Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News.
Speaker 2: Hi.
Speaker 3: I'm Jennifer Zabisaja. This week we're bringing you a special
Speaker 3: episode from our archives. Each year, up to twelve million
Speaker 3: young Africans enter the workforce, but only about three million
Speaker 3: formal jobs are available, so many are looking for opportunities abroad.
Speaker 3: I spoke with author and Bloomberg columnists Chiku Kumeria about
Speaker 3: why so many people are choosing to leave and what
Speaker 3: future she hopes her young daughter will grow into. We'll
Speaker 3: be back with a new episode next week. On this
Speaker 3: episode of the Next Africa podcast, we'll look at why
Speaker 3: so many young Africans think their future prospects lie abroad
Speaker 3: and what can be done to turn it around. Joining
Speaker 3: me this week from Nairobi is author, journalist and Bloomberg
Speaker 3: columnists Shiku ca Sheik.
Speaker 2: Great to have you here.
Speaker 1: How are you doing, Hi, Jennifer, I'm great, Nice to
Speaker 1: see you.
Speaker 2: Nice to see you too and speak with you.
Speaker 3: This is a very fascinating piece, and I'm sure for
Speaker 3: many people who have been covering the region, it's something
Speaker 3: that's been on the minds for a number of years.
Speaker 3: But let's start with some of the concepts you get
Speaker 3: into in your piece, and one of them is called Jappa.
Speaker 3: Talk to us about what that means and why you
Speaker 3: focused in on that.
Speaker 1: So Japa is a concept of young Africans who are
Speaker 1: so frustrated. Many times they're they're patriotic, they have great hopes,
Speaker 1: they're innovative, they're resilient, but then they get to the
Speaker 1: point where they feel the continent has failed them. And
Speaker 1: japa means to flee, and so now they're fleeing to
Speaker 1: and these are young, educated people, so it's really people
Speaker 1: that the continent should be tapping into and keeping on
Speaker 1: the continent, but they get frustrated and they'll be living
Speaker 1: for Canada, UK or any other any of the place
Speaker 1: in the West that's making it easy for people to
Speaker 1: move for work.
Speaker 3: Do we have a sense to go Why they're choosing
Speaker 3: some of these places that they're going, especially given some
Speaker 3: of the challenges that they're facing here on the continent.
Speaker 3: Is that factoring into potentially where they're going?
Speaker 2: What did you find? Yes?
Speaker 1: So from what I books out, people will go where
Speaker 1: it's easiest for them. So even anecdotally, a lot of
Speaker 1: the friends who I have who young professional, they had
Speaker 1: good education and they've had a great career trajectory. They're
Speaker 1: leaving for Canada because Canada does have they have a
Speaker 1: very immigration friendly program that's going on that it's based
Speaker 1: on a point.
Speaker 2: System welcome, We're so glad you decided to make Canada
Speaker 2: your new home.
Speaker 1: It's easy for people to move because there are people
Speaker 1: who have had opportunities, so they don't to move in
Speaker 1: illegal ways. They want to move in a way where
Speaker 1: they know I will be able to get proper documentation
Speaker 1: after a while. There's an opportunity for residency, and there's
Speaker 1: an opportunity for citizenship. And also, anecdotally, one thing I
Speaker 1: can say that makes me notice this trend is really happening.
Speaker 1: Quite a few of the people who are even in
Speaker 1: my own circle, of the people who are moving are
Speaker 1: people who were educated even in the West. So it
Speaker 1: means they went abroad, whether they went to Canada or
Speaker 1: went to France, whether they were in the US, they
Speaker 1: went abroad, studied and came back to the continent with
Speaker 1: great hopes of what they could do when they came back.
Speaker 1: So they didn't even try to stay at that time.
