean and yeah, 936 00:58:50,400 --> 00:58:52,920 Speaker 1: so it exactly works both ways, the flight attendant who 937 00:58:52,960 --> 00:58:55,000 Speaker 1: lets it go because she's never going to see him again, 938 00:58:55,400 --> 00:58:57,920 Speaker 1: or the passenger who's behaving badly because he's he might 939 00:58:57,960 --> 00:58:59,640 Speaker 1: never see her again. But let me tell you, you 940 00:58:59,680 --> 00:59:01,720 Speaker 1: see the fun attendants if you fly the same roots 941 00:59:01,720 --> 00:59:03,640 Speaker 1: well and yeah, and I'm not even like putting any 942 00:59:03,640 --> 00:59:06,000 Speaker 1: blame on the flight attendants themselves. It's more just the 943 00:59:06,600 --> 00:59:08,760 Speaker 1: it seems like the mentality. Yeah, it's sort of the 944 00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:12,240 Speaker 1: understanding of like, you know, you don't don't don't be 945 00:59:12,320 --> 00:59:15,280 Speaker 1: that person. And and if you are the one who 946 00:59:15,360 --> 00:59:18,520 Speaker 1: reports it, chances are it might, like my nothing might 947 00:59:18,560 --> 00:59:21,280 Speaker 1: even come from it. Pool reported on a coworker of 948 00:59:21,280 --> 00:59:24,720 Speaker 1: hers who was flashed by some famous jazz musician. I 949 00:59:24,760 --> 00:59:26,920 Speaker 1: am dying to know who. Some of you out there 950 00:59:27,000 --> 00:59:29,240 Speaker 1: know who. I assume it is Michael Bolton. Is it 951 00:59:29,320 --> 00:59:32,520 Speaker 1: Michael Bolton? Oh my god, that'd be hilarious. No, that 952 00:59:32,560 --> 00:59:36,400 Speaker 1: would not be funny. Um, So this famous jazz musician 953 00:59:36,640 --> 00:59:40,439 Speaker 1: flashes Pool's coworker for an entire flight, like every time 954 00:59:40,440 --> 00:59:43,600 Speaker 1: she walks up into the aisle, and she did her 955 00:59:43,640 --> 00:59:46,800 Speaker 1: due diligence and had the authorities meet the flight upon landing. 956 00:59:47,800 --> 00:59:53,680 Speaker 1: But the authorities made the call not depressed charges because 957 00:59:53,720 --> 00:59:57,480 Speaker 1: she was an employee, not another passenger. Oh so this 958 00:59:57,560 --> 01:00:00,640 Speaker 1: is just part of a job description. What and and 959 01:00:00,960 --> 01:00:03,680 Speaker 1: Pool talks about that. She talks about it in this 960 01:00:03,720 --> 01:00:05,760 Speaker 1: smash double piece, and she talks about it in an 961 01:00:05,800 --> 01:00:09,840 Speaker 1: interview somewhere else to um about, like, ladies, this is 962 01:00:09,880 --> 01:00:12,360 Speaker 1: what and gentlemen in the world, like, this is what 963 01:00:12,360 --> 01:00:14,480 Speaker 1: we're dealing with with the fallout from all of that 964 01:00:14,640 --> 01:00:19,040 Speaker 1: sexualized marketing, the great sexpectations of like the sixties and 965 01:00:19,080 --> 01:00:22,320 Speaker 1: seventies in particular, we're still dealing with it now because 966 01:00:22,400 --> 01:00:28,080 Speaker 1: y'all feel entitled to grab us or be gross or whatever. Um, 967 01:00:29,160 --> 01:00:35,200 Speaker 1: those those sexual assumptions are still so wrapped up in 968 01:00:35,440 --> 01:00:38,000 Speaker 1: the job of a flight attendant. Well, and add on 969 01:00:38,040 --> 01:00:40,560 Speaker 1: to that too, you have the I don't want to 970 01:00:40,560 --> 01:00:45,400 Speaker 1: say subservience, but they are serving passengers and that really, 971 01:00:45,680 --> 01:00:50,000 Speaker 1: uh you know, gets people's entitlement going. And something about 972 01:00:50,000 --> 01:00:52,480 Speaker 1: the confined space where it's it's not like you can 973 01:00:52,640 --> 01:00:55,800 Speaker 1: walk away from the person never to return. You can't 974 01:00:55,840 --> 01:00:59,160 