1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:07,000 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News. 2 00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:07,440 Speaker 2: Hi. 3 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:11,040 Speaker 3: I'm Jennifer Zabisaja. This week we're bringing you a special 4 00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:15,160 Speaker 3: episode from our archives. Each year, up to twelve million 5 00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:18,919 Speaker 3: young Africans enter the workforce, but only about three million 6 00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:23,560 Speaker 3: formal jobs are available, so many are looking for opportunities abroad. 7 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 3: I spoke with author and Bloomberg columnists Chiku Kumeria about 8 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 3: why so many people are choosing to leave and what 9 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:34,320 Speaker 3: future she hopes her young daughter will grow into. We'll 10 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:40,280 Speaker 3: be back with a new episode next week. On this 11 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 3: episode of the Next Africa podcast, we'll look at why 12 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:47,720 Speaker 3: so many young Africans think their future prospects lie abroad 13 00:00:48,159 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 3: and what can be done to turn it around. Joining 14 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 3: me this week from Nairobi is author, journalist and Bloomberg 15 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 3: columnists Shiku ca Sheik. 16 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:01,920 Speaker 2: Great to have you here. 17 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:04,840 Speaker 1: How are you doing, Hi, Jennifer, I'm great, Nice to 18 00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 1: see you. 19 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 2: Nice to see you too and speak with you. 20 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:11,160 Speaker 3: This is a very fascinating piece, and I'm sure for 21 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:14,480 Speaker 3: many people who have been covering the region, it's something 22 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:17,400 Speaker 3: that's been on the minds for a number of years. 23 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:19,520 Speaker 3: But let's start with some of the concepts you get 24 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:23,080 Speaker 3: into in your piece, and one of them is called Jappa. 25 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 3: Talk to us about what that means and why you 26 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:27,960 Speaker 3: focused in on that. 27 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 1: So Japa is a concept of young Africans who are 28 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:37,720 Speaker 1: so frustrated. Many times they're they're patriotic, they have great hopes, 29 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:40,600 Speaker 1: they're innovative, they're resilient, but then they get to the 30 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:44,160 Speaker 1: point where they feel the continent has failed them. And 31 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:46,960 Speaker 1: japa means to flee, and so now they're fleeing to 32 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:49,880 Speaker 1: and these are young, educated people, so it's really people 33 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 1: that the continent should be tapping into and keeping on 34 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:55,240 Speaker 1: the continent, but they get frustrated and they'll be living 35 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 1: for Canada, UK or any other any of the place 36 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:00,560 Speaker 1: in the West that's making it easy for people to 37 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 1: move for work. 38 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 3: Do we have a sense to go Why they're choosing 39 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:08,080 Speaker 3: some of these places that they're going, especially given some 40 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:10,400 Speaker 3: of the challenges that they're facing here on the continent. 41 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:14,440 Speaker 3: Is that factoring into potentially where they're going? 42 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:16,600 Speaker 2: What did you find? Yes? 43 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 1: So from what I books out, people will go where 44 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 1: it's easiest for them. So even anecdotally, a lot of 45 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 1: the friends who I have who young professional, they had 46 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:30,680 Speaker 1: good education and they've had a great career trajectory. They're 47 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 1: leaving for Canada because Canada does have they have a 48 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:38,240 Speaker 1: very immigration friendly program that's going on that it's based 49 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:38,959 Speaker 1: on a point. 50 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:44,800 Speaker 2: System welcome, We're so glad you decided to make Canada 51 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:45,680 Speaker 2: your new home. 52 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:47,919 Speaker 1: It's easy for people to move because there are people 53 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 1: who have had opportunities, so they don't to move in 54 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 1: illegal ways. They want to move in a way where 55 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 1: they know I will be able to get proper documentation 56 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:59,040 Speaker 1: after a while. There's an opportunity for residency, and there's 57 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 1: an opportunity for citizenship. And also, anecdotally, one thing I 58 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 1: can say that makes me notice this trend is really happening. 59 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:08,800 Speaker 1: Quite a few of the people who are even in 60 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:11,800 Speaker 1: my own circle, of the people who are moving are 61 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 1: people who were educated even in the West. So it 62 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:17,919 Speaker 1: means they went abroad, whether they went to Canada or 63 00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 1: went to France, whether they were in the US, they 64 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:22,760 Speaker 1: went abroad, studied and came back to the continent with 65 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:25,919 Speaker 1: great hopes of what they could do when they came back. 66 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:28,080 Speaker 1: So they didn't even try to stay at that time. 67 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:31,160 Speaker 1: They didn't try to get residency or immigration or immigrant 68 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 1: at that stage. And then they've come back and after 69 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 1: five years, ten