Speaker 1: They didn't try to get residency or immigration or immigrant
Speaker 1: at that stage. And then they've come back and after
Speaker 1: five years, ten years, they've just filled their opportunities here
Speaker 1: and not it's not what they expected, and so out
Speaker 1: of frustration, they're taking all their amazing skills and their
Speaker 1: experience and just trying to build a better life for
Speaker 1: themselves and their families abroad. So I think it's it's
Speaker 1: a real loss for the continent. I believe it's again
Speaker 1: for the countries that get them, but it's really a
Speaker 1: loss also for the continent well.
Speaker 3: And it comes at a time where you mentioned the
Speaker 3: population increase. There's also a lot more of a focus
Speaker 3: on development on the continent and really a lot of
Speaker 3: the industries that could power the future literally and figuratively.
Speaker 2: But when we talk about.
Speaker 3: Employment figures and the underemployment figures, I guess.
Speaker 2: I mean, how bad is it?
Speaker 3: What are we looking at, especially when we factor in
Speaker 3: a lot of the people who are leaving and finding
Speaker 3: opportunities elsewhere.
Speaker 1: It varies country to country, but I would say youth
Speaker 1: and employment rates are generally quite high across the continent,
Speaker 1: and we're starting to lose people who have we definitely need,
Speaker 1: like we're losing huge numbers of Nazis. We're losing huge
Speaker 1: numbers of doctors, teachers, so highly engineers, so highly skilled
Speaker 1: people who the continent really needs right now at this time.
Speaker 1: An example I given the article was engineers. So there's
Speaker 1: also a huge wave of migration among older engineers. So
Speaker 1: right now, when the continent needs infrastructure, when it needs
Speaker 1: people with all these expertise, you're having engineers who are
Speaker 1: in their fifties, sixties, who have all this experience, and
Speaker 1: they're choosing to move elsewhere.
Speaker 2: That's surprising.
Speaker 3: I mean, I wonder after you wrote this story, I
Speaker 3: wonder what kind of did you get any feedback or
Speaker 3: how are people responding to it?
Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of the feedback I got was, first,
Speaker 1: the one thing, no one is blaming anyone for leaving,
Speaker 1: because there is an acknowledgment that patriotism, love of your country,
Speaker 1: all those can only take you so far. At some point.
Speaker 1: You want to make sure you know your children will
Speaker 1: have great education opportunities. You want to have access to healthcare.
Speaker 1: If you have aging parents, you want to know that
Speaker 1: they'll be you know you'll be able to provide for
Speaker 1: them deep into their old age. So there is an
Speaker 1: acknowledgment that the people who are leaving no one is saying, oh,
Speaker 1: it's so terrible of them to leave, but we are
Speaker 1: knowwledging that it's terrible that the continent is losing these people.
Speaker 1: I did get a few responses from people who have
Speaker 1: left or japaed. I guess they told me, Oh, this
Speaker 1: is my exact story, and it's the truth. I wanted
Speaker 1: things to walk out. I tried everything when I was
Speaker 1: in Kenya, Senega, Nigeria, Ghana. I tried everything to make
Speaker 1: things work, and eventually I just realized that it can't
Speaker 1: work for me there and I'm leaving. So there's also
Speaker 1: that feeling and for the people who are leaving, it's bittersweet.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's fair.
Speaker 3: Anywhere you go on the continent and talk to people,
Speaker 3: there still is that patriotism.
Speaker 2: SHEI could stay with us.
Speaker 3: When we come back, we'll talk about what kind of
Speaker 3: investment could help people to stay on the continent and.
Speaker 2: Dig more into your reporting. We'll be right back.
Speaker 3: Welcome back today on the podcast, we are looking at
Speaker 3: Africa's youth brain Drain and joining us is Bloomberg columnists
Speaker 3: Chiku Kmeria.
Speaker 2: She wrote a.