Speaker 1: lock yourself in the bathroom like you. You have to 975 01:00:59,520 --> 01:01:03,000 Speaker 1: serve the passengers. My mother has been known to tell 976 01:01:03,160 --> 01:01:06,320 Speaker 1: passengers that she will no longer be serving them good 977 01:01:06,400 --> 01:01:08,880 Speaker 1: I mean, and and the pool echoed that she I mean, 978 01:01:08,960 --> 01:01:11,560 Speaker 1: she kind of talks about how there are the flight 979 01:01:11,600 --> 01:01:13,280 Speaker 1: attendants like your mom, where it's like you kind of 980 01:01:13,280 --> 01:01:17,880 Speaker 1: have to take sexual harassment into your own hands and 981 01:01:18,240 --> 01:01:22,440 Speaker 1: either just like shut the passenger down or you just 982 01:01:22,560 --> 01:01:27,680 Speaker 1: let it fly. Let it fly. Nor does it seem 983 01:01:27,720 --> 01:01:34,720 Speaker 1: like flight attendants are being compensated even close to enough 984 01:01:34,800 --> 01:01:38,000 Speaker 1: to where a the should never be acceptable. But it's like, 985 01:01:38,440 --> 01:01:41,880 Speaker 1: on top of this, they're not making that much money. Yeah, 986 01:01:41,880 --> 01:01:45,760 Speaker 1: the media and pay in was almost forty five thousand 987 01:01:46,080 --> 01:01:50,200 Speaker 1: and uh their wages when you adjust for inflation, their 988 01:01:50,280 --> 01:01:54,960 Speaker 1: media hourly wages actually dropped by between nine and two 989 01:01:54,960 --> 01:01:58,200 Speaker 1: thousand seven UM. And and this would be one of 990 01:01:58,200 --> 01:02:02,919 Speaker 1: the big reasons why you have unions UM and why 991 01:02:03,080 --> 01:02:06,160 Speaker 1: people a delta are fighting over the union issue. Yeah, 992 01:02:06,240 --> 01:02:10,040 Speaker 1: because I mean that that fort k is definitely a 993 01:02:10,120 --> 01:02:13,000 Speaker 1: decent income, but in the US you can start out 994 01:02:13,040 --> 01:02:18,200 Speaker 1: making just eighteen thousand a year yeah, and I hope 995 01:02:18,200 --> 01:02:20,840 Speaker 1: that that's for part time work because that just doesn't 996 01:02:20,880 --> 01:02:24,760 Speaker 1: seem right mathematically at all. Yeah, but I mean it 997 01:02:24,800 --> 01:02:28,280 Speaker 1: also goes back like flight attendants have always had a 998 01:02:28,360 --> 01:02:32,240 Speaker 1: history of basically bunking with other flight attendants to to 999 01:02:32,840 --> 01:02:36,680 Speaker 1: manage to even afford the lifestyle. We didn't even talk 1000 01:02:36,680 --> 01:02:42,600 Speaker 1: about all of the flight attendant training dormitories, the stews dorms, yeah, 1001 01:02:42,640 --> 01:02:45,520 Speaker 1: where they had to have electric fences around them because 1002 01:02:45,520 --> 01:02:49,440 Speaker 1: men would try to sneak in. True, it's just it's 1003 01:02:49,440 --> 01:02:52,440 Speaker 1: almost stranger than fiction, all of this. I know, it 1004 01:02:52,560 --> 01:02:56,400 Speaker 1: really is. Well, just I had totally forgotten until you 1005 01:02:56,400 --> 01:02:59,160 Speaker 1: said that about the training dorms and that they would 1006 01:02:59,160 --> 01:03:05,360 Speaker 1: bring these women to like resorts or compounds built specifically 1007 01:03:05,440 --> 01:03:08,640 Speaker 1: for flight attendant training. And sure there would be like 1008 01:03:08,680 --> 01:03:13,800 Speaker 1: a here's how you, um, you know, save someone's life maybe, 1009 01:03:13,800 --> 01:03:17,240 Speaker 1: but it was mostly focused on here's how you walk, stand, 1010 01:03:18,280 --> 01:03:21,720 Speaker 1: handle a coat, um, serve a tray, all of this 1011 01:03:21,800 --> 01:03:24,200 Speaker 1: stuff appropriately. Wait, are you sure you're not talking about 1012 01:03:24,240 --> 01:03:33,320 Speaker 1: Trump University? But