years, they've just filled their opportunities here 70 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 1: and not it's not what they expected, and so out 71 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 1: of frustration, they're taking all their amazing skills and their 72 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:47,480 Speaker 1: experience and just trying to build a better life for 73 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 1: themselves and their families abroad. So I think it's it's 74 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 1: a real loss for the continent. I believe it's again 75 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 1: for the countries that get them, but it's really a 76 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 1: loss also for the continent well. 77 00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 3: And it comes at a time where you mentioned the 78 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 3: population increase. There's also a lot more of a focus 79 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:08,920 Speaker 3: on development on the continent and really a lot of 80 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 3: the industries that could power the future literally and figuratively. 81 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 2: But when we talk about. 82 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 3: Employment figures and the underemployment figures, I guess. 83 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:20,920 Speaker 2: I mean, how bad is it? 84 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 3: What are we looking at, especially when we factor in 85 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:26,360 Speaker 3: a lot of the people who are leaving and finding 86 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 3: opportunities elsewhere. 87 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:30,799 Speaker 1: It varies country to country, but I would say youth 88 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:34,799 Speaker 1: and employment rates are generally quite high across the continent, 89 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:39,120 Speaker 1: and we're starting to lose people who have we definitely need, 90 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:42,680 Speaker 1: like we're losing huge numbers of Nazis. We're losing huge 91 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 1: numbers of doctors, teachers, so highly engineers, so highly skilled 92 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:50,440 Speaker 1: people who the continent really needs right now at this time. 93 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:53,800 Speaker 1: An example I given the article was engineers. So there's 94 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 1: also a huge wave of migration among older engineers. So 95 00:04:57,040 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 1: right now, when the continent needs infrastructure, when it needs 96 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 1: people with all these expertise, you're having engineers who are 97 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:06,159 Speaker 1: in their fifties, sixties, who have all this experience, and 98 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:07,719 Speaker 1: they're choosing to move elsewhere. 99 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 2: That's surprising. 100 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:12,800 Speaker 3: I mean, I wonder after you wrote this story, I 101 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 3: wonder what kind of did you get any feedback or 102 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:18,480 Speaker 3: how are people responding to it? 103 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of the feedback I got was, first, 104 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 1: the one thing, no one is blaming anyone for leaving, 105 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:29,680 Speaker 1: because there is an acknowledgment that patriotism, love of your country, 106 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 1: all those can only take you so far. At some point. 107 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:34,360 Speaker 1: You want to make sure you know your children will 108 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 1: have great education opportunities. You want to have access to healthcare. 109 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:40,719 Speaker 1: If you have aging parents, you want to know that 110 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:42,479 Speaker 1: they'll be you know you'll be able to provide for 111 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:44,919 Speaker 1: them deep into their old age. So there is an 112 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:48,720 Speaker 1: acknowledgment that the people who are leaving no one is saying, oh, 113 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 1: it's so terrible of them to leave, but we are 114 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:54,440 Speaker 1: knowwledging that it's terrible that the continent is losing these people. 115 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 1: I did get a few responses from people who have 116 00:05:57,200 --> 00:05:59,599 Speaker 1: left or japaed. I guess they told me, Oh, this 117 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:02,960 Speaker 1: is my exact story, and it's the truth. I wanted 118 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:05,599 Speaker 1: things to walk out. I tried everything when I was 119 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 1: in Kenya, Senega, Nigeria, Ghana. I tried everything to make 120 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:13,599 Speaker 1: things work, and eventually I just realized that it can't 121 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:16,840 Speaker 1: work for me there and I'm leaving. So there's also 122 00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:20,159 Speaker 1: that feeling and for the people who are leaving, it's bittersweet. 123 00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's fair. 124 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:24,919 Speaker 3: Anywhere you go on the continent and talk to people, 125 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 3: there still is that patriotism. 126 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 2: SHEI could stay with us. 127 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:30,599 Speaker 3: When we come back, we'll talk about what kind of 128 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:34,400 Speaker 3: investment could help people to stay on the continent and. 129 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 2: Dig more into your reporting. We'll be right back. 130 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:48,080 Speaker 3: Welcome back today on the podcast, we are looking at 131 00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:52,400 Speaker 3: Africa's youth brain Drain and joining us is Bloomberg columnists 132 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 3: Chiku Kmeria. 133 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 2: She wrote a. 134 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:57,960 Speaker 3: Really wonderful story that is now available if you haven't 135 00:06:57,960 --> 00:07:01,720 Speaker 3: read it, so she could. We did see President Biden 136 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:05,120 Speaker 3: in Angola this week. Outgoing President Biden, I think we 137 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 3: should we should mention. He did make a number of 138 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 3: announcements about some of the investment that the US is 139 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:16,320 Speaker 3: going to be committing to, at least for Africa and 140 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:21,160 Speaker 3: for Angola in particular. But what kind of investment are 141 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:24,160 Speaker 3: we talking about to potentially see a difference or a 142 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:28,680 Speaker 3: shift in some of the trends of people leaving to 143 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 3: go elsewhere. 