Speaker 3: Really wonderful story that is now available if you haven't
Speaker 3: read it, so she could. We did see President Biden
Speaker 3: in Angola this week. Outgoing President Biden, I think we
Speaker 3: should we should mention. He did make a number of
Speaker 3: announcements about some of the investment that the US is
Speaker 3: going to be committing to, at least for Africa and
Speaker 3: for Angola in particular. But what kind of investment are
Speaker 3: we talking about to potentially see a difference or a
Speaker 3: shift in some of the trends of people leaving to
Speaker 3: go elsewhere.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think outgoing President Biden did say some very
Speaker 1: interesting things during his visit.
Speaker 4: We know African leaders and citizens are seeking more than
Speaker 4: just aid, you seek investment. So the United States has
Speaker 4: expanding our relationship all across Africa, from assistance to aid,
Speaker 4: investment to trade coming from patrons to partners.
Speaker 1: Aid is always going to be needed, even in the US,
Speaker 1: even in developing countries. There's always going to be situations
Speaker 1: where there's people who need They don't need loans, they
Speaker 1: need grants, they need those benevolent funds that are coming in.
Speaker 1: But he did acknowledge that Africa and US and other
Speaker 1: partners should come to the table as equals. So even
Speaker 1: when investors are coming to the continent. They should come
Speaker 1: to the continent not with the mentality of your poor,
Speaker 1: I'm here to help you. They should come to the
Speaker 1: table with the idea that we're business people. The opportunities
Speaker 1: are here on the continent. There's the people who have
Speaker 1: been running businesses, there's the entrepreneurs who have the networks
Speaker 1: and everything, and maybe what they need is the financing.
Speaker 1: So also acknowledging that it can be a win win
Speaker 1: situation and that it should be a partnership. Another thing
Speaker 1: I liked, especially about the little bit Or corridor project
Speaker 1: that he was launching in Angola. We definitely need investments
Speaker 1: that go into government and infrastructure, because infrastructure is going
Speaker 1: to be a huge backbone of development on the continent.
Speaker 1: But we also need investments that's going into the private sector.
Speaker 1: So when we're talking about infrastructure, it's true there's a
Speaker 1: huge need on the continent for improved road, rail networks.
Speaker 1: Even we're talking about like aviation. There's a huge potential
Speaker 1: that could be unlocked if all these things were working
Speaker 1: much better. But all the other hand, we also do
Speaker 1: need that for the private sector because the formal sector
Speaker 1: will never be able to incomparate that many people. But
Speaker 1: you have to acknowledge that there's a lot of businesses
Speaker 1: that are running, and they're running at a small scale,
Speaker 1: but the ideas could be there. The ideas could be great,
Speaker 1: and what they need is additional funding. I used to
Speaker 1: be the Quite Africa editor and so we focus a
Speaker 1: lot on technology and innovation, and one of the things
Speaker 1: we noticed was that startup funding, even to Africa, as
Speaker 1: much as it's increased over the past decades, it's still
Speaker 1: such a miniscule figure. It's still so tiny how much
Speaker 1: venture capital and all this funding comes into technology in
Speaker 1: Africa versus in other places. But there's so many opportunities
Speaker 1: here on the continent and so many startups that if
Speaker 1: they just got those the seed frunding they got, you know,
Speaker 1: if they got all that all that funding that goes
Speaker 1: into startups globally, they could be able to change the
Speaker 1: market and they could be able to also employ a
Speaker 1: lot of people.
Speaker 3: Does that get to some of the other things that
Speaker 3: you bring up in the piece about what could potentially
Speaker 3: make a difference, I mean, what else would potentially push
Speaker 3: the needle even more so.