bringing a full circle with Donald drum Jr. Um. So, 1013 01:03:33,400 --> 01:03:37,080 Speaker 1: I think the moral of the story is treat your 1014 01:03:37,120 --> 01:03:40,479 Speaker 1: flight attendant like a human. Oh, yeah, and I also 1015 01:03:40,520 --> 01:03:44,160 Speaker 1: have to have this is a selfish on behalf of 1016 01:03:44,200 --> 01:03:50,440 Speaker 1: my mother. Note, Um, your flight attendants clean the bathroom. Um. 1017 01:03:50,560 --> 01:03:52,640 Speaker 1: I don't know what you think you're doing when you 1018 01:03:52,720 --> 01:03:56,800 Speaker 1: go into the airplane bathroom and are disgusting, but just 1019 01:03:57,920 --> 01:04:02,880 Speaker 1: imagine me, and therefore imagine my mother who is sixty 1020 01:04:02,960 --> 01:04:06,360 Speaker 1: eight years old and has to clean up after you 1021 01:04:06,480 --> 01:04:12,440 Speaker 1: insane people on airplanes. So just that's my plea. Please 1022 01:04:12,480 --> 01:04:15,440 Speaker 1: treat your flight attendant and your entire crew crew staff, 1023 01:04:16,000 --> 01:04:19,280 Speaker 1: your entire flight crew like humans. So if Sally were 1024 01:04:19,320 --> 01:04:21,480 Speaker 1: here with us in the studio and we asked her 1025 01:04:22,240 --> 01:04:27,320 Speaker 1: what one piece of advice or request, whatever it might 1026 01:04:27,360 --> 01:04:31,760 Speaker 1: be for being a good air passenger would be, what 1027 01:04:31,800 --> 01:04:34,800 Speaker 1: do you think Sally would say, Um, stop being a jerk. 1028 01:04:35,400 --> 01:04:37,880 Speaker 1: I think a lot of the entitlement I think that 1029 01:04:37,960 --> 01:04:39,680 Speaker 1: a lot of people feel, and the way that they 1030 01:04:39,680 --> 01:04:42,880 Speaker 1: feel that they can treat flight attendants and really anyone 1031 01:04:43,000 --> 01:04:46,840 Speaker 1: in a service position at all is uh is mind boggling. 1032 01:04:47,080 --> 01:04:49,360 Speaker 1: Um I don't I think we need to get it 1033 01:04:49,360 --> 01:04:52,320 Speaker 1: out of people's head that they can um because they're 1034 01:04:52,320 --> 01:04:54,720 Speaker 1: in a seated position and having someone bring a drink 1035 01:04:54,760 --> 01:04:57,720 Speaker 1: to them, that they can treat them like they're dirt. Um, 1036 01:04:57,880 --> 01:05:00,320 Speaker 1: just try to try to act like a Then my 1037 01:05:00,360 --> 01:05:03,720 Speaker 1: mother would probably say, you know, tell him to tell 1038 01:05:03,760 --> 01:05:07,160 Speaker 1: him to be nice and maybe check your bag if 1039 01:05:07,160 --> 01:05:10,360 Speaker 1: you know it's too big for the overhead compartment. Oh yeah, 1040 01:05:10,640 --> 01:05:12,600 Speaker 1: she would tell you to put your own g D 1041 01:05:12,760 --> 01:05:16,360 Speaker 1: bag in the overhead Because I'm sixty eight, I don't 1042 01:05:16,400 --> 01:05:20,720 Speaker 1: lifted those bags anymore. Well, flight attendants listening, because I 1043 01:05:20,800 --> 01:05:24,320 Speaker 1: know there have to be some of you listening, is 1044 01:05:24,360 --> 01:05:27,000 Speaker 1: this ringing a bell? I mean, because I think that 1045 01:05:27,000 --> 01:05:30,120 Speaker 1: that is the danger sometimes of the whole sort of 1046 01:05:30,200 --> 01:05:35,400 Speaker 1: vintage nostalgia of like, oh oh those sexy times when 1047 01:05:35,440 --> 01:05:39,320 Speaker 1: all the women were just seen as wife material. But 1048 01:05:39,440 --> 01:05:44,120 Speaker 1: it doesn't seem like, you know, everything is fine now. Um. 1049 01:05:44,240 --> 01:05:47,640 Speaker 1: So I am curious to know, for people who are 1050 01:05:47,720 --> 01:05:49,960 Speaker 1: in the air and working in the industry, whether you're 1051 01:05:49,960 --> 01:05:52,240 Speaker 1: a flight attendant or just in that world at