144 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think outgoing President Biden did say some very 145 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 1: interesting things during his visit. 146 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 4: We know African leaders and citizens are seeking more than 147 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 4: just aid, you seek investment. So the United States has 148 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 4: expanding our relationship all across Africa, from assistance to aid, 149 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 4: investment to trade coming from patrons to partners. 150 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 1: Aid is always going to be needed, even in the US, 151 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 1: even in developing countries. There's always going to be situations 152 00:07:57,480 --> 00:08:00,360 Speaker 1: where there's people who need They don't need loans, they 153 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:03,920 Speaker 1: need grants, they need those benevolent funds that are coming in. 154 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 1: But he did acknowledge that Africa and US and other 155 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 1: partners should come to the table as equals. So even 156 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 1: when investors are coming to the continent. They should come 157 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 1: to the continent not with the mentality of your poor, 158 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:18,000 Speaker 1: I'm here to help you. They should come to the 159 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:20,680 Speaker 1: table with the idea that we're business people. The opportunities 160 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 1: are here on the continent. There's the people who have 161 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 1: been running businesses, there's the entrepreneurs who have the networks 162 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 1: and everything, and maybe what they need is the financing. 163 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 1: So also acknowledging that it can be a win win 164 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:36,960 Speaker 1: situation and that it should be a partnership. Another thing 165 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:40,120 Speaker 1: I liked, especially about the little bit Or corridor project 166 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 1: that he was launching in Angola. We definitely need investments 167 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:48,200 Speaker 1: that go into government and infrastructure, because infrastructure is going 168 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:50,680 Speaker 1: to be a huge backbone of development on the continent. 169 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 1: But we also need investments that's going into the private sector. 170 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:56,600 Speaker 1: So when we're talking about infrastructure, it's true there's a 171 00:08:56,679 --> 00:09:00,559 Speaker 1: huge need on the continent for improved road, rail networks. 172 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:04,199 Speaker 1: Even we're talking about like aviation. There's a huge potential 173 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:07,320 Speaker 1: that could be unlocked if all these things were working 174 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:09,720 Speaker 1: much better. But all the other hand, we also do 175 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 1: need that for the private sector because the formal sector 176 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:15,200 Speaker 1: will never be able to incomparate that many people. But 177 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 1: you have to acknowledge that there's a lot of businesses 178 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 1: that are running, and they're running at a small scale, 179 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:22,640 Speaker 1: but the ideas could be there. The ideas could be great, 180 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 1: and what they need is additional funding. I used to 181 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:27,599 Speaker 1: be the Quite Africa editor and so we focus a 182 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 1: lot on technology and innovation, and one of the things 183 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:33,720 Speaker 1: we noticed was that startup funding, even to Africa, as 184 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:37,760 Speaker 1: much as it's increased over the past decades, it's still 185 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:41,800 Speaker 1: such a miniscule figure. It's still so tiny how much 186 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 1: venture capital and all this funding comes into technology in 187 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:49,679 Speaker 1: Africa versus in other places. But there's so many opportunities 188 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:52,240 Speaker 1: here on the continent and so many startups that if 189 00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:55,000 Speaker 1: they just got those the seed frunding they got, you know, 190 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:56,960 Speaker 1: if they got all that all that funding that goes 191 00:09:57,000 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 1: into startups globally, they could be able to change the 192 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 1: market and they could be able to also employ a 193 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 1: lot of people. 194 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:05,719 Speaker 3: Does that get to some of the other things that 195 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 3: you bring up in the piece about what could potentially 196 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:13,319 Speaker 3: make a difference, I mean, what else would potentially push 197 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 3: the needle even more so. 198 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:18,720 Speaker 1: Another thing that could that's definitely important is that the 199 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:23,240 Speaker 1: governments need to make sure they're enablers, they're not making 200 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 1: additional constraints for businesses, because there is a mentality even 201 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 1: in my own country in Kenya that sometimes it's so 202 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 1: hard for people to get their businesses up, businesses running, 203 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:35,480 Speaker 1: it's so hard for them to access financing. Then after 204 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:38,199 Speaker 1: all that, many times they don't feel that the government 205 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:41,200 Speaker 1: is their friend because you finally get your