Speaker 1: Another thing that could that's definitely important is that the
Speaker 1: governments need to make sure they're enablers, they're not making
Speaker 1: additional constraints for businesses, because there is a mentality even
Speaker 1: in my own country in Kenya that sometimes it's so
Speaker 1: hard for people to get their businesses up, businesses running,
Speaker 1: it's so hard for them to access financing. Then after
Speaker 1: all that, many times they don't feel that the government
Speaker 1: is their friend because you finally get your business running,
Speaker 1: then taxes are being added on it. Then there's other
Speaker 1: charges that are coming your way that make you have
Speaker 1: to stop the business or lay off people. So I
Speaker 1: think governments also need to acknowledge that a lot of
Speaker 1: these jobs are going to be created by the private
Speaker 1: sector and businesses, and they need to make an environment
Speaker 1: that forced us their growth so that they don't they
Speaker 1: don't hamstring them even just when they're at the stage
Speaker 1: where they're trying to start up.
Speaker 3: And you have a young daughter yourself, just talking about family,
Speaker 3: have you thought about whether or not, you know, you'd
Speaker 3: encourage her to build a career in Nairobi or anywhere
Speaker 3: on the continent or what at all?
Speaker 2: Have you thought about sort of her future?
Speaker 1: Great, So my daughter is four, so I would say
Speaker 1: I've not yet thought of her future career processs. But
Speaker 1: what I would what I want is this. Sudan is
Speaker 1: probably mentioned in the article which says we wish two
Speaker 1: things for our children. One is roots and the other
Speaker 1: is wings. So that's what I really hope for her.
Speaker 1: I wish for her a world where she has her roots.
Speaker 1: Her roots arend the African continent, but she also has
Speaker 1: wings that will allow her to fly. But I also
Speaker 1: hope that when it comes to the time of when
Speaker 1: she's going to high school, university, or making future decisions,
Speaker 1: I hope that if she's moving, it's because she wants to,
Speaker 1: not because she's supposed to. On the lower level, they
Speaker 1: are people who are getting into boats and crossing the Mediterranean,
Speaker 1: risking their life just because things are so dire that
Speaker 1: they're not working for them that they'd rather take the
Speaker 1: chance of drowning than watching themselves and their families like
Speaker 1: just staff today. And that's how dire the situation is
Speaker 1: that for most people it's a question of survival, not
Speaker 1: just this I have this option and this other option
Speaker 1: is better. But for many people it's really migration. Right now,
Speaker 1: it seems to be their only opportunity for them to
Speaker 1: put food on the table or to even enhance their lives.
Speaker 1: And I don't want that to be the future that
Speaker 1: my daughter grows up in.
Speaker 3: Hiku Ka Maria, thank you so much for joining us,
Speaker 3: and you can of course read she Could's piece on Bloomberg.
Speaker 3: It is available right now. Here's a few other stories
Speaker 3: we're watching in the region. This week, Ghana's inflation jumped
Speaker 3: to a six month high at twenty three percent ahead
Speaker 3: of the countries December seventh percentsidential elections. The cost of
Speaker 3: living crisis will be a factor in the elections, with
Speaker 3: voters angry with the government's handling of the economy expected
Speaker 3: to result in opposition candidate John Mohamma being.
Speaker 2: Elected the next leader of the West African.
Speaker 3: Nation, and South Africa risks missing its twenty twenty four
Speaker 3: economic growth forecast after the agricultural sector's deepest slump in
Speaker 3: at least three decades led to an unexpected contraction in
Speaker 3: the third quarter. The quarterly decline meant gross domestic product
Speaker 3: expanded a meager four tenths of a percent in the
Speaker 3: nine months through September. Data published by Statistics South Africa
Speaker 3: on Tuesday shows that suggests the National Treasury and the
Speaker 3: South African Reserve Banks twenty twenty four.
Speaker 2: Growth estimates of one point one percent.
Speaker 3: Will likely prove overly optimistic, and you can follow these
Speaker 3: stories across Bloomberg, including the Next African Newsletter where we
Speaker 3: will have coverage of the Ganayan elections. Will put a
Speaker 3: link to that in the show notes. This program was
Speaker 3: produced by Adrian Bradley. Don't forget to follow and review
Speaker 3: this show wherever you usually get your podcasts.
Speaker 2: I'm Jennifer's Abasaja. Thanks for listening.