all, 1052 01:05:52,680 --> 01:05:55,439 Speaker 1: what it's like, and whether it's something that's swept under 1053 01:05:55,480 --> 01:05:59,120 Speaker 1: the rug or um whether it is more of a 1054 01:05:59,200 --> 01:06:02,160 Speaker 1: non issue than the stats at least that we've been 1055 01:06:02,200 --> 01:06:06,320 Speaker 1: talking about suggests that it is. Mom Stuff at how 1056 01:06:06,400 --> 01:06:09,040 Speaker 1: stuff works dot Com is our email address. You can 1057 01:06:09,080 --> 01:06:13,640 Speaker 1: also tweet us at mom Stuff podcast or messages on Facebook, 1058 01:06:13,680 --> 01:06:15,480 Speaker 1: and we've got a couple of messages to share with 1059 01:06:15,520 --> 01:06:27,440 Speaker 1: you when we come right back from a quick break. Okay, well, 1060 01:06:27,480 --> 01:06:30,080 Speaker 1: I have a letter here from Jane. She's actually responding 1061 01:06:30,120 --> 01:06:35,520 Speaker 1: to three episodes lunch Ladies, Custodians and Librarians Um. She said, 1062 01:06:35,560 --> 01:06:37,920 Speaker 1: I felt compelled to email today after listening to your 1063 01:06:38,000 --> 01:06:40,680 Speaker 1: Lunch Lady episode because with this episode, along with the 1064 01:06:40,680 --> 01:06:43,680 Speaker 1: recent one on Janitors for Justice in the Librarian two parter, 1065 01:06:44,000 --> 01:06:46,720 Speaker 1: you've managed to hit on multiple facets of my job. 1066 01:06:47,360 --> 01:06:50,240 Speaker 1: I'm a research librarian for a public employee union that 1067 01:06:50,320 --> 01:06:54,040 Speaker 1: represents custodians and food service workers. Every day I get 1068 01:06:54,040 --> 01:06:56,600 Speaker 1: to come to work and gather studies, reports, and news 1069 01:06:56,680 --> 01:07:01,240 Speaker 1: articles about different privatization and outsourcing campaigns. This information is 1070 01:07:01,280 --> 01:07:04,080 Speaker 1: then used to help protect the jobs of custodians and 1071 01:07:04,160 --> 01:07:08,760 Speaker 1: food service workers employed by school districts, cities, counties, and states. 1072 01:07:09,160 --> 01:07:12,160 Speaker 1: Since so often I'm reading about how private companies flash 1073 01:07:12,160 --> 01:07:15,160 Speaker 1: wages and benefits for their new employees, it was relieving 1074 01:07:15,200 --> 01:07:17,040 Speaker 1: to hear you talk about how much being in a 1075 01:07:17,200 --> 01:07:20,280 Speaker 1: union can help the individuals who are in these often 1076 01:07:20,360 --> 01:07:23,800 Speaker 1: thankless and invisible positions. One thing that I wanted to 1077 01:07:23,840 --> 01:07:26,320 Speaker 1: mention that I believe was left out of the Librarian 1078 01:07:26,400 --> 01:07:29,560 Speaker 1: to parter is how unions have also helped librarians and 1079 01:07:29,640 --> 01:07:33,560 Speaker 1: library workers. Along with representing custodians and food service workers. 1080 01:07:33,560 --> 01:07:36,520 Speaker 1: The union I work for, asked me or the American 1081 01:07:36,560 --> 01:07:40,960 Speaker 1: Federation of State County Municipal Employees also represents library workers. 1082 01:07:41,280 --> 01:07:44,120 Speaker 1: While it's easy to think that unions primarily or only 1083 01:07:44,200 --> 01:07:47,320 Speaker 1: represent blue collar workers and jobs, unions have had a 1084 01:07:47,360 --> 01:07:51,600 Speaker 1: lot of influence on professional employees livelihoods as well. Unions 1085 01:07:51,600 --> 01:07:54,600 Speaker 1: help library workers fight for pay raises and equitable pay, 1086 01:07:54,760 --> 01:07:58,040 Speaker 1: protect against de skilling of the workforce, and help maintain 1087 01:07:58,120 --> 01:08:01,280 Speaker 1: funding for continuing education. Thank you so much for all 1088 01:08:01,320 --> 01:08:03,160 Speaker 1: the work that