business running, 206 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:43,680 Speaker 1: then taxes are being added on it. Then there's other 207 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 1: charges that are coming your way that make you have 208 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 1: to stop the business or lay off people. So I 209 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:51,720 Speaker 1: think governments also need to acknowledge that a lot of 210 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 1: these jobs are going to be created by the private 211 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 1: sector and businesses, and they need to make an environment 212 00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:00,200 Speaker 1: that forced us their growth so that they don't they 213 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:02,199 Speaker 1: don't hamstring them even just when they're at the stage 214 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 1: where they're trying to start up. 215 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:07,560 Speaker 3: And you have a young daughter yourself, just talking about family, 216 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:11,200 Speaker 3: have you thought about whether or not, you know, you'd 217 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:15,679 Speaker 3: encourage her to build a career in Nairobi or anywhere 218 00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:18,200 Speaker 3: on the continent or what at all? 219 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:20,400 Speaker 2: Have you thought about sort of her future? 220 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:24,080 Speaker 1: Great, So my daughter is four, so I would say 221 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:26,599 Speaker 1: I've not yet thought of her future career processs. But 222 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:31,319 Speaker 1: what I would what I want is this. Sudan is 223 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:34,880 Speaker 1: probably mentioned in the article which says we wish two 224 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 1: things for our children. One is roots and the other 225 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:40,360 Speaker 1: is wings. So that's what I really hope for her. 226 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 1: I wish for her a world where she has her roots. 227 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 1: Her roots arend the African continent, but she also has 228 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 1: wings that will allow her to fly. But I also 229 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 1: hope that when it comes to the time of when 230 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:54,800 Speaker 1: she's going to high school, university, or making future decisions, 231 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:57,960 Speaker 1: I hope that if she's moving, it's because she wants to, 232 00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 1: not because she's supposed to. On the lower level, they 233 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:05,000 Speaker 1: are people who are getting into boats and crossing the Mediterranean, 234 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:08,440 Speaker 1: risking their life just because things are so dire that 235 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:10,920 Speaker 1: they're not working for them that they'd rather take the 236 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 1: chance of drowning than watching themselves and their families like 237 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 1: just staff today. And that's how dire the situation is 238 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:23,199 Speaker 1: that for most people it's a question of survival, not 239 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:25,839 Speaker 1: just this I have this option and this other option 240 00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:29,160 Speaker 1: is better. But for many people it's really migration. Right now, 241 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:32,360 Speaker 1: it seems to be their only opportunity for them to 242 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:34,959 Speaker 1: put food on the table or to even enhance their lives. 243 00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 1: And I don't want that to be the future that 244 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:38,320 Speaker 1: my daughter grows up in. 245 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:41,839 Speaker 3: Hiku Ka Maria, thank you so much for joining us, 246 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:45,199 Speaker 3: and you can of course read she Could's piece on Bloomberg. 247 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:49,920 Speaker 3: It is available right now. Here's a few other stories 248 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:54,720 Speaker 3: we're watching in the region. This week, Ghana's inflation jumped 249 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:58,000 Speaker 3: to a six month high at twenty three percent ahead 250 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:02,280 Speaker 3: of the countries December seventh percentsidential elections. The cost of 251 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:05,000 Speaker 3: living crisis will be a factor in the elections, with 252 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:09,239 Speaker 3: voters angry with the government's handling of the economy expected 253 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:13,040 Speaker 3: to result in opposition candidate John Mohamma being. 254 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:15,640 Speaker 2: Elected the next leader of the West African. 255 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 3: Nation, and South Africa risks missing its twenty twenty four 256 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:24,960 Speaker 3: economic growth forecast after the agricultural sector's deepest slump in 257 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:28,719 Speaker 3: at least three decades led to an unexpected contraction in 258 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:33,280 Speaker 3: the third quarter. The quarterly decline meant gross domestic product 259 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:35,959 Speaker 3: expanded a meager four tenths of a percent in the 260 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:40,360 Speaker 3: nine months through September. Data published by Statistics South Africa 261 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:44,720 Speaker 3: on Tuesday shows that suggests the National Treasury and the 262 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 3: South African Reserve Banks twenty twenty four. 263 00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 2: Growth estimates of one point one percent. 264 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 3: Will likely prove overly optimistic, and you can follow these 265 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 3: stories across Bloomberg, including the Next African Newsletter where we 266 00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:01,440 Speaker 3: will have coverage of the Ganayan elections. Will put a 267 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:09,600 Speaker 3: link to that in the show notes. This program was 268 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:13,840 Speaker 3: produced by Adrian Bradley. Don't forget to follow and review 269 00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:16,640 Speaker 3: this show wherever you usually get your podcasts. 270 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 2: I'm Jennifer's Abasaja. Thanks for listening.