you do your episodes. You're always a 1089 01:08:03,200 --> 01:08:05,160 Speaker 1: treat and I look forward to all the topics you 1090 01:08:05,160 --> 01:08:09,080 Speaker 1: discussed in the future. Well thanks, Jane, Well, I've gotta 1091 01:08:09,160 --> 01:08:12,640 Speaker 1: let her here. From Audrey, who writes, I just wanted 1092 01:08:12,640 --> 01:08:15,040 Speaker 1: to say a big thank you for your wonderful podcast 1093 01:08:15,160 --> 01:08:18,720 Speaker 1: that constantly expands my worldview. I wanted to thank you 1094 01:08:18,720 --> 01:08:21,519 Speaker 1: for helping me pass one of my two California social 1095 01:08:21,520 --> 01:08:25,960 Speaker 1: work license your tests yesterday. Congrats. I struggle with test 1096 01:08:26,000 --> 01:08:28,439 Speaker 1: anxiety and facing an hour and a half drive to 1097 01:08:28,479 --> 01:08:31,519 Speaker 1: the testing center was not helping keep me calm. I 1098 01:08:31,640 --> 01:08:35,639 Speaker 1: played my next podcast from Sminty, and up came Welfare Queens. 1099 01:08:35,960 --> 01:08:38,160 Speaker 1: I found myself nodding to a lot of your points 1100 01:08:38,320 --> 01:08:40,519 Speaker 1: on both the pros and cons of our current system, 1101 01:08:40,800 --> 01:08:43,559 Speaker 1: and found myself reminded of all the reasons I chose 1102 01:08:43,560 --> 01:08:46,760 Speaker 1: to be a social worker. Sometimes in the trenches of 1103 01:08:46,800 --> 01:08:49,160 Speaker 1: medical social work, it's easy for me to forget that 1104 01:08:49,200 --> 01:08:51,439 Speaker 1: I have an awesome job that lets me help so 1105 01:08:51,479 --> 01:08:53,519 Speaker 1: many people who are stuck in the loopholes of our 1106 01:08:53,520 --> 01:08:56,880 Speaker 1: welfare system. I went into my test inspired to kick 1107 01:08:56,920 --> 01:09:00,080 Speaker 1: butt and get back to social working. I passed to 1108 01:09:00,280 --> 01:09:03,719 Speaker 1: test thanks to a lot of study, gut reactions and prayer. 1109 01:09:04,000 --> 01:09:06,400 Speaker 1: After a good cry on a bench, I headed home 1110 01:09:06,479 --> 01:09:09,919 Speaker 1: listening to more of your awesome feminist work. I recommend 1111 01:09:09,920 --> 01:09:12,439 Speaker 1: your podcasts all my friends, and I'm constantly quoting fun 1112 01:09:12,520 --> 01:09:15,719 Speaker 1: facts I learned from Sminty. Please keep up the good work. 1113 01:09:15,720 --> 01:09:18,919 Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to your podcasts on social workers sometime 1114 01:09:18,960 --> 01:09:22,559 Speaker 1: in the future. Audrey, I am so glad to hear it. 1115 01:09:22,560 --> 01:09:25,280 Speaker 1: We were helpful with you passing your test. And if 1116 01:09:25,320 --> 01:09:28,559 Speaker 1: you've already taken a second one, I hope you passed it. 1117 01:09:28,600 --> 01:09:32,840 Speaker 1: I'm sure you did, because you can do it. We 1118 01:09:32,880 --> 01:09:36,479 Speaker 1: believe in you. And if anyone has any thoughts or 1119 01:09:36,560 --> 01:09:39,840 Speaker 1: experiences highs and lows that they would like to share 1120 01:09:39,840 --> 01:09:43,120 Speaker 1: with us, mom stuff at how stuff works dot com 1121 01:09:43,280 --> 01:09:45,200 Speaker 1: is where they can send them and for links to 1122 01:09:45,240 --> 01:09:46,920 Speaker 1: all of our social media as well as all of 1123 01:09:46,960 --> 01:09:50,280 Speaker 1: our blogs, videos, and podcasts with our sources so you 1124 01:09:50,320 --> 01:09:53,720 Speaker 1: can learn even more about flight attendants, head on over 1125 01:09:53,760 --> 01:10:03,519 Speaker 1: to stuff mom Never Told You dot com for more 1126 01:10:03,560 --> 01:10:05,880 Speaker 1: on this and thousands of other topics. Is it how 1127 01:10:05,920 --> 01:10:14,640 Speaker 1: stuff works dot com